Peter Mark Adams | Game of Saturn: The Sola-Busca Tarot, Bloodlines, & The Demiurge Deal

00:05 This puppet master's almost surely have a There's clearly maybe something there And until you've thoroughly tested every last close justin Think you know the less you really do That's true, Dr. Seuss Edward without T.H.C. Cause we know they're lying to us Just don't look without T.H.C The higher side chat show on wood Company

00:44 Alright, Hiresight Chatters. It's no secret that the conspiratorial crowd has made many claims about the Capstone Cabal and the ruling elite class of past and present. Claims that range from a fascination with occult arts securing power through magic and making dark packs with demonic multidimensional entities to selective breeding carefully preserving bloodlines and even that these psychopathic power players have some type of reptilian origin that might make them only half-human And as we know, it's very hard to find the smoking gun for these sorts of claims and we're left with the analysis of small breadcrumbs strange symbolism and the occasional promotion of ideas and motifs that seem completely foreign to anything we would recognize in the mainstream.

01:23 Well folks, it seems like a 15th century relic known as the Sola Bouschka Taracii has broken free of its carefully maintained chain of custody behind the curtain as an aristocrat class magical heirloom to find itself on display in a Milan museum in modern times. And wouldn't you know? It contains aspects of nearly all those oh-so strange conspiratorial claims! Lucky for us though that royal worldview is carefully kept close at the chest and putting such a relic in its proper context seems like a monumental task Today's guest Peter Mark Adams is a brilliant esoteric scholar, tarot expert, professional energy worker and occult symbol decoder that seriously dedicated himself to unpacking this deeply esoteric artifact fully drenched in the demiurge and has released his analysis and conclusions in an epic and beautiful book titled The Game of Saturn.

02:08 It's one of the most impressive pieces of work that I've seen in some time, the implications are damn near unbelievable and i can't wait to get down to it. A serious honor and a pleasure, a master of his craft Peter Mark Adams welcome to The Higher Side Hi there Greg, lovely to talk to you. Yeah man I'm so happy to have here Scarlet Imprint always seems to work with amazing authors and i'm really impressed with this book something that yeah it is something I don't think I could put together if my life depended on it you know so really kudos to you Thank you so much. And, you know to kick this off we really have to break this down for people but we're talking about an elaborately illustrated and decorated deck of cards that matches the structure of a classic tarot deck dating back to the Italian Renaissance I guess it's the oldest known deck if its type in existence but you call it a Tarocci because outside of that same basic structure doesn't really have much else in common with traditional taro is that right?

03:04 That's right there is about three cards in the deck that have a kind of passing similarity to. The card you'd expect amongst the trumps in the modern day but apart from that everything else is utterly unique and it was that fact actually which really got me turned on to be task of trying to figure out why they gone to such extraordinary cost investment of time, You survey renaissance master and graver. I get the thing didn't make any sense so this is something going on here which i couldn't figure out. And that really let me down the rabbit hole to be honest i started to disappear from day-to-day living as i got in grossed in this thing you know yeah and eventually i was working like sixteen hours a day seven days a week it took me about three years too break into the decks heavily coded

04:06 multi-layered symbolism. That's so provocative and the artwork on the cards they depict everything from fairly innocent looking figures to decapitation and holding babies over fire pits yeah but I guess what about the artwork is so special not only from a content perspective but a historical one as well? Yeah, this is the first it's the earliest complete tarot deck that exists that's one thing Secondly it's been done by this renaissance master engraver so the quality is absolutely superb. I know stu factors alone set the deck apart from pretty well everything else the third factor though,

04:49 It has no Christian imagery or symbolism in it whatsoever. And that is really exceptional, I mean, I can't think of another tarot deck in existence that doesn't include certain aspects of the Christian theology. Right! I found that strange as well because I'm a little bit familiar with the Tarot and there's always that final judgment card at least which is a very Christian thing. That's it and there is nothing like that in this deck again that was another of the factors the drove me to try and figure out what the heck is going on with this thing. There's a nother factor as well greg which is really strange this desk despite being a masterpiece of renaissance art has no provenance whatsoever,

05:38 I'm like provenance is everything in the arcade where did it come from. Where did it originate who was whose hands of being there because this is a deck of cards that survived and tackle five hundred years, nobody knows where its been for at least three hundred of those she said. So there's a lot of mysteries there is a lot of locked boxes and it's like wet dream for the research you know i can't claim to have cracked the whole thing i think i got most of the trump cards. Decoded but this is substantial number of suit cards that still require work,

06:26 There's more to come. Always, and so you know the main purpose of a typical tarot is divination but is there an indication that that is not the same purpose here or is this just a different form of divination? I think people have always used different Things around them for different purposes you know whether it's. Coffee grounds or what the original text were created for gaming that's where the tarot came from but of course because of the imagery because of its symbolic nature it lends itself to other uses specifically to divination

07:06 I think that's if i'm going to like jump to the core of the thing what we're faced with here is something like an elite grimoire. Off surgical draconian magic okay if i just like sum up the end point of my research and the question therefore is where did it come from how was it used What was the intent of the designer in putting this thing together because it illuminates. An aspect of the modern conspiracy world is this notion of a cult of saturn yes, it eliminates the origins of this thing which before now has been very nebulous

07:53 Right, and it is such an amazing piece of history. An amazing artifact for that reason! And I guess I would also ask you because you're not the first person to look at this deck What can you tell us about some of the theories about the deck? Why it was created before you came along? The things that you dismiss Well, the obvious thing is that nine of the trump cards depict figures connected with Roman Republican History So it's easy to dismiss the whole deck as an educational day but that's an explanation just doesn't stand up. How about the other you know trump cards how about all the court cards and the you know, so card so you know the obvious explanation is too fast style to

08:42 Suggest that it's an educational deck also doesn't take account of the homoerotic elements in its imagery you know it's a christian stance and the fact that the trump cards that appear to name roman figures have been spelled in such a way That you cannot immediately identify any particular person. Okay the romans had a thing called the james it was like a family name and because of the roman elite, what's covered by very small number of families for a period of like five hundred years that james doesn't give u any indication of which member of the family

09:30 Within that five hundred years you know who it could be so again it doesn't actually fulfill an educational purpose on that score either. The other explanation is that its another wedding present a kind of some choice wedding present like the vishkanti sports deck but again the home erotic imagery the baby getting cooked over the fire scenes of emulation and decapitation That'd be some wedding present, right? That's good. Instead you wouldn't be invited back. True. So they're the main lines that have been

10:10 Attempted to explain the imagery in this deck and they don't really work So there has to be a deeper game going on and another foundational thing that we should probably discuss with people or discuss for people is that There's also something that should be said about the historical context like not only the politics of the time But the attitudes about magical ritual in practice. This kind of speaks to those homoerotic elements you mentioned but what do you think it's important for people to know in that regard to To place this back in its proper context of when it was actually made. Okay, I mean if we're going to turn the clock back to 15th century Renaissance Europe and specifically to Italy magic in one form or other was pervasive at every level of society

10:57 From the kind of folk healing, folk witchcraft and Carlo Ginsberg has done excellent work in documenting some of the long lived pagan witchcraft movements in Italy. Bernadette in the north of italy we have the possession cult of tarantissimo in south of italy and on top of this you have a layer off what i would call grimoire magic So that you find clerical scholars students monks priests specializing in ritual magic for hire. Okay so if you have any problems should go to them and they know that you need a demon exercising or you wanna someone the demon and send it against someone like use of attack sorcery,

11:48 These would be the go to people for that and we have excellent testimony from the inquisitorial records for madonna. Which demonstrate that these priests, the ones who are recognized as wielding a lot of power in terms of demonic magic where very carefully protected by the elite Their major sponsors were the elite families in fact and whenever an inquisitor attempted to take one to court, have them defrocked or whatever they could do against them. The elite families always stepped in and put the case aside so that there are well protected at the highest levels of the Renaissance society. So that's pretty well the pyramid as it were, the background

12:40 into which this death, which actually illustrates another strand and stream of magic coming from the East, entered into and merged with. Yes that background makes it all the more provocative and when it comes to the Dex influences and the worldview and ideas that it seems to contain you kind of break it down into three parts because it can get pretty complex but you talk about the Dex cosmology its metaphysics and its ritual use and I think that's a pretty clear way to talk about such a dense item what would you say about its cosmology for example?

13:16 It's holy malefic and it identifies a series of planets fix stars and constellations that are the most malefic in terms of astral magic. And it was this fact that gave me the first indication that what i was dealing with, Was a grimoire of elite sorcery of the darkest kind right. Okay so that's the cosmology that we have here. The items you know you find them in picket tracks or any of those classic texts, how vast magic but the ones particularly picked out and illustrated within the deck are holy malefic

14:00 So I can't conceive of another use of those energies other than what they call maleficium, attack sorcery. It's pretty cut and dry when it comes to the things they were trying to invoke. It's just negativity across-the-board it seems. I think when we look at these elite families you know we need to realize that they were not like a modern state they didn't function in that way, there are far closer to the godfather of the film be back here. They had their beneficial side but they were capable of any kind of cruelty

14:44 What evil these were the families from which macchiavelli drew the principles of governing. Just by observing them so on the one side they would have dynastic marriages they would have no agreements treaties and so on but i'm not decide to flip side of the coin is there employment a poisonous you know sorceress assassin's spies You know, there's like two sides to the coin and this deck illustrates. This is why it's such a rare artifact A very dark side of the dark side of the coin But I want to qualify that and it's something probably we'll unpack as we go along Gregg Is to say that what this deck is exemplifying is not the traditional grimoire sorcery Okay

15:39 Like the sorceress these guys this elite employed had copies of like the key of solomon and i'll be down and those kind of text classic. What is your name this stuff is over an order above that, In terms of education background is tradition and it's almost never been talked about in the context of the western history before because it comes straight from the byzantine elite wow. Okay another thread not being taught about as far as i can see has not been identified as a major player amongst the elites of europe for,

16:21 This deck is depicting a tradition which goes from Orphism through the Neoplatonists into the Byzantine imperial elite and from them to Italy. It is no small thing! Yeah, dealing with an order of learned sorcery far above the popular grimoires And so to talk a little bit about kind of how they view reality's structure, you talk about how their view the view that's expressed in this deck is that souls are reincarnated and kind of the symbol of the X is where they see the Milky Way crossing with the path of the Zodiac. And that's the portal between the worlds. This is a type of worldview or cosmology that definitely wasn't taught to the masses it seems

17:12 Yeah this emerges directly from orphism so we're back in the eighth century bc at least. Add it's been picked up through figures like ferocities pythagoras is teacher play to of course and the neoplatonic philosophers after. So there's a continuous tradition there until i'd like the sixth century cd So it's like 1200 years old tradition at this point. And then there is an attempt by the Christian emperor Justinian to stamp this out, not very successful because the Byzantine elite and especially its civil service were thoroughly imbued with the values of Hellenism To enter the civil service you had to have a relevant number of year study of Hellenistic classical literature and philosophy

18:06 And with that, it's kind of in the kernel of it is paganism. You can't extract it out of it if you're studying Plato, you have paganism built-in so to speak. So it perpetuated itself well into the 15th century and you have major figures in the Byzantine court at this time, the imperial elite who are self declared pagans You know, and again this doesn't quite fit in with our church written history of the times but nevertheless that's how things fell out.

18:45 Right. And you talk about a Mithraic cult, which is something that I've had researchers dig up before and they some suggest it's a thread that still continues in the background today but to have these nods to a Mithraic cult at this time depth it is strange! Just what you're saying this cult and these ideas should have been long gone by the 15th century Yeah well i am they have a huge revival in the tenth and eleventh century with people like michael psalms, who recovered much of the literature but again our history lets us down because you know we see people figures like michael to sell this to recover the cal day and oracles. I stand alone we don't see them in context

19:33 Michael cell is had teachers who in order to this interest in these ancient texts and ideas and they have teachers you know the golden thread runs back and forth back into the past and forward, into contemporary history it's never broken and i think there's one good reason why that's the case. The world view that exists at the core of this system Make sense in a way in which doctor and theology does not make sense. It is an easy terry experiential approach to reality so that those of us who for instance work with energy you do regression were constellation where whatever the notion of reincarnation is very real one

20:26 You experience people who recover past life information so. No you don't need a theological judgment about it becomes part of your experience and the belief system coming out of office is rooted in real experience in this way its liberating because it has this many lives aspect to it, And it places the owners on your own moral development rather than obeying some of these rules. Okay so there's a dynamic elements at the core of the belief system that perpetuates itself from year to year from century to century and even if it was lost it would be recovered or recoverable right

21:11 Because that's the way things are, you know. Okay? Yes and you know these ideas you're talking about now very Gnostic and in regards to the deck as a Gnostic piece You say in categorizing the decks cosmology as Gnostic We need to take care not to confuse this fact with historically documented Gnostic preoccupation with spiritual liberation Nothing could be further from the worldview of the nobles who designed this deck Yeah And obviously that's an important separation I guess, what other aspects of Gnosticism do actually make it into the deck? Everything is there except this view that you should somehow clamber out of the cycle of metapsychosis and ascend to a higher plane. That is totally absent. This deck takes Gnosticism and converts it into a mechanism or let's put it this way

22:09 This deck has a not stick artifact and bodies the idea that if the machinery of the universe runs in such a way that subsequent lives. Arise out of the way you worship where u treat deities in this life then you can start affecting the trajectory of your subsequent reincarnation ok right So this idea is taken directly out of playtos faders. Where in the day it is you worshiping this life u went to that train and you want to their entourage upon death, i travel with them and then you can re enter ok now the key here is to re enter into a social circle dad is suitable for your objectives. And for these elite families the objective is to re enter

23:04 An elite family. Okay so in this way the ritual suggested within the deck is a way of controlling the trajectory of one's own meta psychosis and this is where the notion of bloodlines takes on, a new and deeper meaning absolutely that's so interesting because it's like we always see the elite as into playing the long game and these multi-generational mindsets. And mainstream culture looks at that and says, well that makes no sense you know people only live to be 70 80 years old they're not worried about what's going on for a 200 year game plan but this context makes that seem plausible it justifies why that worldview would exist among the elite

23:48 Yeah and if you look at the graphic record around the world you find plenty of places where this is the way things are managed. They take a lot occur with death ritual to try and ensure that subsequent rebirth about let's call it soul, back into the family group or into the community or whatever i am it kind of reaches high point with the butler slum as who of course attempt Multiple subsequent rebirths into equally spiritual positions on monasteries they have a mechanism for running that process and then validating that is working. So it's actually the western east of terry x system this kind of lacking but clearly at an elite level awareness of it was still there,

24:38 It is amazing. This is like exhibit A for the case that I've heard people trying to make for such a long time without having any real evidence or proof, this is no small thing and I guess we should address dead on why it's called The Game of Saturn? The figure of Saturn pervades this deck at every level I've got a quote here, it's by Proclus in his Platonic Theology. He says all Greek theology is the offspring of Orphic mystical doctrine and if you look at the Orphic theogony it starts out with Kronos, the great serpent gives birth to an egg and from the egg it splits apart to create the land and the sky and within it is the figure of Phenes

25:29 Wound around by a large serpent so this is a very early. Component that's situation chronos at the most fundamental point of creation and chronos is saturn right, add for the carthaginians he was ball how long added the bible appears as mallock Okay these are all the same entity but different aspects of it so. What is roots in the office tradition chronos becomes the central player he is the demi urge use to create a rent to sell the serpentine or draconian form, of the day the is the primal one ok that's why the game of saturn and then multiple cards within the deck kind of replay this this theme

26:24 Of the serpent as saturn as the serpent as ball how long. You know it so whoever put this thing together had a very good grasp of mythology and the giant cosmology of various faiths, That is so true. And along this line, to quote you again you say the Dex theology embraces Gnostic cosmology in its totality but nevertheless discards liberation in favor of the positive embrace of the Demiurges worldly rulership Is this just say that there's a mindset within the 15th century elite that says hey Demiurge I know you're the boss we figured this out So how can I get on your good side? How can we work out a deal? I couldn't put it better myself Greg

27:10 That's it. You got it! Wow. It seems so in line with conspiratorial suggestions today that the elite have made a deal with the Demiurge to basically be the management class on the earthly plane, to opt out of the rebirth cycle and stay in these positions maintain these bloodlines and then exchange vast amounts of material wealth and power I guess that's a worldview that is pretty aligned with this 15 century elite heirloom and its chain of custody I guess Yes the horrible realization is not that those conspiracy theories have their roots in a real tradition. You know that's the bottom line with this reading of the deck this interpretation of the day it's horribly real.

28:00 Right. And that's kind of like what I just think is so provocative about it and you write about how they had this worldview that each person or soul coordinates with a star in the sky, and the deck contains references to a star kaput angle? I guess is how it's something I've heard. Yeah, that's a star I've never really hear talked about what do we know about this stars attributed characteristics What are the references to this star mean to you It's the most malefic star In the sky bar non so if you wanna do that have a kind of sorcery imaginable this is definitely one of the ingredients the energies of this particular star. That's why it's there that's why its kinda highlighted in the deck its part of a brew

28:53 A dark brew. And because it's a fixed star, whatever malefic intention you have its energy will tend to fix it in place and prolong its activity And that's why the fixed stars are important for that and a malefic fixed star kind of has the double action of adding to the dark brew whilst maintaining its pervasiveness, its influence, it effect on people. But I wanted – perhaps it's just worthwhile contextualizing what we set up to now Greg because

29:35 Add the graphic work has identified and opened out of phenomenal dark shaman ism i'm pretty years now. People especially in the west to be looking towards shamanism as this liberating force, You know is ecologically conscious and all these good things i'm with kind of neglected the fact that there's a complimentary shamanism which is correctly, characterize this dark shamanism add those who wanna follow this up does an excellent collection of academic essays called in darkness and secrecy by white head and right. Add it very much concentrate on doc shamanism within the amazon area

30:18 But the core of this is assault sorcery and a kind of cosmological construct we can perhaps best describe as a cosmology of predation. And at the core of this is that these shaman opens themselves to possession by the most powerful, predatory entity that they can summon Add in that form they either can go out of body to reach havoc or they can command lesser entities to do the bidding. So this is a core ethnographic construct now, strange thing is that when we look at the card specifically one card called it payout shows among with dragon wings okay and within the sequence of ritual cards within the deck

31:12 You see a series that are intended to induce possession by draconian entity. Add that card it payout actually depicts the monk totally possessed by the nc, so when does different grades of possession of course you know you can have. Hold variety but complete possession means the total displacement of the persona the person will have no memory whatsoever post What they've done of what happened the possession is complete okay so in the context that dark shamanism we're seeing a. Graphically attested process whereby doc shaman open themselves to position by these predatory entities and then use that power service speak to recap it whatever kind,

32:08 They intend to do so that construct perfectly fits the imagery that we're dealing with and the kind of uses that this renaissance elite would have. Yes it's quite amazing and you know there is a lot of people even today we hear little nuggets of wisdom dropped by those who have kind of touch the fringes of elite circles or worked in certain industries like banking or politics at high levels and they come out and say, You know these people are possessed and you're like, you know. You don't think of that literally but that's a term that is thrown around quite often when describing the way these people act and the way it feels to be around them. Exactly! And this is now if we can only start connecting our ethnographic and historical information to the current situation we can begin to illuminate some of these things for the first time

33:07 They start to make sense when you contextualize them but you gotta get the right background in place in order to do that. Absolutely. And, you know another element of that background is you say that the D'Este worldview entirely explains the magically oriented motivations of the deck's design and use and D'Este is a name that comes up a lot in your book I don't hear it all that often outside of your book but tell us about that family and their connection to this deck Yeah they kind of a marriage out of obscurity in the you know tenth century or so. I am this various branches of this family and your right there obscure i certainly didn't have any particular awareness of them when i started this project but fake, initially they came to be the rulers are off the city state of ferrara. And we're closely allied with venice it's within that context that the deck was designed to create it

34:11 Now it turns out that the Italian branch is a cadet branch of the larger family in the Austro-Hungarian area, the Guelfeste. And the other cadet branch of this family are the Hanoverian monarchs. So let me put this in an historical context I think something like 17th century Marie de Este of Medena married the Duke of York When he send it to the throne of england she became queen of england okay and it was a short lived monarchy but then, there is an interregnum and then the hannoverian monarchs took over and this is george the first second third all these people now what talking about arc of history which leads from supremacy in the renaissance for about three hundred years.

35:13 I'm then kind of switches saddles okay just in time to catch the rise of the british empire. Add at the end of that the tail end of that catches the start off us a. Right and so the implication there is that there's maybe a network working within groups It doesn't have the same allegiances as we might think and you know when one Empire declines in another rises some of these Figures or what? We might call the Brotherhood of Saturn. They seem to emerge in these new empires as well as the collapsing ones yeah, so

35:52 You have to put all the points of view together you have to pile them all together to make sense of these kind of patterns because they historically there so long lived. Add this takes us right back to byzantium again where is pagan philosopher who introduce these ideas to italy had a pagan school Which taught thirty which tort ritual magic i was completely a pagan entity. So what i'm saying is there's a tradition of a rich will practice that was invented god knows when, who's alive and well in fifteen century by zantium addis now captured within these cards and carried forward again how come we have these cards where have they been for three hundred years

36:48 is a mystery. But they surface now, we kind of open them out now and this is the story they're telling us. It's amazing and that is one of my questions for you is what other insights can we get from tracing that chain of custody? I mean I know we know the early steps and we obviously know where it ended up in Milan but are there other nodes or bullet points on that chain of custody that you find curious or interesting I'm really at a loss to fill in the gaps it's completely conjectural. Add this like three hundred years where the deck is just invisible i mean just disappears, based on certain marks i mean that was great right and then they printed the sheets and then one set of sheets were painted and delivered to person called marin sonudo information patrician add

37:48 Curious thing about the marks that were placed on the deck is that identifies him it identifies the fact that he was gay. I need identify as a fact that almost certainly the ferries where able to manipulate and support him into betraying venice so that the debt is like a payoff, In a very important operation that farra ran against venice and it's also reminded to him that at any time if he opens his mouth or stops cooperating they got enough on him to see him burn up the state.

38:28 So does that level of historical interpretation now again marinson who was he who were his mother's family the venue a family. Add the veneers claim to be descendants of the emperor valerian okay and then you check out the emperor valerian it turns out is one of the child sacrificing empress of late role nice he was notorious for it yeah i'm not brings you a back again to the card in the deck showing the child over the fire alarm what the heck is going on here. There's a disturbing aspect to this and in respect of the fact that all of the court cards the name to court cards nine of them,

39:12 All have one thing in common they to pick. Figures related to the conception of alexander the great not do anything alexander the great actually did you know which is what most people are interested but his conception, i want you looking into the alexander romance literature there's one characteristic about his conception that stands out Is mothers intercourse with ball how long so that alexander is like a demigod and again this is one of the connections that deeply woven into the texture of the decks imagery and symbolism. No connects saturn chronos, draconian force and the carthaginians got all home on news known for one thing or one thing alone

40:04 This is the sacrifice of small children. Mulk, it was called and it's from that word mulk that we get the name moloch in the Bible. Wow! So we have these blind spots in The Chain Of Custody of The Deck can you maybe tell us how it got out of private hands and into the public sphere? Into a museum? Well let me just kind of touch on whatever I do know which is very little so it won't take long Marissa new died in venice in the early sixteen century and all his effects were auctioned at that point now. There's a jump of like two three hundred years to a milanese family the marquesa serb alone.

40:49 As far as i can tell there's only one connection between the server lenny and venice of the sixteen century. It was one of the early members of serb family two brothers in fact what became pope the other became a notorious break and then, got promoted as a hitman for francesco sports so you know he was playing his trade and obviously got into trouble and have to escape I need to document it in various parts of europe you know no doubt further enhancing his skill set and some point in the course of that he got special recognition. From venice for services rendered with i don't wanna speculate what they may have been but it kind of a noble him,

41:39 So that's the one connection. He would have been in Venice about the time that the deck came on the market, it was auctioned and I'll say the next thing is the deck turns up in the hands of the Marquise Cerbaloni dated about 1830. There's an antiquarian Count Chicanara who examined the cards at that point saying they were in the hands of the Marquis Cerbaloni Rolling forward from that point a set of these cards were sent photographic images of the cars was sent to the british museum in nineteen oh, nine i think i'm put on display there where pamela colman smith the designer of the popular weight smith tarot deck would have seen them.

42:29 And it's aspects of their imagery which you now find in pretty well every tarot deck in the world today. So kind of unconsciously propagated the imagery of Solibusca into pretty well everybody's taro deck. And that seems to be how magic works, right? I mean these influences, the power in them they seem to kind of spread out kind of spider web out even if it's not obvious on the surface that's kind of an interesting aspect I think again you know from an easter terry point of view we have to recognize that when we talk about these energies. How is that are the subject of a satanic work not many people talk about agency, in that context most of us thing of energy is like the light switch switches which it on switch it off yeah has rules it based on the rules but

43:24 In a sense these energies have agency there pretty well like you or me in many respects and that is the way in which. The energy behind the deck would've been interpreted in the fifteenth century. Okay it's not some background buzz of energy right its an agents work okay so and, That makes all the difference. If you start conceptualizing those energies working through history in terms of agency, then you have to rethink a lot of stuff. No doubt. Man! So just to follow up with the lineage of the cards – what's the end bookend for the path these cards have taken?

44:11 Okay so around nineteen eighty eight or so german austrian tarot list got permission to photograph the cars any made a reproduction deck. And then what two thousand nine or so the italian state stepped in, tell your ministry of culture stepped in and bought the entire deck i believe from the descendants of the family that is never stated i believe that's and they bought it for eight hundred thousand euro. Add dates now in the gallery in malayalam

44:51 It's held there. Our imagery in the book and as you know, the Scarlet Imprint are about to start shipping a reproduction of this deck. The imagery is being provided by the Breret Gallery to us To make the book and the deck. Okay, so that takes you right up to date It's just I love it man And just to find this evidence of a continuity of elite power and a consistency of occult beliefs among their ranks is Mind-blowing it's really like what a conspiracy Enthusiasts has been looking for for a long long time Yeah, I think you've got to get into the mindset not just of the elite but

45:33 but of what I call hardcore esotericism to get this stuff. Yes, and on that subject you mentioned Platonism a little bit everybody knows Plato by name but it's really interesting because you talk about his philosophy really does have kind of a linkage to empowering the elite or justifying the elites power and that thread isn't usually highlighted when you're discussing Plato in his philosophy but that might be why he is such a household name and why he's gonna been held in such high regard as because, as far as the elite are concerned. He provides a basis for

46:11 why they are at the top and we're at the bottom. Yeah, I think the whole way in which Plato's work has been handled or treated and certainly by educational institutions has varied enormously there is like you know before the church and after the church so in the ancient world Plato's teachings were from a very early date You know he has all these dialogues that must be what thirty forty dialogues people were coming up for ideal sequences in which to study these dialogues ok, but they always started with the same dialogue all combined now why is that. How can i deal with one thing only and not his alcohol by this is a very rich kid

47:02 who his parents have died, he doesn't actually have a clear sense of what's what. But he wants to make his mark on society and because of his wealth, he is going to enter the political process in Athens okay? So that's the scenario that Alcibiades' dialogue sets up for us In his discourse or his dialogue with Socrates, Socrates is attempting to say to him you're looking for self aggrandizement What about service okay so the whole theme of the platonic dialogue sick they touch on many things you know ethics theory of knowledge you name it. But ultimately its how can i delete governor society justly this is the core issue a platinum and in order to be able to,

47:54 Justly run a society you have to be entitled to do so you have to be totally selfless blah blah blah okay and part of that. Play those recommendations is the elite should sacrifice all wealth and power they shouldn't hold any property for instance no money they shouldn't inherit anything, I have to be solely dedicated to justice and part of becoming just is the become enlightened. In your person selfless and enlighten this is the platonic ideal for the elite now you can see how far away we are absolutely anywhere near that but that was the inspiration there in order to project that kind of

48:45 Justice forward through the generations play to elaborate at this system of meta psychosis and spiritual internal growth so that you know within the platonic tradition. Add this phrase the holy pappas manually the the aluminum ones people would actually seek to become a woman in the nature and therefore capable love, dealing justly out of their very essence. And because they don't have these family ties, this wealth, this property, they just do what's right." Okay? This was the platonic ideal

49:25 Now the esoteric aspects of that is that such an illumined elite would also have the highest connection with the deities and so on. So they would drive the process of subsequent meta psychosis, of rebirth if you like okay? So it become a self perpetuating mechanism Now somewhere along the line Greg, this idea of dropping wealth property and family ties and not having them to influence your justice got lost. I'd say so And i think it got lost very early in human history So we're living essentially with a dark platonism

50:09 It was not intended i mean as far as play those two masses concerned the demi is a day who is filled with light it's not a dark. Enter to your tall he looks towards the source you know everything play to call that the gorgeous like an impersonal refuge and source, add it is filled with the beauty of bad intern sand then creates after the matter off that now This is like fourth fifth century bc and then by the time we get to the first and second centuries p.c. and the first and second century c this demi urges now flipped over, he's become a dark entity ignorant entity that refuses to acknowledge the source of his own power and thinks that he is the ultimate

51:04 In terms of creativity everything is beholden to him and everything is owed to him. And this darkening of the figure up the demi irish as a historical fact which i don't think anyone has given an explanation. Yeah it's very curious it's absolutely central to the understanding of how things got flipped over, Because from this point on, you have the Gnostic cosmologies all identify a dark Demiurge and the need to liberate yourself from him. And therefore that gives rise to a Dark Gnosticism which is acknowledging the dark Demiurge and working with him. But this is a historical phenomenon it was certainly never like that in the original Platonic writing

51:57 I can say one thing though maybe this will help to contextualize it is that we can't just look at play the whole week and not just look at office you know there's a whole range of the audience. Like has got the opportunity in order for all the different gods add. Throughout the mediterranean basin have a lot of different creation stories okay so you get very mixed bowl of starting points Add the penny on the starting point you take u end up in a different place now. What are we so i'm so lead there key influence if i'm right it was it was george to mr better known as playtime and his conception was that he took classical greek or hellenistic theology,

52:51 He says there's absolute three entities, like a Zeus or Poseidon and he said Hercules. And beneath them you have a set of celestial deities and a set of Chthonic deities. The Chthonic deities are ruled by Saturn and they run the planet. They run this planet so his theology again is a little different from What play the originally set out but it does just towards the privacy of saturn in the world view. Okay and that's why i take place on a flight stepping off point, from ancient tradition into this what we call the modern world pre-modern world of the renaissance and that's why satan features so highly

53:44 Within subsequent modern history, I think Mm-hmm. Yeah it is It's so hard to get a real sense of why that polar opposite view would be taken on the Demiurge or just to say the creator of the material world like it's also just hard to wrap your head around because this is an entity that Today it's like we can't really see, we feel like we can't see it or we feel like we can't really get a handle on something that so outside of ourself but they seem to find some clues to kind of draw conclusions on her to build up personality profile back in the day and then for it did go the complete polar opposite way is just so curious. It is strange and

54:28 Again you know it's like the answers are not gonna be found in digging through these theogonies we have to think about our own specific situation. Now add what priorities we have a lot what we have to work on i think the issue is centrally a moral issues that were faced with today, So whether you accept the existence of a demiurge or not is kind of beside the point. The energies that people work on, or with in practice are much lower order so what we're faced with is far more localized issue it's my perspective

55:14 I see it as a interdimensional penetration of this reality by other realities and all the multitude multiple orders of being. Okay so in a sense the issue is far more complicated but its it's far less theoretical, so coming from background of energy healing you tend to get the extreme cases I mean it's like if you work in the accident emergency ward friday night okay saturday night your gonna see. Extreme cases and energy healing also brings you confront you with pretty extreme cases, and from that i draw the conclusion that we have a say this into penetration of multiple dimensions

56:05 Add the crossover on occasion of entities between these dimensions. The anchoring is the fact that our consciousness is in my perspective a field, you know it's not byproduct of your neural activity right it's a feel like I think it has a family contact the community and historical context, it's almost as though everything that seven thought or done coexist at the same time. And thats the way we experience consciousness when we work with it in energetic way i'm thinking in terms of constellation therapy of course you know you get complete strangers in the middle of the room you put them in

56:49 Some positions to represent family members even if the family members are dead gone a hundred years ago doesn't matter. Those people will start to manifest thoughts behavior and feelings of the people that representing, you know they know nothing about them so i mean i would recommend anyone go along to half a dozen sessions of constellation therapy and just try it out is gonna change your views of reality anything i don't wow So other cases where we have one on one healing you know we have people who deceased coming through to help in the healing process. Other times i've dealt with very very, very dangerous and difficult entities that seem to haunt people wow it's a very abusive relationship you know remember this film the entity

57:41 Yeah, there's some very dark stuff going on and there is some very bright stuff as well. You know the role of higher order beings is not. Fiction we take an account of in my experience in this conspiracy world. Very much focused on dark side which is there does no doubt about it. It's dangerous star but its not the whole story right and ability to cleanse and purify yourself from making connection with higher order being always an option. It's an option everyone and it brings extraordinary confidence and strength.

58:25 Yeah i mean it sounds so interesting and something i'd like to experience more an experiment with more and just seems like when you trace the evolution of ideas and things that have been projected into the culture it's like this most recent round of materialist science of atheism i mean this is like a deception that gets the culture even further away from. Not only the things you're talking about that just seem to be part of reality structure but even the elite belief systems that are hidden behind the curtain it's just another layer of separation and seems to be like one of the biggest deceptions of our time that any intelligent person would be a.

59:05 material atheist because that's the view that I kind of grew up with and adopted and then discarded after a crazy psychedelic trip that showed that wasn't true. But it just seems like a major deception to inject that type of worldview, because it's further and further away from the stuff we're talking about." Yeah as well just as an aside to that i think you have to be careful when you deal with a lot of conspiracy stuff it also tends to depressure sure so what actually closes down your awareness, take something away from you but still something from you okay so unless you're doing the compensatory work on the light side. I'm less engaged in serious meaningful work

59:47 You know like you do something in the community which is meaningful. Unless your taken a lot of care with what you eat and drink you're gonna get bored. You know that the strong dark currents can carry most people along right so you need to do a lot of recovery work on yourself and people around you i guess being very fortunate you know i have the opportunity to see some very light entities at work. Add that is encourage me to say these things to be honest, Sure, yeah. That's something we definitely don't hear about that often can you give us like an example or two of the light side of these entities?

1:00:28 I'll tell you one very straight story because it baffled me as well. This was about 20 years ago, and I dragged along to see this guy Tom Kenyon—I'd never heard of him—and he was apparently channeling these entities called the Hathors and my eyes were just rolled up! So i went along with this gang you know we're sitting there in the slides amphitheater. Tom's city on a chair down on the stage you know how to start singing well this guy has no ten octaves twist voice it is absolutely stunning beautiful and this was going on all of us sudden, i saw arraigned in front of him six beautiful white columns of light

1:01:17 And they were like glittering you know and these are five or six meters high i was just like wow it was like an overlay on reality that's strange thing, add these figures the columns just drifted out of the apron and up through the audience and disappeared. And late on in this, it's not a performance but whatever Tom Kenyon is doing with these entities. He apparently is getting advice and stuff. Somebody in the audience said well what do these Hathors look like? And Tom immediately says oh when they manifest he says you'll see them as tall white columns of light and that's exactly what I saw over there so

1:02:03 Why i was chosen to see these things i don't know how sensitive to energies but there they were. Yeah they work wow and the advice they gave me no i checked tom stuff every now and again it's all about ascension that's all about you know cleansing purifying the channels so on You know it's all good clean stuff is no doubt about it but if these higher order beings are indeed there and looks like to me as though they are then there some restrictions on what they can do. On this plane and i would suggest that each person moral or ethical behavior is the call for the limiting factor

1:02:47 Remember martin luther king said you know the. Projection of the universe is long but it bends towards justice and that's what i see in the constellation therapy that we do that, record disturbances in reality arise from some form of injustice and when u explicit that injustice when you correct it you harmonize the feels So there's an ongoing task that energy healers are embarked upon. On a personal on the community level we're trying to create that justice with trying to eradicate, cramps and squeezes everything within the fields of consciousness arising from injustice

1:03:37 And it's injustice seems to me the core characteristic of the elite. Agreed and such a noble goal that you're working with So this is the work Greg, you know You get on and you do the work and in doing that work you rise above fear and pessimism arising from the darkness Well said yeah you can only stare into the abyss so long without doing stuff on the other side. Yeah you're going to fall in if you look long enough Man, I just love this. I feel like i could do it all day but i gotta let you go sometime and i just really enjoyed the book and the conversation It's broken down quite well but it still requires so much historical context a lot of the players were pretty new to me So...it is just a great book that unlocks so many new threads and peaks behind the curtain during that era of the Italian Renaissance And i think there's just so much to see behind it Great work

1:04:37 You know before i let you go i did want to ask you because you are an energy worker and that's the expertise you have it did, that come into play at all when you were studying the deck when you put your hands on this thing we're talking about the energy of it i mean did you experience that first hand. Yeah number times i had a huge energy coming through grey i was like paralyzed for like four days there was so intense And none of the energy workers around me could help could move it you know what are them tried to know and then they almost painted they have to go out of the room is that intense so. I was aware that something was driving this on the way the clues came, tell me break this code sometimes really strange no right i mean i'm not a great classic scholar or something for god sakes i study philosophy ok university but didn't study ancient philosophy

1:05:32 Man we could afford me sometimes i just felt like i was being led by the nose you know, sure stick your face here look at this read that read this. Put two and two together okay let's move on list you know how is this was the results don't ask me why this is manifested at this time i dont know Yeah, like you mentioned before we really started recording that the story seems to want to be told at this particular moment. Absolutely it's and it is a big energy behind this fascinating so also as we're wrapping things up can your mind remind the people where to get the book were to check out your website any of the other work you're doing that people might want to follow-up on I'm sure they are very intrigued right now

1:06:21 The go to people are scarlet imprint who i worked with on this project and they've done a superb job in designing the book. I need a general rate of ship of this whole process been excellent pleasure to work with them so scarlet imprint dot com is the go to place. The deck of cards perfect reproduction for the first time in five hundred years with the imagery coming from the gallery itself it's just come online that star shipping ten days or so, Some of the work i've done on ritual on various aspects of entities is in the paranthropology journal. Superior review journal and put it on my academia dot edu page, so it's like free essays there some bits of the book some of the essays that were formative very forward if in writing a book are also up there

1:07:16 So you can read those for free. I think you just need a registration as for my personal website is a disaster i'm gonna have it rebuilt, how these things get out of date so im not going to recommend that for anyone at this point. Cool cool well your right scarlet imprint i mean an era of mass production they have preserved Add artisanship that you just don't see often anymore it's a beautiful thing it's great that you know you've written such amazing words and they were able to compliment that with a great,

1:07:52 book. So it's just awesome, man! Presentation is beautiful isn't it? It is so all around amazing stuff you've definitely contributed to our scholarly understanding of the occult beliefs of the elite and I salute you for it take care out there man thank you very much Greg has been a pleasure You got it Take care man Sweet, sweet stranger thanks people. Peter Mark Adams and the Game of Saturn What a great subject and whenever someone asks me if it's possible that the elite might have come from a reptilian bloodline of some kind or do I think the elite make deals with dark forces? I'm gonna say don't take my word for it Let's just see what the Italian Renaissance Elite had to say for themselves

1:08:39 It's provocative and granted you can't see the art on the cards in an audio show but you can always use the links in the show notes or just Google the deck. it is really one of my favorite types of episodes to do where we kind of examine something that can move the needle in terms of making a case for some far out positions, And really what is more far out than a deal with the Demiurge to bypass the reincarnation cycle and rule over man as the management class at this manifestation? Of course I can't say exactly why the deck was made, but given the context of the times it's clearly a very special piece and i love that Peter really let me run with this speculation. We pushed it today! But you know... That's what we do here

1:09:22 Peter though, what a knowledgeable guy. Great writer I just loved it to find this sort of physical evidence for a continuity To elite power and a consistency of occult beliefs among their ranks It's mind-blowing! I also think this one pairs really nicely with Chris Noll's last week two of my favorite shows lately for sure If you don't sign up for Plus now, I guess you just maybe never will because these are the shows that i'd be looking for. In the second half of today's we got deeper into the deck in several ways. We focused in on the trump cards and why they point to northern africa. We broke down the mysteries of the suit cards, the decks codes and multiple levels of encryption, the science of the hermunculus

1:10:06 Demonic fellatio! Cannot forget demonic fellatio. Also, the details of the cards that reference human sacrifice? What that's all about... How Troy was once referenced to as the realm of the serpent born Also the court cards and the emphasis on half reptilian origins for certain elite bloodlines, how to tell if you were pledged to a dark entity in a previous life. The idea of the elite pledging large groups of people to demons in mass rituals Dragons also just to ice the cake and the importance of positive polarity for good measure. Again, loved it! Can't thank Peter and Scarlet Emperor enough Also Gordon for having him on Rune Soup and filling me in on just how fascinating this study was

1:10:52 In other news, THC is doing another live show with Tinfoil Hat. This time I'm supposed to be doing stand-up so we'll see what I can come up with in a week's time with no prior experience and crippling anxiety but it is what it is! So remember remember the 8th of November at the La Jolla Comedy Store and this time I don't have to drive three hours back and forth to LA which is a beautiful thing We're gonna leave that to Sam Tripoli Ryan Davis and Eddie Bravo who will all be there I got one more episode of The Higher Side to get out to you before the end of October and it is more just a fun one. The original plan was run through a bunch paranormal stories with a guy who's been an author in that world for decades but as soon we got going, he noted that he was 11 when Roswell happened and also had an outa body experience

1:11:40 I actually just thought it was really interesting for me in a paranormal archive sort of sense to just hear the anecdotes and musings of a guy in his 80s who's lived and watched the Paranormal and Conspiratorial Wheelhouse for literally twice the length of my entire life. I also have a hell of a Halloween story to tell you on that episode myself, but i'm getting out of here. I'm still trying to convince the wife to be my handmaid for Halloween for anyone who's seen the show because I could just wear a suit which is nice and easy but I don't think she's a huge fan of The Implication I guess i understand, but I gotta keep making my case and learn how to write jokes. So I'll see you soon! Your move Saturnian Brotherhood billionaire bloodlines and demiurgic dealmakers... You're fucking through. No one knows what it's like To be the bad man To be the sad man Behind blue eyes And no one knows what its like To be hated

1:12:53 To be fated to telling only lies But my dreams, is empty As my conscience seems to be I have hour Only lonely since they exposed me On THC No one knows what it's like To feel these feelings Like I do And I blame you! No one bites back as hard on their anger None of my pain and woe can show through But my dreams aren't as empty

1:14:14 As my conscience seems to be I have hours always lonely They exposed me on THC But my dreams aren't that empty

1:15:20 As my conscience seems to be I have hours always lonely Since they exposed me on THC No one knows what it's like To be the bad man, to be the sad man Behind me