THC 77: Elisa | A Recovering MK Ultra Mind Control Assassin

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood While people today is going to be an interesting show we're going to be talking to an alleged MK ultra victim survivor and whistleblower goes by the name of Elisa whom I was introduced you by my main man Ron Patton of Paranoia magazine So I thought it would be highly appropriate To bring him down in the pad for a little drink and a little smoke And a little investigation in the deep dark world of trauma based mind control. Ron, how's it going man? It's going pretty well Thank you Yeah just want to let you know that

00:59 met Elisa on October 2009 in Ogden, Utah at the Child Advocacy Symposium on Mind Control and Ritual Abuse. And actually there are a couple of survivors of that horrific mind control program MKUltra It was her and Peter Tursheff there. And also there was Dr. Chuot, who's from Ogden. He is a whistleblower on satanic ritual abuse in the Mormon Church And then there were a few other people that I felt were questionable, but they were there anyway. That was Ted Gunderson who's a former FBI Bureau chief and Senator John DeCamp who wrote the book The Franklin Cover-Up and a few other people. But that's where I initially met her and she... Boy what she has to say is you're not going to really find it out there too much on the internet or in the media per se but

01:59 What she really delves into is sort of the hybrid cloning programming that she believes has gone on for thousands of years. A lot of people dance around that, but I've never heard of someone who says they were involved in that on a personal level so that's pretty sick. You got a new fall issue of Paranoia Magazine dropping very soon with JFK and UFOs being the main story in that issue. You also have a story on Hollywood mind control which seems appropriate to talk about today. What piece is that? Who wrote it? It's an article called Release the Stars Babylonian Mind Control in the Entertainment Industry and that is by Jamie Hanshaw who is a girlfriend of Freeman, who a lot of you probably know. They put out a publication called Weird Stuff but she has been investigating

02:56 that area of mind control in the entertainment industry and in Hollywood for a number of years. And so she sort of gets into the music videos and certain individuals that were connected with the Disney Corporation, and you find some very interesting connections and correlations very dark and demented. It may seem theoretical to a lot of people, but when you start putting the pieces of the puzzle together it makes a lot of sense how Hollywood or the entertainment industry is used as a means to control the masses in a subliminal way

05:25 Welcome back people. Most of us have heard the stories of secret CIA mind control programs like MKUltra and underground networks of systematic trauma, both sexual and psychological to program people from a young age for various purposes Everything from being the new pop culture cash cow for the Hollywood elite To programming triggers deep into this conscious to create patsies or puppets for mass public shootings and targeted assassinations Well folks, today we have a woman known as Elisa who claims to have been a very real victim of such programming and abuse. She's written about the programming her experiences and her deeper thoughts on how far these missions go in her two books Our Life Beyond MKUltra volumes 1 & 2

06:07 Elisa, I am so psyched you're here. We got plenty of time! I think it's really important to give you a minute So you can tell the people your personal backstory? I mean obviously it's been very traumatic But I know a lot of the listeners really want to understand the details Of what happens to the victims at these types of programs and You're really in a unique position to give those details so if you wouldn't mind please walk us through this timeline of manipulation Sure, Greg. Thank you again for giving me and us the opportunity to come on and I may just start by mentioning that I usually speak in the eye now but sometimes I say we so if I go back and forth I'm referring to me and my alter personalities.

06:52 I was born in 1962 and the reason why I like to show the year out is because with programming there are kind of like spans of years that will help determine where the technology was for certain groups of people. You know, if you were born in the 50's it may have looked somewhat like this or if your born in 60's 70's and so forth. And with each decade or even I think shorter span of time now, the methods and technology that they're using does change. What I went through is very much upgraded these days. It's a whole different ballgame. The technology allows that and what some of the people went through in years prior to my programming

07:44 They also went through slightly different, but as you probably already know there's some baselines that go kind of across all of them. There are certain things that are common base programming for a lot us. A lot of the themes and so forth have changed over the years. I was born in New Jersey. My first programming memories, or my first abuse memories are actually pre-verbal and I'm going back and forth between not being able to breathe, and then being able to breathe, crying. I do dissociate. We can relive some of my memories over the years, particularly since 2008. I don't want to get ahead of myself...

08:39 I stayed under use in programming despite being aware that something was going on and even trying to get some help. I spent most of my life there until I was 46, my memories had been breaking through for decades but there was really nowhere to go mental health community, I kind of got passed off and medicated and reprogrammed, which is really just a reinforcement for most existing programs plus they can add enhancements. And it was continued to be used until 46 when I met couple of men in Salt Lake City that were at great risk but I wanted to meet them which is the story in itself that I won't go into

09:23 But I knew that I was going to die soon, and it felt imminent. And I even had the understanding that maybe me did it." And that did turn out, I do have a couple of at least two suicide programs. And I met them and it was the first time in my life that I just said you know, you're probably going to tell me I'm crazy but I spent like two days telling them everything. I said don't tell me anything let me just tell you what's there and at the end of it these two men looked at me and said not only do we believe you, we've worked with other people like and that was the floodgates opened. It was the first time that I was safe, and all basically almost all of my altars that were willing to came forward and started telling all their stories

10:10 the memory started flooding into my conscious mind. Me being one of what I call the frontline people who was to present to the world, look like a very normal and very high functioning. I've always been very high functioning, very intelligent and And yet I, that main, what I call the main front altar never knew about the others. And there was a group of us upfront that took care of whatever needs we had and basically the idea was to prevent me from ever really realizing what was inside no matter what showed up and so in April 2008 that all changed and it was the safety factor it

10:57 It was that I'd met people who knew and I would say it's the first time ever or so. I thought Deep programming has its own pitfalls, it's like kind of like a minefield but There were people who said will help you so Elisa Yeah, this is Ron You know, I first met you back in 2009, you know in Ogden Utah and you had You mentioned that you read my article Project Monarch Nazi Mind Control and that kind of resonated with you in a lot of ways. So the type of programming that you went through, and everybody's programmed differently depending upon what their abilities are... Would you say that you were heavily programmed with what they refer to as beta and delta programming?

11:51 Yes, apparently I don't know when this was determined or if it was by design right from the start and I will just interject here real quickly. This is really hard for...I understand the average person to understand what's really going on at this time and even back in the 60s in these ultra-black projects but I believe there was intervention right from the get-go, even in my...even preconception. Preconception? Can you kind of give the details of that? Sure What I mean by preconception is that it was with me and I'm apparently not even remotely the only one this happened to but their interference in

12:40 designing us right from the get-go. I believe at that time, I call it preconception meaning genetically things were altered things were put in place enhanced but i believe now...I should say more than believe..I know now nowadays they can do a post conception they can do it after birth so you think you were born with this mission with this program in mind I'm not sure exactly how much of it specifics wise was in mind, but I'm certain that my birth the whole bit was planned. Wow! And for people who might not be... this might be a little bit foreign to them. Sure. We're talking about fragmented personalities, alters

13:32 How does this programming start? What are the details of what actually goes on because I hear about it in broad strokes quite often but like you know, what really happens here. What are some of your earliest memories of this kind of manipulation Well, kind of like what I'll go back to first what Ron asked about beta and delta. And I learned about those words afterwards. I have memories of the Delta Triangle which is an equilateral sided triangle And I didn't know those words, I didn't know beta and delta. What I discovered after revealing my memories was that I had those types of programming and my main uses just to start were sexually assisted and kill programming

14:18 And often they were, more often than not were used together using the sexual programming to gain access. And then the kill alters would surface in whatever way was deemed necessary at the time and in a particular case as far as... So that means you would seduce a target get him alone and then carry out a kill program? Well, yes and no. Sometimes it appears from my memory, my particular alter memories that not only I wasn't necessarily sent in to seduce but it was pre-planned. Even the target knew that I was going to perform sexually for him

15:06 And in some cases, what I came to realize and you have to understand when I say flooding of memories it doesn't do it justice. As a matter fact, in my opinion from what I've seen in my deprogramming the flooding is also intended to overwhelm the victim and often a lot of people don't survive that process either mentally or physically And when I say flooding, it's many altars bringing many pieces forward. Some of them bringing numerous stories forward and what after a period of time, I began to see that there were very specific things over and over for certain altars. Very particular altars behaved in certain ways and had certain programming and were used by you know certain people for

15:55 very particular things. And one of the things I saw was that one of our main uses, at least with two alters, two of my kill alters was to actually take out members of the network and so i think they knew I was there it appears they were waiting for me for the sexual use but they didn't know that I had kill programming So it seems more like a situation where I'm to get out a context or broader context for this the what's going on behind the scenes, you know You do see a lot of politicians getting caught up in prostitution scandals or you know these child sex abuse rings like Jerry Sandusky's ring that apparently was

16:40 leasing kids to high-profile clients. Is this the kind of situation that you were in and then you also just had these triggers that would, because obviously your attracting high profile clients which could also be those same targets for these people so then they switched, like flipped a switch and it went into a kill program? Exactly. And of course, in almost every case... There's one case I'm not really certain about but in every case that I've been shown, I should say it was a case of the programming was in place prior to my even going out and engaging with these individuals but within the network slaves are used extensively and age doesn't matter they're using very small children all the way up

17:30 you know, whatever age. I mean generally there's a just like in what i call the world of men which is the world everybody else lives in um... you know there's a certain age where you move back to younger people women hit at a certain age and they're not considered as attractive anymore so but within that from childhood on up the heaviest use of sex slaves in that regard is within the network Yeah, it's so it's easy to to set someone up to take a fall if they've you know There's a variety of reasons. They've um, they begin begun the show signs that they don't want to do what they're doing anymore or Or they've uh, they're getting ready You know They get older and they're getting ready to talk about something or write a book or they said something They shouldn't do or they just piss somebody off And you know

18:22 then their usefulness is no more. And it can be used in a couple of ways, a lot of times there's more going on that people don't even see when it becomes a public issue most the time its not a public issue but when it becomes a public issue very clearly meant to send the message to rest of the people in network stay online and we'll come for you too Man, see that's what I think is interesting because you know i've tried to Think about these type of stories and you know see if it makes sense a part of me Is like well why wouldn't you just get a highly trained assassin and just shoot someone but when you think about the? The security involved in the secrecy involved in a situation where you would be A high-level person in the Illuminati network in your You

19:08 having sex with children, the type of security in that environment would also be very conducive to getting rid of that person. If they were showing signs of wanting to do something different or if they had talked too much or something like that because they're gonna feel extremely comfortable and like that's not something that goes on in everyday life so you have to create a safe room for that type of environment. So that very same safe room is also convenient to trigger someone into killing that person off and then being able to do it in secrecy. So, that does make sense to me. Yeah and that's really exactly... I mean early on for most people when they're first or first few times you know where they engage in the scenarios you're talking about there are films made as insurance later. And a lot of these people wind up in the network

20:00 basically being blackmailed, but you have to remember that doesn't condone and make them solely a victim. They become... Every perpetrator is the victim first seriously and that's really hard for people to get wrapped around but you have to victimize someone for them to do the things that the perpetrators do and I know that from firsthand experience. My victimization is very real but it's the very thing that made me a perpetrator working for them. That makes sense." Yeah, you know I've been curious...I don't know how comfortable you are discussing your experiences as a child but are these situations—I mean obviously there's pretty typical sexual abuse but I've heard stories that they are more ritualistic more there's more occult aspects to them they aren't just straight what-you'd-expect have you experienced any weirdness that you could share with us?

20:56 Oh yeah, and you know it's really... I don't mind talking about it. And a lot of that is in both books one and two Basically I set up the book as much of a chronology if I could You have to understand one of the things that happened for me was my sense of time almost non-existent linear time. And so it took a lot of energy to try to, you know as memories came forward to begin the piece and into some chronology and just say I set up book one could basically be a cross section of the early years on through my youth years

21:35 And that's to kind of qualify me so that people understand, you know there is a reason to listen to what I have to say in book two. Then in book two there was some more stuff by the time I finished book 2 there was more information which i kinda have an update section beginning so i'm updating on some of the stuff that we can book one in with greater understanding and then i get into uh... howard began to wake up how i got help what i do now what i consider to be d programming that kind it gives you a review that's why there's two books early on when i have even put cianel

22:20 was it five years in? Is my math right, yeah. It's just over five years into what I call deep-deep programming and that began the day that I met these two men. What has come forward is literally hundreds of fragments maybe...yeah, I would say hundreds from various altars. I'm still uncertain how many alters I have but its number is really high and all this kind of starts here and then we'll go into what you're asking about programming They were created over a period of time, many years. Here's the thing to understand even once you're in your use years heavy what I call the heavy use years, you're still actually creating alters because of what you are doing

23:07 So they're not necessarily being programmed, but your mind is still fragmenting. This helps people—the average person to understand how some people can claim so many alters and what we're talking about too when we are talking about alters is there's full personalities and there's what I call fragment personalities I've met many of both for me, more fragments than full personalities. And the difference is that a full personality if that personality which they don't do this anymore no alters to my awareness take over my body fully or my mind. I coexist with various parts of me there's always more than one of us present nowadays and the full personalities

23:57 back then during the bad years, if a full personality took over they could actually... that alter could actually interact in the world at large around them. You would notice that there was something different about me but I can still function very well and do what I needed to do. Fragments aren't always that way! Sometimes many of the child alters are fragments and when they come up we have no consciousness of the world around them They don't understand life, they don't understand where they live or don't live. They have just a very fragmented view of their world and unfortunately with the child alters it's just always really hard because its either very sexual or pain filled and then there is adult alters that are also used for ritual purposes like you're talking about I believe I have

24:51 I encountered to some degree two of those, some of them to a frightening degree in my DT program where I was still conscious and they did take over my body. My vocal cords everything and then I had a really hard time pulling it out getting back to you know right mind As a child, most of it's really fragmented. There are partial memories or there was a lot of sexual abuse and incest. My father was multiple himself and I don't know how and why he became involved. You know, I don't know the particulars about that. He has passed some years ago but I have memory... ...I don't who is doing this like I started to say earlier being pre-verbal

25:39 and screaming, crying. And then my mouth is stretched wide open but I can't breathe, I can't scream, I can't make any sound like...I can't take breath in." And then it goes back and forth between my screaming, crying and we live this in recent years. In a full adult body I was laying on my back of my bed and if anybody looked at me I was moving like an infant And I was co-conscious while this was being shown to me by this young child. And, I dissociated in the memory just completely shut off you know just staring and feeling nothing and empty inside kind of hard to explain it but it's like you just lose connection everything around you

26:29 And then my next memory is at three years old, and this one's very significant. I was in New Jersey since 1965 and it's not like I'm waking up... It's like when my alters showed me memories the memory would start wherever their consciousness took over so you could already be well into whatever was going on. It's when they wake up and when they leave it ends. So I may have a scenario where I'm in ritual, but only have a piece of the ritual because there's only one altar who showed me their part of it so the rest is not shown to me does that make sense?

27:09 like coming in and catching chapter five of the book, and not getting the rest of the chapters. And it took a long time to realize what was happening so that I could begin to piece things together. Then maybe months later another alter would show another part of that incident or another one, and sometimes I'd figure out that eight months later now I've got another piece with that one particular episode. At three, I become aware and very dissociated. Most of the times when I become aware, I'm very unemotional... you know just kind of existing and in a warehouse it's very large. I call it a warehouse. It looks like a warehouse but I don't know what it was but huge and I am looking down at about 40-45 degree angle there is man below me

28:03 and he's... it's kind of hard to describe, because I'm working from their consciousness, you know the altruist consciousness. But he is a little bit below us and there's… He has been beaten badly. He is in what I call navy denim. They were actually navy issue. And there was blood all over him and something screwed into his head, the left side of his head And there is a chain attached to it, and I still can hear the chain on this twin bed with snow sheets on it. An old metal frame. I can still see the mattress. As he moves this chain just kind of rubs along the metal on the side of the bed

28:46 and he's really out of it. And with that, I'm looking at him and way off to my right I hear voices of men coming... ...and they come around some very high metal shelves which are on the opposite side of this man. And I realized at that point that whatever those shelves are, I am on the same thing on the other side of this man. And I think I know what it is that I'm on but for now I just call it shelves." It's just really hard for me to go there. And so these guys, four of them and they appear around the corner and they're coming in our direction in my altar very unemotionally knows that they're coming to finish him off

29:29 And then they approach and it goes blank. And then another one of my child alters just tells me some things about it, doesn't show it to me. It's like I have... Sometimes I have an understanding they won't present it visually but they'll tell me some other alter will say pick up where left off and say this happened So Elisa, I was wondering as you know i've spoken to quite a few MKUltra survivors over the past 21 years and a lot of them have mentioned talked about having out-of-body experiences. Now is this something that sort of coincide with remote viewing or is this just something that's random? Can you kind of elaborate on that

30:15 Well, first of all when I began DP programming basically just out of my body. I've spent very little time in it due to the years of programming and then use, and actually learned that getting in my body was extremely uncomfortable. It's very painful, um...and I've overcome a lot of that now so you know I think most people think about our body as just on a psychic level an astral plane which is but there's states of being that i think a lot of people really don't fully exist in their bodies so there is varying degrees and they're very extreme. I mean, the low line is you know the mild typical mild dissociation where your driving to work drive everyday but you dont remember your trip when get there everybody does that thats just form of dissociation

31:13 In programming, it goes to the extreme and you can basically live on the outskirts of your body. You're not ever really fully in your body and that's where I existed through our experiences where, and this might get a little challenging for the average person but not only was I used in what we would call three-dimensional physical use like send me to that motel room and do this job. But they also used me outside of my body

31:49 meaning you would be pulled out, which is really easy because you're existing on the outskirts anyway. And you would be utilized in a very esoteric way not only... This is where it gets weird for people but not only in this dimension but crossing in and out of other dimensions and I do have fragmented memories at that same thing where I'm not on this birth at that time, not as we see it. There's something else going on in a completely different place and in deep programming even now it's ongoing meaning I'm in charge of it but I'm still engaging with um...a variety of column windows uh... other times and places other timelines and actually even interacting with other beings

32:44 they are continually trying to regain access, is the way I see it. Regain control So it's not just a human thing there are other beings involved in this whole process and they are cross-dimensional and obviously malevolent intent. So I mean, I've actually flew...I'm talking full consciousness here you know where I can consciously open a window and I've had being popped into those windows and I mean look me right in the eye and you can feel it You are interacting with something that's alive and real just not in this three-dimensional realm Man yeah That's what I really wanted to try to understand that's kind of what I meant by weirder aspects or occult aspects because

33:27 You hear these stories at the highest levels of the elite. They're abusing children and people to harness some type of energy, not only just to display power but also to harness some type of energy or some demonic force from the abused And this is like a really foreign area for me It's hard to wrap my head around, but this seems to be kind of like what you're talking about with different entities and different dimensions. Are these experiences within some type of ritual in a room full of high-level elite? When did these things occur?

34:08 Well, that's part of it as well. Yes and I mean what a lot of people don't understand is in our experience ritual isn't just used to fragment the childs mind who they're programming. That's part of it. It's very real you know horrendous and it's called horrification in many cases. I mean, what they're doing is to horrify and split the mind but the main use of this is to connect with these other malevolent energies entities beings for power that's what this stuff is all about really in my opinion and you know it's kind of like

34:50 We go to war to gain access to a certain region or zone, but the side benefit is they can make a lot of money doing it. It's kind of nothing that I know of that my programmers do for one purpose. There are always multiple purposes for everything they do but the main purpose as far as I can see in my own personal experience is Q usurp and maintain control over the entire human energy field. And that goes for everyone, not just someone like me!

35:26 And so yes, that's very real and yes it can be done and is done extensively in rituals. When you understand what the technology is today... I mean I was born in 1962. I know in the 1980s I met my own clones or I should say became aware of them, I met one of them I know how many there were, and how many are left. And so the technology that was in the late 80s that mine were brought online...I don't know when they were actually designed They weren't designed at my birth, I know that much So here we are in 2013 and stuff I would talk about now people would think I'm talking about science fiction

36:18 So when you understand where it is now and where that energy we're talking about actually resides, which is very much in the technology of today. Our computers our cell phones these are access points. I mean these beings are living in an energy that they can travel with that kind of energy. They don't have to take the same form. We have to break their our mold in our mind of what we think is possible and you know, what we've been told is possible or not possible. I know this, I mean I know it. I know things that I experienced bits and pieces in most of them the reason I couldn't get out was because people said well that's not possible. Well it's interesting what you're saying because as you know I used to work with Fritz Springmeier years ago

37:09 And a lot of his information actually is, I think it's up front and incredible. Although there are other aspects about it that's problematic But that's when I first heard about the whole cloning thing. And, you know, I realized that there is... You know, the technology exists to do it and it has probably been done for years and the motivation behind it as well so To me It's not a foreign thing. It's not like something that's way out there but another thing that I find interesting too Is that I remember watching The X-Files

37:48 There was a couple of episodes where they had the whole cloning thing and it was like whoa You know when you look at some of those old X files now, and you know you hear about some stories like yours And others it's kind of like Chris Carter. He was on to something you know Just wonder where he got a lot of that information from absolutely and you know the The cloning issue, as with so many other issues within what I call the blackest of black projects. The DARPAs and the NRO's and all the...

38:29 the alphabets that don't get as much attention. You know, the forerunners are the ones that are in public eye like the CIA and now of course the NSA you can be assured that if they're catching heat... They are in the game big time but if they're catching the public heat that they've been catching for so many years they've already long had these other agencies with probably don't even know about it and those were the ones running the blackest-of-black projects I really, really believe. I've heard many different versions of how far you know here's our current tech in other words if you were this is the way i judge the current tech if you go into say scientific american or some technology magazine and you read articles they tell you what's going to be coming out in x amount of years that's a gauge

39:17 at about 50 to 100 years onto what they're talking about is going to happen, at 50-100 years in the Black Project. And that's just in this age meaning... In this point in human history! This is not new. If you go back and study various civilizations, ancient civilizations I mean there's actual physical proof on this Earth that things have been done over and over And to me, what those beings are attempting is a very particular ultimate control. That's what this is really all about and they've come close over and over but what happens almost it's almost like an implosion They can't quite succeed in you know they take out the region then wipe that come close to wiping out with you know what they had their hand in creating But this has done over and over but in this age

40:13 Go to the highest tech magazine, read what they're talking about that is coming in the relatively 10-15-20 year future. Add 50 to 100 years for that and that is what's actualized. Actualized! Not necessarily being worked on it's actualized in the blackest of black projects That's where the money goes And I'm not the only one reporting this. It's really hard because when you come forward, the context of the average person is so far removed from this. You know as one person said there it's divorced completely divorced from the reality of mind control

40:52 But there's others that have come forward. Some of us, you know when we come forward here is the thing to remember a lot of us are still being used it's... I have this saying once MKUltra always MKUltra and what i mean by that isn't that you can wake up an take charge your life but you have stay constantly rigorously self-honest everyday because they have an automatic in and a lot of people can be used to disinform. And I know one person, I won't name that came forward and talked about his clones and then he recanted. And said it was something else and this guy is so programmed I mean, it's just so obvious but he's in the public sector and has been now for a few years. So Righty Lisa yet we've talked about that before a lot There's a lot of MK ultra survivors who are putting out you know their stories whether it be on the internet or in books and seems unfortunately A lot of the stories are conflicting

41:55 appears to be have a certain amount of disinformation or misinformation, or even possibly cross-contamination. What's your take on a lot of the survivors that are coming out and telling their stories? Well, my first thing I want to say is that I thank him immensely because every story I have read or seen a video or whatever at this point which I didn't do early on. I wanted to say I waited a certain amount of time until a ton of my own information had already come forward but now I find it helpful

42:31 I get a lot of corroboration, validation from other stories as Iím sure works for all of us. So I really want to thank them because it takes a lot of courage to come forward and tell a story that makes you sound like youíre crazy to the average person. Secondly anything that I would say about in general about other people with misinformation and disinformation also applies to me. Meaning we all have to stay rigorously honest, and it's really difficult. And I mean if any of us are running at 65-75% truth

43:07 Excellent. I mean, seriously! You know all of this stuff is compartmentalized... All of it's going to be just based on one person and all their alters' experiences And so you know i've been misled by my own altars. I had that case happen where I would discover months or a year later who she really was and that she was coming up trying muddy the waters So it's a constant ongoing rigorous honesty, but I think it is important to realize that...I realized this in my own case that even in deprogramming its kind of planned. In other words when you start to wake up if you survive the process there are already pre-set

43:54 like the first thing to show up was all these child alters who flooded my mind with all this information and what they have is incredibly important, but at the same time they're young and they're extremely emotional. And so someone witnessing it would think I was crazy And then after that, the older alters started to show up. But they plan on you not surviving this process so in the beginning you just look like your totally flipping out and having a total mental breakdown but if time is allowed to occur and you can stay sane and keep going forward

44:31 you'll start to see that it's actually very informative and it takes a set schedule as information starts to appear. So, it is really important for me personally that I stay very vigilant and not present stuff that is false or misleading or whatever. So, that goes for all of us. I won't single myself out of that group but we all just have to... And a lot of survivors know that. cases where people have come forward and written books, and then a few years later even they are making some corrections to their own programming. And what they revealed so it applies to all of us To just stay really honest and that goes for the researchers too Don't be afraid to say it's not what I thought Well, I mean, it's definitely

45:28 some pretty fringe material. It's not something you hear in the mainstream, but I've heard it plenty in the underground and one thing that I was curious about and wanted to ask you about your personal story... How did you break free? How were you able to deprogram? Did you have to escape handlers because people would want to protect their investment so how did you get out of there clutches Well, I'll be really honest and vulnerable here in this. And when someone asks me why haven't they killed you? My response is they are! And I'm having a physical and mental and spiritual degradation that goes on all the time particularly physically. I am in pretty rough shape.

46:15 and I never really feel like I know how much time I have left. At the suggestion of one of the men that I met in 2008, I call upon what I call benevolent unconditional creative love just that highest completely unconditional non-judgmental form of love and it's a force that I've gained a conscious relationship with and it doesn't keep me from being harmed, and doesn't make me invincible in body or mind. But in spirit, it does protect me. I'm not a religious person. I have a lot of issues with religion for a variety of reasons in my programming and youth but this force is very real

47:01 and I don't mean to be evasive or non-committed in trying to describe it. It's just really hard to put into words, but like I started calling upon it early on and I kept doing it and I've actually had very physical experiences where it worked meaning whatever was going on had to stop whatever was being projected onto on to me by the smell of one had to disappear for that period time. It's something I have to exercise consistently daily and before I go to sleep at night, again when I wake up in the morning so i'm not invincible. I believe that I will ultimately die of this meaning I will leave the body and some disease

47:44 awful form and I'm laughing because it's just ridiculous, you know. But as far as them trying to take me out that did happen on a couple of occasions And one of them, I got a really clear message get out now. And I thwarted the program that was about to take place and that's happened more than once and it was very sobering. I realized this is early on when I realize what I'm up against. Ultimately that became, when I was strong enough it became a spiritual issue as well. Even well over a year into my DP programming they were still showing up. I came to the town I'm living in right now and there were two of them waiting for me. The first one moved in as a friend within the first 2 weeks

48:34 And it took me, this is how it works. I mean when you're accessed, it took me a good year and half to be strong enough to see it clearly enough to spiritually disconnect so that person couldn't access anymore and I kid you not two months later he came in the end was leaving town. And I don't know if the two are related but I certainly believe they were. He was being called back to Maryland, back to intelligence headquarters. So it's not like it stops when people... I don't feel like I get out. I feel like I'm managing my life

49:12 in a way that I can't be used anymore and I'm minimizing to the best ability. I can be accessing I Love bright mind now, I love right mind even though my body is you know having a lot of trouble My mind is mine And but I have to stay up for vigilance Yeah, that's it sounds pretty exhausting but I mean who are these people? There is a lot of debate about how long we've been under the control of the same elite families who hold this esoteric and occult knowledge. And some suggest this type of mind control is not a new development that its like ancient knowledge has been used in secret societies for possibly thousands years. Do you have any insight into that through your interactions with these programmers

49:59 I sure do. And when I say the programmers, I'm talking about those beings You know, the men and women that were part of my programming controlling and handling youths and those who hired me out for in whatever way are the human version but there is definitely a very truly malevolent evil force that takes the form of beings that is running this. And it might answer to your question if eons old when you really get to see it, it's actually cyclical. This has been going on over and over and It looks different in each age but the same thing at work And there is an ultimate goal as I mentioned in the beginning of this show and that is to control the entire human populace not to kill it not take it out or

50:52 on they really like. I don't know if it's necessary for them, but it is something they very much enjoy and I believe as malevolence they do not have access to on their own. And so I believe we were usurped or co-opted. Humans are a very benevolent species spiritually and what we're looking at the way we are is not what we started out They co-opted, they came in and made some changes even genetically many years ago.

51:33 in my opinion that's what happening again now uh... we're talking five to six figure numbers of years later they're making a big push right now with sound and light technology which is what they use back then and this transhumanism which is the next uh... the next move of genetic manipulation which is what they used back them and the goal is ultimate complete and utter control and really scary part Are we running out of time? No, but basically I just wanted to touch upon something briefly. When i was visiting you about a year and a half ago we watched this documentary video documentary on Ray Kurzwell and transhumanism so is that

52:23 What you're kind of eluding to in terms of this process, how humans are changing or combining robotics and utilizing nanotechnology to create a whole different type of entity? Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Kurzweil is the public face and he's extremely high level and a very dark and dangerous man but like everybody else it's not one person or just one certain group this is a massive global network

53:04 What they're really pushing for, and this is the scary part is it's not just for people like me anymore. They want it for everyone. They want it for you and your kids and your dog and your cat and the plants in the trees. And that's what the nanotech is about. That's what the chemtrails impart are about. It's about changing everything from what it is naturally into a biotech, an organic tech. It's not going to be the real deal anymore and that's what nanotech is going to do if we don't stop this and its coming to everybody's home in the scary part is their goal is to mind control everyone but they're not gonna

53:53 it's obvious the method, you're just going to get up one day and everybody is going to be under it and no one is going to know what happened. And that is the version that they are working on. They have not actualized in a mass scale but they are still experimenting with... There are people absolutely, not a lot but there are people who have literally been uploaded their mind is now living inside AI And this is mostly for the high-level victims and high level dissidents. I know, uh...I don't want you or me to name the person, Ron that i'm thinking of but she went after someone in the 90s right? Right. They decided to—I'm absolutely convinced that what she's relaying it not been at least a bit delusional based on my own experiences She's trying to relay that she's living in hell

54:50 And it sounds crazy. It sounds like she lost her mind She did but she didn't, her mind is elsewhere Right and then there's an investigative journalist a writer conspiracy writer who personally told me the same thing back in when was this I think it was 2008 he talked about And this is before I read the Deciphering the Matrix and The Soul Catcher book by Dr. Robert Duncan, he told me... Glad you mentioned those! Yeah right He told me that He can no longer write about mind control. He can write about political stuff but he said that he's uploaded now so everything he senses

55:33 being manipulated, recorded. So basically his eyes, his perception of what's going on can be altered just drastically but he's sort like a human recording device too wherever he goes and sometimes you'll say things that he doesn't really mean but he has no control over that so everything And it was very disheartening for him and I know that over the past couple of years He's just been sort of just wandering about but he's trying to get back into you know writing again But again, he only has so much control about what he can put out in this individual

56:15 Was my hero back in the 90s. I mean he was a consummate conspiracy writer and he was writing about mind control and the interesting thing too is He was exposing The same person as as The woman you were referring to so that's the commonality they have they were exposing this person then boom all of a sudden They get uploaded So they, what they've got going and by the way everything you just talked about with that guy told you I also shared in 2008 when I sat down with these two men. through my eyes and ears is being recorded, I said that I have no idea how they do it. They looked at each other and said we'll go into that assumption. They used the word shunt at that time. That was their version of it but now as you know, you have access to patents this is real technology

57:09 And I knew it, and I didn't know how to dismantle it. I have since spiritually dismantled it and I'm absolutely certain that you can't facilitate anymore. It's hard to explain but you feel it! but what this person is talking about, they can... you know for the average person you're not going to have to live in that hell. They are going to create a life that won't even- You won't even know if it's switched. You don't even know if you've been uploaded It'll look like your life It will look like a normal so-called life, but for those who are high level Want to get rid of them don't talk or dissidents or researchers who have gone after the wrong person They can design in these programs Basically a hell and they can upload you there. So that's the punishment version

58:01 Mm-hmm crazy stuff. I know, it sounds It sounds crazy until you've been far enough in it when you've been in and you come out You have a piece of the truth and remember that anybody who's been in it comes out has part of it We all have parts of the truth we don't none of us has at all I mean, I do appreciate you sharing this story a couple other things I wanted to ask you about was uh You know, a lot of people throw the MKUltra label around pretty loosely in the conspiracy community. But when you look at people like Sirhan Sirhan or Mark David Chapman or even this John Holmes of The Dark Knight shooting... People claim that they're a victim of these things Do you see some characteristics that are consistent with what you've experienced in them?

58:46 Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean to me basically darn near everyone that's in the public now that has perpetrated these various acts... These are all absolutely all mind-controlled and when you understand what the technology is now they don't have to take someone from the beginning. They're still doing it. They're always going to do trauma based mind control and they're going to always genetically work in there, and there's always going to be groups of higher level slaves. But in a general populace they can pick anyone any age and come after them and they look for very particular precursors that signify that this would be a good candidate. They'll test some out, some don't work as well so they drop them and move on but when they find the right brain map signals it

59:34 My understanding is it takes six to eight months to map your brain through a series and you'll know because stuff will be happening. Once they get it, they can control you and there's a very particular frequency that Robert Duncan which Ron just mentioned, very important book, Project Soul Catcher And then the Matrix Deciphered. And The Matrix Deciphered you can find online, I think in PDF for free. Project Soul Catcher there's a subtitle do you remember the subtitle Ron? No I don't Okay, it's Project Folkpture subtitle and it's Robert Duncan and you can buy that on Amazon. These are two very very important books I'm not saying I agree with absolutely every conclusion that Robert Duncan draws he doesn't go into the spiritual aspect he is very science but its unprecedented science and of course in his case compartmentalized as well so he's revealing what coming

1:00:35 and he doesn't have all the information that some others of us know, a lot of this has already been actualized. And new! But very important books. I don't know if I answered your question. I kind of forgot, but oh Just I just wanted to know if people like some of these high-profile assassins Yeah Sirhan sirhans or the John Holmes from the dark knight shooting absolutely you saw similarities in there and their situations that did point to them being mind controlled Sometimes for me like in the case you remember Jared Lee Loughner and Tucson yes years ago mm-hmm

1:01:13 when I saw his picture, I knew. I didn't even know what the story was and then I got into the story and yeah there were very particular things and it's kind of hard to explain because it's that Twilight language... I don't know if you've heard the term but it's not always so obvious like okay he had a 9mm, I actually have an alter that was programmed, that's her gun. The 9mm is the gun she shoots And you see a 9mm a lot in these cases. They either had one or have access to it, or had one at the house... So there's those real physical things but there are other things. There are little things that barely get mentioned once and then never seen again in the articles. What they were doing before what did what they did? What were talking about? Certain words they said? All kinds of thing. And like Sirhan, some of the cases are saying

1:02:08 basically saying after you get thrown in jail, they're telling people about their programming. Basically without really being able to describe it and that's how it looks. It's once you know what to look for and as far as Aurora and the Black Knight stuff Ron knows this I mean I had already sent my book out and I talk about my black knight programming like Batman programming and then John Holmes happened after the fact. As a matter of fact, I think Ilana Freeland went on with Clyde Lewis on Ground Zero and talked about it because she already had the paperwork when the event occurred so yeah there's very...it's happening in this latest one of driving into the White House and she claimed this woman Miriam Carey claimed that the president was monitoring her There is no doubt in my mind that they hit her with tech from afar

1:03:03 and sent her in her car into the fence at the White House. That's what it looks like now, in non-high level use they're just picking people out brain mapping them and you know they're up and running in less than a year for one event and they're all expendable as far as their concerned. Now another sector where this mind control is talked about a lot is in Hollywood I mean with pop stars like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus do you see elements in their personalities when you look at them that make you think that they were also put through this type of abuse and control that your claiming? Absolutely, and I know there's some stuff out there that actually shows Britney Spears

1:03:48 switching alters on an interview. I mean, it's when you know what to look for and always you know it's not only just in your face sometimes they can be really subtle especially if they're in the public eye but she's... You know? And then all the mental breakdowns, um.. All the symbolism is you know they're half naked They look dress everybody dresses like whores and they're all making all the esoteric symbols and devotions to Lucifer and Satan. It's not entertainment, I have a chapter in my book called Enter Entrainment The entire music industry is a mind control mechanism

1:04:30 And when you understand, I mean I was actually programmed to an actor. Actually two actors One of them I was programmed to which is part of this Dark Knight stuff To go see every movie of his kind of like What was it? Some Ilana said to me after I shared that with her like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. Yeah, the movie where you go buy a certain book Well, I was doing that with a movie In the Batman series, I would have one and I would compulsively want to buy more this is when I was indie programming and And then there was another actor that I was actually

1:05:12 Program two years ago for a potential program kill program that never took place and I had no idea You know in deep programming. Why would anyone programming this actor? Why did they want to kill him and it turns out he's been a high-level activist For several decades, and I guess caused a lot of trouble trouble for the Bush family as well so So well this has got me thinking about the Dark Knight and and Christian Bale assume is here who you're talking about but yeah So could it be possible to mind control someone to go and see every Christian Bale movie, and then there'd be some deeper trigger that when you see this particular movie that's when a switch goes off and guns start coming out?

1:05:59 Yes, absolutely. And that's basically what happened with me and the Christian Bale films I'm obsessively buying and watching If it was coming out in a theater...I mean I was like calling the theater asking them what day because I had to be there right away And I had started deprogramming thank goodness! I already met two guys in April and that summer Batman Begins came out And that was the first one that Christian I think did with The Dark Knight of the Dark Knight series. And, I think it was Batman, it may have been the next one, I can't even remember. It was. Batman Begins and then The Dark Knight and then The Dark Knight Rises

1:06:41 Okay, it may have been the dark night. I think it was the dark night actually the first one and Completely set me off. I'm driving away from the theater I was on my cell phone with a man that one of them but I met in April 2008 has stayed with me Bill were friends But he just listened to everything for like two years God bless his soul I mean I put what they put this guy through but I was on the phone and I was just screaming, the rage and these alters that were surfacing. I had to kill something and you know i didn't really understand it but luckily I had already started deprogramming and was aware enough

1:07:23 just go home and I was, you know we were on the phone for probably an hour or two. And I was just ranting and pacing and screaming until I calmed down. And I really didn't understand what's happening but I told him it was a film and you know I get really emotional when its this stuff and this is what going on and its real fast paced and frantic. I just want to say that's really interesting because we just recently talked about on the show that there seems to be a manipulation on the actor side as well like Jim Carrey is A resonator for The Green Man or you know Christian Bale He seems to be in these kind of strange movies, like of course The Dark Knight movies But also American Psycho seems to be layered and symbolism as well. So it seems like this manipulation

1:08:11 across the board and uh... you know these actors are pawns to create this media that resonates these symbols just as much as your activated to be triggered by him absolutely both in the in the film and music industry and if u i'd carry out my brought christian bale for programming to him to get human in back in two thousand eight i don't know when i brought it to my work with them for a little while and Excuse me, I brought that forward and so I started looking at Christian Bale. And I just did a real superficial look at his life and there's so many classic symbols of the esoteric mind control. Now I can't say whether he was actually physically present or not but now know they can put people in my actual programming session with my alters and I believe it is that person

1:09:04 and it looks like that person to me. And I have a very clear, clear recollection of that programming session with him and there were actually tables of people on both the left and the right these men that i call the observers and they were sitting silently watching us as if we were engaging in real life but my alter became aware out of the corner of my eye that these people or these men were here and why are they staring at us? And of course, the person... if it was Christian Bell I honestly can't tell you. If it was him or someone that was being presented as him It looked like him to my alter But he seemed to be completely unaware of these people on either side of us So I'm suspecting that they put someone in playing that role

1:09:55 for him, but I have no problem believing that Christian Bale and I do mention this in the book that I do believe he is programmed. And there's many others that...and some people like myself who have come forward in written books even talk about actors being perpetrators. Some of them are their mind controlled themselves and they use sex slaves and so forth That was something I want, we do it's about that time we wrap it up but I did want to ask you if there were any lesser talked-about people that have popped up in media stories or pop culture that you think might also show signs of being victims. Well, I won't be able to really name specifics but I can tell you this the industry works like this You wanna be in the industry? You wanna be a star

1:10:47 It's like any other ritual realm. You come in and there are compromises things you're going to have to do as you start to go up. If you want to be popular, there's things that are demanded of you and I'm not talking about just rituals although i think a lot of the high-level music industry and film stars have had to go through actual rituals. I think these people actually have altars but there are things that you will continually be asked to compromise and what that does is creates a vulnerability that allows the entry influence of these malevolent beings. That's how it works, that's why it was done to me, that's why it's done to them is they are literally put inside you they become the first-line handler. The physical person handler is in addition okay? You've got these beings running you

1:11:43 And it happens every time you compromise. When the ego gets in there and, you know, do you want to be successful? Do you want to be powerful? Whatever that is their way in. Man! It seems like a slippery slope. It does. Well Elisa this has been really an eye-opening hour for sure I hope the people found your story as interesting as I did I really wish you the best of luck in your future and your recovery. It's sad to hear things about victims who've undergone these types of abuses, so thank you for sharing them. Do you want to tell people where they can get your books or do you have a website? I'd love to! I have a website, a blog site and you can click on the link there that will take you right to the book at Amazon or you go to amazon.com

1:12:31 and my website is www.ourlifebeyondmkultra.wordpress.com but if you want to just go to Amazon, they're both for sale in both forms the print on demand and the e-book. Wow! Alright well man thanks so much I'm still processing a lot of what's going on today but i definitely appreciate it and again best of luck thanks for being here Thank you, Greg. Appreciate it. Thanks Ron. Okay was good talking with you We'll talk to you again soon great. Bye-bye Damn man run interesting stuff, huh? Very much So yeah like I said, I've known Elisa for a few years and there's only probably about four MK ultra survivors that I correspond with on a regular basis and that's not to discount or

1:13:24 you know, the plethora of other survivors but she's very cogent lucid and her story is extremely compelling. Yeah I definitely heard some things for the first time but you know a lot of it fits the narrative if its in there with what other people are talking about in that realm so I definitely appreciate your bringing on those great suggestion I mean is there anything else you got popping off they want to tell the people about? Well hopefully the fall 2013 issue of Paranoia Magazine will be out I would say within a couple of weeks. We've had some delays because unfortunately, I'm having a legal battle with my magazine distributor and so the funds just weren't there however people can go online to purchase the PDF version of Paranoia Magazine

1:14:15 and they just need to go to www.paranoiamagazine.com, and then just click onto the store, and there it is! Yeah man, you've been so cool in hooking me up with a lot of the paranoia issues lately and I mean people it really is some of the best articles in the conspiracy world. I love that it covers so many broad topics and I've been saying to Ron there should be a PDF version because that's just the way things are now as much as I love seeing hard copies People just don't do that anymore. You know, they're all about those Kindles and those Nooks and Now that you're able to get it on there I highly suggest people check it out It's really awesome stuff! I love it It's where I get most of my conspiracy Information from and before I pull a lot of guests from so I do appreciate getting me squared away with that It's awesome right? And then actually all the previous

1:15:14 Additions of Paranoia will be up on the website in PDF form. And so I guess that would be a total about 57 and they're reasonably priced at $3, and So that's going to be a gradual process but check out the website periodically and I think you'll notice more and more of the issues that will be online Awesome man. Well hey, thanks for coming to the pad and thanks for bringing Elisa to the table It's been a blast! Hey my pleasure we'll see you again soon Later people Transmitter Send us your message in every direction of our transmitter I'm meant to deal with the statements You've placed on the trans Wait for my signal then Transmitter You can convey words i'm not saying Hell bends along the fine line between running into mystery out of time

1:16:24 I can't make up my mind Transmitter! Replay and all i can tell you is it's an illusion Transmitter Have you no patience for those who are drawing a hasty conclusion? Transmitter See, no reason to tell you the secrets that I am keeping Transmitter What she has told you is far-perceiving

1:17:06 I might just make my mind up and I'll know just what to say. In every direction you send a transmission. In every direction you send your transmission. Transmitter! In every direction you send your transmission. Transmitter!

1:17:55 Okay, we're ready now.