Topic: Phyllis Seckler

Dr. Shoemaker defines the organizational differences between the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO) and the AA. The OTO is described as a social, Masonic-style fraternal order, while the AA is a rigorous, non-social teacher-to-student relationship focused on individual spiritual progress. He also details the role of the International College of Thelema and the Temple of the Silver Star in providing structured initiatory training based on the Golden Dawn system.

The conversation turns to the human personality of Aleister Crowley, with Duquette sharing insights gained from people who knew him, such as Israel Regardie and Phyllis Seckler. They discuss Crowley's influence on pop culture, including the "V for Victory" sign and the "Lamb" entity's resemblance to modern grey aliens. Duquette admits he finds Crowley's fiction difficult to read because he feels too close to the author's personal "warts" and affectations.