Kerry Rhodes & Farzin Toussi | The Medicine: Ayahuasca, Spirit Contact, & Shamanic Healing

00:00 Well hello hello dear people of the internet i am your humble host just cutting in before we dive fully into this show today to say that this is an interview. That actually recorded back at the beginning of march if you can believe it and it wasn't my intention to hang on do it for so long at first but as current events started to swallow up all the air in the proverbial podcasting room, It just got pushed further and further back. But that said, I also realized just how far ahead of the film's release we actually recorded this! I think Barzun mentions a June date and even that didn't happen it got pushed back another month And it looks like the film actually released yesterday July 7th And I've been keeping an eye on it So when I saw that it did actually launch I decided that would be the best time to put this out as well

00:54 We want to promote this film clearly that's why i'm talking to today is awesome guests an hour with each one separately actually which is a unique change of pace for us or half our with each one if you're only hearing the free first hour version of the show but for a semi mystical spiritual topic like this. It's also so fitting that a conversation about a film called the medicine recorded in early march, actually kind of becomes medicine in a certain way. As I, for one would cherish the opportunity to drop into a conversation that hasn't been tainted by the bulk of 2020! I think i would really enjoy that Would some other conversation have changed if it was recorded today? I'm sure it would have Obviously my own ayahuasca pilgrimage that I couldn't shut up about isn't actually happening...for one But either way, I think its great that it worked out like this

01:52 It would just be weird to not at least inform you of that context. We are going to have to relearn how to have conversations about other things and bringing this old one to life now is maybe something we could consider good training wheels, so sink in it is a fun one! In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. Start from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire! For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation. I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats

02:43 Here we go, Hiresight Chatters from sunny San Diego. I'm Greg Carlwood and it seems that in these troubled times for a lot of us the magic of life has lost its luster The rates of depression anxiety and suicide are all rising to alarming levels The human connection has been replaced with screen obsession And the almighty paper chase is driven our behavior for far too long and has left far too many out in the cold What do we want out of life? Why are we here, and how can we make this whole thing better?" Are questions that seem to get lost in the wake of bland disingenuous election cycles cutthroat capitalism and the latest media panics. Well it seems that more people are realizing the cure for our sick society might lie in getting back to our roots In more ways than one with one of the oldest and most powerful traditions of Amazonian shamanism We know of The ancient entheogenic plant medicine ayahuasca

03:38 It's an indigenous tradition going back over 4,000 years which combines a monoamine oxidase inhibiting vine with dimethyltryptamine rich plants mixed into a full spectrum healing brew that facilitates a life-changing deep dive into one's mind body and soul. And wouldn't you know it, this potent brew is the subject of a great new documentary that we're honing in on today called The Medicine. Which chronicles the pilgrimage of actress Anna Lynn McCord and former NFL safety Carrie Rhodes as they both seek out various forms of healing and insight from an authentically administered ayahuasca retreat First were talking with Carrie about his experiences with The Medicine and later will be talking with the film's director and producer Farzan Toosi

04:22 So let's get into it. A provocative peek into the plant medicine with an ex-NFL ayahuasca advocate brave enough to take the journey. Kerry, my good man welcome to The Higher Side. Greg I appreciate that that was very eloquently said and The way you said some of that stuff, I don't even know it but i appreciated it. It was really good! Really good appreciate that. I try and this is a real treat man as someone who's actually got a trip to Peru booked this summer to take the journey myself nice I hear a lot of people talk about these retreats but I had not yet seen a film that really walked people through what it's like

04:59 Yeah, and to get us started here tell the people a little bit about maybe your NFL career because playing such a taxing sport for the majority of your life and all the concussions that has been a major catalyst in seeking out ayahuasca hasn't it? yeah man So yeah play nine years professionally I played six years with the New York Jets in three years with Arizona there was on the Cardinals then Yeah, man. I mean the journey of living in a world where it's such a toxic masculine world and the sport we call football or the NFL...I mean it was hard man! You had to live up to this thing that really wasn't ultimately who you are and ultimately what do you want to be as a person speaking on myself specifically so I had to kind of trade the waters pretty softly and really exist in a world where

05:50 I was suppressing so much of who i really wanted to be and ultimately be like i'm also this creative been caring and empathetic individual in person. That has to be buried for so long because my exterior having the best such a tough one in the world that i played any NFL so, to kind of navigate those waters for nine years and really suppress so much of who I ultimately wanted to be, and ultimately who I am. And ultimately who I seeked and discovered through my journey of getting back to my roots in my ancestors and drinking this ayahuasca and this Jahe brew to kind of get back to that person. It was hard man because we've been told

06:35 I mean, I played football since I was nine. So as a little kid, I've been taught to win at all costs and not show emotion. It doesn't hurt. It's just a boo-boo. It's just a scratch. It's just a broken bone. It's not that big of deal in that world. You can't dwell on the feelings or the emotional part of it. You have to kind of get over it and fight! And be this hard this masculine male for so long. So to have to get out of that and shake that once that career ended, to shake that off and then try to exist in the world now where all those things that you are deep down should be on the exterior now beyond just being inside. That should be who you live and who you should be." To get back to that man it was a really difficult time for me

07:28 Interesting man yes there are a lot of people out there that are hypnotized by the glitz and glamour their so many people yearning for success in stardom want we don't have it all that yeah and i'm sure was a fun ride the girls the money but i guess having come out the other side of it. Is there maybe some uglyness in it that we dont see through the tv screens is the journey may be overhyped to some extent what do you think looking back now, You know what I mean, and i say this a lot but the time that I did have in the NFL. I talk about the negative stuff alot because of just the journey that im on now and the path that Im on but to be honest I did enjoy playing the game and had some really good times when I did it like you said the money

08:17 the access to things. I mean, I was a 21 year old kid in New York City. I was the captain of the New York City team like i had...I mean, I could do a lot! Like, I had a lot of fun and so I definitely enjoyed some of those times but when you look back on it man and you start to become a man then you start to understand that that's part of your life. That's not who you are and I think that's the journey right? Like You get caught up in a lifestyle you get called up in the ways of everything being done for you and it's really not been done to you with been down for this person who you are is not really you. You getting all these treats and access money and like you said the women have all that stuff but your back call what does fulfill you mean if your real,

09:04 deep thinking spiritual individual and that person is trapped inside trying to get out imagine the torment the torture that you're going through on a daily basis to be this other person and excel in this world where you are excelling then your getting these things that are given to you and gifted to you because of being this titan of a athlete and of a person at that time but really not being your true authentic self. Imagine that internal battle that happens so Yes, the good times are good but there were so many lows in there as well. Just trying to deal with this battle of internal struggle that you know you're not being your authentic true self and that's the part I mean like are you selling yourself out? Are you selling your soul to be this individual, to be this person, this NFL guy and that's a struggle

09:54 Yeah yeah there's a lot of money in the game and it comes with attachments and you know expectations to behave a certain way for sure. And talk to us about maybe that the negative side of the game or the physical toilet takes on the body that may be got you just start looking at iowa sky mean how did even hear about this as a possible solution for such things, yeah that was the main reason so i would actually introduced to the medicine through the director of the film bars and to see who was a friend of mine before we. Jump into the documentary but you tell me about it and for me i had never taken any foreign substance in my body so don't think that ever had to any degree of, any kind of thing that was in my body with alcohol so i mean i would have occasional drink but before then i'd never even

10:47 fantasize about any kind of medicine or drug or whatever you want to call it, anything. I mean, I never had any of those desires and so we were talking about it. He told me for the first time like I did this, I did ayahuasca and it was great and it's made me a better person. And I was like oh okay cool that's great good for you! And uh...and uh..I remember seeing him and he did it again one time and I remember sitting over And just the way that he was speaking and the way that he was talking about certain things for me, it was a little bit of a trigger as far as oh something's happening. Something different about him and it seems really really really pleasant I kind of saw that kind of shift with him happening? And then I remember asking again about it and I was like alright He said is a couple times so let me at least do the courtesy of checking on them and seeing what its about So actually started to my research

11:42 After i did the research one of the things that i saw that immediately struck a chord with me and immediately got my gears shifting and turning a little bit, it was the regenerative property of the brain that it has. And so with a lot of research on that, it's been proven to have regenerative properties for the brain and for me being a football player dealing with concussions and having you know the fear of CTE and head trauma and all this stuff be a big factor in my life That was the thing that really got me looking at medicine in a different light I mean, i didn't agree to do it right away but that initial oh wow that's different that something new. That's the part of the kind of real me and so once i got those what i got that is not hard to dig more and more deeper and deeper and see that it was known secure depression anxiety in all these things with me leaving again

12:37 and translating going to my new career as an actor in having ups and downs that go with that. There was certainly some depression with me, I was involved in my life so have some of those things kind of seeing some of those things on a checklist being able to check those off say those are the things that would definitely want to address and try to remedy. That's the reason why I got involved Very cool and that shift you mentioned it comes through in the film to with both you and analyze when your interviewed before taking a brew after i think its night and day you can tell there's like maybe. I'm more confidence in the way you speak about such a mysterious kind of thing yeah maybe you guys both seem more centered i would say, it's hard thing to qualify but if u see it you can recognize it then i agree that opens up

13:27 your own mind to be like yeah what is this about maybe i need to get in on this thing but we all have a i think things we could be better at nobody's perfect and this medicine can heal wide range of things but most people raised in western society they put all their faith and big pharma the marvels of medical science and that psychedelic brew in the Amazon could help or even heal something as complex and serious as brain trauma, or CTE more effectively than all these modern advancements. I mean that's a tough pill to swallow for some. It's crazy but if you think of it this way these indigenous tribes 400 years ago were extracting this brew and knowing that it took these two particular plants to manifest this feeling that she filled

14:18 the feelings that you go through, some of the visions and some of the stuff that you go through while on your ayahuasca journey. Imagine that! Like... That long ago these people who were perceived as not smart or wild or these nature creatures out there just living off the earth You wouldn't think they would have the capacity to make this type of brew or make this type of drink To have these effects on anybody but The fact is that's the case What do we not know what do they know like just having those conversations like the conversation starters that happened and that's it is you can't get with big farm if u cant get anywhere else but there so that should go there in dive in the jungle when. Do things and try things are different and try things at

15:08 We as Westerners just don't have the information on like, why wouldn't you want that anyway? So when I speak to people about the medicine in general is like we tried all the other things. Why not try this thing that's a natural thing and have all these stories of people that have gotten better and live better and live more from their earth than have these centered feelings that we all long and urge others to have. Like why wouldn't you want that Yeah, well said and it is kind of crazy because all the pills that the modern system makes are full of side effects. I mean nothing's working a hundred percent some things people take for depression cause depression It's just it's a tangled web and yet our culture has this look at the people in the Amazon indigenous tribes as uncivilized or primitive or savage And I think that's a lot of residue from the

16:04 terrible things the empire is done to these people over you know this ban of human history it's really easy to offload some of that guilt by saying well there are just primitive people and we brought civilization through and steamroll them in they had no value what they were doing but. That's just so untrue. And I'm sure that even the idea of something, I think about is just living like indigenous people live for so long. I mean, I know the retreat is a little bit comfortable. It looked comfortable but it's gotta be kind of cool also to just live closer to how our ancestors lived. Yeah, The Retreat is definitely comfortable but it's not your traditional five-star hotel or anything like that. Your room is... It's a cement block with a bed

16:51 one window, like I mean you know it's there are no amenities okay. So you're pretty close and then i've done in the actual rainforest as well. I've done ayahuasca, I've had a ceremony in Nosara we did the ceremony outside its full nature and the place that we stayed in really was like the smallest place I probably ever been in. And now I have done it on a grander scale and definitely more smaller scales so I have experienced kind of both ways I don't think that part matters. After you go through the ceremony, you just really want to detach and be in your thoughts and really just have a place to lay your head so you're not really worried about the grandioso moments

17:36 And the places that you can be in but she just kind of wanna have a place to lay your head down man and being it's all really really just kinda process what you're going through. Yeah yeah that makes sense no need to check twitter no no no way twitter has nothing offered up when That's funny. And I know that in the documentary you do mention at the end, like that you've already went back before the film was totally over and that seems to be a little different from Anna Lynn's experience but yeah i guess talk to us about The Shaman that you worked with either in the film or some of the other ones you work with how do they compare what do you think about these people who are really like put on the path

18:17 of being a healer from such a young age. Yeah, I've only worked with one shaman and that's my shaman from the film. That's Taito Wanito and man he is brilliant he is great He's the most loving person I have ever been around in my life And it's crazy because you meet these individuals and they're foreign to you but they are so not foreign to you You know what I mean? The familiarity that you feel that I feel when I'm around him and when I'm around everybody else in that family, it just feels like home. And I think that's where we're ultimately trying to get back to as a society, as people, we're trying to get back home right? Home for everybody...I mean everybody in this world is love and so if you feel the love from someone and you feel the love like I feel when I'm around Tita Juanito and Carlos and all those guys over there, It's a reminder to me

19:14 There's so much more out there in this world for us to find and to discover. And there are so many other different brothers and sisters that we have in the world that we can connect to if we just open our hearts, open our minds to that. So that is what I feel when I'm with them. It's just this familiarity it's love... We're all on the same lane for the betterment of mankind not just ourselves like we're all wanting to spread a lot of people and let them know This is an invite for all of us to come in and kind of rediscover who we are. So that's kinda where I live with it, And I know they do a great job just making us all feel like we belong you know?

20:00 Obviously when people talk about these journeys are so much emphasis on the brew itself it is the star of the show but yeah consultation seems really interesting and even just some other like that tobacco usage and i've heard about their little smaller kinda helper plants being used as well what's that like me that's gotta be pretty interesting. That was the most intense part for me. I saw the film so yeah, so when I did their rap a sort of rat page on tobacco that you You just kind of like an inhibitor it opens your third eye and it makes you a little bit more receptive to the medicine And like I said for me I had never taken anything and so having the consultation in the rat paid to kind of open my system up and opened my third eye and really really really

20:50 kind of clear all my blockages for me to go into the ceremony. It was mind-blowing, I mean i got blown with the rapé and immediately I was floating! Like I wasn't here okay like I was literally sitting outside and you're sitting in the middle of nature, you're sitting in the middle of the rainforest and these trees We become so blind to anything that's real because we're on our iPhones, our computers. Everything has to do with social media and the neglect of human interaction and the interaction with the earth and grass and dirt in the trees and just with nature. So as soon I got blown with the rap pay

21:36 like I was one. I was just one with everything outside, and I could feel the wind caressing me like touching me making sure that I'm calm It's almost like the wind was like you're okay, you're good, you're calm Just relax You know? Like...I felt that kind of vibe with the wind And then I could see the trees and like I can see it We walk through days and days and days and don't see anything outside This is one of those things where when you walk outside You can walk by the same spot 30 times and not notice something, and then that one time you notice it? It's that. I saw ants on the ground like how often do we see ants unless we're looking for them? Like you can see all these things around and just like wow! Like i'm open to whatever is about to happen so for me that was kind of what it was

22:27 I was such a control freak in my early years and even when I first got down with football, like I was just a control freak because I was able to control everything in my life. And it was needed at that time and that's the battle that you have as an adult because with football, I needed to control what I needed to control and that helped me be the best version of myself as a football player but as a human to control everything, you don't have control anyway so your fighting this battle trying to control something that you have no control of and so once you kind of realize that just let go. And let things be because things are going to happen the way they're gonna happen anyway when do you get to that point and that's kinda why i got to the point when I first did this morning and did the right pay it was a stat like,

23:11 carry relax let go you have no control and so that's kind of what it was. That something i want to experience because I talk to people who maybe are more energetically attuned than I am and they talk about consciousness permeating through all forms of life, the trees do the animals even as you say like the wind did the dirt things we definitely don't even consider alive and its like something that there but I guess Not only do we not sensitive waking consciousness were not really encouraged or taught much about it guys like neil degrasse tyson don't even think consciousness is a thing in the scientific people we put on pedestal to teach us about the world and yeah, i just did it's a curious thing but that's awesome and its that feeling the intelligence of the consciousness of all things that is pretty intriguing me. Really is you go outside

24:06 and you just sit on the ground right we still in the ground and actually ground yourself. And earth yourself and really feel what the universe is giving to you all the information that has you can go outside it's so funny cuz i'm still relatively new to all the tree hugging and all that stuff. I don't go outside and hug trees on an everyday basis, right? But there are moments when I'm like... When I do want to feel grounded. I mean, I live in LA where it's all about what you're doing next and what you got next on the plate. Like, I mean, I'm an actor so obviously I have to book work and I'm always worried about that but there are times where I just need to ground myself and I can really go outside and feel the heartbeat

24:48 of a tree and just listen to the information that is given us because they've been here for so long. The fact that they're so deeply rooted in the ground, and they've been here and had gone through rainstorms and earthquakes and hurricanes, then they still have been here like there's still here like all the stories that they have to tell if you just listened and go outside and pay them some respect, you'll feel it too I mean its so much information or so much knowledge and so much beauty in the world that we neglect And it's such a sad thing because we're so closed off as a society. And once you start doing those exercises and just meditating and becoming one, and just really getting back to the center of who we are as people then there is going to continue to be hard times or sad times like they are. Yes yes

25:35 What would you say to critics who are here in this and they're like well i'm not surprised you felt the wind hug you and all this shit cuz your putting drugs in your body what do you say to people who think that this is an authentic experience that it's a. Illusion area or hallucinatory because you are altering your brain chemistry i mean it's something i think that you got experience is like trying to explain the color green do a blind man but try me what would you say to critics who think that this is all just drugs. Yeah, I mean everything's a drug in the world right? If you drink coffee that's the drug. That's something you become dependent on or whatever case might be or if you like the feeling that coffee gives you You like the feeling that TV gives you when you watch TV and you like to feel them that you hear when your certain music that you love. You like the feeling of A partner you like the feeling of love we'd like to fill in all those things that you can feel I mean all those things could be considered a Drug if you want it to be called that right and so I think with

26:36 I was good which we don't call a job for reason is medicine because it is natural and it's from the air so it something that. Been here for years and years and years of yours for us to experience what we just haven't had the capacity or want to do that so when i talk about what i was good, what did me like to try to break down somebody assist you have this need in the stars to be better yet this mean there's no knowledge and one should be one two experience more in your life, more than what we've been given as a society because let's be frank. We get given what we're given because that's all we want and that's all we really care about and really wanna know but there are guys and people like myself and like yourself and others who wanna experience greater so why would you ever wanna talk bad about somebody or talk down about somebody who wants to experience more and not be stuck in the world that everybody else seems to think

27:36 is the best world in the world that we should be ok with living like i want better always one but it's always dark red so what are you talking about the medicine managers about. You can take this drink of life and feel certain things yes sometimes they're gonna be some imagery and somethings that you may see that maybe associated with something that people would consider a drug, but also it's what you feel after that because ayahuasca isn't the cure. It doesn't save you and I think that's number one thing my shaman told me from the first time i sat in the reason why I really really believed and feel wholeheartedly that it's The best thing for us all is because it's not the cure. It's a starter. It's a starter pack It's a starter pack for you to live the way that you should live as individuals And it's a starter pack for

28:26 us to be able to spread the word and spread the joy and spread the feeling of love everyone in every one involved i don't think most drugs really care about. You going out and being a healer after this and helping to spread the word on how we should live as people and how we should care about each other and be empathetic to others then, and not fight, and not be so aggressive. And be understanding, and be these things I don't think most drugs really associate with that So i would say if you can look at it with an open heart and see for that reason we CNN then you'll at least be open to the discussion of seeing where that could lead you and not being so dismissal of it

29:09 Fair enough yet cheers to that and it's tough i mean people can't really assess the authenticity of an experience they haven't had so give a shot skeptics and see what happens if you don't feel like that all you need is a yes and get into the brew itself anyone who's heard the ayahuasca one oh one stuff knows about the purge hand. I'm definitely not excited about you and potentially shit myself in front of a bunch of people but nothing ventured nothing gained i guess and there you go in the film describe this as a pretty impactful part of the experience maybe something people worry too much about but talk to us about the purge and maybe that deeper meaning out. Yeah the purchase exactly what your elude so it's much more than that i mean its,

29:56 In theory, when you purge you're getting rid of the bad toxins in your body and also getting rid of the bad juju that we carry around with us. I mean the bad attachments to bed all those things right? We're getting rid about stuff in the purge That would be layman terms. We're getting rid of all the bad juju and the bad toxics that we have in our body right? So if you are going through an experience where you look for clarity and light and look at these things too, be shown to you or should be at your disposal you have to get rid of the bad stuff so that's really what the purge kind of entails or depicts in layman terms, that's kinda where it goes and I think everybody can kind of follow that. But yeah its really just that but for me it was very impactful because like I said my first time doing it and for me when I told you like I had to battle this letting go on losing control and so even though I was ready to go and take that dive when the first

30:54 effects of the medicine start to kick in i was like oh shit what the hell is going on here? Like the room's a little uh, closing and spinning and you see these colors and lights and your like I am not Kansas anymore. You have that type of feeling but when I purged for the first time I remember purging in the bucket And when I purged in the bucket, I saw something. I saw a fetus in the bucket! Yeah...I was like wow and of course scared but what is that? Couldn't really go to it but I remember looking into the bucket trying to look closer if I was seeing what I was seeing and yeah, I was seeing a fetus and every time I looked in, it would pull me in so almost like a gravitational pull pulling towards the fetus

31:39 I was like, whoa. That's intense and then I couldn't really go there so I didn't go there the first night but I remember after that having a consultation with Tita Juanito and he was like yeah did anything happen that you wanted to speak about or talk about? Whatever the case may be. And I was like oh yeah! There is one thing. I purged in the bucket and saw a fetus. He said yeah, yeah, yeah that's great. Why is it great? What does that mean? It means you had a cold moment at birth or you had some moment in your childhood that you have to address. And obviously when you think of it that way, like oh yeah probably and we're all battling our childhood traumas and all this stuff as we get older and as we get adult so we have a lot of blockages and stuff that may affect the person that we are as adults

32:30 from our childhood. So when he expressed that, I was like oh okay cool and he's like if it happens again tonight you know just go there see what happens i'm like go there okay i'll go there but i'm thinking it won't happen again right? I'm like it probably happened at once but it won't show itself again and so that next night ceremony two we drank I purge in the bucket and shit there it is again, the fetus. It's not letting me elude it so I'm like okay all right cool so actually This is so funny because when you look at it from the outside looking in, I'm looking in. I look in the bucket and I actually go in so I connect in the bucket right? So from the exterior if you're looking at me like this idiot has his head thrown up right now that's what he's doing but in my experience I'm uh...I'd look in and the gravitational pull pulls me towards the fetus and I connect It's almost like a movie so its almost like a cut too

33:30 I wake up and i'm laying in the crib. I'm a baby in the crib. Yeah, and I'm looking out the crib...I'm looking at the crib and I'm crying hardcore like legit crying. I mean snot running down my nose like real crying! And I see my parents or my ancestors or spirit parents walking around the crib I was thinking to myself, obviously like oh shit. I'm sitting there crying nobody would pick me up so the need for someone to always pick me up or tell me i'm good or tell me i'm the best or just to be there for me was a huge thing in my life with my praise and acceptance on the football field with

34:26 Any kind of love relationship and they had to be there. They had to say things I needed positive words of affirmation, right? Probably more than most So having these like visions with them like oh shit And so I remember I was landing the crib and I had that moment like I don't need that I'm gonna need anybody do that and I put my thumb in my mouth like a baby as the baby. I remember smiling and the thumb grew, it grew down my throat and kind of killed that moment. So in that moment the realization that I didn't need anybody else to be there or pick me up or support me in that way anymore was crucial for me moving forward because I was in a relationship at the time where it was kind of that stuff and I was battling trying to figure out should I still be here or not blah blah blah having these things

35:21 That really, really got me through that and really made me understand the things I needed to move forward as a competent spiritually balanced human being. To understand that you can fix yourself, you can handle yourself in some of these things. You don't need someone just to be there if they're not the right person to be there because we get attached to certain feelings and emotions that are triggered with people who In our world and we think it's supposed to be there but then not, it's not healthy and so that those kind of epiphany is in one ceremony about what could where you go to. Are there any spend all this money and new you can have certain breakthroughs with their present thing that was great not trying to talk about them but

36:10 The accelerated version of what that looks like was iowa scott for me you know. Yeah damn and yeah are our parents try their hardest but one hundred percent have to be moments to a baby where it's very traumatic but it seems just like a regular old thursday in the kid won't shut up, But that's kind of an early trauma, and I'm sure there is a lot of that stuff to unpack deep within us that we don't even realize. Shit! I might take this brew and have to relive my circumcision or some shit like... No yeah for sure! It's crazy

36:49 So obviously this is really impactful to you on an emotional and spiritual level but i am curious about the medical side the physical brain side of it have these concussions have you had any kind a testing or anything to see if that's really been, correct i'm sure you can feel difference but yeah can we quantify with data in any regard. It's funny before i went i used to do mri brain scans and cognitive test all the time just on that level. The test my brain how my brain was firing off of seeing if it was working in doing all that idea that a lot post, is so clear to me how much more aware and not as forgetful and have been the capacity to learn and the capacity too

37:38 Memorize and do all the things that I do as an actor in the field that i'm in. It's obviously better, I have not gone back to check because obviously even with MRI and brain scans you can't really see the extent of damage there anyway so it is kind hard to quantify anyway but just from feeling alone Yeah, a thousand percent. A thousand percent better. Cool yeah because you just don't feel the need to even go get checked because you feel so whole and healed? Exactly! Wow well awesome man hey this has been really awesome and I commend you for putting yourself out there so much judgment comes with this sort of thing so it's great that you're pushing through that i got one more question for you because my audience would not forgive me if i had a former NFL player here and didn't at least ask us

38:29 The show at castle wide umbrella psychedelics is in their paranormal's and there we talk about conspiracy a lot too. I've had a lot of previous guests talk about professional sports as the modern day opiate of the masses and even if you who study professional sports and question the authenticity of the games that people see on sunday they are all the opinion that there's a lot of gaming this system behind the scenes for the purpose of, Generating the maximum amount of income and i want to put you in a comfortable position but do you think there's any truth that all having been on the inside. Yeah what like i would know that from even plan because obviously at the time, my time of plan it just wasn't as much information available now we talk about now though i mean where is social media driven world then everything is reported everything analytics obviously if you look at it from a macro scale

39:23 you see all these things that are happening with legalizing gambling in certain spots and you're doing all these things that are, it's gotta be something going on behind the scenes when it comes to that stuff. But for me as a player that was in it pre-Twitter, pre Instagram and all social media analytics stuff like we were just there trying to make the money. We were athletes trying to make it by and we were okay with being paid where we're paid. And like he said having access that we had I wouldn't know that, but yeah there's always a bigger money player or something going on underneath for sure. Always! Yeah i mean when there's billions of dollars involved you don't usually leave it up to chance sometimes. Yeah 100%. Right on right well hey fair enough and again appreciate your time thanks for taking up this cause and congrats on taking the journey man take care Greg I appreciate him uh let me...I want to know about you when you do yours let me know about that For sure I will all right buddy All right man

40:23 First, we talked with Kerry about his experiences with the medicine. And now we're talking to the film's director and producer Farzan Tusi So let's get into it! A provocative peek into plant medicine with a man brave enough to chronicle the journey. Farzan my good man welcome to The Higher Side Thank you so much for having me great yeah i am psyched to do this the documentary is really well done people can get a great sense for what it's really like because the journey can be intimidating for a lot of people even just, geographical journey can be kind of daunting and i think that visuals help a whole lot and i guess i would start this up by asking how does medicine even really got on your radar.

41:06 That's a very good question. I heard about it through my partner at the time and she was dealing, my wife she was dealing with losing her father and her friend was involved in the Ritmia resort in Costa Rica and she invited her down to Costa Rica to try this medicine that she did not know anything about it She went down to Costa Rica Did a couple ceremonies with title one who's featured in our documentary and it changed her life when she came back i saw her transformation. I decided to get on the plane go down to read me myself and try i was good, i didn't do any research just said you know i can see how. She's change therefore i'm gonna try and go down there and see what we can do for me and ever since that first

42:04 Drink it's had a profound effect on my life and we decided to do a documentary on the medicine Yes and i understand you are an atheist before you had the brew and maybe even after the first journey were still trying to rationalize this spiritual aspects as just maybe tricks of brain chemistry changes or somehow not real talk to us about the process of dealing with those spiritual aspects and what do you think about that side of things now. Well, I'm definitely a lot more woo-woo than I was three years ago. As you mentioned, I did not believe in God. I was very black and white and some of the things that I've experienced, some of the things that I've seen during ceremonies have really changed my thought process as there being a higher power whatever you want to call it... The universe, god, whatever you wanna call it there is something

43:04 that is out there that we can really explain and if three years ago you would have said hey, you know You're gonna be talking like this. I would have said you're crazy because you know, i've Experienced so much now after drinking it so many times over the last three years That there's no way of explaining some of the things that happened during a ceremony with ayahuasca Wow wow i mean that is the big thing for me i wanna have more engagement with say the spirit world i guess and. Having drank the brew a few times can you tell us about an impactful encounter in that regard maybe your partner at the time did today find relief they were looking for well she did, she was a lot more at ease where you know the concept of losing her father because she

43:57 Essentially communicated with him and he said look I'm okay. You don't need to worry about me. I've moved on, i'm okay And she came back really able to deal with this loss and she was in a very bad place at the time It had been awhile so she wasn't really able to reconcile loss Her mind and heart so this really helped her and the other thing that happened was she actually connected with my father who had passed on in nineteen ninety one. Add this is another reason why i said look i need to try this because i have been

44:41 Really shooting from the hip from losing my father at a young age youngish age and hadn't really I don't think Reconciled it so when she's like look. I talked to your dad, and your dads really proud of you And then I thought to myself well if my that's prouder me. I work in reality television There is no way he can be proud of me So I'm like I gotta go talk to him myself So I literally got on a plane a week later and it went down to Costa Rica. I have yet to have that connection with my father's spirit, but it's been a pursuit But for whatever reason I believed her You know I believed that she had communicated with her father with my father And I think that was maybe I was at a vulnerable place in my life where I felt like There wasn't need for spirituality if you will That I was open to it for the first time

45:36 Nice and i guess having been through what do you think the mechanism is there because it doesn't seem to be an exact science like you said u wanna connect with. Your father and you haven't been able to but she somehow was able to even carry told us the story about connecting to someone he was with connecting with their, parents and it wasn't like something that they were seeking out you know i'm sure your previous partner wasn't seeking out a conversation with your father but sometimes the stuff just happens, i am curious if you have any insights or thoughts on. The mechanism there how this connection is even facilitated through the brew well that's very loaded question

46:23 I think for me there may be some blockages that i'm working through. I think that for my wife she was down much further along in the spiritual world than I have been and that may have aided her in her maneuvering how to interact with this medicine, and I think this medicine is kind of the conduit to the spiritual world. I think it really involves letting go It involves allowing yourself to be taken to a different room and i think that. People are different places in that journey is actually an interactive medicine i think if you fight it, you may not get what do you would desire you know they say the medicine gives me what you need

47:22 not what you want. And if you talk to, for example, the shaman that I do the medicine with, Taito Wanito, and ask him why is it that I'm having all these difficult ceremonies and these journeys? Why is this so physical? Why am I not seeing things? Why am I not getting direct messages? It's all way over my head right he's like well now this is cleaning up Your ancestors and all this stuff and sometimes it goes back to the source in your previous lives And it's just is also mind-boggling and way above my spiritual understanding of the world really But but at the same time I've come to believe that right. I come to have faith in it so have faith in this

48:14 Essentially is conduit to the spiritual world and i'm just learning how to navigate getting to that part where actually receiving messages. And i was go for what i understand it's not it's a female spirit, add from what they said its not direct messaging right there's a lot of interpretation but it's a spare that really wants the best for you Yes it's like when i talk to people who have had spirit communication its obviously not in english is not even a telepathic message that, is necessarily an english but its more like a symbolic language or a language of emotion maybe you can feel the vibe of certain emotions more than u can detect actual words would say thats accurate.

49:10 That's very accurate i think it's really you feel it right it's in the heart and the question is what do with that ride. The biggest part of this is you go and drink this thing, you have amazing experience and by amazing i'm not saying its fun but any shape of imagination By amazing, I mean you throw up and you get diarrhea. You have a horrific night but in that night comes some learning and the question is how do you integrate what you learn doing these ayahuasca journeys in your real life? And that's the toughest part so it's not like he can go down to Costa Rica Colombia Peru or Brazil Go for week and you change fundamentally you might but you really have to practice when you learned

50:00 And that's the toughest part of the process. Fair enough yes and as you say in the film it's pretty amazing that indigenous cultures learn to combine these plants out of the hundred fifty thousand plans on the amazon all the various combinations, the explanation that the shaman gives me the film is that the legend says that a staircase came out of this guy people came down and told them about many valuable combinations of plants and ayahuasca was just one of them. And I'm sure that again is a symbolic kind of thing, not a literal staircase from the sky but is that as much as we know about the origins of this? Yeah you know there's no real record keeping it's all generation after generation telling stories and for me what was fascinating

50:54 learning about it was that's why we focus a little bit on the documentary is like how did they come up with this combination of plans to get this effect there are no labs that could be like. Trying different combinations or they weren't like looking for this So I actually in a crazy way. I do believe them when they say look the spirit world told us what to do with this What's it? Do with are what they call plant technology? I believe them because there's no real other viable explanation as woo as it sounds, you know It's there's no other explanation and how is that

51:34 Almost all the tribes have a similar form of ayahuasca. They're all different mixtures, whether you go to Brazil to Peru to Ecuador to Colombia they'll have this and this is sort like the You know as our shaman says in the documentary it's a pillar their communities But yet they're slightly different but they all have it I don't think there were I mean just seems like at that time There weren't transferring this knowledge from one end of the Amazon basin to the other i just feel that they were all individually maybe given this knowledge somehow. Right right that's something i think about you because you know you have guys like graham hancock in the film and he is always looking for this lost ancient civilization, and there are some weird things about human history their pyramids all over the world there are similar practices like this one and also agriculture sprouting up at

52:33 kind of the same time depth but in vastly different areas of the planet and we think well how did this all happen because the egyptians didn't travel to. New mexico and tell them to build step pyramids but yet we have these, the same structures and when you get familiar with ayahuasca in the way that it works, it seems more reasonable to think that instead of these people literally traveling around and teaching each other how to build a society or certain structures are these tools. Maybe they all tapped into the same spiritual source or the spiritual source tapped into them and that's why we see such similarities

53:12 I think that's pretty valid it's wild but i like that you get more insight from something like this because we are so stuck in our material physical matter based way of thinking that we sometimes. Can't interpret data like that correctly and there's a lot more nuance when you have i guess some spirit or psychedelic experience absolutely add just wanna Say this again four years ago five years ten years twenty years i would never my wildest dream consider this as being viable and now i don't see how.

53:57 this history that we're being taught is really viable yeah and i know i was cause of course the star of the show but i am curious about. That aspect of this origin story where they gave me, indigenous people many different plant combinations i have you heard about any other plant combinations and their uses i'm sure there's gotta be a wide spectrum but the other ones don't get nearly the attention that i was good yet. Well yeah i mean with this community that were involved in they say there is no botanist and they literally have a cure for anything from plants but at the same time this

54:43 Yeah hey in the colombian version of it seems to be what their community was built around so you know i think that if we were. Add any kind of ailment they seem to be going out go to some plants who are and your good to go and it seems to me that our pharmaceutical companies have been tapping into that apparently there's a ton of research going on whether it's on i was there are other parts of the amazon a lot of the rebranded up in the documentary with one of our interview is a lot of. Why did pharmaceuticals are based on plants found in the amazon right like how can we profit from this and put an appeal for and pretend like we built it in the lab but if you talk to people on the ground there's a lot of

55:36 Looking into these indigenous cultures and extracting things from that but they're not always at least it seems to me they might not always be forthright with the source of the cures that they are coming up with its like. They wanna say that its fizer lab tax working diligently nine to five, check come up with some other stuff but this indigenous knowledge is a real kinda third rail that just doesn't get the attention that should No, and look I think that we are essentially taught to look down on ancient cultures and civilizations and peoples right. We read in the history how they were conquered and there were savages or whatever you want to call them but really the more i've dug into being around indigenous culture is the more you realize that they really knew

56:33 What was going on with humanity with the environment super connected super in tune and we come so far away from it that i think this is what people are you're in for us to go back to that connection with other humans and other animals of nature. And no way my understanding is that all the elders amazon, Decided that we need this right we being people in the north of the west need their engine remedy. To for better planet as a whole and from everything that i'm understanding,

57:16 They decided to bring this at a lot of peril because a lot of shamans travel to Europe and States with their medicine and it says, you know It's a schedule one drug and not not legal but they're bringing in with a lot of love right? They're not coming in with resentment You know And that's been really interesting for me to see how much love and how much pain Compassion they have for us even though we're really directly or indirectly and nightly there are no words right. Right and clearly as you said they have been burned in the past by trying to show the white man the empire whatever you wanna say,

57:58 What they can do with these and the generic bruise and the film actually starts of the pretty great quote will you say. When the earth is ravaged and animals are dying a new tribe people show come into the earth, From many colors classes creeds and who buy their actions and deeds show make the earth green again they will be known as the warriors of the rainbow that's one of these old native american prophecies but it seems like, that's kind of what driving this resurgence. Yeah i think we can all agree except for the republican base that the environment is really a pearl right now. And i think it's gonna need to get a lot of people together to return around and, will we shot the film in the amazon basin input tomorrow i was really astonished how little jungle was left another a lot of jungles being clear cut or pasture land for cows

59:02 And performing it's amazing what's happening down there and i think in january the weather so far is people got on the bandwagon for two or three weeks and i replaced by different news cycle and i think that something that really. Needs heavy focus attention to minutes, it's been going out for so long i remember staying in the eighties talking about the amazon and mean it's really amazing how He just keeps going on the butchering of the amazon. We're just not doing much and started get out so far is really amazing to me that it's been around for so long and it just keeps getting destroyed something needs to happen cheers to that and of course,

59:50 This is kind of a trendy thing this i was and there's a lot of different shamans and retreat centers some people tell you gotta be very careful who you choose where you choose, no i'm actually signed up to go down the peru this summer never since i brought that up on the air i've gotten so many emails about can't tell me where your going and i actually i cant but. You know in the documentary it's really great that u highlight a place that people can actually go the read me a life advancement center it seems like you, what endorse this particular place if people are curious and can't necessarily find the exact location they should go to. Yeah that's where i did for the first time i've been there few times it's safe its queen got a medical staff on the grounds. Type of wanting to goes their title so has his own retreat in columbia four times a year

1:00:50 So, obviously we were highlighting the medicine itself and we highlight two locations but I think that we tried to make a point that you just can't go do this with anybody. But you need to really do your homework and go to a safe place where you know you're going to be taken care of. And the good thing about Rhythmia is that it's in Costa Rica it's easy to get to you're not traveling through jungle or by boat so For folks who may not be that adventurous hits the place to go right as an introduction to this medicine it's adventure light yes yes very cool. And we talked a little bit about healing and you mentioned this cure for everything and of course,

1:01:37 People talk about ayahuasca in the context of a relief from depression and anxiety, maybe even addiction. And that is one thing but curing disease and healing some forms of cancer? That's a whole nother can of worms! Even just adding ayahuasca to the whole Toolkit that they have are there certain conditions that you've heard Can be healed in this way. That might surprise people Have you seen any like examples or or conditions or diseases? That just really shocked you when they were healed Yeah, I mean I think on the psychological level Ayahuasca gets a lot of press and I think it's deserved and

1:02:21 It's less known to cure physical ailments but what are the times i was at red there was a young guy from orange county and he could barely walk to go. No drink that medicine right the cup you have to be held you know we had like special chairs of people in their watching out for him, And i swear by the end of the week he was able to do it on his own and i was literally watching that going this is just unbelievable damn. Add a dozen get a lot of press and i don't wanna make this sound like this is america medicine essentially, it is what you wanted to be or what you needed to be because u can go there with intention

1:03:16 You're communicating and asking for help when you receiving it. Right now well hey man this is been awesome before we go tell the people where to get the film or anything else they might wanna know about it specifically what's coming out, we just got a distribution deal and its being released on apple iTunes and google play April twenty twenty coming up april may ish and will be available for download and streaming in all that fun stuff. Very cool any upcoming projects of yours in the conspiracy paranormal psychedelic space you wanna plug as well,

1:03:59 No, I'm trying to figure out where I go from here as far as doing something good in between doing a lot of bad content for television. Um, I'm really trying to focus on the Amazon but not so much on anything other than maybe some activism down there against the destruction of it but i'm looking into try and figure out how do best approach that subject because like I was ranting earlier I think that's something that just comes up for a couple weeks and everybody gets all hot and bothered, then they forget about it. And i think its something that needs to really get mass attention for anything to change. Well said!

1:04:44 Well, hey very cool man. Thanks for making the film thanks for taking the time to talk to me a lot of Insights to chew on for sure. Thank you so much You got it well take care out there and keep doing what you do Appreciate it. Thank you And boom goes the dynamite, dear people! Big thanks to Kerry and Farzan. That was a lot of fun for me I definitely have friends and family that will be checking out what i do for the first time after 10 years because we got a guy they finally know in Kerry Rhodes So welcome to those people We don't have to talk about it But I was so intrigued by the stuff that was said that surprised me

1:05:31 Obviously i saw the film but talking to both of these guys about things outside of that yielded some pretty interesting stuff, listen do a lot of podcasts about ayahuasca so i wanted to make sure. We got you a little bit deeper than the fundamentals but i didn't want to leave anyone behind completely so we can run through the basics just look at how the full picture and honestly as i said in the show i think a lot of people especially our audience, would have considered this kind of pilgrimage. I think the journey sounds great but when you talk to those who have taken it everyone's very hush-hush about their access and this documentary blows that wide open it's probably the thing that pushed it over the line for me to say yeah we do need to do this show because people should have that last piece of the puzzle

1:06:29 I'm sorry that it comes at a time when you can't do much more than fantasize about it, but still. Also clearly this one was formatted a bit differently for us? Way back in March I felt like hey things are going smoothly let's change it up a little bit everything is getting a bit routine! But now... A few short months later.. I kind of long for routine right?! I did wonder how i would structure this. I considered putting out the full hour with Carrie and then keeping the hour with Farzin for the plush show, I know just doing 30 minutes in 30 minutes kind of feels like we are ending as soon as we start but I do like both guests who have given me their time to be heard by the larger bulk of the audience so I did a thirty-in-thirty

1:07:23 Sometimes I really get in my head about how's the best way to structure this for the free audience and honestly, if you've been listening to THC for a while and haven't signed up for PLUS, You're missing so much of these interviews anyway. So join The Club! But in this one, Kerry got deeper into talking about the more than human world. How he conceptualizes it? The experiences with it also the lasting effects of the medicine and the recontextualizing of his NFL career post-brew stuff I thought was really interesting and then with Farzan we got pretty weird talked about UFOs consciousness the wildest shamanic healing stories that he's aware of

1:08:07 and also why there's such an emphasis on not having marijuana in your system when mother ayahuasca gets a hold of you. I think the only silver lining to not getting to go on that trip for me was that i didn't have to do the whole detoxing thing, That's the only aspect i was concerned about because radically changing your diet and quitting your overindulgent habits all at once can be challenging worth it of course But I was concerned about my level of discipline when it came to that stuff. And i'm sure the time will come, I let my deposit ride for next year even though the road ahead doesn't seem to be much smoother we can hope right? but I hope you enjoyed The Curveball Of A Show if you're interested in this you'd probably love the documentary! The visual component is obviously pretty useful in this case

1:09:06 And maybe now you actually are a few steps closer to planning your own journey. At least you have information about a retreat center that you can trust, but that's the show thanks for listening stay safe out there But don't forget to live a little I've done my part Your move plant medicine suppressors resurging shamanic healers and ayahuasca adventurers your fucking move Oh no You see The world isn't random, it's attached to puppet strings Control over everything The 9-to-5 is trying to steal ya Now don't that job seem silly? Hello, can you hear me

1:10:03 Or should I play back recordings from some spying agency? Wish we were younger and free. I'll be thankful when it's all exposed, the vast conspiracy There's such a difference between me now And the damn brush I Hello from the higher side They're calling out a thousand cries They'll tell you the story Of everything that's been done And they'll call out deception Of the web that's been spawned Hello from the higher side The earth is hot inside

1:11:08 They'll tell you about something that no one else will Have you heard about, have you heard about the real since long ago? People know they're cartoons It's so typical of me to talk about this stuff I'm sorry That's good and well

1:11:46 Did you ever hear the argument that nothing really happens? It's no secret And that the best is plush It's doubling your time Hello from a higher side They're calling out a thousand cries Now tell me something the elite have done And they'll call out deception on the web that's been spawned Hello from the high side Challenging your parents

1:12:39 And I'll tell you someday That the battle's begun But we can't fight it with violence The mind's where it is won As the world, as the world Hello from a higher side They're calling out our thank-gods They'll tell you

1:13:31 The elite have done and they'll call now Deception of the web that's been spun From the higher side Challenging your paradigm And I'll tell you that the battle's begun but we can't fight it with violence, the mind's where it's won. That's the point