David Mathisen | West Point Entities & Star Myths

01:14 Alright, higher side chatters. When we examine the small sliver of the human story we call recorded history and squint to make out what little we can past that it's impossible to deny that cultures on every continent had a serious infatuation with the stars And despite the many unknowns, the mountain of mythological stories and mysterious structures that are built upon the patterns and movements of little flickering dots of light in the night sky prove just how serious the ancient astrological alignment obsession was to our ancestors. From the Serpent Mountain Adams County, Ohio to the Great Giza Plateau from Chinese mythology to the so-called Holy Bible there is nearly nothing left that doesn't tie into this persistent preoccupation with the heavens in some way. So I think we can agree it shouldn't be ignored and we should do all we can to wrap our heads around the reasons for this celestial emphasis in everything

02:06 Many of us also recognize that when it comes to empowering ancient stories and esoteric knowledge, there has been a long-standing and well funded campaign—dare I say conspiracy? To obscure, marginalize, and of course literalize these insightful sagas. To strip them of their internal wisdom and profound truths. Well ladies and gentlemen nobody knows the ramifications of this trap better than today's returning guest David Matheson Because after spending two decades as a man of faith, taught by his religious authorities to take the Bible as the isolated and literal truth of the ancient world he's come to discover the deep star-based symbolism contained within and the Bible's real place among a plethora of similar ancient stories and symbolic myths that had been hidden from him all those years. So with a vengeance and fiery passion of a billion sons David has quickly become one of the most profound proponents of turning back this tide

02:57 First, with his weighty tome The Undying Stars – the truth that unifies the world's ancient wisdom and the conspiracy to keep it from you. Which was then followed up by a seriously heavy and thorough three-volume set called Star Myths of the World And How To Interpret Them. Volume 1 being 500 pages that picks up and compares a great deal of stories from many different pockets in the past. Volume 2 being over 700 pages that tackles the totality of Greek myths and their place in this puzzle and the recently released volume 3 that also surpasses 700 pages, focusing on restoring the star myth context to the scriptures of the Bible itself. I've seen phone books that can't match the girth of David's writings – a man on a mission! And I'm happy to have him here. David Mathison welcome back to The Higher Side. Thanks Greg for that weighty introduction

03:46 Thanks to all the listeners. I'm really looking forward to the show today Yeah, man Really happy to be doing it again Of course It's been a while since the first show we did so you know maybe to get us started talk to us about the evolution of your Understanding since you put out The Undying Stars a couple years ago You've been doing quite a lot yeah well i think We actually you and i met at? Secret space program up in San Mateo in 2014 and serendipitously I was, you know. I had a table right next to yours and i think that was when the Undying Stars had just come out so...I was on your show in 2014

04:27 And we'll get into what I've been doing since then, but with apologies for a quick diversion. I do want to put out a totally unsolicited endorsement of what you're doing and tell everybody out there that I really think everyone should be a plus subscriber Greg didn't ask me to say that he didn't pay him to say that You know? I really think you're doing a service To the whole world that's listening you know that you can listen to public radio and every now and then they'll have a little campaign saying hey, you should keep us on the air please donate. And I think the service that you're doing is equally if not more important so everyone should

05:06 should sign up to be a plus member. All right, thank you man too kind! Hey it's important quest for the truth and informing people a lot more than public radio so anyway back to what I've been doing The Undying Stars really laid out there was the first book that i wrote after as you note being someone who took the bible literally for about 20 years of my adult life starting when I was a lieutenant in the army and I really found a lot of truth and beauty in the Bible and Thought that it was supposed to be taken literally. I still believe that It is full of truth and beauty And actually, I think the good things that you're finding in it have to do with actually the esoteric Nothing is lost by taking it Esoterically except for some of the ways that it's actually inverted and turned on its head and we can get into that later So in The Undying Stars

06:04 I laid out some of the evidence that the Bible, just like all the other myths in the world are built on a foundation of celestial metaphor and i wasn't the first person to make that assertion. That assertion has been made by many people down through the centuries, going all the way back to ancient times One book that really influenced me on this was Hamlet's Mill A lot of people have mentioned it It's been written about you know is influential in a lot of peoples work it was published in 1969 and it points to these connections between the myths and celestial cycles

06:45 processes like the procession of the equinoxes, but it wasn't really systematic and so I kind of became obsessed with this as I started to see that It was in the Bible as well That really threw me for a loop. But once I saw enough examples of it, I couldn't deny it any further So then I had to really get to the bottom of it. So then I Set about to try and understand okay if it's not speaking in a literal language How do I understand the language that it is speaking in? And so these three books that you just referenced this multi-volume series that i'm writing star myths of the world and how to interpret them is an attempt to really systematically Try to explain The language and teach this kind of forgotten language To people who are looking for You know, there are people who are interested in astro theology This term that it's

07:43 It's kind of a actually has been around since the 1800s at least the term astro theology, but I Wanted to really understand it in a thorough systematic way and also not just tell people, hey look at this myth. Here's all the astro theology or here is all the celestial connections in it but to teach readers how to do that for themselves and somebody actually wrote to me and said hey this is fantastic how you keep laying this one out or that one out but maybe you could do something to help people learn how to do by themselves I thought was a great suggestion so Star Myths of The World attempts to do that It's almost like learning language

08:24 With the most more basic grammar and builds up and builds up in hopefully we become more and more fluent and then were able to actually go to the mess for ourselves instead of me telling you what I think they mean, you can go talk to them cuz now you speak their language and you can ask them what they need. Yeah man, a noble goal worthy of plenty of support as well. And obviously you've been busy with these volumes and we have kept in touch where we can and one thing that we did have on the docket to discuss before we get too deep into Star Myths was a message that you had sent me after the Joshua Cutchin episode of THC

09:01 which was largely about food being involved in strange entity encounters. But we also talked about encounters during sleep or in the middle of the night, and you had mentioned that you went to West Point and there are accounts that go back decades of a nighttime visitor in one of this specific barracks with Halloween right around the corner. I figure you got to tell us a little bit about that. That's funny. So yes, I did attend West Point as a young 17 year old off. Off. I went out of high school Look at you Yeah Showing the army at 17 Turn me into a killing machine right? I don't know if you remember that that was a full metal jacket And it was like a punk song in the 80's showing the Army. I think it was Sex pistols or something anyway so I went off to West Point and

09:53 1987 and while I was there, I never had any personal paranormal encounters but There is a older section of post over by the superintendent's quarters which are known as Formerly known. I think as Scott barracks. I was mostly in Bradley barracks and Pershing barracks these are all named after army generals and Scott barracks They were called the divisions because they were an older style of barracks and they were numbered. And there was a certain grouping of the divisions that are known as the lost fifties, and everybody knew because their numbering started at division number fifty and went all the way to the end. That was like

10:38 the oldest part of the barracks, and everybody knew that the lost 50s were haunted. And I remember hearing first-person accounts of entities visiting people in the middle of the night not in a pleasant way And so I was never actually in those barracks full time, but during the summer one time I was in the barracks. But nothing ever – no, I never had any personal encounters. So I did actually get to go back and teach at West Point and teach in the English department We can talk about that when we get into maybe some of the Greek myths I got an opportunity to teach the Odyssey which is you know fantastic something? I've loved since I was young and the head of the English department actually he was a colonel, and there's some very large Houses not far from the lost 50s not far from the old barracks that were talking about called Colonel's Row on Washington Road And I remember going over to his house for an open house

11:36 It was a big three-story building, probably built back in the 1800s. This is an older colonel who's been at West Point for like 20 years—no nonsense infantry officer—and as we're getting a tour of his house it was kind of like a formal open house He said, oh in this room up here on the third floor is haunted. You know when guests come over they see this apparition by that chest of drawers right there and his wife said oh yes and I've seen her too the apparition and I was like okay I'm not staying here overnight so he was not joking and his wife was not joking they'd lived in this building for a long time So anyway back to getting ready for this interview I went on Facebook to my class and put out a note saying hey I am going

12:23 This great podcast does anyone have any first person accounts and i do have a couple to share i want to get all the time but you know what's interesting is. A couple people wrote me back and said, hey you should contact this cadet or this cadet like three or four female cadets. Which when I was there it was only one in nine cadets or one in ten. It was like a 9 to 1 guy-to-girl ratio so that's actually interesting that apparently female cadets had maybe more Paranormal encounters than male cadets did while they were there. I don't know, you know, I don't know what that means maybe You know women might be more tuned into the spiritual realm and guys are I don't know why could be It's possible. And I'm not an expert in that's not really my Expert field although what we're talking about does touch on the spirit world We can get into that so

13:18 One person did tell me her story where she was actually not in the lost 50s but in a different barracks. And now, you know 25 years later she's not sure or actually 29 years later she's not sure if it wasn't some kind of sleep paralysis or something and I won't mention her name but she did say she was actually in room 666 in this barracks and she said She'd almost fallen asleep and began to hear a multitude of quote jabbering voices. And then, a pressing sensation and she couldn't move, a pressing sensation on her chest and that's actually part of the same pattern in the lost 50s that people would talk about. In fact, the entity in the lost 50s was nicknamed The Pusher because he would like hold you down. Anyway she said she felt like a sensation of a river current moving over trying to pull her off the bed

14:16 And then she heard a strong voice. like calling her name and telling her that she'd be taken. And she was really scared that, you know, she was going to die or something and she started like praying out loud. And then she felt like the whole current and everything went back into the wall locker of the barracks where it came out of so... She says looking back I don't know what it was at the time. She thought it was a creepy paranormal experience but she's not sure Another friend of mine contacted me and he is not a not a female cadet, but a male cadet was in the last fifties and gave me a first person account. And he said he has no doubts in his mind that it was a that it was some kind of a paranormal.

15:04 entity that he saw. And he said, I remember it like it was yesterday and He was on the fourth floor second room on the right at the top of the stairs in these narrow old barracks and his roommate This is also in our first year while we were still plebes and this is back before cell phones I graduated high school in 87 so we used to have to stand outside The payphone booths to call home So this buddy of mine who told me this story. His roommate got a message from an upperclassman saying, hey you need to call home right away. A message from his mom and so he called home in the emergency was that his high school sweetheart that is from the roommate was from Slidell Louisiana and he'd only gone out with one girl his whole life and his mom and sister been out at the movies and they saw her high school his high school sweetheart

16:02 with one of his best friends, you know hanging out at the movies. And so he was like yeah he's heartbroken and so that was the emergency that his mom had to tell him because I guess they were gonna get married eventually when he finished West Point whatever. So he came back to the room and he was so distraught He never had taken, you know a drink or chewing tobacco in his life And he grabbed my friend's tin of Copenhagen and put like a whole half a can in his mouth Oh no That was that was how we like dealt with it. It was kind of like a funny response I'll try and get to the actual encounter So I got really sick and was woozy and didn't know You know, he was just like totally distraught over this, you know, he goes off to West Point three weeks later has gone

16:50 his high school sweetheart is going out with his boyfriend. So anyway, that night the person who's telling me this story—his name is also Dave—said he woke up at 3 a.m., had to go to the bathroom, went to the bathroom comes back in the room and says I've got the actual quotation. He said, I turned the lights off to go to bed and as he comes back in the room his buddy Matt was sleeping but over-the-top of him was like this floating guardian angel kind of figure on her knees kind of praying over him that's what he said it he said I rubbed my eyes I went back behind they had in there in the old barracks they had these like partition walls

17:34 Like a little privacy wall. I go back to bed and look around, then come back around the wall and it was still there and moving. It was floating, it was moving... And then it looked at him with its eyes glowing yellow and he said, I couldn't sleep for like three weeks. He said the quote is that he was scared shitless for three weeks because he couldn't sleep. There's an account in West Point magazine from An encounter in the same divisions back in nineteen seventy three where there was another figure who. These days it was also pleads again so this is like first year cadets who are under a lot of trauma and stress you know that could be a possible explanation but they told this upperclassmen hey there's a ghost in our room,

18:23 We can link up to the actual first person account, I won't take too much more time on this. But the upperclassman said okay someone's messing with my plebs, someone is playing pranks on them so i will tell one of them you go sleep in my room and ill sleep in that bunk and maybe we'll catch these guys who are playing these pranks on my plebs This is back in the late 60s, early 70s. This cadet who was the upperclassman was class of 73 so he graduated in 73 and this probably happened in 72 71 So we said he he was waiting He fell asleep And then he woke up it was freezing cold and he felt something pushing down on his chest where he couldn't move he could see breath coming out of his mouth like you know freezing cold night and

19:11 Not only was the hand like pushing him down, but it was inside of his chest. He could feel this cold hand inside of his chest But he said he turned over on his side with great difficulty and saw this entity like leaning out of the wall As if it's part of its lower body was still in the wall and it had these hollow yellow eyes And he said I waved my hand in front of his face to see if you can see me and it reacted It responded to me. And then I with great effort kind of hoarsely called over around this same privacy wall and said

19:50 Hey O'Connor, get over here. And the plea came around the corner and said yes sir that's him you know? He said the thing that was most disturbing was it didn't have eyes it had these hollow glowing yellow sockets which is similar to what my friend described except this was a male figure instead of a female figure but my buddy also described that it became freezing cold and then also in that same barracks you could sometimes not open your door like something was messing with you but anyway so whatever it's worth I do think that probably there are

20:27 points on the planet's surface where maybe there is more activity. I don't know if West Point is one of those places geologically or geographically, or maybe just because of the amount of stress and energy that's generated at that place but if there was any place that would have that, I would guess that West Point would be one of them actually when I was at Fort Leavenworth I was only there for like a three-week course, but that's one of the oldest it's in Missouri actually. I guess you're your home state right and some of those really old buildings there they say are so haunted that even Officers won't stay in won't stay in them So what they do is they cycle in like when they have officers from another country They put them into this barracks. I don't know why Whatever yeah

21:20 Amazing stories. I'm so glad you had a couple in that one article that you linked me to in the sidebar there was also a little blurb about them having a seance at West Point in 1972 where they invited demonologists to lecture and then attempt to communicate with whatever entities were there, they didn't really say too much about the details of that but apparently some movers heard, right around that time, a woman whispering in their ear and saw a woman's face in the basement window that a person couldn't really get into from that angle. So very weird stuff! And you're right I mean who knows it could be the location or someone who died but there have been so many deep state paramilitary

22:04 experiments dabbling with the occult that I'm inclined to wonder if something wasn't released because of some meddling after hours on base or because the base was built on an area that was sacred before or something. I don't know, it is strange. I don't know either Greg but that little sidebar you brought up...I mean that's just another example of why I love THC is cause you do your homework and you know more about this than most people. I will shut up at this point. Yes, anyway you know yeah we got to take it to the stars but to segue into that...I was curious in all the work that you have done analyzing so many stories and myths it's clear that they're connected to celestial patterns but do you think there is a connection to the spirit world or the entities within it? Do you think that's also central to some of these myths and stories

23:07 Yeah, so actually that's a huge part of kind of my analysis of what's going on So as we kind of mentioned I was taking the Bible literally. I found a lot of truth beauty meaning in the scriptures and I think that you know We shouldn't be dismissive people who are attracted to them because I do think there's a lot of truth and beauty but as I realized in People who have heard me interviewed before probably know that the Samson story was the first Real story that I realized this is clearly based on the constellations and Hamlet's mill talks about that one So that was kind of my first where I started to have some doubts And then as I saw more and more stories in the Bible that are based Clearly on emotions or the stars then. I had to ask what could be the purpose of this? Is it just a

24:00 some kind of primitive nature worship. That is one explanation that's offered, is it because people were so overawed by the celestial realm that they decided to kind of worship it? But actually there are a couple ways that... You know there are a lot of people who talk about astrotheology and some other ways I think my work is a little bit different or maybe goes in a certain direction is celestial actors or celestial metaphors are not simply pointing us to the stars, but they're using the stars as a gigantic training aid or teaching aid or visible representation of the invisible world. So we can't see the invisible world but all the different sacred stories myths and scriptures

24:58 have a worldview that includes not just this material world but an invisible world, another world. The realm of the gods, the unseen realm, the seed realm in you know the Australian Aboriginal tradition, the translation of what they call it I believe is called the dream time. It's this this realm of spirit or the gods pure potential And we can't really see that, but if we want to teach about it because it's an important part not just of the cosmos that we operate in. This universe that we operate and has a spiritual component so do we. So were not just material entity, we also have a spiritual component. In order to explain world that we find ourselves in and explain the situation who we are

25:50 the myths of the world use the heavenly realms as kind of a proxy or as a way of understanding the invisible world. That is really basic to my understanding of what's going on Right on and I also checked out a recent video that you had put out that you sent me where you talk about theories of guys like Graham Hancock about a unified source of ancient knowledge, a lost civilization or you know like a cedar culture. And You say that you see this very clearly in the work that you've been doing Can you talk to us about the best evidence of that? That you're finding in your wheelhouse of looking at star myths and mythology Yeah sure so

26:37 Just to kind of lay out in a couple sentences what my central hypothesis is and what I'm arguing, is that all the world's myths, scriptures and sacred stories ancient scriptures, ancient myths and you know traditions that have been handed down are built on a system of celestial metaphor where it's a very specific system like The same patterns will emerge over and over to where it's quite clear to me I'm convinced. It's the same system around the world in other words, the myths of Ancient Greece are built on the exact same system that the stories in the Bible are built on the same Constellation for instance The Northern Crown is this beautiful little constellation that you can see? It's pretty far north

27:35 In the sky it's a beautiful little arch of stars and. It appears in different myths sometimes as a necklace like the necklace of frayer that gets stolen by loki in the north smiths. It also appears as a necklace in, the ancient Mesopotamian mythologies of Sumer and Babylon. It also appears as a necklace in stories of ancient Japan, okay? But we could look at that little arc of stars and say you know that does look like a necklace it's really not that surprising that somebody in Japan somebody in modern-day Scandinavia or northern Europe and somebody

28:19 Mesopotamia might see that as a necklace, but that same little arc of stars appears as an infant in a lot of myths and if you've ever had a baby and you know been in the business of changing diapers and Trying to put a baby to bed when when an infant gets really agitated, sometimes it'll arch vigorously. Like really arch and scream and just pitch a fit. I don't know why but the ancient myths analogize that little arc or analogized that arc as an arching baby in a lot of myths in the Maui myths

28:59 A baby that's either held up, like grabbed out of the fire by his grandfather Maui is hung up in the rafters to dry. Well, his grandfather is the constellation Hercules that's right next to this arch of stars he hangs a baby up in the rafters to dry Well, that pattern is found in other myths around the world. And like we know Achilles remember he was dipped in either the river Styx or in some magical fire in order to become invulnerable? It's the same when he was a baby it's the same constellation that's at the root of that story even in the myth or the story of Solomon in the Old Testament there's this judgment of Solomon where these two

29:43 Two women, actually described as two prostitutes have had children and one of them has died and one of them is alive. And one of the women switches the babies or the other woman claims hey she switched my baby on me and they both go to King Solomon he's supposed to figure out which baby belongs to which mother this famous judgment of Solomon it's a really important story But it's not a literal story. It has all kinds of deep messages for us we could talk about, but anyway in that story Solomon says to the swordsman hey I know we'll just divide the baby up The living baby will give one half to one mom and one half to another mom solve the problem. Swordsmen grab the baby so the swordsman grabs the baby

30:30 And if you look at paintings down through the centuries, the baby is always arching vigorously as it's being held by the heel. By this swordsman who is about to cut in half that's because the constellation Hercules has a huge sword he's kind of giant menacing figure right next to the crown well somehow all these cultures around the world are using as a metaphor this arc of stars as a baby and When we look at some of these constellations, we do not naturally say that looks like a baby or that looks like a beautiful woman but around the world it shows up in the myth as a baby and almost the exact same pattern always getting hung up in the rafters are hanging over the fire so what I'm saying is

31:17 This kind of example and I could cite lots and lots of examples. That's just one that's a very Common pattern around the world that is not really something you would expect people to just kind of hit on independently So what? I'm arguing, I said I was going to give you a brief A brief explanation but I started going down some stories What I'm arguing is that all the stories around the world are using This same ancient system it's a very amazing system it's a very profound and beautiful system but its worldwide you can find in australia you can find it in africa you can find it in scandinavia norway, you can find it in the americas in the maya across all every inhabited continent on our planet and across all the islands of the pacific and you know these different cultures so.

32:11 The question is where did it come from and I believe that this, it's evidence that there are some... It's probably evidence for some common very ancient source, a source that's so ancient that it predates Ancient Egypt because they're using the same system. That can be shown and I could talk about that It predates The Gilgamesh epic which is one of also one of the first things that we have written down on these clay tablets going back to at least 2000 to even earlier BC So it predates the earliest civilizations that conventional history knows about

32:51 And now that we found Gobekli Tepe, in addition to all the other evidence that people like Graham Hancock or Robert Shock or John Anthony West were talking about even before they found Gobekli Tepe. You had all these people arguing even before Gobekli Tepe hey it looks like there's something far more ancient than Ancient Egypt. Look at the Sphinx, look at this weathering etc., etc." And they were completely dismissed by the historians and conventional archaeologists who said no that's ridiculous show me some pottery from you know from this supposed civilization that you're always talking about well then Gobekli Tepe gets unearthed and it's been found to be

33:29 at least 10,000 BC not 10,000 years ago 12 thousand years ago. Ten thousand B C and completely covered in dirt no later than 8,000 BC deliberately probably because of some sort of cataclysm or the people were trying to protect it or preserve it you know we don't know for sure why but its clear evidence for an extremely ancient civilization Well, that's one good explanation. There are other possible explanations but that is one good explanation for why we find around the world this common system everywhere. Another explanation could be oh well maybe the Egyptians sailed around and told everybody about it but the problem with that explanation is like the Maori of New Zealand or the myths of Hawaii were not really

34:23 from a culture that was at the same time as ancient Egypt. So it's more probable to me that they all came from some original ancient source and then the people from maybe this, you know, that survived this ancient cataclysm spread out around the world over their different millennia and the myths started to take on kind of different cultural aspects and the gods and goddesses and heroes and characters started wearing different clothes or having different names, but it's all the same ancient system. Long answer to a good question! No worries no worries I mean you're right The idea of a cedar culture lost civilization we do see these things all over the world And another thing i want to ask you about is The East because you know You've looked at cultures All over We talked about Greece Talked About the Bible

35:13 But when you bring in China and Japan and other areas of the East we see similarities in their myths, too right? I mean there's a definitely a connection even between What we consider to be kind of separate worldviews. There's a connection between the myths that kind of crosses that barrier Right yes, they're absolutely that's demonstrable and it's not you know an area that I've taught on at the college level like with Greek myths but First of all, Hamlet's mill details some but for volume one I outline some myths from China including the myths surrounding how we got the Tao Te Ching. The Tao Te Ching Lao Tzu or Lao Tze depends on which version of Chinese you're speaking whether it's Cantonese or Mandarin or Putonghua or Guangdongwa supposedly

36:08 disappeared off through a gate on the back of a water buffalo. Well, that's very... but he handed off this scroll as he you know or that the gate guard said hey can you give me your knowledge before you disappear off forever and he said okay I'll write this down and wrote down the Tao Te Ching while disappearing on a water buffalo we haven't talked too much about the procession of the equinoxes You know the age of tourists is followed by the age varies and then the age of prices there's actually more to that story that does involve a ram later on like not loud but his follower had to go find this black ryan in the marketplace so theirs. There's even connections to the data chain which doesn't use a lot of mythological it teaches i believe the same truth, what are those so no more mystical fashion that doesn't use a whole lot of

37:01 gods and goddesses running around having battles. But it is definitely in ancient India, and there are other stories in ancient China that can be shown to be based on celestial motions. They have someone who's known as Hong Di the Yellow Emperor who... The Yellow Emperor is related You know the age of Saturn is this golden age, Saturn, Kronos. He's also connected to Osiris this lost king and I could explain the celestial running low on time, but I could explain why I believe the myths talk about Saturn as the king of this world. Because Saturn is the King of the Underworld. Osiris is the King of the Underworld and it has to do with a procession of the equinoxes. Osiris is definitely pretty widely acknowledged to be connected to the constellation Orion and Orion as procession

37:54 take a little bit of time to explain it so I won't explain the details you can go on my website or go to other people who have explained it but precession causes the background stars to be delayed, so they don't rise at their appointed time. They're delayed but its not on a night-to-night basis, it's on the appointed day from one year to the next and it only happens over 72 years they'll be delayed by only one degree. So it takes thousands of years to move from the age of Pisces into the age of Aquarius. Right, 26 thousand right? 2160 if you use 1 degree for 72 years which is actually appears to be right now one degree every 71 point 6 years we don't know if that's been constant It may have... The speed of precession may be slowing down or speeding up okay but

38:45 2160 years would be one age because a zodiac sign, if there's 12 of them is 30 degrees. Because 12 times 30 is 360 the full zodiac so what happens is that constellation gets delayed so that on the a specific day, let's say the spring equinox because that is very important specific day. The constellation that is supposed to be there right before the sun rises will be delayed over time and thousands of years later it'll still be down below the surface and you'll say hey wait where's Orion? Orion actually not a zodiac constellation but he's underneath Taurus well next to Taurus he's actually closer to Gemini so during the age of Gemini

39:27 Orion would be coming up over the horizon, but and that's before the age of Taurus so really far back So he was the king of the Golden Age But as procession delays him delays Gemini as well Then Taurus takes over and on this special day. The spring equinox you look and go wait a minute Tauruses there what happened to Gemini in Orion except this happens over thousands of years? Oh even in one lifetime It's not enough to see it. So somebody had to keep really good records. But anyway That means Osiris or Orion has been held down below in the underworld, right? He's been drowned. He's been held beneath the surface of the earth so he becomes the god of the underworld

40:06 So, like I said the sun sails through the sky. That's Horus up there the falcon god that's... Horus is a Sun God Osiris is also a Sun God but Osiris is the sun after he sets and then he has to plow through the underworld to get back to the eastern horizon and boom! He pops back up and now he's a heavenly Horus again so it's just like the higher self in the lower self except now we're talking about the sun okay? So that's why I believe The osiris figures are the gods of the underworld where there's one in ancient china who is the yellow emperor he ruled over a golden era. Kronos or saturn is the king of the underworld well that's this life so when people say oh saturn myth,

40:54 There's lots and lots that has been written about that. Well, there are researchers I've interviewed who talk about the Brotherhood of Saturn or the Saturn Death Cult and some of the symbolism of Saturn we see in companies that The Elite run so there is a lot of speculation like secret Saturn worship like dark sun worship yeah thats why i think Saturn is interesting but sorry Those people are definitely either knowledge about this or very interested in it. I mean, it's historically provable that certain societies are extremely steeped in this stuff and actually the word elite comes from the name of the god El or Elis which is another name for Kronos or Saturn.

41:42 or at least some people have alleged this, El Elohim. People whose names are Elijah or Elizabeth they have that God's name in their name so elite is related to that and it is related too to this system that we're talking about, I believe. So anyway that is actually a tangent to another point that we were making but i forgot what it was a tangent too. But the holding down of Orion... all these myths come from cycles but I don't believe they are

42:24 Think they can be it's just like kung fu or karate can be used you can have a evil Kung Fu guy Or gal and you could have a good country one can use it to protect the people and one can use it to Oppress the people that's true, so I don't believe that procession is not actually an evil thing And I don't think that Osiris Is an evil thing? I think it has to do with telling us about hey This is your lower condition, and you're supposed to procession is a way of, at least on one level depicting our disconnection from the spiritual world. Something that needs to get corrected in the Odyssey he has to get back home to his wife. His wife is being pursued by these

43:08 boorish suitors who are violent and want to kill Odysseus' son, steal his wife take all his lands. And actually the number of the suitors is 108 if you add them up. The Odyssey says well 20 came from this part of Greece and they add up to 108 that's a processional number so... That's a lot of suitors! Yeah, well so that's why he couldn't just waltz in and say hi I'm Odysseus and I am here to fight you all. He had to do it in a smart way and he had to get Athena the goddess had to help him figure out a plan but the point is its a processional number. Procession has to do with our separation or situation

43:50 We're down here in this world, we're supposed to connect up with the spirit world. We're supposed not just ignore it but be integrated with it and not at odds with it anyway. I love that! And I do have a couple other questions left on the roster for you if you've got a little bit of time? Oh yeah, I got all the time that you want to ask questions. Don't say that! I don't want to wear out your microphone, but I don't want to feel also like we're just on the verge of getting into something that you wanted to ask. Well, I was curious because you also have talked to me about the importance of Robert Taylor and The Devil's Pulpit both Crowe and Santos. Benacci brought up The Devil's Pulpit in previous shows

44:32 But I wanted to ask you about your thoughts on it, or if you could expand on it a little more because it seems to be something that a lot of high thinkers find to be very valuable. Yeah so Robert Taylor just so everyone knows, I believe he lived from 1784-1844. I'm just quoting off the memory so that might not be exactly right but he lived in England and was a minister but apparently had a converse...he actually attributes his conversion to seeing that the Bible was based entirely on constellations, to a conversation he had with a certain

45:10 Miller, you know a person who grinds up you know back in those days they would grind wheat with a millstone that was powered by water basically. You know to make flour if you want to make bread or tortillas or anything you better have flour so this Miller I think he attributes it to a conversation he had to a Miller who said a certain free-thinking Miller who pointed him in this direction and the rest is history. So I wonder how many ministers do suspect this? Well Robert Taylor kind I had the courage of once he decided, he didn't pretend like you still believe it was literal. He went fully hey, I can't keep this a secret. I got to explain that people who are calling me a heretic or the ones who aren't reading it the right way. I've gotta tell you this is the way it works and I think he's probably

45:59 the clearest and most systematic explanation of the Bible texts matching up with the constellations, of any that I've seen. There's been a lot of people through history there is a French author not too far before him Charles Francois de Puy who lived in 1790s so pretty much contemporary but Robert Taylor is very instrumental once I started seeing From Hamlet's mill, okay this is based on the stars. Okay that's based on the stars and I can't stop seeing it because i already knew the stars pretty well and I knew the bible pretty well because I've been studying it very seriously from a literal perspective

46:38 Then reading Robert Taylor who I heard about through Santos Bonacci whom you just mentioned. And i've put links on my website if you go to star myth world dot com at the bottom, scroll down to the bottom of any those long pages will see a link that says resources where i link up two places where you can read online books by robert taylor are so old that they're online public domain he wrote The Devil's Pulpit and another one called astronomical theological lectures which is very similar to the word astro theology. He actually uses the word astro theology a couple of times in his lectures so these were published actually a few years after his death, So he didn't necessarily write them. He was preaching and people came to listen to him and I think you became more and more popular with certain people unpopular with other people. And he was actually defrocked kicked out

47:34 ministry, probably some economic ramifications to losing his job. And he was also thrown in jail a few different times for it spent the total of at least I believe about three years in jail for teaching these interpretations of the Bible so is very systematic. I don't agree with every single interpretation that he makes and the excuse that I would give he didn't have H. A. Ray's system, so he is incredibly insightful if only he could have seen the outlines that H.A. Ray started publishing in the 1950s

48:12 What a great tool that would have been for Robert Taylor. But, Robert Taylor's analysis of these myths is excellent and I cite him a lot when I'm talking about star myths of the Bible but there are some stuff he doesn't talk about or some places where I may have some slight disagreements So I talk about some parts of the Bible that maybe he doesn't cover but you can read both those books online on the web Or you can also buy them which physical copies of some of these things as well just because I like to have them. Yeah, that's fascinating man! I'm glad you brought a lot of that to light and that is a great explanation Before we leave Robert Taylor, one big difference between him and me is he does say hey these are beautiful, these are spiritual but actually he's really cutting sarcasm

49:03 says they're beautiful and spiritual but they're kind of like primitive man's gropings after the stars. At one point he says, you know this is like wild, our wild primitive ancestors who were practically orangutans I think he says and actually I think he may have influenced Charles Darwin some people have said Darwin actually got the idea from Robert Taylor out of that's true or not but I don't think that they came from an advanced, extremely advance spiritually advanced civilization just, you know the Native American spirituality is extremely advanced. Right? I'm not saying oh this came from a civilization that was flying around in silver suits and gleaming gigantic cities. I am saying this came from spiritually incredibly advanced

49:52 people or plants, or whatever. Well just look at the megalithic structures and their alignments I mean there's obviously some intelligence in our ancient ancestors brains that modern history and anthropology doesn't want to touch Right so i'm saying it's incredibly spiritually advanced whether that meant they had dishwashers...I have no idea Right, exactly. And Robert Taylor I think would disagree or seem to disagree on that score so his interpretation of what they might mean might be a little different but he was incredibly insightful and valuable to read. Right on and i also just thought i would ask you...I mean you've looked at

50:36 dozens and dozens and hundreds of myths and stories from around the world, a wealth of knowledge. And a lot of people don't have that kind of experience in studying these things I thought maybe you could just give us a personal favorite Maybe a more obscure myth that contains a message that resonates with you That the audience might appreciate it's kinda easy to see the symbolism in Okay, great. Well yeah like trying to pick your favorite. Yeah so they are so fantastic and I I did kind of envision, oh yeah we're going to do eight or nine different myths during this because Greg has this great long form show. Here we are at the end of our time. We ate it up? Yeah, we ate it up but we talked about some great stuff so you know I know I've talked about it before but I think this ties on some other shows and we can get even more obscure than this one if you want but you know I've heard you talk about Maha Parath

51:34 this great battle, it's spelled Mahabharata. But people who speak Hindi have told me hey you're pronouncing that wrong it's Mha-pa-raht. A lot of the a sounds are dropped off at the end maybe back in ancient Sanskrit they weren't dropped off but in any event in that story Arjun whose name is A R J U N A he's like one of the greatest warriors and He's going into this great battle of Kurukshetra, this huge battlefield. It feels like almost an Armageddon scene. Okay? It's a lot actually like the Trojan War also where we have kind of one side I believe represents

52:13 The lower half of the year one side represents the upper half of the cycle i think all these battles are celestial have all kinds of celestial. Clues and characteristics characters like when character carries a gigantic mace, huge mace that's like any in his basically hercules type character origins brother beam carries a huge mace is his name spelled beamer but he cares as huge mace just like hercules cares a huge club cuz they're both related to the constellation hercules which is often the most powerful figure in any mythology will be

52:51 Related to that constellation right in the Norse myths what figure do you think might be related to the constellation Hercules who has a most powerful weapon or. Exactly so he's he's a hercules figures different than odin is very different kind of a character isn't the most strong But he's a different constellation actually. Thor has his hammer, I believe Zeus is also associated with the same constellation and he has the thunderbolt so anyway in this battle of Kurukshetra in the Mahabharata and everyone who's listening if you haven't People in India actually have all kinds of movie versions of Mahaparata. You can go on YouTube and watch them with subtitles, they even have animated versions so you can do it that way. You could read the whole version online it's like massive in a translation from the 1800s, the Ganguly translation

53:44 is online. You can find it just by searching for Mahabharata, but there's also a great version that is a little bit abridged by someone named Krishna Dharma. I believe he's a monk and from England so he's a Western individual who has been given sometimes when you become monk in certain traditions, you get a new name. So his name is Krishna Dharma fantastic version of Mahabharata but anyway Krishna the God helps Arjun and in this battle Krishna is the charioteer for Arjun and so Krishna says I won't be a combatant but I will guide your chariot and

54:29 I will steer your chariot around. And Arjun is this great bow, he's a great bowman, he has these powerful weapons, he actually goes up to the heavens and gets these celestial weapons which i believe has to do with the spirit world but uh...I believe it was also probably an Orion figure because of the bow there's actually um...an episode in Mahabharata just real quick tangent where he does this feat with the bow in order to win In fact, in the Odyssey when Odysseus comes back in order to win his own wife back he has to do a feat with a bow. No one else can string the bow let alone perform this amazing feat of archery so anyway Arjun is this archer but Krishna is the charioteer. So you have to be careful about that.

55:18 And before the battle of Kurukshetra, both sides are arranged on the battlefield and Arjun suddenly starts having all these doubts because on the other side are a lot of his uncles and teachers. His own martial arts instructor from when he was young who taught him how to use all the weapons kind of this grandfather figure this you know like Kung Fu Revered figure and he's like I don't want to go into battle against them. I can't kill my own revered relatives, and he says Krishna just take me out to the middle of battlefield. I'm gonna I think I'll just sit down here until someone kills me because I can't lift my hand up in this battling Krishna says hey Arjun

56:01 Let me explain to you. You have to go into this battle It's your duty Okay, and then he gives him this great series of examples in that long discourse from Krishna actually is the Bhagavad Gita So the Bhagavad Gita that many people have heard of is this revered? Discourse from Krishna it's actually part of a Mahabharata where Krishna is telling Arjun listen you have to do what's right and and don't worry about the outcome. That's the main message from Krishna is, don't be attached to the outcome whether it's an outcome that bad for you or good for you your job here is just do what right and you have to descend into this battlefield I believe its a metaphor for descending into this world like why would we want to descend into this material world? We're here in spirit world and Krishna says hey! You have too for certain reasons one of things you supposed learn

56:56 to do what's right and we get lots of chances to not do what's right. And we excuse, and we say to ourselves I don't want to do it's right because those bad guys might not like it they might kill me you know if I start talking about this or whatever You're not supposed to be attached to the outcome also not for your own gain you're not supposed to do what's right Because oh If I do what's right? I'll get lots of money. Krishna says now that's getting attached the outcome so That's the message that Krishna keeps saying to him over and over. But one of the neat things is that Krishna is like the higher self, he's like the divine self in other ancient Indian scriptures this metaphor of the chariot... The horses of the chariot are like our passions and our senses and even actually the rains are like our mind

57:47 And some of these kind of yogic texts say, hey you have to get control of your mind. And sometimes your mind will run away with you and so I think this picture of Arjun In the chariot getting ready to go into this battlefield of this life, but having Krishna the divine charioteer actually controlling the horses is a picture. They're trying to say hey let me explain to you what it means they have like your senses in your mind and and all your emotions, all those great powerful lusts and appetites that you have. Those things are all great and they're powerful horses but you can't let them run you off a cliff so what you want to have is let them power you through the battlefield You wanna have strong horses but don't try and grab the reins yourself Let Krishna hold on to the reins So this picture of Arjun in Krishna in the chariot with the horse

58:45 If you're trying to meditate, it's like trying to let go. your mind is going to be running around like this helpful, this is a great example that someone gave. It's kind of like Michael Scott in the office. You know? Michael Scott he's always trying to... He's like oh I'm the office manager I gotta do something we have this problem and I'm gonna come up with this creative solution and his solution is always horrendous you know it totally backfires its totally awful. He needs to get in tune with his higher self Well, he's like our lower self. He's like our mind wants to help us. Oh you got this problem? Hey why don't we do this? It's not that your mind is trying to be an idiot it's trying to actually help out but you gotta get your higher self in touch with

59:35 That's higher side chats, right? You got to get in touch with your higher self to say to the mind okay thanks very much. Now you keep chattering over there while Krishna is in control here. It's a great picture of your mind never going be not doubting and not having problems so Krishna Arjun is doubting. He doesn't want to go into the battlefield, he says this is going to turn out bad I don't want to do it and just sit down here and do nothing. He's experiencing this moment of doubt, this tremendous moment of doubt. And this is embodied in the myths over and over. In fact if you're familiar with the Bible you might be saying what? Doubting, doubting... What does that remind me of? Oh! Doubting Thomas right

1:00:16 Doubting Thomas, Jesus has come back the risen Christ and all the disciples have seen him except Thomas happens to be somewhere else. And so they all say hey we saw that Christ is risen and Thomas says I didn't see it. I don't believe it. I won't believe it unless I actually touch his hands. Then there's this encounter And Christ doesn't say to Thomas, oh Thomas you're terrible. You have these doubts don't have doubts He does say stop doubting and believe but he doesn't ever say that we shouldn't have doubts Thomas is like our lower mind

1:00:54 Okay, the doubts They're actually there for a purpose We're supposed to have like if I leave the house and I left the stove on It's probably good. If I start doubting halfway down the road did I turn this stove off? I better check that might be a good form of doubt so you never supposed to get rid of Arjun You never supposed to get rid of Thomas Christ doesn't say Oh Thomas you doubt it So get out of here. You're not my disciple he says oh believe, and then Thomas says to Christ my Lord and my God. In other words you could take it literally oh this is about trusting in but I think it's actually a picture of your supposed

1:01:34 Just like Arjun in the chariot letting Krishna hold the reins. That's his job you You have to get in touch with your higher self there's a role for your higher self There's a role for your lower self is just like Daniel son when he comes to mr.. Miyagi, and he's like mr. Miyagi I don't believe you're trying to teach me karate or anything Mr.. Miyagi just like Shows him boom you do know karate. Mm-hmm He doesn't say a Daniel son, you miserable doubting person he just shows him just like Christ Just shows Thomas just like Krishna boom That's what you're supposed to that's the picture of kind of what we're supposed to be becoming Integrated with our higher self and there's many myths where it's a female character too or a female higher self I just happen to pick that one is really powerful picture to me. I think it's a great illustration

1:02:23 What a positive and enlightening choice. My cynical mind would have chose something like Sisyphus, rolling the rock up a hill over and over again because when I look at the Rothschild Rockefeller reality in the never-ending consumer cycle that's what I think of. That's a good one! Yeah they contain those profound truths So to put a fine point on all these these things we've talked about do you think will ever get back to widespread adoption of this proper context or have these mythologies and Divine truths been so distorted and so marginalized that the mainstream will probably never get it back again Or maybe not even care again. Hmm Wow, well I do Acknowledge that what I'm writing is probably not

1:03:12 something that everybody is just rushing off to the store to say, oh I need to get that. There's some people that are like, I'm just not interested in that but there's some people who are really hungry for this. Like obviously once I started to see it I couldn't not continue to want to understand it and I believe its extremely powerful and I mentioned a couple times I think that actually the attraction of these ancient scriptures, texts and sacred stories is actually very powerful to all people. And i think they are actually very beautiful and that's why there are so many people who actually take them literally They're looking for something that these texts and stories do have the ability to give you even if your getting through different filters or maybe you know listening to them translated by someone who doesn't

1:04:08 Actually speak the language that they're speaking but maybe still some lights of beautiful stuff shines through the problem is. Literalism tends to invert some of the message i believe this messages hey if everyone has a higher self, if there's a spirit world that always present if everyone has a divine spark and that means every single person you need You're not supposed to look at them just by their outer form. Maybe they're an outer form where you go, oh that person I just don't like them They're a slob or whatever well they Don't just reduce them to their outer form every single person is a spiritual being That has a higher self in a divine spark so the point is

1:04:50 If that's the message of the myths, how does it get inverted into well some people, the Bible says slavery is okay because some people have to be slaves. That is a total inversion of a story like the story of Noah and his three sons I've written about in a few blog posts Shem Ham and Japheth It's literal interpretation has been used misused down through the centuries to say, oh people who are descended from Ham were cursed because in that story ham doesn't do what's right and the other two brothers do so him got the curse of Noah.

1:05:27 and therefore the Hamitic races have to be cursed. Well, it's a total misreading... It's a literalizing inversion of what I believe the text is actually talking about What does Shem and Ham do? Their father Noah actually plants the first vineyard gets drunk Get passed out drunk falls asleep and apparently uncovers nakedness or they come across many dropped past make it on the floor or in the dirt. Hey i'm points out his nakedness into the brothers walk backwards with a sheet to cover his nakedness because is this their father like,

1:06:05 Here's the point. Everybody, if you drink enough wine we're all physical beings. You drink enough whiskey you're gonna pass out and it's a physical phenomenon. We all have this physically weak body where in a body of weakness so we can laugh at that and try to bring everyone down to the physical level. We can put them down and call them names based on their material condition right? If you think about almost every curse word it has to do with trying Call someone a body part or her call someone a bodily function or something physical It's bringing them down to the most physical level and that's what ham was basically doing in that story And the other two said wait a minute, even though he's in this bad physical condition this weakness He's exposed his weakness but that could be any of us if we drink too much. Let's honor the fact that he's also a

1:06:54 got a divine spark. He is our father, let's revere him! Let's walk backwards with the sheet that can all be shown to be constellations so the sheet is the great square of Pisces that you can see overhead right now if you go out at night in the northern hemisphere but it fits all constellation then that means its not about three literal sons have a literal guy named Noah because it's all constellations and Ham is actually the goat Capricorn It becomes a scapegoat. So it's not any people who are descended from the constellation Capricorn, but that is the way it has been applied so that's an inversion because the story is about honor of the divine spark don't put people down to the physical level and how has this story been interpreted? Some people are descended from Ham

1:07:43 we can tell by their physical lineage so they can be put down. So the story's been totally turned on its head, you see what I'm saying? It's like the story is about don't reduce people to physicality and the interpretation that's been given if you literalize it it can easily bend and has been interpreted as Oh, some people are descended from Shem. Some are descended from Japheth and they get to rule over the people that have descended from Ham." What? That's a physicalizing! So I think it is super important message of all the myths is that its supposed to bless and uplift to the spiritual

1:08:22 Try and bring that out in others and in ourselves rather than trying Oh, let's just put everyone down into the physical layer. But how do you get someone down into the physical layer? Well You just start hitting them enough In the nose And pretty soon that's all they can think of is their physical land like you can get someone to just operate on a physical level if you Just start putting them in fear or in physical pain right Right, so economic stress Yeah, simulated but also very powerful or real. Yes economic stress is real I can't feed my family It's the end of the month and I'm out of money I guess better hit up to credit card to buy some beans And you want me to look at the stars right? So yeah so your question was will we ever get back to this widespread adoption I believe that people are really actually

1:09:13 yearning for the true message of these stories, and you can find it in any of them. Mahabharata, Odyssey, Iliad, the Gnostic texts about Sophia... All these treasures that were given to us actually have what people are hungering for and so I do believe that the good parts is probably what people are going to church for in the first place. If its speaking to their lives unless they're psychopathic and want to put other people down, which I don't believe describes the majority of people who are searching for these things. Uh...I think the good aspects that they're looking for are enhanced by this understanding so right i do think it's possible um it is sad though yeah i think it's important to

1:10:01 to put the information out there for the people who want it. Because I don't think it's right to teach someone for 70 years, wax the car and when they're 70 they say hey is there anything more than this wax the car? Nope Daniel-san that's it! Wax a car. It's all literal. Right...I mean we have gotten so distracted and off message in mainstream culture maybe were need from another visitation from the Culture Seeders Well, I would say that the culture that happens to be very descended from the literalist perspective is the one that seems to be doing a lot of starting wars in different places. A lot of harm! Yeah so...I think there is actually a connection to like the literal interpretation

1:10:49 enables, like gives intellectual cover for oh yeah well we can seize this North America from the people who were here before because manifest destiny. Yeah right and so you can get people who might otherwise actually have a conscience it can provide intellectual cover for a whole lot of murder and other horrendous stuff so I do think that it's important to touch on that question. Yeah absolutely separate man from the information and you say, look I'm the liaison between you and God. I'm the guy who knows what God's thinking me and him have this buddy-buddy relationship And I'll tell you what's up? And then you know this head of the Vatican this Pope goes in sanctions all this murder and You're kind of left like huh? I guess I mean he says he's the authority He knows god, I guess I can't say anything but

1:11:45 Man, we've been all over the map. I do love it! You are so dedicated and passionate and you work really fucking hard man and i am in awe. I know you got a couple different URLs out there and obviously several different books please fill the people in and give them little more info on where they can follow up on your working get a little more Matheson Thanks Greg. Yeah, so I appreciate those kind words and I would say that I'm actually not trying to tell people what they mean. I've given some suggestions as to what I believe at this point in my life that they are saying but what iIm trying to do is give people the tools where you can go interrogate the ancient wisdom for yourself

1:12:29 and ask what it means. And actually I think it tells you how to go to the spirit realm, and then ask those questions too. I think that's what is about in lot of ways so as you mentioned I have a long-running blog thats if you just search for the word Matheson and stars you'll find a whole host of links So for a long time the blog was kind my website and not too long ago I started a new website little more Advanced looking and has more places you can go to the video section go to the book section that's at star. Myth world dot com that has some of those links to resources i talked about if he scored a very bottom of any page it'll have resources it also has a link, do the blog in the blog like i said is searchable so you can search for different topics different stars different mess concert for the odyssey whatever and see what i've written about and then

1:13:25 The books section has some sample content from each of my books, including I mentioned the Matheson Corollary. That was my first one. I was actually still taking the Bible literally when I wrote that one so in between Matheson Corollary there's this three-year period where I went through this major spin cycle and then The Undying Stars is when...that's the first book where I realized you know i'm publishing what I know About the celestial content of all the myths so and not to cut you off But do you have any bitterness from that years of deception that you were, you know instituted into because I do Yeah, you know, so I try not to Greg. I mean I did give you know give money to Churches and what's the point? Yeah friends of mine who are good but you know what um, I tried out too I was uh

1:14:19 I actually believe that I gained a lot of good things from those years. They gave me a lot of good insights, and I do think that I had a lot of beliefs about politics and economics that are very different than what I have today in my view of the world but if you don't change Then you're always stuck in the same place. I would say the one thing that's kind of tricky is when you're raising your kids, and telling them, you know because you believe it yourself and they're young. And then you have to go to them and say I don't believe that anymore. It's really there probably been through the...it's a lot easier to deal with these major changes and go oh! I have to throw out that hypothesis. Like I said trying on different hypotheses is really important in being able to change when you realize hey this evidence is not fitting

1:15:15 Forces me to reconsider this hypothesis. I think we have to be able to do that And I think it's a good lesson for kids too, but it's easier to do that when you're an adult than a child I know and it's not really fair to put kids through that. I mean obviously it started with me at a young age I'm sure it started with you at a young age and I mean if we've if we've recognized That there's deception and we've woken up from it Don't we sort of owe it to our friends and neighbors and loved ones to kind of shut that shit down? Well, I do believe that we should like Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita. Do what's right without attachment to the outcome so i don't know what the outcome will be but i think What we gotta do is the task that We see in front of us. We gotta try and figure out whats right To do it in that situation and then do it So I think

1:16:09 I could say, hey, I figured this out but it's been secret for so long. Maybe it should kind of stay a secret you know? I believe that what I'm doing is right to try and put out the information. Of course! Yeah, I absolutely believe that's right now going around and trying to shut down... You know there are all kinds of like traditional family traditions and things rituals and stuff. I think there's a lot of good. I think these things contain truth, i think it is when being used to cover over hey I can take away your land hey I can start this war with you hey I can do all this kind of deception or racism sexism hold women down because Eve is the one who sinned right? Well no she's a constellation and I can show you that so I think we have to oppose

1:17:05 racism, sexism, exploitation, oppression and violence. I absolutely think that we got to do that now going in blasting away somebody you know walking up to somebody and saying hey you know the tradition that your grandfather taught you it's all BS! I don't think that's actually the right answer i think you could say hey I think that actually teaches something really beautiful that maybe you haven't heard you know would you like to know that that's something different. So I do believe that we absolutely have to be adamant against violence, exploitation and oppression wherever we see it so... And people enabling it yeah, I think it should be called out. Well that was going to be kind of my next little question is when does indoctrinating the developing minds of children in this false paradigm of religious authority become child abuse?

1:17:59 Oh man. So, Craig you ask really good insightful deep questions that I think are actually right to ask so what i think is there's a system called Montessori. I don't know if you're familiar with it but... I've heard the term! I'll just use it as a quick metaphor and hopefully I'm not dragging on too long but Montessori is a great way of teaching children It takes abstract concepts and gives them physical form. There is a tool in Montessori, Children can play with this thing and construct it put it together It's called the binomial cube, and there's another one called a trinomial cube And there's these bead chains that represent you know the fives table or the tens table learning You know the seven seven times seven is 49 and look here These beads if you stack them up they make a square forty nine seven squared. You teach them in the binomial cube

1:18:53 Okay, they may be three years old when they're introduced to the binomial cube now most of us encounter Binomials like in high school algebra because it's this formula when you take a plus B Times A plus B with parentheses. You know and then you get a squared plus AB Plus BA You know that's a binomial three-year olds don't usually learn binomials but they learned the binomial cube and they play with it and And then, actually much earlier than high school Montessori teaches a first grader or second grader third grader. Hey you know that cube you've been playing with? Yeah the binomial cube yeah I know it well you know what it is? It's a binomial. What's a binomial let me show you and then you show them and say see this little red cube in the binomial cube thats uh that you've been putting together thats A cubed

1:19:41 square part that has red just on one side in a square, that's A squared. And the kid goes, whoa! Now I understand a binomial and now I know what the binomial cube is all about it's like Danielson had to get first taught waxed car and Mr. Miyagi didn't say By the way, this will be how to stop Johnny's crazy roundhouse kick. He just whacks a car but it would be a crime to leave him forever at the age of 70 and say you know what binomials? You don't get to know those see I i don't think it's wrong to teach the children David and Goliath and then I do think it's wrong to never tell them hey

1:20:21 Now you're 13, age of manhood or age of womanhood whatever. Let me tell you what David and Goliath is actually about this." Oh wow! You mean that applies to me? Yep it applies to you It's not really about David and Goliath because David is right here in the sky and Goliath is right there. And that's exactly what the church hides I mean they never give you that later lesson and they teach the literal myth That's exactly which your fighting against Well, they never gave it to me in the 20 years I was there. Exactly! It's a system of deception. They've perverted the myths and that's kind of what we've been talking about all this time but the thing is they still do it today. They're doing it on Sunday probably just a few blocks away from your house and the pattern repeats So yeah...

1:21:11 Find a teacher to children, but I think it has to be you teach them the kung fu later on and it has to Be hey this kung-fu is not for oppressing and hurting people or taking away their stuff It's for protecting. You know when that person whose weaker is getting oppressed by this bully? You may need to use it And I think that all the spiritual components, you know we started this whole thing off talking about spirit world. I think that whole spirit component is absolutely real you know that you talk about with Gordon White You haven't had him on there for six episodes because it's not real he's talking about real stuff right? Yeah and actually in Solomon

1:21:48 There's a vision where Solomon is asked in a dream, what do you want Solomon? I'll give you anything. And Solomon says, I want wisdom and God says to him because you didn't ask for riches and because he didn't ask for hurting your enemies, I'm really happy that you asked for wisdom. I mean, it gives you a wise heart and it will give you also riches and good things too but so we're not supposed to go the spirit world to hurt our enemies or gain riches. That's not... When Solomon makes his choice God is happy that it's for wisdom and helping, and he actually says I need wisdom to help the people. And then the next thing that happens is He helps these two women with this situation in the babies That's the purpose of it So yeah, I absolutely believe that people who are using things for domination It needs but I do think there's probably also a lot of people are teaching it who sincerely believe it as literal I do think that right but Nazi soldiers they were just they thought they were doing the right thing by following their orders too

1:22:46 Yeah, so you know I'm putting this out there publicly and yeah absolutely agree we need to stand against violence and what... And that good people. So that's absolutely right! Good people. I was in the army for a long time and never thought anything that i was doing was wrong right? Now I look at what's going on and say oh my goodness can anyone see what the heck is going on?! It's not about what you think it is about. We live and learn. Yeah, you got to wake people up so I do agree that there is that component. No, Greg your instincts are absolutely right. Your heart is actually telling you the right thing. I do think we have to stop those things and I think the right way is to actually wake people like what Martin Luther King did

1:23:30 was to appeal to people's conscience and say, look here is the way to stop it. It is to show people hey you're not really for hitting people over the head with bats and axe handles are you? I don't think your really about that. No See he woke up people up as opposed to trying to say well I'm gonna overthrow that with violence its not going to work Right And you make a great point That is what your work is doing The noble goal of enlightening and waking people up That's what you do and you're dedicated to it. And it shows I really appreciate it, I'm sure the people do as well thanks man! Always a pleasure You are the man! No, YOU da man We gotta start wrapping up somewhere might as well be here Thanks for doing it again always a pleasure take care out there Thank you Greg

1:24:22 But that's not all folks. After already being kind enough to spend an extra half hour with us on todays show, Dave hit me up and said you know I was thinking about some of those topics towards the end Saturn and elitism in particular And i kinda want to say a bit more on that for the people if we could And of course I'm gonna let a man make his point so we hopped back on the line to record a little icing for this particular THC cake. So keep your lap bar securely fastened because this ride ain't over just yet! So this will be a little addendum to that show because we didn't fully wrap up the points about Saturn and I guess the idea that Saturn or the question of is Saturn in the God of this world so, I will turn the mic over you David what do you think?

1:25:13 Great. Yeah, so very important question Thanks for putting a little addendum on because I do want to kind of clarify a little bit So I mentioned elite ism and I don't want to I really don't want anyone to come away with the impression that I'm trying To excuse the concept of elitism and I mentioned that some people in fact Robert Taylor believes that the word elite ism comes from the name for Saturn and He talks about this actually in Astronomical Theological Lectures, but I don't want anyone to think that Pro-elitism actually I think that is a total inversion of everything that I've been trying to talk about right, right? Yeah you know what I believe the ancient myths are actually saying using the stars to Explain is that every single man and woman it has an inner connection to the infinite or to the divine if you want to call it that like I mentioned that quotation from Plato

1:26:14 right at the beginning of the conversation that each man and woman is a combination of animal and God. There's a divine aspect, but we often forget that divine aspect or we deny it in ourselves and in others. And what were supposed to be trying to do was reintegrate with both parts so that were lifting up rather than beating down ourselves and others. So elitism actually turns out on its head by saying Some people are better than others, you know the elite right? You know elite soldiers are better than everybody else or elite people can sacrifice the kind of the mobs and the masses to To make a better world for themselves That's the total inversion of the idea that every single man and woman and child that you ever meet has this

1:27:03 inner divine spark or interconnection to the infinite and is equally infinitely valuable. So that's the main thing I wanted to tie it into, so...and I'll throw it back to you to help me clarify but to tie it back in what I was trying to explain is I believe the whole Osiris myth which is also related to the Saturn myth and the Kronos in ancient Greece. The Titan Kronos, who is the son... He's one of the premier titan who takes charge to overthrow his father Uranus or Uranus their god of the sky you know that infinite heavens. Kronos famously overthrows his father

1:27:55 I don't want to go too long, but we could get into the story and show how it is related to Orion. The same constellation that Osiris is related to and then that in Latin becomes their god Saturnus or Saturn. And actually Robert Taylor alleges that the name Ellis is the Phoenician name for this same god. Saturnus in Latin, Ellis in Phoenician so that's where this word elite according to some people, and Robert Taylor actually cites a very early literalist Christian writer and ferocious arguer for literalism against Gnosticism named Eusebius. An ancient writer named Eusebius is actually the source

1:28:43 for Robert Taylor's assertion that Elus, E-L-U-S is Saturnis is Kronos the same figures where we get the word elite. So to round off my point I believe that myth actually of Osiris being slain and banished to the underworld all the myths actually are trying to elaborate on our human condition that we are like a god, that's been banished to the underworld. We have this divine spark but we've been encased in clay just like Osiris goes down under the underworld our divine spark has been encased in clay inside our human body which is you know made of water and earth or lower elements so it's actually a message that supposed to

1:29:37 Uplift everybody or supposed to tell you who you really are hey, you have a divine spark don't forget that part of you and everyone else. You meet has a divine spark elevate that don't focus just on the clay focus on the divine spark in and try and bless and elevate that spark And then to take that and turn it into elitism, which says oh yes we can do these horrible things because Saturn is the god of this world would be a terrible inversion. I believe in a mistake or misinterpretation or an inversion of what the ancient wisdom in all these myths are trying to teach. Fair enough but you know we do see a lot of conspiracy researchers pointing out

1:30:19 Multiple multiple Saturnian references and pop culture and logos of companies you know a lot of these guys they talk about. That's what the elite are doing. They worship Saturn, they're trying to bring the archons from the Saturnian realm into our existence and obviously you can get into symbolism like the black cube which is shown a lot of places and the cap and gown from graduation is apparently a Saturnian reference so I mean yeah there's a lot of Saturn stuff in our culture and these researchers talk about it being because

1:30:56 you know, the elite secretly are worshipping this dark entity represented by the planet Saturn. I mean is that what you think some of that stuff's about? Do you think they're misinterpreting the myths?" Yeah so all those researchers that you're talking about are talking about real evidence. So the question is how do we fit this evidence actually nothing that I said denies the possibility there are people who believe themselves to be elite and are either literalizing these myths or they understand the Gnostic aspects, applications what I call the Kung Fu kind of applications of these myths very well. And they've chosen to be like the Cobra Kai school you know in The Karate Kid, The Cobra Kai School They know karate! They just happen to be using it to beat up on everybody and take Johnny out

1:31:52 At that chain-link fence and sucker punch him and then just wail away on him as much as they want once They've sucker punched him once he can't stop any more kicks so Johnny can just keep hitting them in the face, right? So you know all those things that you mentioned You know they also point to the black robes in the court system right this oh Black is a Saturnian color in I mean there's layers and layers and layers of this And there are people who are very knowledgeable about the astrological, you know. There's layers of astrological knowledge if you set up the zodiac wheel, the sun is associated with a certain place on that astrological wheel and then the moon is next to the sun and then you go out from Mercury is on either side of that pair

1:32:41 and then Venus is on either side of Mercury, and you work your way out. And you get all the way down to Saturn will end up being exactly opposite the Sun so they are actually adversaries astrologically speaking right? You know adversary is actually a term that we have in court right or there's devil's advocate um well adversary is the opposite in The Bible John the Baptist says he must rise or he must increase I must decrease this is a you know This is celestial language right when one constellation on one side of the Space as we're facing space out into the night sky When there's a constellation on that side is rising The constellation on the other side of it as returning is going down. All these things are actually celestial imagery so

1:33:28 But they're not just talking about, they're talking about the real spiritual plane. That's what I'm trying to say is all these myths are not I'm putting little quotation marks with my fingers, not just about the things that are happening out in space as majestic and magnificent as those celestial phenomena are. But they are actually a stand-in to help us understand truths about an invisible realm that does have invisible powers in it spirits, you know the Egyptians called them Neters or Neteru, the gods. These powers these entities that a shaman will go consult with for good or for bad purposes those are real phenomena those are real aspects of the dual spiritual material realm in which we inhabit and the myths are trying to tell you about that so

1:34:26 To wrap up a very long answer to you. A very good question that you just asked I don't know whether someone is a Misinterpreting it or be they understand it very well, and they're tapping into The higher kung-fu that the wax on wax on wax off represents They know the karate and perhaps Some people who know karate are using it to be like the Cobra Kai school as opposed to being like the Mr. Miyagi School of protect Daniel San and not go around beating people up, right?

1:35:02 It's hard to really understand what is going on with the elite. I mean, you had written here that your position is that elitism is bullshit because each man and woman are equally connected to the infinite realm and contains the infinite or divine realm within them so elitism tries to turn it on its head, invert the myth and say basically argues some are better than others. The question is can the elite with enough dedication are they able to change the myth or change the impact of the myth basically through this inversion are they destroying the original meaning. Wow so this is why it's great to have someone asking great questions cuz it helps bring you know new thoughts out that

1:35:52 You know, that's a fantastic question Greg. I'll tell you this...I don't know all these answers. I am trying to explain the language to point people to the original ancient wisdom and say hey go consult the ancient wisdom it teaches These wonderful truths, I think these are the truths that it's teaching. But once you know the language you can go ask but so that's not trying to also make a cop out. So now I'm going answer your question. I'm not setting myself up as the guru or the interpreter of this information. I am pointing people to the source of wisdom itself, but I will say that it is possible to trick people into thinking they are not worth anything and that they are not powerful.

1:36:46 Says oh look at the masses right? Democracy what a failure of course it's a failure because you have these unwashed Rabble voting for president I mean look look at look. It look at what the rest of the world must be You know I'm trying not to bring politics into this but but the whole world must be looking hit What's going on right now and saying oh my goodness is You're right, democracy is a horrendous failure. Look at these two main candidates that the American people are putting forth and I would say – I hope that the rest of the world knows that probably 90% of the United States is horrified or the men and women that are watching this spectacle

1:37:31 Right here in this country where we're living are horrified and going what on earth is going on. This does not represent me I hope nobody else thinks this does right but the point is you know It could be a gigantic spectacle to undermine the whole idea of that men and women can rule themselves without an elite Okay, so I don't know if that's a good example To answer your question But what I'm saying is I'm not sure If the ancient wisdom can be changed, I don't think so. I think this is universal truth about every single man and woman is infinitely valuable and doing violence to them or doing violence to a child is infinitely wrong There's nothing you can do to actually change that That is totally wrong but you can get people to think oh yeah I'm nothing

1:38:21 private in the army and this guy yelling at me is the right situation. This is the natural order of things, I should just open myself up to this abuse." I don't think someone should open themselves up to abuse but you do get these kind of psychological Stockholm syndromes or codependence that's an actual fact of life where people believe they deserve to get abused And that's wrong, but they've been... That's an inversion of the truth or it's an inversion of the real situation. Everybody wants to tell that person, hey stop letting him treat you like that why are you doing this yourself? and say wake up don't do that so It's a complex question you asked but I think its possible to trick

1:39:10 or to impose a lie on everybody. We know that's true, we know it's true to impose a lie on everybody but I don't believe that it changes the truth. Well, if Saturn really does represent power, dark power in some type of way, it could just be as simple Esoteric workings through magical ritual they are communicating with this entity or a pantheon of our contact entities that reside in the Saturn. Area and they could just be paying tribute to them an exchange for little extra when it comes to their power and control

1:39:52 It's no surprise that the actual references we see come from some of the biggest companies, the most powerful players on the world stage. I'm sure it's not a coincidence. Maybe they're doing it out of superstition but maybe that's how they're actually getting a little bit of their power or retaining their power. No and like you know I use the Kung Fu example. Kung fu really works and can be used to actually harm people or any martial art, ones that really work can be used for protecting others or hurting others. And so if tapping into and which I believe is true tapping into the invisible realm really works which it does then it can be used just like bad

1:40:41 you know, the Cobra Kai karate school. And it's also numbers and symbolism of the number 72 and the number 108 these are these are numbers that have to do with procession in the actual Orion myth The the Osiris myth as I was kind of explaining a little bit This is the you know, I was I was opening up this door But I didn't fully elaborate on it So I felt like I wanted to make sure and even open up and it is a huge can of worms I can't completely I can't completely close it but I didn't want to feel like I opened up a can of worms and just left it wide open with Worms going everywhere. Oh Cyrus. Oh Cyrus's held under the earth and killed by set his brother set that is a processional

1:41:26 Myth and it can be shown to be a processional myth Hamlet's mill talks about it. A book called Death of gods in ancient Egypt by Jane B Sellers has some very good explanation of it I talked about it in volume one of star myths of the world Set is the brother that kills Osiris. This is just like in Lion King where Scar kills Mustafa and then the son which is Simba, in The Lion King, the son has to deal with this... okay the father's... and the son in the Egyptian myth is Horus is the son of Osiris that has to battle with Set. And in The Hamlet, the reason Hamlet's Mill is called Hamlet's Mill is if you read Shakespeare's Hamlet, the exact same thing happens. The king Old Hamlet has been killed by his brother Claudius and then Young Hamlet has to deal with this situation just like Scar killed Mustafa in Lion King so that's why Hamlet's Mill was called that there was a Germanic myth

1:42:27 about a character named Amlethus. And if you read Hamlet's Mill, it is basically explaining this Saturnian story around the world with all these different figures—Jamshid in ancient Persia and Exciata which may be the source of the… Yima-Exciata might be the source of the word Saturn or God Saturn So what I'm trying to say is they do use these Saturnian symbols or we do see these Saturnian symbols popping up like oh This couple was married for 72 hours and then got a divorce. Huh? I wonder if that's a coincidence 72 Osiris was slain by set and his 72 buddies, you know, why does 72 keep popping up everywhere Why does 108 and I believe those numbers actually have to do with

1:43:19 you know, the myth that tells us that we are all divine on the inside but we're down here in this underworld and we have to reconnect with our higher self. All these positive things I don't think those numbers are negative just like The King Arthur Myth Is King Arthur a negative figure? Are we afraid of King Arthur? King Arthur is the same pattern The Saturn figure goes to...is banished into the underworld and has to sleep in this cave of Ogidja under the waves, the magical cave under the ocean. King Arthur is charmed underneath the lake by the lady of the lake and he's sleeping down there somewhere. And someday, he'll come back He's the ruler of this lost golden age and some day he'll come back All these myths are actually trying to tell us about the invisible world about our connection to the infinite King Arthur is not a...He's a benevolent figure that ruled over a golden age That's now lost so as Saturn So is Osiris I think it's being inverted

1:44:19 So using a bunch of King Arthur symbolism shouldn't in and of itself be negative But I do believe there are people inverting these myths so I do believe that is going on. Yeah, it's undeniable It's definitely happening like bring up That's what I wanted to clarify now You know that's and that's the main thing I wanted to clarify sure as I believe this version is going on but I do believe it's an inversion And it does and it doesn't need hurting little children should be stopped. Organizations that do that must be stopped from doing it, right? Or broken up you know... You don't allow that to keep going on so and you don't say oh well Saturn devoured his children So this is a pattern that he's the god of this world so we can do it with impunity No! You can't

1:45:09 And so it's universal law that's baked into the world or God's law or the divine law. It's actually an inversion of what I believe, but like I said inverted or literalistic interpretations can be used to give false cover or false justification Oh we're allowed to go take these people's land away from them because of this literalistic interpretation That's an inversion right? So That's what I wanted to say. For sure, man! Cool well... I don't want to make a three-hour show but I wanted it that way It's almost gonna be there anyway which is totally fine. I mean it's not the end of the world. That's the joy of having full control over my own airwaves as it can really be however long it needs to be. You start asking people for more than two hours and they generally kind of recoil

1:45:59 Well, no. Thank you man I came back to you You know so the listeners know and said hey I felt like we kind of opened up this big door And I don't feel like I explained what? I was trying to say for sure So hopefully that explains it a little more It's a huge deep topic that is but this stuff touches on everything is truly the case here I mean you've covered in multiple 500 page books and you're still not done. So it is a deep rabbit hole for sure! Is there anything else you wanted to add just to put a fine point on the larger scope of our conversation before we really call it in? No, I think this is... You know, I really want to say thank you It's necessary to cut, you know conversations as how we should be getting together with our friends and talking things over because like when more people get together

1:46:51 Third knowledge that wasn't there before comes out. It's like whoa, that wasn't just for me and it wasn't just from you it's this third additional knowledge that rises up out of the cauldron when we're all stirring it but amen yeah the closing idea that I believe is the important message is Don't get caught up in the labeling of the external. Oh that person is a You know they're trying to divide us up by race because it's very easy to do that you just Just it's so easy to incite that oh those people are coming over here to Europe and raping our daughters, okay? Well great I hate them now That it is absolutely very easy to divide people by the externals and the ancient wisdom

1:47:38 is actually telling us, hey the external part isn't what matters. You know it's not the part that matters in you. You know its this inner connection that's the part that really matters. Someone might say well my tradition is this set of myths and your tradition is that... Well I'm saying if you go back far enough they're obviously all from the same place! So we're all apart of the same tradition and you can show that with these constellations so Don't focus on the external, don't let them divide us up. Even when you're driving down the street and someone cuts you off remember that's a... That's a divine spark right there! That's an infinite person in there give him the same kind of... You've been taken over by your emotions

1:48:26 Probably plenty of times I know I have so right That's what we got to try and focus on because they will try and divide us along those external lines They absolutely are doing that wise words, then. I agree with what you say about conversation one of the Most common emails I get is people saying man I just love this show because there is nobody I can talk to about these ideas in my regular life I can't talk to family they wouldn't get it Can't talk to friends camp bringing up two co-workers God no So I understand that a lot of people are out there wanting to scratch that itch and it's difficult. So they kind of listen as the third party in the little smoke circle here, and they're just kind of you know, a silent person on the line but people appreciate it. I appreciate you coming back and adding this little bonus to the end of it. And with that man take care yourself! I'm sure we'll talk again

1:49:22 Hey, likewise. I wish you a million more excellent shows and sacred plants." Alright people this one is not a drill it's the real thing another THC episode comes to a close A part of me did want to break down more individual myths with David but i think you really need the visual context that he gives in the books To really see the points making when it comes to interpreting some of the symbols But I appreciate his work He is quite a beast with books this huge And I know David is a plus member too, so please leave some comments or questions for him and hopefully he'll jump in. That seems to be the most active place for feedback these days anyway We were also talking again today in email because I had some thoughts about some of those nefarious passages like the ones in Leviticus if a man commits adultery with another man's wife with the wife of his neighbor both the adulter and the adulteress are to be put to death

1:50:19 Or, if a man has sexual relations with the man as one does with the woman both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death their blood will be on their own heads." And then there's that big paragraph about the logistics of buying slaves in Genesis Now these are the rules that you shall set before them when you buy a Hebrew slave he shall serve six years and in the seventh He shall go out free for nothing If he comes in single, he shall go out single. If he comes in married then his wife shall go out with him if his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters the wife and her children shall be her masters and he shall go out alone

1:51:03 But if the slave plainly says, I love my master and my wife and children. I will not go out free then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the door post, and his master shall bore his ear through with it all, and he shall be his slave forever." And those things don't sound good. So I asked David, what's up with this stuff? These passages pretty clearly don't have anything to do with star myths and he said you just gotta parse out the stories from the Bible and connect them to other stories of course there is a lot of other stuff jammed in that book too that isn't really relevant...and i get that clearly we know entire books were left out of the official canon of the bible so I will give him that totally fair points

1:51:49 But I am glad we came back to talk about Saturn more. Did you see the headline going around the last few days that Saturn is changing colors and nobody knows why? What's up with that, people?! But there we have it, an extended show to close out the month of October. Of course there is another hour for the plus people but even the free show I think here is close to two hours If you're not a member of the Hireside Chats Plus yet just go over to www.thehiresidechats.com scroll down at the bottom sign up for the free week trial and you can hear everything I've ever done in the next seven days on The House if you really want to do that to me

1:52:26 But I hope everyone's enjoying the good time we call Halloween, and i'll be back before you know it. Your move conspirators of the cancerous context of the ancient fragmented universal system of knowledge... You're fucking ZOOED! Lucid dreams are so vivid, cause you go to bed at seven And your brain comes alive because you hate your nine-to-five You wake up with a dread and make sure your cats are fed Did your brain talk to a ghost who moved your coffee and toast As you listen to the higher side chats You get to your desk and your boss says it's a mess And your soul slowly goes To a place where nothing grows When you think he's not around, you insert a SETI sound The OM says turn it down and you say It's just the higher side chats Oh do you think you'd be invited? To Bohemia Grove, to a Bilderberg club Do you think you'd be invited

1:53:32 by a Rothschild to a party on a submarine. Diving down, to the center of the earth through the Marianas Trench your teeth begin to clench from the sulfurous stench The mask you're given doesn't fit cause you're not one of them Starting today, you'll make plans to get away. There's no one to hold you down and the what-ifs start to drown Then you wake to the glare of a cofluorescent stare And the light winks at you cause its life is almost through But it's holding on to quit time just like you It's time for The High Side Chats!