Chris Knowles | XF-ULTRA, Conspiracy Culture, & Anne Heche

00:00 The planet's puppet masters all most surely have a plan. There clearly may be something they've planned, and until we thoroughly tested it last close-chested view I find the more we think we know the less we really could WE BE! Without THC cause we know they're lying to us just don't know to what degree So, we're gonna have to wait and see.

00:55 Even better would have been somewhere in the late 90s, just before the technocracy got to work on infecting our every waking moment with manipulative devices that projected never-ending scroll of attention grabbing nonsense overhyped headlines anger inducing algorithms and a fire hose of infinite uneducated opinions we didn't realize we were so lucky to live without. It felt like there was just a bit more cultural glue holding us together back then. And from its first episode on September 10th, 1993 the X-Files 13 year run was a big part of what made that decade so interesting. It wasn't the only show or even the first to fold in nearly every theme of the conspiratorial counterculture but few weaved a tapestry so rich that apparently even the CIA started to wonder where some of these ideas were coming from

01:38 Secret cabals, covert alien invasions, hybrids implants mind control brain scrambled assassins lab engineered viruses black goo secret cosmic wars super soldiers and a cornucopia of conspiratorial goodness right smack in the middle of prime time not so subtly reminding viewers to question everything and not to trust what you're told on the surface something they don't really let happen these days. Well, our good pal Chris Knowles of Secret Sun fame not only co-wrote the complete X Files behind the series The Myths and the Movies back in 2008 but he's hot off the presses with a new deep dive into the show titled XF Ultra The X Files Conspiracy Culture in the National Security State which explores its cultural impact and these stranger than fiction real world stories that the show sometimes

02:25 pulled from or even inspired. So let's go, the X-Files obsessed deep diving synchromystic decoder and cultural scryer extraordinaire Chris welcome back. Oh it's so great to be back so great always great to be on THC in more ways than one. Yes, indeed and congrats on getting a new book out there so dense with details and an entire episode by episode exploration of such an iconic show covering all our favorite conspiratorial subject matter you co-wrote the complete guide eight years ago and it certainly seems like this is a more raw unsanctioned exploration that Disney or Fox wouldn't actually probably endorse

03:09 But I did hope we can mainly explore some of the real world stuff that's often was inspiration for the show, but let me just say getting ready for this thing. I looked up when the X-Files pilot aired and it was September 10th 1996 exactly 32 years to the day of the Charlie Kirk shooting an event peppered with Freemasonic symbolism And that right out of the gate is just a very odd sync than I'm still thinking about. I haven't revisited the themes of the pilot to see if there's even more alignment but just not alone is very weird It really is. I can't think of any parallels in the pilot itself, there are other episodes that you could probably look to but the pilot itself is basically straight up. The whole

03:57 Dialogue is about aliens, but you don't see any aliens really I think it's as I lay out in the book. I think that people are watching the series wrong And one of the reasons I wrote this book is to get people to watch the series correctly Okay, there's so much going on There's so many layers there's so much going on beneath the surface There are so many you know you talked about all those themes and such that we saw pre-saged in the X files, but there's a lot more than that. It's an incredible rabbit hole and I really wanted people to you know particularly people who want to get into it you know that's kind of what i was aiming towards which is why I have that very detailed

04:39 episode guide. But I want people, you know to understand what they're looking at You know a lot of things we see on television when just like oh you know whatever and it's so everything just sort Of goes through you know We're so bombarded with information all day I think a lot of people throughout the years since day one have kind of overlooked What is going on now? The interesting thing about Charlie Kirk's assassination is that I was actually going to publish on that day. I was having terrible troubles with a Kindle app, which is just the most ridiculous app in the world. So I wanted my original release date was that day and you know it's good to get it put on that day because they just would have been totally overshadowed

05:18 And to be honest with you, I was really kind of waiting to publish until all that sort of died down the news. We were going to talk about one other thing related to the Charlie Kirk assassination is you said that if we were going to touch on that because it is such a huge cultural event has nothing to do with the book except for this weird date sync but you said we could draw parallels with kind Kyle Odom and Kirk's assassination, I had to remind myself of that situation but via Wikipedia for context it says on March 6th 2016 Kyle Odom an individual fixated with alien conspiracy theories shot Pastor Tim Remington six times in the back

05:58 and once in the head at Alter Church, believing that Remington was hiding shape-shifting extraterrestrials within his congregation. Odom approached Remington in the parking lot of Alter Church and fired at him six times with a .45 caliber pistol in an apparent attempt on his life Despite plans to kill outreach pastor John Padula, Odom left the scene without any further incident. Remington survived and underwent several hours of surgery. Odom mailed a manifesto to his family and media outlets expressing his intent to murder Remington and is believed that he was part of an alien conspiracy to enslave humanity police found his vehicle at the scene of the crime after

06:37 successfully evading police, Odom boarded a flight to Washington DC and approached the White House at which point he began tossing items over the fence including flash drives and a 25 page manifesto addressed to then United States President Barack Obama. Odom was apprehended by United States Secret Service members at 8 27 p.m., though the arrest was related to his activity at the White House on the attempt of Remington's life. In July 2017, Odom pleaded guilty to aggravated battery with a felony firearm and was sentenced to 25 years in prison 10 of those years are fixed and after he will be eligible for parole so

07:19 Very interesting story. It does sound like the plot of an X-Files episode, but how is there any parallels really to the Charlie Kirk situation? Well I think the obvious one is like an attempt at assassination of a religious leader you know? Fair But there's also political connection there because Ted Cruz had spoken in Altar Church the day before so this That connection, you know Republican Party, religious right, Christianity. So many different layers that I was really thinking about and also the fact that he had like this just very strange motivation you know? He had this worldview where

07:56 shapeshifting Martians that were sexually obsessed, taking over people's bodies, possessing people. And I guess they were like the ghosts of Martians or something? And it's interesting because he drew a cartoon of one of the Martians in one of his manifestos and it looked eerily like like Keck or Pepe the Frog, you know what I'm saying? And you might want to pull that up for your visuals. Right. Taking a note right now. Yeah, yeah exactly and a lot of people on 4chan sort of pointed that out as well. That happened shortly after the season finale of Season 10 of The X-Files which was the so called event season and that episode was the one that a lot of people have been looking at is sort

08:37 prediction of COVID because it's all about this pandemic, this Spartan virus that's going to kill off everybody. But there's all this stuff... I mean Chris Krodt who has taken terrible abuse from the media because he's talking about like chemtrails being used to distribute an airborne virus and electricity, all these kind of things. And then also people like drawing sigils in certain areas that have already been infected I mean there's this whole thing this character that is partly very much based on Alex Jones. I think he's also partly based on Richard Dolan because a lot of his presentation was

09:18 paraphrasing Richard Dolan's speech at the Secret Space, I guess conference whatever in 2015. The one that Dark Journalist had hosted? The one in San Mateo just to let me throw this out there...I was there and that is when I met Tom DeLonge in the parking lot and I was so not expecting to meet Tom Delonge I was like hey uh You're one of the blink 182 guys. And I used to, I think I used a different name and he was like, no, I'm not other one. I was like, oh all right well interesting that you're here and then it was Mark Hoppus yeah. And that was way before. I just couldn't remember the names. I hadn't thought about blink in a long time. And that was before two, the stars or anything like that was happening just a weird little personal sync with what did become a big part of the disclosure movement that came from that same conference

10:06 I guess you didn't see it well maybe you wouldn't recognize him. He was there as a guest of Catherine Austin Fitz she had invited Chris Carter to come because he was working at the time on this mini series about Area 51 that i don't think was ever produced, never got on the air for sci-fi but he used a lot of the information that he had heard at the secret space conference, whatever it was called. A lot of that information was folded into those two revival seasons you know stuff with like Secret Space Program and off-worlding and all these kind of things so it's very much taken directly from that but anyway the point being is that this Kyle Odom thing happened like I think like a week afterwards but that thing where you know that plot line where

10:53 plot line. We can't even tell the difference anymore, right? Where he hops the White House fence and he's throwing his manifesto out that's directly I mean that's Directly from an episode of the X files called three words with this guy who's part of the sort of abductee cult hops to white house friends with his manifesto. To warn the president that people are being taken over by aliens so it's there several actually several different x files plot lines and i Spell them out in the book that like was Kyle Odom just like a really hardcore X-Files fan and then that kind of Inspired this whole thing, you know I mean obviously the thing with aliens possessing human bodies and so on That's like the whole thing with the black oil in The Super Soldiers and everything. So that was a really interesting timing I always really fixated on that story when that happened but

11:46 The fact that it's this kind of weird loner, the connections to religion and politics. It all did strike me as being not directly connected, but certainly thematically similar to the Charlie Kirk thing. I'm just glad you reminded me of it because it is such a wild story then we have so many random brain scrambled nuts out there with weapons that at some times hard to remember who did what but you throw in the alien stuff and the manifesto and you're really cooking here Well, the thing is what Kyle Odom said that I think is kind of a good point. Is that he shot this guy six times squaring the body mass with 45. That's a lot of punishment for human body to take. Odom had said see? That proves that he's an alien. How could have survived that?

12:39 But that's another plot line in the X-Files is that aliens can't be killed through just, you know... Aliens in human form can't be killed through simple gunshots. You have to either hit like a particular area of their body or use some sort of special weapon so that was really freaky and that was not the only time people sort of manifested themselves from X-Files stories onto quote unquote real world because we had Max Spears coughing up the black oil before he died, Gary McKinnon whose whole story you know the UFO hacker who broke into the Pentagon and found out all these files of offworld projects and off world missions. And that's straight from The X-Files too

13:25 the episode Anasazi. It seems that like reality such as it is sort of flits in and out but that's what happens you know this is the thing I've been telling you and I've been telling people for a long time, is that when you start playing with all these kind of themes and all these symbols and stuff like things happen you know um things happen that break that veil between our reality fictional reality or internal reality, that veil gets pierced and strange things start to happen. Yes and the Max Spears thing for people who don't remember him he was a UFO investigator I had to be reminded by reading the book but he spit up some black goo material And then he texted his mom if something happens to me investigate and that's all i really know

14:15 Well, he's somebody I'd followed. That was like the old days, like the Project Camelot days... The glory days! Yeah it kind of was the glory days you know this is when everybody had embedded video before everybody was just going to YouTube and so on that whole UFO counterculture that i would argue that Tom DeLonge killed because that whole culture was really heating up particularly in 2016 and then the following year he and Podesta come out with this whole to the stars and A-Tip and all this kind of, I mean you know my opinion on that stuff. But that to me, I think that killed the UFO conspiracy counterculture. And I don't think it ever recovered from there because that's the ultimate buzzkill right? The government admits it but its a really lame admittance. Right. Their admission right? Exactly! I tried to drill that into Stephen Bassett head and just wasn't working all that well

15:11 But you mentioned that people are maybe watching the X-Files wrong and you want them to watch it right. What is right? To you, what are they missing when they remember X-Files or revisit X-Files that you just wish that they would get? Well there were a lot of things but one of those things I wrote about in my Ultimate Fan Theory is how often stories about aliens and ancient astronauts and all the rest of it are twinned with episodes about mushrooms, LSD hallucinogenic drugs. Hallucinogenic drugs particularly mushrooms

15:50 are a constant through line throughout the entire series. You know, this is my theory right? And I'm sure the people writing these stories would either disagree and not admit that they agree right but if you really start to look at things like particularly like the black oil...I mean the black oil is basically a hallucinogenic drug that takes people over possesses them and turns them into basically alien demons But you see that throughout the entire series and the thing that really blew my mind, and I kind of felt like Chris Carter wrote this episode to me. In season 10 it was this episode called Babylon and it was all about taking mushrooms to go...you know, the descent into the underworld straight out of The Mystery Religions and they had Smoking Man playing

16:36 Chiron and I mean the whole thing was just everything that i've been talking about as far as like the connection between aliens and hallucinogenic drugs And all the rest of it that. I had picked up on throughout the entire season, I think most fans didn't because I don't think they have most fans had experience with hallucinations They wouldn't know what to look for But I mean, one of the... Here's my favorite example though that i think is almost like the argument in it. There was an episode they did called Field Trip right? Already from the title you get the inference there but it's about you know the Brown Mountain Lights in North Carolina so they go to investigate but then don't realize that this giant man-eating hallucinogenic mushroom

17:22 colony underground that like drugs people lures them in and then consumes them like digest them as they're having these trips the episode right after that was about these. quote-unquote alien tablets that a Dr. Sandos had discovered, you know? Sandos being the pharmaceutical company in Switzerland that had basically invented LSD in the first place! You know what I mean? So they... this is what I'm talking about with the twinning. They have this whole episode where basically Muller and Scullery are having this 45 minute long mushroom trip you know, that we see. That the aliens are coming and Mulder captures an alien and all these kind of things. And the next episode like Mulder is affected by these quote-unquote tablets that a Dr. Sandoz was in possession of so it's just like come on! You know what I mean? It's like when you do that back to back...and it's like that's really obvious but you'll see this throughout now Chris Carter was like a surfer

18:24 in the 70s, in California. I mean that dude probably dropped a lot of acid on this thing and here's an interesting thing as well is that...I think it was between the first and second seasons no I'm sorry the second third season he had gone to Sedona at the invitation of some Navajo and took place uh took part in a peyote ritual you know, and he was very upfront about it. He didn't try to disguise it and then that was written into the third season opener this whole thing they didn't have the mushrooms or the peyote buttons explicitly in that episode but that's clearly what its riffing on That's the first thing you really have to notice is that first of all

19:09 it's never really clear if there actually are aliens. You know what I mean? If we see aliens from time to time, but not as much as you might think, but we're never really sure if this is the unreliable narrator. What we do see explicitly is mushrooms LSD, coyotes you know, I mean all this kind of stuff. So I said in the book and I've always said that I think this series is about hallucinogens just as much as it's about conspiracies or anthems. Yeah it's interesting to make that connection because obviously disclosure and this traditional ETH narrative is so aggressive

19:50 within the community like forced on it. But yet, you know we see these other layers like maybe they aren't from space maybe they're just from a different dimension maybe that's the same psychedelics are the same type of trigger to facilitate an experience and then yeah A lot of people when they think back to the X-Files, they just think of it as a UFO traditional alien show. And you're saying no actually a lot of this stuff is peppered in there and I think to me that is interesting having grown up in the nineties having seen this in The Zeitgeist even though I was young and watched it later when it was maybe a little past its prime It's just so interesting to me that a show like this would be the primetime thing The water cooler talk the next day. I am nostalgic for the glue

20:33 of those kind of cultural shows where now it's like you have to ask someone, are you watching this or this? Or this because who knows what people are watching. There's nothing connecting us not since maybe game of Thrones So I like that idea. And then also just the trust level of people, I don't know if they put a show like this on the air because the internet was so new that you couldn't look this stuff up and then make these connections but if a show like this was on the air today, I don't know if we would be sucked into that government trust that everybody has that really made COVID possible. Like it seems like the people in the nineties were way more willing to be like yeah, the government probably is involved in some shit like this

21:13 Well, you got to realize that this is following on Iran-Contra. You know all these things like Ruby Ridge and Waco. Waco was about six months before The X Files premiered there was a lot of...you know the rise of the militia movement George Bush's speech about the New World Order, you know the Gulf War, Gulf Wars sickness which The X Files referenced several times, you know talked about Gulf War illness. So I think that there was it was in the air and they were also like UFO's and Abduction and all these kind of things were very much very very much in the culture particularly following Whitley Strieber's communion I mean people don't remember that that was a bestseller I was working in New York when that book came out and you could not pass up

22:01 Barnes & Noble or B. Dalton or Walden books, all these chains that most of them don't exist anymore but you couldn't pass a bookstore without seeing a big display with several copies of Communion in the window That book was huge He did all the sequels and then there are all these people who sort of try to steal his thunder but this was also following on the whole thing with Bob Lazar and Area 51. Again, tons of references to Area 51 and all the rest of it reverse engineering from the very earliest episodes in The X-Files so they're really picking up on the zeitgeist So there was this kind of I don't want to say skepticism or distrust or whatever but there was definitely a lot of this kind of stuff in air

22:48 conspiracies, and this is a couple years after Behold A Paled Horse was released. You had books like Holy Blood Holy Grail there was so much of this kind of stuff in the mainstream and this is hot on the heels of Graham Hancock and Fingerprints Of The Gods all the stuff with alternative history, alternative archaeology but also the ancient astronaut stuff became really big again when like all of a sudden Sitchin, Zachariah Sitchin's in everywhere you look. And there was also a show that was on just before the X-Files premiered. It was a show called Sightings and it's sort of like paranormal news show, and it was hosted by a guy named Timothy White who is a retired Air Force general. There's a lot of this stuff in the air there were UFO conventions I mean UFO conventions were big thing in the 90s and actually that guy George Knapp actually did a documentary on how big UFO conventions were. I mean there was like one somewhere in the United States every weekend back then

23:47 So this was all very much in the air. Yeah, and you mentioned Gary McKinnon and that plot line for an episode Anasazi season two episode 25 actually had notes about this episode of all the ones but The Plotline is a hacker breaks into Pentagon files revealing the truth about UFO's The files are encrypted in Navajo leading Mulder & Scully to New Mexico And that, you know as a tie-in with Chris Carter Navajo peyote ritual. But while we're talking about ufology a little bit, obviously there was a lot happening at the time but one thing that I keep coming back to another really the reason i had Stephen Bassett on is this photograph it's also mentioned in the book at least the conferences but this photograph of the Lawrence Rockefeller retreat

24:37 that has all the big names in ufology there, Linda Moulton Howell, Stephen Greer even Bob Bigelow. Like I don't know, I just think multi-billionaires and hundred millionaires got better things to do than hang out with Stephen Greer when I keep bringing this photo up i've shown it to you know Richard Dolan and Steven Bassett neither one of them has the same visceral kind of skepticism about what this is as I do. And when you put it in the context of the X-Files, this was September 14th and 15th of 1993, the very weekend after they launched The X-Files pilot on primetime TV. The damn show comes out September 10th and then the following weekend Linda Moulton Howell, Steven Greer Bob Bigelow about a dozen other people are meeting at Lawrence Rockefeller's ranch? I don't know. What do you think that this

25:30 What does this mean to you? Is this the seating of the op, is this the meetings of the minds to structure how they're going to control and frame high strangeness for the next decade and a half. That could be part of it but Remember who Lawrence Rockefeller was. I mean, Lawrence Rockefeller gave the seed money for Esalen. He gave the seed money for the New Education Sciences Institute. He gave the seed money for the California Institute of Integral Studies. He was basically building sort of a new age empire at that time He was funding a lot of ufology. He was funding people like Roger Lear, I believe? A lot of big-name ufologists were actually getting on his payroll and that's something that people don't remember This is the thing we discussed when we talked about he will love up in the sky I think one big mistake that a lot of call it maybe I shouldn't use the term but sort of amateur conspiracist

26:30 Make is that they make the mistakes that these people involved in this stuff can't be true believers They can't actually believe in this stuff. That is mistake number one You have to realize that people who get into this stuff believe it and I think Lawrence Rockefeller was Involved in this because he was trying to build It was part of his New Age religion Empire, I think that's more like it but I think he I think he was big believer in it. You know, he gave there's that famous photo where he's walking with Hillary Clinton and she's carrying like a some sort of UFO book that he gave her I think he was genuinely into it to be honest with you and I think that Greer has talked about this. I mean Greer talked about how Rockefeller was a true believer in this phenomenon

27:16 Yeah, I don't doubt that. And it's a current that goes through all of our interviews like they definitely believe something but it is not always presented to us in the same context as what they actually believe so basics of it 101 is that they are trying to promote occultism which you can just come right out and promote But you can do a bunch of university studies on psychedelics. You can seed the culture with UFOs and space aliens because it just doesn't have the same religious residue, even though it really probably is a more religious type of thing." I don't know if we talked about this but UFOlogy has always been a top-down

27:57 Ufology, as we know it was basically the creation of a bunch of Navy admirals back in the late 40s. Yeah! One with your name? Yes yes so but if you also look at NICAP which was like THE big UFO investigation project for a number of years, the board of directors were all retired military mostly from the Navy or Marines. This is something that was kind of an aha moment and I have their article somewhere but somebody's in some it was in some left-wing magazine might've been Mother Jones of The Nation or something

28:35 who was writing about how the whole UFO thing was really the creation of these admirals and they've been sustaining it. And if you look at what's going on today with this whole disclosure movement, I mean look at people like Grush and Fravor and Elizondo and Semivan and Mellon...I mean these are all very high placed people in the military industrial complex establishment, all of them And that is kind of why I don't really pay too much attention to it because, you know what is their agenda? So there's always been an agenda and there still remains an agenda to create a UFO religion. I think that absolutely is probably what Rockefeller wanted to really do. I don't think he was running it off but I think he was trying to start a religion to be honest with you.

29:26 Fair. So let me read to you a random post I found on Reddit from a guy who goes by Jesse James, he says X-Files is a favorite show of mine of all time. I think someone high up allowed the X-Files to be released if you look at the evidence in the way the average person thought about UFOs slash government conspiracy when the show aired as compared to now it's 180 degrees different who was talking about project paper clip and had a behind the curtain look at the show, and someone definitely wanted the show to stay on air. The ratings were pretty bad in the first two seasons but this show was never cancelled. There's way too much I could write here but i'll point you towards Bruce Rux's Hollywood vs The Aliens it's all about slowly bringing the public along not scaring them out of hell along the way we've come a long from Little Green Men and Flying Saucers

30:29 So I like that. It's nice to see you penetrating the zeitgeist like that, to see a Chris Knowles reference in the wild unexpectedly but would you agree with that comment? Did this show seem to be engineered to reveal with help staying on the air despite low ratings early on You have to remember at that time Fox was still a fairly new network they didn't really have a lot to put on the air they weren't even airing a full week of programming at that time. The X-Files was just basically like a sacrificial lamb at the time because they thought the big show is going to be the show called The Adventures of Briscoe County Jr starring Bruce Campbell, so the whole idea was like that was going to be the draw, that was gonna be the big hit, that was gonna be the show that brought people in and X-Files was just basically gonna be there to set it up you know it's sort of like the support band at a concert like they were just basically going to be the opening act for this Briscoe County

31:27 Now, Briscoe County just died on the vine. I think what really saved The X-Files was they realized because of the rise of the internet it was all still dial up back then but they realized that the show is appealing to what they call the demographic and the demographic being like 18 to 49 people with a lot of disposable income at least they did back then But as far as UFOs go, I mean most of the episodes in the entire series but particularly those first seasons were not about UFOs. I think there might have been like six out of 25 episodes in the first season were about UFOs It was more like horror and sci-fi because what they call the monsters of a week were much more than the meat and potatoes of the show

32:18 Yeah, because Chris Carter was really inspired by Kolchak the Night Stalker which is way before your time. It was a show that I watched when i was very very young when I could get aware of it because my parents didn't let me watch it but um...I don't know particularly if it would have been part of Agenda because also depicting aliens as being rather sinister and hostile. I mean it wasn't part of this agenda that you saw in films like E.T., Close Encounters, Taken a lot of movies there was a lot of other movies in the 80s that Aliens were our friends and they were just basically these cute little visitors and so on. I mean, there's a lot of pedo nonsense under current flowing through all those kind of stories but from the very very start from the pilot episode aliens are bad. The people who corroborate or collaborate with the aliens are bad They're evil you know? They're demons! They're here to harm us

33:18 They're doing experiments on us. I mean, this is not the kind of message that somebody like Lawrence Rockefeller would necessarily want to let slip and one thing that i would also remind you in the midst of all this UFO hysteria or whatever you want to call it in the 90s, you started people like Bill Cooper started to come around. He had been putting out the most ridiculous UFO nonsense out there but he started to wake up. Carl Turner who had written a couple of books on UFO abduction was starting to think that we're really looking at my labs. Jim Keith did so as well in Saucers Of The Illuminati

33:57 And what do those three people have in common, Greg? They're... no. What? They're all dead! Well I was gonna say that but I wasn't sure about the- I know Jim Keith obviously and Bill Cooper In the expanded hardcover I basically list a lot of these people who were involved in ufology who came to unnatural early ends Yeah Which is also very curious to me. And this is something that I've paid attention to for a long time, and you know we talked about Max Spears right? It's it's a very complicated issue and i think it tends to get simplified by people who maybe have some other agenda but um

34:33 Again, when you look at those stories it's very difficult to argue that the X-Files was part of some agenda to acclimate people to aliens and alien religion. You know? Some sort of childhoods end scenario where the aliens are our friends but we have to...you know they look like devils so we have to wait 50 years until until they reveal themselves. I read that recently, it holds up and uh... It's basically a recommendation of yours Well yeah obviously the tone is different and the orientation you know the good bad orientation of The Beans in The Show is different but if you're trying to say that they're trying to take high strangeness things in general which are more of a multi-dimensional phenomenon and casted out into space in people's minds

35:21 I guess it could kind of fit, but I hear what you're saying. So we have talked about Stranger Things before and how that first season reveals so much about MKUltra You could say that like they're giving you what really was going on with MKUltra and MKOften And then they're saying But it wasn't so bad for her because she got superpowers and now she's great when really It is torture of a child We talked about how it seems like the Duffer brothers likely had some assistance in writing out those details because it maybe was a limited hangout or for some reason, somebody wanted to popularize the MKUltra program. Do you see anything like that happening? I mean, cause as you say this show is about much more than just aliens there's the syndicate there's the bio labs was there someone

36:10 Connected kind of helping with the show because you do have some quotes where I guess in one of the DVD commentaries, someone says that FBI agents had told them that it wasn't all that far off things on this show. Aren't all that far off from the truth and that CIA agents would go to parties in Hollywood and give Chris Carter ideas. So, I mean, we're talking about exactly what I'm saying Well, my theory on Stranger Things is that I don't think it's the same thing with the X-Files. People had very low expectations and this whole idea that you know the Illuminati are micromanaging everything that goes in the air just doesn't really hold water. I think that Stranger Things was sort of a dark horse right? They weren't expecting it and I don't think what

37:00 When you watch the advertisements or the previews, before it came on all the MKUltra stuff wasn't really referenced. It was more about like this sort of Spielbergian 80's fantasy movie with kids and so on I think what happened with Stranger Things is that after that first season aired some people approached those guys and said alright listen This isn't going to fly. We're not doing this anymore." You know what I mean? It's like, you're not... No, this is a little too much and that's why the very next season all of a sudden you had the Paul Reiser character who was like the nice MKUltra guy. Right. They spun it off in a weird direction from where it started. It's amazing to me when I rewatched the first season which I do periodic basis let's just say

37:51 how different it is and how much heavier it is, and how more similar it is to a lot of early 80s movies from 1983 that seemed to be telling tales out of school. I'm thinking of Wavelength and Brainstorm and maybe even War Games. There were a number of movies that took a very jaundiced look at the military establishment, military intelligence, military industrial all these different various power structures That you didn't see by the end of the 80s. It was something it wasn't cool and it might have almost been like a leftover from the 70s because you saw a lot of films in the 70s that were very conspiratorial that were very skeptical of state power and so on,

38:37 evaporates by the end of the 70s. I'm sorry, the end of the 80's By and large The X-Files is really a show about monsters and the paranormal People think it as UFO show but as i said The UFO episodes are very much the minority in every single season. Every single season! I guess you could maybe argue in Season 10, that sixth little mini-series... That you have three of the episodes that are oriented towards UFOs and stuff so maybe that's a little different But, you know the full seasons and a lot of fans don't like those. You know what they call the mythology then then? They find those stories too hard to follow and I was the same way back when the show was on the air When these what I called them conspiracy episodes i'd be just like oh let me get out my charts And graphs in my flow chart and see who's this guy What's going on here it's got to be homework

39:33 It just was too much to follow. And it wasn't until I started watching those episodes in order, without all the stories about werewolves and vampires and all the rest of it that I was like oh my god this is incredible. This is like...it's this incredible novel that just spreads out over the seasons. There are two things that I want to address here. You can watch that show, the entire series, and think there are no actual aliens Because there are all these references throughout the show that this is all being staged, this is all a hoax. This is some sort of psy-op and that the aliens when we see them it's like we get these little fleeting glimpses so you know are they seeing something because they expect to be seeing something? You know we do see UFOs but from the very

40:19 first actual episode past the pilot that the government is making UFOs, you know what I'm saying? You know an Air Force base based on Area 51. So you can watch that series and think well all this stuff about aliens isn't really about aliens it's really about the government experimenting on human beings, you know, psychologically with drugs with technology and all the rest of it. Yes actually that's a great point I actually wanted to talk about the unethical human experimentation examples you have in the book but i wanted to throw this out while we're kind of equating stranger things and

40:58 X-Files and real reveals. So most people listening will know about the Lone Gunman 911 sync, so that Lone Gunman was a spinoff that came on after X-Files had wrapped and I'm going to play it in the final version of this real quick. It's only a couple minutes. This is the pilot episode of The X-Files spinoff. It aired six months before 911. What the hell are you doing? Why can't just stay out of this leave me buried What is Scenario 12-D? We know it's a war game scenario, that it has to do with airline counterterrorism. Why is that important enough to kill for? Because it's no longer a game! If some terrorist group wants to act out this scenario why target you for assassination? Depends on who your terrorists are... The men who conceived of it in the first place

41:59 You're saying our government plans to commit a terrorist act against... There you go. Indicting the entire government, as usual! It's a faction. A small faction. For what possible gain? The Cold War is over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile against, the arms market is flat. Bring down a fully loaded 727 into New York City and you'll find a dozen tin-pot dictators all over the world just clamoring to take responsibility and begging to be smart-bombed. I can't believe it! This is about increasing arms sales? When? Tonight How are you going to stop them? Why didn't you tell the world this, go to the press?! You think i'd still be drawing breath 30 minutes after I made that call? The press!? Who's gonna run this story? We would This birdcage liner wild eyed crap right up there with Elvis as an alien and two headed babies Obviously read it Don't be so damn naive

43:03 You think this is gonna save the world? I'm doing what I can, John. And I don't have all the specifics on Scenario 12-D... but I think I know the flight they've chosen. You stay out of it! I don't want overload gunning for you two. Find anything? The luggage holds clear if this thing can be trusted. What'd you do, make it with your erector set? Are you absolutely sure that this is the targeted flight? This flight was chosen primarily for its visibility. It's scheduled to pass over Manhattan on its way to Boston. You said they intend to bring us down in the middle of New York City?

43:48 What if there is no bomb? How are they gonna bring it down? The same way a dead man can drive a car. What do you mean, no bomb?! Langley... I need to hack into the aircraft's onboard navigation system. We need to know where we're going. Go into headsets! I'll clone the airphone carrier and make them think we're sending a ground-air fax. That's one twisted Star 69. Just get ready to ride the wave, hippie boys. Get me on that plane and I'll get autopilot access. How will you do that? Airline telemetry systems use processors similar to those found in CB radios

44:26 I'm in. We got ourselves a convoy. What's your progress? I've hacked into the flight control system output. With that little bit of help... It's what the brains of the plane is telling The Little Black Box. Course, heading, attitude hold, yaw axis stabilization... What the heck is that ? Is that what it looks like ? I think it IS what it looks like ! But this WHAT looks like ? Modem protocols. Remote access. Somebody on the ground's flying your plane. Bogey sir. Keep your course and move to our flight plan. I'm mapping the data now!

45:20 Fires. Your flight's gonna make an unscheduled stop in exactly 22 minutes. The corner of Liberty and Washington, lower Manhattan. World Trade Center... I'm going to crash the plane into the World Trade Center. All right try cutting electrical power. I've thought of that. I've thought of everything. Ladies and gentlemen this is your captain speaking we're experiencing some technical difficulties up here at this time we'd like you all to return your seats. Then kiss your asses goodbye

46:05 We're getting close. I know, I know New York Center this is a lack national flight to six five heavy we are declaring an emergency We have 110 souls on board 16,000 pounds of fuel that is so wild and it is interesting that Remote-controlled is even mentioned which Is what? A lot of people seem to think about the real event if there were any planes at all as they're saying now but they even say in their It's not the government. It's a cabal of people with the secret agenda using the government." There are just so many little layers to what is said in that dialogue, as you know that it's like wow! What a hit? I don't know if there are other things you can think of from The Main Show X-Files that have that kind of foreshadowing potency to real events—I'm sure there're a couple but

47:00 You did have something to say about that lone gunman clip and how you think it emerged to have been possible, to have been in the show and aired so soon before the real event. Yeah I um one of the problems that i have with people who make opinions about that is that they've never actually watched the episode And if you actually watch the episode, this is all being staged. It's this program called Overlord by this cabal within the government basically the neocons pretty much and to start wars and ramp up arms sales which is exactly what happened following 9-11 isn't it? Now if this was all some sort of predictive programming or whatever that wouldn't fly

47:45 They wouldn't let that go. You know what I mean? The government, the CIA... We know for a fact—I mean this has been documented over and over again—that the military and the CIA were all up in Hollywood's grill for years and just basically dictating terms, you know just basically say if you don't write the stories that we want you to write. You're not going to get any of our cooperation and our money and so on and so forth exactly So that is not a story when you actually watch the actual episode That's not a story that anyone in the government or the Pentagon, or whomever. Anybody in a position of authority it could well be somebody was feeding them information and saying you know something's coming something's going to happen and we want this out there

48:31 so people can reference back to it, you know what I mean? And maybe wake up. You know what I'm saying? That's just a theory on my part. It jibes with all the things that have just fallen down the memory hole that people like Bill Cooper was warning that something of this scale was going to happen and it was going to be blamed on Bin Laden well before it happened. There are all these kind of stories that summer of warnings that there were some sort of plot to fly planes into skyscrapers and so on. I mean, this was all being talked about in the media well before 9-11 and it all just got flushed down the memory hole but as I detail in the book they were plots to fly airplanes into buildings

49:21 Going back to the 70s. This was something that was always in the air and I think it kind of started when a, I think it was a B-29 flew into the Empire State Building. And I think in 45 like somewhere in the 40s there was a heavy fog and this plane just like crashed into the to the Empire State Building yet. It's still there? Yeah well this is all these yeah well exactly yeah exactly. I mean you know my thoughts on 9 11 what that was really about but that's too much to go into here right but III think I think a much more sensible theory that, I think is better supported by the facts and evidence is that if it wasn't just some weird coincidence which things do happen. You know, I talked about Jack Kirby through our story about somebody

50:13 flying a jet that was loaded with like nuclear devices into her skyscraper, you know. That was in 1984 but you know Kirby also did like the face on Mars in 1957. You know Kirby was just like on a different level if it wasn't just like some weird fluke which I have trouble believing it was...I think that because there were so many people who had dissented from that whole neocon, Gulf War II agenda and so on. Since Carter did have these connections with people like in the FDI mostly in the FBI as far as what I've heard What better way to sort of at least put your marker down than a very high profile show airing on you know Sunday night after The Simpsons and so on

51:03 I mean, that is a speculation on my part. But I think that a lot of the theories that people espouse about that episode they just don't hold water because it's so clear that the peoples you know espousing these theories never actually watch the episode Fair enough. I mean, with 13 seasons and a couple of movies and all the conspiracy tropes peppered throughout The X-Files are there any similar scenes that stand out as predating a real event that is like a pretty big nail on the head like that one was? I don't know that you know... That's hard to beat It is!

51:45 You can't really overshadow that one. There are a lot of episodes with storylines that we've kind of taken for granted these days, just for an example there's an episode called Heronvoke which is how the smallpox vaccination was used to collect genetic information that was being used to tag and catalog us. And that's something that we've heard talked about all the storylines with vaccination and engineered plagues go back way back in the series, at least of the second season if not before by inference they did an episode on

52:30 called Red Museum where cattle were being injected with alien DNA. So this whole idea that our food supplies are being used for delivery, for genetic experimentation which I think Bill Gates was talking about a couple weeks ago? Yeah yeah right you know what i'm saying You know I mentioned Deep Throat where UFOs are being used as cover for experimental aircraft right there's an episode called the Pine Glove variant where far-right militias are all under government control and used for, you know, for terror purposes. And in this particular case it's to test this really horrific toxin biological warfare kind of thing. My struggle too I think you might have mentioned this whether the pandemic is being used as a cover for genetic

53:15 manipulation via CRISPR-Cas9. I mean, who knew about CRISPR-Cas9 in 2016? Right! Exactly Those are just some of the ones that come to my mind off the top of my head Oh this is a really big one because in the expanded hardcover version I did a chapter on Edward Snowden Well, they were doing exactly what Snowden was talking about several years before he came out of the woodwork. It was an episode called Trust No One which is all about like specifically about the NSA doing big basically collecting surveillance on everyone. And who knew about that? Who was talking about the NSA and broad spectrum surveillance in 2002, right? Not many it's funny because like after 9 11 it's like some it almost seemed like the story has got more extreme because you had a lot of storylines that were much more confrontational I guess you would say and trust no one is a perfect example

54:15 But that was like really gutsy when they're talking about the Patriot Act to do an entire storyline about the NSA just basically hoovering up all our data everywhere and having everyone under surveillance. Who was talking about that? Absolutely. Yeah, that is a big one. Okay so before this interview ends I did want to at least touch on Anne Heche because you did a really great deep dive on this and then you did a presentation on tinfoil hats two and half hours anybody who's interested in really the long form of this should really check out that tinfoil hat interview but

54:54 But that footage of Anne Heche being put in the ambulance, rising up after her fiery car crash. It definitely disturbed me and I will play it as we're talking about it but I didn't really know much about Anne Heche except I've heard the name a couple of times and I don't know why I didn't look more into it but it just seemed like one weird event in a continuum of weird events. It's probably more relevant with some of these facts. So if people don't know, she did date Ellen from 1997 to 2000 being in the first openly lesbian couple in Hollywood. The premise of the overall material that you did I would say is that she probably knew a little bit too much about the dark network of Hollywood

55:40 Ellen, of course wears that white bloody face hoodie along with Diddy. Why did he and Ellen are wearing any similar wardrobe? I don't understand. Don't forget the set that looks like a Jeffrey Epstein's temple. Absolutely we'll throw that up there if people haven't seen Ellen set it does look quite a bit like that strange temple. Diddy was also on the show sometimes which was weird but Diddy was formally charged in In 2024, the year Ellen moved to the UK and funny rumors seem to be that Tom Hanks moved to Greece in 2024 too. I hear he bounces back and forth but that's another person associated with the bloody face image via the Wilson castaway volleyball anyway in 2001 Anne

56:25 published a memoir titled Call Me Crazy in which she alleged extensive sexual abuse by her father. Seems like she wanted to talk about such things Also, the film she had just completed before her death is The Girl In Room 13 Apparently it sucks but this is the plot Grace becomes addicted to opioids after suffering a sports injury. She's ready to leave her addiction behind under her mother's watch, but her past won't let her go. Richie kidnaps her in a motel room to sell her into human trafficking. Probably would have been hell of a press tour if Anne Heche was around to have it! crash in 2022 the same year. Ellen's DJ Twitch was found in a hotel room dead of suicide autopsy report showed no drugs or alcohol on his system and the wife filed a missing persons report the day before family says he was in no way depressed

57:16 Sketchy. The ring camera footage of the crash looks like she couldn't stop, maybe the brakes were cut They didn't get her out of the fiery car for over 49 minutes which you've said is a detail to pay attention too You wrote that this is one of the most unsettling cases you've ever investigated and I have a feeling there's a lot more disturbing on the bone. There is something seriously wrong with what's going on here, you say? So I just kind of want to ask you to give us the brief overview but I do think when you add up all these facts it does seem like a cleanup of people who might have known about the dark stuff at the Diddy parties or the Frazzle Drip video or something but

57:58 Two people around Ellen who know her intimately, dead in the same year and then she leaves the country. Ellen was tied in with a lot of people. Well first of all, Ellen... Her first girlfriend in 1980 died in a car crash as well. Apparently this woman was tied up with- This is in New Orleans she's tied up with organized crime and so on. Three years later Anne Heche's brother dies in a car crash And Inge later said that she thought it was suicide. Her father died of AIDS that same year, and that's like really early. That's two years before the whole Rock Hudson thing hit the news and so on. You talked about the whole frazzle drift thing... We both have seen something!

58:42 Actually, the thing I saw was a little bit nebulous. You know? I'm not exactly sure what I was looking at but another person you didn't mention was Justin Roiland of Rick and Morty fame because he started off doing this cartoon that was basically this weird pedophile monster who liked to basically frazzle-drip kids like just rip their faces off Yep, I found that too. A lot of people might not remember that a couple years ago, a few years ago before he was canceled basically He did an ad for Pringles where he basically they redid the frazzle grip thing but when they tore the face off there was like an android face underneath it It was Morty's face underneath it or is it Rick? I don't remember

59:30 I heard you say that and i couldn't find that one. I saw a Wendy's commercial he made Yeah, I think they might have memory hold it because people might have said what are you doing here? This is really sick and weird Right You revealed it on the Superbowl basically And then you got hit with this sex scandal and your career was ruined Funny how that worked out In he was as you said with with Ellen and there's been a lot of talk that maybe Ellen was involved. And I don't really believe that, I think it's very possible if not likely that in H was killed to send the message to Ellen because Ellen, don't forget her show had been canceled just a few weeks before Anne Hinge dies in that accident. Was she planning on talking? She had nothing to lose! You know she basically said that they destroyed her career and if you look at the way that all played out it was so clearly orchestrated it was so clearly one of these operations that was run out of these big agencies in Hollywood when they want to get rid of people people who are basically not producing what as far as income what they need them produce

1:00:34 And that's why we had Me Too and all the rest of it. Look at the people who were taken up by Me Too, is people who had once made a lot of money for a lot of people and then lost a lot of money for a lot of people Harvey Weinstein being a classic example like I made a lot of money in the 90s Then he starts The Weinstein Company and I don't think any of those films that they released made any money So how do you get rid of them? Because, you know, here's a guy who has got a lot of dirt on a lot of people. You know everybody is in each other business so my working theory

1:01:11 is that because the Diddy thing was heating up behind the scenes, you know as you mentioned, uh, wasn't in Destiny I think. What would... no who was her name? The woman who brought the charges? Cassie! Okay Cassie so that's really what opens up the whole floodgates um but That story was boiling under for several years, for at least five years before that. Because I mentioned how Cat Williams had been talking about Diddy and the white parties and all this stuff for ages... For ages! And there's always been talk that Diddy might have had Tupac killed and all these kind of things. Luckily for Diddy they put in James Comey's daughter to prosecute their case and she just totally mishandled

1:01:55 everything and right all these people who I think would have been exposed by whatever tapes Whatever evidence did he might have been collecting to blackmail them which we now know that he was doing It was going to create a lot of problems for a lot of people And I think it was going to end up going very high up. One of the people that Diddy was associated with was Clive Davis, and if you don't know that name, that dude is basically one of the emperors in the music industry. He started Arista Records and had a a ton of major artists, Whitney Houston being one of them who's now also no longer with us. Things got very dark and bad at some point in the music industry and maybe like the money evaporating because of Napster and downloading it maybe that had something to do with it I don't know. I think there were a lot of people concerned and again this is just a working theory that because Ellen was so tight with Diddy she knew a lot of things he knew but you can't kill Ellen

1:02:54 Why? Because she's too high profile. And I'm sure she probably had dead man switches and things filed away. I'm sure once you get into, you get into a certain level they all kind of tell each other, Hey if you see this now, I'm going to show you something here now and we're gonna have to put your name on the thumb drive that we got back there in the safe so that people know that you have this too. There probably is like that conversation like if you go past this threshold then, you know, you need insurance. I think that's exactly correct. You recently had John McAfee's widow on... Yeah!

1:03:31 And, you know we know all about those stories with dead man switches and so on. So I think killing Ellen would be extremely problematic People don't remember that she was also in a car accident She had t-boned somebody at an intersection And maybe that was an attempt? I don't know When you look at the timeline and you look at some of the evidence Ann had gone into a boutique or some sort of salon or something and bought a wig You know, the guy who owned the salon said she was perfectly normal. Perfectly happy didn't seem stressed or anything like that didn't seem like she was high or drunk and it just seemed like just

1:04:10 very happy and normal. And then all of a sudden she's cruising down, you know, a side street in Santa Monica at 100 miles an hour I think that's...I think her car was commandeered by remote control. I think when she had that little accident when she hit some garage in some crappy apartment building and then drove off. I think she was starting to panic, and then she almost hits a woman, and I think she gets into another thing. I think that she had lost control of her vehicle, and she didn't know what was going on but by the time she's barreling down that street at 100 miles per hour you hear this screeching sound which to me sounds like she is trying to engage her parking brake which as you know if your going 100 miles an hour it isn't gonna do shit right? Right! I think that she knew by then

1:04:58 That's two episodes of Seinfeld. You know, particularly since the fire department was already on the scene fairly quickly. But somehow there were no paramedics there. There was just one of these kind of fire ambulances but there was no paramedic team. There's just a couple of firefighters who basically tossed her into the back of this truck. The way she was strapped in you know they said that she had like a neck injury or something well then why did they put basically seat belts across her neck? They said that she

1:05:41 having oxygen-starved brain, well why wasn't she unconscious? They said that she was severely burnt. She had severe injuries but if you look at the autopsy reports... She basically had patches of secondary burn. She was very very lucky despite the fact that they let her sit in their car for 49 minutes She only had fairly small areas of burn. And they were second degree burns, they weren't even like third degree burns. None of it adds up at one point they say she's doing fine and Thomas Jane who was her ex-boyfriend comes and said oh you know she's gonna make it and she's going to recover and she's in stable condition then all the sudden we hear that they're getting ready to carve organs out

1:06:21 The whole situation is just very weird. But the thing that I was looking at was like the ritual dates because it took place in basically an ancient festival to Hecate, who is like a witch goddess And Anne, I'm sorry Ellen came out on April 30th. That program was called the Puppy Show of all things you know because there's all these serious tie-ins again Sirius and Flame and so on you know The Burning Star and everything that episode where Ellen came out in 1997 again aired on Well Purgus Night which is basically the Witches Sabbath in Europe

1:06:57 and is very popular among people who practice what's called dyanic witchcraft, you know in particular. You know Hesh is actually a derivative of Hekt So you have that same kind of consonant sound between hecht and hecka tay. And then I connected it to, did we talk about the situation at the Super Bowl? Right? Remind me super bowl back in 2015 when that woman was just basically incinerated like she lost control of her car and it drove straight into the train tracks didn't We talked about this so we could do a whole show on this It was one of the most horrific things You'll ever see

1:07:36 It was after the, it was after Super Bowl 49. So there's the 49 again um The woman who is basically incinerated alive was 49 years old she's hit by a train that's going 49 miles an hour so there's all that symbolism there and that ties to Libra 49 which is Babylon in like Jack Parsons version of Thelma. So there are all these connections with witchcraft, but also that day that woman was basically incinerated her name was Ellen by the way. Her name was Ellen Brody now what's the significance of that? Ellen Brody was the name of the wife

1:08:12 Roy Scheider character in Jaws. If you remember that Super Bowl, Katy Perry's dancing with the Sharks for some bizarre reason and before the Super Bowl she says jaws will drop and faces will melt. You know she didn't I'm sure she was told to say that yeah of course or you know what i'm saying so this is it takes place at in Valhalla New York another hot topic right now yeah exactly right with Charlie Kirk and uh pretty much right on the Hudson River. Katy Perry's real name is Katy Hudson, and that's when she came in to the song Roar and she's basically doing the Whore of Babylon. She's riding on this giant golden idol of a lion with these ruby red eyes but she's also wearing a flame dress you know her dress is all flames and she sang firework And again Ellen means did we mention that Ellen means torch?

1:09:06 No, I don't think so. Is derived from the Greek word for torch? I just want to fold in a couple other things about this. So if we are kind of taking the premise that it seems like around 2022 there was a cleanup maybe of people who could be called to trial something like that you know they're getting rid of people getting rid of Twitch getting rid of Anne Heche Well, this is also the timeline of Obama's chef drowning in 2023. And you noted in that interview with Sam that Bill Clinton had a chef drown in 2015 so obviously a little off the timeline but why did two presidents

1:09:47 have chefs who drowned mysteriously. Maybe they could've been called to talk about things they were asked to prepare! Or maybe it was just like a Buckley kind of ritual too, you know? Well yeah possibly and then the other big thing... The twinning aspect so and a car hits a bungalow by the beach is small little bungalow we know these things in you say that you think that the woman who live there was supposed to die she looks a lot like an hey show decide by side in that interview so what are the chances that a person who lives in the house you hit looks a lot like you She also had the two dogs and you know that connects to Hecate and to Sirius. There you go, so this woman didn't die And you say that another woman four days later was found hanging from a tree on fire in Griffith Park? And it was said to be a suicide she was also a victim of sex trafficking Vanessa Garcia So if you're doing a ritual

1:10:45 And you're trying to take this woman and give her a fiery death because that's the ritual. And you hit this woman, and it doesn't go right. You find another woman! And you light her on fire and hang her from a tree... works, basically completes the ritual there. Yeah that's how people commit suicide they set themselves on fire and then they hang themselves or they hang themselves and they set themselves on fire I'm not exactly sure what... yeah what is the order? The other thing too is that the cops didn't investigate and say it was suicide the cops said right away that it was suicide They just flat out said that it was suicide And it wasn't like they said oh we have you know surveillance video of her coming in alone with a can of gas

1:11:28 They just said it was suicide. This is why I'm so glad you're out of California and i just always tell people particularly if they're in Los Angeles to get the hell out of Los Angeles because I just think it's become total dominion of demons, to be honest with you but that story was absolutely nuts but there are all these ritual dates with the dog days and so on and also this connection to the Hecate and Ides which is this festival to Hecate who is known for the two dogs and the torch. So you ask about that woman who's not only basically a human torch, a twin of Van Heesch but she had two dogs and her house gets set on fire so the whole situation it just it is one of the most disturbing things I've ever encountered because with a lot of these stories

1:12:19 there's always sort of like an out. Like, okay well you know this looks bad but there's some other explanation that we can make. There are so many moving parts with this story and again that connection to that situation with that woman in Valhalla in 2015 Ellen who dies on the day of the festival of torches by the way which is also connected to Hecate and the day that Anne Heche died on the Hecate or what when she was declared dead on the Hecataean Isles. So, there are just too many ritualized connections for me to say

1:13:01 Oh, well this is weird but maybe it's just all sinks. Well a lot of people try to say the NH thing they say that well if you're in trauma you might jump up and that kind of thing but that is not what it looks like to me but if you watch the video every comment section top comment is saying like well when your body goes through a traumatic event like that you don't know how it might react and it's like sure go ahead and say that that's your swamp gas weather balloon explanation but what I saw as a woman who's like Shove me in this ambulance and don't cover me up. I want to get free shoes trying to get away Yeah, and the guy doesn't act like he's surprised that she jumped up You know if I'm pushing a gurney and someone jumps up. I'm like whoa look

1:13:44 Uh, you know, you might get them to lay back down and stuff, but he has no reaction at all. He's just like subtly like go into the vehicle so, but let me try to wrap a bow around this. So you also did a two and a half hour I think maybe three hour events the other night that was quite good. And I want to bring out a couple of little facts that draw a line between the beginning of the show and this Anne Heche thing here at the end of the show, and of course The Sybil. Cock Two Twins have an album called Bluebell Knoll Well, Boulder Mountain also known as Blue Bell Knoll is in Utah and it makes up half of the Aquarius Plateau of South Central Utah and Wayne and Garfield counties. To get to Orem where Charlie Kirk was shot is less than 200 miles and you have to drive right through Aurora to get there

1:14:38 James Shelby Downard, where are you? We need ya! So then five blocks from where Charlie Kirk is assassinated is a Best Friends Animal Sanctuary. Why's that relevant? Well it seems to be a front for something because according to your slide, according to the FBI David Berkowitz was a member of the Process Church and was associated with the individuals running Friends Animal Sanctuary. Leaders of the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary were allegedly involved with Berkowitz and several of the Son Of Sam murders, and who's one of the big donors? Ellen and her wife! It never ends! It never ends, Chris. No it really doesn't I'm going to be doing a live stream on the process because that's story been following for a long time i wrote about the process in The Endless American Midnight as you probably are well aware of when i saw that situation with Charlie Kirk

1:15:31 And as you said, like just a few blocks away is Best Friends Animal. But you got to be very careful because they're extremely litigious. Allegedly? Supposedly? I mean this is just what I heard online. The thing... the well-known that they are an outgrowth of The Process Church it was started by Marianne de Grimstead after she split up with Robert. But there was another split off in the Process Church and where were their headquarters? Rockefeller Plaza, what an interesting place for a cult to have their headquarters right? Very strange connections there with the Charlie Kirk thing so you mentioned Bluebell Knoll but there was also the fact that the Cocktail Twins played Utah a grand total of once and they're opening act was a band called Luna

1:16:16 Now Luna is the name of who they claim is Tyler Robinson's trans boyfriend. His birth name was Lance and he changed his name to Luna. Now, The Cocktail Tunes were touring for an album that was released four days before Charlie Kirk was born. So basically the same week. Same birthday as George Floyd by the way a couple of sacrifices one for each team Everybody pays the piper. Well, it's interesting because I was going back and looking at a lot of my old tweets because I was trying to figure out why I got shadow banned on Twitter for so many years and then I kind of realized well yeah...I was not going along with the program! I was writing all these tweets exposing BLM and Antifa and George Floyd worship. Did we? We talked about on your show, my big post

1:17:10 on the connection with George Floyd and some of the rituals that took place in the spring, in the ancient world. Yes I do recall that. You know it very much seemed like a fertility sacrifice, but that's probably why I got shadowbanned on Twitter before Elon bought them. Well although the big ritual never ends these interviews have to sometime...I'm on studio time now! I did expect this to be a fun talk about some pop culture 90s X-Files nostalgia but it did break into the heavy reality of our times as just happens

1:17:48 But thanks as always for doing it. Tell the fine folks at home where they can get the latest from The Secret Sun Institute, details about the book all the rest of it. Thesecretsunsubstack.com Secretsun.blogspot.com You can find all the other places that I am. The book is out now on Amazon, it's available in paperback hardcover and kindle versions. The hard cover is huge! It's over 400 pages long and there's a lot more of the kind of conspiracy parapolitical stuff that we've been discussing in the expanded version. I'm sure most of your viewers know where to find me by now, I mean it's such a known quantity right? Yes yes But again yeah this secrets on speaks on Twitter...I'm easy to find! I keep high profiles Well if I had a mount crush more I'm sure you'd be on it but

1:18:44 Unfortunately, that's been copy written by someone else. My 30th or 35th times I've been on like it's just the Chris Knowles chats at this point, but you are the man. I appreciate it. Thanks for sending me a copy of the book. Anyone who is an X-Files fan or fan of the themes in the X files would learn a lot. Thanks again and take care Alright guys, well that was fun but I do know what you're thinking. How could I record a two hour interview with the Secret Sun's wise sage of synchromysticism and not mention Snake Eyes? Maybe the most potently layered synchromystic pop culture conspiratorial event of all time! Well easy...

1:19:27 So we recorded this interview last week and then later that afternoon I hit him with the thread on Snake Eyes, and we were both blown away with each additional layer of detail. And then Chris did a members live stream that night and I helped him get some of the facts together and I hung out for it...and it was great! He broke it all down and connected a lot of dots with the larger tapestry he tends to cover and it was just wild But then yesterday I recorded an interview with Richard Willett, who is Wayne McCrory's co-host for the Synchromystic podcast. And we covered it all and he even blew my mind with some things i didn't know like writer director Brian De Palma, four snake eyes of course actually has his birthday as 9 11. Is anything real?

1:20:20 So I'm kind of talking around this because, I assume 80% of our listeners already know and as i just said. I have this other interview where it is a big part the show coming right up Just to bring people up to speed there isn't Nicholas Cage movie from the 90's called Snake Eyes he plays detective who was at live boxing match on September 10th and a senator named Charles Kirkland get shot in the neck And so you have the name, the date and the method. If we were playing Clue it would be game over but it does go deeper still The boxer who takes a dive as a distraction intentionally his name is Lincoln the executioner Tyler and then also there's this Trump character where you know you go to the IMDB trivia and for a long time It's been known this character is based on Trump. It's not some new thing. It's not a stretch

1:21:14 And this character who is the billionaire who owns the casino, he's friends with the guy who got shot. And then as the film unfolds it turns out that he was in on it because Charles Kirkland wouldn't just go along with a plan and you know how that goes... It is very wild! Maybe the most layered detailed example of sync ever. And also the movie Snake Eyes relating to a real event that took place in the year of the snake, and then the Charlie Kirk Memorial is at the State Farm Arena in Phoenix and the only sports team I know of represented by a snake is the Arizona Diamondbacks! It's wild but I'll have to just shut up or I'm repeating myself for the next episode

1:22:01 Though, I think this is so crazy it deserves to be talked about more than twice. It is part of our secret sauce here, synchromysticism you know? But as for what this episode was actually about... We even have a weird sync with Charlie Kirk being shot on the 32nd anniversary of The X-Files airing?! Isn't that odd! Sharing a birthday with George Floyd! It's all getting far too weird And something is definitely up with the Best Friends Pet Sanctuary. Funny, because when we finished recording this my man in the booth was like damn not only was that a great interview but that's where we got our dog! Best Friends Pet Sanctuary

1:22:42 So it definitely hit him with a nice personal touch to cap it all off and big congrats to Chris for getting this book out. It's very detailed, I know the X-Files might not be a big part of every listener's life anymore but thematically...it is all there and we tried to stick to the themes and inspirations in real world events that were related to the show rather than the plot or behind the scenes drama and all that I hoped that we could fold in a little something for everyone while paying our respects to the best of the best and the work that it takes to get a new project out. But, I think we really stuck the landing putting the Anne Heche stuff there at the end with the Ellen overlay and the Charlie Kirk shooting connection bringing it back to the beginning It really was full circle

1:23:33 Anyway, yes some somewhat current events on the front and back end with a lot of great stuff related to the book in the middle. The second hour got into the Falklands War and extraterrestrial involvement and the Black Goo which is a big theme in The X-Files We talked about that latest black goo story from the kid who found the meteor I think I even threw that up on the screen too if the guys in studio could find it hard to find original footage and I don't TikTok I guess i have to. It's kind of part of the job now, but we went down a big list of unethical human experimentation throughout US history. I brought up the St Louis Pruitt-Igoe housing project and the sprayers people said they remember there and their health effects... And! I mentioned at that part that my memory was fuzzy but I was pretty sure

1:24:23 that the architect of the Prudigo building was the same main architect of the Twin Towers and that fact is correct. I looked it up afterwards and both of them have the same chief architect, and funny enough both buildings went down in professional demolitions! We also talked about cults in The X-Files and in life cultural shifts and the rise of the nerds, and just what Jed Apatow did to all us. The Kellogg's legacy in the food industry we talked a little bit about how I really am into Matt Leshak's work, LESAK, LESHAK... The Fiat Food Book that really talks about how getting this off the gold standard was a big part trying to find some bullshit

1:25:12 cheap cardboard-esque food that could hide that inflation. We talked about the whole drama with Scully's pregnancy and maybe some other stuff going on there If you heard it, you heard it And I hope you could read between the lines and all that Sign up for PLUS if you want to support a show that does it all without interruptions and unrelated sponsors or networks or managers or agents or anything Links right there in the show notes If you are an X-Files fan, you would love this book. The episode by episode guide really does give you a lot to think about going back through all the different episodes I actually probably will go back through the series myself and just watch the ones that Chris gave five stars because he does rate every episode too

1:26:01 And I think at the end there, Chris had mentioned the Frazzle Drip inspired cartoon that Justin Roiland had made. When we were talking about the idea that this video got out...this little piece of insurance and they wanted to shut it down and maybe killed a bunch of people who knew anything about if if did go to court and could be called upon But Justin Roiland, yeah apparently he made two videos that were allusions to the Frazzledrip video and one of them was Rick & Morty and it was an actual Super Bowl commercial. And I went watch that is for Pringles Yeah Chris is right Morty's face comes off and he's a robot underneath It does seem like Justin is trying to elude to that without getting caught You know you can't spell out so its always gonna be a little iffy

1:26:51 I think i could see him as the kind of guy who would get a charge from coming right up to the line on something like that. Especially during such a high profile event and... That's one thing, but I want to play the non Rick & Morty cartoon that he made it is a lot more overt and remember cartoons take a lot of effort to make for the audio listeners only going to play the relevant 30 seconds or so and hearing it is really all you need But a guy comes home from work and he has two kids tied up in his living room and gagged, and then he just pulls out a switchblade and cuts off their faces. Use your imagination! The time has come for me to dispose of you I've had my sexual fill And i cannot allow your presence to distract me from my job as head writer and host Of the wildly successful television show Unbelievable Tales God forgive me

1:27:55 You're my inspiration. My inspiration? You're my inspiration! It is just so sickening, why would a guy do this? Is it to reveal or is it to celebrate? Hard to say but the PR machine definitely took him down right after he wouldn't shut up about this Much like Charlie Kirk, if you start to say too much or the wrong things then they just take away the audience that you were allowed to have one way or another. That's the world! Alright as far as higher side news goes obviously I tried to rearrange my office here it's a bit better for filming wrap-ups i still do have some work to do

1:28:45 But that whole long shot across the entire room, that was very weird. I wanted to fix that but everybody films in this sort of way where they're backed up right to a wall and think about how unnatural that is now my desk is in the center of the room! ...but...I guess it has to serve its function Anyway this at least progress? I still don't think you can really read the titles on the books on the wall and that would be nice if you could so the shelf needs to be organized but whatever What else? I don't know if there's really anything else. Pretty standard stuff, Don't fix it if it ain't broke right So let's do the review thing for the last episode Richard Grove you know he was really good If you ask me some people were critical of his ego I don't mind a little ego if its earned You know I've talked to a lot of guests who wrote mediocre books one time

1:29:39 and I don't understand why their ego is so inflated or various reasons, but Richard had great recall and he had a source book for pretty much everything. And then he presented things really well. Audio listeners didn't see this but when Richard would reference a book, he could typically grab it off the shelf and then put it down and cut to a different camera that would display the cover. Who does that? That's going the extra mile So I appreciated the attention to detail. I thought he did a great job even when i asked him about a few things outside of his wheelhouse like the secret societies and what the secrets are and cultists and all that stuff, that's not exactly his layer of the conspiracy but

1:30:24 The plus listeners were impressed. He got a 4.7 and that makes sense, he was very good so I'm glad that we are in alignment there and uh i put out a show that was well liked that's all I'm trying to do now as for the meetup calendar two new events have been added let's get into that October 8th at the Coal Bidder Collective at Riverscape Metro Park in Dayton, Ohio. October 9th New Haven Connecticut 3 sheets that's where it is going down. October 17th Elkin North Carolina at The Rail Yard

1:31:03 Okay, and I thought I saw another one here. Oh September 28th That's actually today if you still have time to attend it is tonight at 6 o'clock If you're in Portland Oregon go to bunk bar and Portlands in the news actually Stay safe stay out of it Don't let yourself get swept up in craziness And I'm not trying to say that if we just keep letting it go that totalitarian authoritarian won't stuff won't get worse It probably will Just stay safe. I mean, it's pretty basic stuff Anyway that is tonight at Bunk Bar if they're still open in Portland Oregon Alright! I think Hireside Chat fans are pretty savvy when it comes to navigating stuff like that without getting too emotionally riled up

1:31:56 I don't know. I'm kind of just bullshitting because i haven't really looked at it that much except to see that it was a trend and then it's because the troops are coming out and they're going for Antifa which, I don't even think is a real organization with a headquarters or anything... It's just kind of a vague thing like terrorist and we know how the game is played you use a vague term so you can basically do whatever you want in the name of getting x y or z anyway Stay safe out there and it's nice to see a couple more events added to the calendar. It's great to meet like-minded local people and put the screens down for awhile, especially when things are heating up. And that's basically the show! Thanks for keeping me in your rotation I know there is a never ending stream of attention seeking content so sticking with me is much appreciated Take care you and yours Big thanks to Chris as well I have done my part

1:32:54 Your move, synchromistic pop culture template takers conspiratorial showrunners and engineers of those so-called real world events. You're fucking... Chris says AI is useless He thinks that it's all hype But has he tried to make a song from whatever he can type? It may be just a parlor trick

1:33:31 But life is just a every passing We're pushing this shit far The Secret Sun, so fun to code The Secret Sun, second to none Something in the Secret Sun So fun to code Second to none Something in... The Secret Sun Institute A prestigious place to learn

1:34:34 And a cozy, comfy happy place To watch the world burn He will drown The secret son so fun Decoding all the things The secret sons second to none Something in the wires and Son! So! The secret sons second to none Something in the wounds