THC 69: Victor Thorn | The Boston Bombing, DMT, & The Holocaust

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats What's happening, Hireside Chatters? Drinking a little drink. Smoking a little smoke from sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood Today on the show we're going to explore some major world events and the ways the global elite shape their narrative to get what they want And our guest Victor Thorne is just the man to do that But first I gotta say today is a bit of treat because it such a rarity To have someone here in the THC studio with me We got Ron Patton of Paranoia Magazine sitting to my right Here to navigate these weird waters and this salty conspiracy

01:02 and I couldn't be more pleased. Ron, how you doing? I'm doing quite well thank you we met at ConspiracyCon our booths were right next to each other so we passed the time getting drunk in between sales of books and t-shirts it was a great time over those two days then of course you put together ParanoiaCon here few weeks ago in San Diego which was great had to be quite challenging were you happy with how it went man? It was a learning experience I think overall I was really pleased I know the presenters enjoyed it immensely as well as the audience. So even though the turnout was relatively small, again it was a good experience for me and

01:45 I already have a venue for next year and it'll be in August 2014 at the Cava Lounge in San Diego. Nice, yeah I mean I loved it! I thought there were a lot of great speakers. I actually thought what I saw of Lenin Honors presentation was very interesting talked about 9-11 media's trauma cycles and the male and female paradigm How that's been warped and twisted, and we're talking about doing a THC show next month. He should be an interesting guest. His presentation was pretty good! Yeah well I mean he is so well versed in so many different topics the guy is a family counselor and uh...I think he has a very unique insight and approach to

02:30 looking at the family not like in some religious zealous way, but just in terms of how you know the powers that be have sort of systematically broken the family apart in terms of roles of people and families. And yeah it was when I read his website oh about a year ago I just thought, okay yeah. But then he gets in you know it's like all these tentacles that get into other aspects of conspiracy and so actually he is going to have an article on the 9-11 fear based media mind control not this coming issue but in our winter issue Excellent

03:18 Also, you know Freeman talks about Disney's role in shaping that male-female paradigm and the family if you look at most Disney movies especially in the 90s before Pixar You won't see very many strong female mother roles or If there is one like Bambi she's killed right Aladdin Jasmine just has a dad. I know that's there's a reason for that it's because they say that the Female is what holds the family together. She's the nurturer and both the male and female children don't form correctly, there's just a warped way that they form their personalities without that motherly role so you can take out the mother and then it's just all aggression You know? You find the sons are just overly aggressive They have no nurturing tendencies at all

04:08 females don't get the nurturing instinct, they don't know how to channel it correctly. So they're all fucked up in the head so that's apparently what Disney is trying to do. Right I wonder if they've been doing that for a long time or if that something just of recent vintage because you know the reality is Walt Disney was a Freemason, I mean in of itself. Yeah You know who knows but and then he was also FBI informant and so you know as far as propaganda is concerned Disney has always been involved in that since the late 40's And he had a very close relationship with J Edgar Hoover Huh yeah Disney was an interesting guy

04:57 But uh, so this next year's Paranoia Con is gonna go on at the Kava Lounge. I actually went there not long ago on the recommendation to try kava It's an interesting brew it's um You know it's got some some properties some psychoactive properties but it's pretty mild I had never heard of it until super recently but You know, you go there they put it in a coconut and after a couple of them you feel kind of loose. They say it's like liquid weed in a way I mean, I've had the Caba Caba in a capsule and it just kind of mellows you out. Helps you sleep and stuff but i've never taken it in that form Oh man! Well its going to be a party there Yeah well... You know what's so neat? It accommodates 150 people Nice And uh.. There is a bar right there Then theres the dance floor where we're gonna set up seating then theres a stage Then theres like this other room

05:53 that's like sort of right above where the main floor is. And so I was thinking about setting up a vendor tables there and then also putting a big screen TV up, So people are kind of looking at books and stuff they can still see the presenters. So i've gone there a couple times over the past two weeks and uh... They said hey let's do this! And so it'll actually be in August I made a calculated risk of trying to do it this year the same time they had the Comic Con because i was hoping to piggyback on that crowd. I failed miserably. But, you know again it's learning experience Right and i think it would have gone... It was just a little too far from the crowd Had it been closer? Mm-hmm I think there definitely would've been some runoff because there are all kinds of people walking around There is all kinds of events going on down there but I'm sure that rent would have twice as much Oh yeah! Yeah I mean I tried..I asked few places and they go, ''Yeah do you want to pay $1000 a day no problem'' So

06:51 I opted for Cafe Sobacca which was still a really excellent intimate venue and you know, I still might use it for like maybe like a speaker or something like that for the day. But I think next year we have to change it up and hopefully, I'm going to get a bigger draw and I'm gonna have bigger names. And definitely the number one person on my list is Freeman who's a good friend of mine. Yeah man he's cool! So of course Adam is gonna come back too. Adam and Joe and Andy...I told them they need to form a paranoia band so they're gonna be working on that all year Nice That's awesome

07:32 Well, before we get Victor in here I did want to ask you about another thing we've kind of talked about but were holding it off until we got on the air to talk about it. But you went to a peyote ceremony? Yes Tell us about that because thats like the one psychedelic I know least about and have not ventured to try. I went in March so a few months ago A person invited me and I was a little hesitant but I said what the hell So I went and it was for a full weekend. And again, it was in Tecate at the Kumier Reservation and uh... It's actually the same place where Carlos Castaneda did a lot of his experimentation and transcending and evolving so

08:27 It was a couple of days, they had a sweat lodge. They had dancing and then that Saturday night is when they have the peyote ritual there were three shamans that conducted it so they had the campfire about 15 people around Basically, it was just in powder form. He gave everybody a scoop and you drank water with it and then didn't feel anything really and then they give you one more. It's equivalent to a gram I think. Then all of the sudden yeah, it started hitting but it was weird. shrooms or LSD in terms of the visual aspect of it. It wasn't full-on hallucinogenic, it was more like having an awareness or a connection with people around you as well as the earth I mean it seemed like the dirt was breathing and the tree was alive... You could sense that things were really alive

09:28 And so as the night progressed, you could see everybody going through a different experience. Man that sounds intense! How long does the drug last? I've heard it's like one of the longest running drugs in your system. The trip is apparently hours long. Yeah well...I think we started around 8 and I took three scoops, so that was 3 grams. Some people took 4 and yeah it went well...I felt it well into the next morning and you know the interesting thing about it too is about half of people were Americans half of them were Mexicans And Americans were starting to freak out like around three or four in the morning because they're going when is gonna be daylight? Because it seemed like two days seriously

10:29 I think because your senses are so stimulated and you're so aware of your surrounding, it's like when you were a child. Remember how time just seemed like it was so slow? It opens up, I think, a region of the brain which definitely affects that time continuum It was interesting how people were really... One woman was crying. She's going, there is never gonna be daylight! She was kind of freaking out. But all in all, it was a great experience and I'm going to do it again. Actually Adam Gowrightly and Andy Colvin and some other people want to do it next year right after the Paranoia Con so I'm going to try to get something set up. Damn that would be awesome! If you'd like? Yeah, I would definitely partake in that. I don't see myself having a job at that point if all goes well. So yeah why not clear the schedule? There ya go

14:04 and a trilogy of books on Hillary and Bill Clinton. He's here on the heels of a recent piece written for Paranoia magazine about the Boston Marathon bombing, and I couldn't be more thrilled! Victor welcome to the show man Well, it's great to be here with you and Ron and I look forward to this interview. And also feel very privileged to be able to write for Paranoia magazine which I've said for...I don't know how many years is the best magazine in America so it's great to be able to be part of it. Right on. Yeah, it's a real pleasure I mean I've been digging into your work all week And I'm hoping we can touch on several subjects But to start us off the catalyst for this show really was your Boston bombing article We just did a show two weeks ago as Sophia Smallstorm about Sandy Hook and the crisis actors and the idea that the event itself is more of A fiction than a reality do you feel the same way about the Boston Marathon bombing?

14:58 Well, not only do I feel that way but I believe that the Sandy Hook cover-up was possibly the impetus for the Boston bombing hoax in that in my opinion Conspiracy researchers who have been questioning the government for decades and decades, I think we came closer with reaching critical mass with Sandy Hook than any other conspiracy before that. In other words... When you look at the YouTube videos from Sandy Hook and they're up in the above 10 million hits, the powers that be got worried because they realized that once your hitting millions and millions of people questioning the official account. That data problem on their hands and the biggest problem to summarize it was when you go back to Sandy Hook what did we actually see? That proved the official story

15:59 What did we see with our own eyes? Did we see any dead children, dead teachers, any bloody victims, any escaped victims running from the school, any mass evacuation from the school. Any gurneys being wheeled out, bodies being loaded into ambulances anything like that We saw absolutely nothing other than what the media and the government told us. So I think on the heels of that is what really spawned, at least in part, the Boston bombing hoax." I think you can even go back to the Aurora shootings where it appeared that there was a very significant amount

16:44 I don't know, disinformation misinformation on the internet as well as you know just lack of surveillance videos and so each of these traumatic events from the Aurora shootings to Sandy Hook to the Boston Marathon bombing they seem to have the same ingredients, wouldn't you concur? Well and I would also throw in there Jared Loeffner out in Arizona with the alleged shooting that involved Gabby Gifford. So when you add all four of these together it seems like a pattern and what really

17:27 differentiated Boston from Sandy Hook was that whereas in Sandy Hook the public saw nothing, my perspective on this was that The Powers That Be said alright if you want blood and guts we're going to give you blood and guts. And not only that We're gonna give you so much more than that! We are gonna give you bombs and these amputees being pushed down the street and throwing a carjacking in this supposed midnight shootout The Sarnia brothers supposedly robbed a convenience store, which later was revealed that they admitted that never did happen. Then of course this all led up to this Friday Night Manhunt in prime time TV where half of America was sitting on the edge of their seats

18:15 watching this gunfight until he finally brought the younger brother, Dzhokhar Tsarniev out of his boat where he was hiding. I sat and watched it that night and it reminded me of Wag the Dog so thatís when the title came, ìWag the Dog meets a Strategy of Tensionî in that to me both Sandy Hook And the Boston bombing seemed to me like Wag the Dog spin-offs where one, they showed absolutely nothing. The other, they gave a better presentation than even Wag the Dog in that movie.

18:52 Robert De Niro, he says we're not going to have a war. We're going to have the appearance of a war so with the Boston bombing the same thing? The appearance of some type of domestic terrorism? Yeah I'll let that up to the listeners to decide. Yeah man! I actually loved that title. I recently saw Wag the Dog and if anyone hasn't seen it recently you gotta check it out. It is a phenomenal movie about manipulating the public with fake events and even Even as I was watching it the other day, there's a point where they're feeling particularly bold with their false reality and they say hey what's next we should line the president up for a peace prize. And boom you know here we are so i thought that analogy was a great way to reach people into understanding how events could be faked. What would it look like? Well it would look like Wag the Dog

19:44 Yeah, and I did the same thing. Last year I wrote a book called Conspiracy Hollywood Style where I listed or did reviews of the top 100 conspiracy-related movies primarily in America and so I rewatched Wag the Dog after many years what i will rewatch that uh... this is the blueprint but they're giving up this in the revelation of the method there showing us right before our very eyes are saying this and how we do it folks and um... and why did dogs right even up to appeal that came out only a couple years before nine eleven and you know they were used in the uh... the muslim terrorists and wag the dog and like look there it is

20:30 in a short three or four years the public doesn't even remember that in like the dog they showed up how they were going to fake this and as you said create uh... a fake reality and it's it's just a pre-mo movie that everyone should watch because i think hollywood even though they provide a lot of disinformation, there's also another element where they're saying we're going to show you. We're going to show you how we do it right here it is and that's what a lot of conspiracy Hollywood style was involved in was showing how Hollywood shows their hand to the public. Right Victor so is revelation of the method basically the same thing as or is

21:16 That's a good point. I would say Michael Hoffman, Iím not sure if he was the guy that came up with the term ìrevelation of the methodî but to boil it down into simplest terms is he says the New World Order ñ if thatís what we want to call them for argumentís sake ñ they become at some point so arrogant in their power that they say we don't care if you realize what we're doing because what can you do about it so predictive programming i would pay is more akin to the original manchurian candidate movie with frank sinatra on that came out a year or so or maybe fourteen fifteen months before the jfk assassination and that books also included in conspiracy hollywood style

22:05 And it's amazing how much predictive programming is in that movie to set the stage for the quote-unquote low nut killer, the mind controlled killer and on and on. So predictive programming I think is an element of The Revelation Of The Method. and the two work hand in hand where one can lead up to something which would be the predictive programming. Well, the revelation of method they finally say like okay here it is we've laid it out for you what are you going to do about it now? Something funny that happened to me recently I wanted to bring up on this episode was, I went to LA to be in an audience taping for The Price is Right and one of the contestants that made it on was from this group who came from Boston. They were all wearing these shirts that said Boston Strong! And they were all America'd out

22:55 And I really did just think about Wag the Dog and Shake My Head, because it's those little nuances and added details that really cement the tragedy in the publics mind. In your article you point out a couple of these emotionally manipulative details. They seem to be perfectly placed with a Hollywood quality to have come naturally out of sudden chaotic random bombing. It seemed like they had to pre-planned. Can you tell us a couple of those? These go back quite a way as I said in the Paranoia article, all the way back to the original Gulf War back in the early 90s where everyone remembers the yellow ribbons wrapped around the tree from that Tony Orlando and Dawn song. And then of course with 9-11 everybody had their little flags posted in their car windows

23:46 And so forth and with the Boston bombing, I guess that the theme song up at Fenway Stadium in Boston is Sweet Caroline. So who but the songs originator Neil Diamond shows up at the stadium to sing this song which is great celebration? And then Joan Diark told me about because she's from you know she saw The hockey players up there in Boston who gave all of their jerseys to the police officers that were involved with the Boston bombing, and everyone's chanting USA! USA! So they really tap into this patriotic vein.

24:25 and um... when there is this quote-unquote tragedy this is the flip side of the coin in that it makes people you know love their country even more become more nationalistic and i'm myself very nationalist aka love america but there's also that though dot ugly side of that where people are so manipulated exploited by these tragedies that they fall for these dupes And this type of symbolism, if you want to call that which came straight out of Wag the Dog was used very predominantly up in Boston. Yeah I think the main example that you give in the article which I did see a lot about on the internet and in conventional media was this amputee and cowboy Tell us about their roles they seem like the primary actors in the initial chaos

25:15 Right. Well, there's been a lot of debate about this subject and in the article I call The Wheelchair Man and The Cowboy Hat Man which was the iconic photo where they this guy in the wheelchair supposedly with his legs blown off is being pushed on the street by this big strapping guy wearing a cowboy hat looking like the marlboro man for what could be more all-american and more iconic than this photo of this tragic victim pushed by the marble roman But nothing about the wheelchair man adds up. Especially when I looked at that photo the first time, and when your legs are supposedly blown off where his were these are the biggest veins in a human body okay? There should be blood gushing out of his leg like a fire hose-I mean like a garden hose everywhere but when i looked at this photo for the first time

26:18 There was no blood, no blood anywhere. And there was no blood behind the wheelchair, there was no blood on...there was no blood anywhere and so then I looked at this so-called tourniquet and it would basically just like a bandana kind of tied around his leg. It wasn't a real tourniquet by any way shape or form and then even if This this you know guys like it did get blown off the worst thing to do was could be having him sitting upright because of gravity all the blood goes where Downward they would have them on a gurney with his legs pointing upward so none of it made sense and

26:58 So, the big debate over the Boston bombing revolved around well these people that run the world they're sick enough today to actually kill people. I mean look at 9-11! People were actually killed. Look at Oklahoma City! People are actually killed so are you saying nobody was killed? And what the premise of my take on this is that there could have been a second bomb where people were injured but The bomb where the crisis actors were was nothing more than a flashpot, where you had these actors then conveniently put in place. And why were they put in place? So that when this quote-unquote event occurred, you had the media right there and you could ensure that you got these iconic photographs of people rolling around on the sidewalk in paint is what it was. It wasn't blood, it was paint

27:52 and the wheelchair man with the cowboy hat, and so forth. So everything was set up like Wag the Dog so that they could get these photo... It was basically a big photo op, so then these pictures couldn't appear in newspapers all across America. Victor what's the ultimate motivation behind all this? I mean considering you've done it a lot of I think very exemplary work in researching these traumatic events. What's the motivation behind it? I always have people asking me this

28:28 Well, all of these I think that it's multifaceted when it comes to motives. There is an array with the Boston bombing, I would say if you boiled it down to the most important motive was that during this Friday night manhunt for Dzhokhar Tsarniev This was prime time TV. This was as good as it got, it was riveting people were sitting in their living rooms watching this and what did they see? They saw martial law in America!

29:04 They saw a city or town in complete lockdown. You had the tanks, you had 9000 lawmen from 30 different agencies, you have the helicopters in the air, the streets blocked off and then you had these SWAT team guys going house to house looking and searching inside people's houses, even when a lot of the people told them they didn't have permission to do so. Okay? So they finally capture this 19-year old kid and as the SWAT team members, the state police, the local police, the sheriffs and so forth are exiting this area you have both sides of the street lined

29:51 with people like it's a parade, giving them standing ovations and waving flags. Even huge flags. So what it was is in this twisted Orwellian sense, was that America was applauding martial law. It was paving... This was predictive programming for the future and one of the guys that I interviewed for this Scott Creighton he said the next step in line now because they go progressively The next step in line is that they're going to be shooting Americans with drum missiles on american soil so don't ratchet up to the next level but right here they got the green light america applauded martial law that night yet it definitely that seems to be the goal in my eyes i mean aside from drawing attention away from sandy hook which was a bit of a disaster

30:42 I do think you're right with the blood and guts aspect. That just fits too well, but yeah the martial law thing at the end of that event was pretty unprecedented You know for just two guys for two young kids? And you need to shut down every house in this city and go door-to-door Seemed a little extreme. I've never seen that in history anywhere ever No this was um like I said I watched it live as it unfolded and It was as good as it gets. It was fascinating TV, but afterwards when I saw this reaction, I mean literally shocked to see that this is how it had all been set up now. This was the coup de grace as they say that this was a final culmination where if Americans have any qualms

31:33 about martial law or the stormtroopers entering their houses that night it was all dismissed because why? Because the government is out there to protect us against the evil terrorists and It was amazing that I would say 90-95% of people watching that evening fell right into the trap and they were sitting there applauding and saluting them too. So it worked out perfect for them Agreed man, it just seems like another page out of the Manufactured Events playbook. But I want to switch gears a bit to another book you wrote recently called Machine Elves Cosmic Serpents and Quantum Magic This seems right up the THC alley. We've talked about Terrence McKenna plenty I'm a huge fan which is kind of where The Machine Elves come from but this place seems to be where conspiracy and psychedelics cross paths judging by the title the books obviously

32:31 deals with the psychedelic element and quantum theory, which they seem to be kind of interlinked as well. But can you tell all the people a little bit more about the content of that book? Dimethyltryptamine is involved I'm sure Yes, it is. One thing I have to revert back a little bit is that I get easily bored so I have 40-some published books and anyone who looks at the title of my book sees that they cover a wide array of different subjects and material. Ever since the 90s when I started reading Paranoia magazine, that was one of my favorite

33:14 It was my favorite element to it. When I go to a restaurant, my favorite kind of restaurants are buffets where you get to eat a little bit of everything instead of just having one meal. That's what paranoia has been for all these years is they cover all these different subjects and one of the biggest criticisms about the conspiracy movement is that a lot of times they pigeonhole themselves and they say okay well we can look at government conspiracies but were not going to look at UFOs or were not gonna look at psychedelic or where i could look at mind control or on-and-on so they basically set up walls around themselves and think this is all working a look at so in this book um...

33:58 I've had a decades-long interest in this subject, and even though I don't do drugs now, I did my fair share back in my wild days. What I did was look at the greatest ones in this field Robert Anton Wilson and Terence McKenna, Alistair Crowley Dr. John Lilly And so I put all of those out there as a basis and then combined it with not only quantum theory but also all of these other subjects you know brought in Carl Jung

34:39 and um... carlos castaneda and uh... a chapter of the secret life of plants which is an amazing chapter on that the consciousness the plants possess so when you combine all of these elements it opens up the vistas for our imagination to unheard of levels. And if you just tell yourself, I'm only going to be interested in the JFK assassination and 9-11 and that's it then you're missing out on all this other stuff. So that was this book and then one came before which was called Reality Bomb where my attempts really pay homage to these psycho nuts or pioneers

35:22 that um... paved the way for really a lot of what we did on robert anton wilson was hugely influential and paving the way as well as william burroughs uh... for what we do today so this is my way of just stop thanking them in allowing people to know who these were you know the people became before us civic duty think there's a concerted effort to suppress the use of these types of psychedelics or hallucinogenics as far as how DMT works and how it essentially opens us up to new realities and expands our consciousness. Oh, absolutely! I'm not the biggest expert on the law

36:11 of dmt but what i understand it's like a federal you know like the federal first-class federal fence to use her possessed the mp so basically what they're saying is they're gonna bring the hammer down to anybody that experimenting or allowing others to use this stuff there um... certainly trying to repress it and keep people away from it The big question is why? Why don't they want us to see these other quote-unquote realities while Robert Anton Wilson came up with the term consensus reality where in other words, that the government…

36:51 the church and the state media are all basically saying we want to create for you this version of quote-unquote reality that we want you to exist in or reside in. And, we don't want you know anything beyond that well you know in this book I also talked about experiments that I do with self hypnosis and scrying and that's what the final chapter is all about is

37:30 and you do this scrying exercises, it absolutely opens up different dimensions to you. In the past when I did LSD and other drugs, there's the doors of perception are blown open. It's sad or very regrettable that people are either afraid of this or have never done it. In a sense, you're accepting the reality that's been bestowed upon us by parents or schools or churches or governments. And to me that's not good enough! I won't accept that." Agreed man and i'm no stranger to the psychedelic method but what about this self-hypnosis? This escaping did you call it?

38:23 Scrying. What is scrying? How does one achieve that? Well, scrying is gazing into a mirror...is what it is so what I did was that um I learned this technique of self hypnosis where basically you create your own scripts and you read these scripts aloud and you use all these different techniques until finally, you're hypnotized. And people have misperceptions about what hypnotism is. They think that it's like what we see on TV where someone jumping around like a chicken and flapping their wings. Well, that's stage hypnotism but with real hypnotism is simply just a different and altered consciousness is what it is so I first

39:11 self-hypnotize myself and then I do this scrying experiment or technique where i look into the mirror and the things that happen are unbelievable especially when you bring in the idea of intentionality, where in these scripts that I write for myself beforehand. I'll say what I want to try to achieve during each exercise And once you put this element in and you guide yourself in the direction that you want to go, then amazing things happen. I'll send you a copy of this book if you send me your address. I'll put up a copy in the mail for ya but it's an amazing process and I'm gonna start doing it again probably in September when I finish up this book I'm doing now which is called Conspiracy Magic and that's magic with a K. What this book is all about

40:02 How do the powers that be, what techniques do they use on the masses to really put them under a spell or get them to accept their illusions? So it really ties in almost with this machine elves book in that conspiracy is really a form of magic and that they're making people believe something that either didn't happen or doesn't exist. So when you're gazing into the mirror for a long period of time, do you look different? I mean from a visual perspective. Well one of the things that happened was

40:42 that and this happened frequently on successive episodes was that when I'm staring into the mirror first of all my reflection would disappear it would absolutely disappear where i'd be looking into the mirror and My, I'm gone. My reflection is gone and then afterward there would be these other faces That would appear almost like a like a slow-moving I knew that they weren't my faces because anyone who's seen me, has a pretty distinct look. These people weren't me! I can tell you that for sure. I was able to do some type of automatic writing where I always have a pen and paper nearby

41:30 and so i would ask questions that i would get these answers and i was just sit there you know just scribble in the darkness yet to do this in darkness and then um... afterward i'd read uh... you know the messages that were delivered to me and it's amazing stuff so yeah they're wearing you know i can't i'm not arrogant enough to say that i know who these faces where or who they belong to because i don't And going back a couple of decades, I've had a number of these experiences where communications are sent to me. Again, I won't say who they are or where they came from because I don't know. You know? I have no idea where they come from but when they talk or when they communicate, I listen and you know these were some of the most pivotal points in my life is when I got these communications

42:22 And, you know as an example when I was 18 years old. I was a wild wild kid and you know I was runaway I was gone the whole summer kicked out of the house and one night I woke up or one morning after long night woke up And all I had done when I was a teenage kid, I only cared about three things. I was chasing girls, partying and driving around in fast cars you know that's my world and I'd never read books, I didn't know anything about anything. Well I woke up the next morning and there was this sunlight that was so insanely bright like 100 times brighter than anything I've ever seen and this message came down it said You're gonna be a writer

43:06 And years later, I'd never written anything in my life. I've never even read like 1984 or this was back in 1980s. I had never read anything and it said you're going to be a writer! And it was so powerful, I said okay then. I'll be a writer! It's like if it was up you know... I'm glad that didn't say I was going to be like a brain surgeon because that doesn't really sound too appealing to me but that how I started writing was via this message And looking back on it now, I'm certain that this insanely bright sunlight triggered the pineal gland and somehow had this massive burst of DMT that allowed me to go into this different dimension and somehow gaze into a potential future. Not an actual future but a potential future and just really amazing stuff.

44:01 Damn, that is interesting. I've never really heard of that method of achieving an altered state or channeling or whatever it really seems to be That's pretty wild. And it's funny you mentioned DMT and the pineal because there are a lot of people in the conspiracy world who talk about the global elite hitting us with chemicals, mainly fluoride with the goal of handicapping our pineal and its DMT function. Have you looked into that at all? Do you see that being the case? Yeah well basically like calcifying the pineal gland That to me sounds perfectly reasonable because if this is the you know, the ancient third eye and this is our almost like You know a passageway Or a stargate so to speak into these different dimensions then you know If it's could be calcified or this could be you know cemented over by fluoride or whatever other means Then what?

45:02 in essence, doing is saying that this escape mechanism from their consensus reality has now been blocked off from us. So I wouldn't doubt it for a second." Yeah it seems to be that the amount of energy and effort they put into suppressing psychedelics there has to be some ulterior motive because we know it isn't safety they don't give a shit about our safety! It should be pretty clear It's more about controlling the mind. Oh, well that's the absolute key to everything is controlling the mind and you know in this Machine Elves book these guys I write about were brilliant, brilliant individuals and Dr John Lilly who if you would ask even

45:50 Even you know a hundred people in the conspiracy movement if they know who he is I think the vast majority would shake their head and say no He was the guy that really Inspired to movie day of the dolphin, which is one of my favorite movies as a kid. And this guy Was absolutely one of the pioneers of psychedelic in uh... you know the fifties and especially the sixties then he was going places have taken such gargantuan amounts of these substances did i'm like a boy scout compared to him but stuff that he's done and he went places that i don't even know if anyone else has ever gone since then he was just a pioneer and when you throw in mckenna

46:38 and you know robert anton wilson and feel people like adam go rightly now have carried this tradition and you know specially the prankster because not only were these guys going other places but they're having fun Well, they were doing it. You know? They were having a blast Ken Kesey and the pranksters and all of these guys that they didn't take themselves so God-awful seriously And you know I thought a story the other day where there was this rodeo in Missouri and one of the rodeo clowns put on Oh Put on an Obama face, you know one of them rubber masks yeah, and there was such a blow up I

47:17 about this that they fired the rodeo cloud and there was all kinds of backlash about it and i'm thinking the left used to be pretty fine deal with abby hoffman in that you know sixty-eight uh... riots out there and uh... the chicago seven trial when he's here They used to have fun. What happened to the left now that they're so dead serious as a heart attack and, you know, so politically correct that they're not having any fun? So I think we need to bring this prankster element back in again and um...you know have a few laughs along the way because if we are not enjoying life what the hell is it all worth then

47:55 Amen man. And yeah, that's what we try to do I Adams great He's a frequent co-host here on THC. Yeah. I love that guy and he's fun Yeah, yeah. I've known Adam for many years and published his Death Cults book back in... A dark comedy? Yes! Yeah a real great book and I've interviewed Adam many times and have quoted him quite a number of probably quoted Adam go rightly more in my books than any other single writer so that shows you know how influential he's been nowadays Powerful

48:34 Well, you know earlier you had mentioned even people within the conspiracy movement getting pigeonholed or pigeonholing themselves and sectioning off certain topics. You know some shows won't talk about UFOs some shows won't talk about DMT And I like to pride myself on being able to talk about anything, you know? and...I want to talk about another one of your books because it seems- It's pretty interesting. It seems like one of the biggest threads in the conspiracy world is the idea that history itself In almost every era has been twisted and warped To tell people this story they, The Elite Want to be told! Just as you have gatekeepers in religion and science to tell us what isn't possible in this reality and where we come from

49:19 You know you obviously have those gatekeepers in history too, and you wrote a book a few years back called the Holocaust hoax exposed It's a bold title And I didn't learn about it in time to read the book But I've read as much about it as I could and I wasn't sure if I wanted to talk about it but there can't be anything Too taboo for me of this show. I won't allow it thought, really the elites have lied and twisted everything throughout history. The Boston bombing 9-11 even Christopher Columbus so nearly every world event has a slant engineered to shape our feelings and gain support for the elite's objectives so why would the Holocaust be any different? But let me have you talk about that. What did you discover about the Holocaust? Yeah, well I mean...I like your approach and your philosophy that nothing should be taboo because why can we investigate the JFK assassination or Pearl Harbor or OKC but then

50:15 the holocaust is off limits and i know some of that the big names are will mention any right now but did the biggest things in this field absolutely refused to touch this one for a number of reasons at all so i won't mention um... william burroughs quite succinctly, don't trust history. And he said this back in the 50s! So imagine now... He says because history can be revised or altered there are history filters when it comes to the Great Pyramids or anything like that so with this book its called The Holocaust Hoax Exposed

50:55 And from my perspective, it's the biggest conspiracy of the 20th century. So what I do in this book is only 170-180 pages long is I give this wide sweeping perspective on everything that doesn't add up and without going into a whole lot of details right now The big question is if we resided in Europe right now And the three of us were doing this interview, there's a real strong possibility that all three of us could be arrested for speaking about this subject.

51:32 David Irving and a number of people that are listed in the book have all been arrested and spent time in prison for questioning or engaging what's called revisionist history about the Holocaust. as many problems that we have in america one thing right now we should still cherish is that we have this ability to take a conduct this interview or publish books and magazines where we don't have to worry about being arrested the same thing can be fed all around the world so you know what i did in this book n people are strongly urged them to read it they could walk away from it deal with their own ideas but i contend

52:19 that what's known as the Holocaust was so greatly diminished from what is purported with, you know, the sacred six million number that in essence I don't believe that the Nazis or Adolf Hitler had any extermination program intact what they did was that you know jews and many many other europeans during including americans died in world war two most of them in the work camps died from starvation malnutrition and disease because the allies had bombed out the supply lines go to these work centers and when you have no water no food no medicine and your rampant with uh... you know bugs and disease

53:07 hundreds of thousands of people die. And that's the major cause of death was the bombings and the supply lines being cut to these war camps." I mean, it is an interesting thing that I've never really thought about all that much—and of course made probably a programmed response—but I think there are really just two main criticisms...two main problems with criticizing the Holocaust is what I mean to say. Firstly you know, you don't want to be painted as a racist or insensitive to people who were taken from their homes tattooed on their neck and put to work. I mean that's shitty any way you slice it but also World War II in the Holocaust is pretty fresh it involves so many people almost the entire civilized world as the term World War would imply

53:55 But there's so many pictures and personal testimonies and memoirs that it seems far-fetched that such a lie could be orchestrated without it being exposed somewhere. Well, the thing is that it is being exposed in a much bigger way than the last decade or so when we had the personal computer revolution. I have an entire section devoted to these memoirs that you mentioned and dissect all of them. A lot of people who've written these memoirs have come out years later and admitted that what they said were lies. And some of these stories are so, so far-fetched that it's amazing that they weren't vetted or that even got published in the first place I mean Oprah Winfrey just got burned a couple years ago on a big Holocaust book that she and the authors had to come out and admit you know that it was fake then stuff never happened and yeah I guess basically

54:56 I've done a lot of interviews on this subject and just without getting into whole lot of details, I just set it up this way is World War II was the last real war in that what we have now is occupations. You know, we go and occupy Iraq or we occupy Afghanistan or we occupied Vietnam but World War II was... This was a fight to the death! This was real war to see who's gonna run the world at that time so Germany guess what? Germany wanted to win this war As the war went on, in essence every single able-bodied man from the age of 16 up to 45 or 50 years old was out in the field fighting. Fighting the war! So this is a massive war machine behind them so you have all these

55:51 factories, and you have to produce bullets and boots and tank parts and airplane parts. And guns and all of these things so how are they doing this? You know, of course there'd be some women that could work in the factories but when you have basically the entirety of the German male population out there, you need a lot to support this war machine! So what they did is they captured … and the allies, and the Jews. And what they saw this as was free labor!

56:28 to keep this war machine ramped up and you need everybody you can in these factories, to keep producing the bullets and the guns and tank parts and airplane parts. What are you going to do? Are you going to kill them and waste all of these valuable resources and energy to transport them and bury everything or are you gonna put them into factories and have free slave labor?" Well, the Germans weren't stupid! The Germans said, we want to work these people. We need them to make our bullets for us! So it was completely illogical to kill off what was free labor. It would be like back in the slavery days in America if a plantation owner – even if he hates blacks –

57:15 He says, well I need someone to pick the cotton and drag the cotton. So what am I going to do? Either have free slave labor or kill all of the slaves! Well of course they're going to use the slaves you know it's to me the same rationale and it goes way way beyond that but thats the simple premise of it Yeah, I mean it's started definitely as i've been digesting this the past few days. It starts to make a little more sense and it's odd to me that i've never really even given it much thought and just accepted the story because The narrative is so strong And it's so aggressive in one direction but one point you made on another show was if you just wanted to exterminate all people of a given race

57:57 Why would you go to the trouble of transporting them, tattooing their necks and shaving their heads? Like that seems like something you'd do if you did want to keep people in a work camp low maintenance. You know shave their head and put a tattoo on him so you can number em all it's definitely degrading but um the motivation probably might not have been to kill. Yeah, well and I mean even Jewish Holocaust scholars admit that there were no quote-unquote concentration camps in Germany per se so you know they all had to exist outside of Germany

58:34 And considering that the Germans ran out of fuel, which is the primary reason why they lost World War II. Why would the Germans expend this much energy either transporting these prisoners out of the country to Poland or Lithuania? Or these other places and then even more importantly expand this vital resource They had to create synthetic fuel to keep their jeeps and planes and tanks running. When it comes to the tattoos, back in the 1940s we didn't have nice fancy laminated cards with barcodes on them that could be scanned.

59:13 They were workers in a work camp. They were tattooed so they could be identified, they shaved their heads because everybody had typhus there was life back then and Typhus was killing more people than any other disease There was so when they got prisoners in Jews and non-jews alike they shave their heads and burned her clothes to get rid of the life You know, this is really a little bit of logic and rationale and common sense. Some arithmetic is all you need to examine this subject with fresh eyes. And all I ask of people in this is if they get this book…

59:51 Go into it with open eyes. Go into without any of the propaganda associated with this subject and anyone that would buy it, and by the end of the book if they don't believe me send it back and I'll refund their money. You know, I stand by it. So do you think Dr Joseph Mingla was really involved in human experimentation in some of these camps? Whatever you want to call them Dr. Gregory Smith Yeah, I'm sure that some kind of experimentation went on, sure! And you know, I didn't go into any of the other extraneous elements of World War II so I don't even know if Mengele's name is mentioned in the book other than in one section

1:00:36 where I examined the memoirs, where one of the female authors mentions Mengele's name. But you know, it really took a lot of great pains to focus strictly on the Holocaust itself and nothing beyond that so yeah i didn't examine Mengele but um... barbaric practices going on during World War II? Of course they were. Of course, right. I mean well the term Holocaust itself implies an extermination you know a genocide and that is what you're getting at is that wasn't the primary motivation. We also had camps we had work camps for the Japanese and we dropped the atomic bomb so

1:01:18 were we much different? I mean, history is written by the winners and with that perspective you've got to keep that in mind when you're examining stuff like that. Oh absolutely! And the final part of the book gives the motivations behind why this ruse was perpetrated and again I won't go into details but when you finally get to end of the book and understand the motives and agenda at hand To me anyway, it all clicks and makes a great deal of sense. The best thing about this book was I read countless books and did so much research on the subject and most of the material is very dry, itís academic, technical or gets into the minutiae of just one tiny element of it. What I did was that I took the best of everything and gave a wide sweeping

1:02:14 perspective of the Holocaust and cover every subject of it. So basically what I did was years, and years, and years of research and put it all into a 180-page book, and it's all right there then that people can Iíve had people that wanted to disprove me and they read the book and they would go down to their public libraries or university libraries, and try to find information to refute it. And they would come back and tell me, like I can't find anything. I can't find anything to prove this Holocaust! So yeah...I stand by it and it was to me a major work that I thought had to be put out there. Right on man. Yeah sounds super interesting. I'm going to check it out but

1:03:06 You know, Victor we've covered a lot of ground from the Boston bombing to DMT to the Holocaust. It's been an excellent and mind-expanding conversation We're getting into kind of the end of the hour Do you want to tell people what you're working on next? And where they can find you online Yeah, people can go to wingtv.net that's w-i-n-g wing tv dot net My weekly articles are at American free press net That's the newspaper I write for and then of course You know appear in paranoia magazine The latest issue is amazing with the Boston bombing but you also Adam go rightly article on the dead comedians this

1:03:47 this this whole issue is so chock full of everything great so anyone out there listening if you're not a subscriber to paranoia or for that matter american free press what do you waiting for subscribe you know these are the last of the dying breed uh... of real journalism and you know just information out side of the mainstream media so you know ron ron's working at that often we are to paper so support these guys and um... you know wing t v dot net is my stuff and i'll be finishing up a book called conspiracy magic with the next you know few weeks or so and that'll be the next one after

1:04:27 Victor, I really appreciate all your hard work and all the articles that you've written for Paranoia over the past year. And I understand you have an article coming up in the fall issue? Do you not? Yeah it's a little short article but a potent one and it's about the Dalai Lama and his ties to the CIA and it covers one of possibly the most forgotten cover-up wars of all time, and that was the Tibetan Chinese War back in the 1950s into possibly early 60's. I guess gradually into the 60's but actually Ron was one who suggested this idea and I researched it and was amazed

1:05:18 I would mention this to other people, and the Dalai Lama, this Tibetan war, they're like what? Huh? I don't know anything about that. The article that Ron told me to look into a few issues ago about Stanley Meyer and the water car, and people were blown away by this article. And most people didn't know about that so this is what really paranoia brings. When I was talking earlier about conspiracy researchers

1:05:54 pigeonholing themselves. Paranoia never, ever did that and especially Ron right now. Ron's like blowing out all the windows you know what I'm saying? We're going places where people have never even heard of and that's why it's the best magazine in America so subscribe everybody! Right on man well Victor thanks again its been a real blast no pun intended enjoy the rest your day man Well, thank you and send me your address. I'll send some copies of those books out to you and thank you very much for having me on your show! Absolutely thanks man take care Take care you too bye-bye Damn man that was a pretty heavy stuff how'd you feel about that? Well it's interesting because i've known Victor oh for probably over 10 years now And when I put out my first magazine called MKZine which examined coercive mind control and invasive human experimentation

1:06:51 He was raving about that and he was really, he was an interesting guy. And you know I saw a few of his articles but the neat thing about Victor is to see how he's really progressed in his writing and his research. You know I think we all have a learning curve in terms of looking into conspiracies. And I think he's just really transcended and he's, I think at the pinnacle of his game right now and he's such a prolific writer. He's putting out all these books and writing for Paranoia American Free Press and some other publications as well so I really applaud him and I just think he has a really good spirit about him as well

1:07:39 Yeah, man. He was a cool guy! What's next for you? I assume...I gathered from that that you're picking up content for the new Paranoia issue Are there any other articles in there that are gonna be pretty mind-blowing of course Right we have an article on Hollywood Mind Control and You see a lot of stuff on the internet about that like on Vigilant Citizen this articles by Jamie Henshaw who's you know with Freeman and it's gonna blow your mind. There are other articles, other mind-blowing articles The Secret War on Human Consciousness by Frata X and he is a friend of Freemans' and so I think he might be a good potential guest for your show actually And of course we just talked to Victor and he has an article succinct to the point

1:08:35 Is the Dalai Lama a CIA asset? And we have an article by Mack White from Texas. He's a comic illustrator and I believe he has a radio show called Psy-Op Radio, and he did one on the JFK assassination called Daily Plaza & The Dream. It was sort of about his perspective on the JFK assassination since he was little kid when it happened until now And then we have an article called Good Vibrations. It's about the healing powers of resonance and it's actually excerpted from the book, The Resonance Key by Marie D Jones who you've had on your show and Larry Flaxman so those are just a few articles that are worth mentioning

1:09:30 Excellent, man. Just a taste! So if you're interested in the new Paranoia magazine this fall... Thanks Ron I appreciate you coming down to my neck of the woods and coming here for a live show it always sounds better when there's two people in the room so I definitely appreciate that and hopefully we can do it again sometime man My pleasure Well there you have it people, Ron Patton and Victor Thorne. I'll see you next week with Neil Kramer. Once again please check out conspirates.net or consider making a small donation at thehiresidechats.com slash donate. I'm strongly considering a break away from conventional life and regaining my freedom hoping to pay the rent with THC alone so if your entertained please do something to help us along even if its just an iTunes review or sharing this show on your Facebook or something

1:10:17 It's all currency to me, so thanks again. Take it easy out there. In my experimental film Which nobody knows about You're gonna have your face and boots at night You are gonna be in this experiment I can't explain, oh I can't explain The color of infinity Inside a glass It's for this experimental film Which nobody knows about

1:12:09 Which helps in figuring out what's gonna spin This experiment, I can't explain You're gonna feel it This experiment, I can't explain No matter how you do