Walter Bosley | NYMZA, The Sonora Aero Club, & The Origins of the Breakaway Civilization

00:05 Puppet masters almost surely have clearly made me something heavy. And until you've thoroughly tested every last course, just to know the less you really do... That's true Dr. Seuss! Without THC could they lie and do us just a- Without THC the higher side checks show a wooden company

00:43 Alright, Hiresight Chatters. Today is going to be a game changer of a show because many of us fringe enthusiasts cut our teeth on legendary stories like the crashed saucer near Roswell or the implementation of Nazi occult scientists into The American Machine with Project Paperclip and in recent years it's become popular to talk about breakaway civilizations and move towards a terrestrial explanation for the strange craft seen in the sky often with one of the previously mentioned events, or a mix of both, cited as the genesis point for such a breakaway group. Well today's guest has really kicked it up a notch with his research into a group of Hermetic Prussian nationalists called Nimza and artists named Charles Delchow and a secret society of exotic craft makers in Southern California called The Sonora Era Club.

01:27 It's a deep and rich Pandora's box of conspiracy goodness that connects some dots and fills in many gaps, taking the popular idea of 20th century breakaway civilization and extending it back in the timeline to 19th century beginnings and beyond. His name is Walter Bosley and he has been here once before many moons ago on THC's 40th episode talking about his book Latitude 33 The Arcane Science & Hermetic Engineering Of The Happiest Place On Earth which is a fascinating look into real magic built into the Disney complex. And now he's back talking about his latest research that tracks the Breakaway Civilization back farther than most, a story that really unfolds over six of his books but has laid out most recently in his amazing $5 e-book Origin The 19th Century Emergence Of The 20th Century Breakaway Civilizations

02:14 Walter also made his living serving as a counterintelligence specialist with the FBI, a special agent in the Air Force and is a consultant in the private sector. And lucky for us over the years he's used his vast knowledge of military operations and covert missions to decode chapters in our past that the powers-that-be would rather us not know about It's a wild ride I can't wait to take! Walter my man welcome back to THC Thanks for having me back on Greg. It's good to be here to talk with you. Yeah, man real pleasure This is a huge story and to find a good starting point this saga suggests that certain people uncovered lost information about secret technologies that might have

02:54 come from an advanced civilization in the ancient past or information brought here from off-world. So I guess before we can get into its rediscovery in the 19th century, we have to establish that there was something to rediscover so how best can we do that? Well as a go into when the book and a couple of chapters because it almost takes that much to establish just what you said. You really have to go back and take a look at Legends of Atlantis or the stories from the Mahabharata of ancient wars with advanced technology all that David Hatcher Childress lost cities and.

03:32 mysterious technologies type stuff and you gotta sit through all that and really find the nuggets of. What it's all about him basically i just still at into the argument the idea that you know hey there might have been advanced civilization from another place that came here a long time ago for whatever reason some of them stayed they established you know new civilization or colony of their world here and they disappeared eventually but they left behind the traces of

04:11 this civilization's technology for others to find either in vaulted manuscripts or other ways of recording the knowledge, the know-how of how to pursue these technologies. Or maybe encoded in the stone remains of you know for instance the megalithic cultures and things like that but basically you just have to go back And like I said, distill it into the closest thing to a nugget of truth that you can accept. And then with that as the foundation... To me it seemed logical and I chose to go forward on the path that over time us earth-based humans is one way I phrase it

04:57 began to find these little traces, began to find these little gems of information of the lost period. The lost civilization and slowly but surely began to attempt to maybe emulate or reverse engineer in today's vernacular what this lost civilization had accomplished Right on. You are right, there are just tons of myths and legends that allude to beings from the sky. They might call them gods but what is the difference between a god and an ET? You can't really identify that when you're trying to look at Sanskrit or Sumerian texts it pretty much is the same definition. And as an example of the plethora of these examples talk to us about

05:42 Oh-ans? Oh-oh-onus. Oh-onus! That's the way I pronounce it, oh-ons. Right on he's a Babylonian God and i guess the possibility is that He could have been a teacher from Atlantis coming around to give knowledge to seemingly less advanced cultures tell us about that a little bit that's one of my favorite examples because it alludes to some other things too Well, the way I look at it. I kind of follow the interpretation that the so-called fish man God is actually a symbolic representation of a man from an off world civilization which possesses the technology

06:18 to have and use what we call scuba equipment essentially, you know of their own kind. So you see the man God depicted with the fish tail that was our ancient ancestors best way that they could describe a man who could walk right out on the ocean and interact in his human self and teach things reveal things or such set himself up as a god if he so desired and then go back into the sea and swim away. Well to our ancient ancestors unfamiliar with for instance scuba technology, if one of our Navy SEALs went back in time it did the same thing they would probably describe him as a fish man God you know I actually as I state in the book I kind have embraced this theory that

07:05 What there was, was a war between two off planet factions and that war ended up coming here at one point or least. one party in that war ended up here, perhaps the losing party. In fact that's what I propose as a scenario in the book is that the losing party ends up here and they attempt to establish their civilization here and they teach us humans that are here little by little bit-by-bit. They teach us these pieces of their civilization, their technology we are supposed to develop it over time and perhaps their goal in doing that was so that we would develop a civilization advanced and strong enough to take on their old foe. That's what I present in the book, as a possible explanation for why say hidden faction of this lost civilization would have a stake

08:05 planting these seeds of knowledge and maybe leading along a hermetic society or group of alchemists in learning this stuff throughout known human history. To me, there's logic in that and I think it is also kind of a down to earth explanation because That's the kind of thing we can understand. We can grasp, you know? The idea of the two factions and one licking its wounds so to speak here on Earth. Of course! I think that makes perfect sense and of course Beans from the Sky is

08:42 pretty much universal with ancient cultures and beans from the sea is also a popular motif and it seems like potentially a collective memory of sorts. This really is interesting because I also really like hearing about Alistair Crowley and H.P Lovecraft, and they have a bit of a tie-in to this subject as well don't they? Yes they do! The degree was surprising to me and it was really quite interesting to me as well because of the nature of it. In a nutshell, when I read what Peter LaVenda had pointed out in his research that Lovecraft and his creation of the story Call of Cthulhu and the whole origin of the Cthulu mythos if you look at the details in there they match actual details that Crowley had written about years before right down to the description of Cthulhu as this strange

09:38 Again, this fish god concept and this name that arose in Crowley's look at this was Tutulu. Literally pronounced just like that, Tu-tu-luu. And of course there is Lovecraft's Cthulhu. Very close! Now scholars have said well there is no evidence that Crowley and Lovecraft ever met And as I say in the book, too many times we have people assume that because two historical figures never met therefore they must not have heard of each other. Some people actually will conclude that and therefore they would not be familiar with each other's works which is really absurd on the face of it because I've never met

10:21 John Irving but i read his book how many of us have ever actually met the authors whose books and works were intimately familiar with right so but I have heard that you know well you can't show a connection between lovecraft and crowley so therefore one did not influence the other and in this ridiculous lavenda has pointed that out in great detail. So, you know I looked at that and saw where hey wait a minute that really fits in with the whole thing about Awanis and this lost civilization idea that I had mentioned a few moments ago

10:59 there's just something there. And so I analyzed it with another scholar, Sesha Rhee and he pointed out the whole thing about the idea of the nameless ones and how that ties in with Nimza this two syllabic nim-zah. Of course there we go just with that word alone were suddenly connected to this mysterious aero club and this airship mystery. These guys who use this mysterious technology, no one knows where they got it and here's this word connecting this ancient lost strange tradition in this airship mystery thing going on so the closer I looked

11:42 Interestingly, the more it made sense that there was some type of line of connection there. Right? Okay so based on descriptions in the Mahabharata ancient cave drawings that look like plasma discharges and descriptions of the gods we do get a good sense that there's something to know talk to us about the reconstruction what can be said about the tracking or uncovering of some of this stuff before we get up to the 19th century how far back can we go We can go as far back as we know that Hermetic tradition, you know, Hermetic organizations. The organizations that were conveying through their...we call them secret societies now. As far back as the histories of those go, that's how I believe we can trace the carrying out this knowledge because i think it was through these hermetic organizations through the centuries

12:37 that the guys in the 19th century came to know this information. Right on, and in the book I think you started or one of major nodes on that timeline would be Alexandria and then from there I guess you go to the Knights Templar, sure, to Freemasonry... right exactly! The Library of Alexandria as we've heard is documented throughout history was really place where a lot of this knowledge was gathered in one place, you know and this was what we call the so-called pre flood whatever that disaster was that our traditions have mythologized into the great flood. Whatever that disaster was that struck the earth The Library of Alexandria was said to have had all this knowledge, the wisdom, the technology and such prior to that cataclysmic event And then of course after the destruction of a library by religious maniacs

13:34 both Christian and Muslim that were responsible for destroying that library. this information is dispersed and ends up in various places. And yes, that's how the Knights Templar who we know operate very much like a hermetic secret society, that's how it gets into their hands primarily in the Fourth Crusade, a lot of it from Constantinople and then from there I think most of your listeners are probably familiar with The Templar and their tradition what they're involved with and there it is in Europe. They bring it to Europe and that's how your Prussian organizations, your Prussian alchemists, your Prussian hermeticists... That's how it gets into their hands because of the German faction of the Knights Templar excuse me I'm doing a complete brain-bombing. The Teutonic Knights thank you very much! Because the Teutonic Knight were among the beneficiaries

14:31 this information during the fourth crusade. And voila, there's your Prussian connection right there so whatever organization hermetic secret society whatever you want to call it alchemical tradition whatever between the Teutonic Knights and these guys in the 19th century and I point out by name in many cases who that could have been in the book There you go! There is your line and its the line that we're aware of who knows what were not aware Right, right. And of course broad strokes but Alexandria to the Knights Templar Freemasonry the Royal Society to the Angelic Society to these Prussian nationalists via the Teutonic Knights and Well remember remember from the Library of Alexandria a lot this information as I point out was in two or three other similar locations and so you do I do identify that step

15:24 between Alexandria and Constantinople that is the logical step. But yeah, you got it! That's the trail... There is no hole between Alexandria and Constantinople that's wide and gaping there is a connection in there but yeah. Right on So this is where fuel really gets thrown on the fire when this information reaches this Prussian group that the book and saga largely about tell us about The Nimza The Nimza, wow what do we know about the Nimza? Within the context of the airship mystery, Nimza first chronologically arises with this

16:09 mysterious Sonora Aero Club of Sonora, California. The gold country west of Yosemite and NIMSA is according to Charles Delshow the secretive German organization that oversees what the Sonora Aero Club is doing and not just the Sonora Aero Club. Delshow alludes to there being other groups but he does not identify them In his story and his writing says that he was sent by nimza on behalf of nimza to go visit the sonora aeroclub observe report their progress in ends up really liking these guys think they're pretty sharp especially the leader of them peter menace.

16:56 And, you know he gets involved with their activities. He never identifies what NMZA specifically means he always spells it out in all capital letters like an acronym. It's just always shown as an acronym and it's NYMZA Many people have, or a few people have tried to translate what that meant because in the 1890s 40 years later remember we have an airship mystery that was in all the newspapers and often gets talked about these days. In relation to our UFO phenomena. And NIMSA is mentioned during that period

17:41 Some researchers point to the NIMSA being involved with the part of the airship mystery in the 1890s that is connected to a man named John W. Keeley, who was doing stuff on probably on the same level of advancement as Tesla but coming about it from a different angle And so we have this NIMSA connected with the Sonora Aero Club that emerges with the writings of Charles Delchow, which are discovered in the late 60s by Pete Navarro. But then we have the NIMSA connected with what is chronologically 40 years after the Sonora Aero Club connected with these New York money men and Keighley who was also in New York and such.

18:32 people had a tendency to want to interpret NMSA, NYMZA as New York something or other. One of the best was the New York Motor Zephyr Association for lack of a better thing and it made logical sense when you just looked at NMSA within the New York context what I did however was said myself that Really, Delschau is the guy who connects NIMSA to the group in the 1850s and they were a German group with a few Italian immigrants but they were this group of German immigrants in California doing this. And Delschau said NIMSA was headquartered in Germany

19:15 So, I thought if we're going to interpret this or hope to identify it. We're gonna have to look at it in German terms not limited to New York and why in my opinion might mean something else so I kind of reverse engineered the acronym looking at various German words and I did come up with a translation, a proposed translation which I couldn't repeat it to you right now if you paid me but It's all in the book, in the German how and why I translated it the way that I did. The fact that I did consult people who were more expert with the German language and they in turn consulted native German speakers. And you know, I've only had a couple of people say well I wouldn't interpret it that way most people and I mean people familiar with German and the native speakers have agreed with my interpretation that I didn't get

20:09 crazy with the language it makes sense to them. And basically what we end up with is NIMSA in the 19th century into the 20th century context was a Prussian nationalist group, not an official German group you have to remember in the 1850s the Germany we know today was still trying to form what it was back then, a bunch of states trying to come together with a German identity and this German nationalism national identity was being led by the Prussian element. And so this NIMSA in my opinion was a Prussian nationalist organization So therefore it was private It wasn't a government entity

20:57 mainly because the government they had at the time would not have been able to do something like this. It was a private organization, like a government contractor today that had at its disposal bankers people with money and industrialists and of course the men that would've had knowledge. I identify several them from period in going through the rest of 19th century into 20th all the way up showing the logical progression connecting them to the Nazis of World War II fame. And again, like I say in the book what i'm trying to do is pick the best possible candidates that the best possible suspects if this NIMS organization that Del Schell says existed really did exist and if the logic that I followed

21:51 is how and why they existed. What I did was, I looked at the men at the time who would have been the most likely suspects okay? And then what's interesting is those guys led up into the late 19th century early 20th century they led to the Nazis okay? Right! We know that the Nazis were doing some pretty spooky stuff technology wise. We suspect that they were inspired in some cases by maybe lost ancient knowledge that they had uncovered, but the biggest shocker was a connection of this 1850 Sonora Aero Club technology to the Nazi bell. That was a doozy.

22:34 And I do want to get into that, but I wanted to throw out a quote from your book where you say it is in the 18th century that we find our most direct influences on the Prussian circles that were likely to have inspired the men who would pursue airship technology in the following century. The humanist age of enlightenment was a period of much alchemy and mysticism in the kingdom of Prussia And I love that and it seems like, you know what Dr. Farrell would call the hidden side of physics a lot of people were messing with this stuff at the time Tesla and Peter Manisky also but You know It makes me wonder what happened because of course The Vatican had a serious campaign to ban magic and mysticism and kill off people using it But even years later we hear that Isaac Newton had a huge alchemy library How did this movement of philosopher scientists as you say?

23:24 get so overrun by material scientists. Well, quite frankly they got outnumbered. This is what happened you know we can jump over to the Burton book in that particular instance because I talk about that in the Burton book how they just simply got out numbered by the bean counters. The guys were just all about it's gotta be pure 100% materialist count those beans we don't want to hear any philosophy and in 1830 I believe it was when these guys, the bean counters and materialists finally just outnumbered the other guys they just took a vote and essentially took over the Royal Society. This is what i'm referring to with the bean counters as the Royal Society because that's the context of the Burton book And thats' an example of what happened across-the board

24:17 murky world of science and technology and philosopher-scientist hermeticists in the 19th century. It was just simply numbers Darwinism and atheism became much more popular. And there you go, it was very easy to embrace the material side of things and think about it is logical you know there are trying to understand things scientifically You want to be able to recreate your results in a lab right? That's what the process is all about do those experiments recreate those results you know we can say this is so if you do this this will happen and that's how yeah our understanding of the world around us through science that's how it advanced greatly and we have all these great stuff I mean it makes sense its logical however, I think it is also a case of maybe throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Of course! When the materialist took over in their enthusiasm

25:18 They were kind of like the snarky trolls of their day. When they took over, you know they just cast it all out when maybe if they should have kept those little nuggets and gemstones that the philosopher scientists there her medicine's indeed possessed because I think you know you mentioned before the hidden physics i think the guys driving the hidden physics that we suspect and we see a little glimmers of evidence of I think that they did not throw the baby up with the bathwater I think they they kept the whole gem stones in Pursued a different way right now with you there So let's talk about how these airships would fly like you mentioned its connection to the Nazi Bell technology because people look at these images of Dellshawe they hear the 1897 Airship mystery and they think okay somebody had hot-air balloons or something. That's absolutely not the case Talked to us about the soup Peter Maness and how these things worked

26:18 Well, here's the interesting thing. Again we still don't know exactly what we have are the descriptions that are left to us in the works of Del Schau and in the witness reports and the airship mystery you know I'd like to throw out there too that I've heard scholars alleged scholars just completely of the UFO phenomenon in history, these scholars will only go back as far as World War II. In some cases only as far back 1947 with Kenneth Arnold which is hilarious that they stopped there and if they go back farther They don't really dig into the airship mystery and I've heard them, you know they do it often. They just dismiss the airship mystery and they repeat something that's not exactly true. They repeat this idea that all these airship sighting stories in the papers were all an April Fool's joke well

27:11 These things were reported for months, not just in April. You know of the given years 1896 to 1897 and so forth these things were seen by hundreds of people thousands of people over cities and such And when you take an honest look at it you find that these guys who are dismissing this is just a big April Fool's joke or these newspaper men made this all up All the newspaper man across the US made this all up because wow it just suddenly you know allegedly made the millionaires because it sold so many copies no that wasn't the case and an honest researcher on a scholar will find that the dismissal is based on really just kind of a lazy falsehood when you look closely at this UC that the technology described in depicted by del show in his drawings is

28:03 curiously just like what people were witnessing in the 1890s, only of course in the 1890's it was more advanced. But it involved rotation, these objects that spin and rotate. And it did involve this stuff called soup which Dalschau spelled S-U-P-E because remember he's from Germany himself and he was struggling with English there for a while but he called it soup and it was this green liquid that only Peter Menace knew the exact ingredients of. With this soup, the small amount of this soup in this vaguely described motor Peter Menace and other guys who successfully flew their Aero's that spelled a-e-r-o who successfully flew these things essentially achieved a form of anti gravity which

29:02 could also provide propulsion. What's really interesting is in the 1890s, there was one particular witness that brought aboard one of these airships and he sees spinning apparatus activated by a gentle tapping of these flanges of metal, fingers a metal that just kinda stick out from whatever the propulsion device is and the pilot just kind gently taps it so there you have a vibration which then starts getting everything rotating and this spin with the vibration in the spin it activates this anti-gravity effect. Now you've got the spin You go back to Menace, you've got the soup, the liquid

29:53 Now jump ahead to the World War II era with this Legend of the Bell, which Igor Wachowski and Joseph Farrell have written about. And what do you have? You have this object that's two parts that rotate—they counter-rotate but they spin one set inside the other and what's pumped between them is this serum secretive serum recipe. So that sounds like Peter Menes, you've got the rotating object and you've got the strange liquid but here's the real kicker to this in a couple of Delshall's drawings one of the central pieces of the apparatus that make these arrows fly

30:34 is a rotating spinning object that is shaped like a bell. And this was drawn years before we're told the Nazis started messing with the bell, and it's depicting something that he said was used in the 1850s well that right there led me to follow the thread which I lay out on the book in detail showing how this technology used by these German guys in California secretly led to the same kind of technological idea in the 1890s airships but more advanced and then how that would have led to what the Nazis were doing. And what's the thread we have through all of this? We got the German guys in the beginning who were doing this, and then you got the German Nazis. I explain in the book

31:32 about the American group that stood up during the Civil War era, the post-Civil War era. And how it connects into all of this but how still the Germans were in there because you had mention of NIMSA connected with the airship mystery and that goes into how I point out and why I point out that I think there were two factions doing this at that time but the point is you do and in the book demonstrates the German thread that runs through all this so you see there is a logic behind where the Nazis might have got this information to begin with start messing with something like the bell.

32:13 Yeah, I love it. It's such an interesting saga and like I mentioned in the intro it extends the timeline we hear about this one pocket of time with the World War II era but it doesn't go prior to that it doesn't go back into history further and I think you're nailing on some really interesting stuff talk to us about telluric currents in the earth this is also part of the technology right? Yes, I think personally that if you map out where the sightings were reported in the 1890s mystery and when you look at where the Sonora Arrow Club was active those of you who have heard me before and are familiar with my work know that i have presented information regarding the idea that there are Telluric current ley lines to popularly phrase it

33:00 technically a ley line is something else but you know it has become to mean these energy lines through the earth connected to the world grid. Essentially these are what power of the world grid that Tesla talked about and worked with, and in my opinion when you map out the airship sightings and activities at the Aero Club you find that they correlate to where these telluric currents have been identified or proposed to exist by scholars other than me. I do have a map created for me, sent to me in 2009-2010 the date is on the tube when i received it in the mail that predates my writing of this stuff and so I referred to the map and there it is! The sightings of these airships reported in 1890's... There they are just you can see almost like where they would've followed

33:57 these currents like a track almost. And I argue, I propose in the book that these airships connect themselves to the world grid That's kind of part of how they work and what they follow. And when you're familiar with what Tesla wanted to do with ships at sea and aerial platforms, he also was going to power them with the world grid so it's certainly not an original idea with me I was able to just show where hey what tesla said looks like maybe somebody was already doing Yeah, man. And you know we can also throw UFOs in here with this Nazi bell and airship stuff because we're talking about anti-gravity We're talking about rotation which is textbook flying saucer stuff right? And also there are people who have written books about the fact that flying saucers if you map all the sightings they exist along A couple of certain parallels they've acknowledged that there might be a connection to The Earth grid so I think he might be onto something

34:58 You know, I think so. We'll see. I always like to say that I could be completely wrong about all this. This is not an area where we get a lot of definitive answers. That's true. Right you kind of have to decide for yourself when you look at the evidence that is out there Right. And you know, you mentioned a little bit about the vibration, the tapping of the technology and sound and vibration technologies are something we've heard about before. You know that's the implication at Coral Castle have they come up in any other area of your research in uncovering the types of technologies and sciences that these secret groups were looking at?

35:35 Well, here's the interesting thing. This whole thing with sound and vibration was very deeply a part of the work of John W Keely who I mentioned before and how Keely got tied into this whole airship mystery was due to his very controversial, he was called a fraud in his own lifetime You know, it was very controversial but he was the darling of the New York spiritualist and what we would call new age set of the time which happened to also be part of the high society, the wealthy. The people that were supposedly the financiers of some of these airships and such which is where they got the idea that it was a New York based group because there were New York investors according to the Airship Ministry in Delshao and such

36:25 So there you have it. You've got a guy who was essentially the Tesla of sound and vibration type technology of his day, and those two guys I don't think they ever met that they were both up for... They were competing against each other at one point in the late 1800s for money from I think it was Astor Who? You know I go into that in the book of course And you also have then later in the 20th century, you have Victor Schauberger who he got into the whole thing with rotation and the flow of water and such. Basically what are we talking about here? Between Tesla, Keeley and Schauberger, you've got these guys who were taking their discovered knowledge of little known or maybe little noticed natural forces and doing things with them that people

37:19 Hadn't done before that's what so interesting to me about the notion that this is lost technology or lost information because we think of our Technology and things like iPhones and satellites, and they're very mechanical you know obviously They're very man-made And we think of all the things that you need to get to before you get to something like an iPhone Or a satellite right then you try to extrapolate that in the ancient world it doesn't really really work because we don't have a bunch of trash heaps everywhere, you know sitting outside of Gobekli Tepe or something. But these more natural technologies that seem to be just as powerful if not more and embedded in the earth are in our environment I mean this might get into something like ether theory and alchemy but this stuff is really where the money's at for me because

38:08 It just makes so much more sense that any civilization or culture could pick it up and develop it. Right So right on. On the subject of the relevancy of this arrow club being in Southern California, you tie it into the California gold rush in 1849 because these guys messing with this stuff are into esoteric arts and alchemy and you note that when you say we've all heard of alchemists making gold but might they not also possess knowledge of where and how nature processes gold? and that is a pretty big eye-opener man. Talk to us about that piece and how this might be relevant, that the gold rush took place in the same area where these guys are messing with this kind of stuff? We'll see... And isn't that interesting right there just what you said I'll tell ya, but most I know about it comes from a guy who i mentioned before Sesh Hari who wrote a book titled The Handprint Of Atlas now Mr Hari has kinda withdrawn from public life any asked me to

39:08 Take all his books off the market i publish them to my company and so is books are no longer available but somebody out there might have a copy printed copy of hand print about listen in that book. He describes how, yes the powers that be so to speak through these kinds of things I'm talking about how airship mystery clubs form. You know you get guys with knowledge right? And these guys with knowledge find their way into government positions you know leadership positions in organizations that have the means to pursue things like gold mining and such but somewhere along the way

39:46 these guys had figured out how to read the terrain of the earth and how to read, you know they probably did a little reverse engineering where gold had been found prior. And they figured out that they could identify by particular geophysical feature which Mr. Hari identifies as a Hodge in his book and they would identify these Hodges which are like little round mountains with Not sharp pointy tops, but Round Mountains. And it was at somewhere around the base of the Hodge is where you would find this black soil or sand, and that was their clue. Now Mr. Harre describes this much better than I do in his book The Handprint of Atlas and he also suggests in that book that the Gold Rush of California 1849 was a staged event because the United States wanted California

40:48 And so one of the best ways to get the state would be to have a bunch of Americans just flood the population. This should sound familiar because this gets talked about today, how that is one way to take over an area—just flood it with your folks and then you can stake a claim on how many people we got there. that Sachery claims the US used and so therefore they knew that the gold was there at Sutters Mill or whatever the place is. He says they knew the gold was there and they were just waiting for the moment, and they chose their moment to do this stage, this Eureka event, and then everybody rushed in there of course when you look at the gold rush, the people who made money

41:36 were the people who supplied the dry goods and the clothes and tools, set up the towns that had the saloons. The guys going to look for gold? Very few of them actually found any! So it was building an instant population and standing-up instant industry and then that resulted in instant towns right? And then of course subsequently things went they way they wanted it too so This idea that they could read the terrain and know where the earth produced gold.

42:12 That suggests what other kind of things did they know? And, of course when you look at the history of telegraphy and when you know the facts about telegraphy and the railroads. You see that well one of the other things I knew was this tolerant current stuff because tolerant current is a reality and the telegraphers, you know The guys who did the little telegraph that it did it with the Morse code which the railroad stood up They strung this they set this up along the lines of this to learn current which they knew was there and if you follow railroad lines in railroad tracks the railroad line also followed this card when hand-in-hand so. This is all going on in the middle nineteen century and it's out there in a certain million engineers and its kinda like an open secret there is just these guys who

43:01 They understood the principles of things that maybe the general public didn't know. And they used it to their advantage. Yeah, it's fascinating there always seems to be a conspiratorial subtext to events than we remember in the past but The Gold Rush is nothing I've ever heard brought up. I never heard anyone try to read between the lines with us so that's really interesting and now We also did a recent show where I had a guest talk about evidence that points to the Amazon being a product of advanced permaculture practices put in place by ancient humans. And it actually made me wonder if something similar couldn't have happened in areas of high gold production? Could an area of the earth be engineered to produce a lot of gold, or is this something they could have known how to tweak their environment to get gold out of it?"

43:51 Well, that's a very interesting suggestion and I would lean towards saying yeah. You know, I think there is something to that. A cumulative result of my research and stuff is I'm in the camp of the possibility that the earth has been machined or as some way some big bio-machine And sure you know my personal view and the environmentalist just love me as much as the e.t. hypothesis ufo people but my view is that human beings were essentially nomadic and we go from world to world,

44:30 And, you know we use the resources that are there and when that world's used up time to go to another one. I do not buy that the earth is this sentient being with its own personality and awareness of itself and blah blah blah it has living things on it and if it has this ecosystem but is essentially now we're not supposed to crap on it were not supposed to treat like rap of course not it's our home but we are in my opinion they were supposed to you know use it and survive on it build our civilizations and then when we're using at all up its I said time to move onto the next one yeah I think if there was a civilization that was

45:20 way more advanced than anything we've had or aware of that we've had. It's very possible that they might have a technology where they could, you know, have come here and known how to engineer certain things again I refer to Cesaris handprint of Atlas he kinda goes into this very thing where he thinks this off-world civilization did kind if you remember the Star Trek movies in the Genesis machine he thinks they did kinda genesis number where you had this globe whatever condition the earth was in, whatever stage it was in. And this off-planet civilization injected this massive device and he says that the impact point is what is now Lake Victoria in Africa He argues that's what the Royal Geographical Society was really after That's what Burton was really looking for They were really looking for evidence of

46:14 point of impact to this object that then re-engineered the ecosystems of the Earth, to suit the offworld civilization's desires. That is his theory and he points it out in this book in detail but yet follows along the lines what we're talking about here and its intriguing I mean that is a great story i another little side story like that i picked up from your book as it relates to ancient technology, is from when napoleon went into the great pyramid alone and you say that according to the lord napoleon emerged from the great pyramid in a somewhat unnerved state when allegedly asked what happened inside the chamber napoleon has claimed to have replied whats the use you'd never believe me.

46:59 I love that man, provocative. Can you elaborate at all or speculate on what he might have experienced? Well, here's the thing. Also unfortunately what happened was the source of that story then apparently later denied it so you kind of have to take it for what its worth Was the guy telling the truth and then someone told him hey cut that crap out we don't want to talk about that and so later he came back in tonight You've got to decide that for yourself but I would say you know you hear these things about What The Pyramid might have been In my opinion I agree with it certainly was not a tomb they never found anything inside there

47:35 that ever even indicated, much less proved that it was a tomb. But its easier for people to believe what so we'll let them keep on believing and feel all superior but its possible that if it was some type of machine maybe a psychotronic device like I say Disneyland was at one time. It's possible that when he laid down in that chamber it activated something or whatever residual effect one could experience from what remained of the structure perhaps sent him on a little brief mental trip there and so I would say if anything you know you're talking some type of psychotronic effect

48:21 And that would be my best explanation for what it would have been, unless there was some apparatus in there that they found intact that they removed. That is hidden from history Yeah, that is a possibility. But I think that seeing how the Egyptian culture seemed to value the spiritual plane and knowing what I know about entheogens...I think there's a good chance that might have been some type of psychedelic machine that could get you there maybe without the drugs or maybe they loaded up and then got into it or something but Well, you know, I'll say about that what I like to say about a lot of things I write

49:01 I let the listener or the reader decide for themselves. Fair point, that's why I like to do that here too so if we get back to these breakaway groups because there are more than one and you know, what makes them tick is often funding. Usually that is a point of studying." Can you tell us any more about the backers of this underground group or groups? Well you have for those interested I go into detail and identify German bankers specifically who I think would have been these mysterious financers and the New York bankers as well. As matter fact in Origin I list out both of them

49:40 the most likely suspects because these were the banks that existed in those days. When the sources like Del Schow and the newspaper reports 1890s refer to financiers and bankers, what I did was I said okay who are the bankers of the day? So i went back and looked through the history of it and identify here you go! I was able to trace a line between the early to mid 19th century industrialists and bankers, and Hermeticus leading to the 1890s era counterparts of these guys. In some cases you know course there's overlap some these guys were still around just like the guys during the 1890s mystery where some are more still around in the early days of Nazi Germany And I show the line there

50:31 between the guys that would have been financiers, bankers and industrialists German or New York during the 1890s mystery. The ones that would have been connected to the foundation of Nazi Germany and their pursuit of this stuff in its it's very intriguing when you look at this whole mystery from that perspective. It's all well and good to talk about, ooh we saw this machine and it flew and wow what a mystery! Yeah these things were built by New York bankers in Richmond. Except in the case of Astor or Rockefeller whatever most scholars had never taken a close look at who these money men were

51:17 And the interesting thing i found was the closer you look at who these money men were in these industrialist you find that they work connected to say nazi germany or. The german war machine of world war one and it just kind of begins to make even more sense that these are the guys who would have been behind pursuing something like this mysterious and secret, airship technology. something like Project Paperclip seem a lot more natural when you just think about the infiltration. And what's also interesting is you do mention Brown Brothers Harriman in this and that struck a chord with me because Prescott Bush worked for them, and you write a lot about German organizations getting that foothold long before Project Paperclip but I wonder if Bush might have known anything about this stuff? You touched on a big one there... This started

52:24 This foothold really got its first deep impression with Kuhn Loeb, the German banking organization that was here in America who at one time they were the guys behind a lot of the railroads. You had all these different railroads throughout the country and competing with each other but Kuhn Loeb they were the bankers that had their fingers in all those railroad pies and at one time they owned 65% of the physical railroad in the United States. So think about that, you know? You have these German-born bankers who had connections to Germany despite being an American institution

53:10 pretty much financially controlled the railroads, which meant telegraphy. Which also tied in with the knowledge of the Teluric Current so therefore what did they know about? I identify them as being involved with the airship Nimza but Kuhn Loeb were the backers of E.H Harriman when he purchased the Union Pacific Railroad for what was then considered a ridiculous overpayment, but he wanted it and Kuhn Loeb backed him up. Well E.H. Harriman is the subsequent Brown brothers' Harriman. That's where the Harriman name comes from in Avril and Bunny or Avril might be Bunny but the Harriman brothers who Prescott Bush was friends with were the sons of E. H. Harriman

54:00 you know, that are connected to Kuhn Loeb. And I spell all this out in the book and it shows again the thread between the mid-19th century stuff that was going on with all this in the background and leading right up into the World War II era with the Germans because we know that Prescott Bush got in trouble during World War II he was believe indicted for providing banking services to Nazi Germany, to the official Nazi administration as it were. And what's interesting is his own son is a US Navy fighter pilot fighting this war and there he is connected. It's very intriguing and kind of half pisses you off but a lot of people are more than half pissed off when it comes to the shenanigans and mysteries of the Bush family history right? Right no doubt

54:56 Wow. Well, on that note... This has been awesome man! That just about does it for my question thanks for laying out this amazing saga The Secret of the NIMSA would you like to remind the people of the work you got out there and where to get some of this sweet Bosley action? You can get it all on Kindle at Amazon.com and if you prefer printed books you can go to LuluLULU.com I also have a blog empire of the wheel dot blog spot com when i'm busy working on stuff. I don't update it frequently but there's some really good essays and stuff there along with some links and remember even if you don't have a kindle device amazon gives the kindle app away for free so that you can download onto any device, so that you too can read kindle books

55:48 That's about where you can find me very cool, and you did allude to this earlier But are there plans to take this story further in more books which? Particular I guess. I would say the nymza story or the breakaway civilization story Oh well You know as it comes up in the in research. I do it will but I never Decide ahead of time okay. I'm gonna like do this series of books and there's gonna be 10 of them, and then I find things to fill those ten. I don't do that. Honestly the books I do are you know if a little thread or something pops up in research for another book all set it aside then i'll go back to it and if I get enough what I consider to be evidence to justify the book I'll do the book but I've never do a book just have a book which is why its been

56:39 Six you know almost nine months since I came out with it. I had two others that I'd started And I just wasn't finding enough to justify it and I won't do that I will do a book just to crank out of book and have a book respectable Yeah, I try to have it be something that intrigued me enough that I feel there was enough there to justify this book now the reader has to decide for themselves whether that's true or not. Oh yeah man, I think you do great stuff from Disney to Del Show! I'm into all of it thank you You really have opened up a big part of history i think so thanks again and take care yourself out there Thank you for having me on.

57:16 Sweet son of Zorn people, there we have it. A magnifying glass on some chapters of the story few have seen I actually loved it! I think if we reject the desire for a single narrative you can easily accept a lot of this without moving The Alien piece or The Multi-Dimensional Entity piece at all And if you liked the show with Shaman Janir a few weeks ago This is just a deeper look at some of that And it's the connections to alchemy or material derived from the ether that really gets me pumped up about the Sonora Aero Club. That's what I find exciting, but when you pair this with say the James Corbett episode where we talk largely about the advanced transportation systems and alternative fuel that were in full swing before they were suppressed and you throw in Tesla Wilhelm Reich and Thomas Townshend Brown who are all doing wild stuff in the early 1900s The history of technological process gets kind of weird doesn't it?

58:08 Another aspect I like about power or technology derived from alchemy, or counter rotation devices, or manipulating ley lines as opposed to our mechanical digital technology is that secret societies or rogue discoverers can do some really wild things. And at many different points in history, things the mainstream think would be impossible even today happened and we're talking about anti-gravity healing devices free energy devices weather manipulation with devices that aren't that hard to build it's a lot but its because of the simplicity of these things you have to wonder how far back it really goes

58:50 And how about this idea of manipulating the earth into a gold factory? We see these ancient cities plated in gold from top to bottom and yeah, maybe the resource was just more abundant then or maybe they were more advanced than we're told. Maybe they had more involvement in that process than just oh here's something shiny let's make a statue I think we should give them a bit more credit than that But this saga also speaks to this Prussian-German power center And how it was getting its hooks into America even before Operation Paperclip way before we're talking Civil War stuff It was this earlier foundation that made the transition for Operation Paperclip so easy. And I know this is a weird place for conspiracy thinkers, because we want to singular narrative about who's at the top of the pyramid and the overwhelming majority will say Jews are in control through centuries of banking and usury and now they control the media and between the two money and media... That's a lot of power!

59:45 There's also the argument that Jews have been kicked out of a lot of places well before World War II. Some would say this is proof of their centuries-old persecution and racism, but I have a hard time thinking they were kicked out of these places for no reason other than racism. It seems more likely to me that elements of the Jewish elite—not the average Jewish people who of course suffered the effects of such a ban—but the Jewish power center It feels like to me elements of that Jewish power center were probably so efficient at rising to power in these places, that it freaked out the rest of the government. So they said, all you got to go get the fuck out of here! I'm not saying it's right? I'm just saying I think that might have been what's behind it objectively and of course You have a lot of stuff there with the Rothschild family too-you can say that they're not real Jewish people or posers...You can have that argument and that's kind of its own thing

1:00:43 So I think there is something there that a lot of researchers are onto, but we cannot ignore this German and Prussian elite and their influence. You got some shows in the conspiracy space that say it's all Jews and Germans and Nazis were wrongfully demonized I think that's going way too far. Let's examine a couple of things Henry Ford and Rockefeller were two of the big names among the early American industrialists, and Rockefeller was German. Henry Ford's dad was Irish so that doesn't really help us out but Henry Ford wrote a book called The International Jews that goes over how bad they are

1:01:21 They like to get their hooks in everything and take over a place. So Henry Ford, the guy who works with Rockefeller to install an assembly line lifestyle in America and ushers in forced schooling aimed at testing loyalty to its management class rather than testing intelligence plus the suppression of public transportation systems and forcing an oil-only fuel policy. I mean, this seems like some of the biggest changes that were made and problems that this country has, and Henry Ford is involved in it, and he wants you to worry about what the Jews are doing." So I think we should just say that it's not all black and white. The Bush family, we did that show with Russ Baker taking their family back to Civil War corruption also a German family and they churned out two presidents one who stole the election in Usherden 9-11 but don't look at the Germans! You can say they are Zionists too so maybe this German Jew false dichotomy is as ridiculous as Democrats and Republicans? I think it's more rich versus poor.

1:02:22 We're getting into some shit here. I mean, MKUltra, Operation Paperclip, the Rocketry Program and NASA, the chemical-based pharmaceutical industry, the education system – these are institutions of control that are largely German in nature or German corporations so i think we have to consider multiple power centers in more of a Game Of Thrones scenario I don't know, i think it's more valuable to point the finger at individuals rather than groups anyway and at the capstone level. I think they probably just see the masses as the enemy regardless of if they share blood with them or not but i did want to lay some of that out there because there will be comments oh so it's all germans sure ignore the jews well looks like THC is compromised

1:03:06 And look, we do shows where we talk about that with guests who research that story and we have guests who focus on several other groups. Today we focused on a Prussian hermetic society and its influence in its advanced technology behind the veil I mean there's nothing necessarily nefarious about flying some exotic crafts but it is more than just that of course So I don't know. I don't think these are contradictory threads, so I have enough room in my head for both and probably more. And I've taken a couple shots at flat earthers lately and some of the listeners that adopted that paradigm have taken offense. The reason I poke fun at them is because in the six or so years I've been doing this show there's never been a more closed-minded group – that is my problem because THC to me

1:03:49 It's about having a drink and smoke and talking about some taboo and fringe ideas, like a stoner's digital speakeasy. And we try on many hats – some fit better than others – next week we will look at something else or take a different angle. The flat earth community as a whole seems like they've made up their mind, know all the answers, are closed off to any other discussion… I just reject that. It is like the material science thing. There have to be other discussions, and when I hear, nope this guy is talking about Mars. Mars isn't real! I just want to lose my mind. When people are so sure about basically unknowable things...I just go nuts You can think NASA photographs are all CGI you can think the rover missions were faked in the desert

1:04:36 and that the light in the sky we call Mars is just something other than a planet, but to adopt that as your new religion and shut down any discussion that suggests there's a red planet out there is so close-minded you're no better than someone in mainstream who rolls their eyes at all of our other topics. Where is this open minded attitude? This really isn't some race to conclusion finish line! It's an ever-expanding cloud of ideas and over time forms will take shape, others will fade away. We'll get pictures that are more accurate as they go and might change radically year after year – at least that is how I look at it…and want it to be looked at!

1:05:16 But things do take on a life of their own. So that was a lot of rambling about somewhat unrelated things, but if you like the first half of this show we go deeper in the members-only second hour as well. We get into the story that Tesla built a ship that could get to Mars before 1910 and how the new context of the Sonora Aero Club and the NIMSA adds fuel to that fire? I mean these people who think we have a jump room to Mars now... Who went there to install the landing pad?! Maybe this is what we're talking about. But we also get into Walter's Sir Richard Francis Burton book and expeditions to South America, and lots of gold-and airship sightings at that time that coordinate with Prussian exploration... all sorts of stuff! And you know the drill. Sign up for PLUS, it's five bucks a month, you get five shows, keeps my dream alive, and you can treat yourself to a deeper level of these THC interviews

1:06:13 That's it for me. You're all God special snowflakes, I'll see you next week Your move esoteric alchemists, benefactors of the Sonora Sorcerer Society and secret keepers of Nimza... your fucking move The pinstripe men of mourning And families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild The kids don't stand a chance. I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand, the kids don't stand a chance

1:07:07 We're looking for the answer to questions never asked So we come to The Cartwood for the higher side chats The pinstripe men of mourning And families of finance DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild The kids don't stand a chance. I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand, the kids don't stand a chance

1:07:52 Involved in shady business We try to get a glance We're working on the number Resistance must advance The pinstripe men of morning and families of finance. DuPont, Windsor and Rothschild the kids don't stand a chance

1:08:29 The kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance I said the kids don't, the kids don't stand. The kids don't stand a chance