Nick Redfern | Biblical ETs, Ancient Otherworldly Manipulation, & Alien Demons

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats Happy Monday morning, Hireside Chatters. Drink a little drink smoking a little smoke and just trying to keep my head on straight in a crooked world Some of us are looking at a week ahead where another person basically a stranger has laid out before you what two days You're allowed to use to enjoy your life Maybe you're getting ready for or commuting to such a situation Or you're in the lucky few who can actually entertain an auditory escape from your penance for manifesting in the Rockefeller Rothschild reality

01:00 Whatever the case may be, we're getting weird while it's still legal people. Today one of my favorite OGs of THC Nick Redfern returns his new book is so thick and full of great stuff We never even made it past the first section about ancient aliens ET explanations for biblical stories ancient texts alluding to a devastating war, underground entity string pulling of the power pyramid-a personal favorite of course! And a whole lot of other stuff. So put on your hooded robes and find yourself a seat around the pentagram because we're doing this thing with Nick Redfern. Enjoy! Alright people, today we're looking at many of the various conspiratorial and paranormal breadcrumbs to some of the most interesting stories mysteries and cover-ups out there. And with me is just the guy to do it Nick Redfern back in the saddle once again The hardest working conspiracy author on this island earth We've talked to him before about his books Monster Files The Real Men In Black

02:15 Pyramid in the Pentagon, For Nobody's Eyes Only and Close Encounters of the Fatal Kind over the course of The Higher Side Chat's lifetime. Once again he has churned out yet another great book called Secret History Conspiracies from Ancient Aliens to The New World Order that explores the details behind 60 different topics and weighs in at 400 pages a conspiratorial grab bag of goodness I'm psyched to have him here talk about some of it Nick my man welcome back Hey Greg, thanks for having me on again. Yeah it's a real pleasure I love this book and obviously a lot of my interviews start off with me saying kind of something like that but honestly it covers so much and is probably my new favorite conspiracy encyclopedia style book man Oh well thanks a lot! What I try to do with the book what I always try and do with the book is give the reader something new and I thought when Visible Inc., the publisher asked me to do the book you know they've

03:08 they're pretty flexible, a good company to work with and I said well you know we want to book on conspiracies but just do it the way you want to do it so I put a synopsis together and said how about this instead of just sort of 10 or 15 top conspiracies where each one runs for like 25-30 pages or whatever, why not give the readers sort of 60 cases where you'd still within the page count be able to give a good solid overview of the cases and theories and everything else. but also touch upon some lesser known conspiracies and also where their well-known ones bring new information to the table. And they like the approach, so that's basically what I did with it." Yeah man it's like a conspiracy 101 textbook! I think it's perfect too give to skeptics or people in your life who might think you've gone off the deep end for people who are listening this kind of stuff

04:04 Because you can give it to them and in just a few short pages they can kind of get the gist of it and dig deeper if they want. Yeah, I think this is one of the issues with a lot of books on conspiracy theories that through no fault of any author very often conspiracy theories are extremely complex so they typically don't attract audiences outside conspiracy field, you know where we might sit down and sort of dig deep into a 400 page new book on the Kennedy assassination. You know it's sort of self-reaching data that lot of people are like well I don't believe in conspiracies and i'm not going to read a four hundred page book on this one theory but I found that people actually like it when you're not sort

04:49 cutting it short or cutting corners, but you do sort of an extensive chapter that covers the different theories like Kennedy assassination or Roswell presents the different theories and scenarios to the reader tries to figure out which ones are the most likely ones and explain how and why. And I think people even outside the field can appreciate that, you know? That they might take half an hour to read one of the chapters or whatever and they think well you know i've got an overview of it whether I agree with it or not I understand what the conspiracy theory is now and I think that's one of the issues with a lot of conspiracy theories there so far wide-ranging and complex

05:29 a lot of people just don't understand necessarily the full complexity of it, you know? Yeah. I'm with you man! So let's dive into some of this stuff to kick it off lets go into the old stuff, the biblical stuff You make up pretty interesting case that Moses experience with the Ten Commandments story might have been a misinterpretation of UFO encounter and I think that's pretty intriguing how would you make the case for that Well, yeah. I mean the first section of the book deals totally with sort of ancient astronaut scenarios and the reason why i wanted to include that in a book on conspiracies is because you know we know that over the years various centuries we know that various ancient religious texts and manuscripts have been rewritten reworked translated parts have been deleted and changed around according

06:22 sort of the ideas and beliefs of the people, or the place. And so in that sense it's relevant because it's not just about ancient alien stuff but also about us rewriting portions of what we're told is historical facts according to the beliefs at the time which This sort of brings us into the issue that you mentioned about Moses and the Ten Commandments. Now, regardless of what people think of it everybody knows a story of Moses in the Ten Commandments essentially he goes up the mountain Mount Sinai I should say, goes at the mountain

07:00 essentially you can sort of put what he had posted on it because he goes into the map the mountain i'd say to burning bush which some people perceive as like a brightly lit ufo and then received these ten commandments from god which is essentially all laws laid down about what you will do but she what you won't go you know you want to be better at such a picture now why this intriguing is because These stories of Moses and Mount Sinai, the Ten Commandments very closely parallel with a lot of the reports from the so-called contactees of the 1950s who claimed encounters with the so called Space Brothers out at desert locations. And if you look at these stories they closely parallel as I said these story of Moses that's why

07:51 I suggest in the book, the theory is it possible that Moses was actually an early contactee. For example most of the contactees of the early to mid 1950s had their encounters out at desert locations where they felt compelled to go to specific isolated spots sometimes in the day, very often at night. And they would climb the mountains for the first time not even knowing why they were doing it, just felt compelled to do it and as they got high up the mountain they would see this light in the sky which bigger and closer, then it would transform as he got closer into what you would call like a typical 1950s era flying saucer. It would land these very human and interestingly enough some of them described as angelic looking sort in the shining bright white lights, whitely lit I should say clothing and long hair that they had

08:49 this sort of angelic aura to them and they would essentially tell the contactees, you know we want to try and help the planet or help a human race. And so we provided these guidelines which we would like you to get out to the general public like you know we should do away with nuclear weapons that kind of thing. So it was almost like an upgraded situation of what came in the distant past and again I mean, I know that mixing religion with UFOs is... sort of an inflammatory issue at the best of times, and it polarizes people into different camps. But I would urge people to look at the undeniable parallels—whether they think that theory is valid or not—there are undeniable parallels between the story of Moses and the story of the contactees. You know as I said, the mountains something coming down, the laws that are given by these higher entities essentially spread the word,

09:47 In those senses, it's very similar. Story that does have a lot of parallels in particular is this George Van Tassel story apparently this happened near Joshua Tree of all places Tell us about that one and kind of the information he was given during his encounter. Well, yeah George Van Tassel was one of the leading contactees of the 1950's and He lived just outside of Landers in California which

10:23 isn't at all far from Joshua Tree. Now, George Van Tassel and his family moved from California used to work for the Hughes Aircraft Company was actually good friends with Howard Hughes but the Van Tassel family moved to Giant Rock which is an area just outside Landers called Giant Rock because of this gigantic rock there. He actually made a home for himself in a large hollowed out cavern, for want of a better term beneath giant rock and it was like a modern day Flintstones type environment almost

11:03 And so the family lived there. And like some of the contactees, Van Tassel sort of gravitated towards UFO phenomenon and felt compelled to go out into the desert night around Landers and Giant Rock Joshua Tree where he would see UFOs that would come down and essentially commune with the aliens now what's interesting is that a lot of the material that Van Tassel got from his alleged space brothers placed religion in a very different context to what traditional teachings suggest. For example, he was told that the story of Noah's Ark had a basis in fact but the idea was that it was essentially like a space ark containing various examples of human and animal life

11:51 which possibly was brought here when some worldwide disaster was about to occur. And so essentially the story is that extraterrestrials tried to make sort of mercy-based visits and save as much as they could, and then these huge arcs would orbit the Earth until the floods and everything else calmed down then there were land and drop off as much as survived just start over again that kind of thing he also believed based on his teachings of what he was told that the story about a buddy he believed adam and ivor actually not one man in one moment but essentially the female in the mail of the first species which potentially with sort of like a genetically altered entity you know i'm upgraded version of an ape using dna manipulation gene splicing to something closer to a human and then we started too

12:46 evolved from there. So that was really the thrust of his story, what's interesting is this goes back to the 50s which was sort of way before obviously things like ancient aliens and even decades before Eric von Daniken so in that sense Van Tassel is a real trendsetter in the ancient aliens world if you like but certainly the fact that he was saying a lot of things in nineteen fifties america here would have gone down well with a lot of people and the fbi opened an extensive file on him not today bumping actually uh... agents actually went to be to give it is java car one several occasions to get his views on why he was claiming the idea to hear and um...

13:27 I actually reproduced the text of one of the documents in the book, which actually heavily focuses on the issue of religion. And the FBI took great note of what he was saying about religion and why. He was hitting raw nerves and people in government were a little bit concerned about it as well." Yeah, I was gonna bring that up what you said about this being in the 1950s because in terms of the Ark story if someone were to come out and say that today like it's actually kind of commonplace in ufology To think about that story because we know about genetic samples and DNA but in the 50s. I mean that makes it more intriguing Because if he were to just be making that up off the top of his head You know, he's pretty smart

14:12 No, you're right. And I mean that sort of really hits home with that issue I mentioned of not many people really in sort of 53-54 were...I mean there were one or two like Maurice Chessworth but hardly anybody really in the UFO subject was focusing on the distant past they were mainly focusing on flying saucer sightings that were going on when there was such a massive wave in the 50's and 40's But yeah, I mean he covered not just sort of the Ten Commandments, the story of Noah's Ark Adam and Eve. He also basically essentially said that the entire world of religion was based around visitations from extraterrestrials

14:53 and what was interesting was that he also talked about jesus you know being born of mary but that mary was already impregnated by extraterrestrials and essentially the jesus was was one of them so to speak. So in that sense, he even brought sort-of a genetic angle into visitations which really didn't kick off big time until the seventies when alien abductions became more and more prevalent. You know, we had one or two like the Betty and Barney Hill case which had like a sexual reproductive aspect to it but it wasn't sort of fully made clear but certainly in the 70s and you know then the work of Bud Hopkins in the 80's and people like that It really took off massively But Van Tassel was talking about this genetic link

15:37 and you know, Mary being pregnant and that Jesus was like a combination of us and them. He was talking about that in like 1958. Yeah... That's crazy man! And that one sentence I have highlighted here was he was told that humans were molded and guided by ETs posing as gods for thousands of years and that is right up my alley because i love the stories of potentially inner earth beings coming up to the surface and manipulating it. I mean, we have stories from Constantine Napoleon Hitler and Eisenhower all have met or there's rumors that they met with something that seemed non-human and right there if you had that kind of directed contact, that's a lot of influence you could have over this world just by meeting with those four key players and no one else would even know everyone else would just think they're crazy because no one else is having these

16:27 widespread encounters and I think that's really intriguing. I love that thread. Yeah, I mean that's an interesting angle what you bring up the whole idea as well of entities underground. This sort of gets to an entirely separate but also credible theory in my view at least granted it requires that we believe in the possibility that there could be subterranean races deep underground but on the one hand It would make a great deal of sense if there were things like this and possibly they even posed as extraterrestrials. I kind of think that's an interesting thing, it is one that you know is not new one and the most recent version was Mac Tony's The Crypto Terrestrial book the idea of like an ancient terrestrial race that moved underground when we started to infest the planet and cause hassle so they just surfaced now again

17:20 checking on what we're doing because unfortunately they are forced to share the planet with this pretty war-like species and if we destroy ourselves, then we will destroy them as well. It's almost ironic that people chasing UFOs and aliens, if you look at it from the perspective Most of the aliens, you know they don't wear helmets. They seem perfectly accustomed to our gravity and oxygen levels and everything else but always worried about what we're going to do to the planet maybe that's because all of that is because they really are from the planet You know? And their forced to share it with us What better way to protect their real identities than to consistently

18:00 and constantly keep telling us, oh yeah we're extraterrestrial and this is what we're doing etc. It would be kind of a logical thing that people like that might do you? Yeah... And I had another guest Michael Mott who brought up the idea that a lot of these stories involve genetics well why would some beings be able to travel from zeta reticulata here but not have an advanced genetics program? Ours is almost pretty advanced Why would the genetics be compatible? Yet, if there was a subterranean race that maybe survived previous cataclysm and has been kind of pulling the puppet strings throughout history from below they would have compatible genetics to some degree.

18:40 No, you're right. Mike's written some good stuff on that theory and he has a lot of solid data in his books and it is good to have somebody who has and still is focusing on that one area because you are right. entities from some far away star system would come here and possibly would want to sort of tinker with us and figure out our genetics. But for them to come here, and for us to be so compatible where supposedly they can create hybrid babies or hybrid children with complete ease

19:17 They can operate, like I said in our atmosphere. They seem to have no trouble doing that and they always seem to want to tell us that we're from here or we're from there. That makes me a little bit suspicious almost like they are overplaying the card. To help emphasize and you know that the danger is sometimes people think well hang on some come from Venus some come from this star system some come from that star system. We're pummeled with names and planets and stars You know, could there really be that many different races coming or could it be kind of a ruse to keep us all running around like headless chickens when the real secret that we should be looking deep below us remains hidden? Yeah. I mean just being in the conspiracy world We're always trying to figure out who's at the top of the pyramid who are the real string pullers and That gets really interesting to me that it might be some small group of

20:11 strange-looking humans that have been here way longer than us, that are just manipulating us through like George Van Tassel said the use of religion you know getting Constantine to have a vision on the field. The Tibetan who met with Hitler the Greys who met with Eisenhower I mean who knows if these are all just different ways of expressing the same group of beings Well I sometimes wonder, you know if the... when it comes to this sort of underground ancient humanoid crypto-terrestrial thing. If things like the Men in Black could be connected you know not with the government side of it which is a limited angle but sort of the weirder men in black you know these sort of creepy five foot tall skinny pale ones that generally only surface at night and they cover themselves up with trench coats and pulled down fedoras and sunglasses maybe they do that

21:01 to menace us, you know which works but maybe also it's a camouflage so these underground dwellers can move amongst us when they need to. Yeah and perhaps they adopt the imagery of the Men in Black as a means to do that. Maybe if they lived on the ground all coming out in the day wouldn't be that good for them. It'd be kind of taxing, you know particularly in the West Coast heat or whatever so they come out at night predominantly to do what they've got to do and it's cooler and They're able to cope with things easier Yeah yeah That's a great point too And another area that this kinda dovetails into is also something you wrote about in the book There have been researchers I've interviewed who talk

21:46 or they speculate I guess, about a serious high-tech war of mass destruction in the ancient past. And we're talking about a group that might have survived natural cataclysm but they also might have survived some type of massive war but there's considerable amount of physical evidence out there that suggests there might've been some massive nuclear or other type of energy war fought in the ancient past isn't there? Yeah, there actually is. And if you want a little scoop which no one else has yet that's actually the subject of a forthcoming book from me like an entire book on that subject and the idea of we're not the first to develop atomic weapons and You know maybe There were multiple civilizations whether localized or worldwide Possibly more likely to be localized in certain areas that came before us and destroyed themselves but

22:40 you know a lot of people scoff at the idea but throughout all cultures pretty much you can find stories, legends whatever you want to call them have highly advanced human civilizations that peaked and then mysteriously vanished or destroyed themselves. I mean perfect examples are like Atlantis now a lot of people relegate the story of Atlantis which came from Plato and you know, the story is that well it was just an invention of Plato but the more you look into it the more you find that the likelihood is a lot of these ancient stories in Atlantis were based upon if you like sort of word-of-mouth passed down through generations or oral traditions have highly advanced cultures

23:27 that possessed incredible technology and destroyed themselves. If you look at things like for example the Mahabharata and Ramayana talking about sort of ancient confrontations in ancient India You know you have these stories about these iron rods being unleashed and cities destroyed and gigantic flashes and people falling down dead and fingernails falling out, things like that. It kind of sounds eerily like early descriptions of nuclear war but from the perspective of people who generations down the line

24:06 remembered the legends but didn't have an understanding of what nuclear war was. And so we've got things like that, we also have sort a lot anomalous craters around the world which show evidence where the sand has been turned to fused glass now this actually relates to something called trinitite Trinitite was a substance that was found at the site of the first atomic bomb test in Alamogordo, New Mexico in 1945 just before the two atomic bombs were dropped on Japan to end the war. But the first test or essentially only test before the two bombs were dropped was at this place called The Trinity Site and when they... it was safe enough to go out of the site they found

24:51 the scientists and technicians found this fused glass that became known as trinitite. And basically, it occurs... The sand becomes like a glassy... It's actually not glass but it's like a glass-like substance when exposed to incredible heat. And there are various places in the Middle East particularly Israel where archaeologists digging down at lower and lower levels came across particularly in the 50s what sounded chillingly like trinitites the theory again being that certain areas of the planet were raised to the ground in atomic skirmishes tens and tens of thousands years ago. Now, of course this requires us to sort of rewrite history books on when the human race was developing and civilized you know I mean most conservative archaeologists and historians are sort of willing to go back sort of five six seven eight thousand years

25:46 you know to the early years of settlement that was wasn't just sort of people living in caves or whatever you know but this would require us to go back tens and tens of thousands of years because if we were talking anything less than that i think they would say far more remnants an evidence of it and i don't think we're talking about so worldwide civilizations like we have today i think we talk about possibly where There could well have been highly advanced cultures in India, Pakistan, Middle East and South America which is what a lot of these stories about these ancient nuclear attacks suggest. But the rest of the world may still have been living like the Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals that may all be going on in one part of the world at the same time as the Neanderthals and the Cro-Magnon were fighting woolly mammoths for food that kind of thing

26:38 Yeah, I don't think we're talking about a worldwide culture. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if Entities you know civilizations had flourished Destroyed themselves and then they become legend yeah Maybe 20,000 years from now will be somebody's Atlantis You know people would say that's nonsense you go where the first there was no one before us yeah There was no America but That's funny because it's just like an old Einstein quote that I always really liked. He said something to the effect of, I don't know what weapons the third world war will be fought with but the fourth world war will be fought with sticks and stones. That implies like the secular nature of increasing technology destroying yourself and then rebuilding

27:19 Well, yeah. I mean that actually brings home a good point because a lot of people...I mean you know with all the rumblings with Vladimir Putin threatening to put missiles back in Europe and then we've got to do the same and build up with Iran and North Korea A lot of people say, well this is all going to spill over into nuclear war and we should launch first and just get it over with. A lot of people who say that are dangerous because they don't realize that even in today's world with the Cold War over and Russia being Russia not the Soviet Union, we all still have enough missiles to flatten each other. A lot of people don't know that the missiles we have today, their capabilities are like 70 times more powerful than the ones dropped on Japan. Anybody seen the explosions on Nagasaki and Hiroshima and the devastation Death Acorn? You imagine one bomb 60-70 times the power of that, and then you know we have dozens or hundreds, the Russians have hundreds, the Chinese do

28:19 nobody would win and it wouldn't be a case of like in these stupid old nineteen fifties here isn't warnings for propaganda war is where but they'll all go to get under a table with a blanket you know that would be ridiculous if he were to be complete destruction for everybody and you would have, it was actually a British study that was undertaken. It was classified for years because the government didn't want to worry the population and this is in the 60's when the population of UK was about 45-50 million they estimated 35-40 million would die in the blast

28:55 which would leave 10 million or so left, at which they figured about 8 million would die from injuries burns and radiation poisoning. And within a year the population would have gone from like 55 million to perhaps 1 million if that those would be would die younger, they would develop leukemia or whatever through the radiation. Their children would be stunted, they would certainly be illiterate you know they would have no understanding of electricity or concept of television and nothing there would be back to barbarism essentially and their offspring within two generations we will be back to like just primitive people again

29:35 Yeah, man. And I always wonder if the elite have at least some of these same curiosities about gaining insight and technology from a more advanced past? One thread that kind of jives with that is also in your book is researchers have talked about thinking there's a subtext to many wars and military occupations that the elite are trying to get some type of ancient knowledge or artifacts from the region. And we did hear some stories about Iraq and the looting of the museum there, which might kind of tie in here but it is an interesting saga tell us about that a little bit?

30:14 Yeah, this is an interesting story. It's a strange one as well appropriately strange You know the lot of controversy surrounding the invasion of Iraq just from a down-to-earth perspective Of the fact that Osama bin Laden was actually in Afghanistan That's one thing but that's beside the point you know they're one of the stories is at least a portion of the invasion of Iraq was prompted by, like you said, suspicions theories ideas that maybe ancient technology really did exist whether extraterrestrial or something that ancient civilizations from here developed into question. But a lot of these rumors surrounded for example the stories about Anunnaki

30:59 The idea of these manipulative, powerful extraterrestrials visiting the Earth thousands and thousands of years ago. And stories range from them doing genetic experiments with the gods coming down and mating with women of men that kind of those legends...and also using us as slave races but one of the theories is that the Anunnaki had found ways to massively extend their lifespans and some evidence these technologies remained deep in the hearts of Iraq. And again, one of the conspiracy theories is that units went in to try and find this sort of ancient Anunnaki technology essentially to provide it for the elite. You'd have an elite that could extend their lifespans to who knows how many years? I mean, it's an interesting fact but there are a lot

31:52 I time scale in the same way that a cat might live to 17 or 18. So, that is an interesting theory but bolstering that idea of government agencies taking an interest in the mysteries of their very distant past... I have a chapter in the book about the c.i.a.'s quest to find noah's ark now you know i think of a c.i.a.. You think of overthrowing evil dictators in south america or the middle east, you know assassinations that kind of thing...You don't expect them to have a fairly extensive file on Noah's Ark but they actually do and it surfaced through the freedom information act

32:44 or various files have surfaced over the years, which collectively amount to about 70 or 80 pages plus a number of documents and 1949 era photographs from the Air Force. Which seem to show some sort of object embedded in the ice high in the peaks of Mount Ararat and um...of course This sort of ties into a degree with the stories of George Van Tassel and I speculate, is it possible that we know for sure that government agencies were interested in George Van Tassel's theories about Noah's Ark being some sort of space ark that possibly even crashed on Mount Ararat like an ancient Roswell or something like

33:26 The fact that they were interested in that has to make you wonder if somebody then thought, well you know if it's true and this was the 50s as well maybe we should take a closer look at what's allegedly seen on Mount Ararat. That might explain why the Air Force and CIA had repeated missions with like the U-2 spy plane imagery of allegedly Noah's Ark. We also know from a former CIA guy named Miles Copeland, who was the station chief in Damascus that the CIA in 1947 was very interested in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Miles Copeland

34:07 just deep interest of the c.i.a and apparently they got their hands on one scroll uh... panic on my way to be with you this calls a fact which never ever has made it today official famous collection you know that you can say i'm he said he went direct to the c.i.a after was brought into the embassy in damascus it was sort of surreptitiously sent over to to washington dc and disappeared in the c.i.a's vault so uh...

34:49 We know for sure through the Freedom of Information Act that there is interest in the mysteries of the past. I don't think government agencies have all the answers to what went on in the past, they may not actually have any solid answers but there's no doubt from reading the files that there are certain people who've had deep suspicions that in the distant past there were advanced technologies and if we could tap into them today It could perhaps even radically change our society as well. But I am a little bit curious, we were talking about the ancient search for the secrets of immortality or life extension and you talk about that in terms of this white gold powder. Or maybe that this might be what they call mana in the bible and it might have some type of effect on longevity? And it might tie into

35:50 the era of Gilgamesh because apparently he reigned for a hundred and twenty years. Who knows how old he was when he took the crown, but if that number is correct they definitely had something going on. Well yeah I mean this is one of these areas where no pun intended you know it's like an article of faith really literally in the sense that either have to accept that somehow in the distant past people, certain people elite people lived massively extended lives or it was just a fable to try and emphasize the importance of these people. Now of course Noah and Methuselah, Methuselah being the oldest person in the Bible allegedly of course and Moses excuse me and Noah you know live massively extended lives

36:39 You also have the story of Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which talks again about a flood and people in relation to that scenario for the flood being granted extended lives by the gods. And you're right, manna the cultures totally separate to each other, that just possibly... and they're telling very similar stories. That there's often a basis in fact like flood legends the specifics differ but the basics are very often the same that numerous cultures have flood legends so when you find numerous stories from different cultures and eras of people having extended lifespans either it's not true or it is and if it is true

37:38 What is the secret that allows either the slowing of the aging process or the regeneration of cells? These are issues that are actually quite deeply still being studied. There're people who've written extensively on these. I'm not talking about just people outside of the field but people in the world of medicine studying very closely why we age, how we age and what can be done to combat it. So maybe somebody really did tap into the answer thousands of years ago and perhaps today people suspect it and they're trying to find out

38:14 If that data somewhere still exists and if it does, can we find it and use it? Yeah. That would be so interesting to find out I mean even Sumerian and Egyptian pharaohs they have long reigns as well And when this is they're talking about a white type of gold powder I wonder if it might tie into the lost art of alchemy which is really intriguing also Well Yeah, I mean alchemy is kind of a similar thing. The whole idea of transmutating one thing into another you know essentially if you're talking about a similar thing the whole philosopher's stone that sort of angle You're talking about essentially altering something into something else mutating it and maybe some of that is at the heart of this whole immortality angle

38:58 that there is actually a way to slow or possibly even stop the aging process. Nobody's saying that Noah and Materia Zulli lived forever but they certainly lived tremendous amounts supposedly, centuries and centuries almost 1000 years. Again, it's how – I'm not a particularly religious person either so it really depends on how you interpret it. Whether you interpret the stories as real or not, or you interpret it like a magical substance like manna, or you interpret is as science and technology medical-based genetics based that really does exist and who knows? And I wouldn't be surprised if true or not.

39:43 It wouldn't surprise me if attempts have been made to at least check out these different sites and parts of the planet where The stories were coming from because government agencies do spend a lot of money on unusual subjects So it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination To suggest someone had looked into something like that. Yeah, and on the subject of going back a little bit too the Museum of Iraq, the Natural Museum of Iraq being ransacked during the invasion. One note I did have here is that the Colonel who was kind of in charge of at least trying to get some of that stuff back there's a quote from him where he said it's inconceivable to me that the basement was breached and items stolen without an intimate insider knowledge of the museum and about 10 thousand pieces were stolen only 650 recovered

40:34 That's a lot of stuff. And who knows if the whole war was just a guise to get that stuff? I mean, Hitler he sent a lot of campaigns out there looking for occult artifacts maybe we're doing the same. Well yeah and destroy the looting or the alleged looting well we know there was genuine looting at the Baghdad Museum There is no doubt about that but one of those things being put forward was when it happened the looting was sort of encouraged and undercover of all the chaos that was going on with the genuine looting, there were certain people in the know who knew very well where they wanted to go and target certain portions of the museum, particularly the basement areas. And get their hands on whatever it was they wanted to get their hands on

41:23 We know for example that legitimate attempts, very good attempts were made by the US military to try and salvage and get back as much of this material evidence as possible. But then you have the theory that there was like another sort of far more covert group but the group doing the good work didn't even know this other body existed. So in other words, you had two arms possibly of one agency with different agendas want to legitimately try and save for posterity all this amazing historical material and historic material and someone else that wanted to grab it amid all the chaos and the looting and the anarchy going on in the museum but it allowed somebody to sort of move under the radar and grab whatever they wanted

42:12 Yeah, man. I think that's so fascinating and if if there ever was a chaotic invasion of America somehow I mean the Smithsonian is rumored to have all kinds of things in their basement and if you could get down there and Disclose what's there? I mean I feel like it would probably be similar to The 10,000 artifacts that could be hidden away in the basement of an Iraqi Museum Yeah, which kind of you know as a more of a more up-to-date parallel as well that when the war was spiraling second world wars spiraling down to an end. You had like a lot of Hitler's cronies planning to smuggle ancient artifacts massive amount of paintings and priceless statues artifacts some it was siphoned through the Vatican into their vaults there rumors today even have you know massive underground areas where supposedly

43:03 ancient artwork and thousands of years old statues, things like this are still preserved and stored in like old reworked train tunnels and underground installations. And all the military factories that were built by the Nazis during the war that may have been converted and some of this material evidence might still be you know still standing there somewhere so there's a lot of...you don't just have necessarily have to go into the distant past. We can find more recent stories as well of priceless artifacts being hidden away during the chaos of war or whatever." Yeah, that's really interesting not that this is something you wrote about in the book but I'm curious if you've ever stumbled across or heard any rumors or legends any further about the Vatican vaults because

43:47 That is something I don't hear about too often, but they've got to have a trove. They are one of the oldest power centers in this round of recorded history and I'm so curious what they might have behind the veil there. be a book all of its own and certainly people have written books on this particular subject. The idea of the end of the Second World War, some sort of collaboration between the Vatican and higher hierarchy of Nazis and so forth and giving them safe haven and storing Nazi gold and things like that. And now of course other stories are controversial and open to interpretation and many of them

44:28 in hard evidence, but it's one of these things where there is smoke and maybe there is some fire. And if there is smoke we should go looking for that fire." I've not personally sort of dug into that angle myself but you know certainly no shortage of accounts out there put it that way. Another personal favorite in this book was this piece from Babylonia to the Department of Defense, Alien Demons. Can you tell us about that a little bit? I wrote a book on the subject called Final Events and I started to look at it. I summarized it and also added some of the new revelations to the chapter in the book. Basically, for me it began in 2007 but for me the story itself began in 1991 when a Lincoln, Nebraska priest named Ray Bauschet was contacted by two Department of Defense physicists. Now, Ray Bauschet has an interesting background because he's

45:31 uh... state director for move on the mutual ufo network he still lives in lincoln nebraska but he's also and i think a priest and that seems to be the reason why these guys promised department defense program contacted him because she had knowledge of the background in euphology but also in religion And the story they told him in a personal meeting at a hotel in Lincoln, Nebraska in November 1991 was that the Pentagon was working on a program to contact what they had called NHE's non-human entities. And it wasn't like a close encounter of this third kind scenario you know we're going out to one location and there gonna come down. It wasn't like that! It was more like the remote viewing type programs of the 70s

46:16 where they would use mind power, if you like, psychic phenomena to try and call in these entities which they never saw. It was almost like an ethereal non-physical intelligence that could possibly take on physical form or almost like a holographic type situation. And supposedly the story was that they legitimately thought to begin with, they were dealing with extraterrestrials. Over time they noticed that or couldn't fail to see that something very sinister started to happen namely there was a lot of bad luck on the program people fell sick died there were some deaths everything seemed to go wrong it was like you know a canopy of darkness and doom had fallen on the project and they came to believe what they were dealing with

47:09 extraterrestrials but sort of manipulative literal demons from a literal hell that were masquerading as extraterrestrials and they came to believe that the entire UFO phenomenon was like a worldwide deception, you know? The idea of sort of Satan's minions getting their hands into us. by various ruses and guises over the years, like extraterrestrials, goblins, incubus succubus, fairies, strange creatures. They believed that they were all demonic in nature and changed their appearance throughout the years and centuries to manipulate you know human race and seduce them so to speak So essentially wanted Ray Boshay's advice on what they should do

47:56 and so right basically to what he felt that's it was some sort of satanic deceptions of a the basically can't confirmed but i thought they opened up more to him and said that uh... the program despite everything happened continued and i tried almost today what i guess the closest thing you could imagine talking fast impact literally depends again do it a day or with the devil to understand the technologies that the demons had he helped possession controlling people things like that uh... they wanted to use against the soviet you know is impossible demonic powers could stop somebody's heart if record you know could be assassinate presidential

48:41 people in Russia, you know the Kremlin. Could they wipe out the highest echelons of the KGB using demonic powers or even persuading these demonic entities to do it for them? But of course, you know, the story is being demons They hate us all, you know they couldn't care less where we're from. But it's a very strange story and the thing I specifically talk about in the chapter is how this particular group spent massive amounts of time pouring over old manuscripts and books pamphlets and documents, you know going back centuries that dealt with demonology and the history of folklore of demonology and beliefs and myths. Everything from as they saw it the reality of demonology through to just myth and legend but they sort of ate it all up so to speak So a fascinating but also creepy story about very deeply buried highly classified program in the pentagon

49:41 was studying demonology as a means to try and turn it into a weapon, and harness it and use it. And funnily enough there's actually a new movie out right now called the Atticus Institute which actually aside from the UFO angle covers pretty much the same story of... It's set in the 70s. It's like one of these found footage type movies like a Blair Witch type thing. It's pretty good one and it deals with like a Pentagon group, DOD group that focuses on a woman who is possessed by a demon and they try to talk to the demon do a deal with it and you know trying harness their powers against the Soviets. And its not some big budget sci-fi thing actually works well because he's got very low budget

50:28 claustrophobic type of thing set in a couple of just you know two or three rooms the entire movie but it works pretty well. That's cool yeah The part of that piece that I really did think was the most interesting was some of the research they were looking into from these demon researchers in 3rd and 4th century. They were talking about the plot of the succubi to enslave human souls, and that is fascinating! I wouldn't come to the conclusion it's literal demons from a literal hell because that isn't my paradigm but... It does remind me of the archons of Gnosticism, the mind parasites. And I think there's some real parallels there of a multi-dimensional entity trying to run humanity

51:10 No, I actually agree with you. You make a very good point because I share pretty much an identical viewpoint to what you just said. When people ask me well, you've written about all this do you think the whole UFO phenomenon is demonic? That things are demons? I say no because the reason being that the term demon for most people sort of brings forth several images. One is, you know the simplistic idea of the imagery of a devil horns forked tail fiery pits and flames all that kind of thing but it also creates imagery of sort of demonic possession and spinning heads and puking green pee you know soup or whatever but if you avoid using

52:00 which creates archetypal imagery that people have through pop culture, etc. I do believe that there's a very good chance that the UFO phenomenon isn't extraterrestrial but could far more likely be sorry interdimensional you know coexisting with us it's about the ralph that can cross paths without us and i actually do think there is good evidence from a lot of the cases but what are these entities are they actually don't like us at all their highly manipulative you know people john keel warned about the dangers of doubling all this and how he often comes back in these paper in the fight so to speak

52:41 So do I believe the phenomenon could be deceptive, multidimensional and malevolent to a point of hatred? Yes. I do so in that sense you know i kind of share the viewpoints of those who believe they're demons but I don't think they're literal demons coming from hell You know you could make an argument that if there is an afterlife that stories of heaven and hell may have been ancient attempts by the people those eras not conversed you know overly conversing science to try and explain what in reality could be multi-dimensions. You could make a case that heaven is another dimension,

53:23 I don't know, none of us really know. But if some essence of the body survives and goes on to some other realm maybe it's an essence that one day... of the mind or brain which will be explainable by science And maybe there'll be a science that can explain how it sort of translates from this existence to some other dimension beyond this Yeah So that would sorta tie in with all the ancient beliefs but he would put a scientific slant on it rather than a religious slant. And so in that sense, I do share some of the theories of the group where the major area I differ is that they literally viewed it from a religious perspective and would not even

54:07 you know, give any consideration to anything else. It was demons or nothing, you know? Right yeah I hate when someone will take that a story like that and use it as the justification that this whole big world is really just God versus the devil type of paradigm but i do think that is really interesting because recently we did explore the idea that a major manipulation by these entities might take place at the time of death and might involve the whole go towards the light meme because What better time to swoop in and do something if they want to do something with the human mind or the human soul, our consciousness. What better time than that moment of death to swoop in and manipulate?

54:49 Well, that's an interesting point because most abduction researchers at some point have got stories about these entities essentially manipulating or trying to steal human souls. In Communion for example Whitley Strebe famously said that the entities that he met said that we recycle souls, so that was their entire task. John Mack, the late John Mack, he talked about very same kind of things – the idea that somehow the human soul played more of a role in all of this than did sort of the genetic angle. You know, you also find less stories interestingly enough in the cases that came to Bud Hopkins he took a far more sort of nuts and bolts alien approach but certainly Mack

55:38 and uh... and we'll be straight enough a lot of their work is heavily based around manipulation on the moving of the soul and life after death and weird death by synchronicity to experience expires by people who've had production in cashman so i do think there's something to all that but problem is you know it's eats out Controversial it's so mysterious, but it's like for all of us. You're never really gonna know until Hopefully a long way down the line we'll find out you can't right well We don't find that I Find it fascinating because the idea that we are not The apex predator on the planet that we don't really have a handle on our shit is really intriguing to me It's like we're really ignorant infants if there's some kind of

56:28 being that actually knows what happens at the moment of death and can snatch you up at that point and thrust you into, who knows? Some type of reincarnation or funnel off your energy. Whatever they do obviously must be important if they care so much Well, you know this gets back to a lot of what John Keel said and also that Charles Ford said that there could be bigger powers at work. We've just not seen the big picture it's an unfortunate situation but he draws sort of the analogy with the cows in the field everything is blissful and fine until they get taken off

57:06 to the slaughterhouse. You know, most people even those who eat meat don't really want to know what goes on in a slaughterhouse but you know they eat meat there's uh and it means to an end and the herd is created to fulfill the needs of those...the top dog basically you know Well, maybe we don't get to see the top dog until we die. And maybe it is the soul or some sort of energy... The closest analogy I can think of would be the sort of scenario in The Matrix, particularly in the first Matrix movie which sort of spells it all out you know? We live in or we think we're living in this one particular world

57:45 Essentially it's like a dream world and when we wake up, if you wake up, you find your in these pods which essentially are designed to take the electricity from the human body, natural electricity of the human body and turn it into like the equivalent of battery for all these machines that now run the planet. Maybe it's something like that, but it is impossible for us in this form – you know a physical bodily form – to see the bigger picture. It's only when you exit that form that you're exposed to it and maybe then it's like oh no! That's when you get loaded aboard that truck and go to the slaughterhouse or whatever I mean…

58:25 I wouldn't want to give people nightmares, which actually a lot of people who read when I wrote that book and also the material paraphrased in what a paraphrase but summarized in this book. A lot of people got really worried who sent me emails were extremely worried by that scenario that we're heard and that we somehow could be used after death. That was the one thing I found more than anything else with I won't say just what we're frightened about, you know it was sort of played on the mind a lot. I could tell that from the emails and messages I got. Yeah...I mean I love the idea and it can be concerning too but I mean what can you do? You might just enjoy the grazing for a few decades and then whatever happens happens but that's also why I'm so interested in psychedelics and there's a subtext to

59:20 Zen culture and new age culture where they talk about how important it is to do the work, to raise your consciousness, to meditate. And maybe that is to prepare yourself for that moment so that you are less likely, less susceptible to being tricked if you have experience in outer body experience Yeah, well I mean it's interesting that because Whitley Strieber said...I forget if it was in community or not but he'd been told by military personnel that the ability of these things to use us and manipulate us and control us was based on the extent to which we believed in them. And the less we believed in them, the less power they had so it's almost as like somehow denying

1:00:04 lessons, their ability to affect us. And that might tie in with religious beliefs that if you're a strong believer in God everything's going to be cool! It's actually kind of like a similar parallel – if you're not a believer they have a better chance at getting their claws into you. That might explain the old legends where if you're not a believer you get a burning hellfire But I mean, when you talk about psychedelics a lot of really good research has been done into how things like for example DMT. A lot of researchers and skeptic will say well DMT just provokes graphic hallucinations in the mind even if it does so many of those hallucinations are

1:00:50 near identical in the sense that people feel or they see something coming through from the veil, very often small entities. There's a degree of communication even if it's sort of couched in cryptic words and symbolism but it's almost like entering an altered state is like retuning a radio you know? You're constantly on one channel until you decide to move the dial Maybe it's a similar thing that psychedelics allow us to move a dial in the mind. No, not literally obviously but you know what I mean and To open a doorway now there's a really good book I don't if you've seen it and I recommend you get on the show It's a really good books just come out called a Trojan faced by Joshua Cutchin no not familiar

1:01:35 Oh, it's a really good book just published by Anomalous Books about a month ago and it deals with the entire book. It is called The Trojan Feast because it deals with all the stories or interactions between people who claim to have met aliens and sort of magical entities where there's a food factor where you know the entities provide us food or they request food It's clear, I won't give the entire plot away. But it is a non-fiction book I should stress but it talks about how maybe these entities construct almost like a holographic type of imagery where the communal sharing of food

1:02:15 is actually like an image designed to put us at ease and allow us to try have some understanding, connection and relationship with these things which are so far so literally alien that they paid a manifested in normal fashion we wouldn't comprehend them so they try and porter cities and show it give us something to relate to uh... joshua talks about how that might explain a lot of the absurdities about people in abduction cases you call contact he cases you have been given plates of food which sounds ridiculous you know they come up with whitewater play deferred if you look at his face

1:02:56 gives a really good convincing argument as to how and why. These might be sort of hallucinations projected into the mind, as I said, to try and ease what would be just too mind-blowing shocking experience that we could not understand they have to find a middle ground something we can relate to and sort of feasting together at communal meeting is something that we can relate to if you like Wow, man. Yeah that is really interesting I'm definitely gonna have to look that up This has been really awesome, about out of time. I mean...I got to page two of my six pages of questions for you as you know you have the book split up into ancient aliens and then a conspiracy section and i just totally avoided the conspiracy section maybe a few months down the road I can pick up my notes again and we can tackle some other more practical and more modern human-based things that you have in there Yeah no problem at all

1:03:55 Awesome man, well I definitely loved it. It's always great to get to talk to you on and such a variety of things too and I guess remind people where they can keep up with you in anything else she got going on before we call it in Yes, sure. I have a blog called World of Whatever so you just Google Nick Redfern World of Whatever or people can look me up on Facebook on Twitter and I've got an Amazon page as well People want to contact me if they've got questions if they want any advice always happy to try and help If they wan't steering in particular directions or update it You know happy to do that Or if they just wanna chat you know I'm always around to do that

1:04:35 Awesome. Well, great deal man again many thanks I'm sure we'll talk again before too long but until then take care of yourself man Thanks Greg, you too. See ya later." Boom goes the dynamite people! I hope you liked it Nick is always great to talk to he remembers so much of what he writes which not everyone does but i thought that these things were worth a look when you examine biblical stories and you don't take them at face value i guess you either just dismiss them outright as nonsense read them as a coded message or veil gematria or astrological messages or even channelings as it has been pointed out before Or you could look at this E.T manipulation angle, which I think makes some sense and thankfully we were able to get away from the same old ancient alien topics and talk about it in a little bit different way At least...I thought so So you can look at some of the data like the extra long lifespans that are written about And say maybe they lived a long time because these characters are actually symbols for celestial bodies or timekeeping was different or they had some type of life extension? Or they weren't human

1:05:38 Or it means nothing. You can't rule that out, that it means nothing and oh so silly we'd feel to learn that was the case But if you are in fact curious what tidings the Plus Show brings this time, we got into topics of ancient sound levitation technology, ancient circle stone monuments and the cryptid connection. Bigfoots connection to orbs Skinwalkers, tulpas a little chaos magic and the green children of wolf bit for good measure Interesting Fortean ideas And stories that don't have anything to do with impending doom That's what I was feeling like this week So thanks for sticking with me I'm going out of town today to visit some old friends. We're getting together in Denver, so i have the next THC already done and scheduled to go up at the end of the week but if you sign up for Plus Today you can listen to it right now! Oh happy days

1:06:27 Just go to thehighersidechatsplus.com Remember that the Plus shows are on their own dedicated website, totally separate from the free show People do forget that But thats it for me guys Keep your pimp hands strong Your head above water And break a leg out there I've done my part Now its your move underground entities and multidimensional manipulators of the religious masses You're fricking new Because you're my higher side

1:07:08 Watch out, I lie Can't stand running around Can't stay out in town Once you find me High-fives, no one afraid to do the job Yeah yeah yeah

1:08:49 I ain't gonna take none of your foolin' around And I can't stand no puttin' me down Yeah, yeah, yeah Spun you as you might

1:09:35 The high size value You're not afraid to do the time Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh