Steven Snider aka Recluse | Honey Pots, Cicada 3301, & High Strangeness

00:00 Embrace yourself, because you're about to dive into another free first hour episode of the Higher Side Chats. And we just want to let you know that whether your looking for a companion through your paranoid insomnia, entertaining yourself through one of life's mundane activities or trying to ward off the internal screams from all those sad smothered souls around the office THC is here and you should know that every episode of the higher side chats has an entire second hour for PLUS members Sign up at thehiresitechats.com and you'll get years of plus show archives, lifetime forum access a special invite to Greg Carlwood's monthly joint sessions MP3s of THC music bonus episodes tour videos and 10% off t-shirts grinders And whatever else ends up in The HireSite store It's $8 a month that you won't miss so become a Plus member and treat yourself in these troubled times always action packed and commercial free

00:51 Which means you'll unfortunately never hear my voice again. 1930s President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the fireside chats His aim was to reassure the common man that society would recover from its troubled times From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a- I'm Greg Carlwood

01:27 These are the Hireside Chats. Happy days are here again, Hireside Chatters from sunny San Diego! I'm Greg Carlwood and although Jeffrey Epstein is now a household name how quickly we move on from such a high-profile scandal and mysterious cover up? Even the meme that Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself somehow lost its teeth with time And when a person who operates an international child trafficking honeypot operation with a Rolodex full of the world's most rich and famous dies in his jail cell, it seems this whole far-reaching well connected scandal dies with him. But how far back does this operation go? How many Jeffrey Epsteins have there been and who has the power to disappear such a high profile case altogether?

02:10 Like many of you out there, I wonder if we'll ever get more information. But if similar situations in the past are any indication...we won't! At least not from any mainstream clearly co-opted sources But luckily we have people like returning guest Stephen Snyder, better known as Recluse who refused to just sweep this one under the rug and instead is writing a three part book series detailing the intelligence connections the financiers and history of these very operations within US & UK governments. His first book in this series is called A Special Relationship, Trump-Epstein and the Secret History of the Anglo American Establishment which covers the foundation of these tactics and the intelligence networks involved going back decades further than most people would expect.

02:55 Of course, Rekluse has been covering a lot of recent threads on his blog, Vice Upview as well. And you can find three other shows with Rekluse in the THC Archive most recently one talking about his last book Strange Tales of the Parapolitical He's also the host of his own popular podcast called The Farm and I am psyched to have him back once again To dive into the dark world at depths few dare to go The para political powerhouse and deep state detective steven the spider snyder the recluse himself how the hell are you man. I'm doing well man thanks for the great intro there so i try that's even despite her thing like,

03:33 I don't know where that came from, but it just fits. Works man as long as it doesn't involve Steve, I'm fine with that. I am kind of traumatized at the name Steve after that Robin Hitchcock song Clean Steve if you've ever heard that you'll know exactly what I mean. Well the last thing I want to do is dig up old trauma but it's great to talk again this latest book is quite a trip so much history I was unaware of and so many names I'd never heard It's a lot to take in, but let's get right into it and give the people the overview here. The elevator pitch as they say it's a three-part series and you're doing this kind of chronologically the first book starts in the 1930s and takes us up to 1964 And I think those dates alone would surprise some people but why start at there?

04:22 Well, I mean essentially that was from what i could tell was kind of the genesis of the network that was exposed with Epstein. You know, I kind of came to that conclusion after looking at the histories of some of the families that showed up in Epstein's black book and I was surprised by how many of them also showed up in Perfumo, the infamous scandal in the UK that brought down Macmillan's government in 63 So I started wondering about the connections to that, started looking at that. Saw there were definitely a lot of very compelling leads and then from there it's like well where did the Perfumoscan originate from? And I probably could have maybe going back to the Hellfire Clubs in the 18th century with the wigs

05:02 the Jack-o'-Bike feuds and that type of thing. But for the sake of brevity, I kind of decided to go with the 30s because that was also sort of the origins of modern intelligence services and quasi private networks that worked as auxiliaries to them and so forth. So it seemed like a most logical place to begin without really belaboring the origins Right it can truly unravel because i'm sure these types of intelligence networks and their compromising of the, forward facing political figures the ones that we think run the show you know the true puppet masters have them basically all by the balls and not i'm sure that is a tale as old as governments itself when you really get into it.

05:47 Oh yeah, now it's definitely a time-honored tradition that is for sure. And as for that title A Special Relationship what does that refer to and why is it so important to understand to get a full picture of an Epstein like honeypot operation in the modern era? Well The Special Relationship is basically a mythos that was created by the British intelligence services on their propaganda efforts during the Second World War You know, contrary to what we've generally been told the relationship between the United States and the United Kingdoms had obviously been rather antagonistic at various points in history. There was of course the whole rebellion thing, The War of 1812

06:31 But it really had continued in a pretty passive-aggressive fashion all the way up to the early 20th century or so. And generally speaking, up to that point for most average Americans in the street when you thought of a special relationship with European power, it was France. I mean, the French were who had supported us during our own revolution and they were kind of our brothers at arms and democracy and that type of thing So this was one of the major things that Sir William Stevenson, who was a major British intelligence asset. He effectively oversaw all of the British intelligence operations in North America during the Second World War

07:09 That was one of the things that he and his cronies had to work towards changing to crush the isolationist sentiment that was so strong in the United States. Of course, the First World War had not really gone over well with the American populace and there was a general reluctance to die in yet another European war especially for the sake of the British So, you know we had to craft this kind of myth of this time-honored relationship that existed between the UK and the US. And it was a way I think to sort of exercise soft power on the American public and certainly that's process that still continued to great effect to this day

07:53 Of course, you can go back to the 60s with Beatlemania. The whole British rock scene that was so heavily influential continuing on to the 90's with some of the comedies and serials and that type of thing. I mean yeah it was a major propaganda coup for the British something they've been exploiting really ever since has been a major way they managed to maintain a major world influence despite at least officially losing much of their empire Yes soft power is such a great term and that is kind of the name of the game when it comes to these intelligence networks, they don't want you to know how much power they truly wield and neither do the people they have compromise because the people don't want their secrets exposed either just.

08:42 is such a perfect fit. And you can see how this got completely out of control and basically runs the show these days, and has for several decades as you point out in the book we've talked about the Profumo affair in some of our previous conversations but it's crazy how the scandal not only parallels the Epstein scandal but contains some of the same players and intelligence networks which should definitely tell us something Let me ask you about that subtitle, Trump, Epstein and the secret history of the Anglo-American establishment. For me I have no dog in the fight because my personal politics have nothing to do with the two party system and the establishment we have they can all go down it doesn't matter to me but the perception is that the Clintons were cozier with Epstein than Trump was or a name like Roy Cohn would fit in there too but why give Trump top billing in that subtitle?

09:37 Well, it was partly just because I think there's been so much an attempt to downplay Trump's ties to this network essentially. The relationship between the Clintons and Epstein for instance is so well known. To me it almost seems pointless to go on about that. There are already some of the other works that have delved into that topic I also think too, though when you go back and look at some of the longstanding players and the connections that they had to some of the people that Trump was tied in with during his rise in New York in the 1980s. It also provides some interesting insights, you know, to kind of the extent of how these relationships have continued unabated for many decades

10:19 Just to give you an example, one guy who shows up and kind of on the outskirts of Profumo who later became a major player in kind of the 1980s circles that Trump was part in. And then later kind of laid the foundation for Brexit is a guy named Sir James Goldsmith, Sir Jimmy, he's a major press baron and that type of thing. Kind of a sometime frenemy of Robert Maxwell's They certainly had kind of an odd relationship over the years and also a relatively Rothschild family as well. But Goldsmith had been kind of in the outskirts, their circles with Ward and then going into the 1980s he ended up in the clique with Michael Milken

10:59 with Epstein had also been in the outskirts, as had Trump and as had Roy Cohn. And then of course later Goldsmith would put up so much funding for the early attempts to get off the European Union in the UK in the 1990s and to some extent you still see a lot of Goldsmith's accolades including his son-in-law who have continued to fund Brexit into the 21st century. So You know, it is this sort of long-standing tradition that some of these guys over the years kept showing up over and over again. And at least on my end of the research I didn't see those kind of ties to the Clinton family. They may possibly exist you know that's something for other researchers I think to explore but I mean I kind of felt with my own area of expertise I could tell a really compelling story about how these networks evolved over the years from the guys that I had been looking at.

11:51 Yeah it's very confusing and complex to me when you get into the real depth of these networks but i guess i would sum up as bill clinton was an easy politician to capture. But the string pullers of the rise of trump are the architects of these operations which is a much bigger deal, Yeah, I mean it was kind of like a quasi private network as well. To some extent you could draw parallels to Cambridge Analytica the sort of modern network that was really so responsible for the rise of Trump and Epstein and to some extent i think its very much a legacy of the same kinda quasi private intelligence networks that began to emerge in the US and UK in the aftermath of the second world war One of the companies that I dealt with heavily in the first book

12:39 was obviously the World Commerce Corporation, which to me was almost kind of a prototype for to some extent the type of things that you would see later with Cambridge where you had this vast network of these former intelligence officers from multiple services. I mean really it was kind of an international collection of former intelligence officers in both cases with access to phenomenal amounts of money from some of these tycoons and so forth. And just effectively how You know, these kind of techniques and methods combined with that sort of financing could be used to manipulate national governments. It is a disturbing legacy, to put it mildly and I mean something that really...I think the extent of it hadn't dawned on me until I had started to do this research.

13:28 And you know honestly I am definitely one of those people who has political fatigue at this point and i'm a bit surprised that the news media still will not just move on now that the election is over but I did want to switch gears from the book and talk about this post you recently wrote called The Game, because it might be the most intriguing connection I've heard in a while. That the whole QAnon saga movement was an outgrowth of the Cicada 3301 mystery! It is a fascinating and really fresh thread that i would love to hear more about. Introduce us to this how are these two things connected?

14:09 Well, both are in essence what are known as alternate reality games or ARGs. Whatever you want to call them there was a documentary made about one of the more notable ones last decade The Institute a couple of years ago which followed the I think it was the San Francisco based ARG the JeJune Institute and then there was a more recent one that was from the same people i think was Bright Axiom or something like that But just to kind of give you guys some perspective on this, and then certainly ARGs have also been used in a lot of popular entertainment especially shows associated with J.J. Abrams they did some of them like for Lost certainly you can see some that incorporated into Westworld and some of the ARGs that they've done to promote that show

14:56 As far as Cicada goes, that started I believe what in 2012-2013 thereabouts. And there's some dispute as to the extent to this guy called Thomas Schoenberger and the role that he had in Cicada in the early days it seems like most likely he had none whatsoever but at some point through a process of what is referred to as game jacking. He and some of his associates seem to have taken over aspects of the cicada puzzles, put their own spin on them you know? You kind of see that with that... What was it? The bizarre book, the kind of grimoire looking thing that came out several years after the initial cicada puzzles and so forth

15:38 And it seems like showing burger used at least part of the people who have been involved in the early order. For cicada and gradually brought them into the queue and on thing as time went on, I mean, a lot of ways it sort of goes back to Gamergate and this whole process where there was this realization that you had this radicalized group of young men in these gamer circles who could be manipulated possibly towards some political end or other. And my kind of think that might have been the process that started with recruiting people out of the Cicada game There have been compelling links showing that Schoenberger is tied to Michael Flynn, Trump's very brief national security advisor at one point. Also formerly the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency and also the head of the intelligence services for the Joint Special Operations Command. Flynn had gone into private intelligence like a lot of these guys after he was drummed out of the Obama administration. He seems to have also been tied into this broader Cambridge Analytica network that I was talking about before

16:43 Schoenberger potentially had some kind of links to Flynn. And then from there, you see this whole QAnon thing starting shortly after Trump had assumed the presidency and also tying into a lot of the disinformation that had come out of Pizzagate during the climax of the 2016 election. So, I mean it's really interesting to see how this sort of gamer culture effectively had been weaponized, I think, to some extent by these elements tied into these private security companies using this ARG format effectively Yeah, it is really interesting and for people who aren't aware Cicada 3301 it emerged on January 4th 2012 on 4chan which has a clue in retrospect. And yeah also the whole 4chan connection Yes And it's interesting that it was basically nine years almost to the day of The capital storming which was the culmination? of

17:42 Q and on and basically after that got shut down it just fizzled out and you know it's about time but it is interesting that it seems like a nine year game they played on people. And i wanted to dig in a little more to that book you mentioned because here's the quote from your website we say the puzzles were allegedly designed to locate highly intelligent individuals initially they largely centered around data security cryptography, and steganography but overtime they became more fixated on the occult incorporating elements such as free masonry crowley runes and even the highly easter teric work of william blake.

18:23 This thread reached an apex with the launch of a tie in book leiber primus which appears to be something between a codebook and a grimoire i did not know about that time book until reading this basically. But have you looked into that with any sort of detail that's pretty intriguing yeah i mean my understanding is the, I think there's only been maybe one or two of the total puzzles and it cracked up to this point. I think there were what like 90, 100 or something like that? Essentially like there's one laid out on each page

19:02 Obviously, it's got a lot of very elaborate esoteric symbolism to it and so forth. And there has been quite a bit of dispute as to whether or not it was actually intended to be part of the original Cicada 3301 game—whether it was just something that was tacked on later by the group that Schoenberger was connected with... Of course there was that documentary that was made about Cicada that came out a couple of years ago. I think it was only like one or two years ago, when it's like cracking the cicada code or something like that. It was made by real big picture or something like that. A TV company, I think, that was tied into CNN or something like that. One of the major ones out there so... There is a lot of money behind this thing. It was very professionally made and they had some pretty senior intelligence officers come on camera to talk about this kind of thing

19:55 And it really put a very, you know just romantic spin on the whole cicada thing and I mean especially this one group that's still left kind of working on this bizarre grimoire trying to crack its mysteries. But yeah it's... I mean it almost in a way, you know. It kind of shows the romantic allure to the Q thing in a sense. You know what I mean? It was kinda a way to recruit a lot of these inspired nerds if you will and these social types get them working on these tight knit groups on this bizarre mystical texts and so forth

20:32 Certainly this whole process was, I'd say lowered a few levels to accommodate the Q people who certainly were not as sophisticated as the audience for Cicada 3301. You know, it is sort of interesting how in both cases you kind of gradually saw the injection of this quasi-mysticism into these games. I mean originally Cicada was obviously more about ciphers and that type of thing. Those ciphers have a long history with occultism as well at least going back to the Renaissance with John Deeb but I don't want to get too off topic with that. But yeah, kinda same thing with QAnon. It was kinda originally centered around the allegations

21:10 that emerged with Pizzagate and Epstein, the elite pedophile networks. And in the case of both I mean they sort of gradually almost became a religion almost you know? You know thats exactly what you need for missionary zeal. And i looked into Lieber Primus a little bit before sitting down with you today and it looks like the whole thing as far as I can tell is written in a runic script of some kind so you really cant parse in just a cursory glance at all. But it's very interesting, that grimoire aspect makes me think about the idea that they could have crowdsourced or attempted to crowdsource their rituals or their connections to demonic entities that many suggest they are connected to by

21:58 But just wild because a grimoire is meant for dialing up the spirit world. So I just wonder what that's about? Yeah, you almost wonder if it was really to try to subject people to some of the symbols and what have you on like a subconscious level. You know what I mean? That's something that you kind of see with some of these other ARGs another one was The Forgotten Languages website which has had a couple of strange videos with some of these odd symbols and stuff but yeah There is this sort of odd, you know kind of attempt to I think broach the archetypes or something to that effect with this grimoire. Because again it just seems like the puzzles were almost designed to be unbreakable in a sense, you know? I mean there's probably people possibly who have been driven insane trying to go through that stuff but yeah it is crazy

22:45 Yeah and those connections of course if there is something that is co opted or started by the intelligence community you're going to see a lot of red herring explanations for how and why it exists like you mentioned the tv company making a little documentary cuz people ask questions as long as they have a nice comfortable answer don't stop asking So, you can spin it off and to say, oh. It was started by this guy or this group and when you dig deeper it doesn't really hold a lot of water but yet the people who are Supposedly in charge of this thing have these us intelligence ties you mention william brinney x. Nsa guy you mentioned the veteran intelligence professionals for sanity group and robert david steel which curiously is a guest from a few years ago that i interviewed but he says right news by all these ex cia so

23:45 I don't know it's tough you know that these kind of people are playing in the alternative conspiratorial space and it seems like this is just a massive operation to, co-op the thoughts and feelings and actions of people who are typically skeptical of the establishment and conspiratory minded. Yeah, I mean in a sense you know. I mean I know Chris Knowles has referred to the Q thing to some extent as a pacification program. I mean I definitely think there is some element of that You could maybe draw some parallels as well to the UFO community. Obviously that was a whole network That's been so thoroughly penetrated by the intelligence services for decades now

24:30 And that has certainly had, I would say some interesting effects on the broader UFO community. And as such, I suppose it's probably not that surprising either that you see so many people drifting into the Q thing and people like Corey Good and Jay-Z Knight and David Wilcox and I would imagine probably a fair amount of their followers as well But yeah, I mean you know this sort of was something that's sort of interesting going back to one of the earlier ARGs ongs hat. That was started by a guy called Joseph Matheny and it brought in a lot of the major conspiracy tropes at that era it was like around the late 80s early 90s when he got going and especially the Montauk stuff. In fact Matheny actually wrote a book with one guy Peter Moon I think his name is who um was really big for

25:18 spreading the Montauk mythos. And they started incorporating a lot of the Montauk stuff into the Aung's Hat thing along with, you know, some references to like the Shaver Mysteries, to a lot of big New Age tropes, some of the mind control things, some of the remote viewing stuff and so on and so forth... And Metheny is studying all this and he started to notice that You know, you would have people drawn into Aang's hat with personalities that could be turned into unstable flights of fantasy through this kind of stuff. So on the one hand, you know, you can draw in people who are highly intelligent who might be asking questions and you can basically send them down this endless thread of false leads and so forth so that they achieve nothing

26:03 On the flip side of the coin, you can also rope in people who can be pushed towards very antisocial if not outright dangerous ends as well. Certainly I mean just this sort of bizarre blending of fantasy with conspiracy theory can really mess with people in a profound psychological way on any number of levels Yes it can yes i can and makes me start to wonder where is the truth if any to these paranormal sagas these mysteries like shaver this things that are really interested in compelled by maybe buy design but it seems like there's some truth in their somewhere but i don't know are these just.

26:47 Glob don't you buy the intelligence community are they just used as bait are they cutting around the truth to form their own narrative or is it made. Completely out of whole cloth by these people when it comes to some of the deeper mysteries that we would consider easter egg or paranormal these legends of lor in the paranormal coast to coast space how much truth is there and any stories do you think, Well, I mean a lot of the stuff especially since the 1980s is highly questionable. This is especially obvious in the UFO field for instance. A lot of big tropes that are now so significant in UFO circles. Roswell, The Dulce Mythos, Majestic 12 all of that stuff really emerged

27:39 a very quick succession in the 1980s, largely being promoted by handful of researchers. And many of these guys in turn were being fed information by an informal network some of them were former intelligence officers some are still working but they've been dubbed the aviary allegedly because of the bird names and so forth that these guys used. And interestingly, a couple of these guys had ties going back to the stuff that you know, the SRI remote viewing experiments and what have you in the 1970's which is interesting in light of the guy was just talking about Joseph Matheny

28:16 Matheny was a good friend of Robert Anton Wilson, and certainly as I'm sure you're aware of Robert Anton Wilson's book The Cosmic Trigger was enormous for bringing to light. A lot of the remote viewing stuff to the public for the first time in the mid 1970s so Wilson knew all these guys as well some of these guys ended up in the aviary spreading a lot of this stuff with Dulce with Majestic 12 and what have you At the same token, you had sort of the beginning of these early ARGs that Joseph Metheny was doing. And I should emphasize—I mean, I don't know that there was a coordinated conspiracy in fact, I really don't think that there was but certainly these guys have rubbed elbows before and

28:59 There's kind of this odd thread, I think of like Rasha crucianism that really runs through those and seems to be in obsession with a lot of these guys. And you know for those of you like unaware Rasha crucian is essentially started as a LARP in the early 17th century there's just absolutely no evidence at all that there was real Rasha crucians society when No, there's not it was kind of an informal network around Tobias Hess and the guy, Johannes Valentinus Andrea. I'm probably butchering that you guys have heard my prior interviews on my podcast. You know, I can barely speak English German so yeah but anyway there's no evidence that there was any kind of a Rosh Hakushin society it was a LARP and specifically you know this Johannes guy the main author of them described the Rosh Hakushin manifesto specifically as a game for the curious

29:53 And that's basically what modern day ARGs are as well. They're games for the curious. Yeah, I mean basically you know he brought in all of this hermetic you know, in Kabbalistic traditions and the whole process of Theurgi which was really popular in these inner circles coming out of the Renaissance into the early Enlightenment. And they turned it into this manifesto which was essentially targeted originally for Paracelsian doctors I mean there's really no evidence that it was ever supposed to be released to the public at large either and basically it was to try to get them to reinvase the spirit of Paracelsus and the concept that a true physician treated the body and the spirit

30:34 renew mutual cooperation among physicians that had really been torn down by the Reformation, the dispute between the Protestants and Catholics and that type of thing. And that was completely lost when the Manifestos were released to the public at large in 1614 because tons of people who had no reference point for this type of material started to read them. And they became convinced that, you know, the Rajyakrishnas really were a thing And ironically enough, the whole Rashicrucian ideology would have a profound influence on speculative Freemasonry. So you know several years later I mean you could argue that something very much like the Rashicrucians had come into existence in no small part because of the influence of the Rashicrucian manifestos But yeah it's important to emphasize there was no Rashicrucian society It was a LARP that effectively became reality

31:29 And I mean, the thing is when you get into like modern times you see a lot of these guys talking about their interest in Rashacrucianism that were active in some of these circles. Jay Allen Hynek colleague of Jacques Vallée has acknowledged an interest in Rashacrucianism. I believe Jacques Vallée's also interested in Rashacrucianism. Marion Zimmerman Bradley the author of The Myths of Avalon and Walter Greene's wife One of the co-founders of the Society for Creative Anachronisms, who was so active in whole San Francisco scene and was interested in Rashacrucianism. A lot of these guys had an interest in Rashacrucianism

32:07 And I think honestly, when you see people talk about Rosh Hakrushinism in these kinds of circles, it's basically an acknowledgment of how fiction and fantasy can be used to shape reality. It does kind of make me wonder on some level how many people who were spreading some of these narratives were not necessarily doing them simply for disinformation purposes though there are certainly That was also a factor as well, no doubt. But I mean how much of it was to actually affect reality itself? That's kind of an interesting question and look at what happens in the world in the 21st century probably far more pertinent

32:44 Yeah and it is always sad to me when someone like robert and ten wilson you start to look at the connections and, you're like man i thought you were a real counterculture figure but now not so sure it seems like maybe you are seated too. Put certain ideas in the counter culture i just never know strange bedfellows as they say when you really get deep into these people weather the person starts is a counterculture figure who writes a few books and then the intelligence communities get interested in them or if it works the other way, is hard to say but just kinda makes me sad when that happens with rosa christianism maybe is there something to the building blocks because kabbalist free masonry those are clearly bodies of knowledge that do have some merit i mean rose christians my guess is

33:37 meant to be another one of the secret societies steeped in the occult and maybe that was made out a whole cloth but that doesn't really mean that there isn't something to the, broad strokes that connected that material right i mean you think there's something to the occult so they wouldn't really be so interested. Oh yeah, well I mean there definitely is a whole element to the occult in it as well. It's kind of interesting because some of the people with Rosh Hakrushin involved in the early Rosh Hakrushin movement or whatever you want to call its surrounding manifestos and 16 teens, the early 20s would later end up contributing to this interesting church known as the Moravians. The Moravian Church sometimes they're known as the Bohemian Brethren

34:26 But yeah, this whole church just has this bizarre legacy of occultism and just really a profound influence in the Western tradition that's never talked about. But I mean on the one hand there was the whole process of Theurgy or this you know communication with angels that they were so obsessed with but also later they seem like they were one of the first sects to really bring sex magic effectively into the Western tradition which would have been around the 18th century in the era of Ziffendorf, I think his name was. But yeah they had these missionaries going to India with the British East India Company. They actually were able to observe Tantra firsthand and they were probably some of the first Europeans and then going into you know this would have been around the middle of the 18th century when they started to come up with this whole bizarre sexualization I guess you could say if the body of Jesus

35:20 For instance, the piercing of the side of the Lord with a spear started to be seen as penetrating sexual act and they had these visualizations at the side hole. Later this became seen is somehow possibly a justification for homosexual acts so yeah they started to engage in this type of thing and oddly you know this was the church that the parents of William Blake were members of There is some indication that maybe Blake was subjected to some of these things as a child. Certainly one of the paintings that the Moravian Church became quite fixated with was an image of the baby Jesus with an erect penis, that the mother Mary was... Jesus? Yeah! This was something they were instructed to visualize It's really creepy and perverse on any number of levels

36:20 Yeah, so the Moravians had this odd connection to the Rosh Hachurian movement in the early days. They later brought in these very strange practices they may well have been one of the first practitioners of some kind of ritualized sex magic and Europe they certainly seem to have a head of influence on William Blake and I mean certainly Blake is very popular in a lot of these circles there's a reason why Thomas Harris named one of the Hannibal Lecter books after a Blake painting. Yes, certainly Blake could also be seen as one of the first advocates of transgenderism and that type of thing. Certainly if you look at his depiction of angels they are quite androgynous so yeah there is this just really bizarre occult legacy that intersected with the Rashacrucian manifestos which were kind of a LARP

37:16 In a sense, you know you could almost maybe look at them as equivalent maybe to the Illuminatus trilogy which was also a fictional work but obviously brought in a lot of these really esoteric ideals that were not widely known to the populace at large. into the mainstream. I mean, this is especially true for instance of like the Illuminati. Almost all of the modern day Illuminati mythos really comes from the Illuminatus trilogies. Before that and the whole Operation Mindfuck that the Discordian Society had engaged in which Robert Anton Wilson was a member

37:54 You know, you really never heard a lot about the Illuminati. And now yeah I mean millions of people believe that they're very much a thing that's practically become a religion in this sense so yeah it is just strange that you do have this odd overlap between these very high magical practices effectively and then you know this sort of proto-larping and science fiction fantasy Wild stuff man and you mentioned ufo is a bit earlier and of course you do to a lot of great work covering the goings on in the space what are your thoughts on me, cove it relief bill including this provision requiring the pentagon and various intelligence agencies to reveal what they know about us those within a hundred eighty days i think they only have to reveal it to congress but of course

38:46 that's a lot of people and so maybe the secret will get out at that point it's interesting maybe its something that'll just ignore of course you know there is that possibility or they're gonna spin it off in their own direction, what are your thoughts on now what do you think will be different about the world and a hundred eighty days in terms of what we know or quote unquote no about ufo. Well, you know I think maybe the world has already been changed to some extent because we've at least been given the bizarre spectacle of Tucker Carlson interviewing Nick Pope on Fox News. I mean...I don't know if I ever thought I would live to see something like that? I don't hope a lot of other people did either so there's that

39:31 At this point I'm so disillusioned with the whole UFO thing, I just expect it to be honestly another cock tease. Just some other endless rabbit hole to all of this? It's just one of those things like if all the stuff that you could attach as a writer to like the COVID bill... Like well just throw UFO disclosure on there! What the heck?! It seemed odd and it also seems strange in the context of a changing administration. Hey, you know here's this countdown we're gonna put it right on the tail end of this giant transition within the pentagon and intelligence communities that timing seemed a little interesting. Yeah i mean it was really hard like you're saying I mean just especially with everything going on that they would just decide to kind of like revive the whole ufo thing I mean you know and then it kinda came also oddly at the time when there is this I guess TTSA has sort of had a bit of split lately as well

40:31 And just in general, I mean within the UFO community it kind of seems like the only people who are even really excited about this or just you know really people have only been following this kind of stuff for like the last couple years. Or something like that. I mean almost all of the older researchers have become so disillusioned with this stuff that I don't know if anybody is taking it seriously I mean, does anybody even really care? I think a lot of us know what we need to know about it to a degree. But it's still interesting to follow what they're going to seed as the mainstream narrative. Yeah, I suppose there is that and at this point for me at least the major thing is just how this is going to affect the public at large

41:19 Or I mean, again if it'll even happen. It means certainly there are so many issues confronting the United States and the world now. I mean it wouldn't take for much for an emergency to cancel this kind of procedure or... Who knows? I mean, that'll be another thing to give life to the disclosure initiative. We were that close and then the great cyber attack of 2021 happened and dammit we balked again! It was all just stop the truth about the alien space brothers coming out and their message of peace and love to humanity um just don't ask them about the Jews. I just say that because i've seen so many communications where they bring up anything with the Jews it's just like what is this?

42:00 Well hey, another interesting thread you've been covering recently is a strange string of mysterious soldier deaths at Fort Bragg and maybe a few other bases as well but what are the details here because strings of mysterious deaths usually mean something interesting even though we never really can nail it down exactly but we had a string up holistic doctor deaths in the previous five Five years and now that kind of makes a little bit of sense cuz there's less holistic voices to talk about. Things going on in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one but what do you think is up with these deaths and what makes them mysterious is just the number of debts are they happening in weird ways,

42:47 Well, a few of them definitely. I mean in one case one of the soldiers was he was like on a camping trip and he was dismembered In fact i think all they found his body at this point was like his head or something like that so yeah that's a little unusual two of the other deaths seem to be related to some kind of criminal activity I mean some kind of drug deal or something to that effect Or at least that's what you know what the media at large is being told A few of them were suicides. I should probably point out, like what really drew my attention to these deaths specifically was the fact that they were happening at Fort Bragg and Fort Bragg is the home of the Joint Special Operations Command and US Army special forces. I mean effectively all of the elite special operations forces in the U.S are like garrisons there

43:37 So, it's interesting in light on the one hand because of a lot of the geopolitics playing out right now involving the special operators especially in terms of some of the moves that Trump made during the last few months of his administration. You could kind of wonder or some of the deaths specifically associated with Fort Bragg related to that But on the flip side of the coin too, this was something that came up in a conversation I had with David Metcalf. You also have got to kind of wonder what some of the deaths especially associated with Fort Bragg and maybe some of the other ones because there have been a lot of strange deaths at military bases in general over the last decade or so at least but how much of this is related just modifications and stuff that are being done to the soldiers?

44:25 Obviously, you know the whole super soldier thing. I mean it's been in the works for a while now. I've written about how going back to Project Artichoke probably one of the objectives was that was to try and craft super soldiers That started over 70 years ago so surely they probably made some pretty decent advances since then How many of these rash suicides and just strange deaths and stuff are related to this? I mean people, their implants or things like that involved having them take out if there's some kind of odd drug concoctions. Is it related to being taken off the staff being put back on other staff

45:03 Who knows but I mean it is just odd at this particular time you know especially with all the geopolitics involving Fort Bragg and just some of the other possibly more sci-fi explanations that you would see all these deaths coming out right now. Very curious, i like the idea of a super soldier program gone bad? How many people could wake up Add some kind of hybrid and end up committing suicide or just manipulated in the mind to a degree that they're like i gotta just end this, i just strange stuff you mention up the potential for. A gang with occult overtones that has infiltrated the special operations community that is interesting as well yeah what mean there's been no possibly some indications of their

45:55 Really, when you sort of look at some of the stuff with Son of Sam I mean obviously that was more general military as opposed to the special operations community But you know that's something that I've been looking at a lot kind of going into the Iran-Contra era With the civilian material assistance outfit. I mean this was a group of veterans probably with CIA ties via Thomas Posey That were procuring arms for the whole you know the Contras and what have you in Nicaragua And then related to that was another outfit called the Phantom Division, I believe which is almost all special operations. But these guys appear to have been involved in a ton of criminal activity probably working directly with... Well actually I do have some declassified FBI documents that do strongly indicate that they were working directly with active duty Special Operations Forces and the Green Berets at the time

46:49 And the thing about all this is interesting, is that the CMA was also tied in to this other group that I've written about and studied for a long time, known as the Sovereign Order of St. John. They were actually both implicated in the FBI PatCon investigation and the Order of Saint John going back to some of its original incarnations to the Schicksinian Knights of Malta just had all kinds of crazy interests I mean guys like Cleve Baxter, the guy who claimed to be able to talk to plants and was also an archer or bluebird scientist rather was involved with The Order of Saint John Philip corso wrote the day after roswell was a member of the order of saint john they have like an organ specialist on their staff they had this whole interest in your pose general. The shiver orders tonight's templar all that kind of stuff

47:39 So, there is very much an indication that the Order of St. John was this sort of quasi-cult. It had extensive ties to the US military going back at least to the 1960s and by at least like the late 1980's you can definitely see this overlap with these Green Berets, these former special operators in these kind of quasi-militia outfits and groups like the Order of St. John, and possibly an even more exclusive outfit known as the White Eagle Lodge who are all tied into this nexus of criminal activity supporting Iran-Contra. Certainly I don't think that this network rolled or just went away after the Cold War was over with

48:20 And certainly George from KevDef has done some really great research on this and how, you know probably this whole network was tied into the murder of JonBenet Ramsey and some of this other insanity. So yeah it's very unsettling, there are a lot of indications that there is sort of bizarre cultic network within the military probably within the special operations community I mean its been linked into some very nefarious stuff for decades now Yeah it's very strange how many authors and witnesses of you follow g events end up connected in some regard obviously you mentioned philip course so and seems like u. What cast a lot of doubt on his story in his book because of this connections,

49:09 when you get to the heart of ufology what do you think is the kernel of truth there if any is it made out a whole clock completely, is that an overlap with the occult that they've just turned into this nuts and bolts thing is at the saucers in the crafts that you think is a manipulation i mean. The whole thing made up as a larp. What do you think is the as the truth in the heart of ufology? Is there anything I Don't even know really if anybody knows what the truth and ufology is anymore It's really incredible But as far as it goes, I mean yeah, I think there's always been that overlap with the occult I mean really when you go back and look at a lot of the early Ufologists and contactees and so forth. I mean people like George on Ninsky George Hunt Williamson

49:57 I mean almost all of these guys had kind of cut their teeth in theosophy or other kind of occultic practices and so forth. So, I think there's always been that overlap especially with channeling and so forth And again, I mean you have that sort of rich history especially in Western occultism really going back to John Dee. So there has been that ongoing legacy of that and some extent you do have to wonder how much the earlier communications with angels are now what people think they're communicating with or UFOs or aliens or whatever

50:33 So, yeah I mean I would say that I am very skeptical of the nuts and bolts explanation of a lot of the explanations have been put forth for UFOs. But on the flip side of the coin, I am fascinated by Chris Noll's whole concept of Roswell working. Yeah Which i think you know potentially what he has been indicating at is that a lot of modern technology did come out of Roswell in some capacity but it was summoned as he has often said so was there some kind of ritual that did provide us with access to this technology?

51:09 It is sort of interesting when you go back again to John Dee, that whole communication with the angels back then. I mean from that point onward England really became the preeminent superpower in the world and then you also had this sort of ongoing process of so much technological innovation that's kind of went hand-in-hand with these cultic traditions especially with communication with nonhuman intelligences So I mean, I have started to wonder on some level. Is it possible that some of this stuff did come from other sources? Other than ourselves? That's definitely a possibility that cannot be discounted. Yeah! That is kind of where i take it

51:54 My favorite stories are the ones where you hear that these deep state operators are making ritual contact with something else and their given plans or instructions or, Technologies that actually end up working when they follow along to what they're told to do they make something and it works weather is the transistor or some kind of a i quantum computer. It's just really fascinating to think well what is on the other side of that conversation what are their true intentions and, do these deep state projects that think they run this show are they even in control are they being played by something beyond the veil

52:36 Yeah, well that's usually what I tend to lean towards. Something beyond the veil has been manipulating modern history for a very long time now. Probably at least for the last 500 years or so Ultimately, when you sit down and look at it I mean there have just been so much obsession amongst the ruling elites in some of the Western nations now for just centuries with these strange traditions and especially communication effectively with non-human intelligences. In many cases these are people with lots of money going back a lot of the early

53:14 Royal society and so forth kind of came out of this occult nexus I mean in some extent modern science can also be attributed to it But ultimately, I don't think that these kinds of movers and shakers with this sort of power with this kind of access Would continue to do this stuff year after year for centuries after centuries if they didn't work on some level You know, that's to me the most logical conclusion to draw from all of it. Yes great point great point Man this is been really great talking to you this book brings a lot of things light and makes a strong case that this history of the special relationship between the right wing forces of both the us and uk are responsible for running, a lot of these honey pot operations against their horny political opponents.

54:02 that these operations have really shaped and compromised our political class, that they're responsible for the rise of Trump and the QAnon LARP to some degree. And the notion that Trump was going to drain the swamp can really be put to rest when you actually comb through all this historical context. As you say when we know that context it's no surprise there is incredible overlap between families linked to Profumo and the names in Epstein's black book. The Churchills, Astors, Goldsmiths, Gettys, Hambrows, Mountbattens, Burleys, McMillans and Kennedys all appear in both scandals and that is no small thing hard to dismiss that

54:48 Yeah, I mean it really is and I mean I just kind of think it's just part of a broader legacy How the ruling elite of the UK and probably to some extent? The US have been molded. I mean just you know Look at the quote-unquote public school system And I mean how many people who went through those in the UK went through just horrendous abuse both sexually and physically as children then I mean This is what they were using to mold the future leaders of the empire. You know, that kind of tradition was brought to some extent to the elite prep schools and one have you that we have here in the US that our own future rulers are sent too. So I mean it's just this disgusting culture that's really been institutionalized in the ruling elite for quite a considerable amount of time now and

55:34 I think it's a big part of why there are so many sociopaths if not outright psychopaths running the world today. Hmm, I concur but it is impressive work man! So detailed and very important history lesson for people before we close out remind folks where they can get the book when the next one coming out and what's going on with the podcast all that good stuff? Alright well you can get both of these books at Amazon right now Also, I would strongly urge you guys to check out my podcast that is thefarmpodcast.com You know we've got all kinds of great guests on there Christopher Knowles I've had Gordon White on of course as i mentioned before Robert Guffey Peter Robbins Douglas Valentine Richard B Spence and More recently start to do a subscriber section with exclusive gifts and content And I've already had Knowles on there have had Adam go rightly Greg Bishop more Richard B Spence

56:32 I've got some great gifts lined up in the futures and there's also exclusive content in there as well. I had a great episode on there about the early histories of ARGs with David Metcalf, who was known Joseph Miftheni for awhile so that gives you an insider account on how all this stuff came to be, the possibility being linked to Cambridge Analytica and that type of thing. Definitely consider checking me out there And the next book that I'm working on is kind of going to be into the secret history of conspiratainment. We're gonna get into some of the Rasha Khrushchev stuff that have been talking about here, The origins of the QAnon thing, that kind of history of ARGs and course all things discordianism lots of stuff on discordianism and the insane amount of influence that it has had on a culture at large

57:24 If you're a fan of like 80s counterculture, I mean i'm gonna get into all this stuff. The church and subgenius chaos magic temple the psychic youth it's going to be pretty crazy It's definitely one of the strangest things that i've ever tried to do But yeah, I think it's going to be really cool And then I'm also trying to work on a documentary on top of everything else too. So staying busy and also helping the Pennyroyal guys with their whole thing again, you know? I love stuff with mythology and they definitely have some great takes on that so check out Pennyroyal 2 folks! Awesome man sounds fun. I look forward to it always a pleasure to talk to you again Take care out there and keep fighting the good fight

58:08 Thanks so much for having me back on man. Always a pleasure to talk to you as well Cheers There we go. All right guys always a good time with recluse glad he is taking this mountain of research that he really knows like the back of his hand and finding a way to Monetize it in book form two books so far and at least two more in the works I am jealous of visibility to knuckle down like that. I just don't have it But a guy who is this knowledgeable and this dedicated definitely deserves to make a living from his work compared to what's passing for journalism out there these days. And I know we've talked about the Perfumo affair with him before, and this release is a little close to the Philip Fairbanks episode which was a similar type of subject matter but I am conscious of these things enough that I try to make sure even if we're in the same ballpark we're covering different threads and new information

59:06 Plus, I like to be good to people who have been good to me and Recluse has given us some awesome shows in the past. The first two i don't even think he had anything out there to promote really just his free blog so i think it's only right in this kind of situation where a colleague does release something that we give him the old THC bump right? It would be weird to say eh can't help you we've milked that cow But it is a great book and as sharp as his recall for detailed connections is, It's even sharper in writing. And when I saw his blog post titled The Game and this breakdown of Q as something related to the Zeketa 3301 thing...I was really impressed by that! I guess some people are talking about it but I guess I hadn't really come across it until his post Maybe you guys have but it makes a lot of sense to me

1:00:02 The use of 4chan, the general mystique. The timeline works out pretty well. The whole theme of cracking the code and sort of setting people up to self-congratulate themselves over it To get them swept up in something that feels super important I think it's a compelling case And I knew that was going to be at least fresh material for us and I wanted to make sure we hit it right Up at the top And it is disappointing to me because I kind of wanted Cicada 3301 to be something more. I liked the mystique around it and the mystery, but that's how its designed right? You're supposed to want to tumble down that rabbit hole!

1:00:40 And I was reading some random comments about this possible connection, and someone mentioned that apparently Whitney Webb has done some investigating of an Obama administration official—they didn't give a name—that had the idea of infiltrating the conspiracy community to convert them into being pro-government. Which is an odd thing to want or try to do But I'm definitely going to ask her about that next time we talk. And if it is just one big club, and party doesn't really matter then sure! It's at least an indication that the idea was floated out there... ...and look how it worked out. And talking too recluse about it a little bit was cathartic for me because at least I feel as if this is me putting the QAnon thing to bed. And I'm pretty happy with myself that I don't have to issue a big apology about my behavior in the Trump years

1:01:34 Some of my fellow podcast hosts drank that Kool-Aid pretty hard, as did some people who used to be some of my favorite guests. Sad to say! And it's not about me but I do remember before Trump was even elected Sam Tripoli had me on and he asked about it and I said you know it's really weird actually everybody feels frustrated and unrepresented by the options were given every election and every campaign has a target I think i actually said they cast nets to capture certain kinds of people, and for some reason the Trump campaign had cast a net with a conspiracy enthusiast shaped pattern. We all saw that it's nothing groundbreaking but I did consider it a targeted effort from the beginning rather than something genuine

1:02:25 You always gotta reject those savior motifs, but the things I found most interesting about the Trump QAnon material in general or just his election is really things like the Baron Trump Hollow Earth book which someone did remind me in the third book. In that series it's called The Last President and there is a riot that isn't exactly on-the-day but its really early January in the book world And it's a pretty close match for something that was written decades ago. But that and the Sonora Aero Club airship image that said Trump across the top, and the number 45 or 4500 series I think it is... Those things are eerie! Is it just the echoes of a potent era picked up by artists in the past? And potentially future just like 9-11 references

1:03:18 Something that grabs so much attention that it sends ripples out in both directions through the collective unconscious? I don't know. Or maybe these Sonora Arrow Club images aren't as old as reported, and maybe they were part of the whole thing... The ARG, as Rekluse would say. But if they were a setup for Q you'd think they'd be less obscure. I mean who talks about these Sonora Arrow Club images except us really And then of course the MIT uncle who had access to Tesla's work has to make you think. But that's really the only parts I was truly interested in. Draining the swamp is just typical political rhetoric, The whole idea of untangling the dark aspects of child abuse human trafficking and child-abuse based honeypot blackmail operations from government and intelligence agencies was never something that rang true to me because it's too foundational to how these groups operate

1:04:16 It's like, once you know nuclear weapons exist—or do they? But let's just say they do. And they work really well for what you want to do! You can't just get rid of them and pretend that don't exist. What I'm saying is that once they know they can completely compromise and control politicians and influential CEOs by getting them hammered and bringing some underage kids to the party in a surveillance mansion late into the night there is zero chance they're going to stop doing it. And I wish it wasn't like that, but I think a lot of us know that it is. So anytime we have this kind of... We're gonna change things once and for all and forever! Kind of rhetoric, I definitely do a hard eye roll because things have never really changed

1:05:08 I like talking to people like Recluse and many of our guests so that i can get a more accurate and raw look at the way things actually work. Not because...I think we're gonna topple it all, And I believe that we can all navigate reality better if we have a truer picture of it Even if that means knowing that its fucked forever and its best just keep it all at arm's length When you know the kind of things we've been talking about on THC for a full decade now It seems to me like you should never get caught up in any of these official narratives or the goings-on of the political circus. If we've never even seen a real 9-11 investigation, we can pretty much give up hope of anything more radical than that and I'm not trying to be a downer it's actually a positive thing for the individual because we stop putting our confidence and hopes and dreams in places they don't belong

1:06:01 Stop pushing the boulder up the impossible hill thinking this time it's going to be different and all that. Nobody is coming to help us, take charge of your own life and make it the best you can! Be the head of your own pyramid as I had encoded on one of the T-shirt designs for the THC store Actually its kind of funny because that shirt which is one my favorites It sort of has a cicada 3301 style to it especially the bee part But the message is pretty much the polar opposite. I don't know, i don't talk much about the merch store for THC and the designs we have there but check it out that is a good one! As for Hireside News...

1:06:48 Noagenda has one through a Mastodon instance. Gramerica has a Mastodon instance and a Mattermost server. RuneSoup has the Ansible based on one of these open source encrypted platforms, and I don't want to be left behind so gotta keep an eye on these things because we just have the boring old forum Or so I thought, and this is kind of embarrassing. But all this time...I've had it for years and i've never really dug into the forum all that much. I kind of built it for you guys So plus people could find each other and support each other And we could get off Facebook etc.,etc.. It never really took off but I got in there the other day and realized that its a lot more robust of a platform than I initially thought

1:07:36 I've never been a big forum guy myself, but when i actually got under the hood of this thing it is a full social media platform even outside of that forum component. It's got profile pages just like Facebook. It has the ability to write statuses that can be liked and commented on just like Facebook or Twitter It's got a news feed on the sidebar that shows the latest statuses of all members. And I had forgotten that at the time, I paid extra for the media add-on so it has this whole section for sharing images and videos that can also be browsed in a big list rather than going to each individual post and thread. It kind of aggregates all the media that anyone is posting, and then you can sort by how many likes these videos have gotten and that makes it just like Reddit! So I don't know is just really eye-opening how we already have this tool right there And I think it's gonna be what I use from now on

1:08:38 If I think of something that would make a good tweet or if i stumble on a video that I want to share with you guys, I'm just going to be putting it there rather than trying to build some new community platform from scratch. Because our forum has over 10 000 members already! Remember that anyone who's ever had a THC Plus account even for just one month has access to that and their username and password still work even if they canceled their membership to the Plus Show itself. And on top of everything, the forum platform I used did just get a huge update and they included a mobile app for free! I haven't really worked through it...I haven't configured it all yet but it looks really great on mobile and even if you've ever had just a website in your mobile browser and then use the add-to-home screen option that's what I did just in the meantime

1:09:34 And it's really slick. Just as nice as anything, and I already paid for it AND we're already 10k strong! Now if only had 10k active THC members... ...I'd never have another money concern in my life But that's a different story and a different goal of mine to work towards. I'm already working on getting the right crystals so don't worry about me but just the fact that SensePlus started several years ago 10,000 people have thought it was worth it to jump in even temporarily. And that's something I am very thankful for But let's get in there at thehiresideforum.com and make it a fun place to be Forget Telegram and Gab and all these new things We already got something! And its private...and Im in control of it..And its outside the prying eyes of your Facebook friends and family and all that kind of stuff

1:10:29 I'm gonna tweak some things to make it even better, add some new threads maybe but we're in a good place with it already. If you've never been a Plus Member and you listen to the first free hour sometimes for years haven't I earned it yet? Don't we need to invest in things that are valuable so our only options aren't the products and services of The Big Machine? I get a lot of emails where people say hey I love your show never been a plus member but you should get this guest back on And I'm like, how about you sign up for Plus and there's a whole other hour show where they already were on. And you just haven't heard it yet? I say this all the time but I purposely don't tease you with the Plus Show. I try to make the free show seem complete and that's kind of to my detriment because people don't realize what they're missing

1:11:21 And I'm telling you, it's a lot. In the Plush Show today we talked about the left-wing Q like ARG The World Commerce Corporation drug running and big pharma looted Nazi assets early drug running stories that we probably haven't heard way before the CIA cocaine thing The figure in history best described as a conspiracy theorist sweat dream come to life Hi Strangeness at Loch Ness, Steven Ward Black Magic Sex Parties and the Proto-Epstein. The two Ward girls that ensnared JFK Robert Maxwell the Maxwell sisters in software backdoors GME internet blackouts an online ID And of course what conversations complete without a little bit about Westworld Season 3 We covered it all where are ya?

1:12:17 So you can get all of that and hundreds of extra hours with all our previous guests, the whole THC Forum platform, the songs I used for the end of this show and the joint session bonus shows which by the way leave me a message at thehiresidechats.com slash voicemail and i'll probably play it on the next one which will be in just a few days. I'm all fired up! I haven't really recorded in awhile...I've been kind of just sitting around the house desperate for Outside human contact, but that's the show. I thought it was a good one Not too sure about recluses take on the Rosa Christian thing Maybe he's right? I guess I hadn't even really ever considered that it wasn't a real organization Does that make these Sir Francis Bacon stuff just lore? I mean It has a lore like feel and mystique to it But still I guess it is sort of what Court Lindahl gets into with the Arcadian mysteries and American lore seeding

1:13:17 So maybe it's not completely outside of the box, but who knows what is real anymore. I'm glad we could talk about the Q thing in The Capital Incident most people are probably sick of hearing about it and...I just wanted to get a conversation like this on the record in the archive and then leave it be Maybe I am too optimistic in thinking that the Q phenomenon is fizzling out Rekluse certainly doesn't think so Or at least he thinks there will be another incarnation Q2 the squeakquel But I have never been one to obsess about this thing and i'm sure even the capital event talk will ruffle some feathers because so many people think it's dangerous to even consider the story to be different than presented on tv. The election is the same story but, I am not invested in any narrative around these two topics. I'm not emotional about considering any angle or really anything our guests are going to say

1:14:15 Honestly, I don't care if you lean left or right. None of this government represents us or the way we would prefer to govern and interact with the world So stop drawing a line between left and right And redraw it between the elite and the rest of us for the umpteenth time! When i start saying totally obvious things...I know its time to wrap up But thanks again to Recluse Thanks to you guys, I'm getting out of here. Your move honeypot operators deep state deceivers and internet code crackers your fucking move We dream to the elite Out on THC Uncovering secrets and conspiracies Everybody's looking for something Some of them want to use you

1:15:09 Some of them want to get used by you. Some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused. Sweet themes on DHC Who the hell could disagree? We know the rabbit hole goes deep Everybody's digging for something Them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you

1:16:00 Some of them want to be a...