THC 93: Michael Ruppert | Collapse, Acceptance, & The Point Of No Return

00:01 Hey people, I gotta take a second to tell you about something we do around here called the THC Money Bomb. What i do is every 5 episodes, I total up the donations that I've gotten in that period of time and half keeps me and the show going, I take the other half and gift it back to random listeners. So far were hitting 500 each round be happier about it. So consider throwing in 5 or 10 bucks, it's cheaper than a hand at the blackjack table with better odds and scratch off ticket. Plus you know half supports the show you like and at least half will go to a like minded person who could probably use a nice surprise in these troubled times? When you make a donation I can see your email address and that is how I pick the winner!

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01:29 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times! But well 1530 and I deal with a different kind of fire... For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats How's it going people? Smoking a little smoke, drinking a little drink in sunny San Diego. I'm Greg Carlwood and wow! I have done it people We did really You have freed me I resigned from my day job as store manager at GameStop I now run this show and print conspirites And that is it I definitely took a pay cut but the support has been huge And I think this will be enough to get me through I love doing the show so much Thank you for listening

02:26 I love getting more and more people to explore wild ideas and fringe theories. And so really, I work for you now and I'm happy to do so! If you go to our new subreddit Hireside Chats You can request guests and topics discuss past shows... ...and we can have a little more of a community going which i would love to see. Now I'm gonna keep pushing to free more and more of YOU people from an unhappy cog-in-the wheel life one money bomb at time And now that I have my freedom back, and can work on all sorts of little projects I've been putting off. It's a serious death and rebirth. Probably the most pivotal moment in my life. What a perfect episode for this to align with! We got Michael Rupert from the film Collapse and the new Vice documentary series Apocalypse Man

03:12 And Mike's gone through a similar change himself. He's a real badass, he's one of my most respected people and I was honored to have him on here so let's get to it! Here is your higher education and then we're on the other side with Michael Ruperts Hi everybody over the past month i've been visiting towns across America talking about what our country needs to secure better bargain for middle class some form of higher education In a story that sounds like a prequel to Avatar, at least 8 people were killed when armed tribesmen launched an attack on Friday to stop maintenance crews repairing an oil pipeline that had been blown up last month in South East Yemen. Six soldiers guarding the crew and two tribesman were killed in the assault which succeeded in halting work on the line linking Yemen's oil fields to the export facility on the Arabian Sea.

04:08 The pipeline, with a capacity of 120 thousand barrels per day was blown up twice in two days by unidentified assailants disrupting an important source of revenue for the state. You can't do that. But these disgruntled tribesmen often carry out such attacks to pressure the government to provide jobs, settle land disputes or free relatives from prison. Tensions between the government and tribes have been running particularly high since early December when an important chief was killed in a shooting at an army checkpoint. Tribesman in the area of course have denied carrying out the explosions but said they would not allow the government to make repairs until it handed over the soldiers who killed their chief

04:48 I would say this is totally reasonable. It seems a bit weird to think about how industrialized modern societies take the stance that, well it's good for our people, it's good for the community and they think that tribes are closer to animals than they are people so who cares what they think? It reminds me of when I went to the symbiosis gathering, this desert festival. And there was a local Indian chief there talking about how when us white folks landed here we set up this legal framework to own the land and then we take Native Americans to court and ask them to produce a deed to the land. Of course they didn't have that And so with courts and laws and judges and deeds, we pushed them off the land that they've always had. We didn't have to feel guilty about it because what we did was legally okay! It was morally right because we had the paperwork That's a little mental trick that they'll put themselves through To not having own up doing terrible shitty things to people who are on the other side of the coin

05:47 Modern civilization says, well we need this land. We need this pipeline I'm sorry if it's not convenient for you But unless you have some paperwork that says we can't put this here then you can just go fuck yourself Why don't you just go get a car and we'll give you a free tank on us It's funny because we might think of laws and regulations as devices to provide fairness and freedom, but that is just the cover story. For people who make laws and regulations they just provide that legal justification for doing whatever they want I mean our president right now is a lawyer how does that work out? Another big thing people are talking about this week is the sudden influx in high-level millionaire international banker suicides, or at least ruled suicides. Now we've had strings of this before and not much has happened but it really makes some people wonder if a huge financial collapse is right around the corner But here's the deal five high level guys in ten days Not conclusive of anything but worth exploring

06:44 Mike Duker, who had worked for Russell Investments for five years was found dead close to the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Washington State. Probably jumped off Then a former senior executive at Deutsche Bank William Broeksmit was found dead in his home after an apparent suicide Then the following day The next day Carl Slimm was found out on the fourth floor of the Shangri-La Hotel in Bangkok Police said he could have pushed it to the limit You got it Mr. Slim was staying on the 20... Brody Stevens, sorry. Uh, Mr. Slim was staying on the 22nd floor with his wife and was attending a board meeting in the Thai capital then the next day

07:24 Gabriel McGee, a JP Morgan employee died after plunging from the roof of its European headquarters in London. Then rounding out banker death number five which the police are again ruling to suicide Richard Talley the founder and CEO of American Title Services has recently committed suicide by shooting himself in the head multiple times with a nail gun Now these are five major international bankers and some are saying that it's because of increased pressure and investigation by government agencies but I'm not so sure that bankers are ever going to be held accountable. So, that sounds fishy to me... And suicide by nail gun to the head also a bit hardcore for an old rich white guy

08:05 So weird as this all may be, I was following a thread on Reddit about these deaths and saw very interesting posts that were trying to shed some light on what the culture is right now for these people. Check this out A guy named PoliteAndWhite on the subreddit FarRight says, What happened yesterday left me absolutely stunned in disbelief. I manage the portfolios for more than half of our richest clients and my boss called me into his office and told me to cash them all out immediately! My obvious thought was that there was going to be a crash, but it sounded strange that he was so adamant about cashing them out. He clearly knew something, so I asked him what was up? He spilled the beans and said look we're going into a currency crisis major banks are going to default in the next three weeks

08:58 The stock market is going to go into a violent downward trend, not only here but around the world. The currencies of the world are gonna move in every direction and there's no predicting which ones will be standing when this is all over." It will spill into bond markets here and it'll be interesting to see what the Fed will do. He warned whatever the Fed did was not gonna be enough to solve any problem. When I asked him who told him this my boss said he talked to a buddy of his who happens to be an executive at JP Morgan I asked what triggers it and he said that the Chinese trust default is going to cause a domino effect which will spill into every market and every currency in the world. He also said this coming week we'll have volatile trading, and that this collapse is imminent within the next three weeks

09:41 Scary stuff guys. I of course don't know, but a lot of people have been talking about this for a long time They're kicking the can down the road Chickens gotta come home to roost or something like that But let's get to the heart of the show and talk with the king of collapse my man Michael C Rupert Folks, we know these are troubled times. Our society is about as stable as an elephant on a bowling ball and our great society is looking more like the worst sickness the earth has ever gotten We're worried about swine flu and bird flu while the earth has a bad case of human flu And who knows at this point if it can ever recover

10:20 But lucky for us, the doctor's in the house. Today's guest Michael Rupert has been tracking this human industrial disease for many years He's written two books Confronting Collapse and Crossing the Rubicon he is also a leading man in a popular expose most people here will know called Collapse as well as a subject of the new six-part documentary done by one my favorite media companies vice called apocalypse man he's called out the cia director for importing drugs in a courtroom on live tv here is the press spokesman for ross perot and expose the friendly fire killing a pat tillman he's the spitter of knowledge to be good of light in the tracker truth michael rupert how the hell are you no dear hopefully i'm i'm humble now thank you

11:00 It is a real honor. You've done some bold and powerful things in your life, and any one of those things is more than most people will ever do so you know you're redlining my respect meter man Thank you So-so very much it has been along Walk and and at this late late stage in my life. I just turned 63 yesterday. I am It's it's a little bit shocking after three-and-a-half decades of this work to To bask and enjoy and receive so much of the recognition that's coming my way now Of course, it's bittersweet given the circumstances that all of us two-legged find ourselves in right? Yeah me I'm glad to hear that you're getting more

11:46 more of that respect. Let's talk about the state of things a little bit, I mean i've been absorbing a lot of this information about collapse and peak oil and the massive economic crash for a long time now and there is always such an emphasis on how close we are to this disaster but they keep finding away to kick the can down the road but these fracking problems with the Fukushima fallout these things are really starting make me feel like we have already broken the earth man what do you think? Douglas Brinkman This is a realization that I came to in early 2012 as the result of Fukushima.

12:27 Based upon a multitude of peer-reviewed studies, all pointing the same direction that as a result of global warming climate chaos that human extinction was a certainty by 2030. Mathematical science and peer reviewed studies but we also have concomitant parallel problem of four hundred and fifty nuclear reactors that many of most of which are well past their service life to leaking their feeling for christina is not under control and we're still living in a world of of exponential growth the infinite growth paradigm or adding more than a quarter million new bodies to the planet today uh... and and and mother earth cannot sustain that and uh... it was it was very clear to me earlier two thousand twelve

13:13 that there was no way from a Cartesian-Newtonian 3D perspective to science our way out of this. That perspective has been reinforced and confirmed during the period of time when I moved from Northern California here to Southern Colorado in the Rockies with now 30 plus positive reinforcing feedback loops on global warming, Mm-hmm. and the still out of control issue at Fukushima. Within the last two months or so, I've had a really fundamental change in my position. We are in hospice as a species, as a planet human industrial civilization and more importantly, I think it's Terence McKenna might argue or Daniel Quinn might argue or Rupert Sheldrake or a lot of heroes might say that this culture is dying. It is the culture which has to die

14:12 because it is a meme which is now obviously and transparently suicidal. Yeah, that's a really good way to put it this culture does have to die I sometimes wonder how much of it and this kind of stems from my participation in Occupy which I know you were supporter of which is great to hear back in those days the The biggest problem was the lack of focus and I'd hear people talking about this solution or that solution. And a lot of them, I'm like you know that doesn't go far enough if we win this thing and Monsanto is still a company. Can we really have the change we need and still have corporations? Can we even still have money I mean those are big questions that i think need to be answered because for the long haul, I don't know that if we keep some of these structures in place the same people aren't just going to get their hooks right back into us.

15:04 It was in 2003 when I was publishing my newsletter from the wilderness. That's where we broke the Pat Tillman cover up and brought down Donald Rumsfeld. It was in 2003 as I was deep into peak oil a couple of years after 9-11, I had an epiphany which crystallized to until you change the way money works, you change nothing. And money is, in essence God. And that's one of the coolest jokes of this paradigm if you look at any piece of paper money which you can't eat and run a car off it doesn't represent anything real It says in god we trust and the coolest joke is that money has been and still for most people on the planet God Yeah! It is their religion

15:53 And with fiat currency, fractional reserve banking and compound interest it is by definition a pyramid scheme. And we know what happens to pyramid schemes the same way that we understand what happens to a species with unfettered growth, whether they be caribou or reindeer on an Arctic island or bacteria in a petri dish. You see this unfettered rocket ship hockey stick curve of population growth followed by a complete collapse and that is the point at which we find ourselves now

16:30 Well said, man. I actually sometimes wonder a lot of the things that we've been taught that are innate to human nature are actually products of our system. They say like the competition and dog-eat-dog world... Is that just because the only system we've ever known is this warped capitalistic crazy money hungry perpetual growth system or is it really part of nature? I think it's the system. If we don't evolve beyond the system of currency exchange, we'll never really be free because the monetary system gives us these warped incentives like planned obsolescence and consumerism and extreme waste. It really is hard to cooperate with people within this system of capitalism

17:14 Here, I pay great tribute to people like Daniel Quinn and Graham Hancock who is a friend that I have enormous respect for. First of all, it's an absolute lie! A paradigm is what you think about before you think about something, but if you automatically start your thinking... From a point of competition, dog eat dog is the truth. You are trapped in a lie already. Science has abundantly shown us and that's separate from the indigenous traditions which have persevered through all kinds of persecutions that it's not competition that governs nature its cooperation that governs nature

18:00 The species that survive are the ones who make themselves the most indispensable to all other species. That's the truth, that's the reality of it. The second most successful species on planet Earth today is the dog. Because it has cooperated and made itself useful and indispensable whereas on the other hand human behavior for let's say the last 10,000 years and there was a fundamental break in human history something something ethical something spiritual something archetypal whatever word you want to use happened to the human race between seven ten thousand years ago Daniel Quinn would call it totalitarian agriculture creating surplus but man moved into world governed by fear

18:55 rather than love, and a world that was hypnotized into believing in separation. That there's a difference between man and everything else, and whoever wrote the first chapter of Genesis calling man to go out and subdue the world, be fruitful, multiply, manage, have dominion That's the fundamental evil which has to be cured in human consciousness. This is a crisis of consciousness more than anything else before there is any hope or any possibility, and with every passing day that possibility diminishes, of our species and the web of life on this planet surviving 200-250 species a day go extinct

19:42 the web of life is being torn to shreds and mankind cannot exist out of that. From a Jungian perspective, I would say what's happening now is all the shadows that human race has not faced for 10 thousand years are coming home now to either be faced incorporated and healed or to kill us Yeah, man. It is scary times I definitely see that crossroads happening but you know a lot of people talk about this awakening and Then I see the Occupy movement get swatted down like a mosquito and that really crushed my spirits man But as a planet people seem to be fighting back more than ever It's it's really tough to know just because obviously there's a media blackout on this thing So it's really sometimes hard to know exactly what's going on and to get a good view of the landscape but I Assume that you think people are waking up, right?

20:34 Well, I am very much aware because Iím ever more in the public eye and my Facebook page is hugely active that yes an awakening is taking place all over the planet. There are millions perhaps even hundreds of millions of people. Even perhaps a billion out of seven who grasp that this current system is failing, it's destructive. Einstein says you can't solve the problem by using the same system that created the problem

21:13 I am very much encouraged, however from the Cartesian reality standpoint especially now that climate chaos is making itself so abundantly clear all over the planet. We are also running out of time options and solutions So this is indeed a prophetic time, and I would have to weave in here the fact that I've also studied many ancient prophecies of Native Americans and indigenous peoples around the world. And this also does seem to be a time when many of those prophecies are being fulfilled! Yeah, that's a trippy element to the whole thing too. And I mean obviously we just went through 2012 which was apparently... A lot of people thought that was going to be something and maybe in the grand scheme of things on a grand timeline maybe it was the start of something that hasn't manifested yet

22:03 The Mayans, and this is part of the lie that the meme human industrial civilization for 10 thousand years has systematically persecuted murdered massacred tortured all indigenous cultures it could find because let's say in Daniel Quinn's terms these were the people who did not participate in the great forgetting. I love Quinns' statement that Humans have been here for four million years, but in this world that we live in everything prior to 10 thousand years ago was just tied up in a bow called prehistoric and discarded. Well that's not true! Mankind lived on this planet successfully happily for hundreds of thousands at least years without war

22:54 Some of the great archaeological finds like Govekli Tepe in Turkey and many others show civilizations and large cities with monuments that were built 10, 12 15 thousand years ago in prehistory but there are no evidence of battlements. There's no evidence of war or warriors and in Native American tradition and some of the indigenous cultures they all talk about an old time when nobody knew what a warrior was because nobody knew what war was Yeah man it seems like too good to be true We're at the pinnacle of stupidity, I'm sorry.

23:46 I agree, man. You know, I actually love Apocalypse Man and you start the second portion of it talking about technology and how that is obviously how we're using our technology to destroy the planet but as a conspiracy show you know we have a lot of different guests...we cast a wide net and some of them talk about energy technologies that are suppressed or maybe even you know talking about the ancient world a lot of people talk about ancient societies having Technologies that were more in line with the earth Do you put stock in any of that have you seen any evidence to? Suggests it there could be a different way. That would also not may have us make these great sacrifices Yeah, but I think my explanation will probably open your eyes a bit. I'm ready first

24:31 First let's deal with this techno fix junk sure like I said in Part two the automobile was a techno fix because of the major cities in the u.s Were awash and horse manure Fracking is a techno-fix for shortages of natural gas. Nuclear power is a techno fix for shortage of electricity also, weapons and shale oil, tar sands. All these things are techno fixes and all theyíre doing is destroying anything so when people talk about suppressed technologiesÖ Again, thatís that paradigm trap. Theyíre talking about circuit switches and things like that. No, absolutely not! I can lock you in a bank vault with all the technology in the world and you will not be able to materialize a banana.

25:20 because the atoms aren't there and 7.2 billion people on the planet now is beyond the earth's carrying capacity which was a billion human beings, less than a billion or so for couple of hundred thousand years until we unleash the energy of fossil fuels and the industrial revolution. However, I said this on my radio show called The Lifeboat Hour on Progressive Radio Network every Sunday and I have said this very clearly that suppressed technologies are the spiritual technologies

26:02 carried by all of the indigenous peoples, the ones who refused to participate in the great forgetting. The ones who were not exterminated and I pay great tribute to all of the ancestors of all indigenous cultures who have gone through unspeakable hardships for hundreds and hundreds of generations to keep this wisdom intact. And I practice Native American spirituality I have seen these technologies work, but they have to do with prayers and frequencies and means and methods of energetically relating to all life. These are technologies that most people in the world wouldn't be able to identify or recognize although many more people are waking up to this.

26:52 this power now but it all comes from healing the fundamental belief that man is separate from the rest of the universe which is something for us to manipulate. We need to cooperate rather than compete with a physical world. I totally agree, I mean one big thing that skeptics point to, that say you know when I bring this stuff up or something like resource-based economy they said there aren't enough resources to go around and i say well you know I think that might just be a manipulation. Absolutely not! No we're running out of fresh water all over the world they are consuming freshwater tables destroying rivers for tar sands for fracking uh... for shale gas or so called tight oil in North Dakota

27:44 Our rivers and streams are polluted, the aquifers are polluted. It is absolutely foolish for anybody to believe that we're living in a world that's as full of resources as it was in 1400. That's nonsense! Well right but you know I know your in the third Zeitgeist movie their whole philosophy of resource-based economy is that we should share everything and in equal way and manage our resources not with monetary structure Bye. by dividing it to suit our needs, but you don't think there's enough to go around. So I mean that obviously wouldn't be a proper solution so what do you think we could as a global community to make things right? We can't and that is the fundamental point that were at. Solution... By definition again there is that paradigm trap about hearing the word solution. Give me a solution meaning put thing back in the way they were. It cannot be done!

28:42 It cannot be done. There are outcomes, not solutions at this point and I stand with Guy McPherson, Carolyn Baker and many people who understand that our species is in hospice there is no fix for this well you know again until you change the way money works you change nothing and nobody has ever changed the way money works right now that i fully agree that is uh... this does shackle on our ankle right there and and it is delusional at this point when we live in a world with a with governments especially united states government but are so absolutely completely corrupt venally corrupt it is foolish to believe

29:31 That governmental system or economic system is going to relieve itself and the Pollyannas who say, well positive thinking will solve everything. They are going to have, Terrence McKenna used the term it's gonna be a fire in a madhouse when he talked about the Eschaton and they're gonna face the fire in the madhouse there is a growing movement of people around the world who understand that human race has time on this planet is ending Species go extinct all the time. our most positive outcome? Well, first of all I and so many of us, so many great thinkers in here. I include all the names that I've mentioned before from Kennedy, Hancock, all of them do not believe that 3D Cartesian reality is anything more than a prison cell in which we have been imprisoned

30:37 So our liberation from that prison cell is at hand. I do not believe in the fact that when a human being dies, thatís the end of everything. Thatís the Jungian shadow and ego presenting itself and it is from that place of protecting and preserving the ego that all this carnage and horror has come. So, what is happening is that first of all there's a tremendous resurgence in an interest in indigenous spirituality. The ways that have been kept for tens of thousands of years because thatís the fundamental truth

31:21 It also has to do with things like reconciliation, making amends and the energetic spiritual attitude. For some reason a line from Shakespeare or Hamlet comes to mind, ìOh, I shall ratio there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophyî so Iím not trapped ñ most of us are not trapped in that place where weíre going That's the end of everything and we have to frantically blah, blah. We're living in a world that has been living that way until the credit line is exhausted.

32:03 But what I know from my own spiritual practice and also from experiences with ayahuasca, DMT and mushrooms is that there is a wonderful reality that exists outside our consciousness. That's why there is also a tremendous interest in DMT and ayahuasca now, a growing interest in that. I mean, I stand with Graham Hancock and Joe Rogan and Terrence McKenna on those pages because I've experienced it.

32:38 But I cannot offer you a solution that will do anything to restore our world like we knew in 2007, before the economic crash of 2008. They just used that as an arbitrary benchmark. That world is never ever coming back. I mean, the truth-I'd rather have the truth than uh you know some empty positive statements and yeah it seems like You might be right. I mean, a lot of people I've had on the show talk about mass extinctions like you're talking about and this might just be part of the cycle maybe we've gone through many of these before maybe were just in the middle another one well scientifically i think that's pretty clear carbon levels in the atmosphere haven't been this high in what four hundred thousand years and scientific data is very clear that when you get to

33:37 Carbon releases of this level, you can also reach a tipping point where the climate change suddenly comes overnight. Four to six degrees centigrade is cooked in. Humans cannot survive at two degree centigrade rise over baseline at the start of industrial civilization Itís not just because human beings canít adapt to a hotter temperature. No human being can survive the wet bulb temperatures, combination of humidity higher than 35 degrees centigrade but the problem is that the plants and animals cannot adapt and move fast enough in a totally unpredictable climate

34:19 When you see dramatic weather extremes, floods and droughts, monstrous heat waves like in Australia where it's been 130 degrees recently. This is only getting worse because at this point in time what we are experiencing In terms of weather changes, it's a result of the carbon that was released into the atmosphere 30 years ago. If we consider that and we consider that mankind has been releasing ever more carbon into the atmosphere every year since, especially since peak oil as we go to the more desperate means

34:55 and more people are on the planet, the worst is definitely yet to come. There's a quote from Guy MacPherson who says that the immediate future is not going to be anything like the recent past and that's exactly what we're experiencing now. to best just deal with this transition. I mean, see, I'm living in San Diego and I've been a house cat my whole life and my girlfriend and I have been talking more about trying to divorce the system and live off the land in some way but we're so uneducated in that area and I don't really have the money yet it's their only real alternative to being conventional and you're a real inspiration in that area man how would you advise people who want to make some type of change and kind of divorce the system they are stuck in?

35:44 Well, when we made the documentary Collapse which was released in September of 2009 it was fantastically well received. We almost got an Oscar nomination All the critics loved it It was a big hit I used the analogy about When a bear attacks a camp you don't have to be faster than the bear You just have to be faster than this lowest camper That no longer applies There is no place to run anymore quite global warming is global uh... and radiation leakages from fukushima and and other sources now we have leaking storage facilities at hanford that you know all over the there's a massive leaks of radiation into the atmosphere in fukushima is totally out of control we have been totally lied to about the radiation has not stopped being released now for almost three years three years next month

36:39 and that has traveled the northern hemisphere and saturated the northern hemisphere it's been falling out of rain and snow for three years to japanese are still incinerating tons a radioactive waste everyday capco is still pouring hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times every day radioactive water into the pacific ocean which is dying there is no place to run from radiation or climate collapse so running away if you will Permaculture, which I'm a great fan of and practiced in Northern California for awhile before moving here is based upon thoughtful and protracted observation. This means that you spend long enough time with the ecosystem and climate observing it so that you understand what the implication is then. That is a stable climate so your observations will have relevance.

37:30 well tell that to the people in uh... in the philippines who have four feet of rain and forty eight hours till dot two the people in in alaska and and near the world north pole where it has been twenty thirty degrees warmer in alaska at the north pole but it has been in chicago detroit colorado new york Tell that to the people in Great Britain where the Gulf Stream current has collapsed. There is no climate stability guaranteed now." And another very competent climate scientist, Paul Beckwith a professor at the University of Ottawa he's very eloquent on this and I had him on my radio show couple weeks ago and I made him repeat it He said both the frequency and intensity

38:17 of extreme weather events are going to increase by orders of magnitude. You cannot go say, I'm gonna take this patch of ground and find some clean water which radiation might be falling into now and i'm gonna make a stand to build myself a lifeboat. And this is, I think from the spiritual standpoint, a complete blessing for the human race because it is driving us back to a unity consciousness to make us all realize that there's no them, there is no us. We are all sharing the same crisis. And from that standpoint, I'll just say this real quickly...I spent 21 years in 12-step recovery to summarize what 12 step recovery says and almost all mystical paths say apart from a spiritual solution can i cuss? Absolutely please do! Apart from a spiritual solution we're fucked yeah well the I guess what's sad to me though is that

39:20 I get very hopeful about the prospect of people coming to this spiritual realization, going back to trying to form self-sustainable communities. Going back to the earth but it seems like you're saying that go ahead and do that but we're still all fucked! Yes, now here's the great question and I think this is so important. The question is energetically how we face whatís coming from what energetic We face this standpoint. I would agree with Guy McPherson that I donít see any possibility of saving the human race, but thereís a distinct possibility unpredictable from a Cartesian measurable computer program standpoint. Some humans may survive. There have been other mass extinctions of humans before, four sons as Hopi or Mayan would say.

40:15 When the human race reached a certain point and there was a wipeout, yet few survived. There's no way to calculate who that might be. But what's critical now is what our consciousness does as we face this, because I believe Terrence McKenna had a great line and I cannot thank him enough. When I lived in Northern California – I just lived about four miles from his house in Oxendale, California – and I was privileged to know many of his associates up there that was where I had my first exposure to DMT.

40:52 This all seemed to have been ordained, but what he said was this fire in the madhouse, this chaotic situation is the way it always is when a species gets ready to evolve and leave for the stars. In other words, it might not be death as in the end a blank black silent screen that's facing us. It might be a monstrously wonderful and beautiful evolution to higher dimensions and higher realms of consciousness but this is the way it always looks at the end. Right...it's just a matter perspective? And a matter of experience you know from my experience no only with

41:41 I have to say that these were always under very spiritually prepared. This is not a recreational thing that you do, there's prayer preparation and fasting and all of those medicines that the spirit gave to us in the form like and need to be respected. You can also do this from a non-drug perspective as well through the practice of spiritual principles, as we know from Alcoholics Anonymous or Gamblers Anonymous or Native American medicine ceremonies like a sweat lodge

42:21 even to a Ulepi where there are no drugs involved and yet you experience contact with this other realm. What McKenna said, for most people he said doing psychedelics or practicing spiritual principles is like doing calisthenics for the marathon into eternity He said most people will be most likely to perish or die from amazement once they realize all of the rest of the universe that we have been imprisoned and kept away from. Okay, well I guess then instead of focusing on the individual survival and Taking that type of path. How can someone who's facing some type of spiritual blockage? Help to clear that out outside of you know maybe if they can't participate in one of these rituals or psychedelics

43:15 How can they make a small step in that direction to start feeling something? That's a wonderful question. You know, that really is a good question and I tried to do that... excuse me approach that question on my own show last week with Christopher Wong who is a practitioner of Native American racism medicine here at Crestone and he's very dear friend and we were talking about that. The first stage that opens the door for this is the admission of complete defeat, surrender.

43:54 Once we begin to realize that the political system isn't going to do anything, the economic system isn't going to do anything but even more than that 3D Cartesian reality trying to deal with the whole universe as though it was measured by numbers and measurement controlled by numbers and measurement is what got us here. When individuals inside admit that buying a Prius or recycling or getting a bumper sticker is not going to solve the world's problems, once they admit that system is defeated then you are at a place of becoming what I would call teachable and open.

44:41 It's not about punishment. One of the greatest spiritual precepts I ever, ever learned was the concept of change without punishment – just let go of what didn't work! There is no need to beat yourself over the head or punish or shame or blame anything. Just stop participating. Iím not calling for 7 billion people to do something and that will cause the Federal Reserve. No, thatís the wrong approach. Itís all internal and itís all a matter of consciousness. There is now around the world a large enough community which you can find from my Facebook page links to much of it but you can go to Guy McPhersonís page or Nature Bat Flats or Carolyn Bakerís

45:24 She's my dear friend speaking truth to power. These are doorways to an ever-growing community of consciousness, spiritual not religious. Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell and spirituality is for those who have already been there. And so this a large community and it's evolving just like Occupy did extremely rapidly As I think back to Occupy, I was deeply involved in the Occupy Center just north of Oakland. We avoided major violence there and I was deeply involved in that but my experience with the Occupy movement is that in the camps

46:06 Consciousness was evolving so quickly that became the enemy. People were coming out of hypnosis so quickly that the imperative had to be shut down Occupy at all costs. Oh man, it was so warming. I totally agree and at the time that Occupy won't make it because it's got a list of 10 thousand demands that nobody can agree on. If Occupy had gotten to the point where we all said at the same time until you change the way money works, you change nothing because I think back to Occupy and what were the demands? Something about Glass-Steagall or something like this.

46:49 If we look back in retrospect, all of those demands are absolutely irrelevant today. So, had we reached that level of consciousness then Occupy was a wonderful event but trying to recreate Occupy now I think would be too far past that. A lot of the people listening to your broadcast and I believe you're heard all over the world are trying to survive brutal winter weather or big heat waves, and this is not even beginning to touch the cancers that are turning up not only all over Japan but also on the Pacific Coast. The fact that much of the Pacific Ocean is dead already � the Pacific sea floor,

47:43 off the Pacific coast of the US is littered with dead species. There are no anchovies, 100% of tested bluefin tuna tested positive for radiation because radiation bioaccumulates up to food chain, mackerel herring and the symptoms of radiation poisoning are all over. From this point, I guess I would come back to being a warrior. I spent my time as a cop and I spent a lot of time around warriors and I'm regarded as a warrior. Warriors understand that you fight best when you're certain that you're going

48:29 That's when evolution occurs, not until your backs are completely against the wall. Live by spiritual principles or die because it's alcoholic behavior and what to say of an alcoholic who walks into a doctor's office and the metaphor is he's hitting himself on the head with a hammer And he says to the doctor, geez it really hurts when I do this. The doctor says well stop hitting yourself in the head with a hammer but the alcoholic will walk out going oh there's gotta be another way. You know?

49:12 The thing you just touched on, the warrior fights best when they're facing certain death. When they know they're going to die I mean that is a theme that has come out and a lot of things that i really respect and appreciate. V for Vendetta is one my favorite movies it's weird that the mask has been used in recent years but I mean, even in that movie if you've seen it he locks Natalie Portman up and she goes through this whole thing where she's pretty sure she's going to die and then he frees her. She's like why the hell would you do that to me? And she is so pissed. She eventually comes back and she's like wow! That was a gift that most people never get and now I'm a real human being. Okay thank you. That was great. That was wonderful and that's exactly what starting to happen.

49:55 in so many places around the world right now with so many people. They are getting that, that is the gift that comes with this and many people are really starting to wake up to this realizing I mean 2030 is only 16 years away These numbers are certain. I strongly recommend that people go find Guy McPherson.com, NatureBats, Last of Science and 2040 Studies even conservative bodies like the IPCC have got it on the table right now, oil companies There are people who are getting it. I haven't participated in the 12-step recovery since 2004, but I did it for 21 years and 1 month and 13 days completely abstinent from everything. Now I take the psychedelics under supervised shamanic conditions.

50:56 But you get to a point and you have heard Native Americans say it is a good day to die. That means that you're free and living cleanly, clearly putting yourself in right relation with all things. You've gone back through your life and cleaned up stuff that maybe put off. You want to be in a right relation and loving relation so that you're free, you're not carrying a ton of baggage. But anybody who has ever gotten sober or experienced the power of spiritual practices changing your life will understand that what happens is I won't say solutions but options that were not visible

51:42 from the frame of mind that you had before become visible. They disclose themselves. Einstein and Carl Jung, who I have enormous respect for both said the same thing once you know there's a God it doesn't matter whether you believe in one or not and it's that experience of the spiritual reality, which is a universe that the human race has been systematically locked away from. Imprisoned if you will and George Orwell was so right we are in the keepers of the paradigm and meme our own jailkeepers in a jail without bars. And the idea is to step out of the jail which is an act of consciousness it's all inner work rather than outer work

52:34 Yeah, that seems to be the big evolution of the conspiracy movement. The conspiracy researchers every people I've been talking to is you know first You know you identify the problems and you're looking at the corruption and there's rebellion and struggle And then there's finally this spiritual acceptance, and I guess I'm a little young I'm not there yet. I'm still trying to fight this thing but You know Duncan Trussell is a great comedian. He's a friend of Joe Rogan's like he's on that show all the time I had Duncan trust Lee was the first guest of this year and he said something that has kind of stuck with me And he said if I was Satan my goal would be to convince people That if you change external factors, you'll fix internal problems

53:20 That's deep, but that is the essence of all 12-step programs. And 12-step has deep historical roots in metaphysics recognized by almost all spiritual traditions. The serenity prayer is universal. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference. When a spiritual awakening has occurred one realizes completely that you cannot change are the things outside of yourself and the only thing that can be changed are your own attitudes and consciousness

54:07 Yeah, it's funny how much of what we identify as reality starts with our perspective. It starts with where our mind is at. So yeah I totally agree. You know I grew up Catholic and I kind of resist anything that resembles religion and spirituality? I understand they're different things, but i guess i just have a hard time talking about it. It's just seems kind of outside of myself still." Well here is...here's a good way to look at that that will probably make sense to you. If you do the historical work—and this is where a great debtor are people like Graham Hancock—if you look at all of the persecutions

54:47 of the catholic church what they organized religion let's say since uh... since uh... since the god of abraham okay they have also systematically been directed to first catholic inquisition was not against muslims it was against Cathars, Bogomils, Manicheans, Gnostic Christians who preached and believed the unity of man with all life and a sacred relationship with Mother Earth. And if you do the historical work on that What you find is that's behind all of the genocides of indigenous peoples all over the world. It's to kill that consciousness, so... That's what religion has done! That's not what spirituality is or let's call it just a consciousness that is aware of the connectedness of all things in the web of life. It's the difference between cooperation and competition

55:50 Yeah, I mean you're right. You're right. I have looked into that a whole bunch and destroying that Gnostic tradition was so critical to gain control over the planet and getting us to the situation we are in now And that's why it continues ruthlessly until this day. Yeah, well man I love talking to you let's talk a little bit...I wanted to make sure we talked about that transition where you went from Northern California to Colorado what led you to leave that community because from my perspective watching you a few years ago i was like man that guy has got it right! You know? I want to go up and set up some kind of community like that were farming and sustainable all that stuff you know what leads you to to leave them

56:30 Well, you know I let me say I've never been happier than I was when I lived in the Sebastopol in West Sonoma County Because I too believe the same thing however. I Was in a place where my own evolution had come? I had founded a company called collapse net collapse network Yes But I was limited within the company that I created but by all the staff who were there who would built the company to not discussing anything spiritual I had absolutely reached a point where I couldn't deal with the world from reading news stories and trying to give answers from a 3D Cartesian political perspective. It was killing me!

57:12 The company was struggling and I had a couple of very profound spiritual experiences happen. A shaman from here in Colorado sent me medicine bundled to me out of the blue, which just kicked me in the butt! Through my own prayers, I realized that I had to let go of everything and went through a great dying as I left it. I fired myself from the company and gave it to the employees. I got rid of all my material possessions because I was broke. I had no money, and no place to go but I was willing to follow spirit that way. That's the kind of willingness you have before it pays off. So I lost everything! I have a band called New White Trash with my dear friend Doug Lewis in Venice. We've done two CDs at newwhitetrash.com if you're interested. And I had nowhere else to go!

58:04 He said, I've got to bet. And he happened to be in the San Luis Valley in southern Colorado on the west slope of the Rockies at 8100 feet and utterly remote and it's a pretty harsh climate here because I'm 24 miles outside of Creston but I arrived here in August 2012 with everything that I own including my dog Rags in a RAV4 and I'm still Essentially that way. So I arrived here ready to die, I was broken! I had let go of everything...I had believed that I had outlived my usefulness and I carried the ball as far as i could in all spiritual traditions have a concept at the death and rebirth, The Phoenix

58:44 What I found here was an amazing connection to Native American spirituality. It's been a crucible, and I'm going to be moving soon into the town of Crestone which is much more...I am on a very flat...even tough people won't live where I've lived for the last two years. I'm moving into Crestone, but what emerged out of that sense was that my radio show has become extremely popular all over the world. The Vice series is now coming out and there are other things in the work, but I have evolved There's always a dying of some kind involved with an evolution to a higher level of consciousness. That has been critical for me, and I won't leave here now. I'm going to move into more hospitable Crestones sheltered in the mountains, and it is a beautiful community but it still very remote where I am right now 24 miles from the closest store. I've been snowed in for six or seven days at a time this winter which has

59:49 So, there is always something after what you think the end is. And I think that's a tremendous message to carry. The end of human industrial civilization, I think, a lot of people now would get, is necessary. We cannot continue to add increasing amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. We can't run 450 nuclear power plants that we can't control. We can't provide 1 million years worth of safe storage. Mankind hasn't built a structure that lasted for 15 thousand years! Let alone a million, that's what we have to do with plutonium. So that needs to end but there is something after that and it is the sense of wonder and amazement and curiosity and courage I think are important for everybody to carry now even as we admit that were defeated in 3D Cartesian reality that is dying and proving to be false

1:00:40 Man, well I think that's an inspirational story. I'm glad you found happiness and came out on the other side of what seemed to be a pretty dark place I mean, what's great about you is that a lot of people respect and envy is that you're just a professional you. You don't have a boss or a dead-end job – you're free! That's the place where a lot of people want to get to even if it's for the short time we have left. Yeah, I do what I do for free. I get $800 some bucks a month from Social Security. I get maybe less than ten thousand dollars a year royalty from two books and a movie but people send me money because they love me and I do what I do out of love

1:01:17 And that's a completely different energetic relationship with the source of supply. I will not re-enter that old monetary paradigm for anything! Well, hey man. That's great and a lot of people can't say...and I didn't want to go into your whole back history because that is out there on the internet and people can get into that we only had a short hour and i'm so glad we got as deep as we did but not a lot of people can say they've had a real opportunity to sell out and have a cushy position in the system doing nefarious deeds and protecting criminals and you had that opportunity and said fuck that

1:01:55 And I think that is incredibly admirable. I wish I would be as strong as you if I was ever faced with such a situation, thanks for being here man! The opportunities are always there in any instant for anybody to honor themselves and live honorably forget about the past it's change without punishment and once you tune into that tuning fork the benefits come very quickly Right on well said Appreciate it, man. Hey enjoy your day Happy birthday Thank you and hopefully we can talk again if we're here long enough Hey listen We do this one day at a time breathe in and breathe out And I would be happy to meet with you all right man Thanks take care take care bye-bye

1:02:39 Wow, what a great guest people. I hope there's a way to correct the imbalances of the world without a massive human die-off but maybe there isn't Either way i love the guy check out the documentary Collapse if you haven't seen it and you'll have a good idea why Mike feels that we've passed the point of no return Also, check out the new Vice documentary series called Apocalypse Man. I think the 6th and final part is being released as we speak. You can find it on YouTube. Track Mike down on Twitter and Facebook and tell him it's gonna be okay! No don't do that...I'm just kidding Well that said, I've never been happier This is an exciting new chapter to life

1:03:16 In my whole history, like many of you a three month summer is the most freedom I've ever tasted at once and now it's just a blank slate from here on out except for this crazy show and whatever spins off of it. So all those podcasts that have been asking me to be a guest? Well now I'm available! Also more than ever people think about throwing down on the THC money bomb or picking up one of the conspirites at conspirites dot net I got a whole bunch of new designs. I'm very excited about printing now that i have the time The money bomb's almost at $500! And one of you is going to be getting half of that just for being the awesome you that you are. Can you hear it in my voice? I've never been happier! Follow your passions people, the internet connects us in ways we never imagined and I think the tide is turning towards small business and entrepreneurs away from big corporate monstrosities It's a beautiful thing maybe thats part of The Awakening Im telling ya people theres a whole world of folks out there waiting to help you achieve your dream they just need you put it out there

1:04:18 Your move. Little boy, I'm just a man! Dear civil servant Against this tyrant's gullight With our king Salvation he brings Protecting the city against all the truth Having said what the devil can This is the end I'm just a man My time is only in King City May he deliver us from this nightmare! No, the blasts like the sun His lips are unwrapped from the barrel of his gun Save our city Keep our souls Lord The rapture of this world

1:05:54 Fought and fell for our great king We burned alive and more The dragon wrathful calls we rise And march once more First in death, we starve For flesh, our skin Death will lead us in and smash them Save our sins

1:06:34 Keep our souls, Lord Through the rapture of this world Save our city Keep our souls alive Through the measure of what you've had The boy steps in his window And cries out from the lead Time to hate, time to fight Anything is right and what it's cost They will not take our souls It's time now to rise Save our souls alive

1:08:31 Oh, oh, oh