Richard Merrick | Interference Theory, Ancient Culture, & The Venus Blueprint

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Hello again, Ironside Chatters. How the hell are you? Drinking a little drink smoking a little smoke just really letting the weight of today's show sink in I mean it's not that i didn't know the work of Freemasons and many ancient monuments contained complex architecture And It's not that I didn't know man used to get great insights from mapping the night sky and there are several other things we discussed That aren't exactly new ideas to me but its way they connect with so many main THC topics They really got me pumped up

00:58 Psychedelic exploration, magic, symbolism, secret societies, the eradication of ancient knowledge. It's all there and I won't waste any more time prefacing you know i like to get to the point around here? I had hoped to get a message from the money bomb winner on this show but I didn't want to make you wait any longer so maybe next week but a listener named Andrew got 274 bucks which is half of this month's donations. Hopefully that relieves a little of Andrews stress or contributes to the beating back one of the squid power oily tentacles in his world Also, to play us in this week I got a new piece of transition music sent me by a band called The Plate Scrapers I really like it and love when bands are cool enough to put together a little 1 minute ditty about THC that I can use for these purposes

01:41 So, big thanks to the plate scrapers. I hope you like it! But with that said...I gotta get this show on the road so pack your glass and park your ass people because this is deep stuff and i think you'll all come out of the other side with some aha moments well worth your time. So let's do the damn thing interference theory musical perception harmonic sciences sacred geometry psychonautics archaeoacoustic the venus blueprint in a kitchen sink with Richard Murphy Enjoy. Alright people, if there's one thing we know it is that we don't know much. A lot of our history has been lost or suppressed with endless sagas of people conquered their culture and knowledge buried forced at the end of a gun to adopt customs of the new authority on top layers manipulation in culture shaping propaganda narratives It's really hard to get a clear idea of the past without some serious research

02:58 Lucky for us, today's guest Richard Merrick has done one hell of a job uncovering some major areas of mystery by connecting things like suppressed sciences, sacred geometry, masonic symbolism, musical perception, psychedelics and several other major threads to weave together clearer picture of the past and a better understanding of things they'd rather we didn't know. He's laid out most of his discoveries in his brilliant books, Interference available for free on his website and the follow up The Venus Blueprint it's exciting stuff and has definitely affected the way I see the past forever And...I think it might just have the same effect on you guys So let's do the damn thing Richard my man welcome to THC Hey Greg very glad to be with you today

03:37 Yeah, thanks for doing this. I was made aware of your work via a guest request and i'm so glad because you really make a compelling case for answering some of the mysteries of the past and the nature of reality—a section of science we don't hear about much—through this study of musical perception, this geometric approach to music that you call harmonic interference theory. It's a super interesting explanation, I guess this is where we should start because it can be pretty dense but let's walk the people through this work of yours tell us about harmonic interference theory and this path that led up to it what were some of the initial curiosities that fueled this fire for you?

04:13 So about 35 years ago or so I was a young musician and learning music theory and taking classes in university on different approaches to music theory. In the process, I began to question much of what I was taught it just didn't hang together well it was all based on tradition as I came to find out it was based on the Roman Catholic Church tradition of sacred music. And there was a lot of smart people that were hypothesizing different

04:50 different reasons for why music sounded good to us and why we enjoyed it, why it triggered emotions and things like that. But none of that really seemed to connect with the historical development of music over thousands of years and you know what I was learning in contemporary jazz at the time as well so...I had a professor in university that was giving a course on pre-Baroque counterpoint. It's also called Renaissance counterpoint, so that's the music or the way music was written in the church for sacred music prior to Johann Sebastian Bach for instance before the Baroque period and there were all these rules and so I asked

05:40 the professor, why so many rules? How did they come up with these rules? What were the purpose of the rules?" You know things like that. Why were rules like this required to create sacred music and he avoided the question and I asked it again in class and finally said well if you'll stay after class i'll be happy to answer your question And so I stayed behind. There was a couple other people that were curious as well, and I said so what is it? Why why so many rules? He said well it's all based on one idea and that is What the church called Diabolus in Musica or the devil in music. And he said this is the tritone which is interval That has one half of an octave

06:24 He said that the church fathers felt that this was evil, an evil interval and it was literally the devil incarnate in music. And that in order to play music in the church you had to eliminate the tritone, the devil. So all these rules were about avoiding the devil in music and that's what we're learning. You can trace them all back to that So well, that's you know that is really interesting and yeah And I thought it was it was really fascinating given that. I was being taught the tritone as Being a central part of jazz in my jazz music. I thought well isn't that interesting? That in that for 1500 years Yeah certainly at least 1200 years The Tritone had been The scourge of music it was

07:17 It was the thing to be taken out of the sacred music of the Catholic Church and here we were in modern times, and we're being taught that it's the central component of music. In modern music theory it is called the tritone function and it's considered a central functioning element in music, modern music And so I wondered immediately, started asking questions. Why? What changed? How did it go from being despised to being loved? Where did that occur in history and then the second question was what does that have to do with our perception of music? Why is it that it sounds good to us now but to them it didn't right and So those questions led to a series of threads of inquiry

08:05 that have led to development of harmonic interference theory, which has as a central element the tritone function. And all of that led to deeper and deeper discoveries of how harmonic theory was the center point of the development of religion music was always a central element, one of the central elements in religion and it was really cornerstone of Catholic ritual and sanctification. And you know in a sense through music trying to expel the devil from people's psyche. Hmm. So it is interesting that musical interval would have such a core

08:54 a role in the Catholic Church. And so anyway, that's where it all began for me. Yeah, that's interesting and then of course this Led you down a path that's way more into the scientific realm kind of the science of music and music perception And it's just something that I guess I always took for granted But it does come up with a lot of guests that there might have been some old sound technology That the ancients used for, uh, you know one speculative purpose or another but But it seems like when the Roman Catholic Church comes up and gets involved, they changed a lot of things. And hiding this might have been one of them I guess right? It was! If you played or sang a tritone interval

09:41 you could be punished. And I thought when I wrote my first book, Interference, I thought that maybe it... When i was starting to write and going into it the first thing I wanted to know is how did the rules get started? How do they anti-tritone rules gets started and when were they overthrown or when did they fall out of favor? My hunch was that Bach had something to do with it and indeed he did. The Baroque music corresponds to the Reformation, you know the Protestant Reformation. And so it was in Germany where the Reformation got started with Martin Luther and that's when they disconnected from the papal rule or from the Pope and began to develop their own version of Christianity away from the Roman Church

10:39 And it was at that point that Bach and his family really were developing Baroque music, which Baroque actually means broke. It means irregular pearl or something that is incorrect and so from the church point of view, Baroque music was broken literally. And the reason it was broken was because Bach started introducing in greater and greater numbers tritones into his music, into his sacred music that was played in the Protestant churches of Germany and spread westward across Europe

11:18 So it's interesting that that's where the tritone was sort of set free and became, created the foundation for Western music after that. But it also pushed me back further to say well did the Roman Church invent this idea that the tritone was evil? Or did it precede the church in some way? And of course, it did precede the church. Before Christianity, the Romans had conquered Greece and people who have studied ancient Greece they will know that music played a big part

11:56 the philosophy behind the Greek civilization and it was a major part of law. I mean, they legislated what kind of scales you know how many strings a lute could have that kind of thing and the person who is credited with creating the foundation of those laws was Pythagoras because Pythagoras is the one who discovered a lot of things about music. You know, the idea that you had this encyclophale, he's the one who created or at least was part of the development of these Greek scales or modes and the development those from something called tetrachords

12:41 either conjunctive or disjunctive tetrachords. Anyway, there's a whole story there that I'll talk about towards the beginning of interference as to how our scales that we have today began And at the center of that development between what was called conjunctive tetrachords and disjunctive, was the tritone. And he is credited with discovering that the tritone is incommiserable or it they could not create a tritone or middle, they couldn't split the octave in the middle where the tritone is using simple harmonic proportions like other intervals and scales. And so the Pythagoreans and Greeks in general played to later they all felt that there was an error in the universe as a result

13:37 this error was located at the tritone. There was like a crack in, you know, the cosmic void and that it was evil and to the Pythagoreans you couldn't even mention this... they called it the schism or the split. And they couldn't reconcile with their philosophy so it was against the rules to mention it. It was heresy to mention it And so to me that's kind of, okay maybe that's where it started. It turns out that there is probably...that he probably learned about that from much older sources I mean there is some evidence going back even 1400 years before Pythagoras

14:21 to where they were beginning to recognize this or discover it in the tracing planets and their rhythms and so forth. It's not just a Catholic Church issue, you know? It goes back into ancient history and ancient philosophy and is in many ways the foundation of the idea that there is evil, you know. That there's a dualism in the universe between good and evil. Right And this sort of broke the harmony of the world now All that started raising questions for me that said okay if this is true how does that play into human perception? Mm-hmm

15:06 because the Catholic Church would say, oh that interval is inside your head. It's inside everything and so it's inside your mind, your psyche and your body. And the same kind of questions come up in various scientific disciplines as well where there's you know, something called free space or various kinds of... I don't know. There's a whole subject there to go down that you don't want to get bogged down in it but sure but there is this idea that not everything is harmonic not everything can be described by simple

15:45 harmonic proportions, and that's where things like the golden ratio and Fibonacci series spirals come into play. Because when you think about harmonics you're really thinking about resonant points where simple ratios interfere to create a resonant pattern And the opposite of that is where there's what's called damping, where resonance is minimized or it's killed. So you can find hints of this idea of harmonic resonance and damping as being opposites in mythology especially Greek mythology they were aware that

16:27 there was silence in between the sound. Interesting! And so, a lot of philosophical things like that but... That really is the foundation of harmonic interference theory because what I ended up...I had to deprogram myself along the way honestly. That was a big part of trying to break through some these hard problems is too not assume anything you know any place where you might have an assumption You need to step back and ask, you know why do you assume that? And I had this sort of breakthrough that Western science seems to...and this includes the study of music perception. That Western sciences all focused on the foreground energy patterns

17:13 They don't pay any attention to the silent gaps in between the sound. They don't realize that there's a field of silence that all this patterning is playing out on and that there's a foreground background to be considered, not just a foreground. Right! Which was kind of stunning and I found that wave theory as it's taught in the universities you know which would use Fourier analysis and all the methods associated with that as being nothing but a way to look at the foreground energy patterns

17:52 And there was no interest in the patterns, the gaps and the patterns behind that. That were also perfectly recognizable if you just think about your eardrum or inside of your the basilar membrane inside your ear that recognizes things, there's no reason why the gaps between the energy wouldn't be just as recognizable as the energy itself. And that's what kind of opened up a view for me of how to explain the entire history of music harmony and melody and perception

18:32 with the way the ear is organized and the brain is organized. And I came up with an equation called, you know, the interference function that is a simplified way of expressing what science calls the Gaussian derivative distribution. And hardly anybody pays any attention to that particular thing but you know I'm looking out my window right now up in the mountains in Colorado and look at my windows see mountains that are shaped just like this. this Gaussian distribution, which I ended up finding to be the distribution of resonance across an octave in music. So there is this idea that when things resonate they create a standing wave or a wave that's vibrating and resonating and within that resonating wave forms harmonic waves or what are called wave partials

19:32 And those partials are whole numbers. They're twice the frequency of the primary wave, or they're three times or four times or five times and The big question to ask is how does it know to do that? You know, hmm How does how do harmonics know how to form. Well, do they make decisions? Of course not! They don't make decisions there is a physics at work underneath all of this anything that's vibrating reflecting and vibrating like a guitar string there's some physics at work that force these sympathetic waves to form and science has not done a good job of answering that. If you were to look that up right now, Google it, you'd find lot of information about harmonics but you wouldn't find much about

20:25 If anything about how harmonics form, why do they form that way? You know Why aren't there multiple waves multiple of 1.5 or 2.3 or 4.2 No They're all even multiples and so the question you know The fundamental question to answer in order to begin understanding How music is perceived and this really means how anything is perceived is to explain the process by which harmonics form. Big, big question huge question really because it's at the core of everything you see yeah Everything all atoms are little standing waves they're all resonating right and All matter is made up of these little resonant atoms You know resonating with each other in different ways and creating patterns you know crystallizing into minerals

21:20 liquid crystals of biological, you know plant life and so forth. Right! And so the fundamental question if you can answer why harmonics form in a resonant cavity then you know your at the core question. You're beginning to understand the physics of space and time and that sort of thing. So it becomes quickly not just a question musical tradition or musical perception, it becomes a question of how reality exists at all. Right consciousness and matter and yeah basically everything Everything! And it all comes down to how do harmonics form? Because that's how structure forms mm-hmm

22:06 When I found a spectral analysis, it's called the Blackman Spectral Analysis that a musicologist up in Indiana had put together and I found his research. And he had done an analysis of two tones, two musical tones separating you know at in a smooth pattern, a smooth sweep from a unison to an octave. So imagine one tone being held on let's say, C then another tone starting on that same C, but then steadily increasing or sweeping up to the octave above that C. Very very super simple! But when you do an analysis of that... a visual analysis of it.. You find that there's little patterns that are pattern forms over that over that octave and

23:04 and that there are points along that pattern where you hit these simple harmonic proportions, these simple harmonic ratios and a little gap or pattern forms. A vertical gap in the analysis and when you look at the distribution of those gaps, those harmonic gaps it forms this Gaussian derivative that I mentioned. Interesting! Yeah... And so its natural pattern its what happens when you are able to see all of the harmonics interfere with one another over an octave. I'd never seen anything like that because music theory had been separated from science hundreds of years ago, basically during the Enlightenment which I tend to call The Endarkenment because we gained some things but we lost some pretty fundamental things too and it's...the move towards

24:00 scientific rationalism was deeply involved with an avoidance of offending the church, you know. Otherwise you might get tortured and imprisoned like Galileo. And I'm wondering sometimes if this reluctance to offend the Church or the Church labeling something like the Triton as the devil in music... at the top, are they really that superstitious or are they just trying to hide breadcrumbs to understanding our reality and how consciousness works? Because we say this dovetails into so many different areas. And we've talked often about a section of science that seems to be quarantined, a section of physics that seems to be involving not

24:42 not only electro-gravity, but also resonance and music. And I guess that's my question for you when you look back and you see that they once were a lot more clued in to these kind of things than we are today do you think it's an accident that we stumbled into ignorance or was this a calculated play to kind of change the way people think? Well, the Roman church again it goes back to them trying to create sacred music and to create a catharsis or a purity. And that goes back to long before the Catholic Church, where the idea is that you're trying to create nothing but good...that you're trying to purify the world and purify people's minds and help them attain a higher mode of thought. It seems like the right thing to do! It seems like the good thing to do

25:42 because you're getting rid of evil thoughts. Think about the dark ages, you just had nothing but marauders killing everybody and ravaging your villages and your civilization... And it just happened over and over again so its understandable that there would be a desire and the emergence of a power like the Roman Church that came out of the Roman Empire, which fell. And they were basically instead of using brute force they were using mind control and trying to change people's beliefs

26:20 about what was acceptable behavior and connecting their behavior then to entrance into the kingdom of heaven or whatever. So it's understandable why and how that would occur, it is extenuating circumstances and music was a key component of that because it was the philosophical embodiment of physics to try to create a pure sacred space The problem comes, though, that when you realize what they were doing was creating something unnatural. It's not natural to have only one half of the universe

26:59 you know, the equation. The truth of the matter is that the tritone with all the fear and loathing that was connected with it is a part of nature and its critical part in nature. And without it as I came to find out you wouldn't have the kind of order and containment of resonance that you need to keep things from just exploding apart, you know? That's philosophically represented in music, the way that tritone actually functions. It's essentially the juxtaposition of a circle which is periodic and that's where order comes from and the spiral which is this infinite

27:38 curve into, you know either the macro or the micro. And so it's a balance between the circle and spiral and that was said by the Greek philosopher Philolaus would say that, he would say that its finite in the infinite were represented by the circle and spiral. What I found in this Gaussian distribution was when balance the harmonic series against the Fibonacci series, you get the curve this distribution of that is this Gaussian derivative curve. That's essentially like a mountain not an equal mountain but a mountain that has a hump on one side and then gradually attenuates

28:25 down into infinity. And so, there is something very natural about the fact that both are involved in the construction of nature one wants to explode the other one wants to damp or contain and the balance between those is where we are. Yeah! But now going back to your... The question about what happened in effect how did all this get sort of suppressed It wasn't just the Church that suppressed it, at least relative to our current modern day. It was what I call complicity of convenience between the early scientists and the church because as everybody knows Galileo was denounced and imprisoned basically cast out

29:16 diminished by the church for his belief that the Sun, you know the heliocentric theory that the Sun was at the center of our solar system rather than the earth. And there was a bunch of other things all of that was viewed by the Roman Church as heresy but very specific more like pagan religion because paganism which would be anything other than Christianity in the church's view was largely founded on natural observation of nature. It was based on musical concepts, it was based upon astrological concepts

30:01 And the Roman Church was trying to separate itself from the astrotheologies that had preceded it. And central to that, from a scientific point of view was harmonic theory which science was primarily focused on. I mean, if you think about it music and musical vibration as well as planetary patterns are the most accessible aspects of physics and you can observe those. And so those were things that the church was suppressing The scientists, Kepler and Galileo and even Carl Gauss where the Gaussian distribution is named after. All of these guys were trying to avoid... well they were Christians to begin with because everybody around them it was required

30:55 So they were trying to maintain their own personal lives and their own personal reputation, and make a living and so forth like any scientist today is. And at the same time they're trying to answer these burning questions that they had about reality about the world around them and harmonic concepts were a big part of that there was this complicity between those early natural philosophers, alchemists scientists whatever you want to call them and the Roman Church. They believed in God they believed in Jesus as the personal Savior at least they would say that in public but at the same time they were trying to be truthful to themselves and so

31:41 there were certain things they wouldn't talk about and what they learned to avoid were things that were explicitly related to harmonic theory because again the Roman Church built their whole idea of sacred space and Catholic purity around this idea that they're going to... They're not gonna reveal what the tritone is or how it plays in music theory, perception, structure of life and things like that. So that's why science has avoided it and the way it avoided was very pragmatic It was let's just divide up

32:28 areas of study so that people can specialize in these different areas and we won't integrate it into the big picture, which is what harmonic theory does. Right It integrates whereas science based on the root syne or like a scythe it cuts it divides Damn And that's what science is...is an avoidance strategy to avoid offending the church Damn I love that. So, I do want to fast forward a little bit to the Venus blueprint section because that's amazing stuff but first let me ask you how this kind of jives with string theory or the holographic universe theories? That seems to be an idea this...that vibration brings matter into existence it seems to be kind of on the forefront of fringe scientific understanding at the very least it seems pretty related

33:21 Yes, it is completely related. It's all the same thing I mean and to this last point i just made quantum mechanics which really emerged you know in the 1920s and 30s in terms of its developing many of the core principles, it's all based upon this idea of standing waves and you know resonator... we have this resonator model of reflected waves within a box and that everything really in harmonic or in quantum theory is based on this resonance model. So all that is, is a encodification

34:02 and a rather obtuse set of equations and approaches that are all really this ancient harmonic theory just sort of couched in a new language that again religious people, the church wouldn't really understand. And I would say that from alchemists you know through the development of science that these languages these formal languages The became very popular and now is you know standard in every field of science came out of this avoidance strategy if u,

34:42 speak it, then if somebody in the church happened to get their hands on your paper they would look at that and wouldn't have a clue what you're saying. Right And of course you could befuddle them if they ever really got you in a corner and say oh no one's saying this or that... You could completely defend yourself! So that's really where a lot of this came from I mean the early scientific papers that were being distributed through Europe, were being distributed through the Masonic Brotherhood. Yeah... That was going to be one of my next questions Is this where we see kind of secret societies taking things like sacred geometry or sacred knowledge? is this the kind of information that we see them trying to keep alive covertly under the radar Yes and thats where these mathematics and other formulaic languages

35:35 and formalisms, you know really were a help so that the people who had the knowledge who were trained in the art let's say would be able to understand what these papers were but if they fell into wrong hands it really couldn't be used The Inquisition, you know couldn't be called in because they wouldn't really know what's going on. They wouldn't understand it Yeah yeah I love that element to it. I love the secrecy of it So if we can let's talk about the Venus blueprint. This is where your study of interference theory You started to recognize this in architecture and I think this is kind of where it started at the Roslin Chapel right?

36:16 Yeah, well that actually the Roslyn Chapel thing I was in the middle of writing the first book interference and you know it's kind of blowing my mind as I'm You can imagine. I'm hitting these little walls of what's going on here? And then breaking through them and realizing that That there was information That was definitely being had been suppressed again through this either complicity or explicit And so then suddenly I see this press release that came out of Scotland, out of Edinburgh Scotland about this father-son team Thomas and Stuart Mitchell who had decoded these patterns that were carved into the arches of Roslyn Chapel. Nobody had any idea what those little patterns were or what they meant but they were little cubes

37:15 literally cubic stone Things that had pattern on them that were like little arms that were holding them out from the arches It's just go online and Google Roslyn Chapel Cubes, and you'll you'll see what I mean. And sorry when was the Roslyn Chapel built so we have Yes it was built in the 15th century started around the middle believe is 1446 or 1450 When it was started and it was completed Couple of decades later. Okay, and it was it was built by the Well, it was built on the land that Was owned by? The Sinclair family

38:01 if you're, or St. Clair but they're what we call Sinclair and if you are familiar with the Sinclair oil, you know the old Sinclair gas stations that was related to that family up there and the chapel itself was designed however by a man by the name of Sir Gilbert Hay and his last name is is interesting in that you find out that it's an Armenian name. It's, you know, Haig was a Armenian king and so there's this noble bloodline thing that you start getting into and you find the Sinclairs and the Hayes were related if you go far enough back And they're related to royal families in Europe

38:52 And that Sir Gilbert Hay was very, he had been the Chamberlain which is kind of like a secretary to this man by the name of Rene de Anjou who was the titular king of Jerusalem. You know, he was entitled... He was the King of Jerusalem but he was you know like the I forget all his titles but like the King of Aragon it reads like some kind of a mythical medieval story but he really was tied

39:27 to all these different bloodlines and had all these noble things. The problem is he didn't have any real power, he did have money and so Gilbert Hay who actually fought alongside Joan of Arc by the way was actually a poet And that was his big thing. But back then, poets were a lot more than poets are today. Poets were sort of the keeper of... I mean they were writers but they were considered sort of the ultimate artists and philosophers. Yeah. So Gilbert Hay went to be a tutor to the Sinclair children

40:13 in Edinburgh or outside of Edinburgh where Roslyn is and the Roslyn Castle was and so forth at the time. And between the two of them Sinclair and Hay, they decided to build this Roslyn Chapel as a collegiate chapel to St Matthew however all that is very you know basically just to avoid the ire of the church because yeah when you look the actual symbolisms and what are built into the chapel, you realize that it's teaching you more than just about Christianity. It's really teaching you the entire history and origin of religion in general. Yeah man I think this is just so fascinating!

41:00 get you off track, but we were talking about the I guess the thing that unlocked it for you was looking at these inscriptions on the archways? Yes those so those patterns. So the Mitchells had decoded those as cymatic patterns what's called cymatics they're also called schladny patterns and These are patterns that form when you have a plate or a container of liquid, either one. And actually it works with gas and plasma and other things It doesn't matter the medium as much as it matters that there's a container some sort

41:39 and within it is a medium that when it's vibrated, will create certain patterns at different frequencies. So if you're dealing with square patterns which is what the cubes in Rosalind Chapel exhibit you would create for instance get a square piece of metal balance on...in the center of that on a little thin pole or something and then sprinkle dusters or powder or sand onto the plate and then vibrate the edge of the plate with Let's say a bow, a violin bow. Gotcha And that when you do that and depending on the frequencies that you get it will create different patterns That's because different harmonic combinations

42:25 in a vibrating medium like that will create different geometries. This is where sacred geometry originated, it's from sound patterns and from just explorations of circles and squares and triangles which again can be produced by sonic patterns So this is clearly how you could encode music in a geometric form because it always, whatever tone you play always makes the same pattern right? Well it does as long as you're in the same container. Okay okay same environment Yes exactly because this is the thing a lot of people don't really realize or even admit when they're talking about and that is that if you had larger smaller containers

43:19 deeper or more shallow water in it, or had a different you know like glycerin or mercury. I mean different viscosities of liquid...I mean all those things affect and the shape of the container all those things affect the kind of patterns that will form but once you have a particular container let's say like a cube or square at that size then each frequency will, you know different frequencies will form specific patterns and it can be repeated forever. Well these cubes each had a different pattern and they as they played out through the arches there was a melody that the Mitchells found by comparing them to to these cymatic you know patterns mm-hmm And then they got the melody

44:13 They wrote a piece of music that they called the Rosalind Motet, that had that pattern. And they would perform it in Rosalind Chapel and still do occasionally I was there during one performance and is pretty amazing But at any rate when I saw that press release immediately realized okay there's something going on here connection between the physics of sound and the history of religion. Yeah, right? I was like oh wow this is great so i got in contact with Stuart and we began to correspond and he would share things that he had found then I would share things that I'd found them so we kind of collaborated that way and it was through that collaboration then I began to write The Venus Blueprint and part of that was going visiting

45:04 him and some other people in Edinburgh, and made a pilgrimage to Roslyn to see all this for myself. And I write about all that in The Venus Blueprint So that's kind of the difference between that book and probably other books on ancient civilizations or even medieval is it not just a book about oh you know this...I'm teaching you this..I'm telling you this....it was more my real-time writing of my discoveries as I went and my reasoning and logic. And so people who read that can participate in the discovery that I was at the time, and it's a much more fun approach to do that but its also for me writing my thoughts down much like a diary

45:56 it's easier to trace and bring myself along, even when I read it again or somebody else. To bring myself along through this discovery process that ultimately led to some things that I had no particular interest in studying or had no clue were connected and one of them is the relationship between the acoustics of Roslyn Chapel or any cathedral or ancient temple, things like that. And there's a whole field called psychoacoustics or archaeo- acoustics that is developing right now in various universities. A lot of studies have been done through the 90s in particular and studying the acoustics at different temples

46:47 And then connecting that, as I came to find out with the architectural design of the space. Why are these different temples and cathedrals and so forth developed according to certain architectures? Well, that's where you know the acoustics come in but then there's sacred geometries involved. Well There's a connection between these geometrical these harmonic geometries as I call them and The harmonic acoustics that are contained within them. So they're not separate disciplines They're really one

47:27 I just love this study and, give the listeners an example of how does this play out in Roslyn Chapel with something called the double square geometry? Yeah. So there's really a variety of sacred geometries that encompass and define the outer and internal geometries and architectures of Roslyn Chapel. And that's really part of its collegiate teaching value, I think that Sinclair and Hay put into it. You can for instance overlay the Vitruvian man you know the circle in square...the squaring of a circle as they call it

48:11 and the human body proportions that da Vinci, you know made very popular but that was actually originally developed by a Roman architect named Vitruvius in 100 AD. And he...you know that geometry overlays with other types of sacred geometry there's just a whole layer after layer of different harmonic geometries that can be found in Rosalind Chapel. And at the center of all those geometries is this, as you mentioned the double square well all a double square means is that you know have a square and then you just duplicate that square and tack it on to one of the edges so that you have a rectangle that is in dimensions

49:04 you know, one by two. And it turns out that if you go back you find this double square repeated in other ancient temples that... You know, first of all, you find them in a lot of cathedrals throughout Europe and different multiples but, you know, you find them in ancient temples as well and when you go back you'll find that the King's Chamber in The Great Pyramid is a double square And so it goes far back and you say, well what's the special properties of this double square? What you find is that the diagonal of the double square is in proportion to the square root of 5. To the lengths or sides of the rectangle. And a square root of five

49:59 is where the golden ratio is determined. You know, 1 plus square root of 5 divided by 2 is this golden ratio which is a constant of nature. It's found everywhere through nature. And by the way, as an aside it's often avoided as much as possible by science I mean it still emerges and its admitted to be you know a major constant but you know science has not done a good job of integrating that into their curriculum or the world view because it is

50:36 it may be found at all scales but it's not used to integrate the different scientific disciplines even though I could be so an interesting you know result or downstream effect of this avoidance strategy began several hundred years ago well so anyway back to Rosalind the reason that square root of 5 is a diagonal is so important because like the golden ratio, acoustically it is a dampening proportion. Waves cannot propagate when they are close to a golden section in terms of you know if you had one wave resonating at one frequency and then you tried to introduce a frequency that's at a golden ratio to that first frequency it'll kill the wave

51:33 Interesting. So is this somehow connected to the underlying usage of the pentagram? Yes, exactly! So every intersection when you create a little pentagram... that's one of the first things you learn when your kid is how to draw a pentagram by connecting these five dots it turns out that every intersection of a pentagram is a golden ratio And the square root of 5 is found, I mean that's why the golden ratio is related to the square root of five. It's through this pentagram geometry and of course the Roman Church as everybody knows and you see it in pop culture everywhere is that this pentagram is a symbol for

52:23 witchcraft, you know? Right. And if this is the dampener and this is what the Catholic Church wanted to get rid of... Yes! ...that's why the pentagram is bad. Yes exactly okay so in pop culture you see and I guess in many Wiccan ceremonies as well you'd stand inside the pentagram and it would protect you from evil spirits It would allow you to control them Well one of Solomon's key his lesser key was a pentagram And all of his pentacles, as he called them were ways of controlling these elemental spirits. Calling them up and then trapping them inside this pentagram and controlling him you know? Well isn't it interesting if you just want to think about okay

53:14 Why is it we have these pentagrams on our flags and why does Macy's have a pentagram? You know, why is there the Pentagon as the shape of the building for military strategy and headquarters or whatever in the US. You could keep going down the list. If you go back in history, you find the pentagram was associated with human body and health in the human body that was it was associated with the five wounds of Jesus and all kinds of connections to the pentagram. And in fact, you can go back into

53:52 there are Sumerian artifacts of pentagrams that are identified with the goddess Venus. Well, interestingly Venus traces out a pentacle it's a rose sort-of thing, rose shape and that's essentially nested pentagrams in the sky and its resonance pattern with Earth And that is something you've said before, and this to get back to the Roslyn Chapel. You say it creates like a rose pattern and this is where they get the name I guess right? Yes! Yeah The Rose Line That's right Roslyn also

54:33 Rosabelle, you know, and a variety of different names related to this rose concept. And in fact you have the Tudor Rose, you know, the royal lineages in England and so forth... There's all these connections back now too then the various goddesses associated with Venus And there's a long line of goddesses associated with Venus. And it gets into various other symbolisms, you know such as the Phoenix and just a whole host of symbolisms that connect it with resurrection and rebirth. And that's because the evening star, you know, Venus... The morning star was considered

55:20 the mother and it resurrected the Sun in the morning because it would rise above the horizon before the Sun as the torch, and that's where we get the Liberty Torch. And in evening, the Evening Star which was also Venus would take the sun down into the underworld you know, when the Sun goes down under the world it's in the underworld. And it would bring life! It was a way of bestowing life to the Sun and the Underworld, you know? To keep it alive. Yeah... And so this idea of the pentagram and the rose connected with Venus and the goddesses, various goddesses of Venus are at the foundation of religion. And it turns out that the foundation of how

56:09 harmonics, you know harmonics form and the double square. You know so I'm drawing a variety of different things together through this number five the square root of 5 golden ratio The golden ratio being in the pentagram the symbolism of the pentagram the resonance of an actual planet Yeah, it's a lot of times yeah Yeah, and so there's this huge historic connection but there is a physics connection too. And it has to do with the role of square root of 5 and golden ratio as a damping container. That's really key term damping container I'll illustrate that in something that lot people have experienced probably don't realize The whole tradition of creating speaker enclosures for stereos

57:02 for music follows the proportions of golden ratio it might be one you know the goal ratios 1.618033 and goes on there's just an infinite non repeating number but you can get close to it and still have the same deadening effect and so for instance 1.62 would still create a deadening effect what you'd call an echoic, non-echoing proportion where you don't get feedback or reverberation. Well these the art of creating speaker enclosures usually has often traditionally used proportions 1 by 0.6

57:50 to buy 1.62 in terms of length, width and depth. And the reason that they would use those proportions as opposed to any other proportion is because standing waves, harmonics and resonances won't form inside that. It will kill them. And so you get a very pure sound when you use the speaker enclosure that is built according to going ratio Same thing for auditoriums but most auditorium aren't build that way anymore ancient ones were Cathedrals and so forth would use this double square as an approximation or as a reasonable approximation for you know, An ideal echoic chamber. Okay So just to connect a few things for people who are listening You know your second book is called the Venus blueprint because you discovered that Roslyn Chapel has coded in it The pattern of Venus this uh this rose line the Roslyn Chapel yes And then

58:50 through this expression of this pattern they actually get Geometry that creates acoustics in the room that make it easier to talk and has less echo And I think that's so fascinating that this can all be extrapolated from mapping The path of Venus in the sky. Yeah, it's stunning It's stunning to me. It was stunning that I hadn't really read that anywhere, you know? Right Because it seemed so obvious and so completely integrated And by the way There is a pillar at the center of what is called The Holy Of Holies of Roslyn Chapel and at the top are musical angels playing instruments Guess what they're sitting on They're sitting on pentagrams Huh That are carved into the stone

59:38 So the music is being, is literally resonating on the foundation of this deadening feature of the pentagram. It puts the pentagram in a whole new light it really gives a lot of clarity to that man Yeah yeah it does and and The interesting thing is that since there is this sort of pentagram as part of these layerings of sacred geometry that you'll find integrated into the design of Roslyn, that within that pentagram is this double square with the square root of five. And and that is the dimensions of the interior of the chapel and it creates a wonderful... The other thing that's interesting is that they explicitly then create what's called the choir area at the chapel which is like

1:00:31 has a higher ceiling over where the majority of the congregation would sit and that higher choir area is exactly, I mean it's exact as you can get without you know it being an infinite number. It's the golden ratio to the length of the chapel so you've got a double square that creates this horizontal clean resonance But then you've got this golden ratio choir to the ceiling height. And the effect is just stunning when you're actually in there and I didn't know what to expect

1:01:16 when I went there a second time and participated in a seminar at the Rosalind Hotel which is just down the road, and then spoke also again in the chapel itself. And then they did a concert of the Rosalind Motet and some other music...and I purposefully went to the back chapel in the center and stood there while the music played, in order to try to see what kind of acoustical effect it would have. And the effect was...it sounded like the musicians were first of all directly in front of the congregation at that was called is kinda not the Holy of Holies area but

1:02:06 the area that is at the end of the... far end to the choir. It's sort a secondary altar where they do most of, if not all, of the actual services that they still hold there and that's where the musicians are set up and I'm standing there facing them and when their playing like their music doesn't sound like it's coming from them at all in fact its as if They're either motioning and the music is coming from above. It's resonating up inside this choir area that's at a golden ratio, you know to the double square And it's raining down on you so it sounds like the music is coming down

1:02:52 from heaven. That's the effect that this thing was designed to create and the way it does it is that the music disperses and is deadened down in this double square area but it resonates up inside the choir area which has a different dimension than actually resonates more then the lower part, so since its resonating so much of there it still disperses downward and it overwhelms the deader area down below. And so, sounds like the music is being sucked up into this choir area and then pushed back down as if it were coming from the sky

1:03:35 Man that is a bit trippy and this is super fascinating speaking of trippy because this is where it gets into cuz. This really just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the study of, well using resonance and vibration to alter consciousness. You know we're talking about a chapel that has an area called The Altar and you've actually talked like...you've uncovered a whole lot of stuff I bet you didn't expect this to dovetail into psychedelics but it seems like that's an integral part of the stuff as well in the past right? It is because here's what happened i got to this point

1:04:14 I've described of, you know understanding the geometry and the acoustics and the symbolisms Of The Chapel. And then just as i had done up to that point, I asked the next question which was why are they doing this? Yeah Okay It's like most people would probably stop and say, well they like the acoustical symbolism of music coming down from heaven. You know they like the idea of harmonic geometry and all integrated in with music because part of what I hadn't explained is that there's actually a sort of musical scale aspect to the layout of that double square it's like an octave you know

1:05:00 12 step octave and so there's symbolisms in the placement of the pillars along those ways. It is just absolutely stunning, and the spires on the outside... There are other symbolisms but I asked the question, okay so they're clearly trying to sort of in a metaphysical way and a way that most people would never be aware using music and acoustics and frequency and things like that. To create more...I guess aid in prayer and meditation you know? They make it a meditative environment, a sacred space And I just ask why

1:05:41 Why are they doing that? And so by asking that question and integrating that with some other sort of key terms that I began to pull up some scientific papers, you know through Google that had discovered that there were certain frequencies that would be used in ancient incubation chambers which would be underground facilities. That are thousands of years old and the ancient practice philosophers and even

1:06:18 churches, you know Roman churches they would try to simulate these caves and underground chambers where things could resonate well. So somebody could chant it would resonate throughout the structure and they would use entheogens they would use some sort of teacher plants or fungus mushrooms and things like that aid in you know, meditation or to open up the heavens or whatever. To alter state of reality and so I began to realize well my God then there's a connection between the core ritual of communion taking

1:07:04 and all of these other mind-altering devices, you know, acoustics and symbolisms and geometries and so forth that they're all part of what I would think as ancient scientific technology for the exploration of nonphysical realms. Yes Man, this is the biggest thing that I've gotten out of your work and of course we hear these whispers and rumors that the psychedelics used to be a part of this but I feel like there's a clarity that comes out of The narrative you've just weaved that I didn't have before. And if you look at it's obviously popular now these excursions to Peru To the Amazon to take ayahuasca with the shamans if you look at what they're doing I mean They involve chanting rhythmic drumming

1:07:53 taking a liquid psychedelic substance, an entheogen from a cup. If you look at the remnants of a mass I mean go back in time what that originally was it's a lot closer to the shamanic journey in Peru than it is the manifestation we have today Yes, oh absolutely and you know the only reason that those kind of practices still exist is because they were the most isolated from being interrupted whereas over in the middle east and europe and so forth they were

1:08:28 they were suppressed and well outlawed. I mean, entheogenic communion was outlawed by the Roman Church in it's either the 5th or 6th century. It is soon after the rise of the sort of Holy Roman Empire, the beginnings of it and for good reason because in Rome at that time there were Mithraeans all over Rome and there was still civil worship up on, you know one of the seven hills and the Vatican itself was a place where Etruscan oracles which were probably you know with which by the way You know we're worshippers of Shiva. Hmm Okay on Vatican Hill and they grew a On Vatican Hill they grew some sort of a made a bitter wine which they called the Tika to their God Which was named fatigue also

1:09:23 And they would drink that and people would come to them to ask questions, see the future an so forth. That's the true origin of the Vatican! That is why it is called The Holy See you know? I love how this dovetails in with magic also, this idea of entity communication, exploring spirit realms... If we go back to Egypt a lot the kind of vague idea we have of what Egypt was about at the time seems to be about exploring consciousness, preparing for death which is you know getting familiar with the non-physical realms and communicating with something non human and it bring it right up through modern times I mean just...I feel like its never been clear what the origin was how it was lost and that they underline value this kinda stuff

1:10:17 Yeah, I mean the Greeks too you know they learned from the Egyptians. The Lusnean mysteries were all about taking the Kykeon Holy Communion and during initiation and certain lesser mysteries, greater mysteries is all part of...all integrated in with the communion ceremony so part of Venus Blueprint was also trying to go back and figure out well now where did Where did the communion ritual begin? And when you go back, you realize that well The Zoroastrians were doing it. You know before the Greeks and before all of that... If you trace it back far enough, you get into the Rig Veda

1:11:02 you find that the core and the central premise of the Rig Veda is this elixir of immortality called Soma, that was the drink of the gods. And then if you study that further and you find out that well there's at the center or the highest ceremony of the Vedic system is this Vaya Paya ceremony that involves winning the Soma. And you know what they would do? They created this thing called a Yupa pole, it was a pole that would be stuck in the ground and at the top was sort of across and a circle is called the Sun Door. In this Valle Pella ceremony they would take a ladder and lean it against the Yupa pole

1:11:50 and they would, the man and wife usually. The man would start to walk up the pole after this is after doing a whole bunch of other things including you know sacrificing the Soma ingredients which is a combination of things that one of the things being most likely at least originally according to number of ethnobotanists people like Gordon Wasson Rucker and some others that Soma had a as one of its ingredients had Amanita mushrooms boom Which are psychoactive yeah

1:12:31 And yet, in other communions and different places you find with the Zoroastrian tradition that it likely had basically an amphetamine, ephedra kind of ingredient that would add more of a speed element to it. But I think as you move especially down into Mediterranean, you'd probably have more acacia extracts that have DMT in it which is highly psychoactive I think as it migrates in different places, it might have other ingredients or a blend of ingredients and then eventually those get lost and just become sort of empty ritual type drinks.

1:13:13 When you go back to that original Vipaeus ceremony, this guy would say, you know, ascend we to heaven and the wife holding hands would say ascend we. And he would go up, he would say certain words and things and climb up the ladder and at the top of the Yupupole where the sun door, the little circular what was called a Wheaton wheel across literally X across holding this wheel at the top of the Yupupol would be the Soma, it'd be in a form of like a dough or something and he would then get that and he would eat it. And he would get it rubbed on his belly because thats where the Soma rested and that kind of thing. Then interestingly enough The sun door would open and they would see into heaven behind the Sun Man! They would see through the Sun into Heaven This was called the Ascension this is the ascension ceremony

1:14:12 Well, the Yupa pole became the Christian cross. And the idea of climbing that pole and sacrificing the Soma by both burning it in a fire, which delivers it to the gods and then climbing the pole and eating is that you are ascending to heaven. You're seeing the path away to God. Right! And so this was what the symbolism of the cross is I mean they crucified the Christians on...the Romans crucified them on their cross because the cross meant something wasn't just

1:14:54 place to nail people or hang them, you know. It was a symbol of ascending to heaven that had descended into Judaism and early Christianity from much older Vedic origins There are so many little threads and sagas here that kind of put a new twist on an on a symbol that we've taken for granted. And we kind of learn where it came from in this context, and the psychedelic thing is just really amazing to me because I've had a couple psychedelic experiences DMT experiences and the two things that I experienced that I hear from most people are geometric shapes

1:15:35 entities. So we're talking about how the geometry ties in here, and we're talking about how religion can be based off of this communion with spirits? Yes exactly! Boom! Exactly It's a wild time to be alive. Really fascinating stuff, but man I guess that brings us to the end of the line. Amazing work! I've really enjoyed this. I mean it details so much of so many interesting subjects...it's just great i'm so happy that we've been able to make this happen thanks to Gene who got us connected yeah This is one of my favorites in awhile man nothing has really challenged me the way this has very dense but

1:16:13 I feel like i'm catching on to some of it but before we really go could you remind the people about your books and website and where they can dig deeper into this stuff? Sure my website is interferencetheory.com and through that you can pretty much Well, you can certainly get to a lot of material that's not just about the books but is background material. There are some interactive flash simulations there related to it. Anyway other things and also on Facebook you can just look up

1:16:51 Venus blueprint as a page or also interference theory calm page and if you like those I do post new things that come across there and there's a huge archive you can explore through the photo albums But you can pick up there is an electronic book version PDF so you read on anything that's downloadable from the website for interference and I did sell. I was self-publishing the paper book at one time but it's currently out of print, I keep getting requests I just need to

1:17:32 Decide whether I want to take that on again or not. But anyway, you can get the electronic book there and then you can... For free right? Yeah for free and then you can buy The Venus Blueprint through Amazon or Barnes & Noble or any number of websites it's distributed by Random House so it's pretty much available everywhere The new book, hopefully will be coming out sometime next year. It's called the Vajra Sequence at least that is the current name you never know what the publisher might do with that but it takes all of these ideas we've been talking about and paints them into a slightly future not too far into the future but slightly futuristic

1:18:16 scenario where there's just this sudden paradigm shift, sort of like when the Internet hit or when mobile communications hit. Some sort of a sudden jolt that Instead of discoveries that occurs and how it inter interfaces with the financial systems in the political system. Yeah, and the war so it's It's very integrated with current events So it'll be fun when its out yeah as a conspiracy guy Financial The situation with the history of finance and banking is a huge interest to me And that's one area that I didn't ask you about but of course

1:18:59 It seems like fractional reserve banking and the idea of turning current debt into currency comes from ancient priesthoods that were very involved in banking And who knows, that's another component. Well money is a form of stored energy you know? Boom! Yeah in some form you know... I've really enjoyed doing this and look forward to seeing it out there and hopefully other people enjoy listening to it and create some more controversy and more conversations Yeah, man. Thanks again it has been a real blast hopefully we can do it again sometime maybe when that novel comes out but yeah until then just keep at it man take care okay thanks a lot Greg

1:19:42 Oop, there it is people. What a great show that was! At least to me I mean the connections between Venus and the pentagram Entheogens an ancient religion the idea that there was once a global culture participating in deep psychedelic rituals That was stomped out as far as it could be but these pockets in the Amazon These shamanic traditions The ayahuasca pilgrimages fad right now. They might be what's left of what was once a widespread culture of consciousness expansion, I do think it is having those regular experiences within theogens that reminds us that we are more than our bodies and there is more to life than 3D reality

1:20:17 that there are actually other beings you can commune with when you turn your dial beyond the morning commute and soul crushing cubicle, and when astral travel and psychedelics are such a big part of everyday life nobody's going to care what the catholic church says you need to do. Nobody is going to spend 4 decades answering phones for customer service when they realize that life is just a game. fundamental aspect of total control, of elbowing your way to a place of authority, of ensuring humanity never awakens from their amnesia is removing those traditions entirely from the culture. I just told this story a few weeks back in the wrap up about my Don Peyote acid trip and my lengthy stream of telepathic back-and-forth with a nearby star imagine a society that takes these substances every night stacks them with ritual drumming and chanting and perfectly tuned architecture

1:21:03 that takes you much, much deeper. Then you go out into the night sky with no light pollution and look up it's not hard for me to believe that the path of every illuminated dot could tell a story and one can reflect long enough in the right state of mind and find well defined personality traits in stars With all the distractions and happenings in modern day life, I pretty much did it myself. So this all really makes sense to me and works to explain a lot of the confusion in my mind about what the past might have been like Another big takeaway for me? Well, of course things are layered and manipulated And it's hard to get a handle on a symbols original meaning But I think when you can find something like this A pentagram in the sky The path of Venus specifically That seems to be a safe bet

1:21:47 on where it originally came from and to hear that this symbol has a natural damping effect vibrationally, energetically acoustically. Well I think this is the science of why it's used in magic rituals to control spirits and why its used in government buildings like the Pentagon and government symbols like the flag and the dollar bill and all these things we have 50 pentagrams on the US flag one for each good little state that obeys the federal overlords And by extension probably the British crown, but it's a symbol of control not freedom. But in the second half of the show The Plus Show this space we laid in the areas of entheogenics and magic We fleshed that out a little bit. We also talked about how mythology formed in this new entheogenic context of ancient ritual How some of the great mathematicians and developers of geometric principles were probably trying to express the visuals from their trips like Francis Crick and The DNA Strand

1:22:42 Those geometric patterns, the reality code and the insight into these building blocks of the universe clearly that information was valuable and was thought about differently at a time in the past. Richard also talks about how the Hebrews reserved entheogenics for the priest class even before Christianity, and how this connects to removal of the sacred feminine and its tie-ins with Yom Kippur? I also asked Richard if all this can be extrapolated from the orbital pattern of Venus what can be extracted from the orbital patterns of other celestial bodies? We talk about the possibilities of hollow planets in Richards research that shows space is not just an empty void like we've been told

1:23:17 And of course how everything is backwards and science's sole focus on the external, and by extension perhaps NASA's role in fueling outward exploration and completely overshadowing inward exploration. Well those could be modern extensions of this same manipulation It's a great show, both hours one and two. I would greatly appreciate if you enjoy the first hour of this and all the THC shows we do here that you'd hop over to TheHigherSideChatsPlus.com and sign up for the $5 a month to support the show and keep me doing it full time That is only if you find it different and unique enough in the vast electronic sea of limitless options To contribute to it and hear twice as much in return

1:23:56 Also, I am leaving for Armenia this Friday on the Graham Hancock tour. Looking at ancient sites that are the subject of his new book, the sequel to Fingerprints of The Gods it will be my first major international trip! I'm pretty nervous and excited and all that great stuff And I plan to capture as much footage and audio as I can and put something special together for those plus members That made it possible So why not get a head start? And start digging through the archives of all the second hours you've missed so far I do have two shows in the can, they jive very much with this one and i think you're really gonna love them. And when I get back...I have no idea what state im going to be in but Im really gonna have to hustle in the last half of August To get three more shows out But I cant complain when I literally have the best job I could ever ask for and thanks to everybody who listens and makes that possible

1:24:45 But that said, I'm getting out of here. I hope you're living all your dreams Keep your head up Your pimp hands strong Your tail feathers shaking And your mind expanding I'm Greg Carlwood and i've done my part Your move whitewashers Of the higher history and consciousness controllers of modern man... Your fricken move No one knows what it's like To be the bad man to be the sad man Behind blue eyes And no one knows what its like To be hated, he faded to telling only lies But my dreams is empty as my conscience seems to be I have hour only lonely since they exposed me on THC

1:26:07 No one knows what it's like to feel these feelings like I do And I blame you! But no one bites back as hard on their anger None of my pain and woe can show through But my dreams aren't as empty As my conscience seems

1:26:53 I have a waste loan since they exposed me to THC But my dreams aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be

1:28:03 I've been way too lonely since they exposed me on THC No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind