Joe Atwill | The Hidden Hand of Power, Economic Upheaval, & Ruined Cultures

00:13 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan Maybe something there beyond what man Do it thoroughly, tested every last close-chested view We know the less we really do Without THC Cause we know they're lying to us Just don't know to what degree Without THC The hindsight checks show Greg Carr would encompany

01:00 So say we all hire side-chatters from the Sunshine State. I'm Greg Carlwood, and we've been around long enough to know that so many cultural movements and political shifts that are presented as organic grassroots and spontaneous are almost always the result of CIA engineering media manipulation or billionaire funding It's to the point that the authenticity of anything needs to be thoroughly tested. And when everyone starts acting or thinking a certain way, whether COVID tariffs are geopolitical tensions it's a good idea to wonder why that is and if the popular position is even the right one There are complex forces at play involved in sophisticated manipulation with unadvertised motivation, so why let yourself get swept up in anything? And here to remind us of such things coming back for a third time is the great Joe Atwell. You know him as the author of Caesar's Messiah—a book that makes a great case that the New Testament was crafted as Roman state propaganda by the Flavian dynasty—as well his follow-up Shakespeare's Secret Messiah

01:59 You can hear him weekly on the Powers and Principalities episodes of The R Interesting Times podcast with Tim Kelly. And with so much going on, it will be great to hear his takes! The Caesar's Messiah scribe, culture creation critic and conspiracy guru Joe, welcome back. Thanks for having me great how are you i can't complain it is a real pleasure to have you here it was one of your recent podcast episodes about tariffs that was the real catalyst for trying to get back here. And i do wanna get into that but in the time since we set this up and started conversing about when did you interview the pope died and a new pope has been chosen,

02:39 I'm not super vested in that, but I'm curious what the Caesar's Messiah author thinks about this new pope and what the agenda might be behind picking him and what it might signal for the Catholic Church. Because these appointments are very political and calculated, I would think. I would say that the College of Cardinals, the body that elects a Pope was the number one priority for basically Freemasonry in terms of acquiring your kind of cryptic control over it for the last, you know, 500 years because the College of Cardinals...the Pope was really the most important political position particularly in the Middle Ages.

03:23 even up till like the 17th century. So this has been a goal to control that, and I think they've been successful and I think the Popes...the last 10 popes have been crypto-masons basically. Hard to prove this but they certainly have not opposed sort of the modern culture in any meaningful way and that is suspicious in terms of the new one Leo XIV The first thing is he's just astonishing in his sort of intellectual attributes. Speaks seven languages, he has a degree in mathematics, he is a lawyer and he has two advanced degrees in theology. I mean this would make him, in my opinion the most educated bureaucrat in the world. He also has a background in the third world as a missionary and

04:21 His mother is Haitian, so he has some African blood in him. I think this would be basically checking every relevant box." And so it's a little strange. I mean such an individual seems a bit artificial to me. There is nothing in his background that gives me any kind of clarity as to what we can expect in the future. He's not profoundly Zionist as some of the recent popes have been. He hasn't really taken a position on that, he seems to in his public statements simply promote pacifism and he has said that you know, he's little leery of gay marriages. However in terms of like the United States, the thing that is most problematic or at least the thing that will lead to the most emotion is this position on immigration

05:15 which is, in general I think unrestrictive. He's not a strong border person and he is more someone who would look to the plight of refugees. And so that's how I think he would come across in terms of the current kerfuffle in the United States regarding immigrants And then beyond this, time will tell. I would be astonished if eventually he doesn't become clearer in terms of Zionism which has always been really the critical kind of defining point for popes in my opinion as I judge them. Paul Popes and presidents? David Yeah, exactly.

05:59 I mean, Zionism is completely in opposition to the text of the New Testament which talks about a new covenant about ending the premise, the Deuteronomy premise that Israel was given as a promised land to the Jews. So whenever Pope cuts across that basic tenet of the New Testament, I always assume it's because he is in some way under control of what I refer to as the Judeo-Masonic tribe that has so much political power.

06:37 Well, the question of where the real power is always interesting. It seems like so many groups and empires and organizations and governments are set up with a figurehead and the real power is somewhere else maybe it's with the Cardinals in this case but I'm curious what you think about the claim that the head of the Jesuits, The Black Pope is the real power behind the Vatican? Add a healthy chunk of education at saint mary's military academy in japan and jesuit run school which red flags go up but you can't control where your educated as a child i think you're pretty far from that now could you talk about it pretty regularly but what do you think about that claim that the jesuits are really there, hidden hand that moves a lot of things that really people don't highlight very often.

07:25 It's incorrect. Incidentally, St. Mary's my elementary school in Tokyo was run by the Christian Brothers. I did have Jesuit teachers because of the post-war situation in Japan being somewhat chaotic. Many of my teachers were Jesuits and so I'm guilty of that charge. But as far as the Jesuits being a kind of hidden hand...I mean this goes to the fact that they were a secretive organization And because of that, when you are a secret organization wild conjecture can be applied. I mean how can it be falsified when you are a secret organization? The Jesuits were really...it's very interesting they were part of the power of the converso. They were a Jewish organization as they started or at least they do clarify that

08:19 The organization was founded by people who had backgrounds in Judaism. They were Jewish and family members, but they had converted to Christianity obviously so this then was perceived as a problem by the Pope There were secretive aspects of the organization that had come to light. And so, the Pope put an end to this and tried to turn the organization into something that had more of a Gentile hierarchy. It's not clear if it ever really came to pass. No one really understands the Jesuits very hard to actually know how do you vet the individuals who are its authority? Just really not possible."

09:02 The thing that really produced the rumor that you're referencing was the fact that Adam Weisskopf, who was individual who founded what is known as the Illuminati, was a Jesuit trainee. They had captured him somehow as a child and trained him up And then he produced the Illuminati. And so that combined with the fact that the Jesuits were a conversa organization, there are actually books written about how they were a synagogue of Jews, this was what the original Jesuit organization was And this, of course all goes into this period where you had the Inquisition which was a critical period in European history. It's not well understood at the present time or even studied to any extent but the idea was that

09:52 Jews who were legally required to become Christians during this period, for example Britain. You couldn't be in the country if you were Jewish ostensibly you had to be a Christian but you could convert to Christianity. The Inquisition was held because they were concerned that so many people who are taking political positions of power even though they presented themselves as Christians were in fact Jewish and their background and that they retained their Judaism as a kind of political or even religious perspective, and therefore were dangerous to non-Jewish Europeans to let such an organization, a secret organization then have political power. So the Inquisition was held it went on for quite awhile. And this was what led to a lot of the rumors concerning the Jesuits because they had been clearly identified as having this background

10:51 as being founded by converted Christian Jews. So I think that the skepticism in terms of Jesuits is well-founded, I think they're probably as an organization even today are...there's controls and forces that they can't really make public. The way to understand our world is really to look at Freemasonry which I'm not sure is really an organization that they use with that much focus any longer, but for hundreds of years it was. And during that time you have the outer circle where you look into it and it doesn't seem beneficial their relatives and whatnot but there is secrecy in its hierarchy

11:37 And the only reason you would need secrecy is this, there's malevolence. I mean why else would you have it? Particularly as powerful as the secrecy of Freemasonry has been. It's just been incredible that they've been able to keep the inner sanctum something the public doesn't have any understanding over. You could suspect malevolence and The same is true with the Jesuits, who I think in many ways are kind of related to the Freemason secrecy. Our world is dominated by these secret societies. You know, you look at the power that just for example Bohemian Grove has, look at the individuals would be inside it, Skull and Bones high-level Freemasonry they all have something that the public is not permitted to understand every one of them.

12:30 When you look at all the political power that comes from their members, But you have to assume that the purpose of the secrecy is not beneficial, that when we try to understand our world as an example World War I or World War II, these are behaviors of the political class. The public doesn't go out and vote to invade Germany. I mean, the political class creates these dialectics they publicize them propaganda is generated, so the public is swayed. And then the next thing you know, armies are basically slaughtering one another." But this is a failure or an achievement of the political class. Our political class particularly for Europeans over the last 150 years has been a catastrophic failure leading to the depopulation of the European. I mean we are

13:25 well on the way to going out of existence. And so we need to look at our political class, frankly as evil and what would the evil be? Well if you look into the secret societies...I mean American presidents over half of them are just outed Freemasons and these are just the ones that are identified there obviously some of the ones who aren't or involved in that organization but then they also have...look at all the presidents who are linked into Skull & Bones or De Molay, or the Bohemian Grove. I mean suddenly you're into this large fraction of the presidents. You've like 90% of them have connections into secret societies." Well what kind of a democracy is this?

14:05 Right, that's what makes it so hard to assess Trump because he seems like a wild card. He seems like an asterisk in that lineage but yet I've grown so cynical i have to assume that is just the appearance of change because thats how they pull this off time and time again its just the appearance of change with the same old ties that bind but I could be wrong there has got to be some exception to some rule somewhere It would seem to be the case, however I doubt very much that Trump would be such a thing. I think he is from a converso family and I think that it's just very sophisticated propaganda... The political personalities are in general propaganda. They are there to create certain powers and structures in the public. Trump represents kind of an oscillation

14:58 back to a powerful white male. I mean, he has dyed blonde hair for example. So he's an actor in my opinion. The hard thing is to figure out what is actually going on because it is such... You know the move into like the promotion of transgenderism was very understandable. It was coherent right? I mean they were trying to move into the brave new world and they were going to create you know stratified Humanity. And so, when you saw the production of the autistic and the way they were promoting integration of the ethnicities and the normalization of homosexuality in the transgender. This all made perfect sense. They were moving us into the brave new world where you have strict ossification in terms of intellectuals and sex was basically a narcotic. The production of families or children would be

15:57 controlled by the state, you know? So all of that made sense when you saw Obama and Biden. This made perfect sense but then suddenly Trump comes along and he's in opposition to that. Well what actually is going on? I mean It doesn't link into a completely logical process by which humanity can be transformed. Trump seems to be reverting to like an older, healthier form of biology in a way but I doubt very much if that will last long as I've said many times the one thing you can give to the political class is trust

16:34 If you give them that, then you are going to be easily victimized by their propaganda and you'll be led right off a cliff. And we have been led off a cliff so many times Europeans may think about Marxism and Bolsheviks where they were talking about a worker's paradise. And then 30 years later or 40 years later, you had 60 million fatalities. The world wars are obviously in this milieu, they're just structured for depopulation. World War I was a battle between the grandchildren of Queen Victoria. They were all Freemasons and these wars therefore could have easily been prevented or ended very quickly but the fact that they went to these catastrophic ends with depopulation, I think it's just clear evidence that the political class is controlled and evil

17:25 I mean, I've written about World War II as being basically a continuation of World War One. Hitler was put into power by...I forget his name. It's shocking that I would forget his name but it was Ludendorff. Excuse me. Ludendorff he was the one who actually put Lenin into place. He literally put him on the train and gave them the money and sent them into Russia to bring about the transformation from a Christian empire to a Bolshevik situation. And then he was also the one who inserted Hitler between World War I and World War II, so you can see that there's this hidden hand that's just unmistakable once you get into these little details of how power is assembled and how these people are moved into place. So Trump

18:22 I am sure that eventually we'll come to see what the purpose was of this oscillation. The thing that is the most obvious when you look at where the U.S. is heading, it's a race war. All of these changes that Trump is making really most negatively affect African-Americans when they talk about meritocracy. What does that actually mean? Harvard has 20% of its class, of its freshman class last year was black. If you went to a strict meritocracy using like SAT scores, you wouldn't have even one-tenth or 1%. So meritocracy is actually kind of a code word for resegregation. I never heard it put that way but... Well, it's just what's going to happen.

19:16 Civil service jobs are the foundation of the African-American middle class or one of the foundations. So there, when you reduce civil service jobs, you impact them most negatively. And so all of these things are going to really not at first but over time they're gonna see they're really going to expose the fact that the African American was not prepared for a meritocracy And if you look at like, for example, Chicago school districts 55 schools have zero students who are proficient in either reading or math. Well we all know inner city schools are worse but I mean the quality of education combined with the lack of opportunity it seems to be affecting everybody Oh sure it does and well we're all getting...I mean obviously inflation is destructive to everyone but

20:09 I think that you're also having a promotion of violent culture in African-Americans. You know, the rap culture they use the N word endlessly and they're celebrating the behavior to violent uneducated behaviors celebrated well thats in kind of world that Biden created where you have a lot of financial subsidy of inner city when that gets taken away all that's going to be left is the violence. And I think that could be what Trump is over the long term and wanting to see happen." The thing is, Greg, even though this kind of a paranoid idea it is logical in terms of our history they set up these dialectics. The dialectic is how they manipulate you get German versus the allies

21:06 communism versus capitalism. The dialectics are set up so that the public accepts some method of depopulation. I mean, look at October 7th in Israel, right? You have Hamas. They somehow breach the Elbit automated technology. Well how is this possible It's inexplicable. How could a bunch of Hamas fighters with pickup trucks and automatic weapon reach the most sophisticated border technology ever developed, which is sold as a product to other nations? And I saw video 2017 showing how automated it was completely automated. They had automated Gatling guns, automated visual observation every square inch of the border

21:58 And yet we're led to believe that in 15 cases, you know, a couple hundred of these guys in pickup truck breached this and then went out into Israel slaughtering bikini-clad people at a rave event. and beheading babies. Well, gee that makes a lot of sense there's a military strategy that's going to give you public advantage in public opinion I mean it's just ridiculous it's like a very bad Chuck Norris movie yes and we did talk about that last time it was right after the event but I'm curious what you think now because I don't think it really had the effect that it was designed to have a lot of false flags are done to drum up support for a certain thing

22:42 And it started to feel like that, but I don't know. It doesn't seem like it took off like they would have wanted it to. The rationale was just provide cover for genocide and really they just want to depopulate reduce the population of the Palestinians in every way possible and then not sense. It was a tremendous success there were some protests in the US but It didn't reach any kind of fever pitch. And in the meantime, the Israelis have been able to do a massive depopulation maneuver. I don't know what the actual casualty count and the count of those who've been driven out of the country...I don't know what that is. I don't trust their statistics. Well another interesting thing that's happening now and yes, I don't want to downplay all the death and tragedy that has happened but i guess it just doesn't seem like

23:36 people have gotten on board with it. But of course, if bombs are dropping what is the opinion of someone on the other side of the planet really matter? Well and also what is our data I mean I've talked to Palestinians who've talked about half of the population has been either removed from the area or killed I don't have any way of getting what do you think this claim that trump now this is gonna happen between recording and erring cuz trump just landed in saudi arabia today but there's a claim that he might recognize the palestinian state. That's getting a lot of people excited i think that there's a thing where you could say, Deals get made all the time where you just install a puppet government and it's like, who cares what you say on the surface if there is a hidden hand controlling it the way you want it controlled. So I could see that happening but he does like to troll liberals and that would just make their heads explode for the guy they hate so much to recognize the Palestinian state. Do you think that's a rumor? I mean hard to say but what's your assessment on how Trump might approach this situation? Nah, It won't happen

24:41 The rumor of the Palestinian state has been in existence since 1919, you know with the Balfour. I mean they're committed to Eretz Israel and it's been a long process 2,000 years. I mean read Caesar's Messiah see what they really were dealing with back in the first century but they will never permit a Palestinian state And for one thing, I mean these people are pure Deuteronic biblical individuals. They mean if you read Deuteronomy and you read the God's instruction to the Israelites in terms of genociding ethnicities to purify the land this is their perspective so no they'll never accept a Palestinian state they'll always talk about it but again it's just a cover story and it's not going to happen

25:39 What I've been telling people, if you're inside of Eretz Israel which is basically from the Euphrates to the Nile you should evacuate. If you're not inside the tribe of Israelis that are in power, you should evacuate Because there is no force really that is organized against the Israelis at this point, and they are absolutely murderous. I mean if you look at October 7th as a false flag, as a justification, right? Which I do incidentally, I think it's just self-evident.

26:17 a revelation of a kind of mindset that is absolutely murderous, racial and determined. And at the moment there's no real counterbalance in any political structure in the world against it so the only thing to do if you have a family and you're in Lebanon or serious leave I can show you letters from, well quotes of letters from Rothschild even before the Balfour Declaration where he was telling people not to put Arabs into Syria or Lebanon because eventually that was going to be part of the land of Israel. And I can cite Churchill is interaction with Hussein who is really the plenipotentiary of the Arab people

27:07 And he told him, he said look if you do not accept Zionism I will launch an attack against you using Saudi Arabia the armies of the Saudi Arabia. So you're talking immediately after the Balfour Declaration this is like 1920 at that point they had that kind of control Churchill had that kind of control over the armies of supposedly a Islamic Brotherhood state like Saudi Arabia, but he had enough control that he could actually state flat out that he would level Hussein and his army if he resisted the Zionism which was a cold cock. Remember...well this again you get into the details but

27:52 Hussein had negotiated all of this before World War I. He said, look we'll support the allies, we will fight against the Ottomans but you have to give us an Arab area political control and this was from Egypt through Saudi Arabia as soon as the objective had been achieved, the Balfour Declaration came out. The timing of the Balfour was basically, because that was when they didn't need any military support from the Arabs because they had defeated the Ottomans. And so they could now make their intentions clear and they came out with the Balfour Declaration which was a complete cold clock. It was a complete violation of the agreement that they had but it didn't matter. So this is the mindset that is...when you think about Trump

28:43 subterfuge, lying lifetime actors. I mean this is just their modus operandi is what they just do though. So I am sure Trump is going to play up the idea that they're going to make nice with the Muslims but It isn't going to happen. Right? It seems to be just the same old script, so let me ask you about more like the domestic issues and the economic stuff because it does seem like there's a big pivot going on and I've heard you talk about tariffs at great length and also say that it seems like the goal is 2D financialize the country but there's really no precedent for successfully doing that

29:27 Financialization is a gradual corruption where once it sets in politically, it's very difficult to reverse. Well elaborate on that what even is financialization really and what is this current administration doing to try to right the ship if that's even a good way to describe it? I mean, it's an oscillation And so the things that have been destructive are being addressed That is how Trump would present himself One could argue some of this stuff, but in general that would be a characterization. Trump is there to write things which are completely opposed to the interests of the general American public. Tariffs are an extremely good idea in theory because well, the situation has been unfair since the end of World War II wherein we accepted basically restrictions on our goods to other countries and did not

30:25 tariff in any meaningful way goods coming into our country. There's always been some niggling on the edges of this thing, but that's the general thrust of it is that they tariff our goods. We don't tariff theirs." So Trump is here and he's going to fix all of this and it is an extremely good idea but would have to be done with great precision. You know you have to do it to not wipe out such a fragile economy as we have with Trump's first tranche of tariffs if he had actually implemented them we would have brought the economy to a stop, right? Because so much of it is integrated at this point. I mean just as an example computer chips which come from Taiwan some come from China and a lot of the finished goods come from China, the computers and things. How are you going to bring an end to that trade into the United States

31:18 you would cause a depression. So Trump has walked back from most of his major claims in the last three weeks, like with China now he's walking back from the you know, draconian tariff position. And you can actually praise Trump and I would for this in that what he has done is as he's threatened a huge blow which would be devastating to the opponent in the tariff war and then was able to get concessions because he's a dealmaker. He went with the idea of 100%, but he's willing to take 30%.

31:57 I can't imagine that Trump will not end up with more popularity because of it, even though the tariffs in the short term might produce some issues. If he keeps up this approach you would have some renaissance in terms of American jobs if you think about getting rid of the civil service and I've had a lot...I had companies that have dealt with American civil service people, like the Department of Agriculture is an organization I had some dealing with. And I can tell you that this would be my opinion that most of the jobs are make work. They don't really do anything. They're not necessary. You couldn't as Trump was saying talk about getting rid of half a civil service if in fact they did meaningful and absolutely necessary things.

32:47 They are kind of make work, and you could easily get rid of them and save the taxpayer quite a bit of money. But who are these individuals? What is the preparation for their employment if you get rid of the civil service? What are you gonna do with them?" You can put him on welfare for awhile but then beyond that...I mean I don't think many of the people in civil service really have skills that could transfer into private enterprise. I don't think they could be entrepreneurs. I don't think they could start businesses, they don't have those kinds of skills and they don't have sort of skills that would give them sort of middle management positions in technical companies." You know? They just don't have that so what are you gonna to with them?" It's a formula in my opinion for disaster instance since many of them are African-American there is definitely going to get some pushback and I'm sad to say this because

33:43 For one thing, I think because I'm right but I also think it's just a sad situation is that I think the tensions between inner city and suburbs and white and black are gonna be intensified. And I think that's kind of the dialectic that Trump will most naturally and logically is in place to create and make it intense. Well, right now it seems like there's an immigrant citizen thing going on obviously that's a dialectic at play too Sure but that also is racial Now you know You can see how well to use an expression black-and-white this is all going to be because Trump is permitting the Boers to immigrate

34:24 There's 6 million Boers in South Africa. For people who don't know, the Boers are South African white people who are being persecuted or this is the story I don't know much about it but this is the headline I read and well they actually brought in like a hundred of them couple days ago It's a symbolic move, but there are 6 million of them. And if they immigrated the entire cohort you'd actually change the presidential race because these people would all I guarantee you be Republicans. I also think that we're going to eventually see a lot of the Ukrainian expats will be offered asylum in the United States or some kind of path to immigration because I think that they want

35:08 intensify the dialectic between white and black. It's too kind of early in this process to have a clearer understanding, but I think that's kind of the dialectic that they're going to use if you wanna take a paranoid approach...I mean, think of the inner cities in a complete state of riot and now political response or federal response has to occur. Imagine if George Floyd riots had been contested by the federal government you'd basically be in a civil war kind of situation. And I think then, you'd have to give up political power. You need...Trump would have to run for president for another term." I mean these kinds of things are suddenly believable and will be accepted if you get the dialectic intense enough. And see this is one of the good thing Greg about having

36:04 both clear and paranoid understanding of history is that you can see the future pretty well. I don't think Trump is going to take us to any place good. And if he's taking a someplace bad, this would be just the natural concern. Right? Right. When it comes to the economic stuff, I've heard you say that You really can't do this plan because the debt is too high. There's just no good answer for today. Some inflation data came out that inflation dropped 2.3% and April the lowest level since 2021 That might surprise people who are going just on the news headlines about what's happening economically. Now that's a silver lining, I suppose but what would you say to people who are listening? Who are like just concerned about the instability or the uncertainty in the general economy right now good luck to you. I would tell them they're right and it's a lot worse than they can even imagine

37:03 Here's the situation. Our economy is a dream world, I mean the thing that is most parallel to it would be an evangelical faith in Jesus. This is the degree of reality that the American citizens possess in terms of our economy. We cannot audit the Federal Reserve. We have no idea how much black money is in existence Who knows? And we know that money could come out of thin air. They can create any kind of credit they want, so the dollar only has a psychological value. It's only a religious device. That's all it is. It has value because we believe in it. Jesus is powerful because we believe in him. If you don't believe then there is no power if you don't believe in the dollar well the dollar is continuing to work and as long as it works then it does have power but it doesn't have any intrinsic power and

38:01 The problem is, is that we can't see in back of the shield and so we don't know how much fake money is out there. Katherine Austin Fitz who I think is clear-minded She said that her analysis of our debt market is that there has to be another planet, that we are unaware of. That is occupied by people that want to buy our debt. She used to think it was the secret space program? Yeah because The arithmetic doesn't make any sense in terms of who actually is buying the debt and why would they be buying it what happens to the old debt who's keeping track of all this so the thing

38:42 When you get into the current situation, as it's been explained to us where you've got $30 trillion in debt and they have to keep the interest rates reasonably low. Otherwise a federal government would have to create more debt than could be absorbed and you'd be in this kind of doom loop, you know, where more debt being created would require more death to pay for it. And then, you know, the next thing you know, the dollar would stop working." Well I would say that It is a faith system. It's a religion." The reason why in the Weimar Republic, the inflation basically ended...people would stop using, you know, the Deutschmark at that time is because they could physically see that the money was in great abundance. People had Deutschmarks and wheelbarrows to buy loaves of bread but they fixed that problem. Now dark money moves electronically

39:41 The people cannot see the dark money being moved around. And so we don't have a clue, economic people will talk about this or that inflation going up and down. This is all just... I mean it's pleasant conjecture but it doesn't have any connection to reality whatsoever because no one knows. The only thing we know is that the people who are running the economic Situation or malevolent yes so in that conversation you're having you said. Truly definitional eyes the country which is just a tall order almost impossible we would have to transition out of the currency and void it and then have a new one

40:20 And that sounds pretty intense some people think that's what's going on with crypto that they're trying to on ramp that if they can make the switch you know it's kinda like indiana jones trying to put the bag down take the idle its like can you make that switch when everything is moving away it is but that's pretty intense anything can be achieved propaganda is effective. This is just a faith-based system and if they switch to crypto, as long as movie stars came out saying that they were acquiring crypto, a vast number of the public would also want the crypto. And then if they want the crypto then their desire becomes the basis for transactions and the next thing you know, crypto is replaced with dollar I mean this is kind of a cartoon like description but that's kinda what has happened there look we could never have anything more absurd than the dollar it's almost impossible really what could you have to be more ridiculous

41:20 We believe in it. People work their whole lives to acquire it, and if it all just suddenly goes away overnight, well that was just too bad." But to actually have a real financial system you'd have to get control over the political class. You would have absolute control over...you would have to have complete audit. You'd have to be able to audit every single penny and have this public My father did accounting and I asked him, he said, well how does this all work? And he said here's the great principle. If you don't know where the money is it has been stolen. This is the great principle." So in United States we don't know where any of the money is so we know that the wealth has been stolen certainly someone is stealing and they have this very clever thing where now that they have the index

42:12 you have the dollar relative to other currencies that are the exact same illusionary nature, like the yen and the euro and, you know, the yuan. So since all of the currencies are ludicrous and they're all basically have debt attached to them that the economies that they're attached to cannot repay none of them have any sort of reality but as a clump, they are more powerful force of illusion because the dollar is strengthening against the yen. I mean, that's just a very mentally powerful thing and makes the dollar seem like it's real because look it's better today than it was two weeks ago against the yen well this is wonderful but what does the yen? How does the yen link in none of these things can be audited or to the extent they can they're just ridiculous there is no relationship any longer between the currency and the economy

43:09 There's just no longer, I mean really Austin Fitz is correct. There is another planet out there and it's that's the only way you can make any sense out of the numbers so what to do? Well you know I mean precious metals probably a good idea certainly has been recently but there's no guarantee they could easily pull the plug on that these are tiny markets easy to manipulate crypto I mean, I'm wealthy and I have investments in all of these things. I have dollars and crypto metal and things." And by diversification you know, you have this idea well, I'm protected but this is ridiculous. None of these sources of wealth have any real...you know what I mean? Food and the ability to protect yourself is actual wealth. You know the thing is look

43:58 we are constantly given an illusion in terms of the nature of reality. You know, every major event is a theatrical production. I mean read Caesar's Messiah if you want to see how cynical I am. Read Shakespeare—my book on Shakespeare! Everything that we have been told about our history, about our literature It's all nonsense. These are elements in social control, the old dark class has developed techniques to control you and me." And that's what we see as history. That's what we see is economic reality. We see their control methods. So

44:37 we need a revolution and thank heavens there are people like you who have the really righteous and historically important role of getting out the skepticism to the public, right? I mean this is the most critical thing. The stuff you do... Like I was listening to some of your shows the other day because I didn't know what's gonna come on. Someone should be like supporting you in the life with a lot of money because, because you're really doing good stuff and bringing out the alternative thinkers and questions that you pose to them. You're helping to generate skepticism now I've said this 100 times look

45:20 Propaganda is what rules our world. However, it is very vulnerable because if a citizen is skeptical just to the extent of he's gonna not believe what the media is telling him... He just can be skeptical. Propaganda doesn't work. It just flat out doesn't work and then look at how many people started as like normally half conscious but go through some kind of process where they end up and you make sense to them Your conversations, they understand it. Now look at this. How many of that group ever go back to believing the October 7th Hamas invasion is a real thing? No one! I have never met a single person that returns to go, you know, I was wrong. I now understand 9-1-1 as...that's what happened."

46:10 Excellent point. Yeah, it really only goes one direction in that regard as hard as it is to break through when you do breakthrough. It's usually for life. You're done so we only need really if you want to look at the numbers, we only need like around my estimates about 10% of the public that has really kind of clear minded The political process they create and run isn't going to work If there's just ten percent That's all we need. We're up to like maybe four or five already, and if it goes forward...because again it's only one-way traffic, it never goes back so given this I think they could actually calculate 20 years 15 years it's over for them because the political system they run won't function if there is 10% that can actually have an adult conversation with you

47:01 It's over. I mean, i'm not exaggerating they cannot function if there is 10% of the public that just goes in and I don't believe it. That was the great thing about COVID is you could just see when everything is kind of a mono think injection into the culture. You're like, well hold on a second I've seen this game before. I don't know much about medicine or what this could be but i know that you're lying to me so then you start sifting through the alternative takes and say that sounds good This guy seems to have a good piece of it here's an expert who doesn't agree with everything oh and then A picture starts to form And by the time you get to the shot Well I think you should have done your research By then But we were talking before this started

47:44 Maybe those people who didn't get the shot could actually end up being an organized voting block at least or more. And the fact is there has been a lasting impact from the stupidity of the vaccine and the mandates, which I think were ham-handed. And I suspect were actually done in a kind of desperation relative to what we had just discussed that they really could see that they just couldn't continue with independent media rolling along because they could see in like couple decades there would be too many people who would

48:21 So, they experimented with mechanical dictatorship where they lock everyone down. But it really didn't work. The skepticism was too high now they got a lot of people to take the vaccine But I don't think a lot of people would have supported the lockdowns for much longer. I think they would have had a large-scale kind of rebellion, which is one of the things that they've tried to avoid. So anyway we now oscillate to Trump and suddenly he's saying that... He's skeptical of the vaccine. We have RFK Jr., what the heck?

49:01 This is just a complete oscillation. You have Fauci and now you have RFK Jr., who wrote the book about Fauci being one of the most heinous criminals in the history of mankind." Well, wait a second... I know it's truly insane to see him in a position of power. I read that book and interviewed him about that book, and I was just shocked what's in it! And he's an interesting character because I've followed him for many years when he was unpopular fighting an uphill battle, and now he's saying things like the MMR vaccine as the best defense for children i don't know if he's just being strategic and fighting one battle at a time but people are so quick to say he is compromised and it all over,

49:41 It was just announced that all childhood vaccines will finally have placebo-controlled trials. My hope is that he's kind of trying to do things methodically, setting up the proper trials and studies and then letting the data speak for itself rather than acting the way people expect him to act in the way he has been painted as just strictly anti-vax. I like to think that he's like, oh, I'm not anti-vax. I just want to go with the data. Let's get the good data." And then we'll see how that all rolls out, I suppose. Adamus Yeah well your statement is very significant and very clear-minded. He can't simply make proclamations that would be the opposite of the ones like Peter Hotez and Fauci were making it so this would be, I think disorienting but what he can do is let the data speak for itself and he actually referenced

50:35 what I think is the most significant piece of statistical analysis. I'm not sure we ever discussed it, but it's a study that was done on the Harvard Pilgrim medical system and it was done by statisticians working for the US government and if you Google Harvard Pilgrim Study, you know, you'll see it. And what they determined was...what they were really trying to do was to see if the VAERS system was catching these side effects this is too complicated to go into for your viewers, but they wanted to see if the government was actually picking up the side effects because when they gave the pharmaceutical companies a dispensation from lawsuits, this was like trade-off. They had to have an accurate way of monitoring side effects. Well anyway... So these guys go in and they just took a medical system of like 800,000 people and went back in time and took all the data so it's kind

51:33 I wouldn't call it a true double blind, but it was a blind study. They just said okay well let's look what the data tells us and they said you know what? It's only picking up one in 100 of the side effects. What and 100! Well that's no good So they went to the CDC with the information, and the CDC—this is in the study incidentally. You can just go online and read it—the CDC their response was well we're never going to pick up the telephone again when you guys call them that was a response they just said we are shutting it down They realized that any kind of discussion would foul the water all the more. So they wanted to just stop the study, but the study exists." But RFK has referenced the study. I know people who know him and I know that that study has been presented to him. He talks about the study and what I think is going to happen. This would be the best case. But I think he's gonna take all the medical data in the United States and do basically a Harvard Pilgrim Study. He's just gonna say, okay we've got

52:35 hundreds of millions of hospital records, and we can now using AI and computer technology, we can correlate everything. We can see that medicine X is given to this cohort, and then we can trace them through time and compare them to some group that didn't get medicine X. And now we can see did it work? Was it effective? What are the increases in side effects? The data will provide all of the reality. The data not, because we have the capacity with all of the hospital records. I mean, we got hospital records going back into the 1940s for God's sakes. We don't have to wonder...I mean it's just ludicrous that people would say, well, we don't really know what causes autism." Well how can we not know? We have data. We can actually run the data and see who takes different medicines and who has these results or who doesn't

53:23 I think, as you said and I wish that...I'm gonna review this when you post it and try to quote you because that was a really good way of describing is that's really what he should do is he should just let the data speak for itself. When he comes forward, he should just not even have his personality, just goes here, this is the report to the nation, here is the date This is what happens when your kid gets the MNR vaccine, and this is what happens when your kid gets 70 vaccines. There are some other kids that don't have this so we can see what the different results are and just let the data tell the public what is real and what isn't. This is critical because we're becoming so stupid and sick

54:12 you know, as a people. And our sperm count is going to zero. We have less than 40% of the sperm that we had in males in the United States in the 1950s. We have 40%. This is insane! Nothing is being done about it and the 40 percent that are in existence, the sperm obviously are damaged. You know here where I live they say that one kid in 10 has autism 1 in 10 boys. Well, I can point over my shoulder to where autistic children are living right now. They're 200 yards from me." There was no such thing in the 1950s when I was growing up so this really gets me upset that the public has been slowly like a frog being boiled we just got used to being ill and used to having so much diabetes and obesity and we don't understand

55:05 that this is an attack upon us by the oligarchs, that they are creating the epsilon and delta class with us right now. We are being transformed into a more stupid weaker less ambitious group of people for their purposes. So you know when you look at tariffs in economic oscillation it all links into the creation an impotent populace where we just don't have the capacity to rebel. Right, and one of the things that really bothers me about the autism thing is just it's a debilitating condition yet its promoted as feature not a bug And now I see people that I've known my whole life saying well I talked with therapist and we found out that I'm neurodivergent and there's this celebration

56:05 Neurodivergent which is really a term to say damaged or insufficient in some way. And it's because so many people are gonna experience this so many people can have kids that experiences because vaccines are kinda mandatory it's so, ubiquitous now in culture that you have to kind of market it as a positive. And I think that's one of the craziest things. You have to market it as a positive because the marketing is part of the overall plan of creating the Epsilon and Delta class, you give them the idea that there are something positive about this or that the criticism of it is insensitive right? This is literally insane

56:49 They have a movie, The Accountant where the hero is autistic and it gives him an advantage in his certain kinds of work. I mean this is completely insane literally, it's insane! It's not real the autistic don't have mathematical genius as one of their attributes, their brains are damaged and the spectrum they show As the neurodivergent, you know, Ben Affleck with a girlfriend is the edge of the spectrum. Well what they should show is the bottom 50% wherein you have like children who when they reach puberty are dangerous to their mothers,

57:31 I mean, this is the reality of it is that they are profoundly retarded and they are not safe to be around. And that half of the spectrum is dangerous. Yes, you can train a certain fraction of them to be marginal humans but they're all damaged and we should never accept any damage. We should not accept an iota of damage to the children You know, the idea that well we're just going to make them neurodiverse by definition and then go to sensitivity and be a happy world. I mean...I just get absolutely furious about this! And you know what? This is in my draconian moments, you know it's like

58:18 You look at the people who...and I have argued with them, and I've spent 20 years trying to get people to think better about these subjects and myself. But in some cases there's success, and in other cases there is not. When there's not success when you have people that took six mRNA vaccines and now have prostate cancer or something what can you do other than say farewell? you were talking about the unvaccinated, we have the basis of skepticism for a healthier culture. We really should try to segregate ourselves from those individuals." This is something I've been advocating for some time. There's not enough of us who are not dense enough to really do it properly yet but this would be the basis for a political party but also for social life. I mean,

59:13 Dance parties for people who are, you know. I have a meetup calendar that I maintain for the show that anybody who's a listener can make an event and find local people based on mutual love of strange topics that we talk about here. Brilliant! That is such a good idea you know? to start connecting ourselves one another. Is there any promotional stuff you wanna throw out before we go? You know, I mean the same old stuff Caesar's Messiah, Shakespeare's Secret Messiah...you can buy the books if you're interested. I have a lot of stuff that's online. If you Google my name, you can see I have analysis of a lot of things in the modern world like I Am The Walrus, The Salinger Books and

59:58 Even like Shakespearean analysis, like the Tempest which is incredibly important. That play is where the expression brave new world comes from. If you just Google my name in The Tempest you can see my take on it and I really do have critical insights into the play that haven't been seen before which will enable people to understand why the expression became so popular with the oligarchs. I would say in terms of promoting me, I would promote your stuff actually. This is where if you want to help me try to help Greg and I'm a public person, you can reach me on email at joeatwell at gmail dot com. I do what I can to get back to most of them. Heck yeah! Well, I appreciate it thank you lots of stuff to think about take care brother thank you so much

1:00:45 Well, well, well I had Joe here to talk tariffs and we clearly went into a lot of other stuff. He's a knowledgeable guy with lots of thoughts and ideas on all sorts of things he offers perspectives that I definitely don't hear every day and backs them up with a lot of historical detail and unique takes is kind of part of the THC recipe And the fact that he's very complimentary to me doesn't hurt either Hard to know what to say here though. I don't think I got a kid glove you guys too much, I think anyone who's gone deep into the depths of the conspiratorial internet has crossed paths with uncomfortable perspectives like some of this was and like on a lot of things as a host i try to stay pretty neutral. I'm just listening...as you are listening a lot of times. I'm also wearing The Host and Producer hat at the same time through these interviews

1:01:42 Even I'm sometimes shocked at the things I heard Joe say. But there's something about his tone and demeanor that I find really interesting to listen to this, if you don't like my position then let's pull it apart and really look at it from all angles and not be afraid to discuss it sort of attitude And the first hour was pretty tame. Obviously, the plus show less so but nothing makes me appear to be a stumbling awkward tongue-tied idiot like an impromptu and unexpected conversation about racial differences genetics and cultural degradation of racial groups But I tried to put on my big boy pants? Maybe it's just entertaining to watch me squirm...I don't know

1:02:28 I'm willing to risk putting my foot in my mouth, I guess, to talk about these things. I just hope everyone understands that it's only in the spirit of curiosity exploring certain ideas for truth maybe they have all of it half of it not so much of it but just wanting to explore all ideas and ultimately problem solving and generating some sort of hope or motivation for improvement We gotta get raw about the problems to get honest about the solutions. And it's not about judgment or being dismissive of any type of person as inferior, or lost cause... Again this was Plush Show stuff but I feel like i still need to throw that out there

1:03:14 At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth again, I think the cognitive and emotional difference between men and women is bigger than the difference between white men and black men. I don't know what Joe would say about that yet we have marriages and families and share the same households so we can obviously be very different and think differently and have different logical processes and still make a strong team And when Joe talks about segregation, man it's thorny. I see it as an unnecessary thing to advocate for but if I was going to back up his position...I have black friends that have been raised basically white who say it really sucks going into every single social situation or even restaurant as the only black guy around or one of a couple peppered throughout

1:04:09 So yeah, it's not a big deal to say people like to be around their tribe. They want to be around people that are like them American isn't a thick enough bond apparently and I don't really see a problem with it being framed that way We put so much emphasis on race I think just because it's so easy to see but if the goal is to be around people that are like you Why not choose on a basis of astrology or personality type or generation? We know there's differences amongst the different generations. Most differences in groups used to be tied to geography, of course and by extension culture but not so much anymore So it's just a thought you could live and be amongst all different types of people

1:05:01 and make distinctions between differences on all kinds of different basis. Besides race, whatever I don't like going off and qualifying so much when a guest is gone specifically when it's a plus show topic anyway in free listeners are wondering why I'm so fired up on racial topics when they didn't even hear that subject matter at all but it is what it is become a plus member and here all the juicy thorny stuff I don't usually think of PLUS as a filtering mechanism, but like the legends go sometimes i lay the breadcrumbs in the first hour and then it's up to you to really invite me in and see where it goes. This might be one of those episodes we should also always be open to discussing anything from the perspective of was something sold as a positive by people who meant to do harm

1:05:54 Anything should be explorable through the lens of where we lied to about this. Did X, Y or Z happen naturally? Or was it engineered? It's a confusing world those conversations are needed but again I don't want anyone to take it like a personal attack do what you want to do as an individual I don't judge if I think you're being genuine but so many people are not being authentic there is so much parroting and mimicry Whether it's the rappers or influencers or celebrities, there is just so much mimicry that it's kind of sad. I did use a personal example in the Plus show because I was kinda scrambling to explain myself and wish I hadn't! I usually like to keep personal stuff off the show but Joe is explaining some things that I do see coming up in regular life sometimes I can't help but go to an example

1:06:51 But like I was trying to say, when I see deeply personal things becoming somewhat trendy. I just wonder how genuine or authentic it is even if it's really not my business but the Jesuit history in the first hour was interesting didn't think we'd go that deep on that but I brought it up and he knows a lot about it The economic insights were great. Tariff talk in the mainstream sounds a lot like COVID talk to me, there's only one way to think! It's a disaster it's a self-inflicted wound and an unforced error yet as Joe pointed out there's been an imbalance since World War II what's wrong with resetting that table?

1:07:33 The younger generations kind of just hate America and don't think we deserve anything or any fairness. And maybe out of guilt, they're like yeah just take everything doesn't have to be fair I don't know really what that's all about sure a lot of other countries are bitching and even framing it as an attack because they don't want to lose the advantage Because for the most part we are just largely talking about a reciprocal situation Why can't I buy a Toyota cheaply yet they don't sell Fords in Japan or Germany or whatever? We know about these examples but American manufacturing is already so limited and then you add on not even having access to global markets. Of course we're in trouble, and these are markets that have gotten more valuable over the decades too!

1:08:23 And if we're going to even give lip service to reigniting manufacturing here, then you also gotta open up new places to sell. I don't even think that's really what's going on but just a play devils advocate for the general idea ya know? So i really liked this interview without being so sure how I think about every point it's fun when a guest takes things further than me And I'm left not even knowing what to say and Joe does that often. I appreciate his boldness, few will go as hard as he will." You know the deal, but let's do what we do and check the rating of last episode. This is the one with Aaron Murakami about the happenings in the free energy alternative science ether physics realm. Personally I think a small fraction will love it and for a lot people it will have been too technical. I'm worried it might even be below 4

1:09:32 Though I like that Aaron can dispense his knowledge and be that technical, showing he knows what he's talking about. But I just don't think it's everyone's cup of tea so let me guess 4.2 And looking at it we got a 4.3 Okay right around what I expected. I could feel it at times but its hard to interrupt a person mid explanation Still I like going there every so often It feels important to do We will see what Plus Members think of this one with Joe. Pretty hard to predict actually, but let's do the other thing... The Meetup Calendar! On June 1st we got hot dogs and hope at Heartland Harbor in Huntington Indiana Also tacos and truth at Elm Creek Brewing in Champlin Minnesota June 8th Truth or Discussion in LA at the Trails Cafe And June 14th a raw milk party in Lanesboro Massachusetts

1:10:31 There's a handful of events to get you through the first half of June. And remember, anyone can make an event very low pressure just pick a place you like and tell the people and see how it goes building networks the old-fashioned way while we can that's pretty much it before we go I guess I would say I got a new song for this one Now that we're back on YouTube, I can't really use the covers because on top of all the content strikes. I would also get copyright strikes because these covers would be stupidly interpreted as the original song very annoying but these are original songs and they'll always be safe so i'm going back to writing them but i'm gonna be a little less specific i'm gonna write ones that i can

1:11:17 reuse rather than them all being one-to-one show specific. That's just too hard to keep up with but this one is just a series of goofy thoughts I had, but if there was a sense to it... ...I would say the major theme is that there's always an exception to the rule or some caveat or one more thing But that doesn't mean The basic premise or logic isn't sound when it comes to this, that or the other. If the burden of proof is going to be higher than what can be publicly available well that's very convenient for the conspirators you know? That's the point I guess but either way check in with Joe if you like what you heard i've done my part your move economic upheavers crypto masonic deceivers and directors of the reality theater your fucking move once i found a smoking gun

1:12:13 But nobody else saw it Once someone returned my money, but it's stolen my wallet twice I was bitten but I didn't get shy. I've been drinking from a cup That's always you can still make out spiders not see tribute to malice what goes deeper than greed

1:13:01 I broke a mirror right before The best seven years of my life Something's over your head. How can it be too deep? I don't like to cause confusion if you know what, I mean, I've seen the sun shine bright darkest of day a rich man once told me that's when the best deals are made You can still make out the web When the spider is not seen you can connect

1:14:30 The dots just draw some lines in between When you can smell the... The dots just draw... The higher side chats Versus the machine