THC 44: Douglas Hawes | The Jeff Turner Diaries, Tuesday Weld’s Illuminati, & Buried Mysteries

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. But what F-30 and I do are different kind of fire. For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlowitz on The Hireside Chats How we doing higher side chatters? Drinking a little drink, smoking a little smoke. I'm Greg Carlwood from San Diego doing the damn thing with another new co-host and columnist here at THC, a long time friend of mine Jake Bender. Jake my man how are you? I'm doing wonderful how are you today? About 6 out 10 but it's not so bad No not bad at all

00:52 I love that you're doing this man. I think the world of conspiracy is a bit of a newer revelation for you and i haven't really asked You um what it was that really chapped your ass? What got you tumbling down this rabbit hole? Oh, actually listened to uh your show Uh, that was kind of the beginnings of it and uh kinda started open my eyes a little bit The first things were really chem trails comm trails things like that and just started spinning out of control from there. I don't know how I feel about chemtrails... I don't either! I, uh, I don't know if it's a legit thing or if its a bad thing. I don't know if it is just exhaust because when I drive a tractor trailer anytime it gets cold out I know how much exhaust comes out my pipes

01:33 And, you know with the jet engine it's so much bigger runs so much hotter. So much more fuel flowing through there and it's ten times colder up in the upper atmosphere. I don't know. I do not know. Yeah It is a weird one because it seems like...I guess my thought about it as if I was Henry Kissinger and I was going to poison the country with barium and aluminum and all kinds of little things through airplanes, it seems like it would be tough to insert that stuff into a plane without anyone working on planes knowing about. And then it just seems like it's so untargeted, like it's such a blanket thing. It's like you could be killing your own family, you know? Right exactly well and the things that are kind of red flags for me is I guess like the Monsanto their new patents on crops that are aluminum resistant

02:23 Well, I think like that that definitely raises a red flag. Like well Why the hell do you need an aluminum resistant plant if it's growing in fucking soil? So it just there's a lot of stuff there that it does raise red flags raised questions But there's no way of ever knowing for sure Yeah And that's this wonderful world of conspiracy theory You can't get truth anywhere. I was just talking to somebody the other day about the pharmaceutical industry, and I'm a big skeptic on vaccines but i don't know shit about medicine! So I've got a mutual friend, Hermo who's like a biology major and he's like dude you're very paranoid that you're actually doing harm and you're going to harm your kids by not getting them a vaccine...I'm like I don't know that

03:05 I know that the corruption in the medical field goes all the way down to education. The same people who are running this show also are on the board of these universities, and they're the ones putting out the education. They're giving an education that says vaccines are good, but you don't get your degree unless you agree that vaccines are good! I can't necessarily trust that doctor to really know what is in that vaccine and they're just taking it for granted that everybody gets a flu shot, because I read on the test that flu shots were good and they're good. So we got them out. Right! Absolutely. And you know, I actually kind of tested my own theory this year. I didn't get a flu shot last year. I didn't get the flu.

03:44 I did get the flu shot this year, but I still didn't get the flu. But I knew probably a dozen people right off top of my head that wound up getting the flu really bad this year actually know what got it died from it this year and not a single one of those people had the flu shot but then everybody have talked to that has the flu shot or all you know saying knock on wood I haven't had the flu yet because they got the flu shot is that in that you also have taken effect the whole placebo effect yeah no I got the police for flu shots so I'm But it's, I don't know. That's another one of those things where we'll never know. And then obviously the bigger vaccines for like children and things like that and... Well you have three kids so what do you-? I do! Like this is ... What have you done did you did you do the vaccines? I did our three year old We haven't done all the prekindergarten vaccines yet because well she's 3 So we got a couple years before she goes into kindergarten

04:40 But it's just easier to get them into the school system once they have the vaccines. Now, my wife her mom apparently just lied on all the paperwork and said she had had all the vaccines and she didn't. And I know my wife is perfectly fine without the vaccines but me being a person that held vaccines just the opposite you know i had all the vaccines in I'm fine so its I don't know It's just one of those things too where you know, where is the solid answers on either side? You know because there are so many people and even on mainstream media they talk about people with autism caused by you know These vaccines or else I can't remember which European country that was like Denmark or something or another Where there's I can't remember the actual number off top my head but like we'll just say 2500 kids or something that were given a

05:31 like a polio vaccine and all wound up getting narcolepsy? Fucked up. Yeah, is that definitely caused by whatever vaccine that was and was that vaccine just a fluke or... yeah that's the other thing is human error in making a batch of vaccines right well I mean just like that steroid vaccine that they had not vaccine but that steroid injection that they did over Was that Connecticut I think it was or New Hampshire and all those people we had all the facts straight here. Yeah, yeah This isn't where I thought one of those fucking places? Yeah one of those place on the east coast but uh you know all those people wound up with meningitis and All those people had some spinal

06:14 injection for a steroid and all wound up with meningitis. Right, it could just be an infected...an unsterilized needle? It could be all kinds of stuff! Are we throwing the baby out at the bathwater in terms of all these vaccines if you see a few cases going wrong? I'm not even close to being a parent but i can only imagine like that decision to me seems very looming. It's like, you know this is your kid's life but I also say i guess if there are people who are making it without the vaccine not getting the vaccine... Like you and your wife two examples one of you spent money on a potentially risky vaccine and one didn't and you're both in the same boat so I'd probably just spend less money right? And at the same time though with my kids we had them all vaccinated

07:05 Without even really thinking about it because it was just the thing to do and it was before this whole conspiracy Theory and waking up or whatever you have, you know Whatever you call it so it you know back then whenever we did having vaccinated It was just the doctor said, you know Here's the shots they need and we said okay You know do it. There wasn't even a there wasn't even two decision to be made in just mm-hmm. It was automatic Yeah Well then, I mean we're probably never gonna know but your reality bender column has been a pretty big hit. You're three pieces in and i really like the bohemian grove breakdown. You don't have to go much further than that to see some elite members of society performing some pretty weird rituals it clearly happens there are pictures you know

07:46 Oh absolutely and you know that one and the Builderbirds are both documented groups that all these elites definitely go to. I mean there's no question they go it, and then with Alex Jones sneaking into Bohemian Grove getting all those videos in that... And there is some weird shit going on in that place! World leaders burning a box that supposed to be you know, a symbol of burning the child. Of course they get a little camera shy when their throat fucking kids on a bloody altar but you can see regular people doing that too if you find the right websites. Right I try to stay off those websites or i guess you could say the wrong websites really it's fucked up there's plenty of stories of them doing that and

08:24 I don't know. Again, we're never really gonna know. Right Let's talk a little bit about your last piece the systematic destruction of the Bill of Rights A lot of people got fired up about that with you Do you care to elaborate on those writings at all or anything? No, I that's fine. Let's do it It's uh, I mean I was just I was in a pretty bad mood whenever I read all that and actually first read it on a conspiracy forum And anything I read on there? I always kind of take it with a grain of sand You know a grain of salt rather and you can use sand okay? Yeah about the same size I think over the green assault at first because I'd eat

09:03 I don't trust half the stuff that's on there. About 50% of that on those conspiracy forums is bullshit, just complete bullshit. Another we'll say 45%, is a giant stretch of truth and only about 5% has some sort legitimacy to it so I kind of waited...I read it you know I think it was Monday night or Sunday night I read about it and then the next day I wanted to finally get on ABC News and I was like oh shit okay this is real This did happen. This memo has been found and it's disgusting, man. I mean they're taking away every one of our rights in the Bill of Rights. It just going right down the line and it was all you know...

09:43 It all started basically with the Patriot Act in 2001. Was that October? It's an interesting thing, you got the people... I mean, I always attribute that kind of stuff to Alex Jones and Ron Paul and this libertarian movement. The idea that well we get these rights because some guys wrote it down a while ago and it's almost like there is a big part of the conspiracy community that wants to revert back to the good old days the rights that we all had. I go the other way, i kind of want to evolve beyond what we have and look forward but at the same time there's huge similarities in what those people want with what I want it just...I don't necessarily feel entitled because

10:26 somebody wrote it down a couple hundred years ago, I feel entitled to them because we only live once. Why isn't this like a giant playground? Why is it filled with such bullshit? Why are we spending 85% of our time on the planet manning a cash register or driving a truck around the country? It's embarrassing as a human being. Right, and I agree with a lot of things you're saying there but at the same time... The main thing that I agree with was evolving on that and we should take that in yeah evolve maybe That should be the basis though of what we do In order to make a living in order to have a house and things like that Thats just the way things go We have to be able to pay for it so were all going to get stuck with the job And honestly I don't know any other way to do it

11:11 I would inform you of one, but we really don't have time. Right? But we will get into that. You gotta watch the Light Geist Addendum! Oh, I know exactly what your talking about... The Pegasus Venus Project? Venus project man, that's how ya do it. Look at that. I knew exactly what you were talking about there, but no it's until that time though since we do have this bill of rights and they're just taking each one away from us and with this whole drone thing man it's scary! It really is scary Because if I posted on Facebook, Michelle Obama looks fat today. Bam! I could be a terrorist." It's just too much power and it also goes directly against what Obama was campaigning on. Well thank God they haven't touched the third amendment yet so we can still tell English soldiers no you cannot stay at my house

12:04 I'm dealing with that all goddamn day. Every time when it's on my door, I'm like nope we're still safe with that one we still got that get out in that manger Jesus but alright dude so it's about that time we're going to have a conversation with today's guest Douglas Hawes he's written a lot of pieces some of them co-authored by the pimp of pimps himself fellow cohost Adam go rightly and you got to comb through that and it's pretty interesting um a lot of it hinges on the

14:38 Here we go people! Today Jake and I are joined by an amazing researcher and author of some priceless nuggets a conspiracy gold, Douglas Hawes. He's written about occult secret societies in Hollywood in the rock music industry which have appeared in Paranormal Magazine as well as Feral House's Secret & Suppressed 2 band ideas and hidden history in the 21st century A more recent piece in The Underground Esoteric Journal Another Mirror at the End of the Road explores the strange world of military secret societies as seen through the eyes of an eccentric Santa Cruz-based conspiracy theorist, Jeffrey Dean Turner. A man who is at the center of a large portion of today's discussion. How are you today Doug? Doing great Greg! And we also have cohost Jake here. Jake say hello to Doug

15:24 Hello Doug. It's a real pleasure to talk to you, sir. Good to talk to you too Jake. All right well thanks for being here. Jake and I had a great time going over your articles most notably your lengthy piece entitled The Turner Diaries which told the world about the man Jeff Turner went deep into the information Jeff had relayed to you over the years which seems as good of place as any to get started give the people little background on who is Jeff Turner and how did you guys meet up? Well, Jeff Turner is this fellow who lives in Santa Cruz and he basically is this guy who has these fascinating stories and makes these incredible claims to anyone who will listen to him. But people quite often don't take him seriously because he's on SLC-1.

16:13 SSI for disability. And he also gets his daily meal at the St Francis Soup Kitchen and just lives this very rudimentary life of just going to the library, reading the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, going to the soup kitchen And then going back home to his apartment and just watching TV because he's a big TV hound. Now I first met Jeff in December of 1987 at a small messianic Jewish congregation in Santa Cruz, Samach Adonai

16:51 Basically right off the bat Jeff told me I am part of a team that's tracking the activities of a local cult priestess who is working directly with a known KGB agent and yeah, that's heavy. Yeah, yeah so for the next probably two years I was semi marginalized myself. I was just working as a dishwasher in a small local restaurant and had plenty of free time and so Jeff and I would just spend a lot of time hanging out meeting people. I'd meet some of his sources he met some of the people I knew and it was quite fascinating period from 87

17:38 1987 to around 1989-1990. Now what first we were talking about though was this cult priestess whose name – I'll just give her name as Christy, and a rival faction more mainstream and more powerful, led by Hollywood actress Tuesday Weld. And I barely knew who Tuesday Weld was. I'd seen her in a movie called Pretty Poison. I had seen her opposite of, I believe Nick Nolte in Who Will Stop the Rain? So I knew she was a Hollywood actress

18:15 But what Jeff claimed was that she was from a bloodline family of Druids going back into the hoary prehistory of basically Celtic and preceltic Ireland, Scotland and England. … ancient Britain. And so I started researching these claims. He also said that Tuesday Weld had a huge impact on the emergence of the rock and roll counterculture, and was referred to in numerous song lyrics. So I started listening. I was a big rock and roll kind of devotee, used to have a radio show playing classic rock and so I just started re-listening to all these songs and sure enough many songs had a Tuesday reference And it was very fascinating time, did lot of research It didn't go public in terms of getting in print until I hooked up with Adam Gowrightly

19:19 And it's actually Adam Gowrightly who initially broke this story in Steam Shovel Press. Later he invited me to co-write an article with him for Paranoia because he had the connections, and it was actually Adam's idea that we should go for an article on Tuesday Weld… for Paranoia magazine and I later tried to write a story about Christie, but the editors at Paranoia said this stuff is way too heavy. It's...and she's uh...this is not public information none of this is public information so unfortunately we'll have to decline to print this article which is called Christie Bitch Queen Of Terror. And um

20:06 So basically that's just a private edition. I just handed out the people once in awhile who? I feel like entrusted with the information and it is it is heavy I've read it myself, and I guess there's a pending investigation going on so it's always good to avoid things like that but the fact that there is some type of investigation also Raises an eyebrow to the validity of the information seems like hey there might be something here Yeah, well the thing about the Christie assertions is there are people that know about it locally in the Santa Cruz and South Bay area. And for instance I had a friend who knows people that are in law enforcement and he asked them to pursue this information and see if there's any truth to it. One of his contacts worked for the Santa Clara County Sheriff Department

20:58 And was a sheriff and came back a month later said, hey this stuff is all true. I don't know how this guy has access to this information but this isn't in-house investigation and it's been going on for years things like that. Yeah. And that does give credibility too you know Jeff Turner stories Yeah, yeah. So – but on the surface people basically see him as a harmless nut. They do see that he's transparently nice. He is a transparently nice guy. There is no guile about Jeff Turner. He doesn't deliberately lie but he kind of has that Asperger thing going where he distorts social reality and doesn't really get it sometimes.

21:48 But we've done a lot of stuff together when do you want to go into the documentary? Well, I didn't made about her the thing about the documentary is I didn't get to see it myself but I did see I watched some trailers and some clips that I could find and I felt like it really hurt Jeff's position because the documentary seems to be a Well, that's the thing. The young filmmakers there were Sean Donnelly and his friend childhood friend Jordi Cohen they also hooked up with this very first class professional cinematographer guy that Sean met while attending New York University Film School That's Phil Buccioletto he is responsible for the high quality of the cinematography He was a principal cameraman

22:52 and yet they're able on jeff was and the other person who is a tiffany superfan uh... kelly mccormick of denver is that these two people are lonely outcasts on the fringe to society and they have nothing going on in their life in their lives so when you have it meaningless empty list life you have to fill it up with dreams and fantasies so basically sociological study of what they perceive as new However, I have met Tiffany backstage. I've gone to a couple shows with Jeff and she doesn't disclose anything but…

23:34 It's obvious that it is not that kind of relationship. Whatever happened when Jeff got a lot of press back in 1988 and 1989, which is like well over 20 years ago now – and Tiffany was only 17 or 18 years old – that was long ago and it just isn't that kind of relationship now. There are some interesting stories, some interesting conspiracy tie-ins to Tiffany and I want to get there. But one thing I wanted to talk about with the Tuesday Weld story that I thought was really fascinating because a major interest to me right now is the Illuminati entertainment industry crossover and a major aspect of that being ritual sacrifices. If you look at some of the entertainers

24:20 that are suggested to be major players in secret societies, you'll usually find them associated somehow with a strange and sudden death. And it seems that Tuesday Weld is no different. Tell us about that story? Well the most remarkable claim that Jeff presented was basically Tuesday Weld is in this underground tradition, this Druidic bloodline where if you read some books on the welds they claim lineage going all the way back to the Irish kings of Tahara, you know long ago in ancient Irish history. So it's a bloodline family part of these bloodline families that from the British Isles they claim a Druidic lineage so what happens is Tuesday as a young woman starts demonstrating this precocious gifting and just like

25:13 paranormal powers some claims are that she was actually able to levitate and just she was gifted. And so the hidden hierarchy of the druidic leadership saw that she had the gifting, and so the claim Jeff says is when Tiffany I mean what Tuesday which is a mere 15 years old they tapped her out and said we're going to make you the next queen and high priestess of the Druidic orders Wow And supposedly the sacrificial rite that the Druidic leadership set up – I'm not saying Tuesday Weld set this up. I'm saying the backers set this up was they occultically made it so the plane carrying Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens and The Big Bopper crashed…

26:00 That was on February 3rd, 1959. And this was like the sacrificial rite inaugurating the reign as Drudic high priest, priestess of Tuesday Weld and that is commemorated...that story is supposedly commemorated in the number one hit from 1972 by Don McLean, American Pie. Jeff says that Don McLean and Tuesday Weld were lovers during that period he was penning So, he got it straight from her is the assertion that Jeff is making. And it's a fairly cryptic song but I listened to it just recently and the lyrics in the song are most telling to me are as the flames climb high into the night To light the sacrificial rite I saw Satan laughing with delight The day the music died That seems like it could be revealing

26:57 Yeah, it's very powerful circumstantial evidence. Jeff goes so far to say that they actually either sabotaged the plane or that the pilot of the plane turned around and – no somebody in the plane turned around and fired at the pilot in the head so he crashed. And I don't go there. I just say well occultically the plane was made to crash Jeff would say the same thing with the death of Jane Mansfield where supposedly she got on the bad side of Church Of Satan founder Anton LaVey. And so Anton Lavey cut a pair of scissors across her photo, and then she was beheaded in that tragic truck crash.

27:40 And Jeff says, well no Tuesday Weld was the one that was involved in supervising that occultic ritual to get rid of arch rival Jane Mansfield. So cultic murder by other means. Wow Now on that Don McLean thing, I mean back then nowadays you know everybody knows who every star is dating because of paparazzi and things like that. And everybody gives a shit for whatever reason. Then with this Don McLean thing has there been any evidence brought forth up to this point that they were in fact an item if you will?

28:20 That's the sort of stuff that maybe might have showed up in a tabloid article way back in 72, 71. But unless you cut those articles out and save them in a newspaper stack… It will just never know. … it's not going to be in a scholarly book anywhere. It's not going to be in The New York Times. But Jeff used to keep all that stuff, but he turned over his entire collection to Ken Galante the owner of the Silver Screen Hollywood shop in Manhattan back in sometime in the 80s late 80s early 90s.

28:58 Sorry Greg, I've seen a couple of other references to Tuesday Weldon in songs back in that era. Has Jeff ever talked about any other songs that he knows were written about her? Or are these just some internet fanatics rambling about like Ruby Tuesday from the Rolling Stones Hotel California from The Eagles and then a couple of Beatles songs actually I've read about being referenced to Tuesday Right, the most shocking one in terms of a Beatles song that seems to refer to Tuesday Weld is that horrific song I am the Walrus from The Magical Mystery Tour album. It is a very frightening song and it refers to a stupid bloody Tuesday and

29:46 pornographic priestess and this has these very Suggestive lyrics and also another one is she came in through the bathroom window I think it's from the white album has that line Tuesdays on its own with Monday Tuesdays on the phone to me That's right. Yeah Yeah, that right there shows there could be a possible influence. And it seems like especially in today if you get into the hip-hop artists that are apparently Illuminati members I could see a situation where sometimes they want to put out cryptic messages and it's an odd thing that they do but I can see someone coming

30:32 the Beatles and saying or Tuesday Weld coming to the Beatles and saying hey put me in this song and it'll be a hit because we have the resources to make it a number one hit not that you needed to do that for The Beatles but for other artists like I mean even American Pie. You could say hey pay tribute to this ritual, and this is going to go platinum Well, I think she was trying to further her agenda which was to be a dominant force in the rock and roll counterculture because if you think about it, you'll see a lot of films and a lot of images from television like this cultural war going on.

31:09 between like remnants of a puritanical Christian, Jeff Turner would call it culture of normalcy and conformity. And then there's the counterculture that is trying to overturn it and create a new paradigm and create sexual revolution. Tuesday Weld her druids were clearly trying to propel this social sexual revolution and rock n roll was their great venue for bringing about the cultural revolution. And in fact, it profoundly changed the culture of the entire world not just United States but Europe.

31:47 Remember how in the Soviet Union they would smuggle in the latest Who albums, Led Zeppelin albums? It was like you were a hero and the Soviet Union could smuggle into the youth culture the latest albums coming out of Britain or United States. So it was hugely successful social revolution and it won! The old guard of the old puritanical right is Clearly on the run it's been defeated. So they won, they won the culture war Yeah, the 60s seems like such an incredible time to me. I mean me and Jake are both in our late 20's so that is obviously before our time but I definitely feel philosophically in line with a lot of the things that I saw coming out then It is odd because what is the motivation there for the Druidic Illuminati? What was their goal in pushing that counterculture

32:49 Well, they want to be the dominant force in the world. They want their ways to triumph because you have to remember if you go back to that famous – I don't know if you're familiar with it but that famous 1960s movie The Viking Queen… It's actually should have been called the Druidic Queen because it is a story of the Romans in Britain at war with the druids and their great leader is this Druidic queen. Historically what happens is that Roman system won, then Roman Christianity and the old

33:37 pre-christian civilizations and religions were forced underground. They were most able to survive in Eastern Europe for a while, like in the Baltic area and in the Carpathians. They also survived underground in the British Isles, in particular Scotland and Ireland so They were forced underground, but they would like to regain power. I guess to me the thing about their philosophy... The counterculture philosophy seemed to be a freer idea like less authoritarian? I've always considered the Illuminati to be the ones who are pushing for stricter control you know controlling us

34:25 even through you know through the media and dumbing us down Taking the arts away from us and making us more worker drones But I guess Jeff his analysis is that that's a different faction. That's fighting with the Illuminati I guess he calls it The World Nazi Network Right yeah, he says there's two powerful factions this way constantly reiterated when I was I'm spending a lot of time with him in the late 80s and into the 90s, and even now is like this bitter factional battle between the Illuminati…

35:03 and its arch rival, the World Nazi Network or sometimes you would just call it international fascism. And then he would say there were people that actually were playing both sides of the game. A classic example would be George Bush who was both fully Illuminati and fully World Nazi Network – we're talking about the senior George Bush – and also another one would be Henry Kissinger And another one would be like Zbigniew Brzezinski, people that are playing both sides of the fence. They're part of what Jeff called the overlap. And he says this is actually known within the CIA that they actually use these terms. Because Jeff says he was a citizen volunteer, never was a paid member, never carried a card and never could flash a badge but he claimed to be as a citizen volunteer for the CIA because he got drawn into their efforts to track Christie because she had come to the attention of federal government because her people were trying to get access

36:08 high-tech and defense sector secrets in the Silicon Valley, which was like an epicenter for our defense industry. And I guess still is right but she's based in the South Bay and her she actually told asked demanded her people take a job here at Lockheed you know work here at you know get us information And it was part of her alliance with this, according to Jeff, known KGB asset. For instance she supposedly – according to Jeff – was running the Peter Coppola spy ring which was busted.

36:50 by the federal government back in, what was that? 1981. He was convicted of stealing trade secrets and they generally believed he was diverting those trade secrets to foreign governments in particular the Soviet Union Well Jeff says that Christie was running the Copal spy ring in Silicon Valley That was broken up in 1981 So this drew the attention of the federal government and Jeff got pulled in there and became kind of like a, what do you would call it? A snitch. A stool pigeon. Go on a bar, sit on a bar stool start getting a conversation going and then seeing what sort of information he can get and then sharing it to his people that were supposed to return that information too

37:41 Man, what an interesting position. It's all in the Turner Diaries story Right Well let's talk about some of the other Jeff Turner claims that are in that story Most people with an interest in the legends of military black ops programs are familiar with the stories of time travel experiments known as The Montauk Project But tell us about the lesser-known Operation Kronos and the Tiffany tie into this Well, what Jeff's assertions revolve around and he is the only one I've ever heard who has made these claims is that the Navy's time travel program which emerged out of the Philadelphia experiment in 1943. It became an official Navy program based at some sort of underground facility in the Montauk Point area of Long Island and it was called Phoenix Rainbow.

38:37 And people call it the Montauk Project, but that's not what it was called. It was called Phoenix Rainbow. So they had like a teleportation chair and they were sending people into interdimensional space and they were manipulating the timeline. And according to Jeff, they completely botched everything up. They had screwed up the timelines. It was a complete disaster. They had people lost in interdimensional time they couldn't retrieve. They didn't even know where they were. It was just a mess, so Jeff claims that in 1965 the US Army created a counter program called the Kronos Project and it was based at an underground facility in northern New Mexico on the Jicarilla Apache Reservation…

39:20 And that was called the Kronos Project, and that project was specifically set up to repair the damage to the timelines that Phoenix Rainbow had unleashed. And Jeff says there was this Christian general who was in charge of the program. And later on, when Tiffany who's from a family background that has military secret society connections, when she was emerging and showing her gifting she was basically drafted by this army general mentored and prepared for working in this program as well

40:02 So sometime in the, I don't know the 80s. the two programs were merged and became a separate federal agency called Operation Kronos. And the main facility is supposedly in Dulce, New Mexico but it has satellite facilities at various places around the world and it's a civilian agency. It's a separate federal agency. It's no longer under military direct military control Jeff's unique in this. This claim is, he's the only one that has presented these claims. Right and that does make it a little harder to swallow but can you elaborate at all on the damaging of the timeline? Like what did Jeff say went wrong?

40:55 Well, that's best if somebody reads the article because he explains it in his own words. And to me it's like a Matrix movie – is it reality or illusion? I don't even know what to make of it. It's like how can you possibly send people back in time and try to prevent World War II? Right, that is his claim. It's just unfathomable. I mean it doesn't make sense anyway, but this is the sort of stuff that Jeff claims was going on in the program certainly you can understand them trying to prevent unforeseen events in the future and like

41:35 going ahead seeing what somebody will end up doing and then going here in like making sure they don't get uh... that the you know the scholarship to harvard or something don't allow this guy to move ahead but what if brock obama them just joking your i'm just joking which are all of our mama actually becomes the antichrist yeah or something like it so they guys have guys go into future see what happens and they come back here and say don't let this guy get in our don't let this guy get this break disguise trouble But actually, as you know there's this guy out there who has yet another school of time travel claims and that's a fellow named Andrew Basiago. And Jeff and I talked with him at length at one of the UFO expos and we saw his presentation and he claims... He was part of a program designed to see what the effects of teleportation would be on children

42:36 And he was brought into it because his father worked for Parsons Corporation, the Pasadena-based international engineering firm that according to Basiago does high level CIA contracts and this sort of stuff where they actually might even build the jump rooms for time travel programs. That kind of thing. So his father brought him in it and he says that Later on he was brought back into the program and who was involved in it a young man named Barack Obama And I you've heard that story right, right? Yeah, but Barack Obama was drawn into it. I actually wrote a piece about Andy and uh It was not very nice and it started a huge internet like flame war between his camp and little old me and I

43:26 And man, I just take real issue with him because his presentation he talks about as a child and he's around 50 years old now but he talks about going into this program and he was like oh yeah George Bush was there Obama was there and I saw the future where Bush and Obama were both presidents. That is easy to say in 2011 but where were you in 1985? for shadowing the presidencies you know it's just seems like yeah it's very convenient that you have a lot of facts of things that are already happens

44:14 Yes, so he's the source of yet another school of time travel claims. And at least with Basiago we know that he is not a nutball whatever he is doing is either true or it's deliberate disinformation or just trying to make money because he actually isn't in state planning attorney and has state barred practice law in the State of Washington based I believe Vancouver Washington So you know he has a career He's a professional he's not a dumb guy, but it just seems really suspicious. And then when questions were raised about who is going to be the next president? He basically said that he saw a timeline where HE was the next president and I'm like okay... I mean... Yeah no, that was over-the-top!

45:05 Yeah, exactly. Did he say he was going to run 2016? Yeah, he did. He did. He must have been the leader of the disclosure movement which is you know of course the effort to get all this information out and release it to the public that's been in this whole black budget secret underground type of setting for like throughout the Cold War right up until today Yeah, I mean i would love it all to be true. But it just seems a bit far-fetched for me but back to the you know Jeff's Kronos story we were talking about songs that have cryptic messages about some of these events and there is a song by Neil Young that's apparently a tribute to the Kronos story can you tell us a bit about that?

45:54 Well, that's what Jeff claims and his most viable claim in that regard is that Neil Young is very close friends with the author of a screenplay called I believe After The Gold Rush which is Dean Stockwell. And Dean Stockwell was a Hollywood actor and he's also a master at this obscure form of fighting arts and he was on like I believe one of those shows like Battlestar Galactica or one of those, you know. He was like the lead actor and it's feasible to see Dean Stockwell as being one of these Hollywood people who has a dual life. He is both a Hollywood actor but he is also in the black budget community and he is actually a person who can gain access to these underground facilities and he is in that community

46:45 That would be my thesis on the Dean Stockwell-Neal Young after the Gold Rush connection. That again is in the Turner Diaries article. Jeff talks about that, I'll offer it for sale at the end of the show and give a sale box. Sure And that song you know most these claims about the songs I looked up the lyrics and there's interesting lyrics there It says look at mother nature on the run in the 1970s now if this program happened in the late 70s early 80s and man is working with forces that seem to trump nature, those words make sense. Look at Mother Nature on the run in the 1970s." And he repeats that line twice and the only other... well you know the next stanza of the line that gets repeated twice is I was thinking about what a friend had said and was hoping it was a lie You know if he had been told about this situation and it kind of spooked him a little bit, you know I could see that line being true too He also mentioned silver spaceships in this song which is an odd reference

47:47 Yeah, for Neil Young. Why does he write a song like this? It is a very unusual song. So really interesting... He's definitely known as the critical figure to look into And you can only really make, you know these things are supposed to be hidden. These things are not supposed to be talked about they're classified so... Absolutely yeah! You got a look at these loose connections and you know a skeptic can look at them and say well come on I need something more concrete and you just say well there isn't going to be anything more concrete that's the sad thing like me and Jake were talking in the beginning before we brought you in about

48:24 something as simple as the vaccine conspiracy. There's not any real trusted sources when there are people in power trying to be manipulative, what do you do? This is no different it's a huge problem in the conspiracy world but we like to sift through and have some fun with while we can. But also in our emails we had been talking about Jeff's references to Peter Moon, who has written several books on Montauk and the time travel angle. And we got to the subject of this recent discovery of an underground chamber in Romania—real wild story really interesting! Tell us about that a little bit?

49:05 First of all, let me give you a little bit of background on Jeff Reher and Peter Moon. Starting in the 1990s, Jeff was no longer talking about the Christie and Tuesday Weld stuff as much. He started talking about a lot about time travel programs and the montauk project in operation chronos how tiffany was saving the world and all these things and now all these great things were happening uh... and chrono since doing is wonderful thanks and he made sure that um... santa cruz's sub premier new age bookstore at that time gateway books constantly have all the montauk books in stock

49:49 And so – well, I didn't even know what this Montauk thing was. So basically what it was is you have this editor and publisher of sky books based in Long Island. His name is Peter Moon. And Peter Moon knows all these guys who claim they were part of this Montauk project. Some are published and some are not published The most famous one that he published is probably Preston B Nichols, who claims he was the principal electrical engineer at the Montauk facility working on the hardware making sure all the wiring was done

50:24 Okay, and another one was Stuart Swerdlal who claims he was from an early age brought into the Montauk program. And he was involved in its teleportation programs. And Swerdla focuses on the alien connection. He claims that when they did the Montauk project one of the problems at opening up the time portals did is it allowed interdimensional beings to enter our world And it allowed aliens unprecedented access from other dimensions into our world, and it caused a lot of problems that way. So there's Stuart Swerdlow. Then there is this other fellow who I don't think was published by Peter Moon. His name is Al Belick.

51:12 who recently passed away a few years ago. And then let's see, there is also this guy that hasn't been published he is also very interesting his name is Jimmy Abiotello and he has a very interesting story but I don't think it was published and at the very center of it is the guy who supposedly was the man in the chair that all this was channeled through and that's a guy named I believe Duncan Cameron And he lives a sheltered life on Crab Tree Island off the coast of Long Island. And Jimmy Abietello says that if anybody tries to contact Duncan Cameron or tries to have any impact on him, they're going to have a lot of trouble because there are people that do not want Duncan Cameron messed with because all the timelines depend on him. They all are channeled through him because he was the man in the chair at Montauk.

52:09 So anyway, Jeff always made sure that the Montauk books that Peter Moon and his Sky Books was publishing were in stock at Gateway. And he was always talking about the teleportation and Kronos and how Montauk had messed things up. So anyway I actually went and visited Peter Moon. I was in New York City for my niece's graduation from New York University and I called up Peter Moon and he said, come on down. We'll have the monthly house meeting

52:45 And so what I did is, I called the filmmaker of the movie on the Turner – Tiffany's Superstalkers. Sean Donnelly, I called him because he was in New York and said hey let's go down to Peter Moon. He actually has some – he knows who Jeff Turner is and you can interview him. So, Sean and I jumped on the Long Island Railroad train. We went out to Huntington and we went out to Peter Moon's house and he had his house meeting And there were a couple people there that claimed to have Montauk ties... ...and thats where i met Jibby Abiotello. And then right after the meeting was over, uh..Sean took Peter in the back room and they filmed an interview. So ummm Then this is where it gets weird

53:38 I kept in touch with Peter Moon mainly by phone and email. We'd talk about Jeff Turner, and Jeff would say my good friend Peter Moon, my good friend Preston B Nichols, and then you call up Peter Moon and who's this Jeff Turner guy? I mean, I remember him used to call and tell the stuff about Tiffany, he's quite a character isn't he? And I'm thinking about what Jeff had told me, you know, my friend Peter Moon, that's a disconnect So anyway, I'm talking with Peter after the filming. This is probably around 2007-2006 and he says, I can't talk. I am really busy. I got this new transcript and need to get it out. And I need edited. I'm in touch with these contacts in Romania. I need to finish this. Well the book he was feverishly working on is called Transylvanian Sunrise

54:32 And it came out just a few years ago. It's actually written by a Romanian guy, Radu Sinimar and it is roughly translated into English. It was done in Romania you can just tell by the writing and then Peter Moon published at United States and he did an introduction and editing and he did an epilogue so its under the Sky Books perimeter And basically the book claims that deep penetration satellite technology that NASA has, the new generation of deep penetration satellite technology spotted a man-made chamber deep in the Carpathian Mountains of Romania around 2003. They knew it was man made because they could tell that the chamber was perfectly square

55:27 deep inside the Carpathians. Whatever this chamber was, it was perfectly square. So it's a man-made cavern They approached the Romanian government and Sinamar claims this was done through the highest levels of Freemasonry. Basically an Italian nobleman who's a member of the Bilderbergers, and also a high-level Freemason – I would suspect a knight of Malta knight went to Romania the director of Department Zero of Romanian Military Intelligence. Department Zero is basically the psychological operations paranormal research division of Romanian intelligence which was developed in the Ceaușescu years in cooperation with China, the Chinese

56:21 And it was their attempt to have the same stuff they knew that the Russians, the Soviets and United States were working on. This paranormal war sort of stuff. So the Romanians decided they had their own program because they were like a maverick during the Cold War years among Warsaw Pact nations. So anyway, the leader of Department Zero was this Romanian fellow who at early on showed remarkable clairvoyant gifts So Department Zero had taken him away from his family, like when he was only nine years old or ten and put him in this program and worked on him to get his psychic arts to the highest level through training – through techniques, discipline, all this training. So he ultimately became the leader of Department Zero

57:13 And this high-level Italian nobleman approached him and said, This information is not to be disclosed. We are going to have oversight over this." The Romanians wanted to go public with it. They thought it would be good for the world and they were vetoed by our Pentagon this high-level Masonic elite. So how does this fit into Peter Moon other than he published the book in the United States? Well, there's this fellow named David Lewis Anderson. David Lewis Anderson is a physicist He worked on military contracts for like the Air Force back in the 70s at Edwards Air Force Base

58:03 And later on he started getting into questions of space-time continuum research. He became fascinated by the space-time continuum potential, and he started attending Peter Moon's house meetings in Long Island in the 90s or early 90s, late 80s… he david lewis anderson leader formed international corporation uh... to explore the potential of space time continuum applications for biomedical purposes so they get funding from uh... medical corporations to see if this can have applications for tissue preservation for transplants in this kind of thing how can we preserve tissues through this spacetime

58:54 So he had a facility in New Mexico. They had one in Long Island, and they had one in Romania where some of the world's best mathematicians are based in Romania… … and they can work for you on the cheap because the wage scale is so low in Romania. Well, the Long Island facility was closed down by the federal government but supposedly the one in New Mexico and the one in Romania were built by the same person who built it. still are operating. So what happens is, David Louis Anderson loses touch with Peter Moon and then out of the blue like seven eight nine years later he contacts Peter Moon and says would you like to come to Romania? There are very interesting developments going on in Romania I will invite you over here i have connections with people in the government

59:49 And there's this annual conference for cutting-edge thinkers and artists and scholars. It is called the Atlanticron Conference. It is held for the youth, it is held on an island in the Danube River, and we draw in the best of the cutting edge artists, thinkers, scholars, scientists. So Peter Moon has been to Romania at Anderson's invitation and he spoke at the Atlanticron Conference He's also gotten to go up in the Carpathian Mountains. Actually, the part of it is the Bocegi Mountains where the chamber is located and he has some of this photography of what's called the Romanian Spring... excuse me, the Romanian Sphinx, this weird rock formation that is basically in a vicinity of the underground chamber. And what are the details of what they've found in that chamber?

1:00:46 Well, supposedly advanced teams under the supervision of the Pentagon like people with tunneling expertise or like your Navy CB types but they do tunneling and stuff have excavated down to the chamber and it has been entered. And it supposedly has a holographic hall records there's mysterious underground tunnels that go deep into the earth one of them supposedly goes to the Giza Plateau underneath The Great Pyramid They claim the other one goes towards the plateau of Tibet. And that is a fascinating claim, what exactly is a holographic hall of records?

1:01:25 God, I don't know. Have you ever heard of that book Cave of the Ancients written by...I think his name was Lomp-Song Gupta or something like this? It's a novel but it talks about these people that stumble across this ancient chamber with ancient machinery and holographic records high in the mountains of Tibet and the chamber was left there by the Atlanteans civilization that was here on the earth before the time of the flood and it's similar to that because this chamber is supposedly 30,000 years old right and now one thing that I had heard in looking into this because i thought we might talk about it as a Peter Moon our interview he talks about it has a it's almost like universal Noah's Ark and that

1:02:19 It can show you like a star map of different species and where they would come from. Is that wild? That is the wildest thing I've probably ever heard, and i would die to get in there! I would love to get in there and view that. Even the suggestion that there's obviously in the conspiracy community, there's a suggestion that aliens are visiting us working with us this and that but Something like that man if we could just get some pictures or video of that and especially in today's world Like let's get an iPhone out there Man seems pretty wild stuff And this is just like one of many many such things that are under wraps around the world like credible technologies ancient objects, there's ancient objects in existence that are like carefully guarded and You know they're just kept under wraps

1:03:16 and just all sorts of mysteries. And that kind of brings me to the last thing I wanted to talk about, or you know kinda one of the last things I want to talk about. We are getting close to it here You wrote a piece called The Mystery at Snakehead Point which really got me going because sometimes I feel that there are very few great discoveries left to be made It seems like most mysterious sites or buried ancient technologies have been quarantined by governments and placed

1:03:58 Bases on them, but tell me about the snakehead point lore it seems to be from your writing a fairly open area still well It's hardly known by anyone. I even went up to the Area of this supposed underground ancient site and The locals are not even aware about it except just a small handful And basically what it is is there supposedly a buried pyramid in the gorge of the North Fork of the American River, not too far from Colfax. Sort of like east-northeast of Sacramento and the location is called Snakehead Point and I've been there several times

1:04:46 I was told about it by a new age teacher, the late Harold Freeman. A very interesting figure that was part of the circle of people that... You know, I met him and introduced him to Jeff Turner and then there were these weird dynamics going on in Santa Cruz from 87-89-90 and Harold Freeman with one of these fellows who had connections. He had connections with high-level Rosicrucians and Freemasons, he was also a figure in the early stage of the Contactee Movement

1:05:25 He was a chapter leader of the understanding organization that Mr. Fry started. He was, of course, a famous and slightly controversial early contact he would claim to have been visited by UFO or traveled on a UFO. So Harold Freeman told me about Snakehead Point. He said that he had received transmissions from I guess the space brothers who'd told him – this is way back in like 61, 62 – to go up to this place… in the mother load and that there was an ancient PowerPoint down there. And of course he did, and he took a whole series of people up there over the years including very capable clairvoyants and psychics… …and they confirmed that there's something up there. You can't get inside the mountain because you'd have to excavate it.

1:06:23 big tunnels into it, so you can't really see what's inside the mountain. However supposedly strange metallic orbs were taken out of it when by Chinese hard rock miners and there is supposedly some person in a nearby town of volcano that has these strange metallic orbs in his possession So anyway It's both a pyramid that supposedly was built like hundreds of thousands of years ago by extraterrestrials, and even now it is a beacon where if some craft is flying from another part or quadrant in our galaxy when it arrives it can beam on this pyramid and allows to kind of navigate itself into the magnetic field of the Earth.

1:07:17 And it's also a takeoff point where they can be revolving around the magnetic field of the Earth and then they can use this as a beacon to know when to exit our magnetic field and leave this planet. But, the thing is it's also an initiation center and there are supposedly chambers built into the pyramid which are initiatory chambers almost like an ancient mystic temple And these are all the claims that Harold Freeman made. However, years later I found out that there was another early contactee figure who claimed that he was revealed that Snakehead Point was a PowerPoint and somebody connected to George Van Tassel. I don't have his name here on my finger however… No. Wallace Osley? Yeah, I think so.

1:08:14 Yeah, Wallace Halsley the thing I found interesting about that is that it says in the article just briefly But he's he was on the circuit giving his lectures about The ET experience and the contactee experience and he mysteriously disappeared. Oh yeah. Yeah It's plane crash in happened in March of 1963 they still haven't found the plane somewhere out there in the remote rugged mountain areas of Nevada or Utah or something like that is what I always look for in determining if there's credibility to something, you know call it a stretch But that's what I look for because if you're trying to keep something quiet and someone's talking You know, you're gonna shut them up. If they're off on the lecture circuit going on Stephen Colbert like Andy Basiago and They're allowed to get on Colbert then maybe what they're saying isn't so right but this

1:09:10 The fact that he went down in a plane crash, I mean that to me raises a serious eyebrow. You went to this area yourself and had a pretty personal experience right? Oh yeah! Yeah i was fasting and uh... I had a couple visionary experiences that confirmed for me Harold Freeman's claims Now are you do you do a lot of meditation and that kind of thing Not so much now. I used to do a lot of prayer and meditation, but the workday world is really grinding away these days. Amen!

1:09:48 And I don't have the time for that, the deep spirituality these days unfortunately. Because that's what has me curious because I do...I have a really hard time meditating and I can't say that I've ever accomplished it. I don't even necessarily know what i'm trying to accomplish but uh The idea of astral projection is super fascinating to me. I would love to have that type of experience And that's why I ask if you are trained in this, because I'm wondering if this area near Snakehead Point can induce such a situation to someone who doesn't have a lot of background in it. Because I would be willing to get up there to Sacramento and sit on a rock and get out of my body

1:10:31 Yeah, what you do is there's this rock platform left over from the gold rush days when it was – there was like a tent city of miners down there way back in like 1860s or 1850s or long time ago. And they built this tent city and there was this big rock platform and you can still camp on this platform. Well if you camped there it's right opposite the face of the pyramid on the other side In the middle of night, you'll feel something tugging at your body and it's like something is trying to pull you out and make you astral project. And if you give into it, it will take your body in the initiatory tour of the temple inside that pyramid. That's amazing! I fought it off. I didn't feel good about it so I resisted the tugging but if I'd gone with a flow, I probably would have just float around that pyramid. Yeah...

1:11:26 kind of counterproductive to get all the way there and then to resist such an experience. Yeah, well that was like my second trip My first trip was the one where I did meditation And prayer and I was actually shown things but i didn't astral project Man...I Jake what do you think? Are we going to Sacramento soon? I'm game! I'm definitely up for it That sounds amazing Right I don't know if I could resist something like that though because your mind would just wander Like what the hell is in there I know the curiosity man, uh i would love to. I mean obviously an excavation is a little bit of an undertaking but man! I mean that could be if we quit our jobs and gamble on this we could go down there and dig something up and that'd be it for the rest of our lives we'd be those guys. I have talked my wife first

1:12:15 It'd be bitterly cold and you definitely want to forward the north fork. And you've got to wait until well into the summer after this snow melt is over, and you want the waters to warm up from the high Sierras so I would hold off till well into August before we go to Snakehead Point Another interesting point about Snakehead Point, considering the point I made about military bases being put there and these kind of things are usually sealed off. There was an attempt-a political attempt to build a dam there which would have sealed the area underwater And the only reason it didn't go through, according to the article is that there's a fault line there and the fault line halted construction. So there's another point that raises an eyebrow to me that they were attempting to do something to like kind of seal it away from people but it didn't happen obviously because of the fault line but that...that's an interesting little tidbit about the area too

1:13:11 Well, the dam made sense because Sacramento is always perilously at risk of having a catastrophic flood and you'd want to control the American River during a flood. But you're right it was lucky for us that they discovered an earthquake fault just as they were finally laying out the final design work for the dam I guess and put it on hold and its never been brought back since Well if you see yourself any time in the future going there, let me know. It is not far I'll get the camera You know we'll get some audience members We'll get an excavation group up there We will all get shovels and spades And try to find some metallic orbs

1:13:55 Well, let me mention that article is called A Mystery of Snakehead Point An Ancient Power Center and that's on the website of The League Western 14 Intermediates or Lo-Fi. And their website is www.14swes.com But it's an archived guest editorial It's probably like five or six back in a few And there, I guess the one other thing I wanted to touch on if you got the time is on the subject of hidden secrets and buried treasures right here in the States. You mentioned to me in an email a few stories about a lost treasure in Utah near the Grand Canyon Montezuma's treasure but we didn't really discuss that then that really sparked my curiosity what is that supposed to be about?

1:14:51 Well, I first should mention that I've been fascinated by the whole… US-Mexico relations, you know the whole like US Mexican War. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo more recent Chicano nationalism, you know the history of like the Aslan movement, Mecha and you know the whole thing about There's like this current within Chicano culture of like, this is our original homeland. This is Aslan

1:15:32 Well, this stuff directly touches on that. And the reason I stumbled upon it – I had heard there's stuff regarding the town of Conob, Utah being a potential place where the Mexica – we call them the Aztecs – emerged and then traveled south and I hear about that in works, the works of two Chicano scholars and I can't remember his name off the top of my head but they put out a documentary called Going Back to Where We Came From. And it covers this but more recently this is the real breakthrough

1:16:16 There's this family, the Dilman family and they're treasure hunters. They're indigenous Cherokee Mexican mixed ancestry and one of the patriarchs of the family was a partially blind man who had clairvoyant giftings and he was determined treasure hunter and following old leads he decided that the lost Montezuma Treasure was in this particular mountain just outside of Knob, Utah. So that story of their efforts to find the lost Montezuma's treasure came out in a documentary released by Exalt Media – that is Dan Gilman's media group based in San Leandro and it is called Secrets Of The Stone Tablets In Search Of Montezuma's Treasure

1:17:04 And it's available on Amazon. You can order it online So I went to Kanab, Utah several years ago because I wanted to track this down myself made Dan mad a little bit He was like Doug you trying to move in on my territory here man and who are you talking to? And come up? I Went to the place called the Moki cave and I talked to this Mormon elder And he knew all about it, and I bought from his gift shop this locally produced book by a Knob resident Vicki Huntington Hooper.

1:17:41 called Quest Beyond Our Reach, Stories of Lost Treasures. Lost minds and the mysteries that surround them and this book has all the old local stories about Aztec treasures and about Dan Dillman and his family. Freddy Crystal, the guy who wrote in The Town in 1900 he had a map that he found at a monastery in Mexico and said the Aztec treasure is on that mountain according to the map And the story is they murdered him. The locals murdered him because he let them down, he made them all work digging out the tunnels and then he didn't pay them and couldn't find it and then they got so mad at him that somebody killed him

1:18:28 I would love to get some people together and get a little camera crew, and make a little film about going to find some treasure. That...I would love the Indiana Jones that shit! That's on the top of my list of things to do without a 9-5 job Well, my theory is some of the treasure has already been found. It's controlled by – it's in the possession of our federal government. It's probably in Fort Knox and some shipping crates and they're using as part of the bargaining of NAFTA bringing Mexico and Canada into the NAFTA North American Union or whatever you want to call it as part of the bartering. And the reason they found

1:19:13 was because when they built, I believe it's Lake Powell near Kanaab in the 1930s. They scoured the area and they had already heard reports that there were treasure caves And one of those caves is located on the side of the Grand Canyon. It's directly up from the Colorado River, like on a cliff and it's probably underwater now but they completely cleared out everything that was in there and it's now under possession of the federal government. Of course! That cavern which was found by early miners … is one of the most fascinating stories in Vicki Huntington Hooper's book, Quest Beyond Our Reach. That is an unbelievable story. It doesn't talk about my theory about the fed getting the treasure but it does talk about the existence of this treasure cave with – basically the theory is that…

1:20:13 Cortez came into Mexico City in I believe 1518, and he was a guest of the Emperor Montezuma. And then they had to flee the city because things did not – there was like an uprising against them, and they had to flee the city. The night of sadness or the night of sorrows – I forget the name but a lot of the Aztecs – excuse me, of the Spanish in Cortes' party drowned trying to get out of the city But then they came back three years later and they conquered the city in 1521 with Cuauhtémoc as the Mexica emperor. So anyway, in 1518 after the Spanish were kicked out…

1:20:59 The Mexica said, these guys lust after our gold. We've got to hide this gold. So everybody in the historical community knows that somewhere the Aztecs hid their gold. They got it out and they hid it. Nobody knows where it ended up. This documentary and this book suggest that they ran it to their ancestral homeland in southern Utah near the Escalante National Monument somewhere in that area is where they hid their treasure Man, Jake do you have any thoughts on this hidden treasure stuff? Well I mean are they planning on any new excavations there or anything like that. With any excavation you have to get permits normally it's news before its an actual excavation Is there anything going on there? Is there anything new going at all

1:21:54 Dan Dillman's holding his cards close to his chest like a poker player. He says he's working on a follow-up documentary and I have, he has told me other stuff that I don't feel I should disclose but there's still stuff going on. That's always good that's very cool Oh, by the way we talked about Christie. This is a weird angle. One of the remnant groups of The Process Church Of The Final Judgment which Christie was supposedly a powerful figure in when it broke up into several factions she took over supposedly one of the factions according to Jeff

1:22:35 Well, one of the surviving process groups went to Kanab Utah and they started an animal sanctuary which has become one of the best known animal sanctuaries in the world. And it's called Best Friends and it's located just outside of Kanab Utah so there is a weird tie-in I visited there when I went to Kanab several years ago Went to the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary but was started by The Process Church Man! It's all connected um, but yeah that pretty much does it. That brings us a little bit past an hour thanks for sticking with me but it has been a serious blast we've covered a lot of ground from Tuesday Wells role as high priestess to time travel ops to the great Montezuma treasure hunt of 2013

1:23:22 I've loved every minute of it. I hope the listeners did as well, I could give a fuck about Jake here... I'm just messing with you but uh Doug tell the people how they can get ahold of some of these pieces You've written because a lot of them are not online Okay, well let me first mention that we have a PO Box and you can write myself or Jeff Turner care of Secret History. P O Box 1251 San Jose California 95108-1251

1:23:58 It can also be reached by email at dhawes2002.com, that's D-H-A-W-E-S 2002. I am offering for sale reprints of the Paranoia article on Tuesday Weld which appeared in the spring 2008 issue. Paranoia is no longer in business and So it's no longer available this particular issue, but I'll send you a reprint if you send me check money order or cash for $2 I'll get I'll send you him a reprint to I'm not willing to offer that Christy

1:24:38 That's a private edition. Secret and Suppressed 2, Banned Ideas and Hidden History into the 21st Century is a Ferrell House book and it is currently in print and that has a very indepth article by Adam Gowrightly I helped write that about Tuesday Weldon, Jeff Turner and all those claims. It was very worth tracking down And finally, I will send a copy of another mirror at the end of the road. The Turner Diaries, send me $6 for that because it's much more expensive and difficult to reproduce and has color photography. Send $6 if you want a copy of that special issue, The Turner Diaries.

1:25:21 And that's it. Wow, and what is Jeff up to now? You did mention to me that he's involved as a voice in an Adult Swim cartoon Well let me get going into that very briefly first of all I think we're alone now the documentary about Tiffany super stalkers I appear in that movie as well Is available you can get it through Amazon It's even available on Netflix It has a distributor now, so you can buy it or you can rent it. In terms of what Jeff is doing right now he just got back from Hollywood and did yet another studio session before the camera and this is an adult swim show that's slated to appear sometime in the next few months hopefully as part of their official lineup

1:26:12 And the show is called Hot Package. It's a Beckles production, he is famous for Rock Carnage and Jeff is just a cast of many characters in a spoof of an Access Hollywood It's basically supposedly a Canadian Hollywood celebrity show in the vein of Access Hollywood. But it is a spoof and it will be on hopefully Adult Swim Network late night sometime in the next few months. right

1:27:03 It's about time we get going, Doug. I really appreciate your time and the work you've done if maybe we could have you on again possibly if you could get Jeff Turner or Peter Moon even those would be interesting people to talk too but You know, you've done some great work. Really interesting connections in a web that always seems to be just out of view I think we've got a good look at smaller chapters in the story so thanks again Good Sir and I guess we'll catch you on the treasure hunt Okay well thanks Greg and Jake right? Yes sir! And thanks for all the information Okay well talk another time Yeah best of luck Bye

1:27:49 Wow. Interesting stuff, what'd you think of all that? It was rough it was a lot because I mean he had a lot of information and a lot of interesting points at the same time no evidence behind anything really other than Jeff said or Jeff claimed things like that but then at the same time... Oh my daughter just walked down here Sadie can go upstairs for a minute You can stop whispering. Can you just go upstairs? That'd be wonderful. We're gonna vaccinate you if you don't get up Oh, thank you I Thank God she had my phone charger. Okay, go upstairs love you. You have to edit that Dude, she's still talking Sadie. Can you please go upstairs? I'll kiss you upstairs Don't get weird. She said she said gotta guess anyway Alright

1:28:47 Ready? Senator Bohemian Grove if she wants a real kiss. There we go, that's fucked up. It is. Sorry. Yeah Jeff you know Jeff has a lot of... Jeff says a lot he has a lot of claims And, you know all of his claims it's weird because then he also claims like one of the things that our guest said just now is uh He claims being friends with Peter Moon and then whenever he said that Peter Moon says well You know I hardly know the guy or you know who's at again? You know things like that so it just kind of gives you an insight into Jeff state-of-mind. And you know I did hear a couple interviews with Jeff and Adam you know Adam go rightly with Doug and he comes across as

1:29:32 Sane individual, you know, he doesn't sound like he has any mental issues or anything like that He's lucid but yeah, yes But it was still just very weird here and all these different claims and all this information. But there's I didn't really hear any Smoking gun whatsoever No, I mean I do agree with the other its the connections are loose And it comes from one man especially when you get into the chrono stuff but as far as Tuesday welds concern I mean Even Adam himself who's written several pieces said he's not a hundred percent convinced But you know, he still presents the information as it comes from Jeff and we even see today. There's plenty of links between

1:30:18 Hollywood and the music industry and The Illuminati, you know the American Pie story is great I'm gonna think about that every time. I hear the fucking song now but is it isn't necessarily true? I don't know We'll probably never know and these people are not amateurs at keeping secrets so you got to look at the anecdotal stuff And if some of it checks out then maybe there's some credibility to it. Right, and you know we've been sitting on this episode for about a month now I knew it was coming up and actually sent Tuesday Welda fan letter that I looked at up online I was just like you know what I want to see if she ever said anything about it and I haven't heard her response because it was snail mail there is no email address or phone number anything like that

1:31:02 And I was really hoping for some kind of response man. I doubt she would come out and say oh, yeah It was the Queen of the fucking Illuminati Right, yeah but I still just very curious and You know wanted to see what she had to say about it if anything and of course you know came up empty-handed But that would have been awesome day here back from her just because like I said Just see what she had to say about it If she would have alluded to anything or you know, completely denied the whole thing being that it's one not true or completely denied it obviously. You know they don't want to be completely outed but anymore though its a curious thing because I mean there is symbolism in everything now and maybe its just now I know what Im seeing whereas before six months ago year ago I didn't really. It could be something like that but at the same time now things are so blatantly obvious

1:31:57 I mean with you know Beyonce at the Super Bowl even, you know it's a diamond sign. Yeah and that's how it's yeah she was...I guess she said she was saying hello to Jay-Z because that's the symbol for Rockefeller Records but Rockefeller Records? A fucking pyramid come on! Oh yeah exactly I mean it's the same symbol It's an occult symbol And I really want to do a full show on this, but they say and I haven't looked into exactly who would be the best fit as a guest or researcher on the subject. But they say that there's a $20 million club of fame and fortune. If you are in The Illuminati and you want to reach that level, you must perform a blood sacrifice. Kanye West lost his mom in a freak plastic surgery accident. Damon Dash who I don't even know,

1:32:49 Blue too hard to even be successful, but Aaliyah went down in a strange plane crash and that was apparently Damon Dash's sacrifice. I mean Suge Knight you got Tupac Jay-z his nephew died in a car crash Another weird one is Eminem His good friend Proof got gunned down in 2006 outside of a nightclub, and apparently there's no real convictions there. But what's really strange about that is it was foreshadowed... If you've ever seen the music video of I think it's Like Toy Soldiers? There's a blacked-out car pulls up in front of a nightclub and fills Proof with bullets, and he dies in the hospital

1:33:31 Two years later, he actually gets killed in front of a nightclub. Was that Eminem's blood sacrifice? It's hard to say. People like to look at these celebrities and think they're good people and wouldn't do that but they're not really doing it They are just allowing it to happen. They are arranging it The people behind the scenes are the ones causing the murder They just have to give it the okay Really weird. It's some dark shit But what I mean, what would you say if some mystery man offered you 20 million? And all you have to do is let your wife and kids die in a freak jet skiing accident and then you'll be on the cover of every corporate owned magazine and guest on the nightly talk show rotation

1:34:07 Right, personally. Was that a hypothetical or was that for real question? Well I mean of course you're going to say no when it's safe and we're on the air and there is not $20 million in the suitcase right in front of you but if I see you planning any jet skiing trips this summer I'm gonna have some questions Nice! But I guess we can wrap up here Is there anything else you want to say to people Not really. It was just, you know... it was a good interview He brought forth a lot of information The only problem I had with it was that a lot of it was so old Like Tiffany, y'know I we know who Tiffany is but i just barely know who she is you know from one song five years old at the time and then all the 60s stuff. I'm a big fan of 60's music that's why I thought it'd be a good fit right yeah but don't watch a whole lot of 60s television or anything like that no so, I mean a lot of this stuff was kind of over my head as far as the first section to the interview goes

1:35:02 And then with the Project Montauk and things like that, I mean everything he brought forth – some of it's been said before. The other stuff he said that Jeff is the only person who ever heard claimed this and… I mean the only thing I can say to that is well, then it might be bullshit if there was only one guy that had that bit of information. The snake point thing that I did find interesting, but at the same time it's like you know there's not any archaeological digs there. There's no evidence of anything other than this spiritual connection to the place really and uh right if it is something we could have a personal experience with I would be willing To try that before I called bullshit on something like that Oh absolutely absolutely And uh It's just that You know there's a lot of people out there. I mean probably 90% of the population who

1:35:50 That kind of thing won't matter unless you have like a physical object in front of you or some sort and that's true too And to your point that a lot of this is over was over your head or before your time To be a little more accurate I mean, I agree. I feel like a lot of times we are talking about things that happened decades ago—whether we're talking still about Roswell or we're talking about the Montauk Project—a lot of the time we are not talking about current events and I did like the story of the Romanian chamber because it seems to be a current development even though again there's not a whole lot of evidence to support it but

1:36:29 that the military is heavily involved so there won't be, there just won't be. The fact that there's a book at all is interesting but you know I'm happy to go back and look at some of that stuff but whether it's true or not does it matter if Tuesday Weld was head of the Illuminati in the 1960s? Does it matter like I want to know who's in charge now. Yeah who's in charge now but I mean that's the thing we can look at what kind of evidence she left behind I mean, I say left behind. She's still alive but i guess it was like 1992 or something like that is when she passed down the torch supposedly yeah but in hollywood and hollywood years she's long dead right right exactly but uh no you know it's a curious thing to take the information from all these conspiracy theories from the last 40 years like we'll say pre-2000 take all that information and how he can work into today's

1:37:21 … conspiracy theories and things like that, and eventually we'll – I'm sure we'll tie a lot of these together. And say oh well this happened back in 1962 and the parallels are identical to what happened in 2013. Right. So I like to say that. I'm a conspiracy enthusiast rather than a conspiracy Rather than say, I'm a skeptic and try to redefine that word You know just to say I'm a theorist like I just I'm very interested in these juicy stories And a lot of times I just chalk it up too. I probably will never know you know right did Stanley Kubrick Direct the moon landing? I don't know but if you want to talk about it for two fucking hours. I'd like to hear what you got to say oh

1:38:02 Right, yeah. Bring it on! Bring on the evidence, bring on the information because I love hearing this stuff and reading about this stuff And that's the thing is we discuss in the first five minutes of the show We'll never know You can go watch Cake Boss for two hours or you can listen to some stories that might be true Right, and that's actually the best benefit of my job is I'm behind the wheel driving a traction trailer for several hours per day so I've got unlimited time basically to listen to conspiracy theory radio shows and things like that. So it's a huge honor just to be on one finally but you know its all stuff that raises eyebrows and makes you think

1:38:44 That pretty much does it for us today. Great time doing the show always, I'm honored to introduce the world to this sexy slab of meat that is Jake Bender You can catch his RealityBender column at TheHigherSideChats.com with a new one popping off every Wednesday Jake also set up a Twitter to engage his newly found fan base with its- With all five fans Yeah, it's at THCbender At DHCventures. Follow this man, you need it he needs it also feel free to write our guest tonight Doug Hawes for a copy of his work

1:39:19 Or, you know send a message to Jeff Turner. That about does it I myself narrowly dodged getting fired this week And i'm really trying to make THC and conspirates my only gig so please check out the shirts at conspirates net I'm not fucking around with these shirts they're great quality water-based ink I'm super happy with them and I should have two new designs very soon So check them out pull the trigger You're gonna love them Again, spreading the show and giving us your likes and shares and retweets. I mean those are the currencies of the digital era and i appreciate them even more than dollars! Uh... just wish my landlord agreed. On that note uh... Jake thanks again Hey thanks for having me. Of course. I'd be happy- more than happy to do it again sometime Awesome so I'm gonna play American Pie in ode to our ritual Illuminati sacrifice And keep doing what you do people and I'll see on the Sabbath

1:40:11 That I could make those people dance and maybe they'd be happy for a while But February made me shiver with every paper I deliver Bad news on the doorstep, I couldn't take one more step. I can't remember if I cried when I read about his widowed bride But something touched me deep inside The day the music So by Miss American Pie Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry And them good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye Singing this'll be the day that I die This'll be the day that I Did you write

1:41:31 The Bible tells you so Can music save your mortal soul? And can you teach me how to dance slow I know that you're up with him cause i saw ya dancing in the gym Kicked off your shoes Made a lonely teenage With a pink carnation and a pickup truck But the day, I started singing

1:42:21 Buyin' this American pie Drove my Chevy to the levee But the levee was dry Food, drink and whiskey and rye And singin', This'll be the day that I die This'll be the day that I di- I was fat on a rolling stone but That's not how you When the jester sang for The king and queen He borrowed from James Dean In a voice That came from You & Me

1:43:05 And while the king was looking down, the jester stole his thorny crown. The room was adjourned for remarks. The quartet practiced in the park and we sang dirges in the dark. The days it died, we were singing bye-bye. This American pie Drove my Chevy to the levee But the levee was dry Them good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye And singing, this'll be the day that I die This'll be the day that I... Helped her in a summer swell Through the burlap shelving Eight miles high In the fallen fad On the grass The players tried For a forward pass With the jester on their sidelines

1:44:19 Now the halftime air was sweet perfume while the sergeants played a marching tune. We ought to dance, I've got the chance! The players tried to take the marching band with you Do you recall the feel of day? We started singing, minus American Pie, Doughnuts, Chefs and the Levy

1:44:59 And good old boys were drinking whiskey and pride, singing this'll be the day. This'll be the day that I dip generation lost in space with no time left to start again So come on Jack! Be nimble, Jack! Be quick! Jack Flash sat on a candlestick cause fire is the devil's only Oh, and as I watched him on the stage My hands were clenched and fists of rage No angel born in me Could break that Satan's spell into the night To light the sacrificial rite I saw Satan's music die He was singing bye-bye Miss America Oh, my Chevy to the left, the levee was dry

1:46:16 And did all the boys with big and whiskey and rye Singing, this'll be the day that I die This'll be the day that I die. I met a girl who sang blues And I asked her for some happy news But she just smiled... I went down to the sacred store Where i'd heard the music years before but The man there said the music wouldn't play

1:46:56 And in the streets, the children screamed The lovers cried and the poets dreamed But not a word was spoken The church bells all were broken And the three men I met The Father Son and the Holy Ghost They caught the last train for the coast The day, the music...and they were singing

1:47:37 I drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry and them good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye singing this'll be the day that i die, this will be Miss American Pie. Drove my Chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry. Them good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye singing this'll be the day that I die.