THC 49: Mike Bara | Ancient Aliens On The Moon

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01:44 Hello again, Hireside Chatters. Drinking my drink, smoking my smoke from San Diego you know me I'm Greg Carlwood thank you all for being here with me for another episode of My Stupid Stoner Show Folks we spend a lot of time exploring the strange mysterious and oftentimes just plain criminal aspects of the wild world upon which we live but today we're going to take our minds a bit further than usual about 239 thousand miles further to be exact with the rock in the sky we call The Moon While our school books and culture have written it off as a dead, lifeless chunk of boring. Our guest today Mike Barra wrote a book Ancient Aliens on the Moon and anyone who takes a closer look at this thing will see an anomalous mysterious celestial body that seems critical to experiencing life as we know it And Mike Barra has done the looking for us in that new book. Mike welcome to THC Hey thanks alot

02:33 Well, let's start off by talking a bit about the Moon in general because I believe our Moon has several odd and unique characteristics that make it stand out. Can you tell us about some of those features? Yeah! In the context of the moon's placements location its size it's really very unusual there really isn't any celestial body anywhere that's ever been observed in this solar system or even these extrasolar planets are now finding another solar systems that can match up to it in terms of strangeness. It actually, one of the weirdest things is that the famous science fiction author Asik Asimov wrote that you know he discovered that essentially the moon doesn't orbit the earth and actually orbits the sun but in a tidal lock relationship with the earth. In other words the moon is actually always falling towards the Sun its just sort of orbiting the Earth almost

03:26 almost by habit and there's no other satellite in the solar system that has that characteristic. So, that makes it really unique. There is also the fact that its exactly 2160 miles in diameter and that may not seem like its very important to people but the truth is it's not 2161, it's not 2159, it's exactly 2160 miles and that number Reappears in different forms of astrology and other strange sort of numerological context. For instance, every person everything would go through the processionary cycle but 25920 years cycle of one full procession of the Earth's axis.

04:06 it's broken down into astrological ages and those ages are exactly 2,160 years apart. Now no one can quite agree when the age of Pisces ends and when the Age of Aquarius begins but they're all 2160 years so that number reappears we covered this a little bit more in my first book which was Dark Mission The Secret History Of NASA that I wrote with Richard C. Hoagland, we talked a little bit more about all this weird numerology but you take that exact diameter and that exact distance that the moon is from the earth and it allows you to create something called a total solar eclipse which is where the disk of the moon under certain ideal conditions

04:46 perfectly blots out the disk of the Sun. And that is just something that doesn't occur by coincidence, I mean you start to look at these things and say to yourself this begins to look like kind of a designer solar system like somebody set this all up because you put together all these numeric coincidences and they just can't happen randomly there's not sort of random cycles or something actually driving all this stuff And then of course that goes back to the bigger question of whether the moon's a natural satellite or an artificial satellite, which is one of the big arguments that has been going on in the UFO community for years and years. Right! I mean, that was gonna be one my questions later but let's just talk about it. How do you feel about that considering the research you've done? Well yeah, researching ancient aliens on the moon what i discovered is there are really three major theories over the years to account for the moons

05:39 Formation one of them is that it was a spin off or fish and off from the Earth, that somehow the spin energy of the Earth spun a clump of this planet off. And it was originally thought that it would be basically you could account for that in the Pacific base on the deep. deep Pacific basin, but I don't think there's quite enough material there to add up to what the moon you know to the mass that the moon has. The other theory is the accretion theory which um i talk about in my second book The Choice and I talk about it again in Ancient Aliens on the Moon which is the idea that planets just sort of form

06:15 next to each other and in these positions, and then they sort of ram into each other. And instead of breaking each other apart they sort of magically glue themselves together and get bigger and bigger. Then they pick up dust and debris from the nebular disk and form planets. There's a whole bunch of reasons why that doesn't work. The foremost among them being that if that was really the way planets formed there'd be no reason for them all to be in the same orbital plane which they are. And then the third theory, which has been the most popular one until recently is the big whack theory where they say something about the size of Mars smacked into the Earth and broke a bunch of stuff off and under certain computer models you know you get computer models to show you anything if you want them too it then somehow stabilizes in orbit around the earth informs the moon

07:03 The problem with that is that they just recently did some studies on the oxygen isotopes, isotopic ratios of titanium brought back from the Moon and they found out that it's exactly the same as the Earth. And what that means is, is that the Moon is undeniably made from the Earth if there was another foreign object that hit the earth it would have had a different isotopic ratio and the result would have been that you would see a mixture of these two bodies, and you don't see that. So that theory is out the window! And um...the one I favor is-is the spin energy one where it was basically spun off from the Earth when the Earth was in more molten state. There's a few questions about that some people arguing that doesn't really work because how

07:46 how the angular momentum adds up, which is basically just the spin energy of the two bodies. But I think we can get around that and um...and the other part is that the Moon is essentially made what's called a light mantle material of the Earth in other words it's its made love the stuff thats at the outer sections, the outer core uh.. the outer part of the earth rather than the inner parts of the earth and that's why it's got much less mass on the Earth and doesn't have very big If it had formed separately, it would have had a more dense nickel-iron core most likely. So all these things to me added up to the fact that I think that this solar fission theory of planetary formation and then subsequently the moon fission theory is the one that makes the most sense. Now the interesting part that you really get into a little bit later is obviously after that somebody's come along

08:40 and made their own, I don't know, upgrades? Modifications to the Moon because there's a lot of weird stuff on the...I guess I want to call it a planet. Because even Isaac Asimov called our system a double planet not a double planet system that would be a solar system with two planets but basically it's a matching pair of planets orbiting mutually orbiting the Sun and that's what makes the Earth-Moon System again absolutely the weirdest arrangement the weirdest arrangement in in the universe as far as we know and It kind of makes you think that somebody planned it that way. Well, that's the thing I mean if you think that the moon came from the earth somehow It seems really tough to place that intelligently

09:27 Well, yeah. You can't but that doesn't mean somebody didn't come along later and adjust it and tweak it and create the ideal conditions for instance for life to form on the Earth because there's a lot of things that the Moon does in terms of… regulating the spin energy of the Earth, regulating the... in other words, the Earth would spin a lot faster if the Moon didn't exist. It's to some extent stimulates the magnetic field of the Earth and that's not a conventionally accepted theory but it works out in this theory of hyperdimensional physics that Richard C. Hoagland and Errol Torin developed years and years ago which I do subscribe

10:06 And so it does a lot of things without the Moon. Literally, life on Earth as we know it could not exist. So it's invaluable to us and it does seem to me in looking at it that there is evidence that somebody has been inhabiting the Moon and doing major modification work on it over the millennia. They would certainly have been in a position to do these things and maybe even move it where needed to be Well, it's interesting because it does seem like something that's necessary for life here on the planet. It is! Yeah absolutely But are there not legends and you know like the Dogon tribe don't they have a legend about a time before the moon? Aren't their ancient writings to talk about a time before the moon? Yeah there are some and there's the idea that

10:53 The Egyptians came up with where they talk about the five days out of time, which is the extra five days added to the end of the year. We should have a 360 day year and the reason it's 365 and some change is I think because some very bad very cataclysmic stuff happened in the solar system maybe not as long ago as some people think, maybe a lot more recently than some people think. And their legend is that the five extra days had something to do with the Moon being brought into place and placed here but again it's hard to reconcile that with what's now adding up to the scientific evidence which is that the Moon essentially came from the Earth

11:38 And that's just one I have a hard time reconciling those ancient legends with. Although, not that I don't have respect for those... Right But maybe misinterpretations and again, I don't know enough about the Dogon legends. I know some of the other legends and I covered a few of them in Ancient Aliens on The Moon but what I can tell you is that I think the original moon came from the Earth it's basically part of the Earth. And that would make it probably on the order of four and a half billion years old because I think a lot of this stuff happened back in very early formation period at solar system

12:16 It is an interesting celestial body. And I mean, doesn't the moon one of the only things that doesn't spin? Well no it actually does spin. Yeah because it always keeps the same face to the earth people sometimes think it doesn't spin but in fact what it does is spins in a synchronous relationship with the earth. In other words the Earth's gravitational influence is sufficient that its in what's called a tidal lock situation with the moon and the result of that is that while it rotates, the Earth rotates once every 24 hours. The Moon rotates once every 27 days give or take and that is why it keeps one face to the earth at all times so yeah does it does rotate in and actually its really interesting because next book I'm going to do this year is gonna be called Ancient Aliens on Mars and one other things we're gonna discuss there's the fact that mars has

13:06 tidal bulges which are endemic of this tidal lock relationship and what that means is the Mars isn't a planet at all it's actually the moon another much larger planet that doesn't exist anymore and you can prove that absolutely by the fact that has these two tidal bulges exactly 180 degrees apart, just as the Moon does and just as the Earth does. I mean, the Moon's gravity makes the Earth bulge a little bit at the equator and likewise the Moon is more solid rocky so it doesn't bulge quite as much but definitely that... That's interesting! Yeah it really is and that's one of the things I'm going to get into in more depth

13:42 I've ever gotten into before in the next book, which you know God knows what? I'm gonna have a chance to write it well there's so many people talking about like like so many old legends especially when you get into the ancient alien stuff and The conspiracy world in general about a planet X about right visitors from a planet and some weird elliptical orbit. I mean that was a big part of the 2012 thing people thought was gonna happen. And I mean you look at the asteroid belt and that looks like a destroyed planet of some type Yeah, and that's you know...I remember opening a book it was like a picture book and i think i must have been in third or fourth grade of the solar system and and I looked and there is you know every you know planets are all basically about

14:22 about two times farther from the Sun than the previous planet. You know, Mercury's one you know a certain distance and then twice as far away as Venus and twice as far away from that is the Earth and twice as far away from that roughly is Mars although Mars has a really elliptical orbit And then you have the asteroid belt Then you have Jupiter I soon as I saw it I went well Oh there used to be a planet there but it blew up you know? And that was a prevailing theory but But basically traditional science has worked very, very hard to shoot that theory down. you know, fairly recently with a physicist or astronomer named Dr. Tom Van Flandern, the late unfortunately Dr. Tom Van Flandern who reawakened this idea and came up with what he called the exploded planet hypothesis which actually talks about two planets one in the orbit roughly where Mars is and one where the asteroid belt is that exploded. And actually there's now observations of what they're calling super-Earths

15:23 rocky terrestrial planets like the Earth. but which form in orbits deeper, like around where Mars or where the asteroid belt would be in our solar system and tend to be about five times as massive. And guess what? Also tends to be more unstable meaning that they can spontaneously combust! Wow So really I mean this is again This is what I'm going to talk about More in the Mars book Is that you know I really think Tom Van Flander has it correct and he's got a lot of evidence To back it up He talks about The origins of comets and asteroids and there's really no difference between them. And he just basically challenges a lot of the things that NASA has put forth, and one of the things he did is he mapped

16:04 the orbits of all of the comets, all the short period comets that have been observed. And basically they all go back... They all point back if you take their orbits and extrapolate them backwards in time they all point back to an orbit where the asteroid belt is now or where Mars is now roughly on the order of about two to three million years ago meaning that it could be well sorry one of them 65 million years ago and one of them's about 2-3 million years ago so That's pretty hard to argue with. 65 million years, that was when the dinosaurs were apparently… Yeah and I think unfortunately this stuff is not really so much an ancient alien on the moon as it would be in ancient aliens on Mars but yeah, I think that's what killed the dinosaurs and if you buy into there was debris from these planets

16:54 basically it hit Venus. If you look at Venus, there's this deep gash that runs all along about two-thirds of the surface of Venus and what clearly happened is that something hit Venus at a kind of an oblique angle and scarred all the way around the planet as it rotated and in fact I think it made Venus spin backwards it hit so hard because Venus is the only planet that kinda spins anti-clockwise, I don't remember which way the planets all spin but spins the opposite of all the other planets in the solar system. And because I think that what used to happen used to be and where the solar system used to be set up was that there were three Earths there wasn't inner earth an outer earth in a middle Earth and I think the inner earth with Venus the outer earth was Mars which is actually a moon on this other planet and the Middle Earth the only one left is this one

17:45 And what would have happened under circumstances like that, would be that the oceans that Venus had would have been instantly vaporized. It would've created this massive cloud cover and the resultant volcanic activity would have then put all the sulfur into the air and basically made Venus you know, in unlivable hell. It also would have in the exploded planet hypothesis knocked probably any moons that might have been orbiting Venus out of orbit because according to that hypothesis, the smaller planets like the Earth and Venus should have one fairly large moon and the bigger planets, the gas giants should have multiple smaller moons. And in fact I think Mercury is also an escape moon of Venus. I think that Venus and Earth

18:28 the moon and Mercury were a twin pair system because that's kind of the basis of what I'm fat Flanders theory is so we're little off topic of It's all relate you know it's all related So right now in my mind what killed the dinosaurs was probably multiple impacts from the debris from the 65 million year ago explosion and And you know, what happens then is that in the bigger context of the hyperdimensional physics. The idea that the solar system is a system and all of the planets through their spin energy are actually pushing themselves and interacting with each other on these higher planes and having physical effects here in 3D. And the result of all that would be losing two members of the solar system, losing their spin energy would mean that life

19:21 would get smaller because there would be less energy in the overall system, therefore less energy for life. And that may be why we saw the disappearance of the dinosaurs and the emergence of mammals. Let's face it people are not as big as dinosaurs so I think it just implies that maybe a different... The idea is that there's a different physics operating than solar system now then there was 65 million years ago because there's two planets that aren't here generating energy anymore. So that's a little bit more back on my second book out of my second book the choice, but It's all interesting. I mean, let's to bring this back to the moon a little bit with ancient aliens A lot of the things people point to as evidence that there were once an advanced civilization Here is the ruins you know The kind of things that are out there the giant stone structures that we just couldn't even build today Yeah That's usually what people look at but those exist on the moon do they not yeah They do and the thing is to me it's like why? Why sit here and argue you know about

20:21 about whether the ancients could have built the pyramids or not, when all you have to do is figure that look if there were ancient aliens they wouldn't just been on Earth. They would've visited other planets in the solar system and other places and if you go there and find pyramids on the Moon or you find artificial structures on the Moon around Mars then you pretty much proven the ancient aliens hypothesis and there can be any argument because according to The Other Side These other places were never inhabited by any advanced civilizations. So therefore, basically to me it's an ace in the hole and that's why I'm more fascinated by ancient aliens on the Moon than ancient aliens on Mars just as two places because there are other places in the solar system we can look at too

21:07 That's why I'm more interested in it because to me, once you find evidence of it... ...you know the game is over and you can't argue that well, you know the ancients may have really had this advanced knowledge and new mathematics and somehow learned from some osmosis process or something. So by definition then you have ancient alien civilizations unless, unless of course this stuff that we see on the Moon and stuff that we see on Mars is actually part of an Atlantean civilization, you know some earlier highly advanced human civilization that once thrived. And I think actually especially on the moon I think that's what some of what we're looking at is because the architecture looks human it uses the same engineering principles and unless those principles are necessarily universal which they could be It's just weird that some of the artistic aspects of it to me

22:03 Look like our stuff and they're definitely in ruins, and they're definitely very old so they can't be you know They can't be some of you know John Lear talks about active bases on the moon Which then there may very well be that are ours that are secret stuff But because of the fact that their agent in their own ruins Then they really can't be accounted for through modern activity. So I It's, you know... Let's talk about the details of some of that stuff because your book that's the main focus. You show things like the Shard and the Tower and the Ukurt Crater, kind of anomalous things. What do you think is some of the more important aspects?

22:43 Well, there's different places on the moon where there is evidence of different types of structures. And what you see is really I guess I'd classify them as three different kinds of things that I talk about in the book which is you've got these towering transparent or semi-transparent glass structures like a scaffolding that is built over the surface of the moon. And a lot of evidence for that is in the Sinus Meta E region and Oceanus Proselyrum, and also in Mare Ecclesiam which are specific chapters that I go into in the book. And that is, I believe built as a meteor shield because people think well glass is fragile. Well glass is not fragile if it doesn't have moisture in it. It's the moisture that you can't get out of the glass when you form on on the earth that makes it fragile to a baseball going through through the bedroom window kind of situation whereas glass and vacuum is not gonna have any moister in its in at all

23:42 in a vacuum it's going to be twice as strong steel so it's the perfect material because its so lightweight, to build almost like a pretend atmosphere over the moon itself and I think there is really clear evidence of that that I show on the book. And one other thing too I wanted to point out You know, you lose a lot of resolution in print. There's just no way around it and what I want to let people know is they do have on our website it's mikebara with one R, MikeBara.blogspot.com and on there if you go the photos tab there's a link to a Picasa web album where I have all the pictures from the book in full resolution so people can see in much better detail what I'm showing them because I know not everybody necessarily can

24:24 you know, see the things I'm pointing out just because you lose some definition sometimes in the printing process. But so you got these towering sort of glass structures which i think is the overarching thing that kind of goes over it almost acts like an atmosphere protects protected the moon at one time the way the atmosphere of the earth protects us from meteors although as we saw on Russia last week doesn't protect us a hundred percent does it? And those are in certain places there's still a lot of that stuff left and it's still very solid and structural. And you see examples like the shard in the tower, which are much lower to the surface between 1 and 7 miles high as opposed to some of this stuff which is upwards of 20 miles high

25:06 And there's other places where it's been beaten and battered, and it's basically like cigarette ash or something. It's just very easy to sort of pass through when there are places where there is not even any coverage anymore. In one of the areas in Maury Crisium, I show some stuff like for instance there's a couple of craters that appear to have sort of the watch crystal standard glass dome over top them. They're craters that just have had these glass domes and then there are other craters in the area that look like they used to have these domes sort of this pie-shaped kind of wedge shaped glass dome structures that have been shattered and broken down or kinda bent over

25:48 And then even below that, then you see on the surface of the Moon in areas like the rim of the crater Copernicus and the rims of the crater Kepler. Even inside of Tycho, you see evidence of just straight up architecture. You see roads, overpasses bridges, there's huge mechanical drills and things that are drilling to the side of mountains that have these long stems or tubes. It looks like a big pipeline running for miles and miles along the lunar surface I even found in one image

26:24 what I think is unmistakably looks like a flying saucer, big flying saucer in what is clearly a carved out hanger on the side of a mountain. And it's just an extraordinary image and you know so you've got all these different sets of structures and things and you know it does have to say all that look like its ruins there are other places where we can actually see that there are holes punched into the surface underneath those holes interlocking piping and tubing, and you can see substructure. You can actually see stuff that's at geometric angles and right angles. I mean it looks like the old sci-fi movie Forbidden Planet. It looks like the Krell ruins underground are still operating so there is just extraordinary stuff if you really begin to study

27:13 The images of the moon, the ones that haven't been tampered with. And unfortunately there are quite a few that have been tampered with but they you know there's so much stuff on these images that I think it's just impossible for them to to have accounted for all of it and in some cases I think that that they don't mind us finding some of this stuff It's part of it is that that the only things are really gonna Put the clamps down on and really go out of their way to cover up is the really really obvious Smoking gun stuff that people have brought up in the public forums. So I was a really long answer to it Well, yeah, I mean clearly NASA has to know this. I mean if you're able to see some things

27:52 Clearly, they have to have a pretty good idea and you know we're supposedly we've been there before I mean There's a lot of theories about the moon landing that it didn't happen That was faked by Stanley Kubrick that it was they were tailed and closely watched by aliens While they were on their journey. And of course both can't be true They can't have been followed by UFOs and not gone So I mean clearly you think we've gone but what's the Mike Barrow analysis of the 1969 Moon Landing? Well, we went. There's no question in my mind that we went I think one of the best arguments just to be made on a superficial basis is if you're gonna fake it why would we fake it nine times? We went to the moon nine times so why would we fake that? Why not just take it once or twice and then shut the thing down The reality is that we did go and were successful in landing six times at twelve astronauts on the surface And I think they actually brought some technology and artifacts that they found back with them

28:46 The arguments that we didn't go are very weak. They're made by people with not a lot of engineering experience or practical knowledge as I study them over the years, they've all fallen apart and it's funny because if you go to my first book that I wrote with Richard Hoagland dark mission what we discuss in there is his firsthand observation that the people who actually started that rumor that we never went Even before Neil and Buzz and Michael Collins splashed down on their way back from Apollo 11 in 1969, the people who started this rumor way back in 69 who first put it out into the ether you know put into the system was NASA itself.

29:27 There was a specific incident where the JPL press director was personally escorting this crazy guy around JPL and helping him hand out leaflets that said that the whole thing was faked. at a TV, you know on a stage in Nevada and that we never went to the moon. And NASA was helping this guy get his message to all of the different media outlets that were there to cover the splashdown and recovery of the astronauts from Apollo 11. I think they reason they did that is because what they were doing was covering stuff up. What they were covering up was the real reasons why they went, what they really looking for and what they really found

30:09 And what they wanted to do was to create a meme, you know sort of a cultural meme. Put it out there so that would be easily discreditable which I think this one is So that whenever anybody mentions NASA in conspiracy they'd go oh yeah like the nutty thing we never went. You know i think it was like cover story to cover what they were really doing and you know I did talk about in the Apollo 17 chapter I did talk about the fact that they did things There's a really interesting formation called Nansen, which looks like sort of a V-shaped entrance into essentially a gigantic hexagonal quote mountain on the moon. Which I don't think is a mountain at all.

30:53 very heavily damaged and they actually on the second day of the Apollo 17 mission, they drove right up to this entrance parked right above it. And then the astronauts step off camera and they're off camera for about 30 minutes while the camera just pans aimlessly around them like what were they doing? Right at this thing that looks like an entrance and there's astronauts who say these very cryptic things like you know I just want you guys back in control to know that we haven't really had a chance Then you've seen and I'm sitting there saying to myself, well we haven't seen anything. So what were they doing there? And just again you put together their statements and it's really obvious that the mission was something other than what...

31:38 than what we've been told. All the missions had different functions, but you know like Apollo 11 I think was purely symbolic it was get to the moon land out in the middle of nowhere where there were no glass ruins to run into and perform Buzz Aldrin's Masonic Ceremony and get the hell back safe and sound i think that would be the plan That was another one of my questions. The Masonic ceremony is really strange Before we go off on that, I want to say one other thing you also asked me about and i don't mean to just completely dominate here so much stuff I want to get out but um One the other things I wanted tell you is that the story about them being followed by UFOs and stuff people don't... it's really weird I have to write books because It's like I need to remind people of things in context they tend to forget

32:24 Buzz Aldrin was on a TV program about five, six years ago. It was a British produced program if the name escapes me at the moment but he flat out said and we talked about this in Dark Mission flat-out said they were followed for at least one period of time by what he described as basically a UFO He clearly said it could not be accounted for it was not the third stage it was not any part of their mission it was something else that was following them for awhile and then there's the rumor that when they landed Neil Armstrong called in And said there's three of them on the rim of a crater and they're watching us and they're really huge and it's really kind of scary now. That supposedly happened right after he said, you know, tranquility base for the eagle is landed and people say oh well that never happened then there's no proof of it but what I can tell you this?

33:09 They did have a private channel where they could talk to their doctors, okay? And at any time any of the astronauts could go to a private channel. Talk directly to their doctors and tell them anything that might be going on with them personally. At least that was the idea you could also of course transmit any other kind of information through For instance, there's UFOs. There are flying saucers on the crater right in front of us! What the hell do you want us to do? Could you please go ask the guys at Mission Control... could you please get up from your desk and go ask what is his name Gene Kranz what we're supposed to do about this?" And the thing I will tell you about that story is that there's no recording of this, there's no real credibility to it except for this. I have a friend named Ken Johnston Jr who worked at NASA through the 60s into the 70s

33:54 And he's told me that that rumor was spreading around NASA, all the way through the halls at NASA within about 30 or 40 minutes of the moon landing. In other words people were talking about other people had heard this and we're repeating the story So, to me that gives it kind of an interesting credibility. Either it's another false rumor that NASA wanted to be spread around but the fact that it was being openly talked about within the hallowed halls of NASA indicates to me that story might actually be true Man, there's no question. We have massive disinformation usually coming from the sources that you go to for your actual information It puts us in a odd predicament in a weird place, but there is another documentary out there I've seen where they talk about

34:39 the code word for UFOs was Santa Claus. I don't know if you're familiar with this at all, but there is some audio of them saying we have a Santa Claus at like six o'clock or whatever... Sure yeah and i think that actual line something along the lines of please pass the word that there is a Santa Claus and it makes it's clearly a code transmission. There are other code transmissions where they talk about going over to the hotel and things like that! You're like what the hell are they talking about? So, you know there were classified projects that the guys did operate. I mean like on Apollo 17 there was this classified project called Chapel Bell which nobody really knows what it was and it's still classified 30 or 45 years later whatever it is and...

35:27 And so there could be references to actual Defense Department stuff that they had to be doing. But yeah, I mean the Santa Claus story is absolutely true and again if you read through the actual transcripts of what some other dialogue was it gets pretty weird pretty fast on almost all missions Lewis and I've vaguely heard about the stories of there actually being aliens on the moon when they landed, but are there any other times where you've heard that? Are there any legs to that rumor? Miller There's no legs to that that I've ever been able to find. They actually had any sort of face-to-face encounters. But again, they go back and say we were warned off. Well if we were warned off why did we land five more times after Apollo 11? It's kind of like getting in their faces about it!

36:12 But there's just too many weird things that went on with the space program. You know, Apollo 13 being unlucky... There is an explosion on the ship It launches... Get this? The launch... Do you know what the time of the launch of Apollo 13 was? It was 1313 That's 24 hour clock timing of exact moment at a launch I mean it's crazy stuff that if you look all the symbolism and coincidences, they just can't be random. They appear to be some sort of pattern and that's really what I talk about in Dark Mission. I talk less about the conspiracy stuff more about just the structures and the artifacts and ancient aliens on the moon but yeah those patterns exist everywhere you know people call them synchronicities

36:59 And I actually gave Dark Mission to my father as a Christmas present, a couple of years ago. I didn't get to read it myself but he really liked it and you know... He was telling me about some of that stuff But what are like the dark missions? Of course or apparently the veiled missions for why we're really doing the things that NASA is doing and you lay out even in this book Some of the Apollo missions and you know what their dark mission What you suggest it might be What is all that? Like why did, why does NASA have so many occult-ish type ideas. Why do they do things in such patterns? Well the thing is that what we wrote about in Dark Mission was that NASA if you look at it was essentially run by three different secret societies open secret societies

37:47 One was the Freemasons, the Scottish Rite Freemasons of 33rd degree. I mean basically most of the astronauts at least the important ones that walked on the surface of the moon were not only members of the Freemasons they were 32nd or 33rd degree but they were also members of the same lodge so that would be as if let's say...I forget the exact number but lets say 6 out of 12 guys who walked on the moon if they all Mormons and attended the same Mormon church And you found out later they performed a Mormon ceremony in the lunar module. That would be a little weird, you know? So people would not have a problem with that because that would somehow acceptable but when we start talking about the Freemasons all of sudden it's something you can't really talk about but they seem to be in charge there was also obviously the Nazi faction which is the Wernher von Braun and Kurt Debusse and people who ran everything at the rocketry programs were all Nazis

38:40 And then you look at JPL, which is the unmanned space probe factory basically for NASA that runs all these missions to Mars. The origins of JPL were the guys who formed JPL essentially were all involved in various occult practices associated with people like Alistair Cooper Crowley, L. Ron Hubbard of the Church of Scientology and all sorts of very off-the-wall black magic cults and when you get into their belief systems at the core of all three organizations. Their core belief system is that we are descended from gods who came from another planet and very specifically they all believe that those gods were the Egyptian gods Isis, Osiris, Horus and Seth. And if you look at the symbolism in NASA right down to the Apollo mission patch, the original Apollo program patch

39:37 having the constellation of Orion on it, which in the ancient Egyptian religion represented Osiris who was the top god. It all just adds up and you start looking at different things like the Apollo 16 landing, the lunar module was named Orion therefore it was basically named after this Egyptian God Osiris. It landed on the Moon on April 20th 1972 which happens to be Adolf Hitler's birthday. 420 and at exactly that yeah, you guys would know about it And at exactly the moment that they landed the three belt stars of Orion in other words the main feature

40:17 you know, the main identifier of Orion. The three belt stars were right at 33 degrees above that specific landing site and only that landing site on the surface of the moon at that time in other words You basically had an homage to the Nazis To the Freemasons and to the JPL crowd all right there, all of it sort of under this one veil. And those kinds of things are just too weird for me to ignore and they just repeat over and over again in these different missions. So you have this really strange organization which appears to be almost more religion-based but it's an occulted religion, an ancient religion and I think that they believed that they had to do these things when the stars were in the correct positions in order for their endeavors to be blessed by the gods. And that's quite honestly quite flatly what I think the very top people at NASA were trying to

41:18 with all the timing of these launches and all these dates and the landings, they were definitely trying to be in accordance with and respectful to you know the belief systems that they were handed down from their gods. It's it's really hard to convince people that we're not crazy the guys that ran NASA are and To a great extent they still are so because even they still do these ritual things I mean all over the conspiracy world among the elites and everything you have these type of weird rituals And I'd have a hard time wrapping my head around if it's like a superstition to them or if it really does release some type of Ethereal energy, or something. I think it's both. I think it's actually both

42:03 Yeah, and then if you think it's it does release some type of energy then that's odd. You know we don't have in the mainstream There's no acceptance of that whatsoever right right? But again as you dig into the hyperdimensional physics theory at all all these numbers and all these coincidences and all these things do add up because when stars and planets are aligned in certain situations you're going to get more favorable energies or you're going to be able to use this sort of secret science that the ancients, you may have learned from the ancient gods of Egypt, let's say. That would tell you that if you go to the moon at this time and look at the configuration of the solar system there aren't going to be any solar flares, the sun will be very quiet...that kind of thing. That would be an ostentatious time try to take a journey to the moon So I think that all these things are factored in In my second book, The Choice, and to a lesser extent in Ancient Aliens on the Moon, I also discuss Wernher von Braun

43:03 how he really discovered, you know navigation and it was all related to these this sort of unacknowledged theory of what Hoagland calls hyperdimensional physics which I do concur with that basically if you spin something you get more energy out of the system and it took them a long time to account for that in figuring out how they could get their spacecraft actually be able to rendezvous with each other or for that matter even even get to the moon because It definitely seems to be like there was a learning curve at NASA through the years and they finally figured this out. Now I think it's all sort of just built into the equations, they all... now I think that without anybody at the lower levels knowing what they're doing, they basically plug in a computer program and say okay when do we go to Mars? Well okay this is the perfect time to go. Yeah, they don't even question it No! And the guys down below have no idea why their decisions being made for that date or that time

44:01 Command decision made at the top level and those are the only guys that really need to know the top five or six guys Are really it? Yeah, let me ask you this because as someone who's skeptical of pretty much any big story that You know spikes up in the media for a while like yeah I'm very skeptical that's a couple years ago Nash that crashed something into the moon Which is a bit of an odd story for me It didn't really have much of an official story or explanation or reason. What do you think was the reason behind that? Oh Well, I think what... well you know again the reason behind it may have been what they actually claimed it was. It may have been that they were actually trying to kick up a plume of dust and water hopefully ice and analyze it and find that it had water where they hit it though? Where did they actually launch the thing? And this is this is actually when I end Ancient Aliens on the Moon with. This is like last in the book

44:59 where they actually sent it into appears to be an area where there are again these big splits in the surface, in the lunar surface and if you can look at NASA's own enhancements then you can see these geometric cross beams and substructures under the surface. And what happened was that the object, this spacecraft Went into it and just disappeared they expected as clone but they didn't get a plume or at least the guys that believed it was a real experiment that this is really the experiment didn't get a plume. And um, and it was like throwing a rock into mud you don't get anything spinning up you know spitting out of the air it just goes in and disappears

45:39 And when they enhanced it, you can see where they're pointing to something that might be the plume but it's nowhere near what they expected. You can see that just went right into this hollow empty part of the Moon that has all these cross beams and structures inside of it and I think it might have been that they were actually looking for a location where there was more intact artificial structures because along the limbs and in some of the higher latitudes is more likely where the new stuff, the best stuff is going to have been because it probably would have taken less impact from meteors over the years than some of the stuff at the middle of the moon. So you know it's really hard for me to know whether that was an intentional thing that they were really trying to find

46:29 location for artificial structures or whether it was just sort of a happy accident that occurred because the mission. But there's no question that the mission discovered something that it wasn't supposed to discover, which is that you know there are empty spaces in them There's empty spaces with lots of mechanical and architectural looking stuff inside of it. Well, yeah I mean I looked into Phobos a while because there was a lot of weird stuff about that satellite but do you think the moon is hollow? There's a lot of suggestion that both of them are hollow No, I don't think its hollow but I think there is a lot of stuff built up. I think a lot of the surface of the moon we see as actually artificial It has actually been modified, built-up

47:13 and made to kind of look like the surface of a moon, and not really be the surface of a moon. One of the things I talk about in one of the earlier chapters on ancient aliens on the Moon is the area around Copernicus which has a whole bunch a whole bunch of areas like that where there's clearly mechanical stuff. It looks like it has actually been built on top of the natural surface and it is just one of those things where if you look, you can clearly see that there has been modification and the way to tell that is really look for the right angular geometric patterns which are really unusual in nature and there are a lot of different locations I talk about in the book and show

47:56 where you got that. So I think it's a natural satellite that has been heavily, heavily modified but its not hollow. And one of these pictures that I saw that I thought was really interesting because a lot of times I have a hard time knowing what I'm looking at but there is this picture of what they call Data's head that looked pretty much like the head and can tell us the story about that? Yeah That's Apollo 17 after they visited this place called Nansen where they wouldn't let us see what they were doing and they drove away. Because they were on a very tight schedule and they made some statements like, this is one mysterious place. Well yeah if it's you know I don't know why it would be mysterious if it was a bunch of rocks but it was mysterious for reasons they didn't want to talk about. And then interestingly they actually took pictures that from the position that they were at you should have been able to see directly into Nansen and directly underneath this hexagonal quote mountain but nobody has ever seen those pictures there all listed as quote overexposed. I don't how you could do that but give me break.

48:54 But then they drove on to a couple other locations and one of them was a crater called Shorty Crater. And at Shorty Crater, they discovered some orange soil which turned out to be orange because it was heavily oxidized and Gene Schmidt, who was not Jean Schmitt. Gene Cernan and Harrison Schmidt. Harrison Schmidt got away from the rover went around to the criminal radar and he said you know the outside of Shorty is really boring but inside lordy lordy lordy look at that right? And you look at it and superficially it just looks like a crater with rocks in it right? But Schmidt took a series of shots for a panorama on the entire crater so we took about a dozen

49:33 shots. And as you begin to look at this debris inside the crater, you can see what they're talking about because what I see as a structural mechanical aerospace engineer, I see parts, I see equipment, I see stuff with vents on it and heat sinks and tubing, and exhaust pipes, and clamps, and clevises. And these things are clearly not rocks." Then Richard Hoagland exploded my brain one night in Albuquerque when he said now keep looking here at what doesn't belong. He kept zooming up and zooming up and sure enough there is this head right next to what looks like it could be some sort of broken-up mechanical torso

50:15 And it is for all the world, like you say a head. It's got you know forehead it's got two eye sockets its kind of nose that protrudes...it's got the upper portion of the jaw there's no lower portion on the jaw and on the upper portion in 2 other frames which means that it's not an artifact of the camera or scanner anything else it's in two different frames You can plainly see a bright red stripe on the upper lip of this thing painted-on razor sharp and it's bright and it is reflective, and it looks just like the head of a robot. You know for all intents and purposes if you watch Battlestar Galactica, a Cylon, you know? It looks a little bit like c-3po's head And it's exactly the right size to have been...you know, it's the same size as a human head

51:02 And the only question that I have at this point is, you know did they go down, rappel into Shorty Crater and pick this thing up and bring it back? And if not, I'm sure there was plenty of other stuff that they could have brought back. That would've maybe been sources for...I guess reverse engineering programs or something but again in the context of everything else around it there's no question in my mind that its artificial and then that brings up all kinds of other questions like You know what happened to the civilization was there if you want to go back all the way back was there an advanced human civilization that the hope we talk about. You know the third world of man that were more advanced than we are today did they build a lot of this stuff that we see in the solar system like the face on mars and. And the structures on the moon is it around on the backside of the moon did they build these,

51:51 and use machines? Did their machines get too intelligent, and then was there a war? And is that how the planet you know that Mars orbited got destroyed. I don't know you get into all this other speculation but there's no question in my mind that this thing is real. And I recently put up a couple of YouTube videos just sort of going back over how simple it is to enhance this picture of Data's head these two pictures actually there are four or five different frames And you know, there's people claiming the red stripe is not there that we've fabricated it and it's right there on NASA's own data. NASA's own scan so, you know nonsense So how does something end up?

52:30 on the surface of the moon with paint on it, you know? That's not artificial. Beats me." Yeah that's a great question I mean it all seems so epic and these stories are so wild about aliens coming here and there being giant wars in the sky and potentially wars on the moon... And then you go to your nine-to-five job and you're like oh none of that happened! Well, yeah. But I mean...I'll just tell you that I firmly believe and this is why I write about these subjects that the real history of the human race, the real history of this planet and a lot of things we've been led to believe over the last two or three thousand years

53:10 just playing BS and it's time for us to sort of wake up and face the reality of who we are, where we came from, and embrace our destiny whatever that might be. Amen man! And we are getting kind of close to the end of the hour but you referenced your other book The Choice a little bit From what I know that book seems to be a little bit about December 21st 2012 and being two months out from there Do you think we are in the midst of a new age did that go down the way you expected? Yeah, it did. In fact it basically what's been going on is specifically the stuff that I predicted in the book Which is that a lot, you know alignments of planets and eclipses were gonna create

53:47 changes in our consciousness and political instability. We had an eclipse on December 21st, 2010 precisely two years before the end of the Mayan calendar which I do not consider to be a coincidence again i think this has been arranged the calendar was arranged around it or again this is all calculated then right after that we had you know the Arab uprisings and all the things going on there and I think were in a pattern of shift that I argue in the book is probably going to go on till at least 2023 while we work out a whole bunch of stuff and the things are gonna work out as new political structures, new hierarchical structures of all kinds including religious and new monetary structures. And you know we continue to hear rumors about global currency resets and things that are going on that may sort of create entirely new perspective on money and finance how things are done i mean there's a lot of stuff out there that people

54:42 don't know about the way the financial system really works. That's an understatement! If they did, and you probably know what some of these are... if they were really consciously aware that there would be a revolution so it's um there'd be a lot of people lined up against the wallets but it's not right yet well there's even a George Bush senior quote where he says if the people really knew what we've done they drag us out into streets and lynch us yeah and he says himself but you know he feels so confident because It's all veiled so well. And my last guest, actually—his name is Jacques Fresco—he did a... he's involved in something called the Venus Project which is a resource-based economy

55:22 moneyless society and his theory is that we won't ever get over some of these problems we really have until we get past currency altogether. We need to evolve beyond currency because with it, you know You're in a situation where? You can't really ever trust someone fully who's trying to get money from you And then everybody's trying to get money from you so right it's a system That's very inefficient Well you know i don't know that i agree with that because i think it's a lot to have human ambition other we the truth is if we were all rich and there was no. There is no need to improve yourself or desire to improve your circumstances. Then who's gonna dig the ditches and who's going to do the manual labor and who's gonna be the pet city? You know, it's like I don't think a system like that. I don't think we're ready for a system like that but what needs to happen...I believe in capitalism absolutely! What i don't believe in is central banks, the Federal Reserve, the way of capitalism has been stolen and you know Jesus

56:19 said it 2,000 years ago and really as far as I'm concerned the Bible is a manual of commerce. It's a commercial manual for how you are to deal with your fellow man and we're not supposed to have any debts all our debts were forgiven 2000 years ago And those are our spiritual debts and our financial debts. And people have, we have allowed these banksters which is the popular word to come along and create systems where they convinced us that we were debtors in fact none of us should ever be in debt so I think you can have a monetary system, a system of fair exchange

56:56 Where, you know if I want to make something for $1 and sell it for $2 and you want to buy it. I see nothing wrong with that thats a fair exchange what's happened in our system is there so much fraud in it there's so much defrauding of people going on Thats the problem thats all the courts and banks and corporations and governments agencies many which are actually corporations themselves. That's the thing, do you think that are all conspiring? Well do you think you can keep capitalism intact and keep the structure of a corporation because it seems like The greed and the conniving actions are really built into Capitalism because if it's more profitable to make cheaper food and give people shit food You know you're gonna Do It And I feel like those things Are Built Into The System What but what you have To Have is you have to Have

57:44 The way so the way natural law supposed to work is that you've got God man governments and corporations. And what's happened is, is that corporations and governments have become intertwined and interrelated? And they're working together it used to be that. that government didn't really have much to do except protect the people, which is what it's supposed to do in our country. Then as government grew its power grew they began to extort money out of corporations and then they begin to use the courts which are part of the government to conspire and what you've got now is a situation where you've got the corporations, the governmental corporations, the parts of the government that are not corporations and the court all conspiring to extort money from the people

58:28 And that system has to be broken and the people that broke those, you know common laws and all those things need to be removed. It's going to come as quite a shock to a lot of lawyers that they actually owe their allegiance to the British Crown and not to the United States! And it's gonna be a little shocking for them I think when they all get deported but i think these are things we can look at happening so...I tend to disagree That you're gonna never gonna have a monetary system always gonna have some people at the top of the people at the bottom what needs to be stopped is that cheating and collusion between the greedy and get people in. To these jobs are supposed to be overseeing things and are supposed to be doing things right way to start behaving that way,

59:15 And under the common law system, a judge who illegally assists someone in...illegally assists in … in somebody's property being stolen, for instance mortgage foreclosures – all of which are illegal as far as I'm concerned. According to common law that judge should be hung. He is supposed to get the death penalty and he or she is supposed to get the death penalty. And if one or two of those actually were carried out you'd suddenly find that everybody would be going back to a very strict interpretation of the law. Remember, what we have now are not lawyers. We have attorneys and their job is to attorn or twist the law to be whatever they want it to be in their personal interest. I see continued change for the next 10 years and I don't know how it's going to come out but we do have a choice to make it a better system than the one that we've got – more fair and equitable system for sure

1:00:10 Amen, I mean I do see that one of the big things that sticks out in my mind is people say that in the new age Lies will become more transparent and I think that if you look at the memes they've tried to put out even just since the New Year They get buried very quickly because the alternative story. The true story comes out so quickly and people start picking up on these inconsistencies in the reporting And then they have to bury the story because they're like, okay let's just draw attention away from this now. We wanted it on but now we gotta get it out of here." It kills me that there are lots of people out there that won't believe anything they read on the internet. Oh you can't believe anything you read in the internet! They'll believe everything that they see on TV Everything Anderson Cooper shoves down their throat and I do mean literally in Anderson's case They just suck it down like oh that must be the truth cause I saw it on CNN or something...it's crazy stuff so

1:01:00 You know, remember the age of Pisces which we've been going through astrologically is an age of occultism and what that means simply is that things are hidden. The word apocalypse does not mean cataclysm or the end of the world. It means simply to lift a veil, or reveal that which has been hidden and the act of that apocalypse, that apocalyptic time that we're going through is gonna push us into the enlightened age of Aquarius where we see things for what they really are and we have truth. And you know I think invariably as we move forward in truth things are gonna get better. Amen!

1:01:37 It's about time we wrap this up. It's been a real blast I think people have learned some definitely fascinating things about the moon, and where can people keep up with you? You got any appearances coming out? I really don't have many appearances coming up. I am working on a super secret project which i hope will come to fruition in the fall, well im sure it's going to come to fruition that I really can't talk about. I also hope I can get paid for that at some point. And then I have the new book Ancient Aliens On Mars will be coming out sometime in the fall so probably around October But in the meantime, you can follow my blog postings on my blog which is mikebarra.blogspot.com

1:02:18 I've got a Facebook page. I'm pretty full up with personal friends, and they come at the limit of around 5,000 but I also have an author page which you can search and find if you want to just...I try to parallel post as much as I can. Twitter it's at MikeBara33. And then I've got a YouTube page. Again all that you can find through the blog if you want or just do a Google search just MikeBara B-A-R-A and all that stuff comes up Including some of the people who you know, just want to attack me on a constant and regular basis. But that's okay Yeah, what's that 33 about? Are you atop level Mason? No I'm not but I Just thought I'd mess with people and y'all should see some of my tattoos I've gotten some tattoos deliberately just to mess with peoples brains a little bit but no no I'm not but I wouldn't You know, I wouldn't necessarily object to The joining the Freemasons I've been I've been asked by somebody who's rather famous

1:03:10 in the conspiracy realm that you know I said he could get me in if I want to and I thought about doing it. I mean, I think that at most levels It's a very positive philanthropic organization But it's just at the top levels That you know like all things when you get to the top levels that You know ethics by the way exactly that's where the problems kind of And it is a whole other debate, but I think that in terms of these—whether you're talking about the Catholic Church or whether you're talking about the Freemasons. The actions of the lower members are just a front, just a PR campaign for the real actions going up on top and we can debate if

1:03:51 product an end result of capitalism or if it's something that can be weeded out, but it is kind of the situation we find ourselves in now. Well I have a feeling that we're going to find out over the next ten years or so whether we can weed out the bad elements. Human nature will always be human nature and there will always be those who are greedy and try to take advantage but I'm hoping that the revelations that we go through that I talked about in The Choice will be so dramatic and people will be so shocked, that we will not forget this moment in history. And we will not allow these these same mistakes to be made in the future. Yeah, let's hope! Well it's been a great talk I love the book The Idea of Remnants of Intelligent Life Us or Otherwise in the Solar System is just such a fun topic to explore and once you find evidence of it It's just that much more exciting so keep doing what you do I'm excited for Ancient Aliens on Mars I hope you can come back and we can do a show on that book and on anomalous structures on Mars

1:04:45 I'd love to for sure, absolutely. Awesome! Well keep doing what you do and keep us updated with your findings man have a good one. I will thanks for having me on Greg. Thank you bye now There it is people, episode 49. Mike Barra and his book Ancient Aliens on the Moon That's a topic that can get you high all on its own Thanks for listening You can always find older episodes in TheHigherSideChats.com And the YouTube channel Of course you can check out my conspiracy themed T-shirts at conspiratees.net Tomorrow is my birthday so a great present from me would be if YOU bought yourself a gift from conspiratese.net and we have a great topic and a great guest prepared for episode 50 next week. The one thing that I'd like to improve is the listener interaction, it's... We're all a bit frustrated with the mainstream and we should start pulling our numbers together Anyway if you haven't learned enough about the moon in this episode then maybe this will do it And I'll see you next Sunday

1:05:46 I guess the change in the phases Brighten it up, I'm like The moon is a new moon too Is that so? Eclipse yeah The moon's like the sun above Ain't the sun a slip? Suns not so lit And although there's waxing and waning I still like it best with A New Moon Yeah we're charting With new width starting But the next phase is waxing crescent We're moving counterclockwise the first quarter That's only a quarter way there It's waxing and waning, that looks like a spark missing Left side is darkening Yeah go run and tell your little friends I guess the change in bright mood exists yeah Earth shatters, it's time to be an awesome nasty liar Change is tomorrow, raining is so neat Trying to keep limits or a bit left half gets heat The rain increases

1:07:28 Looks like a sea of skew. Just like the light side was hiding. Yeah, go run and tell your little friends! I guess the change in the phases is bright. It's a new moon too Is that solar eclipse? The moon blocking the sun is slipping as daylight. The Sun, Moon and Earth are lined up. Springtime, springtime, springtime But when the Moon and Sun are placed at a right angle

1:08:23 so bad he died, he died, he died. Why? Why? Gravity's in our lives, it's rotten soon it turns to skin for a shadow cast away who's going to be moon?