Dr. Joseph P. Farrell | The Cosmic War & The Treaty of Versailles Template

00:05 Man, it's up and masters almost surely have a plan There's clearly maybe something there beyond the realm of man And until you've thoroughly tested every last close-tested view I'd find the more you think you know The less you really do That's true Dr. Seuss Very well Where would we be without TAT? Cause we know they're lying to us Just don't know what to breathe Where would we be without DT? The highest-tied jack show, Greg Carwood Company

00:44 Well people, today is the treat of treats because one of my favorite scholars and authors is back. His name is Joseph Farrell a PhD from Oxford University and an excellent author who tackles topics of alternative history secret sciences financial alchemy and more Last time we focused mainly on the mindset behind debt-based currency its origins Its perpetrators it's connection to a quarantined physics The topological metaphor or the medium And other related parts of the larger story highlighted in Joseph's books Babylon's Banksters and The Financial Vipers of Venice But there are other threads on the conspiracy cardigan, other bricks in the hidden history house. And today we're going to dive into Joseph's research into an ancient exotic technology filled cosmic war and look at what we know about the two global wars in this round of recorded history and see if there aren't some patterns and catalysts for all kinds of interesting things to

01:30 pull out along the way. Another guest from the stacked roster at this year's Secret Space Program conference in Austin at the end of the month, back in the saddle for a second ride on the THC roller coaster Joseph my man thanks for making the return! Thanks for having me back on Greg Yeah it's a pleasure very happy to be doing this man I have a lot of respect for the work you've done I'm glad we can talk about the other pieces of the puzzle we couldn't get to before and this cosmic war idea is a big part of it probably not a new idea to most rabbit hole tumblers, but it is described differently by different researchers. So maybe you can paint us a little bit of a mental picture on how you view this ancient catastrophic war? Well, to me it's the keystone and the arch of all my books I think that we've been dealing with basically the same thing over and over and over but briefly the cosmic war idea comes from an examination two very different distinct data sets one are ancient texts

02:25 which for me, with my background in theology I do a lot of textual analysis. And when you read these texts my favorite being the Enuma Elish which in academics is a dualistic cosmological origins mythos, you know or some sort of academic claptrap similar there too. But when you sit down and read it is actually a war epic It's describing wars, describing basically a civil war in the pantheon of Mesopotamian gods now that the clincher is that when you examine the names

03:05 the Mesopotamian gods, they're all names of celestial bodies. So the implication is that this is an interplanetary war of some sort! The other data set is coming from Dr Tom Van Flandern, the old astronomer at the US Naval Observatory, the late doctor Van Flandern who revived a very early 19th century notion in astronomy that what they were looking at with the asteroid belt was the remains of a planet that had exploded. And he comes up with a variety of naturalistic explanations as to why a planet would explode, and you can tell he's not too happy with any of them I review all these in my book The Cosmic War and finally very briefly at one point in the book

03:55 says that well it might have also blown up due to some technological experiment gone wrong and then he clinches it by adding a phrase or as the result of deliberate action. In other words, a war! And you know once you say that then your positing the existence of very high advanced technological civilization in high antiquity, right here in the solar system that was somehow interplanetary in nature and that it had a science and technology capable of doing such a thing. Well this squares very nicely as matter-of-fact with the Mesopotamian text and particularly with the Enuma Elish

04:44 because in one of those texts, the tablets of one of those texts I think it's the fourth tablet at the end of this war when Marduk has finally conquered you know the revolting half of the Pantheon there is this curious little phrase that to me indicates that they are dealing with something that's a dim distant memory and the phrases and Marduk measured the structure of the deep And to me this is a signal that with an exploded planet, the celestial mechanics of the solar system is going to be askew. It's gonna be off! So the first thing you have to do is get a handle on the celestial mechanics of now disrupted solar system with its exploded planet and this exactly what you see in this particular text. I'm dealing with two basic different data sets

05:39 And for me, the clincher Greg has always been that if you're dealing at the end of World War II with a sudden appearance of UFOs and so on. A certain segment I think of the national security policy making structure is going to perhaps be aware of this particular reading of these types of texts and it's going to formulate and plan its policy accordingly. So for me this isn't simply a kind of academic exercise without implication, you know for the world that we're living in I think the possibility does exist and that we have to entertain the possibility that these types of reasonings or thoughts formulated some other policy formation culture and that's crucial

06:33 Yeah, it's an interesting take and I know that you're piecing the story together from just the remnants of the text we have to describe it but do you get any kind a sense of the two sides involved or what sort of time period were talking about? Well the time period as I outlined in The Cosmic War I left kind of deliberately open. And the reason why I did that is I think when it comes to reconstructing a chronology There's so many different and at present seemingly conflicting data sets as to when this might have occurred. For example, you have indications that something cataclysmic occurred as recently about 12000-10000 BC other cosmological markers or benchmarks if you will

07:23 would be the alignments that some people did. Dr Mark Collado, several years ago when he was working with Richard Hoagland on dating the face on Mars came up with a set of astronomical alignments that pointed to about 625 thousand years ago you have indicators in ancient texts, the Kali Yuga and so forth You have geological indicators that Dr. Van Flandern came up with the K-T boundary line at about 65 million years ago and then his astronomical data crunching that planet may have blown up as late or recently as 3.2 million years ago, so you've got a lot of different chronological benchmarks and I kind of left this deliberately open because I don't think we can

08:12 pinpoint with any degree of high accuracy yet or do the synthesis work needed on all these data points to try and come up with a cohesive, coherent historical chronological line. Now that said my guess Greg is that we would have to look very seriously at a date somewhere between Van Flandern's late date of 3.2 million years And then the dates of Dr. Carlotto and some others that have been exploring the Mars anomalies, a couple hundred thousand to about a quarter million years ago somewhere in that time frame I think

08:56 Man, I mean considering we're talking about something that could be so old. I'm surprised we know anything about it at all It's almost harder for me to believe that We have records of it than it is to believe it happened when we're talking about A length of time that could be 100 thousand to 1 million years Yeah the records themselves are another intriguing part of this story How do you translate or how do you transmit something like this over time without significant loss of signal I think the key here is most people have it entirely wrong about ancient myths and stories and how they're handed down. There've been studies of oral traditions of Australian aborigines, and they've discovered that contrary to the assumptions that we usually have

09:43 these things would become hopelessly garbled over time, the reverse is true. These oral tradition transmitting cultures tend to pay a great deal of attention to the accurate transmission of their records so I don't find that all that unusual but what I find unusual rather is that we have a corpus of mythology in the world that if you read it from, so-to-speak scientific or quasi-scientific eyes begins to unveil the possibility that you're looking at records that are garbled, to some extent. But they are trying to express an actual history in the best technical language that they know how and that's oftentimes the language of religion in those days but I think you can look behind that and see indicators of some of these things

10:34 Yeah, another thing that I guess critics would say is that you can't take these ancient texts literally. Maybe they're just describing stories and why would you disagree with that? Well, I disagree with it because it's too convenient in a sense. It allows us to not look at the possibility that we are looking at some sort of historical description. When you take these texts and juxtapose them with the physical evidences that were now finding as we go out and venture into the solar system, with our robotic probes and so on, we're finding an amazing degree of correlation. So I think

11:13 for simply the sake of completeness or argument. You may not agree with that reading of text, but at least from the standpoint of kind of intellectual honesty you at least have to look at those types of readings. Yeah I mean I agree and when you get into the details do you get much a sense of the two sides involved? Are there politics for lack of better word are their motivations Oh yes, there are high politics involved. Again it's a matter of if you put on kind of the conspirators thinking cap and learn to read between the lines of ancient texts just like we do today as were watching the news, as were exploring articles on the internet most of us in this alternative community

12:05 cynical enough that we've learned to read between the lines of the propaganda. So what I'm suggesting is be that cynical when you read these ancient texts as well and start to look behind the lines and connect some dots. Well, if you look at again if you look at things like the Enema Elish in some of these other texts but the Enema Elish probably is the one most people are familiar with because it's easiest to get a hold of When you look at this What you see being described in these Mesopotamian texts is first of all, you have a war in the Pantheon. You've got one part of the family at war with another part of the family and then when you look deeper what are they fighting over? Well they're fighting over essentially two things They're fighting first of all over the role of mankind in this interplanetary confederation or whatever you wish to call it

13:02 they're fighting over the role of mankind. And one group thinks there's far too many humans on planet Earth, they are far too noisy and they are far to intelligent for our own good as we the elite or we the gods would prefer to keep this power for ourselves so you can find statements... I'm paraphrasing very badly but statements like that in these ancient texts. The other thing, which for me is even more interesting that they're fighting over particularly in Mesopotamia, is they're fighting over weapons themselves. They are fighting over the possession

13:40 of a, quite literally, planet-busting technology and possibly the beneficial aspects of such a technology and who gets to wield it. So in other words they're fighting over possession so to speak of the ultimate scientific technological secret And this to me is what's most interesting because again, if this be the case then human nature hasn't really changed that much. We've seen in modern times very similar struggles where right now talking about nuclear proliferation and Iran and so on and so forth

14:19 that we don't want certain people to get certain kinds of weapons, that we want to monopolize for ourselves. So you know nothing really changes all that much and when you read some of these ancient texts it looks very much like your dealing with a very similar set of circumstances and then there's the third implication thats kind of not mentioned directly But when you stop and think about it, it's being implied. That is number one if you're dealing with excess too smart population of these little monkeys on this little blue planet in the solar system, number one and if you're dealing with a fight over possession of the ultimate technology then there are hidden economic and commercial implications at play

15:06 this squares very well with what we've seen in modern history since the Renaissance. We've seen this meme repeated over and over, so again it looks to me when you deal with these ancient texts from the standpoint of more or less the permanence of human nature, of human emotions and passions and politics and institutions. And the types of things that we struggle over then that to me says that we need to take these texts very seriously when they're talking about ancient wars with gods. Yeah you said it really well I mean a war between elite families where depopulation plays a role it does seem like not much has changed Exactly

15:52 A lot of researchers of these texts like to focus on the technology or the destructive power that's described in this battle and that is very interesting, but let's look a little bit at the aftermath. And maybe there are some parallels we can draw between what's described in these writings and what we saw in the wake of say World War I? Well, I've been suggesting this Versailles template In any number of interviews and have alluded to it very briefly in some of my interviews on radio. And I was asked to talk about this at this upcoming Secret Space Conference, could you talk about this Versailles template in more detail? Can you talk about its implications for post-war economy? And briefly put if you look at... let me put it to you this way the reason why I think the Versailles template is extremely important

16:46 for the American policy formation culture of this national security state that we put into place in 1947. If you look at the policy formation culture of the men involved in setting it up, you have people like Alan Dulles, John Foster Dulles, John J McCloy and George Kennan and people like this well In almost every single instance of the people that I just named, the Dulles brothers were of course part of the American delegation at guess where? At Versailles in 1918 and 1919. So in other words their geopolitical commercial national security outlook is formed in the crucible of the aftermath of World War One and to me this is very crucial to the way they might have approached

17:39 reading some of these ancient texts if they were inclined ever to look at them. And I think probably they were. The other thing that is very directly related to these ancient texts and our experience in World War One, is as you just mentioned, we had a bunch of elite families talking about overpopulation there was a big struggle for possession or limitation of use of ultimate weapons This you find very definitely in the Treaty of Versailles. And I'll be talking in more detail at the upcoming conference, but basically it boils down to the fact that the Entente powers basically if you look at World War One carefully, basically laid siege to the central powers. The difficulty was with Germany in particular, you had a combatant

18:35 that relied very heavily on massive, and I can't even begin to exaggerate that term, on massive amounts of firepower. To give you an example of what I mean here Greg, how it plays a role in Versailles and then in this wider template idea during the last German offensives of 1918 when you had General Ludendorff transferring massive amounts of troops from the Eastern Front that had just collapsed with the Russian surrender. Well, he's transferring massive amounts of troops but he is also transferring massive amounts of artillery and the way that Germans have learned to use artillery on the Eastern Front was very different than the way combatants used it in the West

19:24 We hear stories of these week-long preparations, if not longer. Just massive amounts of random artillery fire flinging as much ordnance at the enemy as they could. The Germans didn't do this on the Eastern Front. They relied on truly horrendous amounts of artillery fire within a few hours. So when Ludendorff began his offensive in 1918, in March of 1918 The Germans had massed so much artillery fire that within about five hours, they had dropped more ordnance on the British lines than were dropped on Nazi Germany.

20:09 by the Allies in World War II. This is a truly... You can just imagine, you know what the British soldiers suffered it was truly a devil's whirlwind of ordinance and fire and it was so loud that you could hear the rumble 60 miles away in Paris or 80 miles away in London That's how loud it was It was just god-awful So when the Allied powers meet at Versailles, and this is a crucial part of the story. They had had obviously enough experience with the ultimate weapon of the day and that was just gobs and gobs of artillery and some of it quite large so they prohibited the German army at Versailles from possessing artillery

21:00 in numbers and calibers beyond a certain limit. The caliber I think was 15 centimeters, and the number of guns from you know was down from 20 thousand plus that the Kaiser's army had fielded 1918 to about four or five hundred something like that. I forget the exact number so in other words there is a limitation on armaments. There was a prohibition on armaments now the interesting thing that the Germans did of course, they were to turn over to the allied powers some of these weapons you know the big Bertha siege guns that they used to blow their way into Belgium past the fortresses, the Paris gun

21:44 they used to shell Paris from 70 miles away. They were supposed to turn this over, well the Germans didn't. They destroyed many of the big berths as they turned some of them over but they completely dismantled the Paris gun. The Allies searched and searched for this thing, we were never able to find it, papers concerning it because the Germans had classified it at an extremely high level. So what you have is a pattern of arms limitation and then arms hiding, And again if you go back to the ancient texts there are very clear parallels to what goes on for example in the Epic of Nunerta

22:24 which is again a Mesopotamian epic, but I included the entire text in The Cosmic War because you have to sit down and read this thing. And I defy anybody to say that they're reading an epic. What they're reading reads more like the index to a Sears catalog because it's about that exciting, you know? It's just dreadfully boring! But what you're reading is really an inventory of the victors in that cosmic war going through all of the stuff that they've recovered from The Vanquished. And, you read that they cart some of it off to be used in other uses. You read that they destroy some of it because it has no other application other than as a weapon and then you read about very small class of things that they couldn't destroy, so they hide it

23:18 So again, the template is very reminiscent of what we see now in modern times. So you've got all these things at play and this is kind of what I mean by the Versailles Template because I think the experience of World War 1, the carnage was a shorter war than World War 2 It was the first use in modern times of modern weapons, modern combat industrial potential as war making potential. So the national security establishment that is set up in 1947 is coming out of this whole experience and when they turn with that experience to look at the UFO I think this whole experience

24:04 had to have had some effect on the way that they approached the problem and how they were going to handle it. And lo and behold, surprise surprise you know, I say that tongue in cheek, they approached the UFO problem much the same way as the Germans approached how they were going to live with Versailles and eventually overturn it And that was they quite literally created a vast underground covert secret system of weapons research, of financing these things and developing all the modern weapons that you know they would inflict on us in World War II. So this whole thing I think – We are creatures of our history

24:51 That's as true of the national security establishment and the men setting it up as it is for you and me. I think this is why this story is important. process of decommissioning weapons, of course is going to be a part of the post-war process. Exactly! And I know you have written at length about the Great Pyramid being some kind of weapon...I mean your website is GezaDeathStar and we see pyramids all over and on Mars as well and so many people want these things to be part of a global energy grid or stargates to traverse the cosmos but when we look at humans today on a large scale we pretty much build weapons and that's it

25:30 So, I mean the case can be made and I wonder if the missing capstones or something aren't part of this decommissioning. Well, I've wondered that too and you mentioned decommissioning and that's yet another part of this template because again you look back at ancient texts And this is what you see, you see kind of the ancient cosmic version of the Versailles template in action even there because again let's use World War I as our example. Not only do you have a vast family fight with the Hohenzollerns and the Habsburgs, and the Romanovs in the Windsors or Sachsa-Koburg und Goethe to give them their real German name. Not only do you have a vast family fight – you know, the Kaiser's related just about every other monarch in Europe at that time including the British Monarch

26:23 So in other words, it's a vast family fight. And this is what we see in the ancient text but the other thing you know the allies imposing these restrictions on German armaments well they're not going to just sit back and let the Germans police themselves through so In any case that would have been a bad idea and even with the allied commissioners you know military attaches their antenna pulsing with suspicion crawling all over Germany and its factories to make sure that the Germans aren't going to be making any more of this stuff by golly. Yeah, they have to set up a system of decommissioning and making sure that parties to the treaty are going to abide by it

27:06 And this is what you see in the ancient texts. Look at the watchers, well what are they watching and why? Yes! You know... That was one of my questions for you if you thought that UFO phenomenon especially the increase during World War II might have something to do with us losing a cosmic war and like you said you don't let these people police themselves so somebody's gotta be watching us Bingo bingo this is you know Let's be honest, the French and the British particularly the French that have just had their country blown to smithereens by the Kaiser. They're not simply going to sit by and not send spies people basically that look German talk German act German they're not going to sit by and not do this well again this is what I think you see or perhaps see

28:01 with the idea of the watchers. You have quite literally spies, they look like us walk like us and quack like us so essentially they're spies there are somebody's commissioners making sure that we don't violate the terms of our treaty The interesting thing again taking the cue from from the Americans that were there at Versailles advising Wilson They're looking at all of this and this is their background. And they were warning, particularly the Dulles brothers, they were warning at that time that this peace that has just been imposed on Germany is really simply going to guarantee another war. The way to handle the Germans is not to take away their right of self-defense and military sovereignty. Of course, this becomes a huge issue for the Nazis

28:52 to overturn the Treaty of Versailles and restore real sovereignty to Germany. Well, they're going to look at the UFO thing in this way and if they're reading ancient texts and getting a clue as to what might be going on, they're gonna take the same route to assert human independence as was taken after World War I, long before the Nazis came to power. This was already being done in Weimar Germany that the ink on the treaty was no sooner dry than the German army was figuring out well how are we going to get around this? So you know this isn't something unique to Hitler it's to be expected when

29:37 the central European great power and say, well you can't have any armaments anymore. Well that's an absurd position to put in any country yet. Absolutely! So they're going to take the same view I think after World War II with UFO phenomenon They are gonna try figure out what exactly is going on? And it is very clear that they very early came to conclusion that the earth was being reconnoitered because much UFO activity, as I pointed out last year at the Secret Space Program conference was directly concerned with our military installations. Not just in this country but in the Soviet Union as well so you'd have to be basically an idiot not to assume

30:20 that this is some kind of reconnaissance activity and it's also an activity that is very deliberately designed to check and see just how good the defenses are, you know turning our ICBM on and off things in this nature. So the National Security Establishment I think by dent of this fact going to view this as a direct threat to the sovereignty and security not only at the nation but of human species and they're going to react accordingly. And this is the reason for the great secrecy around it, because ultimately the purpose is military and once they've come to that conclusion then they're gonna start thinking okay well this means that we have to go back and look at ancient texts We have to examine The Tower of Babel story, we have to examine all these other legends of the gods intervening in the affairs of mankind

31:13 And usually whenever they do, it's for the purpose of keeping us down and out. So again they're probably going to in my opinion take the post-World War I German approach and develop the means for asserting human independence and sovereignty and doing so very quietly. So yeah, I think that Versailles template is a huge It's a huge cultural matrix, let's just put it that way in which the post-war national security establishment is going to think and transcending even the more recent history of the Cold War. I think this goes back very deeply to the experience that humankind had in World War One

31:59 Man, what a great breakdown and excellent points too. That very well could be why UFOs seem to disable nuclear facilities that seems to be a motif that's popular there but you know I guess if it was part of a policing i would expect it to be more absolute maybe its something thats on autopilot just a shadow of its former self but uh... if it was punishment for you know a cosmic war or something I guess I would just assume that it would be more finally tuned or more over its cause what you know why the secrecy from their perspective well i think you raise a very good point there and in a very good speculation it seems to me kind of on autopilot in a certain sense and that made very well maybe we could we could be dealing with something that was just kinda left here in a robotic

32:52 mode of existence. I tend to think there's enough indicators that we might be dealing with something more than that, but that's certainly a possibility But the other possibility and i mentioned this last year that and it's one of my...I have to be very honest with you here It's one of my pet peeves about ufology And that is the assumption that ET has to be centuries, if not millennia in advance of humanity. I don't think this is the case If you look at just human progress since the Renaissance The Industrial Revolution The early enlightenment and then the Enlightenment...if you look at human technological progress in that span of time we have come extraordinarily far in a very short period of time

33:41 A century ago, we were fighting a world war with airplanes made out of canvas and wood. By the beginning of World War II, a scant 20 years later they were already flying jet aircraft and indeed the Germans put up the first operational jet fighter could have put it up in 42 thank goodness they didn't Hitler made another blunder of a decision but Imagine that, jet fighters fighting in World War II in 1942. And they did manage to have operational jet fighters by 1944. Night vision began in World War II. Smart bombs began in World War II. Television guided bombs, acoustic homing torpedoes all of these things

34:30 were in the brain of thinkers in World War I, and by World War II they were a reality. So we've come a very long way in a very short period of time with our technological capacity for destruction So when you look at the UFO problem now, and I know I'm going around Harvey's barn. But when you look at the UFO problem and national security state, I think probably they would have come to a conclusion that if they're here and worried about us, then number one that means we are not all that far behind. After all if they have technology millennia in advance of us they wouldn't be concerned with this true so it's the concern that's the indicator that that they are not all that much further advanced than we may think

35:27 So I put it to people last year at the Secret Space Program conference that your ability to convince whoever's behind the UFOs if indeed they are intelligent life forms piloting technologies in the skies, and I think that's at least half of the picture. Certainly not the total one but that's a workable hypothesis If you're looking at it that way, then how do you convince that intelligence that's doing this reconnoitering activity? That they better tread very carefully. Well the first thing you do is fire off a bunch of hydrogen bombs and then build a whole lot of them

36:08 So that if they're thinking in terms of any invasion, they would simply be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. And then secondly and more importantly you would begin to leverage your ability to engineer systems on gigantic scales on planetary scales and perhaps even stellar scales to convince whoever that is that we have more than were not showing So I think in actual fact that what may be playing out, especially since World War II is a very careful game of good old-fashioned World War One gunboat diplomacy. We'll send our battleships and make a demonstration and the other side sends their battleships to make a demonstration. I think this maybe what's going on. And again, I put it precisely that way to indicate that possibly some sort

37:05 Versailles template, some sort of historical matrix or context is in play in the thinking of the national security planners and policy makers. Yeah, very interesting thoughts there. I mean it's compelling and last time we talked a little bit about sacrifice in early cultural thinking as it relates to debt but uh...I've also heard you talking about how this idea of debt or sacrifice or another word reparations might come from the aftermath of such a battle as the one were talking about. I think its'a fascinating idea Well, precisely. I'm deliberately avoiding not going into too many details because i don't want to give away the actual content of my talks in particular the first one but when you sit down and do as you have just done the parallels are really really astonishing and they're detailed so one of them is at Versailles the Allied Entente powers had imposed a

38:07 a severe war reparation on Germany, basically making Germany assume the guilt for the entire war solely and individually. Certainly Germany bore a lot of the guilt but not all of it and then secondly to impose just horrendously punitive war reparations on the country Now that in itself you know the allied powers get a lot of flack for that But in actual fact, the French had to pay war reparations after the Franco-Prussian War and they were steep and stiff. And the French did that so I don't have much sympathy for the argument that the war reparations were just unbearable by Germany because the French suffered similar reparations from the Germans after 1871

38:58 The other thing that people have to remember is that when Russia surrendered to the Central Powers in 1918, the Central Powers basically carved out of European Russia an area of occupation from the Baltic States through Poland and a considerable portion of Belarusian and almost the entirety of Ukraine. which the central powers insisted on setting up as kind of a puppet state under their authority or jurisdiction. So in other words, Russia lost a significant amount of territory and on top of this had to pay war indemnities to the central powers. Again, you know, the thinkers at Versailles punished Germany far less than Germany punished Russia

39:48 Now, the Austrians and the Germans had a certain motivation for punishing Russia in that sense because the Russian mobilization in 1914 was also one of the major contributory factors to the outbreak of the war. And Kaiser Wilhelm's last minute attempts to mitigate the situation and head it off with his cousin in St. Petersburg were – by that point they were doomed. So as far as the German planners were thinking, Russia bore almost an equal responsibility for starting the war as did Germany. The motive of revenge and punishment was there on all parts not simply restricted to the Allies so we have to bear that in mind And I do think that when you juxtapose that with the idea of sacrifice it's very interesting that you see the idea of sacrifice

40:47 arising at some point in most traditions, in most texts after some sort of cosmic catastrophe. And if that catastrophe was a cosmic war then what it represents is you have to sacrifice your blood your labor to this order that we're imposing and there's also the idea in those texts the cosmic order has somehow been fundamentally disrupted and in order to maintain it a sacrifice of blood is necessary. Now, that may seem like the farthest thing from modern scientific viewpoints until you remember that if that cosmic war occurred and if there was the destruction of entire planet locally in our solar system that disrupted the celestial mechanics of the solar system

41:44 such that you had to go out and kind of remeasure everything, just as the Enuma Elish suggests. Then yeah you have again a template that is suggesting an arms limitation, that is suggesting a system of decommissioning and hence of espionage And you have finally the idea of reparations kind of plugging into this whole picture. So yeah, the detailed connections are definitely there. That's one of my favorite ones and when we're talking about the ramifications of a post-war situation in the context of this cosmic war I guess could we assume that the players are kind of local? Maybe Earth based is a stretch but maybe more local than Zeta Reticuli

42:32 Oh yeah, I've always assumed that they are at least to some extent localized in that if... Again let's just walk the logic through. If we're dealing with a real cosmic war that occurred here and that somebody on this planet or in control of this planet and other local celestial bodies went berserk and started blowing up planets, and so on and so forth. If you're dealing with that then this means that at least some outpost of whatever civilization took part in that war has to be here locally in the solar system and locally more importantly on this planet after all The French aren't watching the Germans

43:17 from cozy positions behind the Rhine River. They're sending spies and their military attaches into Germany itself, and moreover having them tour the factories and make secret reports back to Paris on what's going on So yeah, it stands to reason that they're going to be right here on this planet keeping an eye on things. Absolutely! Yeah that is a thought that early in my getting into ufology hadn't really come up and in the 90s I guess or at least in the depths I was getting too but when you think about it as something more local I think it makes the whole thing... It amps it up to 10 I think or 11. Oh yeah absolutely absolutely and again this would be the thinking in my opinion

44:01 This would be precisely the thinking of the National Security Establishment after World War II, dealing with all these UFOs. They've got three problems as I put it last year in the Secret Space Program Conference last year. They've got the Communist bloc they have to deal with. They've got indicators that the Nazis are still out there up to no good and then finally they have this whopping big UFO problem So I think, yeah. I think their response is going to be precisely as you indicated they're going to have to take all of this into account and not the least of which is they're gonna have to figure out what they are dealing with and how to deal with it And again, I think that template is there Let's take George Kennan for example one of President Truman's major advisors

44:47 It was Kennan that set up the post-war containment policy, simply contain the Communist bloc long enough and it will implode of its own economic necessity. But in that policy, he was certainly alive to the idea of using covert operations to nudge the process along when possible. So this is exactly the policy that since Truman, the United States has followed more or less. We're still reliant in fact on covert operations to accomplish things that an open overt war wouldn't do.

45:24 So, Kennan. Let's look at Kennan for a moment. Kennan studies guess where? He studies at the University of Berlin. Ah! Yeah that is big ah right there because this means his whole geopolitical outlook is being informed by the higher academic institutions basically have the kingdom of Prussia okay you know of the German Empire of Kaiser Wilhelm This is hard-nosed reality if what we're dealing with here So you've got Kennan at work in formulating these policies and being familiar with Germany and the history of Germany,

46:03 after World War I and how the Germans very quickly circumvented the Versailles Treaty provisions, and were able all of a sudden when Hitler comes to power to rearm at breathtaking speed. Well, the reason why is that the Germans never stopped their covert research on weapons development of that nature. So when Hitler comes to power, he simply transforms the old Reichsherr, that tiny little 100 thousand man army that became a cadre army and it was designed to be a cadre army by the interwar German general staff. That whole army gets promoted to be the officer corps of what would become the Wehrmacht

46:47 So, you know it was a case of sudden rearmament but it really wasn't so sudden when you look behind the scenes. This policy is exactly what I think was put into place after World War II with respect to the UFO's they had to do secret research and over a prolonged period of time into advanced weapons systems. Number one, they had to put into place a secret system of finance to do it number two and number three the motivation most importantly was to maintain human independence because if you're going back to those ancient texts like I said from the Old Testament to the Mesopotamian text to the Greek text

47:34 you know, the Aztecs. Everybody has these stories about the gods and their interference right? And the decision I think was taken well we've had...we've been down that route before and we don't want any more of it We don't want so to speak the cosmic allied high commissioners poking their noses into our business every few centuries So in order to have them not poke their nose into our business we have to have the means to defend ourselves So I think this is a decision that was taken and I think this is why The two-part World War that we fought from 1914 to 1945 is so much

48:10 a crucial part of the thinking of the National Security Establishment vis-a-vis UFO, absolutely. Yeah and you're so right every religion and tradition seems to have elements in this story even Catholicism with fallen angels in a big battle resulting punishment I mean it's twisted into a monotheistic view but its largely the same story another element that seems to come up in some of these texts, I suppose and even more so in just what conspiracy researchers tend to talk about is the idea of a quarantine. Of an idea that sometime somehow that Earth is almost like either a prison planet or some type of vessel itself for punishment it's an odd thing but that could be an element that ties in as well. Well absolutely this is yet another one of those details that indicates to me

49:05 kind of a cosmic Versailles template because again, let's go back to what the Treaty of Versailles actually imposed on Germany. One aspect that people do not pay attention or sufficiently in my opinion is the idea of quarantine zone. The Treaty of Versailles stipulated that entire Rhineland, that little part of Germany west of the Rhine bordering France and Belgium and Luxembourg, was to be demilitarized. And then that demilitarized zone was to extend on the east bank of the Rhine a further 50 kilometers. Okay? And the other part of this that also often gets overlooked is the French president at the time, Georges Clemenceau

49:53 also talked about a cordon sanitaire, he borrowed the term from medicine. A quarantine quite literally. A quarantine clean zone in Eastern Europe consisting of the Baltic states Poland and Romania that number one was to be there for the purpose of keeping Soviet Russia and communism penned in And number two was to be a buffer zone between Germany and Russia in order to prevent the absolutely unthinkable, which would be a Russo-German alliance. And incidentally recently the commander of the US, Commander Stratfor indicated that this is still the central geopolitical problem for American planners is they do not want to see a Russo-German alliance because again you know this would be an absolute blockbuster

50:50 You'd have all of that German industrial potential and all that Russian resources in one alliance, which you don't want. Well this was precisely the thinking after Versailles. The whole – if you look at the treaty very carefully and what it does geopolitically is it breaks up the Austro-Hungarian Empire of course which creates a power vacuum in the center part of Europe leaving Germany alone as the major central power in Europe So the other thing they had to do was keep it quarantined, keep it penned in. And this is precisely the reason for this demilitarized quarantine zone in Western Germany and then the Cordon Sanitaire in Eastern Europe Well if you look at ancient texts very interestingly they talk about similar notions

51:43 Although I should specify and stipulate that in no instance that I am aware of do they come right out and tie this notion directly to a cosmic war. You get little suggestions, you get little sorts of adumbrations of that idea but it never comes...they never come right out say it but if you still have this idea that there's some sort of zone around planet Earth that humanity is not to pass beyond. And it's very interesting that even the definition of the zone itself is very similar to the definitions of the demilitarized zone in the Treaty of Versailles, let's go back again to the treaty and what does it say? It says the entire area west of the Rhine River and then a 50 kilometers deep zone

52:41 from the east bank of the Rhine is a demilitarized zone. Well, what have they done? Well they've just specified by a prominent and almost unchangeable geological feature what the quarantine zone is so if you go to ancient texts they discuss this zone in almost exactly the same way. They define it by absolutely recognizable boundaries that are based on astronomical phenomena, such as the orbit of the moon or in some versions of this quarantine zone you have it as the outermost planetary orbit.

53:19 So in other words, it's not a quarantine zone around the Earth. It is a quarantine zone around the solar system but you nevertheless have this idea of some sort of zone that is defined by clearly identifiable astronomical feature So again, I think the detailed connections just look what you have. You have family fight, okay? World War One, ancient cosmic war. You have decommissioning of weapons, okay? World War One, ancient watchers. You have the idea of reparations. World War One, sacrifice after some sort of cosmic catastrophe in ancient texts

53:58 You have the idea of a demilitarized zone or quarantine zone, World War I. And you have a similar idea in certain ancient texts So it looks to me that if you assume as I do that this national security policy making establishment is going to look at the UFO phenomena and I said this last year at the secret space conference One of the things they are eventually going to have to look at is the history of humanity and any indications in history, in lore, in legends of what they might be dealing with. And if they do look at it as I think they did although would've been very very secret and very classified

54:51 they're going to probably notice these parallels to more recent human history and they're probably going to fashion their response accordingly. Right, that's a great summary and I do just love this template you mentioned the moon and two big moon conspiracies are A.) it was either faked or B.) they saw aliens on the way to the Moon and there really not mutually exclusive really because they could have just faked footage and not shown you the real mission. And they could have also seen aliens, but sure it, you could almost draw a parallel to the fascination with nuclear facilities with them going off planet where these UFOs would be saying like, Hey, where are you going? Like what are you doing? You know, she can't go out here. Yeah, exactly. Well I think, I think it's interesting now that we, that we could be dealing with this situation

55:45 that has been successfully stalemated. And the reason I say that is there's enough, even without getting into Apollo or whether it was faked or any of that we've sent a number of robotic probes to the moon and so have other nations The Soviets, the Chinese now have landed on the moon Other nations have sent orbiters Japan India and so on And they've all taken some very weird pictures of some very weird stuff. Right! And interestingly enough, this kind of began with Japan and India with their lunar orbiters you know they just post these pictures without any comment of just weird stuff. You know here it is folks and were not talking about it okay? Then the Chinese came along and they posted weird pictures as well

56:37 And they posted them on the People's Liberation Army website, as Richard Vogelin pointed out. So in other words they didn't even do this through their space agency for some reason they posted it on their military's website and personally I think that is a huge clue. I think China is sending messages well we saw the same thing and oh were going to post here because its got military implications okay? And even more importantly, as most people probably listening to your show are aware there's been just a flood of very strange pictures now appearing on the internet from Mars. Yes You know the most recent being this Stonehenge thing we're calling it Previously to that it was The Crab you know and I'm not saying that...I think all these pictures are genuine What interests me is the tempo seems to be picking up

57:30 And if these pictures are genuine, you know people have to learn to footnote. If you're going to post these pictures post us the link to the picture at NASA. You know give us the footnote folks this is part of due diligence and scholarship so that's why I'm reserving my judgment but assuming these are genuine pictures then the real question becomes why are they coming out with such a flood of these things now? And again, I suspect that it's because whoever is orchestrating all of this on the terrestrial side. They've decided it's now time to let people know that we have been around in the solar system for quite a while or somebody else has or maybe our cousins or something

58:20 And again, I think all of this probably was known to the national security establishment when they first saw some of these pictures. They probably classified some of them because they weren't ready to deal with the technological implications but once humanity started acquiring... This is a key data point that I hope people will latch on to Once humanity started acquiring the ability to engineer and manipulate systems of a planetary scale as we now have, that implies a military potential that at least brings us to near parity with whatever they may have been dealing with. And hence you'll notice that once that was acquired circa the beginning in its rudimentary forms

59:13 even shortly after World War II, but much more to the point during the 1980s under President Reagan. This is when you saw the beginning of the uptake of these types pictures being posted and talked about and much more recently this has come to a head as we've seen well look what else is happening We have Lockheed releasing its pictures of the fusion reactor it wants put on the back trucks We have indications, you know most recently from Germany that scientists have finally supposedly been able to detect the zero point energy fluctuation and on and on this type of news story goes. And what I'm suggesting is that you have to connect the dots of these types of stories very carefully because in my way of thinking it is significant that these types of stories about alternative energy sources are happening

1:00:09 at more or less the same speed now that we're being subjected to all of these anomalous findings supposedly coming from outer space. To me, that indicates the elite has determined that they've achieved some sort of parity and now it's safe to talk about all this So yeah, there's a lot going on. That's a really interesting take I haven't heard anyone else bring up in relation to why things seem to be speeding up in that sense. I think that's a great analysis. Well very cool man! Very insightful. I do love having you here. You're one of the greats. Of course you will be presenting twice at the Secret Space Program Conference on October 31st and again on November 1st. Would you like to tell people where they can keep up with or anything else?

1:00:57 Yeah, they can get my books right off my website and my web store. That's www.geesethedeathstar.com And yeah I will be speaking twice at the upcoming conference. I'll be speaking the very first thing and the very last thing so... Nice! The book ends. Yeah, I've got my work cut out for me. I have to be honest and say that I'm not all confidence that I'll be able to pull it off though. Oh, I'm sure it will be great but Well thanks man, always a pleasure. Take care of yourself out there alright? Yep you too thanks for having me back on Greg You got it Boom people dropping bombs all day Joseph Farrell he is the man I really look forward to having him on and diving into the current state of his work It's always so interesting I felt kind of bad because i had prepped all these questions about elements of this Versailles template And he made a couple polite comments that might have had a hint of dude your stepping over my upcoming talk

1:01:52 But it's hard to come up with a new line of questioning on the fly when I had thought about so many different angles of this idea. And, so I think we got a little bit more detail about the end of both wars to sort of fill that gap and not get into too much of his presentation and I loved that actually! I thought that was a great little history lesson and though it might be a great way to teach history to kids at the same time get their minds curious about the ancient past and human nature Because my history is not good. I didn't pay much attention in school, we already discussed that with Kara St Louis Just how helpful it can be to remain rebellious in the oppressive school system But you cant deny there's some valuable information in that decade plus worth of schooling And my history is bad My memorization of major dates

1:02:36 is not ideal and I tell myself, oh well there wasn't much to know anyway and it's all heavily manipulated. And that's all true but it also is a convenient excuse and I think tagging this info into an idea like the cosmic war helps me retain it a little bit hopefully some of you guys agree in the plus show today we talked about the Apollo missions in the context of this quarantine The idea that bloodlines and factions in the elite houses and their coat-of-arms This could all be some stuff that's related to the factions in the ancient cosmic war. We talked about the Japanese loot after World War II and the idea of a breakaway Nazi elite, and the tracking of their finances The role of Vatican and Barabans scandal in these finances And tons of fun high octane speculation as Joseph phrased it I'm a bit jealous because that is a great term and wish I had come up with myself

1:03:28 But he's a fun guest and I always like the Zippo sound effects. It's very fitting for THC in a theme song that starts with a sound very similar And i do want to talk about the theme song a minute, I get a lot of mixed reactions and many people are asking me to go back To the old theme song and I've already said I can't go back because that track I talked over is a song by Birdie NamNam and yes! I could just recreate it with another track But that's where I think people would like it even less. Because when something you've heard a thousand times is redone, the subtleties change and then I think it just sounds worse. Yes, It's good to explain the name of the show but I've been around five years and...I think I made my case

1:04:09 So I wanted to go in a totally different direction. And i really liked being able to work on A little musical project, and I did write the lyrics for it and I want To break them down in hopes that some people who don't like It might come around. I wont play it here because you'll hear it plenty of times But you gotta be economical with the words Its short You gotta be informative and grab people THC is a conspiracy and paranormal themed show So how do you say that creatively? Well I got one line for each right out of the gate. The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan there's clearly maybe something there beyond the realm of man boom i mean if i'm a new listener, i'm interested! One conspiratorial line one broad paranormal line

1:04:56 And another layer that's written in there, almost surely and clearly maybe. Well that to me is also a staple of THC it's not about being absolutely sure of these ideas It's that a lot of them make sense and are nearly impossible to verify so I like phrasing those lines in almost an oxymoronic way. And until you've thoroughly tested every last close-chested view... ...I find the more you think you know the less you really do." I mean there it is! Don't get too emotional about the ideas you have, because with so much manipulation going on it's best to just ponder and consider and form some ideas but most ideas have exceptions. And I like to entertain a variety of possibilities rather than get attached to one absolute that's what we're saying there! Then I spliced in a little clip from a great movie either you know or don't and I'm toying with changing that to something random every so often

1:05:52 But the rest really is just there to drive home the name of the show. Where would we be without THC? Because you know they're lying to us, You just don't know what degree again Here be open minds. Where would we be without THC, the Higher Side Chats show? Ding ding ding! There it is...the name Greg Carlwood That's me and company because the guests are really what makes the show an interviewer is like a guy trying to build a house And the work of the guest is the building material You gotta take all these chunks and put them together in the best possible way and try to build a strong big picture And so many hosts don't do the work, they don't read these people's books. They don't dig into the past interviews I try to make sure i always do that and I work really hard To set this show apart from others when really there is only so much you can do with a medium limited to voice But I still try to do it and hope it shows So there we have it Hopefully that new theme song grows on you guys! I happen to really like it

1:06:53 And these closing songs too. Here's another Laura Silva song All the ones we've done are downloadable on the Plus site I'm still waiting to hear back from that Moneybomb winner To play on the next show But that said, good luck to everybody That's it for me this week Your move Nazi Internationals Your fricking move Have a drink and a smoke Listen to the cast We shine a shiny spotlight Put criminals on blast The pinstripe men of mourning And families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild The kids don't stand a chance The kids don't The kids don't stand The kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't The kids don't stand The kids don't stand a chance

1:07:53 We're looking for the answer to questions never asked So we come to the Carlwood for the higher side chats The pinstripe men of mourning and families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild They kids don't stand a chance The kids don't, the kids don't stand The kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand The kids don't stand a chance Involved in shady business We try to get a glance We're working on that number Resistance must advance

1:09:02 The pinstripe men of mourning and families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild the kids don't stand a chance. The kids don't, the kids don't stand, the kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand, the kids don't stand a chance The kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance