Stephen Bassett | UAP / UFO Disclosure: Latest News & Recent Hearings

00:00 Welcome to one of the few truly independent and sponsored free podcasts on this island earth. If you like these free first hour episodes, consider getting twice as much with THC plus and treat yourself to the full two-hour interviews as they're designed to be where things only get deeper and more interesting behind the curtain a plus subscription gets you five new shows a month in a full archive of great interviews with amazing folks going all the way back to 2010 That is the gist, though there are other details benefits and bonus features you can hear more about at the end of this episode or in the show notes where you can also find the links to sign up and join the club at TheHigherSideChats.com Or if you want to listen on Spotify sign-up through Patreon Enjoy! Where would we be? Cause we know that ain't too low to what degree Where would we be with The Higher Side Chats Show

01:48 Promises made, promises kept out of the spotlight in hopes that you'll forget about them. From The Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood and as well versed as we are on the art of propaganda government corruption secret keeping and narrative control it's gotten very hard to allow ourselves to get excited about the idea of any big important information of any kind coming out but only the current president and his appointees have been bold enough to promise more transparency on the two biggest secrets of our day How deep does the Epstein rabbit hole go? And what is the government hiding about UFOs. And while I wouldn't really hold my breath for either, we have every right to not just let such bold claims get glossed over as typical political election season pandering and maybe a relentless pressure does eventually get us closer to truth than before but many wonder if the president even can know or reveal the full truth of either of these things

02:43 Well, when it comes to UFOs few have championed the cause for disclosure with more commitment than today's guest Stephen Bassett. One of the few true UFO activists and the only registered lobbyist for UFO disclosure in Washington he is also the executive director Paradigm Research Group, an organization founded in 1996 to end the government-imposed truth embargo on the issue of UFOs and ET. And through that organization he also maintains one of the best online archives for documents news and correspondence between high ranking officials on the UFO subject that I've seen He's done over 1500 interviews trying to keep the public

03:20 pressure and interest on this issue high enough to matter, and was instrumental in the organization of 2013 citizen hearings on disclosure at the National Press Club in Washington. In 2023 he also co-founded The Hollywood Disclosure Alliance a new media centered organization working to align filmmakers with true whistleblowers and researchers to try and pry that his closure door open even further It's an honor and a pleasure to have him here, the dedicated disclosure demander UFO truth embargo activist and thorn in the side of The Secret Keepers. Stephen Bassett welcome to THC. It's a pleasure to be with you. Yes man thank you! And just playing off that intro...

04:02 What secret do you think matters more to the big machine? All the gory details of the Epstein situation or full UFO disclosure. Would they maybe even sacrifice one to maintain secrecy on the other? Hmm, now you cut right to the heart of the moment that's for sure a couple of clarifications right just so your audience can be cool If they find themselves in the midst of a lot of people into this subject, right? Really serious. We're using UAP we try to avoid UFO it means exactly the same thing but it doesn't have the stigma that the government worked very hard to attach to it and I am a disclosure activist not a UFO activists disclosure activist because disclosure is the prize that we've been seeking now indirectly directly for so many years

04:51 The movement that's underway is what I call a truth movement. Every activist movement usually can fall into a couple of categories, the civil rights movement of the well it's continuing but certainly it was one of the great movements in the 20th century. The civil rights movement was a justice movement and the anti-war movement it's a little harder to define that but It involved some truth, it involves some justice. But also is primarily a matter of ethics or morality was almost like a morality movement. So this is the truth movement we're trying to get a fundamental truth from the United States government at least in our country regarding this matter of non-human not technologically advanced non human presence which I prefer to call extraterrestrial. The government has lied about

05:49 Government lies about a lot of things. Some things are important, some things are more important. The question is how if is the truth that we are seeking does it merit an extraordinary level of commitment? Sacrifice? How truly important is it and so forth And the answer I think is now pretty well acknowledged that it is one of the most important, if not the most important truths in the world right now. So that puts it very high up on a scale. To answer your question how does this stack up against another truth movement? The movement I don't think is quite uh... the term you want to use. Truth issue

06:33 And that is the latest scandal du jour, and that is the Epstein scan. Now when I got into this field 30 years ago, I absolutely could not have imagined that as we get really close to the finish line on this 80-year movement it goes back to 47 that there would be this other thing kind of cruising along with us like a sidecar one of those motorcycle sidecar you look over the left and there's. Yes scandal right there what the hell how did you get it right i didn't invite u write this is so low gig but there it is and this is true of all history in all of history terms of all movements your subject to the,

07:15 The vicissitudes of history, the tide of history. There's so much else going on that your movement however important is gonna be subject to that and if you don't like it too bad and you're gonna have to navigate that a classic example similar to what we're talking now but on a larger scale is that the civil rights movement was reaching a kind of major transition point in the 20th century as it approached the 1960s. There was clearly the potential for breakthroughs, and it's getting there all of a sudden the Vietnam War just rises up right in front of us

07:53 And so as you're moving 61, 2, 3, 4 and so forth they're having to compete with the activism opposing that war which was intense. It was capturing the media it would major demonstrations it's about as big if God, as far as my life and that's anything quite like it. Well we've got a similar problem here all right this movement which is 80 years on and near the finish line is having to deal with one of the most dangerous wars in our time which is the war in Ukraine with Russia which has raised the specter of nuclear weapons use more than any other

08:34 situation prior, all right. The closest we came would have been the Cuban Missile Crisis of 63 and a huge political upheaval in the United States which happens countries go through this or having to deal with that and then the Epstein scandal I'm not going to put it at the same level of these other things going on in the world, such as the Ukraine war and so forth. Well that's my curiosity is which one UAP or Epstein? Which do you think is a more important secret to for the system to maintain The truth about the, uh, the, of the extraterrestrial presence is the most important issue in the world today as far as I'm concerned and I can make the case for that and always do. So it is absolutely more important but

09:20 in terms of the strategy and how we're proceeding, and how we can make progress right in here now. The Epstein scandal is more important than the Ukraine situation. It's more important that a lot of other craziness that's going on. And why is that? Because disclosure as I defined it back at 2001 capital D is the confirmation of this presence by the head of state, which I think most people would prefer would be our head of state. Anything less than that is not disclosure. It's not some pilot coming forward or even an astronaut it... That doesn't count. It's got to be the head of state because if that takes place everything else that needs to happen will begin to happen

10:11 And that will spread and you'll have other heads of state following suit. And in a short amount of time, the globe or world is going to be engaging this issue in a whole range of ways and the world is going to come to know it's not alone right? Headed State got to be that and almost certainly go with start with one Given that, the Epstein scandal apparently is completely involving the president. And a lot of other people. Yeah exactly, a lot more than just the president I think but what i think it's just kind of curious because The President and his appointees you know not just the president himself

10:50 But the Epstein file and the UFO file, we're very used to politicians just ignoring these things entirely. You know we've come to terms with that but when you promise your going to release the two biggest secrets available well I don't know if people are gonna go away quietly and There are some researchers who say there's an overlap between the two because the reason we don't have disclosure is because certain people have been compromised by those who want to keep secrets and thus, you know with blackmail you can keep anything a secret. And there is a curious element to that because it wasn't just politicians. Epstein was very involved in the scientific community and who knows how deep it goes really, but It's kind of interesting that there could be an overlap or some blackmail elements to keeping people from coming forward. I don't want to give this scandal that much credit. Alright? It is clearly

11:46 a monkey wrench thrown into the engine here. And it's an issue, and we're going to have to deal with it. But the fundamental issue of disclosure goes all the way back 80 years to 47. It's been an established policy in the United States government that this would be withheld for a very long time. It was a national security matter. A lot of very fine people who were serving us both in the military intelligence agencies supported this policy for reasons that can be justified. So I wouldn't give it that much credit, it is a problem now but I assure you doesn't really have anything to do with the government's decision to still not be willing to end this embargo, what I call truth embargo right? Which means supporting the president to do

12:43 Because again, it has to come from the president. The president's got to be supported there has to be a platform established which is been established But what it is is a scandal of this magnitude Is literally dominating well It is is dominating a major portion of the media and involves key people that would be involved in the disclosure process And so it is both a distraction a way is a distraction So in that sense What do you do? All right. What do you d and you're trying to get You're trying to get the p States to confirm this an

13:21 All right and it's right we're practically there red almost at the finish line so much has been done you heard me talk about that i'm sure others have a list of things that happened in the last seven years. That did not happen to previous seventy is a very long list were practically there but the world complicated and dangerous place now there isn't connection though, There is a connection, which I and maybe you saw this as well between the two in a way. One of the reasons we're going through this extremely difficult trying time in American politics, American governance and so forth is because trust in government fundamental trust in government or the United States right? And it's Republican democracy

14:09 Has it fall into levels which are very much dangerous if not lethal yes like you can lose so much blood and then you just die so got some blood left but your. One of the reasons that the trust has fallen is because a major decisions by united states government to lie about matters of importance, generally those have been previously we've had we've had major lies associated with wars most people know about and certainly the Vietnam has got to be right up there. There has been a lot of manipulation, and I think

14:45 Align from politicians as the election electoral process is decayed to the point where what you have to go through just become a representative or senator president is so massive. Requiring billions of dollars to run an election twenty thirty million dollars to win a house seat hundred million when i sent it see so for the process is brutal and so that people that are seeking these jobs are having to push the absolute limits of truth and even confabulate to try to get there. So all of this has undermined trust, but probably history will come to understand that the truth embargo regarding the ET presence which starts in 47 played a major role. Why? Because for the government to keep the truth embargo in place

15:40 It didn't have to just kind of lie once, like in that with respect to the Vietnam War there were a couple of significant lies that made it possible to escalate that war. So they lied we escalated and you move forward but in order to maintain the truth embargo on the ET presence the government has had to lie every single day since 1947 every single day right? In other words why do they have to lie every single day Because they're lying about something which is evident, it's self-evident. It's in the sky! It's flying around all the time. It's being seen. It's turning up on radar. It's being filmed with cameras and in old days and now cameras are everywhere

16:21 And of course the public has engaged it with extensive research. They've come up with documents, they've come up with witness statements, they've analyzed cases and on and on and on building up this massive tranche of evidence that points to the truth of the matter which is we have a non-human presence here almost certainly from other stars, but non-human presence. Now I'm curious why you make that assumption? What assumption? From other stars because if we're going to say we don't want to use the UFO term and I don't want to get hung up on terms... We want to use UAP instead of UFO. I would also assume parallel thinking as to we should probably discard extraterrestrial and go with more like

17:03 multi-dimensional nonhuman intelligence or something a little broader because it's kind of an esoteric flavor that UAP brings to the new term that is used. And I think that same broader esoteric flavor should be brought to what these beings are because, I don't know if they're just humanoid creatures from another distant planet. Because everyone who says they know the truth about this stuff says that the truth is so epic and so bizarre and so mind-blowing humanity couldn't take it I think humanity could definitely take some beans on another planet, but it would have to be reality shattering and very bizarre. Like these entities are with us all the time or we are on a human energy farm or a prison planet or were being manipulated somehow and nothing you do matters. You know what? Have to really shake reality to its foundation. I don't think aliens is enough. Okay look,

18:03 You've raised a bunch of very interesting points, which I will try to address as best. I can the difference between UFO and UAP is simply Better useful terminology they mean exactly the same thing you AP at UFO means exactly the same thing so The reason we swapped or tried when we tried to move to that language is for the for the activists movement In order to try to get the political attention, well the media attention as well as the attention of politics we had to move away from a term that the government had gone to great length to stigmatize.

18:40 To the point where they created what i call an intellectual ghetto so the moment you are there the phrase ufo your suddenly. Label right based upon all that ridicule if they don't keep on it and not just makes a harder to proceed in we wanna play by the rules government set, what is their absolutely different things now i mean same thing So when you get to the issue itself, the truth embargo has ensured that with respect to almost any aspect of this reality that we're dealing with is not absolutely certain.

19:19 They've gone to great lengths to ensure that. Just denying it, decade after decade what are you talking about? There's nothing here there's nothing there whatever ensures you can't get certainty in other words they have interfered directly into the scientific process which hopefully they don't do in other areas of science right so if your trying to understand say quantum mechanics or any other area of physics Our science or biology you have a scientific method which is the one of the most great inventions of all time which is allowed to build society we have, what is that you go through it process of experiment and repetition and establish something is true.

20:00 because it satisfies repeated efforts and so forth. And once you've established that, you move on to something else and you build a structure of truth that is – you can rely on so thoroughly that you could actually using science and engineering build a rocket that can go to the moon and come back and not just blow up." Right? The scientific method is what built this world. Now, in terms of the understanding and any science with respect to the ET issue, the government has interfered and said no, no, no, it's a waste of time that's all true not true rather they've done everything to undermine the ability to apply a method that will establish the truth of this matter

20:46 And so this is government interference in science. It is not something you want every time governments do this, it never ends well. It is a major problem and so the government is responsible fundamentally for us not being able to get to how would you say almost absolute certainty about any aspect of this however 80 years of research is still been done and all that research if you don't have the bias if you're not buying the government's nonsense and you can look at that research and you can come up with your own assessment. Yes, many people have yes people astronauts pilot scientist so forth when you go to that point here where I'm at and I'm not alone but again there are others think differently

21:35 I believe the evidence points to extraterrestrial meaning from other systems. Okay, well what brings you that conclusion? What evidence makes you think they're extraterrestrials? First of all one is that the evidence for the alternatives is very very thin Very, very thin. All right? I don't know about that. And again, ultimately it doesn't matter in terms of the movement where they're from because ultimately the issue is they're clearly technologically advanced we have some of that technology is being sequestered and we don't have access to it and so forth.

22:19 were being denied that they're even here. But if you want to talk about alternatives, one is that they have always been here. They've been living underground for thousands of years and they just come out once in a while and so forth. And they evolved here. I like that idea! Yeah but it made me feel safer but the evidence for is just minuscule. It's not there That's fine. I'm just curious what evidence you look at that makes the case that they are extraterrestrial because I think... This is a tricky one. You're going to have to give me some time on this, it's no easy question to answer. I just got a lot of stuff here that I want you to talk about. But what we do get to is inhale it down and your audience will be the benefit from that. And what I'm saying is the evidence for the alternatives is very thin and that's important

23:08 So if somebody says, wait a minute they could be living here all along. They call them I think what do they call them? They call them um i don't know what the hell they call but there always been here the evidence is just not there The other evidence is that from other dimensions Well it's cool sci-fi idea we see in fiction all the time It's great What is the evidence that their from other dimensions Its practically nothing right except aspects of them are kind of interesting maybe you know they're coming from something right next to us but the evidence is very, very thin. All right now what's the other oh and here's the one I love the most right they're time travelers they're from the future and not only are they from the future but they're us from the future again evidence for that minuscule now here is the problem if I'm the government and I have been sitting on something of this magnitude

24:00 And let's say they're sitting on the fact that they have theirs there is extra trust you are coming here to engage us in various ways and how can i have a presence here, i am gonna be quite happy with every other theory you can come up with. I don't care if you think your time travelers go for it right get me write books go online talk about all you want because it distracts away from the fundamental truth that were withholding from you so People can come up with their own opinion about this, and that's fine. But from the standpoint of the activist movement it doesn't help. That's one thing. The evidence for the alternatives which are all over the place and people love it and they're in the movies is not helping a movement because the likelihood they're true is very small. Now what about the fundamental truth which I believe we will learn? Is that they are from other star systems. The evidence for that is pretty strong here's why.

24:57 Right in the last well in recent times we have finally come to understand how big this universe is it's big beyond imagination just our galaxy is big on imagination and we now know that aside from the fact that there's more stars in our galaxy and their grains of sand on every beach in this world right, it's hundreds of billions alright we have come to understand now and then this is relatively recent. That the vast majority of all of these star systems have planets and then we can't understand a significant percentage of those

25:34 Have planets in an area zone where we call the life song goldilocks so they can maintain a temperature range and availability of water which is pretty essential we think to life it's a fast number. Okay so the ability of other earth to exist out there is now been established is virtually a certainty idea given that we are no different. Any significant way from other systems throughout galaxy of hundreds and billions of systems, Right? And no different, really in any significant way from those that have planets and have planets in a life zone. The idea the only planet in 800 billion star systems that actually develop life is us is on its face ridiculous it is absurdist alright so

26:24 What you get there you go okay so clearly this other life is the life in the galaxy we cannot be only like planet alright next question is, is there anything preventing life on another planet from evolving over several billion years to having a technological civilization i can't think of any. Right is there something special about us that like we able to build computers but billions of years of development on another life plan no way they're gonna never be able to build computers because i have some problem now. I so we have to then accept the fact is other technological civilizations and that brings us to the third most significant point. If they have developed longer than if they had greater technology than if they been around another two thousand years just be on where we are in these days you could say 200 years, is it not possible that they can found a way to get from one star to another anyway that was workable

27:22 All right? And that's a more significant leap, but it is appropriate. Right? And so if they have, is there any evidence that they are in fact from another star system? Well how about this? What are the areas of evidence that is not getting the kind of attention and play that other areas of evidence are? And the reason for that is political and is a matter of, as an activist issue and that is contact very early on. I think most people understood that if you want to get the attention, even if you're going all the way back to the 50s and 60s. If you want to get attention of the media scientists or anything else to this issue which you believe is valid and important You need to talk about sightings. You need to talk about landing events. You need to do it Mufon was covering all those years right? Sighting events studying photographs whatever you didn't wanna get into contact

28:22 And one of the things that maybe made that point strongly was that in the early days, not surprising. The area of contact came up in what we call the space brothers right? These are people in their 50s who said they were having contact and they came forward and it did not go well because nobody knew what the hell they were dealing with so it was just crazy. So we had to stay away from them And we still pretty much have to stay away from that. If you've seen the hearings, if you've seen the statements from members of Congress and so forth it just isn't mentioned though recently it's starting to get a little attention. Well let me actually cut in there because I do want to talk about what you call fire hose of information. I agree there is a lot of stuff that has come out in the recent 12 months

29:14 dwarfs, anything we heard for the last 10 years probably. And seven years of progress yet? Yeah there's been some progress sure but yeah I just want to remind you or let you know that like you're talking to an audience that is made up mostly of people who have been looking at ufology and this question in disclosure for over a decade probably two and i think the biggest frustration is that were sick being teased You know, you say the alternatives don't help the movement. What I think doesn't help the movement is the constant teasing News Nation is responsible for a lot of it Oh we're about to drop a bombshell and then its one story of something that happened one time People have been looking at this Have read thousands of cases Of abductees, of sightings

30:01 very, very bizarre things. A little egg-shaped craft isn't going to move the needle that's not the bombshell that they think it is now I know you got to get people to pay attention to your show You gotta get the numbers up It's an attention economy and ad based economy I understand but its the teasing that has taken a lot of people out of this You know, your whole thing is as a lobbyist you're trying to drum up support. You're trying to drum up interest. You're trying to get pressure on the government that's so strong they must reveal what they know but there are people who should be on the forefront of that have given up because after two decades of teases

30:40 We're just sick of it. And you know, I don't want to throw you under the bus but if you look at your own Wikipedia page it's full of like George W Bush is going to be the disclosure president Obama is going to be the disclosure president Biden is gonna be that as close your president a lot of people are like stop jerking me around stop emotionally manipulating me and I get maybe it's just like your enthusiasm maybe it's just your optimism But I don't think that helps the movement to have people who are actually interested and engaged because some people don't care but the people who are interested in engaged. To keep having them get rug pulled makes them just say you know what fuck it we're probably never gonna know all right erase some pretty,

31:22 interesting areas. I'm sorry, I'm fired up! No you don't have to apologize if somebody gets into the activist area on major issues uh you're gonna have to deal with a lot of stuff like this that's the way it is let me tell you the civil rights movement and you can imagine what those people went through it was brutal we want the same thing you know we want disclosure we want the answers in order to really address this and by the way the wikipedia page that was put up Which i'm gonna have to deal with and I've gotten a little made some progress but that was put up by a skeptic one of the group of individuals in wikipedia. That think this issue is nonsense and they decided to go proactive,

32:01 and they tampered with some other sites, and then threw that site up. That's absolute crap! It's ridiculous. It's grotesque, and I'm going to get it fixed." Is it inaccurate? In 2003 according to the Washington Post quote, Bassett said George W Bush would likely announce aliens are among us by 2005 two years later July 2007 disclosure will come within one year 2015- I understand Obama is likely to be the disclosure president. I know Wikipedia hit pieces are very common, half the guests have Wikipedia hit pieces so I know that it's maybe not all authentic but are you saying this is bullshit? That these are not things that you've said previously? No, no, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that I've done 1500 interviews about my work PRG's work and so what this guy did

32:57 is to simply go and look at articles, and if he saw something that he thought could be helpful to the effort to sort of throw some shade. He just picked that. Yeah, Cherry picked the evidence I understand but the larger point that you're making is well there's two larger points that you're making but in terms let's talk about This this thing that he's trying to make the case that I'm constantly saying that there is going to be disclosure tomorrow and whatever what you will if you were to go back in and read. Hundreds of these of these articles and watch hundreds of interviews what you will see

33:33 Is that i don't do that i don't predict disclosure is gonna happen on june the fifth of such a date. I have given so many interviews and i might have gone a little too far at some point in time you know that's fine i apologize but overall i dont do that, are there people doing this for people now they're putting out some statements that something huge is gonna happen twenty twenty seven what have you They even made your day. I don't do that." Yeah, and I'm not here to give you a bunch of lashes about those kinds of things. I'm just curious when you say these things that you thought at the time that these previous presidents would be disclosure presidents? It's okay to be wrong but i'm curious did you say those things because you were just maybe overly optimistic or did you say those things because you had insider information and they deceived you

34:25 No, I don't make predictions on insider information either. Again look, I'm going to answer your question this is a very significant kind of thing that an activist has to deal with this kind of stuff it it's not unusual and particularly in this issue where the government is essentially trying to undermine and suppress and confuse and distract all the time let me tell you this is not an easy path I've been in it for 30 years, so I can testify to that. So let me see if I can convey to you this and it's tricky the movement is and I come to call at that. I call it the disclosure movement

35:05 It is a truth movement. We're trying to get the government to end a huge lie that has undermined our progress and undermine trust in government, the idea is how do you get that? And it's very similar in some respects to the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement basically had a fundamental goal we've got to get legal confirmation of equality. We also need a Voting Rights Act so that we can conduct ourselves like everybody else in this country and it took them 85 years to get it, right? Starting reconstruction... It's not easy! So with respect to getting the government to do something it doesn't want to

35:49 You have got to get a movement together and you've got to keep it together, to keep battering the door. Right? That that the door to their little castle and hitting it until you break it down." So those were efforts to create that pressure in the case of the ET issue. The matter was the government simply will not confirm the presence We have a goal, which is to get the president to confirm it. I can't—I called that disclosure with a capital D and I think that's kind of become a thing and I'm happy about that." You've actually said every president going back to Truman has known the truth about UFOs

36:28 I find that really interesting. I appreciate disclosure with a capital D, that a president should come out and really blow the lid off the secret. I know a lot of people who are researchers in this field that they don't think the president even has access to that kind of information. This is a guy who's here every four or eight years and then out the door it's the generals in the deep corporate world. What about that claim? That they took all this stuff to deep corporate so that it wouldn't be under the government's purview and that the government is subject to certain laws and disclosures that corporations aren't restricted by? That is the case. The truth embargo was built on a very sophisticated program in which

37:14 the vast amounts of classification schema and stovepipe programs, protected here and there. Parked here park there they spent billions of dollars to set this up. And so all of that is essentially the engagement of our country into this issue. People have limited access or no access in all that we know about that right? Are we putting pressure on the wrong entity to go at government if they don't have the answer? Well, again it's one thing to be working on a program or to be spending your entire your job is to deal with the ET issue. That's not what I'm conveying when i talk about the presidents in other words you don't have to be read-in you don't have to be given regular tours of underground facilities

38:01 to know that there's a presence. All it takes is one person who does, isn't the know to let the president know that yeah, that is real. That doesn't mean you're going to deal with it starting right with Truman. Essentially what did Truman know? All he was told was that yeah, there's a crash in Roswell. There's a vehicle. There are bodies and they are not human And therefore what do you wanna do and turn on may the decision to tell me undo that change that narrative which he did right away so we can decide how are we gonna deal with this.

38:42 This goes right back in a way I like to always take things right back to roswell it starts in forty seven basically and its very very simple something crashes. There's there's being in the crash they're not human right therefore from somewhere else, So right at that moment, there might have been moments prior to that. There might've been some people that learned about this prior to Roswell because you got a crash maybe it occurred in 33 but in terms of really getting into the beginning of it is Roswell and so that's very simple. And so Truman knows that does he know anything else? No, he doesn't know anything else but he knows that it's real all right and so right there you have a president in 47 that knows its true

39:25 And so I am suggesting, and I could be wrong because there's really no way to prove this. But I am suggesting that every president going forward at least knew that this was in fact the reality of things how much more they knew? To what extent that they were briefed I think it will take a long time before we learn these things, but I imagine that every president had a little bit of different access. Right? But at minimum they knew there was an ET presence and I think we're going to find that other heads pretty much a basic statement, okay? President's news. So that's my response to what you just said right there. That's why I made that statement but again to get back to this other core thing which is it is the activist dilemma and if you get in activism this is what you have to deal with and if you don't want to deal with this don't do it! And that is this how do you keep people focused on a very difficult prize like like in the civil rights movement

40:27 Decade after decade when the government is simply pushing back and saying you ain't gonna get that so if you're trying to get justice as a person of color in the twentieth century, you had to push and push and push in the government was pushing back every way could you were up against the state. Most of the time you're up against the entire federal government, but certainly in the southern states. You're up against state segregation laws it is brutal and you have to get people to push against that and risk their lives and invest their money right so for activism to work you have got to establish what is the prize? What are we trying to get right that is so important that huge numbers of people need to commit to it and support it and the prize

41:11 and the lie about the fact that we're not alone, and that there isn't a quote technologically advanced non-human presence that we have been engaging within government for decades. All right? That is the goal all right? The government is spending enormous amounts of money to push back directly against it in ways they don't even do in other areas. In other words one of the most extraordinary things about this activist movement requires a certain level and degree of commitment Is the fact that unlike any other movement that I'm aware of in the history of human race, The major authority basically says everything you're talking about doesn't even exist.

41:50 The government in the southern states didn't say, what's segregation? Everybody has access to everything. There is no segregation there is no injustice here why are you spending all this time? Why are you marching? Same thing with the anti-war movement but the government wasn't saying why are you marching against a Vietnam war we have no troops over there! There is no war in Vietnam that would have been pretty interesting wouldn't it and this issue they're saying everything that you were focused on move on and all these organizations, all the stuff that you're doing in the research and everything else. It's about something that doesn't exist." And that made it unbelievably hard. Okay? Yeah. When you know your girlfriend is cheating on you, you've got all of the evidence but she just won't admit it and you can't let it go until she says the damn words

42:38 that you did it. That's one way to put it, we know there is smoke here and we want the government to admit they did it but I'm not going to hold my breath forever but while we still have a little bit of time in the first hour because way more people see the first hour I thought would get to this earlier but I wanted to talk about what you refer to as the fire hose content that's coming out right now, not disclosure with a capital D but whistleblowers and interviews and military guys going on podcasts. I mean we got Jake Barber, we got Matthew Brown he is really interesting one to me We did have a public hearing in May that didn't get a lot of attention mainstream wise but i thought it was significant because Dr Eric Davis was asked by representative Eric

43:25 Burlinson of Missouri, who is piloting these crafts. That's the meat that I want to know about and he actually said there are four known species operating on earth grays Nordics reptilians and insectoids. And Burlinson said that he was previously briefed on those races as well To me that is pretty bold to be saying at a public hearing though. I heard this a decade ago It's just like well what mouth does it come out of you know? So sometimes I think we put too much emphasis on that it has to come from the top down, because it may never. But I want you to tell us a little bit about having been in this for so long as long as anybody what has come out so far this year that has really kept the charge alive? Because you can get burnout on this issue. What is the most exciting stuff we've heard so far this year? All right let's define your fire hose first. I don't call it a fire hose but what I have said is that we hit an inflection point

44:24 in 2017 and that inflection point you could define it as the emergence of a to the stars academy but frankly it was in fact what members of that group did shortly thereafter and that is provide stories that put new york times into this issue major way and they those stories were published in december 2000. and seven, uh, 2017 another tease and fizzle out. No, I would disagree but let me just, you know, for the sake of yeah getting to the good stuff. So that was inflection point. And from that point forward there has been a study progress

45:03 in this issue that we've never seen, like we've never seen. And it has taken us to where we are right now which is... We're closer to disclosure than we've ever been as far as I'm concerned and that's a you know, we could spend a couple of hours talking about all the reasons for that but nevertheless seven, these have extraordinary seven years! But let me make one key point One of the reasons that those gentlemen and one lady came forward as part of the students are academy one of the reasons that these people will all their careers was in a military intelligence complex right they were part of inside for sure and they come forward some rest retirement now you're not doing this while there under the payroll of the government i think you had you had. Former CIA top people so far like semi van whatever,

45:53 One of the reasons they made the decision and came to come forward, to do what...and launch what has now led to this seven years was all of the effort of all of the researchers and some activists. All of the people mostly you know these are basically regular citizens The previous 70 going all the way back to 47 from Keogh on forward right? And Heineck and McDonald A huge effort for 70 years to try to get to a point where these people who have worked inside the military intelligence community, have their credentials could come forward and take this to the next level. The sacrifice, the crap that they went through, the demeaning all of that having to live in the intellectual ghetto that the government has built they made it possible for those people to come forward

46:42 And so when you talk about, you know people getting burned out and they don't like to be teased. All I can say is I get it right? But look the people that are upset about being teased are not the ones that have put in the work It took 70 years to get us to that point This is not easy this will be looked at and hit by history as one of most extraordinary activist movements ever It finally led us to a point that is one of the most important events in all of human history, and that is disclosure. Things started to pick up and more and more people started getting in, and we started to see it expanding. We were able to penetrate the media at a level never before finally got the issue right into Congress, starting getting members of Congress addressing it speaking publicly. We've got four tranches of legislation prior to then there had never been a single act of legislation. We've had nine or 10 hearings most some which are briefings

47:43 but two full-on hearings. Prior to that, we'd only had two small hearings in the 1960s which were really not significant though we're glad we had them. It took 53 years to get through the next one right? 55 so you have four hearing Media exploded in the last seven years. I have put up on my media archive, on my website 7000 media articles triaged from small and fluff and stuff. You know, 7000 legitimate mainstream media articles in just a few days. the last seven years, right? Someone could go read them all. And if you start in 2017 and read these articles you can literally see the development of this whole thing coming out of the media itself. Yes it is an impressive archive I love spending time on The Paradigm Research Group's website actually have a couple questions about some things i found there but

48:34 But just since the beginning of this year, what has disclosure done for you lately? What have you been excited by in terms of what has come out. We had the hearing in May maybe something there any other various whistleblowers that are talking now because we know about Grush. We know about these things to The Stars Academy. This is years ago since the beginning of this year as anything really charged you up that you've heard from a whistleblower. Oh, of course. Well let's hear 2025 will be ended twenty twenty four on an interesting note and that was the november thirteenth hearing that may sell there is a november thirteen tearing in maine we had the uap disclosure fund held a substantial briefing. Up on the hill and i just went eric davis ask about asked by eric bolson about it types this work came out right inside it, write and so from the standpoint of history this issue nobody

49:27 as ever while sitting in a chair any house congressional office building right and not just anybody but somebody with the substantial history credentials. In this issue in this field have you worked for numerous government programs no one had ever turned to a member of congress and said there are four types of extraterrestrials yeah and it's on camera being live streamed. In other words, if you got into this issue as an activist in 1947 you were going to have to wait 77 years to be in the room and see that happening I understood how important that was other people are you know the people that are new to this issue maybe okay what else do you go?

50:11 That is, that's part of the game. Right? If you're trying to get something done in activism you try and keep make progress and as you make progress your dealing with a population which is increasingly pretty much it's like yeah sure course right what was the big deal let's get going here right there new thing don't care about the history what do you got for me today they don't have an appreciation I get Well, my point was more to ask you to try to get to the fact that we're talking to a lot of people who have been interested in the past and given up. Not new to the issue but have been into it and given up. And so I'm trying to get you to give us some examples of why they should be re-engaged with this issue? Why this is different this time? Let me help you out...I mean, I do think The Four Races—it's hard to beat that

51:01 Insectoids are out there, reptilians are out there. You know someone called David Icke obviously he's been talking about that for a long time But Matthew Brown's testimony, very interesting. I shouldn't say testimony. I should say his interview on a podcast with George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell not exactly testimony but this thing where he was talking about Immaculate Constellation he does this three part interview and then afterwards he goes on this Twitter rant at Elon Musk with some really curious imagery now earlier you said the evidence for alternatives to the fact that they're aliens from another planet is thin

51:38 I'm not so sure it's thin. Any evidence is thin if you don't look at it, but Matthew Brown tweeted these pictures of the Enochian language wheel and the word Logath which refers to the Liber Logath known as The Book of the Speech Of God a magical grimoire received from the Enochian angels that John Dee and Edward Kelly were channeling in the 1580s Even the name Immaculate Constellation has like a religiosity to it, but I would expect someone in your position to want to follow up on that and say why is this guy who George Knapp and Jeremy Korbel have decided is a worthy whistleblower to do a three-part interview with

52:17 Why is he tweeting about grimoires from the 1500s? Is there a connection it seems like he's suggesting there is but there never seems to be much follow-up on what the hell the Liber Logath is and what the Anakian language is because if there is a relationship let's follow them the trail you know this guy laid out the trail I want to know what that's about I mean, don't you find that to be pretty captivating? Okay. I have a response for that but i want to preface it look if you can try not to interpret my response as arrogance. I'm not noted for being arrogant okay right um pretty easygoing and I respect other people's thinking and views and whatever they want to do with their life and so forth. I'm not interested in that stuff

53:03 It is fine. There are hundreds and hundreds of threads, and more of them developing now because this issue was opening up people are willing to listen to it We've got a massive media engagement with this issue like you wouldn't imagine 40 years ago 50 years ago Certainly the podcast revolution has changed that And so in terms of engaging the issue More people are engaging this issue In more ways by magnitudes than going back in time which means that you got all kinds of stuff going on. Stuff turning up here, stuff turning up there. That's fine right? But In terms of the activist movement, that's what I'm involved in. I am not a researcher but an activist. The activist movement is not about proving all of the stuff that may turn up or has turned up or anything else. That is what I call something for the post-disclosure world. In other words any post disclosure world when this matter has finally been outed

54:00 There is this technologically advanced non human presence and we do have vehicles and we've done science and everything else and whatever else in the government is able to then allow. Proper confirmation of key elements of this and it's been a stigma scorn another whole world can engage it then people will Spend a lot of time trying to sort through everything and see well is that true was that true was this person bogus and whatever in develop what we call the scientific consensus of the truth. Reality of it, that's gonna happen in the post disposal world cannot happen now so the goal of this movement is so simple it's not approved whether something that turned up at skin rocker ranch came out of a portal or didn't come out of a portal I don't care if his boy

54:47 It doesn't matter to me, it may matter to other people that are interested in portals and stuff. The goal of the movement is simply to get the President of the United States hopefully first but it could be another head of state to simply end this embargo where the governments of the world either directly or by going along take a position as government to their people that this is not real, that there is I say real now they've accepted it's real but there is no ET presence or technologically advanced presence and of course that's changing very rapidly we're close. We're not saying we're not making progress but they still haven't done it and that is the goal of this movement and one of the ways that The Truth Embargo has survived for all these years

55:37 Given the fact that the government denies the reality of it, it just opens a door for regular citizens to throw anything in there and proceed here and go there try this whatever everything is possible. Right it's like in science if you didn't actually establish the truth of a particular area of science they asserted area quantum mechanics until then everything is in play have a theory look at it hasn't been proved to take a shot, if we ran signs that way we would be living in caves right now and so they have prevented that. people are going to do it they're gonna pursue all these things because there is the government interference in government is deliberately thrown stuff out it has put out this information it's put out individuals with credentials that come forward nonsense in order to attract attention yes a undermining very process of our thinking and so

56:26 The goal of this movement is first get that confirmation, to get disclosure and then deal with the whole array, the massive array of theories and possibilities coming forward. And the movement cannot be distracted by that! I'm not going to be distracted by that alright? Who has the time? So that's the difference. Well, fair enough but you know this isn't just anybody this is one of those military whistleblowers that you know you said it Matthew Brown is not one of these missile military whistleblowers I'm saying it's not a question of who okay I'm just saying this is you know one of the guys in the category that supposed to matter as insiders speaking out but I agree with you that the government lies and puts people out there and misdirect which

57:15 brings me to the question of if your main goal is for the president to end the truth embargo, how would we be able to guard against a limited hangout operation or a selective disclosure that steers the narrative towards some misdirection? Is there any safeguard for that? Or do we just take everything that would come from the president's mouth at face value?" Well first of all, we now have such a vast amount of information achieved through citizen efforts. And then the activist movement as well, that it's going to be very difficult for the government to get too wild and crazy here. They've got huge numbers of people staring at them through a microscope unlike anything in the world has ever seen so if you want to screw around there is about 10 thousand podcasts we'd be happy to take your task

58:03 But in other words, the government either is going to come forward. I say the government we're gonna get that we're gonna get disclosure which essentially is a fundamental truth it's a simple truth they're here or they're not here they're here all right now What happens after that? In other words, say the UAP Disclosure Act which has been resubmitted for the third time passes and we have this whole structure for getting information out and into the public domain as described now. You're probably aware of it going back which is a very important development, the UAP Disclosure Act. And that starts bringing information out so forth. That's good but if they start to screw with it, interfere then our job is to, the activist job is to point that out and say well no, no, that's not good

58:46 And the public needs to express their views, that's not good and push back. If the government – let's take the extreme case. One of the things that has been out there for years and the government is happy to let that go on is the false flag. All right? In other words, if you're interested in this subject and you believe the ETs are here then you need to know that the government is going to create a false flag. They're going to create a holographic saucer that's going to blow up something or they're gonna have one of their own captured vehicles or re-engineered vehicles is gonna blow something up. They're gonna blame it on the extraterrestrials and then we're gonna have a new war with them and so forth. Is that likely? I don't think so but I will say this

59:28 If some idiot somehow sells that in the Pentagon, somehow sells that to the undersecretary of state or something or undersecretary defense and they start to move in that direction I believe there will be huge impact with a pushback within our own national security structure. Are you out of your mind? And if it starts to emerge into the public domain you're going to have the public go on what are you talking about so In other words, the activist movement right now is about getting disclosure But there's more to it than that. There is going to be plenty of activism needed even after disclosure takes place, and I call that the post-disclosure world and they're already organizations that are forming substantive organizations now that you wouldn't have seen years ago that have money in substantial board of directors that are actually coming together to address the post-disclosure world. And so what do I mean by post-disclosure activism?

1:00:19 In other words, in the post-disclosure world now the activism doesn't turn to you've got to, you know, you must confirm the truth of this so we can all move forward together. It's going to be how information is being dealt with, how the government uses this new reality to engage us are they gonna manipulate it or screw around with it there's also activism attended to how the commercial world deals with that right, are the defense contractors that have had this information for years trying to exploit it to make money that's inappropriate and so forth but right now.

1:00:54 Right? We have a fundamental job that has to get done. We have to get the confirmation to the president, which in the second hour gets into Epstein and I'll get into that in the second hour but we have to get that confirmation and the activist movement can't afford the luxury of being distracted off into 400,000 things that are going to turn up right That's fine. We're glad that those things are happening, but do I know if that witness is legitimate or that witness is legitimate? Or somebody who's coming up with an interdimensional time travel theory? No! Not time for that can't do it and with respect to the people what is important about Grush in that this is he's not just anybody that came forward He comes forward with a whistleblower account that has substantial backing to it. He comes forward under oath any hearing

1:01:46 Right the first hearing since nineteen sixty eight. he takes an oath, it's under...it is being filmed. It's in the Congress. This isn't just a Grush thing. It's not just about Grush. It's about the entire context of it and so let's just make the clear statement that a lot of these other people are coming forward or interesting but they haven't given testimony under oath on camera to a committee of Congress. So that's why Grush is very, very important. It doesn't mean that some other witness is less important it just means that Grush has become a major factor in the activist process because he took the very dangerous and difficult role of being a true whistleblower most of them are not whistleblowers He took the hits, he took the threats, he came forward, he did what he had to do

1:02:42 He is going to be a national hero. He should be, and so I would single him out that doesn't mean I demean anybody else but he again as someone who doesn't have first hand knowledge she heard from a guy who saw some stuff like David Grosh i like that he came out but when it comes to people who give their testimony to Congress they're selected You know, a lot of people have great testimony and don't get the opportunity to get that stage. So if you were going to try to deceive, you would just carefully select people who are outside enough like David Grush's to still not really confirm or deny very much and be vague enough to be able to control the narrative even still, which is what I think kind of happens there. And I just wanted to throw this out because you said that you're an activist not a researcher. I respect that. That's fine we all have a role to play but isn't it only by doing the deep dive into the full scope of that research that you can even assess if

1:03:45 official disclosure is truthful or deceptive. Isn't it having the knowledge of the greater corpus of Ufology and high strangeness and interactions and abductees, isn't it knowing all that stuff the barometer by which you can actually assess if the president is being truthful? If you were to get your disclosure moment that you seek. You have to know that other stuff to even properly assess the disclosure Okay look we need to do more interviews because you are one of the few people that i have interviewed with now and i've done a lot it really pushes and tries to get into stuff in bring up issues in intense love this morning. And let me know if this is not a simple subject right and so i need to be grilled like this more sharpen me out because im getting on age where its a little harder to stay sharp all the time now let me answer your question,

1:04:44 The understanding that we do have of this phenomena comes from the work of hundreds and hundreds of maybe thousands of people who have done research over the last seventy years and so as we try to address it. It's not like well you know you gotta know everything that all these thousands of people have done no no you rely on that research right that research in other words i tried assess the research that's been done, what's helpful and what is not helpful as I consider the activist process. But overall that research has been done and it is pretty good but the government denies the issue so... So what? Okay! But I get the point The thing that I think is important to convey about David Grush is of course as I indicated in fact who was and so forth the fact that you testified before Congress under oath

1:05:44 With respect to the fundamental story is this, David Grush was working for Arrow and I think carried over to the task force. That was his job he was involved in dealing with this issue assigned to do that as part of the organization set up by the way which is very significant right another example of how extraordinary progress we've made in the last seven years and so while he is in that capacity he is appropriately contacted by people who are first-hand to this issue inside and given information it's pretty striking pretty astounding And he then conveyed that information on to, I believe it was some of the Senate intel staff which as you know they were involved in legislation and so forth. Well and good but he started having a problem there were those apparently that we're not happy about that he starts getting harassed

1:06:32 possibly even early threats. We don't know all the details, one day they'll come out and so he's not happy about this and so he did what you're supposed to do He took this matter to the Inspector General of the Intelligence whose job is to deal specifically with these kinds of things in other matters And so he had to go to the Inspector General's office and say, okay this is what I provided. This is the information that I provided. I'm getting these kinds of problems. I'm being harassed. I need this addressed. So what? People can show up with all kinds of claims. Does that mean they're going to get redress? Well when he walked in the door, he had the previous and first Inspector General Intelligence McCullough Charles McCullough as his representative. That's how significant that was

1:07:18 And so not surprisingly, he got redress. In other words there was an attempt to stop that harassment Now here is what's very important for that to happen Right? He had to give all that information to the inspector general exactly what he was told The same information that he then revealed with limitations and maybe more because under oath There were things still he was limited in saying and not hearing but not limited in terms of dealing with the inspector general intelligence. So we provided all that information and then had to be verified and so I'm gonna suggest, write that the inspector general's office had to go to those first hand witnesses and confirm that they have told him this

1:08:03 And then the inspector general's office then decides, okay. Right? You deserve to address a redress somebody doesn't like the fact that that extraordinary information came to you and you pass it on appropriately too bad. So he got redressed but it wasn't enough this is a big deal as I think people can understand anybody that knows anything about this issue knows what Grush did at that particular time when when he came forward on June the 5th of 2013 with the interview with Ross Colthar, followed by an article in I think it was the debrief. That that was a true whistleblower event, the most significant one in the history of this issue. It changed everything and led ultimately to that hearing. And so the inspector general has the firsthand information from those people who contacted Grush

1:08:53 Alright, so this isn't just second hand stuff some guy decided yeah you know I think i'm gonna you know I think I know something imma pass it on no and so all of that confirms Grush is the major witness here. He did he did a wonderful very important thing he's a hero right and he triggered a lot What he triggered was pushback. Yes, I would not denigrate Grush because you can't control what experiences you have and don't have It's not Grushes fault But i'm saying people who've been looking at this for decades are a little sick of being hyped up to hear from just another person who never saw an alien And never saw craft He hasn't seen anything it's not his fault You can't control what you can see

1:09:38 I'm just saying there are people who have seen bodies, they say. People who have seen crafts... There's probably a million witnesses that are regular citizen experiencers of pretty regular frequency sometimes we don't get them in front of government We get the guy who heard from someone else i'm not saying it's his fault because again you can't control what you experience But you have to understand the frustration from people who are getting excited about such things only to hear, oh here's another guy. Did you see a body? Well no! Did you see a craft? Well No! Did you see any tech that would be non-human? Well no I didn't but i know a guy who did well where the fuck is that guy

1:10:20 get that guy in the room. You know, I'm it's not your fault either but this is the frustration that we have like life is short. I'm 40 years old now. I've been looking at this stuff since the third grade. I'm gonna die in a couple decades and we're not-I don't know how much further will be you got to feel the same way? You spent your whole life on this look up. No, I haven't. I've spent 30 years look the people that want this and want that all I can say is get involved Get into this do what you can do join the activist movement support some of the organizations whatever that's what you want go get it right but it's easy to demand a i wanted this way i wanted that why weren't you doing this i wanna give it serve it up by one dinner i wanna be i wanna be served at seven am i wanna certain kind of meal whatever the hell no i get it frustrated i cant,

1:11:08 Invest much in that. The government wants them to be frustrated, it's gone to great lengths to frustrate the hell out of him but let me get back to Krush he is not just somebody right? I'm saying that we know enough to know that what he came forward with secondhand testimony that was confirmed by high level people in intelligence community talk to the first hand people. Now yeah we would love to have those first hand people working on the craft right that initially approached rush to come in and testify under oath but also kinda know why that can happen right now and so again,

1:11:51 Look let me go further talk about the disaffected public that is tired of getting pieces information and wants it now. But some of which have never invested one minute of their life in trying to get this done okay, it's out of our hands steven it's out of our hands like so many issues you vote for one guy on the left or right team red team blue but its really out of our hands but I appreciate your dedication to the issue I hope we are near the finish line. I hope being near the finish line doesn't mean another decade, I hope it really means this presidency this is it! You know we can't keep kicking the can down the road but either way let the people know what links you might want to give them what they can do if you wanna mobilize them in any kind of way to move the needle on this thing and uh... We'll call it in

1:12:42 Well I could do 20 minutes on that but let me say this, there are key organizations that need support particularly if you happen to be If you got into crypto early, okay? Which I completely missed. New Paradigm Institute it's a frontline activist organization now it's gotten some good funding and needs a lot more. Danny Shan has been in this issue for a long time newparadigminstitute.org support it! The Soul Foundation is a scientific think tank founded by Gary Nolan A really great guy they are doing important things The UAP Disclosure Fund and the disclosure

1:13:26 the disclosure, there's three organizations that just merged to pursue this issue particularly in the political realm and they're operating now. The three are operating under two names UAP Disclosure Fund is a non-profit and I think UAP Disclosure Action Fund is the 501c4 check that out uapdisclosurefund.org I think you can immediately find that very important Mufon is taking a bigger role and is embracing this situation now, moving from I guess its pure research status into activism. They even hired a lobbying firm. Mufon definitely support it if you can. Paradigm Research Group converted to a 501c3 nonprofit last year so I'm an out

1:14:15 nonprofit 501c3, paradigmresearchgroup.org I'm looking for funding to hold the next X conference after 15 years so love to see some funding for that i need about 20 000 to actually trigger the process and select the dates you've got the hollywood disclosure alliance which is now about a year little over year old it's now got 220 members and it's all about trying to help make the content that's going to come out as funded, well-funded and accurate. And try to get the UAP world together with the film big shots so you can make the content and get a story right? So that's something we're supporting it's also a 501c3 nonprofit hollywooddisclosurealliance.org

1:14:59 Right? There's just so many things that are coming out and developing right now that could use your support. It's not hard to find them, just go online but mostly support the members of Congress that have done what almost few have ever done is take the issue on head-on speak to it and that's Burchett Burleson Mace Luna Moskowitz Schumer, Killebren, Warner, Rounds, Thies and there are a few others. Go out of your way to support these people

1:15:38 They have done something that other members of Congress simply wouldn't do. Stephen Schiff tried to do something, God bless him but they have taken it to another level and they're not-it's not an easy road for them. It's not like everything is great now that they've addressed this issue but nevertheless they have and they're sticking to it. This is the kind of leadership we need from both sides of the aisle ready to take on an issue of this power in importance and not worry about whether its going to be a problem for their political career and they're doing the job. We need more members of Congress to join them, I think that'll happen. And understand that all of this progress we have made in the last seven years is during one of the most difficult political eras in this country. One of the most intense political battles, contentious partisan times of our history some people say it's unprecedented

1:16:31 In spite of all of that, none which really has anything to do with the UAP issue. This issue is continued to advance year-to-year-to-year and so I'm suggesting that people who are frustrated and tired of being teased or upset because this witness isn't getting enough attention or why's there fraud out there focus on the progress that we've made, focus on how much has been accomplished and know that all this other stuff will get sorted out if we can just get into the post-disclosure world where all of the restraints are pretty much off and the truth now has a full field of play. And that will make it easier on all of us though I know that the controversy is good for the podcasters and that's fine with me because i totally support the podcast world

1:17:18 Right on. Well, hell of a pitch and I'm sorry if I was a little heated up today. This thing... I've been listening to it forever and I just want more! And I know you're not the guy who's responsible. It doesn't all lay at your feet. I can't hold you responsible for disclosure not happening but let's be a little more measured about the hype You know, I just want it to be accurate this time because i'm not going to get burned again. But I appreciate your time and your dedication thanks for spending the afternoon with me and take care. Enjoy let's do this again! I love this okay all right another one in the bag and this one with a legend in the disclosure space Stephen Bassett and don't worry don't worry I have calmed down now but

1:18:09 I get it. Yeah, I was fired up during that and the thing is I very much enjoyed Stephen Bassett's work over the years. I've listened to so many interviews. I encourage him on his mission but after we got about 30 minutes in and I looked at the clock and looked at my outline, I thought man i'm really going to have to get him to try to answer some of these questions a bit more directly or never gonna get through even a quarter of this stuff on this outline You know, I had a good path planned through several different aspects. I definitely wanted him specifically to talk about for your sake so I try not to over plan

1:18:48 But man, he was just taking the scenic route on getting to answering some of those first few things that I asked. And maybe the Epstein file analogy wasn't the best to come out of the gate with but i thought it was a fairly simple question and it's actually kind of deep when you start to think about it What really would they rather reveal if they had to reveal one, what is a bigger threat to the system itself depends on what you think is in those files. Right? Both both files. So I guess it's kind of an interesting one, but for a guy who has done as many interviews as Steven has, I just thought it was a unique way to jump into things and I think I still do. I just didn't expect it to be a recurring theme

1:19:32 And obviously I laid a lot of my ufology frustrations at Steven's feet, which isn't really fair. At all it's a mixed bag really because it's obviously not Steven's fault that we don't know more about UFOs or UAPS. I mean and government involvement in the whole thing overall clearly he has nothing to do with why there is such a frustrating crawl of information but He does bear some responsibility for the overhyping and repeatedly over-optimistic predictions and declarations that he's made. I understand the need to drum up support and interest, like i said those who were interested or have been interested early have gotten sick of the false promises and being strung along

1:20:25 And it's a fine line though, I guess between generating interest in something and keeping that interest alive when there is just so much competition for the publics attention. And over hyping something that just ends with more disappointment and people checking out obviously that's counterproductive to the mission its really probably really hard to thread that needle So I understand that even if it didn't sound like I did when we were getting into it I do think Steven is a character though. I appreciate his intention, but I just figured he would maybe have more to say about the phenomenon itself or you know what we have heard the details from the whistleblowers that have come out and how to assess them with the corpus of material that we have learned about for many years? I don't know. But if your primary goal is capital D disclosure

1:21:23 then I think you probably should do a little more independent research so that you have an idea of what they even have to disclose. But he's certainly dedicated, he's done a great job archiving a lot of great UFO history stuff when it comes to the Lawrence Rockefeller saga in particular I did think it was interesting to see that photo and be able to ask him about it directly, even though I'm probably a little more skeptical of it than almost everyone. I've asked about it. I still don't really have a strong opinion on Lawrence Rockefeller. I default too sketchy

1:22:02 But I've heard many times that he was the good Rockefeller, like Steven said. And it is totally possible. I don't exactly like guilty by association arguments right? Let's judge each person based on what they did not what family they were born into but even according to his Wikipedia it says Lawrence Rockefeller was an American businessman financier philanthropist and conservationalists And he was the third son and fourth child of John D Rockefeller Jr. As a trustee of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, He provided venture capital for Intel and Apple and many other successful tech startups. He was known for his involvement in wilderness protection ecology and protection of wildlife. His crusade was establishing a conservation ethic and he was declared America's leading conservationist by Lady Bird Johnson

1:22:59 In 1937, he inherited his grandfather's seat on the New York Stock Exchange. He served as the founding trustee of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund for 42 years from its inception in 1940 to 1982 During this time, he also served as president and later chairman of the group for 22 years longer than any other leader in the fund's history. He was also the founding trustee of The Rockefeller Family Fund from 1967 to 77 through his resort management company Rocca or Rock Resorts Inc., Rockefeller opened environmentally focused hotels at Kenil Bay and St John

1:23:43 the Virgin Islands, some properties of which were later turned out or turned over to the Virgin Islands National Park but also Virgin Gorda on the British Virgin Islands and Hawaii contributing to the movement now known as eco tourism. Well it's a nice thought that it was just about getting people out in nature I wonder what the locals and all those scenarios thought about building giant resorts on their land? Maybe they loved it. So I don't know he just doesn't seem entirely different than the rest of the clan He was the guy on the on the Rockefeller Brothers fund for over 40 years Whatever, but in the time since we recorded this and the time it's going out there has been a

1:24:35 An okay-sized development. I'm not going to start over hyping things now saying a big development, but Senator Luna was on the Joe Rogan experience talking about UFOs again she's seen pictures, but that's it to me? That's just not enough to be doing interviews about at least bring the pictures if you're able to talk about them and you've had these briefs on him and stuff, you know are we are we doing this thing or not basically, you know, I'm getting fired up again, but I was talking to Isaac Weishaupt about this interview and i did not pay much attention to it, barely skimmed it. Tried just tried to look at highlights of what was talked about well isaac said she mentions Enochian so now i have to go back she says that a couple times apparently and Joe just glosses over

1:25:22 So I have to go see what she was trying to get into that he didn't take the bait for. But it is funny that I started with the Epstein UFO dichotomy because she's supposedly in charge of both files, as Steven said and of course Rogan talks about Epstein on almost every episode except the one where he's talking to someone who actually is supposedly involved in assessing the case to some degree or something a lot of posturing going on about that file But there was also all this stuff with Chuck Schumer last year, all this posturing and I had it in my notes but I just didn't get to bring it up. But Chuck Schumer put out some tweets in December of 2023 that said House Republicans are trying to kill the Senate's bipartisan measure to increase transparency around UAPS

1:26:14 The measure I'm championing with Senator Rounds would create a board, always creating a board or committee or something. But they would create a board to work through the declassification of government records on UAPs. We will keep working to get this done he says." And i checked! He hasn't tweeted about anything like this. He hasn't used the term UAP or UFO since December 2023 It feels like the Epstein thing when the heat is on one party, the other party pretends that they're doing all they can to reveal it and they're being blocked by the other side. It's like a little game they play where they don't really ever talk about it when they're in charge but when they don't have the means to do anything then they grandstand about saying how we got to get this out and we would do it if we could but we know that's all bullshit another thing

1:27:10 Stephen Bassett has commented on a lot that we didn't get into the show was the Jersey drones He's convinced. They were non-human and I was on the side of them just being some kind of covert mission, but totally human because from what I heard they did use FAA light signals that were recognizable and common in that industry. And it was just some classified thing, but he thinks they were non-human that's also popular when it comes to what people are saying. But Tulsi Gabbard gave an interview where she said that she still has a lot of questions about those drones, but she did confirm that to her knowledge they weren't just over New Jersey in that region, but all over the country. And if the national

1:27:59 Intelligence director still has questions. It sounds like we do have a shadow government or breakaway civilization, or she's being coy about it but that's what I think has happened with a lot of this administration they talked so tough on the podcast circuit made a lot of bold claims and now that they're in the position They're like well i mean you know i said i would do this thing but it's complicated guys it's complicated yeah funny how that works out But I think the disappointment is at an all-time high because the claims and promises were so bold. Again, like if presidential nominees and candidates just basically ignore these things well we've gotten used to that but the bold promises is where it's like hold on now anyway uh yes I know I was a bit tough on Stephen but

1:28:51 I started by giving him all the room in the world to make his point. And eventually, I just had to shorten things up especially in The Plus Show. I know, I know, I kind of lost it but aren't you guys also annoyed with all the we're almost at the finish line talk? Because it doesn't seem to ever really get to any kind of finish line. The smallest micro movements are gushed over Way more than they should be but I guess Steven is doing all he can do and I thank him for his service. It is not his fault if you like the first free hour in our curious to see where things were going and the second hour we talked about

1:29:29 various other distractions that might be getting in the way of UAP disclosure, activism and public engagement. Why they're crucial to this effort? The pros and cons of the current political climate from a disclosure perspective, the involvement of congressional members in UAP issues we talked about funny, the senators from Florida and Missouri My two common places that are in my history. We just need a San Diego representative to get in the mess, but yeah apparently they are all being assigned the files of all the things we want to know and it's just right around the corner although saying there are four alien races on the record is pretty bold

1:30:17 We heard that years and years and years ago, but still it's on the record now. Now hear me I'm sounding like these guys who are celebrating the littlest movements. I'm just trying to find some silver lining you know? It's been a long time waiting for something to actually move on this anyway sign up for plus support truly independent and ad-free alternative media blah blah blah TheHigherSideChats.com Okay, enough qualifying for me. Let's go to the meetup calendar August 27th We got an event in Black Rock City Nevada at the Moonlight Collective Lounge September 7th LA at The Trails Cafe September 10th Dayton Ohio at the

1:31:03 Canal Street Arcade and Deli, and then September 15th going back to Gail Brath's Ale House Auckland New Zealand. Gotta love it! Great go to highersidemeetups.com for more details or to RSVP or to make your own local event And of course we cannot go until we've talked about the last show this is the one with Soraya Azkath of Where Did The Road Go? It's been bouncing all over the place, but right now I'm looking at a 4.4, a little rough and that's fine. I just don't know what percentage of the audience knows of Soraya show? I thought it was higher or how many people have been listening to this type of content you know, the paranormal stuff long enough to hear us go back and forth on various names in the field and not need added context because I would assume

1:31:57 That is why the ratings are low. And some people probably just don't love the paranormal episodes, that's fine too I guess there doesn't always have to be a reason it's okay that people just didn't like it and they were not entertained and didn't get anything out of it fair enough but I do feel a kinship with these people who have been riding along with me Long enough to now almost be the OGs of this space, cause the real OGs are dying or they kinda gave it up. It is what it is I guess Im just an old man now along with Soraya and I had a good time

1:32:37 get why it would land in the sure that was fine range, but either way we try to dip our toe back into paranormal. But it's just one of those things we don't solve it so we can either talk about the subculture itself and the major ideas within it or just get more stories I like doing both but not everyone feels like I do And that's basically all we got going on around here. Thanks for listening, join plus if you want more support 15 years of ad and sponsor free uncensored and uninterrupted interviews you know how it goes I'm getting out of here your move disclosure deniers UAP government gatekeepers in truth embargo enforcers

1:33:20 Your fucking move. It's been too long to hurry up and wait Some sort of big reveal should have been here by early from space Or some sort of demons, then give us some reason for all's dead cats Disclosures coming So they say The higher side chats doesn't play

1:33:58 Sugar-coated all and right away S misdirection Never ending search Crackle All the archives hate The jerk If something crashed Yet you gotta Well it's me Cause the fun But can disclosures come in so they spy aside chat? Does it sugarcoat us Misdirection Merge crackle onto the stick