Grant Cameron | Ufology, Consciousness & The Alien Apports

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00:51 Which means you'll unfortunately never hear my voice again. In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. I'm Greg Carlwood These are the higher side chats. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, people! From sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and it seems like since the start of this wild ride humanity has been interacting with something else of a higher intelligence just beyond the physical dimension. Call them spirits fairies gods or aliens but it's clear that something out there knows a lot more about reality structure than we do

01:51 Are we on some human energy farm? Is there an ancient predator hunting us from the shadows of our liminal spaces? Might there be a group of beings trying to use crop circles and psychedelic encounters to nudge humanity into understanding that it's all consciousness, man. There are many thoughts and theories as to what this all is, but in our modern slice of the human story... Well, today's powerhouse guest Grant Cameron is one of the most knowledgeable researchers dedicated to the UFO space, disclosure discourse, the true nature of the phenomenon and the key to understanding it consciousness.

02:37 Grant became involved in ufology in May 1975 with personal sightings of an object which locally became known as Charlie Red Star. The sightings occurred about 25 miles north of the Canada-US border, with hundreds of people seeing objects at the same time during a prolonged flap of sightings In past years Grant turned his research to the involvement and actions of the presidents of the United States on the UFO problem He's made 20 plus trips to the National Archives and most of the various presidential archives looking for Presidential UFO material. Eventually, he stopped trying to break the government and deep private cone of silence and felt that the ones who really know the phenomenon best are the experiencers which led him to focus on that curious interplay between this high strangeness and consciousness. He's written several great books along the way had his own radio show called The Cameron Files and produces a lot of content on his YouTube channel

03:32 Links and info about him can all be found on his website, beyondpresidentialufo.com And it is a real pleasure to have him here The legendary deep diver UFO question dissector and bright mind for our troubled times Grant Cameron my man Welcome to the higher side Well thanks Greg your intro summed it all up there's nothing more to say i like it and thanks for taking the time i am a big fan of the work you do and im always impressed with your recall when it comes to the vast material you've studied in spoken about, i think so many people who look into the ufo alien questions start with that nuts and bolts stuff and if they stick with it long enough they realize its weirder than that and consciousness needs to be better understood truly unlock the UFO mystery.

04:17 And of course, your road is a long one. But maybe you can elaborate for the unfamiliar on how your understanding and research path has evolved from where it started to where you are now decades later? Okay so it all starts for me back when I'm...I guess a late teenager. I'm interested in the work of Edgar Cayce. I studied it went to the institute that they have there in Virginia Beach Was that university was kind of lost the university trying to figure out how in heaven's name you gonna make any money out of this nonsense you know calculus and stuff i can't figure why it was there. And then in nineteen seventy five that's when things change for me had four major events my life no one was nineteen seventy five so,

04:58 You described in the intro there was a flap of sightings that occurred at the town called karman manitoba and actually we were just back their last couple days ago. First time i've been back in what been back once in forty years but when back there is a documentary film crew out trying to do it documentary on itself, i live in winnipeg manitoba canada which is a fairly big city and we should drive around the city And do nothing just drive around and the stories of this sighting stuff started to happen in manitoba. And start it about february nineteen seventy five and i said to my friend is that why we go out see what they're looking at, and he said ok will go and whenever went and then in may of nineteen seventy five what happened is a local tv station. The cky tv station here was number stations out there trying to film the same

05:47 And they managed to catch the thing on the ground and the camera man as he was. The object is a miles on road i see looking down the road this thing is on the ground in its glowing up and it goes back down close up, And the night before they had almost got it on film and he decided i've gotta get someone films next time this thing, close up again i'm gonna shoot and almost like the whatever the intelligence you are is it said a ready to shoot because as you push the trigger this thing jumped up in the air. And there was people actually very close to it on the ground and they thought it disappeared actually dropped about five thousand feet near in three frames of the film

06:25 And so this thing went viral they did a minute documentary on the same it created this flash frame one frame of film where the entire horizon lit up and when flying across the sky was. Flying in sort of a wave formation stop and the tv station nbc picked it out, jalan heinrich the major researcher came to try to get two copies of films that is the best not turn light film you ever seen with all these fourteen people there were involved in this filming of it and This one on the tv in winnipeg where i live and then i said my friend come on let's go see what you're looking at. And i was described as by the lottery ticket you know there is a chance you can when did you not gonna wait, so we went out there and figure your every else can see something when we got their nothings gonna happen so we went into town out of the town looked around or looking around it whatever you look at here and

07:17 Really couldn't you could see planets and whatever and I just like I don't know what they're looking at. And, I think Venus was setting at the time to look kind of weird but that can be with a looking so my friend says we'll go back in the town one more time we drove out we're gonna go back in the town one more time if we don't see anything let's call myself yeah fantastic been a total waste of time. So we are outside about a mile out of the city return go back west into this small town about two thousand people and it appeared from left to right And in the car nobody said is that what it is a wonder if thats everybody's right there is everybody just instantly knew this is what they were talking about was just so bizarre, look like it was alive it was pulsing and was red it was like a plasma type object. And we started bobbing up and down as moving very slow thirty forty miles an hour

08:03 And it flew right in front of the car down. I don't maybe it's hard to tell at night, you know how big it is or how far it is. But it appeared maybe a half a mile down the road right in front of the car and remember getting out of the car as the car was still moving and I was going behind a set of school buses that were parked outside the town. And I want to get to these school buses because he knew what's gonna get him behind his school bus so they wouldn't be able to see it anymore. And I just watched its sort of pulse and fly off into nowhere just flew off into the Northeast I was just Florida i grabbed all my friends as a man you gotta come see this thing tonight's later out there is twenty eight people that people are from all over the place out there trying to see this thing. And not experience, all my friends home but twelve thirty and no no stay stay gonna see this is a change your life is unbelievable i would just like you know i felt the urge of your eyes on this thing

08:48 And at 1230 my friends said, nah we're going home. We're going back to Winnipeg where hungry were gone for pizza and off they went and there was about eight people left when this thing appeared the second time. This time it was a completely different object it's flashing in the sky some kids that saw called of the bouncing ping pong ball is bouncing around in the sky and as I got closer to us the flashes got closer together and then it reappeared as this object that seen the first night red glowing plasma objects coming directly out of the second very low to the ground And i can see a sort of green glow on the backside is saying and it made this turn and headed off again into the northeast, remember standing there looking at insane wow that could be from another planet i was just before it actually looking at this thing in thinking like where's the thing from. And the car that was beside us remember the guy had a which is when nikon had the motor drives on the cameras came out

09:39 And the thing was flashing jumping around the sky and one girl couldn't see it she's freaking out i can see you crying away there people yelling swearing in jumping around is this things coming towards us. And yeah i could hear this motor driver and he's unloading the cameras of things coming at us and then they jumped in the car, add off they went to grab a flying and start chasing because you got actually catch up on the things going so slow And so that i was totally floored and I said well why is nobody investigating this because there had been a lot of sightings in there had been the film and stuff. So i started this pursuit try to talk to as many people in the town is a good and one point i had hundreds of people on the list. Is there any school everybody that say oh how do you know i saw something it's also told me something then is it, well give us really nothing and then they tell you was a flying saucer in the middle road or something some bizarre story ninja i wouldn't let you know and they would send me off to three eight four five other people not go to those people in this list are the bill with all these people were sort riding each other out

10:36 and i put it in a manuscript and i try to get published in tron or world big publishers are in canada. And some people read but nobody was really you know really not that interested in the local publisher here in winnipeg is a famous story, She should have done it and i remember she changed my whole life you wrote me a letter instead on the rejection letters that mr cameron, give me believe in this kind of stuff tell me am i unbelievers wow i was just floored nice okay that's it no more sightings this is total nonsense. Is there still ways to time in the book i described it these are kinda stories you tell your grandchildren when you're old and gray but really doesn't change anyway mine you have actually see it

11:13 So i give up on the sighting stuff and i said you know i remember that thing flying off the second night i said, i'm a young guy you know i really don't know that much time in the middle of country which is not an italian it's not significant. And i said i dont know what's going on but there's gotta be someone who knows what this is so i start to pursuit And i first go to the canadian government because there's a synchronistic event happens my father is a pilot for the canadian government. And it was somebody radar tech in his office who had seen you up when the carmen area and my father said all this ernie up guy wants to talk to you so i got talked to the guy any tells me story missus lightness sky really nothing significant and then he says, you know if your really wanna what's going on with ufo use should study what the canadian government was doing nearly nineteen fifties and i want white what do you mean you said i used to work for the program as it did

12:00 And there's only about six people in this program is one guy happen to be my father's office the synchronicity so i chased off to ottawa and the guy who run the program will burke brockhouse smith, and he had famously written a top secret memo and i didn't discover this after i started investigation. But that's where it starts start the consciousness thing started and i didn't realize until two thousand twelve but you wrote a top secret memo when he was a The head radio guy for the canadian government and they were negotiating FM radio frequencies with americans in he'd been down in washington for a lot of meetings. And when he was in Washington, he said I was interested to find out what's going on and so i realized if the smoke is gonna be fired start asking questions. And you said high level officials told him what was going on any races top secret memo and then a memo it says this november nineteen fifty flying saucers exist most highly classified subject united states there's a small group head about doctor van der bush are trying to figure out the modus operandi of the objects

12:58 And it's a tremendous significance to the americans and then in two thousand twelve i had this download experience were the next line of the document pops into my head, any says we're also told by american officials that other things might be associated with applying saucers such as mental phenomena. And significant part of that is nineteen fifty nobody ever talked to an alien at the first contact direct face-to-face contacts with aliens wasn't until about a week after detonation hydrogen bomb when adamski Williamson, these two guys were in the desert in California and they claim they've got this encounter with this being. And the being says you know you gotta stop the nuclear weapons and all that kind of stuff so in 1950 nobody was talking to aliens So the question came how did they know mental phenomenons involved? I mean nobody's even talking about aliens! And so I do that pursuit and I'm trying to find out In the United States who gave the Canadians information and it was this idea like

13:51 I'm trying to find the highest level person that i can is a high school person will know what's going on and i'm gonna find out who that person isn't try to figure out. What they know and so i discovered it was a guy who was in engineer working for the american military, would give me a lot of material to the canadians he said there been a crash in the west of united states and add data center briefings right patterson air force base and bunch of scientists like. Von braun von newman got with computers Bush all these high level scientists of the time had been invited and he said i couldn't go i was busy working on the do line is running engineering project for the do line in canada where they were picking up russian you know, launches missiles and stuff like that. And he was asked a question well your name all these people are dead anybody still might be alive this nineteen eighty three

14:40 Any said well is this one guy he was real arrogant guys you had a business like me in pennsylvania university and i got track down to be dr eric walker who's the former president of penn state university. Add fourteen honorary doctor degrees co-developer the home torpedo chairman of the board of institute for defense analysis top military think tank united states, guy and I didn't really talk to him. I was sort of ran a team of people and they said, I can get this guy to talk so give the guy the phone numbers and all this kind of stuff. And we had this discussion with this guy that lasted about seven years before he died. When he was confronted with the whole thing, he said yeah, I was at the briefing, So what? The guy went, What do you mean so what! This is extraterrestrials, this is the most important story

15:25 Don't get so excited you're up against the windmills leave it alone there's nothing you can do about it unless you have the mind of einstein, you not gonna get anywhere and we realize that this guy was talking in rhymes and riddles but he was telling us that this is for real and then i was really interested. And later on part of 2012 download with one of these expressions that doctor walker had given to somebody in one interview said guide from great britain was interviewing him and he said let me ask a question What do you know about the guy was asking the question like who's running a thing is there twelve guys in an international group who's actually in control of this subject me so let me ask a question we nobody has been.

16:03 And the guy said, well I really don't know. He said look unless you understand about ESP and how it works you will not be taken into the program very few people understand how it works and that was the second of this consciousness thing is sort of twisted me in 2012 where I just basically gave up on UFOs and said no its a consciousness problem. The third one had three things happened to 2012 first was the line from the Canadian government document second with Dr Eric Walker asking us About being the main thing in the third was a conversation that took place with. Ben rich used to run lock it's got works and always been rumored that any back engine stuff is being done by locking skunkworks, so ben richard around the program he made a comment in one lecture UCLA reset we now discover the technology take it home we've discovered mistaken equation and one engineer in the room was big you are close

16:53 confronted him as he was leaving the building and said, you're talking about this. I need to know. I'm interested in propulsion. How does this thing get here? How does it work? And he turned around and said exactly what Walker had said two years before. He said, let me ask a question. What do we know about ESP? And the guy said well that means all things in time space are connected. And he said that's how it works and walked out of the building. So that became my move away in 2012. I chased the presidents there was no real documents in the presidential libraries It was clear that even in nineteen forty eight is an hour got briefings on your phone but they're all done orally so there's really no paper trail to follow and you assume that the president must know what's going on but it appeared that they didn't have the full answer.

17:37 And so in two thousand twelve i'm watching colin andrews who invented the crop circle phenomenon in great britain came up with a term crop circles he's giving a lecture, add a big conference in phoenix which was the world ufo congress and. What is congress's where it goes from eight o'clock in the morning to eleven o'clock at night you don't go to all lectures you just start picking shoes which lectures and when you can eat lunch so call and answers giving this lecture i wasn't interested crop circles no sort of. Not for what was going on but i realize he was a major researcher well pay him respect or watch his lecture see what he got to say any talk about consciousness and crap circle,

18:15 and his contention was that 20% of these crop circles were being made by the intelligence behind the phenomena, and the other 80% were also being done. They were getting to hoaxers and putting ideas in their head to put this stuff down he had all these examples people who would hoax crop circles and would talk about sitting in your living room suddenly getting an idea to put this crop circle and they'd go into the field make a crop circle the exact crop circle that a bunch of women were in the same field meditating that exact pattern so when you're giving this lecture suddenly it was I wrote a book just recently called contact modalities where i look at seventy different modalities how do you get into the non local field and you can use hypnosis in meditation and psychedelics is always ways to get out of the conscious ego mind and bypass that and getting the feel, end the method i used all these years is so day dreaming.

19:03 So I'm in the lecture, I really don't want to be there. I'm thinking about, well, let's go across the river to library and maybe I'll go for lunch and I didn't want to be there. And I sort of zoned out. And that's when it happened. It happened instantaneously. And I described this to people this thing with people get these download experiences. And I wrote a whole book on where major inventions Nobel Prizes come from now. A lot of them come through this sort of a download or noetic experience. So I'm sitting there and it came instantaneously. It was like a bang! It was in my head and it was like Oh that's how it works and i describe people who haven't had the download experience the hardest thing to explain to people is the fact that when it happens.

19:41 You're being shown reality it's not like a good idea it's like oh this is for real this is more real in the world this is you don't check this you have to do anything this is how it works like had this absolute certainty that this out works. And that change my whole career then I started to move towards this whole idea of, the consciousness being part of this whole thing and in two thousand thirteen i was actually getting my first conscious lecture in phoenix And at the end of the lecture when you run the big phoenix ufo group said to me i still got a talk to pam and i said, Yes i thought well i must agree to talk this one that's good coming to my house on monday. She wants to talk to you so i don't know what is about and she's in her seventies comes to the house with partner, and she says what did stacy tell me i said i'm just a talk to us just ask it she sits down she starts his whole thing, i've been abducted i was in the field new york for there and i was in my diaper and she got through this whole thing all these weird stories here all the time from experiences

20:42 And she went on and then suddenly she dropped the bomb she says oh i was flying to craft last night what. Yeah i was playing the credit you're flying the flying saucer. She said yeah and i was ready to say you are absolutely nuts i mean i heard a lot of weird stories this is the craziest thing ever hurt and so i said try said they let you fly the flying saucer she said yeah flown three different models, add a set will he fly flight saucer if she said oh you do with your mind and that was real key to me cuz i started chasing experience years I got fifty people who have flown the flying saucer who claim that was cut off as i stop i want to interview you start from the beginning go to the end tell me i've got. US air force retired colonel out of los angeles san francisco i gotta seven for seven united airlines pilot all the people and,

21:29 Nobody says anything different they say i wish it's a dream is that everybody thinks its a dream tell me your dream and no tell the story about going to craft, and there somebody behind them don't know whether it's humans or weather it's aliens and their standing in the craft and. They'll get a voice and say ok go ahead do it and like the retired us first colonel said I said i don't know what to do you know to do just doing and he went in there was a panel are you put his hands on this panel. And he said something is lying the crap and whatever you thought it's what the crap did, And he described this, he took one hand off the panel and was waiting for this thing to stall. Then nothing happened then he took his other hand but left it about a couple inches off the panel and he was still flying the craft so that 50 people everybody has said exactly same things like they're reading of a script you go in there they tell you to do this you either put your hands on a panel or you put it on something on walls are black on the wall where you put her on a ball and you become one with the craft

22:28 The craft is alive and you become one in whatever you think is what the crap does a new year get bizarre stories where the one guys. They asked him where would you like to go any say i'd like to see them okay way for distance any said within one second, start of the window opens up this order crafters transparent on one side and one second he said i'm outside the milky way looking back at the milk away so that's when are really started realize that this was Where I had to go and then in 2017. I had another download experience again i'm walking so i do a lot of walking walk at least ten miles a day and listen to podcasts. So i'm walking downtown is the six mile walk and im about, two miles into it an all the sudden it comes in for anybody's had these downloads you know pick up the pan start writing this is that this is real material and so its very cold out of technical off i got this piece of paper and i'm writing and stuff is coming into my head 123 the stuffs coming in what did is

23:26 Is it this or is it that? So in your introduction you talked about this consciousness thing. So, it says to me...is the world made out of little nuts and bolts? If it is well then that's one world and consciousness will emerge from nuts and bolts but if the worlds made out of consciousness then its a whole different world than matter comes out of consciousness. Is the world random? If it's random then thats one world but if it's a pattern then that's a completely different world Is there one light if you're one life that's one world with certain rules but it is multiple lives and it was like you think its this is actually this is actually the opposite and had about sixteen or seventeen things came into my head. And then the feeling went away at the pan away paper waste are walking again start again, add ended up with twenty four different things and it was these sort of like what is reality so that has been my chase say in the last ten years to look at everything in terms of

24:21 How does this fit into reality how does reality actually works and it's the idea that we go to sunny school where you go to science any school, we got a lot of garbage in our head that we just believe because someone told us and rebuilt server world view. And i'm very much in the right brain left brain thing that the left brain will build this worldview and once it builds at worldview it will not change until you have one of these experiences were you have experience so its be Thing weather it's knowledge or whether its belief and most people think it's knowledge is actually believe and only through the experience do you actually get the knowledge like you do through. What are these download experiences that sort of how it happened inside gotten into a lot with contact modalities i wrote cuz i had the modality of this download type thing so i looked at seventy different modalities,

25:11 So you get all these different things and everybody sort of builds a religion out of theirs. Somebody will say, oh hypnosis is the way to go and they spend all their time on hypnosis and this is the way to go some people do psychedelics And I looked at all the modalities that I basically came conclusion it's all about same thing consciousness is primary It's all goes back to consciousness and all these different modalities To get into the non local field are just different paths to the same end result I'm with you there and that is a great summary of along long journey. And the mine aspect is what i wanted to focus on this great quote of yours we say it's most significant that in nineteen forty seven,

25:53 on day one when this thing starts, they realize there's a mental aspect and realized that we would learn later. That's how you fly the craft. You use your mind. And this is one of the most provocative areas to me that we have The Big Crash in 1947 We have Project Paperclip going on between 1945 and 1959. And we have The MKUltra project starting right there in the early 50s and it's such curious timing. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for what they did with MKUltra and Artichoke, but do you think this UFO tech or the UFO alien question is at least partly what drove the MKUltra mind-cracking research? It may have been that I think the group is very limited in terms

26:41 How many people actually know the consciousness connection like you get tom de la who's there to the stars academy where he goes to lock it is allowed go into a locket skip and he's talking in this head scientist locking system. So i think that works that's all i want how does work any guesses about yourself and had been associated with doctor stephen grier early days time to long and said i think conscious as well, add then they had side to side now your talk and he said that's always had scientists wonder talk about for forty five minutes Because in nineteen forty seven the story is sort of changed as we went through the years as we got more witnesses that everybody serve. Add the idea that they had crashed and there was four dead aliens and then later on it became known that was probably more probable, that there were three dead aliens in one live alien and that's what the answer to that nineteen fifty question was will hide the americans know to tell the canadians that their with mental phenomena involved because nobody talking daily

27:35 and the idea would be that they had a live alien in all of our parts from the library was that he was talking people's heads so they knew this sort of thing new consciousness with something that they had to crack but i think what you're looking at, was not so much do ufo aspect but the idea that if you can. Get in somebody mine like this alien was doing then you can get into your russian leader the chinese leaders head input stuff in his head and stuff like that so they went down now but they realize in nineteen fifties that Consciousness with something that you could manipulate and thats the problem i was had with them is that they're always trying to turn it into some sort of good vs evil thing and we're gonna use this to build weapons out of it, add most of these messages get from the intelligence say no you going down the wrong road you not gonna get anything in fact there's a story told. Some of the biggest people that i think know

28:28 In the white world but what's going on people like help put off jack valet and kid green who is that the CIA was a control officer for the remote program. And in nineteen eighty state actually had a meeting of famous meeting this room at the denny's restaurant they said, there's lotsa garbage is not stories here how do we know what to believe and i came up with what's called the course story why don't we know for sure and their conclusion was number one We're being interacted by some sort of intelligence number two we've got hardware. Recovered hardware and you unable to back engineer and that's what i believe so we may have had a craft since nineteen forty seven but we can't turn it on we have no idea like using your thumbprint to open up your cell phone, you need consciousness to turn this thing on so they got bodies the got crash but they still really don't understand how that. Consciousness thing actually works

29:22 And yet the highest level guy that i've dealt with is a guy running around and he's been with the sea ice since nineteen eighty three years remember to be the guy that briefs trump on ufo type stuff. Very high level guy i'm not sure if you're with the c.i who is with anymore but he basically talks about all the stuff that's being done on anti gravity and all that kind of stuff, he basically says it's a techno scam and this whole idea so you may have some research weather to remote viewing researcher whether its mk ultra stop but we always think they got all figured out in fact they're having a very hard time

30:01 Doing it and he started talking about portals, and I'm thinking well. Why is he is? He trying to throw us off with this portal thing and I now sort of conclude that they really don't have any sort of technology anti gravity technology or in this case stories are flying to different planets is not i think that's true that they don't try to get money from congress so there in front the senate intelligence committee and services committee in their saying all these aliens could be a throw these uaps can be threats and we have to do something about this, and we can build weapons and technology stuff like that but they really don't Understand pendolphe is the only guy that keeps leaking this story about the portal and the portal gets into this consciousness thing, that it's all a consciousness. And the idea that they're popping in and popping out if they come into our reality and they can become physical so they can become like a physical craft

30:53 Almost like a port city ever studied reports most experiences and sixty percent of all experience you claim to be on board the ship will talk about these apartment i study these great length where they'll say it's a little. You have an experience were some sort of drops out of the ceiling or something moves one place in the room to another place to go, can i got next room yeah sure come back with a whole collection stuff that is appeared from nowhere and its that kind of thing that My interpretation is that whatever the intelligence is it lives in the field where are the ghost live and where the spirits living fairies and all i can stop its all the same thing and get there able to manifest into the physical world, end one prime example of that i started do a lot of stuff with.

31:37 What's the answer with physical sales people and if you're familiar with the whole new york times ufo thing leslie cain is the woman who wrote the main article for the ufo thing she's also in a physical medium ship and she tells this story about being an. A couple of physical services where she sitting at the table and it looks like waters coming up over top of the table and moving towards her, flowing across a table in all this and his hand appears out of nowhere and its right in front of her and she's able to feel the hand is warmer than regular hands and it softer than human hands you can feel like fingernails knuckles whatever and then the hand bangs twice on the table and just sort of manifest. And that's the whole idea is that what ever i think this phenomenon is coming in

32:21 is able to manifest in the 3d and it's lowers its vibration whatever it's doing pops in and it's able to pop back out. The mind thing, is the same sort of thing there's an experiment if you're talking about mkl they've done a lot of experiments but How far they've gotten the one that i thought was very significant there's a guy but it will this guy just get green you used to run life sciences at the cia and use to run what was called weird desk at the ci so, did they had three different guys are the land all is the first guy he was the guy that briefed president. Truman on the Cuban Missile Crisis, he ran the photographic interpretation lab for all the U2 SR-71 and spy photographs for analysis. He was very interested in UFOs and this second guy was Kit Green and then later is the guy now who's Ron Pandoffy so Kit Green there is a discussion he has with the guy from Rendlesham Forest Jim Penniston and Jim says well you know why are you studying experiences what are you doing? And stuff like that...and he says

33:22 We're working on propulsion setup all your work and i'm supposed to get it you mean yes you crazy number couple of any survival maybe use the wrong word he said we're trying to figure out how does the phenomenon pop in. To our reality and papa just as quickly so they have that sort of idea and yet I don't think they fully understand everything i've heard like do you hear about the famous area fifty one, Dr davis who's actually experience yourself whose probably is an astrophysicist probably knows more about the black world of what they have what they don't have, and he described the fact that in nineteen eighty nine shut the program down they had.

33:58 Recovered saucers and actually shut the program down cuz they were getting where they couldn't figure it out so i put on the shelf and every seven or eight years to take off the shelf look at again. So that's the whole thing so you may have a little ins and outs about like their remote viewing program, they ran that and they had some success added And there may be some real black operation when they shut the remote viewing program down in nineteen ninety five, the big story was what is she i shut it down wasn't working and that was because the story was leaking somebody was about to do a box of the show the program down and said it wasn't working and cut off. And then every said it went to nsa every said welcome i'm there's no way to get shot program done like this and when to say, but how far they've gotten not really sure when it comes to the mk ultra stop there is a lot of. You know stories i think that are sort of exaggerated about what they're able to do that thinking come through your computer and get your mind i been added for forty five years i never experienced anything like that or they have this thing where people are threatened and killed and i go i mean thats fourty five years

34:57 never been, and I went after the president. I went after these high-level CIA people and wrote about them in books and stuff, and I'm not even an American man if they want to knock me off they could knock me off anytime! I've never experienced any of that kind of sort of real sort of out there theories about the mind control and they can control you and stuff like that...I mean they may have it but i think that it's a lot of military bravado They're putting it out and people are bragging and stuff. I don't think they're as far advanced as some people think they are Yeah that is one of the more interesting conclusions you have made and that's contrary to those who think we've cracked all this tech, we have a secret space program. You think that they haven't made much progress at all and are still trying to get these little pieces of metal to levitate on a table?

35:40 And I'm torn because I could absolutely see how before all this Psy research and the exploration of consciousness, they had no context for mental phenomenon or controlling a ship in that way. And even once they had that understanding maybe it takes the highly developed mental mastery of a Tibetan monk to work with this stuff and if that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't been able to get very far. And I agree consciousness is definitely key but I am also interested in that recovered hardware the physical meta materials obviously a lot of people are talking about that right now richard dolan talks about. The reveals from his contacts and it bends light in a strange way some say has a memory to it returns do it shape when you bend it, i hear story about linda mollen how once having someone selling at four thirty five thousand dollars what can you tell us about the

36:29 qualities of what they have found that's physical and how much is of it? Is there dozens of pieces, hundreds of pieces. What do you think The canadians are actually getting material coming into canada from the americans i talk to, did you guy who is the metallurgist last time i said how much material do you actually handle any set times of it. And so they were looking at all this stuff i have a different view on the metal materials and i actually wrote help put off about this because help what office sort of the lead guy in terms of getting this stuff analyzing stop and i sent them i said hello this support materials

37:07 You had this stuff going on in nineteen seventy two and your lab with your gallery that you're a gal or the famous story told that they went for lunch at your mitchell and help put off go for lunch with your gallery any seating ice cream, add something his lip is bleeding bites down on something he pulls it out of his mouth. And edgar mitchell says where'd you get that from that's my air force pinner something that he lost in houston couple years before exit How did you get that thing? And it was just the front part of the pin. And so they go back to the lab and when they're in the lab, they're standing in a lab and Yuri Geller's in another room and all of sudden kinked behind them, they turn around and the back half of the pin is lying on the floor. So I said to Hal, come on Hal this is a port! You don't take a flying saucer or come across the galaxy and then little pieces start falling off the flying saucer. This is total nonsense

37:56 This is I call it the theory of wow and i think that a lot of what this says, is the intelligence is just trying to mess with us they want you go wow what's going on like why do ufo lights on them so you can see them. They don't need lights we don't have lights on our grass they do this kind of stuff so their dropping this material and so i said the hell i said. This has gotta be important here are they just dropping his very weird stuff and everybody's getting all interested in their they're looking at this kind of stuff, and what he said is that he was always very short in the way you replied. He said we'll analyze the material one step at a time so he didn't deny it was important material And that's what I say when you start looking at these pieces You'll find no two pieces that are the same They're all different pieces and they all have very very bizarre characteristics But I say that they're having this idea Oh if we can figure out how to

38:43 What is piece of metal is made out well then we can figure out how to build a flying saucer will know me they may have just put the piece of metal down and it's got these people all these weird properties in its one of the theory while things like, what lights on okay let's drop this pieces of metal that's gonna get the monkeys really thinking about what's going on trying to realize like you know physical realities would you think it is. Because these pieces are all over the place i was just at a famous case last week but this film crew we were at falcon lake manitoba Is the famous case in nineteen sixty seven where steven mccullough is a prospector is out in the middle of this forest and he's trying to find silver and you sitting there and this thing lands. Just two crafts,

39:23 They hover there and then the one lands and he's what's going on here so you walks over in the door opens up and you hear these guys talking in some strange language and he tries to talk all these different languages and it doesn't reply, and then it takes off any get burned so this is very famous case so we go out horseback a couple days ago. They're filming this whole thing but the thing was there was metal what people don't know where's metal found at the site as well and it would silver ninety five percent pure silver and five percent pure copper but had these very bizarre characteristics to it wasn't ordinary silver And the thing is, how did this stuff get in the rock? I mean did it drop this stuff or... and then you take a look at the piece that Linda Howe sold. This piece with the bismuth magnesium stuff where it's all layered and it creates this waveguide so they're looking at this stuff and then Tom DeLonge talks about oh do you get the electrons going across we can levitate this piece of stuff off the table and that is absolute confirmation! They don't get anything if they are still trying to levitate a little tiny piece of metal off the table

40:21 They've got nothing and that's what you start to see is there thinking that this is gonna be the solution and I say no I think this is going to be weird stuff that they're just trying to drop to get us because there's pieces all over place we were at the university of arizona in tucson. And we found a piece in the file james mcdonald files, from 1939 and again it was a very bizarre came out of the sky this guy so that look like a meteorite coming out of the sky in it embedded itself in his garden, and it is red hot they're all described the same thing when these UFOs drop this metal its molten when it drops and it's very hot and when it cools down The people grabbed this metal and they think they got a piece of flying saucer, we're going to build the flying saucer now. And he pulled it out of his garden and it looks like a spike with sort of around end on it bubbles almost like it was bubbling or still molten whatever. He grabs this thing and keeps it in 1960's gives it to his daughter who lives in Tucson Arizona This is when NASA was going to the moon and they have a lab in Tucson so she takes it to the lab and they have analyzed

41:21 same bizarre thing. It's 95% pure nickel, nothing out of the sky at that time and like planes that has that type of metal and then they cut off a piece off the end of it to analyze it and they discover there is a copper core in the middle of this thing so this is 1939 array. This was long before all these sort of stuff happens you get piles and piles and piles of pieces none of them are the same, they're all different, they're all very weird, they have weird isotopes I think it's the theory why just to get us to think about it is like a ports you know these things where they drop coins or strange things. And i think the mistake is to thank all we got this piece of metal,

41:59 we're gonna be able to build a flying saucer, because I'll guarantee you no two pieces are the same. And there's hundreds of pieces from all around the world and we even get some cases where...I did some articles and i said oh this stuff is being excreted out of these UFOs! One of the most famous UFO contactees is Governor Chris Bledsoe out of North Carolina who Warner Brothers is gonna do a million dollar movie on this guy's got some pretty bizarre stories he said no you gotta run doesn't it drips off the ufo and i said, what do you mean address how'd you know that you said what is this or came eleven feet off the ground flew across my driveway in this metal was dripping of the orb and scooped up all the metal and we've even got photographs at this medal and they take it now lies and oh what is this cool it's almost like crop circles why would you not just give them messages instead of doing crop circle because people are going to go and go.

42:49 My God, what is this? How did they put this thing down?" I always tell Linda how with the cattle mutilations. Why did they take the blood out of the cow? Why do they take out every single drop of blood out of a cow? Because if they didn't nobody would pay any attention to it. It's got to be really weird Why did you the bizarre cut marks and stuff like that? And why did they get the cow they fly off with a cow They've got it and they do the mutilation or whatever and then they fly back into the war zone and drop The cow from 100 feet up into the farmers front yard Why would they do that because they know people like Linda how and all other researchers are gonna Go and take photographs, and they want the photographs taken they want everybody to go what What the heck is going on? And then you suddenly realize that a lot of cattle mutilations, if not all of them are downwind and downstream from contamination or nuclear test sites. You start getting these patterns but what they're doing is it's almost like there was book called The Trickster and its the trickster phenomenon. It's the idea that people said to me oh it's not a circus don't make this into a circus I said yeah it is a circus

43:46 like Jesus Christ. If Jesus hadn't healed people, walked on water and risen from the dead you wouldn't know who he was. You do the trick you get people's attention and then you deliver the message Yes, man. I love all this stuff and that idea of weird plasma balls floating through the sky dripping strange metals is right up my alley And I know you mentioned the 70 modalities to get into that other state of consciousness and I agree We got to be very cross-disciplinary When it comes to looking at this stuff have you ever studied the claims of alchemists? Maybe they'd have some insight into some of the strange almost fused

44:23 but very pure metals because this is exactly the kind of thing they claim to be synthesizing in secret and a lot of their lore. And, uh, couple of them are emerging now more so than they used to and the things they have to say it'd be like man that's the kinda guy I would really love to analyze some of these medals any experience there? No i have any experience but i'm writing it down and check that out because that is true thats what you have to do if you have to find people who are on the leading edge, assume that they're telling the truth maybe deluded with whatever belief system coming up. That's only gonna discover things cuz that my whole left brain right brain thing where and i was sort of hammer science with this because neurology doesn't talk about this this is decided left brain interpreter that

45:09 It was discovered when i had this brain if you're familiar with the split brain research it was done by a guy after they won the nobel prize for brain research, restarted do these tasks where they would take the split brain people and they would send signals to right left brain you would be glad there corpus callosum because of this epilepsy thing and then the two brains are separated. And that was the first mistake people make the sale of the brand as is the brain does not know the brand doesn't do anything According to gizana got there could be potentially millions of independent modules in the brain, add is at least two brains and then all these dependent modules that all work together like cells in the body to perform a task it's not one thing doing this it's all working gather. And so what they would do if you send me signals to the right brain left brain and the left brain is the rational analytical

45:55 ego brain where the language is and the right brain is sort of like the female unity brain that gets to downloads and stuff like that. And when we can shut down the left brain, that's when the right brain picks up the signal and is able to bring it in." So they were doing these experiments where they would do stuff like...they would send a signal to the right brain and the right brain runs on the left side of the body and vice versa so they would send us a message to the right brain which can't talk and it will say pick up the coke drink the coke and so the left hand will pick up the coke and drink and then they would say to the person, why did you pick up the coke? So now that because the brains are separated. You're talking to left brain because that's where their voice is

46:32 The right brain knows what happened but i can't talk and the left brain is has no idea but the left brain. They call interpreter it's actually some words you could use for it to let me know and what does, when your world view shattered so when when u see something like someone you're gone through school and somebody comes up says oh i saw a ufo immediately There's a hole in your world view suddenly there's a massive whole air and what the left brain interpreter does it makes the situation. How old again it'll fill the whole immediately not say are you just imagine that you made it up, And this is what they found is that when they asked the guy why did you pick up the coke the left brain interpreter would immediately make something out. This is what people don't realize that the left brain rational break a lot of stuff comes out there is made up it's made by the interpreter its filling the holes in the world view to keep it consistent and so the person was there all i was thirsty or whatever and they would send me signals and get zeneca said, it was always wrong every single time

47:33 but it could pass a lie detector test and once the left brain interpreter made a decision as to bringing the world view back to the world you would believe before, you couldn't convince it. And that's where I say skepticism comes from. That's left brain interpreter. That's the skeptic saying oh I'm going to find an alternate explanation for this paranormal phenomena that you're talking about and I want to return it to the physical worldview where its random biological robots in a meaningless universe and it's all nuts and bolts and there is no consciousness since this is all nonsense And then they feel happy again, because the world is consistent. Their old worldview is back. So that's where I say when you start looking at the leading edge and these people who are on the leading edge if you understand what they're doing or not even understand it... If you start looking at what they're doing, you start to see patterns that they're basically doing the same thing because that's what happened with the contact modalities. I had my day dream modality where I had

48:24 And so I was very interested and i started to do research on downloads are suddenly realize all these musicians had download can i actually wrote a book with no musical background on where a lot of the songs come from in. I found it very important to keep in mind this left brain right brain thing that, People who are very creative are not the intelligent people is actually a study that was done me i just got determined study was along this longitudinal study ever done, where they take all these kids in nineteen ten they start looking at the top kids and california highest IQ kids hundred forty iq hundred eighty i q and up and if i don't absolutely not create of it all. The only had to know about prices and two people at one the nobel prize alvarez was one of them have been rejected by the study and so what you get is

49:09 very rational analytical people are not very creative to create a people are the ones you gotta watch same as experience so you see someone who's on the leading edge and u assume that what they're doing may have some truth to it and you start looking at nuts ready with modalities is i started to realize all its all the same thing there all doing basically same thing there during this shutting down but their rationale like brain weather through meditation or through hypnosis or psychedelics whatever and they shut that off to make the left brain interpreter and the ego and all that stuff go for coffee, and then we can work with the signal. The left brain creates a lot of signal i don't know is you can pick up the signals so the signal is there for everybody because were so much in the physical world where so much into our ego mind it was so much into rational analytical believing what we see that we can pick up the signal and saw these modalities are just basically ways

50:02 to reduce the noise so that person can pick up the signal right on will ask you this because this seems like a very strange way for our brains to be compiled and there are those researchers who talk about. Ancient engineering of humans the ancient aliens thing that we were no engineer or splice together in some fashion and it is interesting that our senses do filter out more than not they let in, almost like we have limiters on our perception or on our DNA. And of course it takes great effort to kind of get to those higher planes and access them. Do you think there's anything in there about potential genetic engineering at some point in the distant past? Maybe that relates to why we have such a hard time with this stuff or why these beings seem to maybe trying to be coaxing us into evolving further

50:56 Yeah, that's what I believe is that they are A lot of experiences you talk they'll say they're talking about the two strand twelve strand DNA and all that stuff that are altering our dna and what you see is, the altruistic thing. That i say whatever the phenomena yes i can guarantee it's gonna be a lot less physical new think it is to me a lot less spiritual new think it is and its not gonna have a hint of capitalism it says altruistic thing that there here trying to guide us along and again it may not even be being some if u get into real consciousness there is only one thing, there's no time and space it all one thing we are talking to ourself and we can create these sort of seemingly divisional things but it's all the one thing it's all connected like if you do five

51:42 my thoughts the dmt you end up in this sort of white world where there is no structure there's not none that kind of stuff and it's all one and it's all love so i'll go back to the same thing what you get with experiences they'll tell stories, doctor had just one interview with a guy news telling story said you know when I was a kid I was in this room and this being comes from later on his life. She's wearing awake he said its a bean but he knows it's female can't really tell just by the feeling you know since email and she's wearing this way and then he says she was the same one that was on board the ship who is teaching us how to levitate stuff and how to move stuff around with our minds. And i said oh yeah everybody describes it said ya everybody describes that

52:23 You get these stories of kids, they take kids when they're young and the reason they take kids when they're young is because when you are 25 years old it's a total waste of time. Your mindset is made all your biases are there and you need big rubber boots in a big shovel to dig down deep enough into somebody's consciousness to put any idea. You pick up kids when their very young that's when he start training his kid so all experiences people who have been on this ship they don't get taken at 25, if you say to them when did you have your first experience and when do you start to regress them? You find out they were taken when they were like 2 years old or 3 years old. They're called lifers it goes through their whole life and you need to get them before their mindset comes in so I know that answers your question but... They are coming in and helping doing a lot of stuff

53:08 But i again i don't think it's just aliens i think cuz i went across the modalities and you get the same sort of thing that people are like with the physical sounds which i think is a very important thing for people to study where u get people like. Tesla is a big one comes in a lot of physical experience sales things were there try to help us develop stop giving us ideas they're on the other side trying to help us so i dont think its just any tea thing i think me be our higher self that we can get in the field it's all are herself at all the one thing were part of the wanna spark the divine whatever you want to call it. And that is all moving and you need the left brain you need that physical, think because i could survive in a physical world without so it has this necessary component that you know you need to say oh there may be something wrong next corner the fear they all the stuff that the left brain brings into u and two

53:59 analyze things and stuff like that but we're sort of at the point now where the analysis is sort of overrun guy. And it's become soul left brain the world that weird maybe on the verge of actually destroying ourselves and then we got a balance with the female right brain which looks more at the one, that whatever you do to the planet you'd do to everybody else. We didn't believe that even in ecology doesn't go back a hundred years! The idea of ecology that we can before it was the biblical thing was take things and use them... You are the masters of this kind of stuff and so we were sort of using it up So this idea has been whether its the field that has brought us across this ecology idea And what you'll find with experiences is a lot of experiencers

54:43 are big time environmentalists or they're animal rights activists. It's almost i don't what the percentage be very high number of experiences who are vegetarians is very high, number of experience you had near death experiences thirty seven percent that's almost eight times the national average or experiencers will describe exactly what's described in your experiences a very close correlation between near death experiences and ufo phenomena that UFO people will describe being in the field and. Forty percent of all your experiences will say at one point during their experience they need the answer to everything in the universe and people who had been near death experience was a same thing or people who have our experiences fifty percent of them will say

55:31 They were healed by the phenomena either there somebody in the family was healed and fifty percent of them can heal people they claim another can you people near experiences goes from an average of eight percent in the average population is a big deal people, people who had near experiences it's seventy percent of people that near the experience is playing the other people. So you see these correlations and that's why I think it's all basically the same thing. It's just almost like Bashar, if you're familiar with the famous alien Chandler he says it's all just permission slips whatever you think works for you go for it and If you in the beliefs thing when you believe that you can get into it And you can shut off the left brain then you can do it But I believe everybody is basically doing the same thing It's just a different especially if you go to the fact that everything is consciousness

56:16 then it all goes back to this consciousness thing and you get in touch with it, and all the answers are in the field. You have all these dead people who are trying to help through physical mediumship stuff... And even when you get on... The one experiencer told me She was on board the ship and you get this connection with death on board the ship where people's dead relatives are brought up, talk to them or their dead dog is on the ship and stuff like that and they usually not very happy about it in the one woman is sherry wilde who there but to do a movie on her. She talks about being on the ship and Albert Einstein was on there, and Albert Schweitzer was on there. And who is the third one? Tesla was on there...and that was the girl in World War II who wrote this famous book. Anne Frank? Yeah! Anne Frank was onboard. And I said to her, and this is the whole thing about this, Is it consciousness or physical? So I said, Sherry let me ask you question You saw these people aboard the ship when you were 15 years old? She said yeah

57:10 I said can i ask you did they look physical just i know your god with this let me tell you what it may have been a real good hologram but they sure like physical to meet and see get these crossovers that are so bizarre but its, and thats what im trying to do now is put all the connections together cuz people get almost into one feel that's where has been entered disciplinary so somebody make it into say lsd is the thing and become like a lsd religion and thats all their studying they don't realize the correlations between other types of things And so I try to stay as wide as i can in looking at all the paranormal phenomena and trying to find you sort of similarities. That's what i find they're all very similar just are sort of like different names to them and people sort of turn them into religions and i think u gotta stay really white with this stuff and then the answers are pretty clear that

57:58 We are getting help from the other side whether it's spirits or dead people and you get this people describing you know where they're about to go in a car accident suddenly here their dad father brother has been wife give them a warning stuff like that, and that's the thing is bizarre world but it is teaching us what reality is about and that's my bottom line i'm really not interested in being able to do this kind of stuff I'm not interested in seeing UFOs or, you know even physical mediumship. I said to Kai Muga who was one of the top physical medium in Germany...I said well I'll come down and attend your seance and to watch." And he said no you're not coming to watch! You're coming to be part of it. This is the thing- I'm not really interested. To me its always been like a chess game that I was very good as a kid playing chess when I was very young. In elementary school I was playing in high school and to me it's like a chess game.

58:48 ultimate reality, how does this fit in? Put the pieces together and basically trust that people are telling the truth which I think is basically the bottom line. That people are describing what they're experiencing and they may have it all messed up in terms of their belief systems but you start seeing these real correlations then I think they do describe to you what ultimate reality is and how it works That's a great summary and I do love that data the survey data of the experiencers and what we can glean from that. And it is important to stay wide in looking at this thing, not drawing a ton of conclusions. And i also agree with you that at the highest level yes it is all consciousness. I've had experiences that crack that open but if you're being

59:30 eaten by a tiger or tortured in a basement or having your semen extracted on a spaceship. It's gonna feel very separate and I don't know how useful that it's all one higher understanding is in those moments and beings should be able to be as negative as people In the game we're playing on this level, right? They could have nefarious intentions. I know ultimately it's all consciousness but on this level of the game We play where we pretend that it isn't or were not aware of it What do you think the intentions of some of these beans are? Well that's where i get for from everybody i say there is no good and evil it all one thing its all neutral we put the stop so i'll give you two examples of what is the, abduction experience add these are your victims terrible they're taking us on board the ship. You take the free survey which looks at three thousand experiences and you see that only nine percent believe that the aliens that encountered rocky evil and ray hernandez was running this study

1:00:30 When back to them and said so why do you think they're evil is that cuz i scared the daylights out of me was an eight foot reptilian standing in my bedroom and he said thats it, add a lot of people soldiers lot of people do regressions so i asked. Like mary roddell's done three thousand regressions of your experiences at mary If you are grass all these people back to birth and us them at any point in the past did you read me a situation how many people would answer yes she said hundred percent. And so i ask kathy martin kathy martin is that nice of betty barney hill, So i said to her i said cat what do you say about this all contracting that basically we agreed everything is coming in here and she said i always thought about that she said so i actually had myself regressed, add actually heard myself the voice come out of my mouth and said i agree today.

1:01:18 And the other thing that I said, I had four major events. One of the major events I had was watching Dr Michael Newton and I have always been blown away by Mike Newton He's got 7000 regressions he invented the life-between life whole thing There's now 35 thousand regression and everybody says the same thing in these regressions is you can just it's like a playbook You can go through there and this is the whole thing where one of the documentaries who's being done? There's girls in Auschwitz and the guys filming it, and then she said oh this thing about the agreement to be in this situation. And he said that's the most inappropriate thing I ever heard my life but Newton is big on this whole idea that when you get down to it its all experience and that you learn from whatever they experiences and it's this idea that everything is experience and we like to play the victim we like to say where are the good guys and there bad aliens and there bad russians and there bad chinese and all were doing is changing now usually

1:02:13 used to be the Japanese were the bad guys and we dropped two atomic bombs so we can say that people will say to me, oh they aliens like they're abducting people. They're evil I say let me tell you what when they dropped the first atomic bomb and melt 100000 people into the sidewalk or if a firebomb Japan kill and cremate 80000 people in 2 nights alive Give me the alien a petition for the evil alien outside until then we have met the enemy and he is us we are the enemy where the ones that manifest and i say that all that is evil in the world and i maintain i've never seen any exception, all that is even when the world is mistaken belief in separation when you believe what i believe. That your different from me and i am better than u and you are my problem then i have the right to steal your stuff

1:02:59 and I have a right to kill you, and I have the right to get you as the enemy. And all we're doing is changing now." So it used to be the Japanese, then it was the North Vietnamese, they were bad guys, and only good gook was dead gook. We were dropping bombs, atomic bombs, wiping them out... Now suddenly they started making Nike runners! They are our friends now! What happened to evil? Did it evaporate? mistaken belief in separation that causes all evil and it's if you believe That everything is one then doing anything to anybody that is bad Is like taking a hammer and smashing your thumb. It doesn't make any sense, but people don't believe Theoretically they say oh yeah We're all one but yeah There's still separation and there's evil guys and we need to kill these guys mm-hmm well I think that's a reasonable response and a good example to illustrate it as

1:03:47 And so we started this talking about what these people have found the meta materials but also the bodies and then later we talked about how they're not physical because people are seeing things is cat people or mantis or grace well what about. Those bodies i mean didn't get green famously say that he couldn't get briefed into the alien autopsy program there some kind of body's out there aren't their, Okay, so the bodies yeah there are bodies. That's the whole idea that's the same thing as a port They come out of this spirit world and they drop these reports into our world So I would say the bodies are like a ports for example if you're into the fear thing when? You talking to somebody abduction you're gonna say did they scare you Did they probe you did it hurt were you really scared When I get somebody on board and they're talking I say let me ask your question

1:04:38 Did the alien have any clothes on? And they go, no. I say let me ask you did it have any sex organs and they go No thinking about it. No They didn't have any sex organs and I said don't think that's kind of strange and he'd go Yeah It's kinda strange and then I say if a belly button now it doesn't really but they had nipples know and then the big one I always Say is did the alien ever get any older and I have Betty Andreessen who's one most famous 1946 her and her husband both had their first experience in 1946 So I asked them You were nineteen forty six or little six year old girl or whatever Now you're like 80 years old You change this whole thing, did the alien ever get any older? And the husband said no never got any older but aliens live long time and we start making these excuses and that's the whole thing. The aliens when you start asking, the alien is always the same it's always...and that's the whole thing if its actual physical biological being It should age, it doesn't age, the hybrids seem to age but the beings themselves don't seem to age and you see all these bizarre things they have sex organs

1:05:32 Nobody ever sees them eating or sleeping. So the bodies are like a port so yeah when they're in the physical world and it's even the thing there's A guy by name of they call him Tyler D I know his real name, but he's an assaw guy who's probably been leading expert on UFOs inside NASA And he's written at a book called American Cosmic you haven't read it You got to read it because Kit Green says if He were to take off the first couple chapters last couple chapters That's what kit green is thinking It's written by Diana Pasulka, yeah I've interviewed her and i was wondering who those secret sources were. Yeah I know that I had a conversation with Tyler and so you remember the story it was actually my friend who took Tyler to that site in New Mexico and showed him this medal he became obsessed with it So he takes Diana Pasulka and he takes Gary Nolan was the other guy he blindfolded him when he goes to the site now if they start talking about it they call it the gifting field

1:06:25 And that changes the whole perspective. Is this an actual crash where we shot it down with radar or these aliens came across the galaxy and then they got hit by lightning? We've got all these bizarre things that we sort of impose our own world view on what's happening, and they call it the gifting field, and that's one of the theories I think is...I'm looking more at all the time. Is maybe this was all intentional? That they actually intended to crash And this is like in a port thing! It's the same thing as the theory Wow! It's trying to get you go wow! Like This is pretty bizarre look at this paranormal stuff Look at this paranormal stuff and just keeps you banging away at the physical universe In terms of fact that eventually everybody gonna say No there has got be something beyond this physical universe and its because we get obsessed with this stuff You can't let it go once it comes

1:07:10 They call it the gifting field and that's what I say is the thing with the reports or with the crop circles It's all this gifting thing. They're dropping these little clues They're not allowed to come in and actually do the homework for you But they give these little clues these little hints And they force you to think about this kind of stuff, and that's what's happening The physical were a biological robot and remaining us universe it's all starting to break down because there's so many of these bizarre stories where people start to say and I don't think this is physical and you talk to Jacques Vallée, Jacques Vallée will bang on the table when people ask him. He'll bang on the table he says this is not solid we believe it's a solid world you know we used to believe that the world was flat that all came from irrational analytical mind that believed it was flat because you can put a level anywhere in the world and then its flat and you can measure it and tell when the sun going to come up and the sun is going around the earth because you can predict when it's gonna rise or set and we make all these

1:07:59 assumptions and what this is doing is breaking down all these belief systems to say no it's not the world you think it is. And the more that people get, especially with psychedelics I think he's going to be the one that's going to absolutely turn the world around because there are piles of people getting into psychedelics and they're starting to realize there are non-local states you can get in them and when you get in there people will say this is more real than the real world which means This is the illusion no matter what You might want to think and you get into even do the idea of the five methoxy DMT where you seem to go back to consciousness. You're in a light field There is no form there are no beings there are no

1:08:39 psychedelic patterns there is just this love and this sense of supreme oneness or a Divine being and stuff like that, and I think that's what's going to change it because you now have in Canada Marijuana is legal And you have a lot of places where psilocybin is legal now in the United States. I think that's gonna change You can have more more people as Max Planck said The world does not change by convincing other people. It advances science and I believe ufology and paranormal advance one funeral at a time. Cheers to all that. Yes, and American Cosmic great book And I agree with you on the psychedelics thing too The Gifting Fields That is really good context it kind of explains why they could just go out To this place and find some metal from some previous crash so easily I always thought that was a little weird my thought was maybe it was planted and maybe it was planted but not by the people who took her out Maybe it's as you say The Gifting Fields

1:09:37 And Tyler experience I think it's him who mentions in the book but saying that, In his office where they had him working when they brought a man you could feel something behind this wall trying to read is thoughts are trying to project thoughts that was always pretty provocative to me but never get it sealed off i'll tell one last story before we end yes yes hi there, i'm big into the download thing that you can get in the field and you can pull material out of the field is a lot about prizes what are the inventions hologram laser all these things came that way. And so when I was talking to Tyler, I met him in a cottage in Pennsylvania and he had this invention. He sold his company for 100 million bucks. He's got 40 patents.

1:10:17 The main one he had, had to do... it was going to be put on the space shuttle and they wouldn't put it on. He got some scientists to sign off. They said you're not putting this thing on a space shuttle and he actually got it on there. He said Grant I'll tell you what the last thing I remember....I had the idea in my head in the morning..the last thing I remember of the night before was a hooded figure standing at the end of the bed now if you look at literature the hooded figures always the wisdom being so I said to him because I seen these reports So could you see its face? And he goes, no I couldn't see its face. And I said oh you should be regressed! You should go to Yvonne Smith and you should go back to that event and see what the being was telling you. And so he had that being at the end of it...and in the morning he wakes up with his idea and as you see in American Cosmic it goes through the Pentagon and one star general stands up and says who came up with this idea?! And Tyler tells a story in American Cosmic that he does the download stuff that he says I sleep for eight hours

1:11:08 I get up, and then you have to go back to bed for an hour. And I go back to bed for an hour. Then I get up, and I get a big glass of water. And I go sit in the sun, and I start to drink the water, and they start to talk to me." So he's saying that he is getting material, and he has got 40 patents, and believes it is coming from them. Same as Gary Nolan who was doing DNA stuff at Stanford with Kit Green. He says, �I don't know how this works.� but I know how to make it work and he uses the same principle that a lot of people use. He says, I work through all the problems, I try to figure out analyze the problems and then I write down what the problem I need solved, I put it beside the bed and wake up in the morning and yeah idea is in my head

1:11:51 So they do know, they do know this idea of inspiration and these guys are working. But the problem is it's all secret so it really doesn't help anybody It's like the Bible says what profiteth a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul? I let everything go! I don't really cover up anything. It doesn't help if I figure it out And I don't tell you or anybody else The idea is to figure it out and spread it as widely as you can To raise the consciousness of the earth before we blow the place up Right on cheers to that man you are one of the greats and i appreciate that last story it has been a real treat to talk today i'm sure people gonna love it remind them where to get your books your website youtube in anything else here can be coming out with next wherever the research is going.

1:12:34 My main two places you can get me, I have White House UFO my YouTube channel. I've got about 500 interviews and type stuff I've done there and Presidential UFO is my Facebook site where I publish sort of the stuff happens from day to day the bizarre stories and downloads and stuff like that so those would be the two presidential UFO Facebook and The White House UFO YouTube channel right on well You are the man! You know a lot about a lot and I appreciate your time take care out there beautiful Thank You Greg How about that all you cool cats and kittens? I consider that a great way to round out the offerings for September. Grant is the best, probably my favorite figure in the ufology field that i hadn't interviewed yet over the years so i'm very glad we could add him to the archive

1:13:22 I think he's wise to focus on the consciousness aspect of the technology and beings' communications. And really, the point he made in the past that when you plot it on a timeline it's interesting that the MKUltra mind-cracking programs all seem to get legs right after the UFO spike and the stories about recovered crafts and bodies Yes, the end of World War II and Project Paperclip are also in that mix. So that adds a big question mark in there if you think the Germans had unlocked that technology at that time or maybe it was given to them who knows but I do love Grant's work and he has such impressive recall for many threads of ufology history and all the players involved

1:14:08 We talked about this more in the second hour, but I would say though that when you conclude that it's all consciousness and separation is an illusion. It's something i do agree as true but once you've come to grips with that as the big picture we kind of have to return to speaking about the world from our vantage point in order to really talk about it If we're just here for a range of experiences, then sure. With infinite options we might choose to manifest for a very painful life that's gonna feel very very real in some instances but if we all just float back up the big spirit soup why not?

1:14:45 We've heard this before, that the big material world is just a sandbox of sorts. But if we want to talk about the things going on in that sandbox we got to at least think of it as real so we can better assess the actions of these beings or our leaders or really anything that is interacting with us and where it all falls on the moral spectrum quote-unquote which might be as illusionary as matter itself but it is still a way in which we measure things from this human material plane vantage point. Everything in this dimension is made to feel real, which makes it hard to assess that moral spectrum as the foundation for reality or not, but it seems to be a type of rule that affects our future incarnations so in that sense it has consequences even if it is all just a game

1:15:38 This is what they say, but I also want morality and karma interactions to matter because otherwise we excuse a lot of very sick and twisted behavior as just an experience. And i absolutely understand every story needs a villain! That's just another role to play. Conflict and difficulty and suffering are parts of the game, and the sour makes the sweet that much sweeter. But the heroes? The protagonists They're not called to action if they aren't outraged by the actions of that villain. Cameron Poe doesn't just watch Cyrus the Virus and Diamond Dog take the plane and sit back and say, well it's all just experience what's the harm? So I do think Grant is right i've seen the light but it's just hard to talk about things from that perspective And I want to know what these guys are up to It was really interesting to hear him talk about

1:16:36 Not only the metamaterials, but also the bodies as some form of alien apports. That connects Ufology right to the occult and that's a theme that has a lot of merit to me. Interesting take that the bodies themselves could be apports opposed to just the metals and if we ever recovered one alive then even more so like how does that work? But either way big thanks to Grant for his time If you heard it and you liked it let him know Also, check out his website and his YouTube channel where most of the action is these days. In terms of today's show the first hour was pretty jam-packed and so was the second we talked more and more about that consciousness thing And I pushed back a little bit more than usual but it still went well Thought the points he made were very insightful We also got into what do these beings want? Are they really all living in oneness quote unquote

1:19:02 In other news, as I mentioned in the joint session show Sally Fallon Morel's new book The Contagion Myth written with Dr. Tom Cowan has been banned on Amazon two days before it was supposed to release! They had thousands of pre-orders and it was number one in its category which were shocking to me considering how outside the box this material is but it's banned When, if they want to worry about people being deceived start with the rampant issue of fake reviews and bribes and this that and the other that's made. The Amazon rating system almost useless without using a third-party website that rates products for authenticity They don't seem to care about that but they don't want you to read the wrong book

1:19:47 And I also said this already too, but very few companies have profited off of COVID as much as Amazon has. How funny! This is the kind of book they target right? But either way Gordon White and i will be doing a live Zoom hangout with Sally about the book plus members will be able to join us live and even ask Sally a few questions of their own towards the end it is a pretty special event It's my way of saying thank you for reciprocating with me. October 6th at six p.m., I'll be emailing everyone the link before the event, a couple days before so keep an eye on your inbox or join Plus quickly if you haven't already! I should also mention that i was back on The Conspiracy Farm podcast this past week. I do love talking with those guys they are a lot of fun check that out if you like hearing me on the other side of the mic

1:20:40 which a decent amount of people seem to enjoy, which always surprises me really because I feel so behind compared to the guests we have and i'm just a regular guy. But i'm way more comfortable doing it than I used to be and it's really just the best and only way to further the reach of THC We're doing great but when I was on Chris Jericho show in particular or even a couple of others I've done like Rude Jude on SiriusXM There was a noticeable bump in new people checking out the show, and I am super confident that if people who like this kind of thing just find us then they will definitely be into it. So i need to do more of that. I need to make the rounds as much as I can

1:21:25 If you listen to other shows that you want me to get on, then let them know. That is how Jericho even happened! He asked who he should be getting on to talk weird paranormal stuff and enough people said ME that he shot me an email. And that was a hell of a life experience so put the word out if you'd wanna help me cause I wanna close out this year with a bang. I wanna do these guest spots when our recent shows are as solid as ever... ...and I think thats right now Anyway, very happy with today's episode and the episodes of September. Michael Wan, Phoenix Aurelius, Whitney Webb, Sylvie Ivanova... We were not messing around!

1:22:05 But I guess we'll call this meeting of the Midnight Society closed. Very psyched for the upcoming interviews i'm working on, but that is for another day! Much love take care of you and yours and big thanks to Grant Cameron it was a serious pleasure. I've done my part your move alien reporters disclosure deceivers and inner circle of The Invisible College... You're fuckin'- Woke up this morning with light in my eyes And then realized it was dark outside It was like coming down from the sky You know who must be those strangers that come every night Whose saucer-shaped light put people uptight

1:23:15 Leave blue-green footprints that glow in the dark I hope they get home Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along? Don't do anything wrong Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along to the highest side

1:23:57 I woke up this morning was feeling quite weird. I had flies in my beard, my toothpaste was smeared. I opened my window they'd written my name said so long we'll see you again. Mr. Spaceman, won't you please take me along? Don't do anything wrong Hey, spaceman Won't you please take me along the higher side Hey, mr. spacement Won't you please take me along

1:25:06 I won't do anything wrong Hey, Mr. Spaceman Won't you please take me along the high side?