THC 43: Andrew Colvin | The Mothman, Mind Control Memes, & The Corporate Conspiracies of West Virginia

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. But what 30 and I do are different kind of far. For a new era of worldly freshness we offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Kurls on The Fireside Chat Welcome to THC folks drinking a little drink smoking a little smoke from San Diego. I'm Greg Carlwood today I got the Joker smoker midnight toker Adam go rightly back a dominant force in the world of high weirdness this time Co-hosting the show with me, which is a goddamn pleasure in itself Adam what's happening?

00:49 Hey, nice to be back again. It's Groundhog Day! Oh it is right on that's how not paying attention I am to conventional things No i meant the groundhog day in terms of like oh our The Bill Murray movie Yeah yeah because we did record yesterday well We tried...we talked yesterday but we did not record That thats actually the problem thats why were here For those of you who've been checking it out, Adam is also maintaining a weekly column at thehiresideshots.com called Transmissions from a Dying Planet which you can see new entries in every Thursday What's new man? What has been occupying the mind of Mr. Gowrightly lately? Just working on a number of book projects Hopefully those will come into fruition this year

01:41 writing and recording a little music, and yeah just staying busy here at the Greatly corporate offices in my laboratory. Well, today's guest is going to be Andrew Colvin. He's an author artist and Magi of the Mothman mythos And if you're not familiar with Andy's work folks You might have read Adams interview with Andy for UFO magazine Which was his last transmissions of a dying planet column entry? How much work have you done for UFO mag actually uh the relationship with UFO mag goes back

02:20 Oh, probably to the 90s mid-90's or so. They've changed publishers over the years originally it was started by Don and Vicki Ecker who are pretty famous in ufology and I wrote a review book review or two for them back in the day In recent years last five six seven years its been taken over by Bill and Nancy Burns another husband wife to Over the last year or two, they've had me jump aboard as one of their columnists. So I have a column appearing on in each issue of UFO magazine that's also called Transmissions from a Dying Planet and like that title. Yeah it is a great time. I like it as well

03:24 The zine movement I guess was always kind of interesting to me, but because it was very underground It seemed like that was the way to get knowledge before the internet You know. I'm sure now the Internet's kinda if they haven't adopted. I'm sure they're struggling some of these magazines Oh Many have gone by the wayside most have gone gunned by the waist side we were talking Yesterday you know you'd ask me where we got our information back in the day this old folks before the internet and it was the zine movement and the zine movement really kind of evolved into what is on the internet these days as far as conspiracy writings and stuff on the paranormal. Back in the day when we didn't have the internet, it was kind of an underground network in a sense that people... I was into conspiracies but I was also into the paranormal

04:19 and psychedelics. And so you had a core group of folks putting out magazine back in those days that I kind of hooked up with, and I still have relationships with a lot of these folks like well Paranoia Magazine for instance is still around it that started during that period there's a lot other folks like West Nations with Crash Collusion magazine. He published my early piece called UFOs, LSD and Me back in the day and guys like Greg Bishop who put out The Excluded Middle I'm still good friends with Greg Ken Thomas Steam Shovel Press Yeah he's gonna be on the show in a couple of weeks

05:02 So that was the network back in the day. We were kind of below, not really mainstream. Some of these folks have gone into the mainstream and more widely known but yeah it was kinda an underground network Right on sorry that I took a second cuz Andy just messaged me that he didn't set his alarm And he just woke up, but he'll be ready in a few minutes must be must be nice to live that kind of life If I forget my if I forget to set my alarm. I'm probably gonna have to move out of my house shortly after

05:47 Let's talk about that piece you wrote, that interview with Andy. It's an interesting idea the whole UFO alien motif would have been created as an over-the-top distraction to keep the spotlight off what they were working on which Andy says in the interview has blossomed into The manless drone technology we see today and I don't know...I like to hope that the real story isn't quite so boring But what do you think? Well, yeah. That theory's been out there for quite a while that you know there is a lot of disinformation in fact all the big stories some would suggest and I tend to agree with those who suggest this that such stories as like Dulcey the underground base is there with the secret pact between

06:40 humans and aliens, and all the dastardly doings they're supposedly doing down there. It's really a smoke screen for other things that are going on in these secret underground bases that probably do indeed exist but it's to muddy the water you know, inevitably discount the real stories. You know if somebody's claiming there is underground bases in Dulcey, I hear this another quote unquote conspiracy theorist that you know and same thing with Area 51 and testing secret craft out there that people point to said all those... There are UFOs out there when i say UFOs

07:31 the common conception when people say UFOs is that they're piloted by aliens but you know, why are these... alien piloted UFOs all is over these military installations You know, so that was a convenient smoke screen. You know there's other things going on at those bases They're tossed toxic dumps for nuclear weapons storage and these type of things which are really I think what is being covered up by this the disinformation out there you know a lot of people in the double C area and

08:10 past decade or so have contracted cancer, you know folks that live on the reservation. So the story is probably more about nuclear weapons storage facilities and radiation leaking and these type of things. Right it doesn't seem as interesting to people like us necessarily but you know just someone living in the area whose family's coming down with cancer they probably wish they had some real information Yeah, indeed. Anyway that's the kind of where Colvin is coming from and drone technology he suggests really accounts for a lot of the UFO reports over the years going back in time that it was testing this drone technology And that's definitely possible? Yeah which is you know nowadays right in our face

09:08 Soon to be in your backyard. Yeah, probably already is you know I would just suspect the drones to look a little less like miniature airplanes You know that that the fact they still hold that shape Makes me kind of think like really those if they were flying UFOs wingless UFOs In a wingless drones Two decades ago, you know why are they going with this? The model that seems kind of primitive by comparison and Well, the models that we see... I mean there's a lot of strange looking craft out there. I've seen some of the wingless models around today and course going back you know to the Nazi Bellcraft and all that you know that might have been your first drone technology that got imported into the good old US survey with Project Paperclip

10:02 and you know the whole importation of all those Nazi rocket scientists back in the day were very influential on the US space program. So, there's a continuity there that we can talk to Mr. Colvin about this these are some Areas that his research gets into mm-hmm. I expect this conversation to be a wild one I mean, I've spent all week digesting as much of his work as I could I'm glad I got an extra day to do so You know he's got some much out there covers So many strange areas and it's a lot to take in I felt like I was cramming for an exam or something But there's so much to hear about

10:44 Well, what about in terms of the thought that drones are responsible for the alien motif? What about Roswell? I mean didn't... aren't there a lot of witnesses out there that said they saw bodies. Not that they have to be alien bodies but they saw some type of strange humanoid bodies Well, I don't know how much of that is legend and a lot of the so-called witnesses are all gone. I don't know how many really actually saw bodies, how much of that is the mythos surrounding the whole story once again with all these UFO tales separating the wheat from the chaff is kind of difficult thing to

11:32 do sometimes because there's obviously so much intended misinformation or disinformation woven into the stories and there are all kinds of theories about Roswell as well. You interviewed Nick Redfern Therena's book, Body Snatchers in the Desert. They were basically using some real-life humans that had I think the disease is called porgellons or something close to that and they were basically used as crash test dummies maybe that was supposedly what the bodies out there

12:14 In the desert, recently you had Walter Bosley on your show and he has another interesting theory or basically it's information that he received from his father that he repeated. Over the years, of course we know Bosley was in Air Force Intelligence and his father was in military intelligence. I believe, I forget exactly what his job was but he had information this is kind of almost deathbed information that the senior Bosley shared with Walter that the craft that crashed in Roswell actually came from the inner earth and that the Beans in there were human looking but they didn't have any hair Now make of that what you will who knows, you know? And there's a lot of these stories of Inner-earth beings this is part of the whole UFO or paranormal or going back in time and maybe there are some

13:18 Something to that as well, that there's this race of creatures that are also semi-human and they've been sharing the Earth with us over all these years. Who knows? It could be the Neanderthals that are living in the inner earth or lived in the inner earth. This is my theory take on the thing because most neanderthals were pictured as these hairy guys but actually they didn't really have a lot of hair and, of course, they had...they had the larger size head and though a lot of the alien depictions you see, the beings have larger heads and there are little smaller than

14:03 You're a typical human today, so maybe it's the Neanderthals. It could be! Who knows? Yeah...it is a little tough I love the inner-earth stories and i've heard some really really wild ones and that's kind of the direction I want to have a few those guests on this show soon but you know, stories of mammoths and like giant paradises under the poles. Really weird stuff that doesn't really seem possible but is fascinating nonetheless but it's a lot harder to believe that there could be beings on the same planet under the earth than there is to think they could come in from a place we can't even get too. You know? That's kind of why its more slightly more believable I guess this whole idea

14:51 the sensationalism behind disinformation, I think is something that David Icke either...I would say he fell into it. I haven't really heard him allude to it directly or but he kind of says that when he was going on his whole original Storyline he you know he came up with the or. He got the information that they're actually reptilians And that's where everybody kind of tuned out and everybody kind of said well I don't think they're reptilian so everything you're saying must be bullshit, and I think that definitely set him back But um yeah now it doesn't seem like he brings that up quite as much or maybe he says that He thinks that they're taking you know the elites at the top might be taking orders from some type of Paranormal entity, or some type of conjured spirit or something like that Yeah, he seems to have gone in that direction a little bit but I mean I see how that can happen someone feeds You information feeds you information and then three months four months down the line says And you know what they're all reptiles and then you go out and say that and you look like a fucking idiot. Oh

15:56 Yeah, I don't discount everything Ike says. Who knows? He might have been manipulated along the line maybe he's a useful idiot of some persuasion...I think he has some keen insights at times and maybe that is going on you know i don't discount the whole reptilian theory either maybe there are some sort other realm running parallel with this, you know these other dimensions and things where entities pop in and out. That's definitely what I observed during my psychedelic UFO encounter back in the day. I don't think we talked about that do you want to give the cliff notes of that while Andy is still getting ready? Oh boy! Cliff notes...

16:56 Drop some acid with a friend. That's how it always starts Yeah Like I there was a little meme No, really great story starts with somebody eating salad. It's usually drinking or doing something but that's good and so Cliff notes here we were warned about this stuff that the guy who sold it to us and that be careful it's been double dipped and was ah whatever. And came on really heavy, we were at this place party house had to get out of there man was the vibes were too heavy both agree his friend and I so we there was a ditch bank a levy nearby what you thought that'd be good place to kind of get away you know we're in suburbia

17:48 and I joked before we hit the ditch bank, what if we saw a UFO right now? Nobody would believe us. And we started laughing quite hysterically. Found that funny. Yeah! Before long we saw our first UFO and we saw number of UFOs that night you know they were at the beginning of the thing they were kind of your classic shaped UFOs but as it progressed, they became more cartoonish something out of oh god Dr. Seuss looking weird things so that's kind of the extent of the experience

18:31 saw those with, we're still good buddies now. We've always had kind of a simpatico right music together and these type of things but when we were seeing these things whatever they where we were describing them to each other the same way we're seeing the same thing basically so if we were hallucinating it was a dual hallucination It could have been telepathically we were beaming those images back and forth to our minds. You know, I've been so...I've been wrestling with this thing over the years of this experience trying to figure it out and I think part of it had to do that before we even saw the UFO's we planted the seeds what if we saw some UFO? So that's kind of my working theory is that we perform some type of unwitting ritual magic

19:24 Well, that's what I would ask is like there seems to be a definite link between psychedelics and You know if you want to consider UFOs paranormal experiences. I know Terrence McKenna famous famous philosopher of sorts Psychedelic philosopher he had an experience the same way it was on mushrooms, and he saw some craft so bill hicks Bill Hicks as well. Yeah, yeah he's that was induced by By medicine as well So it is odd and there's also stories of people doing ayahuasca when they do it they have visions and hallucinations But they're the whole group sees those things sometimes They've seen The Little Greys on Ayahuasca mm-hmm or so reports Graham Hancock

20:08 Right, another great writer. It's odd I don't know...I've never done LSD so I heard that's a lot more of a visual kind of trip So i'd be interested to do that but these days I just am so busy that I can't take a day to do some serious psychedelics because I can't get in the right mindset. Do I need to answer emails? Do I need to do this, go to work? Is my store alright?" So, I just can't cut loose like a couple years ago. LSD's on my list!

20:53 Journey, if you look at it as a shamanistic journey then there's amount of preparation that needs to go into this You know me perhaps. You know there's a reason he haven't done it yet that should not ready could be I always drive myself crazy thinking about I Me being an idiot. You know it's nice I was thinking about that afterwards too, and I always look at things like that Yeah There was a reason that didn't happen that we're gonna do it again We're gonna maybe we said something yesterday That was wrong in the universe is like no you know And we're not going to put that one up and then today It'll be a little different

21:50 Maybe we needed to go deeper into something. Maybe that was just a trial run for us doing the show together, who knows? Yeah maybe it could have been a rapport builder. It's tough to know if things are just random or if everything is connected and those seem to be the two opposing philosophies usually between left and right brain people I don't get worried. Things have happened like that before when I was doing the podcast, shows that got screwed up for one reason or another where I've worked on book projects even as recently as a few months ago. I was on the road and had my laptop. When I'm at home, I got an automatic backup system

22:42 But I was on the road and wrote some good stuff, then I lost it all. It's like... Oh fuck man! That's gotta be... But then you step back and say maybe that happened for a reason Maybe what I'll rewrite that section material will come out better Yeah, at least it helps with your peace of mind to think there is some kind mechanism behind it Obviously if you do it again, it's gonna be different in some respects. So true we've already proven that point Yeah, yeah looks like Andy is prepared He's finishing his toast and coffee so I'm gonna go ahead and play the ad for conspiracies my conspiracy clothing company And then on the other side we'll talk to Andy Coven about Mothman and much much more don't fucking go anywhere

25:18 Thanks for having me again. Yeah You know let me see you know I've been on several shows where the equipment went haywire Oh, man Me and me and Adam were just talking about the idea of you know did that happen because a random occurrence or was it meant to happen? Did we say the wrong thing was it you know? Just fuck up yeah That seems to be the most likely answer We should ask the Navy for their copy of the transcript. Yes, that's the next step! I guess let me start by saying that most listeners, I'm sure are familiar with at least the pop culture version of The Mothman and the events of Point Pleasant West Virginia in 1966 and 67. Basics being that this winged humanoid shaped seemingly supernatural manifestation with red glowing eyes made itself known with a series of sightings leading up to the collapse of the Silver Bridge and the deaths of 46 people.

26:15 Some say as a harbinger of doom, ushering in the disaster. While some say its intent may have been more to warn the people of the coming disaster Well you know Andy with such an extensive history examining the phenomenon or the creature What insights have you gained into its existence outside of the point pleasant events? That there's a lot of BS around this story A common theme! A common theme with paranormal and conspiracy stories something that we said in our wonderful unrecorded show which was really wonderful. Had to do with doppelganger the doppelganger meme and a lot of people think that it immediately means Doubles of people but it actually refers to concepts about how to wield power in China It's like called the face. It's related to the idea face Through your saving face so if you're in power, you create a second cover story for

27:14 messy or wet work, or anything that has to be done for that power to continue. And so that's why we see a lot of the BS stories in everything and with Mothman it is this demonic black creature with no head and red eyes who really stopped appearing the minute that silver bridge went down You know I've been hearing that for so long, and it's just so not true and you keep wondering. Why do they keep spreading? Why did people keep think thinking that it stopped at the door there's something about that aspect that's important The cover-up proves to crime so yeah, it's weird because maybe the Mothman gives us a clues to some kind of

28:10 Kind of clues into the end of the paranormal that they just wanted to shut down and a bridge collapsing seems like A pretty good catalyst to just be like up shut the books on that one yeah, he's I believe I mentioned that the quality of his appearances or how a paranormal event is usually spun as an outside thing And then what they do in the media then is they pick selected, the stories of selected assets whose stories will fit the cover story and avoid the others. So those are usually not real stories from what I've seen. They're hoaxes or they are setups of some kind. Just disinformation?

29:00 Yeah, a real sighting because I do believe there's a real phenomenon but there is synthetic one laid over it. It's some kind of interface between the human mind and either natural geomagnetic or EMF forces, or synthetically created by... And I don't mean by agents but just something about man-made radiation and chemicals. Lots of things can be done to people accidentally just from being around a geomagnetic source that causes them

29:39 creatures, and there seems to be a default alien phase that Stanislav Grof figured out. Or was it Persinger? It might have been Persinger or Michael Persinger. They did these experiments with LSD and that you can approximate LSD with other things, and get people to see this...to see things. Especially the alien face. There doesn't seem to be a default to Birdman so that's sort of an unusual thing

30:17 Right, and your book Mothman Shrieks the one that you shared with me I mean it goes into the history of cultures with some type of bird man myth And this seems to be fairly related in that myth seems to be pretty widespread. You got stories of The Thunderbird Garuda Osiris The Eagle on the US seal the strange statue on top of the u.s.. Capitol building with the bird raising from the crown of a guy's head That's pretty fucking weird Yeah, I should clarify that. I think people are seeing the Birdman is not a default archetype but it might be actually. It's just that because you can't trust Persinger or Groff ultimately they may be spooks too so they may be giving us information that's false and saying the alien face is the default image when the Birdman is but the Birdman stories are just not propagated. The only ones that are propagated

31:10 ones are a little more questionable, actually. Nowadays...back then I don't think in 66-67 it was just a flood of sightings and they weren't picking and choosing as so much. And most of those sightings were...they had some variation in them. Most of the people that I've talked to saw something that was like a man with feathers and a long neck so that the neck bent down in front of you in the dark, you might see it as not having a head. The Garuda statues from India show detachable wings So I've worked up a theory that Mothman might be Bigfoot

31:47 Or there may be a creature, and I believe yesterday outlined a possible scenario whereby Kiel had...because they were both being seen at the same time in the TNT area. But Kiel had revealed this to someone who might be a covert asset who then decided to cook up a Bigfoot film the Patterson film so that by the time the Patterson film came out, we were just two weeks before The Silver Bridge collapse and a bunch of other stuff was happening at

32:22 At that very same time, like LSD became illegal on the day that the Silver Bridge came down. No way! So a bunch of things like that happened right on that day I think was it Hitler died supposedly? The second death of Hitler or you know because its rumored he went to Argentina Yeah, I've heard that And then some of the people lurking around the Mothman story, the Men in Black or who may have been posing as outer space men. The space man like Indrid Cold was saying that he was from Lanulos this planet and he…

33:05 And the description of it in Woody's book sounds a lot like Argentina or one of those Nazi havens down there where they had high-tech stuff, sort of out in the jungle there with people walking around nude and partying down. There, yeah I'm not sure where I was going with that but answer the question. Yeah right on. Hey Andy could you describe your own Mothman sightings and what those mean to you? Yeah, at the time of the first wave in late 66 I just saw a silhouette flying above my car. I had heard the stories of this thing being seen and then I started to feel like it had honed in on me for some reason and it was just a feeling and it was just like you know strange

34:02 strange thing and then I thought I saw it, and I may have been imagining it. I don't know but my dad's reaction was kind of odd because he was driving and He I think he thought that I had seen one of the drones they were building a car by because he He mumbled something about the government, and I think he may have been working on them actually because that was his specialty in the Navy was fixing jet engines and things like that. So they probably came up with some new vortex type of engine for these early saucers. If you read up on the literature there are lots of different ways they could build the engines for them. Some of them ran on chemicals—the mixing of two chemicals like a jet pack

34:48 Basically, they would find at a couple of the saucer landing sites tubes that sort of point in that direction. Like, and liquids and tubes and things that John Keel named a couple the makers of the stuff like DuPont was one of them. It kind of isolated down I think we talked yesterday about how carbide some other stuff has been found at Roswell Right yeah And then I'd never heard that before and you were saying there was some glue and some type of plastic that was found there?

35:25 Yeah, the Bakelite. The Bakelite story is kind of interesting. The family that made Bakelite sold out to carbide and then there was a movie made about the heir to the Bakelite fortune who killed his mother. She was a socialite…what's the name of that book? Anyway... Interesting story. But you sort of see the German connection, so Tesla's patents were stolen by Lind who was Hitler's neighbor. Lind partnered with Carbide and probably started secret building... they started building the nuclear reactor there probably at the start of World War II in West Virginia where I lived. Charlie Manson lived right across from it

36:13 Right, we talked about that a bit yesterday too in the Prescott-Bush connection. But to break down the Tesla information for people because I and lot of people are into Tesla what you can find is really fascinating he was way ahead of his time and because he wasn't quite the capitalist he kind of got thrown to the west waste side but um... You proposed that his notes and all of his stuff was confiscated at his death and taken to Germany, which helped along the German technology. The Nazi technology that we seem to see coming through in the paranormal a little bit—there's a lot of little things and suspicions that they were working on craft flying saucers and such—that all came from Tesla

36:57 Yeah, Tesla had a drone that was really sort of his ultimate. And I'm trying to remember my exact source on this on how Lind stole the patents. I don't think it's in the Lind company history book. God, I'll have to find that but Lind was really the only other person who could compete with Tesla on certain things like what are What do they call that? It has to do with liquids, cooling liquids. Extreme cooling of liquids and heating of liquids to create gases. Cold fusion kind of stuff

37:37 Well, yeah. Ultimately yes and that's all Lynn stuff but he got it from Tesla because Tesla's lab mysteriously burnt down just to see who was going to patent all these things and the patents were burned up and then Lynn patented them all so the story is that Prescott Bush was sent in to become Tesla's partner in the lab, he was his lab assistant Prescott Bush this is a conspiracy theory and George Bush was... George what's the monkey um.. What's that whole story with the monkey Adam? Do you remember that? I have no idea. Curious George? Yeah! Yes! Curious George was the name that Tesla gave to George Bush senior because he was always messing around in the lab Really

38:31 Yes, and then the minute that new movie came out not too long ago the artist was murdered. The guy who came up or not…was he murdered? There was something suspicious about it – the guy who wrote The Curious George books. Here he was making a joke. an inside joke about Bush Sr. The minute that movie came out, which would catapult him back into the news he ends up dead. Really? So the story of Curious George was based off of the interactions between Tesla and George Sr.? Yes! That is interesting Don't ask me how that came about or I don't know how valid it is but... That's interesting

39:18 I wonder what the symbology of the man in the yellow hat would be. Because that's an odd way to describe someone. Yeah, maybe Tesla wasn't the first to come up with his ideas. Maybe he got it... He claims he got his ideas from speaking to... Entities right? Entities right! Which may be a causal error because just because you're in touch with entities doesn't necessarily mean they're the ones giving you the information. I think if you're very imaginative and you can see imagery so concretely as he did,

39:54 Because he could just see the whole thing in his mind. Mm-hmm. Whole invention, now I don't...I had just a couple of vague approximations of that when i was a kid where I would get the whole thing and see pictures and things that I would draw on so I know that's possible but I don't know that it's an entity doing it It may be that you're seeing entities because your brain is just working over time in so many ways that you are perceiving, well you may just flat out be perceiving more of the super spectrum than the average person. Could be. That always seems to be the challenge because we don't even understand our own consciousness We don't really know how powerful it is, but there are other people who've said they've gotten scientific information or technological information from a source The guy who discovered DNA to my knowledge He said he did that on an LSD trip and it just came into his mind So... What? They came up with the drawing of the DNA

40:55 Yeah, who came up with the double helix structure. Francis Crick I believe was his name and he said that on an LSD trip it just appeared to him in his mind And then he was doing research into DNA and he saw the double helix He's like that's fucking it right there That's what I saw you know what Allen Ginsberg said about LSD don't ya? Probably a lot of things but what do you got? It is the multiple million-eyed monster. It is hidden in all elephants and selves that is trippy Hey Andy, can we backtrack just a little bit? Well, I didn't talk about my sighting I didn't yeah, I Just remembered that so Then my friend He said Mothman was visiting him flying saucers were landing in his yard All kinds of crazy stuff

41:54 And he dared me, he said I can show you this vision they've given to me of 2001 if you hold my hand and stand in this place in our yard. Then I did and I did see exploding buildings then I went into this life premonition viewing session where I saw all the different lifelines that I could take If I went this way, I'd end up dead at this age and all the stuff. And it said...and the answer was that I should essentially do art but it said do an album to a book into movie and you will be okay. So when I hit 40, I started because it's said you'll start when your forty so I started when I was four. I've done art my whole life but I really started trying to get something out there that would be quote official and all of that

42:46 Hey, so back when you had that vision what year was that? How old were you? That was 67. So I was just 8 Weird...so what induced this experience? You went into a neighbor's yard and you had visions of possible life timelines out of nowhere or...? Yes Yeah, we went back there in 2000-something and tried to see if it still worked the vortex but it didn't. Man maybe that was some type of Earth energy or some kind of vortex You mentioned the vortex wasn't this connected to a UFO sighting or landing of some sort? Yeah he's at around that same time he showed us marks in the yard and said the Flying Saucer had landed there

43:41 And then I would say over at his house right around then, and I woke up. I had a weird dream about little puck wedgies in the room, little furry men and he was screaming that they were in the room but those little men were or had been in the room and his mom and dad came out and everything I always thought his dad was odd and strange, and not very nice. He worked at the tech center. So they could have been experimenting on Tommy somehow he got he had a 170 IQ At that time right well fourth grade we tested for that so it would have been A couple years after that That's a pretty high score Yeah there is no doubt i mean the guy was the smartest person I'd ever met

44:31 You know smarter than his parents, so it's very strange and five years later I was at that house. I'm just he had to move away because everyone really sort of just got rejected in the community He was he was scaring people he predicted the death of a teacher's husband in Class and then the husband died a week later, so that was about it. It was like Wow you know go somewhere Yeah, where is that guy? Do you have any contact with that dude anymore? We contacted his mother. She's a higher up than NASA, by the way he saw his timeline and predicted that he would work for NASA and he did but she is very protective of him and wouldn't claim that he wouldn't want to talk to us so she seems to be covering something But I did get something from him! I got a box not too long ago from his address or from his town in Florida

45:32 And it had a fossil that he had appropriated from me. We traded things and we were supposed to trade them back in the year 2001 when this attack thing happened." It's very odd, it's like where did we even... You saw a vision of the Twin Towers being hit at in that backyard N67 at eight years old And then you made this pact with this guy that you were going to trade something back after that thing happened. Yes, one of the items was a shrunken head. Appropriate! A plastic shrunken head Right I remember those, those were quite popular when we were kids and the fossil i had completely forgotten about but got a note saying it was like sorry it took so long to get this back too

46:22 And there it was. And he didn't say, he didn't sign it... nothing. Hey could you touch upon the special school program you were in? It was a new school earmarked by Robert Kennedy for some reason. He had connections in our town one of One of LBJ's daughters, one of my classmates who would have been my classmate in junior high from a neighboring elementary school. She ended up going to DC and being an LBJ's daughter's class so there was some connections there with people in Charleston who were higher-up in the carbide pyramid like Michelle Obama used to work for carbides she was their warrior for the coal pollen

47:14 So, if you do Carbide right and end up being rewarded. We certainly have a few people like that in Charleston today who give lots of money to Harvard and Ivy League schools because once Rockefeller came in he He really bolstered the Eastern establishment control of West Virginia because it was in trouble. During the Mothman era, there was so much rancor and striking carbide that the natives were restless. I think they sent Jay Rockefeller in to get the state back under control

47:54 during the sixties you know. Yeah, in the late right after the silver bridge it's probably because I think he started running for governor in 70 1970 against Peter D Beater the originator of the reptilian meme at least we talked about that a little bit well the reptilian meme as far as it applies to politicians he was claiming that in the 70s he was claiming that Jimmy Carter was a reptilian. So what he was, was actually a Rockefeller agent and had been in Kennedy's cabinet too as an economist. We ought to give a little background on Dr Peter D. Beter. What an unfortunate name but he thought... He was one of the

48:40 Well, he was an early conspiracy theorist. I guess you could say there used to be tapes circulating of Dr Peter D Beaver and i think i have a couple in my collection he was putting out theories this was during like uh Reagan administration or late 70's He was claiming that the stuff like the Russians had created Androids political leaders with androids these type of things pretty wild stuff yeah Peter Beter huh that does not sound made up at all no he was the template for David Ike David Ike does exactly in their boat they both got money from the Rockefellers really we me and Adam talked about in the pre-show before you brought when we talked a little bit about David Ike and the idea of disinformation what are your thoughts on that do you think he's all this information

49:36 What Bader was doing was, his book on economics is unbelievably great. You should read it. I can't remember what it's something about the dollar, the fall of the decline in the dollar or something and its brilliant! Well so as David Eichmann he's just talking about something like It'll leave bloodlines, but then they introduce the big lie and the big bullshit into the story. The reptilians and it discredits everything else they've said so their purpose is to identify The truth that you're supposed to not listen to for the rest of your life Tell you what it is Then tell you about the billions And then it's wiped from your memory its almost like a hypnotic little thing They do

50:20 But on top of... Go ahead. You go ahead. I'm here all the time! No, I wasn't going to go anywhere that great. I was just gonna say you're also a pretty keen observer of synchronicities in general both in your personal life we kind of talked about and larger ones that link world events Hollywood symbolism and media manipulation of the human psyche that kinda thing which is the area I find most fascinating The crossover between paranormal and conspiracy uh... and i was gonna ask you if there are any recent big synchronicities that you've noticed and now the untrained eye might have overlooked yeah i couldn't but it never really good answer for this one uh... before yesterday right up i mean we can even go back to the most recent major thing that happened which is sandy huck i mean there's some synchronicity is there that you've noticed red all of ya that's right we had a yes um...

51:19 Well, the theory of synchronicity is probably what we're getting at here. The theory is again you have a doppelganger so you have real synchronicities in your life that you can recognize as real synchronicities then you've got in the media though they've got synthetic synchronicities which are put together in a way that causes I won't say hypnosis but it really Because think about when you have a synchronicity in your own life. Think about the charge you get, that little charge like wow! It's exciting. What they try to do is have that happen in real time.

51:59 in one of their bogus stories or bogus cover stories about an event. So the synchronicities happen in the bogus area and suddenly everyone gets excited about that, and then they're talking about it for 50 years you know? The same bullshit lie that started at the beginning... And you see this through all the different UFO stories and Bigfoot, you know? It's like, God! Did I already said that I thought- did I mention that Bigfoot was I don't think I got to the stand-in part. So, Kiel let it out that there were these two creatures being seen together and one of our favorite cryptozoologist friends who was monitoring Kiel at that time took it to his buddies and then they cooked up the Patterson film

52:49 And then they – so two weeks before the bridge comes down, the Patterson film comes out. Then they stop talking about Mothman and say he's gone forever and then they just talk about Bigfoot from then on because Bigfoot is non-controversial. It doesn't give people premonition. It doesn't give premonitions of assassinations, which might get people excited about finding out who killed Kennedy and who killed Martin Luther King. That was one of Mothman's prophecies – Martin Luther King. If the word gets out that people have been having premonitions of Martin Luther King's shooting, people get excited by the synchronicity and want to find out if he really did it. So they have to come up with something that just deadens people and there is nothing more dead than Vic. I mean yeah it would be great to see it walking around but as a media story its boring. It's like okay who?

53:51 He just lopes around in the forest. He doesn't give a shit about politics." Right, there seems to be something in the blind spot that we just can't get our hands on that they've kind of roped off you know exactly what they rooted out from The Mothman Mythos it's like uh... It's a paranormal part of the equation that they sort of keep us from discovering Yes, well the spooks infiltrate religion. Religious institutions and academic institutions are the prime targets of spies and have been for millennia because that way you control people's imaginations their faith their belief as well as their academic teaching We talked about how our system came down from the Prussians who designed it to make sure that their boys would shoot at Napoleon soldiers

54:43 And so we've continued that same line, which makes us more likely to shoot at other people. And then you add antidepressants to the mix, which actually deadens the part of the brain that Allows you to have compassion for other people and bingo school shooters And I don't think they care the least about stopping the school shooter phenomenon. There's no discussion whatsoever About the drugs right well That's the next question is this school shooter phenomenon like is this just a byproduct of a sick society or are these? Manchurian candidates are these MK ultra mind-controlled People that are selected to carry this action out, or are they just Patsy's And they really have some sharpshooters in there carrying it out.

55:38 Right. And it could be as simple as they've gone through the school system, they've got some drugs, they've got a psychiatrist, their psychiatrist is connected, uh...they beam a couple of waves at them and boom! I mean i think you can probably cause somebody to start shooting pretty easily if you know how to do it. And that's a scary thought for some people. You know with HAARP they can supposedly control our gross behaviors uh... you know make you feel happier sad you know simple stuff so you know there's no telling what they can do with the satellite if they beam that particular way that your me here quite sure they can like tell you as we talked about that uh... incident or a series of incidents at the dupont plant where my stepdad worked for him and other people have seen burning men running on fire

56:35 I speculated that, and I know these are real stories because I worked there. Since Carbide had the laser technology they'd gotten from Lind who had gotten it from Bruce Roberts, he's a gemstone file guy, he discovered artificial rubies And Lynn stole them from him and probably started building the death ray where I lived. That may have been what they were doing at the TNT area, in fact it may not have been a Nazi bell. I talked about how the Nazi Bell or the Kecksburg crash thing device had...I know it was moved to Wright-Patterson but it could've

57:26 Or a copy made at the TNT area, which would have helped bring the bridge down if you had a Nazi bell spinning underground. They have to put it way underground or else it vibrates the crap out of everything and The nuclear plant nuclear reactor at the tech center run by carbide now owned by Arco well It was that run by Arco at the time which is not BP They built their thing way underground, their nuclear reactor. So they already had experience with building these deep underground things. Would you say that it seems like a lot of this stuff that you talk about comes from DuPont and Union Carbide and some of these corporations?

58:11 It seems like these corporations are the ones that hold the real power, that if you were to go looking for secrets you wouldn't look for disclosure from the government. You'd look in the archives of some of these corporations They seem to be almost surpassing the government black ops projects in a way Yeah well they're running... I mean it's their idea The government is a brainless entity That really has just Its real function is to distribute money. So yeah, the corporations are at the heart of everything.

58:55 petrochemical industry, that valley that I lived in. Once covered by Indian mounds they were all torn down and different chemical plants put on them and that was the place that coal tar was...I don't know if they discovered the process for it in Germany and sent it over but there's a lot of crossing back-and-forth information between carbide and IG Farben So like when the Nazis were attacking, we were sending them... I think we're probably sending them synthetic fuel. I know we gave him patent for it and Prescott Bush was running their steel industry And he lived near the area. I mean, he's only about an hour away from Point Pleasant. But in the media they're always described as being from Texas or Connecticut but there are the Ohio Valley industrialist family from way back. You go back to the late 1800s or the mid-1800s

59:50 They discovered natural gas in Charleston. That was also where they had all the salt mines, and underneath the salt you have natural gas and then underneath that you have oil. The whole fricking big oil thing and now Big Pharma, you see because they control Big Pharma. Today we have Bayer running a lot of things They're the ones calling for all the natural gas to come in from the areas around so that they can crack it as quickly as possible. Bayer is the one that's doing it and So a lot of profits from the cracking are going to go out-of-country

1:00:29 But that all started in the late 1800s where you had carbide's first cracking plant way upriver from Point Pleasant up to Elk River. That was the first place a Mothman was seen in 1966. So, Mothman actually appears over these plants you see and then he gives people premonitions of assassinations and things so it's almost like he is trying to reveal... It's almost like he is saying that Nazis and their nuclear power are going to destroy you unless you do something and they're killing your leaders etc., etc..

1:01:09 I'm working on, or just running that through my mind lately. The fact that a lot of our problems are because we are colonized country and we have our colonial masters who still run the show, I think. Yeah. And there's certainly BP now runs all of Standard Oil prior holdings they bought most of Standard Oil so...and then they go and they blow the well in the Gulf of Mexico and ruin it for everybody and they don't even care. I mean, they didn't give a hoot! You remember that? Remember the hoots? Oh yeah. Yeah there was a lot of suspicious activity around that. I don't know that much about it but there was some talk that Halliburton was involved in doing some of the security measures which of course fell through

1:01:57 It's a that was a weird one because it seems like just bad PR all around for the corporations that are supposed to usually try to stay out of the spotlight and do their nefarious deeds in private. It was an odd thing to stage, in my opinion I guess I don't really understand their motivation Well, they're they want they want to they I you know that's why they blew the levy when Katrina hit They're trying to depopulate the area and make it into a huge oil refining place Drive out the locals who have been there forever Like just make it all industrial. The Delta of Louisiana has the oldest American indigenous American well, there's

1:02:47 Can't say which one's the oldest but you've got Indians in California to go back Clear evidence they've been there more than 10,000 years Got this Same thing in Charleston all on the Kanawha River The land that was given to George Washington by the British after they made their deal So that was all 8,000 year old cultures. You know you can clearly find evidence pottery shards and stuff so but the Louisiana area Is really a bastion of America. It's like real America, like real black people that lived here before the slaves came This is what they're trying to cover up The higher ownership of the country by people of color They want to make it a white country but it's not! It was not a white country and They wanna drive the locals out They wanna drive those locals who have been there for centuries out Makes sense to me Hey uh Andy

1:03:52 You know, we've been talking about Point Pleasant and Charleston with Virginia and all the high weirdness and spookiness going on there. Charles Manson grew up in the area—same block as you did—and do you think that area is basically a MK Ultra operation going down there or went down back into the 60's? You also mentioned about the special school program you were in, or we kind of touched on that. Do you think you were the subject of some type of psyops as well as Charles Manson before you and Tommy and other people growing up in that area?

1:04:39 I think they were selecting, they definitely had a little program there to select the smartest students. And it seemed like they were going after the science kids though so I didn't Because I could draw so well all what one day. I woke up and I could draw like Picasso Well, I guess that doesn't really say much because most people think of Picasso's but uh So they just figured out there is an art kid And I was a bit of a troublemaker, so I don't think they were interested in me But they did one of my other the other quote genius kids ended up working for he does consulting for Bayer and those big corporations

1:05:21 uh... period work for a agency cover company but she doesn't talk about it you know what tell me that if he was just a load to disloaded planes i don't think she was a spook or anything but her uh... some of our aunts and uncles were one of them ran the china lake facility for awhile Her dad worked on the listening station that they have, the British have built with the NSA in West Virginia where they listen to all of the phone calls and everything. So her dad was working on that at the time about this Mothman stuff and Indrid Cold actually came to her house because someone had blown up her dads car when she got into it and started it. Let me stop you right there tell our listeners give a little background on Indrid Cold

1:06:15 and uh... any interactions you might have had with him yeah he showed up there the night that this golden spheres fell out of the sky they've got their update sent out if they set out for a critical it sounds like to look for it because he showed up at then indical shows up at the same time starts talking too would be democrat who worked for carbide now is in the world but isn't it called a man is here manifestation? Well, I think he's a man and I think he actually flew a drone around. It's either that or they were implanting the memory of a saucer after they had mind-controlled the person. Now some people perceived Indrid Cold as a spaceman... an alien right yeah because he obviously wanted Woody to tell the story

1:07:13 About that he had met this spaceman so yeah, he wanted that story to get into the media So that as they went around probably flying things around Either to find these golden spears who had fallen out of something Like a recovery operation. They were doing a secret cover recovery Operation for the Navy in the TNT area at the time on Machman and And Woody was Woody Durenberger, is that the correct name? I guess he wrote a book something about his friend from Lanulos. Is that right? Yeah visitors from Lanulos and you can tell when you read it that they were

1:07:58 hypnotizing him I think, and he actually mentions it. He gives two or three examples of people that were drugged by men in black and he clearly, Indrid Colde was not from outer space and wasn't a man in black That was what his own views So since the TNT area was owned and is still owned by Olin Corporation, which has the Rockefellers on its board. They were pretty much controlling whatever was happening there and so Indrid was I think one of their agents and Harriet's neighbor...so that so Indrid shows up claiming he's FBI and gets Harriet's mom to agree to be an informant

1:08:44 and and they come and so date i think they may have planted this they planted a suitcase of heroin between the houses so harriet found the suitcase took it to her mom and our model the fbi that this her neighbor must be dealing drugs in this by turns out to be i'd bank a member of the bruno crime family out of philadelphia now who controls the bruno crime family out of philadelphia alan dallas Dulles is supposedly the person who came up with the ET meme for use in covert ops It all ties together really right I'll come in from point. I'll come in from that area that was an area in West Virginia Yeah, but because it was in the boonies they had elements of the state and The mob in the big cities nearby controlling it so Philadelphia the Philadelphia mob controlled West Virginia at the time

1:09:41 So when Charles Manson was there, do you think they were grooming him to be a future Patsy of some sort? Yeah. Definitely... well either that or just sadistic torture in the and the jesuit uh... orphanage he said that they had not see ex-nazis running the place now he worked for one of these chemical companies manson worked at the gas station at the bottom of Woodward Drive, which was a Sunoco station at the time. And that is a Rockefeller company. And then I noticed that recently I just found this some info about The Process Church. No? Or was it the OTO did... Do you remember that thing that I mentioned to Amati talking Adam where what's with the OTO that owned

1:10:39 an ARCO station or was it the process? Yeah, I'm not sure about that one. I'm pretty sure it was a process and this is from an FBI document that someone posted to Moppy Talk And so it's said that they own the station and that Blanked out name worked at the station It was probably the UTO I would think because the process didn't come along until The late 60s Hey, on the Manson story there in Charleston. I really became aware of your work before I knew what your name was but it influenced The Shadow Over Santa Susanna my book on the Manson family and the story that Charles Manson there as a kid growing up in Charleston knew Sarah Jane Moore who grew up in the area

1:11:37 Sarah Jane Moore later attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford in the early 70s, and this was the first connection I had ever heard linking these two people which was quite a revelation. What all do you know about that story? I, let's see. I've read two or three books on Sarah since then but that just came from watching the TV and I saw it on the news. We knew that both of them were from Woodward Drive we'd heard those stories around the neighborhood so anytime I saw a Manson story on the news I would listen and in this one

1:12:26 They interviewed the local shop owner who owned the comic book store there and he said that those two knew each other and would come in holding hands. You know what I find interesting about that is, uh... The other person who attempted to assassinate Gerald Ford in that same period early 70s was Lynette Squeaky Fromme who was a Manson family member so You know, that just brings up some rather curious connections and we know who Gerald Ford's vice president was during that period right? Yeah it appeared to be a way to help Rockefeller or clever counter-op to make it seem like Rockefeller was behind this. Yeah Nelson Rockefeller was the Vice President at that time so... Wow

1:13:24 Yeah, you also brought up an interesting connection—a possible connection between Prescott Bush and Manson last time we talked. Saying that Manson's father is supposedly this General Scott that no one really knows. It could possibly be George Bush Sr.'s father making George Bush Sr., Charles Manson Brothers Yeah, because it's possible that they would have had connection associations with Manson's mom. The Bushes because he's there from Cincinnati. The bushes are nearby in Columbus and then Prescott is obviously working with the Rockefellers. They were basically he and Frank Rockefeller ran their steel company in Columbus which was Buckeye Steel.

1:14:21 It's now Worthington Industries, which is where Mitt Romney went to when he was touring Ohio. So they still have these little bastions of Republican hatred that they go to. Now right next to Worthington Industries in Columbus you have this Masonic Lodge that has Joseph K Smith aprons on it. indicating clearly that, to me at least, Mormonism was set up as a franchise of masonry and that the Bushes were somehow probably involved in that. That's an interesting connection as well! I wanted to try to get back to some more modern stories because we talked about that yesterday and it's sad thing that we lost it all but

1:15:09 You do a great job of pointing out some synchronicities and really, I guess rhythms of the media story arc that people are fed. In particular you know recent events we got two school shootings- We have more than that but two main school shootings where in both cases The initial reports are that there's multiple shooters, and then all of a sudden there is one guy. And then in the John Holmes case you have what looks to be someone completely different in the courtroom than the picture that was put out on the media because when you splice them together their nose and jaw are completely different

1:15:46 And then you got the Sandy Hook actors. It's a really creepy situation where people are laughing right before they go on the air to talk about the killing of their kid that just happened, the coroner who is cracking jokes when he supposedly just walked out of a room where he was pulling bullets out of kindergartners. Very strange stuff. Can you shed some light on it? Because a lot of people see that there's So they see that something's not right, but it's very hazy and it's hard to really figure it out. One thing I mentioned was this the alignment with the Mayan calendar—the end of the Mayan calendar—that this was part of that was to completely kill any hope people that there would be a better day coming after the 21st

1:16:38 And that's an interesting thought too because you know before December 21st 2012, you had a big split between people who thought it was doomsday and people who thought it would usher in a new age where we would be living in peace. Sharing all our food or whatever some happy utopia You know, I guess it seems like right before that date came on they just moved the needle back the other way affecting the consciousness in an extremely negative way with uh... The Killing of Kids. A Massacre of Kids you can't really get more severe than that It's part of a trance state that they like to keep us continually in and I'm pretty sure they use Milton Erickson techniques

1:17:23 which often do use amnesia in a way. Erickson could pull you right out of where you were sitting and have this whole conversation with you, and then click his fingers on the person sitting back in their chair and they don't remember even having that conversation so we have that kind of ritual sacrifice And it puts everybody into a trance, which is just like 911. And then you follow up with the barrage of programming at a subliminal level or on the surface and they've really been hammering us since then with a lot of propaganda

1:18:00 and they're really just pulling out a lot of stuff from the Cold War, same old memes. Really worn-out crap." And do you think that there seems to be some type of rhythm to all this? Like it coincides with dates that are important in the occult... It seems very strange. It's like the programming follows this pattern Do you see that at all? Yeah They seem to go for two weeks and then there's a week off whenever there is a pagan holiday or a holiday with any occult significance they really lay it on thick. And I think they planned some of the trials that they have, scam trials for any kind of scamming that has been going on or Senate inquiries or the release of bad information about the latest Chase scandal

1:18:59 anything bad or anything embarrassing to the elites will get smashed in there into that around those holidays. But still be all these fantastic crazy killings and Reversal stories, a reversal story also will induce the trance. If there's a story reported in the official media that you don't expect to ever see in the official media it is a reversal story just by that fact and then often they'll have reversal in the story...in the content of the story Define a reversal story kind for people who might be new to the idea

1:19:35 It's on one level. It's something that shocks you You're like how the hell did this story make it into the news? Like this can't be, you know Trying to think of some of them well here might be an example that we did discuss is There and you can find it on YouTube Anderson Cooper saying that they they busted a giant child pornography ring within the Pentagon and then most Pentagon agents in the that building, we're looking at child porn. That seems to be really really odd and it's skating close to the line of Project Monarch sex slaves and right around you saw one story of it And it went away whereas We hear this story about a football player who fell into some relationship online with a woman that turned out to be a man and you hear about it for a week Well which story seems more important to you?

1:20:32 Yeah, anything that's got a real twist in the story that you've never heard before. Something that doesn't seem to go with the laws of physics. Oh something like that? So that would be, you know the military watching porn or the Pentagon right? The Pentagon guys watching porn. That's the sound...that kind of thing has happened enough that it is almost expected in a way but and the same with preachers or priests right? I guess there may have been one time at which that would seem like a reversal story because its like what?! Why would they be doing that? But after you've heard enough its no longer a reversal story. It's something that just needs to be covered up

1:21:15 So they continually have to create new reversal stories as the old ones. The old ops get outed and become normalized so now you know you see another story about Pedophilia, no I go. You know Like it doesn't seem. I was trying to think of us raping kids again Oh yeah, I was trying to think of an example where if you heard that this particular kind of person was doing that the word Where would seem shocking can you think of one let me teachers are doing it pre-training Preachers whatever I mean is there anybody that would be surprising to hear that they had been engaging in pedophilia? I can't know. I mean the as far as people who were Put in positions of power it seems like the abuse of power almost always includes Children, it's horrible But it's part of the programming and we've talked I won't go into it here but we their antecedents to this so we go way back but the reversal stories

1:22:16 are meant to trigger the trance, and then you'll usually have a school shooting within two days. And I know about 10 of those last year where I saw the reversal story and said something about it, and I said watch out for the shooting in the next few days. And they...and I think I was right every time. I may have missed it once but it could be that I just didn't find whatever they were doing How could you help someone to recognize the pattern? To kind of discern when when a disaster might strike is there a way to? To decode this rhythm well they go in stages I think it's pretty easy to see

1:23:09 The basic, you know inducement of the trance. The trauma and then they're reprogramming those are all pretty easy within your selected area like There'll be weeks where nothing happens And then everyone starts getting nervous Right toward the end of that week it's like oh shit there hasn't been a school shooting or something crazy this week What's it going to be next? and in that week do it and during that next week you can actually trace the flow and they're mixing, they're putting embarrassing stories to the elites in there to get them covered up. Now if there's a great glowing wonderful story about some corporation, they'll just have that sitting out there right in the middle of their dead time so everybody will notice it. All the bad stuff gets crunched in with a bunch of bad stuff. What about the idea another thing we had talked about? The idea

1:24:11 I celebrating some of the attacks that were around the time. They actually had a Batman and Robin running around, they had those orange-haired acrobats that looked just like...they're made up like John Holmes. Acrobats in suits just flipping around. They had a segment of chic line dancers there was The Chic Shooting right around that time. The lighting was capstoned pyramids all the way around What is...? Are they just gloating?

1:24:57 That's really what it felt like to me when I saw it, man. It really did. It was like they were... You know the day that the Gulf oil blew off? They were having a party on top of the rig and they fly off in a helicopter and it blows up like an hour after that. Man! Hitler's birthday! And now with what I knew you know I was like It was Hitler's birthday, and there's and they always do something around Hitler's birthday Now I'm not saying all Brits or Nazis or anything but there's a certain element of the upper class there that does like to control and They like they'll use any technique And some of them were helping the Nazis and we're all for all that did the big industrialist types so

1:25:52 Where did we start? What was that question again? We were talking about symbolism. And I brought up Olympic symbolism, and then you were talking about the rig, the party on the rig... Yeah, the Olympics. Yes! Definitely seemed like... I mean what were they saying?! They were saying we are a country of weird pedophilia magic Terror that's what we are and that's and that's what we are because we're following their model They have controlled our TV industry from the beginning. Yeah, and our movie industry to some degree The Germans are in there too when Italians but in French but it's all just to me It's all just like

1:26:38 we're this little resource playground for the Europeans. At least that's how they view us, I don't think they take us seriously." No and there definitely did seem to be an element of magic to it some type of influencing of the consciousness influencing of the subconscious mind with the parading of these celebrations of disaster of tragedy It's a very odd thing, and I wonder if there is some mechanism to the mind that they understand. It seems like they've got it mapped out pretty well on how to influence the mind. That seems like a strange way to do it though. Use degradation and demoralization techniques So we talked about the demoralizing aspect of something yesterday... what was that? Can't remember what it was but

1:27:37 They flood our country with degradation, and they're the ones who really like to report on it too. If you notice the UK Daily Mail has endless, endless stories about horrible atrocities in America Stuff I wouldn't even print, because it's just going to cause more people to do it. This is how they messed with the Chinese. They brought in drugs, vice, guns, caused skirmishes, controlled the country... They've been doing that a long time and they know how to do it. They've got it down to a science! Yeah, they do

1:28:19 Another area that you talk about, that you seem to be able to give a lot of insight into is just the idea of personal synchronicities. And that's something I've always had a tough time with even like we discussed yesterday. The failure to record yesterday's show was that just my incompetency or was there some driving force in the universe behind Making you know this chain of events go differently, but I always think about You know personal synchronicities and try to find them But it always seemed to be off like I'll wonder what time it is. Oh maybe It's 1111 I look at the clock and it'll be like 438 And I'm like well fuck that's nowhere nowhere near What does that mean or you know? You say the next song comes in you saw 438

1:29:06 Well, just you know I'm just throwing out a number random number but yeah was there significance to that in random number That's the death number. No, I'm just kidding You got me you got me Right it's like its there you gotta take it lightly But there is there seems to be something there what have you seen anything with the 1111 phenomenon? Oh Yeah, there's lots of that It is At the time I started dealing with it, there was only one book out on it and it was all new agey. It was from the 1990's early 1990's this is about 2006...I think And we found so we found this building with 1111 address in Akron through a weird series of events involving men in black with government vans with their license plate 1111

1:30:05 And buildings that look like 1111 from the sky where army internet spooks may live because we saw this. There's the stickers on the cars in the parking lot and a mothman sighting occurs a mile away, and two people die who at the same time that we know? And we were all getting weird phone calls from 000 Anyway, it dawned on me there must be more here and pardon me so I began to realize that 1111 was really an analogy for XX or that the two were both Related. And so like I mentioned Joseph Smith's Masonic aprons Well also looked up George Washington at that time then I realized the 1111 and the xx were both in their prominently displayed So some sort of ancient symbol

1:31:08 And explain that connection to people because you had said and when you look at 1111 it's like two Xs open versus, it's like a revealing of information then when you close the x's or when you close the ones in the numeral It creates an axe. That's like a closed gate to information I thought that was really fascinating because it does seem like people always say when you see 1111 You're supposed You know, that's like a light going on. Like the old symbology of the idea light? Yes, that's similar to the light...to the little tingle you get when you have a synchronicity. But uh yeah that's it! You know I don't know exactly i think one is exoteric and one is esoteric. Anyway inner and outer secrets versus what you say to the public. The normal person versus his doppelganger or his patsy. The meme that truthful and its countermean but not. That's what I mentioned earlier about controlling

1:32:10 using power In fact, there's a Chinese book an ancient Buddhist text that describes the use of power as opening and closing a gate And then look today. You've got an open gate which is 11 it crosses and suddenly it's a closed gate Well, there's a lot of uniforms that have an XX on their XX patches on them. Well, it is a Masonic symbol the custom the compass and square is an xx It's just hidden there they're connected And you know the X axis what forms of swastika? This is broken up into pieces and rearranged An n1 h1 when that came in I realized immediately it was a bogus disease Do you think there's some kind of natural power behind this these symbols or is this just something man has created oh

1:32:57 I don't know. It could be that's... Well, in the Masonic lore you have the two towers, the eleven, that's real old and i don't know if it goes back to the Greeks probably does from the way they did their columns or something but somewhere along the way was adopted into the Masonic realm and somehow George Washington was chosen and I think Joseph Smith was chosen to carry out a specific mission. And i think Washington and Franklin both were working for the British, and they were both donors in the Transylvania Company which was the company that basically owned this area that we're talking about Point Pleasant. So through that mechanism that Washington was paid for his efforts at setting up

1:33:53 the federal government in a way that would create a doppelganger government. We have our supposed country of America, then you have the corporation of America And it actually literally is set up that way in the articles or whatever. Each state exists as its own entity, but then Washington – the very first thing he did in office was create a second set of states that copied the first states and those are all the legal entities that were under the Corporation of America which was still owned by the British.

1:34:30 Yeah, there's a lot of interesting information out there from Aaron Russo's movie and other things about the idea that when you're born your birth certificate is a form of forming a corporation that you represent in the same manner. It's very odd they would need to go through all this put all this energy into making sure everything is documented legally when they are just going to be criminals anyway When their gonna be criminal? Right When you know when the controlling elite is just going to go ahead and do whatever they want, they seem to be really fixated on making sure everything looks neat on paper. Well the reason for the paper is legal contracts between corporate entities or any entities are more important than anything and in fact if you

1:35:24 Like, your insurance. If you name someone as a beneficiary on your insurance and you get divorced from them later that doesn't matter to the insurance company so they're definitely stronger than marriage contracts but it's just a way to mind control everyone into thinking that they have to do what they're told It's oh well its on paper here and heres his contract I know Adam said he had to get going right about now Adam are you still there? Hello, hello. Hey I just wanted to give yeah, I just wanted to send you on your way Andy if you got a few more minutes or A few other questions I had for you But I know Adam had to get going is that okay? Oh yeah Thanks Adam Okay take care of me all right man go lightly and go rightly take it easy Talked to in a couple weeks okay. Thanks man

1:36:21 Andy, I'm really interested in recognizing synchronicities. Because like I said, I try to do it all the time and I really get nothing out of it. How would you advise someone like me who knows about the knowledge of synchronicities but just isn't really being able to tune into them in their own life? Well, I've never been asked that. That's a good question. I don't look for them but they come in cycles They were sort of driving my research. I mean, it really was kind of magical and I don't have any synchronicities now in...I'm studying them as a theme to appear on the media but I don't think those are real synchronicities.

1:37:11 some synchronicities going on. But I don't know how you would create them at all, other than... God, I don't know! I just can't seem to recognize them if the universe is trying to talk to me, i'm fucking missing it that's all I can say Well do you feel like your they may occur when you're taking a chance because to me it felt like a chance What I was doing, it's that the wall of something. What does Peter Moon say? The wall of oppression or something like that where you approach the truth as you approach a truth if there is a lot of collective unconscious pushback against that truth

1:38:04 I think what's happening is you might have a person programming in there that's telling you not to do it. And it makes you afraid, and that raises the tension level. I think the tension level can cause synchronicities... Because The Mothman almost seems like just a more extreme version of this similar phenomenon like a more in-your-face version of some type of outside force, the universe trying to direct you and give you some type of signal, and for those that are missing the 1111s they're getting the Mothman. It's like hey look at this there seems to be an intelligence out there that is interacting with people in that way I would like to induce that if possible

1:38:52 Are you – well, I mean I use the collective unconscious idea as a way to explain it. And I've studied Buddhism and Buddhism has kind of good model for understanding how that all works. There's essentially one mind and one consciousness behind everything manifesting physical reality Or there's intelligence in light waves, or there is intelligence in particles that maybe somehow transmitting between all of us. So we all have a form of telepathy that right now it's very latent because we've been programmed by humans.

1:39:28 But I think there may have been a time when people did a lot of telepathy. They just didn't have to talk as much. I hear that idea too, coming out of the New Age community a lot that things like fluoride in the water even the trauma through these disasters and these school shootings even the nutrients being taken out of food even just the 9-5 job actually the structure of the linear calendar itself Keeps us out of these rhythms and cycles, but a lot of people do suggest that there was a time before all this control manipulation where we did have some innate abilities of telepathy, you know, telekinesis. These kind of mind powers and this more connection to the earth is where they might have came from and that's been stripped away Do you think there's any truth to that? Absolutely I mean i was just thinking about that lately um...I was raised in the TV generation The TVs were in homes from when I was a kid but we didn't watch it very much

1:40:31 Certainly not like people do today, and there wasn't very much programming. Maybe a half an hour or an hour each day your favorite cartoon but they didn't play every day. There just wasn't much programming so some days you wouldn't watch TV at all. So I literally played with things in the yard like rocks and old batteries that my dad would bring home from Carbide. I mean, people...I didn't have toys. I just had a couple of action figures or something but there weren't many action figures it was only GI Joe but i think that's what helped me because I spent all my time outside and you know sleep in the yard and sleep up on the hill You can't do that now with all the rapists out there

1:41:19 That's right. At least that's the official story. John Keel talked about how people used to sleep in Central Park in the summertime, they'd just take a blanket out and sleep in Central Park It is a shame that we've gotten so afraid of each other when the most harassment my life has come from government officials, mainly police. I've been harassed by police far more than I have just a guy out on the street and that could just be my experience but it's interesting that all the fear is supposed to be around us and each other- I have a hard time believing its all coming from Americans because why would we screw up everything thats good about our culture? That's why I tend to think that alot of this is coming from outside now...I guess you can't sleep in parks in Europe or can you? I bet there are some that you can! We're being despoiled

1:42:07 for someone else's economic benefit i don't like that because my family has been here for centuries but i consider this my country and and then it's not for somebody to come over and have a kid here than suddenly say i mean the fact that right wing or anything but and then too you know take a position of power in trying to try start telling me how i'm supposed to live my life Well, right. But do you really think the elite have any allegiance to any country? They just seem to be power-hungry narcissists who don't really... they're psychopaths! They don't really seem to be doing things for any kind of national pride

1:42:44 Yeah, I think you're right. But there's some concern for their own backyard. They have their gated communities in the states so they don't really have to worry about even what happens in their own area but... ...I think they are probably more prone to go haywire into somebody else's property. You know what I mean? And I think that you're right it mitigates it And I think you might see a trend where you've got less pollution around large concentrations of wealthy people living. They've always tried to get you to use horrible chemicals on your dogs or your plants,

1:43:30 And they're, you know... My grandfather sold seeds and he would be I'm sure he's rolling over in his grave when he hears about these Terminator seeds that my parents came up with. So it's just the same people It's the same people that rose to power and fueled the Nazi regime They're controlling our healthcare industry now Because they put all the Nazi fly capital into the pharmaceuticals and they've corrupted doctors in the hospitals and The health insurance industry, and they're all on each other's boards. And this is how their milking every last Spare dime that we have yeah it seems like even at at the high levels of field of medicine Education is more of indoctrination It's more instead of being hands-on and seeing how things work you're just told how things work

1:44:26 And then you're plugged right into the system where they give you the drugs and you're convinced that drugs are doing help because, you know, you've been told that. You got your degree! You couldn't be wrong if you got your goddamn degree and graduated top of your class so there must be something to it I call that the oil companies, the oil company doctors. The doctors work for oil companies most of them now they've been thoroughly indoctrinated in that it hasn't always been that way either took them a long time like my partner Lisa, her dad was a doctor. He was from the old school he believed drugs were just to be used for specific thing and temporarily only all about learning how to live healthily and all that so what the oil people did is Rockefeller infiltrated all of medical...He created medical boards

1:45:26 He manipulated municipal life unbelievably through municipal boards and doctor boards and education boards, sanitation boards. And it took... because we had an actual tradition here going back centuries that melded over after the British took over. It was still in there, still sort of embedded in the way we did things. They had to get rid of that. They took them 100 years of constant hammering and programming and manipulating the medical boards to get us where we're at today, where the typical doctor prescribes you antidepressants without even giving you a physical examination. Yeah And you are hooked for life They'll try to talk you into it for life and they will milk every last time they can Touche One thing I wanted to mention to you...I don't know if you saw this story

1:46:22 that I'm going to address, but there seems to be a theme when a big disaster happens that the military is on a training op. That is very similar to what's really happening. That theme seems to be pretty widespread 9-11 and happened well if you didn't see the story a little while ago a military training exercise right where I live here in San Diego and the story made a bit of a splash but they were doing training exercises defending against hordes of zombies. Did you see that at all? Yeah, I thought it was very strange that one they would even be doing such a training outman to the fact that it made on the news for a couple of days something we've discussed is that uh... perhaps that's in the media will just pop out anything they want what what day was that i'm not sure today there was a couple of maybe maybe two months ago i wanna say go back and look at what happened within a couple days after that because that sounds like reversal story

1:47:21 I didn't bother to check it out. It could have been right before Aurora for all, for all I remember you know? Yeah! Check that out because uh... That sounds like a bogus thought but i don't think they did that But they wanted you to think they did Because that'll blow your mind for a minute-for a few moments Now they have lots of stories like that coming out of the military. Like, they're teaching their soldiers to meditate by next year one million soldiers will have reached some form of enlightenment and that's a you know come on reversal story it doesn't sound right there was one the other day a planet that spins backwards no a star! A star system that spins backwards

1:48:06 And the drawing of it was an XX. Really? They put up and it looked just like the Indian head test pattern, which is an XX, which they would have on TV all night long when I was a kid. That standby screen? Huh? It's like that uh...standby screen Yeah if you turn it on in the middle of the night you'd go into a trance probably. And then start hearing UFOs coming There was all kinds of stuff with the TVs back then. People getting messages on their TV being beamed from the saucers They were trying out all kinds of things on people That's also interesting as it seems like a lot of the things that we're talking about and a lot of the strange weirdness came out of the 60s, 70s I mean...I feel like its kind of died down in my lifetime from 85 on

1:48:58 There's obviously still attacks and shootings, but a lot of the really weird paranormal stuff seems to have... We seem to always be talking about the past instead of current events. Well I don't know about that there is some bunch of strange stuff that happened in last 10 years and And uh.. I've documented as much of it as i can which the book I sent you is fairly short compared to other ones they're about One of them's 600 pages. And it's just example, I just documented everything. And because I was doing that and I was really putting an effort into it, It was nerve-wracking and it did mess up my marriage or you know...it gave an excuse to my ex that I was doing this but you see I had had that premonition. After 9-1-1, I really had no choice but investigated

1:49:56 Because here's a clear example to me that I know is true, where I saw into the future. And so by following that, I think it triggered the synchronicities off. So if you've got something like that, which you feel like you should do to really honestly and truly be who you want to be, you might find if they'll start happening but maybe you're doing that already? I don't know. Yeah, I mean... It is tough to know where an influence comes from I mean, do you feel like you're right in the center of your passion? Yes. Uh...I do but at the same time i'm still stuck in a 9-5 corporate soulless job that is really interfering and these two things are really butting heads with each other It's tough because you have to be able to pay the rent

1:50:48 Yes, I worked at jobs until the mid-90s and then when i started actually being self-employed it was very stressful and it took years to get over. And I really realized then how programmed I had been to follow orders because when you're self-employed suddenly all that there's no structure yes uh but I think that maybe does...I think you're right it probably would create more synchronicities or maybe some are coming to you because of the regimentation that you face and How would you advise? someone who sees all the corruption and sees the problems and the debt slavery and the media hypnosis And it's just stuck in a low-paying corporate job. Just feels trapped how can a person find personal freedom and happiness without going homeless

1:51:43 Oh man, it depends on whether or not you can give yourself a lump of time. If you can figure out some way to not have to pay for things for two or three months where you can start something else and then you have to start generating something. I found that its been rewarding though what I do is work on houses one of my side jobs or day jobs is fixing stuff. And so, like I just finished an addition that I built on someone's house all by myself." That's awesome! That's a great life skill

1:52:24 But it took a while of working for someone else, at least. So what I did was I became a subcontractor and found two or three different people that could give me work every now and then. A lot of it was earthquake stuff because nobody wanted to do it. But it was profitable, so I made a lot of money during earthquake retrofitting. So I just figured out how to do it and so whatever it is wherever there's like an opportunity...I mean if right now I'd start building drones! I'd learn how to build drones. You would just-if you can't beat them join them huh? Yeah small business and entrepreneurship is the only thing that's going to save us because big corporations are gonna crunch out every penny and they're gonna..there's just no

1:53:12 They're using computers to crunch out every penny you have. They will figure it out, and they don't want small business. They don't want competition and as soon as you get a good product or idea or software something they'll buy you out. They'll just come in and take it from you so beware of that but set it up so that you end up making some money on them. And that's one way to fight the machine? Well that's how they reward their own people The spooks that are in the software stuff get contracts. They supposedly leave the spookdom and they go start a business

1:53:54 And then the government buys – gives them contracts, and then they get bought up by Northrop or Mark Marietta later. And they may end up making a shitload of money, but that's a rigged game in their favor. But you can also do that at your own level and still do well because they're not meeting everyone's needs. They've got a big computerized model of how they're going to milk our money, but they don't really have a plan for meeting all of our needs. So we can still meet each other's needs at the local level." That's a great point! Well hey I wonder...I've taken up a lot of your time when i start wrapping it up but I guess what I would ask you is do you think they say that lies and

1:54:37 Age of Enlightenment will become more transparent, and I suppose it's possible that an upcoming event would be so poorly staged that it just destroys any trust people have in their leaders. But do you think we'll ever break out of this control paradigm on a massive scale or will it just be on individual level? Well there are certain pressures inherent having larger and larger populations I don't see them, the leaders changing their tactics unless they make them even more oppressive as more people get created. And that really is the only power we have is our numbers Right and you are right! You're asking the big question Is there a way to fight this?

1:55:29 I like the temporary autonomous zone idea. That's where you've got to start, and I just described it basically. You've got to carve out your own little zone… And you'll really feel better about everything. I mean, it is...I think back to some of the situations that I was in and I can't believe—I know they're still there and I know they're still as stupid as they ever were, still as brainwashed but I don't have to deal with them. So it gives me hope that there's some spaces out here where you can live a creative life. Right! Well hey, you can build houses if you're ready to set up a city let's do this thing!

1:56:13 But is there anything else you are working on Andy before I let you go? Anything your coming out with soon. The Mothman Squeaks is coming out soon, that's the next book after the Shrieks book and I do recommend it for all of the details that I can't remember when I'm talking on the radio It's amazing stuff! I don't...I do think if you jump in there and you try to wrestle with it, the synchronicities happen and this stuff comes. But then when you don't want to and you're building a house or something it doesn't happen. And that's fine I don't need it all the time It really will drive you to the edge especially if like your partner leaves and this happens and that happens...it has driven some people crazy. Understandable

1:57:05 So I've always taken it lightly. Go lightly, go rightly! Don't get too worked up about all the crazy stories about how the reptilians are massing underneath this mountain in France and they're coming to your house tomorrow. in a special place where people are close to the earth and they're humble, and they have great sense of humor. And they make fun of the rich, that's how they get by. They figure out their own ways of navigating. Humor is definitely good medicine for people. 100% agree

1:57:51 There's no better way to really fight them, I think than humor. They start to believe they're stuffy in the country club class and their beliefs that they are superior because they are a doctor or lawyer or whatever and making fun of them is the best way to go I 100% agree. That is kind of the THC philosophy, it's great to talk about it and get some real knowledge and education from people but at the end of day what are you going to do? So just laugh about it Well, you can actually affect the public opinion this way. Someone who's in the middle of their programming at a corporation will laugh at what you say and it's one more little step back that they can take and maybe they keep taking steps back and back and then suddenly... The stuffies! You know there are great movies out there comedy movies where the stuffy person who is trying to control everyone ends up with pie in his face at the end of the movie That's what we want

1:58:57 That's what we're going for. Well, hey Andy thanks a lot! I know i've just got got keyed in on the Mothy Talk Facebook group, but there are a lot of heavy hitters there. Adam Goritely and myself are both in that group with you A lot of good information comes out of that group I've just started looking at it the past few days But anyone who wants to be somewhat connected to the ongoing education Of The Conspiratorial should really check that out If you want to check that out, and you can't find me on Facebook if you go to Mothy Talk and ask To be a member someone will contact you but it won't be me because Facebook is censoring me like you wouldn't believe they I Don't know that. They won't let back in add friends. I if I message someone. I don't know they tell me that I don't know this person they're controlling my friendships on Facebook

1:59:56 It's bullshit. I thought people were paranoid when they said that but honestly, I have experienced some of that recently and when i put up certain pictures they come across incredibly incredibly pixelated and I've been doing Facebook for as long as Facebook has been happening for people who aren't in college you know only recently is it starting to happen and makes me raise my eyebrow You gotta, we gotta fight them with their own tools. And unfortunately those tools are under their control at times It'll probably be Ted Torbett who contacts you he's my I'm making him my administrator first administrator so Right on He's on the Sense of Truth show Yes a great show A great show I've seen some of your interviews on there but

2:00:44 Andy, that just about does it for our time here. It's been a real wild ride I've had a blast we've kind of jumped all over the place. I feel like your work is so diverse and interesting we really only scratched the surface of it but yeah thanks for being here thanks for being here twice Yeah, I look forward to actually seeing if this makes it to the internet. The chances are good my man! Alright great thanks for having me Of course have a good day man And another one bites the dust, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for being here! Great talk with Andy Colvin and my co-host Adam Gourailly who unfortunately did have to jet a little bit early after the second attempt at recording the show but I am so glad that Adam has decided to join The Higher Side Chats

2:01:35 He's introduced me to a lot of new people in the conspiracy community. I've always been familiar with the David Ikes, the Michael Tesarions, listened to a lot of Coast 2 Coast and of course Alex Jones but he's been schooling me on a whole new group of researchers that all seem pretty tight-knit and it's pretty fucking refreshing so...I am very happy about that You can check out more stuff from Adam at adamgoratley.com and you can check out all Andy Kovan's books on Mothman, Mothman Photographer 1, 2 & 3 as well as Mothman Speaks, Mothman Shrieks and soon to be Mothman Squeaks all available on Amazon in both Kindle and traditional book formats

2:02:18 Check out my amazing conspiracy and paranormal themed t-shirts at conspiratees.net Maybe I'll work on a Mothman design now after all this, seems like it could be pretty awesome Please share the show with your people All the share links you could ever need are conveniently located At the end of every post at thehighersidechats.com Donate a couple bucks if you can But more importantly review the show on whatever platform You're listening on It helps us improve our reach and climb the ranks In fact, some dickhead gave THC a poor iTunes review because he thinks I've been deleting his attempts at reviewing the show and that is not even fucking possible on iTunes for me to delete reviews.

2:02:57 So you people are just gonna have to help me average out that score. Deal? Deal I love you guys and i'll see you again on the sabbath Have a good week and try not to get brainwashed into opening fire in any crowds because it will ruin your life And it's just not cool man, okay We're out of here Here's a song by Adam go rightly A trippy psychedelic meditation track called lost in time Peace be with you I