Laird Scranton | Comparative Cosmology, Gobekli Tepe, & The Spirit World

00:01 Happy July everybody! You know I hate to waste your time with a news update, but this is something that I gotta tell you up front all this month to make sure everyone hears it. And that is on the 4th anniversary of the Plus system, the start of August 2018 we are raising the cost of admission by a little bit to $8 a month I wrote at length about the whys and what's in the hows in the THC newsletter, which we're going to call The Higher Side Herald from now on. And I'm gonna be much more consistent with it now that its got a proper name But read that on Facebook or Twitter if you really want to get into details but here is what you need to know If your current PLUS member You don't have to do anything if you wanna stay onboard the commercial free and action packed 2 hour ride we got going on here but the price will be going up in August

00:50 If you've prepaid for 6 or 12 months in advance, that time is covered. You're already in! But the next time the system needs to charge you... whatever level your at it will charge you at that new rate It's a change I've been torturing myself over for awhile and the plus members who have given me some responses have all been really understanding And I can sigh the sweet sigh of relief But I'm sure we'll lose some people too and i'm prepared for that. But please make sure you click on my account from the plus menu bar and cancel before August 1st if ya must! The rest of you first hour only folks have a little more time to get in on the ground floor as they say, but even at $8 I think we're still an alright deal when you consider what else is out there. I hate to do it but even Amazon Prime has raised the price on me twice in the last few years and I think they have a lot more members than me and I'm not asking for a key to your front door

01:43 We're still gonna have 5 top-notch monthly treks into this weird and conspiratorial world with the best guests in the business, but I'm also going to sweeten the pot with a monthly video session of good times and open lines where i will sit by the phone for you dear people. And we're gonna call them... Joint Sessions! Clever right? So that's the news in THC land, I know say it ain't so. But as the guy who actually depends on this thing we got going here nobody is more anxious and nervous about a big change than i am! Thanks for all the support and for not biting my head off too much now let's do the damn thing

02:38 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan. There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man, until we've thoroughly tested every last closed chested view and find the more you think you know unless you really do. Where would we be without THC? We know they're lying to us just don't know what degree where would we be without THC How's it going, Higher Side Chatters? Once again the offering on the THC table is another attempt to unravel the secrets of the ancient past understand the ways of indigenous peoples and decode the mysteries of a long-standing and widespread esoteric tradition.

03:39 Because as far as I'm concerned, humanity will never feel complete without a better understanding of where we've been and how we got here. Yet the academic establishment is suspiciously content to uphold a thoroughly contradicted and outdated model of human history AND our environment And whether they're fulfilling their roles as nefarious gatekeepers blinded by nationalism or just victims of their own stubborn egos doesn't matter much to me when important truths are left unknown And if it wasn't for the brave and persistent independent researchers willing to bust up the pre-approved paradigm and rework the research from the ground up, we would be even more lost. And if that wasn't enough, we also find that many tribes around the world as well as lost civilizations of the past were burned so often by outside forces and armchair understandings that even they developed a system of secret keeping isolation and preservation structuring their own history and cosmologies into a mystery school hierarchy of learning that requires time and attention that only the most dedicated can undertake.

04:38 But the clues are in the structures, the stars, the symbols and languages of peoples both past and present. And it takes one helluva codebreaker to follow the breadcrumbs. Fortunately for us dear people of the internet one helluva code breaker is exactly who we have with us today Back in the saddle for a second show is the great Laird Scranton, an independent software engineer who turned his attention to researching comparative cosmology and ancient language. And has since synchronized many aspects of ancient African, Egyptian, Vedic, Chinese, Scottish, and Polynesian traditions in a long-running book series that has become one of my favorites out there!

05:14 Last time we talked largely about the Dogon tribe of Africa and his book The Velikovsky Heresies, and today we'll be poring over the big picture largely through the lens of his latest book Decoding Maori Cosmology – The Ancient Origins Of New Zealand's Indigenous Culture. Peeling back the esoteric onion to life, restoring the lost knowledge of the ages, and cracking the big code, Laird my man welcome back to the higher side! Hey Greg, thank you very much. That's really high praise now I gotta figure out what you must really mean by that. I'm sure we'll get into it but it is always a treat to talk to you. I'm a big fan and its hard to keep up with your rapid fire releases and as I understand this book about the Maori tribe is the seventh in a series looking at various cultures that can all be folded in to have some real synergistic roots

06:05 cosmologies and symbols and languages. And I guess to kick this off, maybe you can give us a bit of an overview of the cultures that you've studied that you see this sort of connective tissue between before we bring in the Polynesian tribe? Well, great. That's actually a help because as things turn out I see the Maori who are our later tradition that is connecting to this same set of cultures pretty much every culture I've written about every era and every region. I can see connections to New Zealand so discussing the background will help us put that all into context right? My approach to things which started with an African tribe but there's also the historical approach to things This is a tradition that I believe began

06:45 around 10,000 BC. We see the first evidence of it in the Fertile Crescent region, southeastern Turkey at a location called Göbekli Tepe which is a mountaintop sanctuary with standing stone circles. In my view as I compare things my work is called comparative cosmology and what that means is that I try to learn more about words and myths and symbols by comparing how different cultures understood the same elements And so my comparisons have moved geographically from West Africa to Egypt, to India, to Tibet and China. Then to ancient Turkey then jump over to the UK Northern Scotland and then on from Northern Scotland to the Maori in New Zealand

07:34 Those big leaps are harder to justify, but that's part of what the books are about is trying to lay a basis for understanding how those connections were made. So the tradition for me begins in the Fertile Crescent region. This is the area where we see the first evidence of cultivated seeds, of metalworking, animal husbandry, domesticated animals, stone working and number of other critical skills of culture all appear in the same region, in the same short period of time. Now from the perspective of some of the other traditions that I work with this looks like an instructed tradition it looks like one way to explain how all these skills appear on the same place at the same moment is that we had some help

08:22 That's what the Dogon in Africa say. That's what the Buddhists flatly say, and we have high degree of comparability between the Dogon and the Buddhist traditions so I tend to go with what they agree on." So for me this begins in Turkey and then the tradition passes down towards the south and towards the southeast from Turkey from the progressive region into Palestine also into India And that passes down through a group called the Shakti cult, which was a matriarchal cult. That's so old nobody knows how old it actually was many of the dogon philosophies of creation line right up with shakti cult traditions this is pre other religious traditions in india pre vedic pre hinduism pre buddhism

09:14 All rest on the same set of philosophies that came out of that region. So then it passes down through India and into Egypt at around 4000 BC in Elephantine in the south, I also see some direct connections to ancient Egypt around 10000 BC from the Fertile Crescent region. The way to understand that is if you subscribe to my friend Robert Boval's suggestion that the three large pyramids at Giza reflect the Orion belt stars, which would have been set in the sky above it in the era of 10,000 BC The only way that could be true is if the alignments had been made at 10,000 BC. Otherwise we have to figure out how is it that some later culture had all the skills and equipment necessary to retrospectively calculate what the alignment should've been hundreds of thousands of years earlier?

10:07 So it looks like there's a direct connection to the tradition from Fertile Crescent, Ancient Egypt at 10,000 BC to set those alignments. The Sphinx also looks at the constellation of Leo in that same era, 10000 BC So we either have to conclude that those structures began to be constructed, or at least the alignments lay down in the era of 10,000 BC. So now then sometime after 6,000 BC, we see connections to the Fertile Crescent from Northern Scotland. There are sites that look for all the world like an instructional site on Orkney Island north of Scotland with a megalithic tradition that was the starting point for all

10:48 stonehenge-like structures we see in the UK. And DNA testing confirms that we have maybe half a dozen different elements on Orkney Island that tie back to the same region, same era of the Fertile Crest around 6000 BC They can't track it across Europe, so it looks like something made a jump by sea from Fertile Crescent region to Orkney Island. We even have a burial tradition that is a match for what the Shakti cult does in India or did in India. All of this becomes background for the Maury cosmology Another way we can trace it is through language. Even the Dogon African tribe language, they're very careful about retaining original forms and so their language is unclassifiable because it's made up of subsets of other languages that they keep very strictly distinct and some of those words are Tamil words and some of those words are Turkish words And you can almost track The path of transmission for the tradition based on those subsets of languages for the Dogan

11:51 And the Maori are very similar. If I had just started with a Maori dictionary and nothing else, I could have made connections to all these same eras just based on how the words are formulated. Wow! That is a great overview and it seems quite complex of course but If we're going to talk about the Maori a little bit more, what could you tell people about their culture? Their ways for the ones who are maybe completely unfamiliar. What stuck out to you? Well most of the traditions that I've written about are from the 3000 BC era. That's at the point where written language appears and so it's easy to frame interpretations when you have a written text that tells you what the culture itself thought about something

12:39 you get much earlier than that, it's harder. The Maori are a much later tradition they're understood to have arrived in New Zealand around 1100 AD which is thousands of years later so anybody who's ever played the game of telephone understands that things change over time and you can imagine how over thousands of years any tradition might have morphed a little bit we also have As a structural part of this cosmology. creation tradition I'm talking about and there are reversals in symbolism that happen midway through the tradition across many different cultures. And you know, cultures that were not thought to have had any contact with each other suddenly patriarchy takes over matriarchy at about the same moment those kinds of reversals suddenly you have figures

13:32 like squares and circles that represented the concepts of the non-material and the material suddenly reverse themselves for no explainable reason. You have all sorts of other symbolism that switches itself in the archaic tradition when a person died, part of the burial tradition was to open the top of the head ostensibly to allow the soul to ascend Anybody who studied yoga knows that enlightened energy that rises up to a person's, the chakras of a person's body ultimately is said to emerge from the top of their head. This is the same kind of concept. Well sometime after 3000 BC that flips and instead of opening the top of the head so let the soul ascend in Egypt they wrapped the body like a mummy and open the mouth to allow the soul to be reborn this is a reversal in symbolism we see other places

14:25 You have goddesses like Sati in India whose symbolism and the myths that go with her, actions she performs things are said about her are often things that are said about Osiris in Egypt who is a god. Same thing with the Maori in New Zealand is that you have names of gods, tied to goddesses in prior eras and other cultures. You have actions of those gods that tied to the actions of goddesses in prior eras. You even have a certain amount of confusion internally within the myths of New Zealand themselves. You have a mythical character who's represented as being male

15:01 But then there's an ancient myth that says he was offered as a bride to some other god. So you have carryover of symbolism that implies that the earlier tradition saw these as female, not male Yeah, it's so interesting and it's funny that you brought this up already because this is one of the paragraphs I had copied down. And just to reiterate you say at around 3100 BC monarchies founded on functional systems of agriculture began to appear in various regions of the globe these included the emergence of dynastic kingships in Egypt, the appearance of the earliest emperors of China and likely kingship in Ireland and Peru as well At about the same time

15:44 Distinct revisions or reversals occurred in the form of ancient cosmological symbols. Archaic matriarchal religious traditions came to be surplanted by patriarchal traditions, just as you said. Greater gods such as Ra and Amen in Egypt and Shiva in India came to take precedence over long-revered mother goddesses. These changes crossed cultural boundaries and so seem to reflect the action of some regionally capable or perhaps even globally capable influence. Now, I might be prone to grand conspiratorial thinking but if i didn't know better I'd say it sounded like you were painting the picture of something that sounds like a global governmental or spiritual coup

16:26 Well it might be simpler than that. There's another way to look at it, there is a metaphor I use that tries to put in context for modern person to think about the example I use as imagine that you are on across country flight on an airplane and start in New York City and land in Los Angeles now chances are when you get on that flights you may not know more than one or two other people on the flight you may not talk anybody else on the flight But by the time you arrive at your destination, everybody on the flight knows to change their watch. Now this isn't because somebody ran around and handed them all a memo that said remember to change your watch when you get to the West Coast it's because everybody understands that that's the way time zones work and when you change time zones you have to change your watch

17:17 And the same concept applies to this cosmology, that there's a mindset that involves eras. The same way the Yuga cycle involves distinct eras anybody who is instructed in this tradition would understand how these eras work and as you move forward in them there are certain requirements symbolism while in the yuga cycle tradition You have a change in humanity's ability to perceive the non-material But for me what's really happening under the covers and it's complicated as a whole book to try to explain how and why this works there is a physical change in materiality happening with our universe. In the mindset of samkhya which is ancient philosophy that this all rests on universes form in pairs

18:07 And there's a cycle of energy that scrolls between those universes. One universe is less material, the other one is more material and the energy that scrolls between the universes is a lot like... Think about it as sand in an hourglass you start out with all the sand on top of the hourglass by the time your done all the sand is at the bottom of the hourglass Well, that's the way it works with non-materiality and materiality. And these symbols have pertinence for what is material and what is non-material. The non-material is considered to be feminine so in the early eras when our universe was ostensibly less material we associated with the feminine which is matriarchy where there are less materials in the universe but as time goes on and energy shifts and we become progressively more and more and more material

18:57 Then, halfway through the cycle when you have equal amounts of sand in the top and the bottom of the hourglass from that point on it's the lower globe of the hourglass that is more material globe. Now all the symbolism formerly applied to non-material has to apply to material. So a lot of the symbolism works out way in changes because there's a cycle that's changing Fair enough well i like that analogy because that was gonna be kind of my next comment if it wasn't some physical takeover and reversal of long-standing understandings then maybe you is like a thought form that spread across the surface or we moved into some kind of new energy that caused ideas to switch which is kind of on the same page as what she just said right but

19:46 In a lot of cases there's that fairly simple answer that still falls in the context of these traditions and my point of view has been that the biggest threat to my own research and my own interpretations is, the propensity of the human mind to see patterns whether there is one or not. And so to protect myself against my own wishfulness I I make the rule that unless one of the cultures I'm studying states a thing, I can't use it as an interpretation. I can't say hey this looks like someone was putting together a Model T Ford simply because there are parts that look like that to me if a culture says yes by the way we were putting together a Model T Ford now i have something to work with well this is the way the Dogan creation tradition works their priests flatly say that their symbols describe how matter forms

20:37 And my job as a researcher then becomes one of verifying the reasonableness of what they're saying. I can take a look at their symbols and ask myself, is there any way by any stretch of the imagination that this set of symbols could represent how matter forms? As it turns out there is not only by a stretch of the imagination with no stretch at all just by simple comparison you can see that what the Dogon are talking about is the same thing that Stephen Hawking talks about in A Brief History Of Time or that Brian Greene talks about in some of his books, Popularizers Of Science. In many cases you could substitute the Dogon description for Stephen Hawkings' description and Stephen Hawkings book and he wouldn't change the meaning of this chapter. But his understanding

21:25 was that we were in just a material universe and that if you can't see it, isn't real essentially I would think. So it seems like he's leaving out a big other side of the coin. Yes and unfortunately there are physicists who feel that that's true generally in astrophysics One of the books I've read relies on a theory of physics called the Ether Physics Model Yeah And the gentleman who developed that The reason he went about developing it was precisely because he wasn't happy with the answers he was getting from professors about basic questions. He was asking things like, so if dimension is what allows us to measure things like length or height and width, then dimensions themselves can be measured? Where do the dimensions exist? Where did the dimensions come from? And you would get sort of a half-baked answer as to what that is. I mean, time is a constant or light is a constant in the universe

22:22 Where did that come from? The implication is there's something outside of the universe where these things arise and we're seeing the effect of those things but not seeing the thing itself. So certain astrophysicists reach a point where they are looking for answers to fall outside of the domain of what we can actually see again another example I give is if you were a student driver learning how to drive a car everybody who has learned how to drive has gone through this If nobody told you that the mirrors in the car hide a blind spot, when I first started to drive. I thought well anything i can see in my mirrors is what's going on around my car? I didn't realize that there's a big enough blind spot to hide a tractor trailer truck of its position right. You have to turn your head to see it! Well science is the same way when you compare what the scientific view is compared to the archaic view

23:16 All these things that are esoteric fall in a blind spot for science. We can even demonstrate that that blind spot exists, there's a certain class of particle of matter whose symmetry requires that for it to look the same we have to turn it around twice. Now imagine any object imagine a coffee cup say if you turn the coffee cup all the way around once you put it back in the orientation it was in originally and looks the same as it did originally Well, there are particles here where that doesn't work. You can't turn it around just once you have to turn it around twice and that is theoretically a pointer to what I refer to as a blind spot, a domain that we don't see now even the scientists are saying hey there's so much dark matter out there it's more pervasive than regular matter but we can't see it There are these indicators that there are things going on that we don't readily see and that's what the esoteric traditions all about talking about those things that we can't see

24:13 And that's something I love to explore is esoteric versus esoteric traditions because you often find that behind the curtain, behind closed doors there is a totally different understanding than what they would have the masses believe. This is an historical thing it isn't necessarily that conspiratorial or Related to just our time period that's true but the clearest picture that i've gotten about the kind of is a terror or archaic cosmology from your work it's probably when you talk about. the esoteric buddhist traditions because i guess they say something like our universe is a set of parallel dimensions maybe a set out of eight or seven kind of structured like a helix can you go into that little bit. Yeah the mindset is that universes form in pairs not material and material and that ours is the fourth of seven pairs of universes now whether thats

25:11 An absolute number or whether that's the local structure that they want to talk about isn't clear. There potentially could be more than seven total, but they're presenting things as if there are only seven pairs of universes that function in pretty much the same way and they say there is a cycle of energy between the universes that is as essential to life in the universe as the natural water cycle is on Earth. The natural water cycle is, the cycle by which water evaporates from bodies of water forms clouds arise up over the mountains create rain that then flows back for the sea if we didn't have that cycle of water there wouldn't be any life on a planet. The Dogon say that life is less force

25:54 then it is a movement of forces. And the water cycle is a good example for what they mean. They say that there's a movement of energy between the non-material and material universe that serves that same function on the universal level, that we wouldn't have life without this fluctuating cycle. The dynamic was something called a dipole. There are magnetic dipoles, there could be gravitational dipoles, there are electrical dipoles... These Centers of positive and negative energy that tend to oscillate they come together and they move apart they come together in the move apart it's how i'm at networks is the force that's behind a magnet now. In the book before them or a book one that I released last october called seeking the primordial. What was working on that but it seemed me that fundamental processes by which the universe is formed,

26:47 We're looking like they were completely understandable more and more understandable i was puzzled by that i thought every religious tradition i've ever heard of says that the fundamental processes of the universe are unknowable so how could I be arriving at a point where these traditions made it look like they were completely normal. Then I stumbled on what you were talking about a little bit earlier between the public and private versions of these traditions. There are things that are represented in slightly different way, the way the priests explain it is they fib about certain things, they tell little lies. An easy example for the Dogon is they say publicly that they celebrate their greatest holiday—the celebration of the stars of Sirius every 60 years but

27:35 The anthropologists say that in fact what happens is after 50 years have passed, the Dogon priests find a reason to make an exception this time and celebrate it after 50 years not after 60. And what they're disguising is the orbital period of the two stars. This cycle is based on the orbital period of those stars And so they tell this little fib and there aren't very many of their tribes people who live long enough that have to live to see two fifty year cycles before they realize or get a sense that the priest relying to them another one of those little tips i come out of the represented in public and private buddhist tradition is.

28:15 Publicly, they say that the processes of creation are fundamentally unknowable. These are things that are so complicated and beyond human conception that you would never be able to get to the bottom of it." you go to esoteric Buddhism, the private Buddhism and they say well yes that's one of those things we lied about. In fact there are a handful of dynamics here that are really perfectly knowable and the same set of dynamics play out in parallel on all upward scales even when you understand how the dynamics work even things like quantum weirdness what looks like the very weird behavior matter where do you go from wave to particle? Even that completely

28:57 evaporates. It's not a concern anymore, you can understand why things work that way even such things as entanglement of particles that they can use crystals and lasers to induce two or more electrons to become entangled with each other and when they do that then it doesn't matter how far distant they move those electrons from each other if they change the quantum property one of the electrons there's an opposite effect with the other electron. No matter how far distance they are, it's instantaneous as if the two were one particle and not two separate particles. And even those kinds of weird effects evaporate when you look at things in a way that ancient traditions looked at them

29:42 Oh yeah, and I even think it goes a good way into explaining a lot of the weirder paranormal type stuff that we talk about on shows like this. Yeah i think so too! It opens the door to having scientific quality understanding why those things happen. I say that first thing person in my line of work learns is there are things going on that we can't explain yet But that's really all that's happening is these are things we can't explain yet, not that they are so woo-woo or so far outside the field of science that there isn't an explanation. Now let me ask you a weird question because I got thinking about the universe as this helix of pairs of dimensions and we talk all the time about the idea of a spirit world dimension that sort of paired and overlaid with this physical dimension and they occasionally bleed into each other well

30:35 I'm curious what else is out there. Is there any historical or written description, or anything that alludes to connecting up or down the helix rather than just within the pairings? No, i don't have any mention of anything like that in any other traditions I study but what I do have direct representation of the possibility of being able to move from the non-dimensional side, the less material side, to the more material side. And it's not subtle references it's right out there in your face references if you think of I don't know if you're familiar with a yuga cycle yeah okay The Yuga Cycle is around 25 thousand years cycle depending on what source you consult

31:22 And so if you divide into two 12,000 year cycles you have what's called a descending cycle on one side. Think of a big circle, a descending side like a wheel turning, a bicycle wheel one side moves down while the other side of the wheel moves up that's happening with this cycle also now the side that's descending is becoming more massive and the side that's ascending is becoming less massive and Einstein says that when you increase the mass of something, you slow down its time frame. That's how light is able to maintain a constant speed because speed is just the distance you travel by the time it takes you to travel it. Okay? Mass and acceleration are equivalent so if you're driving in a car alongside a train and you accelerate, you would expect to catch up with the train

32:17 You can't do that with light. No matter how fast you go, light always is moving the same speed ahead of you and the only way that can be true is if time frame slows down as you speed up. So not only do we have mass shifting between these two universes, but also a change in time frame. In the less material universe, time is quickening and on the material universe, time is slowing down You hear about astronomers using their telescopes to look way out into galaxies that form shortly after the Big Bang. And they take their measurements, and they do their calculations and say hey it looks as if the speed at which the universe is expanding is speeding up! The rate of expansion is speeding up. They can't figure out how could that be? How can the rate of expansion be speeding up? If you had one explosive event

33:10 The worst that should happen is it should slow down, not speed up. Well what they're seeing isn't the universe speeding up, they're seeing the effect of their own time frame slowing down And so what looked like it was at one speed earlier now looks like it's at a different rate. So the essential difference between these two universes really rests with their time frame, and if you think of time frame as being water pressure or any kind of pressure – If you go into a space capsule in outer space there is an extreme difference in pressure between inside the capsule and outside And the only way you can move from inside to outside is with an airlock. And the airlock lets you step into a space where you equalize pressure with the outside, and now you can safely step out into it not be exploded out into it. Time frame works the same way. The essential difference that is being represented between these two universes is difference in time frame. When that difference becomes too great, the material side can't see the non-material side

34:14 Same way that we're told the fish can't see us when they look out of an aquarium, that they're in. We can see the end but they can't see out there's the same effect going on That's what the Nogan masks are about is conveying the concept that someone can see us but we can't see them Trippy and you know you mentioned coming together and moving apart, I guess this is exactly what you're talking about. I hadn't really considered it in the framework of time or that time is the mechanism in which we get out of whack with our paired dimension but that's really fascinating Simple timeframe may also be the basis of gravity differences in time frame

34:53 You know that if you go take a buoyant object to the bottom of the swimming pool and let go, it's going to float to the area at least water pressure. Similarly things flowed to the area slowest time frame so the more massive body have the slower its time frame is, and the difference in time frame causes orbits. It causes them to turn because one side of the object is moving slightly slower than the other side of the object is and so it turns they can measure differences in timeframe between your feet and your head when you stand on floor. And so my perspective is that gravity is very much like water pressure only you're dealing with timeframe not with pressure

35:37 Wow. And you know, this just is not somewhere I plan to go and I know your expertise is not necessarily in like anti-gravitic crafts or electro gravitic craft but there's been plenty of real people who seem to have discovered this kind of stuff like Thomas Townshend Brown and potentially elements of the Nazi party but I guess, I would wonder how this would come into play with that type of craft. Sometimes people lump in time with those things or time travel with those types of experiences but it's very related. It is! Now if you imagine that the essential difference is timeframe during this yuga cycle as one side descending and other sides ascending If you think about a great year

36:27 which is how it's described in the traditions in India, the point at which those time frames equalize is the equinox of the year. Now this is why so many important holidays fall at the equinox. The Buddhists say that this esoteric tradition was an instructed tradition that was given to them by a non-human source the Dogon go farther, they say not only was it non-human. It was also originally non material right? Well if you imagine these time frames shifting then it reaches a point at the center when you have as much sand on both sides of the hourglass where the pressure on both sides is the same. The time frame is the same and at that point becomes theoretically possible to move from one to the other like you can move out of an airlock into outer space or out of an airlock into a submarine hmm To support that idea

37:22 The Egyptian word for equinox was Keper. Keper was the name of the dung beetle who represented the concept of non-existence coming into existence in Judaism one of the holidays at the equinox is Yom Kippur or Yom Kipper At the other equinox in Judaism they celebrate a holiday called Passover now a traditional Passover seder ends with the opening of a door to allow an imagined non-material somebody named Eliyahu to enter. So they're physically acting out the thing I'm saying that the ancient traditions say happens. Yeah, that is so fascinating! And if we try and put ourselves in this cycle...of course a lot people are talking about 12000 years ago, younger Dryas, mini Ice Age era

38:16 Where are we? How do we orient ourselves in the Yuga cycle, are we on the ramp up?" Well that traditional view is that were about 1200 years Up the ascending side. That we passed the lowest point and That were now on the way back up but many many different references that I've been coming across Many different effects have been happening recently imply to me that we are just now past the lowest point of the cycle. And that means 12,000 years ago we would have been just past the high point of the cycle. Interesting!

38:55 Well, it definitely seems like we're at some kind of pivotal point. Maybe that's just the nature of existence that you always think yourself important but it seems like whether you want to call it novelty like Terrence McKenna might have or just the spectrum of change and heightened emotions... It seems like this is a period where something energetic is going on Yes, and from a cosmology point of view, ancient cosmology point of view we're in the midst of major energetic reversals. We're at the point where there are two reversals that happen in this dynamic of the dipole There's one where the energies come together and then start to move apart And then another one where the energies are parted and start to move together Now, in the descriptions that are given in India

39:46 They talk about two circumstances that happen with energy. They actually explain it in terms of consciousness, one is where consciousness becomes aware of itself that's where the two energies are one thing and they suddenly start to become 2. The other circumstance is when 1 energy is attracted to another energy one consciousness attracted to another consciousness and that's the other extreme of the dipole where the two separated energies are coming back together again. And that oscillation goes on and on, back-and-forth without any indication how many times it might have happened I have friends who are more spiritually connected than i am a more connected non materiality then i am who say that besides at simple dynamic of energy coming together moving apart

40:34 these universes actually progress over time. It's not that all seven pairs of universe exist at once, just as certain traditions talk about the beginning of a new age that these pairs of universes work the same way and that the reversal of energy is facilitating the movement to the next stage of this Wow man so you blowing my mind but if our pair is one realm of say perfect knowledge and the inability to act and one of imperfect knowledge and the full ability to act as a part you express that i feel like thats just really succinct way to say it.

41:11 When these cultures say they got their knowledge from a non-human or non material source, this is probably what they mean. And that brings me back to Gobekli Tepe because in this latest book you write that the Egyptians had a name for the region where Gobekli Tepe is and it could be translated as Het Pet Kaya or Temple of Space Embracing Light and you suggest that it was a sanctuary used to facilitate the instruction of material beings by capable knowledgeable non-material beings. Can you elaborate on that and how this might have been facilitated there? Yes, and the motivation for doing that is really where the rationale is based on that motivation. If you understand the motivation it's easier to understand what happened in this cycle of time frame quickening on one universe an slowing down in another universe

42:02 Ultimately it reaches a point in the non-material universe, or less material universe where time frame is moving so quickly. So ultra quickly that there's no coherent moment in which to take an action and so all events essentially happen at once And that's the concept of having perfect knowledge of everything but no moment of time in which to take action and so with a person there's an equivalent state that a person can be in It's called Locked In Syndrome. There is a famous book that was made into a film called The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, it was written by a Frenchman who was at the wheel of his car and suffered a stroke and had a car accident they thought he was brain dead and they took him home to care for him. And he could still blink his eyes but they thought that it was just their reflex movement, they didn't think there was anything to that

42:54 In truth, he was still perfectly conscious inside there but it was like being buried alive because nobody knew he was in there. They thought that he was brain dead so he managed to convey to a very attentive aide that he was still in there she noticed that there is a pattern to his eye blinks and she figured out that he was selffully conscious inside their and she worked up a system of eye blinks indicate letters and he ended up writing this entire book one letter at a time with her help Well, the non-material universe is like that because about a third of the way into the cycle they figure out that where these changes in time frame are leading is to a situation that's just like locked-in syndrome would be for a person. It's a state of perfect consciousness where you can't move

43:42 And it's like being buried alive. If you don't have an aid who can move, who knows you're in there and who can interpret for you? It's a horrific state to be in. So the way the Yuga cycle works is at the point where the ascending side is least material, the descending side is most removed from even understanding that non-materialism is even there that our ability to perceive the non-material becomes less and less and less. So just at the point that the non material side needs us most, the material side is least able even know they're there And so about a third of way into cycle the non material decides if I'm gonna have a compatriot when i'm locked in I need to establish a structure for society on the material side That will preserve the knowledge of fact that I am here. Hmm...and so

44:35 the symbolic system comes around framed in a way where the hope is that it will retain its coherency for thousands and thousands of years, and at the same time the esoteric tradition sort of selectively filters out sincere caretakers. A group of sincere people who are attuned to the non-material who can act as responsible caretakers for the non material. So in the mindset of Samkhya There are routine attempts being made by the non-material side to communicate with the material side all the time. Yes! And they come in the form of vivid images and dreams, synchronicities or what look to us like synchronicities you know coincidences, the unusual behavior of animals divination like during the I Ching clairvoyancy and all the paranormal type ways of knowing things that science doesn't recognize Sure Now

45:31 the more a person on the material side pays attention to those, after awhile you may if you've experienced some of these things. You may reach a point where you feel like that could not have possibly been a coincidence what just happened or what has been happening isn't reasonably considered a coincidence there's too little chance it could happen and the people who pay attention to that and credit that there might be something else going on foster it for themselves Another metaphor I use let's say you were from Eastern Europe and you attended a party in New York City And he didn't speak English But about 1 3rd of the way into the party You realize there was some guy over in the corner who sort of spoke Ukrainian, and you knew a little Ukrainian? You'd go over and spend the rest evening next to that guy hoping to be able to communicate with him

46:17 That's what the non-material does as it becomes aware of the fact that someone on the material side is taking these attempts at communication seriously. They try to foster them, same way you and I might try to foster a spark to light a campfire. I love it man absolutely! Make so many strange things sound kind of normalized like when you say. The time differential between the two realities leaves non material beings no clear moment to act i mean that is just so in line with what i hear from even magic practitioners who partake and ritual and try to contact spiritual entities as they often say that,

47:01 They might ask for something and it comes to them in a strange form or at a time depth that is nowhere near when they asked or how they asked. And it almost does seem just like that, like you might make a plea to a spirit and the spirit might be willing to help but it just comes out in 20 years rather than 20 days. I guess this would explain why that happens? Right, I mean it could potentially explain a lot of different things. If we have shifting time frames the astrophysicists say that certain particles of matter only exist for microns of a second or millions of a second and that it looks to them as if certain things are random. My perspective on that, based on the dynamics that underlie all this stuff is no those are not random but they happen so quickly that we don't have a tool refined enough to measure it It's like trying to measure millimeters with a yardstick That if you're trying to predict where along the yard stick this thing's going to pop up You don't have a tool refined enough to be able to predict it And so everything looks like its random because your misguessing all of time As to where it's gonna be

48:03 I can even imagine that during certain eras, if the non-material were trying to take action on the material side there might be a minimum length of time in any given area that they can access. So now if you're trying to use energy to shape stone, you might not be able to shape the stones smaller than 700 tons in the amount of time you've got. Over time what we see happen with these ancient stones structures is that what start out as these intensely large blocks of stone that why in the world would anybody how could have moved it? Why would they even work with it

48:39 The perspective of an engineer I know is that you would only build something out of 700 ton blocks if that were the easiest way to build it. Or, if you were doing that for a particular effect. So there are lots of different indications of time frame. You have certain events happen like the appearance of the Hebrew God on the mountain. Certain events like that seem to happen only in increments of about 1500 years You know, that might simply be at that stage of the game what travel time. That was the minimum amount of time they could get back and do the next thing if you have timeframe flowing at different rates on both sides it's going much more quickly on the other side it's like trying to catch a stick that's floating down a river

49:24 It's going to move a certain distance before you're able to grab it. Yeah, I just really do love getting into what the interactions between the spirit world and this one might be like! I didn't expect us to get into it so much today honestly but I do love it and it kind of justifies...I mean you mentioned earlier that it could be feeling as if you were buried alive and we do have these threads where the archetype of a trickster being is thrown out there or this idea that the spirits have disdain for man, or there are jealous angels. I mean this is kind of like a grass-is always greener kinda thing. Like whichever realm you're in your like man that one seems like the higher plane because we say that over here too! A lot of people think the spirit dimension is a higher dimension rather than a parallel one

50:13 Right, and in the mindset of this tradition it's eye to eye. These are siblings that are described as companions who walk side by side As a matter of fact you get down to the bottom of the concept of a covenant in Judaism what it brings you to is the idea of these two universes who go through this perpetual cycle where one has to train the other as its caretaker eventually because he knows he's going to need it Ah And so there's this understanding that since where each all the other one has. As these roles shift, we're each going to do for the other one... We're gonna play our own role in whatever stage of the cycle were in either to be the caretaker or to be the trainer and it goes on like that and that's a perpetual covenant

50:57 Wow that seems like a pretty awesome thing to have baked into reality but to bring it back to go back we tap a I know that also in your book the mystery of scarab ray you talk about this megalithic site in Scotland and then its maybe somewhat similar but when when the people left orkney island. It was buried just like go back with tap a was buried I guess some curious as to why that might be why these stewards of this knowledge would decide to bury it. Everything is symbolism, there is an Egyptian word that means to cover over or to bury its pronounced ark phonetically that could either be a RQ or ARK depending on how it's transliterated symbolically what the word presents is

51:51 It repeats the dynamic of a tradition that happens every day in the Jewish temple. In the Jewish temple, what happens is every Jewish temple anywhere in the world is reading the same portion of The Old Testament that's written on a Torah scroll on the same day and over the course of the year they read the entire scroll and so they always forward to the next portion there always all on the same portion doesn't matter what temple you walk into your gonna hear the correct portion for that day of the year When they finish reading that section, which is treated as an instructed lesson. They then cover the Torah scroll over and set it inside a cabinet to protect it that's called an Aron HaKodesh That's a phrase that gets abbreviated to Ark Symbolically what they're doing with these temple sites sanctuary sites when they cover them over is

52:47 They're saying, look the instructional purpose of this site was brought to completion and to demonstrate that we've carefully covered it over. It didn't accidentally get abandoned midway through. We didn't get interrupted you can see that we finished what we were doing because we carefully covered it over and put it away for someone else to find at a later point also understanding that The information that's in the esoteric tradition is aimed at a highly technological audience. It rests on, Buddhism flatly says it rests on symbols that really only a technical audience is going to be able to see these are forms that exist in nature like the shape of an electron orbit

53:27 Or the dynamic of virtual particles only a technological society is going to recognize these for what they are. But when I see them there can immediately know that's what it is you can not capable of losing meeting for electron orbit shape these are called adequate symbols symbols that whose meaning in here is in their shape so, Because it's aimed at a future audience, covering over these sites was a productive thing because that also would preserve them for that same future audience. Covering over the Gobekli Tepe site protected all the carvings and protected the stonework We come along and we dig it up, and now we have almost perfect examples of what they've done because they'd been sitting there buried for thousands of years. Same thing on Orkney Island—the sites there were covered over, buried in some cases deliberately. But with the Orkney sites they also left symbols along with a buried site. For example just before they abandoned Orkney Island they held a major feast

54:27 These were farmers who also had cattle and sheep, and if they knew they were leaving the island rather than leaving the livestock behind to die of starvation or leaving them their own devices. They ended up slaughtering about 400 of them for this feast Now when the feast was done, they left bones all around the site of the feast. But not just any bones, they left just the tibias these are leg bones that got set all around the site well an Egyptian word for leg bone is pronounced just the same way as an Egyptian word that means to depart in haste or to depart under duress

55:10 They also left the carcass of a deer across the top of the buried site, an intact carcass. That also implies to leave under duress because you had to leave so we're left with impression that they knew they had to leave but it wasn't so urgent and it wasn't like there were enemy soldiers on their doorstep. They had time have a feast then there was third piece where they a cow or bull skull on top of that whole buried site, which carried another message about what it was they were doing and why they were doing it. And that's the technique that is used in ancient times fairly frequently that they leave behind symbolic elements and if you find out how the words are pronounced for those symbolic elements, it tells you something. It's the same way dream interpretation can work. There's a dynamic between the non-material and the material

56:02 It's unity to multiplicity. Every ancient tradition says that, that the non-material is associated with unity which is entanglement and the material is associated with multiplicity so every atom is like a subdivision of a grand non-material source and every individual consciousness is like a subdivision of a grand material consciousness That same dynamic is seen if you shine white light into a prism, you get the seven colors of a rainbow. That is the dynamic across this threshold between non-material and material. It happens with language also that if you have a cosmological concept which according to the Dogon and the Buddhists knowledge of that concept actually begins on the non-material side not the material side then its expression when it crosses that boundary automatically becomes multiple not single

56:56 And so in the Egyptian hybrid for the Dogon, you end up with multiple meanings of the same word and meanings that are discrete from each other. It's not like they're related to each other. The name of the creator god Amma means to grasp or to hold firmer, to establish. This is the hidden creator god, the hidden God. In Egypt, the name of the hidden God also means to hold firmer, to establish In Hebrew, the same word amen comes from a root that means to establish. So these clusters of meaning go together in all these different cultures no matter what the language is the concept goes with the same cluster of other concepts. Yeah I mean this is just amazing man and that's kind of like what I was thinking about the burial of these places as if you had a true understanding of the cyclical nature of things you would have full faith that the structure which

57:51 would be unearthed again when it was needed, you know? It would be like a significant point on the cyclical timeline which might speak to the idea that we are slightly on the upswing if we've uncovered it and then maybe it takes us awhile to unpack what it was about and then for wider understanding to take place but You do amazing work, so much fun. I expected to talk about the Maori a little bit more but they really are just one of many entry points that end up at a similar place and that's kind of the beauty of what you do. Are there other cultures you plan to tackle or new books in the works? You did mention one a bit earlier. I'm in the process probably about halfway through a book that I'm calling The Plan Of The Ancient Cosmology and the reason I wanted to write this book is because it gives me an opportunity

58:37 Express a bunch of things about as time goes on I get insights as to some of the choices that were made in how the cosmology itself was framed and put together. how the educational process was presented, why things are different in one culture than in a different culture. So this is basically talking about how was the cosmology itself structured as an educational tool and why were these choices made the way they were? I also talked about the possibility of long time wanted to rewrite some of the myths whether or not I would have Enough of those to fill a book is a good question, but the exercise of trying to get down at the bottom with what the myth's about is a really worthwhile one for me because it ties all the pieces together. By the time I get to the point where I could rewrite that myth, I have my arms around the whole picture. That's one of the goals or what I'm trying to get to we'll see if that book happens in the past A number of the books have picked me. I haven't picked them This is like Ollivander's Wands

59:39 the wand picks the wizard in Harry Potter. But it's the same thing that out of the blue there'll be a question that comes from somebody I don't know, and if I sincerely pursue that question it puts me onto material that opens up a whole book in a short amount of time. That happened with Mystery of Scarab Ray, it happened with Point Of Origin, and actually happened with my book Seeking The Primordial. Nice! Not to say something like that won't bump the things I think I'm working on and put me onto the thing I actually work on. Well, I love it. And if you write that Gaius book you let me know. Yeah maybe a while till i get to that one but its interesting to know about anyway For sure! Well heck yeah! I really look forward the one you are working on and would like remind people of anything else before we go? Your website how to keep tabs on what your doing Sure my publisher is inner traditions and they have a website innertraditions.com

1:00:33 There's an author page for me there. There is also an author page on SimonandSchuster.com for me, so those are places to come up with books. The books are available pretty much anywhere Amazon or Barnes & Noble whatever you're likely to find the most recent books on the shelf at Barnes and Noble if you looking for me personally I'm on Facebook i'm the only Laird Scranton on Facebook I joke that people shouldn't confuse me with all the other Laird Scranton But those are probably the best ways to try to find me. And then if there's a reason to talk by email or whatever, I do that too. I'm usually happy to explore a question or answer a question or give an opinion about something if somebody needs that right on beautiful well this has been great like I said I do love the work you do Laird and keep examining this world and piecing the big puzzle back together for us

1:01:27 The new book from Intertraditions is called Decoding Mori Cosmology, and it's been out only a few months now. Actually since the middle of May. That's the primary work this year that we're trying to get some attention for Indeed and i definitely love that book it's a great read if you're familiar with the other books and I love the connections to the dogon, add it just great to learn more about cultures that we are completely. Separated from our we feel separated from in our little western bubble so amazing stuff man keep doing what you do and take care out there well thank you very much for your god.

1:02:09 Whoa, people. Whoa! How do we feel about that one? The bridge of Serah himself... A little reference for the plus people there but I loved it and i even told Laird that this is one of those shows that I knew I would be excited to put out sometimes you get off an interview and you feel a bit eh And then it's really a drag to go through the process and put the thing out knowing that It's not the best work We can do but that is not the case today I did read Laird's book on the Maori, or the Māori, or the Morai. I suck at saying it! I can read it a lot better but I watched a couple of YouTube videos on The Tribe even just beforehand to try and get it right and hear a lot of different inflections And also that The Tribe itself had no name for themselves collectively and the name was just applied to them But then I found other sources that also say THAT'S wrong

1:03:09 Other sources say that's just an umbrella term for many different groups of people who consider themselves very differently than other groups under the same label. But all this, to me, speaks to just how hard it is to really even get the simplest effects right when it comes to indigenous cultures or just cultures outside our own because I would absolutely want to be accurate and I hope anybody with a Maori heritage would feel that we were respectful, because there's clearly a history of whitewashing an empire splaining when it comes to most of the remaining cultures in the world. Obviously I can't undo any of that but i would also hope to refrain from adding to it when we have show like this but people in groups who get too vigilant about policing that type of thing

1:04:00 are why some people might not bother trying at all, and I think that's worse. Right? Well like i said in the show it really was just a jumping off point to get deep into what the core esoteric tradition is or how we can see echoes and references to it in many different cultures that did not communicate with each other And even that's complicated, right? Because many of us are American. So when you dig into alternative American history you quickly learn that Columbus didn't discover America firstly there were plenty of people already here but still You hear some pretty wild stories that maybe the Romans came here Maybe the Vikings came here Remember Harry Hubbard who was all about Alexander The Great's hidden riches in Illinois so who knows if your Mormon you think ancient Jews sailed over here and became the Native Americans

1:04:52 My point is only to say that you can kind of come out of all those threads thinking, hey maybe someone did go around and physically traveled all these cultures and taught them the ways of civilization. And gave them symbols and stories to understand the complex makeup of reality...and our place in it? Maybe! But I just struggle with the lack of physical evidence for that. Maybe there are enough out-of-place artifacts and suppressed finds to make the case But the argument that many different cultures tap into the same spirit realm for this information is much more plausible to me now that I feel like i have a shaky but somewhat sound model for how that other realm works. First off, many of these cultures are still doing it they still have spiritual traditions and shamanic practices so there you go! I wonder why?

1:05:46 And as Laird said, these non-physical beings seem to come to them actually. That's a big deal and we gotta listen to what they say! There's also some stories out there that these cultures had white gods or white teachers, and you never know if that's nationalism getting in there along the way somewhere. Or if maybe these beings were beings of light and white and light kind of got lost in translation it can look white if you're trying to describe light as a color again how do you make sense of all this stuff

1:06:21 But I think it's fascinating to think of a world where our twin dimensions were not so separate. We get enough bleed over today for people who care to see it or people who work on it a bit, but imagine the dial turned up 30%, 40% 60% on that bleed over? Who is going to go to work at the Pepsi plant in that reality? Who is watching another drawn out Marvel show on Netflix in THAT reality?! I'm also reminded of interviews with Gordon White or recently Jason Louvre where we talked about the spirits having a fascination with empire. And that sounds a bit negative, but then we talk about the spirits giving man the teachings of agriculture and societal building and we think that's a positive thing

1:07:08 But if you wanted to be cynical, you could almost make the case that the spirits are playing the long game. Because you can't influence empire if we don't stop and settle down first! I almost think about it as the spirits playing chess almost... And with hunter-gatherers, you just have pawns on the board no disrespect but people of limited power and conquering ability And you have to mold your way up to the bishops and the rooks and knights and queens on the board. Because once you build man up or a structure, society, empire... Then YOU have more powerful pieces with which to control the board if you're acting through man Or influencing man or whatever they do to us These are my stupid stoner thoughts But I like to play around with motivations and intentions when looking at all this stuff

1:08:03 But, you know. Real fun show today I felt like i got a couple of those moments as Laird was breaking it down where I felt like for a split second I could understand the whole thing Like oh! There is that's it but then it just slips away Like a good psychedelic insight tends to do Maybe im crazy Also think if you fold this in with what Ann Streber had been communicating to Whitley from the last show theres alot of complimentary stuff there So that's cool too. Either way, I hope we did you justice and injected some deep and thought-provoking stuff in this shallow and simple culture... And no politics! Isn't that great? So I'm sure you also heard my little plus price preamble at the beginning that pretty much said it all so i don't really know why I'm bringing it up here really but sign up for PLUS if you enjoy the show and want to hear the whole second half of these here conversations

1:09:01 Today with Laird we got into the king's list of ancient Egypt and a slower time frame effect on the physical body and lifespan, the Tibetan priest class, the Naki, and the guarding their local portal so to speak. Laird thoughts on the hollow earth theory our digital development and quickening time frames And then I even asked Laird his analysis of Gaize if you remember The Ross Ben show And we also spent an odd amount of time on circumcision, but it's there. As well as Dogon numerology and fairies of druidic culture so it is a serious Pandora's box A rich and action-packed second hour to say the least I hope you join me on the plus side

1:09:50 I think the new call-in joint sessions are gonna be a lot of fun. I'll get to talk to some of the cool listeners out there, and when the crazies try to get at me it will be a fun shared experience rather than the isolated awkwardness that it has been for the last few years It will be my immersion therapy...I'm thinking And I'm going to make this video because apparently some people want to see me and think that's important and time will tell. But now I'm gonna have to shower and dress myself on work days, which is a lot to ask for me now that i'm set in my ways but hey the things I do for you right?

1:10:30 I'm just messing around. I love you guys! And, I guess that's it for me A solid show to kick off the month and i know you're gonna like the next two because I already recorded them a little bit of magic...a little bit of the personal journey towards life's divine mysteries and your true will and its going to be a good time for everyone so keep your mind sharp, your glasses full and your pimp hands strong It's rough out there Your move spiritual teachers, shamanic masters and counselors of the big cosmology Your fucking mood. Woke up this morning with light in my eye And then realized it was dark outside It was like coming down from the sky Must be those strangers that come every night

1:11:39 Whose saucer shapes of light put people uptight Leave blue-green footprints that glow in the dark Hope they get home Mr. Spaceman, won't you please take me along? Don't do anything wrong Hey Won't you please take me along to the high side

1:12:29 I woke up this morning, was feeling quite weird. Had flies in my beard My toothpaste was smeared. I opened my window they'd written my name said So long we'll see you again Hey Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along

1:13:09 Won't do anything wrong Hey Won't you please take me along the higher side Mr. Spaceman won't you please take me along? Won't do anything wrong Hey Won't you please take me along the higher side Won't you please take me

1:14:02 The high side