David Mathisen | Consciousness, Twisting Texts, & Secrets Of The Stars

00:00 in reference to the interview. Hey Greg this is lip on reading big fan of yours and a listener of the higher side chats listen man i think you handle yourself like a scholar and a gentleman on that last interview man just keep it up your great interviewer men don't give into the haters out there In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood. These are The Hireside Chat

00:54 Hello again, Ironside Chatters. Hello again indeed! Wow drinking little drinks smoking a little smoke I'm Greg Carlwood and today we're talking with the great David Matheson and looking behind the secularist movement in terms of religious and ancient texts, the loss of their true esoteric meaning and how this entire sector of human consciousness and human understanding was wiped away by the infiltrators of the giant killer robot that was the Holy Roman Empire in one of the most far-reaching and influential forms of mind control known to man. And it's all gonna make sense soon enough but I wanted to clear up a little confusion out there in the THC audience about the schedule because i used to always say a show every five days. And then we'd have The Money Bomb winners...

04:29 need to know from corruption to you. Be sure to grab your goods, some conspiracy fireside chat Folks, today we're taking another stab at understanding the great codes of ancient texts. The secrets of the elite and the true history of some of the world's largest power structures on our never-ending quest for enlightenment within the darkness We know that the elites war on human consciousness is as old as history itself rooted in religion structures and ideas that are still prevalent even thousands of years later

05:05 Well, our guest David Matheson has been diving deep into history and ancient texts looking for the occult knowledge coded within. The manipulation of the powerful puppet masters and the lies we've been told throughout time And now David has emerged from the rubble with a 400 plus page new book called The Undying Stars The truth that unites the world's ancient wisdom and the conspiracy to keep it from you I can't wait to talk to him about it here He is the code cracker himself David welcome to THC Thanks for that introduction, Greg. I don't know now you're going to spend two hours trying to live up to what you just said You gotta grab them! We gotta grab them right out of the gate But yeah man this is gonna be fun thanks for being here For the folks at home David and I had tables right next to each other At The Secret Space Program Conference And i heard many compelling conversations Going on between people who walked up and David about his book

05:56 book and we talked about doing a show, and here we are. But I've read the book—I thought there was a ton of interesting info in there! A lot of stuff that's been coming up with other guests have had recently mainly the idea that these ancient myths and stories in the Bible are not to be taken literally but actually accounts of the movement of constellations and astrological alignments And from there, your book covers a lot more ground even still. I thought it would be kind of fun to dive in by reading just part of the inscription you wrote and the copy you gave me where you said that all conspiracies start here and i love it! It's very provocative and bold statement but let me have you elaborate on that little bit to get us started Where do you see all the conspiracies starting? What got us into this mess

06:40 Right on. Well, you know I'm really thankful for that synchronicity where we were right next to each other and I wasn't really familiar at all with the higher side chats and then so that was uh, That was pretty amazing. And then here we are and I'm wearing a shirt that she gave me here awesome So all the conspiracies start here. I mean what's the higher side chats? All about it's about consciousness right and it's about this war on consciousness and it's like you know There's the dark side of the force, and there is the other side. So I think one way to start here is if you want to talk about the New World Order, certainly that's a valid topic to talk about but really you've gotta know about the Old World Order because I would say I'm focusing on really ancient stuff or pretty ancient stuff mostly around the time of the Roman Empire

07:42 mostly around the time of the movie Gladiator, in fact which had these actual historical figures. There's Commodus the bad guy there is Marcus Aurelius the old emperor at the beginning who wants to give the empire to Russell Crowe but that didn't happen and Russell Crowe never became the Emperor In fact, right around that time there was a power struggle taking place over... I believe the empire was being taken over from the inside by group of people who knew how to create reality. And by create reality I mean using symbols, using words, using rituals and using an understanding of the way the world

08:29 is actually put together the way that cosmos and human experience actually works. They knew some deep things about creating reality, and they used that knowledge from a very unlikely beginning to actually take over the Roman Empire from the inside and stamp out a lot of this ancient knowledge that had been very widespread before... And to impose literalistic kind of system of mind control on the Empire using, you know a combination of military... they had the military might but they wetted it up with this system of mind control and then they went around stamping out kinda all the Jedi's. Right? Yeah yeah! So in that world order has basically been in effect for 17 centuries and basically the places that the Roman Empire conquered

09:30 is where they stamped it out and everywhere else is where you find some vestiges of this ancient wisdom are still in effect, like the shamanic things that are going on in South America or in the Native American cultures of North America. Or in...you know, the mountains of Tibet those are places that the Roman Empire never got to right? So that's where people who were living descending from the Western Roman Empire going, oh you know there's something missing. I want to go check out what's happening with this Native American teacher or I want to learn from this Tibetan teacher why? Because they're hungry for something that actually was part of Western culture if you back far enough that was deliberately stamped out and given in a replacement was put in place

10:25 Yeah, and that replacement being literal Catholicism is... you know so many people today still believe Jesus was a real person. You know he died for our sins and there are varying degrees of this of course we all tend to laugh in the mainstream at those few people who still believe the earth was like 6,000 years old stuff like that. But there's different degrees of believing this lie and it's pretty prevalent today I'm sure most people in the audience have at least one parent or grandparent who is still stuck in that paradigm and it seems like you yourself came from a pretty conservative background. You were in the military for quite some time graduated from West Point And I've heard you say that you took the Bible literally for almost 20 years

11:08 You even wrote a previous book from literal perspective, but I bring this up because it just seems like you know a really hard thing to To get over and a lot of people probably can't sit down with that one member of their family And talk to him about it. So I mean how did you overcome this? How did you see beyond that level what was this process like for you yeah so Great, so let's get right into it. And so you started off by saying that was Catholicism but let's not just pick on one group, right? Sure Christianity. And really I would say its literalism because and its not just Christianity either because and I'm just wanting to kind of set some of the definitions up front because I think both the church

11:57 the nobles or the politicians are there in conjunction with each other so you had at least in western europe you had certain families and bloodlines controlling the crown or the dukedom, they were in the nobility. That's the political side of it and they were also controlling the mechanism belief that being a church so it's both... It is not just the religious side thats creating reality or thats enforcing a structure on people saying hey you have to call this guy my lord You have to call this woman my lady and if you don't

12:34 we'll make life hard for you and eventually if you continue to persist in not calling him my Lord, will cut off your head or whatever we're gonna do. So then that's a form of mind control right? Eventually if you say well I don't want my head cut off so I just have to start calling that guy that eventually your mind will actually by saying that you will actually start to create a reality in your own thinking that person is above you okay? So anyway it's not just the church, its' the church in conjunction with political power that did this But now let's get to your, yeah I'm just trying to kind of set the stage here at the beginning. Then you said well most of us in the mainstream would have a hard time believing that anyone could believe that Earth is 6,000 years old and I'm going hey man three years ago I would've said look here lemme explain and lemme lets try and be fair how you could believe that? Is it possible there is omnipotent divine

13:32 a being that created the universe? Sure, that's a possibility. We have to explain all this somehow and it is pretty difficult to explain so if there is an omnipotent being that created everything could he give his word and preserve it Yes, he could do that or it or she or what you know whatever Whatever pronoun is appropriate. Yes, they could do that Okay in if the Bible is in fact preserving that revelation Then

14:12 Is it right to study it and try and honestly understand what is trying to tell us? Yeah, we should spend time trying to do that. Okay, is it possible to believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old or you know, we've got people talking about light-years away of this... Well couldn't God create the beam of light when he created everything so that we didn't have to wait 70 billion years to see the stars It's within the realm of possibility. So, my own personal journey was that I found that the scriptures in the Bible really did answer a lot of questions about things I found in myself and really did answer a lot of questions about things I found in the world. And I still believe they are true in a very profound sense but I don't believe anymore that they were literal.

15:06 I believe these are all metaphors, just like the Matrix is a metaphor. It's telling us something right? The Matrix you know everybody watches The Matrix and goes whoa! Right what was that trying to do? That explains a lot of things about life but you don't actually have to believe that literally there is a guy named Neo or a woman named Trinity and go hey, I wonder if Trinity has any sisters. I wonder if there's any you know descendants of neo around today right but you have actually people saying Having big philosophical and theological arguments as to whether there are actually brothers of Jesus or not Whether they're any dead, you know direct descendants did Jesus in Mary Magdalene had direct descendents You know Da Vinci code mm-hmm

15:55 Well, you wouldn't think of doing that about the movie The Matrix. You would say whoa what are you talking about? You wonder if Neo had an actual brother and maybe we can go meet some of his descendants. You're missing the point of the movie just watch it as a movie right? And so that's what I would say is a way of understanding the scriptures are this incredible metaphor But it's like Bruce Lee says in Enter the Dragon, they're like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't focus on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory! They're a metaphor—they're pointing you to something else and you're not supposed to focus in on trying to figure out literally that there was 12 disciples or literally that there was a prophet Elisha who could call bears out of the forest to tear children apart—that's horrific

16:50 But it's only horrific if it is literal. It's actually a metaphor for the motions of the stars and in fact that's what connects it to all the other myths of the world because Osiris and Isis, and Seth and Horus are all talking about the motions of the heavenly bodies. The Norse gods of Odin and Freyja and Loki are all talking about their heavenly motions or the stars, the moon, the sun in the planets. And all those things are metaphors that are there to teach us something really profound so... Yeah I agree with you man it's really important too

17:36 to really think about that because this isn't just about a couple of stories in the bible. I mean, this was a systematic program to change the way humanity thinks forever! A lot of that esoteric knowledge, a lot of that the message behind the literal story was completely lost and it's taken schools and generations and generations of this you know state schooling and getting these little worker bees to be task-oriented left brain thinkers. And a lot of our ability to understand those coded messages has been weeded out of humanity and that is the real crime

18:17 Yeah, no for sure Going look if you go to someone who knows the truth and then they give you falsehood And your you know You're like an honest seeker trying to figure out your life and they tell you something deliberately false that seems to me to be a real thought crime right but it is possible that a lot of the people who are perpetuating this system do truly believe it the way that they're teaching it. I think there's probably people at the top who know just like in lots of other systems where there may be lots of people who are genuinely and sincerely thinking that they're doing what's right, but maybe

19:03 you know, you might talk about like the police forces who are marching down the street wearing body armor. Right? You know do you think those guys go to work every day thinking I'm a tyrant when your kids ask what they do yeah i'm a tool of tyranny no you know that's not what they're thinking there is sincerely thinking I'm protecting people on enforcing law and order whatever so I think there's a lot of people who may be trying...I am just trying You know, it's not all black and white but I do believe that the people at the top are maybe using the misguided efforts of sincere believers and pointing them in bad or directions that could be ultimately harmful. And I'll say this other thing too is like I said, I took the scriptures literally for 20 years and not because I was trying to be a bad person but because it explained a lot...it had a lot

20:02 It had a lot of value and positive impact on my life. Well, if it can have that kind of value and positive impact in deep profound meaning on your life when you're taking it out on the level that I believe now is only the superficial level, maybe even the counterfeit explanation... If the counterfeit is that positive and life-changing for many people, the real thing must have been really good if the counterfeit could hold sway. Look this is a system that's held sway for 17 centuries at least so you can't fool people with just pure poison you gotta use what i believe is being done as a counterfeit is being offered anyway so does that kind of respond to what you were saying there yeah absolutely man and uh

20:53 I mean, let's look at some of the examples because... Let's say okay so this realization that the biblical stories are really just metaphors about the movement of stars and constellations through the 12 houses of the zodiac rather than twelve tribes of Israel or Jesus aka The Sun and Twelve Apostles. You know, if we start to have this realization that it's more about what's happening in space from the human perspective rather than literal tribes or literal apostles. I mean so what? What does that really mean to anyone listening today? What kind of value should be attained from that realization? Exactly okay! So yeah... We'll throw in a few examples to show but before we do that let's just

21:40 Let's just get to that question that you ended your question with, which is so what? It's like remember when Bruce Lee had the finger pointing to the moon. He said don't focus on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory What the moon so now I'm supposed to focusing on the moon Well, the Moon is a large literal rock right? The Moon is this large spherical object made up of certain chemicals that is it's are revering sacred stories and sacred scriptures that have to do with the motions of the heavenly bodies, and I can demonstrate to you that they are. They are all this cultures around the world are revering a set of scriptures that have to do with the heavenly bodies. Why is that? Those motions or those heavenly bodies must be pretty important. They must be telling us something very profound about

22:44 consciousness or the human existence and in fact we must somehow be connected to those stars and heavenly bodies in some way that we can tease out. So now let me just show you a couple examples, and the Bible I spend most amount of time in The Undying Stars showing how this or that biblical story relates to the stars. But let me just say, this is not something new as you've already alluded to even in the ancient times there was this great writer he's also been called The First Writer of Science Fiction Lucian of Samosata who way back in like the first century said these stories are all about them the story

23:31 Venus having an affair with Mars while her husband Saturn, or not Saturn but Vulcan in Roman was away. So Vulcan or Hephaestus or Hephaestus in Greek was the smith of the gods and he could make you know...He had a forge and he forged a web a net to catch his wife. His wife was Venus, or Aphrodite the love goddess but he was crippled because his father Zeus or Jupiter had thrown him out of Olympus and all the way down to Earth and broke both of his legs so he was kind

24:12 very plodding figure and Venus or Aphrodite is always having an affair with Mars, Ares the war god. He's like the captain of the football team in high school he's like the fastest runner and she's always sneaking off to bed with him when Vulcan is out of town so this is in The Odyssey comes up with this plot to trick her and he rigs up this fine gossamer web so strong that you can't break out of it but it's almost invisible even the gods can see any rigs it up above their bed and then says I'm going off on a business trip some my worshippers often as far island I'll be back in a few weeks any heads out the door and then this his friend the Sun Helios is gonna keep an eye on things and let him know and no sooner is Vulcan or

24:59 Hephaestus out the door, then Ares comes in and says to Aphrodite all right he's gone let's head off to bed. And they do and they spend the night together in lovemaking and fall asleep as they fall asleep the net comes down over them and Helios says to Vulcan or Hephaestus hey time to come back now! And he comes back and finds that you know they're trapped they can't move like ugh And the husband is roaring in anguish and he calls all the gods together, says come look at this. Why should I have to endure this? All the gods are there laughing Mars and Venus trapped underneath the web. They said, oh it looks like the slow guy caught the captain of football team there on Mars and then Hermes the trickster God Mercury says hey you know I'd trade places with Aries even if even if I was trapped underneath the web just to be next to Venus I don't care if all the gods are looking looking at me so they're making fun of them but

26:00 Lucian of Samasata said this story that is well known and remembered and preserved in the Odyssey is actually about the planets Mars and Venus when they have a conjunction together. And maybe the planet Saturn is heading off as this conjunction is happening, and they're having the conjunction in the Pleiades And the Pleiades are these beautiful cluster of shimmering stars right above the shoulder of Taurus, the bull in the Zodiac. In the Zodiac all the planets actually pass through the Zodiac. The Zodiac are those constellations that are arrayed along the ecliptic path that all the planets and the sun and moon generally travel along so the planets will go through the zodiac just like the Sun will

26:47 I actually have a blog post from a few years ago when there was this conjunction taking place in the Pleiades and by the way, the sun was coming up. Well in the story who catches them in bed? Who's at the lookout? It's the sun! And it's in the morning when the Sun comes up that all of the gods come around and laugh at the situation well that's...that's uh... that's an example of how these myths embody a celestial motion, and the motion of in this case the sun and certain planets which by the way all the planets have names of the gods. If you read Hamlet's Mill they put forth this it was written in 1969 they put forth this theory that the planets were not named after the gods which is what we're usually taught

27:32 No, the gods are actually named after the planets. The gods are telling the story of these motions of these planets moving through the background of these stars and that is in Greek mythology so now let's just quickly jump over to the Bible and you've got the motion the 12 tribes of Israel that go down to Egypt where they're in bondage, they're in slavery. They are making bricks for the Pharaoh like what was that animated version of The Prince Of Egypt or Moses has to lead the people, lead the 12 tribes up out of the bondage down in Egypt up into the promised land. Well there's twelve tribes of Israel, tribes are groupings and there is twelve constellations of the zodiac and in fact in the Old Testament there are two different places where the tribes, the twelve children of Israel are given a blessing

28:35 Each tribe is given a different blessing, and those blessings identify which zodiac constellation that tribe represents. And I talk about that in the book now But like for an easy one, probably the clearest and most obvious is Judah. He's described as the lion or the child of a lion or the whelp of a lion you know? A young lion... And that's Leo okay but they all actually relate to a tribe in Moses leads he's the constellation or he is the constellation that leads the tribes up out of the lower half of the year. As we all know, you know if you go surfing in the morning there's part of the year where the nights are longer than the days uh where the sun doesn't come up until much later during the winter and then in the summer we've got the sun is up at night until almost nine o'clock

29:27 but in the winter it might be getting dark at 4 o'clock. So half of the year, days are longer than nights and half of a year nights are longer than days. In that lower half of the year we enter that at the September equinox when the sun crosses over to being in the shorter half of the year where the days are suddenly shorter than the nights and they keep getting, the days keep getting shorter all the way down to that bottom winter solstice which is like a very pit. The lowest part of the year for the sun and the sun is lowest in the sky on that day And then they start to ascend back up towards the summer solstice but it's still

30:05 Days are still shorter until we get to that spring equinox, and that's where we cross over into the upper half of the year. And so the crossing out of Egypt what happens in that crossing point is they cross the Red Sea and Moses leads them across the Red Sea. Now we're out of Egypt, heading up into the Promised Land and Moses is actually associated with the constellation Aries I believe which is the ram which he is the one that leads the zodiac wheel up into the upper half of the year in the age of Aries. And you can tell that Moses is associated with Aries because he has, in artistic depictions going back centuries, ram's horns! You may wonder why does Michelangelo's Moses have a ram's horns? Why are all these drawings of Moses have little horns

30:56 Because he's associated with Aries the the constellation that is right there at the March equinox where they were that we're the He's leading the zodiac up out of the lower half of the year and as they continue to go up Then we have this incident with the golden calf Where his brother Aaron, you know Moses is up on the mountain going up to get the Ten Commandments And as he comes down he sees to his horror while he was gone. His brother Aaron has talked all the Israelites into making a golden calf and starting to worship that, and saying and dancing around in chanting these O Israel are your gods that led you up out of the land of Egypt. And he smashes the Ten Commandment tablets and says

31:41 What are you doing melt down that calf and God's about to send a plague and everybody's gonna suffer for doing this why because Aaron in the Israelites were declaring that a calf a bull the likeness of a young Taurus led them up out of The land of Egypt and and Moses says hold on wrong answer. That was the age of Taurus, that's over we're in the Age of Aries now get a clue and the And the Old Testament scriptures depict the children of Israel having, they use ram's horns. The shofar it's a very sacred symbol. It's a very sacred sound they blow the shofar at very specific times. The symbology is of the age of Aries so long story short we could go through the whole Bible and find connections just like that

32:40 If that was just one isolated like, oh gee whiz. There's this one little coincidence but it goes through… I show pretty many of these on the blog with Samson or in the New Testament you've got the 12 disciples in the book of Revelation and you get some very clear celestial imagery going on. It's not just a one-off, actually this is the central underlying foundation of the house that its built upon. Yeah, man. I think it's all super interesting and another thing on the procession of the equinoxes is you also talk about how this is The basis for the concept of heaven and hell And this is absolutely key for the elite to establish because if you want to control someone's life You've got to convince them that

33:26 that there is something better than this life or far worse on the other side and that you have the key. And it sounds so impossible, but somehow that trick worked and it's still working today but this concept of heaven and hell was really just a warping of this knowledge which was known which was called The Procession Of The Equinoxes and still is right? I mean there's a connection there. Yeah now you're really... That's a perceptive you know, a question to ask right here because what you're getting into really is the concept of controlling other people. Right? What you just said was you gotta have something to hold over their heads You've gotta have something to use as a lever and you can always use just brute force right do this or I will hit you with a baseball bat and but if you that's

34:12 expensive, right? You got to maintain a lot of people with a lot of baseball bats and there's always the danger that you know if you're a small group trying to control the large group eventually The large group might wake up and say you know what there's a lot of us in a few of them Right. So let's use something other than just brute force Let's use yeah We'll back it up with brute force at the end but it's a lot more efficient a lot more effective and a lot less expensive If we can say you better listen to me or if you disobey me, you'll go to hell. Oh okay I don't know that i believe that but just in case I guess I'd better hedge my bets so that's like the ultimate sanction right eternal damnation for your soul but there are other lesser ways that forms of control other than brute force go along with a system

35:09 control people by getting them to buy into or getting them to believe, or getting them to agree to a certain way of looking at the world. And if once you start to look at the world that way then you start to actually act as if it really is that way and makes it a lot easier for the people who've kind of created the maze right? For the rats to run around in so its form of control through anything other than physical force, we could say broadly speaking is mind control. I don't mean mind control as in I say a word and you turn into a mindless zombie that does whatever I said or that would be an extreme form of mind control but anything that doesn't rely on me

35:52 threatening to shoot you, hey give me your money now I've got a gun. That would be physical but anything else is basically controlling you through your mind and so this is a form or okay two questions ago it was well so what actually I would say all these things are actually supposed to be teaching us human freedom, higher consciousness. How to be empowered? The wondrousness of each individual and the incredible power that you have... That's what they're really teaching but they've been turned into by some people a form of doing the exact opposite of controlling you, of limiting you, of putting you in a box and then you brought up

36:40 So the precession of the equinoxes is just another cycle. We may not all be familiar with the precessional cycle, that's a big cycle it actually takes nearly 25 thousand years if it were to play all the way out which you know we could But let's dial down to a daily cycle. We're all familiar with the sun rises in the east, and because of the turning of the earth those of us in North America know that the East Coast It's turning towards the East Coast so they get there first. So they see the sunrise first right on New Year's Eve, they see the ball drop three hours before those of us on the West Coast do but eventually I'm going to continue turning towards the east and then eventually

37:28 That turning will cause the Sun to seem to go down into the West, into the Pacific Ocean. For those of us who are sitting out there in the water staring out into the Pacific we'll see the sun eventually sink down into the ocean right? So that motion is a daily cycle then monthly cycles that the moon, you know the moon goes through this monthly cycle where it goes to a new moon and it gets fuller and fuller to a full moon. And then there's annual cycles which we talked about... You know, the year gets-the days get shorter, the days get shorter, we go all the way to a-and then there is even longer than yearly cycles. There are other cycles that the Moon does but there's this precessional cycle which actually has to do with

38:16 You can only detect it if you watch the background stars that the sun rises in. So on any specific day of the year, at the exact same moment in time, the Sun... If you're at the exact same point on the planet, the Sun's going to rise With the same background of stars is going to rise out of the same background of stars if you yeah, and and over The year it's gonna rise in a different background of stars But when when the earth gets back around to the exact same point It should be rising in the exact same group of stars but over a long long period of time The the background of Stars will actually be delayed. There'll be this slippage where the background of Stars is getting

39:06 delayed by the motion of precession which is a physics term that has to do with the top of the the top of the axis of the earth is precessing. It's doing this wobble, it's just like in physics class where a teacher might suspend a bicycle wheel from a string and then he spins it around to show angular momentum or a gyroscope when it starts to wobble so that's what causes the processional cycle but that cycle too all these myths are showing these cycles are embodying all these cycles from the daily cycle to the processional cycle, but they're saying this has to do with human existence. Actually what we're trying to teach you is actually that there's a cycle to human existence where we come down into an incarnated state and let me just say real quick whether or not we believe this is one thing but I believe that

40:11 One of the purposes for using all these celestial metaphors is because this is what they're trying to say. The human spirit Is kind of like that Sun it goes up into the air where it's not embodied, but then it hits the earth It sinks down into the West and it plows through the Earth and the water it plows through the clay of the it when it hits the western horizon and sinks down into the underworld that's kind of like a spirit coming down out of the world of disembodied fire and into our body made-up earthen water that is uh... man or woman made of clay you know where a mixture of earth and water well but we've got this fire inside of us as his divine spark it's like the sun we are kinda like the sun

41:04 Osiris in the underworld. We're like the sun when it hits the western horizon, that's the point of birth because that's when the fire, the spark, the spirit comes down into a human body and then it plows through this human existence being inside this body on man I'm you know My finger hurts or whatever, you know. I'm in a body but then at the eastern horizon That's the end of the incarnational cycle But there's something that lives on after that does the spirit? There's actually part of us that is not physical At least you know, that's one way of interpreting

41:44 what these metaphors are pointing to, and actually there's lots that backs that up. For instance if somebody has a near-death experience or an out of body experience that shows or could be interpreted as showing that there is part of human consciousness that can exist somehow independently from the body right? And then maybe it comes back into the body so I've kind of thrown out a lot there, but that's You know that's one possible teaching that these cycles when you say well the processional cycle or the This you know the solar cycle. What does it all mean? You know so what why would you put that into a myth because we're trying to say this is what human life is like But you said but wait they're turning that into a method of mind control They're talking about hell Well hell is actually

42:41 Sure, the Bible talks about hell and it says don't end up in hell where the fire consumes you forever. Oh That's really scary. What are they talking about? I better not mess up. I better not sin I better not do this thing You know, I'm being threatened that I'll go to hell if I do this lifestyle wait a minute That's a total misinterpretation Hell is actually that lower half of the zodiac wheel hell is the part of the year from when The September solstice for those of us in the northern hemisphere is the September solstice. Down guys in Australia this is reversed but that at September solstices where the night starts to take over

43:18 That's where nighttime starts to dominate daytime. That's where darkness starts to rule. Guess what? That's hell, that's Hades for Greek mythology, that's Sheol in the Old Testament, that's the underworld of Osiris in ancient Egypt That is a metaphor for half of the year, but then we come up at the March equinox. Suddenly we start heading up towards heaven! That's the high part of the year that's where days are longest. That's where we get all the way to the top to the shining city on the hill

43:54 that heavenly Jerusalem where the streets are paved with gold, these are all metaphors to reflect sunshine. That's the top of the year. That's the top of the zodiac wheel, the summer solstice right? That's where the sun is the highest. That's the upper half of the zodiac wheel and that's heaven and so the whole idea of heaven in hell as this form punishment or reward is a literally, it's taking literally something that's actually much metaphor that's teaching something much different. It's actually teaching reincarnation or at least it could be argued that its teaching reincarnation. Its not teaching eternal hellfire so... Right

44:39 Yeah man, it's super fascinating. And another aspect of this literalism interpretation of ancient texts that I wanted to ask you about that has been cropping up a lot more in recent years especially in the alternative community is you start to see people who are looking at these older texts and biblical passages as literal to support the ancient alien theory that some of these teachers were aliens and genetically alternated primitive humans to get what we have today, but I guess you would probably disagree with that interpretation right? Because you see it as all esoteric. Yeah so great questions here! You're a great researcher Greg! So yeah that is a form taking them literally right? We've got in the book of Genesis this

45:26 passage in Genesis 6 about the sons of heaven who you know saw that women on earth, that they were desirable and they came down and had races of giants. You know that we're their offspring this kind of divine being having sexual relations with a human woman okay is that supposed to be taken literally? Well look people could argue that and we also have the Anunnaki in the Sumerian, Babylonian, Akkadian mythology. I believe that...I've found so much evidence to support the

46:07 metaphorical, celestial and it's not just me. Like I just said this goes all the way back to guys in ancient times were saying this there were writers in the 1800s who were talking about what they called astronomical theology now and we usually shorten it to astro-theology or there are great teachers like I want to give a shout out to Santos Bonacci a wonderful teacher who has great videos on the internet that explain this very same system that I'm talking about. So there's so much evidence that it's celestial, that we have to be careful...I would always say let's look and see if there is a celestial explanation before we start to buy the literal explanation but it could be argued or somebody believes you know the Anunnaki are literal beings

46:59 that had sex with women or maybe did genetic engineering on them, maybe the sex is a metaphor for genetic engineering or whatever. But wait let's not... we could believe both! We could say look it's both metaphorical and it literally happened. Look I'm not gonna... and my position is okay I'm like Sherlock Holmes or Scooby-Doo, coming up to the mystery. I'm looking at the clues and not going to throw out any possible explanation if the clues support it." So I am not here to bash someone else's interpretation of the clues but I would say well wait a minute let's see if we can explain in a different way you know maybe that these people are explaining is a possibility but could also be

47:46 The the events happened like this. Okay, so with that said I can't look back much I can't use these two. I don't believe that these texts should be used for history. I Believe these texts are metaphorical So when somebody starts to support history Like 2000 BC with these texts It gets a little hairy Yeah, we're going to it's like saying well Look I know there were people in the land of Judea during the Roman Empire because historically We know that the Romans had a campaign against Judea. Okay? And we know those people were there for certain

48:34 period of time in advance. But if you say, and by the way the Exodus proves that they were there in about 2000 BC or whatever I said well wait a minute you just brought in you know the exodus and coming up out of Egypt which I just showed you could also be completely talking about what the stars are doing. So when we go all the way back to the Anunnaki in some thousands and thousands of years BC, and were using the text as our primary evidence then I would say well that's problematic. I'm going to say I am agnostic about things that

49:11 after a certain point we get into really, really remote history where I can't look. So in my book I'm only making kind of definitive statements historically speaking from about the time of ancient Egypt and Ancient Greece what happened before that like in man's distant past before the Egyptians It's clearly extremely important. Something very, very amazing was going on back then that is different from what we're taught in conventional history? So where did these texts come from you know how did the ancient Egyptians have them how do the ancient Sumerians have them because these texts show evidence of knowledge of quantum physics These text show evidence of sophisticated understandings of how the world works that modern

50:02 Science didn't start to really encounter until the 20th century. So how did that happen? Yeah, I don't know and so my position is I don't know what happened I know that something happened so it could be That it was an Anunnaki or people from another or beings from another planet that is a possible explanation To this scooby-doo mystery but I've got to see the evidence and so If I can go to the Anunnaki legends or myths and show a celestial explanation for them, then it could be also literal but it's definitely celestial. It could be celestial and literal. It could be more than just celestial but it is definitely not less.

50:51 I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah. Yeah! I do think you got to be careful of literalism because that has been a major... not a major stumbling block or the major obstacle to seeing the profound truths of the metaphorical these things are metaphorical and if you take them only literally you're gonna miss all that If you spend all your time watching the Matrix trying to figure out, okay which city is Neo from? It's like why are you watching it for history. You're missing it! Same thing with these texts well you can also miss the metaphorical

51:31 in a different way than it's been missed for the last 17 centuries by saying, oh yeah this is all about aliens. Literal this literal that and once again we've lost the metaphor so if the metaphorical is actually the key to tremendous power then the people who want to keep that key out of people's hands will keep it out anyway. Anything that keeps you from the metaphorical, that's fine." Yeah! So hey man I'll keep it from the metaphorical by believing that its literal 12 disciples, literal miracles in the New Testament books or the Gospels, literal-literal-literal don't take it celestially, literal prophet Elijah, literal prophet Elisha,

52:16 Okay, that's one way to miss the metaphor now after that metaphor has started to fall apart and and more And more people are not believing it anymore. Hey let's bring in a totally different literal literal ancient aliens literal Travelers in spaceships that came down oh all these things in the Old Testament. Oh they're describing space ships. They're just driving rockets they're describing Literal literal literal okay missed the metaphor again Yeah, I appreciate that position and on the subject of these stories being esoteric a lot of people tend to think that Esoteric messages are meant to keep something hidden but i've heard you talk about it as more of a way to reveal information Of course like you've been saying today rather than conceal it And it's just that we don't have We don't cultivate the type of thinking that appreciates symbolism As much as the ancients might have. It might have seemed much simpler to them

53:11 Yeah, so I didn't come up with that idea myself either. That comes from this great writer named R.A. Schwaller-Dolubich who wrote all in French he was Alsatian and John Anthony West actually wrote this book in the 70's called Serpent In The Sky which is kind of like the first introduction of a lot of English-speaking people to the work of Schwaller de Lubitsch and it's fantastic stuff. So one of Schwaller de Lubitsch books, now they've been translated into English talks about the esoteric and what is it for? And one of the things that he said really struck me where he said you know we always think of the esoteric as a way of hiding, as a way of concealing

53:58 You might say, oh yeah that Moses and the Ram and the Taurus. Whoa I didn't see that was hidden. Yeah they were there was a hidden message it is In a way you could think of the esoteric as a hidden message, but he said no it's not a way of hiding. It's a way of conveying and I wrote this blog post about wax on wax off Yeah That's a great one in the karate kid the first karate kid where mr Miyagi and Daniel son Daniel sign is like doing all these chores And he doesn't know that there's a hidden meaning right why did Mr.. Miyagi teach him that way well

54:36 It's a way of conveying it's a way of teaching daniel son something that he might not have been able to grasp or absorb any other way so we had him wax on wax off his wax the car then you paint the fence then use. Paint the house and each time is doing a different motion, And after a while he goes up to Mr. Miyagi and says, hey man I thought you were going to teach me karate? I'm in real trouble here don't you see i'm getting beaten up every day You promised to teach me and you just got me acting as your slave! And Mr. Miyagi says hold on...and then he doesn't explain it to him He just shows him. He doesn't say you know all those things I told you that esoterically No, he just throws a punch at them and says show me wax on wax off

55:21 And suddenly Daniel knows it on a deeper way than he could have ever known it before. Because if Mr Miyagi had just said, okay, Daniel-san I see you're having some trouble your girlfriend the girl you like and you know the guy who likes her happens to be Cobra Kai. Cobra Kai guy kicks your butt every day! Now, I'm going to tell you how to stop one of those tremendous velocity spinning kicks that that guy knows how to do what i want you to do is this particular motion and the angle of your elbow is really important you got to get it right here and when you see that kick starting here's when you put your hand in you move like this and Daniel-san sitting there going okay well trying to keep... And then doubts will start to creep into Daniel-san mind immediately like wait a minute I felt some of those kicks

56:08 Those kicks come really, really hard. And by the way what if I'm thinking of blocking the left foot and he's doing a fake and he blocks any kicks are right? What will happen then in Daniel Sons' left brain which is a useful tool that we've been given that is Useful for all kinds of things that Daniel Son is using it for in high school is not very useful for learning karate And Mr Miyagi knows that so he says okay Daniel-san, let me put your left brain to sleep for a little while. I want you to wax these cars for eight hours." And so Daniel-san's left brain goes off into La La Land and starts daydreaming while he just absorbing this motion and then Mr Miyagi shows him that motion is not just about wax the car. That's the literal motion! That's the literal level these scriptures are not just about a cool story they are telling you

57:00 Kung Fu. It's like Neo goes, well I know kung fu right there and all of a sudden Daniel San realizes he knows something deep in his bones that he couldn't have gotten maybe any other way or at least as the depiction so when you when RA Schwaller de Lubitsch said The esoteric is actually to teach, it's not to hide. Mr Miyagi didn't use wax on wax off to hide something from Daniel-san he did it to bypass the parts of Daniel-san that wouldn't accept it or the parts of Daniel-san that would slow him down and it's like look I'm going to use the esoteric not to hide this stuff from you

57:43 but to teach it to you and I'm gonna get it, but there's all these defenses and there's all these roadblocks. So I've gotta send it to you in a little seed And once the seeds in your brain then boom It's going to grow into this tree But I can't send the tree into your brain because all your defenses will stop it so I'm gonna send it in as this seed and Then they hidden part will come out and blossom. So that's what the esoteric is? So that's what all these stories are actually away of teaching us stuff maybe That we we would balk at or that we would choke on, that our brain would go, oh man I can't accept that. But then it's a way of showing us Kung Fu. It's a way of teaching us Kung Fu through wax on and wax off but then along came as you mentioned the Cobra Kai there are people who want to use karate or kung fu

58:35 to beat you up and there's people who want to use it to oppress, you know. To keep everyone down in the school like hey don't mess with me or we'll find you after school and beat you up so this knowledge can be used for tremendous empowerment and helping the individual to stand up against tyranny or it can be used to tyrannize. And what the Cobra Kai school could have done at some point in the past was go around and find all of Mr. Miyagi's who are teaching the good side and say, hey you better stop that! Hey have you got any books that explain

59:15 the interpretation of these wax on, wax off motions and how they translate into Kung Fu? Good. We'll take those we'll keep some copies for ourselves and burn the rest so that humanity cannot know...humanity cannot know that this stuff is esoteric." And that's what happened in the Roman Empire you can see this going on where texts are being suppressed because those are the texts that teach hey this stuff is all esoteric! This stuffs all Gnostic. This stuff is all not literal, this stuff is all talking about metaphors and it was pain of death to have them.

59:56 It was a death penalty. So we've actually found some of these texts that have been buried and hidden, there's this set of text called the Nag Hammadi library that was dug up from near Alexandria where probably when the edict came out you could no longer have these Gnostic texts They didn't want to burn them, but they also didn't want to get caught with them. So they buried them maybe intending to come back later and for whatever reason they never did an in the 20th century they were found and people said wow this shows that actually Christianity This literalistic Christianity has always said that the Gnostics were like this

1:00:34 you know, this heretical sect. But actually what this shows is that the Gnostic interpretation was the...that was the original or that was the primary—that was the way it was supposed to be understood and then it got stamped out —or at least that's one way that this Nai Kamadi discovery has been interpreted but I would say it's like people trying to stamp out certain people wanted just keep the Kung Fu To themselves and make sure that everybody else when they're reading or doing wax on wax off There was always a teacher standing by to say and by the way, don't get any funny ideas that waxing that car might relate to karate Or kung-fu it is only only waxing the car And if you say any otherwise You're a heretic some people think that's why Bruce Lee was killed too. He brought all that over to America started teaching things That they didn't want taught

1:01:20 Wow. Yeah, it's interesting man that's a great analogy I love the whole karate kid thing um...I love the explanation of the esoteric tools the way that type of learning is supposed to you know, be taken in and now it's been warped by the elite. And now it's a mind control tool on the nightstand of hotels across America. Funny how things turn out? Well, you know, it's in the nightstands but it's there for... It's there for you to look at it and if you look at it long enough, you might, you know… At least not standing by the nightstands, there is not a person saying do you have any questions about that? Oh! No, no, no that can't be it right? It was actually illegal

1:02:03 put this stuff into the vulgar languages of the people for many centuries. It was death penalty by, you know... by horrendous means if you translated these words into English or into French. It had to be in languages that the people generally couldn't understand, so you could also say that the impulse to put it on the nightstands across the country is actually stemming from the idea that hey these words actually do have revolutionary power to help the individual and I will set...to your point about killing someone

1:02:40 for teaching the truth. How horrendous is that? To say, to ever argue that it could possibly be okay to kill someone for an idea or for what they say right you know use of force and Mark Passio talks about this I don't know if you've ever had him on your show i've listened to some of your episodes but he talks about this Force is not always wrong If somebody running at you with a knife raised in the air and they're terrible expression on their face that they're about to stab it into your forehead and screaming, and they're coming at you full speed. And you don't think

1:03:17 Get away any other way than to actually physically engage that guy and stop him. There's nothing wrong with doing that You're protecting you've got this human body That is this amazing thing we can talk about how the human body is a microcosm of the whole universe And this guy's threatening to pull the plug on it, you have every right To stop him by the use of force and that's not violence but if somebody walks up to you in in a you know, on the streets of the city and says to you I believe this. And you hit him over the head with... You know then it's violence because your actually violating his right How could it ever be right to use force against someone who is just trying to teach an idea? See that's where... Agreed! ...You know its so horrible, like... Yeah! ..I just wanted to get that out Like how could anyone ever teach that killing over quote unquote heresy could ever be

1:04:13 Right, you know that is such an abomination. So anyway, I'm with you man But David man this it has been a real blast I think you make a great case and I really respect your journey from eating up the literals perspective hook line and sinker to coming out the complete other direction And being on the forefront of alternative research It could not have been easy men but before we go Do you want to tell the people a little bit more about your blog or anything else? You're working on where they can get your book and keep up with their work Yeah, sure. Thanks so I just want to first say it's been my pleasure and I want to Really commend you and wish you the best with the higher side chats success? I know it's gonna be it's already successful right but thanks man But I just want to say your I think My view of what you're doing is fighting

1:04:58 On the side of knowledge, what we just said was the most important thing. You're on the side of higher consciousness and waking up right? So that's that's the forefront of the battle what you're doing right there so by making this platform and airing out all these different views, and of course you're going to get some different views here there and everywhere but you're making a place for people to go hear them. So that's fantastic! And I just want to commend you for that. Thanks man. Yeah so i encourage everybody and I'm gonna be a regular listener to both hours I've heard so far, and have listened to a bunch. To get the book you can go to your local bookstore and ask for it.

1:05:43 You can support whatever channel you want to support. If you want to get it through Amazon, if that's the easiest and cheapest place for you and the fastest shipping then do that. If you want to support your local bookstore say hey have you heard of The Undying Stars? You can get it from anyone who sells books We'll order it, should be able to order it for you with no problem. It's called the Undying Stars. You can easily find I've got a blog where there's just lots of three and 1⁄2 years worth of free content you can read and search. And there's indexes in there too over 50 different star myths that from all different mythologies that I've linked to and explained hey this is the constellations that are links to so

1:06:25 That blog is easy enough to find. It's called the Matheson Corollary because that was the title of my first book and when I started this blog it was right when i published my first book, The Matheson Corollary but you can easily find it just by spelling my name into any search engine as you see it up on the screen here on the higher side chats. If you just spell my name right, put David Matheson stars or just David Matheson and you should find my blog is one of the top search results but my website is davidmatheson.com will get you there and the blog is called The Matheson Corollary and there's lots of I hope interesting and informative stuff there for people to check out so

1:07:03 Right on well very cool man. Thanks so much for your kind words and for joining me on the show It has been great I mean it is a consciousness war and our numbers are growing every day So keep doing what you do and take care of yourself out there Thanks a lot Greg, it's been a pleasure to make your acquaintance first and get to talk to you fantastic conversation Likewise men thanks again Whoa folks, just whoa. I really enjoyed that show David is a good dude And I think he makes some great movie analogies which is really important in my book But his book is pretty good for anyone interested several interesting aspects some we didn't get to talk about one of them was uh

1:07:41 the subject of waves and the importance of frequency where they have these super thin plates that you can place sand on and hit with it, hit it with a certain frequency. And you'll always get the same pattern. When you look at these patterns and compare them to ancient carvings and representations of Medusa and The Green Man They look almost identical as if they were drawing these faces in a way of representing that frequency really interesting stuff You can find more about that in The Undying Stars And if you enjoyed the first hour with David, you can pick up THC Plus and get the extended show. In this episode during the extended show we expanded more on what the secrets of these ancient texts really reveal What David describes as the shamanic holographic universe He elaborates on quantum physics breaks down The Hireside Chats and outlines the shamanic journey that is The Lego Movie. And most importantly the story of Josephus

1:08:37 Mithraism and the infiltration of the Roman Empire by these members of Mithraism. And to me, that's huge! There is a huge amount of manipulation involved that has had far-reaching effects I mean we might not have gotten to the top of the pyramid in this conversation but we got pretty close That said, thanks for listening everyone. We made it through the end of August without any major disasters praise Allah for that and I hope the three-day weekend for Labor Day was great for all the folks who have that kind of job and I hope you're all on the path to demanding more out of your life And instead of waiting for success to show up on a doorstep You're actively pushing towards the fulfillment of your dreams in life paths and you're doing what thou wilt and whatnot

1:09:18 And as this show closes out, think about what you're going to do next. Make it something to better your life! Create something that makes you feel good, impress your partner with some random romance, meditate or at least get down on the ground and do 50 push-ups or something... Anything so that you're a slightly more accurate reflection of the fractal nature of this goddamn perfect universe than you were before There is a reality out there where you are the cock of the walk, baby. The smartest most charming charismatic ripped intelligent person in the room with the washboard abs of Zac Efron or for the ladies the thigh gap of all thigh gaps That reality exists start pulling yourself into it right now and I'll see you there when you arrive

1:09:59 But hopefully we learned a little something today or were reminded of truth we sometimes forget, or marginalize as unimportant when its effects on our global culture are as severe as ever. Thanks again to David and all you, your making my dreams come true and I suppose that's it for me this week! I won't take up any more of your valuable time, we both know you gotta get out there and own this fucking day so play on player here is inspirational and enlightening track from our previous guest the mathemagician Marty Leeds This one is called Song for the Damon, and I'll see you next week. Your move members of the Mythraic Mystery Schools! Your fucking move...

1:10:58 I'm looking for more when i've had enough. I'll fall in down just to stand back up and with my own two hands, I drink these waters up. Following the path of the stars above The riddle of this life I may just solve And for no other reason than cause... I choose love! I choose love! I choose love! For no other reason than cause.. I CHOOSE LOVE I got the summer face and the moon at my back. I'm treading through time looking for my path, And it's been going with wolves just yet. Tales of tales are my lies Try not to run when this story ends My true self will pass No more when nothings left The treasures of gold lay in my chest In my heart it beats to the song I set in west

1:12:17 Following the path of the stars above The riddle of this life I may just solve And for no other reason than cause, I choose love. I choose love, Love, love! I choose love For what? The reason and cause I choose love I take time to sing for the day She takes the time To sing to me When I listen

1:13:15 Got my dreams up ahead and nightmares on hold The cold of these times ain't got me frozen I know what is above is the same as what's below In this shot or the part, I'm either up on stage Or lost in the dark Mark your own words in the X or find your spot And what I need aint so easy The journey is what is most pleasing With my own two hands I'll get just what I need I choose love, I choose love, love, love.