Nick Orton | Military Encounters With Cryptids, Time Glitches, & The Paranormal

00:00 These days, so many podcast hosts just riff through unprepared segments until they get to the next ad break for pills they know nothing about cheap razors and whatever else they can get a buck from. But The Hiresite Chats does it differently We succeed or fail on the quality of the content and your desire to hear more of it. So you're about to hear another free first hour episode that's here to prove that two-hour shows are worth subscribing for! Five shows a month for just $8

00:38 Members get a mobile friendly website, a decade of archives, a dedicated RSS feed for the best podcast apps and a lot deeper discussion that a single hour can allow for. Sponsor free with more for thee! Get a free seven day trial of THC Plus at TheHigherSideChats.com Enjoy In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed the nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times. From 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration we offer a fresh conversation.

01:32 These are the Hireside Chats. Happy days are here again, Hireside Chatters from sunny San Diego! I'm Greg Carlwood and while almost everybody knows a guy who knows a guy who has seen or experienced something unexplainable... So many of us live our lives tightly packed into the smart city centers, spend our days overworked in some cubicle office or warehouse. And even when we can catch a break we rarely look up from the never ending scroll of Reddit and Instagram while counting down the hours until we do it all again. So is it any wonder that we have so many naysayers disbelievers and critics of the paranormal when we don't really give ourselves the opportunity to experience much outside of our daily routines?

02:13 Well, when you consider the lives of those enlisted in the military and what that service entails they start to seem like a pretty prime group to have a wide range out-of-the box strange and otherworldly encounters compared to the rest of us. They are regularly sent out into remote areas for long periods of time. They're trained and equipped with detection technology that can see more of the electromagnetic spectrum or oftentimes just better than the naked eye, from night vision to infrared and thermal, and they're constantly observing their surroundings So it only makes sense that today's guest Nick Orton, an active duty serviceman himself started collecting personal testimonies from others in the force and made an Instagram account dedicated to sharing them called Tales From The Grid Square.

02:56 And wouldn't you know it, the stories came piling in and the account blew up to the point that Nick has just released a book by the same title. That's a collection of over 230 accounts of the paranormal from the eyes of soldiers sailors airmen and marines who have tales of terrifying war zone weirdness and unsettling experiences in the field with a wide range of things including ghosts shadow people UFOs Sasquatch skinwalkers dog men and more It's a fascinating subset of stories from folks in unique positions and I salute Nick for putting it all together and opening the space to get these stories out. So let's bring him in, the high strangeness account collecting serviceman an paranormal tale teller Nick welcome to The Higher Side! Awesome thank you for having me today

03:41 You got it, man. Thanks for doing this! I think you have a really nice niche carved out for yourself here but tell us how this became your thing? I understand it started with experiences of your own right? Yeah so I have to say the duty I always say whenever I go on a podcast, bear with me real quick...I have to say this unfortunately. Disclaimers disclaimers yes because I wish people had more common sense, but there are people that think I'm some government leaker or like... People, schizos that think like I am a false flag. You would not believe what people have accused me of. You're a spook Nick! I know right? I glow in the dark So I have to say that anything I talk about is not reflective of any official stance at the DoD armed forces Nothing is an official statement by the DoD Armed Forces

04:37 Every view that is expressed in my book or myself on my page, right here are just purely like opinions of myself and not related to anything of the DoD or the armed services. And just for your viewers listeners to understand there is no really way for me to 100% verify these stories so everything I post though is something that I've tried to do with minimum due diligence I can and so everything I posted and everything I put in the book I believe to be factual Fair enough. Alright, so now getting into it I always have to say that because i literally had somebody like accuse me one time of leaking government information and I'm just like no no it's not... It doesn't really work like that man sorry! I totally understand So I've always had interest in paranormal topics right? Ever since I was a young kid I think one of the biggest mistakes my parents made was letting me buy the book Communion

05:35 I don't know if you're familiar with that one. Oh, Whitley Streber? Yes! Previous guest. I was like in a thrift store one day in Southern California and I just saw it like oh this cool looking book cover when I was eight years old or something. I picked it up and just read it because at that age I'd just write anything I can get my hands on and then I was hooked after like whoa this is kind of weird like I want to learn more and I had a series of books as a kid-I wish I still had them-that kinda talked about a lot of paranormal subjects that are more mainstream now, like Giants and Bigfoot and UFO which I guess you could argue those have always been mainstream within their own communities. So anyways fast forward, I'm in the service, I'm in the military...I still had these interests in this stuff And basically I had some experiences that kind of made me start to reconsider some stuff That being as we mentioned at the beginning

06:32 we in society will see stuff that happens. And so I don't use paranormal a lot, I prefer like not normal or just weird because what is really paranormal other than something that occurs that is not normal within your scope of understanding? And it's just a little bit more inviting for people who hear not normal then paranormal because you know the regular world you don't want people to think you're crazy Or maybe you do, maybe that's your thing the military world, if people think you're not 100% there it could affect your career. It could affect people's trust in you and it could affect ultimately how you do your job. A lot of times one thing I've talked to people about that may or may not know when you hear accounts like oh yeah my sergeant told me don't ever talk about this again that's really not people trying to cover stuff up in my opinion that's like people looking out for others hey

07:31 don't let anyone hear you talk about this because they'll think you're crazy. You know, you won't be able to progress if people think you're crazy." So basically there are people that talk about this stuff and it's during like the times when no one else is listening if that makes sense so like late at night on staff duty or like on CQ which is like a 24-hour duty you're bored and you start talking about stuff where you're like out in the field, you're tired. You're bored and then inevitably somebody has a spooky story or like the smoke pits or something like that and so I always thought all these stories that are whispered in hush tones when no one else is listening how many people are holding on to stuff like that? And based on some experiences I had talking to friends of mine who have similar shared experiences

08:29 It really kind of got my brain thinking like, okay there's something here. People are seeing stuff and maybe they just want to hear their story told so how could I do that? And i chose Instagram because in my opinion Instagram has been the easier social media to manage and grow. I don't like Twitter...I really don't know how to use it I abhor Reddit. So if you're a reddit moderator, you need to not be a reddit moderator anymore No seriously i've been banned from like several subreddits for just simply posting one thing Yeah, I believe it because I didn't read the six pages of rules right? Like I don't got time to read all that sorry guys but instagram I settled on that because there's like established military meme niche communities

09:16 So I started there and several of them helped me kind of build the page, get it going like building momentum for it. And once that started, it really just took off. I think I'm up to...I just checked this morning. I am up to 22K followers which I mean like for other pages because thats nothing but for me thats in about a little over year time and pretty impressive growth in my opinion. Yeah it is! I posted 872 posts I haven't had an exact breakdown, but I do think it comes out to of those posts probably around 800 stories itself. And let me look at my notes because I do everything from my phone because I'm very much on a budget right now. I still have about 154 stories still to post and I have like at least 20 in my inbox to transfer over

10:15 Damn, I love it and you know the capacity of Madison Square Garden is twenty thousand so your dressing quite a crowd. And just to give the listeners an overview of the range of experiences that people have come to you with do notice any patterns or commonalities or paranormal categories that seem to stick out from this ever growing data set oh yeah its funny how you start picking up on the consistency of experience, I guess i'll call it that. How somebody sends a story like say they're stationed at Pearl Harbor right and if your viewers didn't know there's a famous ghost on Pearl Harbor that haunts the Arizona Memorial and one person sends a story and it's like I've seen this ghost here's the story I post it right? And then in the comment section you see people that corroborate seeing the same thing and then it starts tying

11:15 even further, you look at other places and other bases and other experiences people have had overseas. And I really wish i had a pushpin but it would take me forever like a map and push pin by color different types of experiences so you could see what's going on there are some bases that have substantially higher amount of stories than others Fort Polk being one of them Okinawa, Japan which is not surprising because that has always been known as one of the most haunted postings in the US military. Hmm Yeah this Fort Polk gets a decent section in the book and the term box switch comes up What's the deal there? Is that just some legend some catch-all term for the general weirdness that goes on there Yes So it depends who you talk to and I have a good breakdown of this too on Wes Gramer's Dash Watch Chronicles

12:09 So the box, which of Fort Polk right? So if your viewers that don't know so for folk is in Louisiana. Little nowhere like any good army base in just a big wide open area off trees and swamps and fields right? And so what four pokes significant to the military is in addition to having like active duty presence there. There is a massive massive training area known as JRTC joint readiness Training Center And this is all like open source, none of this is classified. So don't worry I'm not stealing those secrets! So it's basically the army has these places called CTCS so they're basically command mission training centers whatever like that...so they're basically like places where the army goes and plays war if that makes sense? So they go through the whole motion of like deployment prepping for deployment deploying to these places settling in setting the stage preparing for the battle then

13:07 to these areas and go fight a fake war against us, more or less. Like we have supplied our own opposing force. Geronimo known as the G-man and there's different units like that at different places. There's three main big ones one of them is in Fort Polk so all the light infantry brigade divisions of the army send their people there to go through like 30 to 45 days it was just absolute nightmare because it is anyways though getting back on track Fort Polk underground legend is something called the box witch, right? And so the box refers to The training area like where this scenario takes place and we're talking like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of acres of forests and Swamps and you know gullies and ferns. It's a pretty thick terrain. It's pretty tough terrain So within this box it depends who you talk to

14:05 The Boxwich is either an all-encompassing term for all the weird stuff that happens in there, because it is a weird place. So anything we're talking from lights, shadow people, ghosts voices... People that show up and disappear on MVGs, Sasquatch dogman stories UFO's anything right? And that's like known as like oh you got visited by the boxwiches the box witch struck again. And there's other legends going even deeper into that, like the bog walkers or the gully monsters from further back into the 80s. Or a box which is known as a singular entity and it is supposedly the ghost of a literal witch that lived in the training area. So most army bases that were set up people lived in these places and the army would typically buy people out and people would move over some places they still live on federal land

14:59 in areas you don't train. But anyways, this one woman apparently lived out there and she was a known witch of the area whatever qualifies as a witch in those times and she refused to move eventually she did pass away at old age and then the family sold the land her surviving family and supposedly she haunts it now is a literal ghost entity of some type very strange And so like the legend goes for that side, you'll see a woman at night. You'll see a woman walk around in the woods. The stereotypical women and white kind of scenario things will go missing from your gear so she'll always take one of a pair So like if you have two boots, she'll take one boot or one glove People claim it's not just people stealing each other stuff out in the field but It's the box which come to mess with you

15:48 So it's interesting, but like you said I have a whole chapter in my book devoted to stories to Fort Polk and. And I don't think I even posted all of them. Those are just in my opinion, like some of the most recent better ones Right on and I think i remember from your previous interviews that your experiences were at Fort Polk. Yeah! And just to give the quick summary you were in a tent at night and pine cones started being thrown at your tent from the edge of the woods or just, I guess you don't really know where from the darkness? From the darkness. So...and then you're like hey this is like kind of what Sasquatch does in these reports

16:26 And other people experience that too and i think in another instance you also saw orbs of light flying around another common thing that happens. Those are interesting stories for sure the thing that really gets me is, giants. A lot of people know the now famous Kandahar giant story where a group of soldiers in Afghanistan supposedly were sent out to look for another group of soldiers that went missing, and they encountered this 12-15 foot redheaded six digit double road of teeth humanoid that emerged from a cave and attacked them

17:02 They killed it and the body was supposedly airlifted back to the squad's base by a helicopter and a net, and from there loaded onto an aircraft and taken away never to be seen again. Maybe sent to the Smithsonian basement who knows? But apparently the people involved had to sign NDAs and this story got out on coast-to-coast went viral lot of people like it well as well known as that story is you have one in the book that also seems to be a giant called the giant of kuna where i was serving in the area with thermal goggles i believe. He saw something out there and then it stood up and he's like this is at least twelve foot tall thing, and it freaked him out later you heard the giant of canada our story and thought back to his time in afghanistan and if you think stuck out as strange and i like this part i had to copy those down where he says

17:55 For instance, the creature was described as having fire orange hair and it reminded me of a tradition the locals in the area of my sighting would do. They would dye their hair a bright orange color and would even dye goats the same color! They never gave an explanation why... It seemed like every once in awhile they would do this then all of sudden all the orange dyed goats would be gone And the local's hair would no longer be dyed orange I assumed it was a cultural thing, but now it makes me wonder if it was some kind of gesture to the creature or the goats were sacrificed. And man, I like that! It really makes me think of the whole motif in the original King Kong where the locals definitely seem to offer up things to the local beast. But that's pretty wild man. That's one of my favorites in the book. Oh yeah no, that's definitely one of my favorite stories because...it's funny

18:46 I tried to do some research into that and i really couldn't find a lot on the tradition. So there is some Islamic and Muslim traditions where they do dye their hair certain colors, and dye goats certain colors for different holidays and periods in the Islamic faith but I couldn't really find any of that orange. I spoke to a gentleman yesterday who served in the military who put up an interesting story comparison to that. So apparently in the Quran Muhammad is described in some instances as a giant man with fiery red hair, like he was a redhead. So apparently when this gentleman went deployed to Afghanistan you would encounter Afghanis who would dye their hair orange to kind of emulate the Prophet Muhammad or alternatively if they had like a red head or ginger

19:41 in their unit, the Afghanis and he said also in Iraq as well and some rural places they would ask are you Muslim? They would ask him if he was from the bloodline of the Prophet Muhammad because Muhammad was depicted with red hair. And so now that got me thinking like that opens up a whole can of worms too of you know the Genesis 6 conspiracy theory is like definitely a rabbit hole you can dive into It is it isn't so often we hear stories of giant skeletons but it's pretty rare to hear stories of living giants but a couple of these stories do seem to be from Afghanistan and that whole region.

20:20 And it got me thinking, wouldn't it be interesting if a subtext of the entire war, a subtext of sending troops to Afghanistan at all was really to put them in this situation? To snuff out one of these living giants because the elite do seem to have an interest in these sorts of things without really advertising that. And we've speculated with other guests about the Baghdad Museum, that it was raided right away to get some of these antiquities so they could try to piece back this deep history with whatever relics are available. I mean you don't think it was because Saddam had a stargate? I have heard that as well! That's a level 11 let's turn up the dial maybe Saddam had a stargate. I can believe it. Saddam had a lot of stuff going on

21:07 But yeah, no. The Giants is always something super interesting that I'm looking into. Actually a couple more stories that I've received and I think I've only scratched the surface...I think a lot more people in Afghanistan have seen things that could be described as giant and something I learned so I never deployed to Afghanistan. I've never fought in the war but even talking to soldiers and even people that had lived in Afghanistan you know they had left during the war It's an extremely rural place, a good place to kind of understand. Some of these places are so remote they don't understand the rest of the world. They don't believe in it if that makes sense? A good episode to listen to that kinda says this is... So Sasquatch Chronicles I believe on 778, I think on 775 or 774 there was another gentleman who he fought in like the very beginning of the war and we moved into Afghanistan

22:03 And he tells a story about how he went to a village in Afghanistan. I won't spoil too much because he does a much better job of describing everything, but this place is so remote they thought the ocean was a myth. Holy shit! Right? They're so remote they don't have any technology or any idea –or very basic idea– what it is when they see a plane flying overhead and call it an X. because they have no other words to describe it. They didn't understand what was, and that's how rural some places are in Afghanistan. There are places in Afghanistan that even those people—those rural Afghanis who live very close to the earth don't even go to because they can't reach these mountains and false peaks and valleys. I want to get into more and do a lot more research but

22:53 Afghanistan, Iraq and the Islamic faith have some very interesting legends of the paranormal when it comes to like the jinn. I think there's a whole realm of paranormal topics to discuss that have not even been scratched the surface because of the war and kind of the negativity now that rightfully so surrounds some of that area or unrightfully so as well One day I hope that I can kind of like dive into that and learn more because there's some truly, truly fascinating stuff that I've heard. Yes, I agree with you and because your book is so varied and the stories are so vast and this is really cruising along we're 20 minutes in already give us a story that you find to be a favorite that is interesting for maybe a different category other than giants

23:46 Okay, I'm just gonna turn a page in here because there's a lot of good ones in the book Yeah And I'll pick some off my page too. So your listeners wanna want to get like a good variety They're in for a treat so you know what? I'm just gonna go skip to one of my favorite stories So this gentleman is probably one of the most unique gentlemen I've ever spoken with He was in the Russian army because he's from Russia when he turned 18 Most men get conscripted right away for a quick term. So he was conscripted and basically sent to war right away and he said that he had fought by the time he had left the Russia and came through United States and immigrated over. He's like, I have been in sick combat zones you know? I've fought in several battles and been shot at and blown up before like the age of 30. And awesome guy to speak with if you want to hear more stories about him and his war stories your listeners should definitely check out Battles & Beers on Instagram. He also has a book called

24:48 what the war did to us, where he basically I copied him. Kind of like his idea of put the stories that he collected on his website in printed form to preserve them because ultimately this is for your listeners this whole goal in my project is to in my own really weird way give veterans a way to voice their stories they otherwise wouldn't tell Yeah, it's cathartic to get those stories out rather than hold them tight to the chest. Yeah and I found that most people just want to tell their story and so everything on my page is anonymous. I don't do any names or anything like that unless specifically requested too. It's a way for people to get stuff like hey get it off your chest! Tell me the story all posted so you can see there are other people and maybe there IS an answer for what you saw? Maybe there is a reasonable explanation, mistaken identity whatever... let's find out

25:47 and you can feel at ease, and you can feel heard. Not have to deal with any repercussion of someone pointing at you being like weirdo crazy or anything like that. Agreed! So sorry got sidetracked there but this gentleman he sent in his story and this is one of the more fascinating ones for me so part of his conscription he was in the VDV which is the Russian Perisher crews And this was when he was doing a training exercise in Mongolia with the Mongolian and Kazakhstan army. Okay, I was pretty much walking around the desert for months and months wondering when i was going to die of heat stroke there was a point where our groups were walking around these pumice sandstone hills if you don't know pumice is very porous stone natural big holes coming through and after time these holes get big enough to fit a small man or large dog through

26:37 I was on night watch behind a Kord machine gun, which is... A Kord machine gun is just the Russian equivalent. Very big Russian equivalent of like the American 50 caliber machine gun We had these giant thermals and IR infrared sights attached to them. I was scanning the terrain and more or less sleeping when I see what appears to be a thermal image resembling one of those inflatable tube men You know? The kind that you see at used car dealerships in the US It's about 100 meters out on the slope of a hill. I blink and close my eyes, when i open them it is still there and see this thing moving side to side like one of those inflatable tube men but with no arms! I turn on the floodlight attached to the machine gun and saw for split second this massive fucking caterpillar its about the size of horse. Its poking out from these large holes in the pumice and slinks back down after I shine light on it. I remember vivid detail what that thing looked like. It was the same amber color as cockroach and counted 8 limbs from what I saw

27:37 I could only guess that it was maybe a quarter of the full length of this thing sticking out of the hole. Its face looked exactly like a wood grub. I shot it in legit surprise when I hear something behind me, and turn around as if there's a Kazakh soldier watching me. He promptly explained that he had seen a Mongolian death worm. It was like something you always see out there." To be honest, I have no explanation for what it could have been otherwise. So i like that story because like Mongolian death worm you hear is one of those goofy there's no way this thing could exist and that guy was like no that's what I saw a Mongolian Death Worm Yes, I love that one as well. As soon as you said Russian soldier, I knew it was coming and man, you jumped right into the deep end of the pool with one of the most unique stories in the book and when you spoke about how remote some of these areas can be who knows what's really out there? Yeah, who really knows? I mean they're discovering stuff all day. You know, I'm a big Sasquatch believer. I think that something Bigfoot exists right like

28:40 Like they thought gorillas were a myth too. Well, Highland gorilla was a myth! No there's no apes up there. There are no monkeys in those mountains and lower behold there is these elusive apes that don't like people who are incredibly hard to find and eventually found one day. You know another one of my favorite types of stories that in the book and I actually have uh...one book marked here Is stories of people just riding along in a humvee or some kind of vehicle covered at night, in remote area and something big just jumps onto the vehicle like they can tell from the inside that something jumped on to the outside. And then as soon as it came, it leaves and there's no real sighting of it. Here is an example on page 24 you have one called Something Big

29:32 Guard shift, 0100. Myself and another private staring into the dark abyss of the Kunar River Valley below The glow of NVGs reflecting on our eye is our only light Our shack is 8x8 made of plywood barely strong enough to hold the anti-mortar single sandbag layer on the roof Metallica quietly plays in the speaker I guess this is just a little shack not necessarily something moving but he says Many sightings of large creatures had happened in the mountains, some even taller than us. Always through thermals and always far far away and blurry Tonight was different Something big jumped on the side of our guard shack And latched on with its claws It climbed to our roof as a large cat would Right up a vertical face There was some creaking from the added weight it jumped down into darkness and was not seen again Now that could be an animal

30:27 But it definitely is creepy. Yeah, and so like I did some research there are like indigenous big cats through Afghanistan They're like snow leopards also like extremely rare and live in the mountains going back to Afghanistan There's other animals there too like hyenas and stuff like that And so I try to help people that submit what do you think? Do you think he saw this and they were like no if that's not what I saw and I liked that a lot of these like the gentleman who sent this story There had been sightings of other creatures and things that were bigger than us. And I just elaborated on that after I asked, so...I do think there was a lot of stuff but it's like- A quote that I liked that I picked up was nothing beats the tear in the moment you pass off and there is guys out in Afghanistan and Iraq for your viewers

31:21 I know there's this, oh somebody told them to be quiet they signed NDAs. It's honestly as simple as hey that's really weird but i really gotta focus on watching this area so somebody doesn't shoot at us and like they see something weird and then they're snapped back into like doing their job and doing their focus and then it's only later that it comes back like wow that was actually really weird Yeah, and the ones that are about some kind of creature are the ones that probably intrigue me most I have another one here. I took a note about I just wrote strange beast multiple witnesses must read It's called the border You know I read this book in a couple of days And they all kind of bleed together but some definitely stuck out and I had to write them down But this one says

32:06 Currently assigned to the border mission where i have seen what i believe to be a skinwalker it was night with perfect illumination and we were under, nvg is i guess night vision goggles the military terms you know sometimes i gotta look these things up yes but. My team and i first cited what appeared to be a black cat sixty meters from our position it was walking away from us and Being of no immediate concern, we ignored it. It's about 100 meters away when we go back to scanning our sectors My buddy is scanning behind me when he tells me dude this cat grew I turn and shit you not it was a hog! I'd say its about 50 or 80 pounds max so decent size Maybe it scared away the cat but now there was a hog where we last saw the cat It stays away from us not making any noise just rooting around

32:55 So we were joking around about dropping it when it starts walking in circle patterns slowly making its way towards us. We decide to approach it, It turns as we come around and walks a straight line away from us. We get a good look at the tracks which match that of a hog but the tracks were super deep! The ground is solid dirt and these are about three-and-a-half inches deep so thats strange We chamber rounds and are ready for anything when it stops about 25 meters in front of us in the shadow of a tree. We slow our walk and take another few steps towards it at this point we feel something off, kind of a bad vibe. We stop using night vision goggles and white light it. It stands up on its hind legs and stands at my height! It was about six feet tall when standing up eyes level with mine didn't make a sound we run

33:46 But when we look back, it's vanished. We book it back to the Humvees and climb on top When we returned our guys were confused and asked what had happened They didn't believe us but we warned at the next ship to keep their eyes open My driver and i considered emptying our mags into it but we're on the border and wouldn't want to deal with the paperwork in questioning for firing rounds at something barely anyone believes then, we said the lord's prayer and for the rest of the shift sat on top of the humvees first time i've been scared while. I mean that's pretty wild man and it's like two different animals almost sounds like a shape shifting thing and then when it's really exposed with a headlight or you know put under a spotlight. It really erupts into a six foot tall thing and it scared multiple people there's not just one guy here right so the border mission whatever your stance is on it right lot of people there, see some weird stuff just talking before the order mission

34:49 The Rio Grande River and the border with Mexico in the United States is some interesting kind of spooky territory. There's a lot of legends down there, like La Llorona things people see in the desert monsters shadow people Chupacabra? Chupacabra! There's some freaky stuff down there but yeah this guy he sent it into me and it was like you know one of those most times I add to blue I have a story for you this is that He was like, I believe whatever I saw wasn't just a regular cat or a boar. It was a skinwalker which is also funny in itself you know the skinwalkers are kind of like a meme at this point honestly if you listen to all these stories about skinwalkers they don't really fit the MO of what is defined in the Navajo culture as a skinwalker we hear all these scary stories about people seeing weird animals and shapeshifter things right? And I always think

35:47 Maybe they're not skinwalkers, maybe we just refer to them as skinwalkers. And it's really something else some shape-shifting thing out there that is like stalking humans hunting humans right? I was on the Uncomfortable podcast and we brought up this point together think about the woman in white story how many times have you heard of a story about a woman in white? A good amount! Good amount right how many other stories are like if you see the woman in the white in the lake don't go near her she'll lead you to your doom If you see the woman in white, walk away because something bad will happen to you. Right? Or you'll disappear. Right like a siren Yeah What if that's not a ghost? What if there is a shape-shifting thing out there that is hunting humans right? I thought that was kind of an interesting thing to put up

36:38 The missing 401 cases always fascinate me, right? Conditions where the earth creates plasmas and these plasma is seem to be able to be vessels for consciousness the same way human body could be, and they seemed a shape shift in guys like john keel and carl young who studied these paranormal experiences that say there's some interplay between the experience sir. And what's going on in their subconscious and what they expect to see that's why some people see marion apparitions or they see a cross or whatever there. Kind of religious predispositions might be they see those things are if they're into sci-fi they might see the little green men authoring two irish folklore they might see fairies,

37:32 And whatever they're seeing it's a plasma that can shape shift into something based on. Reading the mind of the observer or something like that and its very strange but I totally believe that might be what behind missing 411 stuff and just why sightings are so varied But it's really tough to say. I mean, you've seen orbs in the sky if someone told you that was a sentient floating plasma...I mean what would you say? Did it seem like that? Was it at a very far distance or what? Somebody told me there is sentient floating plasma that can shape-shift into whatever my mind is thinking about

38:13 I don't necessarily count that as like, oh yeah Bigfoot or whatever doesn't exist. That in itself is you know very weird right and if it's something that's more advanced than us or smarter than us it can run circles around our logic and we're still denying that it even exists and it's out there hunting people in the national parks Yeah I don't know It's interesting concept to think about um You know I spoke with another gentleman on a podcast this goes into like one of my favorite points to make you know a lot of people just hand-weighted stuff is like science can explain it yeah sure science can explain it but that inevitably doesn't mean it's freaking weird you know. Like that example right there, everything people are seeing is just empty balls of plasma that haunt people and like that supposed to make it all better and explain things away which goes to my favorite point another story I just spoke with the gentleman when we were talking about how there's this mind people have reported hearing voices in

39:14 what they attributed to being the ghost of the past. And so, the prevalent theory that a group of scientists came up with and the mine was what the minerals extracted were used for recording tapes in the very early stages of making tape recorders And so what had happened was the voices of people working in the mines and the noise of working in the mines had embedded itself into the minerals. Wow! When lightning would strike the mine, the electrical discharge of the lightning would cause these voices this recording in the rock to sound and that's how people were hearing voices

39:56 Right? And so like right then and there you have people like, see ghosts don't exist. So blah blah blah. Like you know, it's a natural explanation for everything. Yeah but you don't find it weird that the stone is literally holding on to the voices of the past in The Lightning as the thing playing it That's not like a, oh we figured it out kind of question. Like that is incredibly fascinating and amazing right? Yeah yeah it's not a ghost story but it doesn't mean there aren't other ghost stories and it itself is very interesting. Yeah you threw away the can of worms and opened up another one. One of my favorite things to say what are the implications of this? Let's think about this for a second

40:42 That goes to one of my more favorite things with how I view things, so Occam's razor. So there are probably natural explanations for what people are seeing and there is a lot of ones that are simple like misidentification or whatever. If you believe things 100%, I think it does a disservice to finding the answers. You kind of have to approach things with a little bit of skeptic lens and I consider myself a little bit of a skeptic when it comes to stuff but On the opposite side of that, Occam's razor. So Occam's razor is the simplest solution is usually the right answer. Right? People will use that as a simple solution and say it's fake or not real. Well no sometimes honestly the simplest answer is you don't know what it is. It's not normal

41:32 it's unexplained right now, right? And I think that scares a lot of people because even if there is the natural answer they kind of hand wave it as like oh it's fake. Right well instead of trying to find out because I think the thing that scares intellectuals and academics and people the most or you know so-called intellectuals the most is things that they can't explain right because that makes them uncomfortable Because now you have to accept you don't know everything. And when you accept, you don't know everything that's what people get really scared. It's true it's true but on the flip side of that You can't believe everything either that comes across your desk 100% without a skeptic lens because it does you a disservice because I will tell you

42:22 I've been down the rabbit hole of looking at some of these, like, I guess Tik Tok is a thing where a lot of normal stuff's on. Of like so-called military stories and I can tell you, I could listen to it in the story and I'm like this is all fake. This is fan fiction man. Like I'm sorry all the details are wrong. All the verbiage is wrong. These don't sound like soldiers talking or people talking very interesting because I don't trust, you know whenever there's an official Narrative going out about really anything but ufo's in particular sure let's call me way peas or whatever.

42:58 When there's stories in the New York Times and then CNN is covering it, and it involves senators. I'm like, I think you're trying to steer this in a certain direction that isn't necessarily just the genuine raw reality. And to hear you say that being experienced in the military, it's refreshing because I kind of have that same impression where I don't really trust the official word on that and some of these people seem like they may be playing a role of a whistleblower not necessarily a whistleblower. And you know what, there are decisions and stuff going on behind the scenes that are just above your name I do find it fascinating but they're coming out releasing like official statements on this stuff and so i think its either A aliens alien craft extraterrestrial crafts that are coming to this earth or whatever

43:51 or just something that is not man-made, let's just cap it at that. Not man made B, its tech from one of our adversaries that is being used against us which this is just my opinion if our foreign adversaries had tech like that to use against us they would be like throwing in our face In my opinion right because thats the arms race you know I think then the third one as I think could be US again just my opinion I think we do have technology that makes the science look like science fiction behind it. If you showed a man in the 1800s, a P-51 Mustang he would think that's fake there is no way that could be real and work. It's true. You know when you look at technology through the ages drones were being used in World War II

44:46 It was hilarious to think about. Yeah, I mean so if your take is that it's either aliens or humans? I mean it's hard to be wrong when you're covering the spread that wide true! I'm just giving you a hard time but yeah try to fit in a couple more stories into this first hour this one I gotta throw out there because I love underground stuff and caves and it comes up a little bit in the book Not a major thing but it is there so this one you mentioned okinawa is one of these hot beds and here we go to beach okinawa. My buddy and i were exploring this place near oto beach, it's on the southern tip of the island we saw this large cave open to the elements with essential pillar in the middle that wasn't much to see when in on the right side exited on the left

45:35 As we were leaving, I noticed a small opening into another cave. It was tight fit but we thought that we could make it through. I led the way shining my flashlight down the tunnel into this second cave We were still away from the exit when I noticed that it looked like someone had been living there at one point in time There were clothes beddings and small furniture in this cave We decided to leave. We were crawling towards the exit of the tunnel, towards this chamber when I heard something scurrying across the cave's floor in front of me! I shined my light towards the chamber again and saw a small humanoid figure run across the beam. I thought that my imagination was getting better so we kept going. Then it ran across my light beam AGAIN in the direction that it first ran from

46:21 I happened to shine my light towards this chamber again. I saw a small, humanoid crouching at the tunnel's exit in front of me It had long dark hair bright green eyes Long fingers with claws and teeth like they were filed down to a point We got the fuck out real quick we had a friend who wanted to see the cave so we returned When we looked for the entrance to this second chamber it was completely gone like it never existed And that is a great story not only for the weird little creature, but it's another thing I've heard sometimes in fairy folklore. That when you try to return to the place it isn't there or something about it has shifted as if the being realizes it was discovered and can somehow alter its environment. Yeah he's probably like what are you doing at my house? I have to move now

47:13 Yeah, that's a weird one. It defies category which are sometimes my favorite stories So I looked it up My research and looking up is like a quick browse to Wikipedia while I have a second in my life And so it kind of fits the description and the not mo but like how the kappa Is the word I'm getting at. The Kappa is like a Japanese legend of, and it's literally described as a literal looks like a frog human thing that lives in marching lakes caves on the beach And i'm pretty sure that's what he saw with the kappa But yeah no like the caves...I found that interesting It was probably like what are you doing in my house? I have to move now

48:03 Like I forgot to close the front door and this is what happened It's a wild one, and it's it's hard to find. I mean it seems like you did seek out some kind of mythological being that fits the description That's also kind of a funny thing about this is so many cultures do have these stories and they have names and descriptions for some being, and then you find us soldiers roaming around that territory in the encounter something similar there's a lot of cultures that have names for sasquatch is a lot of cultures that have names for certain ghosts are demons or energy that is in that space and then people stumble across it so

48:46 I don't know what's going on, but that should make anyone a little more curious and give credence to these stories being more than just made up off the top of someone's head. Because how could it fit the lore so closely? Right? I mean yeah people like they use myths to describe you know rectify with afterlife or whatever and i'm like no i don't think so i'm a big believer in faith and stuff like that and i think Yeah, yeah. We make up something as we go? Yes sure but I think a lot of the times like you said there's so much commonalities between culture why is it that every culture has a story about a flood where do you draw the line of oh they're just ripping off other religions and realize that you know the Navajo nation or indigenous nations in the United States have a flood story exactly like Noah's Ark

49:43 I mean, wow. Another Abraham. I don't think the Israelites made it to North America during the Exodus but you know? I think that there's a lot of commonalities and consistencies between stories across cultures and religions and people hand wave at like nothing but I sit there like well now its beyond coincidence Now you have all these different cultures so varied and different from each other that typically have contact with each other Having the same type of story and you don't find that fascinating something to think about. You know another thing it's a commonality in some of these stories especially the ones where it somebody who witnesses like a ghost soldier and they're not always in ghost form sometimes they seem very solid may wander into camp,

50:35 The witness will address them like hey what are you doing here who are you of course they say nothing that's another important point in the layers of why these military encounters or so interesting. These are very secured places no weird hog cat thing should be wandering and know, beast should be jumping on their shed and know person should be wondering into camp Without somebody at the gate stopping them this isn't a random place i've noticed that a lot of the people who do see ago soldier they will notice patches or insignia on the uniforms better either wrong just like a little bit off or even sometimes retired like things from previous conflict

51:26 And that's a curious detail that stuck out it comes up and maybe have a dozen or more cases. It's weird almost reminds me of the men in black stories where the people show up to investigate an experience and then they're just off like the last for, coffee, but then they won't know how to drink it. Just really strange stuff like they're mimicking human behavior and maybe these are just ghosts from a previous conflict but its weird that they have patches and insignia from the military that are either legit or not in current use or a little bit off. Yeah makes me believe its something that has no idea what its doing and so just being in your uniforms jacked up like thats the first thing people notice

52:15 I always found it funny if something is trying to mimic a soldier and then like walks into the base in the wrong uniform, nobody's going to notice that right away. And obviously he's not looking for any MCOs or sergeant majors because they'll get lit up right away. It's like the story you hear of North Koreans, how they catch North Korean saboteurs spies coming across the border is because a lot of times the clothing they wear is so horrendously outdated. It's not funny They come across the border in a modern area, they're wearing clothes that were popular and styles that were popular in the 80s. Yeah. Because they're just so little out of touch with this stuff. Wild! And before we totally close out this first hour give people one more story that you like that maybe is strange or out of the range of normality with The Ghost and stuff? Maybe something that seems like a little more solid... A Bigfoot, a Dogman, one of these kind of things

53:15 Ooh, so I'm gonna read one for you readers. It's from the book it's super super short but there's something that i like about this because it opens up the whole point of this book let me just flip to this from going back to good old Fort Polk get quite a bit of stories there and I think I'm only like scratching the surface of what's there So here we go Bog Walker The bog walker is real at JROTC At first glance I chalked it up to NVJ hallucinations Long-arm figures walking through five deep waters as if they are cruising to the 711. Nothing beats the terror that we pass off at the moment, everyone feels it but were all like nah man thats just Gman fucking with us But seeing is believing in hindsight anybody that knows knows and I like that one because i think that sums up The entire scope and theme of what im doing now there's a lot of that

54:18 Anyone that knows, knows because we've seen it. We just don't talk about it." That's my favorite one of this type of stories I get very quick, very snippet, very like give me just enough detail that I want to know more and then I never hear from them again or they don't want to elaborate on anymore because they're still in and people might be able to put the story together but to your listeners...I do think that in the military is unique because there's such a typical closed group anyway. There's a lot of stuff like all the acronyms people who are in the military may not understand, I don't understand them half the time i'm in the military and so I was hoping another goal of doing The Book on that Page was to help bridge that gap between the civilian world and the military world

55:07 through social media, which is kind of like the easiest way to do it and in a weird way paranormal because everybody likes a spooky story. Yeah yeah I think that's a great goal and you're accomplishing it well! I hope so and I hope it takes off a little bit more and I guess like you're right... I guess i'm humble to a fault. An audience of 20k is the size of Madison Square Garden, which that's pretty big. It is man! The internet can do wild things when you think about the amount of people you can fit into one physical location and then the amount of people you can reach online...I sometimes get nervous talking to my own audience because it's too fucking big

55:46 I didn't know what I was doing. I'm not trained for this and now, I am addressing quite a few people." But I would imagine that you're going to get even more stories from this audience and probably every time you do an interview, I'm sure they just kind of explode and that's a beautiful thing! Yeah, that's the goal is to spread the word and so like every build more followers because it increases my chance of getting a story. And I don't make any money off of having 22k followers. I guess I could but you know at this point it really not what I'm trying to do but everything travels by word-of-mouth So going on the podcast sharing the page following the page

56:28 that helps me build a pool of potential. And there's people that have followed my page from the very beginning, and are just now telling me their story because they feel comfortable enough that they're ready to do it or you know, they just said, I'm going to tell this story for you. So is definitely like one those projects only grows as the people who follow it and that's what makes it kind of cool is I get to talk to thousands of people at this point and had conversations. And it still kind of blows my mind, it's become most definitely become my hobby like outside of work besides being a dad and you know active duty military

57:08 It's definitely like taking over i have a play xbox and forever you know what it's productive. Well i think also when people feel like they're not alone that helps them to tell the story though you know i guess i read a couple dozen accounts of something that was like what i saw throw my hat in the ring and admit it, bring out of the reserves but man This was a lot of fun the whole range of paranormal experiences i think we touched on pretty much everything and i really enjoy these shows where we can just be rapid fire and give people wild stories obviously there's no way to vet them but they are fun to listen too, and it's all enough to make me very curious about how little we understand.

57:54 how much mystery is really left in the world. And so I assume you will be getting more stories after this and that's great, maybe volume two is coming out sooner than later but before I let you go remind people where they can find the Instagram page and how they can reach out to you if any military folks listening now have stories of their own? Yeah! So you could find me on Instagram right now my name is Tales from The Good Square on Instagram T-A-L-E-S underscore F-R-O-M underscore T-H-E underscore G-R-I-D S-Q-U-A-R-E. So tails, underscore from, underscore the, underscore grid square all one word. And I will obviously give people a link as well and make it easy. Oh no worries! And for the book if you want to search for the book and not wait for the link

58:50 The book is available on Amazon. So I wish had a cooler story why but if you search for the book right now in Amazon it's not gonna pop up no they're not censoring me but because i've done everything myself, I'm a one-man show self-published and edited done all the legwork for the book except from the cover excellent artists who I credit in the book So you need to search Tales from the Grid Square and then filter by all books. And then I should pop up or you just search directly from the Kindle store, and I should be right there. Awesome! Man, yes. It is an impressive feat for one person I really enjoyed all the stories having over 230 in one book it's a nice addition to the weird stuff shelf so thanks for everything you do and thanks for spending some time with me super interesting and keep it up man take care out there. Thank you very much for having me on this show I really enjoyed it

59:47 There we have it guys Nick Orton what a good show to have on deck for the 4th of July I actually had no idea was gonna work out that way. This is just the last interview I recorded before going off to Austin and I just wanted to make sure I had enough in case I ran into trouble on the road or something and then I started thinking about how well it meshed with The Holiday On Deck, and it's just a nice little happy accident Like when psychedelic Mormonism lined up with Easter. But Nick was having a little trouble with my preferred recording platform, so we had to use Skype and its quality is only gonna be so good

1:00:27 We had so many internet breakups too, but most of them were pretty seamlessly edited out. And content wise... So many people told me that they liked the Tony Merkel episode that I thought Nick's work would be a good compliment in terms of just a buncha rapid fire strange stories! Respect to Nick for finding his niche with this From dogmen and Mongolian death worms To time glitches and cave giants we covered quite a bit His Instagram has new stories all the time too, several good ones just since we've recorded this. One even about a document that mentions the military using gnomes in combat! Very strange... But it is great to be back home I never really thought i'd be driving back and forth from Austin to San Diego halfway across the country twice before my kid is even a year old but here we are

1:01:21 Thanks to everyone who came out to the event. It was an amazing turnout, the place was packed inside and out! It was definitely the best THC live event there has been to date I haven't done many but there were a few joint events at comedy clubs with Sam Tripoli And i'm super thankful that i got to actually have events at The Big Three Comedy Clubs in Southern California Pretty amazing bucket list item for me of course it's just a regular old Tuesday for Sam But I value those events very much, although we had Eddie Bravo at two of them and Gino from Compound Media at another one. And those dudes are just so loud that it's hard for me to really get a word in The panel at the Ice House was really great actually and i wish we had gotten more diversity of thought in there but Jimmy Dore was there! That's one that I'd consider the second best THC event...and I think it was the first

1:02:18 But anyway, grateful for those events but this one was way more what I think THC fans want. Just a good hang drinking a little drink smoking a little smoke and basically a live podcast with Gordon followed by a Q&A Pandora's box of all kinds of topics from natural healing and esoterica to Antarctica in the hollow earth And Gordon had just come back from the jungle, the insightful whispers of Mother Ayahuasca still fresh in his mind. It was exactly what a THC slash RuneSoup event should be! As it was coming up we definitely under hyped it as just a meetup because we really didn't know if we'd have the right setup for a live podcast and luckily...we did! I'm really proud of the quality, the turnout, the fact that it was totally free

1:03:11 As long as you are a member of one of our sites, I rarely see a free live podcast event from any other shows that i listen to so...I think that's cool. We didn't really give it a title but Apocalypse Planning 101 is pretty appropriate we talked about all the models that suggest the rest this decade is going be very challenging to say the least and what we can do deal with it Luckily we did get a pretty great recording So it will be up for plus members this week who couldn't make it And it is a video, so it's not going to be going in the RSS feed. But definitely take some time to check it out. Probably some of the best intel we've had for what's coming! I'm definitely trying to reorient my life appropriately and it keeps coming up in these interviews...I'm gonna try to tamper that down until I actually make a decision but I would suspect a lot you guys are thinking along similar lines

1:04:07 And episodes like this one today are always fun and it's good to get out of the same old lanes as everyone else. But this Austin event really did make me feel like we have to get some guests on, To break down different aspects of the kind of things that we talked about while there is still time for people to methodically consider how and where they want to step into the next chapter As Gordon said its not grim or dire but its stark It is to be taken seriously but we came here for this right? Anyway, I really look forward to hearing what you guys have to say about that video. So much stuff in it that i'm still thinking about actually Gordon's Ayahuasca Purge and Gerald Pollack's fourth phase Gel State Water Connection Being a big one of those things But it should be up in the next couple of days And let's look at the events calendar so sad I missed this one It was last night didn't even get to mention it on the air but a St Louis event at The Four Hands Brewery

1:05:09 I can't believe it looks like we had a 15 person turnout even without an announcement. Maybe i should move back there if there's such a good THC network brewing but, I hear good things about the Four Hands Brewery too! Have yet to check it out myself Within July 6th, in just two days we have another Seattle THC Inquisition at the Central Cafe. July 8th we have the Nashville Higher Ciders Happy Hour coming back around at The Tailgate Brewery. July 9th uh...the THC Las Vegas Family Fun Water Park event if you're in Vegas check that out I like it very creative idea and also july ninth we have

1:05:50 The Berliner THC find the other support group at the Castle Berlin in Berlin, Germany if you are in Germany. Help a brother out and build that network! It's a big city surely we got some listeners there? But that's great lots of events in just the first 10 days of the month people are finding other people and it's a beautiful thing When so many people are blissfully ignorant of the challenges ahead, it behooves us to form the right relationships now. I am honored to actually play a little part in that but hop onto the calendar and check out the other upcoming events or make your own! Of course today's show is really great in The Second Hour like every episode and Nick even put some special attention into making sure our second hour had some great stories

1:06:38 I very much appreciate him doing that. Of course, it's usually like the first hour is for the guests promotion and the second hour is to keep us alive but to have him put that thought in was very considerate there were a couple in particular that I really liked and if you know then you know If you don't sign up for The Higher Side Chats Plus at thehighersidechats.com You can get the seven-day free trial And check it out for yourself But that's the show. Big thanks to Nick for sharing great stories and taking the time I could say something sour and negative about the spirit of the 4th of July really being in short supply but honestly just enjoy it Get together with people you care about, and make sanctuary as Gordon might say Unite rather than divide And have empathy for people who aren't handling these times with grace because we're under a lot of pressure these days

1:07:32 Enjoy that extra day off the hamster wheel and I will see you next time. Check out Nick's Instagram, and his book if you're into this kind of thing, Tales from the Grid Square And thanks for listening! I've done my part your move ghost soldiers roaming dogmen in Mongolian death worms Your fucking move When you see weird lights outside of your door Something sits on your chest when you sleep It might be a pattern you've been through before. Or you might have those screen memories. Darling, wait till we get some proof that will make them see. And baby I tried the camera right. I'm not crazy how people can't get free from this steal.

1:08:43 It's getting just a bit out of hand We really just want to get back on with our days Don't care about the pirating plan So honey now, don't walk into the skinny arms No they came from the sky from out of the stars Place something on my beating heart Baby this damn life is too bizarre I can tell when they're gone cause my memories fade But we know that it's not just a dream Cause they never put me back exactly the same way And the pain is as real as the scream Honey, you're

1:09:59 might be the whole, oh, last sense of theme. The higher side chats has covered all that we're breaking free. People can't get free from this disgrace it's getting just a bit out of hand We really just want to get back on with our days Don't care about the hybrid in plan But for now, don't walk into their skinny arm No they came from the sky from out of the stars Play something I'm a beating heart

1:11:08 Baby this damn life is too bizarre So honey now Don't walk into the skinny, oh No they came from the sky From out of the stars Play something on my beating heart I'm shouting out

1:12:02 Baby this damn life is too bizarre Honey I think we're on some kind of fall Baby this damn life is too bizarre And that is another show complete! Remember, as much as you enjoyed this which is just the free first hour I hope you'll become a Plus Member to hear the full two-hour interviews. You also can engage with other Plus Members in the comments and the forums and you'll find your answer to one of the most common questions I get which is where can I find those cover songs that you use at the end of the show? Well they are free downloads for Plus Members too

1:12:50 And without Plus Members, I can't hire the occasional musician to bring these odd cover song ideas to fruition. Plus members are how I'm able to do what I do without ads and without the big machine being on my back! We can fit so much more into a two-hour interview and I'd do my best to make it worth your time and money." The conversation only gets deeper, weirder, and more controversial in that private hour. How could it not be the way things are going? But the best way to sign up is at TheHigherSideChats.com, where new first-time subscribers always get a free 7 day trial because I'm just that confident! There's no PayPal on the website but if you need to use PayPal then sign up through Patreon and you get all of the same episodes

1:13:33 Our website is a credit or debit system, but you can also scope out the other options like a few various cryptos. Cash or check mailed to the P.O box and I'll even barter with most people if you have your own business and produce something nice that my wife or kid or taste buds might like But the architects of consensus reality have made it clear that these themes and topics aren't really welcome on the main stage. And so this is how we secure a little counterculture corner for ourselves, and I hope you'll join PLUS because that's the only way it works! Besides, you can cancel any time right on your profile page. The most common concern I hear is people just being unsure if THC Plus will work with their podcast app and the answer is probably yes! But if not we have several high-level app recommendations for whatever phone you use and the website is made for mobile too

1:14:24 We're trained to tip a waitress for bringing us a sandwich, but that tip doesn't give you access to a second sandwich. Really I'm not asking for any more than that and think I offer better service. Come get your second serving of tasty conspiracy goodness in exchange for that small token of your appreciation. Beyond that let it also be known we have grown and survived as long as we have by word-of-mouth I don't care so much about social media likes or follows, but tell the right people about THC. And not just listeners but the high level figures who are better suited to sit down with me than most other hosts. And if you can help me with any of these things, I can work to bring you better shows which is just a win-win for both us! Informative, entertaining and action packed

1:15:09 It also never hurts to thank a guest you liked if you have the time either. We want them to know people are listening so they're willing to come back down the road too! Thank YOU for spending some time with me and cheers to a better tomorrow!