THC 23: Pat Chouinard | Ancient Civilizations, Alien Intervention, & The Terran Race

03:01 Thanks so much for paying attention to my bullshit, you know I really appreciate it and where you can go back and listen to older podcasts. I have friends of mine on I have local comics here in San Diego even a couple members of Jeff's death squad Joe Diaz and Ari Shaffir been on the show And I'm not saying comics will never be on it again but I really am going hard with just trying to talk to our authors and lecturers and researchers about Because that's more interesting for me to listen to there's a lot of comedy shows out there A lot of comedy shows about weed out there. A lot of comedy shows where people just bullshit about nothing So I'd rather be a show that's more in line with say coast-to-coast or red ice radio, or Project Camelot things that I like and

03:48 And I feel like those people have more to say and it rings more true to me. Yeah, I'm gonna stop wasting your time so thanks pimps Here's the new podcast with another pimp and provocateur himself Patrick Shannard See the USA in your America is asking you to come drive you Through the USA, America's the greatest land of all. On a highway or road along a levee Performance is sweeter Nothing can beat her Life is completer in a So make a date today to see the USA See it in your dreams

04:55 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. But what 30 and I do is a different kind of fun for a new era of wildly frustrating offer and fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlson on The Hireside Chats Hello higher side chatters today. We're going hard with patching art a lifetime researcher in archaeology lost civilizations Atlantis and alternatives the conventional story of man's origin You've heard him on coast to coast twice this year already and his new book forgotten worlds just released on Amazon and forgotten Dash world calm he keeps us pimp hands strong, and he's proud of it pad my man Thanks for being here Hey, how you doing? I'm doing well man um hey

05:54 So paint a picture for us. When did you start digging in the dirt and what was it that caused you to veer away from the conventional ideas in the field? Well, basically I've always been interested in archaeology and science and oceanography and astronomy and all that good stuff but about 10 years ago I was board director for the Central Gulf Coast Archaeological Society and basically, uh...I was tired of it. You know? It was just a very boring and, uh.... Really a kind of resentful type atmosphere to anything new or unconventional or unconservative. They're very conservative archaeologists and I was working with a number of university professors, starting the New Archaeology Review which was my magazine

06:46 These guys, they were all for me as long as... you know far as having a platform that was consistent with their theories. But the minute I started to deviate from those ideas when I started reading books like Graham Hancock's Underworld and Graham Hancock's fingerprints of the gods and the works of robert schock in different people that nature if you will uh... i really started to draw their attention away from me and they really started to resent me and they didn't want to deal with me anymore so I say to hell with them, go to your universities teach your bullshit whatever you have

07:30 You know, and I was willing to take the risk and go into something new. And then I started deviating from that. I really started to research more in depth the history of mankind. And I started applying that to a theory that I had when I was growing up about the Terran race which was a human race united and strong, and forever dedicated to space exploration. Things that were inspired by my research into science fiction and things of that nature. Some of the work of Arthur T. Clark and D. Ron Berry and others of that nature some of the great science fiction minds who even though they were writing fiction really had the grasp on what our destiny in space was

08:16 And that was my main goal, to proliferate that type of viewpoint. And I figured through archaeology and mythology and ancient mysteries, I'm creating a consciousness for the Terran race A new viewpoint which will endure for generations to come. And I want to put that down...I want to put forth a legacy For the Terran race, for our future, for our children and our children's children Right on. I've heard you mention the Terran race before, and I've heard you mention the Terran society that you were trying to start up? What is that? Is it something to try to unify humanity? Yeah yeah! The Terran nation...I believe

08:59 Together, we can do anything we choose to do. That we are united and strong if we're together. Together we are unstoppable divided were worth nothing and all these through unity as common purpose and the unification of Terra is people when we find true satisfaction with ourselves in our future Okay, I mean how do you...I agree but how do you think you'd do that? Do you think you can do that in a capitalistic society? Well it has nothing to do with capitalism. I mean capitalism is compatible with that idea But how do you get people to work together? Well the thing is You have to have a strong ideal and that idea must permeate through everything that you do very much like how religion in the Middle Ages transformed

09:53 European society. Now, it did for the wrong reasons and it did in a very negative format. A very negative way obviously witch burnings and massacres... It was indicative of contagious. Exactly! But if it would use in a positive manner there was strength purpose that would infuse into the masses there would be a new consciousness and this new consciousness would permeate throughout the whole world. And that's my goal is to create a consciousness, and that's much better than trying to create a government within

10:38 then solely try to institute a, like an authoritarian regime that would try to institute such a unity. That would not work. History has proven that those types of governments do not last At the same time we've been proving that a government gone awry with no sense or purpose...that doesn't work either So we need a system in which Capitalism, yeah sure it'll go fine with it. There should be no problem All capitalism is an economic system all it is a way to create production and to create goods and services It's the economic system that's all this. It's not a way of life. It's not a religion so it definitely compatible with anything I put forth

11:33 I mean that's fair but some people say that certain countries are put against each other to via war or other means to stimulate economies and if we could really bypass that. For example, I don't know if you've heard of the Venus Project or resource-based economy but those are economic structures as well but they seem to fit in better with a unified humanity They seem to put that idea forward more. I don't know if you, like what is your philosophy with that? I don't want to discount anything on free enterprise because that's very dear to a lot of people and if you come forth, you gotta understand this way, so I came back off the force tomorrow and got up there in front of lots of people said I'm going to put new economic systems and get rid of the free enterprise system forever!

12:27 Oh, the brains would fall out. You'd have lots of people coming down on you and they're going to say he's a communist, he's a socialist, he's an Obama lover... whatever they want to call me! So it's not going to work that way. You have to be middle ground when you deal with things which are very True to people. That's why you have to accommodate certain things which you don't really want to accommodate, but if you're going to compromise, you have to be diplomatic about it and you have to compromise in a way that will bring in people and not alienate them. You kind of see what I'm saying? Yeah, I gotcha. That's fair. Well when it comes to these ancient stories...

13:14 I guess they'd be inconsistencies from what conventional history tells us. In the conspiracy world, you've got a widely accepted belief that there is a group of people, small groups that knows the true history and has systematically stamped out other groups historical records and writings so they can kind of rewrite history to best suit their biggest brainwashing program at the time which you mentioned was Christianity. But from your research do you see any evidence that you know, these new discoveries that contradict traditional models are out there and do you think that the resistance to accept that is part of that conditioning? Or do you think it's just people are afraid of change. Do you think is that simple or more... It isn't that simple I mean if look at any type

14:05 You look at history and it is replete with examples of people who are resistant to change. But you see, that creates more than just resistance. It creates a core of resistance and that core of resistance becomes in itself its own conspiracy. And because of that begins to develop tentacles. And these tentacles go into every facet of government and society and religion, and they are the ones that are creating a conspiracy because they're resistant to that change. They don't want to see their beloved ideals—their religion, their politics—too

14:46 to be destroyed. I don't think that there's one small specific group out there that is plotting, you know, to overthrow any form of change. I don't believe in the idea of the Illuminati. I don't believe in the idea of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, which in the early 20th century was a big thing and Nazi Germany and so forth and so on but what I do think is that this resistance is developing its own conspiracy in it's own right And that something which needs to be fought It's called The Paradigm

15:28 And this paradigm must be eliminated at whatever cost because it is destroying a possible future which could really change and alter the destiny of mankind. And they're just totally undermining that possibility to their resistance to this new truth that's arising with many people all around the world, this new awareness and this new desire to see change put forth. Well that's where it gets difficult to know exactly who and what to believe because we know

16:07 the government has lied to us. So that's an automatic, so then you get like in terms of human history let's say they think it is only so many thousand years old and then you got other people who say they see water erosion marks on the Sphinx and then they see underground ruins or not underground well underground too but underwater ruins like the Graham Hancock book I believe both of that. Well how deep does it go? Because then you've got people like Andy Visagio who's going around giving lectures saying he is involved in jump room programs to Mars and it's like, you know you can't believe the government but it opens up Pandora's box open all these things and

16:50 I'm hoping you can help me cut through some of that, at least in terms of human history. Sure sure. As far as what you would consider unusual claims that challenge the paradigm and then really insane ideas like Bigfoot is living in the White House Alright, you would call really ingenious ideas like the like Rob Schalk's evaluation of the Sphinx John Anthony West Evaluation of ancient Europe that is how you age in Egypt rather That is very significant But yeah when you get into the thing where he were you tell me I called up on coast to coast as I just came from The other side of the moon right

17:28 Well, maybe. I mean anything is possible but you know you turn your back and you're kind of laughing so... Right right right You know what you would call the insane ideas and then the really noble attempts to establish a new paradigm And you really have to sift through that but thats where science comes in Even if science is diluted to point where it's not rigid It's not full of skeptics who just debunk everything that comes along. But if you can keep a balance in the process of science, then you have something significant because science is self-correcting philosophy. If you open the doors properly then you have system where if it doesn't amount to evidence than that just goes to the wayside but

18:23 The insidious thing with the paradigm is you can have that evidence and you can have that proof, but it's not good enough. They still want to debunk it regardless and they wanna take their own ideas and they wanna grasp onto it and distort it and put in a point where it doesn't have any validity whatsoever even though it might have had that validity. Well what do you think is the most damning evidence that you've seen that really does create, like it creates a situation where it really can't be denied and we really have to look at it. And we can't turn the other cheek in terms of our origin stories I mean what is the most damning evidence? The world is replete with such examples and let me just go over a few of them Let's do it! So first one is Gobekli Tepe are you familiar with that site? I've heard about it yeah Alright Now describe for people For past

19:23 300 years, the story has been that ancient Sumer has been the original civilization. Before Mesopotamia, there was no significant form of civilization or advancement or massive structures. But then all the sudden around the mid-20th century we were starting to discover evidence that this is not the case. We find Jericho which dates back to 9000 BCE We have Catalhoyuk in Turkey, which dates back to about that same time. We have several other sites in Turkey that date back well before that period but when we discovered Gobekli Tepei, we have a structure which dates back to 12000 BCE you know?

20:21 That's old. That's 14,000 years ago and according to mainstream archaeologists there should not have been any form of massive structures or architecture 14,000 years ago instead it would have been people hustling in caves And even though the Archelots community is not against it, they openly admit and research and document that Gobekli Tepeh is a verifiable fact. I mean, it's right there for you! And they know how old it is so they basically agree on that point

20:59 But at the same time, if you read any of their textbooks from high school or college or even elementary school they still teach the kids that the world as a civilization is no earlier than 3500 BC and it's located in ancient Sumer. No mention in these textbooks of Gobekli Tepe, of Jericho, of any of these other sites exist outside of the original mainstream paradigm which was started hundreds of years ago. Well, tell me about this lost set of ruins that's speculated to be millions of years old off the coast of Scotland and Norway? Yeah! That is fascinating as it is...

21:44 There is a site off the coast of Scotland in Norway which is submerged on the ocean bottom. It dates back to 75 million years and that is a verifiable fact. Now when you look at that, do you see things that could not be natural formations? Well, that's the thing. It hasn't been studied well enough quite yet to come to that conclusion there are anomalies but there is no definite conclusion yet whether it is anything unnatural but the fact

22:23 that structure exists can only bring up possibilities in one's mind about what on earth could exist down there if we were to go and do some type of submariner excavations of the site. Now is that really possible right now with our present technology? You see, the fact is all way at the ocean bottom of the North Sea but if you look at it and see valleys and mountains and river systems, you can only wonder Is this possibly some type of civilization? Now, you have to look at it from Michael Kramlose's perspective. He always says that humanity is more than just a couple million years old. Its existence and its civilization goes back several million years

23:19 Now, if that's the case then it makes it possible—if in fact what he is saying is possible or true—that this structure could have once contained a human civilization. Sure. Now what makes him say that? That it's millions of years old? Well, he didn't say the site was millions of years old. He said humanity is millions of years old. Right! But what makes him think that? He says that because he believes from examining such sources as the Sanskrit writings of India from evidence that he finds in the fossil record of anatomical modern humans dating back to 60 million BC or even greater, there's much

24:11 physical evidence in the archaeological record to assume that. Now these are anomalies, but nevertheless they have been confirmed and if you read his book Forbidden Archaeology it says it right there that in fact you know your reading is a brilliant book and its filled with page after page after page of lists and cataloging of anomalies of ancient prehistoric remains of humans to date back more so than they were supposed to exist originally, which is around the 5 million BC mark, BCE mark. It goes back 65 million years 600 million years even greater. Let's talk about the methods I mean is carbon 14 dating is the only thing I've ever heard about as far as things that you know and water erosion that's another method of determining age but how reliable is carbon-14 date? And I've heard that it's not quite as reliable people once thought it was

25:13 Well, that is an idea propagated by the Christian creationists who are unsatisfied with the conclusions put forth by evolutionists. Yeah God planted fossils to fuck with us? Yeah So there's no one credible that thinks that carbon-14 dating isn't reliable That's pretty much it's it's pretty much standard that that's the method that's trusted yeah exactly gotcha so Is it carbon dating that is dating some of these things so far back? It's based on carbon-14 dating and sedimentation layers that was used to date the soil.

25:58 determine the age of these ancient modern anatomical modern humans that dated back 65 million years and a dinosaur time exactly and that's what the main thing about it so how is conventional science able to deny this i will believe her in the antiquity of the human race at the same time I'm not so much into Crano's idea of pure energy devolving into base matter and its spiritual aspect, the anti-evolutionary aspect. I definitely believe in a sense an evolution of the human race but I just think we should look back much farther than what was originally thought. So how is conventional science able to deny that dating on some of these structures

26:50 They don't even approach it. They just, it's off the table they just turn a blind eye. Off the table? They don't even want to know I mean there are plenty of sites in Peru also you know not necessarily date wise but just structurally there so intense that would be hard to build for people at that age You got the Machu Picchu is that Machu Picchu? The ancient aliens talk about all the time Yeah I think he was calling uh... palma who i think it's called it in a right now you have a lot of people yeah i think that one of the way i would say oh he did not mean they stopped on the pool cooler who will be more than a year ago and i was happy to have a look at their own it seems pretty crazy that we'd be able to build out about any type of period hardware you know like they apparently just built with our are coming up by period i think that

27:49 I think the myths that we have grown up on about giants and gods, i don't believe they're misconstrued extraterrestrial encounters at all. I think they are in fact remnants of a very ancient memory of real gods and real giants that once inhabited the Earth, evolved on this planet over billions of years. I mean our planet you got to think about it is four billion years old in that time there's plenty of time for a advanced race to evolve why just because

28:29 this is all we know so far about human evolution, why does that preclude any other possibilities? And even right now as I'm saying it's just a possibility and I've taken that possibility and I've speculated on it. But I admit its mere speculation at this point there isn't a whole lot of proof other than the mythological preponderance of the fact that we have About that in our ancient mythology that it must mean something beyond just people sitting down and making up stories right well now I did see a Giant skeleton that was going around on the internet pictures of it from Peru or digging Peru. I believe but then I heard that was considered a hoax Here we go back to our Conspiracy theory all right yeah, this is where I feel at home Okay great

29:22 How do we know that the picture which was faked is in itself part of that conspiracy? How do we know that the reports themselves could be verified and it's just a matter of people finding them, they don't want the word to get out. They're fabricating these these hoaxes, these fake pictures to cause misinformation. Now that's not the first time the government on this planet would do something of that nature. Not at all! So why do we have to immediately assume there is nothing to these reports?

30:03 I mean, a lot of people claim to have seen it and there's been a lot of mysterious activities in those deserts in India and Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia which were the main sites that these things were discovered in. Right! Maybe thats why our military is over there? Yeah exactly! Our military is over there... Why not?! What would exclude the possibility its all part of some conspiracy to begin with It's tough to know. It is tough to know, but you have at least talk about it. You have to bring that possibility up and that comes from what I've done in Clash of the Giants which is my next book coming after Forgotten Worlds The one after that is Grasp of Dragons which is a book which looks at the legends and myths of dragons

31:00 They are everywhere and like almost every young ancient culture. We're told these cultures didn't communicate as some sort of dragon myth they've shattered the dreams of everybody from From Scandinavia to India to China in into the new world so you know Now is that a dinosaur? Is that's a manifestation of I personally did something else Okay, what do you use who a dragon than it is to a dinosaur? Well, are we talking fire-breathing dragons? Are we talking flying dragons? Exactly! Pterodactyls that breathe fire. What makes you think that dragons are real outside of the idea that they weren't all these myths which is a huge mystery in itself but is there any evidence to support the idea that we lived at a time of dragons

31:54 Well, historical references. I mean there are numerous historical references all through the ancient accounts all the way from Herodotus to Marco Polo to...I mean historical references are replete and then you have in medieval Europe numerous historical accounts of dragons being seen throughout there now well i basically think that dragons are not really dinosaurs, they're not part of the traditional dinosaur species. I think they're related to dinosaurs and I think they are a separate species, a separate line. Now there were a group of dragon-like creatures that existed prior

32:42 emergence of dinosaurs in the age before that, which is I believe was a Triassic period. A Triassic epoch of prehistory and through the mass extinction which wiped out most of these large reptiles Now, the interesting thing is that I think these creatures these dragons survive that period and survived the mass extinction of of 65 million BCE, as I usually use the term. And survived that mass extinction and in fact continued onward through the historical period. Now Carol Fontaine from Andover University she

33:38 She's a professor of Hebrew scriptures and she made the idea, presented the idea that it is a possibility that giants, excuse me, dragons were real. but they were so prized for their bodies and their medicinal purposes, and their wealth. Much in the same way we grow many other creatures to extinction for their pelts and their feathers...

34:14 You know, we drove these creatures to extinction because when you look at the historical record ever since there was a reference to a dragon There's reference to a human being seeking it out and trying to destroy it At least in the Western sense right and that is true. But if these creatures You know survived a lot longer than dinosaurs Why aren't we finding? bear remains We may have, and just haven't identified them as dragons yet. I mean there's many... There has been many examples of fossils that have been found that haven't been identified immediately as a specific animal but have been assumed to be a different animal And then over time were discovered to belong to entirely different animals Sure now that is true

35:10 Now what about the dating? Could they not date those bones and find out... They would date them around the same time period as the dinosaurs, most of them anyhow. The fossilized, they would come around from the same time period. Unless of course they were from a period say from the age of mammals in which you know you would have an example you know they would be dated to the age of mammals but if they were found and they were found in a strata that was say from the Cretaceous Period or Jurassic Period or Triassic Period

35:47 There would be no telling or differentiation from them and some other species of dinosaur. Okay, now have we ever found human remains that old? Yes we have! We have?! We Have!! Where was that at? Is that common knowledge because it doesn't seem... Oh yeah, you just go and take out forbidden archaeology. In fact I think its like on page 225 of Forbidden Archaeology they have a uh.. They have more than one example of anatomical modern humans being found that old Wow Yeah So walk us through because we're all over the map here Walk us through what you think The history of man looks like

36:32 Okay, basically I think... Are there many rises and falls? Technology-wise. The whole history of mankind has been punctuated by rises and falls, mass extinctions periods of great civilization and sophistication, and in periods of great darkness and less technology. And it takes a long time to build up to get back to that technology. This is said again...you have to understand where I'm coming from. I am very much a mythologist more so than an archaeologist but there are examples in the Kali Yugas of ancient India

37:16 in the popular Mayan calendar, which at the end of this year you have the calendar of Brosus a 6th century BC Babylonian priest who wrote The History of Mankind dating back 100 thousand years. So you have a large rich treasure trove of beliefs and ideas which state that mankind, and indeed civilization itself is part of a massive roller coaster of history going with peaks in valleys up and down over long periods of time rather than just one you know caveman at the bottom and then straight line graph with mankind at the top as the pinnacle evolutionary success. You have to look from a cyclical

38:16 standpoint, and that's a very ancient standpoint. We lost that sense of cyclical history over a period of time and that's basically how I think the whole rest of human history is structured on a cyclical level. Right. category of people who thought the Earth was the center of the universe and this and that, is also the same thought that we are the first and only rise of man. It's kind of the same thing. So I totally understand, totally accept there could have been many other rises and falls When I connect that to the conspiracy, if we had a huge cataclysm and 95% of the population was wiped out who would survive? It would probably be those elites that have the resources to protect themselves in that time. And if they were to rebuild the planet they could warp

39:12 any current history stories or anything and raise their own children to believe whatever they wanted them to, and they could restructure society as they saw fit. So when you look at some of these old writings on how they've kind of been altered through the translation, it's kind of funny because I could see the secular nature of that happening. Well it's not only that we know already from right out of the mouth of the babes so to speak out of the mouth of mainstream archaeologists and mainstream anthropologists from their perspective, but this has already happened and been recorded in our genetics. About 100 thousand years ago there was a cataclysm on Earth that wiped out nearly every human being on the planet save about 100 to 50 people. Now the way we know this is it's what's called a bottleneck and to explain this basically

40:12 Neanderthals had a genetic diversity level of about 13%, the highest among all hominids. Now, chimpanzees have about an 11% diversity level Now we have about a 1%. That means that every difference that we see on this planet racially, ethnically is one percent of that general diversity level. Now originally we had much higher diversity level but because we were trimmed down to such an extent We went through a period in which

40:54 Right. So many of those genetic codes survived, but in the end we only had a much smaller amount of diversity and that decrease in diversity is a lasting testament to the fact that there was a great cataclysm that just about wiped out the whole human race and then we started again about 100 thousand years ago Right on. Yeah, think about how great a diversity if you think of all the genetic differences are in 1% now I mean think about 13%. You know you could be talking about giants then

41:32 Yeah, exactly. And you know someone I was trying to interview with Mark Murphy yesterday and he was commenting the fact that in ancient Indian depictions of India many of these gods had blue skin and really that's not too far from the truth we had no idea what color all varieties of skin tones there were back then I mean for all we know there could be purple with pink polka dots. Right, you know it's just a state that we don't know what all there was back then. You know? It could have been individuals with hair over their bodies as there are in some circumstances today. Well how do you feel about

42:23 So you think instead of the alien theory, you think that there was just such crazy biodiversity here on the planet with different races of hominids that were natural to Earth. Yeah. Are they at different technology levels? Are they interacting with each other? Different technology levels, and why not? Why not? I mean look at our own civilization there are examples of people on this planet who still live extremely primitive lives, truly primitive levels of existence And you have New York City which is probably the pinnacle technological sophistication on this planet So we have already in our own societies enormous

43:04 changes and alterations over the geography of the world with different levels of technology. So it would not be too far from the truth to say that, you know, at one time there was very advanced beings on this planet that had great levels of technological sophistication and there were other people who had rather primitive levels of sophistication. And it was those rather primitive people who maybe we descended from, and brought back tales of those peoples, those more sophisticated

43:40 lands and more sophisticated civilizations and beings, he called them gods. Called them giants And created the myth of Atlantis and so forth and so on But I do believe that...I do believe in UFOs. I do believe in ancient aliens I believe that ancient aliens did in fact contact us. I think they had a play in how how the destiny of the world unfolded. But I don't believe they were coming to this planet and imbuing our civilization with civilization! I don't believe that it gave us technology, I think there was already plenty of technology already on this planet when they arrived They just merely interacted with existing hierarchies that already existed on this planet. Okay... What do you think of Atlantis?

44:36 What do you think Atlantis was? There were many lost civilizations, and many cultures in Atlantis like structures and cultures and civilization. I think that Atlantis is not a unique phenomenon. It existed on the global scale in many areas And it's also a possibility I have to admit, that there was in fact a metaphor for a much greater civilization that once existed globally on this planet and was all wiped out in the Great Cataclysm. Probably the Great Flood. Well now where is the first mentionings of Atlantis? What exactly are they saying about it? How do we determine

45:25 that it's not a myth or that is not fiction. There has got to be something to it when you think about the fact that this is not just Plato's account, and skeptics like to hammer on the fact that it was just Plato who mentioned it. They'll say that, they'll say it was just Plato who described it there are no other sources of no other corroborating sources about Atlantis but if you look at my book, if you read by book Forgotten World contains hundreds of examples of ancient accounts that date back 10,000 years in the most ancient oral traditions.

46:08 of Atlantis-like civilizations, whether it is Boroto in the Fijian Islands or whether it's Heleki and the ancient Greece. Or whether it's you know Isa the North Atlantic or Seoul, or any of those other civilizations that have been rumored to exist. Lemuria is another perfect example there. There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of a lost civilization destroyed by a flood or other cataclysm and it predominates through nearly every culture on the planet. Every culture on the planet has at least one

46:51 reference to a lost civilization that was destroyed in the Great Cataclysm. Our own Bible has the perfect example of that, there was an antediluvian civilization that was destroyed in the great flood and as one single example I mean even Mesopotamia has their own right Well, here's another thing. What do you think about the Great Pyramid? Because I've heard everything from the idea that there was some type of tool to achieve enlightenment and they worked on energy centers in the body... ...to the idea that there were some kind of energy generators Why can't we nail this down Pat? I'm not an expert on The Great Pyramid but I think this is a big possibility That there much more to the history And the origins Of The Great Pyramid than

47:39 Mr. Zahi Hawass tended to believe before he was ousted and they keep the pyramids very under wraps in the tight security what you would think that the natural wonder of humanity would be able to explore these things yeah and there'd be no problems with uh finding out radically different ideas. There again is the resistance and the resistance that evolves into its own conspiracy, and that's a perfect example of how that happens They don't want their prestige as a nation who has the ability to create these great structures that needed no other outside influence from Atlantis or any other civilization to create it. They want to maintain this as an Egyptian society,

48:31 Egyptian invention, an Egyptian miracle of wonder so they can claim it on their own. And also it interferes with the long-held beliefs of modern Egyptologists and they don't want to give up their prestige I mean why wouldn't they? If someone came to you and said if I came to you and said the higher side is full I'd say you're probably right most of the time. to people like John Anthony West, who I think is a hero fight against the paradigm. And Robert Schalk my good friend who wrote a foreword to my book Forgotten Worlds, who is a hero, who was a martyr,

49:31 I think the most daring of modern academics who can teeter on a level between modern academia and this new alternative way of thinking. Wasn't it funny that this new alternative way of thinking, this Taron race idea coincides with the idea of a resource-based economy? And so kind of coming together. This year I've heard more about it this year than any other year previously. Uh, I know my sample size is small at 27 but I do feel like it's kind of interesting that we're facing

50:10 It seems like we're on the brink of a breakdown of our current structure, and at the same time you're seeing a lot of people come together with new ideas. A lot of those ideas involve working as a global society." Yeah, I don't know if it's 2012 itself that is imbuing us with this new sense of change. I think more or less in the back of our mind we were thinking about the date and the date signifies... A chicken or egg thing? Yeah, I think we're just in our own minds. We're reflecting on that and we're doing it almost automatically without even realizing what we were doing and It's kind of interesting yeah because you look at it And your thing man if this was to end You know what could we have done better? Then you start thinking man. We should really fix some of the shit Exactly right so Yeah, that's an interesting thing

51:07 Now tell me about this Mexico trip you got coming up in 2013 because that seems pretty interesting. Yes, yes. I was planning on going down to Mexico and that's been put on hold. So the reason it has been put on hold unfortunately and I feel really bad about this...I hadn't put that a whole because the guy who runs the touring company is a Mormon and once he got wind of my Yeah, my views on the way I believe... He doesn't want to deal with me basically. That's how that fucking ends you know? Yeah man! I was looking at that trip. I was thinking about that trip. Yeah it's a great trip but he doesn't wanna do with that. But anyhow so basically

52:05 I do think that the good news is, out of all this, it's just a big India trip planned. Okay yeah is there a discovery going down in India? We are actually my friend Akshay and I who was a native of India we're gonna go down there and we're gonna spend two months just traveling around Indian documenting all the ancient sites all the culture and when that's done those tapes are gonna provide provide the promotional material as we're then going to make into a small documentary, a series of short documentaries that we're gonna put on YouTube. And out these...out of these productions were gonna have a touring company

52:49 Oh, that's nice. Now you can bypass that Mormon and just start your own Exactly! And once we get that thing going with the Indian side of it We're gonna go back to Mesoamerica and Peru And have our own tours there as well That is what I would like to do because You can go to these sites. I'd really like to go Peru, but then I think about if I were to go there, um...I would probably be getting a conventional tour and it really wouldn't be as interesting. Yeah, but who wants to do that? No! Nobody. So that's—I think that's a great idea you got to start a touring company that focuses on

53:31 the alternative side to all these stories. And these crazy sites and pointing out what about these sites is so insane, you know that's what I'd like to see. I don't want to hear a tour guide just be like oh yeah that's kind of a mystery we really know much about it now if you could get Graham Yancock in on that he would have a unique perspective on the whole thing Now you mentioned alien interaction and I've heard you talk about crop circles before. Do you think that aliens are interacting with us in some capacity today? I have no doubt that aliens are interacting with us on some capacity today, uh...I think the evidence is overwhelming and i'm sure that the governments aren't concealing much about it

54:18 Here we go again with the concealing. Do you think, and here's bringing me back to the pyramids but do you think that there is a group of people above those that are keeping things traditional and keeping the heightened security on the pyramids, keeping the lid on. Do you think there's a group of people above them who know what they really were? I think it is the government of India and I'm sure that there is even smaller enclave above the governments that is somehow influencing their decisions. I don't really necessarily mean one of those Illuminati type conspiracies, but i do think there's some small group or some special interest group that ultimately influences what they're doing. Now what you think their motive? Is it to keep things as they are? What they're trying to do, Greg rather, is that...I think what they're trying to do

55:18 It's very Egyptian. I think it's a matter of national pride. I also think it is the matter of anthropologists' pride. I don't think they want to ever give up their monopoly, their right to determine history and I mean that's a natural human impulse to wanna preserve their side of it. You just look at religions throughout history It has been in nature that they wanna preserve their view and any other view damn be it. Do you think they've made discoveries inside the pyramids that they're hiding, or do you think they're just... I had no doubt. I would not be surprised if they found many things which maybe they found it and kind of had an idea where it was leading to, and then said we are just going to stop touching this. We aren't going down that road? Yeah yeah in many cases thats the situation

56:21 They don't want to know themselves about the destiny of mankind and the history of mankind, and in the whole Terran race theory which is now emerging. I think that has certainly with me but with the whole community of the earth like... Now why Terran? What's Terran? Why Terran Race? Okay, well Terra is the ancient goddess of the Earth. And for a long period of time, Terra was a reference to the Earth Okay. Now in the 20th century many of the existing visionary writers and some of them were science fiction writers began using this term Terran simply to describe or it was a word which meant earthling in their literature, but I took it as almost a racial

57:20 identification, a racial idea. An idea that we have a nationalism at hand which is not related to a nation state We have a racialism which is not related to any specific ethnic group or race but a racialism of the planet and a racialism of the entire species feeling that we are one people and that we need to create a state which will embrace all people of Terran blood. And only by doing that will we ever have the moral justification to go forth and accomplish our destiny, which is to go back to space and basically you know Space is the promised land and we are the chosen people not Jews but the human race is the chosen people I hear ya!

58:11 Do you think there's extraterrestrials that are trying to help us realize that? I mean, I'm not saying anything against the Jews personally. What I am saying is they may be the chosen people but we're the greater chosen people. The human race is the greater chosen people There might be some of Jews in there A destiny greater than ourselves to fulfill this fate and space Now do you think there are extraterrestrials that are, are they trying to nudge us along? I think that... Through crop circles or through other means. I don't think it's through crop circles. I think crop circles are probably some type of identification on that alien intelligence but i see that uh i think that cattle prod

58:55 Yeah, like a cattle prod. But I think that you have examples of being monitored by extraterrestrials perhaps they see the potential in us and want us to continue on that great cosmic path which i think was put forth by the creator a very long time ago I've seen some really interesting stuff on crop circles and I love the idea of crop circles being real, but just recently – it didn't make much of a splash in the conspiracy sense – but there was this guy who with snowshoes made all these super intricate crop circles. The thing about that is there are very true examples of faked crops.

59:47 cross circles, and they're very prevalent throughout the whole example of cross circles. But the interesting thing is that there are many more examples of inexplicable and unexplained cross circles. Well, some of the more intricate crop circles and in fact there are certain areas where the wheat seems to be burned or cindered. And they're examples of odd things going out inside the crop circle themselves like cell phones not working... Radiation? Weird radiation phenomena?

1:00:24 and odd feelings, people having erections when they walk into the hospital. There's definitely something strange going on there which hints that they're real I can't really say for certain because I would rather an expert who has studied this more so in depth than myself say that But I would assume that there's something more to crop circles than just a bunch of guys going out with snowshoes trying to make funny design crops. I would hope so, because they tie into New Age stuff the New Age conspiracy a lot in that they say their sacred geometry

1:01:06 Fourth dimensional geometry on a two-dimensional plane to create a three-dimensional image is supposed to affect our consciousness in some type of positive way, make us vibrate and be all happy and want to get along. That's what a lot of the New Age people kind of push out. And it's just – it's a good idea. It sounds cool but I don't necessarily see how it would work But I like the idea that there's an alien race out there trying to nudge us in the right direction because, I really do think we're stuck. Yeah and that is why we have to get off this planet! We are only going to achieve our full potential once were a multi-planetary multistellar species And that should be our primary objective right now People often say oh we can't do it, we are just gonna trash the galaxy

1:01:56 and we're just going to make all the problems in space that we make on Earth. That's why before we do this, we need to be damn sure that we're gonna make change on this planet. Once we make that change then we will have a moral justification to go forward and pursue our destiny but it is our destiny and we must fulfill it. Now I got one more question for you because we are coming up on the hour but the work that Richard Hoagland's done on the moon, or I mean not the moon but the Moon too. Mainly Mars! The face on Mars, Cydonia, uh... The pyramid shapes on Mars What do you think about that? I think it's a fascinating possibility and i'd love to research it more maybe make a book out of it Is that coming after the dragons? It could be is That how we got here on Dragonback

1:02:47 Right that moment. It's our dragon heart, yeah! We'll have Sean Connery speaking for us as well Well, Pat I really am psyched that we got to do this. You're working on the Dragon Book now are there any conferences coming up or anything interesting? Yeah yeah we're going to have a conference at the International Conference on Ancient America and September 21st through 23rd in Marquette Michigan and i'll be there and i'll be speaking Nice. Of course your website would be a great place for people to get information on what you're working on, you also have a newsletter out? You still doing that? Yeah we're putting together a newsletter Godsandaliensmagazine.com We are going to have a newsletter for that and another newsletter for Patchenard.com which we are trying to redo the site right now as it exists

1:03:46 Forgotten-worlds.com is probably going to continue now for the rest of the remainder of the year and then we're probably gonna put all that information onto the new site were developing and just discontinue forgotten-worlds.com It's kind of running its course Alright, well thanks again Pat! Definitely everybody buy my book it's coming out this week And I recommend everyone to read that because it is an embodiment of my views and my ideas. So definitely buy it, and will be available on bookstores as well as on Amazon dot com. Just go there type in Patrick Sinard you'll find all my books online at amazon dot com for purchase. You heard him folks! That was Patrick Sinard thank-you sir!

1:04:53 She has a boyfriend