Wayne Rohde | Vaccine Injury & Dark Truth Of The Vaccine Court System

00:00 Welcome to another free first hour episode of the Hireside Chats. I know we want to get into the action, but i have to ask that you help me armor us up a bit for the bumpy road ahead because I bring you the first hour of this show without unrelated ad nonsense as proof-of-concept and if you value it then come over to THC Plus for $8 a month and hear full 2 hour interviews as they were designed to be and as you would enjoy them most Go to thehiresideshots.com or just click the link in the show notes to get started and within a minute you'll be plugging in your new Plus Show RSS feed into a hopefully decentralized podcasting 2.0 supported app. Feed the things you want to grow and starve the things that gotta go, and we will reach the promised land! Think about that...and enjoy the show

00:54 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. Start from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire! For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation. I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Back in the saddle and ready to ride, Hiresight Chatters. Doing the thing from sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and once again we're forced to address the many issues surrounding vaccination

01:33 Because despite the onslaught of social pressure, censorship risk and in some cases legal requirement there needs to be some counterbalance to the aggressively gung-ho coordination of monothought across our culture that vaccines are always and forever safe and effective. That vaccine manufacturers with serious criminal rap sheets are God's gift to man And science is settled with no room for criticism Even though countless parents have watched healthy, happy children regress to an autistic state days after any of the ever-increasing rounds of shots given on the official childhood vaccination schedule. And many more mourn children hit with a mysterious condition we call sudden infant death syndrome occurring quite often curiously within the same windows of time

02:19 Add in this global COVID-19 vaccination campaign and you have the same situation. An entire culture waiting to pounce on anyone who dares connect the sudden onset of new autoimmune conditions, stroke blood clots or any range of injuries to the shot they were just given days or weeks earlier To even suggest a word of caution can often lead to tongue lashing from any good obedient citizen who might be around to hear ya, and opt out of this vaccination regimen has people being ostracized as social pariahs, scrounging for empathetic like-minded resources and labeled as public health threat.

02:57 Again, COVID-19 has taken this to a new level with the skeptical and cautious ones stuck to deal with travel restrictions being told to mask up without any end in sight. And in some cases even being told to find a new line of work but talk about harsh side effects and any other medical context like pharmaceuticals and it's taken as a given Discuss multinational corporations cutting corners and suppressing unsavory data in any other industry, and it's hardly even taboo. Or bring up the notion of personal freedom and civil liberties in any other arena, and you'll find very little argument! Across the board though, vaccination is an oddly curious exception to our typical ways of doing things with private corporations being granted oddly curious legal immunity and an oddly curious special court system set up to keep these legal battles outside the purview of the general public. Well these are things today's guest Wayne Rohde knows all too well as he has taken up the cause of journalism and activism in this area after having vaccine injury hit home in a tragic way

03:59 He's the author of The Vaccine Court, The Dark Truth About America's Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which has a newly revised and expanded edition hitting the market as we speak. He's also a contributing author on these subjects to many like-minded websites such as The High Wire, and he also hosts the Right On Point podcast. A show dedicated to discussing your civil liberties health freedom and more surrounding the vaccine issue. He is a light in darkness and I'm psyched to have him here! The medical freedom advocating author and vaccine policy resisting podcaster the great Wayne Rohde welcome to the higher side Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that introduction Greg. That's very inspiring! Thank you very much.

04:42 You got a man i try to hype them up but on the subject this serious it's sometimes hard to thread that needle but i do appreciate you doing this, i had seen some of your contributions to the high wire then i got your book and i started listening to your podcast. It's real pleasure to have here to share wealth of knowledge that you have on these issues now what But sadly, like so many people who end up in the position of being advocates of vaccine safety. It's because you've seen the dark side of all this stuff firsthand right? Can tell people a little bit about your story? Sure I often begin by saying that a lot of advocacy in this world is result of personal tragedy and it doesn't matter what area you're talking about

05:31 A lot of the advocacy that starts is people who have been faced with the tragic events or serious adverse events confronting them. In my family, my wife and I we celebrated the birth of our twin boys back in 1997 they're now 20 age 23 going to be 24 in October And our son Nicholas, at the age of 13 months which was the first time we vaccinated the boys. They were a little bit premature and then by the time we brought them home when they were 12 months old they were just typical little boys reached all their milestones development everything and we took him in for the MMR vaccine vaccination at 13 months

06:24 And Nicholas had a severe reaction to it. And he was screaming, you know... Of course kids are going to scream when they get punched with the needle but his screams were going on for several hours and he started to arch his back and the doctor says I'll just take him home and give them a little bit of Tylenol once again is that we found out a few years later that Tylenol is the worst thing to give to a child especially dealing with vaccination The body, especially an infant is trying to absorb the ingredients of the vaccination and try to detox or get rid of the toxic ingredients. And Tylenol actually prevents the body or retards the body from doing so. So basically what we've been telling a lot of people around the world this is that never give Tylenol to an infant child

07:26 Never. It is probably one of the worst medical ingredients or drugs to give to a child, but he continued to have suffer from the MMR vaccine and over the next couple weeks we would get a lot of his temperature spikes would go up and then we'd bring him back down could go from constipation to diarrhea vomiting spitting not much of an appetite And that settled down after a couple weeks. We didn't know really what was going on, but we were constantly on the phone with the doctor and the pediatrician says okay everything looks fine let's just ride this thing out But then we noticed a problem he started slowly declining and over a course of probably 18 months He went from a child that was actively playing to a child that lost his speech

08:29 did not want to associate with his brother, a lot of different things. We didn't know what that was all about and our doctor told us oh Einstein didn't talk until he was four or five and we go okay but it just didn't answer the questions that we had right It's mind-boggling today when you look back and go through all the medical records so we probably got about 10 or 15 huge those banker boxes full of documents, medical records. Just looking at that the doctors really don't know what's going on when there is a child having this severe reaction we now know that he suffered an encephalopathy brain injury and it led to his diagnosis at the age about four-and-a-half of what we call severe regressive autism And thats where he is today He's nonverbal

09:32 lives in pull-ups, dependent on us. He's a loving child wants to watch movies who wants to you know he's got his little toys but he doesn't associate with other people doesn't know how to...he communicates with us because we know what he wants and he can lead us to what he needs if he wants to go the bathroom he'll kind of get up and start walking that direction we know what's going on there he goes out in the backyard all the time Jumps up on the trampoline, but he's associated only with himself and then you know He'll come and sit with us a lot or I'll take him out driving around. He loves driving around in the neighborhoods Just looking at all the trees in the yards and things like this So it's kind of interesting But he will be living with us for The rest of our lives and we'll provide the care that he needs so that started this on this journey but

10:36 The first part was not really vaccination issues. It was more of autism issues because I had to start dealing with it and my wife and I started talking together, we didn't want to say the A word, autism, and we got a diagnosis. We had Columbia University trained psychologist in Oklahoma at the time where were living and she gave us the diagnosis Over a series of couple weeks we had to do back and forth in communication and some surveys. She did some sit downs with Nicholas, said we really don't know much about autism. Says here's two pages I Xeroxed out of the textbook. Here is the prescription for Ritalin. And I'm going what? That's all they knew! That's all she knew at that time. It was insane

11:34 So we started digging into it, and my wife really led into the charge of digging why autism. And we found the National Vaccine Information Center which is founded by Barbara Lowe Fisher and she started communicating with them and getting more information and she started figuring out that wait a minute, we've got a possible vaccine injury I said you gotta be kidding me But I didn't know at the time because as a child myself, I only received a couple vaccines. And I was born in 1960. Yeah. I've got smallpox little scar on your left shoulder and remember taking the polio on a sugar cube but that was about it really

12:20 We had measles as a kid and we had all the neighbors come on over. We had measles parties, right? You know, we had chickenpox parties and no one had any issues with that because the moms knew what to do So we have measles I stay home from school for two or three days and eat jello and pudding And drink water look you know What's wrong with that right yes, you know so it was kind of the way things were back then so I didn't understand now or at the time with my son, all these adverse events and the ingredients inside vaccines. I had no idea what they were until we started researching them and looking into them. And we decided okay, we got to do something about it. My wife contacted an attorney that worked in this area and sent copies. I mean, I spent hundreds of dollars getting copies of medical records

13:20 Xeroxing them at a Kinko store at the time and we mailed them up. I had to do it by UPS in boxes, and he got all the documents that says you've got a wonderful case for vaccine injury but we have a problem. You're too late filing. We could what? Says the statute of limitations was only three years from injury when the symptoms to when you file and you're already three years, nine months. And we go oh okay so now we had nothing that what else do we do? Well I gotta concentrate on getting my son as best as we can and we started working we were living in Oklahoma we start working with autism we found out that well there was actually two specialists in the entire state that knew anything about autism as far as working therapists are working with them

14:19 And that bothered me and we started getting insurance denials left and right for services that are being provided. How do i pay for all this you know we got several thousand dollars worth of medical bills here, we just started and the insurance companies are saying no So I started digging around and it was like 2005 and 2006. And i said there's got to be a better way, and started looking at the laws of the state of Oklahoma. What I found was that insurance companies actually knew autism was coming forward It was going to be a big problem because they actually covered therapies and services for autism

15:12 Back in the nineties and then quietly excluded them in their policies as people renewed them two thousand two thousand one two thousand two so they no longer covered autism services but that's when the big. Title wave started coming forward on shore if you will united states around the world of autism diagnosis so i said okay i gotta do something about it I said, I'm going to change the law in Oklahoma because this is not right. Because what will happen is if we don't address this issue you'll have hundreds of thousands of kids and just the state are going to be abandoned by their parents. They're gonna end up in the jails and they're gonna be provided care whatever form it is by the taxpayers. And its can be extremely expensive

16:14 We're not talking 10, 15, 20 kids. We're talking hundreds if not several thousand kids coming on board and it's going to continue." So I went up to the legislature and started doing some research and finding out that there was one state that already did this. That was Indiana looked at their laws said okay i gotta do something then as we started communicating This is back before social media really took off, right before that. So all you had is Yahoo discussion groups and email threads and I found a group in South Carolina that was doing something and I found a group at Texas that was doing something so we started communicating and sure enough Texas and South Carolina passed legislation

17:06 In 2007 to say we're gonna start addressing this a little bit i put forth what I thought was some good language and went up shopping looking for legislators. I spent the summer of 2007 with approximately about 30 or 40 different legislators and they all turned me down they said no we just can't do this This will basically force insurance companies to go out of business because it'll increase premiums and people will not be able to afford insurance plans. I said, well other states have done that looking at it with actuarial tables that shows that doesn't really impact when you look at the breadth of the insurance plans. Needless to say is that basically Oklahoma's a very conservative state

18:02 And at the time, it was almost a one party state. The conservatives have run the state legislature and they were adamantly opposed to this and me being more of a conservative person I said you know that's tough for me to go against what I believe in things like this but i did find a State Senator and J Paul Gumbel was the guy and he ran with it and we started getting some traction and then A lot of parents, a lot of families started coming out It was unbelievable and we were making a lot of headway but we would get to the point where we can never pass the legislation. Yet, we were spending ourselves about $2500-$3000 dollars a month on services for our son Nick that's cash money every month we would hand over to therapists and what we call paraprofessionals for the work that they did

19:05 They were getting reimbursed from the state or through other insurance companies so we had to pay cash and then we're working with our son at the same time. So it was a extreme burden on us and other families for cashing in college funds inheritance selling out, what family in southwest oklahoma sold their ranch because they had two kids With autism they moved into town solar ranch and started trying to pay for services to try to get them away from the iron claws of this one on in we just couldn't make any headway regards to insurance stuff. We're broke all the time and decided we had to make a change by two thousand ten there was no approximately

20:01 About twenty five, twenty seven states that passed insurance coverage and we couldn't believe it. But yet Oklahoma was not one of them I had some friends up in Minnesota my wife put out some feelers with some recruiters and then she got recruited for an IT job up in Minneapolis area We said let's move up there because they do have insurance coverage So he moved up there And we moved the family and when we got up there, Nick was able to get the services. It's not handouts it is just access to doctors but they did have insurance coverage so we had doctors who were able to take bill insurance but we are still paying out of pocket for some things Once we got up there this idea being statute limitations still bothered me

20:57 and vaccine injury. And I had to get back into it because I said, okay now that issue is taken care of, Nick's services are taken care of, I want to get back to something that really has been bothering me ever since and what caused Nick to have these reactions? And I had some friends in New York and some friends in California that said, Wayne you know you've always talked to other families about insurance coverage. Why don't you talk to them about the people that have suffered vaccine injury? So I started talking to a few and i got encouraged and I talked to an attorney who I got to know really well who practices in this area he says You need to write a book about the families your interviews so you know in the spring of 2011

21:57 doing recordings of interviews and I ended up interviewing over 285 families over a course of two years. And it started putting things together, and I was able to hookup with a publisher Skyhorse Publishing out in New York, and they agreed to publish my first book which is called The Vaccine Court the dark truth America's vaccine injury compensation program It was basically kind of personal review of the program, not from a legal standpoint as much as for you know being a legal writer but more just a layman. A common person's viewpoint but also included a couple interviews The first book was actually about 700 to 800 pages and it got trimmed down to 285 because it was just too wordy lot of those legal process

22:55 So I trimmed it down and published it in the fall of 2014. And that's what we have, what I put out there back then was that book and it raised some eyebrows. I got some nasty telegrams from the Department of Justice and from HHS and a few other people saying how dare you talk about this as if you're not correct? secrets and what was not supposed to be mentioned in the public square about this program. And it's not a pro vaccine nor an anti-vaccine book, not at all. It's a process. It's illegal process. Most people don't understand that this is one industry where you cannot sue for what we call defective design or product liability for injuries

23:53 You can if you're a, you know asbestos or Vioxx for the pills from pharmaceutical industry. Or if you have a defective child seat in your car but you can't if it's a vaccine right now currently you cannot file a suit for an injury Against you or one of your family members people don't understand that they still don't understand that right every aspect of this issue is tilted in favor of the manufacturers and

24:30 No parents with vaccine injured children have my deepest empathy because it has to feel like you're stuck in a weird twilight zone episode where people get mad at you for even suggesting that's what happened. And the uphill struggle of actually having an acknowledged and compensated for take so much strength that would be hard to muster up while also dealing with the consequences of the damage, It just really add so much insult to injury it seems and the stories that you do have in the book are. Quite powerful and the book covers just so many important aspects of this whole situation when i think about the debates i end up caught in,

25:11 It always seems like this concession of, yes some people will be injured by these injections but it's a tiny fraction of the people who are protected from a range of serious diseases. That's the case everyone makes although the more I learn the more it seems like the perceived risk of the diseases we vaccinate for is over exaggerated like you mentioned My dad says the same thing about when he was a kid measles just happened and then the real numbers of people injured is grossly underestimated so it's really hard to even get a proper conception. Of the risk verse reward of inoculation and it's just completely one sided but

25:55 Maybe with all the data you've gathered, you can help us get a clearer picture of the truth in those regards for people who have been conditioned to think that it's a necessary protocol even with the prospect of some people being injured and never being the same again. Right? Well when they act that establishes the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program It was passed in 1986 We all know President Reagan signed What a lot of people don't understand is he did not want to. It was part of a defense budget reconciliation bill, so the only way to get this part through and he had some major concerns and his vice president and a couple of advisors basically had to drag him there to say you need to sign this in. The program started in 1988

26:52 But also this act, also created what we call the VAERS system. The Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System which is going to be operated and maintained by the CDC and that went live in 1990. This is the reporting system that were allowed to submit reports of adverse reactions Now, the law says is that doctors and clinicians are required to input if they see anything from their offices and do that. But there's no teeth to the law. There's no penalty so that's why we find out that most doctors and nurses and clinicians never input or they'll decline No I don't want to do

27:43 A lot of it's peer pressure. When I was talking to those families, I only found two families that told me that someone at the hospital or in the doctors clinic office would help them file a VAERS report—only 2 out of 285. And I found that outstanding. There were a lot of reasons why they wouldn't. They said…well, a nurse told one parent says well if i do that I could get fired A lot of doctors said there's no such thing as vaccine injury. I've never seen vaccine injury in my days. Well, the problem there is in medical school they're only taught vaccine injuries it has to have an instant reaction. My son had an instant reaction but my pediatrician said just go home and give him Tylenol most vaccine injuries whether they're reported or not

28:42 take days, weeks maybe months to manifest themselves. Currently most vaccine injuries are autoimmune disorders in nature those don't happen overnight so when we're looking at vaccine injury people say oh you're just a bunch of anti-vaxxers no we're the ones that actually were in favor vaccines and we had an adverse reaction many parents lost their child or their spouse, or a loved one in their family. The majority of parents also now deal with vaccine injury whether a child is wheelchair bound for the rest of their lives or needing around-the-clock care or child is suffering from seizures other medical conditions

29:41 I guess people don't understand unless they actually know a family or know a person that has had an injury. There's very few people, and you're one of them that actually understands this area where you might not have suffered a vaccine injury but you know what is happening. VAERS is a reporting system it's more of voluntary passive reporting system but couple things that people don't understand The vaccine manufacturers are supposed to dump what they call post-marketing data into it if there is any signals that they see or after the vaccines out there on the marketplace. We've had studies looking at VAERS showing that anywhere from one to five percent of all injuries are actually reported, so when you see 6 000 deaths in VAERS system pre-COVID

30:40 Does that mean that they could be 60,000 or 600,000 deaths? We don't know. We'll never know things have all changed now with COVID pre-COVID these numbers were astronomical when you have 400,000 serious and we're not talking Soreness in the shoulder or the injection site. We're talking emergency room, hospitalization that type of serious event or worse and there's also some deficiencies if you file a VAERS report and you had suffered seizures You file a VAERS report we have no way to amend it

31:25 And if you had continuing seizures or do the person pass away a little bit later on, you have no way. So you have a VAERS report that says suffered seizures on this date but we don't hear the rest of the story. Right? No follow up. There's a lot of issues there with VAERS but it does give us some things when you look at today's events You hear all CDC says there's 28 people who've had blood clots whatever Well, that depends on how you define it. Blood clots are defined in the VAERS system I think eight or nine different ways if you only look at one small very narrow yes you get 28 if you look at all the ways that it can be filed you get 15 16 000 reports of just blood clots so we've got to a point now where I can't trust CDC I can't trust FDA

32:25 Oh, by the way everybody says FDA has to approve it. Guess what? FDA approved Vioxx. Tell that to the tens of thousands of people that died from medicine. We don't actually investigate the clinical trials or oversee the clinical trials we just take the word of the vaccine manufacturers and their clinical trial data so they can manipulate it. That happened with Gardasil right the data was manipulated Yeah Gardasil is definitely a good case study. We've done an entire show on that one once before and obviously there are a lot of vaccines we could isolate as good case studies, MMR of course but if we look at the DTAP shot oddly this is the one that even when I mentioned to friends and family that we probably won't vaccinate our future kids

33:17 I often hear, well maybe you don't have to get all the shots but definitely get the D-Tap. And i don't know why but the d tap shot seems to be this line in the sand for a lot of people...I'm guessing because they've heard how terrible whooping cough is for infants But is it though because the numbers I see seem to suggest that there's about 18,000 cases a year and seven deaths. Plus i see natural path websites that indicate whooping cough is easy to treat with a couple spoonfuls of turmeric and other herbs So similarly to cove it i'm feeling like there's this fear of a hypothetical driving the vaccinations and one. It's not clear how founded that fear really is when the ones hyping up the problem profit from the solution,

34:02 And two, the risks of the shot are not even factored in or weighed against this very small number of deaths far below 1%. Is the number of adverse reactions less than one percent? Are we even sure they'd be capturing all the potential after effects properly. I doubt it but for some reason the marketing is extra strong around the DTAP shot and i guess i would just ask if you have any thoughts about this one specifically Yeah, well I think a lot of emergency room doctors will tell you that one of the worst things that they see with newborns is whooping cough and we all have to understand that. That is not a good scenario but here's the issue when's the last time you heard of a diphtheria outbreak? Well right never but the conventional view is that because of the vaccine No it's...and tetanus We don't have tetanus outbreaks

34:59 The old adage that if you step on a rusty nail and go to the hospital, they're going to give you a tetanus shot. Well, the tetanus vaccine doesn't work when it's already been exposed. So things like this... The issue here is that the DTaP, the way its being built today, way its being constructed today there is an association with what we call early onset epilepsy or seizures. There is a connection there now our government will say no it's not because its been debunked they're using a study that was done in 2006 out of Australia that was 14 people in this study and that study, the Berkowitz Study inconclusively reached their conclusion

35:58 that DTAP didn't cause early onset seizures and what we call epilepsy is when you get it if someone's having two or more seizures within a certain period of time, like you mentioned with your family pet. That's basically epilepsy. They conclude that it doesn't cause that but yet we have that all the time. We still have that all the time And that's where science, they believe in science. Well they said science is settled it's never settled we can show that its an inconclusive study its only 14 people studies need to be several thousand deep they need to be ongoing and over a period of years just actually show whether or not it's effective or dangerous whatever you know I had my conversation the other night with my wife about

36:54 If you were going to vaccinate against something, what would you vaccinate against? And I said the standalone measles vaccine had a pretty good safety record. But we don't give the standalone measles vaccine anymore. It's bundled with MMR and Merck did a pretty good number on all of the doctors and run out all of the competitors and now we have this MMR that is the monopoly situation or it is MMR2 and then the MMRV And it's causing a lot of complications. It's just too much for these kids, it's ridiculous now. A lot of the whooping cough outbreaks that we're seeing around the country are within a vaccinated community." Yeah I've heard that. What we know why is this that the vaccine wanes doesn't last. The immunity that is given doesn't last that long

37:51 Conversely, the immunity that you get from being naturally exposed and infected by whooping cough generally is lifetime. So you should be able to repel whooping cough if you've been exposed to it naturally now a lot of people have been exposed to minor versions of it whatever in their immune systems prevented and fought off the infection But the DTaP vaccine, and there's even the people like Paul Offit and others made the case that DTaP is not working against whooping cough. We need to go back to some variation of the DPT vaccine which was very dirty and very dangerous. And by the way that's what drove our country to create the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was the DPT vaccine

38:48 But another thing is that this compensation program is no longer for children. One of the things in my new book, The Vaccine Court 2.0 which is being released today... Yes okay I wasn't sure if it was a full sequel or just a revised edition because Amazon kind of lists it under the same listing you switch over to paperback and goes to the 2.0 You go to Kindle and it just reroutes to the original so It almost appears as though its just an updated book but this is a full sequel your saying Well, not necessarily. I keep certain points in from the original book but i added several new chapters. I did revise the data to reflect because the data points that I used and original books stopped in 2013. Well, I brought them forward to 2020 but I added several new chapters one on SIDS one on Gardasil and then another one

39:47 this program has moved away from children and is now what I call adults only. Another chapter which i'm really, really proud of is Ripple of Hope it's based on Robert F Kennedy speech in 1966 in South Africa on apartheid where he talks about the ripple of hope and what I did there was that in 2011 there was a paper called The Unanswered Questions that delivered to Congress in May of 2011 by Attorney Mary Holland, who's now the President and General Counsel of Children's Health Defense. Attorney Robert Krakow who is practicing in the NBICP, attorney Lisa Collin and investigator Lou Conti. And they put together—they started back in 2008—and they put together a paper and found

40:43 Many cases, actually 83 cases of compensated vaccine-induced autism in the program where our government says we don't compensate for autism. So I did the backstory on that. I talk about how those four people met up what they went through the harassment threats and how they brought this paper together to peer review process you know and publishing it and then the follow-up there from what happened afterwards. And it's quite interesting, and I hope the readers will read it and enjoy as much as I did to write it in interview those four principles plus also a few of the volunteers that worked on that project. But since then Lou Conti and I we think we have at least 26 if not more cases of compensated for vaccine induced autism

41:42 Since 2011, our court system is actually still compensating even though they deny it. But the way they're worded in there is that in the decisions they don't write autism at all and they're still in there and you start looking at the life care plans, you start looking at things and you start making conscious say wait a minute, we are going to start paying for these types of treatments and therapies? Those are autism treatments and therapies. Yeah, and just the admission of having even one case is saying like look this can happen if you're paying out even a single case you are saying it can happen You know even though the perception out there is that that's impossible And it's all been debunked right well as interesting as is that in 2009 Lou Conti was sitting at his home in New York It was rainy afternoon

42:36 And this is what I call my Watergate, the deep throat moment. He gets this call caller ID says it's a Washington DC phone number he doesn't identify he answers the phone call and it's this guy and says Lou Conte he says yes and he says keep looking in goes what are you talking about? Says there's hundreds if not thousands of cases You need to keep looking into them And then that was it. He wouldn't identify himself and hung up, but it was a DC phone number and you look at a couple other parts of it looked like he came from within our federal government so someone in they know something's there so it's kind of an interesting moment and that's what really put forward even faster we got to get going on this right

43:35 We've got vaccine injury left and right, and our kids are getting hurt. But then our adults are getting hurt too. And that's... Whereas when I talk about the adults only chapter it started with the flu shot. The flu shot was added about 15-17 years ago to the program. It was approved for administration to children. That's the standard Today, it's either approved for children or pregnant mothers is the standard to be included in the program. The CDC's ACIP committee votes and if it's approved for routine administration to children or pregnant mothers then it can be added to the NVICP as an approve vaccine." Then the injury started showing up and it started about 2007 and Guillain-Barre

44:28 raises its ugly head. Guillain-Barre, some people call it the modern day polio and there's a lot of very very similar symptoms A lot of people are debilitated by it wheelchair bound or having to wear crutches or walk with the walker Or even worse Some people are able to recover but you know once again our medical community says Guillain-Barre unknown origin and some people were able to recover. So we really don't know how people get this, and you look at it go wait a minute lot of it is centered around the flu shot somewhere on the pneumonia vaccine, the normal cockerel vaccine, The adult version of DTAP which is TDAP And that's where we're starting see a lot of adults developing Guillain-Barre and it picks up speed by 2012

45:31 shoulder injuries started to appear on the horizon. People couldn't understand why shoulder injury at the beginning people think it's not really a vaccine injury per se, it's more of result of poor administration they stuck needle in the wrong way in the arm too high up in the arm and into the joint or whatever but new science over the last two years has emerged that It's not just the needle. It's actually the ingredients within the vaccine into the bursa sac of the shoulder that causes the soreness and then we have a government official in court saying, oh this is nothing more than an ouchie arm. And that really insulted the tens of thousands of people that are getting injured because lot of these injuries require surgery or therapy some recover most do not

46:28 It's very painful. You might not be able to lift your arm up above your shoulder for the rest of your life, some people lose the use of an arm we had one gentleman who filed a claim that had to have his arm amputated because of infection and absence so it's much more than an ouchy arm our government is just looking at it as this is an inconvenience a little bit this vaccine injury in the adults for servo what they call shoulder injury as results of vaccine administration is now taking over the program. Between that and Guillain-Barre, you're looking at almost 80% of all filings in the program are a result of shoulder injury and Guillain-Barre. And what I've been tracking when I started interviewing these families, I started pulling in case decisions and court dockets of all these petitions that are what they call public domain, and now built on database of about 14,000

47:30 And in that, I started seeing some nasty trends over the last four years. Anywhere from 93 to 94% of all compensated cases in the United States are now adults. Okay? So you got less than 6% or so of cases compensated are children. That's really bothersome since this program is supposed to be about for children it's not about adults Yeah, and children are being discarded one. They don't allow petitions to be filed for sins We don't allow the DTAP injuries as far as they will shoot those down in our beat dismiss them for early onset of seizures or epilepsy Most your guard is still injuries if they're serious are going to be dismissed if it's what they call bad

48:25 premature ovarian failure or sterility in young girls and they won't know it until they get to be where they want to start having families. And that could be anywhere from 10-12 years after they get the initial vaccine, right? They will build a case. And right along these lines I had copied this down from your book regarding the DTAP vaccine but you say With the McIntosh study, the authors concluded that there was no rational basis for withdrawing the DTaP immunization for fear of causing Dravet syndrome or entering the brain by direct or presumed immune-medicated mechanism. And according to this McIntosh study they concluded that it does not matter whether or not the vaccine triggered an earlier onset of Dravet syndrome as they were going to get it sooner or later and for context

49:19 They are trying to brush off concerns of what was happening with the d tap vaccine injury and they were saying well some kids have this certain gene, add this gene mutation causes drabbit syndrome and. Whether or not the vaccine triggers it isn't important because they were going to get it anyway. And so those aren't injuries that we're going to blame the vaccine for, and we're not going to compensate for those because it's something different. Meanwhile like it's not like they test babies for all these possible reactions or genes before they just start injecting them. And I just thought that was another log on the fire of trying to skirt the issue or deflect real damage and say, well it's something else. Well Greg is not just a log on the fire it might be a cord of wood A whole pickup truck What you touch base with and let me elaborate a little bit

50:20 It's a French syndrome. Dervais is the guy that came up with it, but you know, Dervait, Dervais... The issue is that there is a gene mutation—the SCN1A gene—supposedly there's mutation that this Berkovits study says if these people have it, if these kids have it they're going to have early onset of epilepsy and seizures it doesn't matter whether it's a vaccine or anything else, they're going to develop seizures and epilepsy. That's this 14 people." Well what the inside the study is that only 11 of the 14 actually had this gene mutation so it's not conclusive nor is it conclusive that if you look at large numbers of those who have that gene mutation will they all develop epilepsy and seizures?

51:23 We know now that that is false too. So the thinking was, is that if you had DeVay syndrome it doesn't matter you're going to develop epilepsy and seizures which is now false but they used it as saying okay when... The program has four levels of adjudication and appeals. The first level's a special master's and you have your attorney, DOJ represents the government and you hash it out there. If you don't like it or the government doesn't like the decision, you can appeal to the second level which is the Court of Federal Claims which is in DC. And its only place where you can sue personally sue the federal government that's for tax court all the IRS issues all the VA issues are settled all the Medicaid Medicare issues are settled and thats were MVICP

52:22 and they can review it. If you don't like that decision, you can then appeal up to what we call a Federal Circuit Court of Appeals which is a three-judge panel and that's in DC and they can review and make their opinions and you can make your argument with your attorney and then they can develop their orders or opinions. And then the fourth step is the U.S. Supreme Court Well, when you go to the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals this is a dangerous move because this is where precedent law is set. Meaning it can be written in stone and what happened was in these Dervais syndrome cases there was a case the Darabu case a young girl out of Florida they appealed up to the federal circuit

53:15 One of the requirements that was done in the regular case is that she got tested for the Gervais syndrome and shown she was positive for this gene mutation. So, the Federal Circuit ruled that the government can force people to be tested prior to filing a petition for Gervais syndrome So now you're compelled if you, Greg, you and your wife have a child. Do you think you have an injury? And I'm just taking as an example here from the DTAP vaccine before you filed the government's going to say please you're compelled if you're going to continue, You're gonna take this test. You're gonna have to have this genetic test done currently. I think it's about 6-700 dollars to do the test

54:16 And if it comes back positive, your case will be dismissed. Wow! That's the current setting here is the problem that has been in place since 2007 a couple of years ago there was a case that came forth on another issue but DTAP was the vaccine and the case in Oliver versus HHS and got up to federal circuit and judges questioned said wait a minute Science is not settled and Judge Newman, she's an interesting judge. Judge Newman is the one that questioned the government's position and said science has not settled we now have because in the briefs petitioner filed where new studies have shown that those who had the Dervais syndrome are not necessarily doomed to get early onset of epilepsy seizures

55:21 You cannot rely on that. We no longer can use that as a marker and say, this is what's going to happen." But they went ahead the judge panel voted against the petitioner Newman abstained but the other two judges voted against the petitioner we know those studies exist we know the science is not settled and it's evolving and we need to proceed but this is the way the system is in its maddening that currently right now, you bring a case of DTAP causing seizures. You will not be successful." So what that happens is is that these attorneys that represent the petitioners their fees get paid for by the program there's a trust fund that pays compensation but it also pays for medical experts and attorney fees

56:16 They're not going to bring these cases forward either because the special masters are gonna say, wait a minute. You're wasting our time you brought a case that doesn't have any reasonable basis therefore your three or $4000 that you invested in the markup of the case and getting it ready and filing everything else and obtaining medical records those costs were not gonna reimburse you for so you see this aggressive screening that's being done by attorneys on these types of cases saying, you know all these petitioners or people coming forward say hey my son was injured or my daughter was injured. They're gonna say sorry can't help you Wow and nothing could be done it's maddening but that's just detail yeah You got SIDS? You got Gardasil issues? Gardasil yes you can get compensated for certain things

57:11 but not for the debilitating ones like POTS and premature ovarian failure, and all these other major issues because they don't want those to be you know like this. If you don't mind can I switch gears and move into SIDS? This is something that really is mind-boggling. Absolutely! SIDS is something I definitely planned to get into with you even the name sudden infant death syndrome shows that western medicine is sort of stumped Of course, they would never make this connection but in my mind it's not that big of a leap that we should be looking at the slew of injections they get right around the time that typically occurs. But I'll be quiet and let you give it to us what went into this new SIDS chapter that you added? So SIDS is kind of a difficult chapter because with children when they get vaccinated

58:05 We normally get several vaccines at one time, maybe all in a combo shot or two or three containing seven or eight different vaccines and different ingredients. So when you have an injury it's going to be difficult to find out which vaccine or combination of vaccines actually caused the injuries. And that's why they're very difficult to adjudicate Whereas adults only have one or two at a time. You get a flu shot, or you might get a Tdap booster and that might be it. Now with SIDS is because we see a lot of kids that maybe on their three-month or six month visits, well baby visits, you get two or three different vaccines. Maybe if the day of birth they'll get the Hep B which is just asinine why we do this

58:57 So you have these conditions. Now, in the beginning the program was compensating SIDS cases left and right. And they were paying families the maximum benefit for death which is up to $250,000. That happened in the course of their early 90s and through the late 90's. Then the program switched gears And it became more difficult. By the mid 2000s, it came extremely difficult to seek compensation. I think the last compensated case was in 2011 for some type of SIDS. But the way it works is that... The way these petitions are filed is that you'll see baby who's vaccinated bring home crying or went to sleep

59:56 Parents go in to check on him three or four hours later and the baby's blue, so they call an ambulance. And you know that's your story or it happened a day later whatever but it doesn't explain... You have a vaccine was the only thing that's changed. Well they're gonna blame all the baby maybe suffocated whatever well It's easy you can check out into autopsy for things like this So you had SIDS cases and they started coming into the program and were fairly well compensated. But it wasn't until, you know, the mid 2000s where our government was really challenging them. And that's because that's when we started pushing a lot of childhood vaccinations. We upped the schedules dramatically. Then you had a case—it's an interesting case—that was filed back in 2015. Bultman, the Bultman family

1:00:54 lost their child. And the original compensation, or the original decision back in 2017, The Special Master ruled in favor of the family and ruled against the government and they used a medical expert named Dr Douglas Miller who has a theory and it's well documented through his own research that there is An external stressor has to be present in the SIDS cases. That's the modern medical, I guess protocols for when they're looking at SIDS cases there is an external stressor it could be suffocation it could be something else Douglas Miller is opined that vaccination is an external stressor which he's very credible science and research but its his own research and science behind

1:01:53 Okay. So he uses that, the special master says yes. The government didn't want that you could tell right away and they went to what they call judge shopping may appealed it up to the federal court of claims got the right judge just say no in reverse that decision so the Bolton family appealed that decision up to the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals one step below the Supreme Court in the oral argument now The oral arguments is where you have your attorney and the government's attorney, and they argue for 20 to 25 minutes a piece to a three panel judge or judge panel. And the government's argument... Now this is where I found really remarkable is that—and I'm paraphrasing—it said, Your Honors if you compensate the parents in this case

1:02:57 What will happen is, is that many parents will no longer vaccinate their kids. That was their argument. Nothing about science, nothing about vaccine injury or whatever." It's just bad PR they said. That's right! That's exactly right and the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in favor of the government and denied the petitioner compensation So now the only thing left for them to do is appeal to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will not pick that up, they're not going to touch that. That's where it stood so basically that froze all new petitions there are attorneys who said I can't take anymore because the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals has already spoken its precedent setting like this but it was based on

1:03:55 this one scientist's research, basically looking at different cases. While there was a different angle that still could be approached and there was another case of the Nunez-Diaz case they had autopsy slides they actually had specimen slides showing what actually happened to the medulla which is the back part of your brain down by your neck and all the what happened to that when the vaccines exposed, you know cytokine storms and all this stuff that happened. And that moved it up into the federal circuit because that was already in the process too so this is going to be very hopeful we were very hopeful that this case would move forward and actually correct a legal wrongdoing

1:04:47 And what happened was, is that the federal circuit looked at this and said wait a minute. If we reverse this decision in award compensation will parents not vaccinate? There is in the program there's way to prove causation there's what they call the Olfen standard and it's three principles. The third principle is timing did it happen within a certain time frame first one is about what they call plausible theory that shows can this actually happen. That's what it is, that's all it is." Well they took it and amended it and said you have to have a plausible theory that supported by consensus of the medical community. The medical community doesn't believe vaccines cause SIDS. Right, it's an impossible standard! That's correct now that's where we are with SIDS so their only way to prove

1:05:50 Is to do live testing and we do not in the united states do not test. I'm live children man that's what so frustrating about this is the people who wanna trust vaccine science i want a trust big pharma they hold these scientists and researchers on high as if they know everything about everything in can't possibly be wrong but that logic doesn't follow when it's like well then what causes said and what causes autism if you know everything and you know its not vaccines and you should be able to identify the cause of these other things, add that swear the logic kinda falls apart for me.

1:06:34 Right on man, it is about that time. This has been great obviously very concerning but highly educational and before we fully call it in give the people what they need to follow up on your work where to get your podcast the updated book any way to support you in this worthy cause all that good stuff The website for the podcast and you can subscribe wherever you subscribe for your favorite podcasts but its right on point dot online You can read a bio of our program and get a list of all the previous, there's like 32 or 33 previous podcasts out there. I've been doing it since November and from there you know if you care to donate to that effort you can donate to the non-profit that runs it. There's a donate button to that website my book is The Vaccine Court and there's a website for thevaccinecourt.com

1:07:27 This weekend it'll be down because I'm retrofitting it to support the Vaccine Corps 2.0 book sales if you want to buy a book from the website, I'll sign it and mail it to you otherwise you can buy in paperback form out on Amazon and I think Barnes & Noble and few others are going carry It won't be in the bookstores. I'm banned from the bookstores, just the way it is and SkyhorsePublishing.com will also carry a book you can buy there and then if you need to email me directly i have an email address for people that's Wayne Rohde at gmail dot com got any questions contact me there it's also up on the website so contact me

1:08:15 Email me directly right on well I have a ton of respect for the work you've done and kudos to Skyhorse for their bravery. I've had a good relationship with them for years now And I also have a lot of empathy for how this issue has hit your family firsthand Thanks for sharing this all with us and keep fighting the good fight take care out there Greg Thank you very much for this opportunity, and I appreciate your work in I've been a fan for awhile and listened to a few shows. Oh! And you connected with me, I said oh wow! I couldn't believe it but thank you very much Yes that's great to hear too kind man have a good one Take care sir

1:09:00 Wayne Rohde, ladies and gentlemen. No stranger to controversy but well-informed dedicated and making some very important points about vaccine court the payout process or lack thereof and the extremely difficult position these families are put in when you consider all of things they're dealing with at the same time And really so often people are quick to say oh the vaccine autism link is bunk But instead of arguing with them or telling them to go see Vaxxed, it's much more effective to say if it's Bonk then why have court cases been won and damages paid for exactly that? And when I discovered Wayne, It really was through diving deeper into the people who work with Del BigTree and The High Wire. Such amazing stuff they've been doing lately

1:09:53 And for those who don't know, Dell was seriously ill recently. He had to go in for an unexpected surgery Not exactly sure what it was but it was totally non-COVID, non vaccine related and he definitely needs his space to recover so I started looking at whose op ed's they promote? Of course Wayne is one of those few high quality sources that they do include and I'm happy it worked out You might have heard me mention recently on other shows that I'm just not super happy with some of our over the internet interview quality we've been getting lately. I think Skype is just not sufficient anymore, Zoom if you're just doing audio only is actually worse so I've been testing out a few different things. I didn't use Skype for this one. I used a new program that is actually made for doing what I do and it's supposed to be far and above better in quality

1:10:51 July really is going to be a month for testing and I'm sorry about that. I recorded Randall with a particular program, and I didn't really love it. Randall was as great as ever but i didn't think he sounded any better than if we had been using Skype And today I think Wayne actually did sound better And that's because I tested yet another program. And, I also tested a third program on the next interview and that one was a pretty epic fail...I'm sorry to say It put me and my two guests all on the same track and it was a nightmare to separate everything and reverse engineer it took hours and hours to get even halfway decent but that is a problem for another day

1:11:39 just kind of bracing you for that situation. But we will find the best program, a lot of these say they can make it sound like your recording in the same room with the person even remotely and long term this is going to be...a beautiful thing In terms of today's show though I definitely expected to get to the COVID side of the vaccine issue much earlier than one hour mark But if you didn't notice, I was a bit preoccupied with asking some important questions about childhood vaccines because in about 100 days... ...I will be a dad. People who have seen my social media post found that out a couple days ago so I guess the cat's out of the bag and I can say something on the air now!

1:12:25 Me and my wife in particular definitely like privacy and aren't going to be those people posting all kinds of pictures of our new baby online. We don't really care too much about social media, but randomly she found an announcement template and we figured we'd just put it up there for the old friends and family that we aren't gonna really call individually but would also probably like to hear the news know what's going on So when I recorded this, I didn't know that it would be the first show after my wife decided to rip the band-aid off that little secret but it worked out because now its all very on theme. And with such an announcement means of course im getting all kinds of unsolicited advice on vaccines from friends and family not listeners. Even though these people know me as conspiracy guy...I guess they just never thought it through what that really meant

1:13:22 Because they're acting quite surprised at our position, but it's important to me to have good information and good responses when these things come up. I'm super lucky that my wife and I agree on this stuff It would really suck to be butting heads on something with a pregnant wife when it's so important in the stakes are so high And I'm so thankful to have you guys, really. So many of you have written me and commented on the PLUS site and been very open about your experiences just because i've made a few passing comments that the only thing that gives me a little pause around the vaccine issue is that I don't really know examples of unvaccinated kids. I think I said that with Andy Wakefield

1:14:03 And it's true, I know like two parents who have had the balls to say no. One i don't think was really much of a conscious decision but just one of those backwoods kinds of things and so I know one set of parents who made a conscious decision and that's not exactly a sample size that gives me a lot of confidence but the kids are as healthy as can be! One is like eight years old and knows how to clean and de-feather a chicken pretty badass little guy actually But because of this network of listeners, I've heard from dozens of people who had the balls to go with nature and the reports have all been very positive. People talk about the robust health of their kids, there are kids being fast learners some have been pretty open about vaccine damage too comparing kids in the same family it's sad and it's hard to do that kind of thing but it's also super valuable information for people

1:15:03 who have that part of their life coming up and need to make a difficult decision. We know what we're going to do, it's not really difficult for us but I still have weird thoughts like... Okay for example one of my big questions would be about natural immunity. We know it's better stronger it lasts longer and a bout of one illness can create a broader immunity to similar-ish things. We also know that aspects of our immunity portfolio, let's say even get passed down from mother to child. So you look at me and my wife and we've been vaccinated to the fullest childhood schedule if we don't vaccinate our kids will they have a tougher time because they're not getting the same immunity portfolio passed on from their already compromised parents? And now their immune system will have to navigate all this with more difficulty because the process has already been tampered with

1:16:01 Does that make sense? I mean, I trust the natural process but i can't help what's already happened. It's not the kind of thing that changes our minds but it is a thought that I have and we try to think things through from every angle which is what's so weird about the archetype of the anti-vaxxer The reality is people who have vaccine hesitancy are the ones who have done the most research The ones who are most familiar with the track records and moral standings of these manufacturers With all the pressure that is put on these people, it's not a decision you come to lightly. It's not an anti-science position either because its a position based on the available data if you dig far enough to actually access it. Industry consensus isn't the same as scientific consensus. Many bright and highly educated people I could probably never get to come on this show are also vaccine hesitant

1:16:56 Which is why the Highwire is so great. The resources they present are so highly credentialed it's crazy that a person wouldn't take them seriously But kudos to Wayne for handling everything he has been through and pushing forward to be this advocate who wrote this super important book Not an easy thing to do anyway but now with an updated and expanded version out there Get it from him, and he'll sign it for you which is awesome to me In this era of digital, mass-produced everything I love that maybe 20% of the books I keep on my shelf are actually signed. People try to get autographs from actors they run into drunk in a Vegas elevator because they were good in a movie or two but Wayne and a lot of these authors are true heroes doing much more difficult work And those are the interactions and autographs that have value to me and I'm sure a lot of you guys would agree with that

1:19:31 Poor choice of words I think, right? But you know what I mean. And not a donation! Just a subscription to more content you already seem to like In today's show the free and plus split is pretty much exactly where the childhood vaccine information ends and the COVID shot talk begins We got into things like Covid vaccine injury reports and damages so far What sort of extreme reactions we might expect to see in cold and flu season, long-term effects of other vaccines and what to look for in terms of long term COVID vaccine damages. COVID civil liberty infringement concerns the state of the vaccine passport policies

1:20:17 And a very important curveball, unexpected probably was the parallels between vaccine safety EMF safety and gaming the science in both regards. Really important stuff So many vaccine injuries and adverse effects are going unreported with this COVID thing I've heard of people being asked to sign NDAs and given $5,000 bucks in hush money I've heard speculation that when Southwest canceled all those flights it was because they had all of their pilots vaccinated and those pilots were at a minimum sick for a week and couldn't do their job or, I've also heard maybe they had altitude exacerbated thrombosis issues. And I don't know these are just the rumors how could i know? But we DO know that industry media they're not being forthright about this stuff so we have to ask difficult questions We gotta wonder

1:21:12 Of course conspiratorial thinking is rampant online. We don't have any trust in government or industry, and for good reason! That is what's driving conspiratorial thinking... but they never talk about that They act like it some random unexplainable phenomenon that people are skeptical of anything that comes from the top down But you guys know this what am I telling you for? Thanks again to Wayne. Thanks again to you guys for sticking with me on this long and winding road, thanks to everyone who said kind things and congratulations on the baby announcement post made my wife feel very happy and fortunate as well And thanks all the plus people that helped me sleep through the night while I still can

1:21:56 I'm super fortunate and super aware of how fortunate i've been. Good luck to you guys out there, I'll see you next time! I've done my part... Your move data deniers vaccine suppliers and biased science liars your fucking move Have a drink in the smoke Listen to the cast We shine a shiny spotlight Put criminals on blast The pinstripe men of mourning and families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild the kids don't stand a chance. The kids don't, the kids don't stand, the kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand, the kids don't stand a chance

1:22:53 We're looking for the answers to questions never asked So we come to The Carlwood For the higher side chats The pinstripe men of mourning And families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild The kids don't stand a chance The kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance Involved in shady business We try to get a glance We're working on the numbers

1:23:59 Resistance must advance The pinstripe men of mourning And families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild The kids don't stand a chance The kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance