THC 47: Jacque Fresco & Roxanne Meadows | The Venus Project – Building A Better World

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! Hey, hey what do you say higher side chatters from San Diego? I'm Greg Carlwood. My god this is a good episode fresh off last week's Good Times with James Colquhoun Kyle is here with me again second week in row What's good pimp oh man? I'm not a pimp. Bye. I got to get that on just straight straight up. I did not sell women but

00:54 Having said that things are going good man. Really really good. I'm psyched about this interview today Yeah, it's been a pretty slow week I did want to thank one of the listeners Fernando for a huge donation of $55 to THC amazing Way more than I would expect for a donation I've gotten a lot of fives couple of tens handful of 20s but 55 is definitely the top of the pile so Thank you and That's generous Crazy Fernando you're the goddamn man, so I also opened up conspiracies to international orders not an easy thing to work out and Shipping was a bit high But I had the first international purchase from Francisco in Belgium picking up the squid of power in the riot cops The only man in the country rocking conspiracies right now. So thanks Francisco two You guys are gonna help me eat this Friday Fernando and Francisco, so thanks

01:47 Yeah, these guys are real trendsetters. I was going to ask you if you heard about what happened with Bernie Madoff this week? He was sitting his ass in jail. That's all I thought about him this week Right, but apparently he is trying to reach out from jail and he wrote a letter to CNBC saying that there's no way banks didn't know exactly what he was doing and he wishes now that he would have pled guilty just or he wouldn't have pled guilty just so he could Have had the big trial exposed that the economy is a whole giant Ponzi scheme of course. He's not gonna be able to say anything too damaging through CNBC so I thought maybe i'd write him and see if he wants to have a letter read on the air, if you were to write me back. I also thought it would be funny give out his prison address in case anyone wants to write him...I mean.. I know he's not the best guy in the world but he has been the martyr for the entire financial sector and that might be a situation that provides us with some insight from a guy who is probably pretty pissed! So....if you do want to write them

02:45 Throw in that you're from THC and if he writes back by all means send it to me. We'll read it here we'll try to get some actual information out If you know, if it works out but it you probably have to rewind this but his address is Bernard L Madoff inmate six one seven two seven zero five four Butner medium B U T N E R medium comma FCI I don't know what that means PO box 1000 in Butner North Carolina 27509 and this would be awesome if somebody got a letter back from Bernie Madoff, but let's see if we can make some news happen people He clearly wants to talk but CNBC is gonna redact anything of real value Bernie You know that so give it a shot. Let's see if we can get him to talk

03:35 There's a history too of other prisoners who when been put in jail now they're like, a lot more open to talking about stuff. The guy who was supposedly the son of Sam killers he let out all kinds information from prison about how it was a network how it was much bigger than just him and how all this occult activity was going on so you know hopefully Bernie Madoff, you know... Join the club! Now that he ultimately got screwed. He's like hey why not I'm just gonna shit on everybody else too You've got nothing to lose Why not? Exactly So if your bored people write Bernie Madoff a letter

04:15 I don't know, it might be fun. But either way today is an amazing show with a perfect guest There's literally nobody on the planet i would rather have in the show nobody this man Is my Clooney he's my Bieber He's my Kanye and I'm talking about Jacque Fresco The founder of The Venus Project I refer to The Venus Project every time someone asks me about A solution To the big conspiracy To Me that's It Kyle what do you think? I think what this guy's laid out is very reasonable. If we were to take all these scientific so-called breakthroughs we've had and actually apply it into a moralistic system of providing for everybody's needs and making sure everybody had access to all the same goods, it just sounds sweet to me. It sounds like the dream

05:05 Amen. And looks like they just signed on, so they're gonna be here to talk to us about it and we'll be right back after this conspiraties ad of course I'm going to try to sell you something on this episode but people say that's hypocritical people have been actually giving me shit about the oh you want me to buy your shirt that says quit your job or you want me to buy your shirts is what's after capitalism well i would say look if the whole country is gonna play a game and we decided it's gonna be soccer. I might scream until i'm blue in the face that baseball, which is much better game as what we should play but you know...I'm still going to try to play soccer well for our plan. They're good shirts man who are these pointers? Who are these fucking brats? Haters! Haters! Haters gonna hate. Dust off the shoulder. Alright yeah alright we're gonna be right back with Jacque Fresco

07:37 I find that people get really uncomfortable when you start talking about replacing the monetary system, which is a sign of excellent brainwashing. But here to give us the deep cleaning we really need is a man who has identified these problems long ago and has spent the better part of his life studying society's effects on human behavior He came up with his own version of a global society beyond politics, poverty and war which he calls the Venus Project. You've seen his work featured in the Zeitgeist movies as well as Future by Design His name is Jacques Fresco and he's here today along with his partner and co-pilot Roxanne Meadows Welcome to the show guys Thank you Greg we appreciate it Yes We do Well, you know Kyle and I are both huge fans of your work. You've done more to open my eyes than anybody has probably anybody ever will at this point there's no one i'd rather bounce questions off than you Jacques and in fact i'm so glad have a chance to say this to directly but only few weeks away from your 97th birthday I am bit ashamed and embarrassed as a human being that we haven't listened to you on much larger scale thank you for everything I consider it an honor

08:41 Oh, I appreciate that. Well clearly humans have never really gotten it right when it comes to structuring a society and for those who haven't heard of the Venus Project the ones we really have to reach today tell us a little bit about what it is Jacques? Well if you want a world without war poverty unemployment hunger and most of the problems that you have You have to change The way we do things You have to declare all the resources of the earth as a common heritage of all the world's people. Anything less than that will result in the same problems over and over again. If you nations control the drinking water and the arable land, other nations will try to invade to take what they need

09:40 You cannot solve problems through self-centeredness or nationalism. I totally agree, like we've seen these problems as long as i've been alive way longer than that and they haven't gone away and I don't think they will unless people take a real look at the structure and decide to change it They can't do that they have to be educated to do that They have to know exactly what makes war why nations kill each other. They have to know why these things happen, it isn't human nature at all there's no such thing as human nature although the nearest thing to it is a knee reflex if you turn the knee lightly it'll move and the elbow

10:31 Human nature is the color of the eyes, but not the value system. Not your attitude! Selfishness is learned. Bigotry is learned. Race prejudice is something you learn in your culture. Your culture responsible for every word you use all facial expressions If you don't remember this, your mother said glass table light over and over again. Mama Papa over and over again so all the words you use are picked up by your culture. That's definitely the case that you've made I do get in some arguments with people who just

11:18 Don't see it that way how would you try to break through the people how would you educate people who are just so stuck in their paradigm because they know nothing else. How would you educate them yes we will educate them by telling me things you know if they don't know Of course they should watch Future by Design and look at your work to really hear more. And this is the big question, it is so important to really help people see the greater vision here let's assume that the world adopted The Venus Project model and we spent a few years getting it set up and a lot of kinks worked out can you walk us through the life of an average person who would grow up in The Venus Project society as opposed to what we have now? They would never get into arguments with one another

12:10 they would say, I don't know. Those are very few words that people ever use. I don't know but if you give everybody a right to their own opinion, you're going to have misinformation all over the world Jacques, is what you advocate that we like Greg just suggested immediately jump into where the whole world accepts The Venus Project or could we start by just allowing some of us to be sovereign? Like let some of us start the project and then the rest of the world can go on in a capitalist fantasy where we destroy the whole world. But can't some of us be sovereign? Can't we just start this? What's preventing the start? Well it starts with education

12:56 You have to hold meetings once a week and discuss the book, the best that money can buy. Chapter by chapter so that all people understand what shapes human behavior." We also are under the confines of the monetary system today So one of things we advocate as a city is to test out the validity of these proposals and have a center for doing research and development. And it takes funding to develop the city... And we should explain to people who haven't heard of The Venus Project, this is a system—a structure beyond money! Can you elaborate on that a little bit? How that would work? Yes as long as you got money You can pay off senators lawyers judges You have to do away with the money system

14:01 We now have the capability of producing in abundance and make it available. If you don't understand this, it's just like a public library where you can access books of any kind. Next door to the public library we have a camera center where you can access any kind of camera you need. Next door to that we have musical instruments where you can access a banjo guitar or saxophone In other words, if you make things available like the public library that's the end of most crime. And how would all these products be made? Through automation correct? Yes eventually automation but during the beginning it has to put together a hand tool until you get to that point Or fabrication making molds What about this 3D printing thats popular now

15:04 What about what? 3D printing that's popular now. They have machines that will actually print objects We would use, we do use them here That sounds like something out of...that sounds very sci-fi to me That's a great technology and it's completely opposed to capitalism It's directly against the system if you can make things abundant how can you really charge for them if your printing them for free You don't charge for anything It's just like a public library. If you don't remember, you go to the library and check out whatever books you want. If you want them longer, you have to call the library and say I'd like to keep the books for another week as long as you tell them that." Right it seems like our technology is actually getting to a point where it's hard to implement within capitalism because things are getting so much easier to make

16:01 Well, not only that. Capitalism wants things to wear out and break down so they can resell otherwise capitalism at one time was the best system we knew of today it's obsolete Politicians as you can see if you watch the newsreel The Democrats cannot communicate with Republicans neither can the Republicans communicate with a Democrat They just make different noises. Remember this, that politicians say things people like to hear whereas scientists say man evolved from the lower animals these are things people don't like to hear and they confront people with their false values There was one time when people believed the earth was flat

16:57 But the scientist says you're wrong. This is the information that we have, the shadows of the Earth on the Moon many other things that they cite to give you the reason why they say it's wrong It's not just an opinion is based upon observation. When I say science, I mean the methods of science Well, you mentioned that we'd be able to end arguments among people and that seems like a pretty lofty goal. How would that be handled? Well, you don't want to argue with people at all ever What you wanna do is tell them give them information that you have regarding the scientific method They don't have in other words People ask me who makes the decisions in The Venus Project That's what they really wanna know

17:55 and nobody makes decisions. They arrive at them. Do you know the difference between making a decision and arriving at a decision? Right, I mean you look at the data and come to a conclusion that isn't based on opinion but... Exactly that! You survey, you do studies of the strength of material and then you write the specifications that this metal has cobalt that manganese, tungsten whatever goes into that metal and makes it resistant to certain forces. The scientific method is the closest method to identifying reality that we know of today." So scientists don't really argue and give opinions they check things out and they put forth

18:49 their findings and other people can duplicate that same thing. They don't say, believe me this is the hardest structure or the hardest material they put it through tests through tensile strength compression strength and they come up with different data And there's nothing to argue about. And the things we don't know? We say we don't have enough information in that area to offer a decision You hold it in abeyance Yeah, the way you guys describe science is just so based on actual data and logic that it just seems almost like a sci-fi. It reminds me of Star Trek. Like on Star Trek there's still bars everybody still goes to the bar and everybody eats together and everybody kind of shares their resources and everybody in that

19:44 TV show was like a scientist, they were just trying to help each other out. When I think of the Venus Project that's really what it reminds me of The real difference in the future is nutritionists will tell you what you have to eat You couldn't buy junk food Cigarettes would not be available because cigarettes always in time produce cancer and heart disease That goes for frankfurters, salami—all preserved foods are dangerous for human beings. Although it sounds completely counterproductive should not an individual have the right to partake in cigarettes and junk food if they desire? Yes during a transition yes but not after the thing is installed children are brought up

20:37 to be educated as to what good nutrition is. They're not brought up that way today." Well, you know they sell cigarettes today and they offer cigarettes not because they're good for people or they help them in any way but because the government gets a kick on the sale of cigarettes. And then also, cigarettes inevitably causes cancer. Cancer is a huge money-making venture within the monetary system—within the medical system." Right... It's always a treatment never a cure but we've talked about education little bit how would you say we've been betrayed by our education system that we have right now? Because in the profit system business works for money

21:29 The proof of that is that they outsource to China rather than employ Americans to do a given job. If you didn't export the China, you would lose your competitive edge. Your profits have to show real high margins otherwise no one will invest in your company unless you have a profit system. I don't know if you heard the question how've been betrayed by their educational system today? You teach them basic science and how it works, and how scientists arrive at decisions. People have no idea they think one opinion is as good as another. Really the education that you have today is based on the need of the culture they're not interested in enabling you to think

22:21 critical about too many things because then you may be contrary to the system and the needs that it has. In other words, every system whether it's communism or socialism with a free enterprise system they all give you an education and raise you to perpetuate that system they don't teach you about cooperation and collectiveness, and working together within the monetary system as they may in a socialism country. Because they teach you how to be individualistic, how to be competitive in the monetary system, how to take care of yourself... And if you do not get the things that require you to live

23:15 One of the basic problems with the way we do education is that if you cooperate with your classmates, that's called cheating. They tell you right away that it's just you, you're on your own here. We're not sharing ideas we are not having dialogue amongst each other and coming to group solutions what were doing is being tested alone and then we are graded as how good we are when really you have to make mistakes in order to learn in the first place It's all to reinforce the same capitalistic traditional ways. And why is it that people are so stuck in tradition and are not willing to look at new design? Because all countries are corrupt today England, France, Germany... All use the same system They're all corrupt

24:13 And those in position of differential advantage, those who were doing well they controlled the movies, the entertainment, the books, the schools, the university. Yes primarily the news and they don't want ideas that will rock the boat or threaten their position in any way Why should the oil companies vote for the electric car? Exactly. It's an odd thing because on this show we always are talking about things generally under the label of conspiracy, but all the big problems of the world and you can find so many people who are willing to say oh we should end the Federal Reserve but when I answer back with we should end capitalism people retract

24:56 very quickly, they get very scared of the idea of getting rid of all it. They just want to fine-tune what we have and is there any way you can suggest to break through to people who really are just afraid? Yes there is a way! The system that we advocate is not communism A lot of people think its communistic It's not Let me tell ya how we differ Communism has armies and navies We don't Communism has prisons, police. We don't! Communism has banks and money. We don't! So we have nothing in common with any existing system." I think the best thing we can do is just get more information out there in the forms of movies videos radio interviews like you're doing to expose this direction and ease people's fears

25:54 They've never been exposed to anything other than communism, socialism free enterprise system and for fascism. And they don't even know what that is when you boil it down if they proclaim that you're a communist and you bring them put them to test and ask them how why? You know what part of this is communism? They really don't know. They've just been given a fear word So they really know very little. It's a huge job and most people want to know what's in it for me, so it will take unfortunately because they're not educated emotionally or intellectually about what's happening around them. It will take losing their jobs, losing confidence in the government or losing their homes before they look around say this isn't working we want something else

26:45 You mentioned a society without police, and that's something I've always tried to work out in my head because I've never had a positive interaction with the police officer. And when I bring this up to people they say well what do you want? Just chaos in the streets? You gotta have police! So how does The Venus Project handle crime? We make things available for people Everybody can access anything they want just like a public library With a public library you don't have to pay anything. If you had all things accessible, all things that people need, accessible without charge without debt, without servitude You have no basis of crime There'd be no crime if people had the access! If you don't understand that if orange trees grew all over the world you couldn't sell oranges

27:44 If you make things available to people, they do not steal. It's a great point! That's something I say when I see someone go to jail... ...I say if we could make a standard of living that was better than going to jail no one would go but these people- A lot of people who are going to prison don't really see it as a punishment because now they have a roof over their head and food which they couldn't have previously They only learn how to become better criminals Jail is the worst thing you can do to a human being You can educate them out of the system that they've been learned in this system. People are made by the culture they live in, if you don't understand that... If you were born in Australia, you might say, how are ya mate?

28:31 And if you're brought up in the south, the uneducated region of the south. You might say I'm gonna get me a nigger and kick his ass where do you get that from? The environment! You're not born that way." I agree and it seems like you've done so much work on society's problems what which of these problems have you found most difficult to work out are there any all the established points of view They're in the brains of people. They've been put there for over the years, of misinformation! Our schools do not teach you how to think they teach you become a cog in the wheel how to fit-in with the system. Psychologists today try to adjust you to fit-in with the system that isn't psychology that's controlled behavior

29:25 What you need is behavioral science that shows the conditions that make a serial killer, that make them criminal. Criminals are made by the culture they live in. It's an act of genes. You don't have criminal genes. Today they're looking for the Republican gene or the gay gene. Yeah I agree But let me, because I love the Venus Project and I want to be able to make a better case for it in my life when i'm talking to people and educating people. Let me ask you to address some of the issues that people bring up to me in arguments that I just can't really answer back to. One recently was what if 10 million people... we're talking about a global society now What if ten million people want to go live in San Francisco now that is not the most expensive place in the country?

30:20 Well, you know they say that all the time about Florida also. But it's not true that everybody wants to come to Florida people like different seasons. You know they like this ski and they liked many things about the weather up north too so its really not viable statement that they would do that and when you make... People would be free to move around as well and work in different areas But when you make certain things available like cities in the sea or every area a very nice place to live, places where people are working and engaged in things. It's not like that they want to go just frivolously and go to another area that might not suit their needs even though the weather might be nice. I just think that sounds so great to have the freedom to travel

31:17 Because that's one of the great things working in the underclass, of the current capitalist system. There is no vacations you can't just pack up and move You know? You have leases, your tied down to where your at Your forced to keep doing by contract the same thing day after day And to replace that with a system where you can actually travel with your friends, you're not tied down in any home anywhere. You can kind of move around the planet and explore your own self! It sounds amazing to me Here's another criticism that I've gotten back is that people say if every need was provided for... ...you wouldn't find individuals educating themselves they'd just be lazy How do yo address that?

32:01 Do you know any place on earth where people can do anything they want to do? There is no such place. They're speculating! No, he's saying that if everybody has their needs wouldn't people just become lazy? No, that's false because you've never had that experience You know kids are... If you get them when they're young they're real inquisitive They are always doing things And if people are healthy as they get older, they remain active and they want to participate in things. What really kills inquisitiveness and the drive to participate is a 9-5 job that gives you minimum wage that you don't like

32:52 You're so stressed out in this culture today that you think that's the way people are, that they just want to get away from work and do nothing. But if you had access to anything you want, to be able to learn anything you want—to go out in boats or fly, learn how to fly, or learn biology or medicine or how the weather behaves and start To manipulate things so you can create better weather. If you get into things that are so interesting, that they drive you to want to work... You know people today when they lose their jobs sometimes they go and volunteer even though they have no money

33:34 Over the last hundreds of years, people have always given you things not because there's money put in their bank account like Martin Luther King didn't march because he had money put in his bank account. He did it because he believed in what he was doing and when people have the ability to participate in things and they see that what they're working on benefits your lifestyle and their lifestyle I could pretty well assure you that people would be doing that They wouldn't be sitting around doing nothing. They would be ill if that was the case." It seems like you're describing laziness, or defining laziness as just a rejection of the current structure which I don't disagree with...that's a pretty fair analysis? Yes. It is a by-product of the inefficiencies in this culture

34:26 And that's true with drugs too and alcohol. They just want to dull you down, or a lot of times people don't have the tools to say the things that they want to say to people around them in a way that would be acceptable and so they drink and then they can blurt out anything they wanna say, you know? So if life was so interesting drugs or alcohol would dull you down too much to do the things you wanna do Don't forget you can go to school and study anything you want to without a price tag. You don't have to pay money to become a doctor or lawyer, you can go any school you want to free of charge." That sounds amazing! Now how would you reach people who are I would say brainwashed to the point that they're convinced that they like their job and things aren't that bad? How do you reach those people? Well Hitler was able to convince people because they were not educated

35:26 to start with. We have a lot of people in the United States that can't read or write, I think it's 20 thousand or more and uh... i think as long you have that your going to have problems You'll have be able get the people and you can do that cause the newspapers, the newsreels your media, your motion pictures are all about this system only two movies that I know of, that were made against war. All Quiet in the Western Front and thousands of movies made pro-war. Soldiers are killing machines and we would have no soldiers, no armies, no navies We would train soldiers send them back to school to become problem solvers. We had a lot of unresolved problems And that's what we need not killing machines

36:25 I totally agree. And another question that I get faced with is, when we have machines making everything from clothing to cars to musical instruments how do we maintain customization which people have come to value? Because you gotta remember that the Iceman doesn't exist anymore There used to be a person who brought ice into your icebox With the invention of the refrigerator it did away with the Iceman There used to be ladies operating elevators. They would turn the crank to move the elevator up or down, they're gone today! There's no such thing as an elevator operator. They're automatic. They stop at whatever button you press so a lot of jobs will be phased out In the future there'll be no lawyers, no businessmen, no bankers

37:24 No armies, no navies. No prisons and no police because people have access to what they want you don't need police." You know it's really an illusion of choice that you think you have free choice around here and it's customized like you can go the store pick out anything you want for your kitchen but I guarantee you that thing that you're picking out is made to wear out and break down so If you want a society that creates abundance and gives everyone a high standard of living, you don't want to make 300 objects that do the same thing as a wrench because each company has to compete against another company. You might want five different things like that instrument that acts as a wrench that's very very high quality that won't wear out and will work for you so

38:21 This illusion of choice is really in the marketplace to be able to sell more things. What about homes? Will people have any choice in the type of home or housing that they're in? Absolutely, if they don't live in a kind of house they like, the system won't work That's true! How do you accommodate everybody's preference You design the houses, but let them furnish the insides. Whatever they want." Well that gets into the customization issue. If I want a red couch but my city only provides black couches...

39:12 has thousands of little glass beads. And by shooting light at a different angle through the beads, you can change the color to red, blue, green... whatever you want! That is fascinating. Yes, and not only that but you have zone cooling in the house instead of air conditioning the whole building in the area your seated it's one temperature area another person seated there's another temperature It's called zoned heating, zoned cooling so you can have maximum expression of individuality not uniformity

39:54 Here's another question. Every city in America now is a filthy mess, but without having assigned cleaning people how can we maintain the cleanliness that is presented in your models? Okay...in other words you have places where you put plastic, you have places where you put garbage, a chute and it goes down to the bottom of the city If it's not a renewable resource, you can pump it down underground 1.000 feet underground where is very hot and that changes the chemistry of the product so you can use them for fertilizer We have no waste products that we dump into the oceans. We don't dump stuff in landfills.

40:41 sprays on plants to protect, to keep the insects off. We use high-pitched sound and that keeps certain insects away from plants. Certain insects are good for plants so we don't want keep all insects away from plants. We just don't want to use poisons, that's all." You can make things self-cleaning even today in France on the streets they have public bathrooms where you go in I think you pay a little something or maybe it is free in some instances but when you walk out the whole thing is cleaned automatically and sanitized before the next person comes in. And this has been in France for years

41:24 It just hasn't come to this country yet. You know, when you go to scientists and ask them to do certain things like go to the moon or make mass transport they come up with it! They can do that. You go to philosophers or religious people they can't build that So we've never gone to scientists and give them the problems of the things that you're talking about. How to make things self-cleaning, how to make a city that's clean efficient redundant very pleasant for people to live in transportation that doesn't crash

42:02 how you eliminate automobiles because they're terrible for people. What kind of transportation do you make instead of that? They don't give scientists those questions, they give scientists... Scientists today are really abused and are prostitutes in the system. They give scientist projects how to compete with another person, another industry. How to make machinery that would compete faster and then patent it for one industry over the other industry even though you're making the same product? You don't all combine and make for instance the best car everybody has their own little patents to try and beat the other person

42:45 So you're really prostituting scientists today. They make weapons of destruction and war, that's some of the biggest industries for science to go into so we're abusing science that's not real science it's corrupted We haven't given scientists the real problems, the real questions and that's where The Venus Project would use the methods of science for the benefit of people and the protection of the environment. Years ago I was told that some people are good, some are bad some are lazy, some are hard-working none of those things are true if you reward behavior you can perpetuate it for example, I wanted to know whether the male's behavior toward a female is learned or is it inborn? So I went to the South Sea Islands

43:42 where all the natives wore no clothing. This is in the tropics, they wore no clothing at all and there were no peeping toms on the island nobody collected pictures of nude women because the men and boys...the boys and girls when they were children was swimming nude and they never wore clothing so that didn't generate fetishes or peeping toms Do you understand what I'm saying? I do, and that brings up another interesting point is jealousy. If you can imagine a scenario where a man catches his wife cheating and comes in and slits their throats how do you solve that? How do you handle that? First of all there's no marriage in the future You move in with the person you get along with And if you don't get along you move out. You don't have to pay a lawyer

44:39 There's nobody pronounces you man and wife. Who the hell is that guy with a white collar, who says I pronounce you man and wife? Where did he come from?" You don't own your partner either And you understand in the future there are many people that can meet different needs. You're not alone and isolated and just have one person that can meet certain needs And if you walked in and you found your partner with somebody else in bed, you might say honey how much longer will you be? Then you talk to them after. Say where is it that I'm not meeting your needs? You'd have a very different orientation than what they have today

45:21 Women are looked at as a property of man. There's no private property in the new enterprise system that we advocate The Venus Project has no ownership, you don't own anything anymore The whole earth belongs to all people and we catered to their needs there is no politics That dynamic is so foreign that it really is hard to conceive in some smaller examples and instances.

46:01 And if you were married to somebody and you got along with them maybe about 10 different points, you had similar values and you got along with them. Then later, you met somebody five years later who you really had about 40 points that you got along with and you identified with, you'd automatically like that other person. You might even feel you love them more than your wife or your husband but you would say to your partner oh I like her but I love Even today, as in the future you really love as many people that you meet in your life who are lovable. Who you share values with You can't help it only It would be more understood in the future

46:52 What about, you still have to account for human emotion. I mean are we talking about getting rid of emotion because that's still there? What if someone commits a crime based on that rather than needs financial or economic needs someone... That's without the Venus Projects control The Venus Project administers education It teaches children how to solve problems and it gives them the methods of thinking their way through a problem. They're taught, just like an auto mechanic is taught how to service a Volkswagen or Mercedes they have to be taught, and people have to be taught how to live not depend on what you call intuitive feelings

47:41 Jealousy is learned. Bigotry is learned, you're not born with those qualities. If you don't understand that if you have two children and you treat one child as a favorite you manufacture jealousy in the other child it's you doing that only parents don't realize that when parents say you're a Catholic You don't play with that Lutheran boy. Do you understand? I do. Prejudice And this question here I have is really something that has been tough for me when thinking about the Venus Project or how it would work. But last year we saw the Occupy movement, which really was a push towards a new way of doing things and I tried to get involved in the local goings on here in San Diego but the biggest problem was the lack of leadership

48:32 Everyone wanted to operate on consensus, which couldn't even address the simplest problems. It was total gridlock. Help me get over this idea that a leaderless society wouldn't be paralyzed by inaction." You gotta remember that people do not know what to do. Your politicians don't know how to solve problems Don't take my word for it Ask any politician How can you grow more food? I don't know they say How can you prevent war? I don't know. There's always been war, there'll always be war." They just repeat what they see. They really don't know what to do so when you have a strike in Egypt where most of the people rebel against an existing or established system they don't know what to put in its place ask them! Don't take my word for it People don't know what to do

49:32 whereas the Venus Project has blueprints for the buildings, the libraries, the schools, the subject matter taught in schools. Everything that children are taught is based upon physical science not opinions And I agree that people don't know what to do, but that is why it's so hard for me to conceive of a proper transition without some type of leadership. Even the right type of leadership. Look up TheVenusProject.com You can get all kinds of questions and answers on our program It's not so much a leader we're looking for but the direction that we want to go

50:13 and the procedural systems to achieve that direction. And this is what The Venus Project offers, you know when you want to build a bridge, you deal with people who are competent in building that bridge You don't go to the local baker or the plumber so there are people who were more competent and more educated in certain fields and you address those people Right That's true If you want to make a commercial airline pilot, you have to send them to aviation school. If you want to make a medical doctor, just send them to medical school! We have the same thing in The Venus Project. We educate children to learn how to find answers to questions not opinions

50:58 We want to eliminate war, poverty, crime, hunger all the detrimental effects that the monetary system superimposes on people. So you look for the root cause of the system this is what Jacque arrived at when he was very young and people were talking about wanting a better world in the future and they're talking about having peace and harmony and love you know, nice cities. But they don't know how to achieve that. They don't even know what's causing those things in this system and so the work has been done the blueprints have been done The direction has been laid out and if you learn more about the Venus Project You'll understand how it can be achieved And how it can be maintained? What are the steps that you need to achieve it

51:51 and perpetuate it, and what types of values would you be needing to do that as well? So please look up the Venus Project. Right I would encourage anyone to do that because this is such a huge paradigm switch that there's so many little questions that need to be answered-and they've done the work! You guys have definitely done the work If you read the book The Best That Money Can Buy you will learn just how The Venus Project accounts for human values The book is called, The Best That Money Can't Buy Beyond Politics, Poverty and War. Perfect! And can you outline a little bit about the energy system? How would energy be provided if we got rid of the structure we have today? The best source of energy would be geothermal. Inside the earth there's lot of heat and it's replicating. You know, you can't wear it down

52:50 If you dig a deep hole big enough and you pump water down there, it'll be converted to steam. And the steam can turn turbines and it doesn't depend on the weather. Photoelectric cells... if is cloudy, you can't generate much electricity The Venus Project uses geothermal energy-the heat inside the Earth which is constantly replenished so you never run out of it The people who work in that field say that we have enough energy for the next 4,000 years with geothermal for the whole Earth. Wow! We talked a little bit about the ability to travel and how do you handle transportation in The Venus Project? There's trains that go anywhere without a fee so you can get on and go

53:44 There's no fee involved, no tickets. There is no money spent to go the theater or anything. There is no box office. You just walk in and enjoy the movie And one other criticism people have said that you just kind of touched on and reminded me of is they've told me that the Venus Project seems like a sort-of cold, emotionless scientific structure. Where's the room for the arts? I mean do people have so much time...I assume they could just participate in art whenever they want. I think from what I understand science is all humanity Science deals with what to do with different diseases

54:25 So if you study a scientific method of repairing broken bones, it's the best method known. If you look at the scientific methods of good healthy nutrition is it perfect? No! But there are hells lot better than no knowledge of nutrition. You know our problems are really technical They're not political and they're really not artistic in a way, although there'd be lots of room for the arts. You have free art centers music centers anything that you like but the real problems are technical how to get enough food to people how to take care their medical needs how to build bridges transportation systems housing

55:17 You know, all the real needs of people in that way are technical. If you don't understand that your refrigerator your electric light your washing machine these are the things that liberate people not political speeches So, when you think of what is an advanced culture? It's a culture with aviation so you can fly from one place to another. Travel by train from one place to another but we don't want the trains to wear out. The wheels wear out and the axle wears out and the tracks wear out

55:59 So we involved, we invented maglev trains that repel the train off the tracks. There's nothing to wear out it never wears out think about that! And you know they say science is cold but so inaccurate Science heals you when your sick It gives you food if it was done properly not Monsanto food You know? It gives a roof over your head science is so warm and loving that the other way of looking at it is so mixed up. The values are so strange. Jacques always used to tell a story that I liked where

56:43 You have a hill and a precipice, you know steep precipice. And there's a road on the side of that hill and the car goes over the side and the person that attends to that person who got injured in the car comes and holds their hand and says theirs there and tries to comfort them. Then the doctor comes along they're brought to the doctor and the doctor patches them up but the engineer who you don't see at all who they call cold looks at the problem, kind of tilts the road in a way that the car won't fall off puts up grid in the road puts up high railing so you'll never go over and you never have that accident again. But they're considered ones who are cold." That's a great point! That's a great point on people's perception. They have no idea what controls society. They think it is human nature. They think that people are basically selfish

57:45 They are not basically any way in particular. If you were raised as a baby by the headhunters of the Amazon, you would be a headhunter. Do you understand that? Right! If you never traveled or saw anything else and if I said to you doesn't it bother you to have 10 shrunken heads?, You might say yes my brother has 20, that bothers me Are you nuts? No, you're not. You're normal to that culture. In Salem Massachusetts they used to burn witches

58:23 Did you know that? Yes. In America, so when people say give me the good old days I don't know what the hell they're talking about! I face that a lot with people who want to go back to what our forefathers had planned for us and it's a little ridiculous And if you didn't own any land or if you were woman or black You couldn't vote, you'd have no say The forefathers took care of themselves only, the wealthy ones Right. Everybody tries to bring that into the current culture and they really ignore all the problems there really were, and all the inequality there really was. And I would rather look forward than back. And look at what the forefathers perpetuated! Here's the mess we're in now…

59:09 Exactly, that's a great point. Now when I tweeted to people we were going to be doing this show and asked everyone what they'd like me to ask you and they all pretty much boiled down to varying degrees of the same thing which is what can i do to push this forward? And of course we talked about education but outside of education is there anything concrete that people can really do to push this forward? Yes, go to our website under get involved And I would say check it in the next couple months because we're renovating all of that. We're redoing our different groups that are working on different projects, we have several projects going now. All over the world? Yeah, we have people all over the world and we're going to be posting anybody who wants

59:52 involved any place in the world will be posted on the map, on the website so people can get in touch with one another. We have lots of materials that they can use to help spread the word and if they want to go from being a supporter or just want to go out into the streets and talk about it all through doing different projects we have a Corsan project going on, we have marketing people, lawyers that are helping any way people want to help. We have over 4,000 people who have signed up on our professional database we're working on a business proposal now for

1:00:30 a first city project and that will be introduced more so as we roll that out. So, we need lots of help with that starting with the research center and going on to a university or educational center of about 1,000 people within the first eighth of the city where you have plans to build that up if we don't get any main support financially for that from outside, we're gonna do it ourselves We just have a lot going on. Check the website, but as I say we're rolling out a new website within a couple months and there'll be a lot more on it to get involved with

1:01:07 That would be amazing because I know so many people that really are frustrated with their 9-to-5 job and they just feel like they're completely trapped. And, I think that if there was a place where they could go where the Venus Project was trying to put forth their model...I think I know a lot of people who would pack their bags and show up on your doorstep ready to work Well we have lots of people working all over the world in different places So um..and were doing it collaboratively over the internet Can you tell us at all where you're planning to put this city? We don't know yet. We're open, we're talking about someplace outside of the United States because it is so hard to get here, get into the states, get papers to get into the states for some people So we are looking at a couple other locations but nothing is definite yet You know I recently saw that headline that protests in Bulgaria got so bad that the government officially resigned Should we all just pack our bags and set up shop?

1:02:06 In Bulgaria, that's interesting because we have a very good chapter in Bulgaria. I think their government has collapsed. I think they might be looking for someone to take the helm Geez, that's wonderful. That is such an odd reaction to a government collapse I love it but to the average person like oh that's wonderful! But is this a problem if they have nothing else to put in its place? Well true We have you know if you look up TheVenusProject.com we have books videotapes on all the different questions people ask so please look us up

1:02:44 Yes, we have a lot of things going on the internet. We have things that you can purchase books and videos and that help support the project. We also have just a wealth of information that we have for free on the internet lots of free ebooks. We have the YouTube channel there's lots of lectures on there on different topics There's a lot of information. We have an interesting, one of the people in the chapter in Turkey just made a website called Ask Jacques where there are different questions in audio and video and text form about The Venus Project

1:03:22 Wow. I mean you guys have done a huge amount of work looking into so many problems and everything, is there any aspects of human behavior that you haven't sorted out yet or any problems that you haven't fully worked out yet? Well we want to do a motion picture about life in the Venus Project How it would look, what would people do if machines do all the work? How would they spend their time. We want to make a movie and if we think that we can make a movie in different languages and run it all over the world, we could get bigger following fast." Yes I do think people need to see that. The biggest thing that's helped you guys so far is the movies you have put out and the video content you have put out

1:04:10 Yes, I think so. How is the progress of that movie going? Well we're still working on the manuscript The manuscripts are very important that people understand it not project their own values into it And we've made some very good contacts along the way too So um It's developing in many different areas and We also...We haven't really rolled this out yet to talk about it But I will mention Um..It's in the works I hope it continues We're working with a animation group who will be putting something out on the internet every month, a half hour in life and resource-based economy. So there'll be more to learn about that as we really announce it more so

1:04:56 Nice, that's excellent. And you guys are still doing tours of the grounds in Venus Florida? Yes thank you we have tours it's more like a seminar Jacques speaks for about four hours I take people around the grounds and show them hundreds of models that we have here It is kind of an intimate setting they come for 4-5 hours here and they can ask whatever questions as well Excellent. It gets pretty heated, the conversation sometimes. Every Saturday at 1 o'clock! That's right. That's great I definitely plan on taking that trip in the next couple of months you know it's something that super important to me i'm just so frustrated with the situation I'm and when I go to work and ideal with other co-workers and customers who don't see these things even more frustrating feels like The Twilight Zone Yes, I agree with you

1:05:48 That's what keeps us working so hard because we are afraid of the values that are perpetuated out there. Agreed, and I feel like i'm part of the problem when i'm stuck in my job you know? I'm part of these financial transactions that I don't care about because I need to keep a roof over my head Well... We look at it as if were all prostitutes in this system You have to do that unless you decide you want to live under a bridge somewhere Yeah..I agree Well Jacques, Roxanne it's I'm such a fan of your guys' work and ideas. There is nothing more than to see this come to fruition. I think you're a social engineering Einstein. I hope you feel like your work hasn't been in vain and I hope this is going to work out before we blow ourselves up It will! It has too We don't want to kill anybody or hurt anybody Or condemn anybody or any nationality or race

1:06:41 We're non-racist, we're open to all people throughout the world. And one thing people always think well we need to convert everybody to you know understand this method of social design You really don't! You just need a few of the right people so you know we couldn't do it without you putting these ideas out there I feel like All audience building I've done up to this point has really just been there to perpetuate a solution rather than talking only about the problem. So, this...I'm humbled and proud to be part of the contribution to that education so thank you!

1:07:21 Thank you for all your effort. We deeply appreciate that. That's right, thanks! Alright well that pretty much does it for this episode. Conversing with you is something I'll be proud of having the chance to do for the rest of my life. I'd change the name to The Venus Project Chats if i could do this every week but...I'm hoping to meet you both in person in Venus Florida and take that tour so its been quite amazing from me Best of luck guys stay healthy Thanks can't wait to meet ya here Alrighty thanks again And thanks Jack Adios, man. I'm so happy with that talk. I mean Jacques Fresco really is the pimp of pimps Maybe you are you know we're all prostitutes somebody's got to be the pimp But is there anything that stuck out to you? You know the guy he's just been doing this for so long and it's just a real visionary And I mean you were asking him does he have any questions He hasn't fully worked out and he seems pretty comfortable. I would say with his like

1:08:18 answers to pretty much everything. Right, and I mean there is such a challenge though the man is 97 years old he's still spry you know what's The Venus Project going to look like in 10 years? It's not something that I want to bring up to somebody who's 97 years old who's really trying to do everything they can do but it is kind of a morbid question and hope we get there Well, his dedication to visualizing the idea I think sprouts that idea in many other people. And whether it's called The Venus Project ten years from now or whether an actual very similar version of it springs up somewhere else first...I think he really is changing the evolution of ideas about what we can do as a society. Well, it ties into the piece you just wrote on THC.com but

1:09:10 It's kind of, it's very isolating. For him it must be incredibly isolating I can only imagine like in the 60s 70s and 80s before anyone gave a shit how isolating they could-it must have been. I love those old interviews where he's a young guy compared to...I mean I wasn't even born And I'm watching videos of him in the past talking about this same stuff. Then, I go through this whole growth process and go into my own awakening and now here we are talking to him...and it's just amazing! He is the number one guy that i would want to interview there's no one else

1:09:47 And that's mainly because there is no one else out there really talking about solutions. That's the thing, we can identify the problems and keep trying to dig deeper and deeper into where are the connections? Who did what? What is the real motivation behind this media story? In a way they have got us on just a different hamster wheel Yeah and to me he has had the big revelation that what we're living on as a whole society based on scarcity, scarcity of everything. And he's gonna replace it with abundance, abundance of everything and it's just such a polar opposite I think people just can't even...it just jogs your whole paradigm to such a degree you just can't even entertain the idea you're just like I don't even know what that means

1:10:35 Yeah, and that's an important point to make because so many people think that well we just don't have the resources to get food everyone or we would. And that's programming. That to me is complete brainwashing. Obviously Jacque Fresco would agree. It was a cool tie-in into the last episode too when were talking about agriculture. The whole idea that agriculture destroys the topsoil. We're going to have no top soil left All of this is bad design and jock is all about good design. And it's in good design is based off observation, and so you gotta look at all the shitty ways we're doing things and then just really actually designed something different and say hey no guys we have to do fucking everything different now because this is what we've learned that's what we've observed from the bad ways are doing things right we have had the same problems our whole life

1:11:32 War, poverty, lack of resources. I mean we got a homeless guy begging for food outside of the grocery store while they're throwing food in a locked dumpster out back! This is the design that we currently have but I still maintain that the hardest part for me to wrap my head around and the biggest question mark in my mind is leadership. The Occupy movement was a piece of shit because there was no leadership Say what you will, I loved it. I wanted to be a part of it but when you get down to it we're standing here with a big group of people tents everywhere and there's one group that says hey I want to support this but I have to work at 8 o'clock in the morning can we have quiet hours? Somebody else says no! We can't

1:12:16 Then there's a problem with no solution because guy A needs quiet, guy B won't be quiet. Without police without some type of system How do you enforce that? I mean Jacques answer would be education But Jesus Christ what if the guy just rejects that we were assholes when we were 16 years old! I can say I rejected the system Because of its corruption and because I didn't find a place in it but maybe there's just something in Pre-pubescent kids when they're starting to grow into themselves that they just want to smash some fucking windows You know, how do you stop a kid from running around smashing windows? When there's no police or consequence. Um I just personally kind of disagree about police Because the whole enforcement and punishment based thing I think fails at preventing it as well. You're asking How do we prevent it will cops don't prevented either they just come in and

1:13:12 Punish. Great point! You know, I really don't know how things would be so different in a system where we didn't feel the scarcity or we didn't feel like we were just being ripped off and sold everything and programmed with the worst kind of TV and commercial bullshit our whole lives It might be different. Maybe we wouldn't be so aggressive, but I do think that what Jacques and Roxanne are going to stand by is We can make the best design possible. We can educate people the best as possible If people despite all of this wealth that they're being given Are still gonna have psychotic breaks and do crazy shit That can't be prevented And cops can't prevent that and nobody can prevent that it's just The school shootings Can't be prevented

1:14:02 Right. That's not a reason to not... The unknown is unknown! Right, and that's not a reason to try to make things better you know? Yeah don't let that immobilize you because you can actually know the unknown. The future is unpredictable and people are scared to death of that but you have to come to terms with it The idea that we actually know what's coming tomorrow is an illusion anyways. Amen, well I'm just...I really like that one thing Jacques used to say when he was talking about jealousy as he gave this little anecdote about talking to a behavioral scientist and said hey you can't fix jealousy and he's like well what is jealousy? And the guy says when I pet my cat the dog gets jealous

1:14:47 And Jock's like, alright well let me see these animals. And he started giving the dog a treat every time he pet the cat so after a couple of days when when he picked up the cat to be petted the dog was happiest it has been all day you know rather than being jealous if not getting attention and he basically says is its economics you know is just economics its proper incentives that's all we really are is just Dogs chasing cars, you know give us the right car to chase and then things might get done the right way. I just-I love how aggressive

1:15:28 bold his statements are about police military governments just it's all bullshit you know patriotism that's a disease one of my favorite Jacque Fresco quotes hey well I hope we talk a lot about capitalism on this show especially in the past month and i hope it's not getting too redundant, but when I look at the pyramid when I look at the giant conspiracy this is where the root of the problem is. We got a lot of people hacking it branches and not a lot of people hacking that the root and I think that's scary to a lot of people you know just say that The answer is so large that it has to change our entire structure in every possible way hmm That's tough. That's scary But you know we're not gonna fix

1:16:17 We're not going to fix our society by getting rid of chemtrails or finding out what happened at 9-11. I mean, those are just such small questions You know the Great Depression That was a great opportunity to say this system doesn't work But that's not what we said. We said sign us up for more It's the hard truth right there you know i've supported these ideas through several my t-shirt designs and conspiraties net with the quit your job shirt and the corporate sheep shirt and My proudest design, the What's After Capitalism shirt. And I feel so good when someone picks that up because I feel like it's really promoting the change I want to see so check them out if you're in San Diego actually conspiraties are now available at a great little conspiracy bookstore called The Book Tree of Normal Heights tell them i sent you down but yeah I gotta thank Jacques and Roxanne again and Kyle people please share this episode particularly if you think it's important let's plant those seeds. Kyle any last words? Let's fucking do something new

1:17:15 Amen man. Alright, I'll see you guys next week! Imagine there's no hell It's easy if you try Above us lonely sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no country And hard to Nothing to kill or die for

1:18:24 And no religion to imagine on You may say that I'm a dreamer But i'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will live as one Imagine more possession I wonder if you can

1:19:43 Imagine all the people that ring on you. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Come and join us so we'll live as one. As one