THC 29: Paul Serup | The Lincoln Assassination & the Catholic Church

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. But what 30 and I do are different kind of far. For a new era of worldly freshness we offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Kurls on The Fireside Chat Hello again higher side chatters and thank you for choosing THC as a medicine to help relieve you for the next hour of the perpetual stress and frustration that is The American Society Of 2012. And when your all cut up on cupcake wars, Higher Side Chats is here to pick ya up dust ya off and say hey man why don't we just drink a little drink smoke a little smoke talk about something thats not being rammed down our throats and that's what were gonna do

00:55 Folks, my guest today deserves some serious respect because he spent nearly three decades researching and investigating the claim that the Catholic Church was behind the assassination of President Lincoln almost 150 years ago. He's presented a very thorough and detailed investigation in his fascinating book Who Killed Abraham Lincoln? Prepare to be lathered in the sweet, maverick goodness of today's guest Paul Syrup. Paul how are you? Very well thanks! How are you? I'm great, you know thanks for being here. I love conspiracies and i've always had a real curiosity with stories and accounts of the dark side of the Catholic Church so your book really struck a certain chord with me

01:32 But something I want people to understand is just how much work you really did on this. The book is full of sources and copies of official documents and handwritten letters, in fact the book comes with a CD of thousands of documents! This is more than just a hunch Paul, how'd you get started on this subject? And how much work have you put into it? Oh, well I didn't realize it at the time. I just read Charles Chinake's book, 50 Years in the Church of Rome and I believe that it was in the spring of 1986 and I was so surprised by what he said that I just became very curious about him and I started

02:15 to research. I wrote a few letters and then got some replies back, and that's what started me. I just wanted to know who this man was and what sort of credibility he had. And I had no plans on doing anything when I started out. Man, that's so interesting. Let's talk about this priest Charles Chinake He was a friend of Lincoln and the first to publicly accuse the Catholic Church for his murder And in his day he was immensely popular with the people but he wasn't big on blindly following authority which bruised some amigos in the Catholic hierarchy But where did his break from the Catholic Authority start?

03:00 He said in his autobiography that he grew up in Quebec and learned the Bible at his mother's side. He very much enjoyed reading the Bible, but then his father died and ended up under the care of an uncle who decided to study for priesthood. As he studied for priesthood His independent thought and his knowledge of the Bible made him question things that he learned, he was taught. He had problems with things like obeying what his superiors told him regardless of what they told him and things like celibacy

03:50 and things like that, but he still wanted to be a priest so he took his vows. But he still had this independent thought and that's what continued with him. He persuaded roughly half of Christians Quebec in the mid-19th century to give up drinking, he became concerned about the effects of alcohol for individuals and society in general. He established a temperance society and was tremendously successful. His portrait is in most of the households in Quebec for his work that he did.

04:35 recognized for that. Then he ended up down in Chicago, invited by the Bishop of Chicago and then he had a very public clash with a different bishop of Chicago which was well covered by the Chicago press. I believe the Chicago Tribune reported on him about a hundred times and that actually resulted in that bishop being summoned to Rome and removed as the Bishop of Chicago. Wow, yeah! That just shows like they kind of influence he had. He was immensely popular guy

05:16 And you know, one of my favorite things that Chinake says about his problems with the priesthood was when he was training in his college years. He said that instead of stimulating the pupils' intelligence Roman Catholic education institutions tried to prove that each student's own intellect was actually his greatest enemy and I think that is so true but why would someone so wise to be authoritarian brainwashing in the church continue to be a member of such an organization for so long? That's a very, very good question. And you can ask that... I mean this church's teachings haven't really changed and you have very intelligent people even deciding that is what they want to be under. So that is a good question and it has a hold on people. It's tremendous in Quebec most

06:10 Quebecers don't go to church. I believe in the 50s and 60s, 90% of them would go to church and now it's more like 15%, but they have no plans on changing their religious affiliation so it's quite quite an interesting thing why that is. Yeah, it is definitely a weird thing I grew up in the Midwest where its definitely prevalent and never did really click with me but you know let's fast forward to the conflict that put Charles Chinakey in court with the Bishop of Chicago It also brought him and Abe Lincoln together

06:58 It wasn't actually the bishop. Chinake said that it was a prominent Catholic, Peter Sink, who the bishop used. Certainly, Chinake's biographer Richard Lohede out of Quebec and an academic from Montreal said that there are very strong points to show that Chinake was correct. The bishop was behind the prosecution. stood up for the French in Chicago. The reason he went there was because a lot of French Canadians were leaving Quebec and going to the United States, and they were going to larger urban centers where they were losing their religion, not concerning the Catholic Church.

07:58 asked Chinake to come down and establish a French-Canadian Catholic colony south of Chicago, which he did. But for some reason this bishop... He was invited by the second Bishop of Chicago, Vandervelde but then his succeeding bishop Anthony O'Regan an Irishman seemed to have a real problem with the French and with other Germans, and essentially took the French's church away from them, the building, and rented it to Irish Catholics. Charles Sineke was willing to stand up for him.

08:42 And actually it drew the attention across the United States that this bishop was being, uh... This priest was standing up to this bishop and refusing to back down from him. So the bishop said I would give anything to the person who would get rid of this Chinookay, who causes me more problems than all the other priests combined. You know what Jesus did right? Well, exactly. Yeah good question. It seems more like just a secret society of people who are power hungry that don't really believe what they're teaching. But you know one question I had, which you bring up that quote from him is that instead of dragging Chinake through dozens of court battles for so long and bringing up 70 false witnesses most of them priests why go through all this publicly when we could just kill him early on?

09:40 He was still a Catholic priest. He had friends in the Catholic Church people that he still looked up to and I think it was very late in the game. He left the Catholic Church in 1858, but the court battles that Lincoln took part were in 1856.

10:15 Right up to pretty late in the game, as far as him being part of the Catholic Church, he still had people that he was friends with and the people like that. So maybe the church wasn't thinking about that yet, or this organization wasn't thinking about that yet but certainly he reports after that there were many attempts on his life

10:55 And we should say that during these court cases, Abraham Lincoln was his lawyer. That's kind of what brought them together and apparently they developed a pretty rich friendship wouldn't you say? I would say very much so. I would say that there is strong evidence that Charles Sineke was Abraham Lincoln's best friend which is pretty amazing when you consider a towering figure Abraham Lincoln was and is. Because Chinake had left the Catholic Church and he had been there, Lincoln wanted to know about the influence of the Catholic Church in the Civil War. So he consulted with Chinake about what was really going on and what things meant. The letter of the Pope to Jeff Davis.

11:52 A lot of people aren't aware of this stuff and it appears to be continued to be carefully suppressed. It appears to me to be censorship. I was going to ask you if you've run into that because, there's a lot of corruption that goes on and a lot of things are buried and redacted and we're dealing with something that is about 150 years old. A lot of the information even if it hasn't been burned or destroyed is probably heavily guarded. Did you ran into a few roadblocks then?

12:28 It's been more after the book was published. My own family didn't know what I was doing actually, most of them. I guess they kept it fairly close as a few people did and it made my life a little simpler for me. People thought that I had a girlfriend in Chicago because I was down there all the time but I was doing this research. I don't know that I found too much difficulty before, but afterward now that the book is out there seems to be some real heavy censorship. Charles Sineke was a major Chicago figure. The Chicago Tribune put the notice of his 80th birthday on the front page and why did they do that?

13:26 There's somebody who doesn't matter at all. How many Chicago figures have gone on to become world famous? I think there are a very small handful that you could say that yet The Chicago Public Library has no books by or about him and there's no plans to change. The Chicago Tribune, this is their own history which they apparently have... it appears to me that they're suppressing their own history to make sure they don't offend this organization Because they're not interested in what I found.

14:08 I've run into other instances where in Canada, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation according to Richard Lohede and the 2009 biography of Chinakey. Chinakey is still Canada's most successful author of all time yet Canada's national broadcaster has never mentioned his name on a national or provincial broadcast as far as I understand and have no plans of changing that. That's a curious thing. You know, it makes you to me that validates the information Yeah, I know and there's other instances that Like you say it all seems to fit together Well now as Chinook is lawyer Lincoln clearly got on the bad side of some people in the church hierarchy But was there their?

14:57 Obviously, there was a bigger motivation in plotting to kill the president than to settle an old grudge. But your book points out several entrances of the church back in the South and the Civil War in secret but what was their motivation for doing that? Well, I would advance the same argument that Chinake does. The Catholic Church believes that ultimately it's the church of God—you know, the god who created everything and as such they make a leap to the church should rule the world and so power should

15:36 The Pope, certainly at the time of the Civil War and it was published in New York Times, publicly railed against things like freedom of religion and freedom of speech and democracy. Therefore, as a result I believe the only important democracy in the world at that time, certainly the foremost democratic nation in the world provided a threat to this institution.

16:16 that, again I suggest believes that in the divine right of kings and then the church setting up the Kings therefore really controlling things. Let's talk about that letter you mentioned from from the Pope to Jefferson Davis That was a really telling document I believe so, and here is this Pope writing a letter to Jeff Davis calling him the President of the Confederate States of America instead of the man leading a massive rebellion against the US nation that was causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of America's finest young men.

16:58 And yeah, that's what he did. And Chinake said that it was a recognition of the Southern Confederacy by this European power, by the Vatican, and by the Roman Catholic Church and that it was an arrow also aimed right at Abraham Lincoln saying that he was fighting against the nation that the Pope Yeah, I mean it seems like the assassination as a civil war was coming to a close was kind of a last ditch effort to throw the country back into chaos. But how do you think that church really would have benefited if the South would have won the Civil War or had all four of their planned assassinations been successful?

17:46 If the four plan of fascinations had been successful, it would have certainly thrown the United States government into chaos. That was the President, the Vice President, Secretary of State Seward and the head of Union Army which was General Grant. They were slated for assassination, but they were not killed. Many people don't know that he was almost killed. He had a brace from a carriage accident around his neck which I believe saved him from being stabbed to death by another member of Booth's group.

18:38 It was a lofty goal, but you know had it been successful do you think that. the country would have gone back into chaos and the war might have turned? I mean, it seemed like it was pretty much over at that point. Yeah you would think so um...it's hard to know whether it would've succeeded but uh...I guess the people that were attempting must believe it was worthwhile Like you say, it was pretty much a last-ditch attempt although the Civil War wasn't over until the next month and there were still actions by Confederate forces even through that summer. It's hard to tell what

19:33 You know what? What would have happened or but they seem to think that that there was a chance still right Well, let me kind of switch gears on you There's a large part of the conspiracy community That claims Lincoln was killed by bankers because he was planning to usher in a new non debt-based currency Which seems to be historically the number one cause of political assassinations But as you have you come across that opinion at all in your research. Mmm well not too much i don't know what this the points would be that way favor dot uh... i don't know how booth will be linked to some banking and group of people who can link to from banking organization yet seems to be just kind of a general arm thought i hadn't heard too much about him in the motivation is there obviously keep control over the currency and and that kinda thing happens but i guess from your research there's no

20:31 There's no link for John Wilkes Booth to the banking industry or banking cartel, but it is clear that there is a link to the Catholic Church. Correct? Yes, most if not all of the conspirators were Catholic including Booth. And that was at a time where that wasn't quite so normal as it is today? Well no well there shouldn't have been any involved in that right and or any quote Christian church but they were over-represented some six times something like that I mean

21:07 amount of Catholics in the United States at that time, and in Washington was about 11 percent. And yet a majority of them were Catholics and as I say they certainly dominated by Catholics and they may all have been Catholics because we sort of found out relatively late the proof that Booth was a Catholic There's very strong evidence for that. The news of Lincoln and Seward's murder is talked about in Minnesota, far removed from Washington. What did Booth and the company have to do with that? Well, Tineke pointed out that was a place where there was a very large institution for training Roman Catholic priests out there and this news

22:00 That's how that got out there, and hours before the events happened their murders were spoken about. And then you have the fact that The person who headed the official US investigation into Lincoln's murder, Secretary of War Edwin Stanton believed that his murder was a result of Catholic plot and thatís pretty hard to get around. If you look at the murder of John F. Kennedy, whenever there's a report and people questioning whether the single gunman theory or account is correct they always mention the Warren Commission. What it concluded was that the Warren Commission was an official U.S. government investigation into his murder so yes I believe there is very strong

22:59 essentially a circumstantial evidence that indeed the Jesuits were behind it. Yeah, I mean you mentioned this which to me is one of the most interesting bits of evidence in the book is the account of Reverend Francis Conwell because it's a classic flip-up situation and you'll see this in the details of a lot of conspiracies actually 9 11 most notably that certain channels seem to be reporting the news of a tragedy faster than should be possible and The Lincoln assassination is no different. Tell us kind of what happened with Francis Conwell

23:37 Well, Chinake met him in Chicago. When his friend was murdered and he had warned Lincoln to be on guard against assassination attempts by the Jesuits so when his friend was murdered, he started some investigation which he spent 20 years doing published 20 years after Lincoln's assassination in 1885 He met Francis Conwell in Chicago and Conwell told him that the day of the murder he was in the village of St. Joseph, Minnesota at about six o'clock in that afternoon. He was told by a Roman Catholic who was supplying this institution there, this

24:26 sort of a seminary monastery, I believe that Secretary of State Seward and President Lincoln had been killed. And it was also told... That information was pulled in the company of another man named Bennett and at the time there were no railroad lines closer than 40 miles and no telegraph office closer than 80 miles. Right so there's no way that information should have gotten there? no, no way unless You know it came another other way that you know that's not was my thought because even the next day He goes to st. Cloud and he asks the hotel manager. He asked people he says hey have you guys heard about? Lincoln being killed and they're like no we haven't even heard about it the next day And then just that shows you how slow information traveled at that time But it is pretty damning evidence That you know

25:24 the Roman Catholics seem to have this channel of information a little faster, and that would seem pretty normal if you were concerned about your plot being successful. Yeah yeah and it was... I've looked into it and this was St Joseph which was essentially 100% Catholic village out there in Minnesota As you say, what is that information doing out there? Chinake got affidavits from all the people responsible. They're down in black and white in their own words which I have most of them reproduced in the book.

26:10 They are held in the Chinike collection in Ontario, Canada. But he got it down to black and white from these people sworn before a notary public what their experience was and the person who gave them that information, a Catholic, He refused to make a statement down the block and he claimed that he couldn't remember who gave him that information. He had all sorts of different stories as I go through in the media, and Sineke said well the reason why he could remember this stunning news but canít remember who gave it to him was because

26:53 and by the priest not to reveal his source. Right, it's like I said it is kind of a classic slip up. The parallels to 9-11 whatever your thoughts about are pretty apparent because the two instances were that George Bush said he saw the first plane hit the building on television which wasn't the case there was no footage of that unless he had closed circuit TV then no one else could see and then the BBC Was reporting that building 7 had fallen when it was standing in the background of the reporter I mean, you know Whatever your thoughts who's responsible these are facts that are verifiable on YouTube especially the second one You can you can see the reporter giving? The message that the building had fallen while its standing in the background but you know so yeah

27:41 I've seen this happen before and it seems like a kind of classic slip-up. It's the most damning evidence to me, but what do you think were some of the most damning pieces of evidence outside that convinced you that church was responsible for the assassination? Yeah, I would just say that there's a long line. Certainly the amount of Catholics that were involved in this... John, did you see the movie? You know there was a movie, Robert Redford did a movie last year called The Conspirators' Job. It's not stunning too because the movie itself that your average person would go to see is saying that she is innocent. Yet he produced a documentary DVD as well where he consults with the experts and they all say she was guilty

28:33 It's a stunning sort of total disconnect between the facts and it's produced by this man who went to, I don't know if he can profess it to be a Catholic but it's He's Jesuit trained, he went to a Jesuit university and he bankrolled it. Itís about Mary Surratt and I believe itís the ongoing attempt to rehabilitate her image, which is a pretty tough go. Then thereís also Dr. Samuel Mudd where we get the term still ìMuddî.

29:23 His name is Mud and then there's a wonderful book written called, ìHis Name Is Still Mudî about the attempts to try and rehabilitate his image. the fact show went north to Catholic Quebec and he was sheltered there by the Roman Catholic Church, and then he went across Europe and ended up in a papal army. Then there were attempts to manipulate his trial. There's just a long list of circumstantial evidence. I would say that the amount of Catholics in

30:09 Chinookia reported that Mary Surratt's boarding house was both the Jesuits' priest and the conspirators common meeting place because they were telling them why they needed to murder these people. The fact, as you say what happened in Minnesota, Edwin Stanton's view, the person who headed the official US investigation his view that it was a Catholic plot Again, I think it's very powerful but there are certainly smaller other information that again points. When you look at the actual evidence like you're mentioning not what somebody is advocating but what the evidence is pointing to.

30:59 There's a long line of circumstantial evidence that points unmistakably to that source, I believe. coming from Chinake's book, 50 Years. There seems to be a lot of corruption in the Catholic hierarchy, a lot more than you would think for an institution that is built around principles of love and happiness. I mean were you kind of shocked at the amount of little scandals that were going on in the Catholic Church? Yeah yeah I was surprised and

31:40 I've heard lots of negative things about the Roman Catholic Church, but I also like to be able to. To know that in the 50s, in Mexico, Protestants were being raped and beaten and lynched by Catholic mobs. And to know that the Vatican Bank, to bring it more up-to-date has been again and again linked to money laundering and other financial crimes.

32:22 I mean, there's actually a butler on trial right now in the Vatican for the crime of reporting information about the Pope and he is quoted as saying that he was afraid for his life. Yeah, I had heard that! You know like this is supposedly a Christian church and he's afraid for his life? So I guess, I was surprised in some cases what I found. Yeah, as you go through the whole conspiracy itself towards the end of the book, is the assassination of a president something that Catholic Church would do? Is it consistent with the character of the Catholic Church and you obviously conclude that is but what other actions have the church

33:14 Have brought you that conclusion. I mean have you researched the corruption at the Vatican Bank much well? Again, I'm you know III did not receive any Canada Council grant or any national endowment of the arts probably locked up pretty tight It's been on my own dime. I've been limited, and people always thought that I was going to Washington or Chicago for a nice vacation. No, I wasn't on vacation. I was in these archives and libraries, and then in the evening, I was reviewing what

33:59 concentrating more on what Chinike's allegation, so I didn't have a whole lot of extra time for looking at other things. But certainly David Yalop's book In God's Name – you've perhaps read that – about his allegations that John Paul the First was actually murdered in the Vatican because he was going to clean things up So this does seem kind of consistent with the character of the Catholic Church. It does, yeah it does and unfortunately at this point they seem to have a lot

34:42 friends, certainly in big media who do their best to try and shelter them from suppressing the information that would be negative. Very corrupt in itself. Of course, I mean even the movie you mentioned The Conspirator I mean You know you have a book that comes out and people start talking about it And then here comes the Hollywood unlimited budget to come and say well You know let's nudge it back in our direction and even if there's a documentary on the very same DVD That claims our documentary is bullshit or that our movie is bullshit? You know No one's going to notice you know they looking at the bright lights

35:30 and they're gonna hear the big picture which is don't pay attention you know let's just move it along I have friends who kind of know what I've been doing and they say, ìBoy it must be incredibly discouraging for you to work this long on a book and to do your homework.î And then to sort of be slapped down by major media who would think that they'd Then you get people who apparently spent very little time in libraries, so writes books on LinkedIn and they're lionized and things like that. They get a lot of very large sales but I guess it's just one has to keep plugging away.

36:25 It seems like if you get ignored, that's pretty good evidence that you might be on the right track. Well yeah like just for instance I could be completely wrong but Ford Theater has two bookstores one is run by the National Park Service and the other is run by a company that also supplied the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library Bookstore in Chicago History Library bookstore and others I went through the process with this company that supplies all these different ones and even got an IRS tax number. We had talked about how they'd gotten the book, and this lady was going to get eight or ten and try them in a Ford's theater and do testing and everything like that back-and-forth.

37:17 When that's all done, I hear absolutely nothing. The same with the park service. I've communicated with them and now I can't get an answer from them. I suggest very plausibly they don�t want to tell the truth or a lie so they say nothing Fair, I mean it's a common thing. Common thread! Yeah yeah but... But i spent you know all this time on it and actually am not planning on going away Going back to the character of the Catholic Church one thing you do write about also is the Magdalene laundries which is something that I hadn't heard about before but how was the Catholic church involved there and what were the Magdalene laundries?

38:06 Well, there was a movie or documentary put out about it which I saw. There's so much information that I don't have all of it to write but I think it was about eight years ago if my memory serves me and it's just stunning thing that they had this sort of system Essentially, slavery in Ireland where women who were thought to be morally sort of fallen, were essentially committed by their families. And they were in this system of slavery to do laundry and things like that and suffer abuse. This documentary finally came out because there was a

39:04 The discovery of hundreds of unmarked graves had caused this to come out and these women that were considered moral criminals were given life sentences. And the last of these Irish convent prisons was closed in 1996 Yeah, not that long ago. Not that long ago and it's interesting you know it's very interesting that Ireland was one of the most Catholic places in the world and its really I think fascinating now that the Catholic Church is essentially out there and I haven't tracked it down but I've heard anecdotally that priests are afraid to go out in public dressed as a priest

39:50 Because of the abuse? Isn't that ironic. Yeah, and Ireland! I mean...I am sort of working on another work Oh yeah tell us about that Well it would be about New York City draft riots You do touch on that in this book too. I do, that's correct and it was really a Catholic attempt to overthrow the union government by these riots in New York so these huge mobs of Irish Catholics were destroying property killing police and soldiers

40:37 beating black people to death for the crime of being black. And actually, and Chinake talks about the Irish and how kind of slaves they were to their bishops but that apparently has now changed which is really interesting. To get to 9-11 I was in New York two months after that I was doing research and I walked around 9-11, and there's a police memorial. I forget it. It's called the Wall of Heroes, and they list all the police that have died in the line of duty. And I looked at that thing and said there has got to be a mistake because no one was killed in 1863. Listen, I knew there were at least one police person killed

41:31 It's kind of ironic, they were going to actually finally put him on there on September 26th or something like that. And then so a hundred and some years later they just miss it by two weeks because this 9-11 happens but how does it take that long to put his name on there? And again, I think that has to do with the suppression of disinformation and I've been in contact with the City of New York Police Department and they have now actually found another two or three policemen that they now list as having died during that time on the line of duty. It's interesting that they would miss that

42:12 Just rather not bring it up. It might lead people down a trail, and let's just not talk about it." You talk to people in Chicago and they look at you like, ìIíve never heard of this stuff before.î I believe it has been relentlessly suppressed and itís terrible what was done to the black people of New York during this time. And there ought to be, and you know the Roman Catholic Church could have stopped it but they did not. They were also involved behind the scenes in World War II with the Nazis I mean they have a track record of being on the wrong side of conflict

43:00 They do absolutely but people still give them money on Sunday. I See, yeah, I guess but they that people don't you know? People don't know what what they really did and and Enlarging it, you know in the media are are Helping that out if it appears definitely Yeah So it's What was done in Yugoslavia was just horrendous. I don't know if you've ever heard about that. There was a man whose name was Pavlik, and he wanted to make this part of the world

43:53 Catholic. And I get my information from a time-life source, and that when the Nazis took over Yugoslavia they installed vicious homegrown fascists named Pavlik. He was longtime advocate of Croatian independence and the founder of a pro-Catholic terrorist organization known as Ustashi or rebels His plan was to eliminate the alien elements, Serbs and Jews and Gypsies. The Serbs who were Eastern Orthodox had a simple plan for them that one-third would be exiled, one third would be converted to Catholicism and one third would be killed.

44:44 They sickened the Nazis, if you can believe it. According to this Timelife source, the Germans who shared local occupation duties with the Italians were first embarrassed and then sickened by the Ustashes' indiscriminate bestiality and they wanted to replace him but they couldn't But he took the precaution of having his likely successor murdered and the Germans were not able to find someone else. So they let him bang animals? Yeah, so the Ustashe massacre is a report by the time that killings were finally brought to an end, the Ustashes had taken incredible toll on Serbs, variously estimated from 350 thousand to 750 thousand.

45:33 You've never heard of it. It's pretty terrible. I don't know if you were aware that the Catholic Church helped Nazi war criminals to escape? Right, I'd heard about that! So did the US government apparently with Project Paperclip Yes they did and it was very wrong and there should be a you know it should be a cleared up you know that the hope but i guess my argument would be i mean it's only it they've gotten away with it for so long uh... i think that the same players are still there at least you know um... their cycling through of course in life span people not a hundred fifty years like the lincoln assassination was but the culture is still there if they could pick culture criminal

46:32 and i think those same people are still in power and they've never really been fully exposed that we get closer all the time with the internet i mean that's probably the biggest uh... box opener that we've had you know, to take the lid off some of this information. But I think those people are still there so that's why we're still not really gonna ever well at least not at this point get that stuff to go mainstream but towards the end of the book you also talk about a few modern plots that you think the Catholic Church may be involved in let's talk about that a little bit Sure, which ones were you thinking of? Well most notably you spent some time talking about the idea that they may be responsible for the Mexican illegal immigration or that they may have a motive there and bringing over a lot of Catholics from across the border because didn't they do something similar in Canada or support something similar.

47:31 Well, certainly the most Catholic part of Canada, Quebec has been an ongoing attempt to separate from the rest of Canada and break the country up. There was actually The New York Times also There was a write-up about the attempt to bring Catholics into New England from Quebec and to take over that part of the United States. The Catholic Church has talked about

48:15 really invading the United States and taking it over. And I quote from priests that, who really say this. I'm just trying to find it. No yeah you do have some quotes in there that they say you know they're very passive about it but they suggest hey maybe you should cross the border and have a bunch of children And it seems so like, I hate to even entertain it really because it is to me such a non-issue. I don't really find immigration to be an important issue but compared to the corruption and the corporate corruption and the type of money that's getting spent on wars you know? I feel like immigration is kind of paying attention to a mosquito on your arm while a horse is raping your throat. It's such a minor thing but people like

49:12 Like to hype it up because it's you put it in front of all those other corruption and then no one ever digs that deep But it is interesting to think that the Catholic Church may actually still today be trying to they You know, I find it to be an irrational thought And kind of a paranoia that you know kind of was fueled by racism. That some conservatives have but it may be interesting that they may actually be trying to infiltrate the southern states and then get a majority and then bring up a rebellion and try to succeed in some way Yeah, well that talk has surfaced and I find it very interesting that wherever you find these concentrations...well you find Catholicism. You find separation. You find corruption. First of all why aren't the

50:05 prelate telling them, well this is United States. They have their own law and they're allowed to make their own laws so don't break their own law by illegally immigrating." Right you would think they would at least just say that I mean... Yeah and teach there people that but instead they're advocating for them to come in it and I mean why? And another question is Why are they even coming north? When you cross the border, the air doesn't change and the soil doesn't change. That's based on your political system so you have people from a predominantly overwhelmingly Catholic country risking their lives to get into a Protestant country. Doesnít that tell people anything? Why is Mexico such a basket case?

50:58 Well, I think people are willing to compromise their religion when money's tight. Oh sure! No but what i'm just saying...I guess my point is why Mexico so messed up? Yeah, we never talk about that uh we always talk about illegal immigration and is it a serious problem or not or should we grant them amnesty but no one ever talks about hey We could just make Mexico a little better. We could just help them out, you know do a little Gordon Ramsay and You know get them up to speed and then we wouldn't have this problem Yeah

51:37 I believe the United States has certainly got some tremendous problems down in the United States. It has been a citadel of freedom around the world and it has done historically much good. Certainly, you've got very powerful groups that that seemed to have tremendous amount of control. Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex and I think you certainly got some very big problems

52:16 But I would suggest that it is a plan to, when you have enough Catholics in an area then the area becomes Catholic and they become influenced by this church. Because you have such control on their mind The suggestion that you should rise up, I mean it's so odd that people just fall for that. Their logical rational brain just kind of dissipates and they're like well this is what i'm told to do and im going to go with it. People have been telling me what to do from authority perspective my whole life parents school bosses so yeah

52:57 Yeah, and I think it is important to For people to use their brains. I mean that's what God gave everyone a brain for not to check it at the door of your church or Wherever but to use it yeah well you know you end the book by saying This is a really great quote from it But it is this author's wish that this book will serve as a current and timely warning to American Patriots that the Roman Catholic Church remains one of the most deadly enemies of the freedoms of the United States no matter how friendly or harmless, it appears to be. And I love that! Is there anything else you'd like to add to or cite to reinforce that statement?

53:40 Douglas Goldstein, CFPÆ, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host in the facts. And it's sort of a bit of refreshing change from some of the quote journalists that I've been dealing with. And i would never call myself a journalist, I'm just a college dropout who smokes weed and reads interesting books Oh okay well but you're interested in what the facts are? Sure! Of course! That's great because...and I guess I would hope Americans would indeed realize that blood was shed for the country of the United States, for what it stands for freedom and true liberty. You have a garden and you also have to tend it.

54:37 that indeed the Roman Catholic Church does remain a huge sort of threat to that, and I would also say that their friends in the media are also in that same. category in my experience and an american should very much question what the mainstream media tells them until the mainstream media stops being in the interest of, stops being in the business of currying favor and protecting powerful institutions and individuals. Of course do you think that those freedoms are all... it seems to me like kind of a way the catholic church

55:18 at the highest level is completely corrupt and doesn't care about anything but they preach you know love and happiness in you know don't don't then we can do it but you know you guys shouldn't do it it kind of thing like a campaign when we're talking about politicians today talking about this great freedom we all have been just everybody wants to infringe our freedoms i don't feel on a daily basis all that free when i can find an airplane without three ounces shampoo You know, like I said. I have an affinity for a certain plant that you know the president also has partaken in you know But if I got caught I'd be thrown in jail but he has no incentive to uh, you know help those people out and and

55:59 Stop infringing on that freedom while he uses Harold and Kumar on his DNC ad which is kind of ridiculous if you think it's a serious problem worth putting people in jail for but I just don't feel like There's that much freedom, you know red light cameras We seem to be pretty controlled. But everybody wants to talk about this great freedom It seems to be double speak once again to me I would tend to agree with you and certainly, you should be able to talk about things. In my own particular case, I'm willing to go away but only if somebody refutes what I say and not just says that we're not going to listen or pretend you don't exist. Like you said, there are a lot of things that really should be talked about and it seems very rare for people

57:01 somebody in politics who's willing to talk about them. The only one that I might be able to think of right off the top my head with my limited knowledge of American politics is maybe Ron Paul." That's fair, as a first statement Yeah, but you know look at how he was depressed. He apparently won main But yet no you know nobody looked at it or went back to the count They just kind of glossed over like oh, you know he didn't win let's go on Oh Really okay? I didn't I did I guess I wasn't aware of that but well again You never can really know you know it's just

57:38 because i feel like everybody's got a motivation ron paul supporters have a motivation to say look he actually want to stay in life you know we got momentum and then of course the government has definitely shut him down not allowing them to speak at the rnc you know they have bought into the nail not given him affair uh... affair chance that winning nomination i mean that clear But did he really win Maine? I don't know. I'll never see the vote counts, but there's a lot of people that think that when the votes were fully tallied Ron Paul was on top but the race had already been declared for someone else. I don't even know if it was Romney at that time, but they just kind of went past it

58:15 Wow, I guess I hadn't heard of that. But he does seem to be at least talking about some things that I think a significant portion of the US population would like to actually talk about. Agreed! He's all about getting the freedoms back you know? Yeah and... You can have a wonderful constitution but if you think the legal right to ignore it, then it doesn't really matter. I'm sort of understanding what has been happening whereas Abraham Lincoln said no, I've sworn to uphold it and am going to. Not to get in a big thing about Ron Paul but

59:03 You know, he is about freedoms. He wants to end the drug war and the wars overseas and then the Federal Reserve which you know huge that would be great that would get us on the right track but he also wants to remove some of the restraints from corporations which there's where I think it's a disastrous idea to remove regulations from corporations we've seen what it does they are corrupt institutions as well and they never really do anything from altruistic means so too Allow them free reign on everything. They've already got too much power I think it'd be disastrous and that's kind of where I separate from Ron Paul But you know, we are getting we are getting down to it Paul and I appreciate being here You're a great historian, you know I'm standing all up all the work you've done A lot of it has to be very tedious digging through documents And I appreciate that there's someone out there who is willing To spend a good chunk of their time doing it so that facts can come forward and we can get down to the truth You know

59:58 Well, that's very kind of you to say and again thank you very much for your great interest. I hope there are more Americans who are also as interested in this as you are. Of course! Thanks! And where can people get the book and keep up with you? It is available online at www.barnesandnoble.com and it can also be available directly from me, people can go on my website and read my blog.

1:00:44 Okay, well it's on my website which is www.salmovapress.com but if you google Paul Serup and Abraham Lincoln you'll get it. Have you just tried it? Oh, no. Well I did it in preparation for the interview but... Okay okay. It does come up with tons of results! You are THE guy when it comes to talking about this particular conspiracy and again that's great that you spend so much time and dedication learning about it And now you say your next book is going to be on the draft rights Is there anything else you're working on or when will that be coming out? Oh well I'm 20 years

1:01:33 I hope not, although it takes way longer than you think to write a book. I also work in renovations and another family business right now but I would hope that maybe I'm just thinking maybe possibly this year, or maybe early next year. We're in the 150th anniversary of the Civil War so we're coming up to the 150th anniversary of that time next July. So, maybe before then. But we'll see how things go. Well I look forward to it! You know it's always important to expose the shady paths of organizations especially ones that still wield power like the Catholic Church today so again thank you and hope society rewards you for this service you've done to our historical record and it's been a pleasure Paul

1:02:28 Thank you very much. Have a wonderful day folks That's the show check out another great track of truth from heist click You can hear more from them if you follow the link Find the higher side chats on Facebook Twitter YouTube and wherever you are now I guess tell your friends or write a review It's the greatest favor you could ever do for me We got shirts available conspiracies net for all your conspiracy clothing needs That's enough plugs. I'm starting to feel like an asshole conspiracy my dick If the masses rebel, they ain't got the fence First thing you gotta do? Stop the fence Look out! The elite run the show I know ya like trees You just hustle and flow What the fuck do you know about them W.O.? Shit...I say not enough

1:03:27 But through police states and eugenics, they're squashing us. Global leaders for lots of bucks They act rotten and they turn on us. Cigarette heaters up in Ottawa are conglomerates They plot and they drop bombs on us And put germs in us without words or muss They all mass murderous forced to control on us They're saying in God we trust, but the praise go to Satan. Pagan worshippers overtaking the nation We could overtake them If anybody just listen to the words that were saying Run try to run set you up with a slow kill You'll never see it coming if you stay with that blue pill Liberty sent me now they're coming to get me So the NWO

1:04:17 They didn't ask race the control grids gone as they unleash the play Can the trails from the tribe downstays a man in black while we jack up all trains? Oh No Not Obama too, oh no. Yep, but Rod's and some were so old in high society deep in a coke. You don't know the nascope where she goes. Better yet go with Nash or to Maxwell what he does and Alex Jones cause they exposed skulls and bones in bohemian groves. But higher priests saying listen fools to the teachings of mystery schools

1:05:14 And they sacrifice, and write laws that'll narrow your path in life This shit's a fact of life Conspiracy my dick it's in black and white And they know about the b- They're getting ready for what the fuck will you do? Get together prepare for war You're gettin scared from the swine flu The fuck you'll do is real cock