Gordon White | Understanding Non-Human Logic and Entity Influence Throughout History

00:05 Puppet masters almost surely have a clearly maybe something heavy And until you've thoroughly tested every last horse just to think, you know the less you really do That's true Dr. Seuss Where would we beat our THC? Cause we know they're lying to us Just don't know them without THC The higher side Jack Shaw award company

00:43 How's it going Hireside Chatters? Drinking a little drink, smoking a little smoke and trying to chemically break consensus reality from my fragile mind. From sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood And as you know there are many aspects of history we don't understand and end up misinterpreting in the mainstream but alternative and conspiratorial circles are just as guilty of mischaracterization. The fact that we've been shoehorned into the monotheism and materialism paradigms might have a bigger effect on our reasoning than we even realize While we might scoff at the cult of sciencism, on another level that box affects how we interpret odd data points in the past and oftentimes our highly regarded fringe researchers end up putting it all in a physical material context too because that's all we really know. Even though in many cases we can still see that pieces seem quite forced

01:30 Well once again the Dark Prince of modern Chaos Magic, Gordon White has flown in on his proverbial broomstick to restore the magical and esoteric context necessary for reorganizing these very puzzle pieces into an arrangement that gets us a little bit closer to viewing the big picture. We talked about much of this in our last conversation about Gordon's new book, Starships A Prehistory of the Spirits. But unlike the vultures that circled around Gobekli Tepe thousands of years ago we left a little too much meat on those bones so diving right back into the deep end of the pool Gordon my man welcome back to The Higher Side Gregory Colwood, always a pleasure. Agreed! And I've been talking to you about how in a lot of these interviews you often don't get to that last section of the book and that could be because hosts have a tendency to skim at an ever-increasing rate as they progress through a book or maybe because some of the later revelations are even harder to really wrap your head around because they're so foreign to us

02:24 Things like understanding non-human logic and how these spirits tend to communicate with us. I mean, I still find it a bit slippery because our brains have been so well trained to not understand magic and nonphysical things So the first time we talked about this complex book of yours, I still found myself latching on to questions about the physical parts of it Tell us about Gobekli Tepe tell us about Egypt tell us about The Flood the tangible things, but that's kind of what we're gonna try to get away from as we get into the deeper stuff right? Yeah for sure I mean you know in your defense it's a fairly dense book. I think it's a breezy read obviously please buy it but it's also quite dense so to kind of reposition how we have discussions about

03:10 The extra dimensional interaction with the human journey you kind of have to tell and it's a bit of an ambitious thing to do but you can't have to tell. The whole story of mankind, so there's a great chunk of actual history that I think is fascinating that sort of front loads the book and usually the interviews go through that because it's quite good. But in the last few chapters is really off to the races when it comes to attempting to model how these impacts may have shaped human history Yeah, well said. That is a great summary and to grease these wheels up a bit you talk about how the monotheistic and materialist viewpoints leave very little wiggle room when faced with things we consider esoteric or paranormal or things like psychic effects all were left with is flat-out denial

04:00 as you say in the book, the impact of consciousness and psi effects have been scientifically observed for over a century. And maybe there's a disconnect there? Maybe we should elaborate on some of those studies that you find most valuable for people who still don't really accept or understand that there is something to it." Well sure! So at a macro level, there are sort-of opening words... Or to paraphrase the opening words of Lovecraft's Call of Cthulhu The human mind, I mean he was saying that the most terrifying thing in the world is for the human mind to correlate all its contents because it kind of

04:37 allows you that intertextual perspective of mankind's sort of role in the cosmic food chain. Now, that's written for a horror short story so it's potentially overly dramatic but that inability to correlate contents or to consider things intertextually is a persistent challenge across all academic or intellectual fields So it's no surprise that an archaeologist or a neuroscientist or whoever is unfamiliar with radical art history, or consciousness and side effects. And it's disappointing because

05:20 If you can kind of look across different fields, you start to get a more holistic perspective. And in particular when it comes to consciousness and side effects over say the last 120 years beginning with probably the research of The Society for Psychical Research in London and in the Victorian era and then moving through the sort of rise of parapsychology, and the shadow state involvement with these kinds of phenomena and effects with The Stargate Programme. You actually have genuinely a mountain of in many cases unfalsifiable or verified evidence rather in laboratory settings that demonstrate the peculiar effects of consciousness human consciousness

06:10 Also what can actually engage with or influence it that's presumably outside the human remit and when you consider that information in the light of. I guess interpretation history in particular ancient history when you have stories of cultures and society saying flat out that this spirits to miss or the gods told them yes we have because of a failure to intertextually understand that information, we've kind of chalked that up to metaphor or we've looked for physical description of it. And that really surprises me because in a very methodical and parsimonious way, we do have actual scientific data that suggests

06:55 These kind of encounters are real in some sense in some category if the word real yeah man and a modern example of kind of one of these scientifically observed phenomenon I think you've mentioned other interviews but not the last one we did but it would be Sony's inadvertent discoveries about apparently psychic effects that might be a good example right. Yes sure so sony basically published a report that said by the way to let me exist and just simple is that which by to be fair they want us to do it. It was probably good PR in a sense but when you consider what,

07:34 The sort of high volume of game testing, particularly for multiplayer games involves you actually are set up accidentally with a reasonably good. Sort of set of experimental parameters for discovering something like telepathy if you consider how games testing actually progresses you have people who were testing who is separated in time and space or at least space, so they don't get to do the verbal cues or even the physical cues to demonstrate what their character is about to do in a game. And so you run this thousands and thousands of times. And you're monitoring it because that's the nature of games testing, in particular in those sort of multiplayer components where things may go wrong. In a game that's where you get the most bugs! So after 18 months of games testing Sony manages to release just as an offhand presumably PR related document by the way telepathy exists and here are all the statistical data

08:32 For that as an experiment and it is literally an experiment i mean they have their statisticians and everything behind it. Because that's what happens when you're a very large games company in your your testing the product before you roll out to make hundreds of millions from it so, that kind of thing tends to happen in a weird way in the private sector and its now at the point i mean that sony's kinda be the cherry on the top of the side cake, because now there's literally a mountain of data that supports some sort of consciousness field effects or side effects information to the point where I'm kind of past arguing it. Or trying to demonstrate by

09:21 pointing to the research of Darrell Bim or Dean Radin, or any these people who've been doing this for decades within a lab setting with provable results. It's kind of up to you to get your head around it and literally no one that I can see with the possible exception of a researcher called Gregory Shushan is doing that in the historical field. And that's genuinely a failing of science and inquiry because we're not saying anything swivel idea, this is information that has been available in scientific public record for a century Right, well said. And I guess as we try to repair this context that there is something to spiritual communication or information that might come out of the ether that's probably been glossed over or dismissed because we don't have a context for it…

10:12 We should probably talk a little bit more about Egypt than we did last time because to quote the book, And that's a great quote and I think people get that kind of but definitely not the way a practicing magician probably gets it. Help us get a little closer to your understanding Well, sure. So the foundations of Western philosophy if you take someone like Plato would freely admit that Egypt was the home of mystics and magicians and wise men and wise women for the world. And it's basically been the last couple of centuries of Egyptology that have come up with the most moronic

11:05 interpretations of Egyptian culture to suggest otherwise, but they've single-handedly failed to understand the symbolic nature of the different gods with the funny shaped heads. They looked at it from this kind of antiquarian Anglican view of these sort of odd people with their bird headed gods as somehow declined or not interested in philosophy which is hilarious interpretation, particularly of the old kingdom possible. I mean John Anthony West and I think he's right in saying this says that Egypt is a one issue civilization and that issue is the survival of consciousness after death it they made games about how to do this in the new kingdom This is entirely how this sort of thing was built so that the reputation was there and funnily enough in Plato's case

12:00 You can in fact, and one of the researchers I rely on Dr. Jeremy Nadler does sort of say this that a lot of these ancient Greek philosopher types said that they spent time in Egypt or they spent time in mystery schools in Egypt and we've just ignored them going well no that didn't happen they made that up because you know Egypt didn't have anything like that nevertheless we take them seriously about everything else they say so Egypt is and was considered, and we need to then take that seriously the home of some or the inheritor is a very profound wisdom or information to do with the survival of the human after death. Even just the architecture of Egypt particularly in the old kingdom but actually this survives into the sort of promenades of the new kingdom and even into the late period when they started building temples to their hybrid gods

12:59 Without a sort of thorough understanding of, dare I say quote unquote how magic works. We kind of miss things and the most stonking one which you sort of briefly touched upon in the previous episode that we missed is the guess, the flat out guess that the pyramids are some kind of pointy tombs which doesn't actually fit in the rest of the history of old kingdom Egyptian burial practices but not only that, in particular when you talk about Giza you realize that this is an interrelated complex that has been in use for thousands of years and it's been built up, and is sort of had moderate or slightly changed use over the thousands of years. And also the folklore of this being a sacred place to do with the immortality or securing the mortality of a human survived right up into the period of Roman occupation of Egypt where people – I mean 100 years ago they were finding

13:55 sort of hasty burials from the Roman period, so 3200 years later. Of people essentially throwing dear old grandma down a shaft like an open shaft in the long abandoned Giza complex now that's an indication to us that this place retained its magic and its legend to do with securing this stellar immortality because say, oh what do we do? We're poor. Grandma's dead Hopefully this will help and you kind of throw it into the sort of sand covered ruins of a Of what Robert Bavale calls a Cape Canaveral in stone

14:38 And you know one thing we didn't talk about last time, which is also a fascinating part of the book is the rises and falls of Alexandria. Of course a sacred body of esoteric knowledge is always intriguing to a conspiracy guy anyway slice it but walk us through what you know of Alexandria Well, obviously the city itself was named after Alexander the Great. So when and he's Greek and he invades Egypt and secures Egypt and he puts one of his sort of chief lieutenants on the throne Ptolemy. And so for 14 generations of Ptolemy ending with Cleopatra herself, the Ptolemies ruled Egypt now this is a very interesting time

15:24 because they were aware, because of the reputation of Egypt that they kind of landed on something pretty good here. And as to and I think there's something behind this, the speculation of where say the Hermetic texts came from... There is no evidence physical evidence for this but it's quite a good case to make that it was the Ptolemies themselves who sort of decreed that all the wisdom of Egypt needs to be translated into Greek And so, I mean Alexandria was the city where the Old Testament was translated into Greek for the first time. You had mystics and wizards and sort of out-of-work Egyptian priests and all these people wandering around bouncing ideas together. And Alexandria was kind of New York at that time – at its peak

16:16 because it was getting every map of the world, it was translating every single text. If your boat showed up in Alexandria you might be from somewhere in Spain or you might be from wherever Lebanon they will look at your books and they will look at your maps and they will make copies of them and if you're lucky you'll get the originals back Otherwise, you'll get the copies and the originals go to the Great Library of Alexandria. So you have this space of cultural exploration and what we would consider scientific exploration and this kind of bouncing around in interaction of ideas like onto nothing the world had seen before. Like Alexandria is the birth city of the Western world in its good days

17:06 And we honestly because of the terrible things that happened to it over its history, it fell a couple of times. It fell to the Romans in 30 BC. They kind of kept its Greek thing going on. The Christian Greeks took it back a bit before 400 AD and then they killed Hypatia which there's a movie about it. It's quite good that worth watching she was sort of a prominent pagan philosopher and then it eventually fell to the arabs in 636 ad so it's this amazing place that everyone wanted by the time. The arabs invaded a couple of things happen you have this wisdom traditional these memories of

17:45 say the magic of Egypt and where Egypt's magic came from, bouncing around the Mediterranean like billiard balls. So a lot of them ended up in Byzantium because Emperor Heraclius kind of fancied himself like a smart or cultured man and he wanted to recreate the classical – well, the high points of the classical age so he sort of said everyone come to Byzantium and you can all be philosophers and we can talk about this crap The other thing that happened was at the time, there was a sort of Islamic influence and these words are actually there in the Quran but there is an Islamic law around

18:21 texts and sort of science information where these things are valued. It doesn't matter where they're from, so there's an emphasis on education and the retaining of information. And we see as this sort of Arab or Moorish empire spread along the coast of North Africa and up into Spain and then back into Arabia that these ideas from Alexandria were spread and translated into other languages, and duplicate texts were showing up in Spain and in Iran. not a happy invasion, but the invasion with the benefit of hindsight had some unintended positive consequences. By the same token we have no idea what Alexandria would have become if it hadn't been invaded and collapsed in 636 AD but that knocked the billiard balls of magic around the Mediterranean and they kept bouncing for about another five six hundred years before we kind of get a bead on them again as they show up in

19:24 in Venice, in the form of the Grimoires when Byzantium collapses. And another quote I really like from your book that relates to what you just said is, combing through the Bible for muddled Kabbalistic insights will only yield so much magical utility... To yield maximum insight and utility, the mythology of the Near East must be viewed as a holistic spectrum." I like that a lot! Help us get there man? What light does that perspective shed on things Okay, so there aren't that many incidents of monotheism around the world. But where we do find it – it's sort of like a 2016 American election. There are several contenders for the title of one true God.

20:14 And you have a bunch of different people and politics and myths sort of spewing up. And eventually some of the detractors fade away, and some of the wives fade away, and you kind of end up with one who becomes the one true God. That's definitely the case – I mean it's well and truly observed where Yahweh came from. Yahweh was essentially with different names part of an earlier Babylonian pantheon of other gods and because of the various politics, at the time. The other contenders to be president of the gods kind of faded away now from a magical perspective understanding that is quite good because it puts a lot of the magical practice that is associated with

21:07 this particular monotheistic god in the context. So it's not a definitive description of how magic works, it is sort of a snapshot in the timeline and we can look backwards from that to see where other ideas came from that subsequently influenced it particularly in the Near East It is their attitude to the stars and the planets, and the sort of mythology to do with say Venus as the morning star who's sort of Inanna and also becomes Lucifer. And what have you? You start to be able to put it in a context which makes – it doesn't invalidate the story of sort of a monotheistic God or using Kabbalistic magic or any of these things. It doesn't invalidate it. It does the opposite. It deepens it because it puts it in a continuum

21:56 which is sort of the whole point of starships. It puts it in a continuum of mankind's interaction with the spirit world rather than as this kind of standalone, I think this. Yeah and that's kinda part that i've been able to wrap my head around a little bit better lately but even talking about a body of like esoteric knowledge like Alexandria you know, conspiracy theorists tends to again put that in a physical context like there's just a box of goodies that gets passed along through secret societies from the Knights Templar to the Masons and this and that. But I mean, I guess I just never really fully got out of that mindset and put it in the context of extracting knowledge from the ether or from the spirits And we're going to get into a lot of good examples of that. And I guess the first one would be

22:48 to tie it into a discussion of Egypt is Aleister Crowley. Can you talk to us about some of the threads that connect the two there? Yeah, sure! So funnily enough when we talk about speaking of Crowley when we talk about the realization that these spirits have been interacting with mankind, and we need to think about it in that way. Because as you were saying when you look at the survival of esoteric knowledge through time, you essentially have two routes because it has survived or at least its recurred through time and you either have a physical route which is very tenuous from an archaeological evidence perspective... Exactly! Or you have well this isn't some sense true and thus

23:33 Each time the question is asked or each time we respond or engage with the spirit world, this is what we get back. Now, Crowley was interesting because he had – and there's a whole chapter about it in the book – well, a subsection of it but Crowley had several Egyptian experiences that he didn't have the archaeological context to interpret correctly that we do have today And that's particularly interesting because the effects that happened didn't match what we knew of Egypt at the time, but certainly match what they do today. So this kind of obsessed him and I will discuss the reception of The Book of Law in a second. But funnily enough

24:18 This is an idea that sort of stuck with him his entire life and he wrote about it in his old age a few times when he was in retirement home near the south coast of England. And he would chat about it with Kenneth Grant who was his secretary, but actually wrote about it in his journals and they've been published as Confessions of Alistair Crowley And I've got a quote, which is absolutely on point that I'm going to read now. He was doing this thing – he didn't like the Society for Psychical Research. He would bitch about them throughout his entire life because they're essentially competitors. But he was very interested in their research so this quote is kind of on point and Crowley wrote this from his journals

24:59 I observe after a talk with Jules Courtier yesterday that all their SPR work is proof of extra human forces. We knew about them all along, the universe is full of obscure and subtle manifestations of energy we are constantly advancing in our knowledge and control over them. Telekinesis is at the same order as nature's hertz rays or radium emanations but what nobody before me has done it to prove the existence of extra human intelligence and my magical record does this I earn the interpretation of course, but it is impossible to doubt that there is a somebody there. A somebody capable of combining events as Napoleon forms his plan of campaign and possessed powers unthinkably vast." So what Crowley's talking about there is something that we were talking about before we hit record on the show Greg which is that we can discern – that

25:49 sort of somebody else on the other end of the line by how odd. The pattern of synchronicities that are associated with something is something like this is because you don't have it doesn't obey the rules of human logic, it has no human logic and this is something that probably should've realized in his old age whatever these extra he's the word extraterrestrial but when he meant to get a magical sense which is above so a better word for that now is extra dimensional but we may discern that there is an extra dimensional influence on mankind or at least on the earth by the weird auto alignments and any arranging of synchronicities I mean he used Napoleon planning campaign as an example because he was the sort of super intelligent supervillain for the British even a century later because it shows a masterwork of these weird interactions. Now when it came to Egypt,

26:44 have the archaeological evidence to hand because it's only been recent information comparatively. I mean he died in 47 that demonstrates the experiences he had by performing magic, he went to Egypt twice sort of on his extended honeymoon and the experiences he had whilst performing magic there and in particular certain rites in The Great Pyramid Kind of had this is this cascade effect of weird synchronicities and the things that we would associate with ufo contact these so atmospheric events. And coincidences in and repeating names and strange dreams and all these things he had them as a result of doing what turned out to be precisely correct magical right inside the great pyramid to kind of quote unquote switch on the spaceship

27:38 Now what I mean by that is the right he performed subsequent to receiving the book of the law, he called it the bornless right. It's a ritual actually called headless right or the stellar Jew as short term for it and its magical ritual in Greek magical papyri which means it was kind of kick around Alexandria although it was found in the library of wizard sort of further up the Nile in Thebes But the victorian musicians didn't like the idea of a headless right so they used a hebrew word. They kind of use their dodgy white boy cabal to change the words headless to born this because i'm born less one sounds like some sort of you know mystic god crap and where is definitively the headless right and it refers to osiris like if i am half row or so in offices when are the lines on the pharaoh sires

28:36 Osiris was famously dismembered, is associated with Orion which is the kind of headless hunter constellation. And he performed this right in what I think and Robert Bavale has made a very good case for a giant stone map of the Orion constellation or at least the belt stars of it which are three main stars of the Giza complex So he didn't know any of this stuff. He certainly didn't know about Gobekli Tepe, which is a star temple on a hill pointed at Orion with two kind of headless heavenly beings in the middle of the main enclosures and actually in Starships we go through the story of just quite how old this hunting headless association with the Orion constellation really is. Crowley knew none of this stuff

29:23 He accidentally and this is metaphoric obviously he accidentally switched on the spaceship. Yeah man that's a lot of what you said in that response is so key to what I hope people understand, end this episode cuz i think it's the biggest revelation for me as just non human logic and how to identify because its kinda like any language like the more you hear a language the better you can identify it even if you can't speak it, you can still hear something be like oh that sounds like german. You know that sounds like french and its kinda of the same with this non human logic the best way to really get is by stacking up the examples of it which is kind of what we probably gonna be doing for the rest of the show so the picture becomes more clear but yeah there really is to me

30:12 The biggest and latest revelation from your book and i guess can you maybe talk a little more about non human logic and maybe try to define it a little better for people who are gonna have any experience with that is a lot of people a lot of people aren't. Well, I actually think everyone out there does have experience with non-human logic. It just don't think they're using the right words for it because this is my issue with synchronicity and it can be as simple as the most common form of telepathy which is obviously the telephone or email telepathy and people go oh that's a bit of a sink! I was just thinking about you when you rang me. You know well fucking stop and describe that okay? You can't without recourse to

30:55 Something really weird now when you push that a little bit further i mean im known for some popular post on ron soup to do with sigil magic that have been read a few million times and it's kind of the beginning and ending off what ending but its comprehensive beginning to, set your magic now if we do this and bear in mind as far as your where are you doing is drawing those squiggles and messing with your own unconscious the way the results of something like this come through. demonstrate quite clearly that you're not doing this, or at least not in a way that you currently perceive yourself because you will end up with results that show up that couldn't work. So you'll get a delivery that must have left before you sort of showed the sigils and then they showed up the next day and go well what's happening there? And the components of non... The hallmark of the evidence of Non-Human Intelligence is this

31:52 Almost a lack of understanding of linear time or the human perception of time. That's the key hallmark of it. So one of the ones that I like, Crowley spent his entire life because The Book Of The Lord told him that he was a prophet of the new eon so he spent his entire life waiting to be kind of like Krishna Murti figure and you know literally some sort of world teacher That didn't happen. Nevertheless, if you look at the story of the 20th century what you have is and if you look at it from outside so your Iwas, your other beings that are sort of beside time that are communicating with Crowley he's the prophet of the new aeon as far as they're concerned because if it wasn't for Crowley we wouldn't have the modern space age because his acolytes invented solid state fuel

32:42 Name anyone else in the twentieth century that's had a sort of more impactful relationship with rock music and instead of seventies independent hollywood. And everything also the kind of cornerstones are things we would consider the twenty century which is essentially this space race and rock music there's uncle al sitting there in the background if you're looking at it from the side it's kinda like viewing I perceive it as Sort of viewing a like a vortex underwater. So like a sideways kind of vortex As far as that and crawlies at the point of the narrowest part of the vortex as far as the outside non-human intelligence are concerned He is prophet of the new eon because the next hundred years were about space and rock music And there he is It didn't it didn't work out quite so well for him

33:33 But that's an indication that you're dealing with something and he knew this by the end of his life. He knew that he was dealing with something, but didn't think like a human Because it probably wasn't yeah and that is so like what i'm kind of into today's identifying because it isn't human it is so foreign identifying you know the way it thinks and its type of logic i guess searching for some type of analogy this morning for this kinda thing it almost makes me think of the way communication is with like a five year old where they just hit you with all these non sequiturs things that don't connect like if you ask a kid about their day to be like well we went to the store and there was a man with a blue tie and then i got hungry, and like none of it really connects and then we saw dog and then we had ice cream.

34:24 True if you're talking about maybe a super intelligent aspie five year old because you will eventually discern the pattern of a five-year-old's narrative but there is reason why I suspect The probably the earliest god we had according to which is discussed in the last episode doctor with souls series of constructing and sort of family tree in the world's mythologies he rehypothicated the earliest what do you think the earliest beliefs of humans were on earth any cold at the pan guy and belief system or panda mythology.

34:59 And there's sort of a distant creator God that has nothing to do with mankind and we don't really do anything to do with him. But there is a civilizing trickster, so this Creator God sends down some sort of civilizing being but it's a trickster being. So essentially our first god is kind of like the devil because the devil is the trickster in Western mythology Now the reason why I would put to you that it is the trickster that is at the base of this family tree, it's because just when you think you're gonna be done and it does something else and thats why has that form just when you think you've got understood it does something else now across the sort of more spirit friendly belief systems in the western world particularly the south african caribbean ones. You have to get keep a lower gatekeeper spirits

35:52 And the ones associated with graveyards and portal places have a really dodgy sense of humor. I'm not necessarily hostile to mankind but they just don't think like humans so that is an indication that you, whatever these cultures were dealing with it kind of got a beat on it which we can understand it We can kind of put it in a very large box we can't put it in a very predictable box we can put the boxes says its going to be unpredictable now weirdly i actually think that was talking with chris knolls about this the other day where do you think.

36:29 One of the reasons for the popularity of state sponsored monotheism say 1800 to 2200 years ago is the promise of certainty. I think magic was banned because it was so disruptive, on a cultural level like it's really brave thing Take full responsibility for your own consciousness, which is all magic. That's literally what it is and I think that everyone's birthright but it's not a predictable road and I don't think you can build empires very successfully on unpredictable gods and so you have to go with the ones who promise stability through suppression

37:15 That makes sense and another thing about the trickster or to quote you about the tricksters interactions with us you say that. Its knowledge seems to be designed to impress us with its slight superiority and inspire us in a certain direction. And I do think that's the best broad description that you can use to fit all these things into, that you talk about in the book and especially the emphasis on slight superiority One example might be the story you tell from Jacques Fillet of an engineer who had a UFO experience in the 70s Can you tell us about that and how it might be an example of that slight superiority? Yeah, sure. I think it was the 60s but it doesn't matter. Anyway this guy – classic abduction case so on a camping trip wanders off from his friends vanishes for 12 days and in that time he didn't realize he was gone for 12 days but he got picked up by a ship or what he perceived to

38:13 An object like the classic sort of transport a beam or tractor being situation and then he was sort of instantly dropped on a hilltop. With what was it cutting edge computer for the nineteen sixties which is this enormous set at twenty five foot oblong tape winding giant so the computer that you would have at the time, And this relayed a whole bunch of information to him. He was an engineering student, he was off with college friends. He returned and it turns out it's 12 days later his father worked in the military so he quickly had like military people looking for him but he returned twelve days later and his beard hadn't grown and the sort of flower on his lapel by the way that's really camp hadn't decayed or anything even though he'd been gone for 12 days So there are some very classic Travis Walton components to it

39:03 If this is a physical alien, we are now more advanced than them just with our cell phones. Because if this is the computer they bring but it's not I mean you're dealing with an engineering student who needed to see cutting edge technology to have this information absorbed and he got that in the form of this giant thing God only knows certainly wouldn't be my computer if he gets abducted again and is found on a hill but you can kind of back cast this or forward cast this through Any number of these phenomena because that like if you were to do that too. Imhotep the old kingdom architect who is responsible for the step pyramid whatever and i think he had an event like this at least one but whatever event he had

39:44 he's not gonna go to be transported to a sand dune in the sahara and see a nineteen sixty super computer, he is going to see something else because it would be outside his frame of reference you wouldn't get what this grey worrying box was right. these phenomena dance at the edge of what we think of as possible, or more specifically they present the things that they would like us to think is possible and thus sort of human culture moves in that direction. And that's a very good description of what happened in the 20th century if you consider the space race with

40:23 Star Trek and Aleister Crowley, and all these other layers. And the UFO phenomenon now and how it shifted at the end of the war to become what it was. I mean this is straight out of Jacques Verlaine. I am a card carrying Megonian when it comes to these interpretations. His best book on this subject is Messengers of Deception. And when this came out, I've read his journals. When this came out he was surprised usually he pisses off historically pissed of half the people so he pissed off the nuts and bolts people or whatever and that's when he pissed everyone because looking at the data you kind of have a control mechanism interpretation but not in a way where

41:09 Trapped in a prison a control mechanism like a thermostat in the house is example he used where it kind of heats and cools. Culture in any direction that we hope is benign but the reality as we have no evidence for that being the case and actually if you look at how Traditional cultures are traditional societies approach the spirit world there far more mature about it than we are because they approach it. With the necessary caution for what is an ambivalent realm some of the things in their good other ones aren't,

41:47 And this kind of emerges from the fact that typically traditional societies are engaging with the natural landscape. So, you know there are sharks and tigers and what have you in it? They appreciate their good things out there and things that aren't necessarily bad but things that a shark is going to shock. You know that's how it works and they sort of use this attitude to perceive the spirit world and its far more healthy I think than This beaming ufo cultists that we saw in the sixties and seventies. Yeah i definitely would say so and I love that engineer example with the big computer because it does speak to this phenomenon is being kind of illusionary nature or that this entity your being as presenting people with a context that they'd be familiar with and badges shows like such

42:39 High level intelligence like the game their plan is just so nuts and to take this back maybe two you mentioned it parallels with. Imhotep six periods but to take it back further do a place like go back we tap it does it seem to you like the same spiritual information download is what's giving them knowledge of how to follow herds and hunt more effectively, yeah potentially i wouldn't say the same also would just kind of put speech marks around illusionary or illusory just because these phenomena present with very measurable physical effects to the point that you'll find radiation at impact sites and people will vanish and so on. So it's an illusion but it has a physical reality too, we don't know how it works but it does. Going back to Gobekli Tepe, or just in general hunter-gatherer cultures

43:33 If you were there if you're the shaman in charge of what are the charges but if you have a show on associated with particular tribal hunting group you eat when u. Can find the right spirits that will tell you which valley the deer going to run down and what's mushrooms to give to women with having their troubles from pregnancy vs the ones that will kill her and her child and this kind of Although I'm not a Darwinian evolutionist, there's kind of a Darwinian evolution component to that which is the tribes with the best magicians had the best lives. And this is the piece that I think people neglect which we don't need to neglect now that we've got this sort of scientific evidence

44:22 our human consciousness can do this and these beings have some sort of reality. We have that over the last 120 years, and it's a case of backcasting it and thinking about what that might look like in a hunter-gatherer sense. Now Gobekli Tepe presents a number of interesting options for how that might have transpired because those hills around Gobekli Tepe are the origins of all modern wheat that we consume today. And it's kind of the origin of wheat cultivation, interestingly, we didn't cultivate it for bread to start with, we cultivated it for beer which suggests that we were aware that wheat could be turned into things like beer and bread but we just couldn't be fucked there was you know this like pistachios to eat in his deer to hunt and what have you on this grass is einkorn wheat if use leave it in water

45:15 a couple of weeks, it can get you a bit drunk. So that's really worth our time." So you would have them gathering for that which suggests that we kind of knew quote-unquote how to farm or how to garden. We just didn't do it because we didn't need to for a long time and as to how that arose and how the virus of civilization aroused I suspect the other end of the phone line had something to do with that Yeah, I think that's pretty clear to me now. It makes a lot of sense. I guess to go back to Crowley and AWOS a little bit... AWOS was encountered in Cairo apparently in 1904 do you consider the geography of that significant? The geography of Cairo in particular? Well, do you think he could have encountered AWS just as easily in Tampa Florida? Hmm technically yes but also no so

46:14 It's not necessarily the spatial thing as much as it is the time. So if he had a jet, he could have had his experience in the Cairo Museum where you saw the still of revealing is what he called that that had his 666 on it and I know was kind of cornerstone synchronicity for him. If he'd had a jet need managed to get to Florida or Melbourne, or whatever you in theory that could have happened I was came through to him in his interpretation out of sequence because he'd had his He had achieved what he considered his knowledge in conversation with this holy guardian angel which is the sort of apotheosis of the abramalen operation, which you do when it was in its golden dawn days. And then the ayahuasca thing happened and so we kind of conflated ayahuasca with his holy guardian angel. And there were a string of synchronicities after that, after the reception of The Book Of The Law

47:08 So he actually met a guy in New York, Iwas as his middle name. The information is kind of wrong but it helped him put Iwas – he then decided that Iwas was the Sumerian god based on the information of this Sam Jacobs guy with the middle name Iwas that he met in New York who told him about the Yazidis and how they were a survivor race of the Sumerians And so I was is kind of like the devil and his holy guardian angel and this Samarian God. So we have all these weird synchronicities because it's an odd name, and it is odd to meet a Kabbalist who knows a bit about your city culture in New York when you've been the person who has had experience and you think your holy guardian angel was called that. You get very long or very low probabilities when describing this which again speaks to that non-human logic

48:04 Now, what I think he was trying to solve is at the time he was writing this, Sumeria was the oldest culture we knew for reasons discussed in the beginning of the book as to how the mid-20th century and early 20th century carved up history into chunks that it could measure. But when someone looks for the oldest thing – Crowley did this and Kenneth Grant did this – it's because they're looking evidence match for the feeling of that experience because it feels old it feels eternal and there was something about receiving a book of the law,

48:44 a very small part of the much larger story about mankind's relationship with these beings so he was funny enough starships is kind of in the same vein because it is request for. The first time this happened because and by the way doesn't get there but the first time this happens probably very important to me weird Hell yeah it is and who knows if we'll ever get there but you've definitely made a worthy effort. And maybe this is a good time to bring this up because of course I am bred and trained to try to categorize things in a neat little box which, of course, the person's going to struggle to do with this kind of thing just like you talked about Crowley did too

49:26 but I sometimes hear it described as a hierarchy or family tree of beings of various densities, even one big jumbled cloud of consciousness. Or thirdly sometimes just as strange and deeper aspect of the self And when I get out of my depth and listen to high-level magicians discuss it, they seem to come to that conclusion that its some deeper aspect of the self eventually which confuses me. But do you think this is one or the other? Or a combination of all three explanations? What are your thoughts on this?" So the trouble with the deepest self description is that its not really an explanation It's just moving these things around

50:09 We don't know what the self is we don't know the unconscious is we don't know what consciousnesses so if people feel safer if they feel more prepared to explore this sort of thing. and they consider it's fine it just the unconscious or its the imaginal realm or contacting my deeper higher self go for it because those words are all goo we have no idea what is going on, just to look at your other options when you say a hierarchy the sort of hierarchy approach in the spirit world Emerge kind of the end of the classical age when a christian apologist and early church fathers particularly in this case dns is the area pay every other guy. Kind of took the pagan world with all its spirits and all it's good and put them into this lattice structure between us on earth

51:03 and kind of the sort of cathonic or underworld realms, and all the way up to heaven. And so you have all these different beings. So the hierarchy emerges from a kind of early Christian attempt to incorporate the pagan spirit world into the new regime which is fine however this structure over it is an artifice that we have applied to it I don't go your door number three was there the one single consciousness idea and i'm good on that route either. I think the best way to look at it is to go back to an animist,

51:40 Traditional society role of viewing it as a world, as realm, as an ecosystem. Which has some things and it's kind of our job to find the ones that are interested in helping us and potentially things we can do to help them and avoid the dicks. It's kinda like life right? And so for me that seems to be the most appropriate Whether it's right or not is a secondary issue, but that seems to be the most appropriate model for understanding how some of these beings have an independent relationship and how some of them have an interdependent relationship. It's the ecosystem model. Yeah! And I guess to expand on that a little bit in your section... Is it the NUIT formula? How do you pronounce it?

52:31 Yeah, Nuit. The Egyptian language didn't have vowels – well obviously it did but the translations from hieroglyphics so Nuit is NT so it's Nut or Nuut or it doesn't matter. Right on! Well in that section you describe a little portion of the entity hierarchy, and I like how you say that she seems to be a step too far up the cosmological description of the universe to be quite as approachable to humans as her children. That is kind of a common idea in these types of spiritual hierarchies that the higher up the ladder you go, the harder they are for the human mind to comprehend. It almost kinda parallels the way I've heard Lon Milo DeKette describe The Four Worlds Of The Kabbalah if i had to stretch for an amateur comparison No that one's alright and the other one I would use... You've heard Dr Farrell on before Yeah And he talks about the topological metaphor as his kinda

53:29 Sort of metaphysics creation and he comes from a very eastern orthodox have you it's quite good platonic stuff. Add he says the descent of the gods is the topological metaphor so In the Lauretian mythologies that are discussed in the middle of the book, there is a sequence of creation where you sort of have to create God and then it goes through phases or generations of gods after that. And Egypt is no different and Gebbe knew it so Gebbe's her husband. All that and further up from humans you get they start to become cosmic forces like gravity

54:11 something like that. They cease to become approachable as an individual consciousness and sort of blend or dissolve into the wider universe, so in many ways Nuit is an interesting goddess for Crowley to have received in the first book of The Book Of The Law which is definitively the best he even admits that the third book We probably lost the signal a bit there and doesn't like a lot of stuff that's where all the other crawly detractors talk about all the bad shit that's in that like he actually wrote it. He didn't use automatic writing but even if you didn't like book three, i booked one is the best these are the communications from new at the star goddess she's an odd person to come through or not being to come through because if you look at dynastic egypt she didn't have that many temples she was depicted quite a lot

55:00 As as the sort of overarching night sky naked woman body of the stars kind of arching everything in particular and instead of funerary stuff like on the inside of coffins and so on. She was obviously important is a force or concept but she wasn't worshiped in the same way that her children, Isis and Osiris, and her grandchildren like Horus were worshipped as actual approachable gods. So that's kind of like the Jesus family – the Isis-Osiris-Horus bit. These are sort of approachable combinations. And it's odd because what Newt represents is our home to achieve our stellar immortality. Like each night she swallows the sun and births it again. If you look at the Old Kingdom texts

55:48 I need some of the new kingdom ones that is this a process of securing your stellar immortality essentially involves going through returning to do it and she is the stars literally there have been. set of canopy above us now if you're trying to explain something like france's cricks directed panspermia which i remind everyone is literally the materialist scientists explanation for how dna got to earth like directed panspermia a spot slimy rock shot at earth, if your trying to explain that to someone thirty thousand years ago or two in the undertow.

56:27 you're not gonna use the double helix structure of the dna and you can i use all this kind of what we tried to combine amino acids to create this is it when are you going to do that your gonna say your mother is the stars this is where you go back to realizing that Sort of secures your mortality. It's the very famous Terence McKenna thing, which is that the purpose of life Is to familiarize oneself with the after-death state so that their process of dying doesn't come as a shock to the system Which I love is in line and it's just classic him

57:03 But if you're trying to explain that idea of mankind's stellar origins, which are probably a scientific fact – I believe they're an esoteric fact as well. You tell a story like that – you tell a story about Nuit who is almost too diffuse as a concept to be approached as an individual being that can give you immortality in the same way Osiris or Jesus or someone can Man, so well said and that makes so much sense. Another question to kind of clarify the Book of the Law in these channelings would you consider this little saga To be a more recent incarnation of the Moses story or Hermes or the Thoth references? Does the book The Law have parallels to those situations in that material

57:51 Yeah, sure. And moving forward it has parallels with Betty and Barney Hill's abduction and all that kind of channeling UFO stuff that happened in the 60s and 70s. Moses is a difficult one in theory like the Moses story as a description of type of event which is going up on a hill and having some kind of download right now I mean since the seventies we've kinda known Moses didn't physically exist as a human person. That's a motif, just going back to that sort of presidential election view of where we get monotheism from – that is a motif that has survived or tumbled down into Judaism and Christianity from a much earlier time. Moses is the lawgiver type and there are sort of a Manu and Menas and it doesn't matter like… There are bunch of other cultures where you find similar shape to this story

58:45 So, it didn't physically happen to a guy called Moses. But yes there is a type you find similar types of the sort of apocryphal beginnings of a number of grimoires as well where people go up the hills and talk to a spirit or with the devil and it you start to realize that it looks a lot like the ending of Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. Yeah, and we got to talk about the serious mystery at this point because I want to fit it into the free portion of The show because i think this is another great little saga and a great little loop of this type Of non-human logic but To help with the understanding you mentioned The Serious Mystery And its author Robert Temple

59:28 As a good example, talk to us about this because I think a lot of people will have heard of this that it's been like debunked or it was a hoax and maybe we should revisit it. Why shouldn't be dismissed? Yes, so the thing about the serious mystery is that it's actually I had the pleasure of having an entire book attempting to debunk it, but it's not a very good book. You kind of know your argument is on shaky ground when it relies on the testimony of a convicted murderer which is Ira Einhorn and its chief researcher Phil Coppins disavows it the second he comes out and writes in his own – which is still up you can just Google Phil Coppins' The Stargate Conundrum – and writes his own kind of actually that's not what we're investigating

1:00:12 And part of the reason for this is that the Picnics were trying to, I perceive, drum up further support for their largely spurious idea that we get the idea of The Holy Family exclusively from the Egyptian Holy Family of Isis, Osiris and Horus. There's certainly an influence there but it's not how it works. If you read Starships, you'll realize that's the case. Now, the story of The Serious Mysteries is quite interesting because Robert Temple was sort of like a student and friend of Arthur Young, who I mean you've had Peter Lavender on as well. Which means that Arthur Young was at the seance that involved The Nine and is kind in that weird very Lavender described matrix of Oswald and The Nine and elite families and so on

1:01:01 This doesn't appear to have had much of an impact on the serious mystery other than that's where Robert Temple got the idea from, from a guy who is interested in – because he obviously believes in it – in the concept of extraterrestrial beings communicating with humans. And there were these French anthropologists who went and studied the Dogon in the early 20th century the Dogon have descriptions of this Sirius star system, which at the time they couldn't have known. And a lot of things that we actually didn't know in the early 20th century about it's actually not a binary… well it is a binary star system but there was a third one called Sirius C that we consider and I knew the relative masses of it and all these other pieces which you can't observe these things with the naked eye

1:01:48 So there's something going on and is an additional layer to their was quite a few layers today information if you look at. Some of the ads grant in sports he points out that the number or some other spirits of the dogon pantheon look like cells. They actually look like cells and he thinks they can, they appear to be sort of visual descriptions of things like cell division and DNA chromosomes and so on. Now this sort of information is not hugely useful to a West African agrarian culture And so the interpretation that little green man arrived from series and said, Hello Dogon people. Let me give you some dumb factoids trivia if you will about the different masses of our stars and also this is what a cell is goodbye doesn't bear fruit and that's actually not at all what Robert Temple was saying he was If you read the book he kind of used as the opening example of

1:02:51 extraplanetary contact might look like or what the evidence for that would be. And it is, what I call in Starships, I call it redundant complexity and there's quite a bit of it in Africa so at Nub to Playa, it's not only these sort of Orion map that you'd expect as a calendar but the different outlying stones from this main clock if you will appear to have astronomical information to do with the velocity of the stars depending on their distance from from the calendar circle. Now again, that's information that cattle herders don't really need and you kind of see... I view that as evidence of non-human contact because it is sort of information we've proved with science

1:03:40 compelling but was useless to them so they obviously got it means they would like they got the download from someone and use the pieces that they could in any other places they didn't know why this serious mystery definitively hasn't been developed well at least nobody told the CIA it's been debunked yeah if no one's read the series mystery you really need together and specifically need to get the re-release that happened in the nineties because of his ebook came out in the seventies So in the intro to the revised edition, he describes the persistent interest of the CIA in this manuscript right up to the point that they – because he lives in the UK. He's American but he has lived in the UK for I think 30-40 years. He was actually on the set of 2001 when it was being shot out here so there is this weird kind of nexus again coincidences that make you think there isn't a human intelligence kicking around

1:04:33 But the CIA stole his only copy of the English translation, which is called The Pale Fox of that French anthropological study from the early 20th century that I was previously referred to. So the CIA came all the way to London to this nobody writer and stole a translation at that time of 40-year old anthropological study by the French in West Africa That's odd. That's a very odd thing to do for something that has been debunked and he sort of mentions in the re-release, there was actually CIA pushback. He discerns from his publishers in his attempt to get it published in the 90s, there were other people who didn't want to touch it and people said yes then vanished or wouldn't speak to him so on. So there is something about this book that has had people

1:05:26 In the shadows state particularly interested now in the seventies of course you're in. the dying days of the quote-unquote public MK ultra realm, the Stargate program is up and running. And they're encountering beings when they're doing their viewing exercises. So there's quite clearly a desk somewhere in this CIA in the 70s that are aware that these phenomena have a reality that probably has strategic implications. I think they hoovered it out because The Pale Fox there weren't that many English translations of it. And I think they were looking for stuff to kind of follow along that lead, so it's a worthwhile book. I think Robert Temple's books on Egypt are the best as well. When you're talking about the constellation of sort of alternative historians and if you want like an I think the best

1:06:21 alternative historian view of Egypt, Temple stuff. He's a very diligent researcher and he researches across multiple languages and so on it's all very readable things but that that's my go-to and his kind of defining book is the serious mystery Yeah, I love that section of your book about the Sirius Mystery and the Dogon tribe because as i'm starting to understand non-human logic better and starting to recognize the way it manifests, the way it shows up It does seem like a great example and when you're trying to discern what's a hoax and what isn't, I think the strength of its validity relies on that- on the way that it fits that template. You know? It almost seems now to me more intuitively trustworthy. Does that make sense? Absolutely! No...I completely agree And what i use it for..i don't think the Dogon have had the secret of mankind origins but they are

1:07:20 Because we have a reasonable kind of beginning and end point for their information, or for the information they received. We can use that as a model to look at other myths and it's important, I go into this in the book but it is important to realize just how much of traditional societies and traditional cultures wisdom and myths are gone. And that's a result of imperialism but also a result of inexorable march of time there may have been dozens of Gobekli Tepe across Eurasia and its just accident history we ended up with So this is the intertextual thing that we open the discussion by talking about, which is we have this sort of information. We can verify about what I think extra-dimensional contact looks like in a traditional society sense – which is with the Dogon – and so we can take that framework and use it and line it up next to Australian Aboriginal myths or use it as an interpretive framework for Gobekli Tepe. And suddenly we have this key that can unlock

1:08:20 interpretations of the distant past and the nature of mankind's corner of the sky without necessarily resorting to physical aliens and making shit up. Yeah, well my man that pretty much does it for us. I'm so glad we followed up on this because It all seems a little bit clearer to me and i hope the audience too although we did get into some of the Deeper aspects of the book i think no it was it was a pleasure as we were discussing beforehand because it's a I've been looking forward to this because we sort of just started at the second last chapter and went from there instead of starting from the beginning. So, I haven't really had this discussion yet. It's been an absolute pleasure. Nice! And because – I mean, I agree it really is fun and it's the examples and the understanding of non-human logic that makes

1:09:11 that template easier to apply to things and I think in the future it'll make it easier for me to apply to strange things that pop up like the Perry Reese map or the Dogon story. And, I just don't think it clicked as well before so... That is another great reason to pick up Starships! And now you also have a cheaper paperback version out right? Yeah Both available at www.SkyletImprint.com or your local Weirdo Emporium. It's not available on Amazon because the publishers don't do the Amazon thing, they do the independent bookseller thing which is very noble that I mean they'll ship anywhere in the world it's fine. Yeah SkyletImprint.com paperbackers out!

1:09:51 Yeah. Very cool! Well, we got to call it in somewhere why not here thanks for sticking around for basically an extra hour I mean it's always a pleasure and if there is any other information you want to give the people about the book or anything else you have going on before we really close out? No this has been grand, you know, a pleasure of conversation if people liked it get Starships as Greg will attest second read through and suddenly its a new way seeing things Well, Gordon you are the man. Take care out there keep doing what you do. Will do! Boom people there we have it always a pleasure to have Gordon here big thanks to him We recorded for nearly a full three hours But we were having a whole lot of issues with Skype so in the end It was just over two and a half but I'm glad we revisited The topic so soon and got past some of the intro to Starship stuff which is great

1:10:46 Of course, but I think we got into the deeper aspects of what a history lesson from a magical context can shed light on. And sometimes they get a bit tongue-tied talking about this stuff and trying not to stray back into conventional paranormal conspiratorial language because it's just not something I hear every day and it's not gonna be because this is unfamiliar territory for a lot of people This is door number three that remains firmly locked in our culture But I do hope you enjoyed the stories and examples of such interactions, and maybe the templates become a little more clear for you as it has me. It's obviously not a master key to understanding everything that is weird about the past...and present..and future. It is doubtful we'll ever really recover that key. We don't even understand consciousness exactly- how time works, how multiple dimensions work, what these intelligences are… But I think I have slightly better labels on the boxes than I can put things in after today

1:11:42 And I learned a lot more so than on some other shows. I think Gordon reading Crowley's quote about how this intelligence can create these matrices of names and dates and events like Napoleon compiles his plans for war, there is definitely something there and i love exploring it! I think it might be a better explanation for the examples we tend to call predictive programming or maybe The Elite do know how to weaponize mass consciousness to play out events but even as I was editing this show obviously you know Egypt played a large role in the discussion. I was thinking back about last week's show on education and some of the guys that set it up do you remember the name of the main player?

1:12:20 His name was Horace Mann. I mean, what does that mean? Maybe nothing probably nothing but a guy's name is Horace Mann not Horace Manningly or Heratio man or even Horace Smith. I mean specifically Horace Mann It's a little odd. And just to quote Wikipedia and historian Elwood P. Cumberley, Now we might use a little different language for that agenda but in the modern era's largest empire, for the last hundred plus years our system has churned out obedient workers and perma-children and nobody did more to sell it than Horace Mann.

1:13:11 Maybe I'm just going a bit nuts and getting paranoid, but another strange thing that I saw this week was another reality captured in the previous episode of The Simpsons which has already proven to be a vehicle for future predictions alluding to not only 9-11 but also several other false flags in the past. And again, I don't know why, but you can clearly see it There was another one this week in a previous episode of the Simpsons that aired 16 years ago apparently where Trump ran for president. Now, that's not too strange he has always been a public figure and the Simpsons like to point fun at these kinds of people but there is a scene where he is coming down an escalator with a crowd cheering and they are holding signs and then in the animation one person up against the glass drops her sign

1:13:56 Not a huge deal, but fast forward to this current election cycle and you can see some footage that mirrors that Simpsons scene almost exactly. Secret Service is standing in the same area where they are on the animation, the crowd is in the right place... And if that wasn't enough someone drops their sign just like it shows as if they were trying to film a live action representation of that very scene animated 16 years ago. How does this happen? I mean, we're not supposed to really think that the CIA had planted someone against that rail and gave them the okay drop the sign signal in their earpiece. Right? Probably not But a lot of people do think The Elite would have set up that scene. I doubt that but why does Simpsons, the longest-running TV show i think ever have such a high success rate with depicting future events? I mean Family Guy did it a couple times too

1:14:43 Maybe some of these writers are practicing magic in their spare time or maybe some trickster entity has latched onto that writer's room feeding ideas into the minds of unsuspecting creatives in a muse-like fashion unbeknownst to them. Maybe The Simpsons writing room was built on an old burial mound, who the hell knows? But you should look up that example because it is too close to be coincidence I don't know what my point was really cause I still do not understand this stuff But we should look to studies of the morphogenic field, psi effects in consciousness or magic and interdimensional influence before thinking that it was inserted by the elite for some reason. Not that we all think that but we know there are guests and researchers who point those predictive programming examples as being a tool of the elite And I think thats the best answer you can come up with when you don't open this door number 3. I guess thats all

1:15:36 That's my point. The world is a weird place, and it's not that we haven't been born into a Rockefeller Rothschild system of control and energy extraction generations in the making I think an honest examination of the institution of the educational system and the alcohol prohibition conspiracy, textile industry's attack on hemp and marijuana, war on drugs, fractional reserve banking system, for-profit prison system, all the other down to earth metaphorical weights placed there by the titans of industry and great blue blood philanthropists will show us that we have.