Paul Levy | Wetiko: Healing The Mind-Virus That Plagues Our World

00:00 Welcome to another free first hour episode of the Hireside Chats. I know we want to get into the action, but i have to ask that you help me armor us up a bit for the bumpy road ahead because I bring you the first hour of this show without unrelated ad nonsense as proof-of-concept and if you value it then come over to THC Plus for $8 a month and hear full 2 hour interviews as they were designed to be and as you would enjoy them most Go to thehiresideschats.com or just click the link in the show notes to get started and within a minute you'll be plugging in your new Plus Show RSS feed into a hopefully decentralized podcasting 2.0 supported app. Feed the things you want to grow and starve the things that gotta go, and we will reach the promised land! Think about that...and enjoy the show

00:53 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. I'm Greg Carlwood and these are The Hireside Chats Who you gonna call, Hireside Chatters? From sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood just trying to find my way through a world gone mad. We've seen the trend for a long time now but each new year seems to have kicked it up a notch and only exacerbated the thought of well i didn't expect it to get this bad enter the COVID era and we've been getting a cosmic master class in the illogical actions of people fueled by fear selfishness anger and all the ingredients in the worst soup of human emotions

01:49 And with all the great conversations we've had about unseen spiritual influences and the Great Earth Play, you'd certainly expect them to be involved here as well. And it seems they've been juicing up! But this isn't just a wild speculation of a few rogue scholars, because many of the brightest minds in nearly every previous or indigenous culture on this human energy farm has sensed these beings of darkness and warned against their influence. The Gnostics called them Archons, Rudolf Steiner called them Lucifer and Aramond, Carl Jung called it the Shadow, and some just refer to trickster spirits. But in every religion, spiritual tradition, and even grimoire you'll find warnings against the influence of nefarious beings from the other side

02:30 Well, Witeko is the term used by many of the Algonquin-speaking tribes of North America and the preferred term for today's guest Paul Levy. Over 40 years ago Paul had a life transforming spiritual awakening experience that would likely be considered a call to a shamanic path in many other cultures but in ours it was diagnosed as a psychotic break and he was repeatedly hospitalized and told he was mentally ill The abuse he subsequently received from psychiatry destroyed his family and almost killed him. But he has emerged from the other side as a spiritual teacher, healer and author of several great books including Dispelling Wetiko! Breaking the Curse of Evil, Awakened by Darkness When Evil Becomes Your Father, Quantum Revelation A Radical Synthesis Of Science And Spirituality

03:18 And hitting the shelves by the time this hits your ears, his latest book is called Wetiko Healing The Mind Virus That Plagues Our World. And if you ask me this is definitely the right time and place to examine just such a thing! You can find more of Paul's work and his personal practice at awakeninthedream.com, and it is a pleasure to have him here! The enlightening educator and mind virus transmutator holding back the wild and stormy waters of Wetiko, Paul Levy welcome to the higher side Hi, yeah I'm just so happy to be here with you Greg today. Thank you! Yeah man likewise and thanks for doing it because i've gotten several requests to have you on over the last couple of years and i'm glad we are making it happen in the COVID era because the need for it has never been more obvious Of course very few people are thinking about all

04:07 the COVID operation aspects in a spiritual context, but as the saying goes the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist. And so for our culture, which is largely ignorant of such things this sort of material seems more important than ever wouldn't you say? Oh completely. I mean You know i've been talking for 25 years about that we're in the middle of a collective psychosis and a lot of people would just scratch their head wondering what made me think that and it's become obvious. I mean, you know It couldn't be more obvious that our species has fallen into a collective madness, that we're acting out on the world stage. And if we don't come to terms with it you know it's clear we're killing ourselves, we're destroying the biosphere, the life support system of this planet and I'm in a particularly interesting position because like you had said in the intro over 40 years ago I had this breakthrough breakdown like a huge spiritual awakening

05:09 that propelled me so completely out of consensus reality, things began happening in my life that weren't just synchronistic or amazing. They were physically impossible and I didn't realize it at the time but something was actually being shown to me and I was beginning to realize the dreamlike nature of reality but while that was happening concurrent with that, I kept on being hospitalized and told oh i'm crazy and I've gone mentally ill And I knew beyond a shadow of doubt that wasn't true and that's what saved me. So here i am, fast forward 40 years later and im one of the people who is able to diagnose and point out the collective madness we've fallen into. Like Im saying if you don't really come to terms its revealing something to us thats most important for us to know but if we dont have the realization

06:04 then we're doomed. Yes, well said! We are off to the races and so from the intro of your new book you say, Wateko in a nutshell, a contagious psycho-spiritual disease of the soul, a parasite of the mind it is currently being acted out en masse on the world stage via an insidious collective psychosis of titanic proportions And that is a great way to get people excited about the concept of Wateco. And it seems like there's an almost limitless way of explaining or getting at what this is and different angles to come at it, but what else would you say about introducing folks to this influence? Sure well It's so funny because I've had some people they'll accuse me of oh You're just really out there in woo-woo with new agey

06:57 The radical thing I'm saying in my work is that the origin, the very source of the problem that's creating all of the myriad world crises and the source or solution of those problems is to be found within the psyche. That's the radical thing I'm saying and think about it collective madness, the source of that is our psyche! And so the thing about Watiko, its a psycho-spiritual disease of the soul but its quantum in nature And what I mean by that is that encoded within the pathology, because it's the source of all the evil we're playing out in the world. But encoded hidden within a pathology is its own vaccine, is its own medicine. But if we don't have the recognition of what it's revealing to us, it's going to kill us. But if we have the recognition of oh something is being shown to us something in our unconscious then all of a sudden

07:56 It connects us with ourselves in a deeper way. It unlocks the most incredible creative agency that's our nature, that we all have but don't know we have it and so like one way of understanding what HIKO is because were unconscious of our nature, of our creative power and our creative nature then that creative spirit gets turned against us I can say a lot more about that because the thing about what you got with has no creativity at all but it plugs into our creativity if we're on a way to it and then it's her own creative nature against us to serve its agenda. And thats why so many people are acting out stuff in their lives whether individually through addictions,

08:40 or supporting politicians who are actually supporting policies that are actually not serving them. So many people are investing their energy in ways that aren't serving them, what's at the bottom of that is the Watiko bug Yes, I also had this in my notes that I like where you say it covertly operates through the unconscious blind spots in the human psyche rendering people oblivious to their own madness and compelling them to act against their own best interests. Huetico is a psychosis in the true sense of the word It bewitches our consciousness so that we become blind to the underlying assumed viewpoint through which we perceive

09:21 conjure up and give meaning to our experience of both the world and ourselves. Yeah, I mean that's very well said! I guess elaborate on that a little bit more. Right? I was thinking God I couldn't have said it better myself but no that really is because Huatico is a form of blindness but its a really peculiar form of blindness because it's a type of blindness that does not know that it's blind And not only does it not know that its blind, It thinks its actually sighted. And not only does it think its sighted, It thinks its more sighted than people who are actually seeing. And so Watiko is an all around blindness in that Its blind to that its blind. Its blind and can't see its own when somebody's afflicted with the person cant see their own shadow or darkness AND they also cant see their own light

10:14 So Watiko, it kind of takes away our ability to see particularly in the way that's most important in that we can't see. It hides in our blind spots and the thing about Watiko not only does it hide in our blind spots but it operates through the projective tendencies of our mind and we're always projecting onto the waking inkblot of this world and when we project we interpret. We have this meaning that we superimpose onto what's happening and the thing is though because this reality is dreamlike, as soon as we interpret this waking inkblot in a certain way similar to how it dream... keep thinking about what a dream is. A dream is a projection of the mind. It's reflecting the mind. As soon as we interpret

11:07 the in plot of the dream a certain way instantaneously not overtime but in zero time the dream being reflection of our mind. Instantaneously reflects back on interpretation which confirms to us what we're saying is objectively true so we become even more fixed in our viewpoint and the more fixing whatever you point is the more than just reflects it back and basically we've hypnotized ourselves, thinking that what we're seeing is objectively true. And as soon as we think the world is objective, we've created ourself as a subject that's separate from the object of the world and that's Watiko because then we literally hypnotize ourselves, we even trance ourselves and I'm describing that in a night dream but it totally maps on to the waking dream. What I am describing this is what quantum physics has discovered because quantum physics is offering us the medicine for Watiko

12:02 So I could just say a lot more about this, but it's all based on this reality being a shared collective dream. And that's what I was realizing 40 years ago when I was thrown in hospitals and told I was mentally ill Right on. Yes, that was exactly the next thing I wanted to ask you about was the structure of reality because we got a zoom out to give people context and put Wetiko within the larger framework We're talking about dreams and spirits and consciousness in the physical plane You mentioned The Field in the book a fair amount Help people get a handle on how these things fit together into a holistic worldview and relate to each other

12:45 Sure, sure. Well the field... Albert Einstein has a famous quote where he's saying the field is the only reality or I'm paraphrasing but that's very close and the field for example quantum physics has discovered empirically proved i mean there's no doubt that this cosmos being quantum in nature that means that there's no separate parts interacting it's all seamless seamlessly whole you know there's no separation so the field It's not localized, it's a non-local which means it transcends third dimensional space and time where every part of the non local field is interconnected with every other part because they're not separated in space or in time. And there are these ways that I describe how to see what you go because the whole point is to see what you go because if we don't

13:43 then it operates through our blind spots, and then we unwittingly become an instrument for it to act itself out in the world destructively serving its agenda as it kills us. And that's what's happening in the world." So one of the ways to see Watiko is to have the recognition that there's a non-local field in which were all contained and of which were all expressions. To begin to see that is to begin to snap out of the imagination of the separate self. Because if you remember, I was saying as soon as we think the world exists objectively then we concurrently conjure ourselves up as a subject that's in relationship to an object and all of a sudden there is duality And as soon as we identify with a separate self there are others and as soon as there are others there is fear

14:37 And fear is the superfood for Huatico. Okay, so the point is in the non-local field seeing through the imagination of the separate self and having a recognition that we don't exist as separate selves that we exist were interdependent with each other We're interconnected with each other There is no separate self And that is, in a sense equivalent to seeing the non-local field. And one other way of describing it is like three aspects of the same deeper sort of this gem that are all part of the same jewel is to actually see the dreamlike nature because when you see the dreamlike nature like say if you're in a nightdream and you have awareness that your dreaming what do you see? You recognize that all the other characters in the dream are just aspects of you That there's no separation

15:32 And so to see the dreamlike nature, to see through the imagination of a separate self and to see the non-local field. Those are ways of describing when you're beginning to snap out of the spell of Watiko because Watiko before I found the name Watiko, I had written a book And I was talking about Watiko, but I didn't know the name. I called it malignant egophrenia ME disease, me disease It's a misidentification of who we think we are and that's in essence Watiko Mm-hmm. Well on the subject of the names for it I did mention a couple of analogs in the intro like archons or young shadow But maybe you can talk to us a bit more about the cross cultural References to a being like this because they're everywhere, right? Yeah And that's in my new book the one that says coming out I mean That's one of the major parts of the book is I'm pointing out then every spiritual tradition every single one

16:33 from time immemorial. They're pointing at Huatico, but they're not using the name Huatico they're calling it a different name and creative artists and philosophers and thinkers they were all pointing at what you go So it's not important what the name is, but the idea is by finding the name like in a fairy tale then you're objectifying it. Then you see it and then take away its power over you so it's important to just whatever name suits us to call this parasite of the mind Now in the apocryphal texts they talk about Watiko They call him the counterfeiting spirit

17:09 But it was edited out of the Bible. And I point that in my book, well that's because Watiko was on the editorial board of the Bible because he can't stand to be exposed now the counterfeiting spirit That is Watiko Here is his strategy What it does It actually like I was saying has no creativity but its a master impersonator So it puts us on And putting us on has two meanings. It's like putting us on like a suit of clothes, but putting us on means to fool us it's the trickster so it presents us with this image of ourselves as limited version of ourselves or this grandiose version of ourselves but it presents us not with the real self but with a fictitious version of ourselves because the thing about what Tico it has no power over us whatsoever

17:57 as long as we're actually connected with who we are, with our true nature. Then it can't touch us so what its strategy is it impersonates us and offers us a simulation of who we are and if we're not awake in that moment, and we identify with its fictitious version of ourselves then it has us. Then it can manipulate that false identity and it can control that false identity And if you think about what just happened In that moment we actually... You see Watiko can't steal our soul but he can trick us into giving it away So what we've done We've given ourself away We've identified with who were not

18:39 and we've disconnected from our creative agency. That's a recipe for madness, and that in essence is Wateco. Right on! Great summary... You know, I have a lot of respect for this theme of reflection and trying to get at our true nature of interconnectedness. But let me ask you this because i feel like i have pretty good self-awareness. Of course there are always blind spots but i've been having conversations like these and reflecting on them for 10 years now. And when i hear phrases like what we see in the outer world is just a reflection of our inner world

19:15 It sounds nice and deep, but when I see the guy at the store with three sets of gloves and four masks on yelling at the cashier or people wishing death on the unvaccinated and saying they shouldn't be allowed to travel or access groceries I don't see how that's a reflection of anything in me. I try to have empathy for everyone and understand how captured they are by this, i don't wish harm on them. I see the totalitarian surveillance state creeping in more and more, and that's certainly the antithesis of my philosophy and desired way of life. And the response always seems to be well you're just not aware of it or you're just not looking deep enough

19:55 And I want to say, or that's just not accurate. And this stuff is not a reflection of anything in me and it's like you're getting painted into a logical cul-de-sac that sounds a bit condescending speak to this a bit if you could help me out here. Yeah for sure and i wanna i won't i wanna but like i would love to talk about the totalitarian stuff That's something that i've been tracking too and i can connect that to what Tico in a way that really might help I mean i totally get what you're saying When you see this as a dream, that guy at the supermarket who has three masks and has gotten a zillion vaccines with boosters and is afraid of more than six feet. That is a part of us because he's a dream character or she's a dream character. And by definition think about it, you have a dream

20:44 And imagine in that dream that you have, you go into a supermarket and that character is there. Right? Mm hmm. And then when you're having all this judgment on that person or your feeling separate, or your going through a process of oh well, that's not a reflection of me in the nightdream and then you wake up from the dream and you realize Oh my God, that was just a dream. Well guess what every character in a dream as an aspect of view And so that character in the supermarket wearing the three masks, that's some sort of incredibly fear based part of you. That's fallen under a spell that feels really separate, that is being controlled by fear there it is an embodied form when your dream and you don't recognize it but that's a part of you because who you are like say if you're in a dream

21:34 and you're on planet Earth, and there are billions of other humans on the planet with you. And then you wake up, and they're all some good or bad or smart or stupid or whatever. You wake from the dream and realize oh my God that was just a dream! All those 8 billion characters in my dream were aspects of me so what I'm pointing out is that when we begin to awaken... We are all awakening and we're all in process. I am totally at work in process But the point is, when you really tap into that deep awakening you recognize oh my god I'm all of it. Instead of identifying with this skin encapsulated ego with this separate self you begin to have the realization that who you are...that you're not separate from anyone That's what it means to see through this separate self and the energetic expression of that realization is compassion

22:26 Because to go back here example if you're in that supermarket and you have a judgment about that clerk who's wearing the three mass. And then you're saying, no that's not a reflection of me. They're separate from me they are just under the spell well that's how Watiko is working through you yeah they might be taken over by Watiko like having fallen into fear but in your reaction You become a vector to feed Watiko in the field That's why the medicine par excellence for Watiko Is compassion because compassion spontaneously is the expression when we see through the separate self and recognize that we aren't separate. Well, touche Paul maybe you got me but I guess it's kind of like Lone Milo DeKette says it's all in your head you just have no idea how big your head is yeah totally and then if I could just comment on you had mentioned the totalitarian forces that are creeping all over the world and I totally recognize that sure because for me I have a combination

23:28 you know, what's happening in the world. You know I really study it and go down the rabbit hole as best like an trip out on it and find it incredibly amazing. And it's unbelievably frightening particularly the totalitarian forces now here is how to connect that with what he go so what he go is a virus of the mind that's a way of thinking about But it's amazing phenomena because it's an inner disease of the soul that actually is able to extend itself out into the world so as to configure events in the world such that

24:07 These events reflect back the inner state of a psyche under the thrall of what you go. Now, I should just point out when you have the recognition like that to come market clerk, the outer is reflecting that inner part of view? That's a dream because what is your dream but our inner process that just externalize as dreamscape so Getting back to Watiko, it's an inner disease of the soul that actually elaborates itself extends itself and explicates itself through the medium of the outside world by configuring seemingly outer events. So In the Collected Works, Jung is pointing at Watiko all throughout the Collected Works but he doesn't have the name for it and keeps on calling it different names. But the one name that he calls it a majority of times is totalitarian psychosis. Okay? Now here's how Watiko works when its in a psyche, when its an individual. It colonizes the psyche

25:03 It hijacks the executive function of the psyche. It creates a shadow government in the psyche, it dictates to the ego, it subsumes all the healthy parts of the psyche to serve its nefarious agenda and all the while the person who's afflicted has no idea because part of them that supposed to be monitor to keep out outside invaders has been captured by Watiko. Okay? Now, that's an inner condition of the individual psyche who is taken over by Watiko. Now think about the totalitarian forces that are happening all over the world. What I just described about how that happens inside of a person's psyche is actually what's happening in the outer world and to think about Watiko

25:53 and totalitarian psychosis is that it's like this virus, and a virus mutates. A virus becomes a hybrid of itself. It continually transforms. Now the totalitarian forces in the 20th century think of World War II with Nazi Germany. They were very overt in militarily invading countries that wouldn't fly right now so the totalitarian that virus actually has mutated to become hidden so that we don't recognize it. So many of my friends who are really well-intentioned, bright people all talk about the totalitarian forces that are operating in so many ways and they're just blind to it. They're just no, no, no! That was with Trump and he's out of office now we're all good." And I just shake my head going, Are you kidding me? But that's the spell were under

26:47 Yeah, I think that's a great way to explain a lot of this. I thought this was interesting, but to quote the new book again you say in this section. I write about the coronavirus pandemic from the dreaming point of view seeing it as a phenomenon that we have all dreamed up in our world and interpreting it like I would have dream symbolically. I do so in order to decipher the deeper levels of symbolic meaning that are encoded within it. So as to be able to receive the potential lessons and gifts that it's offering us well I find that interesting because we sometimes speculate that people who have real influence in this reality are aware of these mechanisms and use things like mass media and movies to sort of steer the collective unconscious where they want it. And given this huge uptick in movies like Outbreak, Contagion

27:37 and the nauseating amount of zombie movies, you could make a good case that we were primed to manifest this particular nightmare and all the government action around it. Of course that's all still kind of within the game but it seems like they kinda seed ideas for us to dream up. Yeah but here is the thing there's truth in that absolutely even though people in positions of influence and power they themselves are pawns in the hands of the deeper formless archetype. And what that means is that

28:13 When you see this as a dream and what I mean by that is say if you had a dream just last night and you've woken up in your writing it down in your contemplating what does it mean. And the dream was oh my god there's this pandemic and there's like this lockdown and you know exactly whats happening the world today, was happening in your dream or how would you interpret that? What I would point out is that there's a deeper archetypal energy that's incarnating in our world. And the people who are the billionaires or the ones in positions of power, like I was saying they're just the pawns through which the archetype is giving shape to itself so something of a higher dimension and I would say what that is has to do everything with evil

29:01 But the thing is, I'm just a translator. I'm just translating this wisdom from every spiritual tradition in the Kabbalah and indigenous traditions in Buddhism, Christianity, Hawaiian Kahuna Islam... They're all saying the same thing in this way that—I'll just give you an example like Rudolf Steiner, The Great Clairvoyant he was saying And I talk about this not in, I think it's in my next book because I have another book coming out on what Tico because it's such an important topic and 2022. He actually says the most momentous event of our time

29:37 is what he calls the incarnation of the etheric Christ. It's the second coming, but he's saying that this Christ is not going to come in a physical male body or on a chariot or anything like that no! That this energy isn't incarnating through the psyche of humanity but before we can actualize that incarnation of the etheric Christ, Steiner says we have to encounter a beast. We have to encounter radical evil. You know that those aren't two separate events? Think about the Christ event, right as Christ himself incarnated in this world and he's the incarnation of the light! What happened at that exact moment all of a sudden Satan appeared?! That's not unrelated. Those are parts of the same deeper archetype and that's what I'm pointing out. People talk about this being apocalyptic times

30:33 Well, the meaning as people know of the apocalypse is something hidden that's being revealed. And psychologically... So what the meaning of apocalypse and the Messiah—the coming of the Messiah—is the incarnation of this self! We're actually participating in that through our individuation And so we're all called to confront our own personal shadow, but also there's an archetypal shadow. And the point is you see what the medicine is? There are two ways of describing the medicine for Huatico on one hand like I've been saying it's to connect with our true nature who remember who we are The other way of really creating the medicine for Huatico because we already are in possession of the medicine It's like we have this magic wand

31:21 but we don't know we have it or if you know that we don't know how to implement it so we have everything we need. We don't need anything outside of ourselves, but the other medicine is for us to connect with our creative spirit because if you remember what Tico I was saying in plugs into our creativity to the extent that were not awake to it and turns our creativity against us and when you see this as a dream You know what's happening in the world right now and you interpret that way well i would say will clearly if it was one person stream your not in touch with your creative agency take a look at what's happening forces outside of yourself this state. Are picking up your own disown creativity and using against you that's what he go so what he go it actually obscures are created spirit but it actually spurs activated so

32:13 The point is that this medicine for Watiko, not only to connect with who we are but for us to actually connect with our nature and our nature is creative. And the more we connect with our creative nature the more we express ourselves creatively and the more we express ourselves creatively the more we know our nature. Doing that we're then participating in the second coming That's what Steiner saying That's what this is all about Very well said. I definitely agree with your comments about Apocalypse, its truest definition is as a revealing so if you've been in denial of all the horrors of this Matrix world then it definitely can feel like everything is crumbling and maybe that's the interpretation part kind of depends on how vested you are in this matrix level of reality but as for the two aspects of the medicine inside Wetiko connect

33:04 Connecting to our true nature and connecting with our creative spirit. Well, if we're all gripped and possessed by Wateko to some extent from the Capstone Cabal right on down to little old us... What's really the value of us being aware when the real influencers are just gonna carry out all its dark desires anyway? Because we can acknowledge this possession aspect and try to transmutate it in our own lives, but is it really medicine if it doesn't depossess the nefarious elite? It might be a new way to look at the world and I might even be more accurate. But how does that create the change that we might want to see but seems outside of our means? Yeah well I mean its like being in a dream And when you're in a dream people have said to me oh I have these lucid dreams and then I control the dream

33:56 And I know right away that they don't know what they're talking about, that they're not having a lucid dream because if you are having a lucid dream it makes no sense at all to control the seemingly outer dream because you recognize that's not separate from you. Why would you control that? That is just an expression of fear and not feeling safe but what you would be in control of is yourself Okay, so that's important. The idea being that yeah there are certain you know the powers that be have certain you know whether it's the surveillance whatever the digital technology they have enormous power in a certain way but what they can't touch and there is this mind control technology but we're the ones who are the arbiters and who choose our attitude and how we interpret and the meaning we place on things

34:47 you know we would have to give that over and that's an act that were colluding with. And so we actually have this incredibly unimaginably vast creative power, to shape our experience, to literally create our experience of ourselves in the world. And there is no one who can take that from us as long as we're in touch with that Then our connection with ourselves and the connection with our creative spirit is just getting deeper. And by doing that energetically, non-locally that's getting registered throughout the non local field which is to say it makes it easier for other people to do the same

35:31 So, you know people who are really... because I know so many people and I see that part of me that can easily get into pessimism and despair and depression about how dark things look. And oh there's no hope and I'm helpless and all that. That's the illusion! That's to give yourself over to Watiko And then quantum physics comes in and says, no wait a second. Each and every moment there is these incredible any and every possibility that could ever happen is existing in potential until the moment we observe it and then all of those potential realities collapse into one actual reality. And that experience is happening each and every moment what that means, Is that even if something is highly ridiculously unlikely It could manifest in this very moment

36:24 And when you realize that, it creates this incredible positive energy. This upliftment is hope because if we fall into despair and pessimism then we need somebody to help heal us. We can't be of any help for what's happening in the world and it's just so important for us to recognize the dreamlike nature and we're the dreamers each of us and work collectively dreaming. You see Watiko was a dreamed up phenomena that we unconsciously, because dreams are expressions of our unconscious, are dreaming up into the world so as to awaken us. But if we don't recognize what it's revealing—because it is a revelation, Watiko is a revelation—if we don't recognize what it's revealing to us like I've been saying then we're doomed to continue destroying ourselves

37:12 Mm-hmm. Well, it's all really interesting and I don't want to get too hung up on this but if we look at reality as a collective dream It seems like the worst parts of it are not really the collective dreams and desires of the whole But the actions of a powerful few so I don't know about destroying ourselves or why these few have so much more manifestation juice compared to the rest of us But I do think it's important to connect with our creative spirit, and many of us would like to manifest and co-create a better reality. So how can we use this information to bring about something more universally pleasant? Yeah there are minority, small minority, and there are actual people who are controlling the levers of power

38:03 And unfortunately, people who go up the ladder to that level of power typically have unresolved power issues and tend to be psychopathic. I mean that's unfortunate but the answer to your question has to do with the individual Because to create laws or legislation that can help but that's not the way and it's not that that's not good That's part of it But I'll just give you an example for an individual if we're blind to what he go like a lot of spiritual people new-age well intentioned They're of the opinion. Oh, I don't want to put my attention on evil I don't wanna because if I'm putting my tension on feeding it You know when that's true up to a point

38:45 But if you're avoiding taking a look at the darkness that's happening in the world and the darkness in yourself and your complicity with the darkness of the world, that turning away is turning this blind eye. And that's to feed Watiko. So if you turn a blind eye to the darkness, you're feeding Watiko If you become overly fascinated with it well then you are feeding it too but if you see Watiko And you see how it works non-locally, through the outside world. Through configuring the field because whenever we bring light to the darkness if you notice... ...the field configures itself to protect the darkness

39:27 That's showing us how Watiko works and how it works in our own mind. It works through our unconscious reactions, so when you see how Watiko work both outer in the world inner in ourselves and you actually okay I see now as a sovereign being I get to invest where I place my attention and I want to invest my awareness and my intention creating the world that I want to live in that's the way when you do that what he has no power over you And then when you connect with other people who are also switched on and doing that, you can put what I call the sacred power of dreaming together. You can in a real way dream a new dream, awaking dream this life into materialization and the way to understand this isn't New Age woo-woo magical thinking imagine being in a night dream and imagine you have lucidity

40:20 What have you realized? Oh my God, this is all in my own mind. I'm inside of my psyche." Now imagine other of the dream characters also have that realization and you hang out together, you connect with each other and contemplate what are we understanding? What are having the realization of? This collective dream we're sharing... We're dreaming it! It's a function of...we're dreaming it up into materialization when you get enough people who get in phase with each other and sync with each other Based on that realization, they realize they can use that sacred power of dreaming in a way to change the dream. And that's evolutionary and that's what we're invited to step into and participate in consciously. That is what this is all about! Okay? That's what my whole work is about

41:07 Yeah i think that's a pretty good perspective and if we adopt this world view of accepting the darkness as part of ourselves and really focusing on the deepest interconnectedness of all things in interpreting events and how they affect us as if they were dream. You know that's not to say we should act we asked and i list it way or a passive way to the totalitarianism but actually, should give you the strength to stand up to it if that's the role you choose to play and i think thats kind of a good way to potentially look at it because you could say well if its all a dream.

41:48 And the darkness is just part of myself, then nothing really matters. And I should just let them march me off to the quarantine camp." But really, if you accept that you have a role to play and that this is your dream maybe you stand up to it in a way that you wouldn't have without that worldview? Yeah, that's exactly right! Because the point is, is that we're all like even I think about myself. I'm just playing a role and it's not like other people need to write books or be like talking or giving interviews about what Tico or anything else? No this was just my role Like when I wake up in the morning, I don't have the slightest doubt of what I'm here to do And I've been fortunate and so then that brings us

42:37 contemplation of yeah, what is our role? Each of us have our role. Some of it might just be being a good father or mother whatever and one way to understand this the thing about the Watiko energy It's a mind virus that's a daimonic energy so it's not just a personal energy. It's a transpersonal energy It's an archetypal energy and The word daimon...it's a higher dimensional energy that can take over a person. It can possess a person so that they act it out and there are certain people who I think we've all seen at certain moments, oh wow they're taken over by something there you could say oh they're possessed by Watiko and that's what actually happening now the meaning of daimon is the guiding spirit, the inner voice connects us to our genius helps us define our vocation or calling and find our voice

43:33 encoded in the daimon is the creative spirit. So, the idea is to get into a relationship with this higher self part of ourselves with the daimon with our genius, with our angel or guiding spirit whatever there are a million names and all traditions pointing at this energy but if we don't get in conscious relationship It's just like being in an intimate relationship with a person. If you don't develop a conscious relationship with the daimon, it constellates negatively and becomes a demon. And that's what wetiko is. You liken to a demon. Right! And to alchemically transmutate wetiko and use it for its medicine as you say connecting to our true nature and connecting to our creative spirit

44:26 What would you say to those who feel like they need more guidance? Maybe they understand what the medicine is inside there, but they're having a hard time applying it to their own life. Connecting to the creative spirit. Give us some guidance on how to better do that and what it could do for us. For sure! And on one hand we all... It can be incredibly helpful to have teacher or mentor I mean I've had incredible number of just amazing teachers in my life So that itself can be helpful. I think about myself, so for years I was like well you know who am i or how do I describe myself and then at a certain point I realized well I'm a wounded healer and I say that because I'm so in touch with the depth of my woundedness of going through the trauma You know cause I had to go through it, I mean just made this slightest little reference to it at the beginning of this talk

45:19 But the idea, I had to go through this unbelievable wounding and dealing with this incredible abuse from my father but that's not important. The story of it and just the trauma in the wounding of it and that consolidated the wounded killer archetype So, you know that was really dangerous because I could have been caught by that or stuck in that or identified with that. But then the archetype has to do with like going through their woundedness You actually discover your gift and this is related to the shaman archetype and i can talk about this in a bit but The point that i'm wanting to get to so here i become...i'm an author i'm a creative writer And every morning i wake up and like this little

46:03 turtle when they're born on the shore and out of their eggs, they instinctively just crawl to the ocean. When I wake up in the morning, I'm like one of those little baby turtles just instinctively crawling to my computer to start to write. I don't ever think about what am I going to do? My whole being brings me to that but why I say that in the morning before I start writing—I'm brushing my teeth or whatever and I'm getting downloads And I've learned to differentiate the energetic signature between the downloads, between when my higher self is actually talking to me compared to the typical like some sari monkey mind where you know we're all familiar with that. We were just thinking and it's totally unproductive those are two different energetic signatures and when i get the downloads I learn to pay attention

46:57 And then at that point I feel like i'm just the employee and i'm getting the dictates from the boss about About what i'm gonna write about and how long right about it. How many connected to what i wrote about the other day all those things and that's an example of cultivating, relationship with the higher self part of you is ego self access according to death psychology that's the point of therapy when you read young. Is the whole thing he was trying to get you in the therapy that he created was to help connect the person with their guidance, with the higher self to cultivate the ego-self dialogue and access is what he called it. And it's back and forth, it's back and forth in the more you take him just like a dream think about what a dream is compensation so that dreams speaks in symbols and if you don't get this symbol of the dream will just repeat and repeat and repeat in amplified form and its like we're not getting the message from the waking dream but it's just getting more and more scarier and intense

47:59 But when you actually get into alignment with the symbol in the dream and take it in integrated then what happens this symbol immediately recalibrate itself. And gives you the next feature and then we take that is a reciprocal it co-arises the symbol and your psyche that's complaining the symbol are not two separate things so the point is to develop the interrelationship between ego part of you but what do you know just a conscious self and you could say the unconscious or wisdom of your conscience in the higher self with diamond whatever word use doesn't make a difference and that's the way and then it'll teach you everything that need to know if you give me anything you have well said

48:46 And man as we're coming to the end of the road, we need to save a little bit of time and talk about your practice and your offerings. What should people know about getting involved with this beyond the books that you've written? Yeah well okay so... On the one hand, I have a private practice where I work with people one-on-one you could say. So that's available. The problem is that I'm a little bit hesitant because my private practice is just getting so busy but they're still happy to work with people and I really get fed by that too. And then besides the books and interviews all of that it's on my website

49:26 But then I also am trying to bring out the people that we can be together in a way, you know? In a community. You know, a whole community is formed around me and Portland and it's your people who are awakening through the dreamlike nature and there is some way of coming together as individuals and collectively as a community where we can all like support each other's awakening and activate each other's creative power, genius and agency. So I have these groups and they're all you know there is a waiting list or hard to get in because there is only one of me yet they are in Portland Oregon where I am but then there was recently this year international group has started and I'm really just open to following your dream because with my work I mean I'm very aware that that I've tapped into something it's nothing personal but this is medicine this can really help people

50:22 It can help people both individually in their own personal process and help to alleviate their own suffering, and heal their own addictions. And I want to point out we're all struggling with addictions whether it's addiction to our process or addiction to our suffering or addiction to our story or addiction to the separate self It's not just people who are having substance addiction or, you know, whatever behavior addiction. We're all having to navigate through that realm of addiction and so the point is is that yeah there's something that I have no doubt that I've tapped into with nothing to do with me. I'm just an instrument and there are a lot of us who were tapping into it sort of like the source. I'm just creatively expressing it my own way and I'm just wanting to get this out

51:09 both for individuals but also the idea of creating more community, you know? Because so many of us are awakening to this and articulating it in their own way. And we can all help each other and step out of the separate self together and reinforce and support each other's creative articulations. That's in essence what I'm doing and what's available on my website. And I don't have a particular specific idea of what that's going to look like because it's an unfoldment I've been doing this over 25 years, but it feels now like now is really the time. Guatico is this magical idea whose time has come and just like somebody an artist creates a work of art and they offer it then it's out of their possession. I have no idea what this is going to look like when this information gets out that really impacts people because I'm just an instrument for offering it and we'll just see."

52:08 Yes, well I think you do a great job and it's time definitely has come because it's never been easier to see this pathology in our culture at basically every level and scale. So yeah, I think what you're doing is really useful for people and you mentioned future books on Wetiko coming out what aspects are going to be added to the stack compared to what's already been said? Yeah, well the next one that comes out in 2022 which I've already given over the manuscript. That's basically pointing out Huatico as this revelation so really pointing out that it has this revelatory aspect because you know we think about like a revelation coming through oh i've seen the light but seeing the darkness is a form of illumination too and encoded in what Huatico it's a profound revelation

53:02 And so one of the major themes in the book is that and also i began to really talk about. What he go how it affects informs influences our relationships because you know its not just an abstract idea i'm sure we've all experience weather it's with her intimate partner with a group of friends or family where all of us are there'll be this something in the air and they'll be misunderstanding or it will create separation, people will get hurt. And one way of really understanding when you take on board and go online with the Watiko idea, you begin to see oh my god that's Watiko here is how it works and you actually begin to see how it actually insinuates itself via the unconscious of people through the medium of relationships

53:55 to create separation and misunderstanding in the heart. So that's another part of the book, yeah. And the thing about what you go I just thought when I wrote Dispelling Watiko in 2013 that would be the end of it but then little did I realize It was just a never-ending revelation that I tapped into now I wrote a second book and I thought that was it and then there is third book that will be out next year Now the fourth book is already starting God knows when this is going to end but I'm not complaining Because you know it's hard work to get but when you get it, you want to take advantage and offer yourself to be in service Yes. Yes It's a multi-faced monster and there's an infinite number of ways to come at it I guess one thing about it like this in quantum physics when they discover the quantum which is because what he go was a quantum phenomena

54:44 the image that the physicists would use, it was like they had this weird animal in an ad. They locked it up at an animal house with windows and they were going around this round animal house peering into all of the windows trying to describe this weird animal that they saw from different perspectives through each window. And then they were putting their pictures together to try to understand what was this weird type of quantum animal that they discovered? It's exactly the same thing with Huatico. Right on! Yeah well Awesome. This has been a real pleasure, lots of great stuff to reflect on. Of course your website is awakeninthedream.com any other links or final words to leave people with? No that's really it other than when you awaken when I have those moments are really awakening in the dream

55:35 Because people ask me, oh how can I have lucid dreams or awaken in this dream? And i've noticed for me whenever I have those real moments of awakening right there is always compassion. And there's never not compassion and the point is if you want to really. More awake in a dream to cultivate real compassion, no for that supermarket clerk who's wearing three masks as an example or people who are in the positions of power and for ourselves. And do the extent that we really cultivate our compassion that is the doorway to nature

56:14 And I think that's like really a very easy and simple way to understand how can we be of benefit in this world. Yeah, well cheers to that! Very nice. Well had a great time super insightful keep doing what you do man and take care Thank You Greg it's really just great and so much fun getting to hang out with you So thank you All right all right trying to find a method to the madness Paul Levy going deep I hope you liked it. He certainly has a lot of disciples out there, so many requests over the last year or two and i'm glad we were finally able to get together this new book and the climate of our times both make for great components to a robust wetiko conversation You guys know I love The Mystics! And The Modern Day Shamans! The people with some idea how this spiritual dimension affects the world we think we know

57:14 And people certainly do seem possessed and obsessed these days. Fear definitely does something to the minds of those it's feeding on, and if ideas and thoughts and entities are real and influential this would be a major area of that influence People much smarter than me have taken this very seriously Steiner, Jung, Reich I even think back to Dr Tom Zinzer in Soul-Centered Healing It's a context we should consider when things aren't going quite right. But this was exactly the thing I was getting at with Dr Stephen Usher in that episode about Steiner, there was part where were talking about technology and media being able to affect mass consciousness in a way that isn't exactly natural? So if spirits get strength from ideas and certain ideas and thoughts go global

58:04 It's a level of energy suck that kind of isn't supposed to happen. Seems like it could create some very big monsters and one of them seems to be Wateeko! Listening back, I think i sounded a bit thornier than usual maybe its sleep deprivation and crying baby consciousness but when we get into these topics of dream realities and fear being possession Sometimes there are phrases like, we are destroying the biosphere or wake yourself up and the world wakes with you or change your inner world and watch your outer world change with it. And it's just when we democratize the crimes of the Capstone Cabal and say WE are doing stuff that kinda gets under my skin But also I have done so much work on myself since 2010 and I'm not done by any means

58:56 On the long list of areas where one would want to make progress, I think there's at least a few more drops in the important buckets than there was. You can kind of see it in the archive if you look at the ratio of dark depressing conspiracy rabbit holes versus real practical and positive solutions to live a better life The evidence for evolution is there yet the world is on the brink of full blown global Nazism I don't mean to use the loaded term, but camps? Medical experimentation? Mind control? Every aspect we've looked at from those outpourings is going on now and it's all global. Like how is that a reflection of anything in me? I'm sure a lot of you guys feel the same way, don't ya? And if it somehow is well... It would be a much better match for my 19 year old self than my 36 year old self so why now?

59:51 And I ask that same question in several different ways, probably two times too many today. But i do like his answers! I find them hopeful and infectious... another loaded term but I suppose we're still in the middle of the story and time will tell if this leads to something better when you zoom out Paul definitely captures my attention though and carries the hallmarks of a person who has had that genuine spiritual breakthrough and I have a lot of respect for him for that and I greatly enjoyed the book One line I'll probably be repeating from this was that cultivating our compassion is the doorway to our true nature and an easy and simple way to understand how we could be of benefit in this world. Because, I have seen such a huge lack of compassion out there from any and all sides And in this country that will lead to the divorce people have been predicting Maybe we want that? I don't know

1:00:46 I just hate to see us over-intellectualize life as a dream and our existence just being a mechanism so consciousness can experience itself subjectively in the Grand Illusion. Because while we're doing that, the totalitarian steamroll is making its moves and i would hate to see us turn the other cheek until all four are beaten beyond raw! Really though, to be lucid in the dream to me is to be more proactive in it So that is The Takeaway The themes like be the hero of your own story because if it is as Bill Hicks said just a ride I would suggest we at least try to take the wheel and i know Paul would agree. In higher side news, the 50% off gifting subscriptions are still going on till the end of the holidays Higher Side meetups are still being made We got Portland and New York City coming up this weekend

1:01:43 I hope you guys have a good time with that. If you're in the area, let me know how it went! Of course today's episode has a second hour for Plus Members as usual sign up through TheHigherSideChats.com or Patreon A good chunk of that second hour was me fishing for advice for all the people who have contacted me and said things along those lines, like I was hospitalized and put on medication. I had a schizophrenic episode and quickly learned not to talk about The Voices Because I have heard a lot of similar things over the years and i'm curious what that is. I don't think it's a disorder, but some of you might be surprised by the number of people who reach out saying that this episode or that episode of THC helped them recontextualize those sort-of textbook getting caught in the system situations

1:02:35 And since Paul navigated that with such success, I know there are people listening who maybe need to hear some of that even if it is a small minority. Because really if you don't know someone that they're calling crazy these days then you don't know enough people But also in the second hour we talked about Paul's personal breakthrough experience How to deal with the Wateco captured persons in our lives. How alien abduction might relate to Wateco, how Wateco affects our health and possibly the health of the elite? Why all domesticated humans are sick? Philip K Dix Black Iron Prison

1:03:16 Wetiko's siblings and extended family, creativity and parasitic entities...and a little bit about addiction. So become a Plus Member and get a lot of great stuff with all the shows I do around here! Maybe today is the one that tips you over the edge? I definitely found it to be pretty unique and Paul is a very captivating speaker and a bright mind and I just like the perspective of all this stuff that he gives in the book and we tried to relay in this interview. So big thanks to him, and a big thanks as well to those who do reciprocate with PLUS memberships couldn't do it without you always looking to make the family bigger wink-wink nudge-nudge but keep your heads up out there! And be your best selves especially during the holidays I've done my part Your move Wetiko Mind Virus and its thoroughly seduced foot soldiers

1:04:12 Your fucking move. Don't be sheep to your slaughter for the rest of your life Oppressed, oppressed but you're getting woke You say you don't want to be stressed until the day you die Tough luck my friend Did ya get the memo? Can't you see that we're so screwed? Don't you know we're arc? Can't you just admit we're screwed I'm gonna test anyway It's a skit okay Can't you see that we're so-

1:05:28 You sit and wish but we don't have a choice It seems we're stuck here But you can find nose to drown out the noise Now use that all time End up your magic game Listen to THC, you know Go with the ed tees If you ever see Don't be sheep to your slaughter for the rest of your life Oppressed, oppressed but you're getting woke You say you don't want to be stressed until the day you die Tough luck my friend Did ya get the memo? Can't you see that we're so screwed? Don't you know where our cum- Can't you just admit we're screwed I'm gonna tug anyway It's okay, ayy

1:06:55 Don't be sheep to your slaughter for the rest of your life Oppressed, oppressed but you're getting woke You say you don't want to be stressed until the day you die Tough luck my friend Did ya get the memo? Can't you see that we're so screwed? Don't you know we are kung fu? Can't you just admit we're screwed I'm gonna tell you this anyway It's hysterical gay

1:07:48 Can't you see that we're