Mike Colomb | The Forgotten Power Of Private Membership Associations

00:00 These days, so many podcast hosts just riff through unprepared segments until they get to the next ad break for pills they know nothing about cheap razors and whatever else they can get a buck from. But The Hiresite Chats does it differently! We succeed or fail on the quality of content and your desire to hear more of it So you're about to hear another free first hour episode. It's here to prove the two-hour shows are worth subscribing for five shows a month for just $8

00:38 Members get a mobile friendly website, a decade of archives, a dedicated RSS feed for the best podcast apps and a lot deeper discussion that a single hour can allow for. Sponsor free with more for thee! Get a free seven day trial of THC Plus at TheHigherSideChats.com Enjoy In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation. I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chat

01:36 It's the end of the world as we know it, but I feel fine from sunny San Diego. I'm Greg Carlwood and no doubt the COVID years should have been a wake up call to all of us as to just how quickly things can change. Circulating photos of people dying in the streets, media-fueled mass panic, a complete lack of medical autonomy, hospital protocols and harsh practices that were decreed from the Medical Mountaintop. Forcing people to watch their elders die on Zoom or through a window, almost nationwide mask mandates in any public space, floor stickers to maintain a 6 foot distance, testing requirements

02:12 free-to-roam vaccine privileges, dumping sand in parks, roping off beaches and in the worst cases denying businesses a right to even open their doors. It was a wild time, and while many folks see it now as an overreaction they also see it as a thing of the past. But diving into the UN's Sustainable Development Goals shows that this was just a blip on the radar compared to what they have planned And the scary effectiveness and effortless ease to which they implemented some of the most restrictive policies in our lifetimes with a frightening degree of near-global compliance tells me that we need a plan next time and a little organization and networking can go a long way

02:51 Well folks, that is where today's guest Mike Collum comes in as he and his wife Vanessa used a lesser known but freely available business structure known as a private membership association to open a COVID policy and mandate free grocery store in Penn Valley California of all places during the coronavirus chaos called Renegade Ranch Provisions. And have been busy building a network and spreading the word of how powerful PMAs can be for almost any type of business or service that wants the autonomy to interact with their patrons as they see fit, the next time some capstone cabal wants to clamp down on how they have to do business. I'm certainly inspired so let's get into it fellow Californian good fight fighter freedom infrastructure teacher and PMA educator Mike welcome to The Higher Side

03:38 Thank you so much, Craig. That was awesome! Quite an introduction going there that's awesome thank you Yeah yeah I try man but this is good stuff This is really exciting another great example of how much one person or one couple can do if they have the stones and I think listeners are really gonna be surprised as to how simple and effective this solution can be There's just so many people out there talking about the problems non-stop And there's very little offered in the way of solutions. And that's why I thought this would be really exciting and different for people to start with the old cliche, talk to us about what a PMA is and how you discovered it? Oh yeah, so I'll start with how we discovered it first of all Vanessa and I were partners at a winery

04:29 And we have on our properties, it's just a couple miles away from the winery and we have a large warehouse on here. We were actually going to build a brewery and restaurant onsite And we went to the county and asked them, you know it's commercially zoned so we're really not asking this point. We're just telling them what were going to do? They said yeah no problem and I said our stipulation is that we wanted to keep our gravel. Were in a rural community or farming ranching community and I wanted to keep the gravel parking lot to keep in tune with that. I didn't want concrete everywhere as well And they said, yeah no problem. We have eight acres of commercial property here and we wanted to leave it as natural as possible so they said yeah no problem. So we dove into it hired an architect engineer spent about probably seven months, eight months designing it completely with landscape architect a whole bit everything tied in spend $100,000 on this by the way and then took our program back up at the county they said yes sorry just kidding we want you to pay

05:27 And that came in from one of our little communist, Bay Area plant communist neighbors that decided that he felt it would be too dusty with all the traffic we're going to have. So he went to them and complained about it and they said oh yeah, that's a good idea so they implemented on us. On top of that, they wanted us to take – They built probably 15 years ago, they put up a crosswalk and they builted a bike trail really cool for the community and served really well since then. But the crosswalk that they put in is in a bad spot. It's right on a turn, it was not very planned at all I mean, it was just ridiculous you look at road planning stuff and there's no way in the world They let you know a business or any kind of little community put in something like this That was that bad on an attorney have to have like 300 foot of clear view or whatever

06:13 So they wanted me to move that as part of the deal for them to allow me to have my business. I moved it and paid for it, by the way, and then put lights on it, and then reestablished the bike trail on my property going across about a quarter mile from our property. And we looked at the full cost... We talked to some people who looked at our engineering We're adding about a million and half onto our project for a brewery, so we scrapped it. We told them no you guys said we're not going to do this during this period. You know we were looking at the code and we can clearly read and state that there was nothing really there that was mandatory they had an out. We had an out in the code. They would say well we're not gonna do that I'm not gonna let you do that like that. It's like first of all how did we put somebody in a position

06:55 Where she can make a claim and say well i'm not gonna allow you to do that. First of all your power hungry and you have a perceived authority that is going way over your head first while you work for us, people in we got to point in our society today where They've changed from the people that are set up in place as our government employees and being not subservient by any means in their authority, but they work for us. government servants, right? And that's maybe a great word using the servant piece of it which they've elevated themselves now to where we're their servants. And that's a shame across the board and we see in every industry across the board throughout United States where they have this perceived authority and impose things on us over and over and over to make it a precedent so then all of sudden they believe that its law and thats there right to do that. So we said no

07:58 And my wife, Vanessa had been asking me for years for us to move out of California. And finally enough pressure from her over years and doing that this thing that we couldn't do in our building, we thought we couldn't do it. Had we known about PMA's a couple years before that or a year before that, we would have had the brewery up and running today. And sadly enough... Well happily enough I'm glad we did because other things were doing now with the building instead of a brewery in a restaurant. We actually started traveling around the country, and we ended up in South Dakota. And found this ranch that we loved and bought it on the spot. Came home put our ranch up for sale, and we're packing! We're moving out of here. It's like you've done with California and regulations and all the garbage and all the communists... You know everybody is like you drive around people I've seen by themselves not we'll have right somebody driving by themselves with a mask on

08:51 It's like, what are you protecting yourself from your own breath? It's pretty interesting that happens and people can actually think that it's good to do that. And sad! So we're a couple months into this packing and getting ready to move our house is listed and we've got some interest in it. Vanessa comes to me and says hey honey, we need to build the grocery store And I'm thinking, you know, grocery store South Dakota and that's not what she was thinking. She was thinking grocery store here on our ranch. And so I'm pretty confused at this point in time and structuring what we're going to do because that wasn't the direction where we were going. You know? We were leaving. Right. Yeah. And she came to me and said well we need to build a grocery store and we're gonna do this to help basically all the businesses that she'd been helping trying to stay open for all of COVID when they started shutting people down

09:37 And we want to help them, we want to have our own grocery store and supply food for us and our family and our friends. I said well that's great but were not going into the city or county getting any authority from them, were not gonna do that. She goes well that is easy to do there is a thing called private membership association. Then she starts telling me about this and was like why didn't you tell me about this before? Because I had no idea what it was and how it worked so They introduced me to the guy that actually does it and I studied it very, very hard for probably two or three weeks. I dove into it and spent 100 hours reading him all the information that he gave me on the phone with him and then researching online everything I could possibly find and then come up with a realization that we can build a private membership association as a grocery store here on our property so we dove into it in January became a PMA in January of 21

10:29 and then open our doors in March of 21. And it was an amazing hit, we did a couple videos on it with a couple different influencers put across and I was getting tons of emails every single week and phone calls just like crazy people interested in PMA's I was just helping them go and send them over to the guy that brought me in because I just wanted to see all these PMAs across the country, because powers are numbers. And the more people we have supporting what we're doing, the easier it is for us to support ourselves right? Everybody wants to have somebody else help them so when we open our doors of our PMA

11:11 We did a couple things, right? One of them was to be able to resold alcohol from our winery inside our grocery store. Before I did that, I had to make sure that I understood the law completely and the private laws completely and why we do that And we prayed about it and made the determination that, you know, hey. We're going to go ahead and sell our wine in here without a license by the way right? Without a license with no California ABC license and we're going to sell our wine in here. And we did it. We made that decision for a couple of reasons. The first strongest one was because we are PMA we don't need to have a license because we are operating at the prep

11:50 And the difference between private and public, I mean Supreme Court's come out and said there are two sets of laws. One for the public and one for the private. And there are completely! You can read through them and go through them to see how they put their opinion on it all that is very clear night-and-day difference. So we decided to do that. The second reason was to be able to educate our local authority right when i say authority our local government officials, namely the district attorney. And then ultimately I wanted to educate ABC alcohol beverage control for the state of California and in doing this with both these processes we put ourself into

12:30 on purpose to be able to take and show the rest of the world that, hey we can do this here you can do it there. And not only can you do with alcohol because it's not about the actual individual item whatever you're doing or service that you're providing is about the ability to do that in the private and what looks like no matter what the product is so that's what we decided to do that's what we did yeah we open the doors in March I'm in the Bay Area working. The second day that Vanessa had her store open, the county came in and they understand the county at this point time, Vanessa has been harassing them since the beginning of COVID. Thoroughly harassing them strongly with a big group of people and actually harassed the county health department official, the head guy enough with her crew and where the guy actually quit his job and moved out to

13:20 And that's what has to happen. We need to do that across the country, you know? These people that are commies they come into our nice little communities and start making changes and doing things that are not correct. Now we need to be able to get in there and we need to be able to protest them enough to where we pressure them enough for their leave And the left would call that bullying, right? But the things that they do to us isn't bullying. They're allowed to do that because it's what they think is right." Well this is what we think is right and we don't think that we should be under that type of control and that type of pressure and structure and that whole idea in their philosophy on what they want us to do which is wrong. We all see that today.

13:59 So they came in and harassed her. The lady was one of the health department officials, and then she brought it to court enforcement people because you know that we all know that the government is a corporation, is a business and doesn't make anything, doesn't produce any product or service. And what it does, and only way gets paid is to be able to extract money from us through fees and fines And that's what they do. So, they bring the code enforcement with them so they can push their way into our building and see if we had something that wasn't up to code they could fine us for and then also want to see what is there so they can charge us extra on our taxes right? Get a regular tax base. Then health departments are just there to shut you down because we didn't get a health permit. We didn't get a use permit. We got nothing at all! We didn't ask permission from the state or the county for anything that we did

14:46 So they brought in a cease and desist, and the lady walks to the front door there. And it's actually like a roll up that you go to. Vanessa saw her she goes over and she starts talking here and the lady goes well I need to talk to the owner. Vanessa looked at him and said well I'm the owner And she goes, I'm from Nevada County Health Department and I've got a cease and desist. You need to sign this and you need to close your doors." Vanessa kind of laughed at her for a little bit because yeah, I'm not signing that. It's like not going to do it. Lee says well you have to. She said no, I don't have to do anything! Then she told her that we are a private membership association explained how it operated why it operated basically said

15:23 you don't have any jurisdiction, your jurisdiction stops in the public and that's what she is. She is a public person to enforce public law and what happens when you enter into an LLC or corporation? A use permit, a county health department permit, any of those things are all contracts and when you enter those contracts, you need to obey by their rules and their laws and that's what they want to do. They wanna pull you into contract and then have under their authority and if you don't which we operate in private They don't have authority. They don't like that, most of them really don't understand it and then as soon as they bring you to their legal team they start researching it they understand that they don't have any authority and they don't like that so then they're going to start looking for other ways So at the end of day the lady harassed her a little bit Vanessa arrested back and then this is okay so I'm all been talking now in this private property And you need to leave or call the sheriff and having arrested him with that they left they've never been back

16:19 But what they did do is they went back and they went to the DA's office and said, hey these guys are selling alcohol in your store. And they don't have any license so the DAs actually sent it to ABC and ABC made a complaint then they send it to the DA now here's the audacity of our system at our county and not all counties are like that not all counties have bad district attorneys like ours So what he did was they sent me a letter that stated you need to appear in court on this date Now this is word for word. Don't bother asking why because we won't tell you." Can you believe that? Yeah, that's goofy! Don't bother asking why because we won't tell you so you want me to appear but you're not going to tell me why. That sounds like a pretty good due process to me right? Right! Unbelievable and just and that's all just their perceived authority in the things they think they get to do. So I knew what it was for and I set this up and I wanted this process to happen so I appeared in court

17:20 And the judge asked me a couple questions and I said, well you know i really don't know why I'm here. And he goes well it's right on the paper that you have and I go well I don't have one see that's what my point is. And I read him the letter, he looked at the bailiff and he looked at me and he looked back to the bailiff and he goes good take this down so he brought me the actual order of the thing that happens. And I read in front of him sitting there and we knew who was for us He goes, okay so do you have an attorney? I go well yeah and now we're finding out why i'm here. So now I don't have an attorney and I'm not going to get one. And he goes well did you want to represent yourself? Because I don't think that you guys have any authority on me for this right? You guys don't have a case there's nothing here! And he reads me this other thing it says basically understanding my rights without an attorney...he wants me to sign this document. I said I'm not signing anything by the way

18:13 And he says, well you have to sign it or I may not feel like I need to give you the authority to be able to cover yourself and provide your own counsel. And I said well that's fine, whatever you need to do and then he went into another piece of it, first of all maybe let me just take a determination and find out if I want to hire the attorney. He goes okay thats great. By the way Im outside on court steps because Vanessa and I don't wear masks And so he sent a bailiff back and forth with these papers that I was trying to sign. And it's like, no, no, no, not signing these. Then finally the fourth one he sends down is what's called an OR, Odomar Cognizance. Basically what that means is that I'm signed this letter that puts me under the authority of the court like I'm already guilty, then the court graciously lets me out of their control

18:59 And it's like, I'm sitting around the Zoom with him and I'm laughing at this one here. It was like, I'm not signing this. This is the worst one you give me as there is no way in the world that I am signing this. Then he goes, Mikey because I just need to make sure that you come back to the court for when we set up another time and I go, I came here and there was no due process so you guys asked me to come here. And I'm here and we talk about set up another date for me to come back. I'll be here." And he goes, oh okay that sounds great so we setup our date and then on the unrecognized so their first portion of things that you have to do is, you must obey a law. So now what happens when you go out on OR and you don't obey the law or follow these 10 items that they have on there? Then they arrest you. They can put a warrant out for you or drive them down the road at your speed and that's a law. They could arrest you and then you're guilty of that whole piece of it in your back and your authority. It's ridiculous." I read him the first piece about this so by the way Your Honor all be all the laws. He looked at me because he leans forward in his chair

19:56 And he looks up and he goes, Michael everybody should obey all the laws that are lawful. He actually said that. And it's like boy this guy actually understands what I'm doing and he gets it right? Yeah actually gets it and understands which is amazing. So right there I knew that you know I want this guy. You might not be on my side all the way but he's going to actually listen to what our case is and go from there right so we've been involved in that case now for about a year I think we got about another three or four months before we're out of it. We're going to slide right through it, no problem at all." What happened in this instance? The DA sent over the thing to the ABC and then the ABC, in order to send it back to the DA they had to come and do a sting on us so they actually ran a sting operation in our store. You know, we are not heroin or cocaine or crack dealers for sting operations because we are private membership association where selling bottles of wine to adults

20:51 But they're losing control and they don't like that. So, they come out and run this little thing on us. He comes in, Vanessa sees him – she has no idea who he is at this point in time – he pretends like he's moving to our community and then he wants to come look at our store so she explains how the private membership association works. And he takes it and buys a bottle of wine and signs our document, our membership application which is extremely rigid in what it does into the control of And he signs that, pays his membership fee and then he's on his way. He goes back to the ABC, takes the bottle of wine and puts it in evidence locker a couple weeks later. He comes back and does the same thing one more time with a different bottle of wine. So with this being done what is done is he signed a contract with us so in this document where reads

21:41 Here we go. And it's the membership application that everybody that I write a membership application for receives this document, right? And basically it's our protection and it's the things you have to do to protect yourself as a group from your members with your members and against the public so he signs this thing in basically him in a read item number 10 to you and then I'll explain what we're doing with this guy after we're done here So it basically says, I entered into this agreement of my own free will without any pressure or coercion. I affirm that I do not represent any local state or federal agency whose purpose is to regulate and or approve products or services for the care at any mission of enforcement entrapment or investigation

22:24 I have read and understand this document, and my questions have been answered to my full satisfaction. And I understand that I can withdraw from this agreement and terminate my membership of this association at any time." He came in, signed this document and bought the alcohol from us. He did everything he wasn't supposed to do it. I don't think his bonehead read the document because anybody who understands anything about law understands that with him doing what he did, I'm going to come after him. So what we're going to do is after we get out of court... And we've been actually talking about this. We were probably gonna do this before we get out of court and we're probably gonna do something with district attorney also so i'm gonna sue this guy here for three million dollars personally not just at office but him personally

23:03 I'm going to sue his boss personally and I'm gonna sue his office for $3 million each. I'm gonna sue my district attorney, the district attorney's assistant attorney and the office itself for all three million dollars each." What has to happen in my whole goal of this isn't to get a bunch of money. My goal is to show these people that You might have a government position, but you need to understand your perceived authority doesn't really operate in our world. And when you come at us unlawfully we're going to come back and we're gonna make it painful for you so not only I'm going to do this here i'm also probably going to go after all their bonds there's company in Southern California or lady in Southern California that put together a program where we can go after their bond and if they lose their bond they lose their job They cant work without a bond

23:50 And this needs to happen. We need precedences of this that are put across the country and we need trainings, and that's one of the portions of what we're doing with The Renegade Nation is these trainings these things that were doing in the things that are being done across the country are going to go on here and help people understand how easy it is to live inside a private world and the protections that we have so important. Hell of a story, man. I mean that really is a great case study for how a person can use this and you did it in California so if it works here it should work pretty much any state because this is the craziest state. Pretty much right? But yeah so a private membership association...it's pretty simple! It's just you have a business or service and anyone who is a customer signs the agreement to be part of a membership. It's really not super complex

24:39 It just seems to be something that we forgot about. And in terms of the history of private member associations, where have we seen them in use before COVID reminded us that we might need something like this? Yeah it's pretty crazy so the principles of the PMA is how we do the PMA and all our principles for the PMA protect us come out of the Constitution The Constitution's been attacked in the different areas that we pull our information to protect us and the PMA 78 times over time. The first time was in 1805, Madison versus Newbury and it went through the Supreme Court with their opinion what's positive basically on our constitutional God-given constitutional back because the Constitution doesn't give us rights right? God gave us rights. Our rights are protected from the boneheads in power

25:31 And we needed that because they knew those people would try and take and infringe on our rights. So, that's why the Constitution was written in 1805. Then we fast forward all the way to Prohibition. Coming out of Prohibition Texas, Oklahoma, Utah—I realize Utah later on down the road did this but Texas, Oklahoma coming out of prohibition They had a lot of dry counties. And in those dry counties, there were restaurants and bars and grocery stores and places that sold alcohol but now all the sudden can't sell alcohol because this county... Because of what happened in the event that happened at Prohibition they decided oh you know we should never sell alcohol here again anyway

26:09 So they made the dry counties and the people that own those different businesses said no, heck no. This is my livelihood so they went and developed private membership associations And if you think about it The simplicity of a private membership association is very much structured like an LLC or corporation Or sole proprietorship It allows you to put an entity in place It allows you to open up an EIN number so you can actually get bank accounts so you can operate your business So instructionally wise it becomes its own separate entity from you as a person and allows you to do those things. That's what they did, they went out and opened those entities up their PMAs and operated there

26:47 There are still PMAs operating today that have been operating for many, many years all across the country including I mentioned Utah. And there's private social clubs in Utah and alcohol buying clubs in Texas and Oklahoma all over the place. And I know a bar in Louisiana that has been there for 20 years operating just like them. Let me ask you this because my parents have told me about this one place they live before my time maybe I think it was Wichita Kansas, but they lived in a dry county and To go to the bar They had to buy their own bottle somewhere else bring it in and then the bar Stored it up on the shelf with their name on it So when they'd come in to drink socially all the bar really did is pour alcohol

27:31 from a privately owned bottle into a glass and give it to that owner of that bottle. So they're not really selling alcohol, quote unquote, they're selling the ability to drink socially? I mean is that really what's going on here or are there bars in dry counties where they do actually sell the alcohol you can actually go in and buy huh oh heck yeah absolutely They actually sell the alcohol as a regular bar you go in there there's restaurants today well I say today There are other restaurants that do that. You pay a buck, and you don't have to pay any money for membership association by the way but you pay a buck, you join the club, you eat your lunch and then you can buy a bottle of alcohol and that's in a direct county so those things exist

28:12 Interesting. So how would this work with like marijuana? Because the big thing is that it's legal in some states like California, but it's not legal to consume in public. Vegas has this problem too because it's such a travel destination but you can't smoke at any hotel so you really have nowhere to go. You don't have a home base and you can buy it, but that's it. Especially, you know if you want to smoke socially like an Amsterdam coffee shop. There's nothing so Hypothetically I could open something like the higher side club in San Diego and allow people to smoke Communally and even sell it in there If it's a PMA 100% yes, I'm actually a couple in Ohio Oh, here's again, Ohio and they came after him a little bit but he's fine about pretty well

29:01 So yeah, you can do that. And we have another program that allows us to do more of that with actually a little bit better protection but I think that's the alcohol piece of it what we're doing with our case because it's going to prove... Well, if you go to San Diego right now all the little cannabis shops and dispensaries probably only half are licensed with the state anyway. Some would say only half them are legal but I think they're all legal, right? There is one half of them that are licensed Right and that's an important distinction because there are no licenses or permits in a PMA it's like it's not illegal to drive but. But you have to have a permit or license to have that quote unquote privilege. I'm trying to just come up with an analogy because there are things that aren't technically illegal as long as your signed off on, that you can do this thing and in the private sector which we just completely forgot about there is a legal infrastructure that allows you to make your own rules as long it's not something

30:00 Massively like across the board illegal. Like what is the limit? Could I open a cocaine friendly nightclub and say well if you're in the PMA, You can do it in here Yeah, I don't know apparently and theoretically that could happen and you would have some huge pressure immediately from that ease And so let's look at Oregon for instance. Oregon cannabis is legal and civil asylums are legal, and basically they legalize I think everything for the most part. If they find an 8-block cocaine on you or something like that it's a misdemeanor or something. Somebody told me that just two or three weeks ago but I knew the civil asylum and the cannabis were both legal so there in the city and counties give them a little bit of control so its legalized statewide in the city and county

30:45 extra authority over it so there can be more money extracted from people. And that's the whole reason of their, it's already legal. We already know that they like it. It's okay." They're looking at as an income that they can own that whole stream of income on it because they're greedy and they need more money. And then they don't care whether we have cannabis or psilocybin. They just care about where the money is being paid to pay them in order to have that structure. So basically, it's just strong and it's bullying us into using our programs to pay them their money So if you think about anything that we do in a private membership association, cannabis and civisylum in Oregon. It's already been okayed by them there is nothing there so you can do it on your own knowing law that would be breaking it wouldn't be a cannabis or any other laws for doing that. It would be the law of not giving them their money That's going to take that they were really have on because its legalized. So with that mind I mean did you could open dispensary and your selling inside of a dispenser? They can just find you

31:47 They don't have a license to take away with you. You're not in contract room, so you really didn't even have to pay the fine. They'd come after you personally but that's how much can they really do with that? So inside of a private membership association, your people aren't in the public. The public has no authority." The Supreme Court wrote it night and day straight up. Think about this here. Let's say my wife and I are over at your house and we're having dinner and we're drinking a glass of wine and our friend Joe comes in with a case of wine and we do a little wine tasting. And I like one of the bottles and I ask Joe, hey Joe can I buy that bottle? And Joe goes absolutely! So I buy that bottle of wine and we're in California, right? So we know that they're pretty tight on everything here. So I bought the bottle of wine from Joe. Joe sells me the bottle of wine. I don't need a license. Joe doesn't need a license. We're in your home no license necessary." And then we take that same scenario inside of our private membership association and put it downtown Los Angeles

32:41 And we can have that same transaction with a thousand people in the building. If everybody's a member of our association, and we have wine to sell them they can all buy wine inside of our membership association without us needing no license to be able to sell it. And that same thing applies to any kind of product period And there's strict rules that says unless you're actually actively causing harm to people they are dying from, they can't break the private membership association. The things that we do in our homes today if we smoke cannabis and we could smoke cannabis in our home no problem they have no authority over it so for a private membership association and we have a little building downtown Los Angeles or downtown wherever we want

33:26 in California, we could bring our friends and family because when you're in a private membership association the relationship is that as friends and family. That's how it ties into PMA or the members of that association are treated as friends and family so we can have 1000 people in there doing cigars drinking alcohol smoking cannabis all without the jurisdiction of the city or state period Interesting interesting so there are a lot of real practical useful examples and sectors i want to talk about but just use one more kind of silly example as to try to find where the line would be could a private member association startup for.

34:08 just to get out of the realm of substances, could they create one for fighting to the death where a dozen people sign up and they say I understand the consequences. I'm going into this knife fight and this is a place where we have knifefights every Friday night? Some people die some people make it out can they even enter into that agreement? Absolutely not! That's the line... That's the one case where you're not allowed because people are actively dying in a harms way. So that scenario would not ever fly instead of a private membership association And that's interesting because it's like, you know the old joke is well You can't kill yourself because it's illegal to damage government property But it's like you should have a right To risk your life in an knife fight if use so choose without consequence It's your life but there's no law that says you must make good sound decisions. Right? But whatever That's just a silly example but I did want to ask you about how this applies to

35:10 Doctors and hospitals and the field of medicine because you're working on something called the healing hub. And this is really interesting because so often I will interview holistic doctors, I know doctor Andrew Kaufman had you on his podcast And this is the kind of medicine I want to engage in for me and my family. But it is difficult because you write three vaccine exemptions, in the state of California, you get your license taken away so defined a pediatrician that is cool with the way we want to raise our daughter. We did it but it's been difficult and

35:45 the healing hub can help people take control back over the medical decisions they want to make rather than being beholden to these overarching medical cabals. Is that right? Absolutely 100%. And what we do, and I have today...I dove into the medical community last year after we went to the hospital and i was probably like one of the last people that was allowed in as a visitor that wasn't vaccinated And like the very next week, somebody from our county or community went to the hospital. Same hospital he ended up dying of COVID and his wife had to say goodbye on a Zoom call because she wasn't vaccinated and that shouldn't happen so I got very upset with that. And I dove into the medical community and I talked to thousands of doctors over the next three or four months after that. Today we have hundreds of doctors

36:39 in every single one, I say doctors medical professionals from every single avenue from a brain surgeon all the way to massage therapist right and PMAs across the country. Most of them with their license but some of them without a license and the ones without license have lost it due to either not being vaccinated and then the state get mad because they weren't vaccinated taking away their license and or for helping somebody with COVID the way they didn't see fit Even talking, I've got a doctor in Maine who had his license taken away because he agreed with somebody on Facebook on how to treat a COVID patient. And then the very next week or so they... The medical board and the state came and took away his license. So these things you operate inside of a private membership association again because being a doctor or any medical professional that you are, the state didn't make you that

37:34 And we'll go right back into like if you're selling cannabis as a dispenser, the state didn't do that business. They just want money and that's the state's interest into your medical practices for money to be able to control what you do so they can control the narrative of how and the things that you provide and don't provide. Then also to be able to extract money from those two components give them power Power for the government is more important than money. They want our power because they know with power, they get money as well and it comes along as a secondary piece of them right? So we know those things happen so inside of a private membership association, we're free to take a doctor who... And I'll give you a really easy example. I have heart palpitations. It's gotten worse over the years. I've had it for probably 12 years and typically if I drank too much vodka

38:26 over a weekend or something, then I would get palpitation like on Monday morning and it would palpitate irritatingly for an hour. It turned into something that even without drinking alcohol just with sugars or caffeine or even carbohydrates, I would palpitate for awhile. So I go to the doctor, the heart cardiologist, we go through this whole program and forget what's going on and he doesn't know the root cause but he knows it is my heart so he wants to give me heart medicine And it's like, yeah you know what? My heart is palpitating and I know the root cause in my mind was caused from alcohol. And from sugar or whatever that was bad for my diet. It all rolls back into your gut right now. All the things we have in our gut are from our gut so we researched a whole bunch and started looking at what was going on. My wife is amazing researcher

39:12 And right now, I'm starting a program to become a naturopath. So that's one of her dreams to do that. Nice! She is working on that but she researches and we start talking looking at my symptoms which this is the medical community's answer to medicine today. This is how hospitals react other than a broken bone or bleeding or something like you can see those things but this is how they react all the rest of things happen to us. They treat the symptom with pharmaceutical drug and then after period time That pharmaceutical drug may take care of the symptom a little bit, it just kind of over masks it. But what happens is that that symptom, the root cause gets worse and worse and worse. And then something else happens and then you need another drug. Before you know it, you have a whole table of pharmaceutical drugs to taking and you still aren't feeling well because nobody ever told you what was their root cause? Nobody ever took the time to figure that out and fix that so we figured out my pancreas

40:09 And we treated my pancreas and we healed myself. So that's as simple as what functional medicine really does, and Vanessa two years ago I was pushing her around in a wheelchair because she has rheumatoid arthritis and she researched and figured out how to heal herself and she got ozone treatments and some low dose immune therapies and most of all she changed their diet She ate non-inflammatory foods and a bunch of other stuff, changed her gut. Today she's working out five or six days a week." And that's the difference and everybody has the ability to do this and 99.9% of people don't because they believe what their doctor tells them and that's what they do. They take that pharmaceutical drug... I was speaking in Miami this weekend

40:55 And we were talking about afterwards, talking to some people about what's going on. Their whole thing is we're basically farm animals and in that they farm us when we're born to work, to pay them money And then as we get older, they want to see us sick. So they put things out there to make us sick which they do and we know that our foods look at America, look at the obesity thing in America and obesity is just one piece of it. That's a visual effect of having bad gut because you're eating wrong things so that makes them unhealthy to begin with and they do this on purpose. The advertisements and all those things and money and just the foods and flavors and all those

41:33 So, all of a sudden we have an unhealthy community and then they go in there and they give them pharmaceuticals. And they don't give him a pharmaceutical that's going to heal him, they give him a pharmaceutical that's gonna need another one. So now we've entered into the farming event where now were herd animals and they're giving us these things to keep us alive so they can make more money so we can end up dying of cancer so they could make a bunch of money at the end." And that's just over and over. And it's just rampant, that's how everybody lives their lives. We as a nation need to step up and I think that's really cool with what's happened with the COVID you know? As much is in this bad as COVID did entreated our nation, I think that it brought the awareness level of a bunch and put us into position to see these things happening and understand them. And as we go forward, we're going end up with, I think in the next couple years probably the healthiest nation percentage of people now we've ever seen

42:28 When I say ever, go back into when people ate raw foods because that's what we need to do. Eat raw foods and eat real foods. So when that stopped in maybe the 60s and it changed over 50-60s, that's when things started Right. It was a real wake-up call for sure and for people who are medical professionals that wanted to say give people ivermectin or do things in a more natural way, well they can have their license revoked because this is not how the system wants to perform medicine so the PMA is important because it allows

43:05 customers or patients who want to go a natural route to find a practitioner that they can trust that they think is an authority in this area and then they can enter into the relationship of being a member and carry on their own way. And The Healing Hub is actually creating a network across the country, these types of doctors right? Yeah, absolutely. We have when COVID was rampant and really hitting hard We're just in our community looking to see what we can possibly help with. Everybody in our freedom communities, everybody that we knew that had any kind of issues, we sent them to a friend of ours who healed a lot of people and helped a lot of people with COVID, a bunch. Then depending where you live the country because the doctor network I had, I'd find people across the country they could help them when it's sending there, we get them ivermectin and we get them treated, we give them quercetin and all the things that they needed to have in order to be a little more protected with this COVID garbage

44:04 And in that we started what's called the mini healing hubs. And we put a bunch of them out there, this was basically a doctor or nurse who got fired for not being vaccinated and they went out and they were delivering products and helping people out of their car to make us work a bunch of work they're doing. And some of them were hugely successful in doing this, where today they're actually working in brick and mortar now because they've built a big enough network when COVID decided down a little bit and started to have less patients than they just shift to their natural things that they did before and start helping people but this network of things that we set up and we have a network

44:40 practices, outpatient care facilities and everything that you can think of as far across the country who are private membership associations and or freedom medical people facilities that are all part of our team. And we just now oh gosh about a month ago started building out part of our building and this is the transition change I talked about. We used to have, you know we were going to build a brewery in a restaurant that would be killing people right slowly and then say we're building our first healing hub Briefing more healing up here in our building. Wow, it is absolutely amazing what we're going to be doing with it if the construction's done for It was already all you know built out We just you know painted it and into some a few little things too right now We're having it branded and then when it's done branding we're gonna go pick up all of our

45:32 Basically, furniture and design for the inside. Our modalities are being ordered and we're going to be up and running probably November 15th-ish somewhere right around there. And the things that we're going to start off with right away are going to be like infrared sauna just a detox. Infrared saunas are amazing! Not everybody lives where I live and they take this information that I give from anywhere in the country. If you have some issues 99.9% of people across the country If they only did one simple, easy thing it would be to detox their body. Everybody has garbage in their body that makes you not feel good which can cause other things so if you only do one little piece of thing right is the detox would be great and it's very simple inside an infrared sauna. Secondarily we have different modalities, one called a bubbler scaler.

46:21 We're going to have light therapies with full spectrum lights. We have a photon machine that actually heats your bone marrow, to help you stimulate your own stem cell growth but one of the most exciting things we're going to do in our structure what we've done is created this special entity that allows us to do different things and one of the things were doing is we are gonna do actual real stem cell therapy And in that, we're going to be able to take and we're buying stem cells from mothers who are in contract and they're going to have a C-section. And these are all 100% non vaccinated umbilical cords. So no vaccination

47:01 The cords are all done ethically and we've got this product that we designed in a system that is not like the standard stem cell where standard stem cells, couple years ago or year ago when they became illegal in United States. They were about from 0 to 3% actual active dose live culture and then ours are 4 1⁄2 to 5 million active stem cells per dose. which means we're not going to have any planktosis anymore. People are going to be healed easier and better and faster, all those kinds of things. We're going to do IV therapies. We're gonna get into a hyperbaric chamber at one point where you'll do ozone treatments, oxygen and hydrogen primers

47:44 all kinds of stuff. It's going to be a true healing hub and it all basically cores around the first part of it, which is taking a fingernail putting into a machine and finding your root cause of your problem that's the most important thing and then actually treating the root cause not treating But treating the root cause so you have true healing. And our center is, one of the things in our branding is we are here to help heal you spiritually mentally and physically and out those three healings and our eyes and our viewpoint is they're all the same because God gives us the power but God heals us with that in mind when you know that when you believe it

48:26 That's how we heal ourselves from the top down at the root cause of what is really the problem. And that's how we create a healthier nation, right? Yeah I believe it and so The Private Membership Association makes all this possible and you also are working on the renegade nation dot org so you know the renegade ranch was the name of the grocery store that, you guys open when there was the need for that and people could even go into a place. And now i have to renegade nation dot or which is a database and network of businesses that are pmas or at least have never complied with mandates is that right

49:10 Yeah, and they're freedom businesses. And whether you originally complied with mandates is what I find that 99% of people when they got threatened hard enough don't understand that you don't need to listen to them when they tell you stuff that's not lawful, comply at some point. So it's not about never complying, it's about waking up and not complying today. In the two components that we require, we have no rules inside here for the most part on what kind of business you are and all those different things. To some extent, we want let some in there but That's not our point. That's not our job to do that. Our job is to make sure that you do not and will not ever ask anybody or mandate anybody be masked for vaccinated

49:50 period, employees yourself your customers. That was the main intent in far as the setup part of the main intended of The Renegade Nation at their very first onset was because we never flew because we don't you know wouldn't wear a mask so we drove across the country you know all over Louisiana Texas Louisiana you know Texas twice Arizona you know all over the country were driving and we would have a hard time finding hospital for one of us to go to if something happened So that was we started driving a lot thinking about that and also for food were taking me out we're going out to breakfast in having to go to two or three places sometimes to be able to find something let us in without wearing a mask. No so redesign the renegade nation to help take care of as we start growing the renegade nation instruction ideas,

50:38 We look at what are we going to do about our country because we don't have a lot of time left if nothing changes, right? And fortunately I think they've woke up enough people that start making some inherent changes across the country. But if we don't do anything, we're dying! Our country is gonna die and you can only bleed so much before there's nothing left So what my dream is, thinking about how we can fix this whole country and thing that we've got is. We need to make another political party because we're not going to be able to put people in office in the Republican or Democratic Party that are going to be able to go in there deep enough fast enough to make any kind of real change. Because if you look at both parties they're all the same people

51:19 They might pretend to be one thing up front, but behind the door. Together they're all doing the same thing they're structurally building the things in a mess that we have today as team and there's no way that could not be doing that because of the way things have gone down I truly believe that we need another political party and if you look at how many people are on our side people just like us Greg there's 100 million easy and probably 150 and if we take that hundred million or plus and we Let everybody know we're already in our own parallel society. We already have a new parallel economy and things that we have to do when they take things away from us, we had to find a way to make it work right and we're doing those things amazing things are coming out of this structure but now we can take them we can assemble these groups because we have millions of little freedom fighter groups across the country there's so many it's ridiculous

52:10 And we start bringing them together as county groups and then state groups. And then all of a sudden, we have enough state groups to be able to make a federal impact and we started taking back our government one little teeny town, one little city, one big town, one big city at a time across the country until we're into states and back into federal government real last changes inside of our structure, of our government that can last lifetimes and decades. And one of the things that we need to do is our government, our system today... One of my friends ran as governor here this last term her name's Renette Senem and she's amazing person and I think would make the best governor we've had since Pete Wilson. And I think that her platform is called a seventh generation platform and it runs on the basis of you need to leave your land

52:58 better for every seventh generation. So if we continue to do that, and it's not just about the land is about our everything's about our economy, it's about our politics, and it's about our structure about the way that people are in the United States. If we continually to make those changes for the better, for every single generation across the board, we're going to be much better place without that in seven years right now, or we're gonna be a mess. And you take that seven generations and you times out a few times, and there's no more United States. It's done Right. There's no more the world is all does everything that we do, this whole place would be a mess. It's our responsibility to take care of this and to make this change. And I truly believe it's in doing a new political party to be able to outvote these guys in office across the board. Well, I appreciate the vision for sure. And with PMAs another thing I wanted to ask you about was taxes because it seems like not only do you get to make some of your own rules but there are tax benefits as well?

53:56 There are. So we make PMAs a couple different ways, one of them would be a PMA that just operates like an LLC or corporation that would be a taxable event so that's the first PMA that we do The second one, if you qualify for it—and most people do when you look at the structure of how it's done—is that we build church-based ministries. And it's amazing that the people who are in our space and attracted to things that we want freedom and beliefs, they're mostly all believers which is amazing! So we built a church based ministry and with that church based ministry were allowed to elect what was called 508C1A.

54:32 And that's a tax status, just like a 501 tax status. That as well is the tax status. It's not a business structure it's not an entity you have to have an LLC To put the 501 into and just like with the 508 you have to have the PMA to be able to put the 508 into church. So we build a PMA, combine it with the church and then attach the 508 C1A structure to it which makes this a non-taxable event and inside that non taxable even you don't not only no pay taxes anymore but you don't have to fill out a report anymore there's no more reporting. It is what called mandatory exception in

55:08 And it's right in the IRS code under the 501 code, or the 5-0 code. You need to scroll down after 501 and you get down on the 508 and find a 508 C 1 A. They don't have the authority, ability to tell us we can or can't have this. So basically you could start a church and say I'm a 508 and they can't tell you that you're not. They've no opinion on it. They have no authority to do that. No jurisdiction. What we do is set up our church based ministries across the country as church-based ministers. And then they elect a 508 C1A, they pay no state or federal income taxes their employees can transfer over to 1099 employees and then 1099 employees you know they work you give them their money at the end of year you give them a 1099 and do their taxes. Interesting so how does that work for something that is more business oriented like could the grocery store you had be a 508? Could the weed club that I might start be a 508

56:06 100% are grocery stores with 508 C1A and a cannabis club could 100% be a 508 C1A. Really? See, absolutely! I've heard you talk about this now is just really curious about it. I actually had a previous guest that brought this idea up as well that when a lot of churches form, they form as 501s or non-profits form as 501s which makes you susceptible to a lot of policies. You give up a lot of rights that were affected heavily during the COVID years and so there's obviously this benefit but the tax thing is really interesting I mean

56:47 you can basically avoid sales tax on products. But I found this from a tax education website and I wanted to see what you thought of it, but it says the United States Congress gives associations favored tax treatment largely in recognition of the benefit that public derives from its activities and reduces the need for further funding through taxpayer money. In simple terms, associations earn their tax exempt status by meeting many of the needs of its members the government would otherwise have to meet. For example, associations can provide job training or plan community events that the government would normally organize for the public good

57:26 Here's where it gets interesting. As tax-exempt entities, associations are barred from accumulating equity appreciation for private profit. Instead these organizations take on incentives to benefit members and the public rather than private members. Its earnings therefore must be dedicated to furthering the primary purpose of which they were organized." So, when I read this it's like well the way a lot of non-profits like a cancer association gets away with skirting some of this is they just say oh well we made two million dollars this year

58:02 Our CEO gets paid $2 million. You can always raise a salary and you can also throw money into the never-ending bottomless pit that is marketing, those are two areas where you can always slide the scale however you want but it does say that you can't really have private profits in this situation. Does what I'm reading apply here or are the methods that I mentioned in the way to satisfy that? No, it does. When you have a nonprofit and how that is determined so basically you can't pay the dividend or like pay through K1 so you're not allowed to do those because those are private profits. So that would be like having investors and paying out private profits. You can't do that however when you pay yourself a salary

58:51 And that's whatever you want it to be, that's reasonable. And today what's reasonable? You can look across the country and see what's reasonable and there is no such thing as reasonable anymore. It's whatever you want to pay yourself but the money that's made by a nonprofit is for the embedded of the nonprofit And if you're the chairperson trustee or the chairperson of that nonprofit, then in your being paid a salary, you're doing that salary and the works that you do are for them better than of that nonprofit. The betterment of that nonprofit can include hey I live in California and I think that I want to expand my nonprofit to Hawaii and you go to Hawaii by a piece property in Hawaii

59:33 for the embeddment of that nonprofit. So you can do that, you can go buy that property or condo or house in Hawaii, you could buy one anywhere you wanted to buy it for the embeddement of that nonprofit. Right and that's a big gray area like who is to determine what is for the betterment of the company? And what kind of cool in the way we set up with our ministries so here just kinda give an idea so our main organization for everything that we do is The Church at Renegade Ranch So that's our church. That's the main church, and all it is a church. And that church has mission and that mission is basically to reach people. That's the mission of any churches—to reach people period. As Christians, the Church is not a brick-and-mortar. The Church is the People

1:00:22 Right. And we've been commanded to go reach more people, Christians and non-Christians alike. So the money that we use and that we make is used for that purpose—to go reach people. How do we reach people? We can reach people any way we want to. There's no definition on it. We can do whatever we wanted to be able to reach people. Yeah, we do it through a number of different ways. All of them are great when we reach a lot of people. So inside of that, there's no guideline. There is no authority from them doing the authority that the IRS has on what we do and what it looks like is when you make money inside your PMA they want to pay yourself a 1099 and to pay your employees for the 1099. And as the taxable point if you think about it structurally just like this here take it to a regular for-profit LLC. An LLC is a true pass through entity

1:01:11 And in that true pass-through entity, inside the money of the LLC you can use all that money in there for the betterment of that business. Right? Completely. Whatever you want to do with that business to make it better and bigger and stronger or whatever you want to do with it. The only time that there's any taxation inside that LLC is when you pay yourself or pay somebody else that works for you. That's the only taxation point. The PMA does similarly the same thing where there's no taxation inside the entity. It only gets taxed when you pay it out That's why that works. And then the IRS has a formula, they have a 14 point guideline that they've created that you can pull off a line and I supply and educate and counsel everybody that I work with on our private membership association on this 14 point because that's what keeps us completely in their mind legal

1:02:00 And they built this document for us to be, it's our saving document. We do these items and it works. There are 14 points there and you need to do nine of them. The documents that we create are at least theastically non-statutory common law documents and with you being having a faith in God, and with the document it takes care of six of those line items. So you only need to find three more that work for you out of the 14 right? I like it! Yeah, it's structurally sound, it works well. It sounds like I'm gonna have to turn The Higher Side Chats into The Higher Side Church before too long. You know what's very simple thing to do man

1:02:40 So as we are wrapping this up, give the people a little more info about ThePMAteam.club and how you do help people set up these structures for their own services and businesses? Yeah, so basically like I said my website, my email address is Mike at The PMA Team dot club My main website is TheRenegadeBranch.org You can reach me on either one of those It basically, if you're interested in looking at or seeing anything from a PMH to a trust to an international trust and have anything that you need in between I can help you through those products. We are full service we do all the stuff and one of my main...I think what differentiates me from the rest of the people out there doing these things is that I truly am here to help you before during after

1:03:36 We're here to help through the life of your business and through your interaction with us. We're here to help answer questions and help you through processes, and we offer all those services all the time. And we're here for the long haul but my goals in dreams go way beyond the PMA portion of what we're doing in the PMA portion of what we're doing is very, very structurally needed in the overall big picture which is to create our new parallel economy or new parallel society So that's my dream, my goal and that's what my commitment is to all of my customers. I'm here to help you if they want to see billions of PMAs in the next couple years. It would be a beautiful thing! And I do like the use of the .club in several of your URLs it's a nice touch

1:04:22 Thank you. It is my wife picked that out, saw it grabbed it and then we've been doing those where appropriate. Yes and so before I really cut you loose give the people all the URLs and info they should know So far I have renegade ranch dot club for the grocery store Renegade nation org which is the database And then the PMA team dot Club Is there anything else? That's what we have right now We're going to have a healing hub coming up right now like I said we're branding that so don't be on healing help website here pretty quick. And not sure what that's going to be, but we got the PMA team dot club and then the renegade nation.org those are the two main ones right there for the URL portions of it and we'll have a healing hub something up here pretty soon. You'll be able to access that through either one or the other sites on link and then also the branding of it will put it out through social media pretty heavily and get that thing branded effectively. Great so yeah

1:05:21 And of course, I will include the URLs in the show notes as well as your contact if you really feel confident that you want to weather that storm. But if people not only they if they want to set this up but even if they're just looking for a resource, you can be their point man for that. Absolutely. I'm here to help Wow. Well, I appreciate the dedication and the passion and this was really educational we certainly see the need for it so thanks for enlightening us and keep up the great work man take care I appreciate so much but you have a wonderful day and thank you for your time. What you're doing is the great thing right we love our part in what were doing here today to make it better place and you are sure are doing your part which is amazing amen thank you for that thank you well how we doing out there last show of the month i'm sure this is unexpected topic but i do find it pretty interesting as a potential business structure

1:06:18 I imagine it'll spawn a good amount of conversation. I did some digging before setting this up and couldn't find many naysayers It may be less convenient to create a private club rather than having an open door business But pretty much everything i saw said that if you go through the trouble, this is a real thing And you guys know I love all slices of the conspiracy pie they're all my babies But I do give far less attention to the slice that we might call legal loopholes slash corporate strawman slash sovereign citizen stuff than a lot of my colleagues do. And, when it comes to the Jordan Maxwell stuff—the history of maritime law, the symbolism of the courts and the idea of us being livestock traded on Wall Street or owned by the Vatican—I find that fun to listen to but don't find it practical or really actionable.

1:07:11 From what I've seen, if you try to take a lot of that sovereign citizen stuff to the courts You're gonna have a bad time. So i tend to stay away from shows that try to tell ya how to beat the system legally Cause I don't really want to inspire people to spend their days in court arguing That they are only a man of the earth not the entity described on the paper so all that just to say that I was a bit skeptical about this In the beginning But the more I read and the more i learned about Mike's real world experience, the more I was intrigued. Because I saw a lot of businesses kind of operating this way during the COVID lockdowns without even really knowing it. I would see barber shops with all the blinds drawn and the open sign turned off and the doors locked but people would walk down the back alley and come out with a tight fade so something was going on there

1:08:04 But the real deal seems to be a huge benefit for medical and educational clubs. That is where I see this being the most useful, and I appreciate Mike's passion but it does seem like they have a lot of work to do to catch up to some of things we talked about The Healing Hub has a way to go It doesn't even have a proper website yet It's always a little bittersweet when I feel like some of the conversation we're having is premature because you can't just in all your excitement hop off the podcast and jump right in. But, I suppose if you are in need of finding any of these types of places in your area you can contact Mike directly

1:08:43 Also in this episode you heard some rare instances of me trying to correct a sound issue that ended up staying in the interview because there just wasn't a good natural place to splice it. Not a big deal, but just a funny little thing that happened This all did get me thinking about the higher side cafe again though another potential side business that keeps the THC initials intact It's something I've thought about for a long time. A weed-friendly coffee shop that plays conspiracy documentaries on the TV instead of sports or whatever, maybe THC episodes play as well? Nothing intrusive but just like nice subtle background stuff and then maybe we do a live event every Friday night or something! I don't know...I got a pretty good thing going here and to do the cafe would cost a lot of money

1:09:36 It would be really putting my neck out there. And I also wouldn't want to do it in California So if the next place we live is Colorado or Washington, then great If it's Texas or Florida then that's probably even further down the line A PMA seems perfect for a cannabis cafe though The cannabis community has already conditioned to jump through a hoop or two To do what they want to do Oh! I need a doctors note? Sure whatever it takes When I was in Barcelona, I had to pay like 20 bucks to go into a private club and that was something i was willing to do for just a single night. Cocaine is a little bit wilder though...I can't really imagine that working but hey marijuana is still a schedule one drug on paper federally so from a legal perspective it might actually be more similar than I think it is as strange as that sounds obviously that's less important I just wanted to find what Mike considered to be the line for PMAs

1:10:35 I was gonna ask about prostitution clubs but i felt like we spent enough time on the outlier examples and the more useful universal practical examples needed to get their time in the spotlight. So I hope you found something intriguing about all this. Maybe just the fact that it's a interesting substructure, that we totally forgot about the private sector and we can operate businesses within it? Maybe you're charged up about starting your own PMA or at least found Mike's personal stories with it a bit interesting maybe we will see more of this in our culture maybe if you see a PMA now you'll know what it means and might be more intrigued to

1:11:17 Check it out, but let Mike know if you have questions or need a resource. The PMAteam dot club Renegade Ranch dot Club Renegade Nation dot org And as always the conversation continued for another hour for plus members who want more and are gracious enough to support this venture today we got into. The question of how this structure got lost and forgotten about pmas for childhood education what other business types can benefit from pma's the cons to a pma, Liberty dollar financial association that was pretty interesting to me we talked about the history of supreme court challenges to the pma structure as well as some creative businesses that i found in the renegade nation database. One those being private flying clubs and all about that,

1:12:11 We talked about international PMAs and why the need for PMAs was not just some temporary thing during COVID, why this is something that you should think about long term. All good stuff more fuel for the fire sign up at TheHigherSideChats.com and get a free one week trial And to hop over to the Meetups calendar let's check out the November events Actually it looks like somebody slid in a Halloween party tonight If you are in Cleveland, Ohio and don't have any Halloween plans check that calendar. Then November 3rd we have the LA Truthers going back to Flame International Restaurant. November 5th we have the Conspiracy Theorizers in High Springs Florida. November 7th the Ontario THC meetup at Raymond Community Hall

1:13:00 November 11th, Topeka. Topeka Kansas at the Performing Arts Center. November 12th, the very next day Asheville North Carolina. November 13th the Utah Athena Beans Bistro Meetup and November 20th the Bridgewater Triangle THC meet up at West Bridgewater Massachusetts Bartlett's Alehouse Love it. Seven meetups for November already, that is great! I love to see people using the calendar and networking locally through a common appreciation for this show and the guests and topics we get into It's a beautiful thing But i'm going to get going Lots to do before we enjoy Little Theory's first real Halloween We got her into a Gizmo costume And she looks great

1:13:51 I hope you're all gearing up for a good time of your own, so thanks for listening. Take care of you and yours and keep your head up out there! Big thanks to Mike for sharing yet another possible solution...to the problems ahead? That's it from me, i've done my part Your move Solution Suppressors Control Hungry Authorities PMA Structure Secret Keepers You're fuckin' who Well they tie that yellow ribbon round the oak tree They've worn out all the prayer in their long thought they were rooting for the home team as they're sent to the game and torn apart. We twist this tourniquet upon the pipeline that it carries all the pain and looms, As we blindly clap and cheer from the sidelines It's clear on a losing streak from the restart And that's where

1:14:57 In the cemetery A smoking gun in my downfall THC, The American Scream They took that faded ribbon off the oak tree Poured out all the hope in their arms How long I thought I was doing I'm lying in a pool of my blood And that's where they found me

1:15:49 In the cemetery A smoking gun in my land of the free Sing with me And that's where they found In the cemetery a smoking gun in my hand Now I'm down from the land of the THC The Americans scream! The Americans scream! And that's where they found

1:16:49 And that is another show complete. Remember, as much as you enjoyed this which is just the free first hour I hope you'll become a plus member to hear the full two-hour interviews

1:17:25 You also can engage with other Plus Members in the comments and the forums. And you'll find your answer to one of the most common questions I get, which is where can i find those cover songs that you use at the end of the show? Well they are free downloads for Plus Members too! And without Plus Members, I can't hire the occasional musician to bring these odd cover song ideas to fruition. Plus members are how I'm able to do what I do without ads and without the big machine being on my back! We can fit so much more into a two-hour interview and I'd do my best to make it worth your time and money." The conversation only gets deeper, weirder, and more controversial in that private hour. How could it not be the way things are going?

1:18:06 But the best way to sign up is at TheHigherSideChats.com, where new first-time subscribers always get a free 7 day trial because I'm just that confident! There's no PayPal on the website but if you need to use PayPal then sign up through Patreon and you get all of the same episodes Our website is a credit or debit system, but you can also scope out the other options like a few various cryptos. Cash or check mailed to the P.O box and I'll even barter with most people if you have your own business and produce something nice that my wife or kid or taste buds might like But the architects of consensus reality have made it clear that these themes and topics aren't really welcome on the main stage. And so this is how we secure a little counterculture corner for ourselves, and I hope you'll join PLUS because that's the only way it works!

1:18:54 Besides, you can cancel any time right on your profile page. The most common concern I hear is people just being unsure if THC Plus will work with their podcast app and the answer is probably yes! But if not we have several high-level app recommendations for whatever phone you use and the website is made for mobile too We're trained to tip a waitress for bringing us a sandwich, but that tip doesn't give you access to a second sandwich. Really I'm not asking for any more than that and think I offer better service. Come get your second serving of tasty conspiracy goodness in exchange for that small token of your appreciation. Beyond that let it also be known we have grown and survived as long as we have by word-of-mouth

1:19:37 I don't care so much about social media likes or follows, but tell the right people about THC. And not just listeners but the high-level figures who are better suited to sit down with me than most other hosts And if you can help me with any of these things I can work to bring you better shows which is just a win-win for both us. Informative, entertaining and action packed! It also never hurts to thank a guest you liked if you have the time either we want them to know people are listening so they're willing to come back down the road too Thank YOU for spending some time with me and cheers to a better tomorrow