THC 115: John Perkins | Economic Hitmen, Predatory Capitalism, & Consumer Power

00:04 We're here because we don't buy into the bullshit of mainstream culture. We're tired of the mundane, passionless careers that have been shuffled into as a result of this orchestrated debt-based system of rule and the stranglehold on education and entertainment by cold soulless corporations People Yes, we are frustrated yes, we are tired And we reject the brave rube tranquilizers that are Monday Night Football and an ice cold Budweiser But we have to stop hiding Stop hiding behind headphones and the Cherry Popper 420 username Let the world see that the resistance is strong and society is changing. There was a time to be anonymous, but that time has passed And so the higher side chats would like to present conspirites as the dawning of this new paradigm in uniform revolution Because bold fashion should mean more than some celebrity meat dresser frat boy in a silly pink polo Conspirates redefines old fashion as having the balls to project socially uncomfortable and unpopular truths from your radiant chest all fucking day

01:02 Conspiratease.net Let them know that you know Bold designs for troubled times Hard truths, soft cock In the 1930s President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the fireside chats His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times But we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration, we offer a fresh conversation. I'm Greg Carlwood... on the Higher Side Chats!

01:43 Hello again, Ironside Chatters. Drinking a little drink, smoking a little smoke from sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood and today is such a great show We got John Perkins in the house identifying some of the problems and offering up some incremental solutions to try to turn this ship around And being another fifth episode we complete one magical money bomb cycle and another begins This round got pretty damn high and I split the listeners half between two lucky listeners, and each got $421. How appropriate a number can you get? And that was a legitimate split! So we're going to talk to one of the Money Bomb winners today for just three or four minutes before the interview, then we'll talk to another next week. Let's get this party started here is my conversation with Eric and we will be rocking like a hurricane on The Other Side with John Perkins

02:35 Alright people, I'm here with my man Eric one of the two money bomb winners that we have this week. Eric man thanks for donating congrats how you doing? Pretty good man, just hanging out. Just pretty excited when I got your email that I'd won so...pretty random cool surprise Yeah yeah! Well thanks a lot for putting in it's it's a big deal you know people can listen to the show for free so when they take the time to actually donate some hard-earned money I mean that means a lot says a lot so I greatly appreciate it Right on man well uh..it was good show Thanks man and I want to ask you You know, I asked you what you do but you kinda told me outside of your job you got some bigger aspirations huh? Yeah definitely man.

03:17 Yeah, I've been into the whole alternative knowledge thing for a while since I was a kid. Been trying to find my own voice in the community and listening to shows like yours and hearing your progression of how you were able to take this show and do what you have been looking for. Things like that have inspired me to pursue that more. in a more motivated manner, I would say to get my ideas out there. So it's just like actually winning this is kind of like whoa! All right maybe I am on the right steps here. Yeah man the universe is speaking to you so when I do these things I always like to ask people if they have a favorite guest or topic or thread of research that we dive into that really grabs you that you would like to see explored more?

04:05 Yeah, definitely man. I'm really into the whole aspects of consciousness and the whole control mechanisms involved with our consciousness because at the end of day that's the root of everything as far as my ideas on these things. In that vein, guys like Tesarian I love it you've had Tesarian on just watching him his research is jam-packed back to back such knowledge and its really cool To hear guys like to Sarian on the show right on man. Yeah, he was one of my favorite guests I'd love to get him again But apparently is not doing interviews at the moment He's been out a game for a long time So I understand wanting to take a break but are there any other? Guys like to sorry under guys talking about consciousness that I haven't had on the show yet that you'd love to see

04:59 I mean, you know there's always those guys that are a lot of the you know You talked about a little bit about the psychedelic and antigenic experience like anybody like in those realms Like I mean, I know like guys like pinchback or like huge right now So like that's like a big, you know big draw but anybody anybody speaking about those kinds of subjects would be awesome to hear from Just the relationship that has pinch pecks a tall order, but I mean I'll see what I can do. I think Dan Fogler might know him from the Don Peyote movie He was he was involved with that He's kind of like uh... He's kind of like a pseudo celebrity psychedelic guru Kind of in a strange position so I don't know you might be tough to reach but I feel ya on that

05:43 I'll, you know challenge accepted as Barney Stinson would say. But um another thing i always like to ask Money Bomb winners is do you have any plans for the money? You know it's made up of the listeners donations a lot of people chip in five ten dollars at a time and builds up now got four hundred twenty one dollars but think that people usually like to get a good idea what someone might do with their donations Yeah definitely man. I had no plans for the money since it's so random but I definitely want to do some good stuff with it, so I'm definitely going to put some back into the show. Oh nice!

06:19 Yeah, definitely. I want to snag some of your conspiracies. I got the aliens and pyramid shirt, the Pyramid Builders. Oh cool! So yeah, definitely want to grab a few more those. Well thanks. And uh...yeah man for sure and then if anything's left I want to try get some more my photography out there. I do photography and I've been needing that gets some prints done like some good frame print so hopefully put stuff out Yeah, man. You should make that a priority you know I got my half you know i'm doing okay? I mean the show might go through some changes sometime soon But um you know I'll maintain but you know you got this gift from the universe I don't think it was just to give it all back I think you should get yourself whatever you need for photography and pursue that man because if you don't You're going to be stuck doing what you do for money That's probably not your passion

07:06 And you're gonna be just watching time fly by, thinking about when you're gonna have the money to go get the supplies you need to really get your art going. Right on man! Thanks for that Yeah, you got it So dude thanks for listening to this show much appreciated for donating You seem like a good guy I'm glad you could win and yeah man take care of yourself out there any other last words for people? Nah, just keep listening to The Higher Side. It's a great show you got tons of subjects all over the place I love it You know never gets boring so uh pretty cool man appreciate everything Thank you man take care yourself Alright man you too

07:48 Folks, we all see the string pullers in the world marching millions of us little marionettes right off the economic cliff. But they've got us so burdened by trying to stay afloat in our individual lives that we just can't seem to make any progress on the bigger picture despite how obvious the problems might be We've allowed psychopathic bloodthirsty corporations to maximize their private profits at the expense of entire nations of people and ultimately the planet itself While everyone can agree this is a recipe for disaster most of us know very little about the inner workings of the system and better yet how to fix it it. Well, they say if you're not part of the solution you're part

08:32 He advised the World Bank, the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund and a multitude of Fortune 500 companies and countries in the role where he was instructed to undermine entire populations for the benefit of private corporations using large unpayable loans government policy and debt as primary weapons. Lucky for us, John has done a 180 and today is one of the most well-known whistleblowers in the subject. In his latest book Hoodwinked he describes how these systems of economic control have evolved and also lays out a plan to change course and fix a lot of problems before it's too late I know i'm psyched to have him here John McMahon welcome to THC It's great to be with you today Greg thank you Thank you, man. It's a serious honor to talk with you and I commend you for exposing the world of economic hitmen in these programs rather than just burying your morals down deep and retiring into an island somewhere which i'm sure it would have been easy to do Well actually I live on an island just off coast of Seattle Bainbridge Island but not retired that's for sure traveling around a lot speaking on these things And this is the most amazing time to be alive we're truly going through

09:36 the biggest revolution history i think bigger than the agricultural or industrial revolutions this is a revolution in consciousness and across the planet where really experiencing people rising to another level of consciousness but we get to push it further and take actions accordingly. I agree with you there. I'm very hopeful for the way people seem to be waking up to a lot of these problems and, uh... To get us started i'm sure most the audience is going to be familiar with your first book and your lengthy appearance in Zeitgeist Addendum which I loved but um let me just have you give a little more detail on the role of an economic hitman for people who might not be familiar yet Well, I think it's fair to say that we economic hitmen have created the world's first truly global empire

10:20 It's not a national empire is not an american empire really it's its corporate empire and corporations are based in the united states and certainly use our facilities pentagon, all our intelligence agencies to serve their best interests what they consider to be their best interest. We have a global corporate empire by people that i call the corporate talk receive people who had a car because corporations And incidentally a lot of money to know each other so i really can't get conspiracy we can we give them more later but it is this huge empire and it was really created by economic hitman. Not buy any military in the way that we were able to get my work anyways with the most generic is that we like donna fire country has resources those corporations cover

11:09 Like oil range a huge loan to their country from the world bank or one of its sisters with the money never actually goes the country instead it goes to our own corporations to build big infrastructure projects in that country things like power plants and industrial parks and highways. It's served but few very wealthy families in those countries are ones who owned industry and businesses and of course the primary beneficiary are on corporations told the projects, But these infrastructure projects do serve the wealthy families but not the majority of people who are too poor to buy much electricity, don't have cars to drive on highways can get jobs in industrial parks because they don't hire many people and yet they're left holding a huge debt that they can't repay. The country can't repay its debt so at some point we go back and say you know sell your resource your oil whatever it is real cheap to our corporations without any investment

12:05 environmental restrictions or social regulations. Let us build a military base on your soil, privatize your electric utilities, your water and sewage systems sell them or give them to our corporations." And in the few cases where we fail Greg what I call the jackals go in and these are people that will either assassinate the leaders that haven't bought into this deal or throw them out on coups And in the few cases where the jackals fail, such as with Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi then we send in the military. So the military is always there in the background but essentially this is the first empire in history that's truly global A and B hasn't been created by the military for the most part it has been created by economic hitmen through debt essentially

12:55 It's a fascinating story and it was shocking to hear those steps when I read both of your books at this point. Can you give the people one clear anecdote from your experiences on where is this happening? Where have we done this in the past? Oh my goodness, you name a country that's got resources that our corporations want and that includes laborers. Cheap labor is a resource and that country has been hit. And in my book I... Two countries that really stand out are Ecuador and Panama where I failed. I was not able to bring the presidents democratically elected president of Ecuador Jaime Roldos

13:38 and the president of Panama, Omar Trijos. I wasn't able to bring them around. They had tremendous integrity and I failed with them so the jackals went in both men were assassinated. I had great success in countries like Indonesia Iran Saudi Arabia Colombia Guatemala Argentina So, and I described all of those countries in the books. But you know that I think for me the most outstanding were the two where I failed because then I saw what really happens when I was going through all this incidentally nothing I do or economic hitmen do is illegal it's all perfectly legal and it shouldn't be but it is

14:24 But and is approved by the World Bank. It's taught in business schools This is the way to help countries develop give them these huge loans put them into deep death You know, it's a little bit like what we tell our students go into deep debt get a degree got a master's degree And spend the rest of your life trying to bail out from under the debt and basically being a slave to corporations with the banks But it's done on a national basis this way, and it is totally legal. And for me the countries where I failed were the ones who really taught me how terribly subversive the system is Yeah, I can understand that because you see the deeper levels of how they're going to get their way because they're determined to get Their way. I mean one thing I took away from hoodwinked that really stuck with me was the Latin American situations in Honduras and Guatemala and some of those other Latin American countries where They elect leaders who want to raise the minimum wage and bring their people out of poverty but these large companies like Dole and Chiquita are

15:22 just pay to overthrow new leaders who try to do that. It literally is like holding a gun to the heads of an entire nation and using them as slave labor, and if you buy their products you're kind of contributing to that madness but what can you do? You know who knew the banana business was so serious? Exactly! And in fact that just happened just couple years ago in Honduras where the democratically elected president Presents the liar i went up against jake and all he tried to have a major land reform that would they saw my apartment also increase minimum wage which is extremely low. I'm by sixty percent and old chiquita russell athletic and several other big corporations were strongly opposed to this economic hitmen when i try to bribe out of his policies,

16:14 He didn't work, he wouldn't give in and so he was deposed. He was overthrown in a pretty nasty coup just couple of years ago. It's the same old pattern I mean you know you've been active in this since the 70s and it still going on 2009 have you seen any type of evolution occur or have they fine-tuned their methods? Or is the same kind of thing still working Well, what we saw in Honduras was classic. It was almost a mirror image of what had happened in the early 50's in Guatemala with President Narbenz and that was also Dole and Chiquita. The United – Chiquita was called United Fruit in those days but same basic companies. Same technique and we saw it around with Mosaddegh and many other places so the classic

17:03 still goes on, but there's a whole new process too now. In addition to economic hitmen like me who I would basically classify as generic we were out to promote big corporations and we often didn't really care which big corporations get the contracts whether it was Bechtel or Brown & Root or who as long as it was the corporation that would end up essentially taking over the country and putting in deep debt getting its resources available to our other corporations Today, in addition to people like me in those days who still exist there also every major corporation has its version of economic hitmen. So Exxon has economic hitmen, Texaco has economic hitmen, Monsanto does and Walmart does that are promoting the specific interests of those companies

17:51 And I think another major difference is that today in many cases you don't have to assassinate or overthrow a president. Assassination by reputation, character assassination has become a big issue so we saw Bill Clinton's political career destroyed not by a bullet but by character assassination through Monica Lewinsky We saw the head of the IMF, Strauss-Kahn brought down by a sex scandal. He probably would have been the next president of France and was threatening to do some things that many other countries didn't like regarding the European Union or the Central European Bank. He probably would have instituted policies that big corporations were very opposed too so he was destroyed in a sex scandal now I think he was a sex addict but the point is

18:47 They know this. The NSA knows, knows this and so you go for the weak point So today we've also...the jackals have taken on a new role It's assassinations through cybernetics of getting information about people and then bringing them down through sex or drug scandals or something similar Yeah, the character net assassination threat is pretty interesting because just recently you know the the Bilderberg's they meet all the time a lot of these corporate leaders are involved in and those meetings and I had Daniel Estillin on who? Has been looking into those meetings for a long time And he was under the impression that he thought Obama would be in hot water for not getting a lot of it

19:24 policies through in the past couple of years and then right after we see in the mainstream media this big POW exchange between Guantanamo prisoners and the one US soldier, the one lone POW. And now all the media stations are saying that this might be an impeachable offense he might have broken the law he might be spending time in jail and The media is the ones who direct the narrative. So it is kind of interesting to see that play out even here, it seems like he's getting put on the hook for something when it might really have to do with something else Yeah, well people have been very tough on Obama and in a way rightfully so that he has not followed through on many of his promised campaigns. He's you know had more drones than Bush ever had and so forth but the fact of the matter is he doesn't have much power no president does our senators don't have much power they're all extremely vulnerable to character assassination let's face it everybody's got

20:25 A skeleton in their closet and even if you didn't this FBI can easily find one, you know. You know and get it out there to the press like what you're talking about this impeachable act idea that's... And when Strauss-Kahn is brought down or something like that happens anywhere it sends a notice to all of these people And so we have to look at a situation today where our political leaders are not powerful at all. They're beholden to big corporations, you can't get elected to a major position, you certainly can't be elected president of the United States without some sort

21:01 Selling your soul to the big corporations and getting enough money. It's not Obama's fault He wouldn't be president if that didn't happen But we the people have to recognize That we cannot turn into our elected officials To straighten things out because they don't have the power to do it only We have that power in the big corporations of the power, and we ultimately have a lot of power over big corporations Yeah, I mean that is an important thing to remember. It's kind of a scary realization to think that they have no power but yeah we're gonna have to do something else and these types of predatory behaviors they seem to extend all types of corporations in industries. Energy resources shoes cell phones

21:41 Is it fairly safe to say that most companies at the top of their field are at least complacent with these policies? I mean, you said a lot of them have employees that are their own economic hitmen. It seems like that's necessary to be at the top of one's field in today's game. Well yes. We can really trace a lot of the problems back to about the time when I was an economic hitman in the 70s When I went to business school in the late 60s I was taught that a good ceo makes a decent rate of return on investments and investors but i could see you as many other responsibilities and goals to take care of his employees provide health care insurance and pensions.

22:26 and take good care of his suppliers and customers, also be a good community citizen. Not just pay taxes but also support schools and recreation centers and so forth. But in the 70s all that changed when Milton Friedman at the Chicago School of Economics won the Nobel Prize in economics by saying essentially the only responsibility of business is to maximize profits And reagan brought into a patcher bought into it lot of world leaders part of every major us president since democrat republican like this part into that idea is a terrible idea. But if you buy into that if you believe the only job, are your corporation is to make profits then u that do you have an excuse to do anything you need to do to make that happen as long as you stay within the law or

23:22 Essentially bribe public officials to change the law as to help you make more and more profits. So these big corporations are really the ones that write the laws, I think during some of my lifetime quite a lot of it in fact The elected officials in the United States wrote the laws but they don't anymore corporate lobbyists write the laws at least the major laws and they run them through elected officials who they now own. So we elect these people, but they don't represent us once they're elected. They represent the big corporations for the most part there are some exceptions but for the most part. Yeah it's almost like a proxy government and it's just they're just placeholders It is a proxy government and really what were describing here I hate to overuse this word but its really pretty much of a fascist state where

24:12 if you define fascism as a lot of people do, is being where business and government corroborate. And that's certainly happening in the United States today which I'm very sad to say. Absolutely! I agree with you and a lot of heartless Westerners might say yeah it sucks but i get the benefit cheap sneakers and cheap bananas and never really see any downside but it only makes sense that when you dominate small targets in the third world, eventually and it's working so well you'd eventually go after bigger ones. And these practices are no longer just confined to the third world as they once were right?

24:49 Absolutely, and that's a lot of what I write about in Hoodwink is how – what goes around comes around. And so what worked in these other countries when I was an economic hypnotist we're now using against everybody. The corporations are using it against the middle class and the lower classes encouraging people to take on huge amounts of debt that they can't afford to take on. And this is part of what the recession that we went through or depression was about, The bankers who most of us grew up just trusting the banker. Heck, you know we were taught that a banker's never gonna let you take a loan that you can't pay back but in fact what happened was bankers told people they could only afford $300,000 house to go out and buy a $500,000 house and tighten their belt within five years it was going to be worth a million dollars and they would be a millionaire so on and so forth

25:48 And that was a huge con. And of course now, the major con is telling kids hey take these huge loans go to these really expensive colleges and when you get out you'll get a much better job The sidebar that is your soldier sold the corporations yes you may get a good job but i'll be working for big corporation that will basically steal your soul and i can't tell you how many electric colleges. He was college students how many of them, hey you know i went to law school because i wanted to be an environmental attorney in the environment but now i'm gonna lose dad i can do that i gotta go work for

26:35 Big oil company or a business company. I hear this over and over from law students and MBA students, and all kinds of students at all levels of education Yeah, I mean it's just rinse and repeat. You get someone in debt and you control them whether it's for schooling or for housing or an entire nation trying to raise their minimum wage like you force them into debt and make any decision for them It seems so simple but yet so many people aren't aware that this is how the world is run The big global meltdown that occurred 2008 we hear a lot about those countries again they were burdened with enormous debts

27:17 And countries like Iceland seem to have made better decisions than the rest of us, didn't they? Well Iceland's a great example of yeah. A country that did make the right decision and there are number of others Ecuador Brazil Argentina all of them have refused to pay off their debts. I was in Iceland several years ago so Iceland went from being the third wealthiest country in the world on per capita basis to going into deep bankruptcy in about 2007. And I went there, traveled around and was invited to travel around give speeches at universities and various other rallies and so on encouraging the country not to pay its debts or refuse to pay them to say hey we don't owe these corrupt bankers took on these debts We the people never agreed to all of this

28:07 And something similar happened in Ecuador where President Rafael Correa, who has a PhD in economics from the University of Illinois, had said I'm not going to pay off a lot of this World Bank debt because it was accepted by dictators here in this country. The people never agreed with the dictators get rich their families get rich but the people suffered so I'm not paying that and then both cases these countries refused to pay. So Iceland finally voted in a huge referendum, huge majority of the countries over 90% voted in favor of not paying off their debts And now Iceland is considered one of the great financial successes of the European zone, which it's considered to be in. It's pulling through and in both cases Iceland and Ecuador are now saying well maybe we'll pay 20 cents on the dollar or something over there. We'll pay some of that. Some of it did benefit people so they're in a position to renegotiate. I think that's a tremendously wonderful model frankly

29:09 Oh yeah, it's very interesting to see because a lot of times you know 20 years ago without the internet we wouldn't even get as much information as we do about the way other countries are handling this situation. They would just put up wall and be like you don't even need to know that there is countries that have decided not pay their debt Right exactly Exactly Yeah The information out there is really important for us to understand now that we do have this tremendous amount of information and understanding We the people have a great deal of power. The marketplace is a democracy if we choose to use it as such, every time we buy something or decide not to, we're casting a vote. It's not just about how we buy its also sending a message so for example if you love Nike shoes

30:06 But you decide not to buy them because you know Nike's got slaves working for them in sweatshops in Indonesia. You don't buy those shoes, but you also send Nike an email saying I love your shoes it hurts me not to buy them but I can't as long as you're behaving this way pay those people a fair wage and I'll be your biggest supporter Right, and then I guess the flip side of the devil's advocate argument is that well then you won't be able to afford the shoes because they'll be so expensive. But I don't understand what's wrong with making less than five billion dollars profit? You know can we take it out of that and make a situation that works for everyone? Yeah, and executives who make salaries in their 20s and 30s and 40s have millions of dollars and get bonuses on top of that and all the amount of money Nike spends

30:51 on huge sports people who don't really need the money anyway and on advertising in general. Take that money and pay the laborers a decent wage." And you know what? It was Henry Ford years and years ago who said, I want to pay my workers at Ford Motor Company enough so that every one of them can afford to buy a Ford. The world will be better off than my company will And I think that's a very, very important statement. I wish Phil Knight at Nike and many other executives wanted to single out Nike but would take that to heart and say hey if i pay my workers in Indonesia enough so they can afford Nike everybody will be better off including Nike

31:37 Yeah, I totally agree. It's an excellent point about Ford because now i can walk into some of these luxury malls and you see Lacoste and Nordstrom in these type of stores And the people...I know people who work there they make $9 an hour They can't afford anything in the store that they work at it's kind of like really backwards to think about it that way Like can't the company even pay their own people enough to afford their own products? Yeah, well Greg and this is one of the things I speak at quite a few business conferences surprisingly enough. We recently spoke to 2,000 executives at the big conference in Istanbul just because it's a conference center these days but

32:18 But when I speak to these executives, there's a new world emerging and the corporations that are going to be successful are the ones that are going to support us in a sustainable world. And one of our workers get paid just salaries or one is taking care of the environment, one is creating a better world for our children and grandchildren And you know I tell, I say you know You're not gonna have a market out there for much longer. You don't pay the workers enough money that they can afford to buy decent products Yeah yeah It's totally true and on the subject of voting with dollars I mean if people wanted to vote with their dollars and weren't totally educated who would you suggest are the biggest culprits today or the robber barons? To use a term from your book well

33:11 I think most everybody knows these companies and if you go to dreamchange.org, a non-profit i put together you'll see some lists there but that's changing all the time right for example recently we've actually seen walmart becoming greener now and i totally applaud that it may be that they're doing it for all the wrong reasons just for publicity Companies are doing this and even if they're doing it for the wrong reason that's helping them understand that they still need to do it and no come around so. I think that, you know what i like to look at this is it there are no bad corporations out there and thats a stretch when you come to something like bonsanto or texacar which is owned by chevron. Or monza or exxon, its a stretch but the fact of the matter is there are just people working for corporations

34:07 And some of the executives at these companies may very well be sociopaths who don't give a damn about anything except making profit. But we can bring them around, and I think rather than trying to blame corporations what we all need to do is take a lot more responsibility so i would encourage every listener that you have just single out one corporation that they particularly are incensed by Nike, Monsanto Chevron whoever Or just take a look at the products that you're buying and take a look at the companies and see how you can encourage them to be better.

34:46 And then start a campaign, you know. Who amongst us doesn't email at least 10 people every day or two or three? Probably most of us email a lot more and enroll those people in helping you send them an e-mail saying hey please send an e-mail to XYZ Corporation until the... You like their products but your not buying them until they do such and such clean up their environmental approach or social approach or whatever and send this email on to 10 of your friends. If each one of us did this to ten people that we Facebook with or e-mail, and ask them to do it to ten people, then ask them to do it to ten people, We'd have a heck of a campaign! And corporations have to hear this. Executive officers don't read all these emails but somebody puts them in a matrix so once a month the CEO gets a matrix what his customers are thinking and what they're saying

35:45 And you know, these have had a huge impact. Public opinion has a huge impact. We got rid of apartheid in South Africa back when I was in college because we boycotted corporations that were supporting it. We get corporations to clean up terribly polluted rivers in the United States and open their doors wider to women and to minorities. Things have changed a lot in the corporate world because we, the people, the consumer has put pressure on them and now we need to ratchet this up a notch and say hey, we're only going to support companies that do not buy into the tenant that's the only responsibility of corporations.

36:21 We need to turn this around and say the responsibility of corporations is to serve the public, to create a better world. To move us out of what I call a death economy that's based on militarization and destroying the earth, ravaging the earth. wasting resources. We need to encourage all these corporations to support a life economy, which is about cleaning up pollution helping starving people grow food more effectively and distribute it creating new technologies for transportation communications banking all of these things there's a whole new economy out there waiting to happen but we need to push further make it happen

37:03 I think that's those are great ideas. A lot of change can definitely come from accepting personal responsibility people can watch eight hours of the Bachelorette in half a year but they can't be bothered to send an email and yeah, that would definitely help the problem but let's look at some other route of these issues because you mentioned that you don't think capitalism is to blame but rather this warped mutant form you label predatory capitalism I'm inclined to think that this predatory form is actually just kind of a natural result of ultra-successful capitalists. But do you think we can have one without going into the other? Well, capitalism is a trigger word these days and the idea has been around for over 400 years. Not always the same word if you take a little marketplace in the high Andes or the Himalayas where people just barter goods that's a form of capitalism and it's been very successful as it can be very benign local markets which I really encourage

38:02 So maybe we just need to think of a different word because capitalism now has come to, lot people understand it as being about these huge corporations which are doing very bad job. But that's not necessarily what capitalism really is. Anyway, let's not worry about the word. What we need to say at this point is we need to move out of this death economy and out of this concept that businesses are there only to make profit and we need to move into a new philosophy that says that we're going to create a life economy one that makes the planet a better place

38:41 And this is not going to put people out of work. There's tremendous amount of work to be done, to clean up the terribly polluted waters of the planet and the polluted air and the polluted soil, to bring back life to rain forests and other destroyed forests, to help bring back life to animals that are on the verge of extinction, to create new technology so that a 180-pound person like me doesn't drive around in a two ton car There's just so many opportunities, Greg to create an amazingly dynamic economy. And it doesn't mean that we've all got to give up our jobs or live in caves. That's not going to happen! We just get to be creative

39:26 and come up with new approaches that will enhance life on this planet for all sentient beings, not just human beings. I think it's an incredibly exciting time and we can call it by any name we want, Greenalism or Capitalism, doesn't matter but the The fact of the matter is, we just need to move out of this old paradigm. Of the way that we've defined economic growth up until now and redefine what economic growth is all about. That's totally fair! And in terms of a great real-life example of some these things you're talking about I was really shocked and unaware of the way corporations worked in the early days of America and the need for companies to justify their charters

40:09 It seems like an amazing system and it's odd, like it seems so foreign to me that we ever even had that. But could you give the people some more details about how that used to be? Well yeah! It is a marvelous model for the first hundred years United States was a country no corporation could get a charter in any state unless it proved there was going to serve public interest Charter's last on average for ten years of exceptions but most companies after ten years i had to go back and demonstrate that they have served the public interest and commit to continuing to do that. Who renew their charter for the next ten years,

40:50 And that all changed in the late 1800s when the Supreme Court decided corporations had their rights but not the responsibilities of individuals. That change was really initiated by one man, John D Rockefeller who went to the state of New Jersey, excuse me Delaware and said hey don't require I serve a public interest let squeeze the hell out of profits here and I'll pay big taxes to the state of Delaware. And then New Jersey followed suit, and one after another the states tumble in it went to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court found in favor of the corporations. And that's continued

41:30 You know, but I think there's an amazing precedent there that we need to return to that idea That corporations exist To serve a public interest they're there to serve the 99% not the 1%. Yes We need to insist on that and it's the 99 percent. That actually has the power We think well, it's the one percent that has the power They own the corporations true But the corporations don't succeed regardless of who owns them if nobody buys from them. And that's where we have the power Yeah, exactly. It should be a privilege to exist for a corporation I mean they're not people they weren't here first you know they're a product of man and as a result they should be subservient too and they should definitely think of it as a privilege to exist and constantly have to justify that existence i would i'd be happy with that world i mean i'd love to put more rules and regulations on these companies to force morality

42:26 But at the same time, I have concerns that it would be a never-ending battle against people like Rockefeller who just rolled back that regulation. Well, I think what we have to recognize is that we're not going to get our politicians to impose those rules as long as our politicians Work for the corporations are paid by the corporation that campaigns of funded by corporations and with a if they get voted out of office there probably gonna have a job with one of these big corporations as you know is an executive or consultant lawyer something to make big money off the corporations.

43:02 So, they are slaves to the corporations. We need to recognize that we need to change the law and this movement to amend together constitutional amendment to get big money out of campaign funding. That's a great step I totally support that And we also need to recognize that we do have tremendous control over corporations by the way, we shop. 15 years ago I was told by a businessman who had practically gone bankrupt trying to get into the organic food business opening markets and he failed at it and said this is never going to happen because you needed somehow...you needed big enough

43:43 large supply in order to make the economics work. Well, Whole Foods came along and did it and they've changed the world as a result and people can object to Whole Foods' policies toward its employees and so on nobody's perfect but it is a great example of how one company was able to turn things around so that now Walmart has organic foods and every major store that sells food has an organic food section, and it's becoming bigger and bigger. To a very large degree because of Whole Foods. So what are complaints people have against Whole Foods? One major thing is that Whole Foods started the whole organic food business

44:31 And that's an example of how we can move things forward even though it seemed like an impossibility. Like I said, about 15 years ago or a few more years ago than that, I was told by a very wealthy businessman who thought he was going to get into organic foods and he practically went bankrupt because you just didn't have the supply chain, just didn't have the scale To be able to compete against the non-organic food people. That's all changed now Yeah and food another good point on food is that a lot of these companies have been able to shield the loss in buying power Of the dollar by replacing The food we used to have, the organic food that everyone thinks is expensive now with cheap corporate laboratory Food that they make for way cheaper So it seems like you get way more but it's not... You know? You're basically putting junk into your body Right

45:25 It's tough because I'd love to vote with my dollar, but i've only got so many you know You gotta pick your battles these days. You gotta pick your battles and and it's again. It's not just the dollar It's the message So you can always even you can always go online? You can always go to facebook You can you can recruit 10 of your friends 20 of your friends 100 of your friends To really launch a consumer campaign And those work they do work um and and I mean You also do have to use your dollar in that campaign too. But the most important thing is to get the message through, even if you can't always shop that way at least keep sending a message to corporations that you expect them to move in this direction and that you're only going to be their customer if they move in this direction we can all do

46:12 Absolutely, and sometimes it's choosing the lesser of two evils. I mean when i had a corporate job and used to only get 30 minutes for lunch break It was a choice between going somewhere inside Target or going to grab something inside Walmart And target has this big thing on the wall that says they donate 5% of their profits To the local community and yes A lot of stuff in a target is made by slave labor, a lot of its GMO food But at least 5% of the profits are going to the local community, which is better than zero if you were to have gone to Walmart. So I think just making those kind of choices pushes the needle in our direction. And what you want to do is let Target know and let the other store, Walmart or whatever the other store is know that they're not buying from them because they're not doing this and their competitor is. Let Target know that they're really glad they're doing this so we can do more.

47:01 And push them, I'm going to you right now instead of your competitor because you do this. But I'm still looking for other alternatives and I think bringing my own food to work and not buying from you at all because I also know that you've got people working in sweatshops so change your policy." So we just keep pushing them and pushing them and pushing them and realize that even those corporations that are run by sociopaths who have it within their DNA or their chemical system or something that they don't give a damn about anything. They do give it down about the success of their company, so while you may not be able to appeal with some of these executives on moral ethical grounds, you can appeal all On economic grounds.

47:56 in the marketplace and that people seem to be getting away from the large multinationals and going with a smaller startup business. And a lot of those smaller startup businesses are the ones that are saying, you know for every shoe we sell we plant a tree or for this amount of our profits goes to a little charity we started and all of our workers are paid well. You know, those little companies are really coming around and I think that you know if we're going to be optimistic i think there is some potential there for them to rise up in these other old school companies to see the error of their ways. I think it's possible. Oh totally! And I travel all over the world in the last year or so

48:36 When is south east asia europe middle east travel to latin america. I love the united states and everywhere i go i find that people are waking up the consciousnesses changing we are in a revolution of people understand the importance of buying locally, all over the world and advise to the small producer Can you know when classic example and is a little town in vermont brattleboro. And if she goes to go walmart want to come into the town that people said no we don't want you, but the court said they had to let wal-mart it and so i built this big box store you know and then brown girl and

49:23 The people didn't go to it. They didn't buy from it, they continued to buy from the mom and pop stores in town even though they may have been a little bit more expensive and Walmart closed down there's a big empty shell there now at least I haven't been back for three years but I presume its still that way. I think thats a great example you know of the power of the dollar, the power supporting local community, supporting local merchants is very important and same with banks, supporting local banks We have tremendous opportunities here to really change the world and we're in the process of doing it. We just need to accelerate it a bit Absolutely, man I totally appreciate that because they've had a lot of depressing information in the last few shows and our real lack of positivity So it's good too to highlight something as a course of action and a proper direction I think that we've done that and I think

50:15 that you're right on with the emphasis on informing them, that's a free thing to do. You waste so much time watching just an hour show or one basketball game and in that time you could have emailed 10 corporations and told them off and maybe had some influence in changing at least one person's mind up that ladder. So... You know Greg, to take a negative approach, to get discouraged is You know it's understandable but in a way of the car is way out and it's it's it's and i don't mean to trigger anybody who's negative now because there's good reason for people sometimes feel that way but to recognize. That when we take that attitude they want that what they want they want us to feel powerless

51:06 You look at any revolution, look at the American Revolution. The British did everything they could to make the Americans feel that we had no hope of ever winning a revolution against them. Fortunately not everybody fell for that. A lot people did. A lot people just threw up their hands and said hey there's no point in fighting the most powerful empire in the world today which was the British Empire but Others like George Washington and a lot of farmers and hunters and so I said hell no we're gonna fight. And i think worth that situation today to where if people are feeling negative in there that they scourge tonight they want to give up just recognize it

51:43 That means that they've beaten you and that's exactly what they want you to do. So the better thing is look at this great pleasure we have now, it's just a greatest revolution in history I am so honored and excited be alive at this time to be out there saying these things, to be fighting for this. To be dancing the dance of changing corporations and changing the world and of course we can do it but we can't do it if we just throw up our hands and say that we can't do it. We absolutely can do it and we are doing it. It's happening around the world. Things are changing big-time

52:20 Amen, man. I totally agree the game is not over people so hey John it has been a real honor I have a lot of respect for your willingness to speak out and all the insight you've given millions of People into how things work behind the closed doors It really is invaluable and people shouldn't underestimate that So thanks a lot. I mean would you like to give the people your website or anything else before? Sure, I would thank you john Perkins org please go on and sign up for my newsletter which only comes out once a month And you have to sign up for it on my website, johnperkins.org Also a non-profit I created 25 or so years ago dreamchange.org It has a different newsletter that goes out once a month Sign up for that one too and yeah and also you can find on there where i'm speaking I travel around a lot I'd love to meet your listeners So please check that out at johnperkins.org

53:12 And I'm also on Facebook and Twitter, so you can check that out too. And I just want to say Greg that I really appreciate all your doing and thank you for this show and for all that you're doing. This truly represents freedom of the press The awakening of consciousness. Oh, thanks so much very much appreciate that but very cool John it has been an honor and privilege Thanks for being here take care yourself out there man likewise have a great day hi you too. Hi economic hitmen predatory capitalism and consumer power Yes, I'd like to change the whole game. Yes, I'd like to tear down the system and build it anew But a big question with something like a resource-based economy is always how do we get there from here? It always seems so foreign what we have that it's hard to conceive for the masses but I think the way to get there is by making it easier for people to visualize And we get there By nudging this machine in the right directions and using that consumer power while we still have some left compassion capitalism

54:10 I could live with that and die happy. Life is about compromise, i'm learning." But there we have it people! Thanks for listening the new Conspiracy HQ project is coming together really well soon to be released at conspiracyhq.com The Secret Space Program conference is this weekend hope to see a couple of you there life is good You're happy? I'm happy Let's reject the abuse of the corporate world and value ourselves enough to command the respect We should have never lost in the first place We got dreams to achieve and like today's money bomb winner when the universe gives you an out, you gotta take it. I wish y'all the best find your passion take some chances and throw off those corporate chains." I really think Afro Man said it best when he said...

54:51 I don't wanna work no more, but McDonald's and Taco Bell, that modern day slavery is knocking on my front door. Get you a big fat sack of yayo Can't see my kids can't see my wife, can't see a way to control I'm an employee, cook and crack like a black chef 4 yard deep Got net speed but not the

55:27 Whatever you need Zig Zags come free with a bag of weed If you want some sherm, ya gotta talk to herm Skinny black dude with the real long perm Laptop computers Rap CD's Motorola phones Sony color TVs I got the porno tapes In the back of the car and get it free I'm getting money with my folks on them hunnids, but cops ain't waiters. We don't tempt the tree covers like women take em home and strip em. Match the pink slips get the smock inspection put a ad in I can't see my kids, I can't see my wife I can't see a way to control my damn life

56:26 I don't wanna work no more Fuck McDonald's, hot Taco Bell Modern day slavery Random truck is knocking on my front door I'm not being insubordinate, motherfucker Tell the neighborhood watch I need a Beaver, what you say man?

57:21 And you really oughta give me for a limited time Brother the chip come with it, so come to my house Swing your times as hard, just like Vegas in my backyard I keep my afro pink My khakis creased and my next door neighbors calling up the police Cause i don't wanna work no more Mother day slavery knocking on my front door I can't see my kids, I can't see my wife Can't see a way to control my own life I said I don't wanna work I don't wanna work no more, modern day slavery lookin' out my front door. I can't see my kids, I can't see my wife, I can't see a way to control my damn life! Come on yall! I quit my job this mornin', I quit? I don't wanna work no more, I can't believe the bullshit I went through. Fuck McDonald's and Taco Bell yo, modern day slavery!

58:11 It's knocking over my front door, woah Get you a big fat sack of yayo Can't see my kids can't see my wife Can't see a way to control my dog love Reckless, snatch your necklace Sell it on the corner then buy myself breakfast I made $80 in an hour Motherfucker, I wanna get a job, fuck So the yuppies that got these can cross state power Pay my black ass five dollars an hour And the fact is after taxes Gotta live where the Mexicans and the blacks is, motherfucker

58:49 I'm sleeping in fucking trucks and trailers $300 Abraham Lincoln told me I was free so I'ma walk to the corner and do what I wanna While you at work, I'll be watching cable with your girl dancing naked on my knees on my new pool table I don't wanna work no more Modern day slimmin' knockin' on my front door Can't see my kids, can't see my wife Can't see a way to control it, I'm like that's my problem Said I don't wanna work no more Modern day slimmin', knockin' on the front door I can't see my kids, I can't see my... Hey man I gotta sell like a twenty dollar rock Ay yall keep singin' and i'll be right back

59:33 I wish I could brainwash people like Ozzy Osbourne, modern day slave. Black Sabbath and some shit. Hell yeah baby! I make everybody quit they job at the same time and shit. Can't see my kids can't see my wife can't see a way to control my doggo I'm throwing big-ass right There's only 7,000 cops in LA damn this 14 million people wait

1:00:10 He motherfuckin' throw a ride, just take everything Just make the corporate world collapse Walk all in the grocery store, grab sirloin, T-bone steak Go to mama, this dude... Taking all kind of rams, airbags, and everythang Investigators are looking into the mysterious death of Joseph Foreman, known to you as Afro Man.

1:00:55 I'm alive, motherfucker. You smell me?