Robert Sullivan | Cinema Symbolism & The Esoteric Archetypes of Hollywood

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01:49 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Holy hell, higher side chatters. How is it going? I'm Greg Carlwood from sunny San Diego drinking a little drink smoking a little smoke and it is movie night on THC We're gonna look deeply into the symbols archetypes and esoterica of Hollywood cinema with our guest Robert W Sullivan the fourth

02:33 He was here last year doing a show with me and my good buddy Kyle about the royal arch of Enoch, but now his wealth of Freemasonic and Esoteric knowledge is being applied to those 35mm movies we all know and love so much. Except Black Swan I'm not a big ballerina guy... But we talk about so many great aspects of movies that i do love and im sure you will too many that i had no idea were so deep So let's pull the trigger and blast off into the world of occult, freemasonic esoterica and multi-layered symbolism of cinema with Robert Sullivan on the other side of another round of The Glasgow Kiwis THC inspired ditty that is right up my musical alley. So make some popcorn take that medicine buy a ticket take the ride and strap in guys it's showtime Here's a chance to run down the rabbit hole He's asking who is really running this show

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04:07 Take the ride, sit yourself down by the higher side. All right people we've been seeing for some time the secret symbolism and occult references embedded within pop culture, the music industry and The Hollywood Machine And today were going to dive even deeper into these things hidden beneath the surface in some of the most popular films and franchises Of our time and what better guest to point out the subtle nods to secret societies and ancient archetypes and rituals referenced within these movies than a 32nd degree mason himself Back in the THC saddle for another wild ride is returning guest Robert W. Sullivan IV. Robert is a philosopher, scholar, historian and author of two great books one of which we discussed in our last show called The Royal Arc of Enoch, The Impact of Masonic Ritual, Philosophy and Symbolism

04:53 and his latest, which we're gonna talk about today Cinema Symbolism A Guide to the Esoteric Imagery in Popular Movies. If you thought Hollywood was unoriginal before just wait it's one of my favorite topics and I'm psyched to dive into it Robert my man welcome to THC how are ya? Hey, Greg. Thanks for having me on the Higher Size Chat for round number two it's great to be here and I really appreciate you having me back on thank you! No problem man it's always a pleasure I appreciate you coming on taking the time to do it as well It's always great to talk to ya had a great time in the last show we did I really think this one's going to be even better because you picked some great movies to analyze in this book with a depth that, I can't say I've seen anywhere else. So it's gonna be awesome but i'm a bit curious man... You've been a Mason since 1997 and I'm sure you've noticed some of this stuff before but once you started going through a lot of these rituals and studying the sacred knowledge yourself was at all surprising to find out just how much of this stuff comes up in Hollywood movies?

05:49 It was a bit surprising to an extent. I think one of the real great tip-offs for me with this was when I saw the first National Treasure movie, which came out about 10 years ago. uh... but this is why when i was still working a royal arch of enoch and what i watch that i mean it's like oh my god there's the royal art ceremonial surrounded by all these masonic symbolisms to recovery of the treasure of freemasonry beneath you know in the subterranean ballpen eat the holy ground so that so then You know, and I kind of picked up on some of these themes before things like with being there. And this was really some of the material incorporated in the final chapter of The Royal Arch but then like you're right as you continue to plow away with this material and you continue your research

06:35 uh... you will definitely find this stuff turning up in these pennies popular movies i mean and it is without question you know beyond could be on the coincidence level when you see over and over again beastly into the archetype of mythology than the malady things like that so just to give your listenership to breed Just real quick, when I was writing Royal Archive, I kind of brought the Royal Archive Enoch book up to modern day. The last chapter is about Masonic Enochian solar themes in movies but there was this whole boatload of films that I wanted to talk about that had these same themes in it and obviously couldn't have a 400 page chapter in Royal Archive Enoch so when I finished Royal Archive, I started writing this new book we're talking about today

07:15 called cinema symbolism, which I talk about. I go further into detail not necessarily Masonic themes although some are you know with this deep arcana esoterica embedded in popular movies but yes being a Freemason certainly helps and definitely studying this mysticism for the last 20 years. I basically took the knowledge that I applied to Royal Arch and placed it and put it together put it on hollywood i mean and it's without question that this material on this clearly being used by hollywood producers and directors to convey hidden meanings to embed their movies with this you know ancient mythology this is going one no doubt about it

07:52 Yeah, man. It's super fascinating the more and more you look at it And I'm always shocked to hear an analysis of a new movie and have so many in your book Right in a row is just awesome So let's talk about a couple of these movies Let's talk back to the future! I think this is one of the less obvious ones? I had no idea there was so much attention to detail and so much meaning behind The times and dates and all kinds of stuff used in the movie It's pretty impressive Can you tell people a little bit about some things that you found Yeah, absolutely. And you're right and this kind of goes into your first question a little bit For me finding this material in movies there is always... Finding it in movies that you least expect it to be really interesting and the Back To The Future one

08:37 overwrought with imagery and esoteric symbolism, but like you're right on cursory glance you wouldn't notice it. But for lack of a better term you have a lot of Egyptian mythology going on in the Back to the Future trilogy You have the concept of The Solar Family which is The McFly Family which would be Osiris-Isis and whores and horse would be the son child and of course george mcfly would correspond to your sires arch type who is the father who was killed in resurrected uh... men of course this happens in part two where he's murdered and then brought back to life and then you have a virginal mother figure who is on the rain and of course they are coveted or battle against on any gypsy mythology this would be the set or step character darkness personified who is

09:22 known with the greek mythology is typhon this turns up as bith tannin uh... the name typhon and tannin are all but phonetically exactly the same of course it's a solar family the mcflies reside in lion estates and this is of course a reference to leo the lion which is the house of zodiac which is ruled by the sun on and then you've got the document the doc brown character who is sort of a hermetic hermitress magistus wizard like character and i want to listen to understand i am kind of going over a lot of material here mommy i know we're limited time so if you want more detail please read the book but obviously You have the Doc Brown character corresponding to, surrounded by the number 5 developing the flux capacitor on November 5th 1955. This corresponds to the fifth card of the tarot known as the Hierophant this is the manipulator of time and space you read the earmarks of this card and especially Crowley's take on it

10:20 the you know by default the master of space time then of course you have a little dog einstein becoming the world's first time traveler at one twenty one am one twenty-one is a reference to the one point twenty one gigawatts of electricity needed to uh... fire the flux capacitor will one of the real unique on solar attributes that that is really very uniquely veiled in the movie

10:59 is the date that the time machine is activated at 10.04 PM, this is drilled into your head in the first movie. 10.04 is a reference to the date of October 4th which I want to say it's 276 day of year which means there are exactly 88 days left in the year, this is a solar reference on with the energy of the sun and allows the DeLorean to break the space-time continuum. Of course, this is basically... I get into it in much more depth into the book but its basically transforming the DeLorean into the Sun Chariot of Hebrew mysticism of the Maese Merkurber It's very deep material but again you'll find this back in The Future The Bif Tanon character is Typhon, the enemy of the sun and of course he kills

12:01 osiris or george mcfly in part two and i'm not george mcfly is resurrected on by a sign that when you know assisted by the mother of our uses the virginal arch type there to find out in part two and then in in part two also be older older bif tanning character uh... drives around in a taxi cab um... bollywood identified as the looks were taxicab it again this another egyptian reference their so yeah just just on back to the future trilogy swells with the gypsy mythology but i'm yeah i mean i mean back to the future i want to say it's either chapter three or four in the book and probably one of my all-time favorite chapters in the book because it what is a string of movies that people are kind of familiar with star wars with the monomyth and the matrix with mascusism but the the the egyptian motifs going on in the back to the future trilogy

12:48 pretty well unknown. My book is really one of the first ones to document it, I mean there's some other esoteric references going on in that movie with buildings being placed you know into the building in one time frame has a dualistic meaning and another time frame you know like in 1985 the building may be something that its different in 2015 usually they're the polar opposite this ties into concepts of dualism Gnosticism as well so yeah me just a ongoing wanted to in the back of the future movies and it's probably one of my uh... my favorite chapters of a book because it's if you're right it's one of those string of movies where it's overloaded with esoteric symbolism but it's it's a string of movies that you really want to expect to find it

13:28 Yeah, wow you just hit us with so much and one part that was kind of interesting is when you're talking about becoming typhon in the second film. You know he gets the sports almanac and it gets all the insider information for the next so many years It's funny because someone might not think that, you know or might not make the connection to that reference of Typhon but there is a scene where there is a video I guess it's a porn video sitting on his bar and its called Black Taboo which is almost the same as black magic. Which is bringing up that kind of esoteric thing in the back of people minds so it making that connection right there by placing a video with that title in the frame. I thought that was kind of interesting an interesting detail

14:12 Yeah, absolutely. You'll find these little details placed throughout these films in general but back to the future... The trilogy does a really great job with it. Right you have the Typhon character being sort of the master of black magic and that's exactly what Biff Tandon does People just kind of go by people but if you really think about it he is invested with forbidden knowledge of the future and he uses it. He basically uses time as a black magic device to create this wealthy empire, which is completely corrupt. It's completely evil and that's exactly what Biff Tannen becomes. And you're right you'll see the little video Black Taboo referencing black magic behind him in... This is at the top of the casino hotel in part two also that's really unique. And this was another little attention to detail going on in that movie is when Marty McFly goes into

15:01 the it's revealed in the movie that mad dog killed doc brown over a horseshoe incident on any of you pay attention to that scene the wax figure up at ten and is actually holding up a horseshoe sort of simpson's sort of metaphorically anticipating the events apart three so your correct grade you'll find these are very hidden nuances and symbolism going more into you know it'll just be passed over very briefly but they're very jointly placed and they are definitely intentionally place there there's no question about it

15:46 Yeah. One other example that I wanted to touch on, that I thought was pretty interesting in the Back To The Future movies is In part two, George McFly's Tombstone has a date selected for a very specific reason. It is actually a reference to the Fool tarot card right? That is absolutely correct! What I talk about in the book one of the overarching themes no pun intended with cinema symbolism was talking about the Jungian archetypes coming off of Tarot cards this ties into the idea that collective unconscious on the middle you're correct to george mcfly character father corresponds almost perfectly to the uh... emblems of the um... full tarot card and you'll find if you watch it you know sort of the you know sort of a loner recluse who's very imaginative than sort of you know eccentric in this is sort of the george mcfly

16:35 but only wants to do is he produces the great work, the science fiction work which turns him into a famous author. But he's sort of a basket case you know in high school kind of the loner type and this course corresponds exactly to the full archtype within The Tower Cards but yeah if you watch part two that's right it's George McFly's birthday is April 1st which is April Fool's of course and this is the Fool card, April Fools of course. And a reference to the Fool card from the Major Arcana of The Tarot. I talk about this in the book certain characters who are living and breathing tarot cards George McFly is one of them he's the fool card straight out of The Major Arcana you'll find it in cinema the living and breathing tarot card and your correct Greg, George McFly is definitely one of them

17:19 Yeah, it's so fun to analyze those archetypes and realize just how many times they're reused and just so recognizable. Another movie to move on that you analyzed that I loved the breakdown of was The Wizard of Oz because i had heard before that it was deep symbolism for money and the financial system but, I'd never heard the real details and with the political context of its time which You also add in. Can you break that one down for us a little bit? It's probably one of the more interesting ones to me Yeah, absolutely Greg you're gonna have to give me a little time here And if like I said if I start dragging on please feel free to interrupt me. Oh absolutely take your time Really with the Wizard of Oz You have three layers of symbolism going on and let me point out to your listeners that the author of The Wizard of Oz

18:07 was a man named L. Frank Baum, who is a member of Madame Blavatsky's Theosophy Society so you know some people you hear the naysayers say oh well these people would have no knowledge of this this is all just one giant coincidence that's bull these authors these movie makers are very in tune with this material and again it's intentionally placed I have little doubt about that sometimes of course it can be coincident there's an exception to every rule but um... the argument all these guys had never heard of this or this is all just one giant coincidence that argument falls flat on its face. Al Frank Baum, the author of The Wizard Of Oz was a member of Theosophy his wife was too they were very well versed in this esoterica and if your listeners aren't familiar I'm sure they are but

18:52 make a long story real short, Blavatsky's Theosophy Movement was basically neo-gnosticism to make a long story real short. But you have in the Wizard of Oz these three levels of symbolism going on one is... and they're all present One is of course that this is just a mere adventure about a girl who gets whisked away to a magical land, has an adventure goes home story over you know have a nice day. This is what you would call...this is what Albert Pike could recall the explanation for the profane masses. This is nonsense of course this is just your profane explanation to use Albert Pike's words Then you have the political allegory going on. I'm gonna try to segregate them out, but they do overlap to a bit of an extent. You have the entire political allegory going on within The Wizard of Oz and you have to be cognizant of The Wizard of Oz is essentially one gigantic political economic socio-allegory of the United States of America from around 1896

19:48 around 1900 where you had things going on such as the free silver movement which was the gold standard only being applied to silver, instead of using gold to back paper money you were using silver. You had the depression in 1896 where laborers and farmers were undergoing foreclosure, laborers I think

20:25 and you had mckinley who wanted to use the gold standard to back paper money and and this is what you have going on in the wizard of oz you have the yellow brick road is the gold standard leading to emerald city which is green which is symbolizing bb paper money be depreting of united states currency and of course a wizard of odds is none other than president william mckinley uh... the the the the masonic president print making me was number twenty five it's interesting if you watch the movie when scarecrow at the end gets the brain gets to diploma on and and mckinley the wizard of oz invests the scarecrow with you know quote unquote wisdom you know what is what is the wizard of all what does this care for doing he recites back to the wizard before we set a proposition of euclid a square plus b squared equal c squared which is actually be emblem of a masonic worshipful master so you'll find that little masonic reference going one in the movie

21:18 and then you have things like it you know you know uh... the cowardly lion who's all war but nobody this would represent or symbolize eugene dabs at william shenny bryant you have a wicked which of the west who is green skinned on this would represent paper money did to the negative side of paper money which will be inflation you have to be the the the scarecrow was of course before america the american farmer arm joins with the tin man who is the uh... american laborer and you'll notice in the film that uh... the labor of the ten minutes in mobile on he can't move and again this is symbolizing the depression of eighteen ninety six uh... which saw all america laborers being laid off in droves however he gets moving again he gets you know symbolically back to work by being oiled up um... and this is symbolic of the oil companies have

22:08 people like JP Morgan, Rockefeller Standard Oil who put a lot of the laborers back to work so that's the Tin Man gets mobile again by being oiled up or being put back to work by the American oil companies. And then other political allegories you'll have a little too dancing crew troops at the beginning, The Lullaby League who are the sleeping yet awakening women's movement and then the lollipop Gil, who is unionized labor. This was coming into effect under the McKinley administration so you'll have this entire gigantic political allegory going on with The Wizard of Oz I detailed much more in the book and then again you'll have the tornado which symbolizes foreclosure of the farm taking a farm away somewhere else So you had that entire allegory going on within The Wizard of Oz but then you had this very deeper Gnostic theme going on in The Wizard of Oz

22:59 And again, this ties into Madame Blavatsky's Theosophy movement, Neonosticism which of course Baum was a member of where you have the initiatic experience Dorothy Gale undergoing initiation into the mysteries receiving those So in enlightenment, which for her is self-revelation epiphany where she realizes for her, her epiphany is that there's no place like home. And of course she's whisked away in a tornado representing the winding staircase of the mysteries, the winding staircase at the second degree of Freemasonry known as you know, the middle chamber of King Solomon's Temple. This would be the ladder of Mithras in the Mithraic Mysteries where you ascend and descend to gain esoteric wisdom. So Dorothy essentially ascends the ladder which is taken away to this magical land she travels on the golden path an enlightenment

23:51 but of course the golden path of religion leads to the false messiah, the demiurge known to the Gnostics, the lesser material god which is of course is the Wizard of Oz who's nothing but a windbag, a phony which is ultimately exposed by The Little Dog who sort-of serves as Dorothy Gayle's little familiar. A familiar is an animal that assists which is on errands, and of course I'm not saying Dorothy Dale was a witch but of course the little dog exposes acts like a little familiar as I guess it's the way for me to describe it and exposes The Wizard as a fraud. And then of course Blavatsky talked about that in order to receive gnosis

24:31 and initiation into the mysteries. One must have a brain, one must have a heart and one must have courage. Thus Dorothy Gale has three sojourners who seek wisdom fortitude and courage that's the symbology of there And of course the wizard once exposed You know, and this was of course the fear of all religions that leads to a false messiah. And this is symbolized at the end where the false messiah takes Dorothy back to Kansas after she receives her epiphany in a hot air balloon symbolizing that all religion is nothing but hot air and that the divine spark lies within you. And then again, this is for Dorothy Gale to discover on her own, but for her, her epiphany is there's no place like home. And it's interesting also

25:13 bomb also incorporates this with the witches of odds the two which is it this is in the book it's also windy um... movie in-the-book there's two witches from up north and south in the movie it's only one on glinda of the self and of course glenda's wand is kept with a pentagram with one point up to points down symbolizing the white capitalistic magic but in the book it's the two whiches and its it's north and south movement uh... this is how one receives a sentio by moving north and south up the ladder of initiation, the ladder of Mithras, the winding staircase of Freemasonry. The two women who use the black magic are of the east and west in Oz and this symbolizes stagnation one does not move up-and-down or receive gnosis by moving left and right or west to east once someone receives Gnosis by moving upwards

26:01 uh... up the ladder of enlightenment so does but to be too black magicians of oz or of the east and west while the two white magicians are of the north and south symbolizing sublime doses so you'll find this entire gnostic religion on initiation into the mysteries going one inside a wizard of oz also i documented much more in the book so really you know, and again you'll find at the end where Dorothy wakes up from her adventure in Kansas having undergone this initiatic experience. And of course no one else understands her there now the profane masses again to quote Albert Pike but you have again this entire Theosophy Gnosis

26:37 Gnostic initiation, symbology going on in the Wizard of Oz combined with the political allegory. It's fascinating it's very layered you know you're talking here hitting on some of my favorite chapters but yeah Wizard of Oz is just overloaded with esoteric imagery three levels of symbology going on and you know the political and the esoteric are very fascinating studies Yeah, man. Boom! You really know your stuff? Well I looked at this for 20 years Greg and you know like i said I really want your listeners to understand that basically the Royal Archive Enoch was 20 years of studying this stuff and what I did was I really took the 20 years of studying applied it to movies then hence cinema symbolism was born out of that It's really a continuation of the final chapter of The Royal Archive Enoch

27:23 Yeah, man. It's super interesting to me and I'd say of all those layers in The Wizard of Oz the theme that i find most fascinating is that the theme of the symbolism of financial systems and currencies and the fact that the movie is so focused on wizardry because To me, money is wizardry. We talked a little bit about alchemy lately on the show and I see the whole fractional reserve banking system as alchemy. These banking families have created unlimited wealth for themselves out of essentially nothing casting a spell over the whole world to worship the green paper they print. That's magical man! That's alchemy to me!" yeah that that's certainly one way of looking at it is the concept of uh... might be a creek creation of wealth out-of-nothing with a credit card if you cannot real money on you really never see it you know it it just if your paying back interest which kind of is seen and so yeah i mean it is a form of alchemy and you're right

28:15 the bring up alchemy because, you know just to give a brief preview I'm writing Cinema Symbolism 2 right now and alchemy is finding is a very dominant theme in movies. I touch on it a little bit in cinema symbolism but um... a lot of themes are very alchemical in nature and what im talking about is not necessarily uh... you know movies about people turning base metal into gold although Goldfinger the James Bond movie is really the godfather that

28:59 movies about transition to the self, things like that which is very alchemical. Alchemy is a very popular flavor in Hollywood. There's just so much to The Wizard of Oz but another interesting detail that's a little racy that I guess comes out a lot more in the book than in the movie but as far as the breakdown of what the different characters represent...the flying monkeys in this story are supposed to symbolize Native Americans in some way can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, that's right. If you read the book it's more known in the book than it is in the movie who are sort of the subservience to The Wicked Witch and this could also ultimately tie into the American Indians are subservient to The Wicked Witch

29:42 being the negative representation of money that the monkeys are sort of subservient to the United States of America is one way of looking at it. But if you read the book, it becomes clear that the flying monkeys are symbolic of Native Americans they talk about how the flying monkeys once ruled the land of Oz carefree did whatever they wanted but then they were ultimately taken away and other people moved in and basically became sort of indentured servants onto a higher master which of course is basically what a net native americans were they've been a once ruled the land in our brick basically placed on reservations and for lack of better word had all their lands taking away and bomb makes this clear in the book on that the flying monkeys are allegorically being native americans who have their lands taken away the monkeys

30:25 it to but i'll be at something like what you want cinema symbolism if you think you'll find in the shining also with uh... by stanley kubrick of the whole concept of the overlook hotel representing united states of america being built on our indian burial ground symbolizing the united states bearing the native american nations that's a study and taking one much more incident symbolism too Man, it's just so interesting how calculated these details are. You think something as random as a name is just like picked out of the ether but no that's definitely by design I mean even you talked a little bit about the political allegory and the presidential representation but also Dorothy It's... The name Dorothy Doro-thee is Theodore backwards which is reference to Theodore Roosevelt right?

31:13 Well, that's right. You have at the end of the movie basically McKinley and Theodore Roosevelt, the common man, Dorothy as sort of a representation of the common person, the common American I mean this ties into the political allegory, this was exactly what Theodore Roosevelt was trying to embrace aggressive movement things like that which roosevelt was the or is it always all about so you have dorky gail as a representation of theodore roosevelt as well on any right to get dork dorky is a palindrome dorothy backwards if you do work symbolizing feudal roosevelt i mean even the name coach total little dog is a reference to keep totaling are not drinking which is an esoteric reference to williams jenning brian on the democratic challenger too

32:00 to that this stuff is very intentionally done. If you were to see it once or twice, you could kind of chalk this up as oh maybe it's a coincidence but when you see the stuff over and over again yeah I mean your beyond the coincidence phase You also mentioned something that I had totally forgotten about, and that is the urban legend that if you play Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon with Wizard Of Oz on mute, the movie and album sync up pretty well. And I actually have done this! I did it when I was like 16 or 17, I went to Best Buy and bought both of them

32:46 And I would say that it isn't perfect, but it's got enough moments to really make one wonder if this is just like an expression of the muse within two separate but both masterful pieces of art or coincidence or something more. It is intriguing though if you're into that kind of thing. I'm sure now you can find it on YouTube where someone has already synced it up, but it's worth a look! Yeah, absolutely Greg. I have met people...I'm 50-50 on it For starters, I've never tried the experiment that I talk about in the book but i've met people who swear on everything holy that it works Alternatively, I've met people who have said oh it doesn't work and I tried it It's supposed to work you know of course this is no state secret if you done it correctly

33:27 that the song money will queue up immediately when dorothy opens the door and odds are odds is there in color now on this the transition to black-and-white the collar and that they did supposed to sink perfectly with money but but like i said i uh... i've never tried it And I've talked to people who swear it works perfectly and other people who say, oh you know it doesn't work at all. But yeah, it's the Pink Floyd album we're talking about obviously and yeah, people can try if they want to. It's Dark Side of the Moon is supposed to sync in the lyrics and the songs are supposed to sync to The Wizard Of Oz like I said this author has never tried but I'll leave it for the person to give a whirl and make up their own mind on it

34:04 Yeah, it is fun and you're right that one moment the money moment is probably the biggest. There's also a moment where in one of the songs there's a lot of... It starts with a lot of bells and that's the part where she's racing on the bicycle so then kind of makes sense but of course there are lulls in the middle we were like I don't know waiting for that next moment and something hits you like it kinda works though! So it is fun and this just weird how things in this world work out like that But to switch gears a little bit to another series, we ended our last show talking about the symbolism of James Bond and why the 007 number was chosen. Tell us about that again? It's been so long plus you have a ton of new information to add to the James Bond pile too don't ya?

34:50 Oh, absolutely. Yeah the James Bond material is really interesting I could talk about this for five hours so i'm going to do my best to condense some of this but you have the books written by Ian Fleming who worked in intelligence during World War II for the British government during World War 2 and Fleming was very influenced by The Mystical and The Occult a lot of people aren't aware that this is coming out more and more that during World War II and even during World War I, the Great Beast himself 666, Aleister Crowley was a double agent for British intelligence. Believe it or not, Aleister Crowley's handler in British intelligence during WWII was none other than Ian Fleming so Fleming had this great occult influence upon him

35:34 and um... other people who moved in this circle was dennis weekly on who wrote the double rides out that features an alistair crowley character named okada whose summons to go to mendes and baffled at or bathroom ed in the double right out there was a movie made by hammer studios in the late nineteen sixties but also moving in the circle of ronald ball martha charlie in the chocolate chocolate factory doll actually army corporate some hermetic themes in inch in charlie and the chocolate factory and i'll actually with the screenplay for chichi bang-bang which was also written by you plumbing who who's obviously more well known for the james bond work but yeah i mean the whole thing was yours your seven is a necessary reference to this on uh... elizabethan maggots named doctor john d who served as queen elizabeth's court astrologer soothsayer he prophesized her coronation date

36:26 on the said basically queen elizabeth the first you get coordinated on this day do i have a great golden rain she listened to him and she did and it happened medical g is known for creating along with this guy named edward kelly the system of conjuration noticing knocking in magic uh... were one communicates with angels and demons but he was involved with the spy ring under the ages of on sir francis walsingham to basically protect queen elizabeth from extreme roman catholics in the in england the jesuits and you know other people who worked in this arms firing would have been d cali uh... francis drake walter raleigh geordana bruno did dominican prior

37:05 on the sort of from this quasi rose accretion style firing to prevent on any sort of uh... assassination suit attempts on queen elizabeth is sort of a security spy ring around her and when d when b would correspond with her he would speak was signed the correspondence zero zero seven or double oh seven if you look at the schedule it's die glasses It's a pair of circles with a line over them and then a hash down the side, it looks like spy glasses. It's actually 007 and the symbol meant that the correspondence was for her eyes only and he was her eyes in the field. And of course Fleming picks up on this

37:42 most likely obviously through Crowley, and this is why James Bond is 007 or 007. It's an esoteric reference to this early Elizabethan magician astrologer and spy master Dr John Dee but you'll find very hermetic and Kabbalistic and Rosicrucians themes in the James Bond movies on both of the books and films I mean you have the alchemist you know oracle finger who wants to transmute the metal the golden in fort knox on he was to make it worthless and thus make his gold supply worth more and of course he's got is on hermetic philosopher stone there you know the little nuclear dirty dirty device which is going to detonate in in fort knox

38:23 to make that gold worthless and alchemically make his gold worth more money. And then you have, the whole concept with Bond, you have the Alchemical Wedding, the unification of the sun and moon, Bond being the sun, the moon being the bond girl they always unite this equips Bond could go on and defeat the Demiurge like villain whether it be The Alchemist or Goldfinger AU Orrick is the alchemical symbol for gold that's another gold reference or alchemical reference, then you have the dragon Hugo Drax, the voodoo master Mr. Bigg, the illuminist Ernst Stavro Blofeld who wants to take over the world You have Bond who gets the hermetic aid from Hermes Trismegistus like Wizard Q Who gets magical wisdom with esoteric wisdom in a form of gadget

39:11 And of course the sun being bond is set on the solar journey by M, and M is a solar reference. M is the 13th letter of the alphabet so you have the sun in the 12 houses of the zodiac being esoterically referenced with M, that's very unique. Then of course the Bond girl, the sacred feminine Sophia divine wisdom Her name is always overwrought with sexual innuendo. I'm not gonna get into it, that's kind of well known but you have the entire thing of the unification of the masculine and the feminine what the Rosicrucians would refer to as the alchemical wedding which always equips Bond with knowledge or gnosis on the unification, the oneness to go on and defeat a demiurge like super villain so you have this entire hermetical theme going one into James Bond books and films and again you always have these

40:01 over the top archetype villains, whether it be The Alchemist, Goldfinger, the dragon Hugo Drax. And again you know the guy wants to take over the world, the Illuminati type character, Ernst Stavro Blofeld just a ton going on in the James Bond stuff but yet he did little hieroglyph for a zero zero seven that come straight out of the world of john d on and then there's there some really interesting information going on with um... p and with its allister crowley influence on flaming malarkey born aware this that when in plumbing was working in british intelligence during the war uh... but not see number two man rudolph has flew to england and he was captured by british and thrown into the tower of london

40:44 has was trying to flight has actually cast his horoscope i mean you know who rudolph has was he's basically hitler's number two man in nazi germany has been a one or two front war he kept his horoscope and thought that he could broker peace with england through the scotland was captured thrown into the tower of london and of course it's no state secret that has wasn't to be a cult astrology a lot of the headlock excuse me a lot of the nazi hierarchy was as well so i'll just agree to true story alistair crowley went in fleming and said listen let me try to uh... you know what we need let me interview this guy let me interrogate rudolph has you know our performance of goatish magic you don't try to conjure some demons will scare this guy have to death and try to get any answers true story he's and what will try to get has to talk about some of the um... not see proclivity towards astrology

41:33 find out some of the weaknesses and we can use it against them and i'm planning for another the idea to actually go to winston churchill with a churchill ultimately vetoed the idea but on the uh... i mean you have this entire or caught influence or not inflamming any control on dennis wheatley and ronald doll into that mix as well on its also coming out now they don't know how to get into this briefly that armed crowley used to throw these parties where he would secretly mask the food with hallucinogens like LSD, mescaline things like that and this has always been chalked up to Crowley being Crowley 666 being 666 you know this is just you know the great beast being the great beast more of his you-know-what called monkey shines. This is actually being turned out

42:17 coming on now this was actually the forerunner of mk ultra being done at the behest of flaming and Winston Churchill to find out the effects of psychotronic drugs things like LSD on an unsuspecting populace. Crowley seems to be the forerunner of this, Crowley would dope up a dinner party take notes on it find out what their reactions were and again this seems to be a business being done at the behest of people like winston churchill you know and it was before one urban chaos for the fascinating study the research on this is just coming out now but i'm not probably was on their heavily involved with british intelligence both during war ward one and war two and during war two we inflamming the author of the james bond stuff with regards sort of over so alistair crowley's uh... involvement bombing counter espionage during world war two

43:03 Wow, man. I had no idea that these simple seeming spy movies were just so deep beneath the surface and...I love the stories of Crowley and those references and his connection to Ian Fleming is super interesting Some of my favorite Crowley stories are these rituals to contact higher entities It's pretty far out there And i'm curious have you ever participated in a type of contact ritual being a 32nd degree mason does this ever come up? No, I've been asked this before. Have I ever done any sort of evocation or anything like that? No no, I never have! I've never participated in it but i am sort of of the belief that...I do believe there is something to this material. I do not believe that these rituals and these Enochian and you know evocations and Goetia style rituals should be taken lightly

43:53 I do believe there is something to it, so I have always urged people not to participate in this unless they really know what they're doing or they really know what they're getting into. But I know, to answer your question, I've never participated in any sort of John D-like scrying ritual or evocation, Galatian magic... anything like that but I'm not one to take it lightly. I do believe there is something to this material and i've never participated in it, but um... I am very wary of it and would kind of a demolish a person not not to do it unless they really knew what they were doing but know Greg I have never participated on in anything like that

44:29 I'm very curious and i'm kind of like you, I feel like I should be pretty prepared if I was going to do something because I just like to get that personal validation that there is something intelligent out there in a non-physical form that can communicate with you but uh... You gotta be careful because a lot of times people who have made this contact talk about these entities' desire to deceive And it gets pretty hairy, but I'd like to know there was something there. So someday maybe I'll put in the effort to get it all right and get all my ducks in a row and try to contact something." Yeah, I've heard horror stories on this and coming from people who you know are not just people who are just making up stuff. I've heard stories of people who have tried to combine yoga with royal archmasonry and wound up invoking a demon. I've heard people who get drunk on a Friday night go around with this material then the next thing you know you got some sort of Enochian demon hanging around

45:27 Yeah, yeah. Not good basically and it's the sort of thing where I've never participated in anything like this so I don't think I really want to but I generally admonish people not to try this stuff not to take it lightly if you are going to do it my advice is make sure you damn well know what the hell it is you're doing because on this this stuff can turn very dangerous very quickly I'm told Wow, yeah. That's interesting that you've talked to some people that have had those negative experiences Do you think there is anything positive to be gained from trying this kind of stuff? Because generally the attitude is almost always Be careful something bad can happen do you think anything good can happen well the idea behind this all is and this goes back to like Renaissance Kabbalists

46:12 and magicians who were invoking these entities the idea behind it whether whether you believe it's good or bad is that if you're invoking these demons for wisdom and even if your invoking a demonic entity and your invoking it to gain wisdom and insight and you know you know thats ok theres really no harm in that The problem with this is some of these entities, you know they're very mercurial. You have to know what it is you're doing that like you said they can trick you and you have to give these things a license to depart otherwise they may want to stick around and then of course you get the idea that on the missile courses the whole john d doctor faust a story that these guys are seeking wisdom for personal gain which is a no-no again this is the doctor foust is john you know do who's john b basically is trying to gain sight you're trying to get inside all the mysteries of the universe

47:00 The idea is that by invoking these demonic and angelic entities, people think oh well you know it's an angel so that's a good thing. If you read the works of these guys the angelic beings can actually be more harmful than the demonic beings. Yeah, if you're gonna invoke an angel and especially one of the archangels these things are more deadly than the demons. The demons don't really mind talking to you because they kind of like the interaction but I mean if you're invoking one of these godlike archangels basically things have better things to do with their time and frown upon humanity These things don't like humanity

47:37 creation that these things can become very jealous of, so the demonic entity can actually be more beneficial than the archangel who can be very vicious. So you know, you read stories about this... I guess there can be some benefits to it but yeah, if you read all the accounts they always seem to wind up with bad effects and negative happenings. That always seems to be the case at any rate. So yeah, I kind of always admonish people not to do it! Man, it's so interesting to me. I'm very very curious Getting back to the symbolism a little bit What do you think the main reason reasons are for putting this in movies? Are these filmmakers just trying to pay tribute to The Lodge or are they trying to appeal to something in our subconscious like a type of visual nicotine maybe a little bit of both

48:24 Yeah, absolutely. I think that's right. It's a little bit of both. For some of these directors there is a chess game going on and they like to challenge you if you pick up on this arcana. I think embedding esoteric in mythology transforms the piece of celluloid into this great mythological masterpiece. This is never more true with movies like Star Wars or The Matrix, things like that. You definitely delve into the idea of the collective unconscious of Carl Gustav Jung where this material, this mythology, sorcery magic astrology religion

49:00 you know, is part of all collective unconscious. We're not aware of it by these filmmakers sort of tapping into this unknown spring well of mythology that kind of hooking us with hooking us with this material That's certainly one way of looking at it and I've been asked this before why would they do this? It's the best way for me to describe it. It's like an architect incorporating sacred geometry into a building, it's turning the building into a memory temple to stand the test of time when you incorporate these astrological alignments into the building your symbolically drawing down divinity it's the same sort of thing when you're incorporating this answer character in this arcana into these movies returning them into a piece of mythology almost i mean you know who the hell doesn't know can quote lines from things like star wars i mean if that is in modern-day mythology i don't know what is so you have

49:51 going on, I mean by my goodness gracious Hollywood is literally printing money off this material. So you have multiple reasons why this is being done it's like you said its almost spiritual nicotine people the collective unconscious can't get enough of it and you have it being incorporated to transform a piece of celluloid into a piece of sublime mythology I mean, and then I also do believe some of these directors especially guys like Darren Aronofsky Stanley Kubrick like to play a game of chess with the viewer where they see hey can you pick up on what I'm incorporating into these movies because it's so adroitly done and it's so subtle.

50:29 uh... and i believe you me great i mean i have to watch these movies sometimes you know multiple times to pick up on this stuff army and and you know i i even tell the story will quickly market get into the specifics when i was doing analyst of black swan in cinema symbolism there's a whole out alchemical take on that movie which are excised out a similar cinema symbolism operating in cinema symbolism too but what i was going to help chemical portion there was actually some symbology that went by me. That I actually could have incorporated in Cinema Symbolism 1, but to make a long story short Aronofsky snuck it by me. So yeah these film makers are very adroit and expert when it comes to incorporating this material they know what they're doing its not by coincidence and it's really turning the film into a mythological masterpiece for lack of better word

51:17 Yeah, man. I think that makes a lot of sense and I used to be inclined to think that there were negative reasons behind most of this but you know one of my recent guests Jay Weiner broke down the work of James Cameron and Christopher Nolan in a way that makes me think some of these directors are trying to spark a subtle reintroduction to Gnosticism and some of this enlightening information to the masses maybe they're trying to do this for positive reasons, not just to increase the legacy of the film and the success of the film but maybe to enlighten the masses in a way that they don't get regularly. Do you think some of that's happening also? Oh sure, sure. Yeah I mean you have movies that are very Gnostic not only eye opening but you know have awakening effects on people like the Matrix trilogy is one of them so it's a whole movie about consciousness and becoming aware all false surrounding and false circumstances no question about it It's the one thing you look at it like this you sit in a movie theater its church

52:12 It's a church-like atmosphere where you receive light or enlightenment from undergoing this mystical journey on the big screen. You're presented with archetypes, this could be described as a religious experience to an extent where you know you're in this church like atmosphere receiving light So yes, you can have movies that not only have Gnostic themes in them but are in themselves trying to awaken you. Trying to spark a divine spark in you the Wizard of Oz is one and you watch movies like The Truman Show with Jim Carrey about awakening and becoming conscious and having epiphany so yes I mean it's twofold You have this subtle Gnostic theme going on which are very embedded in the movie

52:54 but you can have the entire movie experience is a enlightening, sort of pseudo-religious experience. I definitely would not disagree with that You go to church and hear about Jesus? Well in movies you've got Jesus Christ! The Christ Archetype, the Savior, the Savior of Mankind Neo who wants to wake mankind up from the evil machines James Cole, JC who wants to come back in time and save mankind from a deadly virus. You know Superman who comes to Earth from his only you know the only begotten son with magical occult powers to save mankind from itself who resurrects the dead in Superman 1978 or Lois you know resurrects Lois Lane from the dead so yeah I mean you'll find the Christ Savior archetype in theater all over the place and again it can parallel religious experience

53:41 No question about it. I do not disagree with that take on it. Well, I got some...I got an excuse now next time someone criticizes me for being lazy and distracted with TV and movies like this be like hey man this is my enlightenment ritual okay we've gone over this its clear as day Yeah, absolutely. I mean it you think about what let me think about a movie theater? I mean you have aisles...I mean it's laid out like a church and you know You go to church or synagogue and yet hear about these biblical figures well these figures can be astrological in nature And again this ties into the collective unconscious and uh you know 12 monkeys James Cole 12 monkeys twelve houses of the zodiac James Cole JC Jesus Christ

54:24 The cinema is the religious experience. You may not be aware of it, but these filmmakers are I assure you of that." And um...you also talk a lot about horror movies in the book and that makes a lot of sense because often the catalyst for the evil coming through is some type of ritual or some type of occult witchcraft or something similar to that and We recently had a guest who claimed to commune with Baphomet himself and it was very interesting, but I did want to ask you knowing as much as you do about secret societies have you seen a long history of contact with this specific entity coming up through the years?

55:03 No, I wouldn't say anything like that. I know that the Goat of Mendes or the Baphomet drawing sometimes gets Freemasons into trouble. The Goat of Mendes drawing was drawn by a French Transcendentalist named Alaphus Levy and it's really more of an Gnostic icon than it is a dark emblem. It deals with a lot of themes relating to dualism, things like that. I do talk about the Goat of Mendes in the Cinema Symbolism book in relation to witchcraft and werewolves in specific because there's a tie-in with witchcraft and werewolves

55:42 but um... it gets remission in the trouble because a levy was off remain soon as well but the works of allot this levy uh... for lack of a better word provide the wall material that albert pike used to draft uh... morals and dogma of the scottish right so there's a nexus between pike and levy arm and of course let me draw with the go to mend its and its pockets at the levees works that Albert Pike actually plagiarizes at some point in some points that actually become morals and dogma of the Scottish Rite. So it does, it can get Freemasonry into trouble a little bit but I always do point out to people that the Pike book Morals and Dogmas is really more about comparative religion than it is about Freemasonry But The Goat of Mendes is an interesting drawing It's very dualistic, deals with a lot of themes of light and dark good and evil

56:30 there's numerous ways to interpret it some people just see it as a demonic entity I really don't see it that way but um... and I know it can freak people out on my special with the people who see it for the first time but no one I know of no one or Freemason who is actually made contact with Bob Baffin a at all in my lifetime at any rate right on I mean makes sense I was curious and I didn't want to have an expert on without asking sure sure very interested in that contract read lately its just It's so outside of the normal scope of things that it's just weird. But man, I do love this stuff and you have a background that gives a new layer of context that I really do appreciate. I know i'm going to be getting a little bit of flack for being so friendly with his 32nd degree mason. It happened a little bit last time when I had Lone Milo Diquette on but that's on me and I really thought this was a fun show When your get into large numbers in an audience your gonna have little sections

57:26 alter paranoid about certain different things and it happens for sure short yes or absolutely i mean i don't know how i'd that fact from anyone mama blue lodge remade since the twenty ninety seven amicable saint john's lodge number twenty five here in baltimore i became a thirty second of the scottish right our valley of baltimore or in maryland in nineteen ninety-nine on very proud of my masonic membership And I do not believe that the Royal Archer V-Noc or cinema symbolism would exist without me being a Freemason. So, I have no problem with it but if someone doesn't like it... It's the old line Gregg, I can't make everybody happy so I wouldn't even try to. I hear you man! I struggle with that all the time. So, uh, I really do appreciate your work man and appreciate you coming on. It is always a pleasure. Is there anything else you'd like to leave people with before we call an end?

58:13 Why don't I just give out my website and how to buy my books, and we'll wrap up with that. Absolutely! Well for starters let me say thank you Greg for having me back on the Higher Side Chat. I thought it was a tremendous show. I really appreciate it, and maybe when Cinema Symbolism 2 comes out or something like that well do our third time. I think I'd really like that and maybe you'll have me on? Yeah yeah. Yeah I really appreciate you having me on. I thought it was a great show if you're interested in my books If you listen...if you liked this Please check out me and my books. The easiest way to get them is through my website which is www.robertwsullivaniv.com that's www.robertwsullivan with two l's iv dot com My name is Robert W Sullivan IV from my website you can click on the banner from the home page

59:00 to buy my books, signed copies of both books are available solely through my publisher so if you want the signed paperbacks I'll be getting some emails where do i get the sign copy? Where do I get this on copy? They're sold through my publisher. Go to my website click the banner and you can buy the signed copies alternatively cinema symbolism in Royal Archiveenoc are both in e-book formats there on amazon they're all my publishers webpage their own parts of noble milk during the apple i'd bookstore if you if you like to get a if your interview book and you want the unity reader the books are substantially books are substantially cheaper than the uh... paperback so we have it on the amazon kindle it's on dock

59:38 I'm just going to again www.robertwsullivaniv.com, there's links in my Twitter feed by YouTube channel you can go listen other podcasts i've done Facebook fan pages information about me um... information you know how to buy my books everything there is on my web page again www.robertwsullivaniv.com check it out buy the books become a fan, follow me on Twitter and just go watch some YouTube videos. And again thank you Greg for having me on the Hireside Chat I really appreciate it and thought it was a tremendous show look forward to returning. Yeah man I thought that was great one too so thanks again Rob love the first book looking forward to part two we'll definitely do another show then but until that time comes take care of yourself out there alright man?

1:00:21 Alright, thanks Craig. Alright have a good one. Whoop there it is! I know i'm gonna be looking at some of my favorite movies and movie characters a little differently now in fact they just started watching Blacklist which is probably my new favorite show but I was thinking about it and the main character played by James Spader is one of these Hermes archetypes an anti-hero of sorts but he's got all the answers shares a few...is very cryptic charismatic And Robert is right, these characters are always my favorite. Whether they come in the package of a wise old wizard, a sadistic chocolatier or one of the FBI's most wanted. Damn it Hermes! You get me every time

1:00:57 I think the detailed talk of the Hermes Thoth archetypes come out more in the plus show, but i'm pretty sure it's scattered throughout the whole thing. But in case you were wondering what is on the other side of Hour 2 we talked about not only the significance of Neo's passport and The Matrix but also his birthday and how the Archons relate to the agents from The Matrix literally taking control of the host between movies two and three like a good little parasite should And also the numerical love triangle between The Matrix, George Orwell's 1984 and The Terminator movie. We also talk about the Rosicrucian connection to Alice in Wonderland, the similarities between the rituals of Fight Club and Freemasonry, serial killers personified movies, the Dark Knights representation of tarot cards, the living Tarot archetypes of Black Swan, the virgin birth of Anakin Skywalker, the connection between Qui-Gon Jinn and the spiritual entities known as the Djinn

1:01:46 I think it's a good one. Worthy of the $1 per show that is requested in my digital tip jar of sorts Oh, and we also talked about the symbolism of Beatles album covers And that they seem to hint at the rumors and conspiracy That Paul McCartney died very early on and they replaced him with a look-alike double Just to keep the gravy train running And i don't doubt they would do something like that And the symbolism around it seems kind of obvious And then I thought back to when Michael Jackson outbid Paul McCartney for the rights to The Beatles songs, and at the time i thought wow what a shitty thing to do. What an asshole! To take someone else's work but maybe Michael Jackson knew something we didn't Maybe they aren't even the doppleganger of Paul McCartney songs to have so why should he get them? I don't know...I thought it was worth a mention. I wonder if that is why Paul McCartney was knighted for being a good little puppet and keeping the secrets intact all these years

1:02:38 When was he knighted? Let me see, he was knighted in 1997. Interesting! Way after the dust settled on the whole Beatles thing and it looks like George Harrison actually turned down Knighthood in 2000 and then was dead one year later Wow Who knows guys we could do this all day but unfortunately I have to call this one in What am I doing anyway? I'm just a humble host. I don't have the answers, I just ask the questions But I love you guys, and all those who have taken the plunge for Plus it really is allowing my dream of independence to come true without getting some stupid corporate sponsor or asking you buy products from some unrelated business. I used to think that was the way to do it but honestly why prop up a company off the

1:03:23 backs of my listeners. Why say you can support me by going to stamps dot com? No, just support me with a small $5 how do you do it's really like a tip at a restaurant but I don't get that hourly wage on top of it and my job is not that bad so anyway It is going well the feedback is great the longer shows really are that much better I'm doing the best I can and now this transition has been made and I've dealt with a little bit negativity I faced we're only three months in and I can say they were over-the-hump I don't see a reason for THC to ever change again. I'm so conscious of how things that I love get bigger and then they change, and what I liked about them just isn't there anymore...I get all that believe me! And i've been putting off even buying a new microphone because I don't want the sound or show to change

1:04:06 And I'm crazy, I have a problem. But if i can do this show from now until my 90th birthday just the way it is... ...I would be the happiest guy in the game but I will never forget my humble roots and the soulless world of The 9 to 5 and I'll always be playing apart as a pesky little gnat buzzing around your head reminding you that this is not the dream you were dreaming life can be better and you're not too stuck and there are people out there who feel your pain. Two years ago, I would have kicked myself in the face because I had no idea how this was going to happen but we're here! And we're gonna keep going. And I'm getting all contemplative because this wraps up the third month of this THC Plus thing, and I'm not gonna talk about it forever but three months in, I built this bitch myself and it was very hard at times and enough people have been into it that I couldn't be happier so here's an old Real Big Fish song that used to mean something to me but now, so many years later, I couldn't imagine that it would apply so well But that's it for me this week Your move Sorcerers Of Symbolism In The Hollywood Machine

1:05:08 Your fucking move. I never felt too good in this world, ooh! I was always thinking something wasn't right Then you came along and helped me sing a song It can't stay away You know don't wanna see You know we got it Good thing God's all much about I can live without I've been so frustrated, jaded I'm taking for granted all the things I've got But now that you are here then

1:06:10 It's true, you know I'm going and i don't wanna see it You know I've heard so much about There goes that I can live without a good day Heartbreak, heartbreak I can't live this life without You know we got a thing Don't wanna see it end You know we got a goodie You know we've got a good thing going Don't wanna see it end You know we got a good thing going And don't wanna see it end