Hugh Newman | New Discoveries Of Gobekli Tepe, Karahan Tepe, & Other Ancient Sites

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01:36 I love you dearly! Uh, yes. Honestly... You flatter me too much If you were a member of the opposite sex i would propose See? What'd I tell ya Merry Christmas people The planet's puppet masters almost surely haven't There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man And until you've thoroughly tested every last closed chested view I find them all the less you really need

02:18 Where would we be without THC? We know they're lying to us, just don't own up. THC! The higher side chats show, Grant Carl wouldn't accompany And boom goes the dynamite higher side chatters. From The Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood and of all the out there topics we tend to get into around here it's the ancient past that never seems to get old It's chock full of fun stuff like cyclical cataclysms giants megalithic complexes that defy logic underground cities sophisticated architecture and art fallen angels robust shamanic traditions and many other out-of-place and highly interesting elements of the big story

03:04 We really are like orphans dropped off at the fire station when it comes to understanding where we came from and the leftover stuff we do have to comb over only leaves us more confused. And ground zero for the mysterious past is Gobekli Tepe, the oldest site we know of that already kicks human civilization back further than the official story has settled on. and now appears to only be one structure in a network of similar complexes all over the area largely sandwiched between the Tigris and Euphrates complete with sophisticated astrological alignments erected pillars and statues that seem really hard to maneuver without modern equipment, and a configuration that certainly seems ritualistic in nature.

03:45 Well, today we're inviting back Hugh Newman who has been keeping a close eye on the exciting new discoveries that were recently announced and even made a few discoveries of his own. He also has a new book out as part of the Wooden Books series titled Gobekli Tepe & Kerehan Tempeh The World's First Megaliths which is a nice compliment to other entries in the series he's worked on Like Earthgrids, the secret patterns of Gaia's sacred sites. And Geomancy! Earthgrids, ley lines, feng shui, divination, dowsing and dragons Another claim to fame of his is being the man behind the wildly popular Megalithomania Conference and Megalithomania Tours. You might remember he was here a little over a year ago with his co-author Jim Vieira, to talk about their book The Giants Of Stonehenge in Ancient Britain And it's a pleasure to have him here again! The ancient world examiner parser of our mysterious past and the megalithomaniac himself Hugh welcome back Thanks for having me back

04:44 Yeah man i am psyched to do this i really enjoyed the last one and i knew both you and jim had both done enough separate work that would be well worth going over. And here we are with the main offering on the table being go back with teppei and some of the other sites around it, this is a subject i tend to put down for awhile and then come back to every so often and i think right off the bat when the interesting things as that When Gobekli Tepe was first being talked about, they were saying this was a unique site that was as old as it is mysterious. But now based on the map I've seen in your presentation there might be a dozen or more sites in that area that still need proper excavation but also include a lot of the same elements and arrangements and motifs as seen at Gobekli Tepe like the circular enclosures and the tea pillars right?

05:38 Yeah, there's a lot more going on there than most people realize actually. There is a whole region now which is something like 200 kilometers or about 125 miles wide They're focusing on 12 sites. This includes Göbekli Tepe and Karahantepe, the two main sites but really there are probably 30 maybe 40 that aren't really being investigated but are kind of known about and there's hints that are a few more so we're looking at something vast I mean Göbekli Tepe is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what's going on in Southeast Turkey specifically and all of these sites go back 11, 12 thousand years. So it's really compelling. Right I wanted to talk about the dating because that is always a weird thing around here with guests who have all sorts of opinions but conventionally as you say they put Gobekli Tepe at eleven thousand six hundred year old which is seven thousand year before Stonehenge five or six thousand years before the pyramids conventionally They say the Sumerian civilization was only founded in

06:45 4,500 BC. So this is like more than doubling the entire human timeline when it comes to civilizations that we have in the Rolodex and we're still talking about sophisticated temples that can't really be the start of the story either because of their complexity but what are your thoughts on the reliability of some of this dating in general? Well, when we're looking at Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe and the sites they've been researching out there. They're pretty tight I mean iIve got to be honest with you if Klaus Schmitt did the first dating on the sites... And he's from the German Archaeological Institute that they double triple check everything! They went down to the bedrock

07:27 And so it kind of makes sense that what they found with the organic remains, wood and other things they found. That it was that age and they couldn't really get much further back than that but they've been finding evidence earlier at the same sites specifically Carahan Tepe for instance but not construction until around 9,600 BC. There are older sites further east up near the Tigris like Cortic Tepe, Bonchoc Lutala, Gris Filihoyuk for instance they go back to 12-12 and a half thousand years ago I think or more you know it gets older and older the more you look so there

08:08 It really seemed to kick off with Quebec Le Tapis around 9,600 BC or 11,600 years ago. When it comes to other areas around the world there's so many claims on the age of sites and it's kind of frustrating and I got to a point where I decided to do the subtitle of this The World's First Megaliths just to make that this is the oldest dating they've actually properly archaeologically scientifically found for megalithic structures. There's lots of claims on other ones being older, but there's no evidence and so I wanted to kind of emphasize that in the book and in my research I keep emphasizing that... And even before Klaus Schmidt died who was the head archaeologist for a long time since it began at Quebec-Lieu-Tepe he said they're going to find stuff up to 14 000 years old at Quebec-Lieu-Tepe

08:59 And now we're stretching towards that date with some finds up near the Tigris and also they're finding not settlements but evidence of human activity, hunter-gatherer activity around these sites as well going back to earlier dates. So yeah it just seems to be getting older and older the more they look Yeah, and that's what so crazy about go back late set baby in the oldest thing. We know that humans made because there are elements of it that we would struggle to do today. These pillars are many tons from what I understand and they're all in alignment and this circular fashion with two in the middle, there's a ritualistic kind of nature to it or a theme that looks like it's for something somewhat esoteric

09:46 And that's what so odd because you would think that the first thing we could find that man has made would be pretty rudimentary or have a lot of imperfections in it. So to me, that just says well this is the oldest thing we can find but civilization seems to have really been rocking at that point to have made something of this nature Yeah, I agree. The fact that Quebec-Litemper is currently the oldest in that region around Chantelleuphre, the area where most of the sites are being investigated It kind of doesn't make sense. It appears like it's come out of nowhere, it seems like suddenly there was this giant innovation and artistic style and stone carving technology but you can trace elements back to other sites even at Cortic Tepe up near the Tigris which is at least a thousand years old or maybe one-and-a-half thousands years older than Quebec du Tepe they found these kinds of stones that you could hold in your hand

10:43 and they had 3D relief carvings of abstract artistic figures on them. And that's one of the things we find at Quebec-Litepi starting in 11,600 years ago. So this was at least a thousand years older than that but they're smaller but they show that they were doing that you go back to some of the Paleolithic era caves and carvings going back 30 40 000 years you do find 3D reliefs carved on rock walls and in caves and shelters very occasionally, like France and parts of Europe. And so there is an element of this before Gobekli Tepe but suddenly to decide to build... if we just take Gobekli Tepe as an example although only a small amount has been excavated there's possibly 20 of these stone circle constructions with these giant t-pillars virtually every t-pillar some of them 18 feet tall

11:35 are carved into this beautiful shape of this huge T with these 3D relief carvings on it, some in high relief. Beautiful 3d cut with all these symbols and it almost looks like a language...like a whole kind of system they had in place before they did it to come up with this And the other thing that baffles me as well is it's really abstract, the art. They're not just carving and creating art from what they see...they're going into these abstract forms which are continuous and they go to all the other sites using the same types of T-pillars, the same kind of relief carvings, the same symbols throughout the region over nearly 2000 year period

12:18 And so, it's really bizarre when you actually start really looking at some of the carvings they've got there. It makes you wonder what triggered that? What could trigger that kind of amazing abstract artistic style just to come and be prevalent in this area? Yeah, great points. And I've seen some estimates that some of those T pillars are up to 50 tons and you never know if what you read is accurate but even if it's half that, I still struggled to understand how they were cut and placed And let's get into some of the new discoveries, because I think this audience is pretty well familiar with the basics of Gobekli Tepe. But just like we found with the Easter Island statues there were bodies underneath the heads and just like it seems to be under Stonehenge there's a lot more structure beneath it and even when they were excavating Gobekli Tepe to my understanding they said hey look we're just getting started

13:17 This is only 5% perhaps excavated and it's an ongoing process. But in the time since we last talked, they have announced some pretty interesting things and they made it into your new book. What are the new discoveries that have been announced that are from Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe? The two that make it into your new book?" Yeah for sure well very recently literally a few weeks ago like at the end of September 2023 they announced some new discoveries. Mainly it was at Karahan Tepe, they found a new statue which is 7 and 1 half feet tall so that's 2.3 meters but it was found broken in three parts

13:57 and it was like a seated human figure holding his phallus, which was sticking out quite far. But also he had his ribs showing in little square kind of relief on his chest arms going down the side. He had what appears to be a line go along the edge of his face with his ear and his nose which looked like a beard line. And also what looked like a beard coming down from his lower part of his face any of this cool haircut almost like shaved bits down and it going around, it almost looked like a helmet. The images are really compelling and the fact is he's seven-and-a-half feet tall this now makes it not only one of the largest but definitely the oldest ever human statue carved anywhere on earth in this kind of 3D style you know freestanding statue so that is pretty amazing! The earliest one before that was Earth for Man or what was called the Bellicogal Statue and that dates to around eight

14:55 whereas this is 9,500 BC so it's a thousand years old or at least And Urfa Mound wasn't as detailed. It was found in the middle of Shanal-Urfa, at a site called Yemen Hali and it was found recumbent, a bit like part of this was lying on the ground and that one was kind of bald with obsidian eyes and much simpler features now both of them though are touching their phallus, the phallus is clearly shown in the new one especially but also they have a v-neck motif almost like Star Trek And this we find on quite a few of the symbols and were realizing that was an important symbol, important style they were doing back there. So you have this seven-and-a-half foot statue that's one of the discoveries Karahan Tepe.

15:39 There's a second statue they found right next to it, which is probably two or three feet tall and it's this basically a vulture. It looks like a vulture sitting there carved wings beak still kind of mostly intact They also found a polished stone plate couple of feet wide and this is all part of a new enclosure Which they've uncovered on the top of the hill at Carahantepe And again, like I said earlier, only 5% even now has been uncovered. This new enclosure had a whole stone, giant T-pillars broken down but they were in the middle and it could be one of the largest enclosures they're going to find there

16:19 And so this was absolutely amazing. We even worked out all the alignments with Andrew Collins, who I've been working with and JJ Ainsworth over the last few years and it fits in with Andrew's research that is a kind of aligned to Cygnus and Deneb in The Milky Way Dark Rift or all this kind of stuff. So that was just at Carahantepe. There are many other discoveries that I could talk about earlier this year in May myself and JJ noted some carvings on some of the upright pillars in the main enclosure at Carrahan Tepe, these carvings that no one had recorded before. We happened to catch them when the light was a certain angle and you could actually see them so we were quite pleased about that obviously the winter solstice discovery we found in December 2021 but then brand new discovery of Quebec-Litepe I'll just quickly describe this

17:10 They found this life-size boar statue, like 3D statue. It's amazing! It looks so cool and that was found in enclosure D the main enclosure next to the hold stone there which is towards the north northwest and that was found to have paint like red white and black pigment on it So now they're realizing oh these statues all could have been painted so that gives a whole other complexion to the site Also whilst they are uncovering their area They also discovered a slab below it, like a thin megalith. Almost like a T-pillar falling over and used as a kind of seat. On the edge of that was these beautiful serpents and an H symbol with a little serpent head on it as well

17:59 And further round to one side of it, to the right of this... what they uncovered was another giant hold stone like a porthole stone heading again to the north. But this was like a fallen T pillar on its edge so it's kind of like this you know but on its edge rather than upright had fallen directly to the one side and had hole carved in it going to the north again. So these are just discoveries they've announced. Now, there's lots of other little things coming out as lots of little artifacts that have been found at Karahenta but they're not ended up in the museum because it's currently closed because of the flooding that happened this year but yeah so this is just tip of the iceberg because there's more discoveries at sites like Sabert we've found things at sites like Ayam Lahoyak another one of the sites you know we've found various

18:49 being made on the ground sites that haven't even begun to be excavated yet. So this is really the time of discovery, this is like going into Egypt in the 17-1800's it's like going into jungles of the Maya in the 1700 and 1800's... This is like the time when people are now discovering, people are now uncovering these sites so its an exciting time for sure Yeah that's a really great summary it's very exciting the sites are all over some of my haven't even heard of its hard to keep up and wasn't so hard to keep five years ago there was only a handful places in mysterious things people were looking at but now i might be forty sites in this region

19:30 Let's go back to that statue, because now we have this statue that is the oldest we know of and it's seven feet six inches. And the Urfa Man Statue is five feet some odd inches very accurate human height. Well you are the guy who has written about giants do you think this 7 foot 6 inch statue is intentionally that high? I mean that qualifies as a giant statue Yeah, it does. I love it. It's made my day and Jim's proof of at least stone giants but yeah, I think it's compelling because one of the things Andrew and I and JJ and others have noted if you start looking into all the myths of the Anunnaki, Nephilim they're all from this kind of region and there are legends of giants creating these sites these are the stories that biblical Book of Enoch kinds of things so are we seeing someone

20:26 actual size, because if Earthman or a bellicose statue was actual size like he was 5 foot 9 or 1.8 meters then perhaps it's a little clue towards that now. No skeletons are being found to back it up although we know human remains have been found at some of the sites this year they haven't announced that yet but we actually saw them at one of the sites being excavated. We were very lucky to see that, so we know human remains are being found but they don't really publish too much about that." But yeah, so who knows if this is a 7'6 realistic statue of someone at the site. Maybe one of the builders, one of these astronomer priests whatever you want to call them then that would be pretty amazing. Yeah it would and no doubt these statues and sites are interesting but sometimes I think that we romanticize the past or we put a lot on this stuff

21:27 And sometimes I wonder if it really was a little more mundane like people just being people as we are today sometimes you read conventional accounts and i'll say well look at this, it shows that man's consciousness with evolving in their wrestling with there. Acknowledgement it's like you don't really know what's going on and mans mine i tend to think that man's mind has been somewhat the same Going back all this time what do i know that we have these two statues where guys are holding their palace and i in your book there some really great images. That kinda show what would the site look like if they were people around and there's one particular wear,

22:09 There's a guy sitting in between the T pillars and it almost looks like they're dividers of some type. And you can look at the center as like a center stage, and you got these guys holding their files I'm thinking Maybe this was like some ancient strip club or nudie booth or brothel, boys will be boys. And we think that it's like some magical place and I'm just like maybe it's not maybe it's a just another smut den from man's history and that could explain why he was intentionally buried if some puritanical authority figure is like We gotta get that out of here now I know there's a lot of details on kind of glossing over to make that

22:49 Yes, but I think about today's world if it got wiped away and then years later people were examining our ruins. They might find some footprints in the mud and say wow look at those ancient people you know us being the ancient people they walked around with sacred geometry on the bottoms of the soles of their shoes they must have been so enlightened and it's like no nobody knows what that is they just bought some shoes So, I think sometimes that can happen. What are your thoughts on the prospect that maybe it isn't so special or maybe it's a little more explainable by man's nature and maybe for their world? It really was just a mundane place of sorts. Well, I think you got brilliant new theory to write about there Greg. I like it yeah!

23:38 Well, it's one of the things that myself and JJ have been writing about. Although we kind of... The fact that you mentioned people sitting around the edge, you mention it being like a dance space almost or performance space because they're very flat horizontal surfaces sometimes carved out bedrock like we find at Carahan Tepe now which is insane We get it at Gobekli and all the other sites. They have these very huge flat surfaces, so I believe that there was dancing, there was performance... The acoustics now back that up with the elliptical shapes of them. Tests have been carried out if people standing in the middle

24:16 And so the voice echoes through the whole space, the whole enclosure if you're standing in the middle. The whole stones could be where you shout out from or sing from and it could be part of the whole tradition there now with Whether it's a strip club or whether it's more of a fertility site, which is more like what we're thinking. Because the whole Winter Solstice discovery we made fits in with this as well. Obviously all the phallic symbolism but we also have feminine symbolism as well. There are these cup marks which are known... This is what JJ has been researching that they're kind of goddess receptacles to gather water and moisture from the dew and air at night

24:58 I also have what's called the vulva style on the opposite side of the site of Karahan Tepe. The hold stones, feminine symbolism things like this... Even the name of Karahan Tepe originally was called Keçli Tepe and keçli, the k-e-c of it is actually in Kurdish language is to do with a feminine principle like girl woman goddess female, things like this. And so even the original name which goes way back is associated with that. So I think you might be on the right track sex and things like this may have been involved because to us we're actually writing...this big article actually it's going to go up on Graham Hancock site later this year about this it's going to go in our forthcoming book as well because we think that's the case! We think

25:49 at certain times of year, they were having wild celebrations. Wild festivities and actually it would have been what you class as an orgy but it's like you watch the Wicker Man... What are they doing that? Well they kind of do that on Bell Table May 1st. We think they might be doing something in the Equinox nine months later on the winter solstice They're kind of birthing and celebrating birth, rebirth, the darkness of the time of year, reincarnation...all this kinda stuff. you might be on the right track, but I think it might have been more sacred to them and more communal celebration turnings of the year and things like this. And watching the stars at the same time because stars... Watching the night sky would have been their TV or would've been their internet while they were doing it. Yeah, I agree that they were in the same mindset as us. Also think

26:43 The reason they were probably of a similar mindset to us is because I think they discovered certain ways to enhance their consciousness, to increase levels of creativity and innovation. And this could be related to even psychotropics and things like this which is something else we've been looking at. Yeah great points! I guess sex drugs and rock n' roll... We haven't changed all that much the tale as old as time But that is true. Like even today, if we didn't have all the political baggage and we didn't have the electronic technology, we didn't have the TV or the smartphone. What would we be doing with our time? Probably exploring those outer reaches of consciousness through the use of all kinds of entheogens that we would be aware of. So yes. And then when you do that

27:35 And then you mix it with the fertility ritual, let's call it to elevate. I'll go back to dragging and out of the mud, but yeah, me, you could see where this would be happening and the acoustics you mentioned. I wanted to get into that a little more because that's one of those things that along with the alignments, it speaks too. The real details of the engineering of a space like this, it is a section of your book, but talk to us about the best information we have regarding those acoustics and what that really means because people hear acoustics and it sounds kind of provocative, archaeoacoustic. Ooh! That's cool but you know we get readings and those readings actually have implications to people who study this sort of stuff so it does prove kind of intention talk to us about that

28:28 The acoustics thing is fascinating to me because this is something that has been known about for a while at places like Newgrange, Stonehenge... even the interior of pyramids in Egypt. Things like this are really famous sites even at Avebury! Even at stone circles you can have acoustic effects A good friend and colleague, Steve Marshall has been looking into this. He's an acoustic engineer in fact and he's done a lot of experiments at sites as previously as Paul Devereux wrote a book about it called Stone Age Soundtracks so this is known about becoming accepted in academia now the acoustic nature of ancient sites no one for a long time really assumed that they'd be doing it back at the time of Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe

29:17 And so Andrew Collins in his early research realized that Acoustics must play a part of this because the shapes of the enclosures, although I've done new research on this and found very intricate geometries associated with them. But generally they are oval or elliptical in shape in slightly different configurations. The specific types of shapes of them are beneficial and enhance acoustic principles. They still use the same principles today when they're designing auditoriums, are found in Gobekli Tepe like different ratios and so forth. This really fascinated me as further tests were carried out by these Belgian acoustic engineers. They got access to it way back in 2004 or something like this

30:09 and got access to it, and actually did acoustic tests and found some remarkable things all resonating with the male human voice. And sometimes the female human voice going into certain hertz, certain resonances, and other such things... They even got to a point where they were knocking on one of the tall central stones, and it felt like it had a kind of resonance. It almost felt like it was hollow. The fact that they're so shallow They're not buried in the ground like you get a stone, it's not several feet down. They're resting in these really shallow pits of just a few inches, few centimeters and so they could have been moved and shook and they would have vibrated if there was acoustics taking place in their auditorium at the time or in the enclosures there. And so there's a lot to be said for that. Then they realize as I mentioned we stand in the center between the two big T pillars

31:00 then they found that was perfect. You could turn around and speak at a decent level of volume, everyone could hear you equally and this was all tested out so yeah that is definitely there for sure and I think also now the research is going towards the effect on consciousness of acoustics and sound and chanting and things like this... So there's a lot of ideas brewing that these are kind of almost like oracle sites And the whole stone you find in most of these enclosures could have had someone behind that doing some kind of incantation or something like this. So yeah, so there's different ideas but again we're just clutching at what is there to try and make sense of it. We don't know all this. We don't know they were doing this. You're just trying to back engineer what's available to back engineer really.\ Yeah.

31:55 I think in your section, I have in my notes here that Andrew Collins said that enclosure D at Gobekli Tepe is a 4-3 ratio ellipses. And a four three ratio relates to musical intervals the perfect fourth as they say and I don't know a ton about music except to say that it is pretty mathematical So, it seems like a universal language so to speak is I guess what i'm saying. So the fact that they would have figured this out and made things in this ratio is pretty interesting and from a certain perspective you could almost say or paint a picture that sounds like an ancient space station because people are really blasting off here And its only our modern mind that we're like oh! To get other places we need a rocket ship actually consciousness can travel on its own

32:46 if you do the right things and stack up the right properties, the right enthogens maybe some ecstatic dance all kinds of rituals. And then you stack more and more on top, you could really be traveling in the universe without any ship at all. So I find that to be a pretty interesting proposition. You also say here just to go back to statues and Karahen Tempe You say they've unearthed remarkable examples of 11,000-year old stonework and sculptures including an 11 foot tall anthropomorphic pillar with eight fingers on each hand. So also I underline here no statue at Karahentepe has the standard five fingers?

33:34 Yes, that is the case. Now even though the new statue appears to have five fingers... So the new one is kind of the exception to the rule but the one you're talking about is incredible I think their structure enclosed 8H or something like this it's further up the hill at Karahan Tepe and it's almost like a square enclosure with nice curved corners on it And it has four of these T-pillars in the center. Now, we must remember these T-pillars are anthropomorphic so they're like humanoid even at Quebec Lieu Tepe we get this everywhere! They kind of have arms coming down the side you know really thin weird arms coming down the side touching their navel towards a belly button sometimes phallus which is more on 3D statues more than the T pillars

34:18 And this particular one appears to have eight fingers on each hand, which is very interesting. That's one of four pillars found in that particular enclosure! Now the head has kind of broken off... it was probably a T-pillar we're pretty sure of that and it was embedded into this small bench so it was being held up quite effectively I think he was still standing up when they actually discovered it like couple years ago So, the eight fingers thing, polydactylism extra digits things like this. This is something my co-author Jim Vieira has written about actually and he's done a lecture about it where you find that in many of the giant stories even the myths of giants you find that as well way back

35:00 And that's one of the traits, one of the genetic traits of you know, the giant genes and things like this. So to me it kind of makes sense... You have these very interesting people and they may have been experimenting with scientific biology and things like this we just don't even know about. Who knows what's going on? It feels like this was an elite group who came to the area, maybe not from too far away and had these innovations and ideas that may be triggered this whole change in this area. Maybe they were different type of people? It could have been very tall, it could've had extra digits and things like this.

35:54 Pillar 18 in enclosure D resonated around 68 to 69 hertz with harmonics of 91 hertz and 138 hertz. Its placement in a shallow pit enclosed the mechanism of vibration, was it designed to hum in the wind like a tuning fork? A spiraling magnetic field was also recorded between the two central pillars." I didn't know that! I didn't know that they actually recorded some kind spiraling vortex, I mean that does speak to its purpose probably. That's kind of like a remnant or a whisper of some kind of technology even if it's just like a consciousness-based technology

36:37 Yeah, it was a researcher called Paulo Derbitalis from Trieste University who did the acoustic research. And while he was there he got out his very advanced magnetometer testing kit and he found... He did multiple tests from different places in the enclosure and they all seemed to suggest this kind of strange spiraling, it's almost like a telluric current coming up out of the ground in the center of enclosure D. And so these magnetic anomalies are something I've been researching for years because tons of sites are built over natural magnetic anomalies whether they're positive or negative

37:15 when they're linked with the telluric currents that naturally move through the ground. They're linked to, if they can be enhanced and manipulated which you can do that with geometry even...with acoustics and things like this so they may have had this sort of sense that we don't maybe have? We've kind of lost in our culture They didn't have things distracting us constantly. They could feel subtle changes in their consciousness and you do get that with magnetism, and also these magnetic effects... If it was built upon a magnetic anomaly then it may have been chosen the area to build it because of that they might have sensed there was something special had strange effect on everybody but also this is the work with John Burke who unfortunately died a few years ago he wrote the book Seed Of Knowledge Stone Of Plenty

38:04 He found that these magnetic anomalies, when you place your seeds and grains in them for a while... usually at sunrise when the energies get charged up by the sun and the magnetic field lines increase in strength. It stresses them to a certain point. You can get electric currents going through it as well naturally. This stresses them to a certain point that when you then go plant you get higher yield of crop because they've been stressed. And this is what actually... it's like when you do exercise, you stress your muscles to get them bigger and stronger. It's the same principle and he found loads of testing all around the world that all these sites had little areas where they collected this natural energy and it would enhance these seeds in growth. You must remember as well with Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe – and this is pretty much solid information now

38:57 The whole agricultural revolution began a few hundred years after they were built. Literally within a couple of hundred years, they were growing food everywhere and it was being... They would altering different grains things like this so that is really interesting and so it triggered the agricultural revolution that still is with us today really all the grains and everything else. So that is really odd, that there happens to be a magnetic anomaly there now I've tried to go into sites you're not really allowed going anywhere most of these places and get magnetic readings and i'm gonna keep working on this see if we can get access because i'm sure we're gonna find more and that's why these sites were located where they work

39:42 Yeah, that's really interesting. It reminds me of this field we might call natural technologies. There are a lot of people looking at alternative science and alternative mechanisms that are more in tune with nature that our culture just doesn't really respect. Electroculture is one of these things I've been hearing about where it's pretty basic you just put a pole and copper wire wrapped around it in the ground And it pulls electricity from the air and then your plants will grow better. And it's like that is a thing that could have existed 10,000 years ago there's no moving parts for it and

40:19 That's the kind of stuff i'm really interested in reviving those sorts of mechanisms and the ancient people are probably playing with all sorts of stuff they were probably feeling these weird energetic differences and say hey let's plant something here oh look at that it grew more or you know, your guys today is still a mysterious thing we just know what feels really good so they might have been like take this mushrooms And then do that if you think it felt good before now do it and then now do it with mushrooms on this place. And now do it with mushrooms on this place while we're singing or banging drums, and it's just like of course he'd be exploring the deepest depths of feeling good and projecting consciousness. The vortex the magnetic vortex does make me think more about that astral travel thing It also

41:06 Makes me think that is the reasoning for why the constellations and the alignments are so important to them because if you talk to just Modern astral travelers they have some pretty incredible stories of what they're able to do remote viewing too throw that in and And if you made a structure we don't do this today but imagine making a structure where people with this kind of talent or just anyone who had the ability to do it could amplify that ability of projecting consciousness it kinda makes me think about. One of our colleagues gordon white i think is the one who told me this story but,

41:42 A little anecdote about an indigenous culture somewhere who was asked about spirits and communicating with spirits. And they're like, oh yeah we do that all the time! And then they were asked about UFO's and they said something to the effect of well we're a lot less interested in the ones who come here on the bus Meaning like were more interested in the consciousness to consciousness communication that we have going on here. And the ones that are in those metal little ships i mean i guess there's something but they're not that interesting us cuz where already communicating and it just such a flip on our modern culture we don't think that

42:19 People in huts and the dirt would have anything to offer and meanwhile we're trying to wrestle with our spirits even real, i'm like yeah we actually know them quite well and we communicate with them and they bring us rain and you know we honor them and this and that so it's just a weird anecdote but. We need to get a really good base level understanding of our own environment before we can understand a lot of that other stuff, because we tinker around with electronics. But our modern society I think is way off the mark in terms of the real natural template that we have here and they knew it back then more so

42:57 Yeah, I think you're right. They definitely had this natural understanding of everything they could...I think they were natural dowsers or geomancers so they could feel these energies without even realizing it. They could sense where water was and work out the best place to observe the sun, moon and stars from which are essential if you're going to start growing food and domesticating animals like this So, yeah. I think they were doing whatever they could to enhance that and I think they just had really good intuition and the innovation a lot came from intuition and through probably ingesting certain things that may have been available to them at the time. One of the interesting things is we know they were brewing beer

43:41 There's even talk about wine being created as well, but they were brewing beer. So that's an old estate possibility as well. But what they didn't realize is that ergot or ergo would grow when they left it too long and the barley went funny... And then suddenly be having LSD beer accidentally! That could have been in effect because I actually found a 14 000 year-old cave in Israel where they were brewing beer. They actually found ergo so they were ingesting very strong psychedelics, possibly accidentally. Much the same way as you pick a few mushrooms off the dung and put it in your Sunday roast and let you know that you're tripping, delighting, fantastic! These kind of things could have accidentally happened through natural processes. Very much in line with Terence McKenna's whole food-of-the-gods principle as well.

44:37 So if we were to zoom out a little bit, how would you compare and contrast Gobekli Tepe and Karahun Tempe? I understand they're 20 something miles apart which is quite far for people who apparently only traveled on foot. If you would think that these sites are connected maybe people travel between them with no kind of vehicle at all that's a little bit mysterious just on the surface there But what else would you say about the similarities and differences? Assuming most of the audience is aware of Gobekli Tepe, Karahan Tepe I understand is much bigger. Like what are some of the similarities and differences?

45:13 Yeah, well, Kibekli Tepe officially is roughly 200 years older than Karahan Tepe. Although at Karahan Tepe they have found evidence of hunter-gatherer activities on that hill in the area... no building until 11400 years ago. At Kibekli Tepe what they've found potentially 20 enclosures only a few of them maybe four or five of them have been uncovered Karahan Tepe, they found one large enclosure so far. They've just started uncovering the second large enclosure on the top of the hill which is where these statues were found recently but there's lots of small enclosures and unique thing about Karahan Tepe is what's called The Pillar Shrine or Structure AB now this is very strange this is the one with all the kind of upright pillars in

46:06 which goes five, six feet down. These pillars are four to five feet high. There's ten of them carved out of the bedrock like phalluses sticking up out the ground or mushrooms and there is one free-standing one which is placed in this very low socket which is kind of curved almost like a serpent coming out of the ground shape. It's got like an eye, it's got these carvings on it and then on one side of it you've got this head coming out the wall in the western wall is three times the size human head with serpent scales going down the neck and the mouth open. And he's looking towards the porthole stone to the southeast this is where The Winter Solstice Sun comes in as well and lights up the head on The Winter Solstice so that

46:49 whole area is totally unique. Nothing like that has been found at Quebec-Lutepi yet, but considering how little has been excavated of both these sites less than 5%, we have to consider that more things like this will be discovered just what's come out the ground already is incredible and to think you've got 95% more of that come out with just these two sites Then you've got like 10 other sites at least, which have barely been excavated. But I think the main difference is as well not only the pillar shrine structure AB but also a lot of carving out of the limestone bedrock at Karahan Tepe. So they're literally half the main enclosure which is 75 feet wide or 23 meters structure AC I think...

47:42 Half of it, going over to the west as it goes up the rocky hill. They've carved out the bedrock so some of the T-pillars are carved and the seats... The benches are carved out of bedrock! And then it goes around into the rest of the circle there upright pillars sitting on the bedrocks So that is incredible. We're talking about Hypergeum style carving That with the Pillar Shrine you also got another structure which is sunken structure AA as well. The Pit Shrine So, what is going on? Why were they carving out bedrock?" No one was supposed to be doing that to that extent. That quality...that long ago. And so that's unique to Carahan Tepeh although they've now found elements of that at Cycle Seybert. They found this remarkable carved panel which has another gentleman holding his phallus as well and another v-neck

48:32 But they've also found elements of that at the lower levels of Gobekli Tepe, where actually the kind of slabs if you like that the T-pillars are slotted into in the center are carved out of bedrock. And so Yeah, you've got a lot going on but you've got the similarities. You've got the same T pillars, the same types of enclosures similar statues and things like this but there's kind of slightly different style to Karahan Tepe which is kind of intriguing we need to see more of it coming out of the ground before we can get full picture what the hell is going on now. Yes we do but that stuff is really interesting and David Icke would be very pleased to hear

49:13 a human face and scales. This association goes back to some of the oldest sites we know, this is kind of like a human reptilian hybrid illustration to a degree and that alone on its surface is interesting. This isn't just a modern concept that people came up with. Of course there's the Naga and there are other things but for it to go back all this way I mean that's amazing on top of the giant statue, on top of digits, some statues having an unusual number of fingers. Now we got a reptilian type statue and there are other hybrid creatures to my understanding across multiple sites right?

49:54 Yeah, you get combinations of human and animal. One of the things that's very prevalent in Karahantepe is the human and leopard combination that you actually get statues on display at a museum where you get a human being almost like with a leopard climbing on top of him over the top of it. So whether that some kind of bestiality or whether it's actually a symbol of the leopard It's been their totem for that particular site is a high possibility. A lot of serpents at Karahan Tepe as well, but then again you start looking and you can find foxes, canids and different creatures all these sites are very focused on animals. And I think the leopard is the most prevalent one. One of the things we noticed Andrew Collins has really focused on this

50:41 actually, some of the upright pillars that are carved out of bedrock. The T-pillars come up on the western wall in the main enclosure. They have what appeared to be... it looked like a leopard standing up. I mean, Graham Hancock featured that actually in Ancient Apocalypse and he described as possibly looking like kind of shaman priestly figure wearing a leopard cape but actually looks like a leopard pelt hanging down from a belt so if that's the case then How big were these people? If you're having a leopard kind of pelt hanging down, which is relatively small. So Andrew's focused on that and we got photos and realized oh! That's what it could be so the leopard thing is really strong there. It's very strange but yeah you get different creatures like totem poles as well. There was a famous one from Pebecle Tepe which has

51:28 Serpents going up here, the baby's head. It looks like it is popping out of a belly. You've got hands coming down the side and what appears to be some kind of creature on top. Could be a leopard or could be a bear with their faces carved off it. You get similar things at Karahan Tepe and Nivali Churi, a site that has been known about since before Gabagni-Tepe actually where you get similar iconography of a mixture of human with different animals Yeah, those are head scratchers for sure. Maybe it's some kind of beastiality but it is a brave man to be messing around with the leopard in such regard I think back to some things I've heard about magic I only know what I read but obviously there's a lot of lore about the skinwalker could they be somehow harnessing the abilities of certain animals and this weird

52:17 Is it a combining of qualities with the animal world or there's also realms of magic where they talk about projecting your consciousness into an animal there is this whole thing about. Projecting your consciousness into a hawk or an eagle and being able to see through their eyes And maybe that's what they're alluding to, that they found a way to project their consciousness into a leopard and run around as a leopard runs around and hunt as a leopard would. I mean who knows what the limits of that kind of stuff are when you got all the time in the world?

52:54 Yeah, I mean it feels like it was a shamanic culture. You can kind of see that pretty clearly... It wasn't just art for the sake of it you could see there's something profound to them that they had to express in the stonework And thank God they did it in stone, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing any of this now. I think that's definitely the case... It's the same with the fertility side as well which may have been a big deal for them. They had to keep the land and animals and everything else fertile, plants crops to survive or they could've died But with the shamanic side of it, something that Andrew's very focused on actually. It just all makes sense! The symbolism is all there and they've even got these beautiful stone plates that are found... They're polished different types of stones some of them are two or three feet wide and they found mainly on the benches around the main enclosure where people would sit

53:45 And it feels like these plates were like sacraments would be given out to people. They were sacred bowls and these were deliberately replaced and put on the benches in between these T pillars where all of these animal and human statues were right next to them, things like this So it just feels like they were taking sacraments and they were going into shamanic states. Like you say, they were probably connecting with the leopard totem, the serpent, the vulture or the eagle as well and different creatures like the canids and other such things because imagine living back then... You're dealing with wild animals as a threat

54:26 So you gotta like take that on board as well, the practical safety side of it. So whether they were taming them or working with them it seems like they were certainly domesticating some of the creatures out there. And even today are still branches of shamanism where The shaman will go into trances and they'll have a designated totem for north south east and west it'll be leopard or snake or hawk. Or frog even it's like the spirit embodies the animal on the astral plane they give you information perhaps about the person you're trying to heal and

55:05 I mean, it's just clear as day that it still exists now. So why wouldn't that have been the case then? And you could imagine a people who are discovering this even if they've known they still might not understand why it happens but the shaman goes into a trance and gets information from Leopard who then tells them how to heal this condition or save this kid, and then yeah why wouldn't you make a statue to Leopard thanking them? And it seems like the spirits that is all they really want is our attention. It's what so many people who engage in these kind of practices say is the spirit wants to be honored and they want

55:44 human attention and they want idols and statues that honor them because I guess that's their kind of fuel or they're strengthened by the energy of human attention. So then, the reciprocation is that they use their infinite knowledge if they are in the Akashic record or if they are on the field of energy, they're able to just say oh yeah! That person needs to eat these two plants in combination with this brew it up and there'll be fine in a week It's like, man you extract that information. Shaman says oh leopard told me and it's like yeah we're going to build a giant effigy to the leopard! We're gonna honor this thing that saved my kid or my grandma or this or that there are cultures and individuals doing that now so it makes sense that conceptually it could have been going on then too. Yeah no for sure that makes sense I mean they were very...I mean the animal thing is so strong there

56:40 although you do get a few other symbols as well. In Quebecly Tepe they've worked out, they kind of counted the different animals carved in each enclosure and Enclosure A for instance is the snake is the most prominent one. Enclosure B you mainly get foxes. Enclosure C it's mainly boars although they have now found an extra one at Enclosure D. Enclosure D has more birds than any other animal And also, at Karahantepe it really feels like it's the leopard. The one enclosure they've really uncovered so far and so yeah were different groups could have been different groups coming to these sites and there was their totem from their village which they would do this ceremonies in...they would do their work you know do whatever in you know lots of different ideas we've been putting what they were doing inside these structures and I does really feel like it's the case

57:35 In fact, you get in the totem-style poles with different creatures on them. It does kind of emphasize very much this shamanic element that you find at all these sites. And so earlier you had said that it seems like there might be up to 40 sites out there now. And I guess a site is somewhat hard to define because some sites have multiple enclosures, so you're kind of just grouping them in a way that makes some sense but given what about studying this area traveling to this area your fingers on this pulse knowing that they're oftentimes only 5% uncovered

58:16 If you had total control of this whole operation and you could focus all the efforts on just one site outside of Gobekli Tepe and Karahentepe, one or the other ones of these potential 38 other sites. Given what the preliminary work shows where do you think you would focus the efforts for the best yield of mysterious or epic discoveries? There are several sites just southwest of Quebec-Litepi, the Chanteloeuvre area. One of these is Sébirge which I mentioned and there's another one just north called Ayanne-la-Huyek

58:58 There's another one called Yogam Birch and another one called Kakmak Tepe. These are four sites in the same general area now, Kakmak Tepe is older than Gebekli Tepe although they haven't found any tea pillars there but they found evidence of working in the bedrock and things like this but what's really really interesting me it's what is coming out of Seybirg and they've only just started this we've been going there for a couple of years now And since we visited, now they've started excavating. Now what happened there which is fascinating is that we got to know the family so we're kind of friends with the family now all the different family members stay in touch with a couple

59:35 They let us in, and they kept this hidden under their house since at least the 1940s. But it may have been... No no we've been there a hundred years! We've known about this for 100 years!" So they found out at Seyberch that someone had let it slip existed and now the government or the archaeologists are excavating there. They're going to demolish the whole village though. That's what I didn't want to tell anyone because I knew this would happen so they built this entire village called Seyberch over ancient site. A huge ancient site, as big as Quebec-les-Tepes probably and this has got this beautiful panel relief of these bulls and this man jumping up and down with his snake in the sand or a bowler... And this gentleman kind of with his phallus out carved in relief

1:00:16 in this bedrock carved elliptical enclosure. We're finding all these other things coming out there now, and to me that is going to be big news! Now one of the reasons I'm interested in this because of the name of the site... Now Say Birch it sounds like nothing, it kind of doesn't mean anything but say means counting or count birch b-u-r-c little thing off the c means sign of the zodiac And birch in Kurdish means tower or watchtower. So clearly this is an old name and they say that it's only ever been called this, its like Qebeqli Tepe always goes way back the name Qebeqli Tepi as does Kecili Tepe which was the original name of Karahan Tepe

1:01:01 And then I found out through my contacts there that there was a tower there. There was literally a stone tower once existed at Seyberch, and the symbols that are found in Seyberch so far are potentially zodiacal signs And so it's like, hang on a sec. What the hell is going on here? So that area there fascinates me and the fact they're gonna have to demolish half of village is sad! We're actually gonna see if we can try and help raise some extra funds for them somehow... But what they're finding is equally remarkable. And I think there's another site north of there called Dianlehoiak, which is huge! There are like seven mounds there... six or seven large mounds. They found part of a porthole stone and all these artifacts. We got to know the local mayor of the village who showed us around and showed us all these artifacts that he'd already found. What we found just in this field where we were walking about was this broken T-shaped pillar that has never been

1:02:02 published anywhere. We're like, what the hell? And we couldn't believe it. Me and JJ spotted that in December 2021 and it's still there! We went back... It's still there. I thought why haven't they done something with this? They should protect this, put it in a museum. Then there was another cycle, Jogan Birch. There were caves carved out of solid bedrock. There are cut marks all over the place I mean, you can focus anywhere and I think you're going to find things equally as impressive as Karahan Tepe and Gbekli Tepe. The fact that I've just focused on three or four sites out of 12 in one area proves that...I see this is like a massive civilization beginning 12,000 years ago. I call it super-civilization because it's so vast

1:02:47 It's so unheard of. It shouldn't be there! I mean, as you mentioned at the beginning, Sumerian was the first civilization wasn't it? Egypt... things like this now this is at least twice three times old in some cases and some of these civilizations And to me, they were as advanced as potentially the Sumerians and Egyptians in certain ways. With the astronomy with the solstices that we're studying in The Stars, stonework techniques, the high level kind of shamanism and everything else you have to accept the acoustics, the geometry... I mean, we haven't even come on to some of the geometries we're finding at these sites now. They were using specific measurement systems as well

1:03:31 And these are all based upon earth measures, suggesting they must have measured the earth. And so to me that's all signs of civilization... high civilization. We even have symbols that are being researched by various people including my partner JJ who believes they had a language. They'd written this was carved in some of the stones and so you know the fact is so little has been excavated I mean we're kind of trying to predict what's going to happen what's going to come out based upon and sometimes with a hit of the nail on the head. I think one of the main things which you can't deny is this winter solstice alignment we saw and witnessed in 2021 because the sun comes through the hole, and lights up the head!

1:04:16 I mean, that's undeniable. It is actually there and yet the archaeologists won't accept it even though it still happens today. It would have actually been better back then. It would look better and so I'm going on a rant here by the sounds of it but actually I think just focusing on the sites southwest and west of Chandlerfa will be really interesting starting thankfully they've actually started at Sayboat so we're gonna start seeing more come out from there soon Yeah, really interesting stuff. And of these let's say 40 ish sites I mean it goes on and on but we're trying to form a little bit of a barrier around here here's this area and there's like forty ish sites

1:04:57 And we talked about where you would focus the excavation if you could. What would you say about the newest site? What is the newest named site that has recently been announced, that obviously because of the nature of it being the newest they would know probably the least amount about it but what is the latest of the latest? Well yeah I mean there's sites that have not been excavated yet they've just announced 12 sites. These are the Tastepala sites, Tastepala means stone hills it's a big project It's gonna go on for a decade or more probably for longer than that if they can do it But you know we must understand some of these sites have not been excavated They've just been announced So we've actually being out looking at the sites before they'd be an excavated and there's no one around nothing like that You can just go wandering about but so buried all these sites are deliberately buried. I mentioned Sayberch, Ayan Lahoyak

1:05:52 Kakmak Tepe, they're actually excavating that now at Say Birch. And Yogan Birch and the Analoik have not been touched and that surprises me you've got Tasli Tepe which is actually on Karakadag Mountain which is where the first inkhorn wheat was ever created it's like famous for being the kind of sacred mountain of the area where this agriculture really kicked off which is just a few miles north of Pibekli Tepe There's other sites like Harbert Zu Van, which is not too far from Karahan Tepe and Sefir Tepe which is north of Karahan Tepe. Now those have started to be excavated we have a European team in at Sefir Tepe We went there, we visited, we got chatting with the archaeologist It's a whole bunch of t-pillars and enclosures A few discoveries interesting little kind of pendant type thing Which has these indentations on it Which I think there are 13

1:06:51 which could be linked to the lunar counting system. But again, very little of that's been excavated. There is a Japanese team at a site called Harbet Zuvan Tepesi that's really hard to get to... it's in the middle of nowhere and very little has been excavated but they have found a statue of a man with a phallus as you do They found a couple of other statues there, tea pillars and things like this. Tassli Tepe, don't know anything about that just yet I just found a few pendants and other things. You head further east going up towards the Tigris River area this is where the super ancient sites seem to be like Kortik Tepe or Choklu Tal which we managed to visit

1:07:31 These are like 12,000 to 14,000 years old. You know these are in the middle of the Younger Dryas sites and some of them have been excavated a while back some of them haven't been touched and we're in the process now this is the discovery process it's happening and so we go back every year like twice three four times a year just to keep up with what's going on We've got a lot friends out there we've got colleagues we've got to know a lot of families who own the land things We're trying to be friendly with the archaeologists, but I don't think they're too keen on us. We do our best... But yeah we just absolutely passionate and fascinated by this. But i think you've gotta remember there's only officially 12 sites and these are generally around the area of Göbekli Tepe, Karahancai, Rastanlirfa. All the other sites along the Tigris aren't part of the Tazteplah project. They're separate. There's like Turkish archaeologists working up there we believe

1:08:28 from the university and like Midyat, and other places. The site's already excavated... they're actually currently being excavated again like Cheyenne who I mentioned. And I think there are many more sites than this! Our good friend Chuck who passed away a while back ran his brilliant YouTube channel called CF Apps he claimed there is loads more. And I looked at him communicating with him He was doing a lot of research looking into all these academic articles There is an archaeologist called Bartin Salek who's found evidence of lots more sites in the region. We visited a site called Hamzantepe, for instance but we got kind of almost chased away by wolf dogs in the area and it was built next to a rubbish dump so it was a bit scary that place and we couldn't get to the bit we wanted to get to really... And to me there is a civilization there, ancient super-civilization and its just waiting to be excavated basically

1:09:27 Yeah, super civilization is what it's starting to sound like. And you alluded to a little friction with the archaeologists I was going to ask you about that because we only really know what they show and there's a potentiality that maybe they don't show everything yeah they found a boar statue here you go look at this analyze this its painted have fun Well, maybe they found other stuff that is a little more explosive. A lot of these sites are wrapped up in the lore of fallen angels and Nephilim and Anunnaki... I don't know how connected we can really say that it is. It's just kind of the stories. It's old story so old sites you'd say would be kinda connected but

1:10:14 It seems like there might be some kind of parallel with Egyptology. Obviously, it's pretty well known that it's very closely guarded. You can only go in certain areas. Other areas are blocked off. You got to have the special merit badge signed off by the government even be allowed to know about these places? Is that maybe a concern with some of these other sites that they're only going to show the more mundane and less explosive things they might find That's a possibility, yeah. I mean that wouldn't surprise me and there's a huge area, Aker Bekele Tepe which no one is allowed to go to and they've been excavating it for years still... And they won't allow public access. I've asked every time iIgo there virtually can I go have a look? No of course you can't so we're kind of relying on what we're told really yeah I mean it's frustrating when that's one of the things about Karahan Tepe which

1:11:10 It was really nice. I've been going there since 2014 with Andrew Collins and JJ's been coming with us since 2018, and we were visiting there before they excavated it, before there was any interest in it at all. It was known about but all you could see was tops of T-pillars a few inches sticking out the ground over this huge hill. That was it! One unfinished carved monolith from the quarry on the western hill And that was it. A few pieces scattered around, one T-pillow really worn and small was found with a serpent on it. Even we weren't sure what was going to be found there back when we first visited in 2014 but we got to know the family they kind of like us so we went up this other hill as the second hill to the north which is now called Ketchley which is actually the original name for Karahantepe

1:12:01 And there's stuff up there. There are all these caves, these rock-cut square areas and things like this... Now that's out of bounds! You can't go there and you can only go to certain parts of Karahantapé. So it is very restrictive and they don't want you seeing things before they announce it or things like this but to be honest with you, they're doing excellent work and working hard at Karahantapé. We've been there in the mornings when they've arrived and working so they're really going for it And I think most of the stuff is going to come out. It may take time, there could be political or religious reasons we don't know but we are very clear and straight. We're just investigators researchers writers. We don't make too many wild claims. The winter solstice thing that me and JJ discovered has ruffled feathers for sure

1:12:48 because they could have found that if they'd been there and looked at it when we did. But they didn't, you know? And we did! So now... They've even shortened the walkway so even if you go there today, you can't see that side of the head that gets lit up. You're like, ugh! It's a kind of stretch around or run round out to leave a camera on time-lapse or something. That's pretty solid. That Winter Solstice thing is pretty solid It's undeniable because it can be witnessed. It's not like it's a theory or hypothesis, this is an absolute solid thing that can still be seen on the Winter Solstice today so that makes it really intriguing and hard to deny. Also even the top archaeologists there get asked about that on TV interviews and they have to accept something might be going on... And also

1:13:43 It's also like researchers like me and others get classed as fringe theorists. We're not archaeologists, we don't have the academic credentials... And so that is generally the kind of place we're pushed into when it comes to their perspective but we have such a strong passion for this stuff and such high interest in it. We just like seeking the truth just like I'm sure the archaeologists are. So we're all on the same path fundamentally certain letters after our name, and they do. But at the end of the day what comes out of the ground comes out of the ground and to make Discoverers like The Witness Solstice thing was a real blessing because for all we know if we hadn't have accidentally turned up...this is thanks to JJ really she kind of insisted that we go at this time and then a load of serendipitous events pushed us to go first thing in the morning because

1:14:37 It's the only time we could really go before these officials were going to turn up at this, that and the other. And that made us go there at sunrise and then we witnessed it... Well hang on a sec! We didn't even know he was gonna be there because even if you try study it on Stellarium or like an archaeoastronomy program, you wouldn't see it because it doesn't start until 10 minutes after sunrise So there's lots of little things like that, little coincidences and almost getting guided to these places at a specific time. And even when we went there in May this year we were able to locate a whole bunch of carvings that have never been recorded just because of the exact position of the sun at that time of year and that time of day on that day of the year. We were like whoa! We've looked at those stones before but haven't seen them

1:15:25 And so there's little things like that, and that makes me think that these 3D relief codes are very much focused on light. The movement of the sun will bring out certain things at certain times of year and then be part of that ceremonial activity which may have lasted all year round with the solstice being one, equinox being another... We went down to September Equinox as well We had to go there with all the archaeologists, so we had to do it covertly a little bit. But there was...we believe there's an equinox alignment to the east and we believe that actually a whole channel carved out of bedrock going into the east from the Pillar Shrine that the head is more or less looking at but you can't see the channel because its filled in with rubble. You can just see the start of

1:16:11 at the edge of the Pillar Shrine. I made a little video about this, and it features in this article we're going to publish... And I think I mentioned it in the book as well. So that is interesting because we find that to the east on the equinox more so than others. You get not only the rising of the sun, you get the rising of Leo in the sky which is part of their procession of the equinoxes now we see Pisces rise every two or so thousand years but Leo also could have been a leopard as well and so a leopard symbol may have come from that and they may be marking that on the equinoxes and so then you've got these things to consider as well So there's lots of ideas brewing

1:16:59 They're absolutely fascinating and I just can't wait for more of it to be excavated. Yeah, that's a lot of interesting stuff! I like the idea of being guided... seems like the ancients want their excellence to be known and they'll take the people that they think deserve to know or will amplify their excellence to the rest of the world and they'll guide them along and that's a beautiful thing and kudos to you and JJ for discovering that alignment. That is a really nice feather in your cap It seems like these discoveries and excavations will be going on probably beyond both of our lifetimes, but you'll always be able to say that you discovered that. And even if these archaeologists don't have nefarious intentions some of what you just said it speaks to the fact that they have mental blockages in some cases too

1:17:51 even recognizing what they might be looking at because these people couldn't possibly have been as advanced or as Cognitively competent as we are today. It's just not possible so clearly they were just drawing some little squiggle and Obviously you look at it from a different perspective, and that's why I'd like to see more the alternative researchers become the primary researchers of I guess one of the things that comes to mind, that they would never disclose is if they found a giant skeleton in one of these places and you would know best. That these are the things that don't really reach the surface let's say or they're not on The Discovery Channel show well i'm just curious

1:18:36 Who really funds these excavations? Is it just the local government, or is it more like something akin to the Royal Society or some academic societies of some type. I think it's mainly a government program. I think Testepler is... They have big events and officials going to sites when they make discoveries. They can all see them but the public can't. So I think it's now a governmental thing. They're really pushing the tourism thing as well, they want more people to visit and experience these sites... They call it Zero Point in Time is the kind of tagline and I've got a huge amount of respect for all the people working on it because stuff is happening you know finally it's happening stuff is coming out of ground

1:19:24 Some parts might be blocked off, they want to protect the sites. They're worried about stuff being vandalized. They've had looters go to sites and steal things in the past and stuff like this so I can understand their trepidation. We are hugely respectful when we go to these sites. We never take anything away with us. We never touch anything. We try and keep within the rules as best we can You do accidentally cross that line occasionally, you know if it's not clear. But I think when it comes to the archaeologists. You look at Klaus Schmidt, who passed away some years ago now and was the original excavator... he was talking about the Anunnaki. He was talking about are these the Watchers who built this? Is this linked with The Garden of Eden or the Dukkhu Mound and things like that so he was kind of really open-minded. His book is well worth getting. He's just written one book about Gobekli Tepe which is really interesting because

1:20:20 So he was quite open-minded, and he very much saw them as temples. That was very much his focus... And that resonates with me! I think they had Definitely they were temples, but they were probably multi-purpose temples. Nowadays since the new archaeologists have taken over there's another perspective they're focusing on and they want them to be domestic dwellings... The whole thing is like a domestic dwelling then these enclosures aren't temples their community spaces that's what they now call it So there's a different perspective, a different agenda being played out with less of the spiritual kind of religious connotation associated with these sites. But then you get statues like the ones turning up at Karahan Tepe where these are clearly shamanic statues and fertility statutes and other such things... How can they be associated with some kind of domestic dwelling? It doesn't make sense! And we get a sense because I found all these smaller structures around

1:21:21 these small square enclosures, even had roofs on them and climbing the roof. There's loads of these have been found there now and they claim that this is where people lived but actually these could be where pilgrims would stay and work at the site whilst they were there like a retreat or something because each of these rectangular structures had a small T-pillar within Why would you put a tea pillar up inside a small domestic home? It doesn't make any sense. So we get the sense there might be more for smaller rituals, for pilgrims coming to the site and they found all these artifacts saying they were preparing food and grinding crops grain or things like this...

1:22:05 So they say, oh it must be domestic. And we'll actually know that could be the pilgrims coming in and doing things. There's different agendas playing out about the perspectives on what these sites really were but they're so monumental, they're so impressive and the art is so abstract and remarkable for this era that you can't just claim like enclosure Diego Bekele-Tepe is someone's house. It would be like a mansion if it was, and it doesn't fit so there are a lot of different ideas coming forth about the sites now and the archaeologists have their own perspectives we have different perspectives

1:22:45 But we're not claiming we know everything. We just, from our experience of studying the ancient cultures, that's just the ideas we come up with and put them forward as possibilities rather than fact." Yeah this is all so interesting! You've thrown out a lot of names for sites I haven't even heard of and before we go i wanted to mention this section you have in the book on three sites i shouldn't even try to pronounce but let's say K.O. new kill the sink and gear who tap a at subtitled alien statues goddess figurines and skull buildings you gotta tell us a little bit about this i'm curious about alien statues you do say that can you know topsy

1:23:32 is a place where hundreds of human skulls have been uncovered, some of young people indicating ritual rites might've taken place there. But what can you tell us about the alien statues you're referencing here in this subtitle? Yeah, the alien statue. I mean that is the best subtitle in the book actually isn't it really? That was a place called Kilisic they're not sure exactly where this was found i think it was in that region It's kind of north of the whole area towards Euphrates near where Navali Churi once was yeah and they found this really cool really odd looking statue as low few feet tall but if you look at the image he's got like weird little kind of skinny arms pulling up some garment

1:24:13 with the big holes, it's got this feminine element to it. His head looks like a kind of weird face and then he's got like this huge head going back with these skinny weird arms coming down the side zigzagging down... And god! It looks like Alien from the movie Alien franchise so that that, even though he's probably not supposed to be an alien. Because it could be a hood he's wearing... They often have statues where they're double-headed or one face on the back and one face on the front You actually get hairstyles in that part of the world, that women wear where their hair is held up and they have a garment over it. It looks like that! So yeah there's lots of ideas about that but that could be what the top to the T-pillars also represent because you don't see the faces on the T-pillars... They're blank. You only see the anthropomorphic bodies of the humanoid features of statues but yeah the callistic thing is very interesting

1:25:09 Cheyannou I mentioned earlier, it's further north. And they found this building called the Skull Building. They found evidence of all these skulls and skull fragments quite a lot of them and they found children's skulls as well so they think this could have been a sacrificial area that they were doing this in but this was much more of a kind of site where people lived because it was next to the river there's a stream coming off the Tigris near there as well Whereas sites like Bekli Tepe and Karahatepe aren't near any rivers or streams. The only water they get is from what they collect, so this is another reason why I don't think they're domestic sites. Domestic sites tend to be near water sources that flow by... But yeah! And there's also at Gertru Tepe there's just started to be excavated as well. They've actually found this goddess figurine there

1:25:59 This is one of the latest sites of the whole culture. They found a goddess figurine there, which looks like what you find in Malta and Gozo...which I find really intriguing because there's been some new research done out there by remarkable author called Lenny Rijic who has written a book about Sirius, I think it's called The Sirius Star of the Maltese Temples. We were with her actually last March in Malta looking around sites there. She is convinced that they were following Sirius in the sky and actually when she reoriented all the sites to where Sirius would rise, all the dates shifted back of the sites some to the era of Gobekli Tepe and Kerohan Tepe so even the Maltese sites could be much older. The fact you're finding the same goddess statues there is again another interesting feature

1:29:03 Man, well Hugh you are the man. This has been a lot of fun really educational as to what we're discovering out there and I hope to see on a tour one day but until then take care! Yeah thanks so much Greg i appreciate it good talk with ya Heck yeah Hireside Chatters heck yeah Hugh Newman is the man, and a lot of us probably have a certain picture in our heads of what Gobekli Tepe looks like given the research we've been hearing about for the last decade or so. And now that's been radically recontextualized! I'd never even heard of Karahen Tepe before this... Pretty exciting stuff. I know that it might be hard to square with the new chronology timeline revisionist folks but these sites have to fit in somewhere

1:29:53 And I like that they found giant size statues in the area. He was obviously very excited about that given his previous work, and mentioned this before but when i was on the Armenia tour with Graham Hancock and this team of local researchers headed by this guy Vasgen he slipped in more than once That in some of the areas we were checking out giant bones were found Graham would roll his eyes and say, I'm interested in giant ideas not giant people. But I think he's come around to the general idea now because he's had Hugh as this author of the month before and I think you might be author of the month again in December but Vasgen had no context for previous research people on the tour might have done or what we might know He just said it pretty casually And I think I caught at least one of those moments in the tour video that I put up

1:30:45 Which is something else I've been thinking about. I am going to go ahead and just put out those tour videos for everyone It's been a plus bonus for a long time, but it was something i did seven years ago even though I still don't hear anything about these sites even though Armenia borders Turkey But in 2024 I'm gonna make a few changes that strip down all the extra stuff like the forum and the cover songs And just open it up because I know what Plus Members want is just the interviews themselves and that's really it. Even the joint session episodes, nobody cares about those and they were taking me a lot of time. I'll nail all that stuff down later but because its relevant to the ancient world and enthusiasts of material like this we covered today

1:31:34 You can now go to my YouTube channel and watch all three of those videos. I think the first two are 40 minutes, and the third one is 20 minutes but it's a lot of stuff! And a lot of sites were covered. Karahunge is pretty interesting but I think the most interesting is Davine, The Buried Pyramid that's gotta take the cake But since the YouTube channel is on its last legs anyway with another couple of removals and another strike I guess before i get completely banned, I would like to let more people check that out if they're interested. You can find the playlist third row down on the front page now but kudos to Hugh for doing this work and I appreciate him updating us on the latest findings! I wasn't really trying to be facetious with the comments about maybe these were ancient sex clubs

1:32:25 I just think sometimes we put a lot of highbrow, intellectual esoteric framing on what might have been pretty basic human activity. How many statues of guys holding their dicks do you need before you think hey maybe people fucked here? It doesn't explain the astrological alignments and the animal carvings which are also thought to be constellations But I think we walk by a lot of stuff today that isn't all that important, but if they dug it up in 12000 years and it was all they could find. It would seem a lot more special from their perspective either way. It's all fun to think about obviously the ancients overall were a lot more sophisticated than Western school books give them credit for but savages and cavemen is a pretty low bar to clear anyway

1:35:56 And another thing that I want to start doing in wrap ups is talking about the previous episode and how it was received, or at least mentioning the plus member rating on the website. Joe Atwell is sitting at a 4.8. It really doesn't get much better than that! I'm glad people were largely okay with such sensitive material for the most part Although not everyone was, I did post one of the emails i got on the social media channels and made the joke on instagram that after they ranted at me it said sent from my iphone. And you really can't trust a person who still uses this stock email signature can you?

1:36:39 But it was definitely an episode that sparked a lively comment section and I don't want to put anyone on blast because plus comments are really supposed to be blocked from public view which allows people a little bit of a barrier to maybe say how they really feel but one member did say that it was incredibly distasteful, disrespectful to the families and all those who suffered even though no one suggested that people didn't suffer. I'm just open to considering that some of the biggest world events of all time might've had their narratives massaged a little bit. They said, how would you feel if your family was murdered? And then people were doubting that it happened in the way that it was said to have happened and that kind of thing. And this is a criticism I have faced hundreds of times this sort of it's disrespectful to the dead and the families who lost people. And I have to push back whenever it happens

1:37:38 Because if the goal is to push and pull on the narratives, and examine some of these inexplicable facts as Joe put it in the name of seeking the raw truth of a situation. How can that be disrespectful? To the dead! It's the opposite if I die and they tell you it was a suicide or random mugging Believe me Me nor my wife would be disrespected If you dug deeper to find out for yourself I'd be insulted if you didn't actually But the bigger point is that nearly every conspiratorial topic involves some dead people. False flags, assassinations, mass shootings... There's always someone or a large number of people who sadly are killed in these sorts of events. You can't just say well this one is off limits for me because it hurts the feelings of the families to have the mainstream narrative challenged because then we'd never dig into anything right?

1:38:37 You can't ask who really killed JFK. You can't ask questions about 9-11, you can't consider there might be a deeper story to the death of Kurt Cobain or Tupac To me that's an argument that the system seeds to keep people from investigating Think about the events in the last couple years and how dangerous medical misinformation was Although when I grew up it was commonplace to go get a second opinion So this idea of one ultimate truth from some medical ministry is not even a rational position. Oh well, not really the time or place for a big rant but I just don't like the we can't consider some potential fuckery in the way things are described to us because of the families would be offended argument. I don't want to offend any families! I don't want to dishonor any dead

1:39:30 But asking uncomfortable questions and seeking the truth beyond what we're told usually offends somebody, no matter what you're talking about. So I'm glad this particular person wasn't bothered when we talk about 9-11 because maybe they don't know any New Yorkers and they weren't really that bothered by the investigators who came here to talk about their work on Sandy Hook because they probably didn't know anyone who lived in that area But maybe they have a Jewish great aunt so now you can't talk about Israel-Palestine or World War II or any of that stuff. I think you see what i'm getting at but hey overall 4.8 means the vast majority are on that page, or at least think Joe brought up a lot of stuff worth considering and I appreciate that

1:40:19 but I'm going to read off some of the upcoming events and get out of here. We got December 2nd High Springs Brewing Company in high springs Florida, i will make it out there one of these days December 3rd Mount Cotton Australia at Venman Bushland Park they're getting together bring a chair a mug for tea food to share and good vibes December 5th we got something going on in Nashville at Monday Night Brewing. December 7th, we got the Flame International Restaurant in LA doing their monthly meetup and December 22nd this is interesting We have an event in Bulgaria it looks like this is an event that was put on the THC calendar as well as the No Agenda Calendar

1:41:06 I'm totally down for this kind of stuff. I love when the tribes get together, the overarching goal is not to brand these meetups as Hireside Chats events but really just to allow local people who are into this sort of material no matter what show they get it from to unite locally and make themselves more resistant to operations in the future so that's a beautiful thing Go to highersidemeetups.com to get more details on any of these events, and if you didn't hear about one near you can also make one very easily but I hope you liked this break from the conventional topics everyone is weighing in on and appreciate me hitting you with something different so big thanks again to Hugh for taking the time i've done my part your move history hiders political permit and permission road blockers and excavation interrupters

1:42:04 You're fucked, man. You get to your desk and your boss says it's a mess And your soul slowly grows To a place where nothing grows When you think he's not around, you insert a SETI sound The OM says turn it down and you say It's just the higher side chats Who do you think could be invited? To Bohemia Grove. To a Bilderberg club Who do you think could be invited

1:42:57 By a Rothschild to a party on a submarine Diving down To the center of the earth Through the Marianas Trench Your teeth begin to clench From the sulfurous stench The mask you're given doesn't fit Cause you're not one of them Starting today, you'll make plans to get away. There's no one to hold you down and the what-ifs start to drown Then you wake to the glare of a cofluorescent stare And the light winks at you cause its life is almost through But it's holding on to quit time just like you It's time for the High Side Chats!

1:43:47 Bye.