THC 117: Ken Gerhard | Flying Humanoids, Mothman, & Winged Beast Sightings

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Holy hell, higher side chatters. How the heck are you? What a wonderful day it is smoking little smoke drinking a little drink here in sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and today we got a great show with Ken Girard talking all things flying humanoids winged creature sightings the Tengu the Teratorns even Leonardo da Vinci But before we dive in a lot of you have asked what is up with conspiracy HQ Why did it suddenly close and

00:58 Honestly, I'm as confused as a lot of you people. We spent months planning and having meetings and working everything out where we were going to have a great team all working together... The partner who owned the domain and did a lot of the web work decided to change the business model which really sucked. And some people in their group were really depending on this plan to work, and after changing the rules in the middle of the game two days later he shut down the whole website put it under someone else's control locked us out deleted his Facebook account and has disappeared really I don't get it. I've heard three conflicting stories as to why, honestly I wish him the best no ill will and I do wish it would have been handled differently but no hard feelings. I just have to move forward for myself which brings me to some of the changes here at THC

01:44 You know, I took this leap from the corporate world to pursue the one passion that I think i'm pretty good at and it's been great. And support has been amazing and these money bombs are hitting record numbers in bringing me 800 bucks a month or so and I'm giving out $800 a month or so...and that's great but it really isn't enough to live on and savings are going fast and I'm almost 30! I'm living on a wing of prayer and my girlfriend and I we want to move on with the next stages of life. I don't have any insurance I don't know how much i'm gonna have next month all these things are kind of difficult and super stressful and as much as I don't want to go this route. I hope I've done enough so far the show the people that I'm a guy of integrity but we are going to keep them on the bomb going it's been amazing other shows or duplicating it journalists writing articles about.

02:32 the creativity of the model and I would not get rid of that. THC has also traditionally been an hour-long show except for a few exceptions, and it's been free again nothing is going to change there we are still doing everything same but starting August 1st i'm going to be recording two hour interviews with every guest in the second our will be considered the plus show and will be available for $5 monthly subscription I know I am NOT super psyched either but If I want to keep doing this, this is how it's got to happen. I've talked to a lot of other podcasters in the field we are all figuring this out as we go it is a new sector of the economy and... This just seems to be the way it works

03:15 And it's how it's gotta happen and I hope the people value the show enough for it to be worth one latte a month or $1 an episode. I think it's the cheapest subscription in the field, I mean Red Ice is 8 dollars US, Mysterious Universe is 9 dollars, Coast 2 Coast is a national chock full of commercial breaks radio show and it's still $7.00 a month for the archives I think that's a lot to ask, and i think this is the best way to move forward for myself because I just can't be supported by ads we talk about way too many explosive topics in it just wouldn't work I can have sponsors suddenly pull out because we talked about the Boston bombing or the Holocaust or whatever maybe when I'm depending on that money to pay rent I've already been kicked off several networks who

04:01 At first we're super excited to have us on board, we're really happy about the numbers. We're really excited have a fresh new young show in the conspiracy market and then whether it be an F-bomb or controversial topic... we've been dropped! Art Bell's Dark Matter is the latest example but that's fine I just to do this show right were not going to be able to depend on Third parties. It's gonna have to be us, guys! I think some people are going to be really psyched about getting longer interviews so it's not all bad. I think it's gonna be awesome. I'm working out some of the stuff with people who've donated large amounts to The Money Bomb and those who have already been putting in monthly. I'm gonna talk to you all very soon, I'm sure. So keep your eyes open for a THC Plus edition to the menu bar at thehiresidechats.com And subscriptions will be open soon

04:52 We're keeping the Money Bomb going again for listeners because it's just done too much good. And I'm working on making many different payment options and combinations so you can have as many options as you want, and access to The Plus Show is gonna be easy and enjoyable... ...and will probably get better as we go! So there it is—I have ripped the band-aid off. I hope you'll all join me on The Plus Side. And I am going to need a new theme song also, so if you can create a high quality recording and sing and probably play piano, email me because I've got some ideas. And with that said let's get weird with flying humanoids and Ken Gearhart. I love you folks enjoy the show

05:34 Alright, Hiresight Shatters. You should know by now that every so often I like breaking up the analysis of secrets crimes and rituals of the elite with a good old-fashioned cryptozoology show and while we've taken an in depth look at mysterious creatures of the sea Sasquatch like ape men swamp dwelling lizardmen and the freaky wolfman sightings of the American Midwest there's really only one category of cryptid left that could really raised the bar of high weirdness and that's the bird men, the winged beasts in the far reaching category of flying humanoids which have a rich history of sightings and span centuries and beyond. And my guest today is Ken Gearhart, the current king-of-the hill when it comes to strange wings that go flap in the night thanks to his recent book Encounters with Flying Humanoids Mothman Manbirds Gargoyles and other winged beasts

06:22 Ken is a world famous cryptozoologist investigating creatures from all over this wacky planet and has been featured on shows like Monster Quest, Legend Hunters and Coast to Coast AM. And I couldn't be happier to have him here on THC. Ken my man how the hell are ya? Hey Greg it's great to be on your show! Oh thanks man thanks It is a real pleasure. I'm a guy who's pretty much over Bigfoot and the only cryptids that still intrigue me are the weird sightings of things with wings, so I really dug this book and there're so many sightings in it! Were you surprised at all by just how much material you ended up finding? Oh yeah, absolutely. And you know the thing Greg is that due to my books being out there and some TV shows I've done on this topic, I continue to get reports from people

07:11 seemingly credible eyewitnesses that have had these remarkable encounters with different flying cryptids. I find that very inspirational, the fact that we're really just scratching the surface here in terms of the amount of material out there that's been documented and I was very fortunate to come across quite a wealth of material. But you know, it really makes me wonder how many people out there have had these experiences that are for whatever reason probably ridiculed and so forth have been reluctant to come forward and share their experiences? So definitely a fascinating mystery Yeah man, and I do want to go into a few of these stories but before we do the term flying humanoid is pretty wide and covers a diverse number of weird descriptions. But can you help the people get kind of a mental picture of what some of these creatures have looked like?

08:02 Well, you know that's one of the really frustrating things Greg is that the descriptions of these so-called flying humanoids. You know they seem to whatever these things are they seem to take a variety of different forms now apart from the Mothman of course which is the most iconic figure within the phenomenon there reports of the Mothman seem to be fairly consistent from a number of different eyewitnesses, but as you go across the globe and it doesn't in fact appear to be a global phenomenon with sightings all over the world. The characteristics of these beings apparitions entities whatever they are very very different now flying humanoid Of course is a very broad based term so yeah You're essentially talking about something that is for the most part a humanoid type of form

08:50 You know, much like us. Body shoulders arms legs but then in many cases you know the additional wings you know sometimes more animal-like characteristics something halfway kind of a hybrid human beast batman type creatures bird man type creatures things like the Jersey Devil, essentially gargoyle types of creatures. And then in Mexico you have these videos and alleged sightings of what they call unidentified flying humanoids which are essentially just man-shaped figures without any types of wings or flying apparatus that are just kind of floating through the stratosphere so

09:32 Quite a quite a bit of diversity there in terms of descriptions Yeah, man There was definitely a couple of weeks back in the day where I got really sucked into a ton of YouTube videos about Dudes just floating in the sky and Mexico and it's really trippy and really weird And I don't know Spanish some listen to them talk about it. I'm just like it adds another layer of Mystique to it because I don't understand the language I'm looking at this guy floating in the sky and I'm like what the hell is going on? Yeah, you would certainly expect to see and there have been theories put out there. And perhaps in some cases these could be misidentifications of something was suggested maybe man shaped balloons kind of being launched into the air or some type of top secret.

10:14 government experiment where they're using some type of flying apparatus that maybe is not visible with the human eye, so. But they do seem to be quite prevalent particularly over the past decades So no one really knows exactly what's going on here Yeah, it's a weird one. But you've got stories in this book that go all the way back to the 1800s but I mean really we have depictions of humans with wings going all the way back to Samaria The oldest known civilization with the earliest writings along with things like Icarus and descriptions of even angels I mean the concept doesn't seem to be as foreign to humanity's history as it is in modern days right?

10:53 Yeah, that's true. In antiquity we can find reference to winged humanoid types of beings and as you suggested I mean just go back to the ancient Sumerians. Different civilizations around the world had similar mythologies – the ancient Assyrians ancient Egyptians, the Aztecs and Maya. So Asia Africa like I said it's a global phenomenon and what's really you know to me one of the really compelling aspects of the case is the fact that you have this lore this mythology around the world of these types of beings and they're often likened to essentially demigods so some type of higher beings. It's a weird one

11:36 You know, let's look at some of these early ones. I mean the Wright brothers built their first working airplane in 1903 if i'm not mistaken so before that people shouldn't be seeing anything other than birds in the sky yet we have these stories can you tell us about a couple those early sightings you have from like late 1800s maybe one of the ones you find most intriguing? Well, one that's really very well known within the field in the early part of the 1900s actually right around your 1900 a so-called Batman we're not talking about the Caped Crusader here were essentially what people described as a human like form but with batlike wings and kind of a hideous looking face was seen flying over Coney Island New York by you know

12:26 allegedly hundreds of spectators kind of just flying through the air and what they described as a frog like swimming motion. The same being was apparently seen a year earlier flying over Brooklyn by another gentleman, and so you know this is based on articles that were published in the New York Times over a century ago In the 1800s, there were things like Spring Hill Jack. Not a traditional flying humanoid in the sense that he wasn't really flying but as his name would indicate he was said to bound effortlessly through the air impervious to gravity and this strange being was cited by many people in suburbs and around London England back in 1830's late 1830's throughout the 19th century

13:12 There's also a case I talk about in the book, The Valkyrie of Voltania. This is a small town in northern Spain where what was described as a woman with white flowing robes was seen soaring through the air against the wind by a number of people and some people even reported that they could hear this angelic singing voice or of

13:51 a crazy scientist who made some weird invention. And you know, a lot of those early stories there's a couple of them in the book that seem to involve people with weird suits and mechanical like wings which makes me wonder if people weren't experimenting with flying and secret way back earlier than before we know Well, we certainly can't rule that out and you know in the book I discuss Leonardo da Vinci who of course was a fabulous inventor as well as being an artist kind of visionary. He spent a great deal of his time apparently trying to construct artificial wings that could be strapped to his body so he could fly through the air. No one really knows if he was ever successful or not. We assume

14:36 We're talking about the 1600s there. The concept, the notion that humans have been trying to devise artificial wings or flying contraptions goes back centuries so who knows? Maybe some of these people were successful Yeah man, I like that you brought up Da Vinci because...I've heard this mystery before and it-it you allude to it in the book. You kind of touch on it but he has that painting aerial view of a landscape and the painting is so accurate It looks like something off Google Maps And it makes you wonder if he ever might have gotten airborne and not really told anyone about it

15:16 Absolutely. Yeah, that is a pretty remarkable aerial view painting for someone that allegedly was never airborne so it's definitely a great and enduring mystery throughout history Alright man so to dive into some of these encounters One of my favorite ones in the book was probably this one had by Leonardo Salmoningo. He was a Mexican police officer and can you tell us about what happened with that one? Ah, yeah. Definitely one of the strangest cases on record and also a great topic of discussion many people do ask me about this case and I had the great privilege to interview this gentleman when I did an episode of a TV show called Monster Quest back in 2009 but yes his name is Leonardo Samaniego he is a police officer

16:11 in a community called Guadalupe, Mexico which is kind of on the fringes of Monterey. And back in 2004 he claimed that he was you know on patrol late one evening in the neighborhood and he saw this shape kind of descending from the sky out of apparently out of a tree and at first he thought it was just like a big garbage bag that was kinda floating around in the air But as he stopped his car and his eyes adjusted, shining headlights on this thing. He could see that it was what he described is a hideous woman kind of a hag like witch with dark brown skin large black lidless eyes sharp claws and she was kinda leering at him ominously she was floating in the air She wasn't actually standing on the ground, just floating several feet above the ground And he said that she's wearing this black kinda hooded cloak

17:04 and pretty creepy. He was obviously freaked out as we would probably all be, began to back his police car out of there while calling for backup. Well he was kind of looking behind him when backing up but when turned back around and faced forward this apparition had shot through the air at his patrol car in unbelievable speed and landed on the hood of his car and was actually clawing at him through his windshield. This was more than poor Leonardo could take, he blacked out went into shock and was discovered a few minutes later by other responding officers and some EMS workers

17:41 Leonardo was taken to the hospital and evaluated for psychological problems. He was tested for substances and he got a clean bill of health, which made big news in Mexico. headline news on the local news channels and newspapers. So no one really knows exactly what he saw, now after his sighting apparently other people did come forward and claim that they had also seen what was described as a bruja or witch Spanish word for which is bruja So when we interviewed Leonardo back in 2009, this is five years later. He's still a police officer working there and Guadalupe This this gentleman actually broke down and wept throughout the interview he said that he still has nightmares about this experience And it's really affected his life in a pretty profound way so You know this is a tough hombre so That was was pretty pretty remarkable Yeah man It seems like

18:42 extra strange encounter because they don't usually seem to be that intense. They like coming right up on the hood and trying to physically attack it, it doesn't seem like that happens all that much right? It's-that's kind of rare. Well not necessarily now There have been many cases for example when we go you know going back again to The Mothman Mothman which was reported numerous times in years 1966 and 1967 In around a little town called Point Pleasant West Virginia Mothman was said to have chased people's cars at speeds approaching 100 miles an hour, essentially trying to frighten or terrify them. The same behavior was described by another gentleman in Mexico back in 2009 who claimed that his car was chased by this horrible flying human-like creature.

19:36 There are two gentlemen in Wisconsin back in 2006 who claimed that their car was dive-bombed by this creature that was kind of a bat. man bat type of creature that was very hideous looking. So there does seem to be many cases where these creatures, beings are seemingly aggressive towards humans now no one's ever claimed that they've actually been physically accosted or assaulted by one of these things but they do seem to want to chase terrify and attack human beings at every given opportunity

20:13 I'm curious because some of these things it's hard for me to visualize because they seem to be almost more paranormal than flesh and blood. Do you think that they're split or do they lean one way or the other? Well, as a traditional cryptozoologist, I have a really tough time accepting these things as flesh and blood, and that's why I keep referring to them as apparitions and entities. No one really of course knows what they are it's pure speculation at this point but there is nothing in the natural world in our fossil history that would indicate that humanoids or human-like forms have ever developed wings or anything looks remotely like a flying humanoid

20:55 And their behavior, as I suggested is quite unnatural as well. So you know my personal feeling is that these things are somehow supernatural in nature not wholly flesh and blood creatures at least the way we understand it although they do appear to have physical presence or characteristics somehow manifesting into a physical form. But, you know there are number of different words that have been tossed around some people refer to them as interdimensional or extraterrestrial supernatural so I mean kind of take your pick there but you know i definitely do not think that they are flesh and blood

21:40 creatures in the way that we perceive it. Do you put much stock in the theory that some of these sightings of these winged creatures are some type of metaphysical bad omen or a warning of impending doom? I know that's popular Yeah, that's another kind of prevalent theme You know and this goes back to the ancient Assyrians They worshipped a winged demon known as Pazuzu and Pazuzu of course might be familiar to those listeners out there who are fans of the Exorcist movies because Pazuzu is the demon that's kind of The antagonists in the exorcist trilogy, but Pazuzu was

22:22 viewed by the ancient Assyrians as a bad omen, a harbinger of cataclysmic events, famines floods droughts and so forth. There are other legends around the world. The Scree of Scotland is a flying witch-like creature that has been associated with war and different other disasters, Most of the flying humanoid legends around the world characterize these beings as bad omens. Again, talking about the iconic Mothman, there was a tragic bridge collapse that occurred in December 1967

23:12 in point pleasant west virginia where forty six people lost their life from there this bridge collapsed in these cars plunged into the the ice equal uh... ohio river and that this was right around the time of mothman was um... being cited a reported in around point pleasant so to this day many other people have interviewed from point pleasant view the appearance of the mothman as eight all men at this this horrible bridge collapse is gonna happen self Trippy stuff man. You mentioned the fossil record and I've heard you also talk about, I think your previous book of yours is Big Bird where you're talking about sightings of more bird-like cryptids but in terms of the fossil record there is something there for Thunderbirds which is kind of interesting because I've always thought it was a fascinating concept of these massive massive kind of mystical weird strange birds found but tell us about Teratorns? I'd never heard this before

24:08 Yeah, the pterotaurins were massive birds that lived during the Ice Age up until about 10 to 12 thousand years ago. We found fossils that are ten thousand year old in the La Brea Tar Pits of California and elsewhere in the western United States and also South America. And these pterotaurians which probably resembled condors and also vultures they were some seemingly related, had wingspans anywhere from 12 to 17-18 in North America feet across. And in South America there was a specimen known as Argentavis that had a wingspan of about 24 feet across so essentially airplane sized birds

24:53 from the raptor family. So they did exist, we know from the fossil history at one time and these descriptions very much match with modern descriptions of so-called Thunderbirds. Thunderbird is a name that's sort of borrowed from Native American mythology, many different indigenous tribes around North America speak of these so-called Thunderbirds which were so big that they could block out the sun when they flew overhead and they are often associated with storm fronts hence the name thunderbirds. So you know very compelling evidence there that

25:33 If these Thunderbirds do exist, and I've actually documented and collected many modern sightings of these Thunderbirds all over North America that they are perhaps related to the Teratorns. It wouldn't be the first time Greg that a fossil form Has essentially sprung to life You know that has been discovered in some remote corner of the planet something that we assumed was has been extinct for thousands or millions Of years has has been discovered alive and well, so that that is a possibility Yeah And in that same vein I know there's a lot of sightings also in that Big Bird book about modern-day Pterodactyls in Texas of all places. What's up with that? I mean are there any good stories there and

26:18 Oh yeah. When I mentioned the Thunderbirds, I should have also explained that I do receive pretty much an equal number of reports of the traditional Thunderbirds which again are described as giant feathered black birds with a hooked beak very similar to an eagle or vulture but an equal number of people have reported to me that they've seen something quite different, which is also referred to as thunderbirds. Even though they're not birds at all, they seem related to the pterosaurs, which were enormous in many cases enormous flying reptiles that were contemporary with the dinosaurs and we're very familiar with them from fossils that have been found but uh... these were you know basically giant flying reptiles without like wings presumably leathery skin uh... you know of course the pterodactyls which are very familiar to most listeners because if they're uh... appearance in movies like jurassic park and so forth ahead of large head like

27:20 or large crest on the back of their head. Many people have reported to me that they've seen these living pterosaurs throughout North America and elsewhere, now that's really even more of a mystery because as I mentioned these things have presumably been extinct for 65 million years and there's no trace of them in the fossil history within the past 65 million years. So a little bit more hard to believe that something like that could survive, that span of time as opposed to the Teratorns which lived only 10 thousand years ago which is really only a blink of an eye in geologic time but I do get equal numbers of both kinds of flying cryptids

28:05 It would be so awesome to find out that pterodactyls had survived in some remote island or some kind of crazy place, but if for some weird reason they were still around in small numbers I mean that would... kind of it could explain some of those weird batman-like sightings of the 1800s because they might not have been as familiar and they do have kind of long legs if i remember correctly but weird yeah they may have some some characteristics that could be described as similar to a bat perhaps which would again be likened to a primate or human but moreover I mean, I think if pterodactyls had survived it would explain the legends of flying dragons and dragon-like creatures all over the world for centuries because they look pretty much as close to our interpretation of a dragon say from you know from The Hobbit movies than anything else that we can really think of now.

29:05 You mentioned remote corners of the planet. There have been accounts of these living pterodactyls from places like Africa, Central Africa and also from Papua New Guinea which are very very remote and unexplored wilderness areas so I mean i guess that is perhaps a little bit easier to believe than than, say the reports that I've collected from places like Georgia and Oregon. But as a cryptozoologist, I try to remain as open-minded as possible and certainly there have been things that have been discovered out there that scientists were reluctant to accept

29:44 until we found them in the flesh. So it is a possibility. Absolutely, man! And speaking of Texas with some of these pterodactyl sightings this is also where of course the Houston Batman is from which I believe your hometown right? and I really like that one there seems to be a lot of witnesses Yeah, the Houston Batman is another great story and it was first referenced in Fortean literature by of course the great John Keel who wrote The Mothman Prophecies book. He's kind of a pioteer in flying humanoid research I've tried to follow his footsteps

30:21 I lived in Houston, Texas for about 20 years. I was familiar with the story because I've been reading Kiel's books since I was a young boy but the Houston Batman was allegedly encountered by three people back on June 18th of 1953 and this was in an old neighborhood in northern Houston known as the Heights. And according to these people, they were out sitting on their porch one night it was very hot obviously during the summer anyone that's been to Houston during June knows how hot it can get even at night very humid and uh... they apparently didn't have an air conditioner so they're sitting on their patio and suddenly they saw this shadowy figure uh... moving through the air and um... at first he thought it might be just a you know large moth that was being silhouetted by the streetlights and as they, their eyes adjusted to light they saw this thing kind of land on the branch of a large pecan tree and if they watched it they could make out the figure what they described as a

31:20 large man standing about six and a half feet tall with bat-like wings attached to his back and shoulders. And what's really weird is that they described him as wearing a paratrooper type of uniform with a helmet, knee length boots and a tight fitting black suit. He also appeared to be giving off this strange yellowish gray glow and for several minutes he kind of rocked back and forth on the branch of this large pecan tree. And then the light began to fade out, and he literally vanished from their sight. A few minutes later they also witnessed what they described as a torpedo-shaped object shooting up into the air. So one particular witness, this woman named Hilda Walker was so freaked out that she went to the local police

32:11 and filed a report the next morning, and subsequently the Houston Batman was featured in a newspaper article in the Houston Chronicle Newspaper. So that's how we learned about the Houston Batman there have not been any subsequent reports that I'm aware of but pretty chilling tale yeah man what possible explanation could be The outfit makes me almost think it's like a secret military experiment if nothing else. Beginning in 1947, when the name Flying Saucer was coined right after World War II and following the testing of the atomic bomb and then detonation of atomic bombs in Japan.

33:08 reports of these so-called flying saucers that were being cited all over the United States and elsewhere. And understandably, people associate the Houston Batman with kind of a UFO or extraterrestrial origin but you're right it could also be some type of covert government experiment or black ops type situation. Well on the subject to UFOs, you've got a whole chapter on these types of sightings along with UFOs Is there like a rich history of that? Seeing people alongside crafts, like seeing people that are also coming off the ground alongside these crafts.

33:47 Well, I wanted to broaden the scope of the book. Certainly people have written at length about Mothman and there are some other types of flying humanoids out there that are lesser known but I found throughout the course of my research that there do seem to be many cases of humanoid types of beings that are seen in conjunction with UFOs and Obviously, they are impervious to gravity. They seem to be either floating through the air or flying through the air to the craft and so forth. With regards to the Mothman, at that time it was being sighted around Point Pleasant in West Virginia there were also many reports of flying saucers and lights in the sky – I say flying saucers but I should

34:38 and lights in the sky. Many of these were seen by John Keel when he was in Point Pleasant investigating other local residents, so there does seem to be some type of association with at least some of these flying humanoid beings and the UFO phenomenon what that connection or that link is I can't say for sure but I definitely wanted to draw attention to that in a book because it seems to be a factor Absolutely, man. And I also love examining myths and legends or stories of angels which are flying people It's interesting because we assume our conventional history tells us that anything that the myth is just based in complete fantasy but

35:20 It makes me wonder sometimes where some of these ideas come from. An example you have in the book is the Japanese have a legend that I hadn't heard before about something called the Tengu, which is kind of in this wheelhouse correct? Yeah, the Tengu very prevalent in Japanese folklore going back to medieval times have been written about extensively and in different legends and poems and so forth. The Tengu are essentially bird men In the sense that they are you know human-like in form except that they have these large feathered wings And in many cases they have either a beak or

36:00 or a long nose that looks like a beak which is kind of interesting. The Tengu are described as mischievous forest spirits, not necessarily dangerous to humans. Oftentimes they're characterized as being very playful but in many cases they are perhaps vengeful and somewhat malevolent towards human beings so that the Tengu fit it kind of into a category and I tried to classify these different flying humanoids is best I could Greg even though there's quite a challenge because the broad range and scope of descriptions. But the Tengu, I put into a chapter about what are called Birdmen and the Birdman just as the name would indicate are essentially man-like figures that have been described as having large feathered wings. And then another category I described are the Bat Men which we've talked about a few those already that you know are essentially man like but have the traditional leathery

37:02 kind of bat-like wings. So, you know a kind of tall order in terms of trying to make any sense out this particular enigma but there do seem to be at least a few major groups of flying humanoids that have been documented Yeah, and the reason I brought up the Tengu is because I love when sightings can somewhat coordinate with a legend because it just adds a layer to that legend. And there's sort of an example of this in your book where I think it was a US soldier who was stationed into Japan and he saw something that kind of fit the description right?

37:40 Yeah, back in 1953 a US soldier named Earl Morrison who was stationed in Kyoto Japan. He was standing guard duty one night and he claimed that this thing came out of the air and Tara startled him and he actually took a shot at it first he thought it was a large bird approaching but he said if thing got very close to him you could definitely make out that it was very human like appearance although it did have large feathered wings He reported to his commanding officer that he actually fired at this thing and it kind of vanished. And he later found out that another soldier, who was also a standing sentry in the same location had encountered this same thing I think a year before

38:26 So his description is actually kind of dead on as far as the Japanese Tengu goes. Essentially you have this folklore, mythological creature and then suddenly you have a sighting that puts it into modern context. It's quite remarkable. And I wonder if there's some ability of the human mind that we don't fully understand to manifest things that we come up with in our imagination. Because you see people who are magic practitioners, they talk about conjuring and summoning and evocation. And I wonder if there is not some mechanism that's left unexplored that brings these beings into existence somehow? It's weird but it seems like something like that could be a possible explanation.

39:18 Well, yeah. Certainly if you broaden your scope of possibilities – and I think this is something that I mentioned in the concluding chapter of the book – it It has been suggested that humans may have the ability, because we certainly know and understand that our minds are far more powerful than we can imagine. And if you buy into the ability of humans to have different telepathic abilities and so forth... Who's to say that we do not have the ability to manifest these you know, kind of physical constructs from the deep recesses of our mind. And a lot of this goes back to for example the Swiss psychologist Carl Jung and his theory about global consciousness and the fact that all human beings throughout history have been connected on a subconscious level. That's why we have these prevalent themes that have recurred throughout history and a lot of them do relate to our spiritual beliefs

40:18 and superstitions, and folklores and so forth. So that is one possibility I think is that we are actually able to for whatever reason essentially take these darkest fears from our unconscious minds and project them almost like a hologram onto the fabric of our reality Yeah, it's trippy stuff but you gotta find an answer somewhere and I think that as slippery as it is to define. I think it might be something in that vein But it would also be interesting for someone to go and look at all these

40:56 these sightings and see if outside of just Mothman, if there are other disasters that coordinate with them. You know maybe something happened in Japan around the time of the Tengu sightings that we just talked about or some kind of weird like maybe there were Mothman type visions around Fukushima or 9-11 or something like that you know? Yeah well they're there are kind of ambiguous statements to that effect. There were flying humanoids sighted, for example right before 9-11 flying over Manhattan you know right over Japan before the Fukushima accident and right over Chernobyl before the nuclear accident there I haven't been able to verify any of those although i've heard these rumors floating around but you know you got a wonder if this somehow again goes back to uh...

41:46 the concept of prophecy, you know. And whether these things are somehow, you know they're omengers that we somehow summon them maybe collectively to warn us about things impending disasters and other tragic events. again it's just it's so hard to even talk about without sounding so silly but I mean there's a lot of sightings out there people are seeing something and another thing I loved about your book is you have a whole section on modern sighting specifically which is missing from a lot of cryptid books because it's great to hear about things people saw in the 1800s or even the 1960s but

42:28 I'm kind of more interested in what people are seeing now. You know, I want to know that I have a chance of seeing whatever it is that i'm reading about and It's kind of been awhile since the book came out Are there any hotbeds of flying humanoids in the states right now? Like if I wanted to go out hoping for a sighting Well, there are you know one of the great benefits of being able to put a book like this out and do interviews like I'm doing with you and appearing on different television shows that deal with the subject is that it does create an environment where people are willing to perhaps come forward and talk about experiences that they've always been reluctant to share. You know there's an obvious

43:12 element of ridicule that's associated with these types of claims. But I do continue to get reports and receive reports on a regular basis, and I always make an attempt to interview these people. Certainly there are cases where perhaps people are either delusional or hallucinating or misidentifying what they're seeing, misinterpreting. But I continue to get reports from people and some of them seem to be quite credible. These are very sincere people that believe that they've seen these creatures. They obviously have no explanation for what it is they're seeing, so you know it's an ongoing phenomenon and as I said at the outset that the number of accounts that are documented in the book are probably only scratching the surface. There are probably

44:06 There must be, in my mind, thousands of encounters that have never come to light because people just simply have not wanted to talk about it and don't know where to go with this information. Absolutely, I'd venture to guess the same thing. And you mentioned Mexico a little bit earlier and Mexico does seem to have just a ton of UFO sightings and flying humanoid sightings recently. Would you say we get more video evidence from Mexico than any other place? It seems that way to me Well, yeah. I think that's a fair statement. I've spent a lot of time researching down there for the flying – not only flying humanoids but also other mysterious creatures. Mexico is a nation that is really steeped in mystery and you could

44:57 Essentially, you could make a case that it probably stems back to the great civilizations that developed there. The Maya, Aztecs, Zapotec, Olmec – all of these ancient civilizations that many people have sort of linked or connected to the UFO phenomenon, ancient aliens and so forth if you believe in that type of thing. But moreover people in Mexico seem...the culture there seems to be very accepting of mystery and the unexplained and that's one thing I found when I've gone down there is they're very aware and very keen that there are things going on around them that perhaps here in the United States we live a little bit more of kind of a skeptical culture

45:43 and we try to find a comfort in the explainable possibilities, which I understand that. We like to consider ourselves as being very advanced culture up here. In Mexico though you know as I mentioned earlier when a police officer claims he encounters this flying witch it's not a B-side story that's kind of smirked at it. It's actually headline news, you know? And with regard to the UFO phenomenon and you have a number of really dedicated UFO researchers down in Mexico, sky watchers that spend a considerable amount of time scanning the air and looking for these things

46:26 So, you know I think the fact that they're very proactive and also very open-minded. I think that creates a lot of opportunities for these incidents to come to light. Well another interesting thread on that line is that some researchers kind of conclude that belief and acceptance and willingness to see these things is almost a requirement or prerequisite for their appearance because in the conclusion section of the book you kinda talk about the possibility Intuition is involved because a lot of the sightings of Mothman or a lot of the witnesses of Mothman seem to be younger women and people talk about children being more open to it and especially women so that kind of maybe allows these things to come into their reality, and if people have

47:16 culture of that in Mexico, that would kind of be an explanation for why they're seeing more things. Yeah, that's a great point Greg we you know as we get older for example We tend to develop filters or boundaries You know we define our own reality and Therefore, we may not be as perceptive to things that are going on around us because they simply do not fit neatly into the paradigm of how we want to live our lives. great willingness to open ourselves up and to really view the world with a very young and fresh perspective. Therefore, there are number of accounts of young people for example seeing not only

48:06 these flying humanoids, and I document many cases of that in the book. But also other types of inexplicable phenomenon within the realms of cryptozoology, supernatural UFOs and so forth. That's a great point. Their willingness in Mexico perhaps to embrace the possibility that some of these things do exist perhaps allowed them to open up their filters See these things whereas here in North America, you know we've kind of set our boundaries and therefore Maybe not as apt to encounter or experience them. Yeah man I agree and not to be too conspiratorial but I've had researchers come on the show in a broader sense talking about life in general that say that

48:55 The elite are so adamant about defining that for children, you know magic isn't real monsters aren't real. You can't affect your reality They're so adamant about throwing those things into the minds of younger people because you do have the power to shape your reality But if they define it for you and they put you in a smaller box and you feel more powerless You're just going to go to your nine-to-five job for a few decades and then call it a day So maybe there is some mechanism there that applies to all areas of life including weird cryptid sightings. But yeah, oh go ahead. I'm sorry, just on that point if we can make like a brief social commentary about that. It seems that in this the day and age we live in now with with the amazing technology and stuff it's available as I look around I see everyone around me kind of staring into their mobile devices you know they've got a little virtual computer screen in front of their face so in that sense I think that we probably are going to be losing touch even more

49:56 with our environment, our natural environment and things that are going on around us. As I travel around the world and I've had the great fortune to travel to 26 different countries on every continent except for Antarctica, countries that are, for lack of better word third-world countries in countries where they are not able to acquire this technology you see people that essentially are just sitting outside sitting on their front porch sitting on a park bench and just observing the world around them. And that's what people do in some of these other countries, and so I think that's very advantageous for them in terms of being able to really experience life and perhaps experience some of these great mysteries that are occurring around them. So yeah, I think here in the US we're going to as time goes on become more dependent on mobile devices and so forth that were gonna be missing out quite a bit

50:53 I agree, on one hand you can't see what's going on in the sky if you're looking down at your phone but on the other hand everybody has a recording device with them. But that's true on the to talk about Mexico one more time The chupacabra obviously is a legendary cryptid in that area and the Southern California area There's been a few sightings, but I just interviewed Robert Morningstar Who's more of a UFO guy and more of a secret space program guy? but he has a theory that the Chupacabra are actually the hunting dogs of the greys which is uh or really, really well-defined and far out explanation. But do you have any thoughts on what the chupacabra could be?

51:36 Well, I certainly wouldn't want to second-guess his expertise. He's very knowledgeable in a number of areas true but you know, I also have to say that there's almost an anthropomorphic line of thinking that humans tended to do and that of course anthropomorphic means that we tend to Shift our experience as human beings on to You know other theoretical, shall we say life forms. So you know the notion that a race of intelligent beings from another place wherever you want to say they're from another dimension planet galaxy whatever but they would follow a similar pattern as us in terms of having hunting dogs I'm not sure that's

52:23 You know, I just feel that that's slightly over overthinking the situation you know way my own personal view is that we can't even begin to imagine or Speculate about what other intelligence is what they do how they behave with technologies. They possess and so forth So I prefer to be a little bit more conservative in terms of that but it should be pointed out that these so-called chupacabra which are It's kind of a broad term now that is associated with a lot of different things that are going on in the Americas. there were many, many sightings of UFOs that were reported in the areas where these livestock killings were taking place. So in that sense there at least appears to be an extraterrestrial connection between some of the Chupacabra cases so I certainly don't think you can rule that out but I think referring to them as hunting dogs strikes me perhaps a little bit anthropomorphic. Yeah yeah

53:25 Agree with you. I loved hearing about that because I mean there's got to be some kind of explanation But I was like wow, that's it's what I haven't heard and you know being in this field when you hear one You haven't heard lights go off. You know, it's exciting No, no, it's appreciate you sure though And again, I don't want a question his expertise because certainly seems very knowledgeable but You know would beings that were able to travel from other dimensions or other galaxies would they need hunting dogs? I mean Good point, good point. But you know this is sort of an unrelated thing but before we call it in I wanted to ask you about your travels because you mentioned in the book that you've gotten to visit Peru and Machu Picchu And the Galapagos Islands when you were a kid and those are areas that I'd like to visit more than probably any other on The planet so how was it just? You know I'm sure you didn't see any cryptids but was it great to get to see some of those places

54:20 I had an unbelievable upbringing and that led me down the path to where Iím at now. My mother was a travel agent, she was very adventurous and wanted to take me to all these exotic locations around the world. I'm not necessarily a spiritual person per se, but when you're in that environment up in these lofty Andes mountains and these great ruins it does have a very cosmic and spiritual aura. When you think about this incredible civilization the Incas and the wonderful

55:01 things that they were able to achieve so long ago. I mean it really makes you wonder how they got this, the inspiration not only to build these magnificent ruins but also some of the other technologies. They were actually doing brain surgery like that! It's pretty remarkable and as a naturalist the Galapagos Islands was an unbelievable experience too not only because what it means Or what it meant to Darwin and the formulation of his theory of evolution. But I will share one anecdotal thing, I've never seen a cryptid with my own eyes but I have seen some pretty remarkable animals in the wild and while in the Galapagos Islands…

55:50 kind of wandering around as a young boy on this one island and um, this giant elephant male elephant seal surfaced in this in this freshwater pool right next to me. And I mean this thing was literally as big as a car if not bigger! I think they get to be like almost 20 feet long and it came out of the water right next to me and bellowed at me in this thunderous voice and both terrifying and also quite exhilarating at the same time to have that type of encounter with something so remarkable. Also, on that same trip we camped along the Amazon, so that was pretty

56:28 Pretty amazing as well. Wow, yeah man I would love to do that sometime I hear a lot of people telling stories that it seems dangerous just to be there because the jungle is so full of Dangerous insects and bugs and jaguars and all kinds of wild stuff And so you are taking a little bit of a risk just being there cuz the unplanned for can happen But yeah It seems like I mean You know, we're here today so obviously we've done it for thousands and thousands of years but it sounds a little bit scary. A little bit outside my comfort zone. Well Greg you really haven't I don't think you really lived life to the fullest until you put your

57:06 put yourself out there and I think life really is about taking risks and chances, sometimes living a little bit dangerously. It's all about the opportunity and then there's also the financial aspect of not cheap to travel to some of these exotic locations so But I would encourage anyone out there listening to really any opportunity you have to travel and explore the world. Life is short, and there are so many wonderful places out there that just seeing them firsthand is something that you would never regret. Well said man! As soon as I have a couple thousand to burn Peru will be probably at the top of my list

57:46 But very cool, Ken. I loved having you here! Always down to hear about some weird stuff going on and weird creatures and ones with wings are all that much more fascinating Would you like to tell the people about anything else you got going on or maybe your website before we go? Well, I have a couple of television appearances that are going to be occurring later this year. One of them pertains to the Mexican Chupacabra who you mentioned earlier. I don't really have exact details as far as air dates or channels or anything so hopefully people that are interested in this subject matter will just kind of keep their eyes open but if they want to follow my research and updates as far when these things are taking place

58:26 I do have a website, it's Ken Gerhardt.com K-E-N G-E-R H-A-R D. I also have a Facebook fan page and those are probably the best places to go if you want to find out about what is going on in my world and I would also encourage anyone out there that is interested in flying cryptids to check out my books as you mentioned Encounters of Flying Humanoids Available online at most major book retailers also available at Barnes & Noble locations And my first book Big Bird Modern Sightings of Flying Monsters is also available and a fascinating read Awesome, man. Well thanks again Ken it has been a blast you take care yourself out there all right You too Greg great interview I had a wonderful time and hopefully we can do it again real soon Thanks, man Of course Take care

59:23 It seems so in your eyes. It's just that work has been getting to me I heard about your boss He's not feeling well but he's alright There is something i can do Thanks for offering, but ill be fine Everyone wants to feel safe In the dark Everyone wants to feel safe In the dark Have you been up late nights? Couldn't fall asleep I see it in your eyes It's just the sickness hasn't gotten to me But what about your bowel? Can you help or can you make the time? I'll do all i can do Just a word Everyone wants To feel safe In The Dark Everyone wants To feel safe In The Dark Forces unseen Pulling strings In Your heart

1:00:36 Who wants to feel safe in the dark? What were you guys then? We're up north just trying to beat the heat When are you coming home? Not sure I can make it back for weeks So how are all your shows? Kelly called and said, You're not alright. You take care of you There's something bigger going on this time

1:01:33 Everyone wants to feel safe in the dark Forces unseen pulling strings in your heart Everyone wants to feel safe in the dark Good night all my children now you must lay down your heads

1:03:42 You wouldn't want the sun to catch you missing from your beds I wish that we could stay here, I wish with all my heart But to the earth we've been committed and now we must depart Goodnight