Chris Knowles | The Devolution Agenda, Decoding NASA, & The Heaven’s Gate Cult

00:05 Puppet masters almost surely have up this clearly maybe something ebby And until you've thoroughly tested every last close-tested think you know the less you really do That's true, Dr. Seuss Without THC Cause we're all they're lying to us just don't know without THC The higher side chat show our one company

00:43 Here we go, Hireside Chatters. How the hell are you? Drinking a little drink, smoking a little smoke and raising that middle finger high to the oppressive power pyramid propped up on the backs of the common man from sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood And today is a real treat because we spend a fair amount of time trying to analyze occult symbols and mystical messages from Hollywood NASA award shows in nearly everywhere else they pop-up wondering if were ignorantly witnessing the manifestation of some ritual magic of the elite if they're paying tribute to some multi-dimensional deity, or if we're blowing everything out of proportion. We see it and would love to understand it but most of us really don't have the years of study it takes to be familiar with the roots, origins, ancient traditions and entities that are sometimes being referenced

01:26 But lucky for us, today's guest has just such a context. His name is Chris Knowles, a bona fide expert in synchromysticism, occult analysis, pop culture symbology and alternative history He's also the man behind the Eagle Award winning book Our Gods Wear Spandex The Secret History of Comic Book Heroes as well as The Secret History Of Rock And Roll The Mysterious Roots Of Modern Music he's also co-authored the quintessential X-Files tome, The Complete X-Files Behind the Series, The Myths & The Movies But that's not all folks, you might also know him as the guy behind the popular SecretSun blog at secretsun.blogspot.com where he provides a similar breakdown on all things interesting and honor and pleasure Chris my man how the hell are ya?

02:08 I'm doing alright Greg, good to be here. Yeah man thanks for doing this! I am pretty psyched i've seen tons of interesting info from you at this point...I mean you've written about how rock and roll is just a repackaging of ancient mystery cults how superheroes are just a repackaging of the gods mythology and uh noticing a pattern here man I mean is anything original anymore? No not at all it's just the human psyche you know we recycling the same old archetypes over and over again we can't help but it's in our makeup, you know we face the same old crises and we respond to the same old ways. Part of the programming the secular nature of time yeah where exactly that programing comes from you know it's an open question but it seems to be. The same old patterns manifesting themselves over time they just do so in different ways and once you peel away the surface details and peek underneath your see the same,

03:07 Structure underneath it's all the same underneath once you get past the. superficial aspects of it all. So, we're the same creatures we've always been I don't really think things have changed all that much. I mean technology has changed but it hasn't changed who we are at least yet We hear a lot of talk about transhumanism and all that kind of stuff I think that's all a bunch of hype. I'm very skeptical about it because i actually read the articles beyond the headlines and its all speculation and pseudoscience you know, I think we are who we are and have always been And we really take for granted how elaborate and technologically advanced in their own way the ancients were they had steam engines

04:07 very elaborate forms of storing and retrieving information in their libraries and things like that. And then they had, you know I think they had more powerful brains than we have i think our brains are withering um...I think the technology that we have is crippling our brains They were smarter than we are. I really believe that very strongly Yeah, I'm with you. I kind of feel that way too but it is a pretty big 180 from the conventional thought because it seems like we're taught this idea that we've been on a steady incline of progress throughout humanity's history But when you look at the depth of their art and writing even just a couple hundred years ago It seems pretty clear people reading works well above the level of a Maxim magazine I also think it has a lot to do with the education system in our slow devolution process We're losing ground and nearly every category for as long as I've been alive

04:58 And that seems pretty calculated and orchestrated as well. Yeah, there's definitely a devolutionary process at work. There is no question in my mind I'm a student of popular culture when I was researching our gods were Hispanics and I was just looking at the level of popular culture say in the 30s it shows a level of sophistication in the artwork and then the writing and stuff like that puts us to shame. You know, I mean you don't even need to go back that far. Go back and look at an issue of Time Magazine or Playboy magazine or just any popular magazine from the early 70s And look at these little slivers these little pamphlets that they put out now mostly pictures dumbed down analyses They seem to be afraid to burden our minds with too much text

05:50 Forty years, that's a blink of an eye. That's not even anything in the span of human history. 40 years is nothing. If you just go back to any used bookstore or anything like that and look at the old magazines, you'll be shocked! You will literally be shocked to see how we have devolved, how things have just seemingly fallen apart. And a lot of it is the educational system, but a lot of it is technology! I mean we've become so over-reliant on technology and Google searches replacing memory you know human memory is a powerful tool and we've allowed it to wither because we can just use these crutches

06:40 So that's true the technology aspect is right on because I can still remember phone numbers from when i was 12 13 14 years old before there were cell phones. I still have those numbers in my head but you know, I've been with the same girl for six years. I don't know her phone number Yeah, well because you probably have it on speed dial. Exactly! You know I remember when I was a kid you had to actually dial phone numbers and all the dials even before touch tone. Right. And then I remember when touch tone phones came along that was like oh my god this is like super science. But anyway, I digress. Yeah so a lot of this the type of analysis that you do is picking apart recent events or the latest to come out of our engineered pop culture or statements from NASA these kind of things and You know things seem to be moving pretty fast sometimes especially now And what are some of the numbers symbols connections that you're seeing in the news stories or current events that we've seen lately?

07:35 Well, I'll tell you something. I got to a point a few years ago – I was doing a lot of that stuff – I was really tuned into the news and I started to feel like an accomplice. I started to feel like I was being used. You know? I started to feel like I was part of a process that… A link in a chain. Do you understand what I'm saying? Absolutely, i get that vibe sometimes myself You know they put these symbols out They put these numbers out They put all this crypto information out And people don't understand it and people don't process until somebody comes along an says Hey! This is what this means Look at this Pay attention to this

08:24 And until somebody does that, it just floats down the memory hole. I really came to feel that I was part of this process, that I was an unwitting pawn, that I was a tool that they were running all these games and i was part of this and then i wrote about this i think i wrote about the sun is so sad like which is one of the sister blogs at the secret sign. And i started to feel like you know this,

09:04 I felt dirty you know i did and, i have done some work especially with nasa because that's a whole different situation i'm interested still in what nasser is doing because they're trying to tell us something Playing a double game there's a narrative and then there's a secret narrative because they're trying to tell us what's really going on between the lines. Because they're not maybe i don't know if they are not allowed but this is certain may be taboo

09:45 Again, saying what's really going on with all these things going on with Pluto. And the best example of this and this is something I called out and I sort of got on the radar. I had some major media outlets paying attention to me all of a sudden whether yeah it was really creepy because what I pointed out When they were taking pictures of Pluto, I said this isn't about Pluto. They don't care about Pluto. They are worried about what's beyond Pluto You know? I think what they're really worried about is that they're worried about Planet X. They're worried about Trans-Pluto objects That could create problems that could enter into the solar system you know there's this whole lore

10:43 You know, say you know with Nibiru and all these kind of things. But also things like Nemesis... There's a whole lore, Immanuel Velikovsky, a lot of this kind of information that is put into that shelf of pseudoscience okay? They put that on the shelf officially! Officially okay?! I think unofficially it is still very much concerned Now, I said when they were taking these pictures of Pluto that this New Horizons probe is not about Pluto. It's about going past Pluto and trying to figure out what's going on.

11:27 Because the solar system is anywhere from one to two light years in diameter. It's enormous We have no idea what's out there We really we talk about these solar systems that are I don't know 20 light-years 200 light years away it's its its absurd to me because they're talking about you know, these perturbations on orbits and things like that. To me I don't even take it seriously anymore because we don't know what's in our own solar system! You know they talk about the Oort cloud and things like this so anyway but what i did is that I said no this is not what this is about This is about what's beyond...this is about planet X or whether there's planet x and then there's a brown dwarf because

12:18 thesis that most solar systems consist of a star and an unignited twin. Okay, so that a lot of people think that the sun has somewhere out beyond our vision what's called the brown dwarf So I was writing about this and all of a sudden, I guess I started lighting up boards somewhere because Paris Match which is a big French magazine was linking to me. I was contacted by Newsweek. All these – all the sudden, I just lit up a board somewhere and soon afterwards

13:03 Then the stories come out, oh well maybe this is about Planet X. You know then the story start leaking into the mainstream science press that maybe this actually is not really about Pluto I mean Pluto's nice, Pluto's interesting but maybe this is about something beyond and you know one of the reasons I was able to sort of spot this is that I was sort of looking at the symbolism You know, the symbolism is sort of the marker. It's sort of the call out and when you're able to decipher this symbolism then you sort of understand what they are really talking about. The Plutonian symbolism and there is all this symbolism with death in the underworld and things like that it all seemed to me that it was all about these mysterious

13:55 World like the river sticks you travel this invisible cosmic river sticks beyond pluto into this. Trans-plutonium mystery zone out there. And like I said, there are beliefs that the solar system is anywhere from one to two light years in diameter. That's enormous! It's almost unfathomable but that's just an example of why I still pay attention to the situations with NASA because I still believe

14:31 are things that they want to tell us, but maybe can't. Yeah. The stuff like you know like say the Video Music Awards I'm so bored with that by now it's so obvious it's so simplistic It's just monotonous You know the usual eye in a triangle and all that kind of nonsense Right right And all this satanic symbolism Egyptian symbolism It's so tired, and you know the Egyptian symbolism its also tired Its also overdone I mean I was writing about this stuff Wow, eight years ago? I mean it's just been done to death. It's just so simplistic and you know one of the things that people will ask me a question like is this stuff emanating from their collective unconscious or is this stuff being put there intentionally and my answer is always if its really dumb an obvious and repetitive then it's put there intentionally

15:27 If it's weird and oblique, and hard to fathom. And sort of itches at your brain and you have to pick it out then its welling up from somewhere else. It may be something that they've put into motion But the stories are starting to tell themselves. Does that make sense to you? It does, kind of like what you say in Knowles Laws, the more obvious something is, the more attention mainstream media gives it, the more it's probably not what you really need to be looking for Yeah That's an old magician trick

16:08 Yes. You know, it's misdirection. The left hand is busy while the right hand is performing the magic trick and I just took that maxim and I just applied it to what's going on in the media and then you know, it's pretty predictive Yeah man, it is. And I mentioned your Knowles Laws section of the site...I really like all the things that you've got down there! I think they provide a pretty solid barometer for navigating the conspiracy field—I mentioned that one and this other one makes a really good point. You say whenever a controversy over symbolism erupts in the media its usually disguising another hidden symbolic message altogether. I think thats pretty spot on man and its just

16:52 what we're talking about here. But do you think some of these things are sometimes engineered rituals of some sort or is that where conspiracy bloggers take things too far? No, I definitely do. I definitely do but i don't think that's anything that you really need to worry about as far If you're not familiar with it, if you don't know about it. You should learn about and you should sort of pay attention to it but after that It doesn't feed your mind. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't go anywhere. It just goes around in circles. It's like a merry-go-round. You get on the merry-go-round and you get off at the same entry point right? And that for me is

17:41 A lot of the symbology that they put out there in the media is, you know, they found that people like to pay attention to it. And people won't pay attention to other things when they're paying attention to this stuff because they think its some grand secret. They think theres some deeper meaning to it and usually their isn't. Sometimes there is. I think that's a great point because it's really tantalizing to look at some of this stuff and see certain symbols come out of Jay-Z and Rihanna, seeing what they're doing in these performances. It's full of overblown symbolism but yet the things like the Transpacific Partnership or low wages... These are the things that aren't quite as sexy but they're affecting you directly! Yes yes

18:25 Exactly. That's exactly it and that gets back to the whole magicians trick, you know? The misdirection with one hand while the other hand is... Cutting your wages and cutting your benefits. And that's the thing i worry about because a lot of this symbolism is aimed at people who are the most vulnerable you know who the most who are being targeted, end the eat the stuff up when they should be really worried more about bread and butter issues. And that's really another reason why in a lot of ways I stopped focusing on that stuff because like i said, I felt like an accomplice. You didn't want to participate in that distraction? Everybody loves secrets and everybody likes to figure out a puzzle so they put these puzzles out there for you

19:25 and make you feel like you're in on a secret, but at the end of the day, you're not sitting at the table with them. You are not part of their agenda. So what purpose does it serve in the end? And that's really Why I used to do so much of that stuff and why I felt that I had to step back because I wasn't part of that agenda. I wasn't sitting at the table with them, I wasn't included, I wasn't palling around with Jay-Z and Beyonce they weren't inviting me to their parties

20:09 You know, why should I sit there and magnify their little ritualistic gamesmanship? What purpose does it serve for me? It wasn't getting me anywhere. My only hope with looking at some of that stuff is that we could piece together parts of the playbook for what might be coming down the pipe... I always feel like everything is just so out in the open now anyway That things have gotten so bad and so obvious They don't even need to hide anything. And I think a lot of that is, you know and in some ways it's the dumbing down of society. It's like they don't need to hide anything because people don't pay attention anyway! How many people know what the Trans-Pacific Partnership even means? If you stood outside with a microphone

21:03 and ask people if they even heard of it. How many people do you think would even know what you are talking about? Man it's tough forty percent i'd be a whole number forty percent you think last four maybe fourteen percent i'm not kidding. I'm an optimist you are an optimistic me maybe i am too pessimistic but i think if you were lucky fourteen percent would know what you're talking about because the papers don't talk about that you know they bury it in the middle or at the end Or that maybe they don't even cover it at all. And it's so much different than when I was growing up, It's interesting you know when you talk about conspiracy culture because Conspiracy culture was a much different thing When I was growing up You know you talk about the X-Files So it was much more like My entry point was sort of like that lone gunman kind of conspiracy culture Uh...it was much more of a counterculture

22:05 hippie it was a different there wasn't like alex jones is what i'm trying to say it was much more of a. counterculture vibe. Yeah, like books like 50 greatest conspiracies of all time and things like that and you know on WB in New York I don't know how many people are familiar with that there was some really good interesting conspiracy oriented radio programs Gary Noll and it's a really good show called Expert Witness that did a lot of that stuff so I sort of came from almost like a left libertarian viewpoint

22:44 And I think maybe the dominant voice now is maybe like a right libertarian point of view. Yeah, me too! I hear that and you know i don't necessarily have a problem with that it's just not my culture And there are certain aspects of the culture that I am uncomfortable with. Definitely But at the same time, we're all subject to the same depredations We're on the other end of a stick You know? Yeah! We're all in this together I guess...I should say I would definitely agree with that. I want to bring it back to NASA just a little bit more because we just had some recent announcements from them, they just announced this two mile wide asteroid pass by they announced yesterday said it's going to be within the next 48 hours and it just so happens to be asteroid number 8666. I mean that's another one of those strange things you wonder if it even exists? How do we even know um this is the end of mercury retrograde

23:48 today as we're taping which is October 9th. So does that asteroid even exist or is there some ritualistic significance to this? I mean, this is the thing that you really have to wonder. We have no way of confirming... amateur astronomers can tell us for sure. But... Well, see that's a problem that I'm really facing with my own audience right now in that NASA deceptions seem to have pushed people into such territory that any guest who builds their ideas off some NASA data is dismissed by a good chunk of people which is really what's fueling the growing flat earth movement too, I think but how would you suggest people read between the lines and when NASA spits out without going so far as to doubt space itself exists?

24:38 Well, here's the thing. People have to remember that NASA is basically a military intelligence operation. Right? NASA has a PR front you know oh hey we're growing tomatoes and playing guitar up in space it sounds so ridiculous I think you just have to use your common sense I understand, actually when the flat earth stuff came out i was really fascinated by it and there was something that was almost like very punk rock.

25:15 Big F you is that there's a big f you and I think that I think that's a huge part of it. It's just like people just get so sick of the lies and the Manipulations that is just they throw up their hands. That's looks like hell with it, you know, it's a flat earth then Take it to the extreme but that's human nature That's gonna happen. It's always happened than it always will mm-hmm people have to just come to their own conclusions. You can argue with them, but I found that flat-earthers love to argue and they're really good at it! They have a really good body of evidence that they draw on to argue because i think its basically... It almost reminds me like a debating society point

26:12 You know, that's just inevitable. Yeah Jonathan Bankin who wrote the 50 greatest conspiracies of all time you know he said that conspiracy culture was just an inevitable outgrowth of government disinformation when because he was being interviewed about it and he just said that people get lied to so much this is post Watergate post Vietnam or things like that or post Iran-Contra that there's always going to be a certain amount of people who are just gonna take that extreme stance. You're right, and I mean I love looking at that stuff not because i come to the same conclusion but because I love to see their arguments where they're poking holes in all the things we've been told from NASA like that part I love but then when it comes to the conclusion of a flat earth that's where I kind of get off and say you know I can't draw any conclusions from this you know there is a lot of great data

27:11 holes you've poked in their lives, but I just can't get on board with the conclusion. Yeah and i can either but that's the way I feel about a lot of stuff in the conspiracy realm it's useful to poke holes It's like you agree with their debating points But you might not agree with... You know they're do you agree with their cons? But you don't agree with their pros is basically what I'm trying to say And I think that's just, again, that's just going to be an inevitable part of the process. I've been there and sort of done that. I don't really pay attention to it because you can only hear the same points over and over again so many times. It just gets to be a bit much. I don't actually believe in the flat earth but...I'm sure I'm gonna hear about it but… Well you would either way!

28:07 So, you did mention with this new horizons thing the possibility of a brown dwarf out there and that makes me think of the Thunderbolts project I'm sure your familiar with or the Electric Universe model. The idea that Saturn was once a brown dwarf and This idea of a golden age might have been at a time when our solar system was radically different, getting its energy from a different body than the sun. And that's pretty far out stuff but we do see a lot of Saturn symbolism and this is where some people try to connect the dots What do you make of the Saturnian symbolism we see and that idea that Saturn might have been way more important at a time, or maybe still is than we know in the mainstream? David Well I'll tell ya. Saturn I don't think had the mass to be a brown dwarf. They said Jupiter doesn't have the mass to be an unignited sun

28:59 So, I can't see Saturn being big enough. You know? I could be wrong and I'm sure people will correct me if I am wrong. Saturn is sort of the nemesis of Jupiter and I think it plays into a sort of contrarian undercurrent in maybe certain secret societies that arose Because you have to remember in the ancient world that this Jupiter figure, Zeus and some would argue Jehovah. And this figure was the dominant figure in state religion This was the God and he represented the state I believe that Saturn arose as sort of a

29:54 counter figure to the state, part of secret societies that were not necessarily in opposition to the state but maybe wishing to usurp or subvert the state. That you see this symbolism associated with things like The Black Sun, associated with certain secret societies throughout you know, right up to groups like the SS and things like that. Your own blog Secret Sun Yeah well there's a different meaning there but I think that that's where that comes from. I think that the Saturn symbolism has almost...I hesitate almost to say like a political connotation but it almost reminds me of some of the classical

30:50 connotations associated with Lucifer, you know the rebel angel. There's a whole mythology that there is this lucifarian religion and there is this lucifarian corpus of literature...there's no such thing! There's no lucifarian literature I mean there's this Satanism which is actually fairly recent development in culture and society. But, you know, Luciferianism is really a mythology and really arises from the mythology of Prometheus who again is this figure that stands in opposition to the gods I mean Prometheus rebelled against Zeus Jupiter to bring light fire to humanity and I think that's

31:46 I think that's the origin of a lot of this. I think it is a powerful symbol of opposition to certain secret societies and if you really look at the history, Of this symbolism that usually what its attached too. Yeah yeah that makes sense It does and im with you we see alot of people trying point the finger at Luciferian cults or Satanist cults and I really don't like that conclusion because that kind of assumes that the Christian paradigm is correct, and I definitely don't think that so that's another area. Well see that's it That's the big problem with so much of conspiracy culture is that a lot of it comes from Christian apocalypticism

32:34 That there is this conspiracy of Satan, that Satan is in charge of the big conspiracy and the conspiracy is against God's rule. And that you know this constant undermining of God's authority and that's what the conspiracy is. I'm familiar with this because conventional, conservative Christian upbringing. So I understand this thinking. But you know the problem is too often and I think it's really served

33:16 You know, the conspiracy becomes a pejorative in a lot of people's minds. And I think that a lot of that is the connotation with conservative Christian culture—that the two are sort of conjoined… That people identify conspiracy culture with evangelical or fundamentalist culture because So much of conspiracy culture is informed by fundamentalism and always has been. I mean, go back to proofs of a conspiracy in books like that going back to 1700's and things like that. Right! That makes sense although i definitely don't really like that religious catastrophism association it's no doubt there

34:03 I guess one last thing i wanted to mention from NASA's announcements about Pluto is that they're saying they found apparently blue skies there and red water as well as red ice. And isn't that nice? It's a shame they couldn't have found THC there too so my show would have gotten a nice little keyword boost this week but you know curious findings man, I'm not sure if those are literal findings or if they're saying these things for more symbolic reasons again you know it feels like Yeah, how can it have blue skies? It's so far from the sun. Right I don't know weird stuff. It's very strange that all feels very ritualistic to me you know Blue Skies Red Water and you know the Blue Lodge The Red Lodge things like that. Hmm yeah What are they trying to say? Yeah You really start to wonder III don't know it's funny because

34:59 Like I said, we have no way of challenging the data because they have the monopoly on these space probes. But there you go! Take it as a comp and some people just get so tired of all the time flutter. So man we are really, jogging along here we really haven't even gotten into any of your serious writings here but i know like let's talk about heaven's gate little bit i know you got an interest in this heavens gate coldness largely considered silliness is a little bit old news but there was one interesting point i've heard you make in that the phoenix lights

35:37 Coordinated pretty well with their quote unquote departure and that makes one thing doesn't it yeah i'm having skate is really interesting. What thing did you people do think the kind of silly and not just the way the media painted them, If you actually go and read some of the writings on their blog, I mean they were really way ahead of the curve when it comes to talking about the surveillance state and things like that. They were really calling that out way before the mainstream, you know? Way before we saw things like Edward Snowden and things like that

36:16 They were involved, well certain members were involved with the Army's Jedi program. So I don't know if they were kind of in the loop with some of these programs, some of these surveillance programs but They were not happy fun guys like you know the media like they were just a bunch of silly track is there are pretty serious about what they're doing and they were like a very. Rigid regimented group, I think that they've been painted, you know for political reasons as goofy and unserious but they worked really hard at what they were doing. You can certainly argue with what they were doing, I don't think most of us would care to be part of that But... They were a genuine Christian Gnostic cult Very classical Christian Gnostic cult

37:19 This is funny because one of my great beefs with modern, you know the sort of popularization of Gnosticism. I think a lot people who talk about Gnosticism sort of want it to be like replacement as sort of Protestantism that they grew up in And that's not what Gnosticism was. I mean, if Gnostics were sort of time-traveled to today and you don't even have to go that far. If you go back and – not even go back – I mean, go over and look at groups like the Yazidi and the Mendeans, these groups that are all getting treated incredibly horribly over in Iraq by Islamic Caliphate

38:00 It's not too much of a stretch to call them UFO cults if you go and read their readings. It's all clouds of light Flying around and beings of light getting in and out of them, and all this kind of stuff it's pretty Explicit and it's really not that much different than the heavens gate The heavens gate really definitely put it in that sci-fi context I mean they they love their Star Trek And they were really hardcore about it. But they were not all that different, you know? The whole thing about evolving into the next level above humans and that's very Gnostic kind of concept, escaping the cycle of reincarnation into human meat prisons and things like that.

38:49 So, I've been very interested in them for a number of years. But the thing that was interesting is that there was that – because this again ties into Project Stargate, you know the remote viewing programs and things like that, the remote viewing programs in the Army people like Ed Dames and Prudence Calabrese and all these kind of people these strange figures operating in and out of the military's remote viewing programs, that whole period back in I guess 97 now when Hale-Bopp showed up and there was a companion. Some of the astronomers had photographed a companion object and they believed that it was this giant UFO that was coming to

39:38 Coming to get them and everything like that. And, you know just around the time they decided to exit their vehicles as they put it. That's when the Phoenix Lights flap started up. So that is a, I mean people have argued ever since what the Phoenix lights were. Umm...I don't think they were just military flares. I think the military flares were an intentional misdirection because they came couple of hours later But, yeah I mean that's quite the coincidence. You know? It is! And that's right near you. That whole thing as Rancho Santa Fe...I don't know how far away from you all that happened but and they had money too and there was a whole tie in with 9-11 with all of that because apparently... Really?! Yeah!

40:33 The people that they were renting that house from, some big mansion had some involvement with 9-11 and everything like that. I mean it's just a bizarre story that does not fit with the media narrative at all. It is much more complex and much more problematic And a lot more challenging than people have painted it as and didn't like i said their beliefs they were. They are pretty paranoid, You know, they were not happy about the way things were going. And you know I think one of the reasons that they chose to exit their vehicles quote-unquote is that they were afraid. They were afraid of what was coming down the pike. Right and there also seems to be connections to Hollywood that seem a bit curious for a group like that that's that small right? Yeah! That's the other thing is that in 19...

41:32 82 I believe. It was just before Dynasty, John Forsyte who played Charlie on Charlie's Angels played Marshall Applewhite there was a TV movie which is meant to be a pilot for series which is just the most insane thing you can possibly imagine There was a pilot made called The Mysterious Two and it was based on Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles And it was about these aliens who come down and purchase an old missile launching base. I guess there's this whole question of whether they are aliens, but they gather up these people and it's this whole sort of Woodstock... You can find the movie on YouTube! It's really surreal! Why does this exist?

42:29 enigmas. You try to figure out like, you know... I mean there was an event in the 70s where Heaven's Gate did vanish and it became a huge news story because I think there were like 30 or 40 of them that just vanished into the woods in Oregon And I guess they told people that they were going to leave on a spaceship They just weren't in the woods It became a huge news story. But the other thing, when I did this, I did what was called The Secret Star Trek Series which was basically taking all of the strange parapolitical and conspiracy and all the just weirdness involved with Star Trek and sort of putting into one huge series. And there's a lot of it believe me

43:21 But one of the things with Heaven's Gate is that the week of their suicides, there was this episode of The Outer Limits that was basically like an idealized version of Heaven's Gate leaving Earth. It's incredibly bizarre! I don't know how many people actually knew they were going to commit suicide that week. You really want to but then again I mean they did have these connections to military intelligence so right. And the writer on that episode was also one of the producers on that show Stargate SG1 which had direct connections to the US Air Force and a lot of people don't realize that, that show star gate was there's a lot of interest on the part of the air force at the air force

44:13 consulted on that series, which is just incredibly bizarre. I'm like what's the interest there? First of all that show was horrible and second of all it's so out there as far as the subject matter but you know You know, within NASA, within certain segments of the military and definitely within Hollywood there's definitely like what I call an ancient astronaut cult. Like a cargo cult for lack of better term that I really do believe in. I mean honestly believe this. And you can say it is not question whether you believe in their beliefs or not but I definitely believe that there are people

45:00 powerful people within these spheres of influence that do believe it. One thing that alludes to that is in your piece we're talking about the outer limits you talk about its really interesting because you have a show thats doing really well and then network basically engineered its downfall and you have this link to the intelligence community making it, and to quote the blog you say Could the fact that leaked material from classified UFO briefing papers was finding its way to primetime television be another factor in the premature death murder of the outer limits? And I think that's so interesting. I guess it alludes to the fact there was too much revealing happening because there are people in these intelligence communities who have an interest in UFOs and making, I guess things manifest

45:46 It wasn't just UFOs though, I mean it was also Project Paperclip. Years before anybody knew about Project Paperclip they were sort of Doing veiled allegories about that they were doing stuff on MK ultra. A couple of different episodes of it they were really the producer that series is a very very interesting guy he's the guy who was credited with being that the real creator of battle star galactic a guy named leslie stevens Now, why is Leslie Stevens interesting? Leslie Stevens interesting first of all because he came from military intelligence. He was involved...he was a captain in army intelligence during World War II but his father was a rear admiral in the Navy and not only an admiral but he was very powerful high-ranking Admiral who was involved with the Russia program

46:44 He was involved in debriefing Russian defectees, people who came over from the other side. Russian spies who defected and things like that he was also an inventor he invented the gear that was involved with Have you ever seen when a plane lands on an aircraft carrier that those is that gear that sort of stops the wheels? Yes. Well, Leslie Stevens father invented that this is how crazy this family and that's the guy Who was the producer and creator of the outer limits yeah you know i mean people. Yeah well he was also involved in the um did we make a new this whole interesting crossover between the limits and star trek that ties into both series because there were people,

47:39 Crossing over to you know both the old series in a lake land of new boy was in a bunch of episodes william shatner before they became known for star trek and then later people who are stars on say start next generation became involved with the new order limits which is very very strange And this is the kind of stuff that really falls down the memory hole and you really have to wonder but yes there was very much. And you really have to remember the key, when you talk about this what happened in the show is that Lyndon B. Johnson became president when John F Kennedy was assassinated it didn't just happen out of nowhere that the show all of a sudden was I mean you know the show was assassinated

48:35 right around the time JFK was assassinated. The timing was not coincidence in my opinion, I don't think but that's the kind of stuff that interests me you know when you talk about things in the media there is this kinda bottom level, lower detritus, this stuff that filters down real obvious stuff that I think it just there to attract people But there's that higher level, that really interesting stuff. That's harder to find and you really have to dig for it but once you find it its like finding the mother load because it just keeps

49:19 Unveiling i mean did the mysteries just keep revealing themselves it's really fascinating you're right and i love that series and other pieces you written that kind of dovetail with it but your rights is a crazy buncha connections that are very deep in very expansive and they just cross reference for all kinds of things I guess, well you know what does it boil down to? It boils down to that the thing that I try to find out when I dig, when I poke my nose into these mysteries is that I want to find out what people really believe. That's what I'm in it for. When they talk to each other and their coded language, what are they saying? Exactly What are they saying about what they believe Right

50:06 And that's really what has always been my fascination yeah that's the bread and butter especially when it comes to the elite i love trying to get a handle on exactly what do the rockefellers believe you know as opposed to what they've shaped the mainstream culture to be like cuz they tell us things like. magic or is just silliness, but then we see all these strange things that elude to the possibilities of magic that they might be involved in. So it is strange. Well very cool man! It has been a blast do you want to remind the people about your work and where to catch up on your writings before we go? Just go to secretsun.blogspot.com That's... You know Anything that you need to be linked too well I'll post on there

50:47 Very cool. Awesome, man! Well thanks again and keep it up take care of yourself out there all right? Thank you sir There we have it, pod people. A little later than expected but I am back in the saddle riding that conspiratorial steed into the digital sunset and what a guest to have! I feel bad because we recorded this almost a month ago at this point but I had to fit in all those conference speakers and now I can roll it out And I like this one. I was introduced to Chris's work from Gordon White, one of my favorite previous guests who actually showed me and my special lady around London a couple weekends ago, and he took us to see the Avebury Stone Circles which he calls the Thinking Man's Stonehenge. And where Bill Hicks had one of his UFO experiences on mushrooms. We went there on Halloween no less! Very cool place...

51:34 It was also on the date that pre-orders started for his new book, so if you like his writing check that out. Lots of magic stacking there and a big thanks to him for doing that and for introducing me to Chris because I think Chris is another guy who has a great blog and interesting perspective on these sort of topics thats a little different from the main conspiracy spicket And Chris writes about so much great stuff it was hard for me to narrow down some things to talk about, but I think we did good. From synchromysticism and the human devolution... ...To decoding NASA's secret narrative and the Heavens Gate cult connections It was a fun first hour! And of course subscribers of THC Plus heard the second hour about Star Trek in The Council Of Nine Which is one of Chris' most in-depth and unique series on his blog

52:18 We also got into sci-fi culture as a psyop, Obama and King Tut, various areas of Rockefeller funding, the occult renaissance and the influence of movements like Theosophy and The Golden Dawn, H.P Lovecraft's influences, Freemasonry, Chris' unique thoughts about the Apollo missions, and the X-Files and how magic works Lots of fun stuff for sure and I hope he'll come back from time to time. I really liked his perspective on NASA, why would they show us their work openly? Why would they show their technology to competing nations unprompted? It really doesn't make a lot of sense we think they're there for the public good and the kumbaya benefit of humanity but they really aren't They're a military intelligence organization

53:03 And we should expect them to behave as such. We also spent a fair amount of time referencing the Flat Earth Movement, but I also like how Chris puts it in that it's a punk rock anti-establishment vibe and I get that from it too and maybe that's why I was so excited to just have that big FU show that does throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater. Maybe I'll try to get another guest in that realm on soon. Maybe someone like Mark Sargent or something in the coming weeks because Eric Debay doesn't seem to have an interest in coming back on I'm also talking to Crowe soon which should be fun and Graham Hancock too this month if everything goes according to plan...I did get a lot of mixed messages from The Jen Briney Show as expected, I get that but so many people wrote something to the effect of voting doesn't matter or solve anything And as much as I hate the system and just want to give

53:56 a big punk rock middle finger to it, it's really just not accurate. Your choices right now are voting or nothing. Unless you have a coup planned that I don't know about you can only influence things by voting. Facebook posts about your outrage really don't do anything. pay no attention. And again, it was more about small local elections you know the moments where you can fight for marijuana legalization or citywide high-speed internet or better public transportation or public food gardens yes you have to work and vote for those things sitting on the sidelines complaining to yourself about chemtrails does not change the world it's not that chemtrails aren't important but it doesn't interfere with the elites plans at all

54:43 And I know a lot of big issues aren't up for the vote. They aren't influenceable. I mean, Guantanamo Bay was supposed to be a Big Obama issue and it's still there! But don't throw away your biggest tool for influence outright otherwise they're just going to steamroll us completely It's an imperfect answer for an imperfect world. I know that! I also did want to mention, i'm really going to try and move away from the mountains of emails and social media messages...I've been really thinking about how many hours a week that takes I'm going to start trying to focus my attention on what's happening on the THC Plus forum. I want to be more involved there, more focused. I want to flesh out some of the categories that are there and make part of it like a useful resource library kind of thing.

55:29 A lot of you guys that are there already did that with the reading list. I mean, that's a great idea! But come hang out with me there...I'm just getting way too many emails and messages to keep up with everything the way i want to and I feel rude not answering but what are you gonna do? I might even make a Q&A thread on the forums and start answering them in a monthly bonus show or something if people are interested in THAT. I get a lot of requests for doing a solo episode and maybe this would be a way to do that But either way, join THC Plus and come hang out with me on the forums. I will be there a bunch of other great people are there It is a good time And i hope you liked this show again big thanks to Chris

56:07 And I guess that's it. I've done my part, your move 9 ancient multidimensional disembodied entities of Ancient Egypt Your fricking move Sweet dreams to the elite We're calling them out on THC Uncovering secrets and conspiracies Everybody is looking for something Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you. Some of them want to abuse you. Some of them want to be abused.

56:59 Sweet themes on DHC Who the hell could disagree? We know the rabbit hole goes deep Everybody's digging for something Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be our own saviors