THC 26: Stan Friedman | Roswell, Flying Saucers, & The Science

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Hello, Hireside Chatters! Greg Carlwood here along with my good friend and occasional co-host Kyle. Hello Kyle my man! Hello Greg Well let me tell you last week I took my special lady to this place that served a $65 Sunday in a goddamn pint glass and that was nothing compared to the treat i have for you tonight people A genuine nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman got his masters of science and physics at the University of Chicago in 1955

01:02 For 14 years he worked for companies like GE, GM, McDonnell Douglas and Westinghouse on highly advanced and classified programs involving nuclear aircraft fission fusion rockets in various nuclear power plants for use on land and in space. He left the corporate world appropriately in the 60s to forge a new path as a researcher and lecturer on flying saucers and ufology having now lectured before more than 600 colleges and 100 professional groups across all 50 states around this big crazy rock He's provided written testimony to congressional hearings, appeared twice at the UN and now in what is sure to be the highlight of an impressive career he joins us on my Stupid Stoner Show. The $65 Sunday of Ufology Stan. I'm clearly speechless thanks a million for being here how are you? I think i am glad to be on

01:50 You know, I hope so too. But let's get into it! Stan, I really respect intelligence because mine is so limited as Kyle could probably tell you but coming off that intro having been on such a conventional trajectory for successful young scientists what led you to break from the mainstream philosophy to reject the idea of alien spacecraft outright and ignore any data associated with it? It's the reverse. I jumped into looking at data and looked at a lot more data and found a lot of stuff that hadn't known existed, started to lecture professional groups responded extremely well to the programs and when the bottom fell out of the advanced nuclear in space systems business as it did in 1970, I gave my first lecture in 1967. I went full-time euphologizing if I can make up

02:38 and I found that there was enormous public interest. Iíve spoken to almost colleges and professional groups, but the thing is I canít reject the acceptance of the professional community. One of my early talks was at the Engineering Society of Detroit for example where they were sold out for 1,008 people for dinner and a talk and there wasnít one negative question. These are not a bunch of nutty guys up there in Detroit. I spoke to the American Nuclear Society section at Los Alamos National Laboratory and we had over 500 people with no negative questions or responsive so I decided since Iím a ham, I enjoyed being on stage and response was so good

03:23 I worried the first year or two if somebody was going to say something which throws out everything that I thought was true and I'll have to bury my head in the sand. No, it didn't happen that way as a matter of fact. One of the problems here is that people really are interested in this subject and most of them except some UFOs, aliens spacecraft but they're afraid to admit it. There's a laughter curtain that has been erected by the nasty noisy negativist, the naysaying newsman, the fossilized physicist.

04:13 What I have tried to do is to take advantage of that, fill the space with facts and data solid information. In my early lectures especially, I focused on five large-scale scientific studies and after each one, I was nasty enough to ask how many people here have read this? I know that it was fewer than 2% all the time. So, I know that Iím presenting information that people arenít really aware of because the popularizers of negative movements havenít told them about it so Iím filling a need and replacing ìOh boy!î with ìEverybody else is interested tooî and a good illustration at this end of many

05:02 I will ask the first question, how many people here believe that they have seen what I would describe as applying saucer? I've given definitions early in the lecture and I'll make a joke. We didn't let the CIA in and it's okay just raise your hand and all point and count when I start doing that, their hands go up reluctantly you can tell we just barely get over their heads but on stage I can see them by the time I get off to my right, their hands go up probably Each person thought he was the only one. Typically, it's 10%. How many of you reported what you saw? Ninety percent of the hands go down. When people come up to my table and they want me to sign their books or whatever, they've got to tell me their story. They've got to tell somebody who's not going to laugh at them and that's me. I laugh with a nasty noisy negative. And we'll ask after listening to this story, I'll say did you report it? No. Why not?

06:07 They think I was some kind of a nut. That was really the most common answer, so Iím trying to do something about that and I mention this because a lot of people think that you must get a hard time because you come on so strong because I start every lecture by saying that Iíve reached four major conclusions after two Gee now it's what 54 years since I began studying you if you follow me if you will My birthday is Sunday. I'll turn 78 Happy early birthday Peter Jennings was born on July 29th and so is Benito Mussolini. What I find is that people are interested, they want to do something about it but they don't know how.

07:00 So I try to fill that void with facts, with data and I raise all the objections of the nasty noisy negativists and demolish them. I don't ignore them! And you see the four major conclusions are very straightforward One, the evidence is overwhelming that plundered earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft In other words some underline 37 times Some UFO's are really in space Most are not Only one has be really Most people arenít seven feet tall. A basketball coach says, ìWhat do I care? Give me one!î The second conclusion is weíre dealing with a cosmic water gate ñ not a neat turn of phrase but what I mean is some few people within major governments have known since at least July 1947 that indeed some UFOs are alien spacecraft. You donít keep secrets by telling everybody and hoping nobody will talk.

07:55 You release as little information as possible. I worked under security for 14 years, and I've been to 20 archives so you know how many zillions of documents there are out there that you don't have access to. The third conclusion is that there are no good arguments against the first two conclusions! And the fourth conclusion is we're dealing with the biggest story in the millennium which is the planet Earth by alien spacecraft successfully covered up with the best data bodies and wreckage I was just in Roswell to celebrate the 65th anniversary of the Roswell incident in 1947. There are four problems when you try to listen to debunkers and there are four techniques, four rules that they abide by. One is don't bother me with the facts my mind has made up.

08:49 What the public doesnít know, Iím not going to tell them. Three, if you can attack the data, attack the people and itís easier and nobody will know the difference. Four, do your research by proclamation. Investigation is too much trouble and whoís going to know? As soon as you recognize these and keep listening for signs One of the biggest debunkers for example was a guy named Philip Klass who wrote several anti-UFO books, senior avionics editor for Aviation Week and Space Technology. On two different appearances on Larry King he talked about the book that was under discussion

09:30 One was by Dr. David Jacobs who specializes in abductions and all those people have mental health problems. Phil is trained in electrical engineering, the foreword to the book was written by Dr. John Mack, a Harvard psychiatrist who thinks he'd be in better position as judge. Anyway halfway through the program Larry asked him if he read the book? The same thing happened a second time with the different book. You learn to be very wary of pronouncements from on high and to make sure that the people have actually looked at the evidence, and one of my pet communities is the SETI community, search for extraterrestrial intelligence

10:13 They're just not doing it right. Frankly, SETI should stand for silly effort to investigate because based on bad science they are assuming for some reason that aliens are sending messages to us and secondly they're assuming that they're using technology thatís appropriate to our technology. Weíve had long distance radio since 1901. There are stars, my favorite stars from which aliens originated on planets around.

10:56 Itís the constellation of Reticulum, you canít see them from here. You got to go below the equator. These come out of the Betty and Barney Hill story and thereís a whole chapter in the book captured the Betty and Barney Hill UFO experience by myself and Kathleen Martin who is Bettyís niece has all the hypnosis tapes and all the rest for that. Anyway those base stars, The 39.3 light years away, which is just down the street you understand? They're only an eighth of a light year apart which means that 30 times closer to each other than we are to the next star over so we're out in the boondocks and a little extra detail they're cool billion years older than the sun

11:38 Now, you think they're stuck with our technology from 111 years ago? That's absurd. When we start looking at the evidence we find out that none of the arguments stand up I mean you can't get here from there You canít get from Fredericton, New Brunswick where I live to Los Angeles in 10 hours on a bicycle or in a car but getting the right airplanes you can do it. Or you get onto the space station and it goes around the whole planet in 90 minutes It took Magellanís ship three years to go around the planet back in 1522. That was not long ago on a cosmic time scale and the kicker here is that I worked on nuclear fission rockets

12:28 I think you have a picture of one of them. It says Phoebus on it, toward the bottom and that was tested in the late 1960s. It was built by Los Alamos and its big brother Phoebus II, I think I sent you the Phoebus 1. Less than seven feet in diameter, power level 4400 megawatts. That's twice Hoover Dam if you want something to compare it to which is just a little bit more The exhaust temperature uses liquid hydrogen and goes in liquid, comes out very hot gas. Temperature is about 4300 degrees Fahrenheit and it worked!

13:15 That's nuclear fission. I worked on a study of nuclear fusion, that's really the exciting kind of propulsion system. Fusion for people who don't recognize is the major source of energy throughout the universe all the stars produce their energy not by burning gas but by nuclear fusion processes. Itís a little more efficient than burning gas or even than fission because the right stuff in the right way can kick particles out of the back end of a fusion rocket that have 10 million times as much energy per particle as they can get into a dumb old chemical rocket,

13:53 It's one of the things about the SETI guys, they never refer to the advanced propulsion systems. They think that it has to be developed at a university and two guys told me frankly that if Roswell really happened Stan, they would have had to pull half the physicists out of colleges across the country and I laughed because you've got Don't you realize that we got national laboratories like Los Alamos, Oak Ridge and Hanford and Sandia and Lawrence Livermore? We've got companies like GE and Westinghouse and Lockheed and Boeing. There are plenty of guys with appropriate security clearances and very sharp talents out there.

14:37 The Manhattan Project was done in secret, thatís the first thing. Some people say it involves as many as 100,000 people and others say only 60,000. It was a gaseous diffusion plant at Oak Ridge, Tennessee used 5% of the electrical power produced in the United States to pump uranium hexafluoride gas through little holes and nickel barriers in order to enrich it in U-235. The plant was a mile long, done in secret used 5% of the electrical power in the United States and it was in Tennessee because they had TVA, Tennessee Valley Authority. They produced electricity and you know with a big project

15:26 As an example, I worked on aircraft nuclear propulsion systems and when people look at me they say what are you talking about? I work for General Electric Aircraft Nuclear Propulsion Department in Cincinnati. In 1958 we spent $100 million dollars That was a lot of money for 1958. We employed 3,500 people of whom 1,100 were engineers and scientists. This wasn't eight professors and 25 grad students! This is a major undertaking. Would you believe that we have nuclear-powered aircraft carriers that can operate for 18 years without refueling? I read that in the book, and it was the first time I'd ever heard of that. That's crazy! It is crazy but this illustrates – and this wasn't done in academia, it was done in industry, of course – but that's nuclear fission. Now look at the progression from

16:25 From 1944, we had 10-ton blockbusters. That was the name for our biggest bombs and they weighed like ten tons of explosives and made a big hole in the ground. In 1945 we tested the first atomic bomb that produced the energy of about 19,000 tonnes of explosives. We really went at it in 1952 with the first nuclear fusion device 10 million tons of TNT. That was a three-mile wide fireball! What do you think they're at today? We know that the Russians tested a bigger one, 57 million tons of explosive energy release equivalent and fortunately things have slowed down. People don't realize we've exploded

17:18 There are 2,000 nuclear weapons on this planet and the point of mentioning this is that it gets you to one of the key questions. Why would they come here? Why don't they land on a White House lawn, why don�t they sit down for tea or whatever. Let's step back and look at those numbers I just gave you. We used weapons during the war. In World War II we killed 60 million of our own kind. Some people say 70, but Iím very conservative so I only said 60. And we destroyed 1700 cities.

18:06 Now, if you were an alien would you want us out there? I don't think so. No of course not! And why come here to make sure we don't go out there?! You gotta keep tabs on the primitives in the neighborhood but only close tabs on the primitives will show signs that are being able to bother YOU. What better place to do that in 1947 than the Nevada desert? That's where we were testing a lot of our cutting edge technology amirite? Douglas Brinkley Well, look in July 1947 at the time of Roswell there were three signs that any visiting alien would notice that would indicate soon we'd be moving out. Nuclear weapons, powerful rockets, the German B-2s our first nuclear weapon test was in 1945 at Trinity site which is on the grounds of White Sands Missile Range which where we're testing to capture German rockets and where we had our best radar

19:00 which is the beginning of the electronics revolution really just before World War II. And that's where Roswell is, in southeastern New Mexico. Now admittedly I had a very haughty British astronomer say on a television program they could have gone to the Soviet Union and he said no sorry they didn't test their first nuclear weapon until 1949 so uh...I can understand them being there I can understand their concern with us and I can understand the military's concern with the aliens. I have personally heard seven stories of airplanes, military planes chasing UFOs and not coming back. If I've heard seven such stories it would be a lot more than that and people don't realize it but in 1952

19:55 The military gave orders, that was a big year for UFO sightings. Shoot them down if they don't land when instructed to do so. That's what was said! Those were the orders it was in the newspapers and they even named the military officer and there was an Air Force general who shortly thereafter said we've scrambled him 300 times What can I say? There is a lot going on. The Mutual UFO Network largest UFO group around, has been getting over 600 sighting reports a month for years. That's a lot of sightings! Something is definitely happening. Yeah it is and the point isn't that I'm saying every UFO sighting an alien spacecraft of course not

20:48 And every isotope of uranium is not fashionable either. So what? Right, it only takes one if one is that's that's you know history changing Yeah, and that's the thing. History has been changing and some people may get a little upset when I say we're primitive society whose major activity is tribal warfare but the US just passed a new military budget the other day 600 billion dollars You throw in the rest of the planet and Earthlings will spend approximately a trillion dollars this coming year. That's sad! And thousands of children die every single day of preventable disease or starvation, that tells you a lot about this planet I think... Yeah, I mean I feel like so many people would hear what you're saying and feel the exact same way but it just kind

21:45 In one way it seems to be outside of our control. There seem to people who want to operate a certain way and no matter which leaders we tend to elect, they always always seem to just want to engage in warfare It's an unfortunate circumstance. That that's how you get votes isn't it? I'm stronger than their guy! Apparently so um now let me ask you about Roswell because, you know, you reopened the case in 1970 when no one was talking about it You've done tons of research still doing it today probably for 40 years you've been talking about it But I got to have you walk me through the Roswell case because there's so much wild speculation that they were Japanese POW experiments or

22:25 There were no bodies or crash test dummies. So what does it look like to you, the Roswell case? Well there are more creepy stories than you can shake a stick at First of all we have to recognize that nobody came running to me with the Roswell story Hey Stan I got a good one for ya! Right. First of all...I was in Baton Rouge Louisiana at a television station promoting my lecture that night this is 1978 promoting my lecture that night at Louisiana State University And I had done two interviews, I was supposed to do a third one at the station and the reporter was nowhere to be found. No cell phone's there so how do you find her? Where is she? The guy at the station manager has given me coffee he's looking at his watch because he knew that people brought him to the station and knew that I had other things to do. Out of the blue he says, You know the guy you oughta talk to is Jesse Marcel. That brilliant investigator who I am.

23:20 Oh, he handled wreckage from one of those saucers you're interested in when he was in the military. What? I dropped my teeth, you know Tell me more what do you know about him? He lives in Houma Louisiana. Well that didn't tell me anything because I didn't know where Homo Who does? I've been there since to talk to Jesse Anyway, he told me about Jesse and then the reporter showed up and had a great crowd that night The next day from the airport. I was there a bit early I called information. This is before the internet, you understand? Now it's easier. Called information got a number for Jesse Marcel talked to him

23:59 And he told me his story. Now, he couldn't deny it because as I found out later His picture was in newspapers all over the place The story was all over the place He could hardly say oh i didn't have anything to do with that well you know there wasn't a story So he told me he was the intelligence officer for the 509th now It's an important thing to recall that the 509th was the most elite military group in the world Why do I say that? Because they dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 1945. And they dropped two more in Operation Crossroads in 1946 that was out in the Pacific. So all of the officers were hand-picked officers with high level clearances etc.

24:42 So he's the intelligence officer. He's the duty officer for the day on Sunday, the 6th They get a call from the sheriff's office that a rancher had come in with some strange wreckage Now I should add that there were we now know they're roughly 1,000 sightings in the June July timeframe right here Kenneth Arnold's big sighting on June 24 started to ball rolling just two weeks earlier uh And so the sheriff naturally called the base as he was supposed to if there was anything that might involve the base. Nobody was talking about Martians or anything like that, but people were seeing awful strange stuff flying very fast all over the United States and some other countries. So the sheriff was supposed to call a base and talk to Jesse. Jesse went and looked at the records that the rancher had brought in a small amount of what was out on his ranch

25:39 He said there was nothing conventional there at all. He'd served in the Pacific, he's seen airplane crashes, he knew what to expect and he talks to the base commander Colonel Blanchard The boss man says take the counterintelligence corps guy that means he was concerned about who is spying on us You could hide an army in New Mexico very low population density And so they go out, they follow the rancher out. They find this debris field three quarters of a mile long and few hundred yards wide. Crazy stuff strewn out all over the place! Foil-like material mostly very lightweight very strong and what Jesse told me in our first conversation was there wasn't anything conventional out there

26:21 You expect vacuum tubes, you expect wires. You expect tags saying made in Oshkosh on equipment. Airplane crashes produce a lot of junk and it wasn't anything like that. And Jesse figured that it had to be a meteor explosion because it covered such a large area and there was no crater because when airplane goes in you make a big hole in the ground. So they go back, each take some of the wreckage still leaving most of it out there Go back to town late at night on the 7th On the 8th at the big meeting and morning meeting at base The base commander gives two orders One is to the press guy Walter Howlett put out a press release saying we picked up one of these saucers that people have been seeing

27:08 And the other was to Jesse Marcel, take some of this wreckage with you to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. That's where captured equipment is supposed to go and make a stop at our headquarters 8th Air Force in Fort Worth Texas So naturally everybody follows orders and press release goes out about noon New Mexico time which is too late for the East Coast entirely but not too late for evening papers from Chicago West And I found copies in the Chicago Daily News and the San Francisco paper, Salt Lake Tribune and Spokane Chronicle. Los Angeles Herald-Examiner had the original story because of time difference had to cover up General Roger Raimi head of the 8th Air Force at Fort Worth says just a radar reflector weather balloon combination

28:02 Which is an insult to the intelligence of all the guys in the 509, that they couldn't recognize. Now I should add some people said oh but they blanchered his head for putting out that crazy press release He got four more promotions after that and wound up as a four-star general and vice chief of staff for the United States Air Force when he died of a massive heart attack at the Pentagon in the mid-'60s. He was not punished. Early in July 1947, Bill went to the University of Minnesota library, periodicals department... there was a story!

28:38 confirming what Jesse had said, giving us more names and more information. They spelled Walter Howe's name four different ways when you looked at all the papers but in the next year and a half we found 62 people connected with the event Wow. And that was the old-fashioned way, you know? Telephone information and stuff as they're saying... no internet! I was lucky, yeah, I'll grant that. I called the Roswell paper once I found out they had one. Asked for the editor from 1947. Oh he's long gone what do you need? I said well I've got this article here that says The Base Public Information Officer, a guy named Walter before could finish his sentence oh his wife works here

29:19 What? How convenient. You don't expect a guy who was born in Chicago, as matter of fact, who was based in Roswell in 1947 to still be there in 1978 but he was. He had a base yearbook with the tower strength one of the founders of the International UFO Museum incidentally. A great guy and I talked to a lot of people about Walter. He was also a bombardier during the war more than 20 missions dropping bombs on Japan, drop the instrument package in one of those two nuclear weapons tests in 1946. You pick your best people to do that. So I want to stress these weren't a bunch of nuts they weren't a bunch of kooks they were people who had something on the ball no question right and the first book came out in 1980

30:06 I got a percentage of Bill Moore's royalties. He worked with Charles Berlitz, whose name was Magic with Publishers because of the Bermuda Triangle and we kept at it by 1985 We had found 92 people And the research is going on Of course most of the people are dead But if you go to my website www.stantonfriedman.com One of the DVD sets listed is Recollections of Roswell with first-hand witnesses only 27 of them and almost all of them are dead I mean it's getting to be that time you know the human life span only lasts so long but let me ask you where do the Alien bodies come in. You know, where did you start here those reports? Oh

30:55 We there wasn't any talk about bodies back then in 47, but as I started to do the research I was checking around who can we talk to in? Roswell who might know something and one of the people that was mentioned was Glenn Dennis The Undertaker He's the one who first came up with this body story, and then we had other people tell us the same thing. And he had a telephone call from the base guy who handled funerals and stuff like that asking about how they could get small caskets.

31:38 And he said, well we've got a couple here three footers four footers you know like for kids and we can get some more over in Amarillo take it there too. Was there an accident? Do you need my services? No I'm just wondering what would you do to preserve bodies that were found out in the desert gets awful hot down there Glenn talked about dry ice and told them where they could get it, stuff like that. And when I talked to Glenn at first he was reluctant to tell me much of anything and then I sent him a bunch of background material so we'd know I wasn't the National Enquirer or reporter. He said come on up, we'll talk about it. Well I was with another guy who knew Glenn drove me up there and Glenn tells me his story

32:25 about he dropped an airman off at the base hospital, escorted him in. This may surprise some people but the funeral service provided the ambulance service You know a hearse did an ambulance not much difference when? Right splitting hairs it and he walked in to see a nurse II had some interest in and She saw him, you know get out of here. They're gonna give me a hard time You can't stay here the guys there gave him a hard time Don't you ever say anything in town etc. They escorted him out The next day he met her for lunch at the officers club

33:07 She was a lieutenant and she was drafted into service by some doctors that were there who were, what's the word? I don't want to say they weren't autopsying but they were cutting up some bodies that were there that stank to high heaven. and really got her very upset. She drew a picture for him of what their hands looked like, and so forth... And she was pretty upset about the whole thing, and then when he tried to get back to talk to her in a couple days she was gone! She'd been shipped out. So since then we've heard many other stories about bodies but again always quietly in the background

33:52 Do you think Roswell is the closest we've ever come to a smoking gun? Well, the Aztec case was just as good. More bodies and more intact craft. Really? Yeah, oh yeah! And that's why I mentioned that book, Aztec Incident. It's listed on the website and also get the multiple witness radar visual cases Which are very exciting when a plane in the sky has a saucer fly around it, especially if it's a reconnaissance bomber. And they're monitoring with fancy equipment and they radio the ground and the ground radar military picks them up on this object and this sighting goes on for an hour

34:41 Multiple witness radar visual with highly trained people. That's pretty exciting and then there was a case up in the Yukon, 31 witnesses You see this monstrous craft and a civil engineer named Martin Jasek wrote a report on it. He was able to triangulate because there were so many witnesses spread out over quite an area on the ground, and this thing was between half a mile and a mile long. Jeez! Yeah. They pick it up on the plane radar, they radio the ground military radar there. They pick them up and the object...they get permission to fly in a circle and this thing station keeps with them all is being recorded by the guys on the ground

35:46 Now, what do you do with a case like that? Well, you cover it up. As a matter of fact the FAA guy Callahan has talked about he was told to grab all the paper and all radar screen information take it to meeting in Washington and I was all taken from her and that was the end of that but these are guys we're depending on to monitor our skies and so forth You can't ignore their testimony Right...you gotta think they're credible uh... yeah and vendors that ted phillips of missouri is collected uh... well last number heard about four thousand physical trace cases from eighty countries where people see a craft on the ground and effort leaves one finds physical changes in one six other guys what took the case ball reports of little being then of course you got your abduction cases like buddy barney hillcase

36:42 Incredible story, but the psychiatrist that was involved doing the hypnosis was a world-class expert Dr. Benjamin Simon on today we'd say PTSD post traumatic stress disorder you know Betty and Barney were each separately went under hypnosis because there was a period of missing time He, this is many sessions each separately and he has in writing said that the emotional intensity as they relived the experience was as great of any other war veterans that he had worked with. He ran a 3,000 bed hospital for Shotshock War Veterans. So this is guy who knows what he's talking about and he had to stop one session each

37:31 Because he wasn't sure they could handle it, you know blood pressure going up heart rate going up terror pure terror And they weren't copying anybody because nobody had reported such a case before. Can you give us the details of that account, of that case? What did they say that they experienced? Well, they were driving home from Canada toward Portsmouth New Hampshire late at night so he spotted this object in the sky kind of lonely country I've been up there as matter fact There'll be a whole anniversary celebration, September 14th 15th 16th in New Hampshire Lincoln New Hampshire. And they spot this thing flying in the sky and Betty watches it and describes it to Barney he's driving late at night and oh no Betty there aren't any flying saucers is probably a Piper Cub well it's moving strangely quite strangely if flew in front of the moon

38:30 between them and the moon, stuff like that. It flew near the Old Man of the Mountain which was a major monument up there since it's fallen into the lake. And it was one-and-a-half times the size of this sort of sculpture which is 48 feet so people are trying to identify this as Jupiter Jupiter doesn't fly in front of the moon, and it certainly isn't 70 feet high. Anyway they keep driving along going home and this thing comes up close to them less than 200 feet away. Marty gets out of the car with binoculars

39:16 He's looking at this thing through the binoculars, through the windows of this round craft up there. He sees about a ten-man crew of sort of strange characters and he suddenly gets very frightened dashes back to the car, tells Barney they're going to capture us. Drives off and does something very strange. He turned from a major highway Route 3 to a secondary road to a tertiary road, out in the middle of nowhere! Barney would never have done that! And then he sees beings in front of him on the roads... it's dark, really gets dark

39:55 and they stopped the car, to make a long story short. They get taken on board the craft examined in separate rooms stick a needle here scrape a little skin there that sort of thing Betty had grabbed what she called the book because she didn't know what else to call it they wouldn't let her take that with them and one of the interesting parts of this story is Betty would ask anybody anything She knew who...she was a social worker with the state of New Hampshire Her family came over in the 1600s. Barney was black, Betty was white and Barney's grandfather was a slave. A mixed couple! They had nothing to gain by going public and didn't intend to but somebody betrayed his secret and so forth anyway. Betty asked them... typical Betty... where are you from? I know you're not from around here!" The understatement of the month.

40:48 It shows you what I can call a three-dimensional star map or model probably a hologram points of light which are stars different kinds of lines between them, which are trade routes or occasional expeditions and She's looking at this thing about 3 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet And she said where are you on the map? White Sky alien says do you know where you are in a man? No, how can I tell you where? I don't know anything about astronomy she said. Well how can I tell you where I'm from if we do not know where your at?" End of discussion Now Dr Simon who was mystified by all this stuff and didn't know much about flying saucers he asked her if she could remember what the map looked like and she says yes And she drew it only if it was to be drawn accurately It's in the book The First Book of Interrupted Journey back in the mid 60's by John G Fuller

41:39 Anyway, they get dropped off. There were some strange sounds on the trunk of the car and they suddenly sort of wake up. They hadn't said anything for 30 miles. Trouble is they got home two hours later than they should have gotten home! And their watches didn't work and there are a whole bunch of other stuff which is in the book captured which incidentally will be made into a movie if we're lucky it's been optioned. Oh nice And my book Top Secret Magic has been optioned. That's about the Magister 12. The two titles are Magic Men, M-A-J-I-C and Betty & Barney I may be lucky enough while i'm still alive to have movies made in two of my books

42:30 I want Richard Dreyfuss to play me now. But anyway, the story... They were missing this two-hour period and it was a couple years later before Barney was developing ulcers or other problems finally his doctor says, I can't do anything more for you Barney. I think you oughta see Dr. Simon, psychiatrist. And Betty went too separately in separate sessions And it was only under his very special brand of hypnosis. Like I say, he treated thousands of war veterans. You know your buddy's head gets blown off next to you it's a little hard to integrate that back into life so it was out of the hypnosis sessions and the fact that a reporter got hold of the story and without their permission or approval carried it they thought they were going to lose their jobs Betty worked for the state of New Hampshire Barney worked for the post office very active in civil rights but the last thing he needed was a story like this coming around

43:33 And surprisingly, the story was very well received. And then a book got made. John Fuller, outstanding reporter wrote a book. He also wrote a book Incident at Exeter about some events over there and the story got it was a bestseller in many countries And it set the pace for abduction research and the thing is I met Betty and Barney, Betty many times. Barney died four months after I met them and she only died five years ago I guess. And fortunately Kathy Martin, Betty's niece,

44:17 did most of the work in the book, has all the audio tapes and hypnosis sessions. They're scary! There's powerful emotion involved in this case. The thing is that there was physical evidence as well described in the book. Barney's shoes were all scuffed. He was an immaculate dresser who could never wear his shoes except for gardening after that. Was torn in a couple places of new dress and there was some crazy pink stuff on the address It's been analyzed and very strange says the chemist really But yeah, that's evidence. That's crazy Yeah it is evidence Of course it was not the next day kind of thing because I didn't know what had happened but So that story is a good solid story And you know The Aliens were humanoid

45:12 You'd have recognized they weren't from around here unless you were walking down the street in New York, which I Assume the communication was telepathic Well, yes. They made strange noises amongst themselves but by and large telepathic. Some people don't want to accept that and some people don't want to accept all kinds of stuff. That's true but I know how to do that so it can't be real is kind of the edit. But that led to the book Science Was Wrong incidentally by Kathleen Marden and myself because in so many areas of science there are 14 chapters

45:51 each one dealing with an example of important scientists saying stupid things which delayed progress for a long time. You know, a great astronomer in 1903 October is saying it's eminently clear that man will never fly any distance in any kind of vehicle two months before the Wright brothers first flight. The astronomer Royle was saying year before Sputnik that space travel was utter nonsense What would be the use of it? Nobody would spend the money. Oh well, and medical stuff where people said impossible... I like Billy Mitchell who was an American pilot during the First World War And after the war was saying that the airplane is going to revolutionize warfare We'll be sinking ships from the air

46:41 And boy, the Secretary of the Navy got very upset when I said that. And Billy got court-martialed in subordination for saying... and the epitome of why this is a problem is his attitude on November 29th 1941 the Army-Navy game was played, and in the program was a picture of the USS Arizona this huge battleship. And it's statement that nobody had ever sunk a battleship from the air. Eight days later was Pearl Harbor and the USS Arizona sunk 1100 guys on board died." Yeah people love to say things are impossible right up until the moment they happen I don't know what what that tendency is

47:27 I don't know why, but it's certainly true and you've got to be very careful. If this were true, I would know about it and if not so it must not be. You run across it. How far do you think the government's knowledge of extraterrestrials goes now? Do you buy into any of the theories that there has been official contact or do you think it is just recovered craft and we're still trying to study it and really don't know what it is. Well, I think probably there has been contact There are two stories about General Eisenhower

48:09 Yes, there are. I've heard those. There's a guy reporting now... Art Campbell He talked to crew members of the President's airplane when Ike was supposedly in Georgia Atlanta playing golf you know like Ike liked to play golf and it's great cover You'll understand And the plane went in secret to Alamogordo New Mexico Holloman Air Force Base Down the other end of the field was a saucer on the ground and supposedly Ike met with the guys. Now, Art's done an awful lot of work. He was a school teacher and he found other witnesses, found other statements but I think he was on the right track. There is another story about Edwards Air Force Base where

48:58 The newsman, again Ike was playing golf on Palm Springs and suddenly the newsmen realized they hadn't seen him for a while. And they asked the press secretary oh i'll check for you no problem he gets back to them well he was embarrassed Ike had been at the dentist It's under anesthetic and they didn't want to say anything about that. Somebody might choose to attack at that time, but everything is okay. Well Bill Moore my colleague with whom I worked on the Roswell case did some checking many years later he found the wife of a dentist, the dentist was dead she had no recollection of her husband treating the president That would seem a little strange

49:38 That's crazy. What do you think, I mean if those interactions really did happen what do you think they were talking about? What do you think they looked like because i've heard that they were making a deal for technology to and then also the government was allowing the extraterrestrials to abduct a certain amount of people Of course this is wild speculation but I mean I'm sure you've heard some of these stories Well sure I have And the thing that gets to me is the fact that I mentioned early on, that we haven't exploded any nuclear weapons in warfare even though there's been a bunch of wars. There was this guy named Robert Hastings and another one named Robert Salas who have talked about nukes and UFOs. It appears that the aliens have a strong interest in nuclear-tipped missiles and things like that

50:30 And it may be they don't want to see the place destroyed. You know, maybe they've been stealing goodies here for a long time. Yeah, mining stuff? It could be that this is a penal colony. They dumped all of bad boys and girls here and that's why we're so nasty to each other. Australians are very proud of their convictory. I was going to say yeah! We're just a cosmic Australia Well, it could be. So there may have been communication about what the rules of the neighborhood are I don't know obviously i'm not privy to any of that people ask me what are the saucers made out of? Nobody sends me classified reports! I don't have a clearance or anything to know you know...I'm sorry but as some people think, the city people think governments can't keep secrets

51:22 One of the silliest lines I've ever heard, Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson who's head of the Hayden Planetarium in New York said at a talk at Penn State University that the proof that governments can't keep secrets is look how much we know about President Clinton's genitalia. Think about it. That was a media sideshow to distract from real issues! That's why they focus on that. Seth Shostak of the SETI Institute has also said, well look how bad a job FEMA did with Katrina. What's that got to do with the NRO? The CIA? The DIA? The NSA? All those alphabet soup agencies? They're the ones who keep secrets not FEMA and he said oh look how badly bad a job they did with the post office what's that got to do with national security? Stan, Do you think we're ever gonna see public disclosure

52:18 I don't know. Frankly, I believe that if any media group had a Woodward and Bernstein to put their noses to find out what went on with this cosmic watergate, I think they could do it in a very short time—six months. The documents are there that NSA has released 156 formerly top secret umbra UFO documents on which you can read one sentence per page the rest is whited out. That's just silly! These are old documents and the CIA has withheld 50 some, top-secret umbra blacked out documents You can read five or six words per page And we also have a statement from a general Air Force General Carol Bolander

53:07 He was tasked with the job of figuring out what we should do with Project Blue Book in 1969 after the Condon Report came out. He had no previous connection with it, he worked on a lunar excursion module – good sharp engineer incidentally – and he came at it open and clear and recommended that Blue Book be closed But he noted reports of UFOs which could affect national security are made in accordance with JNAP, Joint Army Navy Air Force Publication 146 or Air Force Manual 55-11 and are not part of the Blue Book system. Those are probably the most interesting cases

53:52 well yeah andy to paris later he says if we close project blue book the public won't have a place to report ufo sightings however is previously noted reports which could affect national security will continue to be investigated using the procedures established for that purpose not nobody ever been told black because we've always been told bluebook was that folks when we come through what we weren't doing anything like found general bull under not alive now but Had a conversation with him and indicated, gee it sounds like you're saying there were two separate reporting systems. He said there were! You know if a saucer goes down the runway at a strategic air command base where nuclear weapons are stored that's a national security problem. If my wife and I go out at the driveway and look up and see a saucer flying by what's the big deal? Happens all the time ya know so no major group has ever pointed out

54:49 that this was what was said by a general who was charged with, you know, finding out what's going on. We've been being lied to persistently. Two Roswell reports — one is about 1,000 pages and the other one is a little under 300 — are full of baloney! I mean, you could start a delicatessen with them! You know, the notion... My favorite explanation is really the crash test dummies for Roswell. I found the guy whose picture is in the Air Force report, the Roswell report case closed as to what about the dummies they think we're dummies The man who was in charge of the crash test dummy program

55:37 airplanes are flying higher and farther, and getting a pilot out of there if something goes wrong with the plane is a problem. And so ejection seats and all that stuff... You don't want to put pilots in there until you make sure things work." He pointed out two things I met with him in person in Albuquerque he's deceased now too. He pointed out look the dummies were six feet tall 175 pounds and they were in uniform. The uniform was because a pilot would be in uniform, and that would affect the drag and how quickly the parachute would open and the temperature cause it's pretty cold up there at 40 thousand feet etcetera And uh... How do you convert six-feet tall 175 pound dummy into a little four and half foot tall guy with a big head? Fair point I can't believe any rancher out in the desert there spotting one of the dummies

56:35 would have said, oh my god an alien invasion! It makes no sense at all. Incidentally there was another little problem none were dropped until six years after round 12. Yeah that'll be a problem with that explanation. Time travel for crash test dummies Let me ask you another question. You know, lately the UFO community... I see a lot more people like my last guest Nick Redfern suggesting that these things may be more paranormal or multi-dimensional or even spiritual rather than physical metal crafts from outer space Do you entertain any similar ideas? Or do you think they're all physical craft

57:16 Well, I would draw a compromise there. It would amaze me if an advanced technological civilization wasn't able to use telepathy and know about reincarnation and be able to do crazy things like go through walls without breaking the walls. You know by advance technology my definition is Arthur Clarke once said it's magic! Not M-H-A-I-C So, I would expect that they are going to know things we don't know. My mantra is that technological progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way so i would be astonished if a truly advanced civilization able to get here wasn't capable of doing magical things

58:11 I can't say there won't be time travel, I don't know how to do it. Right. Fourth dimensional space-time warping but i think the problem is that our contemporary people are unwilling to open up their minds to the fact that, my goodness there could be beings out there that are a billion years ahead of us. And boy do we feel stupid! You know? Which is a natural feeling I guess... Remember, we're right at the center of a change in our attitude about where we fit in the scheme of things. First there was Ptolemy who said the Earth was the center of the universe All you gotta do is look and you'll see the moon and the sun go around the Earth, so will the stars. Go outside some night! And you'll see them go around us." Then Copernicus came along in 1543, same year he died, he had a book published in which he said that sorry, but the Earth and other planets go around the Sun

59:04 And the church banned that book for 300 years because it took man out of the center of the universe. But we still consoled ourselves with, well there aren't any other planets out there so we're probably it folks! Ha ha! We're the kings of the universe Well now we've got Kepler up there and oh my goodness... We now think that a reasonable number for the number of planets in our galaxy just the Milky Way is maybe 10 billion The SETI guys think that a few years ago, Frank Drake was saying there might be as many as 10,000 places in the galaxy that could send signals. Well, ten billion is a little bit more than ten thousand! And so suddenly we recognize that the Earth was not created in 4004 BC, as some people would have us believe it's more like four billion and four. Our status, in other words

1:00:03 We're not at the top of the heap. We haven't qualified for kindergarten and That that makes some people very upset but look Pat Robertson Has loudly and clearly said we are the only intelligent life in the universe All right, all this you have had Robbins the work of a devil he's done it. He's the authority he's done his research and Oh yes, yes. Research by proclamation! So we're dealing with some troubling questions and also if there's somebody coming here from someplace else they have maybe figured out how to get along with their neighbors We don't seem to be very good at that do we? Right...clearly a problem for us

1:00:49 And people say, why don't they talk to us? And my offhand silly comment is I don't talk to the squirrels in my backyard. Yeah exactly you don't stop on the highway to check out what Nant Hill's doing that makes sense to me Stan, let me ask you another question. I mean this is completely unrelated but i just don't know the next time that I'm going to speak to a nuclear physicist You know there's a lot of conspiracy talk about a cover-up in regards to how much damage the Fukushima disaster really caused? From your knowledge do you think there are any real concerns of radiation reaching the west coast of North America or is it just a bunch of fear mongering because It seems like they're hiding data in some sense

1:01:32 There's no question that the Japanese authorities had been somewhat negligent in how they handled things, let me put it that way. There's also no question that there will be some radiation, some particles with radiation on them reach the West Coast. Just as we had plenty of stuff from nuclear fallout when we tested nuclear weapons. You could buy milk in Rochester New York that had measurable radiations. Now the kicker here is that man developed a species and planet that was even more radioactive than it is now

1:02:09 Most of us forget that we're if you sleep in the same bed with somebody for a year. You get a measurable dose of radiation Our measuring techniques are very sensitive and so there's even a lot of work that shows that A small amount of radiation is beneficial. This is called hormesis, you know two aspirin will cure your headache 30 would probably kill you someplace in between an appropriate and optimum level so I've worked around radiation and develop a healthy respect for it but you also recognize

1:02:47 Well, there's a classic case in Taiwan. Two buildings built at about the same time big apartment buildings one unfortunately the steel Somehow have been contaminated by some cobalt radioactive cobalt-60 was mixed in the mess and it was years before they found this out and so then they did some checking as to the medical status of the people who've been in these two buildings very close to each other but separate Turns out the people who were in the building that had radioactive steel or healthier In the other building and there've been experiments done with multiplication of bacteria and stuff where you put in shieldings so you cut back to radiation levels And the growth rate is less when there was no radiation Seems to maybe affect the immune system. Who knows? So I don't doubt but some of the material coming to the coasts of North America

1:03:42 It's got a measurable, because we've got good instruments level of radioactivity. In terms of it being a major threat to the well-being of the people on the West Coast I don't think so. I'm not running around up and down the beach measuring. Right, yeah...I mean I did want to ask you that because it's so hard to get a straight answer be it on this or UFOs or anything cause the government lies to us so much but ya know fellas its getting to be that time Kyle was there anything you wanted to ask we didn't tackle? I just wanted to say about the cosmic water gate that there's seemingly harmless information that is out there and it is known such as nuclear fusion as a reality, and there are devices. I just don't understand why we're still using coal? And I feel like there must be some

1:04:38 correlation, there's some connection here between people withholding this information on a need-to-know basis and the rest of humanity who doesn't need to know. They still have to burn coal they still have to pay for their energy and aren't we isn't it factual that were past this point technologically? And we just aren't being honest with the public Well, it's true that they're not being honest with the public. There is no question about that This is not the only thing like that In Flying Saucers in Science I have a whole chapter on examples of big programs that were covered up well then NRO National Reconnaissance Office which is one of the biggest black budget agencies

1:05:19 They admitted very quietly, it was a little blurred in the paper. They'd cancelled the program with Boeing to improve the architecture of the big satellites that the NRO uses Some of them cost half a billion dollars. I mean, these are not little toys and They had already spent 13 billion dollars at Boeing To try to improve the architecture and hadn't been successful 13 billion is a lot of money You know And they're not the only agency well our first successful spy satellite that Corona spy satellite

1:05:55 Back in the early 60s, got more data on Soviet military establishments than all the U-2 flights that preceded it. There wasn't one word in public for more than 20 years about the corona. I mean Russians certainly knew we were applying them over but American people weren't told then So there are a lot of examples of that and that's why I say, I want to Woodward Bernstein. I don't want all technical data out on the table. I think there was legitimate national security concern unless the Russians and the Chinese and everybody else puts their technical data out on the table On the other hand, I think we should be told the planets being visited and maybe refresh our memory about how we must look to the advanced beings coming here

1:06:41 And it's time, if you make such an announcement maybe the Queen and the Pope together. How is that for a non-couple? At least you could say there are going to be international conferences about the economic psychological religious impact of the fact that we're not alone It's a ballgame changer! I would like to see that happen while i'm still alive Would you? Yes I would. Stan, you know I stand in awe of your accomplishments and your dedicated research. I'm honored just to share a bit of your time You know, I know all your books and DVDs are available on your website stantonfriedman.com Tell the people little bit about what's available there. We talked about the books in terms of DVDs

1:07:29 What do you got? Yeah, the books are Captured The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience Science Was Wrong both of those are by Kathleen Marden and myself. My book Flying Saucers in Science which lists the important sources of information answers the question can you get here from there yes And why the cover-up and all those other things There's my book Top Secret Magic about the Majestic 12 documents of which more than 100, I think three are genuine and the most important classified documents leaked to the public. As my book Crash at Corona, there we go again with corona, The Inside Story of the Roswell Incident that goes way back to the 90s

1:08:15 uh... and there's a book uh... aliens in u f o s which i have two chapters and kathleen has won the dvds include recollections of rosswell first-hand testimony from twenty seven first witnesses The my book my DVD UFOs are real and there's flying saucers are real and There's do you believe in magic? Major, I see him as case. And there's a debate Our flying sauce is real between me and James McGaughan Air Force former Air Force pilot who says ain't nothing applying saucers and

1:08:55 And we had a formal debate in Tennessee, middle Tennessee state. You can decide for yourself who won There's also copies of some hard to get documents like Project Blue Book Special Report 14 biggest study ever done for the Air Force never mentioned by the noisy negativists of course. And you know, and there's this book Aztec yes for which I wrote the forward so on song copies One thing you buy buying your books from me you get signatures to get autographs Yeah Amazon's a fine place to do business but they don't have my autograph sitting around

1:09:37 So, you know it'll keep you busy for a while if your interested. Sure yeah I mean i encourage everyone to check out those books. I know me and Kyle we just read Flying Saucers in Science really good book really breaks down the data that's there It's overwhelming that there is clearly a lie being told. It sucks that the problem is to what degree because you let crazies run wild and you got people on the Disclosure Project saying they found 57 different races and they call them The Heinz 57, and your like why are you the only guy who knows about that? But it just sucks!

1:10:14 But I mean, I guess it's time we put old yellow down gentlemen Stan and sir. It's been an absolute pleasure keep doing what you do I'm gonna cry and thanks for having me. Alright, thank you! Thank you have a good day sir Wow what the fuck Kyle? I can't believe we just did that Yeah for those of you who don't know man Kyle here he runs the Facebook page For conspiracies please if you want to see harsh truths and interesting speculation in your news feed give it a like He does an excellent job seriously so that's The coolest shit I see all day is that page. So thank you for doing that! Yes, I steal every image from everyone else on the internet so thank them as well. That's an American way What'd you think of that? Do you think that went pretty well

1:11:01 The guy's an expert, he definitely talked with a lot of dead people and he's been doing it for a long time so I guess when you're 78 years old that goes with the territory. Yeah God... It's sad because Nick Redfern pointed out in the last episode I just think people are gonna die out and there is not going to be anyone who knows all the documents are redacted and uh... You know? The secrets are gonna die! And it sucks as further we get away from it you know..it gets away from us Yeah, but it's not just the UFO thing that there is a cosmic water gate. It's just a huge wealth of information that is withheld from the public on every single level and The people are starting to realize that I hope yeah, I mean the question you asked Stan actually does say in the book a little bit that

1:11:49 the implications of the technologies you're talking about would be cataclysmic to the economy and so it's- they're just not instituted. And I agree with you, I mean I know you were kind of going at that angle that it's for the greed of elitists that they are just going to take advantage of us on primitive systems while they may and I'm not convinced that they've instituted these systems for their own use like i'm not sure Henry Kissinger's house runs on free energy but you know in his day they were working on nuclear weapons and I think today they're working on energy. And, I think that there has probably been advances then we can't even fathom it when you look at what we publicly have seen just with phones and the internet in our lifetime think about what we don't know they're probably two generations ahead

1:12:36 And that's insane. It is impossible to know what they actually have I mean Dan is talking about nuclear submarines when people think of nuclear power the thing a giant Fukushima like reactors these huge installations and what Stan is talking about is in the 50s having naval submersibles that are running off of nuclear fission or fusion essentially and The implications of that is that a very small device could be used to run things on seemingly endless energy and instead what we're doing is burning coal and paying bills. Fair, but the question though is it safe? Because you know we've only had a few disasters and they really are cataclysmic so is it a safe technology I mean I don't know enough about it. Stan clearly thinks it is. It's interesting he has worked so closely with it and doesn't have cancer

1:13:35 I mean, it's just an interesting thing to me because it seems like the ideas behind that are so dangerous you can't even get fucking close to him. But...I'm sure he has taken his precautions but its been a big part of his life. I thought it was very strange answer when you asked about Fukushima that had certain amount radiation beneficial for mankind. I highly doubt nuclear disaster is going to have net benefit in humanity but well I guess Fair. Thanks again for coming on the show, that was a great opportunity we talked to a guy who's just done so much in his lifetime you know you're welcome folks I gotta say here's track it's a favorite of mine Watchtower by Heist Click to play us out into the infinite abyss Kyle thanks again. Thank You. Higher Side Chatters you are fucking welcome. The renegades cast away these outlaws pain once they masquerade us Who's to blame? It sounds set to explode like a hand grenade

1:14:40 No peace, it seems that they show peace A leash beef no relief Peace underneath the beast It like force to use force taught to use caution Tossed to the ground with a subliminal bondage Like KRS-One cause I'm criminal minded I run with soldiers amongst the vultures Now you're under control Cause you do what they told ya! There's a front lines now We're living in Tholi I walk through the valley of shadow And this nomad is gonna keep me down To the thief to the king when he snaps your crown Oh man, oh how many stars did you fall before

1:15:28 And put your lights out, from sitting here thinking like who's the wiser? Then I act like Chuck D and fight the power. Who would have thought we'd rush the watchtower and shower that game with acid late in the hour? Devour these corporate politicians in office that keep watching you from satellites and orbits So hold to the front line The streets are our battlefield this war is a gold mine Sent to confuse you Here to abuse you Joker strategically placed To amuse you so tell me Who knew These thieves would fool you None of us act like We were crazy now I'm the bad guy on top of the spies cause they're in bed Uncle Sam's niggas shaking like no you don't

1:16:51 Freedom of speech, so I'm using it well. There's no harm in dig my urn!