John Hamer & Shannon Rowan | EMF Damage, Ancient Mysteries, & Royal Society Deceptions

00:05 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a- I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats This is the Way Higher Side Chatters from sunny San Diego, I'm Greg Carlwood and it gets harder and harder to believe that the vast majority of us work uninspired jobs just to tread water with rising inflation. Come home to whatever screen-based entertainment we can tolerate and continue to take our marching orders from a sick system set up by psychopaths who probably can't believe were still so comfortable in this massive multi layered matrix of lies and misdeeds

00:59 From the unfair money magic of fractional reserve banking and a power structure run on blackmail operations to compliance-based education and a medical industrial complex happy to have you pay for your own slow demise. Not to mention, an endless string of false flags, psyops, and hidden agendas that even the best struggle to keep up with! It's enough to make many of us throw up our hands and just hope we can find some metaverse avatar that makes us look cool as the last drops of humanity are drained from the masses on a dark road to transhumanist digital dystopia. Because if you think the past has been tough to navigate, wait until you see the future they have planned!

01:35 But one of the bright minds of our troubled times is the great John Hamer, who has written about all this and more in his long string of dense and detailed explorations on all things conspiratorial. His books include a massive two-volume set of Behind The Curtain – A Chilling Exposé Of The Banking Industry Clocking In At Over 600,000 Words as well as Titanic's Last Secrets, RMS Olympic The Falsification of History are distorted reality. And its recent sequel, The Falsification of Science are distorted reality He's been here before with two classic episodes from the early days covering institutionalized charity corruption and the Titanic conspiracy from July 2015 and the history of bankster control in their orchestrated events from June 2016

02:22 Well today we're gonna talk about most likely just a fraction of the work he's done in the last six years including his latest book welcome to the masquerade prelude to the coming reset with co-author shannon rowan who is also here with us today. Shannon is a Wi-Fi refugee, social critic free thinking fine artist writer geopolitical author and researcher photographer children's book author illustrator and EMF awareness activist living in the wilds of Northern California. It is a real treat to have them both here the masquerade revealers conspiratorial chroniclers and prolific authors of The Apocalypse John and Shannon Shannon and John how are you guys?

03:04 I'm sorry, I was waiting for Shannon because she usually jumps in at this point. Yeah i was trying to be polite and let John go first. I'm pretty good Greg thanks yeah thanks for having us back on it's really great to be back yes yes and i'm sure there'll be a little bit of that which i will iron out in editing but without seeing each other and having two guests is just what happens but it's great to have two guests because it is kind of rare around here and i am psyched that we're doing this again john it was you who really broke us into the titanic conspiracy in all its glory as well as the deep dive of the big charities and so many other things, when u write a book it is no joke they often end up being encyclopedias for certain topic

03:47 The falsification of science, which you've written since we last spoke is 700 pages. And Welcome to the Masquerade, which the two of you wrote together covering all aspects of the pandemic and The Great Reset is also about 700 pages so I've had a busy week trying to tackle these two massive books And while you break everything down so well in Welcome to the Masquerade, I think this audience has a little COVID slash great reset fatigue lately. And I've heard plenty of interviews that the two of you have done that go down all sorts of interesting lesser worn roads. So I hope we could make this more of a grab bag of unexpected random things that I think people would appreciate how does that sound? Sounds good to me!

04:32 They do. I love it! Let's start by getting to know Shannon a little better, you use the term Wi-Fi refugee and you say that you became EMF sensitive in 2014 and that's interesting i didn't know it was something that could be triggered i thought some people naturally were or some weren't but talk to us about your EMF sensitivity and what it means for your life now Yeah, thanks. I think most people who deal with this would say there was a definite trigger and they can trace it to certain time in their lives and not to say that some of us haven't always been a little bit more sensitive in general and I felt like a very minor sensitivity to it in that my cell phone was uncomfortable held to my head like I felt the heating behind my ear but not more than that yeah I think there's a tipping point because these exposures are cumulative

05:25 So, you don't really know like any toxin and it's all about body burden. And so if you have say heavy metals or chemicals are all kinds of assaults at once and your body is not detoxing properly for whatever reason then that can throw you into what they're calling hypersensitivity but it used to be called microwave sickness in the 40s, they've kind of rebranded it to make it sound more like it's the person's fault. They're just sensitive you know there is a genetic defect or something but you know radar operators would get microwave sickness or microwave syndrome because they were the only really people in our society who were really that exposed but now everybody's like an uprater operator with the levels of exposures we have now so I'm hearing this new cases of this all the time It's one way of reacting

06:14 becoming like hypersensitive, allergic almost where you feel the effects of it immediately and people really have a lot of different symptoms with exposures. Like for me it's primarily cognitive, brain fog but like extreme head pains and migraines also chest pains and heart arrhythmia. I was having joint and muscle aches and insomnia and night sweats all kinds of just horrible things making life completely intolerable I mean, it's so intolerable for people dealing with this that they do flee like i have and that's why i call my book Wi-Fi Refugee. And I say I'm a wi-fi refugee—I'm trying to get away from wi-fi of course not just wi-fi but all things you know emf related like that and just yeah... So I've been living having to move several times as the grid sort of encroaches

07:08 everywhere. So we're in a pretty wild place now, although there's still a cell tower here you know but we don't get the signal down at our house which is nice so yeah it's been kind of an interesting journey to say the least it did really wake me up to a lot of other agendas when I discovered the corruption and industry and how just how deep that went And so of course, I mean, I was kind of a person that would question anyway. You know, it's an annoying child to my parents and caregivers asking too many questions. I think john can relate to that you know we both were those kind of children yeah So i wasn't i was you know i read david ike i mean i had some you know awareness Of like other agendas and things but i hadn't really gone that far down the rabbit hole until this happened To me and then i met john A few years later

07:59 actually because of his Titanic work, I happen to. It's really kind of funny, I actually heard a show on BBC of all places when their dramas relate it to a conspiracy with the Titanic but they of course don't tell you the whole, they only focus on the insurance fraud thing, you know? They don't get into it right and so just thinking that maybe that was a lie got me searching the topic and I found John's one of his lectures And then I bought his book, Falsification of History. And I was so intrigued by it just opened my eyes to so many things I hadn't ever thought about or didn't know about. I contacted him because of that and then we kind of hit it off and kept writing. He knew I had some writing experience and that I knew I was educating him all about the EMF topic. So we decided to write a joint book before the pandemic happened

08:51 We got well into more about the transhumanist agenda and EMF topic, and then we diverted. When that happened we were like, we need to refocus and do this first so we're going back to the other book coming up here soon." I love it i love it and in the book the falsification of science you guys cover that there are thousands of studies that link wireless radio frequency radiation exposure to a long list of adverse biological effects some of them are quite. Important like dna single and double strand breaks i know i've always just thought of your dna breaks your dad but clearly that's like a topic the last two years people been talking about scanners at airports unraveling dna and all sorts of strange stuff but.

09:39 The forward-facing effects like headaches or brain fog are just so interesting because they're hard to peg to something. You could think, oh I just didn't sleep good last night or i'm just dehydrated and And how many times do you have to go through brain fog and headaches before you're like, Oh maybe it's that tower outside because yeah. It's just not on people's radar that much when you talk about 5g and some of this stuff in that book, you talk about how some of these effects are particularly

10:16 devastating for plants and rain. And I just found that to be interesting humans and animals alike consume plants as a food source, and therefore the effects of millimeter waves on plants could leave us with food that is unsafe for consumption. The water that falls from the sky onto these plants will also be irradiated in 2010 study on Aspen seedlings showed that the exposure to radio frequencies led to leaves showing necrosis symptoms. Yeah, I mean yikes! A lot of people talk about how does this affect humans? Clearly not good but plants and water

10:52 Yeah, well I'll tell you the reason they're cutting down so many trees to make way for 5G which is really of course so funny because they call it smart cities and environmentally sustainable all this crap. Greenwash it... Why would you have to cut down thousands of trees if you're trying to save the environment? For a technology that's supposed to help you save the environment. It's absolutely absurd but the reason I think they say it's because doesn't penetrate through trees and trees block the signal However, I think that's not true. And there's a lot of evidence to show that's not true. I think what they're really doing is getting rid of the evidence of harm in advance because trees that have been left standing near the 5g transmitters get like burned on the side closest to the transmitter and like not on the other side so you know You see it It's so visual, you know it's like people are gonna have a hard time denying that unless they just don't see it happening right

11:46 They'll blame climate change or whatever on what we start seeing with the trees. We saw this was happening in Arizona where I lived before moving to California with the cactus, with the saguaro cacti it seemed that in areas of high AMFs they were dying and everybody's like why are they dying what's wrong? They even hide the towers like in the cactus you know, a fake cactus. It's actually like a 5G thing right yeah well they do with trees as well I mean yeah and fake trees where the 5g moths are

12:22 Right. Well, the last point I wanted to make about 5G is that you also write about studies done where it largely affects the skin with a burning sensation Now they tell us that well It just makes you think your skin is burning but you cite cases where no there are burns and boils on people's skin But the point is that these little towers we see going up across major cities could potentially be triggered to cause that skin-burning effect, largely as a method of crowd control. So the infrastructure is being put in place now to keep any large groups from resisting en masse it seems? Yeah. The ADS, its called Active Denial System, is what the military's nonlethal weapon is called that uses 5G you know I mean what we call 5G for communications but millimeter waves

13:12 And they say, yeah it just causes the heat to feel like it's burning and you're on fire. It makes people flee because they feel like they're on fire but it doesn't hurt you don't worry except they do admit oh wait it does cause blistering and burns in some sensitive people You know those freaks? Yeah Like me You know its like so don't worry Its just a few people might have that But I mean, that's ridiculous because the other thing is that our skin, our sweat glands have... So they say it won't penetrate more than the skin. Well first of all you have your thyroid at your skin level right under the skin. You have your eyes or organs those are important organs there at the level of your skin. You also have sweat glands that act as antennas so they actually can draw in that radiation deep into your body

14:00 like it conducts it into your body. So I mean, this is just anyway 5G's used with 4g which has microwaves which does penetrate deep into your body you know so it's not to use separately from that so they're really just increasing the exposure with the 4g as well that benefit in terms of from the view of our controllers having 5g as beamforming you can direct and target like a specific person especially say if you have a so-called vaccine ingredients that has a Bluetooth signature that tells you exactly, it tells the system exactly who you are and where you are all the better.

14:37 Right, right. And it is good to bring up 4G 3g other signals we deal with because 5g always feels like oh this is the next thing It's coming We better watch out meanwhile were watching these YouTube videos about it on our cell phones which are already considered carcinogenic when it comes to their signals So, yeah. Absolutely. You know, let's look at what we got and not try to shift to the future because we're addicted to the current technology and we don't want to deal with what's already happening. Right? I got sick with 4G. I know people who got sick with 3g you know so that's when that rolled out was when i got really sick every new generation of this electromagnetic stuff has caused severe problems with people and i think what happens is as time goes by people get used

15:27 not a good thing, but your body gets used to it in a certain way and although it's still doing you damage because all EMF causes damage to the human cells without question. You don't feel it Okay of certain people though I know you do Shannon But right ever since the advent of electricity if we go back into the mists of time, you know in there in the mid 19th century People were suffering from exposure to electrical the byproduct of electricity, which is like dirty electricity. It's like the overspill from electric wires, which happens all the time anyway and people were falling ill then! The famous story that I heard when i did my research on this was that when the American railroads began crossing the continent out to the west and everything once they got going the telegraph wires were all down one side of the train itself and I can't remember whether it was left or right side but whichever it was

16:26 Quite often passengers have been sitting on that side next to the telegraph lines for a very long journey of course, in some cases thousands of miles were feeling really bad effects of exposure. The electrical current overspill from the telegraph wires at the side of the tracks This is going back a long time and i think the human body is probably adapted itself again not in a good way to cope with that kind of thing but as each new generation comes along then. More more adverse effects being saying no course eight generation is most severe than the others so we know what's in the first one wasn't that bad,

17:08 and then so on until we reach the 5G situation. And 5g is really, really insidious and it's really dangerous to us all even though the majority of us unlike Shannon don't feel those effects necessarily but it's still doing severe cell damage to us all. Yeah right and like Greg said yeah also just might not necessarily think about that you know because you know we have epidemic levels of brain fog and insomnia Not feeling good. Of course, you're gonna blame that on a virus or whatever and we forget how we used to feel before this So to me I always tell people try to find if you can it's harder and harder Find a place without this stuff. I mean like really without it You know power lines cell towers everything see how you feel Yeah, you know compare that's what I first did when I was questioning like what was

17:59 what was going on and that's how I really could start to pinpoint it going away. You know, I just did these experiments you know next to it away from it farther away from it out of town you know and tracked my feeling how I felt and really it's about listening to your body and being in touch with it a lot of us are getting pulled more and more out of our bodies and Greg I loved your intro I was actually had to mute myself so sort of laughing not because it's funny but it's just so you just nailed it you know? I mean that's the kind of question I ask all the time like how is this still happening? How are we actually putting up with this, you know. And like you said it's like what's the options for the future like you just gonna see if you can find a good avatar hopefully it looks better than Mark Zuckerberg and join everybody in his metaverse You know and I mean but this is what you know we're being conditioned and I think it's a very long It's been a long process over decades were being conditioned to actually disassociate with our bodies and our environments so that

18:54 we can be more easily controlled of course, but also moving us into this sort of virtual reality. And so the only way to like kind of take back our humanity and our world is to sort of start to re-embody ourselves in our environment which means you know disconnecting from this technology as much as we can more and more. Well said! Yeah I mean the thing about 5G is...I don't want to labor the point too much but the thing about 5G so many different facets to it and the so many different parts of the agenda that it fulfills one of them being, you know move towards transhumanism which is where we going if these people get their own way.

19:34 And 5G will definitely facilitate that particular aspect of their insidious agenda, sadly. But there are lots of other elements to it that are not good. I agree and just to talk about something because time goes so fast especially with two guests Let's switch gears to something that nobody would be able to predict that is in your book, falsification of science or that I would ask you about. And that is flexible glass now. Flexible glass. I think we know that there are a lot of technologies that have been suppressed. That has a whole nother chapter of your book and there's all sorts of things in the ancient world that just don't make sense. Yeah.

20:21 But I was just really interested in this, in your ancient technology and knowledge section. Let me read this quote you say flexible glass is allegedly a form of unbreakable glass that was invented during the Roman period 100 to 400 BC It is also said to be a legendarily lost invention dating to the region of the Roman Emperor Tiberius. While no physical evidence has been found so far, there are two main written sources attesting its existence. One of these is Pliny the Elder's Natural History and he didn't write fiction!

20:58 And in his natural history, Pliny reports that flexible glass was made by a skilled glass maker during the time of Tiberius. But instead of gaining the favor of the Roman emperor, the craftsman had his workshop shut down! This was thought to prevent the value of precious metals like gold silver and copper from being depreciated by this new material Damn, well I think that is so interesting and planned obsolescence is a real thing. Fragile products are more profitable but I never heard of a flexible durable glass like that very interesting thing to dig up Yeah it was quite interesting actually researching this section of the book because you know that's just one of the elements of that particular chapter Greg which you know it is very interesting apparently what happened

21:46 type areas to see this guy who invented this incredible glass and he took the glass. Any through it on the floor and obviously tired expected that was the shutter of all glass how do not point, i just bent in the guy picked up any knock back into shape again and side barry's asked if you knew when you're the guy Who are knowledge of this and how to make it on the guy said no you know its just me so i had him executed. The reason that i had an execute was as you can touch down there what's because, he had a massive hold up gold any didn't want it to be valued so we thought by killing the inventor it would suppress the invention which is exactly what happened

22:33 I mean there's no actual category proof that it did exist other than in those two particular accounts you mentioned so. It's not so much a suppressed technology is the kind of lost technology if you like, Yeah, it's a really interesting story because it rhymes with so many other stories. It rhymes with why cannabis was made illegal because it disrupted the textile industry and other things that had nothing to do with consumption or prohibition apparently was about getting alcohol out of the culture because cars could run on alcohol and they wanted it to be oil only so they could control it right? So it is a story that

23:12 has popped up many times throughout history. So I'm not super surprised by it, except that it is just a new context I hadn't heard and I should also rephrase what I said about Pliny the Elder not writing fiction because it wasn't ever promoted as fiction but as I got through this falsification of science book maybe the whole world is fiction! I don't know maybe everything we've ever been told is real actually isn't so I guess I should rephrase that but He was a serious person who didn't write about things that were framed as fiction. This was supposed to be something that you were supposed to take seriously? Yeah, absolutely! It's never known to have written anything fictional at all indeed exactly the same as Plato, the Greek philosopher who wrote about Atlantis I know we're getting off topic slightly but i'll just say this because of the parallel You know, Plato wrote about the lost continent of Atlantis

24:12 and he unearthed, goodness knows where from but he unearth a lot of information about Atlantis and the fact that it definitely did exist. And again Plato was never ever known to have written or spoken about anything fictional all his work was non-fiction so it's parallel to that and yeah you're absolutely right why would we make this up You know it's obviously perfectly plausible nobody knows how to make it today of course but. I don't think it's something we should just dismiss out of hand. No, not at all and that's such a great section of the book that people would be interested in you cover the anti-cathera mechanism You cover a 1200 year old telephone That yeah people have dug up in Peru And there was this other thing I had never heard of you talk about Han purple and Egyptian blue tell people what that's about

25:11 Right, hand purple and Egyptian blue. Yeah these were pigments created by well hand purple was created by the Chinese about 2500 years ago and it was used in the wall paintings And on the famous terracotta warriors that were discovered a few decades ago And it's also using ceramics and metal and jewelry It's actually you know an incredible technological wonder you know it's made to a complicated process of grinding up materials in precise proportions and heating it to incredible temperatures and it wasn't able to be recreated until nineteen ninety two when the finally discovered its composition so yeah, it was one of those things that

25:59 Some research has actually discovered that it had some amazing properties, including the ability to emit powerful rays of light in the infrared range as well as being able to collapse three dimensions down to two under the right conditions. And it dates back as far as 800 BC. So yeah, it's an amazing substance and nobody really knows how the Chinese stumbled upon the idea or how to create it what they did actually combined silica or sand with copper and barium in absolutely precise proportions, and heated it to around a thousand degrees centigrade. So yeah it could have been a byproduct of the glass making process but you know apparently barium tends to make glass shinier and cloudy which means that the pigment could be the work of early alchemists trying to synthesize so yeah again it's one of those mysteries

27:01 It has been recreated, but nobody really understands how the Chinese managed to do it and make it so incredibly complex. It has fluorescent properties and quantum physicists from places like Stanford in Los Alamos reported that hand purple when exposed to extreme cold and powerful magnetism, the chemical structure of the pigment enters a new state what's that called the quantum critical point in which three dimensional material actually loses dimension is quite amazing i mean it's just

27:41 You know, it's just mind-blowing really It really is and Oftentimes I'll interview people about the ancient megaliths And how could they build this and look how straight these lines are and that's all interesting But these other little things they never really get talked about now. There's another weird thing you talk about called the Greek fire that the Byzantines of the 7th and 12th century fired this mysterious substance at their enemies in naval battles it was a fiery liquid that they shot through some sort of tubes and It burned in water and could only be extinguished with vinegar sand and urine And we still do not know what this chemical weapon known as Greek fire was comprised of yeah, and

28:29 Yeah. the ancient Romans had created the glass with silver and gold particles that were ground down to be as small as 50 nanometers in diameter. This is less than 1,000th of a grain of salt and suggests that the Romans knew what they were doing meaning that they had knowledge of nano-particles. Correct yeah I mean wow! Yeah i mean thing about the lysurgist cup when the light strikes the cup the electrons within the particle vibrate

29:16 in ways that actually alter the color depending on whereabouts you're looking at it from, so from the position of the observer. So when different liquids are actually poured inside the cup and it's struck by light, the electrons behave differently which changes the color obviously and apparently I'm not an expert on this but apparently I've been told that this is precisely how pregnancy tests work but obviously the Romans got there first! That reminds me of this light therapy being used today that uses color and light for healing. Yeah, like so sunlight going through colored glass for instance or say like a tungsten or incandescent light you can use there's a whole book called I haven't read it yet myself but let there be light i think it's out of print but you could still get it

30:08 It actually specifically tells you what ailments, what color to use and how long and everything. I met a woman in Mexico who was actually getting colored glass bottles and just putting water on them and setting it in the sun. She was healing people, locals all kinds of things with this water they drink after it's been in the sun with the colored glass. This is why people think possibly stained glass in cathedrals was for healing purposes and that cathedrals themselves were designed as as healing spaces. Yes, not for religious ceremony? Yeah yeah I've heard this too. Right it seems like at least some of these structures were already there or adapted when the Inquisition steamrolled their way through and they're like hey these are things we made and we made them just to worship our God and it's like that's how they kind of took a lot of the meat out of these structures

31:02 Yeah, and I've also seen research that claims that...I mean i don't know how much truth there is in it but it sounds plausible to me. That cathedrals were actually transmitters and receivers of energy yeah? Yeah! Yeah, I mean there's so much obviously that's hidden from us and lost on purpose It's probably in the basement of the Vatican all this information if we could get there But you know they want us to believe through so-called science we're constantly evolving in one direction, and only always getting better so that then we believe all new technologies means progress. And enlightenment or something and like it's this linear view of the world in history. And I just think that's completely wrong. Yeah. So once you don't buy that, and you realize that's a lie, why they're telling us that then you can understand that the ancients may have obviously, you know, it seems there was evidence had

31:58 technologies that are lost to us, that are actually much more intelligent design and healthier for us. And we weren't just primitive ape-like beings that lived in caves and couldn't speak and gradually got to this point. I mean... We can see this sort of de-evolution even in our lifetimes when terms of health and physical well being even mentally cognitively IQ's dropping so obviously that's not true you know, just within our own lifetimes we see that. Yeah I mean the themes...the overall themes of both my books Falsification of History and its sister volume The Falsification of Science which we've just been talking about the running theme through that is that history and science are falsified to promote the agenda that they want us to hear. You know then the powers-that-be that rule over us

32:52 are few number in other the thousands where a billion the only way over the centuries and millennia that they been able to control them because it's the same multi generational families, i'm still in charge as it was you know back when the only way that they can control. A billion people is by creating this false state of reality which involves no Erasing history changing history erasing certain elements of science. Suppressing stuff and this is being the case for many many years and what my books do is they highlight some, is only some of those actual examples in both fields you know history and science. No there's obviously way too much going on to cover the whole thing but it just kind of a taste of the reader if you like

33:42 Yes yes and that really is the name of the game today as i just kind of cherry picked a few things from these between the two books 1400 pages. I tried to get you in trying to shoehorn as much in as possible but that chapter about ancient technology and knowledge contained a lot of stuff i had never heard about, But to get past the cherry picking and dive right into the meat, when it comes to the falsification of science you put the target largely on The Royal Society and their interlocking cooperation with Freemasonry. Talk to us a bit about that history and the rise of The Royal Society and what really they're responsible for? Yeah I mean

34:25 The two things Freemasonry and the Royal Society are intrinsically linked. The Royal Society, for those who are not aware is a British organization ostensibly but it is the be all and end all of what's acceptable science or what isn't and when you bear in mind that that is totally control under the control of Freemasonry which again is an integral part of the elite powers-that-be and part of this group that suppress ideas, that suppress history, that suppress science and change history and change science to their own model. We can understand the scientific world or the scientific data and information that we hope to be true, we hope to be truisms are very far from that okay? So basically it's all run by secret societies, The Freemasons of course

35:24 I mean, the Royal Society was founded in about 16...the mid 1600s. I can't remember the exact date and it was created with the intention of promoting scientific inquiry rather than this simple acceptance of received wisdom which is so ironic but you know that it's actually the opposite of that and then in the early 1700s Freemasonry kind of began to grow and spread throughout Europe, first of all. And it gradually got its tentacles into the Royal Society and it's through the Royal Society that they're able to promote fake science and to lie to us to a massive extent about what's real and what isn't real in science

36:14 It's thoroughly controlled. You do not get to become a senior person in the Royal Society without being a Freemason, without being a Senior Freemason and I think most people understand that Freemasonry is a very strong controlling influence over accepted knowledge and wisdom as well as scientific truths so yeah it's very insidious you know, all underhanded stuff. It's all controlled by people who should not be in that position of power because of the vested interest that they hold in determining what their agenda is and the agenda that mainstream follows so yeah it's no good. Can I add to that John? Sure. So yeah just as an example Edward Jenner who came up with this vaccine idea

37:07 He wasn't just some humble country doctor like they like to tell us. He was also a member of the Royal Society and high-ranking master Freemason, he was Master of the Lodge that Darwin family frequented along with The Prince of Wales who later became king and so these are like you know... he is up there and also his uncle I think he was the one getting him into the recommended him to the Royal Society which was John Hunter, who was actually known for his grave robbing expeditions exploits because he did a lot of dissections and they consider him the father of modern surgery. So they were actually relatives so when you really look into this deeply all these fathers of whatever immunology I mean they're all involved in this Royal Society and Freemasons

38:00 Going back even further, you also see the influence of the Vatican and the Jesuits because you've got Copernicus and Galileo coming up with these ideas. This fake science backed by the Pope in the Vatican. And then the Jesuits themselves started a lot of secret organizations. You've got like the Skull & Bones and all these fraternities with the Jesuit ties who... Their whole mission was to infiltrate through these societies through like literary clubs, you know book clubs and things to get into the education aspect right. So yeah there's interlocking groups I think but definitely like different players as well and you know it's hard to know how many of them actually are working together

38:47 but it does seem like there's a kind of common goal. Yeah well just I mean just to expand a little bit on Jenner you know that's a great example of the idea that we're contemplating here, but Jenner wasn't even a proper doctor i mean he only bought his doctorate I can't remember how much he paid for it, but it was like 17 pounds or something. Yeah which is a lot of money in those days to be fair you know that where that was like...I don't know what the conversion rate is but there were several thousand pounds but the fact is he wasn't even qualified in medical matters! He was just placed there by the Royal Society or by whoever yeah he apprenticed with his uncle Hunter for a couple years and that was it yeah I mean that wasn't so uncommon back then

39:32 I'm not to like say that it's better now because we have the AMA and you know, people are you know go through the proper channels and they got their proper degrees because that's not necessarily. But when we're talking about allopathic medicine which isn't really to me real medicine then its a whole different scene but thats what sort of taken over with the AMA and similar groups as a monopoly in order to push out actual healers anybody who might be anybody who could help you heal and so now we have the doctors with a degree is it's like buying it versus going through that system as hardly any different results. Yeah I mean another one of the most famous members of the rossi to guide by the name of Isaac newton invented gravity and use that word invented very

40:22 Very careful. That leads me right into kind of what I wanted to say because we're going to scale this up, you know with the last 10-15 minutes of the first hour here You kind of say that when it comes to The Royal Society and their quote unquote contributions to the world They're kind of grouped into three main pillars of modern science and what we seem to think, we understand about reality. The Big Bang Theory, the theory of evolution and the globe earth in these three things which we've all talked about before so I don't think anybody's getting too triggered by that but they kinda all support each other in interlocking way and they're all kinda designed to make us feel like meaningless specks in a random universe

41:07 And they have a lot of psychological effects on us. But, of them I wanted to talk about dinosaurs because it's an issue that people don't think about very much but as you look deeper into it... It's kind of odd that there are a lot of inconsistencies here and you make great points in the book that build up to a case where this is a big fabrication- Of course it supports evolution Or their idea of evolution, the reason you'd make it up. It supports evolution. It supports this idea that we could all be wiped out at any time by a big asteroid and it also curiously ties into oil because the oil men would tell us oh well they're fossil fuels, its a limited resource so the price is going to be jacked

41:54 and it could all go away. So there are reasons to lie about giant lizards in the ancient past that might not be immediately obvious, but talk to us about the perception versus reality when you went down this rabbit hole and why you've concluded that dinosaurs are just a royal society invention? Yeah absolutely well obviously taking evolution as the basis for that particular idea Evolution came along in the mid 19th century is most people know It was proposed by allegedly by a guy named charles darwin who had a handler by the name of thomas henry huxley, who is the grandfather of all this looks like the famous novel brave new world you know in other words they were inside us down itself. What's the senior free mason and i do quite right click dinosaurs what i refer to as a prop

42:53 they prop up the theory of evolution. Notice that the word theory in that, yet it's taught to schoolchildren and everyone else assumes it to be fact even though it is still called The Theory Of Evolution. In fact even Darwin himself doubted it at the end of his life and there are several examples in his letters some which I quote from that bear out that premise, that he wasn't absolutely convinced by it. But it was promoted very heavily. And you mentioned also... Sorry, he also had a handler with Thomas Huxley right? Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah. Huh? And it was Thomas Huxley grandfather of Aldous Huxley who was the one who really promoted it he's just like out there saying hey this Darwin guy came up with this and he's the one really promoting it and Darwin's they're like hey hold on a second you're kind of putting the cart before the horse. Then you got George Orwell well that's his pen name right who is a student of Huxley actually. He happened to have him as like a French teacher

43:53 I didn't actually know that Shannon, thank you for that gem. Yeah that's interesting yeah but just to get back to the dinosaur situation okay so isn't it miraculous that the first dinosaur fossil was never found until just about the same time as the theory of evolution was being proposed? there are so many fake dinosaur fossils out there, well they're all fake because these beasts did not exist and certainly not in the way that we're told. These huge Tyrannosaurus rex's which serious animal anatomists and paleontologists, serious ones not the mainstream ones will actually tell you

44:36 a Tyrannosaurus Rex is absolutely impossible. That body structure is absolutely impossible, it would just topple over its head weighs too much its tail's not heavy enough to support the whole structure and design of that body type so yeah there were a couple of... The brothers tell about the brothers! That's the funniest story to me about this too dinosaur bone hunters. Are they brothers? No, they weren't brothers no they were friends! They became bitter rivals and they embarked on this spree of one-upmanship about who could discover the most dinosaur types and this went on for several decades in the 19th century

45:18 And they came up with all these weird and wonderful ideas for what constitutes a dinosaur's, you know, just based on like a tiny alleged bone fragment or a tooth. And they were drawing these incredible visual representations of what they believe these animals to look like based on these tiny, tiny fragments of something or other. And it was later discovered that almost 90% of what they did was sheer fakery That's what's funny isn't it because the authorities let's say right, the Smithsonian and whatever were like

45:54 Okay, well all these hundreds you sent us like at least 300. These are fake but we'll take these couple We'll say these are real Why would you even ever? You've determined these people are frauds utter frauds And then you still say that they're right about like one or two of them for some small percentage Like how does that even happen? How are they not completely discredited forever it doesn't make any sense Right and you have some quotes in the book from paleontologists talking about The fact that everything we see on display at the museum is just fake but they represent the true dinosaur bones which are hidden away down in the basement. So they say, but it's an interesting point that

46:37 This idea came from Sir Richard Owen just as a concept the classification Dinosauria meaning giant lizards and he was from the Royal Society. He came up with this in 1842 yeah, and then all of a sudden all these dinosaur bones are found yet No culture in the world had ever discovered a single dinosaur bone or fossil before he came up with this concept And then all of a sudden they're everywhere. Basically, magically and another thing that's interesting I saw meme once probably on one of the flatter things that I follow but it was a real head scratcher and it was just that dinosaurs as we know them

47:19 Think about them in sexual positions. When you think about a T-Rex or a brontosaurus, or so many of the dinosaurs they've presented to us and picture them mating? It does not work! Yeah it's really enduring image that thank you for that. Dinosaurs mating lovely I had not thought of that before yeah something keep you up at night absolutely yeah None of the bones on display at any of the natural history museums throughout the world are real. And as you say, there are real ones but they're kept away from prying eyes because they're too palatable and they're all in the basement. But there is actually—and I mention this in the book—

48:04 there's a huge factory in sechuan province and china, actually dedicate themselves to manufacturing false dinosaur bones and they actually post about the fact that the supply all the major natural history museum such as miss onion. the Natural History Museum in London and all throughout the world with these fake dinosaur bones, and they even tell us how they make them. And it's there in black-and-white on the internet telling us that all these bones are fake. Although they're not really saying the ones hidden in the basement, they're saying the ones on the spawning. Corduries represent a real thing that you can't see or access! Right? Just like we can't access the moon only in this special elite feud

48:52 Yes, well here we go. So yeah, you know dinosaurs are just an example of the wider premise you're putting out here which is that a lot of science and whole fields have been made up paleontology the fossils of dinosaurs which are kept within this tight circle Not to go too much into the medical stuff, but virology another tightly controlled field that convinces us that viruses are the cause of almost all illness and then NASA constantly getting caught with CGI space stuff and astronauts on wires and all kinds of things. That make you think they're just bubbles in space full of shit too, of course

49:28 Well, here's the thing though. So a lot of these ideas like let's say flat Earth because the Earth is at a macro scale that is hard for a human to really verify for themselves and then viruses are at a micro scale that's also kind of outside the realm of what I feel like I'm ever going to be able to verify to feel 100% on either one of these things. I think they're interesting. I keep them up in my head with other ideas as possibilities But, I guess when I start to think about these things all being fabrications from a source like the Royal Society.

50:07 I would think that as time had gone on, they would be even more protective of this stuff. But it's a little risky when anyone can get a degree in paleontology or virology. It's not easy you got to go through a lot of hoops but people can do it and if these were fabrications from the beginning You would think that they'd be more protective over the ideas to the fact that regular folks like you and I couldn't even get degrees in this field. What do you, what in these fields? What do you think about it? I'll say that first of all as long as they own the media and the politicians and regulators doesn't really matter because a lot of scientists who go through these degrees come out as whistleblowers

50:49 You know, they do. They see that and they write books and they talk on podcasts or whatever but does the average person ever hear about it? No. And if they do, they're just discredited as some loony fringe scientist you know, the fringe doctors like we're seeing that over and over again with pandemic stuff so it's the same theme. So I think also though when you go through that doctrination program which is several years long and full of trauma based mind control You're not really the same person when you come out of that and it's very hard think about ours just you and I, you know you Greg like growing up in the things we were taught and what we believed for a very long time.

51:24 not because based on our own observations or anything, but because of it's like how you're even conducting observations and thinking about them. You already have this mindset and you're already seeing it through your own rosy colored glasses that are gonna give you... You know, you're seeing a certain way, you're biased, and they don't see their own bias so lot of people are believers who are in these programs who are scientists and they just are not able to take off those filters Yeah, I mean the key thing for me is that whistleblowers tend not to get a platform obviously because mainstream as Shannon kind of mentioned Whistleblowers they're not given a mainstream platform so they don't reach a wide audience But I've got a great quote here that I put in the book. I think it was in the book but It's one of my presentations that I do on The Three Pillars Of Fake Science and I'd like to read this quote out. It's just a couple minutes if I may

52:21 This is from a guy by the name of Sam who didn't want his surname to be known and it goes like this. He's a molecular biologist, by the way. Okay? He said and I quote, To be a molecular biologist requires one to hold on to two contradictory insanities at all times One It would be insane to believe in evolution when you can see the truth for yourself 2. It would be insane to admit you don't believe in evolution, all government work research grants papers big college lectures everything would stop I'd be out of a job or relegated to the outer fringes where i couldn't earn a decent living The work I do in genetic research is honorable but in the meantime we have to live with elephant in the living room

53:12 Intelligent design is that elephant in the living room it moves around takes up an enormous amount of space, loudly trumpets bumps into us knocks things over eats a ton of hay and smells like an elephant. And yet we have to swear it isn't there. Yeah i was a great quote i like that i like that so One of my other big questions because we're talking about epic lies these lies if they are real wise I mean, they are the biggest lives We've ever been told things like round-earth viruses dinosaurs and even nukes which we haven't gotten into yet If they're all fabrications of the Royal Society

53:54 Why don't we see in today's world smaller nations or leaders outside of the network calling them out on these things? Because there are a lot of smaller nations that the West has exploited and dominated throughout time, but now they're all interconnected. So communication can really travel yet they don't seem to call the elite out on trying to foist some of this fake science onto the rest of the world because the West is not everything Well, yeah. I mean- They do sometimes. What was it? It's a similar scenario, isn't it? Yeah, it's the same. You know they don't get a platform. These people such as they are and they're in a vast minority because most of the First World nations and a lot of the Second or Third World nations too are controlled by

54:43 our friend Mr. Schwab in the WEM, he had a program called Young Leaders and he's put his placement in all these countries anyone who shows any form of dissent whatsoever is either deposed or worse okay so anything that these people speak about it suppressed by the mainstream because at the end of the day the mainstream media works for one group only and that is the people who run the world okay they don't work for we the people And when you're a smaller country, you're even more easily controlled in some ways. I mean it's so easy to buy out these leaders or just get rid of them if they start... We've seen it happen over and over again. Gaddafi was... So many of these leaders are executed as soon as they don't play ball and they know that. It's like who is going to dare step out?

55:30 of lying. And they do sometimes, I forget what African countries that...I mean was it during the pandemic with the PCR which tested all these different fruit and everything and pretended there were people? John Magafuli, that was publicized and then a few weeks later oh dear he was dead! Yeah coconut tested positive for COVID. Yeah, and COVID did show us how much coordination there really is in the world when they really want to cash in those chips and make everybody fall in line. That is true. Some of this stuff though it's just so epic but you know whistleblowers do help to make the case and I've heard some from the medical field but I haven't really heard a very many insiders from NASA that became whistleblowers

56:18 or paleontologists who became whistleblowers, or nuclear physicists that have become whistleblowers. If there are some obviously I'd love to hear about them if you have any other examples? I can't think of any examples off the top my head but what i will say is obviously there are whistleblowers that's how this information gets out into public domain. Yeah yes it's very infrequently and its very sparse, the amount of information that we do get to hear about but nevertheless it is out there you know mean i found all the stuff yeah i didn't make it up it is all out there if your diligent enough and doing research which by the way

56:59 gets more and more difficult as each year goes by because of the censorship of the internet. Certain topics are just absolutely, they're being deleted, they're being removed from the internet so it gets more and more difficult to do your research but nevertheless it's still not impossible. Yeah, they don't even have to remove anything, they just make it impossible to search for. Yes that's right. It's wild I mean these are some Questions people have an so to talk flat earth is something that we've done whole shows on in the past and i don't really know how big a segment we will dedicate to it today.

57:41 but the last time we spoke maybe two thousand sixteen i think that might have been before interview derrick to bear may be it right around the time but i didn't necessarily know you are on this page john but im curious if you could talk with about. The path of the biggest things that caused you to consider it Yeah, well first of all I haven't been down this path for very long. You know a couple of years at the very most so was it 2016 when last we spoke? My goodness! Yeah it's crazy Wow Okay yeah It's only the last couple of years that I've come to this and to be honest like a lot of people who go down the flat earth route I actually set off down there to try and disprove it To try and disprove in my own head because I couldn't believe it

58:30 I'm not going to many many people you know people i am. Yeah several people dave murphy in the uk about it and they are a lot of those people, when exactly the same route as me that they thought that was just nonsense so the try to back with facts on the start of the house looking at because of Someone sent me some information about it and I read it and I thought yeah that all seems to make sense But I still don't believe it. And it was a very gradual process over a couple of years You know at first I was like 50-50, and then I went 75 25 and then 90 10 and then internally in the last shall we say? I Don't know six months that I've actually I'm now 100% but its plot because he just fits into everything else Although I suspected it earlier

59:25 when I was writing Falsification of Science, I was still a slight skeptic. But not now! I have never come across anything now and this has just happened in the last few weeks that the globe earth is propound as proof of a globe earth being refutable there is nothing absolutely nothing everything that they come out with it's possible to refute with flat earth arguments. And that is what's tipped me into being 100% now, because I've not heard a single argument that can't be refuted Well, there are some specific experiments too that have happened right? That you could talk to us about like the Bishop experiment or the Bedford level experiments. How convincing were those for you? Very convincing I mean it speaks volumes! The Bishop experiment was a very simple one A guy by the name of Tom Bishop off top my head he took a telescope at one end of Monterey Bay

1:00:25 in your neck of the woods or reasonably near your neck of the woods. And he watched through this telescope people walking in the sea at the far end of the bay which was 23 miles away and you saw people walking their dogs along the beach and people just generally having fun, in the surf and the sea and the sand! That sounds okay that sounds fine but The problem with that is, from a globe-Earth perspective, is that over 23 miles using the globe-earth curvature calculation it should have been impossible to see those people. They would have disappeared over the curve of the horizon at that distance and this is just one example I mean there are many many instances of an impossible viewpoint on the globe earth that are actually real now the globe earthers will come out and tell us it's something to do with refraction

1:01:20 Yeah that's always funny, it's just the trick of the light that you can suddenly see. That's another one it's just utter nonsense but there are examples throughout the world of viewpoints that are just impossible there is a particular one in Italy where you can see the island of Elba about 100 miles from the mainland quite clearly with binoculars and people say this business about when a ship sails away You can see it disappears, it dips over the horizon. Nonsense! It doesn't. All that happens if it disappears from your vision and within our vision we have something called a vanishing point which is all about perspective you know as two lines converge into the distance the ship will disappear from our vision which obviously has limitations

1:02:09 But if you get a pair of binoculars out from your coat pocket and train the binoculars on the point where the ship disappeared, well lo and behold it appears again until eventually reaches the binocular's vanishing point and then disappears again. It has absolutely nothing to do with sailing over the curvature of the Earth Right. So I mean there's so much stuff like a cover in this but you know the one that gets me because i'm from The midwest is Chicago, you can see chicago maybe now with the naked eye Maybe on the right day you can but with binoculars You can see chicago across lake michigan correct at at a distance of 40 miles Well, that's right The earth is only supposed to be 26 000 miles around so you do the calculation That should make it

1:02:55 thousand feet below sea level yet you can see the whole city from the base not just the tips of the tops of skyscrapers, but the whole city skyline. Not even skyline but just line and that's odd! That really doesn't make any sense and it's a kind of silly example when I hear we're told the earth orbits at 66,600 miles per hour my eyebrows raise a little. Yeah so I mean the other thing about that Chicago skyline vision as well is that

1:03:32 Well not just that but anything that is that far away if it is disappearing over the curvature of the globe wouldn't the buildings be leaning backwards? I suppose so. You'd only see the tops! Well you can argue things there's distortion when you use lenses either when you use a microscope or telescope, you have distortion with the lens. When you have longer lens things are compressed and flattened so you would probably have harder time seeing angles like that I'm just going to play devil's advocate for that but I want to touch on that quickly because earlier you were saying Greg that microscopes and telescopes

1:04:10 You know, these actually both of those came out around the same year at the same time. And this was like you know after the round earth theory emerged and things so it's really interesting timing and of course again Royal Society you know all the elite bringing us these wonderful tools but all the while we're forgetting that there's distortion involved and we should always keep that in mind like when use a microscope I mean they have to use like staining dyes and things it's not like you're not really seeing, are we seeing reality? Good point. It's through some kind of distortion so and so we're not able to really verify with that it's not pure science, pure observation yes yeah right on well

1:04:56 Man, we jammed in quite a lot into this two hours and I thought it was a lot of fun. I just kind of wanted to get back to exploring some big epic ideas with less doom and gloom question everything in a non-combative not emotional curious way and you know just see what kind of odd facts are out there and these things do make you wonder just how deep the lies and false paradigms go. And if they've lied to us about some things that we can prove, then we should probably take a look at most of the other things we take for granted everyone's free to make up their own mind but A lot of these little threads are just really curious to me and I appreciate your both let the people know where they can find you online and pick up your work

1:05:39 Sure, can I know we're over our time but I know you love this Greg because we didn't get to talk about the s-teric stuff very much numbers and things but somebody just brought to my attention that the Queen died exactly 311 days after the pandemic was declared which was declared on March 11th. Three love that was a section I definitely was gonna leave to the cutting room floor, but just real quick since you brought it up. I mean there are a lot of things in welcome to the masquerade prelude to The Great Reset that you bring up when it comes to the esoteric naming and symbolic aspects of some of this. Obviously, Corona means crown but there are other syncs like apparently radiation on power lines is called corona discharge so there's that hey was it 5G? Was it a virus kind of thing and then Corona is the goddess of plagues and COVID backwards is the name of a Hebrew demon called Divak! Yeah amazing right that means to divide

1:06:40 And what is this done more than anything? This crisis divide us. I mean, really effectively hats off to them for that right so often they tend to use old gods and goddesses either in name or symbol for their operations and it does seem like some kind of magic steering our attention to dark forces maybe the fallen angels from the higher plane uh and they're like well no these are your new gods yeah you know and there's the anagrams coronavirus, you can change up the letters to con or a virus. I love that is what actually the anagram for you've got a lot of the players in this like Dr. Fauci as IC fraud with an anagram and so it's like Elon Musk is lone scum. There's just like- Wasn't Omicron was moronic too? Moronic, yeah.

1:07:34 Yeah, but there's the numbers. It's like I always point people to Zachary Hubbard. I don't know if you know his work Yeah, he's been here Okay great yeah, I mean I read his book and his book was it called numbers games is really incredible He made some great links even without the numbers added all these coincidences of events You know that young covers are amazing But there's a lot of numbers that have cropped up over during the last couple of years with statistics and 56 and 44, 33 and 22. And once you actually just those I just told you if you are aware of them in a significance mesoterically then start to see it everywhere but 11 being like the master number in Freemasonry, 22 being that master builder number

1:08:22 33 is also a Freemason number. You know, that's the 33 is the highest level in that order and it's also we have like 33 vertebrae you find it in nature and what I think is that like a lot of this actually happens naturally which is what leads a lot of people to think well matrix right because even apart from these players using these numbers where in cases where they can manipulate the data whatever decide to use them or decide on a certain date for a certain event, we can kind of see in our own personal lives like things happening that have nothing to do with them it seems right where the same numbers come up over and over again. Like your license plate with your address or this address is all coming to the same thing in one of the numerology codes or gematria as also called so I've started to pay attention to that and it's amazing to me. I mean I'm so used to it now my go of course 11 or courses you know 11 million

1:09:17 666, whatever. And you know, so it's like they've got their reasons I mean it's more involved than that that's a very you know basic introduction, we don't have time to get into it. And I haven't, I can't say I'm an expert and I've gotten into it that much really, I probably just touched the surface of it because there's several different ciphers and but if you were, you know, you could see possibly at least they believe that using certain numbers has certain power and gives them certain power. And I mean, I started just playing around with the Hollywood actresses and actors names and doing just this basic numerology and seeing the same things coming up again a lot of 311s

1:09:55 or 22, 1122-2222. You know a lot like so many and a lot of these actors change their names you know it's not their birth names and so this is somehow giving them success does it just happen naturally if you change your name to that number? Or you never what so pretty interesting stuff For sure, for sure. Man we could probably go all day there are so many chapters we didn't even touch on and we barely even touched on Welcome to the Masquerade but yeah we can obviously do this again sometime and luckily we aren't locked into any real format so if it's two hours or two hours in 15 minutes who really cares I think that people appreciate it regardless but just to put a finer point on it tell us about your websites and where they can go and all that good stuff

1:10:44 So mine is wifi refugee.com but wifi hyphen refugee dot com so hyphen in the middle and you can contact me there join my mailing list get information about my books I'm writing another book currently mean, I don't know if your listeners gonna be interested in hearing more about what thing that you've been going on and on about but I am writing the jab in more detail. And John and I are also working on our transhumanist book, so all that information will be there and the podcasts are all there as well. So for me my website is falsificationofhistory.co.uk There are lots of articles on there

1:11:26 My amazon author page just go to amazon dot wherever you are in the world and type my name in a search bar. And my book should come up i also have a bit shoot channel called john official three separate words, i'm quite a few interviews on there is not been updated for a few weeks but shannon i planning on doing about an update very shortly so yeah that's three places and Yeah, I mean if anyone wants to contact me for whatever reason just to shout at me or abuse me or say hello. He loves abuse! We all like a bit of abuse yeah my email address is jch120752 at gmail dot com and you know please feel free to get in touch alright alright

1:12:15 All right. Bold, bold be nice people if you do reach out you're representing the show okay so be nice but man I just had a great time John Shannon thanks again yeah thanks Greg bold stuff you guys are doing enjoyed it i can't believe it's been six years the world has definitely changed a lot since then and we won't let six years go by for the next one well i hope not it's been great thank you very much i don't know if we got six years but yes thank you guys take care All the best. Oh, hallelujah people end in the year right with the conspiracy dial firmly in the red going about as far out as we can go and just having some fun with it obviously We've had a lot of heavy episodes this year trying to get to the bottom of some very serious issues And so I checked in on John's latest work because we did have two really good interviews way back when

1:13:13 And clearly he's added a lot of new material to his repertoire and bringing Shannon along was just a nice compliment to what I was already pretty sure would be a good one. Maybe you can sense that this episode has a little bit of a different vibe, and i'm hoping so because... ...I guess the overarching point I was trying to make to you guys with this one is that we don't always have to come to a conclusion on something to consider it Nor do we have to be so damn firm on being in this camp or that camp. I've popped into the Telegram group a few times recently to make some points about this, but let's use the viruses example Some people have become 100% convinced that viruses aren't real Or basically they aren't the cause of illness... Okay

1:14:04 So the gain of function stuff and did COVID come from a lab question, that's just noise to them. They often consider it fear porn because from their perspective no one can create a pandemic of any kind except through media hype and fear and then injecting you with the toxin when you gave into that fear otherwise they can't hurt ya So if you come from that perspective, then you hear a THC with Dr. Robert Malone or even Dr. Jessica Rose... Or anyone who uses the term virus or contagious or pandemic even just in passing You close your mind to it. You have decided that it has no value because you're already over in this other camp Well that is your right but there are some colleagues of mine who completely ignore The viruses don't make us sick camp

1:14:55 They think it's silliness and they won't even entertain it. And I'm not going to name names, but they have been criticized in the Telegram group fine So that's not what I'm trying to do! I'm not trying to censor any perspective from anyone that I think has something to offer us regardless of where they fall on the virus thing or even the flat earth thing because there are some interesting points in both instances That kind of make you scratch your head if you're being honest about it But if I'm gonna be open, then I need you guys to be open too and at least meet me in the middle right? There's nothing more frustrating than a comment like well this guy mentioned space five minutes in so I had to turn it off. Really?! How do you go through a day if you only communicate with flat earthers! A lot of people do business with all sorts of folks who believe in space

1:15:49 but won't do business with THC because they might say I support the space lie. Nobody's perfect, but they kind of expect me to be! Do these same people grill every server on flat earth before they get a tip? Because that's kinda what you're doing to ME. Like if i don't check EVERY box then YOU can't support... or forget support, you just can't even enjoy a show that I put out But consider my position. I want to be open to any interesting and insightful guest, but if that openness isn't appreciated then it's very easy for a person in my spot to just say that's it these flat earthers or these virus hoax people are just so damn uncompromising that I can't even open that door anymore again! I have colleagues who have closed that door for good or have never even opened it to begin with

1:16:46 There's really only a few ways to be here. Besides, I get turned down all the time because a potential guest will check out the previous shows and scan the titles and if they see things they don't like, they decline! So even have the flat earth or virus conversation is almost a lose-lose for me It cuts off my access to some really great people on completely unrelated subjects Because they're turned off by The Association And listeners who like that stuff are the quickest to walk away if they don't hear every guest agree with these extremes in every interview. Just think about that a little bit, and if you're sick of me and THC that's alright shows have life cycles and people's rotation I get that

1:17:37 But to say, I liked you for years until you had X on and now I can't listen at all. Okay well how about you just skip that one? This is sounding a lot more negative and chastising than it did in my head. I really don't mean it to be that way! I just wanted to make a few points about toning down the tribalism and the us-verse them attitude when it's really just supposed to be an exploration of ideas and theories, and really a journey. To use a very cringe word that everyone uses these days I mean you can think the flat earth is a psyop And also appreciate all the other things John has to say right? His work on The Titanic and his two volumes on all the banker shenanigans are just great So he's onto some new stuff that you don't totally accept so what

1:18:33 No matter where a person falls on some of these issues, I've been in the game long enough to be able to find the common ground with them and say yeah time-lapse photography of the stars really does seem off to me. Or you're right why are flights from Auckland to Argentina stopping in Dallas Texas? Or for the virus thing, I can say you're right. I've read a lot of literature about trying to infect healthy people in the lab from sick people and it doesn't seem to work as easy as you'd expect or you're right every COVID paper i've seen about isolating the virus has a few lines about using computer models to fill in the holes and that is a little suspect

1:19:16 And who knows, maybe I'm just too dumb but these discrepancies don't lead me to ultimately conclude one thing over another. I say yeah they might be right and that's good enough for me but as long as our guests are trying to seek the truth and trying to help us improve our lives or expose some corruption or deceit from the system why can't that just be enough? Why can't we just meet people where they are long enough to have a two-hour conversation, extract some good insights from their area of expertise and not be so hypercritical over every little tiny detail? Ultimately that is what I was trying to provide here. Is myself as an example with John and Shannon. I've said a bunch of times over the years that an exploration of an idea is not necessarily an endorsement of it or that I'm trying to push it on you or anything

1:20:13 So that is what it is and I guess today was an attempt to lighten things up a bit. And maybe rekindle the old approach I used to have to this thing that I'm doing Like the dinosaur topic, That's something a lot of people probably take for granted as true but I swear when I saw that dinosaur sex meme It is silly but mating doesn't really work the way dinosaurs are presented to us Now maybe the reconstructions are just a bit off I think they've always said hey this is our best guess and then Hollywood runs with that and then it gets put into our head as. A concrete model that's a possibility or maybe the whole thing was a royal society hoax but i don't necessarily need to draw any line in the sand on that

1:21:05 I thought John and Shannon brought up some pretty compelling points, but then I brought up the sticking points that keep me from agreeing with them 100% and gave them the floor to respond back. I can't believe I'm describing how conversations work but man we have gotten pretty far off the mark from where we used to be It's not just THC listeners. It's really an overarching cultural problem that we don't talk to each other anymore, we silo ourselves up, and take everything so seriously... And it just seems unhealthy to me! Unhealthy AND less fun!

1:21:43 I assume you're here to be entertained, but also learn and push and pull on ideas. Not just hear a guest confirm every conclusion you might have made so that you can consider them one of the good guys or dismiss them forever Bit of a rant but...I'm letting ya know where I'm at and where I wanna be in that i'm gonna try not take everything quite so seriously Or try to manage these sorts of things that I might have sometimes I'm just not gonna let this stuff stress me out, whether or not you noticed that it does. But i totally did tie myself up in knots about well should i have Dr Malone on if even half of his resume is true? It seems like a pretty good opportunity but...i don't know Or should i reach out and do another show with John if he's now firmly a flat earther? I can see the comments in my head already so

1:22:38 You can get a taste of how it happens on both extremes, right? I can really agonize over if this is good for the show or what sort of backlash i'm gonna get. But hey! It's the end of the year and it's time to think about such things and try to retire ways of being that aren't serving me well and at least aim to change them. And that's why I'm saying all this stuff now Let's not be so opposed to others' ideas that conflict with our own. Let's not be so quick to write people off because ultimately we're just here for a short time, We're probably not going to fix the world or even get firm answers to a lot of our questions The point is just to enjoy the ride and I really want to get back to not letting criticism keep me from doing that causing me to self-censor who i might ask to be on or just overthink things in general

1:23:32 I'm gonna lighten up. I'm hoping that some of you are thinking to yourself, yeah i should probably lighten up too! I'm not saying we don't have some very serious even life-threatening way of life threatening issues coming at us but it is what it is. I'm going to try to find guests that help us navigate that and help us keep tabs on exactly what to expect and let that be the thing but i had a great time with this one John and Shannon really have covered so much ground in their work. Going after the Royal Society is really a great place to put the target, and I appreciate them both Of course, I only get paid if people think the show's first hour is good enough to come and get the second And today in The Extra Hour we talked about flat earth flight paths that are quite curious The idea that they might be hiding land from the rest of us

1:24:29 Strange reports from explorers who sought the pole that just don't really make sense. How ancient cultures viewed reality and how that story has changed over time, how paranormal experiences and abductions work in the Flat Earth model, the general strangeness of the mind and human consciousness, and how the nuclear bomb was potentially hoaxed Funny point about the nuclear mushroom cloud, I'm a big Christopher Nolan fan. Maybe not a fan but I'm interested in following his work and i like about 70% of it and I saw this article about how he hates using CGI probably one of the reasons I like him And he spent several million dollars to recreate the atomic bomb drops with practical effects for his new movie Oppenheimer

1:25:20 And it just made me think, well if you can recreate what we saw in the footage from World War II without a nuclear bomb just using practical effects then is that as unique as we were led to believe it was? I don't know. But that is the bulk of what we got into in the second hour. Come on in, the water's fine! Sign up right through the show notes of your podcast app or go to TheHigherSideChats.com and get a free 7-day trial to start you off I'm probably planning a big move this year. I'm trying to stack as much cash as I can We all have our own little challenges but if you could come over

1:26:01 to THC Plus for even just a couple of months, it would mean a lot to me. That's like eight or sixteen dollars! Do we at least enjoy the show that much? Besides it's not a handout, It's not a donation where you don't get anything back...it's actually doubling the amount of content you get but you know how math works though I will say a massive gargantuan thank-you to those who do subscribe to plus and stay subscribed I try to give you the best stuff. I can, and you really have made all my dreams come true really? But let's also take a look at the first few meetups of the new year go over to higher side meetups dot com for full details on these events or two RSVP or to set up your own but so far we got right out of the gate coming in hot January 1st in Kirkland Washington a Seattle area cold plunge and lunch with other THC fans

1:27:02 January 7th, the conspiracy theorizers are meeting again in High Springs Florida. January 12th, the Los Angeles truthers once again going to Flame International Restaurant. January 13th, The National Friday the 13th THC meetup at The National Bar in Nevada City California January 13th, the Sinspiracy Monthly. Man people do not make it easy on me reading all this stuff going to the Madtree Brewing location in Cincinnati Ohio January 14 Denver gets higher at the Mercury Cafe where they're also suggesting that you bring books to trade with your other THC peers

1:27:49 Also on January 14th, there's a meetup in Williamton North Carolina and on the 15th another Utah Hireside Bistro Meet up at Athena Beans. And we'll leave it there that covers the first half of the month good to see people getting out and being creative with the calendar That's awesome It is tough to put yourself out there sometimes and I hope any locals hearing this are coming out to any of those events if they can But that's it for me, guys. I'm actually going to end this with Peyton Justice' cover of a Bo Burnham song that really captures how I sometimes feel when I push send on a new show and i'm sure it's just the mental anguish that most people in my position feel if they care about what they're doing

1:28:37 I hope he doesn't mind and cheers to the new year. I've done my part, your move mainstream make-believers inside the box idealists and royal society stooges Your fucking move How are you feeling? Do you like this show? Are you tired of it nevermind i don't want to know are you finding it boring too fast too slow I'm asking but don't answer cause i dont wanna know Do I have your attention? Yes or no? I bet,I guess the answer but I dont wanna know Am I on in the background Are you on your phone? Id ask what are watching But I dont wanna know Is there anyone out there

1:29:40 It wouldn't make a difference still I don't wanna know I thought it'd be over by now But i got awhile to go And you don't wanna know Is there anyone out there? Or am I all alone? It wouldn't make a difference still, I dont wanna know I thought it'd be over by now, but i got a while to go. I give away the ending but you don't wanna know. We're going to go where ya don't wanna know Are you tired of it? Nevermind yes can I interest you in everything all of the time

1:30:33 A little well, well or shoes inside? Empathy's a tragedy Get on out of your seat All eyes on me, all eyes on me Never gonna end up dead in your seat All eyes on me, all eyes on me