THC 108: Lon Milo DuQuette | Understanding Magik, Tarot, & The Universe

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Hello again, Ironside Chatters. Drinking little drinks, smoking a little smoke from the magical land of San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and today we're going to be talking about magic people esoteric arts hermeticism occult sciences and all the wonderful things in Pandora's box We're bypassing much of the speculation getting deep into the education today with the current deputy Grand Master General

00:54 Ordo Tempfli Orionis or the OTO, the secret society of occult magicians that was made popular by Aleister Crowley and on top of his prestigious position today's guest Lone Milo Dequette is also the man on the planet with the longest running membership into the OTO. He's a wealth of occult knowledge and teacher of magical traditions and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed myself so i got my good buddy occasional co-host Kyle Prundiville to help me wade the wondrous waters of occultism and esoterica. Kyle my man what's happening? Oh Greg, I couldn't be more excited for this episode. episode 99, he did the tarot reading for us. I name dropped Lon Milo Duquette because i was reading his book Understanding the Aleister Crowley Thoth Deck and it's so rich and in-depth and just from hearing that synchronistically his people contacted the show and wanted to be on and so I'm psyched to be able to part of this one as well

01:54 Yeah man, I was pretty shocked. I was pretty surprised when i got that message and then when I dove into just how high level Lone Milo Diquette is in Esoterica... Was taking a back. I was a bit shocked. I almost keeled over I am psyched to have the opportunity and I Was thankful for Alex too that episode really sparked an interest for me Alex could not be here today because he had a prior engagement But we did try to make this a foursome, but he did set this thing in motion now We're talking to the Papa bear of magic himself you know that's crazy man

02:31 Yeah, it's really cool. I love how reality unfolds like that. And Lon is great at just breaking down things that seem a little abstract, things like the Kabbalah...I've heard several of his presentations on those ancient ideas and ancient texts and sacred geometry And he just, he breaks it down in a great way. He articulated a point that resonated with me. He said that in terms of hermetics, it always feels like you're jumping into the middle of things. Like there's no definite beginning point and you feel like with every explanation there is an element that your missing

03:16 is assumed in the explanation. And that's totally how I feel, you know? One thing will be explained and it'll reference something else as if i knew about it and I don't so then you got to find out what that's about overwhelming body of work to really dive into, especially with no guidance. It's weeded out of our schools. Imagine if the sciences were weeded out of schools and then someone on the DL was trying to teach you all of science? You know years and years of science It's it would be a tall order as well. You know, yeah That's a great analogy because occultism is a science It's just the science that people are not taught and it is self-led And that is the whole thing about when you get into esotericism about the Western way and this is western Occultism as opposed to like Eastern mysticism Eastern kind of like Buddhism and Zen and things we talked about fairly often on the air though

04:11 The Western one is much more tricky. It hides from you, it's hard to understand like you said there's no starting point A quote from Hermes Trismegistus is once you step onto the path everywhere you look looks like part of the path And so once you start getting deep into this symbolism study, you realize that the study never ends. You can learn an infinite amount of all these different systems of symbolisms what the colors mean what the numbers mean with the divinities and gods and all their whole... What their whole crew is all about So yeah it's a study that just keeps on going in the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper

04:50 Yeah, man. This is gonna be fun! So I know i'm psyched...I want to get a better understanding of this stuff and this perspective and tarot and conjured beings.. I'm pumped and it looks like Lon's ready so I'm gonna coax you listeners into donating to the show for your chance to take back a couple hundred bucks in the THC money bomb Here are the deets and I'll see you on the other side with Kyle and Lon Milo DeKette Hey people, I gotta take a second to tell you about something we do around here called the THC Money Bomb. What i do is every 5 episodes, I total up the donations that I've gotten in that period of time and half keeps me and the show going, I take the other half and gift it back to random listeners. So far were hitting 500 each round

06:34 the pre-approved reality for a more magical worldview of wonder and opt to see themselves as taking an active role in the creation of one's reality, as opposed to a helpless little miserable me tossed around and spit out by an unforgiving universe. Folks it feels like we're dealing with a matter of perspective but after After 20 plus years of indoctrination, I sometimes wonder if all the damage can even be undone. If there ever was an opportunity to try people this would be the day to seize it! Today's guest is Lon Milo DeKette a flower child of the 60s who has navigated the weird waters of occult magic and human consciousness for decades through channels of several secret societies, the hermetic texts, and of course

07:12 the world of Alistair Crowley. Throughout this journey, Lon has written over a dozen books that aim to demystify some of the dense material for the masses and has come to be the U.S. Deputy Grand Master General of the OTO, a secret society of magic practitioners made famous by Alistair Crowley. It's going to get weird people and I couldn't be more psyched! Lon welcome to the show. Well it doesn't have to get weird... We like it weird here, we really do Oh well okay Well, thank you for having me on. It is a real pleasure man and thanks so much for taking the time! You're so great at breaking down these topics that I've been curious about for quite awhile but they still seem so foreign and so vast that it's a bit overwhelming at times, so this is really exciting. And I guess a good place to dive in would be to have you give us a bit of an introduction to the modern magical mindset or the esoteric philosophy as opposed to the way many of us have been conditioned to view reality?

08:08 Well, I don't think you can say that there's a magical unified field theory that all magicians agree upon. The bottom line is that the nature of reality, the nature of the universe and the nature is a monad of consciousness or terminal in the giant uh... in the giant consciousness network and that um... our consciousness transcends both space and time and so when you start uh... tinkering with aspects of consciousness in an artful way which magicians do, magicians are artists

09:07 And artists or magicians for that matter. When you start tinkering with consciousness in that way, hopefully the biggest magic you can do is to expand your own consciousness include greater and greater portions of that great consciousness until you gain what they have called in the East for a million years, enlightenment. Well, that's what a magician is supposed to be up to. Everything else is just farting around! That's funny... I mean it is- It's funny that you bring that up because- Oh can I say that? Yeah! Did I...? Are you gonna have to bleep fart out? No no

10:00 Okay, we can say anything you can say any words. This is a totally uncensored show But it is just funny It's funny to hear someone at your level equate it to that because as I've been looking into this magic stuff there does seem to be a coalescing of Eastern philosophies of Zen philosophies like at the end they all seem to be trying to get it the same kind of thing Would you say that's accurate or am I way off base? Oh sure yeah and Well when I started out, I of course I started out in the 60s and I was I was just really happy to be an aspiring musician and songwriter. And, I came in contact with psychedelics – I have to confess that LSD was my introduction into the world of higher consciousness.

10:58 Not that I'm advising everybody to take that route, but for me I needed shock therapy to snap out of my very limited the consciousness worldview. I thought that Eastern mysticism was going to be the way to go for me because thatís what was going on culturally around me with, you know, The Beatles and Maharishi. the marvelous works of Alan Watts and The Eastern Way, and I thought that was going to be a first-class yogi. And I gave it a good try for a long time but it finally sort of dawned on me that I was sort of hardwired a bit differently than that.

11:59 It obliges you to systematically quiet yourself and go inside, and systematically strip away all the things that you are not. Eventually once you have stripped away all the things that you are not, then youíre left with what you are. And what you are is, in essence just exactly the same thing as the Supreme Consciousness itself. That's a great thing! I could wrap my intellectual mind around that concept but it seemed like I was hardwired differently. It was like I was hardwired instead of to go in and I sort of needed to do that same thing only outward

12:45 outside of myself. I was much more comfortable working with all these inner things, outside of myself with metaphors and that sort of seems like it's the Western way and so instead of Zen, I was sort of looking for a Western Zen. I was looking for a Western Dao De Jing subtlety, and boy I wasn't really finding it. And I finally ran into the Kabbalah of esoteric Judaism which sort of resonated with me through the Kabbalah then i got into the Hermeticism and Western Esoteric Sciences

13:30 doing this in my old age. the Zen philosophy, they talk about one's life path. They talk about purpose and a phrase I hear tossed around a lot within the magicians worldview is do what thou wilt which i now know is the primary law of the OTO and I've heard you say that this law is not to be interpreted as a license to indulge every passing whim but rather has a mandate to discover one's true will and accomplish it and that sounds super fascinating and interesting to me The idea of a life path is something

14:10 I've always liked because it sounds cool, but could you give us any insight into how to reveal one's true purpose? I'm sure some of us wonder if we have one at all. Well the... You know, I-I am trying to live from microsecond to microsecond just doing the only thing that is there for me to do Everybody everybody is different and everybody's universe is different That's what so hard too I'm not asking anybody to do what I do or see things the way that I see things because we're all looking at the same thing from a different angle.

14:54 Like the people are trying to describe an elephant just by feeling different parts. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But where consciousness is concerned everybody has their own universe literally has their own universe and so I can only sort of give voice to what how I'm interpreting my own universe And it goes something like this I wouldn't even be here. entity, I wouldn't even be conscious of the fact that I seemingly am separate from you and everybody else. I wouldn't even be conscious of the fact that seemingly separated from me in the bookcase and my cat and the government and all of that. I wouldn't even be conscious of that unless I had some function

16:01 that was necessary to execute in this grand scheme. And people over the centuries and the millennia have posited that there's this will of God, that we're in God's will, and it's not really it's not really that far off the mark. But what I'm saying is, that...I am still here! I am still talking and squawking and being a pain in my wife neck because there is stil something necessary for me to do in the grand scheme of things that only I can do

16:56 And when it's done, I won't need to do it anymore. OK? I wouldn't be here unless there was a job for me to do." And I need to set about doing it. It's what a star does, it's what a planet does. A planet needs to be where it needs to be in order to fulfill its function in the cosmos. When this function is over, it goes. So I wouldn't even be here unless there was something that I needed to do and that only i can do it. That is your will! If you're a planet, that's your orbit if you're a star that's your path in the galaxy

17:42 It sounds like to me what you're describing is the great work, is another term I've heard coined for this. And the great work is to be found in each of your individual acts and so your day-to-day like... You're here today with us in this interview because it's all part of the greater work that's going on Do you see it that way? Is it all building towards something or every part? No! I couldn't have said it better myself or shorter yes No, that's how I feel. Okay, if I make this basket then Jenny likes me. Then some type of impromptu Magic 8-Ball and I'd shoot a basket and I'd make it and ask Jenny to the dance And she tell me to go fuck off and i'd be left thinking that's the last time I asked The Universe for any guidance You know what I mean? Like was my method wrong or is there some way to increase our accuracy when trying to read signs

18:49 Well, the minute you start asking the universe for a sign you've already separated yourself from the universe. You're short-circuiting the whole thing from the very beginning. Do you think there's a quid pro quo about all of this? Nah, you just do it! When I said that I'm trying to work from microsecond to microsecond, I really mean that. I've never made a goal in my life. This is my universe, so please don't say this is...I'm recommending this philosophy but I've never had a goal. I don't set out to do anything.

19:44 When people say, well set goals in your life and then shoot for those goals. And I say screw that! Okay? Screw it! Uh...I can't do that. I don't set a goal. I don't even set a goal for what-for what i'm going to do uh today and it's not that i'm just reacting from if you are present From second to second, there's only one thing for you to do at any given moment. And the more present you are, the more you go along with the program. The second you start to think

20:37 In any way, more than that one thing thatís in front of your nose to do youíre already walking on quicksand because thereís always a factor infinite and unknown. There is no future! There is no past! You are in an eternal now and anything that you do to change yourself in that now-ness Changes not only the future it changes your past That's how consciousness works. It's really big stuff and Did you ever see the movie? Groundhog Day Yes, absolutely It is one of my favorite movies of all time. It's just a fun movie Number one but

21:40 Besides that, they try or they illustrate something that I actually... my worldview of consciousness actually it's in harmony with it. There is this idea where a guy wakes up every morning to the same day And he goes through the thing, it happens to be Groundhog Day. It's kind of really cute and The first few days that he does it, he gets up and makes exactly the same mistakes. He steps in a puddle, meets an irritating guy, etc., and finally catches on

22:38 that if he changes himself, he can more easily pass through his day. He knows that if he changes himself, he can avoid stepping in that puddle and after a while, he really discovers that well, he could go to a piano teacher and say, can I take a lesson? And he can go back day after day week after week to the same day. He's better every time!

23:17 Okay, so even though the piano teacher is seeing him for the first time he's going in with a year's worth of piano practice under his belt. And pretty soon he masters himself. Pretty soon he is master of his environment and passes through his life as an enlightened being, step by step literally he is becoming the supreme consciousness of his life.

23:55 And this is more in tune with my view of what, say, reincarnation is. Of the nature of time. As physicists will tell you there is no time as we know it! Okay? That just flat out doesn't exist. And so we're trying to wrap our meat brains around a great universe where this idea of space and time that seems to dominate absolutely everything in our consciousness doesn't even exist.

24:35 So when so the I wrote a song Called I once was the hero of Megiddo and it's sort of a goofy little reincarnation song But the idea is that you keep on returning until you get it, right? Okay Just like the guy in just like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. Yeah That's a great example He keeps returning until he gets it right, but it's the same life. Changing yourself now changes your past, changes your future and the ultimate change in your consciousness changes everything

25:24 to such a degree that you see that you've been everybody and everything all along. That's what you're shooting for, that's the emptiness of Zen, that's the fullness of Kabbalah, that is illumination, that is enlightenment and that...and uh..the magician is somebody that uses absolutely everything in his or her outer world as a metaphor for this great adventure. It uses the stick as a wand, as a metaphor for the will and it uses the cup as a metaphor for those...for the understanding and then the rituals themselves

26:19 are just like little songs, little vignettes that are played to set the mood for consciousness change. Does that make any sense at all? Yeah absolutely! That's a pretty great analogy I love the Groundhogs Day analogy and i think something that might hold people back from fully embracing the magical philosophy, at least in terms of how we see it in mainstream cultures. There seems to be a lot of fraud in the realm of rituals and spell casting and that type of activity but we also see

26:55 psychics advertising from a rundown beach shack or tarot readers on the boardwalk that look like they're barely keeping their life together. And I have to be honest, as curious as I am my rational brain takes over and looks at those situations and says well if I'm doing better than that so whatever secret understanding he's worked out it can't be that valuable! That's kind of where i'm left How can I rectify that? What's to rectify, you're just making an observation that is probably pretty damn accurate. Right but as I'm curious and I want the validity in my rational mind

27:39 To come together with my curiosity. I want to rectify those two things. The thing is, just because somebody... Well, I read tarot cards too! So I have something in common with somebody that reads tarot cards by the beach and spends their money on heroin. That's a fair point. But the thing is that they shouldn't reflect on me and I shouldn't reflect on them, it's like saying...I speak English and

28:31 John Wilkes Booth spoke English, too. Does that mean I hate Lincoln? That's a great answer! And the idea of magic, of metaphysics, of mystical thought is is no different than just the language that somebody is speaking and some of us at least try to speak the same language. Some of use use the language better than others, but there's a lot of other things you can do with it. You can write great poetry or you could

29:18 You know, get lost and off like a lawyer would use it. No, yeah that's a great answer and I mean on the flip side to be fair. I hear a lot of people break down corporate symbolism and the careful crafting of some of these powerful companies logos And it seems more like sigil making than they probably let on and you know I see guys like Jay-Z at a Lakers game with a big chain that says do what thou wilt? And I think well he's pretty damn successful Maybe there is something to this stuff so there are elements on both sides You're right It's just a language I know, yes. It's nice to see people that are thinking at least on certain subjects the same way you are being cool people and successful and everything else but there is also the book of the law says a king may choose his garment as he will but a beggar cannot hide his poverty

30:21 The idea that there actually may be a really grungy person down at the down at the beach reading tarot cards and looking really, really scruffy who just might actually be Lao Tzu in disguise. And if you're not ready to hear the voice of God out of somebody laying in the gutter, then you're not ready to hear the voice of God out of somebody in a pulpit or somebody who you instantly respect.

31:07 because of their outward appearance or character. If you can't find the light in the darkness, you're not going to be able to find a light anywhere and that is a fact. And so Crowley latched onto this immediately whether he did it consciously or unconsciously Because in order to see what a wonderful, saintly holy man Alistair Coley was you gotta go through a lot of darkness to find him.

31:44 Theyíll find it. You have to beat through all sorts of fears and your own hang-ups in order to get it, but when you get it itís worth the dig! out of the mouth of anybody that you may or may not agree with. These are insights that old farts come to just by becoming old farts. Okay, it's not a thing that the Kabbalists all come to the conclusion. All of the old guys in barber shops come to the same conclusion. Well I like how you suggest that you never know where the truth is going to come from and what source is going to come from and in that sense its always coming

32:46 The best means that you get the truth from is just a metaphor anyways. It's an allusion to the truth, you can't actually express the truth so for you to hear the truth it has to come through a vessel of some bum reading tarot in the street he might be the most enlightened thing you hear all day and might come from a stranger And so it's, they say these occult things like for those who have ears to hear. Well really it is instead of what we talked about earlier how you ask the universe hey give me proof and the universe doesn't give you proof instantly because its not a quid pro quo like that but instead the way it works

33:24 If you have the ears to hear, if you're receptive that the message may come from any Joe Schmoe. It may come from an unexpected place and in Zen they talk about it always comes from the unexpected place It really does, and when you ask the universe to tell you the truth – I'm sorry, but the universe tells you the truth instantly. You're just not seeing it! If you're actually ready to ask that question, then you've got the answer. And that's the whole idea about why divination works or doesn't work.

34:05 It's easier to see the answer in something perfect or something approaching perfection. If the answer would come to you as a clear mirror image, it's easier to look into a mirror that isn't all screwed up and obscured. It is easier to see your own reflection in still water than it is in wavy water.

34:43 But still, your reflection is in wavy water. It's just harder for you to put the image together in your brain. Same thing with perfection. I did a class on divination a few years ago and I said it's easier to see your answer in something that is approaching perfection. So beauty is perfection, that's why you can go for a walk in the woods or see a flower

35:23 deep inside of you goes, doing, and you get your answer. And mathematics is perfect in the Kabbalah, of course based on mathematics and tarot and numerology and stuff but I took it as far as saying, I think Mark Twain is perfect Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn are perfect novels. I love Mark Twain, he's the voice of God! You know? I just love Mark Twain so I went out in the backyard with Tom Sawyer and wrote down at random

36:12 sentences from Tom Sawyer. I just opened a page at random, put my finger down and then wrote about 88 little quotations from Tom Sawyer and then went I went back in the house and typed them all in on an Excel spreadsheet. And I made cards. Printed it out on card stock and made 88 cards. I laid them out in a grid, 36 of them out on the inner grid six by six and I used two dice. And I said, I'm going to make an Oracle out of Mark Twain. I'm gonna have a conversation with Mark Twain and I'm gonna roll the dice and one dice will be the column and one dice will be the column.

37:09 the row and I'll ask my question, and I'll read the card. If I don't understand that first card then I'll set it aside and take a card off of my little stack of the ones that are left over and replace it." And they said, well what did you mean by that? And I'd enter into conversation with Mark Twain and thought oh this is going to be cool thing! So I finished this project up about 10 minutes before people were going to arrive for class. And I said, this will be good! I worked all day on it and hope it works you know? And so just before anybody comes, I try it out for the first time and I said okay Mark Twain is this a real oracle

38:05 And I threw the dice, expecting to have to draw three or four cards to get into a conversation with him. I drew one card and it gave me my answer! I said is this a real Oracle Mark Twain? It said well that sounds like a good way but that ain't the way Bob Tanner does. Yeah, it's funny. I mean, I love that kind of stuff! I've heard you also talk about doing TVmancy where you put the tv on mute and just scroll through channels and ask a question and pop it on to see what the answer is... And I love that kinda thinking in that kinda activity but I guess I have a hard time extracting some

38:50 Real knowledge from that. Is there a way we can better receive the messages or better know exactly what we're looking for? Yes What would that be stay in the moment Trust yourself, yeah, it's tough to do trust yourself Okay Can you imagine how much you evolve when you trust yourself? Can you imagine how much your mind expands, can you see how much more you wake up when you trust yourself.

39:40 In the earliest Hindu or the earliest Buddhist texts and written in Pali they talk about trust or faith kind of being interchangeable as one of the fundamental That is like with one of the fundamental things you must achieve is having this faith or trust in the universe that it's whatever is going to happen is What has to happen? Right, but it's mostly to throw it back in your own lap. The idea of trusting yourself

40:22 It's the first and last step of taking responsibility for your own will. Everybody makes mistakes, we make mistakes all the time as a matter fact as long as were bouncing around in this dimension every move that we make is at the same instant simultaneously a mistake the correct thing to do. Simultaneously, there's nothing that you're doing that isn't a mistake and the right thing at the same time. It's interesting stuff! That's the nature of duality

41:11 And you've got to get to a place where you transcend the nature of duality and start by trusting yourself. There's this goofy, funny little movie called something like The Best Marigold Hotel or something like that. It's a show about old English retirees going to India to retire. But there's a saying that the kid in the movie keeps saying, he says all will be well in the end. If things aren't well that means it is not yet the end. That's funny! It's really kind of cute but as long as we're tied

42:03 to the concept of a duality, that there's a difference between what you're beholding and yourself. As long as that separation exists, you're locked. You're in prison! You're literally in prison. And it holds true not only from a psychological point of view – it's true from a quantum physics point of view

42:41 And this idea, you really run across it with magic. Because people... I mean, I've been on George Nury, I go on the George Nury show. Coast to coast? Quite a lot! Yeah and he's really really a nice guy smart as a whip and he's Brilliant, Matt. But he has to ask me questions kind of from the point of view of a lot of his listeners and a lot of his listeners are still heavy into the idea that there's an anthropomorphic kind of God and there is an anthropomorphic kind of devil

43:31 And that what I'm into is the dark side and I'm a Satanist, and a black magician. What's the difference between black magic and white magic? So I run into this a lot. The thing is that If the magician's archetype is this guy named Solomon, King Solomon. Okay, magicians that's our mythological archetype. Solomon even though everybody takes credit for Solomon the Jews take credit for him the Muslims take credit for him and Christians like King Solomon but the thing is king Solomon did something that none of them do he entered into the presence of God

44:32 in order to figure out how to do what his will was, and his will was to build that temple. This mythological temple. But instead of doing little tiny acts of magic Before he went to the little magical building contractors or the little magical artisans and stuff, He first entered into the presence of God. He raised his consciousness to the supreme consciousness and then the supreme consciousness said okay here's how to execute that! And the supreme consciousness then gave him the keys

45:15 control, whip up control direct even the four evil forces of the universe and put them to work for constructive ends. In other words, God as we think of God told him how to get demons to help him build the house of God. Now there's not a disconnect there okay? But what it is telling us is that the Divine Presence that he entered in was much bigger than what most of us think about as the God who is good. If your god is so small that it can have an opposite, if your god is so small that there's room in the rest of the universe for an evil devil to oppose it then your god is not big enough

46:22 Yeah, that's brilliant man. That rings true! That resonates. And so the first thing a magician needs to do is not learn to control the demons or spirits or anything else... The first thing a magician needs to do is become a Solomon a Solomon who has swallowed up the small g good and the small e evil into one big transcendent good that there is no opposite of. Does that make any sense? Absolutely, absolutely! That's well said and it kind of flies in the face of my next line of questioning for you which was I wanted to kind of get into some of the magic

47:13 Things in the magical toolbox, the rituals themselves. You know fortune-telling divination sigil making necromancy all that kind of stuff It's interesting and I was curious if there was a certain thread magic that you would point someone to who was looking to get, who is curious about this kind of stuff and was looking to dabble in it. Something that would be most effective but I guess everybody's individual experience is going to be far different. Yeah Let's go back to the thing about trust yourself What I would suggest is investigate what your initially attracted too

47:57 what sort of... Because it's an art form, and because magic is an art, and because magicians are artists. Take responsibility for your own art, and go toward what attracts you! And don't worry if you're being attracted to it for unworthy motives I'm sorry, but you're not awake enough even know what your motives are so just go with it Yeah. Okay, so if you're attracted to signal magic or attracted to chaos magic, if you're attracted to Santeria, if you can picture yourself as this-or that kind of sorcerer or wizard go ahead! Investigate it

48:53 Because the important thing is that you recognize that you're seeking something. And it doesn't even have to be magic, because everything is magic If you like filmmaking, if you like animation, if you like writing, if you like poetry. If you like painting or sculpture or if you like gaming... Go ahead, that's where your soul is leading you at the moment. And actually it knows much more accurately what it really needs.

49:50 So initially, and Crowley makes it a formal thing when you join the AA. You get an AA superior in just the first year! You don't do anything except what the hell you want to do? What are you attracted to? Well then dig into it, but you have to start somewhere. The important thing is starting. And where you start from is where you're at. That's the thing about following your own list of doing your own creative thing is the place you got to start from is where You're already at and I feel like a lot of people are so pent up. They don't have time to do creative activities They don't think I'll be good at it and the simple belief I don't think I'll be good at it or I don't think it'll be a productive use my time prevents people From starting the very first step in what would be like an authentic natural? creative

50:50 That's one of the great and very positive advantages Joining an organization, an initiatory society. The mistake with joining an initiatory society is thinking the initiatory society is going to do anything for you! The importance of joining an initiatory society is that you're forcing yourself to take steps. You're forcing yourself to start

51:35 and take progressive steps. It's not that the organization is going to give anything to you or do anything to you, fat chance! But they're valuable for what they make you do to yourself And people that become disappointed in groups or initiatory societies is because they've become disappointed with themselves.

52:13 on taking the next step. They have a group of people to blame for their... And people are assholes, I'm sorry! Even great people that are on the same trip and are trying to do the best for other people and everything else? I'm sorry, people are jerks and assholes, and people are always going to let you down The thing is love them and take responsibility for your own next step because that's all those people are doing too.

52:50 So don't project omniscience or adept ship on other people. They might be more knowledgeable than you, they might be more advanced on certain levels and everything else but they're still people and people are still jerks and assholes. Well said man, and you mentioned Crowley a bit ago. And I know that you've looked into his work immensely probably more than anyone You've written about him a lot How do you feel what? Do you think he would feel about the current state of magic in the world I really don't know. He'd get a kick out of certain things, okay? Because he was human and... ...I think there's this certain amount of disappointment in his life that he didn't receive greater acknowledgement for his brilliance while he was alive

53:51 And I think he'd be very encouraged about how his expression for spiritual evolution is now gaining comparable attention as say the work of Gurdjieff or the work of Blavatsky. So on a personal level of gratification. I think he would be very, very pleased. There's a conference going on in Jerusalem or has just finished, a Theosophy co-sponsored event and they're discussing Crowley

54:42 Gergiev and Blavatsky in the same International Symposium. He would just love that! Yeah, who wouldn't well his reach. I mean his political and every other influence is so unbelievable I mean, I don't if people aren't Devout researchers they may not know that Winston Churchill's V during World War two what came from Crowley or that? His drawing of lamb the entity that he channeled Is the quintessential drawing of a small gray alien and this show is all about UFOs aliens. Well that was so influenced, unbelievably influenced by Crowley And I think there is more of recognition now than when he was alive but

55:34 I just think it's so cool how he has all these secret connections and influences. Jack Parsons was a follower of him as well? Yeah, yeah! And his mystique is only going to grow as the years go on. He died before I was born, so I didn't even have the opportunity to meet him. He studied with Crowley as much as he could anyway in England during the Second World War. Phyllis Seckler, who corresponded with Crowley and Helen Smith, was the wife of both Jack Parsons and Wilford Smith, and of course, I knew Regardi.

56:40 And so talking with these people, I get to see a Crowley that was very human and goofy and wrote goofy letters. Crowley as a human with warts and brilliance and everything. it makes it hard for me to read Crowley novel. Because I feel, I know Crowley so much that I'm almost self-conscious when I read his novel. Have you ever read a novel that a friend of yours has written? Yeah! Okay if a friend says, I've written the novel and want you to read it and you read it and your embarrassed

57:33 And you don't want to tell him, this stinks. It might not stink but you know the person so well that you can tell when they're committing gross affectations or when they're being presumptuous or use a word that would never be used in real life and That's sort of how I feel about Crowley's fiction.

58:13 I had never heard of this term, the Aeon of Horus or that we were in a new Aeon of human consciousness and you know what you had deciphered from Crowley's writing. I just found that so intriguing! I thought it was really interesting i think it really dovetails with like the internet and this whole era of self-expression where the individual is empowered to kind of say whatever they want go whatever path they want And I just wondered if you have anything to say about the Aeon of Horus or what this proclamation of this new era was going to be. Well, number one if we're going to start synchronizing objective reality and the movement through time as years roll by here The Aeon of Horus

59:11 As a matter of fact, all changes of eons or ages, what changes the age are advances in human consciousness. Two ages ago, which he conveniently just called the age of Isis. The goddess Isis. We didn't know where babies came from. We didn't have a nine month attention span okay? We didn't know where babies came from. We saw everything in terms of just getting nourishment we just thought all day long

59:58 about filling our bellies and that's more or less it. And God was a woman, because babies just popped out of a woman just miraculously and she gave birth to a baby girl Just took a baby and just plugged it right into her breast, just like the earth feeds us. That was where our consciousness was. Our goddess was a woman and the earth. Earth-woman, Earth-inus. And she of course is connected to the moon because of her menstruation cycles

1:00:35 And she swells up for nine of those cycles and then pop out of blood and water comes another little baby, and she just plugs it right in her tit. That's miraculous! Okay that is big magic. Then we figure out that the earth and the sun are a partnership. we become conscious that in order for the earth to bring forth all of these plants and shit like this, that the sun's got to shine for longer periods of a day. It made us conscious of the sun going up and down and it made us conscious of the lengthening of days as we moved into spring and summer and the shortening of days as we move out.

1:01:22 So that was the beginning of the age of Osiris. It was a little advance in human consciousness, we figured out where babies came from about the same time that we figured out that we need sunlight for plants to grow. Does that make sense? And so the whole magical formula of humanity had changed, and that set up a new crisis for a few thousand years because we were afraid the sun was dying every day. Okay, we knew the sun died and we were pretty confident it was going to come up but there was no guarantee. So we have a church being formed that said look just pay us some money every day and we'll make sure the sun comes out in the morning. That's more or less what they're saying. But now? Now we know the sun stays on all of the time!

1:02:19 And when it finally sunk into humanity, with the sun shining all the time that expanded human consciousness and that changed the age. Does that make sense? It does! And so the entire magical formula is the son of Osiris, Horus takes over Okay, and now we've got a new magical formula that's based on the fact that the sun stays on all the time. Sun doesn't die every day. We don't die. The sun stays on all of the time. We're on all the time. There is no such thing as overcoming death. There is no death there's only life

1:03:02 We stay on all the time. If we're on right now, I'm sorry you've always been on and you're always going to be on that's just the nature of consciousness and that's the big aha! And one of the greatest things I see coming out of Crowley's Age of Horus in a geopolitical way that we can actually look at right now is the fact that he said there is going to be such an influx of solar energy upon the Earth, it will change absolutely everything on the planet. Now, can you imagine if we got ourselves completely free of fossil fuel? If we actually turned our attention to the accessing of solar radiation on the planet. How that could absolutely change everything and Crowley predicted that in about 1936

1:03:55 It's amazing. Absolutely and Horace too I mean talk about deities, I feel like this last age was ruled by Jesus And he's more of like a passive deity You could say his philosophy is a little bit more passive but Horace is quite a different Sun God entirely and Horus the Avenger Is there to set things straight? You know what I mean? Like he goes to the darkness and makes it light And I know in the Crowley's tarot deck, like The Hanged Man. We actually just had a reading on air where The Hanged Man was pulled to describe this show but as you say about that card that's bringing light into the darkness of this age we've been in kind of an intellectual darkness especially about the geopolitical truth. We get nothing but nonsense from what we hear on TV so when need shows like the Hiresight Chats to explore the conspiracies were bringing light and the darkness isn't is it not all the same

1:04:48 archetype Well, yeah. It's a great card to pull for a show whose purpose is to do that. The old point of view of the Hague Man Crowley has so radically changed with the AIDS change as it makes the Hague man card almost like an appendix in the human body. It must be there for a reason, but it's bordering on obsolete. Instead of the idea of self-sacrifice, there was a time when the idea of self-sacrificing was a big leap in ethical consciousness.

1:05:39 But self-sacrifice for the sake of self-sacrifice is stupid, okay? And it's not helping anybody. There's a level of self-sacrifice that is absolutely still, you know wonderful holy thing. But self sacrifice for oh well it's a virtue for me to self sacrifice and yeah I'm sorry it's like committing slow suicide the idea of its more like philanthropy now

1:06:19 It's more like the wisdom and the impulse, and the joyous responsibility for those who are capable of being philanthropic to do so. Because it enriches their universe, enriches them, it enriches who they're being philanthropic towards. So you were blessed with that reading! Yeah, man I did it. I mean I kind of agree and I was interested in Tarot And we had this guy Alex Bolin of the Alex cast perform it and It happened to be using your deck and that's kind of how We ended up here today But it was the first reading for anything that I participated in and it seemed show just

1:07:10 overwhelmingly positive results for me and the trajectory of the show. It said that my biggest obstacle would be to get too comfortable with success, and now I'm running around talking about the validity of tarot because i have a vested interest in this particular reading! So I mean... you know, I've heard you say that it taro isn't really fortune-telling, it's more like fortune creation, and uh, I'm interested in that can you elaborate on that at all? Oh there ya go okay yeah It's a snapshot of creation and progress. If there is any fortune-telling involved, it's how the individuals are interpreting that.

1:07:54 The way I read cards was different than others because I donít claim to be psychic at all. More or less for the time Iím being paid for, I want to just roll up my sleeves and get as deep into the clientís issues I have to be able to do that.

1:08:38 So in a sense what we've done is take a little snapshot of the situation, in the same way that an astrologer would draw up a natal chart for an event or birth of something, creation of something. Someone consulting the Yi Ching would take a snapshot of the instant of the question by casting the sticks and generating the hexagram, and insight has to come through

1:09:20 often very, very flawed and human vehicle of the tarot reader but mostly from the client themselves. Well, I know. One tarot reader is my...I allow myself one tarot reader and she's just absolutely unbelievably amazing and she's a very good astrologer too. I'll embarrass her. It's Janet Barris in Chicago.

1:10:01 I don't think she says she's psychic either, but there is more of an element of that in her reading than mine. But because the tarot is perfect, because the Yi Qing is perfect. They're both mathematically perfect. They're both perfect things if a tarot deck that is in perfect order from 0 to 22 and then the four suits, fire water air and earth, Wands Cup Swords Discs. When they're placed in order just imagine that is the universe as perfectly understood

1:10:52 The universe right now is perfect. It's not out of whack, the reason things seem out of whack is because our limited powers of perception and the universe already operating perfectly I'm sorry and not only that but you and me are already enlightened I like that. Okay, we're already enlightened it's all done You know let's celebrate

1:11:32 Well, I like about the tarot that you said it's a complete and uh...I was just reading in this Carl Jung book called Man and His Symbols how he is saying that these divisions in symbolism they're not mere philosophical ideas. These are real! These are the real divisions these are just the best language we can use to describe the totality like the whole map You got to break it into sections, but you've got to understand what's being said. It's also kind of hard to explain it That's right But we can get really close okay? but it's like we have to constantly upgrade our operating system

1:12:15 And you hear in science fiction of great machines that repair and evolve themselves, but we do. Our brain more accurately our mind is in the process of constantly upgrading itself if we would allow it to constantly upgrade itself. And so in order for us to wrap our meat brain around things, we have to exercise it and constantly wrap it around more things to keep the body moving.

1:12:59 to give it a... to allow the, it to function, to grow, to evolve. And the idea that when we shuffle a tarot deck, when we shuffle this perfectly ordered universe, we're not changing the nature of the universe at all but we are seeing for a time being our limited defective, what our limited defective powers of perception are allowing us to see.

1:13:41 And if we have an idea of where things land in a perfectly ordered universe, if we see how we are misinterpreting it. How the cards are arranged and juxtaposed with one another and preceded and follow each other We can start to get a handle on what it is we need to do to get them back into order, in a way.

1:14:23 of viewing one of those lenses, those holographic lenses or plates. And when you drop them on the floor they shatter but every shard contains within itself the whole and every tarot reading is us trying to approximate perfection from the angle that we're allowed to see with the little shard that we've presented ourselves with. Does that make any sense? Yeah, that's poetic!

1:15:05 Well, that's as good as I get before noon. Yeah man hey well this has been great Lon! I really appreciate it we're getting kind of close to the end of it there but we're so used to a culture that externalizes everything and its really hard to keep these concepts in mind all the time and theres so much more re-education required to let magic back into our lives than an hour just scratches the surface but it has been a blast and hopefully we can do it again. And I also love when this happens, when I mention to people...I mentioned that you're a musician as well and a magician and you were able to provide us with the closing song which I really like and wanted to give you a minute to talk about but also let the people know about your website little bit about your books that kind of stuff

1:15:49 Okay, well the best website I've got is longduket.com but most of my material comes from my Facebook pages. I have a Facebook fan page and a Facebook friend page but I also have a Reverb Nation page for my music My books are probably easiest to obtain through either your local occult shop or from Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

1:16:39 I've got Tarot cards and stuff too, but I've also got three CDs that I have done in the over the last two years and music has become once again part of my magic. If the songs don't seem particularly magical overtly, please know that they're magical covertly and it's part of my work. That's just about it. I'm going to go back from Shanghai and I think I'll be in Europe

1:17:27 11 cities in 10 countries, in May and June. And I'll be speaking on magic and tarot in the daytime and at night. I've got club dates in all of the places so that's what I'm up to right now if I wanted to leave anybody with anything. The idea that If somebody is interested in magic or just plain interested in life, the biggest tool in your toolbox is something that you already can do. It's the power source of your toolbox and it sounds like a corny thing but itís love.

1:18:17 is an energy as real and as tangible as electricity or radioactivity, electromagnetism. It's a real force! Ultimately your ability to find out who you are and do what you're here to do is linked directly with your ability to love, give love and your ability to receive love with that same intensity. The love ray is an alternating current, and once you get into that flow, uh...you'd be surprised how many doors slam open to your progress in your evolution so I'll leave you with that bit of wisdom

1:19:10 Well said, man. It's been a great time I feel lucky to have spent some time with you and extracted a little knowledge into my simple stoner existence. I respect all your work everything you've done Is there anything you wanted to say about the closing track? Okay this song is called I'm scared and it's The I read so much and I'm saddened at how much gun violence there is in the world, and in our country. And I've come to the conclusion that there are so many guns not because people manufacture so many guns or that they're

1:19:54 They're legal, but the problem is that people are scared. People are armed because they are scared and the idea that the problem isn't so much with guns as fear. So I wrote a song called, ìI'm Scaredî Very cool. Yeah, I like the song The irony a paranoid man with a gun is more dangerous than most of the things people are afraid of anyway So yeah, it's great right But hey, it's been awesome man Thanks again Lon take care yourself out there Well thank you very much and thank you for letting me ramble on like this Of course take care thanks Lon Okay bye-bye

1:20:43 Alright, well that does it people. Donate to the Money Bomb, share the show with your friends, review us where you can We have to manifest this tarot reading The cards have spoken Success is imminent Take care of yourself guys Be careful with your conjuring Listen to the universe Feel the magic And I'll talk to ya next week Your move Merlin My life's in constant danger I'm threatened by each stranger. I'm scared they'll club and stab me, Scared kidnappers will nab me! I'm scared of home intrusion And cultural infusion. I'm scared of immigrants And teens in drooping

1:21:23 I'm scared of sudden sounds. I'm scared of mimes and clowns! I'm scared of boys in hoodies, Scared they will steal my goodies... I'm scared of car hijackers, Scared of computer hackers.. I'm scared of mysticism That devil communism I'm scared of social welfare and universal health care. I'm scared of foreign accents, I'm scared of paying taxes! I'm scared of other races and unfamiliar faces...I'm scared of intellectuals

1:22:10 I'm scared of bureaucrats, I'm scared of Democrats. I'm scared of Satanists, scared of psychiatrists. Scared of my medication, misfear college educations. I'm scared of revolution, The theory of evolution I'm scared Of knocks upon my door I'm scared Of homeless and the poor That guys will disrespect me That girls will just reject me And that, I look like a fool Just like I did in school

1:22:54 My mother's ghost still haunts me. Dad's disapproval taunts me I'm scared of darkened streets, I'm scared of halal meats! I'm scared of NSA UNNCIA I am scared of my own shadow, I'm scared of Rachel Maddow... I'm not an evil fellow, my spine is just painted yellow I'm scared each waking hour In dreams, I cringe and cower Scared that I have no power Wish I lived in a tower Scared of my powerlessness Scared of my cowardess-ness That's why...I carry....a gun