THC 91: Michael Cremo | Alternative History, Ancient Technology, & Forbidden Archaeology

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats How's it going Hireside Chatters? Drinking little drinks, smoking a little smoke. From San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and today we're gonna be looking into the possibility that man has existed for longer than the official story would have us believe We're gonna be talking with the papa bear of alternative antiquity in just a couple minutes but with me in the co-pilot chair here to warm the engines and grease the wheels for the first time in a long time Jack of many trades master of the psychedelic serenade Adam Gouraily how are you man

00:59 Hey, real good. Glad to be back man you got a lot of energy on this stuff getting my coffee groove on here It's fake it's that bulletproof coffee I've been drinking a concoction of that and its actually seems like its making a difference Bullet proof coffee? Yeah listen to the last show I did he is the guy who created it Oh cool You know it's a little health thing I know you have gone into couple those kicks Yeah, yeah indeed. I just got done juicing oh no my thing yeah see I bought a juicer I bought a nice-ass juicer and It just gets so dirty Oh man You're lazy. I am that's true. That's you just gotta do it. It's like a ritual mm-hmm you do it and you know go through whatever clean it and

01:50 It doesn't take that much time. Right, I'm hoping once i get out of the nine-to-five life I'll be able to dedicate more time to those kind of activities because I drag myself out of bed at the last possible minute jump in the car and go to work and so I don't really want to have time for shit like that. Got you understood yeah but I definitely noticed a difference from juicing all the time What kinda stuff do you juice? Because when I did it everything kinda tasted the same I'm sure that your listening audience is fascinated by this. No, it's always different man! We get a box we belong to one of those community supported agriculture things so yeah we started getting one of these and it's like man what do you do with some of this stuff? You know just...I don't want to waste it so typically like today had all kinds of stuff had

02:48 carrots and apple and grape but also stuff like a turnip, celery. I put a little ginger in there. Oh now that's exotic! Some chard it's whatever is there you just got it when you're doing it like if I'm just making for myself I go pretty hardcore but if I do it for my wife all make it sweeter put in more apples so its not as radical. And so this one was pretty interesting, it also had a lemon and tangerine in there so you know it's got a bite to it but if you do it all the time you definitely can tell the effects I'm very pro-juicing. Part of the movement that's The Awakening! A lot of people seem to be taking diet into account which makes a lot of sense So you've got this

03:39 Historia Discordia website. Tell us about that a little bit, man. It looks like it's filling up there's a lot of content on there now more than there was last time we talked Yeah and it'll keep adding more stuff I've been working behind the scenes see you know There's this huge archive that got passed on to me and so And coming out of that are these different book projects ones The History of Discordianism That should be out In a couple months it's looking at like Historia Discordia, and that's what the website is named as well. But you know there are also materials on Kerry Thornley and the Garrison investigation so that's the second book that will probably be out mid to late year. Farrell House is going to publish that. And a couple more book projects...probably several. There are different materials I think that can

04:33 would lend themselves to be putting out strictly as a Kindle. So working on these book projects, it's like time and again when you're doing the layouts Folks doing will say well we need a better scan or a photo of this. It doesn't look too good So, ah Okay got it going go into these archives again because it's immense finding one little piece of paper so as I've been doing this going through again, I've been kind of Putting together future content for the website materials that won't be in the books you know and

05:12 So it made sense. There's a lot of stuff I want people to see so the things that aren't going to be in the books are ending up on the website and I've set all these folders for future posts, and you know probably got 50 different folders of stuff! So there'll be enough material To keep this website content fresh and going for you know a few years at least Fun that you have websites looking good i got a lot of help from my publisher fiji press it goes by the handle of groucho gandhi he's kind of the webmaster and he also has a portion of the.

05:52 archives there where he lives. I won't say where he lived, but he's on the other side of the country. Right on! Powerful stuff man busy keeping busy Oh hell yeah! I saw you post a week or so ago about one of Tila Tequila's ramblings You should send her an application to be a high priestess of Discordianism She would fit the bill right? oh hell yeah that was funny yes some posts on about she was invoking Eris And that's weird i'd you know it's like. I don't know how much a want to cozy up to her probably discredited everything on my doing right i've been actually trying to get her come on the show because all that would be fun yeah she makes such wild claims,

06:40 Like she said, well I don't know if you knew but she said like some of the things recently Paul Walker was an Illuminati sacrifice. She says that she's performed her own ritualistic murders to be in the club? I mean she straight-up said like it reminds me at the time I had a ritualistic murder and i'm like you can't just say that there's like legal ramifications for saying shit like that So you've reached out to her people Well, she has her own Teala Truth blog or something like that. Anonymous it's called a non-truth blog and that's her website and on there she goes by tequila truth I've tried I've emailed all the different various things A lot of them come back where you get that message You'll get that automated immediate message that says this address is no longer valid

07:26 I've been getting a lot of those. So out of the five addresses that I can find for, three have sent me back this address is no longer in existence messages so...I don't know what the hell she's doing but... A lot of times the best way to get ahold these people are through their publicists. I think she's on her own at this point! You think she has got a publicist still? Oh man, a lot of this just seems like publicity to me Well, yeah out there. I don't know if she's still doing TV shows. I don't really keep up well She's not really doing any TV shows but she just put out this performance art piece called Tila tequila backdoored and squirting and Yeah But what's interesting about it is? She breaks into a British accent And which some people of course in the alternative community are alluding to being an altar but

08:18 But I just think that she might be fucking around. Like, she's heard about the Britney Spears situation and she wants to say, I'm special too guys! Like, I'm like that. So in the middle of her porn shoot she breaks into a British accent just to get attention that she wasn't gonna get otherwise. Yeah it's like she's going through a list of things to touch upon you know this latest invoking the goddess Eris where'd-you know whered' she pull that out? Yeah, so I don't know but I would love to sit with her for an hour and let her make ridiculous statement after ridiculous statement. And just for the fun of it. Oh! I want to be in on that yeah Well if she ever gets back to me for sure...and that's what is crazy is there can't be a lot people banging down your door and I'm trying pretty hard Professor Griff's another one I haven't been able get hold up although that's little bit more serious request. Oh yeah he's cool

12:12 Alright people, as we explore the depths of misinformation and narrative control that has been so graciously bestowed upon us. We have to reassess almost everything we know in certain areas and one of those huge areas is our ancient past in the real timeline of humanity Well today's guest is the perfect guy to help us look at some of the evidence and writings that contradict our official story. Michael Cremo has been studying this field for many years, and has authored several books on these topics including Forbidden Archaeology, Human Devolution, The Hidden History Of The Human Race, and most recently My Science My Religion He is the powerhouse in the alternative history field, and I'm damn pleased to have him here! Michael man how are you?

12:51 I'm doing great. Thanks a lot, and I hope you and all your listeners are also feeling fine Yeah better every day man It is truly an honor. I just I hope I can keep up with you on this one I mean I guess the best way to start would be to say that We've heard from a lot of people who think that humanity is a lot older than we're led to believe And I'm there you got me but there's still many different views of the alternative history world Some think we've had periods of technology that rival what we have today. Some people think that we may have started on Mars, some people think we've been educated or even engineered by an alien race so there's many different thoughts on this and just so we set the stage for the people listening can you give us your perspective with a little overview of how you see humanity's timeline if you wouldn't mind?

13:37 I'm very much influenced in my work by my studies of the ancient Sanskrit writings of India, which have a cyclical concept of time. Times go in vast cycles. In all of these cycles, according to these ancient texts, humans have been present. So I would expect to find a human presence going all the way back to the very beginnings of the history of life on Earth. Most scientists today would say humans like us first appeared less than 200,000 years ago on Earth. Their claim is that all the evidence supports that idea but if you actually look as I have into the entire history of archaeology and look at all of the reports not just the ones we see in

14:33 today's textbooks, but all of them you'll see numerous discoveries of human bones and footprints and artifacts going back many millions of years to the very beginnings in the history of life on earth. Wow. Is there any type of techniques for dating? Because I've heard like carbon dating, which is of course the most popular and most known about method of dating old things...I've heard it only works up to a certain point. Is there a technique that stretches back further or is that misinformation?" Well, you're correct that the radiocarbon method of dating has a very short period of time in which it's applicable. It's based on the concept that the body contains a type of radioactive carbon called Carbon-14 and if an element is radioactive, that means it decays into other elements

15:33 in what's called a half-life. The half life of carbon 14 is about 5,000 years so that means after 5000 years half of it is gone and another 5000 years the other half of what's left is gone and by the time you go back to 20 half lives or 100,000 there's no more left to measure. So that's why that method only works back about 100,000 years. There's another method that can be used on bone and that is the uranium series method. It goes back a few hundred thousand years because the

16:22 the half-life of the radioactive elements is longer than the carbon half life. But once you go back that far, there arenít any methods that will allow you to directly date human bones or any other type of bones therefore scientists have to rely on dating of the age of the formations, the layers of rock in which bones and human artifacts may be found. So there are radiometric methods that allow them to date layers of rock of different kinds

17:05 For example, there's the potassium-argon method which is used to date volcanic types of rock. That method can go back millions and millions of years but you don't use it to date the object or bone itself. You use it to date the layers of rock in which objects are found so yes there are different dating methods and they are applied in different ways. Right on. And let me ask you another question, I mean considering all the research you've done on these ancient Sanskrit texts would you walk us through a couple of your favorite writings? A lot of people consider these things to be fiction or moral tales or fables but it makes sense to me that it would be an historical account and people would start writing down what's going on but what are some of your favorite stories that are really interesting about that suggest maybe another technology or some type of other communication

18:07 Youíre right, these writings contain historical elements. They contain philosophical elements and all kinds of things as far as descriptions of advanced technologies I would say what I find most interesting is the descriptions of flying machines and spaceships. They're called Vamanas, and there are many different kinds because the ancient Sanskrit texts say we live in a multi-level cosmos

18:44 where the energies at different levels are of different kinds. Some are more dense, some are more subtle energies and there are descriptions of Vimanas or spacecraft that operate in different energy fields. Some of them are made of ordinary metals like steel and iron, others are made with more subtle energies and there are descriptions of all different kinds I also find fascinating the descriptions of weapons resembling modern nuclear weapons. The ancient Sanskrit texts describe a weapon called a brahmastra,

19:31 If you look at the description, it says when this weapon goes off, it's as if you had millions of suns all gathered together in one place. It sounds very much like what occurs when you have the explosion of an atomic weapon Actually, I find it very interesting that Dr. Robert Oppenheimer who was the scientist in charge of the American project to develop an atomic bomb during World War II was, in addition to being a great physicist, also a great student of the ancient Sanskrit writings and when the first

20:15 United States atomic bomb was tested in 1945 at Alamogordo, New Mexico. He was there in the bunker when it was set off and that huge light lit up the the sky like a million suns all in one place, he began reciting Sanskrit text from these ancient Sanskrit writings. So I think that's pretty interesting. Yeah! I had heard that before and always thought it was fairly cryptic what he said and yeah there definitely seemed to be some type of thing he was conveying that he wasn't really saying outright. Interesting guy, he was! Now there are a lot of cultures that have ancient stories or legends that involve mating with another race or hybridization with some type of otherworldly intelligence I mean do you consider these to be historic accounts? Or is there some hyperbole there

21:15 I think there can be some truth to these things because even in modern science, we're seeing some very unusual manipulations of the reproduction patterns of different animals. There are things like interspecies embryo transfer where they'll transfer the embryo of a creature of one species into the womb of another, of another species and you know the mother will give birth to a creature that's not her own species. And course there are hybrid plants, there are hybrid animals so I

22:04 I'm not surprised by some of the accounts that we see in the writings of different ancient wisdom traditions that talk about celestial-terrestrial hybrids. For example, the Sanskrit text Mahabharata is a text that talks about these things. There are five heroes called the Pandavas. They were five brothers, and they were fighting for the cause of right and justice and truth on Earth against the forces of darkness. Each of these five brothers

22:53 Their mother was terrestrial, but their fathers were extraterrestrials according to the accounts. We see this in a lot of ancient wisdom traditions. Traditionally, the Japanese emperors are said to be descended from a terrestrial mother who mated with celestial beings. So we see this in a lot of different wisdom traditions – this idea of terrestrial-celestial hybrids and

23:37 I think the possibility of such things is definitely there. Yeah, man. I mean there's just too many cultures that reference that kind of stuff and also just give being given knowledge by sky people and It's kind of funny because even in religions it's it's just weird because how would in modern times translating the difference between gods and aliens seems almost impossible Because you're talking about people who came from the sky more advanced have more technology And it's almost like a given that They were probably trying to describe some type of... it's more down-to-earth to think they were trying to describe some type of real being than some kind of idea of a god. But, uh... Well the way I look at it—I mean, I appeared in the series Ancient Aliens that aired on The History Channel over the past few years and is still airing And my take on it is

24:37 The two things are contradictory. I think there could be both things, one thing doesn't rule out the other. Yeah, there can be other human-like beings from other parts of the universe with more advanced technology I think there could also be higher beings from more subtle realms of reality that have also visited the Earth, perhaps with different purposes in mind. So I don't think that the idea of ancient aliens or ancient astronauts rules out the possibility that there could also be, in addition to those creatures,

25:22 higher beings, gods, goddesses, some supreme conscious being. I don't think the two things are necessarily contradictory but that's my take on it and everybody's got to make up their own minds about these things. That's fair. Hey Michael Adam here! I had a question you kind of just answered it You talked about multi-level cosmos, which kind of says to me multiple alternate dimensions we live in and the subtle energies within those. Would those account for ghost sightings and some paranormal UFO sightings?

26:06 I would say yes. Here's the way that I look at ghosts, first of all we have to understand what a human being is really made of. Today many scientists will say that a human being or any other living thing is just a machine made up of molecules and thatís all there But I think there is more to it. A human being is made of three things, ordinary matter � we have a gross physical body made of the chemical elements but beyond that, I think we have a subtle body made up mind and intelligence, subtle energies

26:46 In that subtle or astral body, sometimes we travel out of the body. Beyond that there is a conscious self and there's evidence for this that people have out-of-body experiences. A human being is made of mind, matter and consciousness. When I say consciousness and mind, I mean things that have their own independent existence. Many scientists would say that mind and consciousness are just some temporary byproducts of bioelectrical activity in the brain as soon as the chemicals in the brain are disorganized there's no more mind or consciousness.

27:33 I don't believe that. I think mind and consciousness have their own independent existence, but I also believe in reincarnation so here's how I would explain ghost. Sometimes when a person dies, the normal process is their gross physical form dies but the subtle mental body and the soul or conscious self still exist. Based on the condition of the subtle mental body, the

28:10 person will get another gross physical body. But sometimes what happens is a person doesn't get another gross physical body and they're stuck, the conscious self and the subtle mental body are stuck. And then they try to take possession of another gross physical body or manipulate things you move things around and stuff like that. They get stuck on that more subtle realm. So, yeah I think this idea of different energy levels or different dimensions of reality and different substances that make up what a living thing actually is does go along way in explaining phenomena such as ghosts and other paranormal phenomena

29:12 Yeah, I think that makes sense too. And of course you're very much into Eastern spirituality and I've dabbled with psychedelics—I know Adam has as well but I think both of those things lead people to that similar place of examining consciousness is something closer to the core for a person is rather than the three-dimensional body and for people who entertain that possibility have been that it's internal energy manifesting itself in a three dimensional reality to experience the world as this illusion of separateness To bring it back to forbidden archaeology, it seems like such a powerful design. And to think that it would only exist on this planet for such a small amount of time as the mainstream suggests... I mean that seems like a waste of such an enormously complex system! You'd think it would exist on other planets for sure

30:01 Yeah, well ideas are beginning to change a little bit even within the world of mainstream science. I'm a member of the World Archaeological Congress which is one of the world's largest international organizations of archaeologists and every four years they hold a big meeting in a different city in the world and the last couple meetings that they've held as As part of their official conferences, they've had sections where they discuss extraterrestrial archaeology. In other words, what if we're not alone in the universe? What if when we go to other planets, archaeologists find

30:50 the remains of other civilizations and things like that. And most countries, including the United States at one time or another have funded what they call SETI, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. and now we're starting to see a lot of reports at the news about discoveries of planets birth like planets orbiting songs other solar systems with other parts of the galaxy this is uh... becoming very com you know i just heard some reports uh... just the other day it looking through that news reports so this is something

31:33 I think we're gradually being prepared to accept that. alone in the cosmos. I think Stephen Hawking, who is a famous astrophysicist has said within the past couple of years that we're not alone in the universe so it's something that I think is becoming more and more acceptable even within you know the mainstream circles they're gradually creeping in that direction

32:09 Well this is kind of close to another question I was going to ask you. There's a lot of people in the alternative community that suggest, sometimes from ancient writings and other things, that we visited the moon or even came from Mars in the ancient past. Have you seen anything to suggest that would be true? Or lead you to believe there might be some credence for those kinds of stories? Well, the way I look at it is we're part of a whole cosmic hierarchy of beings. According to the ancient Sanskrit writings there are 400,000 human-like species scattered throughout the cosmos on different levels of reality so I wouldn't be surprised at all

32:55 learned that well We're related to other intelligent conscious beings who exist in other parts of our solar system of our galaxy of Our universe I wouldn't be surprised at all however, you know and In one sense. I think we're all extraterrestrials in this sense that We are made of matter, mind and consciousness. I think that conscious self has an origin on some higher level of reality that I call the level of pure consciousness.

33:41 That's beyond the material universes. So I think we're all, whether we're now existing in what you would call three-dimensional material bodies on the Earth or Mars or wherever some planet orbiting some sun in some other solar system, we're all ultimately from the same place. We're all ultimately related to each other and it's just under the influence of some very incorrect ideas about reality that we

34:18 divide ourselves on this earth even into so many different competing groups. So I would kind of stress the unity ultimately of all conscious beings and that makes sense too So to bring this back down to earth, pun intended and talk about archaeology outside of these ancient texts and old oral traditions I mean are there any major archaeological finds or structures that you'd consider To throw the biggest wrench in the conventional ideas about our human history? Oh there are

34:55 There were hundreds of such cases. Some of my favorite examples are the ones that I've written are the California gold mine discoveries, for example. During the Gold Rush days miners were digging tunnels into the sides of mountains in the Sierra Nevada Mountains near the town of Sonora and Deep inside the tunnels of a solid rock, they were finding human skeletons. They were finding obsidian spear points and stone mortars and pestlesóall kinds of stones tools and weapons. These are found in layers of rock that modern geologists

35:49 to be about 50 million years old. They were reported to the scientific world by Dr. J.D. Whitney, who was the chief government a government geologist of California. His report was published by Harvard University, but we don't hear about these things very much today because of what I call the process of knowledge filtration that operates in the world There were other scientists who lived at the same time as Dr. Whitney, like Dr. William Holmes who was an anthropologist at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington.

36:32 If Dr. Whitney had understood the theory of human evolution, he wouldn't have published that report." In other words there's a tendency among scientists to ignore reject and dismiss discoveries that radically contradict dominant theories and accepted ideas. If that just happens once or twice, maybe you could overlook it but if it happens hundreds of times then I think you got to ask what's going on here? I always find it fascinating, not just that there are these discoveries of human bones and artifacts and footprints going back millions of years before mainstream science thinks that humans like us first came into existence.

37:21 The discoveries themselves are interesting, but what's also interesting is how the discoveries are treated in this process of knowledge filtration that operates in the world of science. Yes, I'm really really interested in that area specifically the subject of information control and there's different schools of thought. Of course, I mean there are some researchers in the conspiracy realm who suggest that people in control of the world today are actually members of a specific network of people that have probably been in control throughout several mass extinction level catastrophes and then they keep this information very close to the chest

38:00 put forth structures where they will remain on top of the pyramid, and that this goes on for centuries and centuries with certain families and bloodlines. I mean... And that is far out stuff! For a lot of people that just seems like way too hard to believe But sometimes when I see this type of information filtration, I'm like is it just the ego of people who've been studying this for a long time? Or are there established institutions funded by these very families that make sure that the information fits inside a certain parameter and if it doesn't they just dismiss that. Do you think that's a possibility that you entertain or is that just too far off the reservation?"

38:39 I entertain all the possibilities. There could be multiple things going on, but in some cases it's just human nature operating. For example if somebody tells me something bad about the person that they love and I don't want to believe it I may even become a little angry at the person who speaks these things. So, some scientists are like that and they're just very much in love with their theories when they hear something that goes against it and they just naturally respond in a protective way to what they deeply believe or love.

39:16 I think there are other elements involved as well. Power can be an element in this and we see that people who have power, particularly those who have monopoly power don't like to give it up. centuries, there's been a group of scientists who have gotten a monopoly in the scientific institutions and education systems. They're putting forward very materialistic conceptions of who we are and where we came from.

40:02 That gives them a great deal of control over human society because the goals and values that we have are to a large extent determined by our concept of self. For example, if I think that Iím an American man thatís how I behave. So if you can define peopleís existence so you tell them that theyíre a machine made of matter in competition with other machines made of matter for survivalÖ That has the effect of causing people to think that producing and consuming more and more material things is the main purpose of human life. So they do that, which generates huge amounts of wealth that flows into their lives.

40:55 in a unfair way into certain pockets and there are a lot of interest in society financial interests political interests other interests that want to see that continue they don't wanna see people get distracted from that like if people had a different concept of self i'm not being a pure consciousness that's temporarily here at this world of matter and i should be of That would be very bad in terms of because people would be spending less time and energy Producing it consuming more and more material things that would be very bad. Yes, I would for those who

41:54 want to keep people absorbed in producing and consuming more and more material things, to the exclusion of every other type of human value or purpose. So I think yes there are groups that want certain ideas intact because it keeps people focused on material production and consumption which generates wealth for corporations, financial institutions and governments. Nobody really wants to rock the boat. Right yeah I think that's a brilliant breakdown

42:35 I've also often thought about that, you know this type of these types of ideas they unite people You know which makes war tougher. It makes having sweatshops tougher Absolutely right our number one tool against an oppressive elite is our numbers So if you keep us separated we're not going to realize that power We might not realize that it bothers us to have people in other countries making our stuff for pennies on the dollar and then we might not get together and stand up to this power. So yeah, I think that's pretty powerful stuff. Yeah, I think there are two basically two types of conscious beings in the universe One type is trying to get more and more deeply involved in domination controlling and exploiting matter

43:27 in competing groups, and therefore we see conflict on all levels of human society. Conflict among individuals, conflict among races, conflict among classes, conflict among nations, conflict among religions � you just see it But there's another type of person, conscious being who is thinking I am a being in pure consciousness. I'm not just the machine made of matter and competition with others for survival. We're all beings in pure consciousness. We're all related to each other. No use dividing ourselves into so many competing groups.

44:08 Let's try to satisfy our material needs in the most simple natural and efficient way possible, and that would Reverse a lot of the environmental degradation That we see around this it would stop a lot of the wars and conflict that we see going on around us And it would be better for people I think the kind of world we live in depends on the balance between the two types of people and who's dominant.

44:50 In the world, the way it's set up now those who are into the domination control and exploitation and divisions and competition and conflict they've got things setup for their purposes. Those of us who are trying for something else are kind of on the margins at this point I agree with you. To bring this back to the ancient past, some people suggest that there are many types of natural energy forces that we ignore or have been suppressed in our pursuit of oil and coal and nuclear and all these incredibly risky or dirty technologies

45:34 It is easy to glorify and romanticize the past, but I mean do you think there was ever a time where we may have had a more sophisticated and technologically advanced society where the balance was tilted more in favor of probably what you or I would like in a society? Yes, I think that is true. Of course we have to consider what do we mean by advanced? Advanced could mean simple living and high thinking. That's true! If you look at the people

46:14 who've got through history have whose reputations have survived you know they tend to be spiritual spiritually minded people who were manifesting values like that uh... you know the the buddha's of the christ and uh... avatars things like that they were representing this other point of point of view. So I think in the past there were, and there could be today civilizations organized on a different basis than civilizations are organized today. Actually, I think a lot of our modern technology is

47:12 attempts to reproduce abilities people want that naturally yeah like people have the ability you know like there's telepathy and remote viewing good things like that uh... i think our a lot of our technology today in terms of the internet smartphones televisions things like that is are attempt to reproduce in technological form abilities that people once had naturally. Not only do we try to reproduce

47:58 natural psychic abilities that people have in technological devices, we try to do it in a way that makes them marketable so that you can extract wealth from people and establish control over them. I think that's part of the evil genius of capitalism Yeah, like Facebook and things like that. Now they've been able to monetize and extract wealth from people's social dealings. You used to just hang out with your friends but now you have to hang out with your friends in such a way that you're being sold to advertisers and people are making money off of your personal

48:47 social activities, you know. It's kind of an interesting bargain." Well the world is in a weird place right now because like you're mentioning there are major conglomerates and corporations on the internet that are monetizing off this stuff but at the same time we're learning so much more than we've learned in previous generations That connectedness is happening with us We're seeing more of how people live on other big islands on this rock Yeah, like I said it's a deal. It is. There are some positive things but there are some negative things that go along with it Agreed and I think that as the internet finds more ways this philosophy of the internet finds more ways to manifest in 3D reality like we're seeing 3d printers I mean That's the number one way Like that's that is torrenting music right there for objects

49:38 You just duplicate things. I think we're finding ways to bring back the veil of this perceived scarcity of all our resources that make things more expensive and people can manage them for us, and we're realizing hey you know we can create stuff Bitcoin is a way that we're doing that with the financial markets. It's pretty interesting, I'm a huge fan of...I mean that's what this show is on you know? The internet! That's where people are learning about this stuff you're not going to see it in some CNN. Oh yeah, I'm not against it but uh.. You know there are... different people with different interests involved.

50:28 Yeah, this is a battle that's gone on since times began. There have always been the two types of conscious beings those striving to become more and more deeply involved in dominating, exploiting, controlling matter and those that are looking to develop consciousness so it has been going on since time began nothing new about it We're just getting our particular version of it today. Yeah Hey, Michael how important is humankind in the role of all this in the role of the universe well It's very interesting the human form we have We're at a crossroads We can go either way

51:24 In the human form, it's possible for a conscious self to rise to a level of awareness where it can rise to a stage where it no longer has to exist in contact with matter and material forms which are temporary. Say right now our conscious self is connected with a body that's going to get old, that's going to get sick, that's going to die, it's going to take another birth and undergo another cycle of birth and death and Buddhist

52:00 Vedic philosophy, this is called samsara, the wheel of birth and death. There are all kinds of limitations placed upon consciousness on this level of reality in the human form. It's like a spaceship or space vehicle, very complex biological entity that can allow the conscious self to raise itself beyond all this and get to that level of pure consciousness where there is no birth, there is no death or competition or scarcity. It's kind

52:46 a vehicle that has very advanced capabilities built into it if we choose to use them for that purpose. But the way society is structured today, we're encouraged to use this very capable vehicle for other purposes and So I think the human vehicle is very important in the cosmos because it has that capability to take conscious selves out of this whole cycle of samsara.

53:28 The human vehicle can also be used for domination, control, exploitation and remaining entangled in samsara. Another thread I wanted to pull with you just for fun are these stories that I'm fascinated with these stories of giant skeletons but Whether or not there's a cover-up on this stuff or not, it seems really hard to get any kind of proof... ...or valid information for these sources. I mean do you think that's a credible thing? Do you entertain the idea of these ancient giant skeletons...? Or do you think that that's kind of a hoax?

54:10 Well, I think that in the past large-sized humans did exist. Even as part of ordinary science before 5 or 10 thousand Years ago, most living things were bigger than they are today. The animals were bigger and the plants were bigger. I live in California � you go into the Sierra Nevada Mountains and see the California redwood trees. They're huge! Some of them are over 300 or 400 feet tall. The trunks are so big that sometimes they

54:49 make roads that go through the trunks of these trees. They're amazing! They are actually the largest living things on earth and some of them are over 5000 years old, so I think they're kind a holdover from that earlier time where things were bigger than they are today. So I think there were large-sized humans who existed in the past, but one has to be careful about it. You see a lot of photographs circulating on the web and they generally turn out to be Photoshop hoaxes and sometimes you can really identify them.

55:33 a very famous one that was circulating all over the web and still circulating for many years, shows us this huge skeleton maybe 40 feet long in the ground. There are little scientists archaeologists around it digging so I kind of noticed from the bones of the skeleton you can see the shadows and from the shadows you could tell where the sun was. The sun was high into the rear now behind the huge skull of this creature. There was an archaeologist standing with a shovel in his hand and According to where the Sun, the light source was he should have been casting a shadow across the skull But he wasn't so that kind of tipped me off. This is a Photoshop job and somebody just wasn't careful enough in doing What they're doing but I think there is evidence that

56:33 You have to search it out very carefully, but I think there is evidence that there are One of the interesting discoveries that was reported in scientific journals, starting in France in the latter part of the 19th century. There were some discoveries made at a place called

57:10 called, trying to remember what it was, Castelnau in France. It's a place near the town of Montpellier in France. There was a French archaeologist named Georges de La Pouge and he found photographs of these bones in scientific journals. He found arm bones and leg bones that were human The leg bone was a femur or thigh bone. If you have a measurement of how big the thigh bone is, physical anthropologists can tell you how big the human would've been that had a thigh bone this size.

58:02 So they determined that the creature that had this particular thigh bone of this particular length must have been over 11 feet tall. So, I think there is some...this is the best documented case that I've seen so far. I'm very interested in cases like this but as you were saying finding evidence that really stands up to

58:38 investigation is a little bit difficult. But this is the best one I've seen so far." Right on, well it gives me hope that's not all just a sham! On the subject of multiple cataclysms...a lot of people talk about there maybe being six mass extinction events we've gone through? A huge theme in these ancient writings seems to be a worldwide flood event. I mean, do you think that might have been the last of many major disasters that we've had to overcome? Well yes and it's interesting if you look at say the ancient Sanskrit writings they talk about

59:22 vast cycles of time. One of the units of these cycles is called the Kalpa or the Day of Brahma, and it lasts for about 4 billion 320 million years. It's divided into sub-cycles called Manvantaras that each last about about 300 million years. According to the ancient Sanskrit calendar, we're now in the middle of the seventh manvantar of the current kalpa that were in.

1:00:00 So, if we're in the seventh manvantara that means there have been six manvantara cycles before us in this creation cycle. And according to the ancient Sanskrit text between each manvantara there is a devastation involving a flood which wipes out life on earth and if we're in the seventh manvantara that means there have been six of of these devastations before us, which matches up with what modern science says that over the past couple of billion years there have been six major extinction events spaced at intervals of several hundred million years. So it's kind of interesting that there are parallels

1:00:48 between what modern paleontology says and what some of these ancient wisdom texts say about the history of life on earth, and the repeated catastrophes that have taken place. Now this gets back to the multi-level universe that I was talking about... On our level of reality, there have been periodic devastations that have wiped out life on earth. The means for repopulating the earth exists at higher levels of the cosmos It's like now many people are into what they call cloud computing Yes, which means that you keep your files and your programs on some server up in the cloud as they call it Which means that if your smartphone or computer gets destroyed or damaged? You know, you can always get another device and

1:01:50 You can download your pictures, songs and files and programs which are kept up on the cloud. I think a similar thing operates in the universe where things can get destroyed at this level of reality Modern science admits there have been these big extinction events. The ancient wisdom traditions talk about them as well, huge devastations that take place and wipe out life on Earth but higher beings at that higher level of reality have the means and the resources to repopulate the Earth when that happens so I think that has happened repeatedly

1:02:36 Yeah, that's a really interesting concept. I mean it's kind of like how genetic memory works people just talk about the possibility that instincts and things like that are actually some type of genetic memory that we can tap into as if each human is a computer tapping back into that cloud of information Of course, I would explain it in a slightly different way that the soul or the conscious self maintains contact with subtle

1:03:17 body of mind and intelligence that incorporates memories. So in one lifetime, a whole group of memories would be imprinted in the mind and intelligence. And when at the time of death, the soul leaves the body it goes with this subtle body of mind and intelligence so that over many lifetimes it accumulates In other words, in our minds today there are memories not just from this lifetime but memories from perhaps many millions of lifetimes that we've existed on this planet in human bodies and plant bodies and animal bodies.

1:04:06 We have memories of things that just didn't occur in this life or dreams these things may come out. We may see things, hear things and experience things in dreams that we really can't trace to anything that's happened to us in this life. Or many people often have the experience of meeting someone that they've never met before in this life, but still they feel some relationship with that person, some strong connection with that person I would say it could be a either a memory from

1:04:49 past life, that we were connected with this person in a past life and now we're reestablishing that connection in this life. Or sometimes people have these deja vu experiences where they go to a place they've never been to before but they feel like they've been there before perhaps in a past life. So I think we do tap into the whole reservoir of memories and experiences that is not limited to our present experience of this body, and this lifetime. Yeah it's fascinating stuff! And it's a wonder why people today would rather watch football than explore those weird things about life but um...I want to ask you another question about

1:05:39 cataclysms, there seems to be like a lot of oral traditions or at least a couple where people talk about other types of global catastrophes other than a flood particularly asteroids. Do you think that there's been times where You know There's been some type of impact that has wiped out huge amounts of humanity but yet little pockets have survived pass on those type of oral stories David Morgan is a great guy. It's a kind of evidence that can help us show how long humans have actually been on this planet. I think it was just last year that people in Russia saw this huge meteor go streaking across the sky, and they recorded it on cell phone cameras and things like that, and it smashed into the Earth!

1:06:36 You know, I think people have been witnessing such things for thousands even millions of years and it's recorded in some of their legends. There are some interesting cases in Australia where scientists have located impact craters – places where asteroids or comets or meteors have smashed into the earth and left craters The interesting thing is that local Australian Aboriginal people have in their legends accounts, for example a star fell down at this place.

1:07:21 now what's really interesting is that scientists have been able to take these craters this part of the place called wolfs creek at australia central australia uh... according to geologists it's three hundred thousand years old but the local tribe of australian aboriginal people that lives near there has legends about a star falling and hitting the earth that would tend to indicate that they people saw this 300,000 years ago and kept it in their legends now according to modern science The human species humans of our time are less than 200 thousand years old and They think the first humans

1:08:14 came to Australia about 70,000 years ago. But there's this 300,000 year old crater and Australian Aboriginal people have legends about a star falling and making it. I take it as evidence that humans existed long before scientists There's another impact crater in Australia at a place called Goss' Bluff, and it is millions of years old. The local people have a legend about how stars or celestial objects fell at that place making it, which indicates to me

1:09:04 That people were existing millions of years ago to observe these things at least that's the way that I look at it Yeah, man. It's so exciting when ancient legends and modern science cross paths That's that mysterious sweet spot that I love to hit But man that pretty much does it for us? I could bounce questions off you all day You're a fascinating guy thanks for doing this And would you like to tell people little bit about your website and what you got going on now um The main website for people interested in my work is mcremo.com and there they can find my schedule

1:09:50 of lectures and interviews. They can also find information about all of my books, like Forbidden Archaeology where I talk about the archaeological evidence for extreme human antiquity, my book Human Devolution in which I get into some things that are related to consciousness and extraterrestrial life, the interactions of humans with extraterrestrials. My latest book �My Science, my Religion� is a collection of 24 papers that I presented on these topics at major international scientific conferences.

1:10:36 So, information about these books can be found on my website mccremo.com. I also have a Facebook page, Michael Cremo It's Really Me and I can be followed on Twitter at michaelcremo.com. Thanks again. You know this has definitely been awesome one of my favorites I definitely appreciate you taking the time good luck to you and keep digging My pleasure, maybe we'll do it again sometime for sure man enjoy the day bye-bye Bye bye. I thought that was pretty solid stuff man. I mean any thoughts on that yeah well interesting guy what lots uh

1:11:21 material there to chew over. Definitely makes you think about all this and the history of our planet and us. Yeah, I mean...I love that alternative history stuff one of the major players that everybody always talks about is Zachariah Stichen and that whole theme of being engineered by the Anunnaki to be a slave race mining gold I don't know. For that particular story, wouldn't it be easier for an advanced race just to make gold than to engineer a biological species of slaves that got out of control and now have conquered the planet? Wouldn't it be easier just as soon as alchemy? Well maybe there's some greater design we're not capable of understanding Greg. It's interesting I asked him about what is our role you

1:12:12 you know humans are we really important all this up and that you know his comment was interesting that the. Humans need intimated there's possibly all kinds of human different human species throughout the cosmos were basically a little car to drive around in the for consciousness to put itself as we go through these Evolution or wherever we're going so that makes sense. Yeah, I get it you know Right?

1:12:49 I mean, from my perspective it's all guesswork. I'm just some idiot stoner but the world is a mysterious place and lately when people have been telling me that something isn't possible because we'd have had evidence of that... You know? I just saw this week two things caught on film for the first time stories of these things one of them a fish jumped out of water and ate a bird that was flying by and there was a big headline you know first time ever captured on film And then, it's pretty cool to see. But the second thing was that they found out that spiders make replicas of themselves in their web using insect bodies and twigs to kind-of make a fake spider for whatever it is... For decoy purposes or maybe just to scare off predators? But that also! New discovery 2014 There has been a lot of fucking birds fish and spiders

1:13:40 That we've seen for the past 2,000 years and we're still learning shit So you know when someone tells me there can't be aliens because we'd have found a picture of one I'm like You know put that in perspective man Because I don't know that we would and also there's nobody out there. That's trying to actively suppress information about fish eating birds It is a crazy story now. I Hadn't heard that yeah, it's pretty trippy oh Yeah animals are amazing Including my cat. It's always coming up with stuff The other day, this is just a dumb little story but love them love them Yeah the cats I heard the water bowl being knocked around what the hell you know You start worrying about that maybe something's wrong with her yeah and I go over there and well There was a bunch there's little food bits in there And the water was getting low

1:14:35 So that's her way of telling me fill up the damn water dish now she figured out that works and so she's doing it all the time Anytime, it's not satisfactory. Let's bath a little Water dish around animals are smart man yeah hey let me something weird just You're sounding really robotic, like all of a sudden. Greetings Earthling! That is awesome that actually sounds exactly like you probably want it to sound Alright man well that pretty much does it for us Thanks for joining me Adam you know you wanna tell people a little bit more about what's going on at GoRightly Productions lately? Oh we mentioned in the lead-in The new website HistoriaDiscordia.com

1:15:27 documenting the origins and history of the Discordian Society, and that's leading to several book projects. A couple that will be out this year one is called once again Historia, Discordia The Origins Of The Discordian Society And then another book the title will be Caught In The Crossfire Kerry Thornley Oswald & Garrison's JFK Assassination Investigation So those two books will be coming out this year and a few more book projects in the future on the Discordian Society. I'm still working on music, and then there'll be some other book projects once all this Discordia stuff gets done with. They're kind of on the back burner—perhaps a book

1:16:26 UFO contactees and some other crazy stuff. So I'm staying real busy, yeah. For sure! Powerful stuff man well thanks again people please remember if you buy something from Amazon go through the link on our website that says shop through this and the podcast gets a commish because that's exactly what will happen The new Money Bomb just hit 100 bucks with like four weeks left to go this could be a big one Woohoo! Yeah donate if you feel compelled That's a pretty cool deal, yeah. Yeah so you know people share the show with the world it's the only advertisement we get thanks for being so cool everybody keep your pimp hands strong anything to add Adam? We are the world! Well said well said that is a period at the end of this hour-long sentence thanks people take it easy see you next time You got to go dig those holes

1:17:18 With broken hands and withered souls, emancipated from all you know. You got to go dig those holes. Dig it up, dig it up, dig it up, oh-oh, dig it up Take it on, take it on, take it on, oh-oh-on. Two suits two tokens in hand I got no respect cause' I'm the new man Got my shovel shoes full of sand Check out the tag the name is caveman Take it on, take it on, take it on, oh-oh-on

1:18:18 Take a bad boy, make him dig five feet The dirt in these shuffles will give us a beat Okay you gotta find something never found before If not we'll just have to dig some more Na na na na na na na na Na na na na na na na na Na na na na na na na na Na na na na Take it all on him! Take it all on him! Take it all on him! Take it off, take it off, take it off, take it off, oh no. Your ass may blister your muscles stay sore you wanna break like all the wardens do. Take it off, take it off, take it off, take it off,

1:19:22 A-R-M-P, I to the T What is that you smelling dog? That's me. I don't take showers and I don't brush my teeth. That's all I do is dig holes, eat and sleep There is no lake there is no shade there is no place to hide so just sit and wait till Friday You got your good and pick those hoes Take it off! Take it off! Take a tenner, make em dig 5 feet Got my shovel, shoes full of sand The dung-diggin' shuffles will give us a beat Check out this hack, the name's Caveman Wake up in the morning summer Keep digging that hole till the day is done Wake up in the morning before the summer Keep digging that hole till the day is done You've got to go Dig those holes

1:20:22 Take it up, take it up, take those boots