Matthew J. Bell | Twilight Language, The Rebirth of Pan, & The Occult Advisors Of The Ruling Class

00:09 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have There's clearly be something there Beyond until we test it We last close-tested view Fine, the more we think the less we really Where would we be without T? See into us Just don't agree

01:05 Coming in like a wrecking ball from the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And in this world of constant input it's hard to even gather your thoughts about anything! If you're not working planning your next meal sitting in traffic or staring at blue light through one screen or another... You're probably asleep maybe in more ways than one But the point is that flooding your zone with a constant bombardment of unnecessary stimuli is strategic, because Kristoff does not want Truman asking the big questions or thinking too deeply about anything.

01:49 Not how he came to be or where he is, not the matrix of numbers and symbols that overlay everything across time and space. Not the strange synchronicities that pepper themselves throughout one's life in major events. Definitely not the powerful flows of energy ether psi effects and certainly will or manifestation Yet there are those who call themselves the synchromystics, who have picked up on an oddity of ordering that wells up around certain events whether natural or ritual is still debated and probably always will be. But threads of similarities in name and number weave through pop culture and major events in a way that seems directed and intentional yet almost beyond the control of any occult cabal that might want to engineer reality with such elegance and detail

02:33 So what really are we to do but observe and at least try to unpack what it all means? And here to do that today is Matthew J. Bell returning to THC after a wildly popular show just three months ago If you recall, Matthew is a friend and protege of some of the best to ever do it. Namely Michael Hoffman and Jim Brandon And through folding in their insights with his own He ended up taking us deeper down the synchromistic rabbit hole than many others could You can find his work at TheSynchroMystic.com as well as The Synchromystic on YouTube and he writes regularly at MatthewJBell.SubStack.com

03:09 I'm psyched to be doing it again, sure to be another wild one. The synchromystic scribe of Substack the pattern parser and conspiratorial decoder ring wearer Mr Bell my good man welcome back! Oh wow well thanks again it's a pleasure to be back and looking forward to it and your introductions leave me speechless so i do kind so in case people forgot last time we had isolated a few your posts we plan to focus on and we just went so far off script that we barely even touched on them and thats fine it's nice to have a plan just in case the conversation doesn't lead itself

03:45 But now we can revisit those things elaborate on some points we might have glossed over and talk about the work you put out since then. What to get the ball rolling you send our emails that you've been thinking a lot more lately on that question of what evidence really pushed you firmly into being a synchro mystic in adopting it as a worldview position, I don't want to retread the same ground but as a reintroduction for people. I'm curious what else you might have to say on that with the added time you've had to reflect on it? Yeah! I appreciate it and the way that I approach the question is what evidence and I suppose when you think about this question there's really two ways to understand what's being asked one way is a list

04:29 where I'm gonna give you a bunch of examples of synchronicities, whether they're personal ones or whether they are ones that anybody can access like that have to do with the JFK assassination on 9-11 or something. And what I was thinking is that it's really the worldview orientation that a person has and I know we spoke at length about this last time people commented on it and I was gratified that a lot of people resonated with them. My thought is If you're talking to somebody who has no sympathy with synchronicities or that way of thinking at all, it really doesn't matter. Like when you think to yourself what would I say to them? To sort of bring them on board if they're unmoved by some

05:10 analysis of the JFK assassination, of the level that was achieved by say James Shelby Downer and Michael Hoffman for example in King Kill 33 or if you go to Kent Bain and his detailed analysis of 9-11 Most Dangerous. If that doesn't move somebody then what am I going to say? Hey before I did my interview with Greg Carlwood the car in front of me had a license plate that had the letters THC Okay, well I mean no one who's not moved by the JFK details is going to be moved. I think by that extra fact and is that a true fact? By the way yes funny but you know

05:53 Really, I'd like to do an analysis of that and this is not the time to sort of shoot from the hip on it but we did talk a little bit about some of the paradigmatic examples of synchronicity. You know like Young's Beetle really have a very personal, it's not clear that they apply to very many people whereas the JFK syncs really do so the first thing I was thinking if somebody wanted evidence that would maybe give them a reason to think there's something to it. One of the important things would just be a detailed case study, and we have those that would be the first piece of evidence but the second piece I think would be to point out that really credible at least compelling thinkers people like Jacques Valet or people like Carl Jung himself, people like Arthur Kessler

06:47 These people take this seriously. Now that's not an ironclad, it's not like oh if Jacques Vallee says it must be true. Not at all but it's that you know Jacques Vallee holds I believe two PhDs. The guy is not an intellectual lightweight nor is he obviously taken with kooky ideas the point is there are respectable intellectuals who take this seriously. That's a piece of evidence If you were to be talking to somebody who thought, oh there's nothing to this synchronicity. Well okay but Carl Jung thought there was and he is an epoch making psychologist The third thing I guess i would say Is that there are very few world views

07:32 I swear, I'm not trying to sneak in the Twilight Language analysis that I did. But when you think about the different worldviews that are available something theistic where there's you have some belief in God or a higher power That could be personal god like say Christianity or Islam Or it could be more pantheistic You know those are both theisms in general or person might tend towards a more naturalistic view Where they don't believe in supernatural Well, depending on your worldview orientation it's going to be less likely or more likely that these synchronicities are gonna find a place. I mean if there is a world populated with gods and angels or demons or something then i think synchronicity in general

08:19 as it might be explained synchronistically, has a plausibility that it might not have if you simply believe as what Hugh Jackman's character in the movie The Prestige says at the end when he's about to meet his maker so-to-speak. He says the world is solid all the way through. In other words there isn't any room for magic. He's admitting this The Prestige is about these two magicians and he's basically saying to Borden played by Christian Bale There is nothing. We lie to people essentially, but we try to make them forget that the world is solid." Well if that's your worldview you're probably gonna be a hard sell on synchronicity. You're gonna think it has something to do with the quirks of our mind rather than anything objective in the world. So anyway not to dwell or delve too deeply into the analysis part of this but that question really got my gears turning and I've been thinking about him like... The jumping off point just to repeat it was

09:18 the evidence that i think i would want to stay isn't just a laundry list of six because a person who doesn't believe in synchronicity or sees no reason to believe it, i don't think is gonna be impressed even if we came up with a new sink everyday you're like yeah we just kept adding on sinks they're not gonna buy. Well that's the funny thing because i'm just the exact opposite. I am open-minded and more and more examples push me more into yeah this is a thing but one of my criticisms has always been we're looking at like, the same five events through the last hundred years and being like look at the high degree of potency to JFK to 9 11 Oklahoma City bombing

10:06 And i start to think what this is a real phenomenon that's natural then why isn't it everywhere and as you say there are personal examples that come up. Add the last person on should make an impact on turning more people over but if they have the perspective that well just about where you focus your attention and if u look at something hard enough you always find patterns and coincidences happen yeah A list of examples especially ones that are ten years fifteen years apart aren't gonna move the needle for those people but i do. Like the point about leaning on bright minds to say to someone hey you're so close minded on this but, call young wasn't close my dad on this do you think carl young's an idiot so i had to do that kind of

10:55 Argumentation during covid like hey the guy who invented the pcr test said don't use it for this purpose you think he's crazy. How about you stop listening to the news and anyway that was carrie mollis was i carry malice yes and he had a weird forty event to be saw electric raccoon on the beach. These things are so strange and they happen more often than we realize but the big examples and that's why like we're talking before we got started here about like the cia involvement, in Twilight language and synchromysticism, at least just investigating it or seeing if there's something to it. But yet the examples we use are always like these highly suspect conspiratorial events that then take on another layer when you add in the details that are scattered over them. And that's what brings me to think maybe there is something natural going on but when

11:48 When it's all these events that intelligence agencies would be involved in planning and news organizations would be involved in promoting, now some red flags go up. Maybe this is something that's controlled you say in that piece Twilight Language, twilight invokes kind of a dream like liminal space this kind of dreamy space where it's very close to the states they want you in with MKUltra and that kind of stuff. So now we're talking about something very similar, wouldn't you say? Yeah and just to try in my way to pull those two thoughts together in general and that is that actually I'm tempted to the view although I'm not going to press it too hard but there are literally 2 different types of phenomena

12:35 are typically called by people who are sympathetic, synchronicities. I actually think there might be two different phenomena going on. You asked the question of naturalness. Well, I don't think there's anything say natural about a lot of the syncs that can be culled and collected regarding things like 9-11. I think those in a way are like what Gary Lockman, the way he put it, the ex Blondie drummer who turned into you know... He's a very perceptive historian and he writes about esoteric topics of people in the occult, but he referred to magic several times as induced synchronicity. And that magicians quote-unquote are in some cases trying to induce that

13:20 Well, we have to sort of think about what do we mean? What's our standard for what counts as natural. Is what counts as natural that which does not require any human intervention it would just happen on its own? That's one way we could mean it or it could mean it's within the power of human beings to do that's another way of understanding it but of course those two are slightly different and I actually think synchronicity has a foot in both of those camps I think there are some synchronicities that just sort of by the natural course of events, just unfold. And I also believe that there are other synchronicities that are induced in that way using human or even possibly extra-human if you like

14:01 agency of some kind. And again, this is all just sort of slapdash but this is the direction that I would take a part two of that Twilight language. This is one of the questions that I'd really like to explore yeah and in my mind when i say natural i do think something that can happen an undirected way like, that license plate in front of you know the cia wasn't reading our emails together knowing we were gonna do interview and then placing weird things in front of you to get your paranoid i think it like a force like gravity not repeat myself too much but A force like gravity is something that is there and then it can be played against by human beings. So,

14:46 That's how I think of synchronicity. It is a magnetism, a gravity to certain potent things that exists and does happen on its own but then it's also a force that can be played with like Lego blocks you know? You can see that the Lego blocks come together in certain ways and then you can actually do all kinds of things with them if your skilled enough so i think it is kind of both and but we We talk to good amount about michael hoffman last time as well as jim brandon and i read the rebirth of pan recently he has a great section. On the animal guys about cryptids that defy logic and disappear suddenly like the one i saw did any notes that,

15:29 Some even leave physical evidence, obviously. But oddly footprints that are way deeper and heavier than any animal should be I never heard that before but he also talks about legends of magic rocks that kind of move on their own the mound builders i mean when this book came out nobody was talking about the mound builders and this is where it kinda relates to our conversations he gets into the number 23 Which he notes 23 and 33 seem like key ley line numbers and seemed to weave in an out of these sorts of stories for example.

16:05 dates of cryptid and paranormal sightings this is so crazy he says, sightings of a phantom airship in england began on march twenty third nineteen oh nine on december twenty third an enormous cigar shaped craft with lights and wings and a brilliant searchlight appeared over rhode island some decades later the airship metamorphosed into sleek spaceships but continued to appear on the 23rd of the month. He goes on to say, The first Loch Ness Monster newspaper article was in 1933. The loch itself is twenty-three miles long and one of the most well known appearances, the sighting of Bill Wright happened on June 23, 1978

16:46 That's the kind of thing I love. I've never heard anyone else try to make something of a numerical pattern, two strange sightings like that. It's amazing! Yes well...I'm trying to track along with you here let me just go slightly back just for a second back to your comment about the force and you compared it to magnetism Of course that would bring immediately in Antoine Mesmer and his work on so-called mesmerism that led into hypnotism, that then you could argue led into certain of the central intelligence agencies' mind control processes. And that is kind of riffing on this idea of the Lego blocks where there's this sort of natural potential in some techniques or whatever in the human mind. There's a kind of capacity to fit it together with certain ideas or however you want

17:40 Now, the license plate idea. Hoffman in a post that Lauren Coleman once made on his weblog, the point Hoffman made was things like the license plate in his opinion obviously they don't have the same importance but he thought that we have to be careful to filter and he called for filtering process whereby we would be able to discriminate synchronicities that are due to our peculiar human way of looking at the world If you look at a rock formation, you might see a face. Psychologists will say well that's because human beings are adept at... You just look at random occurrence and you'll find some pattern there so there is that cautionary note but now moving on to the cryptids, the interesting thing there is just like there could be two possible ways of thinking of synchronicity at least I mean maybe there's a million of them but at least

18:36 There's also a kind of duality in terms of explanation for cryptids and that kinda phenomenon. On the one hand, you've got people like what was it? Bernard Huvelmans or Loren Coleman is cut out of this cloth where he is a cryptozoologist right Cryptids to him, for the most part are animals that if you could handle one or access it you know you could take blood samples and it would have tissues and organs and so on. Or on the other hand Jim Brandon's work focused on sort of a more arcane explanation that their manifestations of some what he referred to throughout the book is at the pan force

19:17 Now, of course there you could ask the question is this psychological? Is it spiritual right and he doesn't come down definitively on one or other side of that but those two ideas as that we're dealing with hidden animals when that just has a really heavy step in his grade at running from humans and keeping its existence unknown versus this manifestation of a pan force. Then as you say he brings in numerology For the video that, and we were contemplating talking about what 10 mystery men or 10 secret add-ups. And I realized in re listening to it that it was my older son who actually delivered the narration for that in case people are wondering like hey that's not the same guy That's actually my son well many years ago actually now when he was very much younger

20:10 I had a script for numerology, and the basic premise of it was to sketch out for example like the number 23. Okay well Jim Brandon has always referred to that as a 14 number and the obvious reason for that is it goes back to Robert Anton Wilson and his Illuminatus trilogy where he actually identifies... And he wrote in 40 and times an article on the 23 phenomena. That was Robert Anton Wilson Discordianism. and that whole chaos kind of wavelength there too. But the number 23 has a definite Fortean hue to it versus say, the number 33 which you might think has a very definite Masonic orientation and it's interesting that say the number 13 which is often thought to be bad luck but the way that Jim Brandon always phrased it to me was that it was just a momentous number. It was a very heavy number or weighty number

21:08 It's bad luck the way that, say some practitioners of Jewish mysticism believe that you shouldn't use the name of God because it's too potent for you. You know what I mean? Your going to hurt yourself if you use it so you have to use a euphemism Adonai or whatever but that's reserved for the addicts That's kind of the way 13 is handled The wavelength of numerology is one that, and the point I brought up about my son was actually had him record this video years ago. But it was unusable because you know God love them. I'm trying to involve him in the projects for various reasons but I have the notes for that numerology thing and you triggered that in my mind at night time to resurrect that

21:54 So, Jim Brandon was talking about the 14 aspect of some of those numbers and that would relate back to the work of Robert Anton Wilson for sure. Mm-hmm! And it's funny that Michael Jordan's number was 23 seems potent also this is crazy but this book was obviously written many years ago and The main movie about seeing a pattern and things and descent into paranoia because of it is jim carries the number twenty three. And he also truman show jim carrey's got an odd career but i also want to bring this up too because, jim writes about the quote ufo cult of marshall applewhite and bonnie lou nettles which, the name i was like marshall applewhite i know that name.

22:45 That's because it's heaven's gate he doesn't say that in the piece but. It became known as heavens gate and the ritual suicide everybody knows about that happened in the late nineties but rebirth of pan came out over a decade before that so it's just interesting that you touched on them well before they become so infamous and the quote in the book says, then there was the ufo cult of marshal apple white and bonnie lew nettles Emerging in california the two had meetings to gather recruits for a scheduled ufo flight beyond the stars when they finally dropped out of sight nineteen seventy five after meeting at walled port oregon, they took with them no less and no more than twenty three volunteers for the passage to mcgonigal.

23:28 afterward a number of cattle were found mutilated in the area man i'd really love to know more about that situation just the things that heavens gate was up to before the big. Events as you could call it and just mcgoniage one of those interesting topics like this sky city just weird. This line in the book almost makes it seem like they took twenty three volunteers to mcgoniage and disappeared, but clearly we know they didn't disappear then. But do you know much about that? The situation with these people before it became Heaven's Gate? I can't say that I do. I'd have to review that portion. When you mentioned Magonia of course, that should automatically bring to mind Jacques Vallée's Passport To Magonia book and Jim Brandon is both analytical but also quite intuitive the way

24:26 James Shelby Downard was, so his fixing on those individuals is as you say it's quite astounding. The Heavens Gate moniker is interesting because gate is one of those words that has I mean its attached to just what Watergate and China gate and Iran gate and Russia gate and you got all the political stuff Stargate which is another enthusiasm of Jim Brandon this idea of a stargate There was a movie of questionable, maybe cinematic merit but that has quite interesting aspects of that. When Trump just after his inauguration he announced some $500 billion over the next few years devoted to artificial intelligence under the name Stargate. That was what he named the program so gate as a word. Of course then you can get into Gates like Bill Gates and Robert Gates of the CIA

25:26 I mean, there's just a bunch and I have notes for that as well. But in terms of Applewhite... So I can't speak to that case in particular but there are parallels by my recollection of say Nexium or some of the things that have been in the news and then that brings in the question of who is backing which is one of the things I guess Jim taught me is preeminent when you want to look at something and try to understand it. one of the first questions you have to ask is, who's paying for it? So in the case of Nexium for instance, the involvement of Sarah and Claire Bronfman is quite telling because the Bronfmans go back to the Seagram whiskey slash gin dynasty. And by the way they didn't start that they bought it I believe around the time of prohibition from the Seagram family and they've leveraged that

26:27 Edgar Bronfman was the head for a long time at the World Jewish Congress. The Bronfman family helped to fund the state of Israel, so you get into a lot of connections... Actually I think the World Jewish Congress also involves Ronald Lauder of the Estei-Lauder I know one of the things on our menu was to talk about spiritual advisors, but when you think about the financial backing Benjamin Netanyahu would not be where he is now without the financial backing of the Lauder family. And so there's kind of an interesting overlap but when we think about the nexus say of organized crime intelligence and some of these wealthy financiers

27:17 Les Wexner is an example, you know who was the backer of Epstein. One of one of right along with maybe the whole country of Israel and Mossad And I mean who knows but if we don't make that point there will be comments yeah Right exactly now that's a great caveat and of course You know Epstein himself According to certain articles, you know he was getting funding or at least passing it through JP Morgan. And of course he himself came out a bear sterns so it's not like he had nothing but when you think about how do these families sometimes and how did these individuals get their initial seed money? I think back to the Bush family who got their money from the Union Pacific Pyramids

28:01 It was the Harrimans who backed the Bushes initially, and then obviously the Bush family was able to leverage that to a certain extent. But that story is common. They almost never self-made in the way it's represented sometimes in media reports. To Applewhite in particular, it is interesting that Jim was able to zero in on them and especially that the word gate... Yeah! ...was later associated with What just interesting that he wrote this book mentions the number twenty three being so important in some of the most potent examples like the movie and michael jordan happened after the book so i just find that to be further evidence that you might have been on something and a lot of those appearances of cryptids on those dates it's like what is that about

28:47 The cryptic phenomenon should not be read in on what the man made date is so that it maybe it's a consciousness thing it gets weird but yeah let's jump to that thing about. The occult consultants of today's elite this is something I asked you about last time because we hear so much about these old examples john d and queen elizabeth yeah great people long time ago had occult consultant straight i'm happy to hear that But let's talk about today and a lot of times today we just don't know. And there is a lot of overlap with the financial backing to just another point about that, John Patash wrote a great book about a couple things but one of the threads in it is how The American universities all the big ivy league universities were basically funded by the black market drug trade the international drug trade and a lot of these universities still have

29:44 halls and quads named after these figures. And they kind of erased the history of what built them up, but you know it's all like East India Company type stuff. Right? The Forbes family was involved in the opium I mean this was the opium trade that we got China hooked on opium as part of the Opium Wars and the Forbes family comes out of this, the Coolidge family comes out of this, many of them were donors. But then the other piece to that is a lot of other universities are simply land grants from state universities or often land grants for universities like MIT they're funded because MIT and other of these they used to train you know

30:24 when people wanted to find coal, you need geologists to find coal. You need geologists to find oil so these scientifically directed institutions like MIT were supposed to be the ones that trained the geologists to go out and help the oil companies find oil deposits. So in other words behind every fortune is a crime. Go ahead. No I love that! That's a great T-shirt Yes, coming back to occult consultants for today's elite circles. When I asked you before you mentioned that you do know some names but you didn't have the working list in front of you? I told you i'd like to revisit it did you get time to look into that so we could elaborate on that a little bit yeah So I have a couple of examples but just to kind of prime the pump a little bit I do want to make the point

31:16 We can think of this as occult advisors, but it's under the larger category just spiritual advisor. And what's interesting about that is say Noam Chomsky he wrote two books I mean he has written a million books but he has written two books that are very well known regarding what he calls propaganda model or the propaganda system. The first one is manufacturing consent and he has stated in numerous places that that's a phrase Walter Lippmann used Walter Lippmann being a Wilsonian liberal who was one of the early people along with Edward Bernays and Harold Laswell and others who started propaganda, what used to be called that. Now it's called public relations but the second book that Chomsky wrote was called Necessary Illusions and he credits... Chomsky says that's a phrase that comes out of a theologian so-called named Reinhold Niebuhr and Niebuhr was referred to as The Establishment Theologian

32:11 And this guy was evidently advising. very connected politicians. And as a matter of fact, when I was trying to reacquaint myself with some of this it looks like Barack Obama... I mean Niebuhr was long dead and didn't check his biographical dates but Barack Obama supposedly said that his favorite philosopher was Niebuhr. Well okay if you look at analyses of various speeches by George W Bush so the point that i'm making is this idea of spiritual advice, and guess what Niebuhr is basically saying. Well what does he mean by necessary illusions? Well to hear Chomsky tell it he's basically saying look there are the elite controllers of opinion and then there are the masses. The masses would never go along with some of things that you and I as elites know we have to do yakety-yak so you have to use necessary illusions well this goes all the way back to Plato

33:07 So in the Republic, the idea of the noble lie. This is what arguably some of the neoconservatives cut their teeth on is this idea...so anyway just to prime the pump spiritual advisors we could get into people like that or Here's another one of historical importance. This is Henry A. Wallace, who was one of President FDR Franklin Delano Roosevelt's vice presidents. Of course, FDR won four times and I think he had three different vice presidents. The first one I think was Nance. I'd have to check it or...but the second was Wallace

33:48 And the third, of course was Truman. And the reason why if I understand right Wallace was kicked to the curb was partly because it's quite interesting. Truman was, I believe on the ticket with Roosevelt the last run so Roosevelt wins in 44 for the fourth time and then he dies in 45 and Truman takes over after having been vice president only for a very short time And then there's, of course the interesting run with Dewey that the Chicago Tribune reported that Dewey actually wins. But the fact is Wallace Mike thought was like well why was Wallace? Well there was a scandal with Wallace and what they called The Guru Letters which was Wallaces involvement with a Russian mystic by the name of Nicholas Rorick or sometimes it's pronounced Rarik

34:38 I've heard that name. Yeah, R-O-E-R-I-C-H and the guy Roerich was a painter he painted background scenes for Stravinsky for i think The Rite of Spring there was a well known production of The Rite Of Spring where Roerich paintings were part of that backdrop He did other paintings you know but his mystical side he was connected to Wallace and evidently was giving him spiritual advice and Wallace of course was giving him diplomatic cover. Rourke was somehow put up by the US government to travel through Southeast Asia, supposedly under the pretext of looking for grasses that were drought resistant to help combat the Dust Bowl

35:22 during the Great Depression and all that kind of thing. But Rorick, evidently according to some analysts like Louis Buff Perry a cryptologist who I tried to make contact with him once and was unable to do it but Perry thinks...and it's quite interesting that Rorick was actually trying to create an Asian union along the lines of what later developed into the European Union. But I say all that to say that Wallace, here's Wallace and bear in mind if Wallace had been the vice president when FDR died he would have been the President United States! And yet his connection to Rorick basically almost it implies that he was taking

36:01 spiritual direction from the guy, like the way that Joan Quigley used to give spiritual directions say to the Reagan family. Even to the point of setting dates for when Reagan would or times a day when Reagan would sign a treaty or you know what I mean make his appearances now it's arguable that Reagan really did not have a whole lot of agency and it was a joke that he slept through cabinet meetings His advisors really were the ones calling the shots, especially George H.W. Bush, the former director of Central Intelligence. But here's another interesting connection with the spiritual advisor wavelength—one of the ones that I would definitely write about

36:45 is a guy by the name, I believe he was a Dutch extraction born in South Africa just like the Musk family. Part of the Musk family comes from that orientation but Sir Lawrence Vanderpost and this guy, he's almost not known but he was connected to Prince Charles, now King Charles III. And when this guy died, Van der Post, it was revealed after the fact that he was a sex predator. He was a Jungian but he went on safaris with the then-Prince Charles. He was an advisor, political advisor to Margaret Thatcher, the British prime minister during the 80's about the time when Reagan was president of United States

37:30 The guy, Vanderpost was connected to a group called the Bloomsbury set which was kind of loosely slung group of artists and political figures. who were challenging quote unquote Victorian British morality, but they included people like the writer Virginia Woolf and the economist John Maynard Keynes. Keynes of course was the guy who was instrumental at Bretton Woods so installing that new monetary system going from Bretton Woods until Nixon essentially started to unwind it Around 1968, he pulled the US off the gold standard completely. Closed the gold window in 71. But anyway Maynard Keynes connection to... And Keynes by the way was interested in alchemy

38:19 he purchased the alchemical manuscripts from Isaac Newton. And of course, Isaac Newton well known in physics but it turns out he actually wrote more about alchemy than he did about physics if you can believe that. But the second thing about Prince Charles King Charles III and by the way his name always has struck me as somewhat weird because the first king Charles of course was a steward as was the second and the first guy was beheaded so you'd think that I don't know how that works if you're a royal, but i'm not so sure. I'd taken him after a king who was executed but that's what of course happened to Charles the first by virtue of entering into that commonwealth But one of the other things about charles and this gets actually this is a tie-in with

39:08 the video on the Mediterranean islands, was that Charles was evidently a frequent visitor to Mount Athos or Holy Mount Athos. Not an island but a peninsula northwest Greece the Halkidiki or Chalcidiki Peninsula, and it's a male-only peninsula. The whole thing is like an open air monastery but the thing is its Greek Orthodox and Charles is now the head quote unquote of the Anglican Church so that led to speculation that he was converting to orthodoxy but here's another interesting thing is Mount Athos is supposed to be the repository for one of the monasteries there for a quote Johannite manuscript

39:52 that was once in the possession of the Knights Templar. Now, I don't know the details of this but Johannism can mean a lot of different things but one of the things that is sometimes floated under that name is that John the Baptist was actually the Messiah according to some of these Johannite cults and you remember maybe that the Knight's Templars supposedly worshipped a head? That's one of the stories that they worshiped a severed head Well, some of the idea there is that it might have been the head of John the Baptist. And then if that's the case—if that manuscript... If that is the flavor of Johannes and I'm not for sure that it is but if

40:30 and they have that manuscript at Mount Athos. Well, that's quite an interesting tie-in with the Knights Templar. And by the way here is another interesting thing Charles has a habit of being connected to people who when those people die it's revealed that they're sex predators I mean Jimmy Savile is the other one. Jimmy Savile the media personality who during his lifetime he was knighted? I think he was knighted personally by Charles. I might be mistaken about that It might have been Elizabeth He was knighted around 1990, and after his death it came out that he's probably the most prolific sex criminal out of Britain that they've ever produced. I mean you know so its like the royal family has a habit of shielding sex predators Prince Andrew being not the least to that in terms of his connection with Epstein So all these connections just

41:24 They just ramify. Jimmy Savile, by the way came out of Radio Luxembourg and here's another interesting thing The Bank of Credit and Commerce International, the BCCI this was one of the scandals in the 1990s The bank was founded By a Sufi And the guy's name was Abedi A-B-E-D-I This guy financier claimed to be a Sufi, which is the mystical some would say even Gnostic strand within Islam. And the guy thought of his bank it said that when he would give speeches say to shareholders, he would pepper them with phrases about how God instituted the bank or how the bank is doing God's work in the world and so on and so forth. Well BCCI Of course

42:18 laundered money for the CIA, for MI6. It was connected to Saudi intelligence, it was connected to Pakistani intelligence. They funded Saddam Hussein and they funded Gaddafi you know they funded Abu Nadal, the quote Palestinian terrorist which ties back into the Epstein slash Lauder slash Bronfman funding of the state of Israel. And so, I mean, the number of connections here is just crazy and Sufism by the way is really prevalent believe it or not in London not least of which through a guy named John Godolphin Bennett or JG Bennett. Bennett was connected to G.I. Gergiev and his fourth way but Bennett

43:06 I actually wrote about him for a video presentation titled, 10 Occultists Who Were Accused Spies. Bennett was a fixture of that and Bennett was connected to Sufism as was this Abedi. Well okay The BCCI was registered in Luxembourg, same as where Jimmy Savile got his start. The BCCI also had branches of course in London and I believe in Karachi but BCCI was connected to the Adnan Khashoggi the arms dealer and Khashoggi was connected to Dodie Fayed and Fayed of course was Princess Diana's boyfriend

43:44 who both he and she lost their lives in that car crash in the 90s, in Paris under that bridge which was supposedly precipitated by them running from paparazzi or whatever. But the fact is all these connections are kind of lurking in the background now I've lost... All good i was just gonna let you go but a lot of stuff so you started with rohrich and ended with gertrude which is funny because i know about warwick through gertrude if i believe and blavatsky, add to look it up cuz i was pretty sure this was the thing but so during the nineteen twenty seven expedition to central asia the russian painter an explorer.

44:26 Nicholas Rorick moved towards the Gobi Desert in Mongolia crossing the Kwais Dam salt marsh. Traditions reported by Madame Blavatsky and Gurchev, as well as the tales of local folklore said it was the site of an ancient sea within which it was handed down that advanced civilizations now forgotten and legendary cities now buried by sands had developed." Yeah Shambhala is where he's looking for That's just another thing this is another theme where the elite. Well tell us in school books that were as advanced as we've ever been and history is just a pile of rocks and then we find that they do care about these old legends and trying to find all the artifacts and that sort of stuff and, of course you gave us some great examples there took it back a couple decades

45:17 When I was preparing for this, not that there isn't plenty of talk about Trump but One thing, it's so interesting the Trump-Roy Cohn relationship. I mean we're not going to go super deep into it here but just the blackmail king and then here is his protege and now he acts like he might have a blackmail file? And then you got his MIT uncle who looked at the Nikola Tesla material when Tesla died and said oh there's nothing to this but Trump has referenced his super bright genius uncle and things that haven't been released like he's made references like that

45:52 And then you got Ingersoll Lockwood writing those books about the adventures of little Baron Trump and then The Last President. Now what's interesting is there are other cycle models like Martin Armstrong, The Economist who has this computer Socrates that is very good at predictive cyclical models and there's other things out there to suggest that the United States might divorce in the next five to 10 years that we might've had our last election with 50 states as one previous guest of mine put it. I think that's too crazy to believe because change doesn't happen that fast, it feels like we're already halfway there. It's just crazy. I can't imagine that being true but then you have with this tariff situation

46:38 there are states that are like hey can we say we're not participating in that which is like the first step to being like our government is separate from the federal government which is you know it's right there that maybe you could see california split off or something but regardless were talking about spiritual occult influences on a person so i was lik Well, who is Trump's spiritual advisor? Well it's Paula White. So I didn't know anything about this Paula Michelle White Cain person and of course there is what's publicly available and then there's the subtext well she is an evangelical televangelist but interesting things in her background that hit on some of the same old stuff so

47:25 She was born in Topilo, Mississippi and her parents owned a toy and craft store. Donald and Myrna Fur's marriage began... That's her parents. Their marriage began to fail when she was only five years old. White's mother left Topilo and took her to Memphis. That's a highly charged city in a lot of the stuff that Downard talks about but Her separation from her husband and his subsequent suicide drove White, her brother and mother into poverty. White's mother became an alcoholic while she worked. Caregivers looked after her daughter. White had said that she was sexually and physically abused between the ages of six and 13

48:05 by many different people on different occasions. White has said that during that time she suffered from bulimia, White's mother married a two-star admiral in the US Navy ding ding ding when she was nine years old her family moved to Washington DC her stepfather was stationed at the National Navy Medical Center and funny enough she started a church founded in Tampa So you have this woman named Paula White who becomes the White House advisor. Her father's name is Donald and she's Donald Trump's White House faith office person, I mean it's all in her name and then the child abuse and then her mother marries someone who is in the Navy. The Navy is like outside of the CIA probably second sketchiest organization and her mother marries this guy when she was nine, she says she was abused up to 13

48:57 I don't know but it's just so weird that someone with such a background in name and the themes that circle the elite is appointed to be like the spiritual head in his first term. I just found that interesting her dad's name is Donald, her last name is White she's the white house faith office advisor and a life of child abuse its like alot of people who were abused as children for a decade commit suicide and die on the street, we never know their name. Something weird happens here to some of these people." Well Oprah has a similar story about abuse and that kind of thing I mean not that she's unique in that way but obviously her rise is meteoric but here are couple other things you're right naval intelligence again another enthusiasm Jim Brandon inherited and in particular one other recent videos that I did I mentioned the fact that when

49:50 Woodrow Wilson had his stroke circa 1919 and his second wife Edith basically took over access and somehow became a gatekeeper, maybe making decisions. It's still not known the other key figure in that was guy by the name of I think Robert Travers Grayson and he was naval connected. I mean, the guy was a Navy physician, Wilson's main guy but here is another thing you mentioned just in that rehearsal and Paula White by the way her brand of evangelicalism is prosperity there is something called the prosperity gospel and the basic upshot of this and it's articulated by people like

50:26 Creflo Dollar and Joyce Meyer, other people who the prosperity gospel just in a nutshell is the idea that if you have enough faith then things are gonna go well for you. They'll go well for you in terms of money they'll go well for you in terms of success and it's not all that dissimilar from Rhonda Burns The Secret which is obviously a culmination of things like Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People And I'm Gonna Build Something Too because If you think about the connections there, Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich. Well who's the other one? It's Norman Vincent Peale and The Power of Positive Thinking so you wanna list off Trump advisors. Trump and Ivana were married by Norman Vincent Peale. Trump was essentially a devotee of Roy Cohn who taught him The Art Of The Deal and Norman Vincent Peale who taught him essentially that it's the power of positive thinking so it's this idea

51:24 i'm a winner it's the way that he presents himself to marketing part of it. Comes out of the playbook of vincent peale and vincent peal you could say is kind of a combination of what they call new thought which comes out of mine science, which comes out of mesmerism and we just talked about mesmerism in the connection with the CIA. But Paul DeWitt, here's an interesting thing and this is just me reacting to what you said. You mentioned The Toy Store. You remember in the movie, Kubrick's movie Eyes Wide Shut? They end the movie in a toy store and they show somewhat suggestively the daughter being led off to the side. I have notes to go into FAO Schwartz, right? FAO Schwartz which is the company. And this is a very suggestive

52:13 the caveat is i'm not accusing anybody of wrongdoing you know this is just for informational purposes but fao shorts is extraordinarily connected and that company they're showing up now you didn't say paul white's family owned an f a shorts but my point is just that the connection with the choice or rather interesting But yeah, Trump also has associated himself with people like I think the guy's name was Robert Jeffress. You know a Baptist this probably was facilitated by Pence when they were trying to give the impression that

52:49 They were just respectable, conservative evangelicals. But really you could think that Trump's orientation is Machiavellian per Roy Cohn's influence slash new thought slash mind science meaning as Rhonda Byrne puts it in The Secret your thoughts are things they manifest reality you essentially speak reality into existence well In the video that I did on alchemy, top 10 gold making alchemists. The concluding portion of that talks about how the Federal Reserve has essentially and the Bank of England has essentially done the creation of gold out of lead if you like by creating notice the word fiat currency

53:33 speaking into reality. What is our entire monetary system if not speaking into reality? And Trump has plugged in on that wavelength, so yeah, in terms of spiritual and just another point about Rorick not to derail the interesting tangents regarding Paul White and all of the sinks that you know with respect her name but yeah, the Shambhala aspect of things ties in with Agartha or what Blavatsky referred to as the Ascended Masters, the idea that there's a group of the Great White Brotherhood, the Mahatmas or whatever that run the things behind-the-scenes. And in addition to that Rorik claimed he was in possession

54:18 of a stone, the Stone of Destiny. I got into this a little bit in the video on the Coronation Stone because stone lore and again Charles III was the most recent person to sit on this stone as part of the coronation procedure they sit on a rock This goes all the way back to, man I want to say maybe the 13th century or possibly before. But it's this idea that there is a stone that if you're in possession of it gives you power and one story was that its a stone that was knocked off of Lucifer's coronet that he wore in heaven when Michael the archangel kicked him out of heaven He fell to earth and his crown essentially broke And a piece of it fell There are all kinds of lore that spins out of this

55:06 the rock that Islam, the Kaaba spins out of that or the fact that one of three powerhouse firms of finance in the world today Vanguard State Street and BlackRock. So now you have a whole black rock lore anyway I know now i'm just spinning up but no Paul White your right I mean so yeah if you were going to name Trump's spiritual advisors he is one these people who has a bunch of them But yeah, Roy Cohn would be one even if he's an atheist. He is still a spiritual advisor Norman Vincent Peale Paul White Jeffress I probably have a few others that he was associated with but

55:47 Wild stuff. I love just sitting back and hearing you go through a thread of many different connections in a very tangled web, I don't even know what to call this episode now but- I'll leave that to you because you did a great job with your other titles and that's...I don't envy you in that case. Yes How do you summarize? I know it's tough I will say, Jim Brandon. You gotta come talk to me buddy! I love your work and i would love to make it happen someday. I don't hear very many Jim Brandon interviews out here on the internet these days. I mean podcasts obviously blew up way after his time but you would expect him to do the rounds because a lot of people would probably love to have that work resurrected yeah To know that the legacy lives on...I told him and he's very self-effacing

56:36 the mentorship, I worked very closely with him. But the thing that I actually thought of and I know he probably kind of rolls his eyes maybe if i say it but you know there was the movie The Mask Of Zorro where Anthony Hopkins is playing Zorro and the whole purpose of the movie was he's training a replacement Antonio Banderas at some early stage of the movie Anthony Hopkins says to Antonio Banderas' character, he says there is a saying. A very old saying that when the student is ready the master will appear and that was my experience with Jim Brandon by meeting with him I even quoted that to him of course you know but I really do think his training was extraordinarily important for me in so many different ways

57:30 What we're speaking about now is one part of that. Heck yeah, well I personally am ready so Jim if you want to appear anytime I love it so i know where were wrapping up here but I gotta ask this question So there's a guy interviewed before Nathan Isaac he runs the podcast called penny Royal haven't talked to him in many years have been trying to get back and touch with them because now I'm super interested in the downer stuff and he was for a time too He did a deep dive into Downard and his conclusion is that Downard was a fabrication of sorts. Now, I know I've seen his picture and I know I've heard his voice but Nathan Isaac thinks that

58:12 People who are way smarter than downer to kind of gave him his ideas and used him as a public face for interesting ideas that they wanted to see but not take on themselves is evidence of this is that, never wrote a book alone and isaac. Nathan isaac he hired a private investigator to go and try to find out more about downer than apparently the private investigators conclusion is that this is consistent with. a person who is kind of a cutout of sorts. And that is such a weird claim, I know nothing about it except that I read it on his website recently and I can't seem to get in touch with him to ask him more about it but what do you think about that? Obviously Ilana Freeland wrote the biography of Downard and Downards work seems to be kinda shepherded along by other people... You never met them though did ya?

59:10 I believe he died in March of 1998, and that was several years before I really had any interest in a awakening if you like to say it that way of any of this stuff. I never did meet him however I have interacted with Michael Hoffman going on 25 years. It's got to be...I've been aware of his work for that long early on I would have been just amongst a lot of people trying to reach out to him via email but I've asked him this question directly. I've asked Jim Brandon this question directly, the answer that they give me is that Donner was a real guy. I mean first of all... You've asked this question? I find it odd you would even ask- Why were you curious about why would you think such a thing? Right because Hoffman on his website

1:00:00 many years back, and he's had several websites. The first one was you know Hoffman-info.com and then it became Revisionist History so I don't know what permutation of the website or if it's still available but I remember him addressing this somewhere on the website so for the first time It was not like I had thought oh Downard can't be real. It was rather that I saw that question tackled on his website somewhere And he responded by saying He Was Real And the answer I've gotten from both the two, and by the way it's not that Downard never wrote a book on his own. It's rather that he never published it on his own but who has published a book on their own? If you've published a book maybe now through Amazon you could just write it and put it up there yourself but if you got a publisher your not publishing the book on your own nobody publishes a book on their own they all have to be edited

1:00:50 And in some cases, the editing is quite substantial. And in some cases I think with respect to Downard it's probably the case that the editing that was done was for the most part for readability and for style, and possibly to restructure some of the points that were delivered in ways that might have presented them. Like today, I mean if we were to go back over what we talked about, and I were to say let's publish this just as it is probably would make sense to bring together various strands like if I say oh I forgot about this and add on something about Epstein or whatever It would probably make sense to group all the stuff together And so I think some of

1:01:29 that was done has that as a very plausible reason. But again, yeah I never did meet Downer but I take it that of the group of people who were closely associated with him at least two of them that i've had and by the way Jim Brandon I have literally checked this in my email He and I go all the way back to 2012. So, I've literally interacted with him going on 13 years. I've interacted with Hoffman for over 20. being straight with me. It's a shame that Downard's files were essentially, I think they were left to his niece and i believe that the files ended up being not preserved because the niece didn't have... Here we go! Yeah isn't it a shame? It's a real shame and the thing is Jim almost

1:02:26 took them but he didn't have at the time a means of retrieving them because Shelby Downer traveled in an air stream, had all this stuff mobile and essentially it was just like hey do you have a place for this air stream? And at the time wherever in the world wherever in the country he was Jim did not have the resources to get it to keep it to store it. To go through it and its real shame But also Richard Spence, I think we may have even talked about him. He was a professor and even though or still is a professor he wrote an investigative look into Downard's life himself if you look up Richard Spence and Spence he concluded that while he couldn't

1:03:06 And he went back into genealogical records and all that stuff. His opinion, and I think an academic is probably better suited to this task than a private investigator because a private investigator is going to specialize in what's happening... If Downard were alive somewhere today you might hire a private investigator to find him but if you wanna know whether somebody in the past existed you wanna hire a genealogist, you wanna hire a historian. That's what Spence is and Spence concluded that he likely did exist Although he does say that some of the claims that Downard makes, like he's not saying yeah. Yeah, he existed and everything that he said has my seal of approval because he admitted in a rather funny part

1:03:48 first exploration, Spence that I read about Downard. He said his Carnivals of Life and Death, that's the title of the book that Downard wrote first he said was so absurd to him when he first read it then he just threw the book against a wall you know? He was reading it and was so upset by the claims but he kept picking it up and he said there is just something compelling about it and he had to look into Downard and I'm pretty sure about the name of the professor. I actually talked to the guy a few years back as well I can't remember why, but it had something to do with Downard and I asked him something. But my impression is that Spence concluded that he really did exist and I would simply put it to you that... And I don't doubt for one second that Isaac... Because let's face it if we're standing on the outside looking in

1:04:36 We have no, I always say this. If you were to see a UFO walking out of your house right now then you tell me about it. Right? I mean...I've developed a relationship with you to a certain extent these last few times. I trust that you weren't lying to me but at the same time i might go yeah but maybe the light was bad maybe he got hit on the head maybe he was under the influence right So I wouldn't necessarily just accept the claim, even though I would accept at face value your honesty. But for claims that are in the past, we are certainly on the outside looking in. So I don't begrudge the antecedent skepticism one bit and if he hired a private investigator and the investigator said...I would simply in response to that say maybe a private investigator isn't the person you'd really want to look into it and if you want a fuller picture look at the work of somebody like Spence talk to somebody like Downard

1:05:33 I'm sorry talk to somebody like Hoffman, you know who's open and if it you know Like just ask him. I mean, I think hoffmann has been pretty available Now, of course you can say well he's lying but that to me carries no weight. I've known Hoffman for too long to say that he's just conducted a massive fraud on this point for decades. Right well you know conspiracy people gonna conspiracy and they're gonna wonder and i should maybe look into this more because Richard Spence... He co-wrote Empire the Wheel with my guy Walter Bosley so I have it in there but I'm glad I asked because I am just intrigued by the fact that other people have asked this question. It's just odd, but man what a whirlwind really had a good time talking to you so in terms of trying to find some place to land on this crazy ride remind people just about your ongoing work where they can clue into what you got going on and follow the sub stack i think which is the main thing you're doing now

1:06:35 Yeah, that's right. And the YouTube but and the other thing about Spence I think Spence might have done the introduction for stalking The Great Whore which is a book that was based on a microfilm that by the way Jim Brandon had gave it to Adam go rightly And it was a massive undertaking. I mean, so Go Rightly deserves all the credit for that going through that editing it digitizing it creating a publishable work but if I'm not mistaken, I think Spence might have written the introduction to it. I might be wrong about that. I think you're right. It came up Yeah, but yeah on my work you know the YouTube channel relevant one is called The Synchromistic and the sub stack I think it's Matthew J Bell dot sub stack. And I think once you land there... My other son set it up for me initially and you know I didn't necessarily choose the sexiest so to speak URL or whatever

1:07:29 Once you land on it, I think I do call it the synchromistic so you'll know where you are. At this point, I'm really still just trying to build the initial audience and everything that I publish right now is free available to anybody. I haven't published anything there yet that has been restricted to paid subscribers and I am not trying to put the paid subscribers out by any means. I appreciate those few people who have sprung for that. And I think there might be a thing with Substack once you publish it and it's been out for awhile, that they paywall automatically? I'm not really sure about that. Haven't looked at it but in the recent one that I did Twilight Language, I even open up comments to anybody. You're welcome because I view this kind of as if you like crowdsourcing to a certain extent like I welcome feedback

1:08:14 But yeah, I am interested not just in the intuitive and the symbolic side of things when we notice patterns but also to be honest the philosophy if you like because the thing that I think is what we also need are some serious thinkers. Some people who can really take a look at this kind of phenomena and try to ask the question what the hell is going on? And I think that this is what i have tried, not that im unique. Michael Hoffman has done this and to a certain extent almost everybody who's taken up a pen about this has ventured into it to a certain extent

1:08:52 but I've tried to maybe, in some of my recent work. I try to keep my foot in both camps. Both in the camp of like you mentioned the DC Sinks okay that's just if you like just a catalogue of sinks around a certain event that's what that is and I have other videos that are like that then I have videos or at least written pieces so far that are more philosophical deep dives for example in The Twilight Language piece I mean you can get ready for it but its like I talk about metaphysical realism of a platonic sort and of a rustic alien sort metaphysical conceptualism, I talk about nominalism. And then I ask the question if you're a nominalist, if you're realist how would you explain Twilight Language and that's kind of the piece there? Then in between those two are kind of things that my thought was really that I'm trying to create content that is more perennial because let's face it once the DC collision recedes in memory fewer and fewer people are going to be interested in it so like top 10 occultists at all time or top ten Mediterranean islands

1:09:49 My hope is that kind of stuff might hold perennial interest to people and anybody can come to it at any time, and it's not going to be old hat. But I appreciate your body of work being impressive the fact that you've been able to carve out this and it's just ecosystem, I think you referred to it as. It's to be credited and of course he made me laugh heartily about the word asset but of course in this case I don't by any means mean intelligence asset. I'm not saying...I mean that he is a credit, a great value to free thinking people who are interested in the truth and who want a community where they can tap into others and I hope if there is a conference or something

1:10:31 And let me just, you know... If there's an in-person way that people of like mind might be able to meet and I think there is value in that. I think it's underrated and even deemphasized in such a time as we live now where technology has become so ascendant but I think that's sorely needed. It would much appreciated by a number of people when I speak from my circle that kind of thing would be of great interest to some other people with whom I interact. Oh, I love that! Yeah there's just more fuel to have me Act and put some together another thing to add your to do list right no pressure it's fine but i appreciate the kind words are really just ask the questions and try to remember even a fraction of what gets said but. Thank you for your time and all the great research of course i never mentioned this interviews either but lately,

1:11:24 i always offer to make gas a plus account just so they can engage with the comments and lately a lot of people have decided they wanted to do that you did it last time so now maybe i'll say to listeners if you have an actual question. You know, you obviously have his email. We just gave that but if you have an actual question and you want to engage in the plus comments he might pop up there no guarantees but it's a possibility I tried last time because i appreciate the attention and i appreciate you offering your form to me and i truly appreciate everybody who was inspired enough by what they hear whether it was disagreement or agreement there were some lively exchanges

1:12:05 in that forum and I appreciate it. I mean, I really do so people aren't going to agree with everything. I think that's the important part about trying to build a community. It's not to build a bunch of parrots or people who just nod their head at the same time. So If you build it, they will come. I guess if you comment, I will do my best to react to address or comment on everything that is said. Maybe I have to go back now because if there were other comments to that first presentation, I probably haven't seen them but no, I would be happy to interact with people on that forum and I would look forward to hearing people's impressions

1:12:42 reactions and so on. Yeah, well there you have it people awesome Mr Bell I just can't thank you enough i appreciate the fact that we got connected and its worked out so well put in a good word for me with Jim Brandon and I'll talk to you again in the future! I will really look forward to it and I appreciate again that was a great pleasure thank you so much All right, people. That is what I'm talking about! Another great interview with Matthew J Bell quickly becoming a new favorite of mine He goes off in so many interesting directions clearly a ton of knowledge that he has cultivated over years largely just due to curiosity it seems

1:13:26 I was glad we could revisit some of the stuff we missed last time and obviously talk about some stuff that even i was surprised by. I do have a real fondness for the rebirth of Pan, and it's cool to at least talk to a guy who knows the guy... And that would be a bucket list interview for sure! Seems like a very hard Pokemon to catch as the kids say? And I just thought it was so cool that he had so much to say about Overall theme of occult consultants to the ruling class, or spiritual advisors to use a broader term. There is probably a lot to learn by examining that stuff and those connections I hope some people take that even further

1:14:11 But Matthew and I were talking a bit after the show about a few things we got into like was James Shelby Downard, a real person. And again, I never thought he was like a made up person exactly like a pseudonym. I've seen pictures and heard his voice But maybe he was playing a character or maybe he was being given ideas and put up as a bit of front man for a group doing this sort of research, or even trying to be pranksters perhaps. I don't know these are speculations that i read other places but the voice on the Serious Rising CD is definitely different from any of his known associates

1:14:49 And also the part when I was walking through the strange names of places like the Kennedy Mountains and Johnson Mountains, I said there was a part that I couldn't hear very well. Matthew said that he remembers that the other potent name in the mix was Hecate. I can't remember if I said that but it's like Hecate Pass. Clearly another one of those potent gods that we just see bubbling up to the surface...and its weird Also cool to just talk to someone that's even aware of the Serious Rising CD, because that is pretty obscure in its own right. Email him if you want some downer recordings! Anyway really enjoyable even some of the topics I expected to be the main offerings on the table didn't get talked about until we were already an hour in So they're in The Plus Show Things like those mysterious islands of the Mediterranean no-go zones

1:15:42 And the wild story of Scorpius Howard Hughes, Jackie Onassis his father and the Kennedys. We talked a little bit about the Franklin scandal, a little bit about the promise software situation autopsies and coverups and medical examiners in the network and just how these things are done and kept secret We got into CERN a little bit and just a bunch of fun stuff. Great interview, hope you found something to like! And if you only heard the first hour come be a PLUS member 7 day free trial to get ya going huge archive of great stuff all ad-free In higher side news man we got a lot of things in the works actually I'm pretty close to announcing a huge upgrade to the show itself probably the biggest thing i've done since even starting plus

1:16:33 And really there's only a couple of things it could be, right? But chew on that for a little while because this might all be radically different in 30 days time. Don't worry I think I know what i'm doing and if I haven't been vague and confusing enough let me put it this way you have the option to choose for things to be radically different in 30 days time when it comes to the presentation of the show or it can be exactly the same so figure that out But as we do, let's just skip ahead to looking at the plus rating of the last episode. This is the one with Gary Fraun numerology, the occult language spelling maritime law all these things were in the mix I have not seen the rating yet but I would guess it's around a 4.5. I did think it was good but I also thought that conversation came back to how great researcher he is instead of the details of that actual research

1:17:32 It happened enough that I noticed, and I know that people have previously had issues with that sort of thing as listeners. But I think the material is still good. The subject's still good. I think it's going to rank high. Let's take a look and see if... Well, it kind of did 4.3 average but we have a high average so I don't know. I do see comments that talk about what I just said and other comments that say it's their favorite interview in a long time I guess we all like have our own different opinions or something. Well, I hope to bounce back a little higher than that with Mr Bell. I really don't have any doubt and as we do the meetup calendar let's look at that too All right nothing for the next two weeks We're going all the way to May 25th Olympia Washington three magnets brewing company someone tell Ron Patton about that one

1:18:28 May 26th, Eden Terrace Auckland New Zealand Gail Braths Ale House June 1st Huntington Indiana Heartland Harbor also June 1st Champlin Minnesota. It's going down at Elm Creek Brewing Company and then June 8th San Antonio Texas Halcyon Southtown there it is go to higher side meetups.com to find more information about any of those that are near you or make your own and meet some new people in your area over a mutual love of a very obscure, weird show. It's a beautiful thing but alright well I would love to stay longer but i'm going to be on Your Family Thinks I'm Crazy tomorrow and I've got to come up with five under the radar conspiracies or Fortean-ish stories and I only have three right now

1:19:17 But thanks for listening, take care of you and yours. Stay curious and I'll see ya next time! Your move Synchromistic Stagecrafters Twilight Language Speakers And Occult Advisor Seekers You're fuckin' Jake had a night, an idea got Jake And it's taking on a life he started It came out of nowhere New war increasingly so Open your synchro-mystic eyes to see

1:19:58 A well-connected tapestry, a catalystic version or thing that happens naturally. Still don't know. Dot connecting world I flush everything i have been taught and down the drain it's swirled Pop culture references my preferences That no one thinks im crazy numerology is affecting me This not how my

1:20:35 Open your synchromistic eyes to see A well-connected tapestry, a cabalistic bourgeoisie Or thing that happens naturally You don't know There is logic to it, a cosmic artist touch What does it mean though? I don't know. I haven't learned that much That big ritual, meticulously planned

1:21:28 Or the evidence of some demon trickster's hand We consider and a little bit more The Ohio side chat, cause it's wonderful Open your synchromistic eyes to see A well-connected tapestry A capitalistic bourgeoisie Or thing that happens naturally We still don't know