Shamangineer | Fascism: The History, The Psychology, & The Re-emergence

00:07 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man Until we've thoroughly tested every last closed chested view You'll find the more you think you know, less you really do Where would we be without THC? We know the lying to us just don't know to what degree. Where would we be without THC, The highest side chad show? Great Carl Wood and company

00:57 Alright, Hiresight Chatters. We know the world is a Game of Thrones-style tug of war for power influence and control among ever emerging think tanks consortiums and cabals whose only true common ground is the acknowledgement that people are a resource to be slowly drained and exploited if you can only get them to believe your on their side To me that's history in a nutshell, and our modern era is no different. Just slow erosion of any ground that has been gained with the oily appendages of these nefarious factions relentlessly creeping in from all sides. Yes it seems the only true choice for people is how we want our centralized top-down authoritarian system packaged and gift wrapped because for all the talk about social structures political philosophies and personal utopias those seem to be the irremovable yokes and shackles around our necks

01:48 Well folks, a deep dive into these very issues is the offering on the higher side table today as our resident alchemy and alternative science expert Shaman Janir has requested we take a break from our elemental series to explore fascism more closely. So let's get into it. He taught us about ether and ORMIS in show 1, broke down earth alchemy and advanced permaculture practices in show 2, and of course explained the forefront of water science and the suppressed and unknown qualities of H2O in Show 3! Here again to blow more minds than the US military, Shaman Janir my man, welcome back. Excellent as always you got the best introductions on the web so... Ah just the old 9-5

02:31 So I'll dive right into it. Basically, what we're discussing today is fascism. Sure you know and for most people you know fascism has this kind of dual nature one people will describe it one way when people described another way depending on your view but right now I'm going to go ahead and get into the historical perspective and then we can build it up from there. How's that sound? That sounds great First of all, in the 18th century when the United States was founded there were basically two modes of thought with regard to government.

03:09 So there was the Jeffersonian and the Hamiltonian, or the Federalist and Republican stances. Now, the Federalist was a Hamiltonian version where big government and federal authority was paramount and it overrode the state's rights and small government was basically involved in the Jeffersonian stance as well as state authority being Jeffersonian. Each of these philosophies is, of course taking place within the democratic context so that positions of authority are granted by the will of people at the ballot box. But also in this context there's a hierarchical bureaucracy. These arguments are still alive today but basically the federalist standpoint of federal authority and big government has continued to gain more footing with time

04:00 One thing that which is not really discussed at all today, is the role that corporations played after the revolution in this country and it was extremely limited. It was understood that these artificial constructs had a potential to undermine the fledgling democracy and should be limited to prevent abuse of power The Colonials had fought too hard against the Hudson Bay and East India Tea Company, whose tea was tossed overboard during the Boston Tea Party to allow large businesses to spring up after the foundation of the United States. To accomplish this corporations were creations at the state level founded to accomplish a specific task for set period of time

04:40 And they cannot participate in politics, neither could the own stock and other corporations. And they were ultimately responsible to the people if it was found that a corporation was violating its charter by acting against the public good, it would be expanded and people who were found responsible for the violation reliable for damages incurred so initially this worked well and in the eighteen hundreds There were about 200 corporations that were doing what they were chartered to do, and with a few exceptions especially the first and second banks of America. They remained within the bounds of their charter I think that's really interesting because we talk a lot about the founders trying to get away from various forms of oppression but they were dealing with companies like the Hudson Bay company or the East India tea company in particular so they were very wise too how out-of-control corporations can get and so here you see all these regulations on them to try to keep them, bound to the people

05:37 And of course, as time goes on they erode that. But it is interesting to go back and think about corporations in that context because it's really underreported on. Definitely. And I mean in the 1850s there were very strong antitrust regulations so Basically at that point before the thirties even you had a very contained corporate influence in this country now what changed was basically during the civil war. Corporations made huge profits from procurement contracts. They took advantage of the disorder to corrupt and buy the legislators, even presidents and corporations became the masters and keepers of business what Abraham Lincoln said was corporations have been enthroned in era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working

06:33 On the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and public is destroyed so. In the wake of this war restrictions the power really by corporations was greatly red they had laws governing their creation amended state charters can no longer be revoked corporate profits can no longer be limited, and corporate economic activity could be restrained only by the courts in hundreds of cases granted corporations minor legal victories conceding rights and privileges they had not seen before. See, that makes total sense too just because how many times in history have we seen these cabals use times of war and chaos to further their own agendas behind the curtain while everybody's focused on the battlefield?

07:20 Absolutely. I mean, basically that's move number one. If you want to do something start a war first or cause an attack or something along those lines Right, but I wonder how many people ever really think about corporate power changing to such a degree because of the distraction of the Civil War. Of course it's not only a distraction but for the things that happened behind the curtain these changes in the structure of corporations, i mean... It changed the world! Definitely definitely That is what gave rise to the Robert Barons

07:57 And actually, most people think that Citizens United was what made private corporations a natural citizen under the US Constitution. But it actually goes much further back than that in the Santa Clara County versus Southern Pacific Railroad there was a dispute over rail bed route and the U.S. Supreme Court deemed that a private corporation was a natural person under the US Constitution and therefore entitled to protection under the Bill of Rights And at that point corporations enjoyed the same rights and sovereignty. That was enjoyed by the average citizen and more so because of their power influence and i wasn't eighteen eighty six so i got nineteen twenty, the corporation's actually employed more than eighty percent of workforce in united states so in forty fifty years

08:49 They came to dominate everything that was actually the point where small business was not really a factor in terms of driving boats or anything like that. the politicians didn't care about small business at that point. It was only big business, big trusts and big corporations. Right it seems to kind of parallel the struggle early America had with banking as well you know we've gone through several iterations of federal reserves or central banks before we got the one that really stuck but it did seem like a back and forth between people who have seen these problems before trying to make a new type of civilization society

09:27 kept the more in check and then these same old forces just trying to weasel their way and relentlessly they're just so persistent that it's hard to keep me in check for sure. Yeah and the next place where there was you know really big movement with regards to this is actually no during wall street crash things like that so you know at that point There are millions of people out of work and there are red lines in the end, people were jumping on rail cars to try and find work where i really good at that point basically is when fdr. Set you know we need a new deal and when he said that wall street was panicking because they're like oh my gosh can't have

10:19 all this progressive stuff, all this more socialized workforce coming through because it'll basically erode what we've been building up since the Civil War. And so at the time fascism was growing in Europe and they decided to see what they could do in terms of fomenting a fascist coup in the United States And so in order to start a coup in the United States, somebody was sent to Germany to see what was going on over there. And that was Gerald McGuire and when he finished his scouting trip, he was basically used to approach the champion of the soldier and that was Major General Smedley Butler. So basically what they wanted to do was take

11:12 this large group of veterans who'd been protesting and used them to act as kind of a brown shirt organization, to take over DC. And the reason why there was all this anger from these veterans was because at the end of World War I they were given $60 and a train ticket home as the extent of their mustering out pay. Now, veterans associations were formed to try and get a better deal and they ended up getting an agreement where they would each be provided about $1,000 in the form of bonus certificate that would grow with value over the years and it would be able to be cashed out in 20 years so when The Great Depression struck

11:58 A lot of these veterans ended up losing their jobs. They didn't have anything at that point, and they started basically a tent city in Washington DC to try and get their pensions paid out And smithley butler was actually somebody who is there speaking out for the veterans at times if you want a lot of favor with them from that also during world war one. He was in charge of camp in europe and all people who went through their saw him as someone who is really pro soldier, Who is always trying to stand up for them and give them what they needed to be happy and do their job so. What's your wire basically what he said was you know we're gonna have an organization it's gonna start out and it's going to help find and help promote you and your movements

12:58 And right now we're just going to get it out there. And that was the American Liberty League And the people who are in support of that were people like General Foods, makers of Maxwell House Coffee, Birdseye, Colgate. U.S. Steel, Heinz, General Motors... You know a lot of that came out during the McCormick-Dixting Committee which was an investigation about this after Smedley Butler and a reporter he basically brought into his confidence brought their evidence to Congress Right I thought that was just a fascinating chapter of history that isn't talked about. I watched that plot to overthrow FDR documentary that you sent and it is just so crazy that you have this again really generically named Liberty League,

13:46 Cooked up by the heads of these very corporations that we know are clearly not the good guys and the documentary they also say JP Morgan was a big financial backer of this so, Of course these should be red flags that are like wait a second I don't know if i want what these guys want. And sure enough they tried to stage this coup and it wasn't for Butler being like actually im not gonna lead a revolution against the president It could have happened Yeah well they were talking about i think five or six hundred thousand veterans marching on dc crossing rubicon in order to cement this. And basically cause a transition and also i think prescott bush was involved at some degree with this right,

14:33 Yeah, I believe Hamburg American Line or UBS the bank that he was in charge of was involved with the American Liberty League but both the Hamburg American Line and UBS for union banking were involved in banking with the Nazis funding them during the war. And the Hamburg American line was also involved in transporting american journalists to Nazi Germany and Nazi spies coming back on the boats, on their way back prior to the war. So he was definitely tied up in all this and actually Prescott Bush was the father of Herbert Walker Bush And The ties you know continued when you know Herbert Walker Bush

15:23 was running for president against, I think it was Clinton. The second time around he had to basically expunge some people from his campaign who were...I mean these weren't just Nazi sympathizers they were full-blown Nazi war criminals! So that's the level of connection, it's like direct. It's a direct connection right there and then basically you know these ties continued through to the younger Bush during his years, you know just not to as prominent a degree is that. Right anyone can fast forward kind of from the FDR chapter we're talking about and see The successes and failures of the fascists in America clearly they got pretty high on the pyramid as time went on Yeah so well I mean

16:14 I believe it's Glenn Eden talks about the CIA itself being a basically Nazi fascist organization that its founding, the OSS. It was largely made up of military people and Wall Street people who were recruited from Wall Street. And it's like why are they recruiting You know financial advisors and stockbrokers and stuff like that. It's because you know, there were kind of two groups in the OSS There was those who are primarily about the military side but then there were people who are making sure that they'd be fulfilling financial interests. And it was more the financial interests that took over the leadership as the CIA was founded, and also there were just huge influx of paperclip Nazis that were joining the ranks as well basically they were getting their hands on anybody they could to make sure that you know they stayed out of the Soviets' hands

17:06 Right and I love that concept of Nazi survival the kind of stuff that Joseph Farrell and Catherine Austin Fitz talk about, they take it into that realm of tracking the black budget as evidence for a breakaway civilization born out of this Nazi survival. Farrell uses the term fascist international quite a bit and it is just fascinating because there definitely seems to be evidence that plan was in place when you look at things like The Red House report And it they talk about an eventual reemergence and so it does make you curious how long it would lay dormant before that reemergence what happened. Well in the report they talked about basically initially being a economic coalition, and then at some point it would kind of foment into the right.

17:56 there would be this political conversion that would take place. And I think that we've seen with the creation of the EU, and we've gone through those financial cycles since 2008 where every time Greece is hard up for cash who do they go running to? It's Germany! because Germany is really kind of the economic hegemony of the EU. Then just recently, Germany started to consolidate their military with other European military units and I think that's part of the implementation that second part of The Red House Report

18:36 And one of the articles you had sent me about that even talks about the very specific three-part plan that involves embedding their people in certain corporations and laying low in that regard. It's like, yeah, a lot of that has happened! What are the big corporations? The oil industry, Big Pharma which is petrochemicals and we always talk about on conspiracy shows like this eugenics campaigns which is Nazi ideology. And a lot of German companies do seem to still be at the head of their respective industries. Well you talked about eugenics and the Nazi eugenics program was actually based on American eugenics programs in the early 20th century

19:24 Also, even today some of the heads of the Human Genome Project are grandsons of Nazi sympathizers. One of them was a grandson of Dulles and another one was a grandson of Harriman. So, brown brothers Harriman so... You know that the elites love to keep things within the family they are obsessed with their bloodlines and everything like that deals in part with why this stuff keeps getting handed down right. It didn't seem like world war two had a good way to end except for them to go underground you know it's not like the nazis necessarily lost the war they just kind of dispersed,

20:06 So basically during the war, many industrialists in the United States and in Britain were involved with supporting the Nazis. Supporters in America included Remington Ford GM GE IBM Standard Oil DuPont also that the Nazi propaganda machine was based off of Edward Bernays' propaganda techniques and things like that that were developed after World War One Any american education system was also based on german education when i was set up i mean this is prior to the work that was set up in the late nineteen thirty twentieth century with carnegie's another industrialist setting up these schools and they're basically two things there was the

20:55 caste system in India, that's why we have school districts and then the other thing was course training techniques which were eventually turned into a indoctrination program By the Weimar Republic. And so those were the two bases that went into creating our modern-day educational system of United States mm-hmm, so getting back to the transactions that were going on during the war. FDR knew that there was money and weapons and fuel, ammunition that were being provided to Germany through these American companies. And often intermediary in one of the neutral countries like Switzerland or Norway or things like that. Those intermediaries would get their cut then they forwarded on to Germans. So a lot of these business contacts were what

21:53 The Germans ended up utilizing once they got out of the country and those rat lines that were used to get the Germans out of the country, we're actually founded by. The catholic church because they had basically diplomatic immunity for careers and they would be able to coordinate this without anybody stumbling across it And they also helped to fund the Nazis and they didn't want that to be known. So they ended up helping them with their survival plan. And actually at the end of the war,

22:33 We're basically coming in and you know the british things like that but the groups are basically founded to control post war germany were actually being seated with these nazi sympathizers. And they told the allies, To go talk to the catholic priest in each of those towns to find out who were good people to run that town or run this industry around. as that transition to place who do you think they are it's like classic regulatory capture at something we talk about all the time that, the fda is not actually there for your safety these agencies that we think are in place to protect us from. The various corporations that really don't give a fuck their justice compromise but only provides a false sense of security and that of course gets into

23:31 left and right feelings about these agencies that people on the far right would be like let's get rid of them cuz they're no good it's like well, that seems like it's not gonna be any better the point is we need to make them work for us not disband them completely otherwise we will just have glyphosate soaked crops and everybody'll be on petrochemical pills more than they already are. Well regulatory agencies nowadays there are no paper tigers or two lions everyone calm. They're just kind of a placeholder for what we should really have but i'm actually act as more shield, where is corporate and industrial interests because they present this public side doing stuff when actually there's just kinda like

24:19 Pressing the eyes and dotting t's or something like that right and then they become the dominant authorities on what's good in a certain sector and so then it also works against the alternatives that we've talked about in the past which is like people start to think oh well if. If something doesn't have that FDA stamp of approval, it's probably not going to work or might even be harmful. So you're gambling with your own health and safety if you don't trust the experts! It really is like a double whammy for people and a serious win-win for these guys Yeah so getting back to the end of the war. FDR knew that you know a lot of these transactions were taking place but he actually died just a few weeks after, the end of the war and what is plan had been was once the allies came into germany they are gonna get hold up the german bankers have them finger their accomplices in united states

25:16 But because of his death, and he was holding all of his contacts about who he knew about who were Nazi sympathizers in the United States. Once he died that didn't really go anywhere because he was keeping it so close. He didn't really tell anybody what was going on because we feared that it might get out to the wrong people. So that's one of the big reasons why after the war It was just allowed to flourish. Yeah So at this point, I think it's probably best to start going into Reich and Reich's views on fascism. Fair enough before we go into that. I just wanted to ask and maybe step back and say you know we're doing this elemental series why step in and do a fascism episode specifically now like we really didn't say up front why this does seem to be so timely in your opinion or why might be so important right now to get into the history fascinating as it is?

26:13 Well, I mean i've been keeping an eye on this for a while and you know A lot of my research in operation vladio touched on this and things like that. So It really has to do a lot with what we're seeing today in terms of the political climate You're seeing nazis marching in the streets And you're seeing this clash of ideologies That's happening all over america between families, you know and and between different groups that are allying each other. And just the whole way it's going seems like you know it's all being kind of steered towards fascism either way right when you look at a lot of what's going on in the left and on the right they're both talking about you know I mean just looking okay we

27:04 There's a whole fake news thing going on and what's the response is to say okay well we're gonna say this is fake news are gonna stay that's fake news. It's just kind of like ranking systems algorithms you know not things actually, would explain why or what's the methodology that's going into this is kinda like here's whats good for ya eat up Exactly it's like it easy to criticize the right of course right now because they are the party in power but you are correct and that seems becoming from both sides just because both sides are so polarized such extremes at the idea cooperation is impossible so then becomes why does need to get my way how do you get your way as fascism you know you get your way with

27:52 dictators and authority and centralized control. And the left has got this punch a Nazi meme, which from a centrist interpretation is punch anyone who doesn't agree with me as long as they're labeled a Nazi it's okay to incite violence against them you got them doing the word police stuff attacking all these comedians they want everything to be PC I mean this is nanny state type stuff I fucking hate it. But then of course on the right you look at Trump's cabinet, people-I don't know how people think this guy is on their side you can just go down the list actually took a big list out one of the articles that you gave me and it says that

28:35 Five of the 15 people nominated by Trump as cabinet secretaries have no public sector experience and have only spent their entire careers in the corporate sector. That would be more businesspeople with no public sector experience than ever served in any cabinet at any one time that Betsy DeVos chick, she's the education secretary. She has been a billionaire married to an Amway conglomerate Andrew Putzder has been nominated as Labor Secretary. He's a billionaire CEO of the fast food chain. Don't forget DeVos' brother is head of Blackwater

29:15 Right right another connection that will burrow sky who is a nominee for commerce secretary he's up billionaire finance here who invests in buying and selling companies in distressed industries specifically made his entire fortune or who made his early fortune as a fund manager at the rothschild group it just Crazy Vincent viola trump's nominee for army secretary he's a billionaire former chairman of the new york mercantile exchange these are all connected people. Gary cone worked for goldman sachs so like if you're gonna criticize obama cabinet for being stacked with cfr members and lawyers that work for banks

30:00 You gotta do the same thing here. What about Rex Tillerson? The dude from ExxonMobil, like he is not a good candidate for Secretary of State just because he ran a fucking oil company! So it really is sickening to see these exact same people in a cabinet of what's thought to be the polar opposite party. It's just nonsense. Yeah I agree completely Before we get to the Reich stuff, I think I'll talk about Operation Gladio, Carol Rosin and Wernher von Braun and a bit more of the Red House plan. That's okay? Sure! Absolutely So one of the things that you know i think is worth mentioning with regard to the Nazis Is also that there's a witness in the form of Dr. Carol Rosen She used to work with Werner Von Braun when he was at Fairchild Industries

30:52 And what he told her, he was dying of cancer at the time. Was basically that there's gonna be a push for space based weapons and there's gonna be several phases to what's going to driving this? The first is basically the communists which she already saw it in time and then he said it was going to be basically terrorists, countries of interest what we call them now but like you know third party tinpot dictators. Then it was going to be asteroids and then an alien invasion is what he told her and right? And what he said was, You know, and it's all made up none of its true It's all complete fiction So the thing is that right there There's a well known Nazi

31:43 Who was it high enough level to actually know what the heck is going on with this stuff and another thing that's interesting about bronze heated some disney documentary films and stuff like that there is one about space travel. And in that he actually said that the future of space job was electric gravity craft so that's not a very interesting thing But basically what he was alluding to there with terrorism, was what has been known today as Operation Gladio. So at the end of World War II, basically what's happening is Germany split down the middle you've got half of Germany over on the Soviet side and half of Germany on NATO side

32:29 What a great way for it to end, for Germany to be able to play both sides off of each other. Right? And actually when they were picking out people to be in charge of things in Germany during that reconstruction period the person they chose was I can't remember his name off the top my head right now but he was basically an SS general who was put in charge of the secret services And he started what they call the state behind missions and ran them in europe and those are where they had different units of soldiers from the allies but also a lot more former nazis who were embedded in sales within europe.

33:14 The initial plan for this was, okay they're there in case of a Soviet invasion. But basically once you had nuclear weapons take prominence in the 60s, basically once the stockpiles were built up on both sides and it was kind of this well we don't want mutually assured destruction so kinda ground war isn't really on the plate for right now There became this emphasis on clandestine operations and being able to leverage these people in the case of domestic threats. So, in this case what

33:51 What that meant was if there was opposition to certain policies, if there was a rising communist movement within the country and there was a vote coming up then you'd see more of these terrorist attacks happen to kind of steer the country away from communism by these...you know, you basically got Nazis Being involved in all this but what they're doing is there creating these terrorist attacks and then false flag blaming them on com. Of course we left yeah and so that's kind of the foundation and this is you know basically from nineteen forties and fifties up through to the nineties that this is going on

34:37 So you're talking about fifty years and then what happened was when it came out there is this guy who is involved in one of these organizations he went to the press. And when he did that, it kind of blew this whole thing open. It turned out that the secret services of all these different countries were involved basically everybody in NATO as well as the United States and the CIA was involved MI6 was involved you know all these kinda clandestine groups and it was this big brouhaha so basically those operations went inactive at that time but there were also

35:17 Operations that are set up in Greece and Turkey, and Turkey was what actually things fell back to. And kind of the more European operations up to the 90s Daniel Ganser he does a very good job discussing those going into Turkey and kind of the proliferation of The what's called gladiobee networks where you start getting into Arab terrorists and things like that That's covered by Sabel Edmonds who was a Turkish translator working at the FBI at the time And she actually stumbled across, you know A cell within the FBI that was trying to derail her investigations in the line 11.

36:01 her partner on the Boiling Frogs post podcast, James Corbett. He does a very good job of elaborating on how that's grown into this Islamic network and how it's gone back into Europe and things like that. Actually one thing that's very important to note with all this is that Muhammad Atta, one of the hijackers in 9-11 He was actually he already knew how to fly when he was learning how to fly in the United States and Florida. And we had like, you know four different passports and identities and things like that this is all coming from his girlfriend there's a very good interview by the maker of the documentary Muhammad on his flying circus and that's available on YouTube but she basically talks about

36:50 Him, you know like doing cocaine drinking all the time. You know he always had you know lots and lots of money He was going to like strip clubs And not really the profile of a you know adherent Islamicist more of like okay fly by night CIA operative or something And when she says that, like he was hanging out with South Africans and Austrians. And when he actually got his orders for what he was going to do the guy who met with him, his name was Reinhardt So you know, you're talking about this same sort of group and actually Osama bin Laden, when he was growing up He was like being bounced on the knees of Nazis

37:40 because there was this whole relationship between Arab fascists and actually, there are all sorts of different fascist in different countries who actually went to work for the SS. There was an Indian SS contingent Turkish SS contingents like all these different countries And actually in Turkey there was a general called Ataturk was the one who slaughtered and killed millions of Armenians. And that was the model that Hitler used for his exterminations.

38:18 So, you know there's all these ties between the Germans and these Arab fascists. The primary group is the Muslim Brotherhood. And all this stuff that we're seeing today in terms of terrorist attacks I think it all kind of really boils down to this Nazi survival, this Nazi network that survived the war and actually Reinhard Galen was the head of German intelligence after the war, the SS General And he was the one who was really pumping up Truman right after the war to see Russia as a threat.

38:55 like he was forwarding all this false intelligence telling him what they were doing that they weren't really doing. Well let me ask you this just because I know it's going to come up in the comments section and a lot of listeners might be thinking, what about Israel's involvement in state-sponsored terrorism? Because in events like the Charlie Hebdo situation it seems like you can reverse engineer it look back from that point and see that world leaders who tended to be criticizing Israel's actions they seem to be the countries who soon after got hit with some form of terrorism. So I felt like that was a pretty sound conclusion and, I don't think it has to be either or of course it's always like anyone who spends time on the Nazis you'll get comments oh well your distracting from the spotlight which should be on Israel and vice versa but I do not understand why it can't be both

39:51 But I don't know, I guess I would just ask you how would you fold that in? Well so anybody who really takes an objective look at Israel. Who are the Jewish fascists right? Look what they're doing to the Palestinians! If that isn't a multi-mile concentration camp then I don't know what is. So basically the Zionists were kind of Jewish fascists And they wanted to impose their authority on the Holy Land and take that over. And that was something that was basically implemented at the end of World War II, but leading up to that Hitler actually struck a deal with Zionists before the final plan was implemented he would allow Zionist Jews to leave the country and go to Palestine. So the Zionists were setting up little colonies in Palestine even before the war

40:45 So, you know it's a kind of subtle thing because especially since most people don't know about that. But I mean, when you look at the aftermath in terms of what has happened to the people who used to live on on the land. You can see that clearly it's not a wholesome expression of government over there. Of course and I didn't mean to take you off track but it just seems to be one of those things that you have to mention on a show like this fascism comes in many different wrappers and many different flavors and

41:22 You'd be crazy not to oppose all of it. Oh, definitely and we're going to get into more that as we continue there enough so you can't break up the trucks because they're so big yes indeed Now i think we're ready for a right sure sure so will home right you talked about him before he was here is a contemporary of. But one thing that you know we haven't talked about really is his talks and books about the role of bashes them, And he wrote a book called the mass psychology of fascism and actually, he was pursued by both the SS and KGB across multiple countries. So... He's someone who is very familiar- He was also visited by the FBI but that was basically to make sure that he wasn't Nazi once he came to America I wanted to read this from our emails where you

42:19 say just with a little more detail what you pretty much just said and that Reich was pursued by the SS, KGB and FBI over his theories research in books. There is also substantial evidence that it was the KGB mole in the FBI that actually got the case against right started there resulted as incarceration and death shortly before its release of heart failure quote unquote but Reich, in fact sits alone as the sole person in the history of the United States to have been required to burn his own books and research materials in a small bonfire on the lawn or to have all copies of his books burned by court order in 1956 and 1960. He was also part of Nazi book burning so if there is an authoritarian entity anywhere near Dr. Reich

43:06 he seems to have caught their attention and immediate wrath. And I think that's just great to point out because it's like, yeah any ideas the elite want to crush those are ideas that I don't mind hearing about you know what I'm saying? Like clearly there's a reason to listen if no matter what side of the political spectrum they're on these authority figures are like No! Crush this! This has to go away Yeah definitely and I think that's probably a great place to start The way he discussed it was As reactionary and revolutionary thought. What I would characterize that is more authoritarian and egalitarian thought. Authoritarianism is a structure dominated by fear, centralized authority in psychological and sexual oppression. An egalitarian social structure is one which is characterized by respect consideration for all the decentralized authority and psychological and sexual freedom. I'd like to read a little bit

44:04 from that primer I gave you on authoritarian and egalitarian thought. Sure! To just kind of give some very clear examples and different modes of philosophy So, egalitarian values. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Reciprocity. Authoritarian values. Look strong, successful, rich. Your strength must control your weakness. Strong men must control the weak. Votes rule for egalitarians. Democracy rights is an effective vote. Equal opportunities and money in power An authoritarian values money rules. Oligarchy has the right to trick voters, they set privileges and ranks in money and power

44:48 egalitarian values or human rights, freedom of the press and info, emancipation integration voting rights women's suffrage equal pay for equal work nature conservation authoritarian values are property rights freedom to own the press slavery people as property segregation by race wealth pull taxes and intimidation women silence traditional roles rewards into exploit resources. There is some very clear differences in the way that these two philosophies think about how power should be expressed within the world.

45:25 Is there any arguments that these modes of expression of power are not still doing children primarily from education or later employment rather instruction the family. Has been discussed previously on your show for the first years and development their brain waves are such that they're actually kind of in trance for the first five to eight years of your life And that brainwave that's especially elevated is a Theta brainwave. And actually, one thing I'd like to mention is that about seven years is the length of time in anthroposophical schools where children's learning is characterized by play and they're encouraged to explore the environment with supervision from an adult so...

46:05 I mean even as far back as rudolf steiner there seems to have been he understood kind of what this what this meant in terms of how development should unfold so it's during this time that the child's boundaries are being set and their character is developing that has a prime role in development of their role in society. If during these formative years boundaries are set on pure authority, a child learns not to question authority as this is often met with punishment and the more egalitarian method of child rearing children are taught the reasons at a rudimentary level behind the boundaries being set and if questions are posed further answers are given these two modes of rearing may be characterized as patriarchal or matriarchal as each embodies either projective or receptive modes of expression

46:53 These modes of sexual expression allowable to children are also very different in these philosophical foundations. So, in his book, Reich discusses matriarchal families as being primarily characteristic of indigenous societies and patriarchal societies being characterized by civilized societies And if you look at kind of the way that they look at livestock In indigenous societies, typically what would happen is you would hunt. But the animal it's free to express itself and it moves throughout the land there aren't any fences blocking it off and its basically you know it is what it is and your just going out taking what you need whereas with the civilized societies they've decided to put

47:44 strict limits on the movement and behavior of their animals, domesticating them and basically dominating them for their control. And so I think this is something to take into consideration when you understand the ways that these two mindsets look at people, just other living creatures to begin with Matriarchal societies childhood sexual expression tends to be characterized by the choices of the child with guidance there allowed to play doctor and do whatever they want, is not something that's really start a pathological.

48:24 In patriarchal societies, childhood expression is characterized by its negation. Children and adolescents are discouraged at every turn from exploring their sexuality until biological maturity or marriage. And primarily in patriarchal societies traditionally it's been marriage so that's actually a way of controlling the rights of sexuality in the case of arranged marriages, which were often the case in the past. This repression prevents natural expression of a child's most basic biological drives and retarded and confined psychological development to child at its essence childhood is the act of adapting and developing biology to the environment and restrict that development as to embed pathology in the psychology of the child

49:12 Wright previously researched these mechanisms on his concepts of character and body armoring in his work, Character Analysis. Reich also speaks out about communism and the mass psychology of fascism. The communists suppressed Dr. Reich's theories, and we talked about him being pursued by the KGB now that actually happened as a result of a KGB agent who was writing articles for Harpers and The New Republic And one thing that is really interesting there is actually that same organization who was writing these articles

49:52 had Henry Wallace, the former vice president of FDR as one of the KGB agents involved. And he was actually kicked out of the FDR administration run for I believe his second term because of these affiliations. Interesting so let's just back up a little bit to some of Reichs ideas because I really am intrigued by extreme levels of control i just find it fascinating and whether its right or wrong i just like to explore those types of ideas so the thought that something like the nuclear family which in our society seems fairly automatic herself evident just from our contacts to think that could be engineered a model of father and mother as sole authority figures

50:45 being engineered to create a structured order like the separation from the tribe i guess most importantly prepare children for a life of servitude especially since like you say those first seven years of a child's life is when all the imprinting has done so creating this type of paradigm in those years is what might breed a culture that is okay with top-down control. I do find that to be an interesting idea, we've talked about it and the school system of course it's very obvious there but to think that it goes even deeper and even further back is quite compelling. I really don't know what to think about it but I liked the concept of exploring it

51:30 Well, so the thing is that basically what Reich notes in his book is that more tribal societies that were not really at a civilized level of development. What we would call civilization where there's large social structures and centralized authority you know you might have a council elders or things like that But it wasn't something you know where there is a huge amount of power that anyone can really have anybody else and people are always allowed to speak out. Your viewpoint in meetings with the elders and things like that so it has a lot to do with authority itself,

52:11 And the thing is as you civilized basically what you doing is your planning crops. You're getting livestock and you're basically trying to search your authority on nature so right there there's a inherent kind of authoritarian aspect to what people think of as the civilization procedure. And then also on top of that, as these societies start to grow they start to create cities where you have more separation between the production of food and consumption of food and you start to have more hierarchy and more bureaucracy that becomes involved if you need to extract more food from

52:59 People who are working at the periphery of the city defeated in order to be able to support the populations that you have and doing so. There's becomes a concentration of power and wealth See I always thought. I wanted an egalitarian lifestyle, but i've got friends who have visited several Communities and came away from them all pretty disappointed And during the occupied days I was pretty involved in the little sub community that popped up in San Diego with the whole lending libraries and group sharing types of experimentation and there was some

53:35 Real positivity about it but without some form of hierarchy i also just saw a lot of chaos we have some self appointed loudmouths taking the stage and because they were trying to get consensus for everything fifty people all had away in on the simplest things I guess one example would be there were older folks who came out and said look we wanna be here rallying against the one percent. But we've got to work tomorrow so for gonna stay down here in the city square we gotta have some quiet hours, any other bunch of homeless hippie kids saying well if you have a job that kinda sounds like your problem not mine we just want play music and spread joy

54:13 So there was just no direction and no accountability, and of course this is just one example. And there are other ways it can be done but the few examples I do have didn't seem as advantageous as i was expecting so i guess to make it a question why does it seem to me that communal living or egalitarian groups typically seem to be just scraping by rather than thriving if they could even get off the ground Well, what you're talking about is anarchy to start with. It was! And that's not really what you see in egalitarian societies. You see more input from the people who are involved in doing the work, and those societies were involved and actually maintaining the relationships with land but you can still have larger accumulations of people and you can have larger societal structures

55:13 as long as that link is maintained, that there is able to be this feedback. But as these indigenous societies become civilized it becomes almost too big to make that happen in a centralized way. Of course! Things tend to centralize as you get into these civilized structures Now there is evidence of being able to do this i mean there's one drug on and spain which is a worker engineering cooperative. And you know they basically have it so that people are able to vote in control how things are done within the company and they've been very successful so its not like

56:03 It can't be done in a civilized environment but it hasn't tended to work out that way. That's kind of something where, that had to be founded on its own to start with and there are more companies that are starting to look at that model but there still aren't a whole lot of examples. Right and that seems to be one of my issues is just that there aren't a ton examples of success in this area and it could be because of sabotage, you know co-opting. It could be the same reason why Reich's work was destroyed we don't want examples out there that show you a different way but I guess that leads us to a section about some of the solves for fascism and authoritarianism if it's so pervasive that the family structure schooling and our repressive sexuality are all tied up in

56:58 Maybe the aliens built us to be subservient maybe there is no other way what else can we do how can we be. I'd like to get back to that in a little bit if that's okay sure i'd like to continue talking about works work and then that is a part of rights work but, i'd like to get through this other section first let's do it to kind of explore the sexuality link a bit more, as well as brain anatomy and how that feeds into all this. I'd love to hear the data that supports that because it is kind of an out there idea! Yeah so i want to start to slog through that first... One notable difference between matriarchal and patriarchal societies which Reich does not discuss in great depth is the former marriage beyond the monogamous marriage

57:48 In his book, he considered it untenable and kept his discussion within the context of monogamous relationships. Polygamy has three main forms. There's polygyny, which is multiple wives, polyandry which is multiple husbands in group marriages which is multiple husbands and multiple wives of the 1231 societies listed in the 1980 ethnographic atlas 186 were found to be monogamous 453 had occasional polygyny and 588 had more frequent polygyny

58:23 And for head polyandry the expression of polygyny can be characterized by women having little say in the arrangement. Can be traded for some sort of some form of dowry political economic and religious favors being bestowed upon her father's family, Polyandry tends to be characterized by a especially harsh environment, lending to the need for greater stability in marriage. And this also tends to be arranged now the final form of group marriage is one that I find interesting because it can be tied to an example

59:02 another organism the bonobo chimpanzee Which has a very similar social structure. So I actually first found out about this phenomenon, I didn't even know it existed before I saw that documentary where they were talking about a Tibetan town and basically they showed you know women having multiple husbands and Husbands having multiple wives and it was the sort of thing where you know You might have two or three wives and she might one of your wives might have two or three husbands And you know, it was just kind of this fluid arrangement. We're okay if you don't really like each other anymore It isn't gonna destroy that family. You just kind of say okay Well our marriage is ended there isn't really any punishment Or anything that gets imposed on on the family as a result

59:51 And you just kind of end things and move on. But you can also keep it going with your other partners that you have, and in this case typically the... You know it's kinda the mother is the root of the family and the mothers aunts might help out with raising the children as well as the husbands The children aren't even really aware of who their father is, they just know that this is my first dad. This is my second dad. This is my third dad Seattle like that's the part where i start to be like do you really want that. I'm not saying that i mean i'm not in any sort of arrangement myself, i was pointing it out because it has corollaries with the novels right and it just a different way we could potentially live and it would have totally different effects as you can see how

1:00:46 Dowry's and the purchasing of wives and the authoritarian father creates a little totalitarian state in the house you can see that so it is worth exploring alternatives but even without having this, who are all relationships you could still have i mean our current society. It's definitely centered around the father and the fathers family. Like, the wife typically goes to be with him so there is But in this other arrangement, this more maternal relationship arrangement. It's actually the family doesn't typically get broken up when there is a ending of the marriage. The father just kind of goes on and does what he wants to do so that there isn't a real breakup of the family you know they're still the aunts who are able to be leveraged and things like that but I mean this is also in small town

1:01:44 it's not like people are really moving away and extended families are pretty much still intact. What about data on fatherless households? Now, I know obviously our society has a lot of things, a lot of factors that would be affecting a person's life but what type of effects does removing that component have? It might not manifest the way it would in a full society if we're doing that kind of thing but in our society Create more problems than benefits yeah there's definitely. I mean the thing is in the situation i'm talking about theirs there would be other father figures a bigger network and apples to apples comparison of course but also, can you patriarchal family the fathers main breadwinner

1:02:34 You know, and so everybody is kind of dependent on that person. That's true in society structured that if you don't have that figure it's very very hard for a single mom to make a living wage which has all kinds of repercussions even today but if you look back at like forties fifties or what do is completely devastating I mean this is why this is why little girls would go to college to meet a man rather than learn things because that's how everything was structured. Very true! So, I'd like to go ahead and start talking about the bonobo connection Absolutely! So the Bonobo chimp was first discovered in 1929 in the form of a skull specimen And it wasn't really understood to be different from other chimpanzees until the early 50s so this is an example that would not have been one that Reich himself would've been aware of In the late 1970s chimpanzees

1:03:32 Which are much more closely related to humans became the model for the human ancestor before that it was the. The trees that lead people to take this model where cooperative hunting food sharing tool use our politics and primitive warfare but As the noble and so this is kind of seen as the model for why we are who we are why we have patriarchal societies white you know authority in domination. Leadership side but has been noble society has begun to be studying more detail provides an alternative view of our closest relatives. The number one chimpanzee

1:04:16 In their society, sex is common, often performed in a mock or ritual fashion and is almost nonchalant as a handshake. While not dominating their interactions it seems to act as way to prevent potential conflicts The charging displays of bonobos are much more subdued than those of common chimpanzees which can often extend into protracted tantrums with the common chimp In the common chimp, dominant males keep a tight rein on the reproductive rights of females with a gang of subordinate males. In bonobo society if a female is accosted by male, the females will band together to defend her against the stronger male So while some may point to the role hierarchy in male domination in natural societies like lions or chimpanzees really we don't need to look any farther than the Bonobos for another model

1:05:07 It is interesting. Yeah, now what might cause that? Why would free expression of sexuality... why would it act to Reduce aggression and reduce domination because that is basically the main thrust of Reich's argument Is that that's the case no pun intended, and this is a good example of that But what it what would be the underlying cause like okay? Okay You know The bonobos are rubbing their their hooves and we use together you know And that's kind of their handshake and they are a bunch of pussies so

1:05:46 What does that mean? What are these ape hippie communes doing, man. Exactly right! So if these different modalities of sexual expression have such an influence on the development of character and societal structure what might be the underlying cause? The amygdala which controls the fight or flight response is also responsible for this sex drive For example, one study found a relation between the size of the amygdala in patients with epilepsy and another found that patients with larger amygdala after neurosurgery had greater sex drive. This suggests that the sexual expression and aggression are not just psychologically but physiologically linked. And what we're witnessing in the bonobos is a form of cultural expression which taps into this inherent biology

1:06:38 for negating stress and aggression. So it's kind of like a biohack that they've developed in their society This is completely in agreement with Dr. Rice assertions, and at odds with the current narrative regarding what authority you know that the origins of authority at a fundamental level Indeed it would tend to lend to an authoritarian egalitarian paradigm rather than a left-right paradigm with regard to fascism There is more direct research to support this hypothesis as studies have shown that in response to fear, liberals tend to become more conservative in their thinking. And a response to lack of fear like imagining you're invincible like Superman conservatives become more liberal than they're thinking. You know those are some interesting studies that have been done

1:07:30 And while we're on the topic of the brain, I think it should be mentioned that the more authority one wields, the less that somebody tends to take into account others' needs and feelings. So this has been recently substantiated by showing people in positions of authority are actually not having the same mirror-neuron responses than people with little or no authority The role of power on the psyche has often been likened to being drunk. And this is kind of what that shows, as you become kind of emotionally dampened as a result of power So to explore the current paradigm of thought with regards to left-right paradigm further we should start talk about what fascism has been commonly defined as in past

1:08:22 A lot of people think of the quote by Benito Mussolini, which I'm not even sure where it might be attributed to in terms of the original source. But it says fascism should rightly be called corporatism as this is the merger of corporate and government power In practice liberals tend to think of it as corporations controlling the government And conservatives tend to think of it as government controlling corporations in both cases expressed by a dominating Kafkaesque bureaucracy. The embodiment of each of these modes can be found in the fascist or communist models that are commonly understood, but I believe this is a bit of a simplification and one which leads to the left-right thinking that I'm discussing right now."

1:09:08 In this paradigm, there are two sources of power the state and the corporation. People are not really part of this equation as each of these sources of power is hierarchical and bureaucratic in nature today people rank themselves along a political spectrum of left and right where left is characterized by state power and right is characterized by corporate power This dichotomy is limiting and does not accurately characterize a source of power or the different ways that power can be expressed For instance, during the Middle Ages in Europe it would have been definitely characterized as an authoritarian regime with an autocratic ruler granted authority by a larger religious body with its own autonomous leader.

1:09:47 This doesn't fit into the definition of fascism in either case, but little difference would be noticed by the average person on the street besides from which philosophy is being espoused when you compare feudalism with communism or fascism. So I believe that left-right paradigm is a sort of mental trap designed to limit people's thinking and a way that it's mirrored across opposing perspectives and at least opposite conclusions based off of the same information Fair enough i think that's a great breakdown and maybe to amend the definition that refers to it is just corporations you can say corporations and cabals I mean little groups of top-down leadership. Is that fair to say? You know, its basically a merger state corporate power where in the case of middle ages estate was dictatorship

1:10:44 You know and right it was granted its legitimacy by the other main industry at the time which was religion. Right you consider that a corporation basically basically a big monopoly on, people's spirituality that was, you know sucking up tithes and and you know issuing What was it called? It was what Martin Luther spoke out against when he tapped his little decree on the door of the church. It was the Whatever they were basically handing out pieces of paper to forgive people for their sins in charging him with seeing a bounce of money I can't remember off my head

1:11:24 So I guess at this point, we should probably talk about the last part of Wilhelm Reich's discussion about fascism and that is work democracy. Yeah interesting premise for sure! Basically in the past you know we've had different ways of organizing work One way was basically you paid someone to perform a task. You might have a person who is a slave, and in Roman times maybe they voluntarily sold themselves into slavery or in colonial times they were often captured and forced into slavery. You might also have a debt-slave relationship in the form of indentured servitude

1:12:11 But now what a lot of people are talking about is wage slavery. And I think that's, you know, a very good concept to start with since a lot of your listeners would be familiar with that. Oh yeah! But basically the idea is that you're dependent on a wage You have to have that in order to meet your needs and In order to do so...you basically sell your sovereignty to an employer and say, okay I will be here this many hours a week while i'm there. I am your robot on your tool do with me as you wish and you know i can't really say anything about it but in the legal framework you're not just a robot you're not just a tool you aren't just being manipulated to exact the will of your master

1:13:10 you are still a person, but it's basically kind of an abridged personhood while you're in that relationship. Because if you don't comply with what you're being told then you can be fired for insubordination under basically every labor law that's around But the thing is if something criminals going on You're still culpable you know, if you do a criminal act as part of your job or you're being asked to then you're in the catch 22 where you basically have to resign. You can't say no according to labor law but you're still responsible if any...if you do this criminal act right and that is really just kind of showing that you aren't...you're still responsible for your actions. Your just granted no authority

1:14:03 You know the idea of work democracy as right talks about it is basically the idea that you would have some authority over your work. No in the case of working for a corporation or working for business it will be the sort of situation where okay i'm here and typically what's done today and a lot of cooperatives or a lot of word democracy Sort of arrangements is that you go to an assembly or something like that once a week to kind of give feedback on the overall flow things but it's still kinda hierarchical. In reality, a lot of the day-to-day stuff your boss is still responsible to you but its not really as direct as I think it should perhaps be. I would say you know should be this sort of thing where you actually elect your boss

1:14:59 Could you imagine if say, you know, you have a bunch of factory workers or you have a bunch of engineers and you say who's the best among us for this job? Let's hold a vote. And you actually elect the project leader for this project because that's a person you think would be best or no u elect your boss because that's most knowledgeable and the person who do you think we'll be able to reflect needs of not just corporation but. The rest of people in your group right like a captain of the ship at the crew can believe in support yeah and it will be there It's not like every single decision is made

1:15:43 by voting. Once you get to that sort of level, you're kind of... You're getting into analysis paralysis and all this stuff so it's the sort of thing where there needs to be a balance There needs to be balance between somebody always getting their will and mob rule So kinda this dictator-mob rule kinda dynamic but by allowing people to say okay I think you should be in charge. And then once that person is in charge, like you could have a recall vote if enough people think hey this what the fuck is this guy doing?

1:16:20 Or like if there's any one policy where it's just like everybody is like, I don't think so. We should hold a vote to override that decision but on the day-to-day basis the guy is not being an asshole. The guys making reasonable decisions there's no need for any of that stuff even happen which would be normal workplace So it would be this sort of thing were maybe once every year or two Or every time there's a new project, someone would be chosen and typically it'd be... I mean you're not gonna just say okay let's pull some person off the street we've never met before. And let's make him in charge just based off of maybe an hour with him When you're talking about something like this where its like these are people you know for years typically to even get into one of these cooperatives You have to work there for year or two

1:17:14 So that they know you're not going to steal, you're not going to be dishonest. You actually know how to do your job and then you get- you are able to join the cooperative as a full member with voting rights. Kind of like a contractor sort of thing today except most contractors they get told they are hired on but they aren't How many people out there have some no nothing boss that just has this corporate personality and is the figurehead of the company, just because they're so politically correct they can navigate conversations without actually getting into the nitty gritty of what the companies actually doing and.

1:17:54 you know, people don't feel respected at their workplace and that's one of the big reasons they loathe it so much. So to have some say in its structure would be of course ideal I mean who is going to argue against that except the corporate cabals? You know i was talking about before with the brain research that was done on authority. The last step your boss is accountable to you or two other people, let's even consider your viewpoint reviews for what you have to say right and so the more concentrated this power becomes the more thirty one year when we old

1:18:33 the less they, you know the more power drunk they become. The less accountable they are to anyone. Yeah it's goddamn Lord of The Rings! Lord Of The Rings... You know all that sort of stuff so this is a way to deal with that research finding is to say okay well now you're accountable if you're constantly beating up on this poor schlub who works for you for no good reason They are going to notice other people are going to notice That's the thing is this stuff gets covered up by authority and it gets covered up by politics in the normal workplace. But in a workplace like this, people wouldn't... It's like female bonobos being like what the fuck are you doing asshole? You're not going to come over here and rape our girl she doesn't want you around!

1:19:23 It's that kind of change in mindset. It doesn't mean that it has to devolve into an anarchist or, you know this analysis paralysis constantly voting sort of situation and what a lot of people jump to immediately I mean To me it-I think it's kind of sad And it's really An indictment of our society today That we are in the first established democracy in the modern world, and yet you talk about work democracy and everybody's like oh fuck look at this communist guy what the fuck are you doing here? You lefty get the fuck out of here. Right we can't even conceive of having a little power in the workplace were so brainwashed for top-down dominance yeah And that's the thing is that nothing like this ever actually happened In the Soviet Union you know they right all their talk about workers freedom and worker control

1:20:18 it just turned into this party control, this authoritarian heavy-handed and controlling plan that was imposed on everyone. And you didn't... I mean like i said before there wasn't really any difference between the factory worker in Soviet Russia or in Nazi Germany. There wasn't really any difference whether you were a Jew in a concentration camp, or whether you were a Russian engineer who got sent to the gulag. It doesn't really matter at that point. They get us trapped in this left versus right thing and looking at these examples of history and be like well look all the death communism has caused capitalism's caused a lot of death too but regardless of the debate it's like we're stuck in a paradigm where we're still looking at people being

1:21:08 Pushed around by top down authoritarians and so neither of those is the example we want to look at new that we can't find one for what exactly were trying to look at. Well i mean a lot of examples god basically, killed off during the colonial expansion after the Renaissance. I mean, it was mainly the church who was doing this. The Catholic Church was basically going around, oh who do you believe in? Oh, you don't know about Jesus well fuck you! We're gonna chop your head off and you're gonna chop your hands off but okay next in line... Do you believe in Jesus? Oh fuck yeah I believe in Jesus!

1:21:48 And they burned their culture. They burned it to the ground, and there were a lot of indigenous people who ended up kind of hiding it within their expression of the church. They still had little vestiges here and there so that they could do things in their old ways on this slide but still a lot of it got lost. Oh yeah for sure! This colonial domination wiped out our examples to tell you the truth Well and it's just so funny that in modern times whether you're on the left or right a lot of people look at either Obama or Trump as this father figure, this savior figure. It is pretty much like

1:22:29 People look at these people like the second coming of christ and it's just this savior motif of like oh once we get the right guy in there for the top down control then everything is gonna be alright and it's just the same revolving door a false hopes, maybe we should look at changing the model entirely well that's the thing you know. Like i was saying with that brain research the more authority is concentrated. The less it's responsible to the people are granting that authority in reality then the worst things are gonna be no matter what they just aren't gonna get a shit cuz they don't have to give a shit right now

1:23:10 And what would be some of the primary safeguards against that like if you are to throw out a couple of things that there would be the non negotiables for society with more advantageous structure i mean what are those things that the oily appendages of the elite aren't gonna be able to navigate around. So i think it needs to be definitely a private industry and state control both If you have one or the other and there's no checks on private interests, and the public interest is dominating everything then you end up with the same sort of end result. But there needs to be a balance between them where I think the line would be what is essential for life

1:24:01 What's essential for the functioning of our planet and for an economy and. Are there any is a subset of the college you are playing it oh yeah no. All of our industries are dependent on natural resources you can't divest them from that and that's what that's big problem with a lot of economic theory today, is just thinking that you can grow infinitely on finite planets So, first of all I think there needs to be both private and public because the thing with public control is it's always going to be just because of the fact that the state should be larger than any one economic entity to keep them in check. But because of that size there is going to be but you know not so big that it stifles the rights of citizens

1:24:53 But there's also going to be kind of an inherent slowness of response. And that could be a good thing and that can be bad thing because you know, there can be a surplus for these essential services that built up in government or public entity that can't really be done in a private entity not one that is no so big it becomes a monopoly anyway There needs to be private expression because in the economy because it's more efficient. In the long run its is more adaptive but the thing is you can't have anyone group able to dominate the others so that he's a level playing field and i also think that no, just kind of do human psychology person can keep track of more than about hundred two hundred twenty contacts something like that

1:25:46 So that was kind of like the optimized village size back in pre-industrial civilization. And that was just because everybody knew everybody else, they knew who they were dealing with, they're able to have long lasting relationships and things like that so when you get into these larger structures of private entities then things start to be able to get out of control That also helps to guard against centralization, because an organization that gets too big is obviously going to get pushed towards centralized control just for the sake of tidiness and efficiency. Yeah yeah

1:26:27 That's the thing is basically that essential services this kind of safe guarding. The role of the commons is basically where the state lands and then things that are just central service is things like health care or fire prevention or making sure there's enough natural resources for industry to exist even it can fall into this, More of a kind of free for all but if you have this work democracy built into it. then it's the sort of thing where there will be more self regulation and it won't even have to get up to the state regulation level because who is going to, be a part of a company where you have about your able to work things out between yourself in your boss was gonna vote for poisoning their environment when they live there right.

1:27:23 If that's imposed on you, okay I gotta fuck it up otherwise i'm out of here. I got the kids to pay for their school and my dog has a gimpy leg and my wife is... She's not looking too hot today, so she's not working. I better just pump the stuff down the drain." Right but if it is some board of executives on Wall Street who only give a shit about the dollars coming in and they don't care what goes on in these environments outside of the city then you're going to have problems and nobody will be wanting to correct that if money train still coming in

1:28:03 And there's also, I mean have you ever watched the documentary The Corporation? Yeah it's very good. The psychoanalysis of a corporation if it was an actual person and how it would be completely psychopathic Exactly yes yes and that's basically the way that we have it set up. The owners are the shareholders and the only thing that the leader of autonomous leader at the top is really responsible for his shareholders and their profits. So it's a completely self interested kind of modality, that's really what characterizes psychopathy and sociopathy is always putting yourself in front of others not any protective sense like i need to protect myself from others but exploitive sense

1:28:55 And I think that's probably a good lead into our next topic, which would be you know little bit about libertarian psychology and philosophy. Sure let's talk about that cuz you know i have actually gotten into it with some of the libertarian guess i've had because while i do agree that i'd like less state control and abroad sense if you remove entirely you have a world run by corporations who will no doubt exploit every worker they can every consumer-based they can, and we'll just trash the planet until there is nothing left. I know our current regulatory agencies are completely compromised but just to think that free markets and corporate cabals will police themselves is insane." Yes! I totally agree now to get into this I think we should start a little bit with some studies into the psychology of libertarians. Cool

1:29:52 Okay, it looks like there was a survey by your morals.org which basically had everybody place themselves on the left right scale and It allowed people to choose libertarian as an option Now, in a project led by Rabbi Ehler, they analyzed the results from nearly 12,000 self-described libertarians and compared their responses of 21,000 conservatives and 97,000 liberals. The paper was published last week in PLOS ONE. Findings largely confirm what libertarians have been said about themselves so here is what the results of what the study said

1:30:37 Libertarians match liberals in placing relatively low value on the moral foundations of loyalty, authority and sanctity. They're not so concerned about sexual issues and flag burning But they joined conservatives in scoring lower than liberals on care and fairness foundations where fairness is mostly equality, not proportionality. They don't want a welfare state and heavy-handed measures to force equality. This is why libertarians can be placed on the spectrum from left to right. They have unique pattern that has no sense just somewhere in the middle. They really do put liberty above all other values

1:31:13 On reasoning and emotions, most libertarians are of a masculine style. Liberals are the most feminine measures of empathizing and systemizing which refers to the drive to analyze the variables in a system and arrive at the underlying rules that govern behavior of this system men tend score higher on this variable. And libertarian score lowest three groups on empathize in the highest on system is so, listen other measures libertarians come out as cerebral rational and least emotional and

1:31:50 To me, that kind of sounds a little bit spectrum-y. You know what I'm saying? And actually, I think that people who have... Because the thing is somebody who's on the spectrum from autism to Asperger's those are kind of lower grades of psychopathy In a way, but it's in manifest differently. They aren't It isn't that they are trying to exploit others or they're trying to Take advantage of other they just can't really relate to others. It's more of like a handicap rather than like this monstrous violent and damaging manifestation But it also tends to make them higher functioning

1:32:40 in terms of their rationalization and their ability to do things in a logical and ordered manner. Fair enough man but that is pretty harsh i do understand what you're saying though it's kind of like leave me alone I'm gonna do what I'm doing over here and just, you do what you do over there. But if everybody does that there's going to be conflicts in certain areas It's like the classic issue with Gary Johnson when he was actually booed off the stage at a libertarian rally because He was trying to argue that well we can't just let blind people get driver licenses And it's like, well who are you to say what authority do you have to infringe on the rights of the blind to drive? I'm not saying that all libertarians are on this spectrum by any means. No but i get what you're saying and that's an example of how it can go off the rails Yeah I think a bit in my mind I have a distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy This comes from a book called Political Pornology

1:33:42 It was actually written by a scientist. I can't remember if it was a psychiatrist or just a psychoanalyst, but he was basically one of those two and he was living in Nazi Germany No, he was living in Poland and when Poland was invaded he was pursued by the Nazis. And then he ended up writing this book about his experiences because I think he was captured and imprisoned but basically what he says is that psychopaths are people who are the way they are typically because of a trauma that they've endured and it actually impacts them at such a fundamental level that it completely twists their psychology at a biological level.

1:34:28 Just look at how the elite apparently raise their own kids something you sent me. Talked about how trump was raised and he raised his own kids and it was in exact match for what the rothschild family does where, the father is constantly trying to trick his own children gives them basically no love and says look the world is a cold, hard place and nothing is fair. And everybody's trying to fuck you and so you better fuck them first." I mean that's traumatizing to a child! So it's no surprise these people grow up to be psychopaths. Yeah there actually... There is a genetic component to this. It seems that there are certain bloodlines in groups of people who are more susceptible to this trauma activating

1:35:16 their genes to express this, because there are people who still carry that gene and they don't... you know they're a bit emotionally stunted but they aren't full-blown psychopathic. You know? They might not always take people into consideration as much as others but I think what it is is that trauma is really kind of the catalyst to creating this kind of epigenetic link where that genealogy is expressed Makes sense. Like you can have a predisposition, but if it isn't triggered by trauma it won't be quite so severe and won't show as much in your personality Yeah It's kind of like there's celiac disease where people end up being not being able to handle gluten protein This is where you know all this gluten-free stuff comes from But people will often go for years eating gluten as a child

1:36:09 And it won't affect them. And then one day they have a bowl of Cheerios, and their stomach feels like it's on fire and they start seeing lights and getting a migraine and they're in bed for three days. So you know, it can be that quick if there is the right stimulus So getting back to it, sociopathy I think of as more of somebody who is in the psychopathic mindset. And and the distinction that they that they give in psychology between these is that somebody who's sociopathic, they're able to regulate their response around others

1:36:52 to a larger degree, to the psychopathic person who basically they don't have that impulse control. Now I would say that somebody who is psychopathic is somebody where this gene expression has been turned on and the way their brain processes information has changed and their mirror neurons are not firing at the same rate everybody else's is And they can't control that on any sort of conscious level anymore Sociopaths, I think are more people who are kind of inculcated or they end up getting acclimated to a culture that's sociopathic or psychopathic. And a lot of times what will end up happening is some toxic or psychopathic person gets into an organization and they build up their own little cult around them where they end up recruiting people who were prone to developing this more sociopathic behavior

1:37:47 And you see that a lot in cults of personality giving rise to fascist or communist bureaucracies and organizations. So speaking of cults of personality, I think it would be good time to get into Rand and her influence on libertarianism. Sure! A lot of people worship her and the links she sent me were pretty interesting about her background and why she might think the way she did Yeah, so one thing you got to realize is that Rand she actually grew up in Tsarist Russia and when the revolution happened basically she went from being a little print her daddy's little princess to and her dad he was very well You know He was it was kind of some of the elite in that country. He owned a pharmacy made very good money You know had an upper-middle class sort of sort of lifestyle

1:38:46 Then all that was ripped away when the revolution happened. Basically, they took his pharmacy and he vowed that he'd never work for them. I think I've got a quote here. Her name was Alyssa at that time. She's Alyssa Rosenbaum. What she said was she saw the look on her father's face as you know, he was basically being torn from his pharmacy shop And she said that I felt the way he looked. His was one of helplessness, murderous frustration and indignation. He could do absolutely nothing this event in a subsequent starvation that he and his family suffered begging on the streets of St Petersburg left a very great trauma in Anne Rand's mind as she was growing up

1:39:35 She ended up asking one of her relatives to help her move to the United States, and they altruistically gave her some money to do so in 1925. After she arrived, she changed her name to Anne Rand and started to kind of pick up where most people who are libertarian would probably know a bit more about her past. But there is one aspect that probably they don't know about and that would be her admiration of the serial killer William Hickman

1:40:12 That is an interesting aspect for sure what can you tell us about that when and was coming up with her. Idea of my deal man which he leveraged a lot in a lot of her call literature. Is there a bit loosely because it's very one dimensional i'd say its you know it's kind of juvenile literature and the way it's written and i mean, I'm just kind of being objective here. Not really trying to bad mouth people who like it, but i'm saying what I think. But she had this ideal man, this kind of superman image that she wanted build up in each of her books

1:40:53 And a lot of that came from her father and his ideals and his personality. But there was another figure which factored into this great deal, and it was actually this serial killer William Hickman. Most people would say well what are you talking about? How could that possibly be? So I'm going to read a little bit here, if that's okay from a story called how A.N. Rand became a big admirer of serial killer William Hickman by Mark Ames of Alternet. All right!

1:41:30 So the best way to get to the bottom of Ayn Rand's beliefs is look at how she developed a superhero novel, Atlas Shrugged John Galt. Back in the late 1920s as Ayn Rand was working out her philosophy she became enthralled by real life American serial killer William Edward Hickman whose gruesome sadistic dismemberment of 12 year old girl named Marion Parker in 1927 shocked the nation Rand filled her early notebooks with worshipful praise of Hickman. According to biographer Jennifer Burns, author of Goddess at the Market, Rand was so smitten with Hickman that she modeled her first literary creation, Danny Rennahan, the protagonist of our unfinished novel The Little Street on Him." So this is what she had to say about Hickman. Rand said other people do not exist for him and he does not see why they should

1:42:24 She gushed that Hickman had no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness of all his own he has the true innate psychology of Superman. He can never realize and feel other people." They go on to say this echoes almost word-for-word Rand's later description of her character Howard Rourke, the hero of The Fountainhead who was born without the ability to consider others The Fountainhead is a Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's favorite book. He even requires his clerks to read it, and that's actually a common theme with a lot of the fans of Rand is that they require other people to read his books

1:43:07 And i knew somebody before trying to get me to read. What are your books and i can only really get through about the first forty pages that's because what was weather i would stop at that point i could barely get through it just because it was so rough to read just the callousness and kind of the, you know, the one-dimensional characters. The kinda fey woman swooning and this very dominant male character. And most people didn't really have much of a backstory they just kinda were there saying things at you. And the words that were in their mouths were Anne Rand's words so getting back to what she thought of William Hickman

1:43:54 She said, he was a genuinely beautiful soul. So I think at this point it would be good idea to talk about what Hickman actually did. Sure! You know? To kind of give an idea of who this person was that she admired so much and what maybe she admired about him Rand fell for William Edward Hickman in the 1920s as a shocking story of Hickman's crime started to grip the nation. He was the OJ Simpson of his day, his crime trial and case were nonstop headline grabbers for months. Hickman who is only 19 when he was arrested for murder was a son of paranoid schizophrenic mother and grandmother. His schoolmates said that as a kid Hickman liked to strangle cats and snap the necks of chickens for fun. Most of the kids thought he was a budding maniac

1:44:43 Although adults gave him good marks for behavior, a typical sign of sociopathic cunning. He enrolled in college but quickly dropped out and then turned to violent crime largely driven by the thrill and arrogance typical of sociopaths In brief wild crime spree that grew increasingly violent Hickman knocked over dozens of gas stations and drugstores across the Midwest and went west to California Along the way, it's believed he strangled a girl in Milwaukee and killed his crime partner's grandfather in Pasadena tossing his body over a bridge after taking his money. Hickman's partner later told police that Hickman told him how much she'd like to kill and dismember victims someday. And that day did come for Hickman."

1:45:23 One afternoon Hickman drove up to Mount Vernon Junior High in Los Angeles telling administrators he'd come to pick up the Parker girl. Her father Perry Parker was a prominent banker, Hickman didn't know the first-the girls first name so when he was asked which of the two Parker twins? He answered The younger daughter then he corrected himself the smaller one No one suspected his motives. The school administrator fetched young Marion and brought her out to Hickman. Marion obediently followed Hickman into his car as she was told, where he promptly kidnapped her. He wrote a ransom note to Marion's father demanding $1500 for return promising the girl would be left unharmed. Marion was terrified into passivity. She even waited in his car for Hickman when he went to mail his letter to her father

1:46:08 Hickman's extreme narcissism comes through in his ransom letters as he refers to himself as the mastermind and not a common crook. Hickman signed his letter, The Fox because he admired his own cunning. Fox is my name very sly you know? And then he threatened get this straight your daughter's life hangs by a thread Hickman and the girl's father exchanged letters over the next few days as they arranged the terms of a ransom, while Marion obediently followed her captor's demands. She never tried to escape the hotel where he kept her. Hickman even took her to a movie. She never screams for help. She remains quiet and still is told when Hickman tied her to a chair. He didn't even bother gagging her because there was no real need to right up until the end."

1:46:50 Hickman's last ransom note to Marion's father is where the story reaches its disturbing end. Hickman fills the letter with hurt anger over her father's suggestion that Hickman might deceive him and ask you for $1,500 for a lifeless mass of flesh I am base and low but i won't stoop to that depth as what Hickman said as he wrote the letter. Marion had already been chopped up into several lifeless masses of flesh White taunt the father, white feign outrage. This sort of bizarre taunting was all part of the serial killer's thrill maximizing his sadistic pleasure but this was nothing compared to the thrill Hickman got from murdering the helpless 12-year old Marion Parker here is an old newspaper description of a murder taken from The Pittsburgh Post Gazette it was while I was fixing the blindfold that the urge to murder

1:47:37 came over me. I couldn't help myself, I got a towel and stepped up behind Marion then before she could move i put it around her neck and twisted it tightly. I held on she made no outcry except to gurgle. I held on for about two minutes I guess and then let go when I cut loose the fastening she fell to the floor I knew she was dead well after she was dead I carried her body into the bathroom and undressed her all but the underwear and cut a hole in her throat with a pocket knife to let the blood out He then took a pocket knife and cut a hole in her throat, cut off each arm to the elbow. Cut her legs off at the knees. He put the limbs in a cabinet. He cut up the body in his room at the Bellevue Arms Apartments. Then he removed the clothing and cut the body through it with the waist. He put it on a shelf in the dressing room

1:48:25 He placed a towel in the body to drain the blood. He draped up the exposed end of his arm and waist with paper, he combed back her hair, powdered your face and then with a needle affixed your eyelids." He did this because he realized that you would lose the reward if you didn't have the body produced by your father. So this is what he was doing as he wrote that note. Dark stuff! Hickman packed her body, limbs and entrails into a car and drove to the drop-off point to pick up his ransom. Along the way he tossed out wrapped up limbs and innards scattering them around Los Angeles when he arrived at the meeting point Hickman pulled Marion's head and torso out of a suitcase and propped her up Her trousseau was wrapped tightly to look like she was alive He sewed wires into our eyelids to keep them open so that she'd appear to be awake and alive When Mariam's father arrived

1:49:15 Hickman pointed a sawed-off shotgun at him, showed him Miriam's head and eyes sun open. It would have been hard to see for certain that she was dead from his position and then took the ransom money and sped away as he sped away He threw Miriam's head and torso out of the car And that's what the father ran up to when he saw his daughter in screams Jesus Christ Yeah That is I mean that's about as dark as it gets And for Rand to think of this person as someone to be admired, obviously it shows that she's taken this ideal in her mind. This rational self-interest and has taken it to a pathological extreme

1:50:04 So, you know I can go on a bit more but i think when her father was demasculated in front of her and lost everything at the hands of what she perceived as society or the forces of the mob or community or other people She kind of related to her father's indignation and individualism to such a degree that it became this pathological expression. That would be that trauma what ran fans say about this association or this hick man appreciation,

1:50:49 I've never got anyone to actually talk about it. I've mentioned it before and they just kind of roll their eyes, think that it's just fake news sort of a thing you know? They don't want even acknowledge it Hmm. I did read a little bit about it because i was curious and basically the only thing i could find was someone who's like these are all things taken out of context but it is a fact that she only talked about Hickman in her private journals which indicates she had an appreciation for him but didn't necessarily want it to be out there in the open yeah at least that's how i took that yeah, i think so i think you're absolutely right

1:51:30 I mean, all of her relationships were very skewed. If you've ever done any research into the collective which is really for the Anne Rand fan club slash think tank that's a pretty weird name isn't it? She was so against collectivism in any form and yet she named her group The Collective have any understanding how that even came about, but it's interesting. Right so basically we're just pointing out here I guess that libertarianism seems to have some shaky foundations and shaky founders Yeah i definitely think so when you look into its history in terms of how it actually came about there was definitely corporate special interests who were involved in promoting

1:52:25 So Rand just kind of followed on this promotion. She soaked it up, she loved it but they were very complimentary to each other in the way that was expressed So one of these corporate groups that was involved in promoting libertarianism was the Foundation for Economic Freedom. And it was founded by U.S. Chamber of Commerce executive Leonard Reed, and his top contributors included General Motors, Chrysler, Consolidated Edison, DuPont, Gulf Oil, US Steel... Notice a pattern here with the American Liberty League?

1:53:10 Montgomery ward armor and be a good rich so i love the same groups that were involved in founding american liberty league, actually involved found the foundation for economic freedom. Why wouldn't corporate think tank support an ideology that gets rid of all regulation gives them free reign i mean it just makes too much sense yeah i mean the purpose of the fb and libertarianism general What's the supplement big business lobbying with pseudo intellectuals to economic rationale back up its policy and legislative attacks on government regulations. So that's kind of the start of it but it really really takes off as things are suffering for them in terms of the nixon watergate situation

1:54:01 So basically by that point, there's no faith in politics. There's no faith and a lot of these more libertarian ideals and the response was basically that one of the aids for Richard Nixon outlined to plan To put what he called the GOP on TV And the idea was to basically create a news network That would Initially basically what it was this wasn't when it was fox news but when it was another name let me see here i can find a real quick so when is founded television news incorporated. What she called fair and balanced in the nineteen seventies basically it was this company that would make propaganda and then

1:54:57 They would sell it at cut rate prices almost fire sale prices to different networks and so it was basically a way to generate content that would be picked up all over the place. And what cost them you know a lot less than producing themselves but it was just kind of get the word out there kinda thing And eventually that did grow into Fox News, but it was in the words of a news director who quit and protested a propaganda machine. That's what it was pure and simple. It was just a propaganda machine to put out this libertarian message so that has basically resulted in a large number people

1:55:46 being brainwashed to a degree into this sort of thinking that if we get rid of all government authority, it's always government. It's never corporate they don't ever look at the corporate side of power they say you know if we just get rid of government I won't be taxed as much as I am or very tiny government that barely does anything really other I guess make sure that the streets are paid and businesses don't catch fire so the business keep going on but this idea basically comes out of this backlash that happened after the next watergate scandal and the.

1:56:28 Overall wave of progressive and socialistic legislation that had gotten past after the new deal. And during the sixties seventies so, It was basically designed to help dismantle that. And today we've seen the result is that most of that legislation, which was built up over about 40 or 50 years has completely gone. There's nothing left of it for the most part just vestiges if anything Now, should we go ahead and start talking about the Russian Revolution in more deep? I could talk briefly about fascism and socialism or do you want me to just go there. Yeah well i think it'd be important just so we can say that we were even-handed in the discussion about fascism and its many rappers and then from there yeah we can go into beastmen and gods and that whole chapter okay

1:57:27 One thing about all this, and I can kind of hear the arguments going in my head is, you know well fascism Nazis weren't really fascist they were socialist. And one of the problems with this is that they had to name National Socialist Party But the thing is that when you actually look at what they did in terms of their actual policies, like there were a few places where the industry had completely fallen apart and they did nationalize it for preparation for this war effort. But aside from that, there wasn't really any takeover of industry or anything like that or any regulation of normally functioning industries

1:58:17 So it was basically a way to provide an authoritarian hierarchy that would express corporate and industrial interests especially after the during and after the war with build up all this stuff you can see. that there was this link with industrialists in other countries, like America and you know this attempted coup in the United States. And all these links with industrialist in Britain as well so that's something that I think needs to be addressed. And I think that's pretty much it! I think we've gone through everything

1:59:00 Right on. Yeah, I mean that is just a real whirlwind of information, a fascism 101 that i think is pretty appropriate. I know I learned some things for sure hopefully people agree and it is kind of tough to navigate these waters sometimes because it does get political and there is so much emotion around a person's ideology in politics that they're very guarded to hear it criticized or they'll pay attention Making sure there was a 50-50 split between criticisms of both sides because people just think everything is an op and that ideas aren't implemented necessarily the way they're talked about. Everybody gets very skeptical of that notion as well, so it's a bit of ideological minefield to navigate but I do think we talked about both sides and at its core were talking about

1:59:57 corporate collusion, rule by authority. And these are ideas that anyone should be able to say yeah I don't support that so you know maybe cut through some of the manipulation and propaganda and just see at the core we're talking about trying to free people right? Absolutely absolutely that's what it's really about The last thing I would have to say is take a few minutes and go listen to that audio snippet. And, I'll think for you that it kind of ties everything together at the end. Right on! Well man this has been a bit of a marathon session again i do think it's important stuff

2:00:40 I guess, I would also ask you before we go. Is there anything else to say about the return to the Elemental Alchemy series? Anything to say in terms of the preview for the next element on the list? So...I was planning on getting back to the Elemental Series and going to The Fire episode next and then later on I would get to The Mind episode but we just went through so much psychology and so much, we started to get into some brain structure and things like that. I think that if we go to the mind episode next, I can really fill in the whole psychological framework and give people a bit more depth on some of these concepts that were bringing up in the link between mind and spirituality

2:01:36 quantum biology and things like that, and being able to get into kind of how a lot of this stuff really freaking works. Get into a user manual for the mind. Yeah I'm into it! I think that'd be great yeah I just think it'll complement this and then we can move on and blast through the rest of the elemental series Sure, man. Awesome! Well again always enjoy having you here I will let you enjoy the rest of your day because this has been a long one Yeah But we will be doing it again and until that time take care out there Take it easy

2:02:15 Sweet baby Jesus dear people of the internet, the triumphant return of Shemangineer taking a break from Elements to talk about ideologies. And I'll tell you i was a little hesitant at first. I thought it might be...I don't know..a bit sober for THC and probably even a bit polarizing and triggering Although fascism should be something we all oppose on a conspiracy show if we could just recognize it appropriately, which is really what this was all about. So I'm really glad that we did it. It has a unique place in the archive and its topic worth focusing on. It just does get a little dicey when you bring up certain ideologies because so many people have their minds made-up or their definition of something might be way off from another person's definition and were playing straw man games

2:03:04 These are some of the most loaded and propagandized terms in human history, so of course people have strong reactions. But because they're so twisted up I think that's why we should be open to just unpacking them and taking an objective look but i do agree that the correct framing is that we have a false dichotomy of leftist ideologies that promote state power right ideologies that promote corporate power but nobody's really pushing for people power Maybe we could look at third options if we were open-minded enough to get over ourselves. I mean, I still wrestle with a lot of these ideas but i think if you're going to be fair We were pretty even handed and balanced and it's really just food for thought although the info about corporations changing after the civil war in the attempted coup on FDR that super interesting history

2:03:57 But just in the context of our current times, I like to think that a lot of higher side listeners are above the political infighting. And i said this in the show but everything is getting so extreme that no one is even talking cooperation it's all about winning and this mindset of if the other side would just get the fuck out of the way of my team's ideas we could fix everything and its like yeah, fix everything for you. But the road to tyranny is paved with good intentions And gridlock is the goal. So powerful fucks can get you so frustrated with it that you approve the bulldozing of parts of a system they don't like, and again it's not going to do anything for you I'm not trying to be preachy and am no political scientist but I think any systems have been corrupted by top down control with rigged economics violence exploitation cronyism all of them

2:04:53 So it's really disingenuous to look back at history or the current climate and see one of these clearly corrupt social examples and say to someone, oh that's what you want? Look at all those people who suffered under that system. You wanna bring THAT back?" And its like no, of course not! It's like Chimange said, you can't find examples of free fair and open civilizations. Those were wiped out history does not want those examples to be highlightable or for them to exist today it's a lot like vaccine studies the CDC never did MMR studies on non-vaccinated versus vaccinated groups only kids vaccinated two the schedule and ones where the schedule was extended and even that was very telling

2:05:40 But the point is, The Planet's Puppet Masters do not want us to have clear answers because we can unite around clear answers. In theory... And that's just what a lot of this is! It's just theory talk because it's not like a complete overhaul of our societal structure is even on the table for us but maybe if we could point our pitchfork at both the authoritarian government and the rigged corporate cabal instead of each other We might start to move the needle our way for change Maybe And there isn't just one answer for this. I don't really think Shemans was trying to shove one answer down anybody's throat, although he did torch some sacred cows! I don't really mind making that kind of trouble it just doesn't seem like people are free to talk openly anymore i'm reminded of something Dave Chappelle said in his latest special which was the effect of people who care about freedom have a responsibility to talk recklessly because I worry my kids will grow up in a world where they don't even know what reckless talk sounds like

2:06:40 And not that this show is reckless. In fact, Shemangineer puts a lot of work into getting ready for a THC and I really appreciate that effort But the point is, let's throw around some ideas. Let's put them on the table. Let's look at material that state deemed unfit for us. Let's examine why these various structures haven't worked and what it would take to make one work. Let's toss around ideas without being completely married to them and take a conversation to places that not many are really going today. And I'm on board with that! And these episodes with Shemang Neer are a bit different. It's not like he writes a book and then I read it, and then we go over the finer points... It's more like he is really smart thoughtful passionate guy who synthesizes a ton of information from a ton of sources on a particular topic and creates a form of presentation for us where i occasionally chime in just remind you're still here

2:07:36 But he recorded with me for three plus hours, which with breaks and side conversations it was about four. Plus all the preparation so you got to respect a guy who's got nothing to sell you and still puts in all that time and thoughtfulness to making a good case for something that he cares about And even still, he did have some addendums that got missed. He wanted me to add he did send me an article about the origins of engineering as a profession and how the way that it's taught is actually infused with authoritarian concepts. It's too long to read but is just a great example of how we are brainwashed for top-down control almost everywhere and we don't realize it

2:08:20 I think that point about the nuclear family setting us up for the mindset of just following orders from some father figure, some god damn tyrant. That's interesting! I mean i don't know how else i'd want to raise my kids but it's worth keeping in mind what type of imprinting you're doing with an operation like that But yes, he did want me to add a few things so let's do that. Firstly we had plans to get to Europe's immigration crisis and tie that into the big picture and I'm just going to quote him He said, The impetus to undermine these programs is to make them collapse under the added strain, which they were not designed to bear resulting in internal conflict and strife. Additionally fear of loss of identity is being used to shift demographics that are leading to the rise of nationalistic fronts in these countries

2:09:27 The entire response has been focused on the effects of the refugees and limiting damage to the European identity and economy, rather than asking what caused the crisis to begin with and how to prevent these people from fleeing their homelands. Believe me nobody wants to be a refugee! Why has the response not been to organize relief efforts and peaceful solutions to the conflicts that have given rise to the refugee crisis in order to stem the tide before a flood? Isn't this the more logical and ethical response to a humanitarian disaster of such proportions? By allowing these disasters to continue unabated and focusing on the effects, I believe the conditions are being created for fascist policies to become central to the political development of Europe." And that's a sentiment many guests have really shared with me on and off air. That the globalists feel that Europeans have too many benefits so you break the system with immigrants paint them as freeloaders

2:10:24 tell the citizens how much better off they'd be if they just paid for their own benefits, and then collapse the sense of communal safety net. Just erode the hell out of that! I think that makes sense. These greedy fucks are always trying to make us get by with less and the only things we get out of our system are the ones we really, really fight for and draw the line in the sand around Look at the countries who get the most out their system on the planet And it is probably Europe so when the globalists are thinking about who they can chip away at That's probably where they're looking You know we hit libertarians pretty hard

2:11:02 They always stick to this taxation is theft principle, and I think taxation is really more of a social contract. But it's a complete shame that we have no control over the allocation of funds if tax season came around and we all contributed 15% or so divided into categories of our choosing I think would be a lot more okay with it Because none of us are self-made and the structure of our society probably should get a small percentage of our income just for setting up the conditions in which we can make a living. You need this structure to even do what you do, otherwise it's just fucking chaos!

2:11:39 We're not crouching behind flaming trash cans in the streets avoiding machine gun clad militias. So is it that bad to contribute to the ongoing avoidance of a full scale war zone and chip into this structure that we all appreciate being here at least to a degree? But on top of those comments about the immigration crisis, he wanted me to say a bit more about Beasts Men and Gods. Now if you only heard the free show you have no idea what that is but just like the last show with Shemangineer The Plus portion centers largely around one book with some very strange THC type material in it In the water episode that book was Edidorpha in this episode its Beasts men and gods by Ferdinand Ossendowski

2:12:25 which is a largely personal memoir about a Russian doctor's experience running from the Bolshevik revolution in the 1920s, A journey that not only showed him first-hand examples of the death and destruction associated with the revolution but also brought him in contact with many interesting characters throughout China Mongolia and Tibet. Ding ding ding And much like the exploration of Edidurpha, this book is just another example of some of the odd yet consistent details revolving around things below the surface. It contains stories about strange light sources inside the earth and ancient civilization deep underground and that this civilization has advanced flying crafts unknown to man at that time

2:13:07 So we spent the second hour, or should I just say the plus portion because it's really closer to the third hour. But we spent it reading from and branching off of these themes in this particular book but he wanted me to emphasize that there's a lot more to the story of The Bloody Baron and that it's really worth reading yourself. You can also find audiobooks of it on YouTube, but he also mentioned that some historians claim that the reason the book ends without really recounting much of how Ossendowski escaped Mongolia is because he might have stolen a great deal of the treasure

2:13:43 of the Mongolian horde as he fled and that he buried it along his route with plans to return one day and recover it. And who doesn't love the idea of buried treasure on top of the inner earth stuff? But on that subject because he goes to Mongolia in Tibet, He is told a few stories from the people interacts with about The inner-earth civilization of Agartha and the passageway into Tibet And in the show we didn't get to the real gem which is the prophecy of the king of the world aka the King of Agartha. So it reads, The Hatuku of Naribanchi related the following to me when I, Osandowski visited him in his monastery in the beginning of 1921. The king of the world appeared before the lamas in this monastery 30 years ago which would be 1890 he made a prophecy for the coming half century it was as follows

2:14:40 More and more the people will forget their souls and care about their bodies. The greatest sin and corruption will reign on earth, people will become as ferocious animals thirsting for blood and death of their brothers. The crescent will grow dim and its followers will descend into beggary and ceaseless war." Its conquerors will be stricken by the sun, but will not progress upward and twice they will be visited with the heaviest misfortune which will end in insult before the eye of other peoples. The crowns of kings great and small will fall." 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

2:15:16 There will be a terrible battle among all the peoples. The sea will become red, the earth and the bottom of the sea will be strewn with bones, kingdoms will be scattered, whole peoples will die. Hunger, disease crimes unknown to the law never before seen in the world." The forgotten and pursued shall rise and hold the attention of the whole world. There will be fogs and storms, bare mountains shall suddenly be covered with forests earthquakes will come millions will change the fetters of slavery and humiliation for hunger disease and death The ancient roads will be covered with crowds wandering from one place to another. The greatest and most beautiful cities shall perish in fire, 1 2 3. Fathers shall rise against son brother against brother and mother against daughter vice crime and the destruction of body and soul shall follow families shall be scattered

2:16:10 Truth and love shall disappear. From ten thousand men one shall remain, he shall be nude and mad and without force, And the knowledge to build him a house and find his food He will howl as a raging wolf, devour dead bodies, bite his own flesh, and challenge God to fight All the earth will be emptied, God will turn away from it, and over it there will only be night and death There I shall send a people now unknown, which shall tear out the weeds of madness and vice with a strong hand and will lead those who still remain faithful to the spirit of man in the fight against evil. They will found a new life on earth purified by the death of nations

2:16:51 In the 15th year, which would be 1940 only three great kingdoms will appear which will exist happily for 71 years until 2011. Afterwards there will be 18 years of war and destruction until 2019 then the people of Agartha will come up from their subterranean caverns to the surface of earth So as Shemangineer said to me, one to two years out a Garthans may be walking among us. But nothing much else in the prophecy seems too accurate so I wouldn't hold your breath but it is quite an interesting bit of Hollow Earth lore and maybe we should just avoid the descent into complete divisiveness just in case.

2:17:35 So check out the PLUS show to hear that hour, largely about the book. TheIRSideChatsPLUS.com Sign up on Patreon You know how to do it. Shemanginiir also wanted me to end this show with Tom Clay's What The World Needs Now Unfortunately I can't because of commercial rights But i think i got just the thing And I'll catch you later. Your move, international fascists, commies, Nazi survivals and breakaway civilizations... your fucking move! You know the plan has always been to hack your brain MKUltra's trying to drive you insane They'll explode your heart if they think that's what it takes You think i'm answering the phone? Well I ain't

2:18:23 You gotta keep the curtains drawn Cause you don't want anyone thinking you're at home Well, you're not. You should tape the mail slot And baby if I seem withdrawn Let me say it's cause I just Don't wanna go and get whacked Maybe you should know that The trauma affects you like it does everyone It's just a game plan, it's what the world's become They want a pat down and a swap Don't you see what's going on? Well now you know You're better keeping on your own Cause' you can see The masters lie too much Oh baby, you can only trust yourself And if you think the system is out of touch It isn't. You can only trust yourself

2:19:21 I hope you know the elite aren't your friends They'll suck out everything from you in the end And if for some reason, You think i might be wrong. I wonder where you got that opinion from? You gotta keep the curtains drawn Cause you don't want anyone thinking your at home Well you're not! You should tape the mail slot And baby if I seem withdrawn, let me say it's cause' I just don't wanna go and get whacked Maybe you should know that the trauma affects you like it does everyone It's just a game plan. It's what the world has become They want up high down in the swamp Don't you see what is going on? Well now you know

2:20:16 You're better keeping on your own cause you can see The masters lie too much Oh baby, you can only trust yourself And if you think the system's out of touch It is and you can only trust yourself Da da da da da da Da da da da da da Da da da da da da Da da da da You might think that these problems are small Or maybe they aren't registering at all Now they know you're naive and vulnerable You won't believe all of the stunts that they'll pull

2:21:16 Cause you can see the masters lie too much Oh baby, you can only trust yourself And if you think the system's out of touch It isn't You can only trust yourself Cause you can see the masters lie too much Oh baby, you can only trust yourself And if you think the system's out of touch It is and you can only trust yourself