Harry Hubbard | Ancient Map Mysteries, Phantom Islands, & The Hollow Earth

00:04 That's true, Dr. Zayas! Folks, we know the world is a mysterious place with a past full of amazing things despite the shadowy elites best attempts to destroy and censor as much of it as they can. From early explorers reports that indicate the possibility of a hollow earth and ancient maps that show this another anomalies such as phantom islands To out-of-place artifacts in ancient America that turn the official history on its head there's no shortage of provocative clues for anyone who takes the time to look below the whitewashed surface

01:08 And today's guest, rebel scholar Harry Hubbard has been swimming in the wake of these mysteries most of his life. Being a long-time collector of old books, coins, maps and artifacts has put him face to face with some of the best evidence for a past that looks much different from the one we're given. People who know Harry Hubbard are probably familiar with him due to his involvement in the Illinois Cave Saga, where a huge trove of ancient artifacts were found inside a cave in Marion County, Illinois that Harry has spent years studying and he attributes the find to being The Lost Tomb Of Alexander The Great. He's got no shortage of alternative anecdotes and strange sagas to talk about and you can watch Harry walk you through most of his collections and ideas on his YouTube channel! It is a real pleasure having him here, Harry my man welcome to the higher side!

01:51 Hey, glad to be here Greg. For sure man this is a real treat I've had a blast watching your videos and seeing a lot of strange and rare relics up close and personal some of these videos you've made of course are over 20 years old at this point but they're still pretty unique it's great that you're getting them online now for those listening that are unfamiliar with you in your work tell us a little bit more about how you got interested in this kind of stuff and amassed such a huge collection Well, I guess we can start out. My mother encouraged me to read and she said, I'll buy you books if you read them and so she bought books that are at home and I couldn't fudge any because she would ask me what was the third chapter about? And I'm like well, I don't know when you go read the third chapter and come back and tell me what it is So then I started to pick up because I knew my mother was going to quiz me

02:38 I started having to remember what was in these books. And also with Bible verses, my mother had me memorize half the New Testament before I was like 14. So just reading and reading and developing a love for reading at an early age. And I developed the ability to read much faster probably after I got out of high school, a few years after I got out of high school is when I really learned picked up my reading speed. Right on. Yeah, I mean the collection you have of all kinds of things is just so impressive and i've always been interested in anything related to the Hollow Earth and you detail some old maps in your video The Lyzeria Map Collection? Yeah that was my old map collection yep

03:18 Yeah, you mentioned to me that your father was actually listening live when Admiral Byrd was on the radio and they cut him off when it started to get weird. So this Hollow Earth idea has been with you from an early age it seems hasn't? Yes my father grew up out west he had collected UFO flying saucers books And if there was something back in the late 60s, early 70s coming on TV about UFO's or flying saucers. That was what was on the TV that night it wasn't you don't touch nothing nobody watches he wanted to watch his shows and naturally I would watch them with him and we all would there was nothing we could say about it He was the boss then so these books were laying around as a matter of fact I still have today

04:03 several, probably 15 of his books UFO books. So obviously you know I've always been familiar with the Admiral Byrd story and most of us have as part of the Hollow Earth 101 but there are plenty of early explorers who sailed around in northern polar region and southern who have reported unexpected things can tell us about any of them that are lesser known that you find compelling? Just about every one of them. We mentioned several in the map video of the stories that the guys had seen and, you know just stories of uh...the explorers in the North Pole region that found the bears always moving north or the birds always flying north and there was just so much activity even up until the beginning of the 20th century

04:51 And people got lost, people froze. The Long's crew got frozen up in northern Siberia. It was treacherous! Man had to advance to a certain point to be able to conquer those elements and As I understand it, I don't know. I'd have to do some more looking around on it but or anyone in your audience could but Admiral Byrd was giving like day-to-day updates or hourly updates or something like that to uh for either ABC or CBS radio he was giving these update and he would come on and he would talk about what they were doing and he would talk about

05:32 where they were at, and in different segments. And it was in the one segment that my dad had told me that just sounded like it was static and they just turned it out. And he had those planes out—it was really interesting how Admiral Byrd had those planes outfitted for these super cold temperatures. Quite remarkable! He was a brilliant man when it came to fighting those cold elements Yeah, I think that is really interesting. I've heard other people talk about hearing him live on the radio and That would be pretty amazing But is that normal to broadcast? I guess a military operation to broadcast updates over mainstream radio That seems a little odd we wouldn't do that today. I don't think I don't know that it was such a military Operation was probably a publicity stunt from one of the television one of the radio companies. Hmm now

06:20 I don't know who funded his research, but I would think that the military probably wouldn't want to have their name attached to it. But now we're going to be talking later some about the Smithsonian Institute and as I understand it, the Smithsonian Institute was actually in this is in the old books that it was actually created To study the possibility that the earth was hollow from the rumors leading up through the middle 1800's So so and then you know that the smithsonian institute is a lot like nasa no answer still available i bought that from alex call your great thing. They won't let you up in that area now and,

07:03 Pilots can't fly commercially over it because if by chance some plane or jet did go down, you'd hardly... If their beacon went out or whatever they could not be visually seen. There would be no way to find them cause compasses don't work It's like when Admiral Byrd explains his compass the compass goes up because they were a big ball, they were suspended in a big ball of liquid that wouldn't freeze. And then the north it actually starts to point up and when it gets just past straight up, it flips around and turns backwards. That's why on these old maps from what I find is old maps from the 1600s if they got you know the little legend out of the side you have to go by this bar right here. Don't use your compass once you get into the higher latitudes

07:49 your compass is worthless. Yeah man, it seems as dangerous as it is mysterious of course those early explorers reported all sorts of things we wouldn't expect today open polar seas greenery warmth coming from the north and these might be some of the things you'd experience before getting to the hole supposedly if there is indeed some heat source at the top or the bottom coming from an open cavity, but these things weren't uncommon to report during that little sliver of time we call the Age of Exploration and these voyages to find a Northwest Passage. But there's also fraud in this area potentially, and two of the big explorers who don't talk about these things that were told discovered the North Pole in the mainstream are Nansen and Cook

08:33 And it seems like there are reasons why you doubt these people actually did discover the North Pole, which would help to leave open the hollow earth possibility. When I went this is years ago, went through the congressional records that had a way to access them back in the mid late 90s and the dawning stages of the Internet and when you read the accounts of Nansen and Cook, it is obvious that neither one of them got to the... They proved each other wrong. I thought very well that neither one had made it to the North Pole and then when you see the trail of their journey just went straight there one way and then came straight back. Well, that doesn't seem possible because the ice is quite jagged. It's razor sharp. You can't pull a sled or dogs. It's not like smooth river ice

09:23 It's not like that at all. It's all bunched up icebergs and mountains of ice, crushed in this and that so I don't put a lot of credit into those. If it was printed after World War II, I would find it questionable Fair, fair. But yeah I guess at that time it seems like a big fight for ego and publicity of who can say they did it first but are there any claims about the- about actually going inside the earth or getting near the hole that you do find credible? Oh yeah Admiral Bard for sure! Would he be the only one? I'm sure there are other credible sources, but i have not seen them. There were supposedly some Norwegian man and his son that set out fishing one afternoon or one morning and ended up going into the north pole and coming out of the south pole what was it called the smoky god or something like that. Olaf Janssen

10:20 Yeah, I can't put nonfiction on it. I just can't. I'd have to see more than you know just the tail mm-hmm I would bring something a great the size of a softball or a grape seed the size of a Pecan you know something to prove that they were there that what they said was true Right it's the kind of thing I really want to believe but There's not a whole lot of evidence to go on unfortunately which makes it tough correct and And we've got this one guy, Agnew. Something about Agnew and he's wanting to mount an expedition to the North Pole. Oh Brooks Agnew yeah! We've interviewed him before. Brooks Agnew that's him but they won't let you up there The United States military Canadian military Norwegian and Russian military will not allow it Yeah and there has gotta be a reason for that Yes yes I'm sure they have a bunch of reasons

11:18 So, to talk about the maps a bit. The one that I recognized as the most well-circulated Hollow Earth map that you have in that one presentation it's got the water flowing out of four main channels around four big land masses suspected to be under ice now but you detail in that video... You mention it was made by a guy named Matias Matthias Quattus. Matthias Quattus in the 1600s, what can you tell us about his credibility as a mapmaker? Well the Catholic Church sanctioned him so that's one good fight to have in this corner but he was actually making more renditions and different scripts slightly different script to a map previous to that by Gerhardus Mercator and there was Abraham Ortelius in that same time frame and also Ramon Mercator who I believe

12:10 your hardest mercator's nephew. It was either his nephew or his grandson, one of the other I never knew so that same legend with some extra is on the Matias Cuadras map but he was not the originator of that actual circular pattern that you see there as far as i know well you can go even back to 1507 the map that Christopher Columbus had those four islands on it the Johannes Ruch map. Christopher Columbus had a Johannes Ruch map, and those four islands were at the top of it. Wow! So that's basically a hollow earth map? Well not so much but just a world map that didn't have North America on it but it had Cape Cod on it

12:56 the Massachusetts Cape Cod, but it was attached to China. And you had Cuba labeled as Japongo with a different shape on it. So I believe that Christopher Columbus was just looking for the missing eight hours on the map And I can't find that anybody in Christopher Columbus's day thought that the Earth was flat. That all comes from the 1800s, and I can't find it in any ancient language or classical literature. All of the classical writers talked about the Earth as being a sphere. They spoke of the heavens as being a sphere

13:34 And are we so dumb to think that ancient man couldn't look up at the moon at night? Oh, wow! That's a ball. It has dimension to it. Look at the sun and in the sunrise and in the sunset... oh that is a circular ball. You know hey chances are this planet here is a ball too So I don't think anybody ever thought that Earth was flat. Except in todays time since what the 1970s or 1960 there has been a real good push for the Flat Earth Theory Don't I know it, man. But when we're looking at maps as possible evidence for a hollow earth or missing land masses and they have such glaring flaws as missing North America obviously I still find them interesting but to be fair it makes it a bit hard to use them for validation because they are so clearly inaccurate in other areas right? Perhaps the best rendition that I can recall-I don't have mine anymore was the Dover publication

14:30 What was it, Geology of the World? Or something. It was in a Dover... I mentioned it in the Lazuria Map Collection video, the book by Dover Publications that's got the Johannes Ruis map on it and it's good! It's good. It shows what they call the Bargos Islands and I did a reprise on the Bargos Islands in the Denver lecture. I showed where the classical author Pliny or some people call him Pliny. I don't care, Plinius He was writing in what, 70 AD or so? And he writes about the Burgos Islands.

15:07 the four Burgos Islands way at the North Pole. So evidently somebody had been there over 2,000 years ago or close to it so they are mentioned in classical history. That makes it even more intriguing and there is a lot of script all around that big hollow earth map that gives added context and details about the geography and the climate do you remember any of those added details that are on there? Yeah, I like the one that the fishing of sturgeon is good in these waters. Right Well how in the world would they know? Now let's go back to George Souter He was a German mapmaker his maps were in German old German So what does this tell you it tells you that he was a Lutheran in 1736 he was a Lutheran and 1700s That's when the Lutheran Church Martin Lutheran is Reformation and Protestant okay so at

15:59 At that time, there were no Lutherans just making stuff up. They weren't just making things up I mean you know he had to have had... He had to be convinced because he was a good mapmaker Now he did have one map that they say was a fantasy map Okay but he never put it out as real map This map here The Schleroppenland Map He never said that it was bogus at all And like I say It was found in the doorstep of his mapmaking shop He didn't know, he just came. You know he left one night and came back the next morning and it was there so he printed it But there's also other things too. On this island is where the machine that controls the weather is located, and it talks about we have sunlight daylight but its not as bright as the sun but its daylight inside you know 24 hours a day or however what their day was if it was sunny all of time we would just have to go by our clocks to determine what day it was or anything

16:57 Yeah, I thought that was fascinating because you have this map by a prominent map maker of a continent or series of land masses that is completely foreign. The Tropic of Capricorn and the Tropic of Cancer are both on the map, but they're angled in a way that you could say this would be a map from the interior of the Earth. Land masses on the inside and yes, you mentioned they say that it's light here both day and night? And the most provocative thing is on one island is says the machine that controls the weather is kept here! I mean my jaw hit the floor on that one. In 1736 they didn't have any science fiction

17:39 Yeah, definitely fascinating. Is there anything else about the Bargo Islands? I know it's scarce but is there anything else any kind of details about anyone who has ever landed on these islands or anything? Not in modern history no not modern history and all the detail though that Yohannes Mercator that he put on their and then all the added materials that Matias Cuadros put into his maps there evidently they had been there okay like for instance when they're talking about the hours of sun in the summer months and the hours of sun in the winter months

18:14 You're not going to know that unless you've been there for a while. So they went up there, they did camp, they did spend time there if you got it printed in 16...in the early 1600s, 1605-1607-8 etc., or even before then in the late 1500's where people did go there. Your're not gonna know that living on the equator or living in the lower latitudes lower latitudes. You're not going to know that it's pitch black dark throughout the winter or around the solstice times, you're not going to know that. Right! That's good evidence. Yeah and also on the Qantas maps

18:51 where they're talking about you can go into this lake here is unexplored. But it's on the map and it's on the maps of today, where evidently somebody was there to stand there and say you know what? Somebody needs come look at that. Somebody needs to follow that back. And if you look on the map at the south end of Hudson Bay well there are two rivers there! Well how in the world would they know those rivers were there if they hadn't been there at the south end of Hudson Bay in early 1600s. That's true, that's true and again all this stuff seems to be so old have you seen any evidence or indication at all that these islands are there or that the hole is there in modern times? Oh yeah! Really?

19:34 Oh yeah, if you just Google maps of the North Pole. Well I show one at the end of that video. The satellite composite? Yes and that was in what 67th there are also some from 64 65 and even more modern today they show you uh satellite pictures that will show it and i mean just NASA website whatever you can see the outline of those four islands just as plain as day you Yeah, you can at least see on some of them that there's been some manipulation or editing done. Yes on some of the other big grandeur maps of the world without its cloud cover Some of those map they kind of mask over it with ice and they give a lot of fiction stuff on it which is typical Anything that goes away goes astray from their theory and what they want you to know They know how to block it out They know what they're doing

20:33 It's also interesting that we have these legends of Hyperborea, which is thought to be a landmass to the north. And then you have the entrance or the Bargoat Islands are definitely could be something there Some people had thought that Hyperborea was Wittenbergen or Nova Zambla, and even the Bargos Islands. It could be either one of them. It was somewhat ambiguous but they did write about it in... They even had legends I believe it was an Ireland about coming down from the north Wow, man. And are there other entrances talked about besides the polar regions that have interested you? Not that I can recall. There are some pretty deep caves but there is some kind of a heated mantle or molten rock layers

21:24 in there, because the farther down you go the hotter it gets. They... when I was growing up they always said that the inner core of the earth was a real heavy condensed packed iron just this metallic material made up of iron and magnesium and manganese and all these metals which is packed up and they were told me like one tablespoon of it will weigh a ton. It's so packed! So compacted! Okay, now as I got a little older, well isn't that throwing all the properties of physics just right out the window? Aren't we just taking physics and throwing it – you know wadding in up in a snowball and throwing it. It doesn't make any sense at all. You can't compress iron.

22:06 You're not gonna, there's just so much you can do. And then we have other metals that are much heavier like uranium and plutonium that are very heavy but you don't have metal...and if the earth was spinning at a thousand miles an hour around and you had this heavy iron core, and it's surrounded by molten rock. Well brother I'm telling you man how can anything survive being surrounded by molten rock? How could it have... in other words we would... there..it makes no sense to have a solid core of the earth if their theories are correct then it would be a hot liquid There's no, you can't take any metal in the world and put it into molten lava. And it is gonna change back to a liquid. I mean my gosh what is lava and molten rock? That's the elements melted down and they get extremely hot

22:57 Right. That's the iron core is the official story I heard as well, do you think that there is any justification for an open cavity inside that jives with our scientific understanding? Or do you think it's a liquid core? Oh, I would have. I just know what I read and I'm just able to present facts. I really don't have an opinion. I really don't share speculation concerning it. I'm just saying that whatever they're saying is really hard to believe, really hard to believe. And with all the molten rock that's down there and all the elements and ores that are all churning. Well, where does the actual heat come from? What is the generation of that heat?" It's the same thing as what they get from the Sun. Oh well it's a nuclear reaction! And it keeps going up... Who started it?! How did it...? Oh oh it just happened to fall out of thin air you know yeah

23:48 And then another thing is I've worked with pumps and motors all my life, and you got these mountains out in the Rockies in the West where hot water-I mean boiling water comes up out of the ground at like 8000 feet. Well, where is the steam? Where is the steam deposit? It has to be close to the surface. It can't be several miles down into the ground because the steam would eventually just turn to water and the water would cool off by the time it traveled 8000 feet above sea level Yeah, and I know you've also in your past worked with Tesla coils which is interesting because i think there's a real through line between rotation and anti-gravity electricity and gravity torsion fields and the possibility that the earth could be hollow though it would

24:39 kind of look like a torsion field if there was something to that. But the spinning around a central point, I mean that's what the Earth apparently does and that's what UFOs do to fly. That's how flying saucers get off the ground so they say. I believe Tesla had the answers to more of the Earth mysteries than we will ever know but i feel he probably... We just- The world wasn't ready for him. The world wasn't ready for him! And he left his thumbprint completely across the planet, and this planet would not have been what it is today without Tesla. And I mean such a remarkable mind It's unfortunate that a lot of what you read about him printed recently is not true So taking it on the cup and just examining his experiments and his patents and such he had more as a foundation than we'll ever know

25:34 And I believe he had more answers because of things that he just figured out. Sure, what are some of the things that you feel are being talked about with Tesla that are inaccurate? Oh certain things like it would hurt his ears to hear a thunderstorm 60 miles away Just things like that weird stuff just fluffed up You know that all he would just grind his teeth when a what a thunderstorm was 80 miles They are not going to hear a thunderstorm 80 miles away. It ain't gonna happen Okay, it ain't gonna and if not gonna rock and roll your ears It's just not going to happen. And it's just in some of the books that I guess came out in the 80s, you know? Just trying to make a buck because that was when the surge of Tesla had a reprise and was starting about the early 80s That's when the Tesla Coil Builders Association got its footing and people really started getting to experiment more with Tesla coils and building things in their shop and making their own discoveries with super high voltage

26:35 Right. It's a shame we haven't seen more widespread adoption in recent decades with that stuff Well, it wasn't going to make the commercial interest enough money And it was Edison that came up and said hey man if you don't put your transmission and power lines You're not gonna make any money with the maintenance That's how you charge people That's how you're going to make money is with poles storms wires and consumption And he was right, that's how come all the power companies are super wealthy. It never had to be that way from the beginning. Right it is an unfortunate situation you also mentioned the Vonnick manuscript in that video which has always been an interesting mystery for me for those who aren't familiar its a book dated back to the 1400s handwritten in unknown language I know you've done a lot of decipherments over the years do have any thoughts on what might be behind that mystery?

27:27 I would think at this point that somebody needs to have the Voynich manuscript sent into a forensic lab. That's all, that's all i'm saying it needs to be forensically tested and that will tell oh that will give you everything that will give you every testing the inks testing the paper but it's never been tested they don't want it tested they love as far as i'm concerned the story of its original passing from one to the next, and it just pops up again on the scene in what late 1800s early 1900's or so when Vornitsch bought it. What actually was the origin of it? And then I said well it came from this guy, came from this guy, come on let's put the Vornitsch manuscript

28:15 forensic lab of my choice and let's have our experts look at it. And then we'll be making some determinations, and then if the script is terrestrial we could bust that script." Yeah, that makes sense. I mean simple investigation is really all it takes and a lot less speculation but if they don't want it tested they don't want to test it maybe that speaks to being in forgery. I've always had this really bad personal issue. It's a problem and I put my money where my mouth is Why don't others? That's all I'm asking. Hey, send it in the forensics! I'll pay for it!" I hear you man and to bring it back to old maps a bit... A lot of them that you show in that presentation, a lot of old maps I've seen they include this phantom island called Friesland up near Iceland and Greenland some flushed out with details like names of cities on it too what can you tell us about this little enigma?

29:09 Bondon D, capital of prison. Well I believe it was either Forbesher or Davis that were the first to actually see it and record it and they drew the coastline wrote where it was and did all these things okay and said it was on the map and later on it wasn't there anymore It wasn't there anymore. But in that same area, it was like in the 40s I believe they did, they took soundings and of the North Sea which is pretty doggone deep and rough There was an area there that was only 200 feet below the surface

29:45 an entire area, like 20 miles by 20 miles out there in the ocean that was the surface. That the surface beneath the surface of the ocean was like 200 feet... not too many, 60 fathoms or less or something like that? I don't know. I can't remember exactly but um i've got all that documentation around somewhere but it appears to me that it just sunk and that area around Iceland is very active shall we say very active And, now I also want to point out and you might be interested in this as well. In Door Number 4 my video titled Door Number Four that has a bunch of artifacts my ancient coin collection in it but I also show two maps in there A Cornelius Whitfleet of 1597 and another Matthias Quattus of Iceland in there from like 1600 that didn't make it to the

30:42 actual laseria map video. I would have loved to have had those maps, but then the dadgum video would've run over two hours and back then VHS tapes only...I'd of had to cut something else to put them in let's put it that way so i did include them in another way I can't remember if a bottom after the video was made or they came while we were shooting it. Or if I didn't have enough time to include, I can't remember exactly but there are two more maps that show one of them shows Friesland in detail and the other one is another Matias quadus so that means I had 123 I had three quads at three Matthews quadruple

31:18 and that Juan Cornelius Whitley, which is a great Friesland. I was a Friesland collector but the Iceland map had on it so many what i loved about the Iceland map 1600 by Matias Quadus It had so many of these sea creatures in it that were described to him. And they drew these in the waters and such, and there's so many creatures in the sea that we don't know about. You know? Stellar Sea Creatures... Nobody still knows what THAT was! And then they had other creatures that have been wiped out by the post-medieval sailors, you know? The ones who went as the industrial world started taking shape in the 1500s and 1600s. They had animals that they just obliterated for food!

32:00 And a lot of them in the northern regions. Right, I mean the speculation is that when you're out at sea you start hallucinating or the dark just scares people and they start using their imagination to see things but do you think some of these creatures we see on old maps might have actually existed? Oh yeah, I believe every one of them did. I've got several books that talk about...that kind of post together different instances of different creatures that are...that were described by scientists and sea captains What are the people talking about your talk and i don't know of higher intelligence we're not talking grunt labor force or i mean not put down a lot of labor force but, what are you getting people at that time who were pretty much brilliant they're not like educated people up today which is like they don't even know what their name yet. The thing is if they were recording what they saw and many other things that they thought would absolutely spectacular

32:57 And Charles Fort recorded a bunch of them, even the US Navy. I've got... what is it? Was it The Shrine or it might have been lecture number six where I show phenomena in the United States Navy science books. It's absolutely outrageous they have no clue they have no clue Well, I mean you do have some other ancient artifacts of coins and other things of unknown animals. It's not completely unheard-of there are actually quite a few old references to animals we just can't identify today right? Look at dinosauria! There is a big issue there. And mammals... about once or twice a year there is some creature that washes up on some shore somewhere

33:41 that is absolutely unidentified. Now, there was a... what was it they were saying? That they had the largest the largest sea creature ever found and it was on an underground camera. You can type it in on YouTube, I imagine. And it shows a creature that's about the size of maybe a couple of campers put together or so you know? It was pretty big no doubt but I was scuba diving off the coast of San Carlos Mexico years ago and there is under... The water there is probably 30 35 feet deep. And there is a sponge there that is attached to a rock, and that rock

34:24 is the size of a house. It is the size of two bedroom house sunk down in the bay there and it's covered with one single organism, a sponge. And you can wave your hand over close to it I mean you can go and feel and touch it they all pull in or some kind member of the sponge family where you just wave your hand foot in front of it and they all respond They know you're there. They know you're there and I was just in awe, that creature how old would that creature be? Who knows! That's another area where you hear stories like that is the blue hole near Belize Talk about something that could be an entrance to an inner chamber in the earth I mean that looks like it when you look at it from a helicopter flyover but there are people who talk about seeing

35:15 giant squid there, a tentacle of a giant squid once in awhile. And it's like man yeah who knows but the bigger something under the ground is the bigger home it could be for something else for some type of organism whether it's a sponge on a rock or a giant squid and a giant hole Well, you make a point. You make a good point there because I believe there's some of those blue holes off the coast of Bahamas or between Bahamas and Florida And I believe it's in Ocala they have some of those bottomless holes near Ocala, Florida Hmm and some of them I mean years ago I could see him on Google years ago So that sure they're still there what perplexes me about Those which call blue holes which is a fine word for it to perfectly round yeah, they're perfect

35:57 They're perfectly round. They're not like jagged or square, or like man this rock here is too tough for me to carve a hole in I'm going to jump around and make people get the idea when they see it from the air three or four thousand years ahead you know after this but i'm just gonna leave this here It doesn't have to be perfect ah give or take a couple of inches no it was those guys are perfectly thick circular yeah and how does that he got me brother? You got me! I hear ya lot of mysteries out there oh yeah So as far as old maps are concerned, having studied as many ancient maps as you have, having as many as you had in your collection over the years. Are there other strange things that have interested you about them that you could share?

36:36 Well, just some of the descriptions of the people. They talk about the Scralingers and then some of things that happened later concerning what was known as Scraling. The oldest map I had was the Viejas River map carved on stone which Yuba's Map of Rivers by Helios had to predate it well that could have been 20 20 BC to 25 BC to 25 AD, who knows? Somewhere along in there. And that was the only map I had carved on stone that actually owned but then in one of my other presentations I showed just dozens of these old maps carved in stone that coincidentally just kind of follow right along with what some of the obscure information from the Smithsonian had

37:26 It's a big brain gulp, I'll guarantee you that. Correct, and when you see Eskimo – I've met Eskimo people before. I've met some Inuits. They're short but they're not pygmies! And the Europeans were only familiar with the African Pygmies. They would not have called a short person an Inuit. Eskimo, they would not have called them pygmies unless they were like shorter. I mean a pygmy you get the idea is like three and half to four foot tall or less and the Eskimo don't go five feet so I have a hard time

38:18 putting Eskimo into the pygmy category. Yeah, yeah seems like there's something else out there for sure and we talked about Friesland which is awesome I mean to have an island on maps that has many different cities even has a capital on it and then a couple hundred years later the Island is just gone...I mean that's quite a mystery but speaking of Phantom Islands I've been getting a lot of requests to talk about Atlantis. And you do show one map, you say is the oldest known depiction of Atlantis. What are your thoughts on this mystery? Well my thoughts are that... I don't have any thoughts! I'm just going to relate what Kircher says in 1663. He says he's quoting from Plato

38:59 And he talks, and now I want to point this out to you. You might write this down or check it out yourself. I go into that map in more detail during the Denver lecture. The Denver lecture and it's called the oldest authentic map of Atlantis. It's on YouTube and a bunch people have embedded it It's got like several hundred thousand views. But I talk about what Kircher says in his map, and he says he's getting it from Plato but it's not in Plato of today so we can say today unequivocally and accurately that Plato has been sanitized He talks about that there was a huge island there and that they had a machine... Okay, he's writing 1663 They had a machine there that bored through the main mountain range that went through Atlantis

39:46 that there was a mountain range in Atlantis, and they had this machine that was a mining machine. And that they were mining minerals. There was no specification of what exact mineral it was that they were mining but the whole mountain became honeycombed with tunnels and caves or mining passages I guess would be more accurate depiction this machine went through this mountain so much it was just honeycombed, and they had just about mined out all of the mineral out of it that they could. And they kept going in through and going through them, and if there was a slight earthquake...and then right after that slight earthquake BOOM! The whole island just collapsed on top itself. That's printed in 1653 in Latin So its gonna be hard to go back further with that but I just want to say that there are so many classical authors

40:35 that mention Atlantis, and I believe I cover a sequel to that in my video called The Shrine. The Shrine, I show you all the classical historians and that's where I point out my round earth theory. My round earth theory, that everybody from the ancient world knew the Earth was round. So in that I show... But they say oh Plato, Plato but I believe it was Strabo, Dionysius, Theodorus, Pliny and there were so many people who mentioned Atlanta and I'll show it to you right now out of the book And they were writing what, 2000 years ago? It wasn't just Plato. It wasn't just Plato. There were other... But you have to read a lot of books to find these little jewels! I mean, i pick up an old classical book and i have to read the whole book hoping to find one sentence or one jewel, one needle

41:27 Right. And I still have guests to debate where Atlantis was, where do you place it? Where does the research show middle of the Atlantic somewhere? Yeah. I mean just out there along the Atlantic Ridge possibly or I believe it was as large as what Ashes nature's culture draws it you know only because I mean it could have been smaller or something. I thought he did a good job, and now you've got people putting out videos on atlanta that are using my photos and my they're lifting their their material from my videos which i don't really mind you know it would be nice if they would give some credit but i have to actually think of the last video that they're just using my material right there you know that and that's what people do today that our researcher up today is uh... only familiar with google and wikipedia that then

42:24 Right. And you make good points about going back to older sources, things from the 1600s to the 1800s. Those are the sources that allow you to bypass the sanitation and censorship that is so prevalent today you're right on. You get one of these old books just for one great little piece of information, those are the nuggets I'm hungry for because there's no question a lot of things have been altered and changed and that little window of time is where you can probably get some great insights They didn't have an agenda, you know. They didn't have an agenda to keep people dumb or to promote the Darwinian theories or their theories of government and how people should act and be. They were just trying to document and record accurate information so it gives you a completely different angle

43:17 And they wrote what they saw, in most cases. Or from reliable sources so yeah we don't have that very much anymore and that's why when you said there is nothing else like what I do on the internet I take that as a big, big compliment because I'm so happy that you noticed that because I don't feel that there is anything else on the internet that shows you. Because most people...I'm not going to mention names but I could rattle off 40 right now they make it up as they go. They don't show in a book printed before World War II. Most historians of today have never ever held a history book printed before World War II in their hands

44:02 They never even held a book, a history book before World War II. They just assumed that everything after World War II is all this is our history this was correct and that's what they go by but whoa wait a minute wait a minute look at here look at these books and that's kind of what I did with it's a play on words my searching for Thanksgiving It really shows you how the history books get twisted as time goes along That's really...I use Thanksgiving As a focal point to show you how history has just gotten so twisted. And then you can apply that really, to many more of my subjects." Yeah, it is great what you do because you take these old sources that they really don't want anybody to know about anymore and You propel them and immortalize them by putting them on the internet Which almost nobody's doing because nobody even goes after these old old sources They don't have the money and they don't have their resources And they don't have

44:59 the time. They count up a researcher, oh yeah I gotta get on Google and that's what we'll talk about later with the giants. I know you wanted to touch some on that but we'll get into that later but yeah your right, people aren't going to take the time to scan a book printed in 1600 or 1700s and show you what this guy says and then show you what they print today that is completely different They don't want you to know. They want everybody to be in step and in line. And for people who aren't familiar with you or your collection, can you give us some details about the size and scope of the artifacts in your collection? Some of the contents of it? Well, you can see I don't have myself... Let's see hang on. I think I only have here one artifact. Only have one artifact

45:49 But my neighbors and my close friends have like hundreds, so I don't really need them. So if i'm doing a video or something, I will borrow artifacts and I want them stored at different places. I used to have a bunch of artifacts...I had a devastating fire back in 08 that could've been a conspiracy? I don't know but I had 15 pieces go up in smoke And two ancient coins that were worth probably 50 grand apiece and uh..go up in smoke I've only got one artifact here now, and it is so absolutely incredible. I could never ever get rid of it because it crosses so many angles. It's the largest piece of calcite that anybody has ever seen and it glows in the dark and its just an absolute spectacular artifact. Wow! Where'd that come from? Illinois. The Illinois case here. Gotcha And it's absolutely outrageous but

46:43 I don't consider my collection to be artifacts as far as me collecting and what i collect a collective cycle pd set, add fluorescent phosphorus minerals more so than anything else i'm not world class mineral collection that i don't even talk about you know nobody's interested in rocks. You know, unless geologists scientists etc. I do have a...I live out in the middle of very remote region out in the middle of nowhere and there's no reason to come and rob me because nobody wants a bunch old books or a bunch of rocks so you know beyond that but now I do have four boxes of replicated gold pieces I've got maybe

47:28 120 pounds of replicated gold coins, medallions bars and ingots that I got from the state of Indiana that they got from Jack Ward that him and Russell Burroughs had made. years and years ago, which is pretty spectacular. I mean you can see a lot of those on my Facebook site which is Illinois Caves the Illinois Caves on Facebook You can see a bunch of artifacts. You can see a bunch of reptilian pieces there. You can see a bunch of decipherments there and Extremely obscure ancient languages. I mean not like Just extremely obscure ancient languages

48:07 Well, that's the thing. There seems to be quite a few languages the mainstream doesn't acknowledge your work touches on that a few times but as far as lost civilizations That these languages might have come from of course We talked a little bit about Atlantis which would definitely have been one of them But have there been any other cases of loss civilizations that you've come across that have intrigued you? I don't think there's been a loss civilization that hasn't intrigued me. They were digging in Ohio and it was 90 feet down in the ground where they came, in the bend of a river for some reason I've got one of my books from the 1800s here, I think is printed 1831 when they came across like a log cabin that had two infants in it and a man and a woman twisted together evidently they were making love

48:55 Poitis. Okay, or sleeping with their legs between entwined and just you know mud or something landfall landslide something just crushed them in that position Which means whatever happened happened Instantaneously yeah And that's what my take is on a lot of ancient history is it happened? instantaneously. I believe that, you know it is my... now i'm going to give you my opinion on some things but like the Grand Canyon? I don't believe that it took millions and millions and millions of years before..I believe it was formed in just a matter of seconds! And I'll tell you this- I was at a point in Alabama one time looking through a large canyon in my binoculars and I was looking well couple miles away a cloud came in and a bolt of lightning hit a rock

49:43 And that rock exploded. That rock exploded out into the canyon, and several trees that were above that rock all fell and slid into the canyon all at once. And that was a big change in the landscape. Same thing with Lake Titicaca. I believe that Lake Titicaca was down closer to the surface at one time maybe even some kind of ocean portal? And then boom! Just shot 13 thousand feet straight up into the air in a matter of seconds. And then boom, there's nothing left. The human body can't take it. Can't take landslides, can't take being crushed, can't take being frozen... and same thing with some of these fossil finds that they have like in the Rockies, what Green River Wyoming where all the fish, thousands of fish fossilized in stone and their fins are excited!

50:31 Whatever happened happened instantaneously and I'm a cataclysmist. I believe when the big guy upstairs gets tired of it He wants to change it he just flicks it right off So we were talking about this agenda that occurred largely Ramping up after World War two and it changed a lot of things from these old sources What are the biggest manipulations you see? what are the biggest differences in some of this old material as compared to what we have now what they leave out is What they leave out such as the Giants, okay? And you got a lot of people that are real so heavy into giants right now It's like the Giants now or jump on the bank that giant bandwagon Everybody you got this guy's an expert on giants. Okay

51:16 Well they got all their information from Google or Wikipedia. They never read a book about giants, or now maybe they have and oh man, they've read somewhere there's a reference to an old book in the 1800s. All of the books I had from the 1800s had giants in them all over the place! My dad had books on I wrote books on giants back in the 60s, and then of course I grew up on Frank Edwards' works. There's giants in there. Charles Fort writes about giants. William Corliss in the 70s and 80s wrote about giants but none of these… None of these guys were ever interested in giants until they hear somebody else mention it. That's the thing about even the little people, even little people! It goes against the grain of Darwinism theory of evolution and that's what they want everybody to believe and I'm going to say it just straight up- I believe anyone who believes in a theory of evolution is absolutely blind and ignorant because they don't include

52:13 things that go against it. Like little people, I can take you out to a place in New Mexico and show you entire villages that are ancient prehistoric and all the doors are like 22 inches tall! Really? I mean just right into the cliff! Well excuse me foxes and gophers didn't build that. And I can't see any humans building and wasting so much time. And you look inside them, and they're like little households in there! Well okay... But if it's not included in the Darwinian theory of evolution which all this, oh I got so many ancient fossil books and dinosaur books and its all evolution evolution evolution evolution. These guys aint go a clue. They don't have a clue. And I will debate any of them anytime anywhere

53:00 They better have their act together because I've got all of their books. I've read an underlined mind. I know what they say, so it's so easy to crush an evolutionist because the only thing that evolutionists know is what they see on a one-hour program on discovery or what they've been taught in school and college. You know? Homo sapiens... And this and that. Well where are the bones?! Oh! They don't exist, we'll make them up. Oh no! Here you got this species here. No, let's include this species, lets include this species because as you said yourself I am surprised that right now with Brian Forrester, who does a lot of work down in Peru with the elongated skulls.

53:42 that they're even allowing him to get so much notoriety because these elongated skulls, they're natural. Well that's a completely different human species! Okay look at the Calaveras Skulls. Look at what they found 500 feet deep in the ground in Calaveras County California and then somewhere in Utah under 11 feet of bedrock they found modern human bones with modern human teeth Okay, okay. Well let's just throw that out! Let's throw that out. That doesn't match our theory. Anything that doesn't match it... So you got a lot of people that are just totally ignorant stupid and blind and that's what I'm saying about anyone if you're out there and your listening and you believe in the theory of evolution we all came from monkeys It is not your fault. You need to do some more research. You are falling in step because it has to do with me

54:31 mindset of, oh well my great-great-great-great-granddaddy was a gorilla. That means that I'm the descendant of the gorilla." It takes away a spiritual seed and that's what they've done. They've dumbed down... The dumbing down of America worked far better than anyone ever dreamed Yeah, I can't argue with that. So it is interesting that you grew up with all the stuff so normalized giants normalize the hollow earth idea not a big deal Is there anything? similar to The Giants or maybe other humanoids from our past That you've known about that have yet to be as trendy as the Giants Well my father was it like I told him my father was into flying saucers UFO's he had those books around so yeah, I guess your question is if your

55:18 probing to see if I could maybe predict the next trendy issue. Let me think for a second, let me think for a second...I believe that ancient buried cities is going to become more in vogue. Buried cities are going and And eventually, not only giants but human skulls. People are going to realize at some point even the scientists no matter how dumb and stupid the scientists are and no matter how ignorant blinded they are They're going to have to...and especially the anthropologists They're going to have to accept the elongated skulls

55:56 These strange, strange skulls that they found out in the American Southwest. I mean, I show several of them and these books are printed in the 1800's! Can you imagine having a skull like that? Trying to get a book deal printed today's time?! Right...it wouldn't happen. Oh no no he has got to be homo sapien sapien sapien sapiens but she is not! They're not. And I'm not so sure about the star child skull, you know? Like there's a bunch of them in Mesa Verde and there were a bunch of them in Missouri. They found a whole cemetery of them in Missouri! So these are different species of humans and I have to say that Bill Nye the stupid guy he goes and says oh no all humans are the same species

56:46 Okay, the blacks, the Chinese, the Caucasus, the Native Americans. Everybody's the same species I just want to make a point there are two species of metal art in North America one lives on the east side of the Mississippi and one lives on the west side. I think there's a few of the easterns on the west side, they are two species of metal art. They are the same size, they're the same color in every way you know what the only difference is? Their song. The way they speak is the only difference, and they're two different species? Come on! And you're not saying that the Chinese man is different than the black man and everybody's one species? That is just absolute stupidity. Stupidity. I would just love to have the opportunity to chew some of these scientists to pieces. Chew them to pieces- eat them for breakfast. Send them home with a spank on their fanny and crying.

57:46 Well, I would like to see underground cities get more play. I know...I've gone through the Chronicling America website, the Library of Congress where they put all the old newspapers online- I don't even know why they let us have that resource but you type in underground city and you'll get dozens and dozens of results from the early 1800's a lot of times in conjunction with those giant skeletons but they'd go down and find these huge chambers all across the underside of America it's interesting that's the word we're using, is huge. And the second word we're using is deep. We're not talking about just down below the sewage level okay? We're talking you know 50-60-70 feet deep and that's what they're finding in Egypt and some of the stuff they are finding here

58:35 country today. Man, so time has just flown by I know i've asked you a lot of questions we've covered a lot of ground before we get to wrapping up and giving out your links and places where people can follow-up on you I wanted to give you minute is there anything that we didn't discuss that you'd like to get out the listeners? Anything of interest that you just want to convey? I got a lot new stuff coming out always going be some new material I just released two videos on ancient coins Because I've been collecting coins for over 30 years. A long time, or whatever but i've got some other videos on the drawing board

59:12 And, you know some of my coins... like the ancient coins they're not just for ancient coin collectors and dealers. The novice can watch them and follow them and not feel stupid You're going to learn about ancient coins and you'll know everything! You will know everything about ancient coins by watching Ancient Coin Vault 1 & 2. From that I'm probably gonna have a couple more. I've got a lot of videos online that are absolute intrigue phenomena and a lot of just actual things that happened to me, that I can relate and I can show you. And a lot of it has to do with what I've come across in all my totes. I've got two barns full of totes that I'm just going through them and okay there's that book, I haven't seen it in 10 years. It's just finding the right books and putting together a video on them. Sure now so before we do go remind people of your website and your YouTube channel

1:00:06 The YouTube channel is Harry Hubbard and there's all kinds of stuff there. The Facebook is Illinois Caves, our website is illinoiscaves.com and the site that you can buy two of my books or access articles that I did years ago that are now free of charge that go with my books is alexanderhelios.com Right on. Well, it has been great talking to you I know you've got plenty more up your sleeve and hopefully we can do this again sometime but until then take care of yourself man Hey thank you! Thank you! I've enjoyed talking to ya

1:00:42 And I want to just encourage your listeners, if they would subscribe to the Harry channel because we're trying to get more subscribers. We're trying to go over a thousand. Right and you're at 750 right now so i don't think there's any problem with the size of this audience in getting to 1000 it should be pretty easy Thank you. And there's plenty of other stuff on YouTube with other people who have embedded stuff that I even don't show, there's other stuff and interviews and videos that I don't even have control over but they're good. Keep it interesting! I'm sure people will keep tuning in. Thank you thank you and hope to talk to you again too soon. Will do man. Alright thank you. You got it Have a good evening.

1:01:24 And boom goes the dynamite, my friends. Man I have got to say...I loved that show! I love love love those strange ancient maps and i've never met someone who knows so much about them and the map makers themselves The Bargos Islands are fascinating most people who have checked out maps that show a hole at the top of the pole will have seen these islands Details are always scarce but Harry had some decent tidbits to relay I'm not sure. I don't think i've ever heard of Friesland and that just blew my mind Why is there this well-defined island with city names and a capital, but it's not in the history books? And there's no information in modern times! That's why I like the Hollow Earth idea so much This idea that there is a ton of mystery left out there A ton more to explore just beneath our feet So something like a phantom Island is fascinating for the same reason

1:02:17 Definitely hop on Harry's YouTube channel and check out that ancient map collection. Tell me if you've ever seen anything like it, I'd be pretty surprised but...I'm a nerd for exactly this kind of thing! Harry of course is into all sorts of areas but i like that he seeks out old hard copy sources pre-World War II sources as he says And he's right! He clearly has gotten a lot of great info from them that just isn't available anywhere else today Largely about the Grand Canyon which was a big part of the plus show so much. Untalked about there plenty of artifacts to report all hidden, that's a great chunk of information I've been wanting to get a guest on to talk about the things they found at the Grand Canyon region for quite some time but it just isn't in the repertoire very many people

1:03:05 Anyway, I'm glad we could finally talk about it. But what really put Harry Hubbard on the map originally was the Illinois Cave Saga? I think this is so wild that apparently the lost tomb of Alexander the Great was found in Marion County Illinois after they came up to Mississippi in ancient times Lots of gold artifacts have been found there aliens reptilians everything in between The fact that it's there at all is pretty amazing and when I looked up Harry originally After a plus number had suggested i get him on the illinois cave story came up and it totally all came rushing back that i heard about this years ago, add thought. It was just amazing but when i was talking to him about coming on he mentioned that is talked about the ellen or caves then hundreds of times in hundreds of interviews and there's so much more worth talking about that he's researched over the year so we went in many other areas first

1:03:57 We had to hit his bread and butter in the second hour besides it's gonna get updates on old stories and i really wanna go there i don't really don't care if i get arrested i just gotta go see that got me thinking about a higher side explorers group i mean maybe something. For the plus forums, but whether I can go or not there's a lot of stuff with exploring here in the states and we could have little expeditions to go check some of it out right? Maybe post something in the forum and if three or four like-minded people are around you could all meet up and do some exploring. Fuck it! I think that'd be pretty awesome You know, I got some messages recently from people that were afraid i was getting away from the weird stuff but worry not. You should be confident that THC will never change in any major way. I've seen too many shows I love go way off the reservation and go irrelevant

1:04:48 And sure, we'll evolve I guess. I don't want to do the exact same shows over and over again but i'm very conscious of these sorts of things and I love the weird Ultimately, I'd like to get this show so dialed in that we have one practical geopolitical global conspiracy current events show a month One expose on a particular group family or company that type of thing One about magic and things in that realm of even possibly self-improvement one about cryptids or aliens of the hollow earth and one about science or medicine conspiracies. That would be my dream but I can't even get a schedule set so this kind of fine-tuning is probably a bit lofty, i recognize i could balance better but don't ever think im gonna completely get away from this kind of thing sometimes these really

1:05:38 strange niche areas, they need to advance a little before I can really do another show or we're going to be hearing the same coast-to-coast bullet points all the time and we gotta avoid that. Nobody wants that so don't ever think I have abandoned high strangeness. I just want there to be some substance If I find a field to be stagnant, it will take some time before I can find a researcher with the unique angle. And worry not, because I've been doing it for quite some time. But that does it for me! Do subscribe to Harry Hubbard's YouTube channel Let him know we have passionate listeners so that when I ask him to do it again perhaps he'll be inclined to say yes Plus he works hard on this stuff and it kind of sucks to feel like nobody is tuning in I've known that pain believe me let's get them over a thousand subscribers though He's not asking you to buy a book or download a rental of his movie for $799 He just wants you to check out the result decades of work

1:06:37 and blood sweat and tears so let's make the man's day. I think we could easily get him to 10,000 subscribers but we'd need a decent amount of participation there but also let me know if you'd like to go deeper down the rabbit hole with Harry and i'll get him back on your feedback is kind of important right? But until that day, we're gonna call this meeting of the Midnight Society closed. And it's your move Smithsonian whitewashers and crafty concealers of our mysterious world... Your fucking move! Lucid dreams are so vivid, cause you go to bed at seven And your brain comes alive because you hate your nine-to-five You wake up with a dread and make sure your cats are fed Did your brain talk to a ghost who moved your coffee and toast As you listen to the higher side chats

1:07:31 You get to your desk and your boss says it's a mess And your soul slowly grows To a place where nothing grows When you think he's not around, you insert a SETI sound The OM says turn it down and you say It's just the higher side chats Oh do you think you'd be invited? To Bohemia Grove. To a Bilderberg club Do you think you'd be invited by a Rothschild to a party on a submarine Diving down, to the center of the earth To the Marianas Trench Your teeth begin to clench from the sulphur-y estenche The mask you're given doesn't fit Cause your not one of them

1:08:27 Starting today, you'll make plans to get away There's no one to hold you down and the what-ifs start to drown Then you wake to the glare of a cofluorescent stare And the light winks at you cause its life is almost through But it's holding on to quit time just like you It's time for the High Side Chats! Hey guys, thanks for listening to the first hour of The Higher Side Chats podcast with me Greg Carlwood. If you don't know there is a second hour to all the episodes we do around here generally were able to get a lot deeper into the topics and ideas that our guest is about so if you enjoyed what you've heard from THC for free consider signing up at the higher side chats plus dot com to get the second hour of the five shows I put together each month