Alex Tsakiris | The Consciousness Quarantine, Skeptiko, & Data From The Fringe

00:04 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man Until we've thoroughly tested every last closed chested view Find the more you think, know less you really do Where would we be without THC? We know the lying to us just don't know to what degree. Where would we be without THC? The high side, Chad Shore, Greg Carlwood and company

01:00 Alright, higher side chatters as time goes on sometimes it seems like we spend so much time in the alternative we nearly forget what's really holding up consensus reality. Because the idea that the physical is all that exists – that consciousness is nothing more than a trick of the brain has been proven false without a doubt even in my limited experience Not to mention the mountain of research done on remote viewing, near-death experience, precognition, dimethyltryptamine, self healing and many other phenomenon we can clearly see exist yet somehow remain completely ignored and dismissed by the gatekeeping priesthood from on high of what we call scientism.

01:37 And that goes for the realm of geopolitical conspiracy too, because we have plenty of information to show that our regulatory agencies are more for show than for safety. We know false flags have been used to start many major conflicts and it's clear to see that powerful people almost without exception come from the same old network of interlocking secret clubs and think tanks such as Skull & Bones, Freemasonry, Bohemian Grove, The CFR, The Bilderberg Group, and all the like But ask any person on the street and they'll tell you that it all amounts to nothing because it wasn't on the evening news. Well, these are things today's guest Alex Sikiris knows all too well in that he and I really are on parallel journeys. Alex is the host of The Popular Skeptico Podcast and the author of Why Science Is Wrong About Almost Everything, and he saw the cracks crevices and gaping holes ignored by academia

02:27 And instead of finding a spoonful of sugar to help that medicine of denial go down, he embarked on a podcasting journey to dig into the weirder data and talk to the bright minds and brilliant researchers that are just outside the box that could tell the stories carefully kept out of mainstream. So here he is people, a fellow SoCal kindred spirit. A data-driven digital detective and confrontational co-conspirator in the plot to overthrow the oligarchs of sanctioned ideas and break the consciousness quarantine... My friend and yours Alex, welcome to The Fuckin' Hireside Greg amazing introduction is usual great to be here as you know my huge fan of the show so it's gonna be fun, you are too kind man and yes it's gonna be a real blast thanks for doing that long overdue your kind enough to let my stupid stoner ramblings take up one of your episodes and I'm really psyched they can get over here on my weirdo show now.

03:22 And I wanted to start this episode in that kind of classic Skeptico fashion and find a point of difference that we could have a little friendly sparring over. But, I honestly struggled to find much it seems like were pretty well aligned on the big ticket items The fact that psychedelics do have value but also were used in mind control experiments and attempts at culture shaping. That the climate change movement is about control, vaccines have been weaponized and the data suppressed. The material atheist model is wrong and breaking down more all the time 9-11 was clearly an inside job

03:58 UFOs are both nuts and bolts spacecraft AND have a key consciousness component. Powerful people know things about what we call magic that are hidden from us, the data we have is rarely the full story when you factor in conspiratorial cabals, we both love Southern California... I mean shit man is there a point of difference that ya think we disagree on? We'll find one, believe me. It's my specialty area." Yes! I love it. But no, you've hit on a bunch of points there that we are in agreement with. We're coming at it from a slightly different angle. You are way ahead of the curve in terms of understanding and trying to understand and integrate the conspiratorial aspect of it. I really started out as a guy who was asking some really basic science questions

04:49 Who are we why are we here in the process of asking those questions and trying to get answers from. The people i thought were the smartest people that people like you said who were ordained and sanctioned be the holders of that knowledge i just ran smack dab freight train head-on into conspiracy at every turn, into lies half trues misinformation misdirection all the kind of stuff that is your bread and butter. And that's where I think we truly are kindred spirits because it's then getting past that. I mean like I like to say Skeptico for me has evolved into a three part process follow the data wherever it leads

05:32 Look for the conspiracy, because if you don't it's going to bite you in the ass. You're gonna be taking in stuff that you shouldn't be taking in and then finally find the deep spirituality For me that's answering those questions Who am I really? Why am I here at the end of the day If I'm not getting some little piece of information That moves me closer to that deeper spirituality Well then I haven't really done much Well said and I do love those three guidelines. I'm right there with you, and the biggest criticism I get is that I don't challenge my guests in some of their wild claims enough and to me that is one of the most fun parts of Skeptico where you sort of do the opposite and question your guest's conventional claims. And it's so interesting to see those episodes where an academic finds themselves in a hot seat.

06:26 When you do these types of interviews, do you see a certain pattern emerge when you challenge the paradigm of these PhDs? Sometimes their behavior and reactions can be pretty telling right. Yeah it's really something that has truly evolved over the time i mean i need to go into it thinking that thats what im going to do i really want you to do it, can i easily thinking with these people could backup what they're saying and i'm just kind of naturally someone who is some from chicago you know your friend was very show me state you got a little bit of that in the home from chicago wise guy like hey what are you talking about back it up when people didn't back it out then it kind of. In bolden need to move even further in that direction and then,

07:15 And what I found really just is the best, is presenting people with their own writing and where it's a misrepresentation of the research as its known to be. You know? Presenting someone where they've misquoted somebody...I mean how can you not do that?! If you see where they've misquoted or misinterpreted something then I think that has to put on the table and I do so… I could tell you a quick story about that if you want. Absolutely, i love these little stories! Well since a lot of what i do like i said is this consciousness related research stuff...I had this occasion talking to this woman head of this department at this university in San Francisco

08:00 Since her whole department about consciousness i was like keen to drill into this little bit because i thought she missed the boat as we were chatting a little bit about prior to the interview that is consciousness thing Really is fundamentally about some deep things about who we are we these biological robots his consciousness and illusion or is there something more in you ask any six year old and he'll say no there's something more i'm real i have feelings you know it's totally absurd and its probably hard for some of your listeners to even believe that.

08:37 Mainstream science still dabbles with and primarily supports the idea that consciousness your day by day minute by minute experience of who you are. Is nothing but an illusion i mean that is a crazy idea imagine you know your you think you're you say hello, and there's something good observes that in here is that you know that's not An illusion you know if anything in the world is real that's really you are real and yet. Science still dabbles with this idea that consciousness is an illusion and a while we can talk about why they do what's at stake for them if they let go of that, idea that as you said introduction really doesn't make any sense back to the story sometimes woman. Yeah pretty hard

09:31 She's probably used to people kissing her ass pretty good and i'm not being rude or anything but i'm kinda be a little bit pushy and finally she goes why do you care. Any kind of set me back a little bit because it's like why don't i care, Why the fuck don't you care more yes i mean isn't this the fundamental question that we should be asking isnt this what it's really all about your playing all these games with rewording this stuff in misquoting research and not being a tune to the researcher said you know near-death experience neuroplasticity reincarnation science you know as it done at university virginia

10:09 genetics and epigenetics you know all this stuff which falsifies this materialistic you are a robot meaningless universe paradigm all that kind of collapses in she said why do you care. Will i do care to turn it back to you, that's one of the things no bullshit but i really really appreciate about the higher side chats It's not conspire attainment because there is a lot of stuff out there that is conspiratorial what i feel like when i'm listening to your show is. You care about the underlying truth you care about nudging closer to is this true is this not true and. That to me it's the corollary with the consciousness stuff because if we're not biological robots in a meaningless universe if were more than i think we are then there's a lot of shit that we gotta sort through

11:05 Well said man and I appreciate the kind words. And before this started we were talking about that science of consciousness conference something that happened in our neck of the woods and i really wish i would hit you up so we could go together because it is way more than your wheelhouse but so many of the presentations by these Silicon valley folks were about building a better and where they are with that process it was always about building a computer based off of the brain structure, add i'm sitting there at the least educated person in the room and i think i haven't heard one person bring up the fact

11:43 that there's an element to our mind that is not the physical brain. I mean, it's not the physical brain that's floating out of our body for astral travel. It's not the physical brain that is floating around doing the remote viewing that apparently actually happens as hard as that might be to believe, the data supports it and so there's obviously something else there and it's just crazy an entire field of you'd think the brightest minds are in denial about it. I think they're too smart to be in denial, in some cases and I think that obviously like you said conspiracy touches on these areas

12:20 It sure does and i was credit our buddy gordon white with being one of the first people really drive this home to me but there's a great conspiracy story in this one as well because if you look into the deep state shadow governments interest. In consciousness it really started, I hate to tie the ufo's but it really started right about the time that we suspect they started getting some information about you have those in the occupancy of those ufos and some of them mind technology that they had in terms of telepathy and all the rest, what is your not quite ready to go there just set that aside and just look at the.

13:02 product of that research right so you have mk ultra the famous mind control project of the fifties where they did all these horrible experiments on people but it was all about understanding how to manipulate control weaponize if you will consciousness. And they weren't under the illusion that it was an illusion. They were way past that, and if you want even more evidence of that look at the Stargate program you referenced again remote viewing so take it out to Stanford Research Institute right up the road Hal put off Russell Targ, Uri Geller all names people might recognize they're doing remote viewing, they're doing psychic spying on Russians

13:48 the Chinese and American people of course they never include them in the list but of course they're doing that. This completely presupposes that consciousness is more, that consciousness is as you say outside of the brain as well as inside the brain because we do know there's a relationship between the brain and consciousness so anyways How are these guys from like this how are they front at this conference how is the park chopra who on one hand it's kinda speaking out of one side was not going oh yeah you know what so much more but then can rub shoulders with all the silicon valley guys and go hey man if you can build a high end do it. Then do it cuz we can build a machine in its all brain based up i mean there is a real conspiracy in terms of how consciousness,

14:39 has been assumed to be more by the deep state so assume to be spirits are somehow in the realm. Demons and all the rest that stuff hey we gotta consider that as part of the realm remote view and we got a consider that parts around but the marching orders, did have been given to academic science is Pretend like none of that is real and it's not like as you and I could talk about and I'm sure you'd agree You know a lot of people mishear that they think oh, you know There's some big smoky room where everyone gets together and gives their marching orders. You know, he'll say this you don't say this I don't think that's how it happened

15:19 I think it's more the useful idiot model, you know. You just find someone who is parroting what you already want to say and you put a few breadcrumbs out in front of them, few pieces of cheese and let him continue to go through the maze the way you want him do it and you never touch that guy! And then people who are saying the wrong thing we know what happens with them. People are saying oh no there are these other realms, there is this spirituality or this spirit realm that we have to consider We prune those off the tree you know we cut off their research or worse so how do you see that useful idiot vs inside player thing working out is one thing i really wanted to, so many questions but that was one of them that i wanted to ask sure what you know i'm not really married two very many models but i would say like you if i were to guess i think it's kind of.

16:13 a lot more useful idiots out there than it is people who are actually meeting in those dark rooms. Because the way I see it, all they had to do was control the education boards and control the universities and once you get in there in those formative years of the American academia system, you create the content And so you're going to breed all kinds of useful idiots because you're the ones giving out the certificates and chastising those who are going in other directions. You control the career pipelines of all the scientific realms, So right there is how you kind of control the narrative and anyone who wants to be successful

16:53 in those pools has to do things your way or they just won't be and that creates the culture of self-policing. These people will call out their own colleagues if they're going in these weird areas so I really think it's that easy sadly I totally agree with you and i think that's exactly how it does play out. You know, I think there is another angle to it too and I had a excellent guest on who talked about this guy as a scientist for the longest time at Virginia Tech and taught science in the history of science His point that he added to it was, that you have economic or market forces added to that. That in the 50s there was this glut of PhD's because we were all pro-science after World War II and we saw these opportunities to make money off technology so its like hey go for it but what happened is then the market shrunk

17:47 And then there were fewer and fewer dollars being chased by more and more PhDs who we built the system like you said to crank it out. And it kind of had that effect of making even easier to control people because now, if these fewer dollars interview can hold on those dollars, you can really get the rats fighting and get them to say exactly what you want to say. My guy's name is Dr Henry Bauer great guy a great books and influential ideas Now, another question that I wanted to try to hit early on was the question of why. Like why do you think consciousness and things like near-death experience and remote viewing research are such a threat to the establishment? Why does this state feel the need to dig their heels in on this idea that consciousness doesn't exist when the church had been able to rule over us pretty damn well when the idea of a soul was pretty standard

18:42 Well, you might have hit on part of the reason. I think that's kind of a false dichotomy that's been set up this idea of science versus religion but to whatever extent it It's been set up it's pretty well established and they play off it beautifully right so you're either in atheistic scientist or your religious person you know whenever you start talking about spirituality people wind up saying what are you, no which is like right you have to be pigeonholed you know i'm a catholic jewish and ridiculous idea there all these traditions that are based on.

19:19 Cultish practices and controlling people you know i piss off a lot of people when i say that but i don't know how you can really interpret that. any differently sure there might have been some spiritual truths behind that but thats kinda where it evolved. But its even worse when you look over on the atheistic science side, I mean their proposition again that we're biological robots in a meaningless universe is completely absurd and falsified like we say but as to why they bet everything on this proposition because if consciousness is more

19:57 Then they have to go back to the church. They have to come back to their arch enemy on the other side and say, oh shit you were right there is more to consider in since as scientists our job are whole idea is that we can measure outside world we can measure it compare contrasted and report back to about how it works if u introduce now the idea that fundamentally Consciousness is overriding or underlying how you wanna put it but the consciousness is fundamental to all that. Now all bets are off, you know as I said in the book give example of boiling water let's take the most simple science experiment you can think of its like what temperature does water boil at?

20:45 And some guy goes okay that's easy it's not two hundred and twelve degrees farenheit whatever they go well hold on i have to control for all the variables, what if you're up on the top of really high mountain okay well yeah we have to control for altitude that very good so we have to get all our controls in place. Okay Consciousness is not illusion. There's a spiritual realm, is that influencing the boiling water? How many angels were on the head of the thermometer when you placed it in the water? These are on one hand absurd questions but science can look around the corner and see that if it lets the game go, that's where it goes right? It goes to where those questions

21:26 Do you have to be put on the table and science at that point is obsolete itself in saying we've done the best we can. With this kind of little game that we played but since consciousness extends beyond what we can measure currently extends beyond what we can observe then our game is up, we have to put an asterisk by everything we do inside we did the best we could But we weren't able to factor in consciousness because well, nobody understands how many angels fit on the head of a thermometer You know right and I do think you're correct. And it is a false dichotomy That's been set up to kind of control both sides Of course something I'm always reminded of is the Big Bang Theory was cooked up by a Vatican astronomer? You know The Book of Genesis for scientists came from the same source

22:16 that is the complete opposite side of the coin. I just find that fascinating, that one little point and i guess i would say we really need to know exactly what those 50s projects discovered about consciousness so that we could really understand why they hit us so hard in the later years with material atheism because i think that's kind of the key to understanding it We have speculations that they're breaking the minds of children and opening up portals to communications with entities and you really gotta wonder like what the hell did they discover that.

22:52 I would say that the material atheism rollout was a real reaction to because I went to a private Catholic school and in my environment, I was rebellious. And the best way to be a rebel was to be a material atheist, to bring Christopher Hitchenson's book to class. I knew I was pushing right up against that line of getting in serious trouble and you're not going to actually send a kid to the principal's office for bringing a book to class that says God is not real but But you might want to. And so, to me at that time in my life that was really interesting but I can look back and acknowledge that Christopher Hitchens Richard Dawkins a lot of these guys came out at the same time with New York Times bestsellers about atheism and now it does look like a rollout to me It's kind of curious in retrospect Do you have those same thoughts?

23:41 Well i view it as multifaceted the discussion we're having about how the educational process works and i think you nailed it, can control the institutions in the educational boards of education committees more importantly control the money that grants that whole system. you can shape it in a direction where it then becomes a self perpetuating machine that goes in this certain direction and I think a lot of the materialistic your biological robot, any meaningless universe stuff is nothing more than that it's setting the wheels in motion and then they just run their own course.

24:17 But this is the conspiratorial work that you do, and why I think it's so important to raise that and to ask that question. To what extent was there this manufactured resistance on the part of the quote-unquote new atheists? Because there are two ways of looking at it—there's the angle which you took but But also remember that at that time, there was a rise of the religious right in the United States particularly from a political standpoint. George Bush figured out that even though he was a fake Christian, he could really win over a lot of Christians with this shtick that he did. So some of it was no doubt a political reactionary movement to that but was there another element as you're suggesting? Hey man, of course that's on the table.

25:04 And to further the point of why this stuff would be a threat, well just imagine if the floodgates were truly open. What if 100 million Joe Schmoes were trying to remote view the Pentagon backroom meetings or project their consciousness into the Vatican vault? You know that could be something that the elite would want to worry about. Or, you know self-healing if that was really explored it would completely disrupt Big Pharma's money train. It could open up doors to magic who knows how powerful and awakened citizenry really could be? It's also the same reason that the ancients are made to look so stupid. You talk about a lot of these realms of science well you know it also ties into archaeology and anthropology in just

25:49 Exploration of our ancestors egyptology i mean there's a clamp down in those areas to because i think that you can almost draw continuity between. The shutdown of all that stuff by the roman empire and then what we have today which is a culture of academics it says there's nothing to see their they were all stupid they're lucky that we brought them civilization and this is how we do things now and really does seem to be kind of a big umbrella that covering the same type of secrets generation after generation. And let me come at it from another angle as well that doesn't take away from all those are the potential of all those how about the basic fact. When we make people feel alone when we make him feel afraid, when we make them feel disempowered like they don't have any and power in their life and ability to do anything

26:44 What are those the kind of people that are a lot easier to control to manipulate to heard from here to there and then a bunch of wild ass free thinkers who think that limits of their consciousness have no limits in the they can explore in be whoever they are and that they're not attached to what they can buy and what they consume i mean, Which group do you want if you wanna heard the cats you know i want to submissive alone afraid ones no doubt. I mean it consciousness affects matter that is just a huge problem for the like yes,

27:22 You can also say we see a similar thing with ufo's it might not be that flying saucers themselves are the problem, it may be how easy they are to make or how disruptive they would be to the oil and energy industries and apparently open the doors too possibly some type of off-the-table physics that could really change humanity have also heard quotes from tesla that suggest. That with very little effort for resources a person could use his technologies or his understanding of science to cause a lot of destruction things that would make the atom bomb look small by comparison and obviously, that's a concern to the elite and everybody but I've heard some kind of elite apologist say well they have to suppress all this stuff because it is destructive power. Maybe but its also disruptive to their piggy bank so let's not discount that element

28:14 We've been down that path way too many times to fall for that. We need to protect you and here's how we're gonna do it, we're going take away all your rights, all the information that we promised to give you will just take it all away from me but there is another aspect of that I think is very interesting to me in a certainly current news because you see drip by drip obvious Disclosure charade that is the time to long new york times thing and i say it's a straight not because it isn't real but because of, the way they framed right the new york times releases the reality of ufos and no one says well.

28:54 Obviously, this opens the floodgates for the understanding that this has been going on for 60 years. It's not like this is the only program so the government is known and lied to us there are all these questions but I digress slightly one part of why aren't those questions being asked? But more importantly to me what is being substituted and introduced as a question we should ask what are the questions Tom DeLonge is directing us towards and those Hey how can we use this to get free energy and i like wait a minute i'm in the deep spirituality on why are we who are we why are we here and i'm saying you just. Dropped the consciousness bomb in terms of we are more there other beings that are more there's this apparent realm that is outside of our existence where ufo et near death experience people who have dmt experiences like

29:51 Rick strassman's patients at new mexico who dropped the dmt and then go to this other realm and there are the graze in a say. Glad you're here we've been waiting for you so there is this whole other room that we now explore that completely redefine who we are it what is time long saying hey buddy how about some free energy offer that was like fuck your free energy no how does redefines who i am Right right that is obviously a huge question as well and i really do like looking at blank one eighty two through the lens of like a dave mcgowan or even joe at will.

30:31 And looking at his father you know tom de long senior he was an oil company executive his mother was a mortgage broker so oil and banking right off the bat mark hoppus the guy who's in the band with them is father works for us department of defense designing missiles and bombs add the navy testing center out here and so both of these guys are super connected in this is a bit of attention but travis barker seems to be the only one in that band with actual humble beginnings and funny enough there's a curious element his story he was always afraid to fly as teenage years he was

31:07 quote unquote, sure he was going to die in some kind of plane crash. Also when Blink-182 was putting together artwork for that Take Off Your Pants and Jacket album in 2001 they created an icon for each band member a jacket, a pair of pants and an airplane. And Travis is quoted saying please don't give me the plane I have a really fucked up fear of flying but in the end they gave it to him anyway and sure enough he almost did die in a terrible plane crash there's that eerie intuition at play number one but also the idea that these things don't seem to happen to people in the club as much as they happen to people right around the club and that's of course a tangent but it just raises a whole lot of red flags about why this would be the band, why Tom DeLonge would be THE guy that The Deep State thinks

31:54 the population is going to trust. I mean, I just think they were way off in that and that's why he's kind of drifted to the background because they just thought that he had our trust and one of the things it didn't go well was his Joe Rogan interview but it just doesn't seem like the operation they were running took the way they wanted it to take. I think you're spot on and I don't think I saw that right away I reacted more to this free energy thing but i tell you one thing that think that you just touched on and this is like pure conspiracy stuff but it also relates to the kind of skeptical mission in where you see why i've come to the conclusion that if your not in the conspiracy game you're not in the truth game in general i mean if you just trying to find figure out science

32:40 If you're not in the conspiracy game, you're not gonna figure it out. I think the idea that the culture shapers if you will, the people who are running these little games are much more in the reactive mode than they are in a proactive mode. They were just throwing shit up against the wall and see if it sticks So that's why i wouldn't quite go as far with the time to long thing and not totally shut down to that but i think it's more like hey this guy pops up raises his hand and says, hey i'm really interested in this and I wanna do it. And some guys is because how could we use that mf man he's perfect.

33:20 ringing all our bells that we want. Bring him in, buddy! Let's give him the gospel and see what happens." And I think you're totally right. I think they ran that thing and they went out and all indications are they thought it was gonna fly. They thought the New York Times thing and everyone would be...and it didn't. None of us know why. Is everyone distracted? Is everyone already past that? Did everyone see through The sure way that it is or the half truth that it is we don't know if they don't know either that would be my contention just throwing shit against the wall and seeing how it sticks and when it doesn't stick then there's a guy in the back of the room that says,

34:04 is, you know what? We can use that too. And the next round we see will be based on... That didn't work and we learned something from that so let's do this." Right! They can always back out of a plan. That's kind of something people don't seem to realize. You can fill the 60s youth with psychedelics and if you don't like the way they react to it – if they become too anti-establishment, anti authoritarian, anti war – you just usher in the War on Drugs and lock them all up Exactly, Greg. Exactly! And like Joe Atwell is awesome I love talking to him and learn so much from him but i think that's where you're kind of teasing me about the conspiracy pushback and what we might disagree on...I mean I think there are so many areas too be a little bit more critical over our own community You know? So Joe Atwell has done as you just interviewed him and I'm sure guys talk about this

34:59 culture shaping thing that the CIA or the shadow government's been involved with no doubt but then to think that they can have it all planned out and worked out the way I did. I think is the wrong road to go down and i think you have to challenge that a little bit in consider the alternative like what you just said to me makes a million times more sense in that oh shit you know what else do you think that's doing exactly what we didn't want to do it with lighting up everybody and making them open to a greater reality how we can fix that will come in with the war on drugs.

35:36 Absolutely i think it just makes so much sense when you consider the mind state of some these deep players they're just not thinking about that awakening that would occur there only thinking about weaponization about truth serums, that kind of stuff and how they can use it so i think when they pushed out there and maybe this is real speculative but maybe they learned about a connection between opening portals and entities and these entheogens let's see what happens we give it to thousands of people you know let's see what happens when we get the tens of thousands of people if anything reacts to it and no obviously that way out there but i definitely think you can always put the genie back in a bottle when you pretty much have control culture i kinda think thats what occupy was they like that then go,

36:25 in new york for a long time it was a big community they had a lending library there making meals people are donating things and then when you're done seeing how that experiment plays out you send the cops nuts gone in two days yeah it's that simple but Another thing i wanted to ask you about is we don't really get into the scientific data or the research on consciousness and side effects very often cuz i think some of the listeners here maybe take those things for a given but this isn't area where your very knowledgeable and we all have to deal with conventional thinkers in life so it's good to have some ammunition for the alternative

37:02 Let me ask it this way. If you met a material atheist in a bar, what is the research that you're citing to best make the case that there's more to the model than just the physical? What would you confront them with? What is the couple ways you could go when you could take your drink and walk the other way because that's never gonna change that mind you know belief systems especially these kind are really hard to penetrate anyone who's listening this show already knows that has had enough thanksgiving dinner conversations to know that people are married to their beliefs in a strange way that doesn't allow for a lot of change but as far as research the really

37:42 I think clincher is the near death experience science research but you don't really want to start with that because they've already kind of poison that well a little bit they being other side, holding on to materialist science and throw at all these reasons we don't really know that their dad in it. That's why we call it your dad then if there dead date didn't come back or those say when the brain is in that state, it still can record some kind of consciousness as we've shown at the university of michigan and the rats who after they died still had a burst brain now let me since i brought it up tell you that counter to all those arguments. Of course let me back on to the near death experience everybody knows is this widely reported phenomenon that after people die they have an experience conscious memory of both their dying process but then what happened after they died

38:41 And not only is that a contemporary idea, but you can find that in Plato back in the ancient Greeks. You can find it all through history and through just about every culture that you look at which is also assigned scientists look at for real phenomenon that is spread across cultures and across time so if you look at And then you say, okay are these near-death experiences really happening? We have a couple of reasons to think that they really do happen. One is that people have a continuous conscious experience from the time they had what typically happens is somebody has a heart attack or somebody has a car accident and their heart stops and immediately they pop outside their body and looking down on their body

39:32 So at this point we don't know the physical condition of their brain but what we do know through fifty years of work with studies on animals and humans is that within usually ten to fifteen seconds but it's almost one minute. Brain activity that we would associate with a conscious experience stops And i was careful the way that i said that because again you got the university of michigan in a little burst and rats and all this other bullshit that they throw into just muddy the water, call the neurological data all the neurological research we have associated with egs and other ways of measuring conscious experience in the traditional sense suggest brain activity stops

40:20 within usually 15 seconds after the heart stops so if people can reliably report. Conscious experiences long after their heart has stopped well, then you got a real problem for science of real problems or materialism the study i always like to point out people cuz it kind of handles all this stupid arguments that people make is some research that was done by doctor penny sartori in the uk and also done by dr jane holden university north texas what they did was really simple. I took a group

40:57 cardiac patients people who are admitted to the hospital cause their heart is not so good if they go to him before hand and they say hey. you might have a heart attack. If you do have a heart attack, we'd like your permission that we're going to do this survey with you." So they get people who agree with that and then invariably people who have heart attacks. When the people of heart attacks and their resuscitated they go home with the survey in the surveys really simple it's divided up into two groups control group and those are people who had the heart attack but didn't haven't near-death experience

41:34 They don't claim to have any near-death experience, any memory of what happened after they died. The other group is the group that had a near death experience and then they ask them a series of very simple questions about their resuscitation They say hey do you recall your resuscitation may have to know that in most modern hospitals contrary to what you see on tv. Resuscitation and the paddles and all the rest of doesn't happen for an average one two minutes after their heart stops, So again we're outside of that window when there should be any brain activity when the resuscitation starts so they go and i start asking these people, what was the resuscitation process like make have specific questions in the ass the control group didn't have a new death experience and they say what are you talking about

42:25 I don't remember anything. And they said, well just do your best what do you think? and they wind up answering with this stuff that sounds like a TV movie, ya know oh then they came over at the paddles and all this and that happened...and then they asked the other group And the other group says, Oh no. I'll tell you exactly what happened as a matter of fact there weren't any paddles they started doing compressions on my chest but the nurse wasn't big enough so she called over this other doctor and then he took over and Shima went around and put something on my head and they did this but i remember that the nurse had this strange clip hanging off the side of her thing

43:01 all these details, right? The control group doesn't have. So one small study, one small example that blows away and again this is published peer reviewed journal It's academic, by scientists, PhDs who know what they're doing. And when you have survival of consciousness after death it completely closes the case and we can talk about self-directed neuroplasticity we can talk about epigenetics We can talk about a million other things but that near death experience science like I just described its case closed there is really no reason to go on after that

43:41 Right. Yeah, I'm so glad you detailed that and it makes sense because if you're going along in your vehicle and your car battery dies or the tank runs out of gas You open your door and you get out of the driver's seat. Yeah, so you know if consciousness is kind of the true us in this vehicle of a meat body it just seems like that's the no-brainer that just how it happens of course a little more automatic in case of consciousness but I can see similarities and I really love that you're able to get some people on that not only can confirm this kinda research but also ones who still deny it and to be honest, initially I was hesitant to listen to Skeptico because of the name.

44:31 I really think that name works to your advantage because some researchers who just think of it as another media appearance they might not dig any deeper and have completely conventional research and they go on a show called skeptical too, make their points in there confronted with the lions den and i just think thats so great maybe if i call my show the consensus side chat i could have some of those conversations do but they just won't come and talk to me. Can i just tell you something there is kind of funny story Yeah, the name Skeptico came about because you know I started this thing really early on and i was

45:06 I was kind of looking at these skeptics and I wanted to understand if they really had a position because I thought there was this other side to this. But, I was much more open to their being a real genuine argument there but anyways the synchronicity story is that I was kinda hung up on the skeptical thing and I'm a genuine skeptic! I really don't know what I believe So I have this greek american background and i found the skeptic cause of that there is group of thinkers in ancient greece and they questioned everything. Great i don't even look any further just plug it into dns search okay its available grab it you know skeptical with kato

45:46 Not until five years later do i say you know at least understand what these guys were all about this is five years later and not super on the ball on this thing. I read this one sentence that stuck with me forever it's, these philosophers in ancient greece who followed the idea of inquiry to perpetuate doubt wow Is that beautiful inquiry to perpetuate doubt and to me that has meaning in so many different levels but isn't that where we wanna be, perpetuating doubt not knowing no coming down for sure not saying everything's decided because the deeper we get into this i'm sure you agree it only generates more questions.

46:38 We have a sense of knowing about the direction we're headed and it's kind of good but the spiritual process is a process of doubt baby, perpetual doubt. Yeah man and I do like that story you're right skeptic has kinda been a term that has changed its meaning or means different things to different people but That interpretation of being skeptical of the official narrative is the important aspect and I think that's kind of a definition that's in the background for a lot of people these days. And one more point about the near-death experience, it was gonna make is that it's great that some doctors and scientists are open to start talking about what's happening on the operating table with these people but what they don't want to talk about very much

47:21 Is that almost without exception these people even though they see their own resuscitation there also greeted by spirits and given messages about life that sound a lot like the ufo contact these messages that they get when you say. Yes and no i mean more yes than no, Have you ever ran across Ray Hernandez and the free group, The Foundation for Research into Extraterrestrial Experience? I don't think so actually. Interesting guy i'll have to hook you up with him because they're the first people to really do solid research and they have some really heavy hitter research Dr Leo Sprinkler, I think he was at Harvard but I mean he's like 30 years

48:07 PhD researcher but they put together a very good survey and they kind of asked the extended consciousness questions. And the data set they got back is very, very close to what you're saying is that contrary to the way the abduction quote unquote experience has been spun it really looks more like spiritual experience like we'd associate with near death experience or other Extraordinary spiritual experiences like people have with psychedelics not all the time but you get the idea a lot of commonality in these extended consciousness spiritual experience just like you said yeah i mean there's so much connective tissue between all the things that are in the quarantine box and i think that's just.

48:54 so fascinating that they're connected in some way thematically to say the least and back to that point about skeptical and its initial meaning or its original definition of Rejecting the official narrative it's like where are the scientists that are. Going against the official narrative there like nonexistent there should be scientist out there doing gmo guise of fate studies they should be going through the, what seventy vaccines we get the children and double checking the cdc is work they should be testing chemtrails or even cell phones and it's like The entire scientific community doesn't challenge a damn thing or ever test anything. It's just 100% blind consensus out there." Dr. Henry Bower Well, that's why I referenced Dr. Henry Bower in his books and in his research because not disagreeing with anything you're saying it's all that and worse adding the understanding of the economics that are involved

49:51 And the dynamics of promotion and all that you know when i started this many years ago i was at the university arizona now is getting a phd because i had worked for a couple years out in the work force. And only thing i was able to figure out as i sure shit didn't wanna do that you know and all people who are above me i was like, I'm gonna turn into that asshole no way you know i'll go back. I can hang around campuses all the beautiful girls just young girls thinking when you're in your twenties you of course i just do that easy life on the rest so i went back and found it to be, just as bullshitty as the corporate money chasing world net didn't last long but it propelled me to start a company started company based on some technology i've been working at end

50:40 It was a long road of misery and pain and many, many mistakes. But eventually it came out for me. I guess what I learned in that whole thing about academics is that it's a different game than what we think. They're off in their own little world like we always hear about and they're ivory tower. And there's the infighting, and there's the change of focus and just following the cheese I don't think it's quite as back to this thing of you know are they being directed or are they just kind of useful idiots who are being kinda led by the nose? And i think many many more useful idiots. Pick any one of those topics

51:23 We have that kind of discussion i'm with you man like vaccines you know me back seats are they sitting around doing that or they just got out here's the next research resource to do just do it don't question underlying assumptions were making just do what they told us to do you know tested this way never mind that it's not being administered that way or nevermind that work giving eleven year old girls this vaccine that only protects them for five years of Sex related cervical cancer and that accounts for a small percentage of people will be sexually active during the day you never mind just do what they told us to do when that's it don't question. Yeah man and

52:10 Wow this is been great you know you said so many kind things about me and thc and i really do love skeptical, not only do you squeeze a lot out of gas like stanton friedman and michael to sorry on a couple recent shows you did but also those ones where are more combative like the doctor churchland interview and the one you did with The evolutionary guy professor Michael Flannery. Uh-huh? Yeah, those are just great So you really have almost like two shows two different ways of doing the interviews you do and I just think that they really are fascinating and again The biggest criticism I get is not challenging guests enough And I just love the way you do it with a smile still and just based on the data You don't get into emotional arguments. You're like hey look at this. You got to look at it and

53:03 I just think it's such a great way to be. And as we're winding down, you know, I love a guest who does know me and THC quite well because you are so opinionated! I feel like i can take it as well and these things do make us better what would you say are the things you like least about THC? What do I do here that just makes sure roll your eyes in cringe and want to turn it off Oh wow that's tough i mean what do you want to direct response but what i do and i think most people do with my show too is, i pick the guests that i want to listen to and i think thats ok so i guess. The more work you put into selecting guest really make a contribution to this

53:53 Body and knowledge where we can really learn something then that's when i really get excited about thc if i feel like. It's a show that, i've heard before or the disney adding anything new to the body of knowledge on my half then you know just gotta move on cuz it's great shows out there in too many great episodes i haven't listened all the apps of the chc so im just going onto the next episode so Does that hit you know is the guest selection i think it's just so so key yeah i definitely think that's fair and. There might be a filler guess once in awhile of course and you read me that you agree with about forty percent of thc and really disagree with about ten percent can you elaborate on what material or topics fit into if not both categories at least that ten percent

54:45 You're really gonna put me on the spot. Trying to give you a taste of your own medicine, man! Take for example Joseph Farrell. I love him. I think he's great I think his nazi roswell thing is absurd. And i don't know why he persist with this other than he's had this idea out there for a while and you know we just can't back off of it take, chris noles i really like christmas i mean i'm really liking my piece been on the show when its gonna be on the show bunch father times and some information he has is super important in terms of this synchronistic

55:26 Symbology kind of thing that people are into but he's a forty percenter you don't go too far with that stuff it just kinda falls apart when you really push it to fire and always trying to like rain in. Man i really enjoyed the show that i did on astrology because, you know the drill listener sent me a request and said hey there is this guest you should really interview her name is rene also and she is the Julie Byshell of astrology. Now Dr. Julie Byshell is the best medium researcher in the world, PhD in pharmacology completely tuned into how to run a controlled study has applied that on mediumship talking to spirits and has concrete proof that these things really happen right? That's her thing so my ears are perked up when this guy says hey this woman has done this

56:21 quality of research on astrology. So I look at it, sure enough she's published in the Journal Scientific Exploration which i know is a really hard journal to get into if you have a peer-reviewed journal in there, I've interviewed many guests who have they said its the hardest journal they've ever had to get into among all the ones that did so im all on board with doing this and ill make this short because we're kind of wrapping up but We set up the interview and we set it up as a two-parter. First part, you're gonna do an astrology reading for me in second part where we talk about your research. We did the first part, the astrology reading. It's a bomb! She is totally off I'm like hey that's no problem You know i've done a ton of these medium readings on the air and stuff like that its hit or miss I get it she's like No they are not I am 95% accurate

57:12 No one's fucking ninety five percent that's not real that's not how this stuff works so it turned into this really. Interesting interplay people can listen to the full interview but at the end she came on and she has fantastic research that would lead one to conclude there is a reality to astrology But on the other hand, astrological readings and predictions like you got that guy doing it. I don't think that really That's a ten percent there that we're gonna know what's gonna happen next quarter because somebody read the chart of the united states or the world reading like that. Add to the ten percent category for me okay okay i think it sounds too i really do you think were kind of in some cosmic grandfather clock and that definition,

58:03 seems to work if there's a long enough history of it maybe because we're in some type of simulation or it's a rule the game I don't know and I definitely agree. It's not 100% for sure, and I got to let you go but maybe one more thing related to guest selection or really just to give a nod to the good guys you've mentioned several but who are the leaders we should look for and plug for bucking the system yet also staying academic and scholarly? Who are your top people out there right now?" David M. Bock Boy, that's a tough one. I really like Joe Atwell who you just recently interviewed

58:41 You know why I like him? Because everybody hates him. Not everybody hates him, but when you go online... This is like the quintessential skeptical moment for me. There's two of them one interview Joe Atwell and he says hey Christianity is a contrivacy of the Romans And he goes too far with that theory, but along the way he takes you to some really solid shit that will totally undermine anyone who has this belief in the Bible or Christianity. The way it's been told doesn't undermine the underlying spiritual truth that might be there, but it sure undermines the story. But then you look at what people are saying about Joe Atwell like I did and I interviewed these people—some of the top biblical scholars who are carrier and price

59:29 and part airmen no one knows his name is a biblical scholar at duke and illeser obscure fields but i'm digging into this stuff i've talked to these people on the show, add one by one they're falling they put up a good front in their saying they got there shit together and they're fallen like freaking domino's and they're having to admit that oh well yeah i'm just saying he's going too far but yeah, I guess the Bible is pro-Roman. Mark does have all the footprints of Josephus on it." The fundamental issues that people should really care about these guys are having to back off from their publicly stated things—that's the kind of stuff that gets me

1:00:11 fired up because for people who are Christian, it's a game changer. And here is a guy who has withstood all this public criticism on the Internet—all the comments on my thing like, oh this guy has been debunked so many times! No you haven't looked far enough he hasn't been debunked So, he'd be one. Another one of my favorites is I mentioned Dr Jeff Long and just a quick story about him that's the other quintessential skeptical moment. I always remember talking to Jeff who was this top-notch NDE near death experience researcher and he talked about helping this other researcher who was a skeptic of near death experience but Jeff helped them all along the research let him use some of his data

1:00:57 And then jeff read the guys paper when he was done and. Not to get too techie but the guy had concluded that indies were rem intrusion you know when your sleeping the rem cycle this stuff anyways just reading it goes, shit is right oh my god i've been wrong put all my effort into this in a wrong his right And then he can get there is himself and it takes a little bit deeper because they wait a minute you didn't control for that. No he did this only made that assumption oh no he's not right his way off these really good with the data but that moment when i guys willing to say shit i'm wrong,

1:01:40 That to me is what it's all about if you're not open to play in that game then your plan some other games and i don't understand cuz i want just try a little bit closer to the truth and in the process i have to risk. Being wrong all the time because i am gonna be wrong and probably set up a tent in this episode that you know you talk with your friend oh yeah i was fucked up i didn't know when i started but i think that's the edge that run Well i think that is a great story for sure and it does just kind of point out there's many many layers to the stuff and we really need to be careful about what we think, we know or what data or studies are websites we just blindly trust because they're so many different little nuances to how something can go one way or conclusion can come out the other way and

1:02:28 You just gotta be careful even when it's not necessarily ill intentioned like it didn't seem that in that case necessarily is just more about being stuck in a paradigm but also with joe out well got to thank you for hooking us up you know that wouldn't have happened if you had made the connection I don't think and I think it really turned into a good episode but. Either way man, this has been a hell of a ride. I really enjoyed it! I consider you an inspiration and i really love the show you do Remind people where to find it and anything else they should know about keeping up with your work Well that's super nice for you to say Greg It's easy to find You just have to spell Skeptiko with a K S-K-E P-T-I-K-O And then the book Why Science is Wrong About Almost Everything

1:03:12 You know, that's it. We're just out there doing the thing like we do you know the podcasting things so any ideas people have about who they'd like to hear and who is in that science consciousness realm I would love to hear about it. Right on! Cheers for that! Well awesome again big thanks to you for taking time and kind words you've said about me and THC keep doing what you do Okay Greg take care And boom goes the dynamite people. Big thanks to Alex, I'm really happy to know that guy You might remember I mentioned in a show a few weeks back that I wanted to incorporate a little more Skeptico into The Higher Side and by that I really mean having on specifically some of these researchers who are looking into consciousness and psi research

1:04:03 People who compile stories of out-of-body experiences in hospitals. People who compile stories of kids who remember past lives If we want to get out of the conspiracy trenches a little bit from time to time more often than we have lately I think that these are some of the other things we talk about and i just don't go to those areas for guest material as often As I'm starting to think that I should Just like sometimes we talk about secret sciences and Tesla tech and Thomas Townsend Brown's flying machines. But I don't go to those conferences or go over those speaker lineups for guests either, but that would probably be another unique and exciting area to get into more And really of all the pools, I tend to pull from podcasting the least but of course Alex is an exception and he was well overdue

1:04:56 And if you haven't heard Skeptico, you can definitely rely on it to be high quality. He also has no ads and always gets right into the topic with a great all-encompassing overview introduction and he's very unique in that this is a straight passion project in every sense of the word. Yeah THC is a passion project for me but its also a job I have to manage as both but for Alex it just all for love of the game And that adds an element to what makes the show so good, and why he does push the more stubborn guests more than other hosts would. Because that exploration is the point! If you can't get out of the paradigm on Skeptico, what are you even doing there? He doesn't really care about being another softball interview in your lineup of media rounds. He doesn't have to do this

1:05:47 So check it out. I mean, he's a good natured guy we talked about maybe working on some other projects together that would be fun and we're both in the same area so i hope we can...I hope we do! Also if you heard The Plus Show It's something that I'm realizing happens with podcasters but we end up talking about THC way too much In my opinion And I can't help it because its the common ground That we have between host guest an audience Obviously, I always want to focus on the guests but it's hard sometimes to get too deep into specific episodes of their shows when you the listening audience don't really have that context. And sometimes it starts to sound like oh your interview with X was just so great! Oh thanks well yeah that was a good one! Oh yes and Y was killer too! Oh well you're just too kind

1:06:40 and that sort of back-and-forth that can happen. It's like two people talking about a movie that you just haven't seen, so I try to avoid that but then we end up talking about THC and then i just feel weird as awkward as I sound taking compliments and over explaining my choices at least I know we're not talking over your head also when it came to the plus show Alex had given me some topic suggestions and there were a lot of fun things in there and a lot of them did come out on The Plus Show We talked The Flat Earth in THC, this Jason Hogg kid. Alex's experiences in the business circles of Silicon Valley Wolfgang Halbig on THC, the various ways to think about hierarchical consciousness The proverbial tap on the shoulder that we have to consider with all alternative media

1:07:31 And also something we focused on for a while which was the crossover between conspiracy and comedy. Neither of us are gonna be experts there but i think it's definitely fodder for good conversation, and I definitely had a lot of little things to say about various people in situations But it was almost like we had Alex in the hosting chair for a bit there. But I guess that happens when you're talking to an interviewer, they can flip ya! They can flip ya for real if you're not on your guard. But this was a great time and i just wanted to introduce you to Alex's work if you weren't familiar because I hope he's someone who comes back here and checks in from time to time and tells us about the latest going on his world

1:08:12 but do go through the Skeptico archives. I mean, he's got Jacques Vallée in there... He's got Gordon White and Chris Knowles in there Michael Tesarion recently and I really liked that one And I thought he squeezed a lot of juice out of Stanton Friedman too Oh! And he also had Jim Mars on and asked him point-blank are you involved in Scientology? I can't believe I forgot to bring that up when he was here But Yeah, that was awesome. And so clearly we walk on parallel tracks and that was just a beautiful thing you should check that one out for sure Just like also I talked about in the plus show when Ryan and Sam on tinfoil hat they asked Eddie Bravo point-blank about Joe Rogan getting the tap on the shoulder and That's the elephant in the room because the show is too huge not to have been brought into the fold even just subtly

1:09:08 But that was something to watch too. And I think those guys will have to be the next podcasters we do an episode with because they've just been great podcasting friends and they also have really covered some impressive ground, made real cool contributions at this point. And i hope that's what more podcasters strive for is like real impact I think we've had some great moments too contributing to the collective record of interesting things. Alex again was very kind in pointing out some of those things that he thinks qualify, but i really want to keep that in my mind more often as Alex said guest selection is key and the questions of does this interview move the needle? Is this something new? Does this occupy an untapped space in the archive or is it more the same these are things we got to consider!

1:10:00 Of course nothing is going to be new all the time, but the more we can push that way the better no doubt. I think today's show did fill a void in the archive with real synthesis of that data on the fringe and there is no better guy than Alex for this job! Really hope you liked it also if your not a plus member then didn't hear the latest THC before this at all. Laurie Handerhan The pedophile epidemic supply pipelines and child abusers in power It is a very dark one to say the least but she does go pretty deep and it's a plus only show. Rarely do we have that, but once in awhile we do. Sign up already at hiresidechatsplus.com slash subscribe or you can go to Patreon! Also just a reminder we do have that discord server going run by ArchangelX

1:10:52 And it looks like there is going to be a live chat about THC every other night. Can you believe that? There was a poll and people apparently want to talk THC every other night, so I think each will have a focused topic if i'm not mistaken and I'm pretty excited about it! The first one is Saturday March 17th at 7 p.m pacific I think...I'm gonna miss that one but I'll surely jump in soon Look in the show notes for the Discord server link. And that's about it guys, the next THC is actually gonna be a whopper as well if you ask me I'm really happy with how that turned out Can't wait to unleash that beast on ya But that's it for today Your move consciousness quarantiners Scientific school syllabus writers and useful idiots of The Big Machine Your fucking move Oh no You see

1:11:55 The world is in randomness attached to puppet strings Control over everything The 9-to-5 has tried to steal ya Now don't that job seem silly? Hello, can you hear me Or should I play back recordings from some spying agency Wish we were younger I'll be thankful when it's all exposed The vast conspiracy There is such a difference between us and the damn drug Hollow from the highest side They're calling out a thousand cries

1:13:00 They'll tell you the story of everything that's been done. And they'll call out deception from the web that's been spawned. Hollow from the higher side, the earth is hollow inside. They'll tell you about something that no one else will Have you heard, have you heard about the real since long? Oh No! Their cartoon It's so typical of me to talk about this stuff I'm sorry That's good and well

1:14:02 Did you ever hear the argument that nothing really happens? It's no secret That the best is plumb. It's doubling your time. Follow from the higher side They're calling out a thousand cries Now tell me something the elite have done And they'll call out deception from the web that's been spawned Hello from the high, challenging your paradise

1:14:54 And I'll tell you something That the battle's begun But we can't fight it with violence The mind's where it's won As the world... As the world... As the world... Follow from a higher side They're calling out a thousand cries They'll tell you

1:15:47 Challenging And I'll tell you someday that the battle's begun But we can't fight it with violence The mind's where it's won, that's the point