Remembering Gordon White w/ Miguel Conner & Chris Knowles

00:00 Hey guys. So this is the exact same audio as the live stream I did with Miguel Connor and Chris Knowles the other night, I'm just including it here because I know YouTube is not a big part of the THC experience for a lot of you guys and I still wanted to share it I think it makes sense to do a Gordon clip show too, that might replace In the Weeds this month or any solo thing for me but it feels like a good tribute. I read the original statement we got from Gordon's partner James somewhere in here but there is an updated announcement that really just says that Gordon's death was quote of natural causes

00:36 And he would mention his heart problem a lot. He checked himself out of the hospital just a few years ago when they recommended a double bypass and he went an alternative route instead, though he did feel as if the heart issue was fixed and did say that to me point blank but it's still my best guess as to what natural causes means even though I feel like Gordon would actually resent that phrasing but... What are you gonna do? So if you already heard this on YouTube, don't worry about it. If you'd rather watch it, It's on my YouTube channel and the Aeon Byte channel under the live tab You know they separate those from the video tab but the link is included here as well Remember that time with your friends is never wasted do it as much as you can because what else is life really about? And may the great white Tasmanian devil rest in power

01:27 Because the hypothetical death, your hypothetical death is all of a sudden less hypothetical. It might actually happen if you die right now at this table Are you dying doing what you want to do, or at the very least in the process of pursuing it? These are things that the Creator has given you with which to co-create in the direction that you want. So this is what good old Carl Gustav Jung had to say... To this day God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my willful path violently and recklessly all things which upset my subjective views, plans and intentions and change the course of my life for better or worse. So anything that got in old Carl's way he considered God. Silencio! Silencio! You're already doing it to me I didn't expect that. Yeah yeah i just found it today

02:29 I don't know what else to say. I tried practicing some sort of intro, the best that came up after doing this was quoting Gandalf and no the journey doesn't end here death is just another path one that we all must take the gray rain curtain of this world rolls back and all turns to silver glass and then you see it But Gandalf wasn't talking about the ones that we leave behind, right? So here we are everybody. Welcome to this fusion of Aon Bight, The Higher Side Chat and The Secret Sun... To honor one of the most beautiful souls that ever walked this planet I would say and it is an honor

03:15 to have misfits, outcasts and magicians join me. And that is Christopher Knowles and Greg Carwood thanks for coming guys yeah thanks for having us thanks for hosting there's really no two people I would rather you know talk it through with i told you guys before we started i'm wearing the glasses because i've seen too many cringe crying sessions on the internet and i was like i'll never do it i made it 15 years Uh, so I need a little bit of a barrier between me and the internet. But you know, regardless like I can't be with you guys in person and you are, you know, the two guys I think I'd most like to spend the time with because You obviously met both of you through Gordon uh, when he would vouch for someone i was like okay let me actually give this person a shot And I love both you guys It's just hard

04:14 know that the rest of my normal, regular life friend group outside of my wife. They cannot conceive of like why the friendship was so important to me because it's basically like everything you aren't this guy was like the things I can't talk to about this guy could talk. So there's nobody else who would get it but you guys got it? Yeah sure do. Sure do. I actually kind of feel We're going to have an Obi-Wan phenomenon. I think that Gordon's presence and his reputation are only going to grow from here on in, I think that a lot of people are going to discover his work who hadn't before. And I also think it's gonna be like you know a clarifying moment like which side of the line are you on? You know are you on that side or no

05:18 the side of the angels. So I think that one thing that i thought and I've been thinking a lot about is that there's probably not very many people walking the face of the earth who are more ready for the next level than our Gordon, I think he had mapped out the territory quite well already and knew it quite well. And I think that a lot of souls have a hard time with the transition, as you've probably heard. And Thumbsouls don't want to cross over there they stick around unfortunately but I think that this is sad for us but i don't feel sad for Gordon because he was a person who knew where he was going knew what he wanted to do

06:21 and lived an extremely colorful and exciting life. I used to call him Gordon White, International Man of Mystery. You know he spent a lot of time down course in South America obviously doing the ayahuasca work and so on...and a lot of other things as well not just that And I just think he just prepared himself. Because, you know when you really think about it... It's like what's the point of all this stuff? You know what's the point of it if it's not to prepare you for that transition? You know? I think that we've lost sight of that and I think a lot of people in the magical occult kind of community quote-unquote have really lost sight of that as well. It becomes almost like very narcissistic and self-centered

07:19 where it should be about getting out of yourself, letting go of all these kind of attachments that really keep you bound to a very small place. And if anybody had tapped into that much larger place its definitely Gordon and I saw it! It's interesting because I saw the evolution over the years. I've known him about... gosh maybe since 15 years or so. Yeah, and I saw the change and when he moved down to Australia he got more into the plant medicine and the shamanism unless you know some of that stuff that i do um... And it changed him! Again, if anybody was ready it was he

08:13 It's sad for us because we've lost a friend and a pathfinder. But I don't feel... knowing him the way I did, it was almost kind of working up to this. It would have been nicer to have him stick around a bit longer is all I'm saying Agreed, yeah or codebreaker. I feel beyond missing him so much as so many people already in the chat arc and beautiful words everybody in the chat I'll try to pull some up but when it comes to fighting the powers of darkness It's like it's like losing Tracy Twyman I think we've never recovered and I think with Gordon not around

09:02 I hate to say it, we're cooked. You know? Because he was such a huge force and again code breaking the simulation if you would And he kind of spoke to me. Tuesday night, the last song that was on my plate in my car was James Taylor's fire and uh... Was it Fire and Rain? Just yesterday morning. You're kidding! Let Me Know That you were gone. I'm like what the hell?! But then I had this horrible nightmare Tuesday night. And I was like frozen for hours like i'd been attacked. In this dream I was in Chile

09:43 You know, and I was like why the hell am i in Chile? And there were these priests taking these children down into a tunnel. But I knew that they weren't it wasn't a PEDO thing It was like these kids were like the bright souls of our universe and they were taking them down the tunnel and I was like my dream No don't take these souls away We need them! And I didn't know who to trust The church, the authorities of Chile And I remember when I woke up, I was like, I don't want to get out of bed. I know when I pick up my phone there's going to be some really bad news and I was full of dread. I didn't want to get my phone. I remember putting my head on my wife's lap like something bad is coming. I was horrified and then yesterday as soon as I opened my phone guys first thing that flashes is a friend saying Gordon White is dead.

10:36 Well, needless to say it was surreal. It was horrible, horrible. Yeah I have a little bit of a synchronicity that was kind of interesting so you know outside of Gordon now the only big loss in my whole life was my dad two years ago the same week you know week after Mother's Day two years ago and You know, my dad had a morbid sense of humor sometimes and he could joke about death similar to Gordon. And when I got the call that my dad had died, I was wearing a shirt...I bought like kind of a cringy shirt but this is content not available because back in the time

11:15 at the time I was worried about like maybe my, I could wake up and just my accounts are closing. And I don't have a job anymore. So you know the content not available trope had this T-shirt and I was wearing it when my dad died. And I always just thought it was like his kind of humor about death Uh, to be wearing that. And I was wearing that...I slept in that shirt woke up and heard that Gordon had died and I was like what the hell? The same exact shirt um..and my work friend you know my number one person where this would apply Um, and that's what so hard to me is like I do keep personal and the job separate. I just interview people why should we get that deep into my personal life? But Gordon was the number one person to have weave back and forth between professional and personal he was at my wedding

12:04 He and my wife would get drunk late into the nights and give me a really hard time about like forcing me to travel places because I just hate the whole travel process. And she loves it, he loves it... One of the last things we were talking about was um.. get me to go to Panama. Um, because I mean the thing, the way that this story starts is we have a peacock in my neighborhood like it's just a weird thing and a male peacock it's wild that runs around and messes with my chicken sometimes. The other day was up on my roof and I took a picture of it and I sent it to Gordon and I was like, is this a sign that you're coming back to Florida soon? You know gay joke. And he wrote back, is that a homophobic remark because I hope so.

12:50 From there, he basically was like but you know we should revisit that Panama conversation before it gets wiped off the face of the earth. And I was like well how much time do we have? He's like oh if it happens it's within a year so we have to get moving and he just had always told me and Teresa that Panama is a great place to go because they have a lot of resorts where people bring kids and the kids have communal hangs. And like, it's different than what we do in the States but it's totally logical and safe and normal. He just thought it would be a great way for us to get a trip in AND take the kids not having to call on a babysitter. I mean he was problem solving for us!

13:28 You know, it's just like there's I know my life has changed because there were a lot of trips including like Peru probably and Panama things. I'm never going to do. I was gonna do them because I had him as the guide and I was gonna go to Peru like fifth And just like so many, my life is just going to be different. My kids as well. My kids would have saw Panama they probably would have traveled through Central America more but like this whole I just feel like this whole vein of life got cut out sad. Well, I just want to weigh in you had mentioned fire and rain Suzanne who's the subject? I actually started a post about this on one of the Frazier blogs she died on this date

14:34 In 1969 on this get out of here. Yeah, he was Suzanne Schnurr she was a friend of James Taylor's and she was actually born on Jack Kirby's birthday which is also kind of synchronistic, right? And today is also the 30th anniversary of the last Cocteau Twins album. Oh wow! And yesterday when we heard the news was Samantha Morton's birthday so there's all sorts of... Get the fuck outta here! ...phraseology syncs surrounding it. I'd always tease Gordon

15:11 you know, because he was so resistant and it was good. You know the great thing about Gordon and I's relationship is that if you knew him, he didn't suffer fools gladly and he didn't put up with any nonsense So if you wanted to impress him, you really had to work very hard And I think that in a lot of ways, I think He really raised my game, you know? Because 100% Yeah, I agree with that 100%. Yeah because He didn't put up with any nonsense. He didn't put up with any half assed kind of attempts you had to really impress him, You had to be at the top of your game to float his boat so to speak and I'm really grateful for it It was good discipline it was kind of like a very stern headmaster

16:13 It was like, you know my magic. He was he was I guess my Dumbledore or something? Yeah. I mean, he got me to think about so many things differently and I'd like to think I absorb a lot of information and it's hard to really I thought it would be hard to come at me with angles. I hadn't considered but he would just do it on so many subjects. It really didn't matter is crazy also, you know, my buddy who loved travel so much and gave me shit about it constantly, died just shortly after Spirit Airlines did. Oh well there's an ignoble connection there right?

16:58 I guess a lot in the audience, we got a lot of people here which fills me with joy. People honoring Gordon and there's already people are putting on their own videos and wonderful blogs like by Peter Gray and everything just so much wonderful content out there but i'm sure a lot of people on the chat are just hearing about this for the first time but uh...I guess the question is we still don't know the cause do we? That is correct. We don't know, as far as I know there's been nothing said except what was in the initial letter to RuneSuit members and it just said he had an accident in Peru An accident? Well maybe it wasn't the word accident we should read it verbatim I suppose Did you want...I don't have it handy so.. I can in just a second

17:49 One thing that I will say about Gordon though, you hear this expression and it seems like a cliche because people misuse it. But I think he truly was an old soul you know? And that's one of the reasons why I think that maybe I'm just like still in shock...I don't know but I don't feel bereft you know because there are these people who come to this world or come back to this world And I usually only hear for a short time, but it's very much the candle that burns half as long. Burns twice as bright kind of deal and maybe it's vice versa with that. I agree he lived many... He did more in half a lifetime than most people do with a full one. Yeah just had a very

18:41 Rich and varied experience on this planet. Yes, an accident is my word but to read exactly what we woke up to or what I woke up too you know is this message from James who sent it to all the rune suit members? And he said I write to share the heartbreaking news that Gordon has passed away. Gordon left this world while traveling in Peru following his life's passion learning and experiencing traditional magic and shamanic practice so he could continue to teach and help others successfully navigate life. Rune Soup, and you the community were Gordon's proudest achievement I know many of you will feel his loss greatly I encourage you to find each other and your family and friends to help process this loss i've set up a room in on uh you know rune soup mighty instance uh so that's kind of been going on that's been one of the central places where people are grieving together

19:35 I just said, I don't know what direction RuneSoup will take right now. My heart is broken and I'm spending time with the rest of Gordon's family to grieve. I will share more when I can so I imagine that the next time I get any information or detail it will come through this exact mechanism of James updating the RuneSoup people I mean, I talked to him two days before this happened. He was super jazzed up and like we were basically talking strategy on if he wanted to ride out the apocalypse in Central America or go back to the farm and he was like if right out the apocalypse turns into QR mask nightmare then no, I do not want to be back at the farm And you know, we're just strategizing in a lighthearted way about

20:23 pretty dark stuff that seems to be part of the cycle, as he would say. And so I'm just like man we were just talking if you really didn't feel well, I feel like you weren't shy about telling me before when hadn't felt well in previous instances. So it's just really super crazy that 48 hours later I get this message that he is gone and i was No indication there was any problem. That's why my mind goes to some accident you're in rural Peru, something might've happened of some kind of whatever shouldn't speculate but your mind tries to find a logic for how could this possibly be true? How do we get from the messages we just shared 48 hours ago to here? One of the things that I should also add though when I talk about that he was a very old soul

21:22 there's a phenomenon that I've always puzzled over and that's how like, a lot of gurus die relatively young. And iIve never really understood it before but I guess maybe now I do start to realize that it's like well your time here is winding down you accomplished your work you did the work that you had to and I think Again, I really do believe...I honestly do believe this that it's a situation where I think his reputation and as esteem will grow. Particularly nowadays when I think that we've had all the nonsense that people were writing about him about COVID and all the rest of it

22:18 You start to realize, and I've noticed this. I started noticing in earnest in 2020 that a lot of people who are into magic or esotericism or the occults whatever they're just children and they have a very childish outlook on life You know, Gordon was an adult. Right? He was the grown up in the room. Whatever room he was in, he was a grownup and I saw this. I remember when he and Diane Pasolka did that talk at the Guggenheim and he had his... He called them as minions all of his RuneSoup members showed up And you could just see just the command that he had, you know, it's just a natural leader and it wasn't like

23:17 you know, popping his chest out and being a dick about it. It's just that people naturally pay attention to this is people who have that natural ability to lead and people just listen to. And I saw it really struck me. It really did because I hadn't seen it. I had no idea who whose members were. I mean, it was all very strange to me because I sort of drop in when he's doing these live streams and I just had no idea what they were talking about. This is going totally over my head, this is not my world but you just saw the... And not only just the command and respect but genuine affection too. That to me it a very rare thing in this world and something that

24:14 Unfortunately, like I said before, you know, like Billy Joel only the good die young. Sometimes it just seems that people who have this very powerful aura just can't sustain it on this plane. You know? I'm thinking of people like Alan Watts and Yogananda and Osho... You know whatever you think about these people Whatever you think they're teachings or whatever But they certainly had an influence and they certainly have an effect on people. And like I said, a lot of these people die young. Yeah but Chris it seems the timing is a little would you say suspicious? People have said it's almost like are the archons clearing the board off with all that's been going on recently whether old people young people you know disturb...I mean it seems or are we just looking at we're searching for patterns what do you think

25:14 Well, like I said. There's this part of me that just... Again he was an old soul and it just seemed...I don't see him as a person... If he knew that he was about to die, that he would be screaming and crying in panic. I think that he is somebody who would deal with it. And again if you're dealing with religion or philosophy what have you

25:53 If it's not to prepare you for that, then what's the point of it? There is no point. And again that's what I think is such an issue with magic and the occult and so on... It doesn't ground you in the world. You know if your belief system doesn't ground you and center you find another belief system! you should be working towards that kind of acceptance and awareness. I guess he would probably describe himself as an animist, right? For sure! When you really get down to it... He described me as a broken shaman. The wounded healer Yeah which is kinda interesting but it was also like

27:00 You know, I don't know if it's with me. It's as much animism as it is panentheism you know so maybe that's just semantics there is no true difference between it but he was the work that he did particularly down in Peru and South America gave him an outlook on not only life, but on mortality. And I don't want to hit this too hard. You know, make more of it than it is. But you just saw it in the work. You saw it in the writing and it was also the fact that he didn't try to fit in with losers and freaks except for us. Yeah. No. Well, you know what? I'm saying? I mean, I'm talking like real people who are like

28:05 You know, people who you know there's so many people that sort of huddle together and become this hive. You know rather than a pack I think that Gordon would be much happier with a pack than are heard, so to speak. Yeah well said On on the notion of it being suspicious timing I mean boy it is wild. I mean, it just seems like there's a like you say more of like a cosmic as we go into this thing like were like work or really? putting a hard stop on who's coming into this phase and who's not. I feel like there is, uh, kind of poetic archetypal thing going on because his language was always like we are preparing this community for the apocalypse and there is something about like okay kids time to leave the nest. Like I go no further down the path. The rest is up to you. Um,

29:09 You know, but it still doesn't seem fair at all because and that probably never is. But he would just be he would have got his vindication I know it. I know you want to get his indication with a few more years to be like the all the cycle models. He talked about the geopolitical situation He talked about it early and he wrote Chaos Protocols so many years ago, but it is the exact advice. And he's writing about AI taking jobs before anyone ever did an AI search years before now it's ubiquitous. And everybody's like, oh shit yeah that's just one of the crazy things that's happening and I'm not prepared for it well The guy wrote the book you know? And he brought in plenty of time to reorient your life

29:57 But people can't think in timescales like that. They think, well is there a gas shortage right now? Because if not right now then I guess it's out of sight out of mind but... It just feels like there is something poetic in the way he was so focused on trying to prepare his community. He's got some of the best classes on just aspects of magic anywhere on the internet, that's a separate thing. On top of that, he had a whole nother layer you know? The layer we vibed on so much...the conspiratorial layer that's getting him so much shit reducing a person down to a COVID denier. That was fucking six years ago and the nuanced position is a lot more than

30:36 COVID denier, you're an adult grow up. But here's the thing Greg I mean he violated he blasphemed against the true religion of those people which is the religion of the state they worship politics they worshiped the state they worship State Authority okay and never let them tell you any different yes and i think i think the fact that with so many people even people who are like in respect sort of that was their They had to preface everything with this nonsense from six years ago, whatever. And it's just like okay hold on a second how would you feel if when you passed people dig up something that you said a million years ago

31:27 And that becomes your epitaph. Yeah, it was very sad to see pussies who just couldn't even just stand by like oh I'm sorry this guy died they had to say i didn't agree with him on everything you know he had some controversial takes its like that is me saying this guy was one of my best friends. Now he was gay, I wasn't gay but he was gay but that does not you know like what did this make? Like it's a weird qualifier of an aspect that has nothing to do with anything." Well no because they're all terrified they're all weak! You have to understand the inherent weakness of these people okay and the fear that they live in. They live under a state of terror because they are weak because they are unwilling

32:14 to assert themselves and to go against the crowd because they understand that the people whom they associate with, their religion is the state. Their religion is politics. Their religion is the CDC and the WHO and Fauci. And those are their gods. Compliance like they can't even be seen grieving for a person who had a different opinion I'm just going to be very blunt here They're weaklings and they're cowards Okay, period. That's it! All right? I mean Gordon was not weak or a coward and they resent that okay? They resent Gordon because he was kind of like a class traitor right? He didn't go along to get along all right? He understood because he was smarter than them

33:07 Right? I mean, Gordon was probably the smartest person I've ever met in my life. Seriously! And his memory scared the shit out of me because... So back... Let's see it was like 2013-2014 around there another great Skype relationship that just got flushed down the toilet when they deleted that whole platform But we would, so he was living in London still. He was I think he's still working and not be working for Marvel all day just being bored and stressed and frustrated. So we'd just constantly just like cracking each other up all day you know? We have these running chats going and who could say like the funniest shit? You know what i mean?

33:58 He would remember things that I said like a year or two before that. I totally forgotten, just like a steel trap memory it was frightening to me and I was kind of at a point at that you know that wasn't not in very good shape. Those are the opioid dark days for me and my memory was like a sieve and he would just remember things that frightened me but when you're that smart And you know, you do have that kind of steel trap memory. You grew up gay in Australia and everything so he kind of toughened him up gave him a bit of a tougher hide than most folks and he was really interested in like you said the patterns the cycles

34:53 I remember when he discovered Martin Armstrong, just talking about Martin Armstrong constantly. Right? And I was like, yeah well okay... If it works for you that's good but the problem is that that's isolating because most people can't see these patterns. Most people can't see how these patterns are going to develop and being old you know i'm gonna be 60 in a few weeks so Thinking about this a lot lately and I'm just thinking about like seeing how things play out like beliefs that I had Attitudes that I had that were based in ignorance, you know that. I didn't see how these things were gonna play out I didn't see how these you know the effect these things we're going to have in the long term and I think Gordon Did you know he had that kind of foresight? You know He's kind of really born at the wrong time because I mean even 50 years ago. It would have been

35:52 you know, a major guru on like the Dick Cavett, you know making appearances on Dick Cavett show or whatever. I mean i can't believe that he just did what he did because it's like he could have done anything! It's like...I don't..i never....I always say this one like why don't you just do the magic stuff on the side and go get a job in the medias doing something on some radio station or whatever? And he was just like you gotta be kidding me Because he knew that world, I mean he worked in public relations and the media and so on. And he saw it from the inside. He saw how just empty and soul-destroying it was but... But he could have if you wanted to, but he followed his own path and that's hard to do

36:43 And a lot of people are afraid of that. A lot of people resent you when you follow your own path, that's something I've really learned as well! So...I think that a lot of the just...they're not even worth talking about but it's just like a lot of these things that people are saying about him and they have to preface this with You know, I don't have cootie. He had cooties. I don't have cootie. He had conspiracy cooties right? And I think there's a lot of envy involved there which is perfectly human but people should learn to resist these types of inclinations you know um...you'll become a prisoner to your fear if you don't confront it

37:36 I think that a lot of people just can't do that. So they do fall in with all the nonsense, but I mean something this...I remember writing like over 10 years ago now and wrote piece on the blog called Safe Space Satanism you know we're like He had like woke Satanism and I was just like, okay. This is really the end this Is the end of the cycle here? This is the this is the lowest you can possibly imagine little did I realize You know a little bit I realized and people who are into the occult or the esoteric or whatever, you know these

38:17 people who should by natural inclination be skeptical of state authority. Yeah. And all the rest of it and look at their history, the books on their shelf could have got them killed in previous centuries you know that was I feel like Gordon single-handedly elevated the magical culture and You know it took it from like a cult conspiracy kind of low vibrational thing that I was into when I was in my mid twenties and starting this show and he was like oh no this is real and there's A lot of techniques and tools The CIA studied it you can

38:54 Learn some of this stuff yourself and improve your life. And it really did become like kind of the biggest conspiracy is the management of our mindset, making us feel small, making us feel like we have no power demoralization yeah. And Gordon really was a big part of Like, it's almost like a friend who tells you you should exercise. He would constantly tell me I should spiritually exercise and I'm like no, you're right. You know? I've never been a bigger believer in it but I still don't do the pushups. Your'e right! I know its gonna help but he made me a believer that it would help if I did the work but it always felt like it was available and you know, like your were saying about his memory so many of our real bonding moments where getting drunk late in the evenings and going off on all kinds of things

39:40 And I would forget just as much as he would say, as much as I would try not to. And it always felt like I could be like, Hey that thing you were talking about in the car when we were going into this thing who was that guy? Like, I felt like I didn't need to retain it all that much because I could just ask again and it's just so much is gone now there's no record of it and there was no one there but He was the only real friend I ever had who I mean, he could take me to fine dining in London And also two weeks in Peru without a shower and a hut in the Amazon. I mean, from every type of experience and also could talk pop culture with the best of them had really great taste

40:22 for pop culture and saw things in movies that I didn't see. These people who are talking shit, it's like one of his big things was to embody Bilbo Baggins to say you don't always get to fight Sauron which is such a great thing for a conspiracy audience to hear he would say on my show because so many people have it in their head that we're going to topple the empire and then everything's going to be great You don't even get to do that. Like you're not important enough to get to even do that and that's a raw truth, I think is just expressed well by him saying, you know what you want to be instead of fighting Sauron? You want to be Bilbo Baggins. Do small actions for good that have outsized impacts that reverberate through starting a food forest and having a compost pile so when your neighbors can't afford food, you've already cultivated abundance to share with them rather than this paranoid it's going to turn into Karmic McCarthy's The Road

41:21 And I'm going to sit on my porch with a shotgun so my family doesn't get raped in the street. You know, he had another like, you know, there's things, things will collapse but there's also this way it could be and you can embody Bilbo Baggins and a little Jack Sparrow and increase your optionality and navigate towards your goals in a flexible manner. But how can you talk shit on a person whose ultimate message is like just do good things that are aligned with good? that have outsized impacts for other people. I mean, what is yours to do? These are the phrases he would say over and over again. What if the way we respond to the crisis is part of the crisis? He was always trying to think of like what is the highest order good and how can we multiply it? And you're going...I've seen people say fuck him! It's like you are so in your own reality tunnel that you don't see that?! This is a Jesus level message of altruistic

42:18 intention for good. You know, even what did Galadriel say? Even the smallest person can change a course of history. He taught that all of us can make a difference and have a role regardless where we are, what our platform is or how much money. We all could be part of something better and it was just like you said do the next right thing in your neighborhood in your garden in your magical practices how you treat your family all that and the whole universe is magical and we can all tap into it It's just a question of how to You know one thing that Gordon really taught me as well Is that

43:07 I just, I don't know anything about magic. It's like my vision of what I call magic is really like mysticism you know? More miracles and signs and wonders...I just don't have the brain for it. It's a totally different head than what i do I'm you know, I always use the surfing metaphor and Gordon was like building like an arc. So and I just I didn't have that sensibility. I didn't have that kind of brain. Well, that's what Gordon always said magic was magic is the felt sense that our role in the cosmos is co-creative so that can go a lot of ways. Mm hmm. Well for me,

44:06 I would, like I said, watch some of these live streams and sit in on some of these discussions. And it just was like listening to somebody speak a foreign language backwards or something. It wasn't the way my brain works and there's nothing wrong with that! You know unfortunately though because when we first started talking and everything and bouncing emails back-and-forth all the time You know, he was doing the Archeology series on Rune Soup at the time. And we were both really on that same wavelength I guess you would say and I guess I sort of stayed on the wavelength and moved onto other wavelengths, I guess you would say but yeah, man that's fine too. I don't think that everybody needs to conform to other people's expectations

45:09 And the one thing that I always said is that, you know if you're gonna do it. You've got to do it like him because there are no half measures with those kind of magic or shamanism whatever you choose to call it and people who don't commit themselves fully who don't do the work who don't smash down their ego a bit are going to get destroyed by it And I think, look at the difference between somebody like Gordon and somebody like David Wilcock. It's a shocking contrast, I think. Actually, Wilcock was a few years older but you know looking at somebody who just trying to escape into these metaphysical pipe dreams

46:11 And whatever you can say about Gordon, whether or not you agree with the magic of the shamanism and animism. Whatever I mean, you could just totally dismiss it but you can't say that he wasn't completely committed and he didn't do the hard work authentic and authentic like he was authentic. He wasn't saying something just to get attention. And that's why I think like I said before, I mean, that's why I think that he will have that Obi Wan kind of effect. You know? Sometimes, the artist has to leave the stage for people to absorb the message. And history is full of these kind of things. Gurus, artists, actors, musicians... People who left us prematurely or just left us before we were ready to let them go

47:10 But they had a larger part to play. And it's going to be very interesting to observe if without his presence, you know physical presence with the presence of the thinking and the work and have the mind will have a much greater lifespan. I mean personally, I believe it will but still too soon to tell right now, I think We won't get his third book. That's, that's for sure. You know I was thinking about that because I saw someone write that in the chat and i know obviously he really wanted to complete his dot trilogy but what is three dots? And ellipses and what is an unfinished series it's kind of right there yeah

48:03 Yeah, I think also somebody had an interesting point from Peter Gray and he messaged me. This is from his blog, Peter Gray, and he messaged me excited about triggering a prophecy in the Santa Muerte temple and Gordon's last sub stack was Post was an image of the Reaper. It was like a magical pothole open, yeah? You know I wasn't gonna say anything about that but that like our literal last message was him telling me about that and I've even gone so far as to take the breadcrumbs that he gave me, find the temple get the temples phone number and address. No one there speaks English get their address. I'm going to write a letter. I'm going to translate it to their local dialect which i also found and I'm gonna write assuming that this is the right temple or at least the temples are networked you know? I would ask like

48:57 Can you tell me anything more about where this was going or the level of involvement? But yeah, that's a true thing. I didn't know that was out there but now that it is out there here at least I can say absolutely. So crazy because he was like this is a spirit that is basically the same as like the dallas day. The more tape but but a male spirit that has depicted as a skeleton in a hood kind of like the grim reaper so it's probably what you posted about and seen the sub stack post but

49:35 Just, you know when I said he was happy and he was doing his thing this is what i'm talking about. I'm just like what's up? And he's like oh I just uh triggered a prophecy about this day of the dead spirit and i'm gonna pursue that little bit it's like oh all right well um You know i'm trying to get my kids off to school but i'm glad things are going well for you man we'll talk about the Panama trip I guess Um, but I agree about what you were saying. Like he just always went for the joke we had such a amazing DM stream. I mean man we could have burned each other's reputations tenfold if we wanted to it is uh To me that is how I've always kind of measured my friends as

50:18 Do you have the balls? Do you have the balls to, I'm not offended. But do you have the balls to see if I am and uh, can we go for the joke and can we take that risk because you know, to me that's male camaraderie is like that it's a bit of shit talking and then some risks risk taking and friends I had my whole life. I never thought would like go Go woke, I guess. Or go weak." You know? Just like they...I can't even talk to them the same way. Gordon came around at a time where I needed a transition to hitch my terrible sense of humor onto and like we just have had the best time with that and I said to my wife like from now on I just laugh 30% less but i'll be on my phone less if there's a silver lining he would appreciate that joke

51:11 You'd probably say, anything I can do for you. Yeah! I think I see a super chat. Yes. Okay from Anon Olmos as I know him question for Greg and Christopher what is the best thing we can do or bring into this world in memory of Gordon White? Hmm... I'll be right back i gotta check on my daughter okay I think once you take that one, Greg. Sure. I think what he would want is just for more people to experience the real legacy which is what he built at RuneSoup it's like if you... It's hard to know what's behind the paywall but my God as someone who interviews people for a living in this kind of space

52:02 I have seen so many shitty GeoCities websites and so many outdated, you know, um, conspiracy people in particular are not super tech savvy. But what he created like the niche that it's for does not deserve tech this good. It doesn't deserve structure this good. And it's like an academic course on the most obscure things. Like one is fairies, psi and UFOs. And I think I've I've always said all I am is a conspiracy talent scout. I know who, I think makes the best arguments for interesting shit and I interview them and I help them present their perspective." He had that too because he would fold in supplemental material to all of his courses like here's an interview with this magic leader who I find valuable. And then you go through just the supplemental material that's curated by someone who has such great taste

52:55 Even that is a gift in a crowded internet. But I just think the depth of his academic level courses on subjects that have no business getting that treatment is, is really his legacy. And from, from tarot and obscure grimoires I mean he's got five hour classes on single grim wars the history the person who wrote it everybody has ever looked at what it does updating it for modern times. He was a super powerhouse. I think that he would want

53:32 I think what he would want the most is to know that people who were members of RuneSoup and embodied the template he laid out are the ones who do the best on the other side of the apocalypse. I think that would make his spirit most proud, and you know i think Given all the advice that he has given compared to really other advice, which is almost like there's not going to be a problem. Like people are pretty they're talking about disclosure files instead of uh, huge coming crisis that Gordon would warn about but whatever he thinks we're in the fourth turning as you just said in our last interview Chris and I mean, That's something that doesn't

54:14 Like it might come faster or slower, but it's coming. And so I think he would want his legacy to be that I prepared my soldiers is too aggressive of a term, but he's prepared his minions best for navigating this chaotic terrible time. I think he just wants to be able to be like told you so look at my numbers versus any other magic community or community out there Agreed. Brett asks, what is your favorite memory of Gordon? Do you want to take that one first? You take if you can't take it first if something comes to mind Take it well I guess I don't know if its a specific memory but one thing I will say though Is that he was a great resource so I had a very strange year in 2016 and a lot of a lot of bad things happened and a lot

55:18 for lack of a better term, paranormal bad things happened. Just lot of bad things it was a very difficult year and there was a lot of you know death and so on in my circles since everything and he was not even sure how to put it He was a sounding board, but he also you know was not offering a shoulder to cry on. He's like well what is this teaching? Yeah! You know where it going like what it is this isn't happening. You're not having all these weird craziness happen

55:59 falling on your head for no reason. There is a purpose to this, and at the time that's not something I wanted to hear. I just wanted it to stop. I wanted just the bad craziness to stop." And he was like, well, what was the lesson here? And I think that...I don't want to call it tough love but you know, I'm not a shoulder for you to cry on You're an adult, you're a man. What are you gonna do? How are you gonna deal with this?" 100% agree! I remember when my first kid was born... When my daughter was born and this is another thing me and Gordon would talk about it's the medical side of things, alternative medicine and everything so when we went to a birth center it didn't go well we ended up in the hospital anyway at an EMF soup

56:58 do vaccine. The whole mess I tried to avoid, we ended up there anyway and you know, I was kind of venting to him and like being like it just sucks too felt like we did everything right through pregnancy every alternative piece of advice every piece of discipline was there and yet we still end up in the hospital is kinda demoralizing he was like some people come in with crash landings And, you know, I just didn't think yet about my daughter being a spirit who has her own story and autonomy and like a little bit of direction. And then you just think about this as my baby, but no it's a soul who incarnated. The humor thing is one thing and taking the risk to say something that would offend other people but he would also do that in your sensitive moments. He would kind of be like...

57:50 You know, I'm going to say the tough thing or at least try to get you to look at it as a learning opportunity. Or whatever when all other friends just say oh i'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry to hear that so we don't mean anything right? It's like are we boys are we friends like if we're friends let's go deeper than that let's go deeper than what the chick at the a So few people that ever come through your life like that. The last time I talked to him was before Christmas or the last week, before the new year and we had just a catch up hour two-hour chat and we were talking about this and that and ended up talking about shadow work

58:45 And we were, I was kind of like does this shit ever end because I keep finding more shadow and more trauma more with decrease like no he said he went to a shaman. It's just part of being a human. And I was frustrated, look! I've done everything the spirits have wanted me to do...the gods and I'm frustrated." He said that is how the spirits work at the end of the day we're just humans, we are meat sacks We are often just vessels for higher gains and powers and we just got accept our role They'll use us and abuse us Welcome to the material world

59:26 And I was like, shit. You're right very we're back to the Greeks and the Egyptians and the Gnostics. I love raw speech and just so few people have both depth and the ability to speak plainly in a raw way without dancing around things. It's just like that...I'm someone who really thrives on having a voice like that around And it is tough, but in terms of memories one of my favorite memories like the first. So I mentioned the synchronicity with the content not available shirt as how I learned about him dying

1:00:02 When I first met him in person, the thing that probably set our friendship off the way it did from him just being another guest on the show. It popped up occasionally versus a real friend my wife and i were on a trip in europe and we were in amsterdam when we rented a car we're gonna drive a car down to barcelona or something i can't remember the exact road but We found out that even though we could afford to take the trip, the way we're going to if you drop off. The rental car in a different country, even though we think of Europe is like so connected it was like a $2,000 fee and we were so poor. We could not handle a $2,000 expense. We didn't plan on. So we had it halfway through I think we were barely into France. We turned around and we drove that sucker back

1:00:46 And then we were like, well fuck what can we do with our remaining five days of this vacation? Cause we wanted to see a little bit more of Europe. And I was like, well you know there's this guy we get along pretty well he works for time out in London if we could, we could hop on a plane and go over there and he'd be good person to hang out with And she was like, okay, fine. And we go and we meet him at his timeout office and he's like let's go drinking with some of these guys who work here at the office so we went to the plow which is a it sounds like a gay bar but it's actually just a bar that Aleister Crowley used to go to. So, you know, he knows the history of London and he knows where to take a guy like me that is like, Hey here's an added element it's not just a bar part of the Crowley books. Neither one of us were huge Crowley fan but you work with what you're around what you got

1:01:36 Uh, we had just such an amazing time. And then we hung out a couple more days he took, we wanted to go to Stonehenge and he was like, no don't go to Stonehenge let me take you to Ave Barry it's a much better stone circle magical place. And he took me in my wife there and You know, she was just so shocked. She was like this guy's awesome I thought he was gonna be like some old guy because she sees me usually interviewing these old guys it turned into you know they becoming really good friends and you know He came to our wedding. He came all the way to San Diego. He met my childhood friends from Missouri i mean i put up that picture of us playing beer pong obviously

1:02:12 I love that. I got the smartest guy, I know the biggest intellectual I know to play Midwest big beer pong with two simpletons that I grew up with a, I love it but it's really sad that my wife doesn't get any more exposure to his brilliant mind because you know she made my weird stuff more palatable and it was just, you know, it is a loss for both of us for sure she's really broken up about it too but He was great, but I'd say one of my favorite memories and like our whole friendship wouldn't have probably taken off. Like it did if there wasn't a $2,000 fee for dropping off an enterprise rental car in Spain, I had to pivot. We couldn't just spend who wants to spend 10 days in Amsterdam Tuesday enough? You want to see some other European cities that we pivoted to. That's like something out of a movie, you know?

1:03:05 Right. And yeah, and that just set it all off coming to the wedding and you know he also pushed me to do live shows I would never have done live shows i've done two live shows with him we did one in Austin and one in Tampa when he pushed for the Austin one I'm like neither one of us live in Austin so you want me to go into Austin not knowing where we're gonna do this or what we're gonna do until people he's like yeah it'll come together And it did, we got a free venue because of the contact he had who had another contact who had a coffee shop that they opened up after hours. It's just things happen. And he made me, I'm a, I'm a preparer if you've ever seen anything, I do it like I have five pages of notes because I don't want to have even a moment where I don't know what to say or forget to say something so alive show to me is the daunting situation but he definitely got me to go with the flow and just trust that things will work out and You know that filters into so many different areas but the best memory, the best story has to be that it started with a weird

1:04:06 a weird, unexpected wrench in our travel plans. Well the thing I want people to realize too is that um...I don't want to present him as being this like self-important sort of pedantic figure uh he was a blast to hang out with yeah he's friggin hilarious you know true bon vivant just a lot of fun wicked sense of humor and could be you know catty and bitchy as they get

1:04:43 And it was just fun, you know? It's just enjoyable. And he didn't talk down to you and he didn't preach to you. If it came time to sort of cut the crap and like you said put your big boy pants on that would be one thing but 99% of the time we were having a blast knocking jokes back-and-forth and talking trash All the rest of it, you know? Um. And anyone listening who wants to get a sense of that I just... You know for the sake of nostalgia he hadn't really been on Twitter in awhile He stopped kind of posting there like his own stuff but he would retweet funny things he saw If you go to Gordon's Twitter and you just scroll through the last

1:05:35 30, 40 posts. It's hilarious shit that we definitely would have sent each other it's about it's high level stuff and also lowbrow he just was so great at like finding uh the comedy and like little nuances of human interaction and things that embarrass people and just really funny and the whole thread is just really It was great to see today. I think if people who wanted to get a sense of what it's like to have a private DM back and forth, it's like a lot of it is right there on the Twitter. Oh we got a big super chat here! Yeah yeah the classic Gordon welcome were you a weird kid from

1:06:20 Joculus000, it's been a while since I've heard Gordon ask the question on his podcast and i can hear his voice asking it. Thanks for setting this up and sharing tales there's no group of familiar voices that I'd rather hear share stories thank you very much yes that was as That was one of his many taglines. Obviously he, he was moving away from podcasts to more vlogging because you know, he said after he got tired over the last election with Theo Vaughn and Joe, right? You know the whole podcasting thing went crazy and he's like I'm going to, I'm going to start moving somewhere else. And that was fine so yeah it wasn't really that many interviews. Yeah. The reason I do solo stuff now is his advice like I lost a friend mentor like

1:07:07 He had the best ideas for what I should do sometimes and, um, ways. I could change things. I resisted video two years after he was like, you need to go to video. You need to just do it. Um, you're already there. You're already recording through a video platform. Just do it. Yeah. I mean, he was right. But I don't know if I had something, I forgot what it was Well this seems to be the super chat sorry i just wanted to say that because it was he would always say were you a weird kid and. The nuance the layer there is that he told me any set on the show sometimes but he meant,

1:07:47 What a W Y R D weird as an almost like faded, you expect him to mean the low brow weird than the colloquial weird that everybody would expect. But what he really meant is do you kind of feel faded? To do what you do because your interview and people who have unique careers and leaving their mark in the world in unique ways. And, you know, he He rarely did he get someone to pick up on that level of the question. Usually they just went with what would be expected, but he always told me that was kind of a nuance there and The thing is, I don't know anyone who would have embodied a weird life in the sense that he...the higher level sense that he meant it than him. Was he a weird kid? Did he faded to...? He obviously did a lot of groundwork to develop the knowledge base and then developed the perfect way to encapsulate and share that knowledge base

1:08:41 Yeah, I think he was pretty fated to walk his path. Yeah and thanks for this super chat 100th monkey project appreciate the support yeah thanks for any support and what you're doing also did we talk about Peter Carroll's death that was his last video right well because he was really a hero and role model to Gordon. At least when we first started talking everything, he was always talking about Peter Carroll and he's always... You know how when you get all excited about something and you sort of project it onto everything? He is telling me, oh, Our Gods Were Spandex is chaos magic book. Okay! Yeah yeah yeah And I guess

1:09:39 Objectively, sacred mysticism is considered a form of chaos magic. I don't know if I consider that myself but it's an interesting time so I guess Peter Carroll passed away on the 20th of April? Is that correct or do I have the date right? Pretty close. So is you know, it was a little less than a month which is also very interesting to me We're all part of this lattice work, right? If we don't even if we don't recognize it or we don't acknowledge it. But we are connected to other people and other things because Gordon really took up that cudgel that Peter Carroll left you know Greg had mentioned the chaos protocols

1:10:35 Which is a book, if you haven't read it I recommend that everybody read that book. Great book yeah! Yeah but... That to me is and that's..I don't wanna make light of it but it does seem.... I think we'll look back in a few years and see this all as being just very natural. I don't want to say inevitable but just the course of life And again If anybody was ready to make the crossover, you know it was definitely Gordon. He'd been preparing his whole life and I think that accelerated too and i think we shouldn't overlook the heart scare that he had yeah about five years ago and I was really concerned because um he just kind of dropped out for a few months

1:11:40 I wasn't having my emails or my private messages, whatever returned. I don't know if you guys went through the same thing? Maybe not a little bit. Yeah, it did shake him up and I think the doctors wanted to give him a double bypass and everything he was a smoker Miguel, stop smoking. He quit! I haven't quit but he quit. Yeah you know i told you that when I really sit down and think about it I've lost a lot of friends and one of the friends I lost to

1:12:25 throat cancer and he had taken up smoking like when he was 40. And I was like, and he was a super fit guy, you know, super healthy but he was a bartender and he said that he'd bored and needed something to do with his hands and all this kind of thing. Unfortunately it took his life unfortunately And I was thinking, you know, doing this work on Dave McGowan. I did a biography live stream on him last week and Sunday I'm doing the first of two parts on Laurel Canyon and there's always been a lot of conspiracy theories about him which his family actually deny because he was a heavy smoker for 40 years

1:13:22 in construction and he had apparently a lot of exposure to asbestos and so on. Oh dear! Yeah, so I mean we are these... As you call them these meat sacks are fragile and need to be taken care off And Gordon always struggled with his weight and so on So again, I just feel sad for us You know? I feel sad for James and for his family and for his community But I think he's doing fine, to be honest with you. I really do and my in-house astrology here Noah had said something to that effect and again i don't want to sound like I am making light of it but I have this very powerful gut feeling that he's fine... He made the leap successfully

1:14:30 You know, maybe he'll come visit us from time to time. That would be really nice but I don't think that...I don't think he was ever attached this place. No And it was always looking for that deeper connection those subtler realms and if anybody was able to explore the territory again it was him Yes. Another chat here, back to weird from Opakaloopsh historia, forgive me for the butchering Weird in Old English means fate slash destiny but has connotations of the past cognate with erd norm of the past thus fate is contextual to what was woven my video covers Shakespeare altering the word oh interesting

1:15:29 Oh, well I want to just address that. So the first time I had done his show, I was in poor condition let's just say it was not a good time in my life but he didn't ask me if I was weird kid and then we ended up doing this two hour recording you know because I was very weird kid and I had a very weird upbringing and all the rest of it So we recorded and he was about to run it. I just said to him, don't do that! Don't put that up because some of the things that i was talking about...I didn't want to go public and nobody knows who I am why they're going to care? Why are they gonna listen this two-hour horror story? And I did end up putting it on Patreon but

1:16:33 That was an intense experience in some ways. And I really do appreciate that he was willing to let it go, even though as I said he was just about to put it up and I'm just like please don't. But again that was 2016 and that was the year from hell for me and all of the rest but there you go. Somebody had said his death reminded him of Chris Cornell's death. And, of course, everybody who knows my work knows what a turning point that was for me. I don't know if I feel that. I mean, I feel that Chris Cornell was a tormented soul and personally again anytime somebody dies you're going to have people just coming out of the woodwork and spreading these theories and so on and so forth

1:17:37 But actually my theory with Course Cornell is that it might have been AEA gone wrong, if you know what I'm saying. Might have been an accidental situation because he had been taken the out of an AEA autoerotic asphyxiation. Like the guy from NXS? NXS and David Carradine. Right. Lotta people have taken the wrong way out doing that, unfortunately. You left while coming in? I mean... He's somebody who had dealt with very severe depression for a very long time but like i said, I just don't feel that way. I feel like whether or not we're willing to accept it right now he accomplished what he set out to accomplish

1:18:39 Had this marvelous globe trotting life, scuba diving and traveling the jungles of Peru and living all over the world. And so on I mean he lived more in those 44 years than any number of people do put together right? So it is sad that we you know that he will no longer be with us but i don't feel like Like, I don't feel like a sense of tragedy that he was robbed somehow because his life was spent in pursuit of the spiritual realm. And I keep saying this but if anybody was qualified to cross over it was he so...

1:19:42 I mean, I think we all see death as a transition. I think all three of us and everyone who's here has a way more nuanced view of consciousness and the life-death cycle than your average person doesn't make it a whole lot easier in the moment but i know what you're saying like uh...I don't feel bad for him necessarily like but yeah it is obviously hard Even when you have a more nuanced view and you maybe ponder death and what it is, more so than people who are kind of just living in denial and fear of it even though it eats them up inside sometimes. We all know those people too

1:20:28 Yeah, it I don't think he was fearful like you said. But I just, I don't even know what happened. I really, I mean isn't it the when I die guys say exactly what the fuck happened because I swear everyone I know who dies like there's always a followup but what happened and it. I'm sure we will find out, you know? You gotta understand me when things like this happen to family and loved ones and so on It's a lot of work. There's a lot of work to be done that is a little more important than informing the Internet what's my dying wish guys so it is make sure it's in there well just don't say you have information on the arrest of Hillary Clinton and we'll know yeah seed something for me I mean, we got to get it to go viral

1:21:22 There is, let's see here's one Mark Ward Hendricks. It will not surprise me to find out in time that the temple event had great ramifications possibly for all of us? Is there a chance that he might have been up to something that he was keeping secret? I mean there's always a chance i mean i won't even say the things me and my wife have been speculating about she knows him enough to be like you know what just whatever but I don't want to ever contribute to like rumors and speculation, especially about a good friend. But even though I know this good friend would probably not mind rumors and speculation, but for respect for the other people who might not who might be hit a little harder in his inner circle, maybe can't take the off-the-handle stuff I really wouldn't mind going into.

1:22:15 We'll wait, we'll wait for sure. But I really hope there's something more it's like he could have ate a poisonous plant. He could have fell off a cliff. He could've had a heart event so many things you know? You could eat bad chicken in a rural area and someone asked me if it was ayahuasca and I know he would probably want me to say that You know, he did. He did a journey a couple of weeks ago but I think there was good distance between him and Mother Ayahuasca and I don't think he would want that on her name so that's speculation let's shut that down right now uh but he did tell me he was smoking a lot more weed we actually before me and you booked our show Chris uh me and Gordon were gonna book one

1:22:59 You know, we just he was like, oh I was going to ask you to do my show too. And I was like okay and then we just kind of got it all got jumbled up and then we would forget and he's like We can't both be stoners Gregory. And uh He said that to me several times because our coordination falling apart So i know he was doing a little more than that which is bittersweet Because we would hang out so much and I'd have to drink to his level and he wouldn't partake in MY hobby Nahhh I would be the one throwing up in the toilet in the morning Well, you know what are you gonna do? You're gonna do life is a Hundredth monkey project. He was what 46 or he was going to turn for you 27 Of course, he's always 27 years well, he was he was actually officially a millennial but yet a genic soul Yeah, yeah, well and he was uh

1:24:03 He was a Cancer, or Cancerian as am I. We both had Sagittarius in our ascendant—I have no idea what any of that means! I wondered about his birth chart? If Austin does attribute of some kind it would have to include astrology and maybe there's something in this chart that suggests an exit at this point. Or Noah always finds good… Good stuff, right Chris? Yes. Yeah Noah is my Austin Copic and I much prefer... I think i've seen Noah on your channel right yeah well we were gonna do a um we were actually supposed to do another Star Watch tonight we're going to do on Philip K Dick he charted out Philip K Dicks birth chart and so on we're going to get into that but

1:24:58 you know, obviously this came up. So we'll be doing that next week. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah so somebody said he was British...he sounded British but he was Australian. You know his accent always sounded much more British than Australian today yeah but i don't know if that was conscious on his part? No! I love Australians but that accent doesn't It's reminiscent to me of the Boston accent where it's very hard to sound authoritative when you're speaking in a boss an accent Which is why I? Worked very hard to lose mine when I came down here. Yeah, when you get excited Chris it does come out Well, and it also comes out if I'm talking to people who have the accent right

1:25:54 As a matter of fact, I went to get my hair cut today and the woman who cut my hair was from Rhode Island. And I heard it right away and I just fell into it but the British accent yeah I always thought that was really kind of strange and actually I remember pointing that out one time I was just like your accent sounds much more British and he was very defensive about there you go but he was from the same town he grew up born and raised in the same town as Bob Goodwin, who was one of the executive producers of The X-Files. And at one point he was always asking me when he's doing the interview like who should I get for guest? Who should I get for guest and actually one time recommended

1:26:42 him, but I also recommend. I believe I also recommended the guy who wrote Trickster in the Paranormal. Oh great George P Hanson? Yeah and that didn't go well he was very annoyed with that guy because... Hanson's a weird guy yeah but he was also kind of a dick yeah and he also is very coy He made me do our interview He made me start at like 1 AM my time and it was no flexibility. I'm like, okay, you know, I got a one in a three year old. I want to do this interview. I guess I will be on from one to three and I'll be whisper talking into my microphone hoping that don't wake somebody up but odd guy, but I could definitely see recommending that I could see him being frustrated with it. Hmm. And I did recommend, I think I was the one who recommended he interviewed Tracy

1:27:35 Did he ever do that? I believe he did. Oh, I'd have to go back and see that. Uh...I was just on the old RuneSoup website before we started and i was a bit disoriented because he changed the interface and it's kind of hard to define things um..i do believe he did Tracy Umm....I recommended some kinda wacky ones too. Just trying to remember who I recommended that he do I think i even like recommended laura eisenhower. Oh Have you heard of her show? No, but i've almost fired off an email uh when I was not being my most creative perhaps Uh that probably That's like having um michael salla on as somebody now that one I have done oh you have done michael speaking of australians right yeah You know it's funny. Um

1:28:34 You know, I also just interviewed Michael Cremo and he just...I mean God bless him. He's a great person. I've learned so much from him but he was looking super old in our interview way up on the camera. Just everything didn't flatter him very much and it was just funny that Gordon made a little joke about that And then I'd sent him like the John Brandenburg thing where John Brandenburg, cause I learned about John Brandenburg from Gordon. Oh, he was super into that for a while and Brandon Berg was worried that he might be one of the next scientists to get bumped off and I sent it to Gordon and he was like you're just chasing ambulances aren't you? You're just chasing ambulances. Then he made the same joke. You know, I will share one obviously inappropriate joke and

1:29:21 You know, the thing about good jokers is like there's some people who are mean spirited. I can't joke with those people. I've learned that some of the people I grew up with were just mean spirited. Gordon is not a mean spirited guy who just can appreciate going for the humor and you know, I was talking to him when I found out about David Wilcock and I was like Dude, David Wilcock just shot himself in front of police that were called to his house for a wellness check And his response was and here ya are chasing Michael Krimos hearse Oh my God. But this is all like context for, this is all happening while me and Gordon are trying to book a show and find out when we're going to do our next one. And then like I know Gordon would be like you were wrong again. You know? You missed me. You missed the last one with me. It's like it's like yes, I did. We had a good time when we did the year end show Miguel even if

1:30:24 Caught a lot of heat. Took a lot of, took a lot of heat from the peanut gallery. Oh yeah oh my god yeah I got roasted. I'm sure you did. The blowback was... Yeah well who is who? I just keep saying who's right because Gordon and i were both like first quarter 2026 is going to be a mess It's gonna be... What did I say? If you're into chaos magic, this is going to be your time. Because it's gonna be nothing but chaos and turned out to be true! And just have to keep reminding people of that. Yeah. You know, I've been on the internet for 33 years or whatever. I'm kind of used to all the nonsense by now but uh..I just wanted to

1:31:23 remind people that Gordon and I, Gordon and I called it. And when Gordon was much more, much more of a pessimist than I was on what I do have to say? I don't know. I mean he it depends on what part of the timeline you're looking at Because he was hopeful that on the other side it would all be gravy. Like we used to talk about a solar punk world where everyone has a UFO in the driveway and a garden in their front lawn, and you thought you would get to that reality or just take a very long time to get there You know, another thing just I want to throw this out there in terms of like what would Gordon want? You know something. I took away from him and his chaos magic Thane is in one of his books. I do recall him saying you can make your own calendar of Saints like you don't have to get anyone's permission to do that and me the simple mind that idea. I'm like okay well, I love Carlin. I love Bill Hicks like let me get a calendar and put their death days on there and then

1:32:28 You know, if I have time to meditate on those days. I'll reflect on them. I'll try to channel them and channel what I liked about them into my being and this is Gordon stuff And he was really good at getting me to get over the silliness feeling of it like A lot of magic people are just held back by feeling silly. A lot of these grimoires, they say you have to say the words out loud. I'm not saying the words out loud. I lived in a small apartment and someone's going to hear me and my wife is going to hear me so that they I'm nuts. I'm not saying the words out loud this does hold people back but he was really great at like getting me and accepting me into like feeling comfortable with it but this is all to say that I don't know his

1:33:13 exact death day even really. It's always complicated when it's the other side of the world and there is delayed notice, but I have his birthday on my phone but i think that something that im going to do as i'm gonna take that template that he exposed me too that i thought was actually quite wise you don't need anyone's permission to honor someone that you value that passed and who cares if they are a saint or not in the church so He's definitely one of my patron saints. It's very Roman, you know? The Romans would have their household gods in their little altars create their own little pantheons Yeah I mean i got one up here it is mostly

1:34:00 People, pictures of people in my family that have died. It's got the St Cyprian statue that I got from Gordon. He did it so I did it and I don't really know why. I mean, I know he is a patron saint of magic and magicians but like...I don't know the man to the depth that I should have him up on my altar but Gordon did it so I did it. Right behind me one of my patrons had done this really beautiful painting of Elizabeth as as the Pythia. I don't know if you can see it, but it's the reflection yeah um so there you go uh that's another funny thing so Gordon was... we were still he hadn't moved to Australia yet and Q was still on Skype all day when I started getting back on the Siren stuff

1:34:56 And he wasn't having it. He really made me work. Yeah, yeah. Finally I think I broke through but actually I know I broke through at least that's what he said but he really made me really made me work for it which I'm grateful for to be honest with you because so much of the work that I did was trying to impress him try trying to get past the gatekeeper there, get past Cerberus.

1:35:38 Well, Gordon always loved the quote from Terrence McKenna that if it's real and can handle the pressure meaning like whatever the claim is. Whatever the weird bizarre fringe counterculture conspiracy idea is if its real we should be able to challenge it in every way and it should remain standing so he sometimes was a hard sell and I think that is what we vibed on a lot of things why he likes doing my shows I just think I kind of have the energy of like, well make your case. Like I'm going to help sometimes stuff is very complicated. I've already read the book but the goal is like making the best case for an idea that you might not have entertained when this popped up in your feed as podcasting has changed it's gotten away from that but originally when we formed our bond that was very much strongly the energy and

1:36:32 That sticks out to me because I agree with that line and it makes sense that he would make you work for it because he thought, well, if we should be able to work for it. It's rigor right? Yeah. Rigor. And I guess the thing that my biggest takeaway from my relationship with Gordon is was rigor. Yes. That's something I even really thought about in relation to the work and it's something that, you know, I talked quite a bit about in The Synchromistic Handbook and it was because

1:37:10 not only like of the work that he did, where he was so rigorous in approaching it. And when he got into something, he really got into you mentioned John Brandenburg and I mentioned Martin Armstrong and I know he was really into surname The Solari Report woman and Catherine Austin Fitz. Yes. And he was really into Joseph P. Farrow. He would go through these obsessions, you know? And no plan just dig in Get as much out of it as you can and then he'd be on to the next thing a month later But he did it for real, you know, it wasn't like He wasn't like being blighty or fickle It's just that he would get into something like Joseph P. Parrell or Catherine Austin Fitz any of these people Brandenburg and get everything out of it that he could in absorb it and assimilate it and incorporate it into his own work

1:38:17 And then he was on to the next thing. It was really, it was true scholarship I think. See we have a super chat from Joy Burning. Gordon always talked about allowing breaking to break you open. He broke me open and I refused to go back. He would be honored that your holding this place for his people ask what's mine to do? Good one, I liked it. What's mine to do? Obviously, he would say contribute to the field. Whatever your true purpose is find a way to marry that to positivity in the greater field. That's that you know? Mr Pee Wee Rules mentioned that Dr Stephen Heller also passed Yeah I did a show honoring him last week So... That was another one Three luminaries i guess you would say From different fields yeah

1:39:26 And of course, also on the flip side of that you know we did have David will clock who else who else's somebody else home thinking of who. Carol well also now of course everybody's freaking out about the scientists. So, well I saw somebody getting lumped in. I saw something the other day that was like total tallying up the original cast of ancient aliens and it was trying to make it conspiratorial but I mean this show has been on for how many years these guys were already old but I believe if you were... You're probably thinking someone from there I think Von Donaghan went out recently

1:40:05 I think someone else from the original cast. That was a while ago, that was a few months ago at least. Von Donaghan? Well maybe it was! Well uh... The one that-that i really took note of was Philip Coppins Oh yeah Because he wasn't like Will Cork or the others He was a real researcher. Yes, and he was not Oh Nick Pope someone said it in the chat. I think he should qualify he was a good one. He definitely qualifies. I think wow yeah you do notice that you tend to notice that a lot of people involved in weirdness or esoterica and so on tend to tend

1:40:57 you know, be terribly long lived. I guess you would say. Well, Vondonic was like 90s and Nick Pope was younger than me. Of course Wilcox was rather young. Stephen Heller was what he was. He was an old dude. Yeah. And Carol was in his at least in the 70s but older. Maybe just make note of them if you know but I just did a thing When I did the Wilcox thing, you know and actually Greg and I talked about that all the UFO researchers. And that's very strange like how does that work? You know, we have a lot of UFO researchers who have untimely deaths die young and Gordon. I remember talking about that with Gordon and Gordon had said like it's because they're

1:41:57 basically dipping into the ultra-terrestrial realm. That was his take on it, you know? He didn't think it was the government or the men in black or whomever he thought is because You're getting into a very dark liminal space, particularly with this lot of work that some UFO researchers do if it's more of an occult ufology and There's that great line in the Mothman Prophecies movie, you notice them and they noticed that you notice them. That's a movie I cannot recommend highly enough. I think about that movie all the time and the terrifying thing is of course, the director's wife died suddenly after he had finished making that film. And if you've seen the film, Richard Gere's his character, his wife dies early on in the film

1:42:56 I believe it's Mark Pennington who also directed the Jeremy video by Pearl Jam. And the kid who played Jeremy died a few years...I had blogged about that, he had died a few years back drowned in Puerto Rico so it's just this weird sort of latticework but I don't know if Gordon and I actually discussed the whole thing with Jennifer Pennington? I'd actually have friends mutual friends with him And my friend had said that after his wife died, he was like a broken man. He was just completely shattered by it and that's you know that's a real tragedy but the eerie thing is that closely I remember Lauren Coleman when he had his Mothman death count

1:43:49 webpage and so on. He was all about that, but that's what Gordon said because we had talked about that quite a bit and he did say it's because you're sticking your nose into realms that you don't belong in. And when I basically personally live streamed my UFO encounter in 2017 to Gordon alone I had my little iPad and I'm like, oh now it's doing this. And that came at a very unsettling time as well and when I truly realized that the whole ufology thing when it is not all just nonsense or disinformation but there is darkness there. There is spiritual darkness to that field

1:44:44 And again, that's what Gordon had said had been responsible for a lot of these people. So I don't know. Yeah well he was looking into Santa Muerte we shall see who knows but all of us we can't. Somebody talks about Thomas Merton and I've had two dreams with Thomas Merton and i'm not exactly sure why the last dream I had and I didn't post about it on Twitter but um I had to dream that he had built Cathedral, you know those big trees that you see in Africa. They have these huge trunks that are like 20 feet wide or something? I had a dream that Thomas Merton built a cathedral out of one of those trees and I've no idea why I was dreaming about it this morning! And he had also said that he was the reincarnation of Saint Francis of Assisi so don't ask me what that dream is about.

1:45:45 Awesome. Well, gentlemen unless anybody has anything else shall we wrap it up? We should this is cathartic for me you know I just this is serious serious loss and It will be tough but um you know I appreciate that he you know our friendships are because of him and I really feel like when it comes to previous guests or colleagues in the space it was like Gordon Pretty big gap. You two giant gap, everyone else like uh and I love that we got to spend time at the astrognosis event you know that was super cathartic to me and it just was fitting because Gordon got me too

1:46:33 We basically bridged our friendships and then we had a, you know, physical hang. And it really inspired me to be like that's what I want to do is like somehow facilitate a physical place for all the digital people to be able to gather because it is just so different and yeah, I'm really sorry you didn't make it to the Cancun astrognosis Yeah, I mean that's the thing. It was out of the States and I'm paranoid about like not getting back Uh...I like my cage you know? I'm like a dog who is afraid to get beaten if he leaves his cage So yeah, I can relate man! I hate traveling I hate going anywhere to be honest with you.

1:47:28 in my retirement years, buy an old church and make it the higher side church or the higher side cafe. And host events in person. The highest side cathedral. Oh man. I'll trademark it now. There you go! You're going to be a little more ambitious than that sir You know, like franchise. How about that? I don't know how he's like a three-year-old sounds like you're mean it really going for it. But you know Gordon the spirit of doing things in the real world. I mean, he really embodied that and brought me out of my shell to do live events and is essentially how I ended up at astrognosis even though he wasn't out that one

1:48:16 I guess it's just you guys for me now. Well, he was always pressuring me to do a Patreon. Yeah yeah and he was right! He had a great job so and it was like a full-time job when it got busy it was like two full time jobs so I just wasn't able to put it together until Marvel just completely shit the bed Which they have. I've been telling people that for years, it just didn't become obvious until recently when they fired their entire staff. Oh but there you go! There you go, awesome well thank you gentlemen i don't know how to feel but these times you just have to feel something and

1:49:10 Let it take its process. Well, like I said, I feel happy. Hmm. I honestly and genuinely feel like he's in a good space right now. I really mean that. I mean, I am I'm a person who was convinced maybe in ways that I wish I hadn't been but convinced of the immortality of the soul is there's no question to my mind of the afterlife and the persistence of whatever our essence is, okay? And I've you know like said i've had a lot of close people around myself and my family die too young and it really felt hollow and terrible but I just feel like whatever happened however he went out. He was born ready for it and uh he's probably having

1:50:19 Quite an interesting chat with the spirits. Maybe he's hanging out with Saint Cyprian or I don't know, but...I just have a very strong sense that he is in a good place and it's just my gut feeling. Maybe i'll feel differently in a week or so? I don't know maybe I'm just still in shock but again that man was doing the work that was really about taking the next step in my opinion Well said. Cheers, I agree! Just feel it's all a process. Yes well... I love you guys and thank you for doing this with me and I hope people who came in showed up or listen to it later also feel that it's some kind of half closure even though there was just so many questions about the whole thing

1:51:19 Somebody mentioned McKenna. I mean, how old was he when he passed away? He was young in his 40's too right and Bill Hicks was too well and sometimes that's the way it works And that's why I really do believe that Gordon will have that lasting legacy Yes, sure is work Yeah, but I mean the quality of the work speaks for itself But it just feels to me maybe people who might have been resistant to the things that he was talking about will be more receptive now. So... I'll see, but yeah we still miss him and we still love him very much regardless of where he is Indeed We must continue his work and what he stood for so

1:52:08 Well, for everybody really appreciate people showing up. I hope you enjoy it on the replay and this is just the beginning again lots of great videos and blogs and other things on the internet and we shall continue i would say go and subscribe to his rune soup for updates and will do our best but in the meantime really appreciate everybody being here Chris and Greg thank you very much for what you do and uh... We shall continue What else can we do? Excellent. Take care, everybody.