Mike Wilkerson AKA Stellium7 | Biogeology, Titans, & The Hacker Prince

00:00 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man And until we've thoroughly tested every last closed chest we dig Cause we know they're lying to us just to get a show

00:52 Here we go again, Hireside Chatters. From the Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood and as the deep layers of our assumptions are peeled back and reexamined were finding a lot of inconsistencies with things we thought we could consider the known knowns basic fundamental facts in settled science And it seems that the desire to dig deeper often does yield fruitful new discoveries that the experts would just tell us to ignore. From world's fairs, cabbage patch babies and orphan trains... ...to historical timelines medical science earth science and really almost every other scientific discipline across the board! The pattern is often similar where new information arises that clashes with the established paradigm and after the initial knee-jerk reaction is overcome, the open minded among us might start to work out how such new information affects the larger picture and mental constructs we already have established.

01:41 Then, when we try to share this new information we're often met with a much more aggressive knee-jerk reaction and emotionally charged arguments that really just boil down to regurgitated rhetoric trusts the experts in a shockingly small amount of substance. In my experience it ironically ends up being that the critics of a given paradigm actually know the details of the established narrative far better than those who aggressively defend it while being unwilling to explore alternatives." Well, what if this template also applies to things like geology and things like natural transmutation? What if it applies to myths and legends of titans in ancient past that's far more bizarre than cavemen and campfires. And maybe not even that ancient. Folks you can't help but wonder when you dive into the work of todays guest Mike Wilkerson which he calls biogeology and explores deeply on his YouTube channel Seleum7

02:32 I myself am guilty of rejecting these possibilities until i was drawn in more deeply by our old friend analog and I might not yet be fully convinced of it all but I am convinced that its more than just silliness and creationist wish fulfillment. I find the premise pretty out there, but in the spirit of not doing unto others what has been done unto me...I'm here to give a shot at taking the ride! But thats not all folks Mike also has a new book out titled The Hacker Prince that finally tells the tale of his youth You see, Mike spent his teenage years back in the 80s at what really was ground zero for early computer hacking and spent a lot of time within that developing community. In 1985 he infiltrated Microsoft, a Boeing subsidiary and two other Seattle corporations and was caught

03:16 Mike became the first person in the world to go to jail for the crime of computer intrusion, aka hacking. After that, Mike spent over a decade practicing chiropractic care in Spain aiming to transform world health one spine and mind at a time not one but two or maybe even three lives lived far more interesting than my own let's get into it The Biogeology Guy and another artist formerly known as Prince The Sprinter himself! Mike welcome to the higher side Thank you. Wonderful to be here Yeah, man. And fun opener you're the best at that better it's easy it's easy and just for context the sprinter was your online hacker pseudonym and Prince was actually your given name at birth I actually thought when I saw the book that was a little presumptuous something this guy calls himself prince well okay but so for anyone thinking along those lines that is the reason but that whole story is wild I really liked

04:15 The time that you were going through all that. And there's definitely some good stuff in there I want to get into, but I think we have to start with the biogeology material because it is just so bizarre. It's what you're known for now. I watched a presentation actually where you yourself went over how poor some of the overall discourse and intellectual rigor has been on this subject, which was really refreshing for me to hear if In fact, I was probably wrong to dismiss you as being part of all that stuff. Like looking at a mountain and saying, whoa it looks like it could have been a person's face or a giant creature. Or those who might think it's a low res attempt to validate creationism or something like that? Let's get out in front of those assumptions while they're still on their daily commute and still have time to stick around with us talk to us about what biogeology is and how you're a lot more analytical than that. Biogeology is the term that I appropriated

05:21 from mainstream science that's little used and it describes the exchange between the biosphere and the lithosphere. And most people have never heard of that discipline in the science paradigm. And so I thought this is a wonderful term to denote the distinction between the mainstream narratives that we've been given about the nature of petrogenesis, in other words where stone comes from and alternative theories that I was coming across and then also was formulating on my own. So I thought this is a wonderful way to denote that difference because

06:04 stories about how stone comes about. And it's a pretty simplistic model, really the cycle of petrogenesis is what it's called where you have the dying of plant and animal life that are laying down over long periods of time and then eventually compressing. That's what we call sedimentary layering. Then that compression becomes so great that those layers start to start to melt and swirl, and then we get these much denser kinds of stone like marble for example. And then as that continues and you get closer to the Earth's mantle or the core of the Earth, you get this immense heating and that all melts into magma

06:46 And then that's pushed up through fissures in the earth, which we call volcanoes. And you can obviously witness volcanoes doing their thing and lava coming out of them and eventually cooling so we know that the formation of igneous stone comes about in a way that we were taught But there are a lot of things to suggest that maybe the other things aren't exactly as we were taught. And so, that's why I appropriated the term biogeology because I thought it was a great umbrella term for a lot of different things that I was coming across that had to do with titans gigantic trees, the possibility that petrified organs might exist in large quantities but we've been blinded to the possibility by the paradigm that we've been raised in

07:30 You've got the sedimentary and you've got metamorphic, and you've got the igneous. And then I use that term to describe titans trees petrified organs in just this idea of rapid petrification that there might be different ways in which petrification comes about far quicker than we were taught Because we know that petrified trees exist and we're given these timelines, that this is something that happened two or three hundred million years ago. It takes thousands or even millions of years for that to come about but what if it can happen very quickly? That's really what my whole channel has been about for the last seven years is exploring those ideas

08:15 I love it. That's a great intro and the speed in which this stuff can happen is, I think one of the most compelling elements that we will get to but another thing I found compelling is that it's not just a profile of a mountain that looks like you like profile of a face, or in the case of your multi-part documentary. A huge three mile long Titan mammoth or some vertebrate type of thing. It's not just the shape of it that looks kind of like a mammoth. It is actually that there seems to be caves and cavities inside

08:51 this particular mountain at least that match where the eye socket would be or where the ear canal would be. So it's not just the outside, you have to look at this thing and say Okay, here's what we're looking at. It looks like it could be a mammoth or like a giant dog laying down or some kind of four-legged creature and then okay that's one thing but then going inside the mountain and having cavities where organs would be and having that match up now we're cooking with gas now we're talking about a true mystery and that's something I hoped you could elaborate on if you have

09:29 easy to access photos of that, it would be probably pretty compelling for people to see. Sure yeah I mean you're talking about the concept of pareidolia which is this idea that we recognize a face in something or or a shape and it's not actually there And there are loads and loads of photographs circulating from the people who were interested in these subjects, titans or gigantism in general. Basically they're presenting these things as if it's just proof as a fact that these things once existed And I was highly skeptical early on. I come from an academic background, I have two college degrees, I did a master's in chiropractic and part of that was a master's thesis. And so we learned a lot about the scientific method and how to properly apply it. So I was seeing these videos and photographs and the claims being made and I was like

10:24 Okay, it's a fun idea but is there truth to it and where's the follow-up? Usually it's just one photograph from one angle. They're not accounting for the possibility that could be shadows that are shaping the look, foliage, snow... That sort of thing. I originally came across these ideas through a few different videos one was one called geology revived by a channel called wakey wakey that no longer exists and he was just pulling at the threads of geology and challenging the cornerstones of some of the major beliefs about petrogenesis and how stone comes about. Then there was a video called No Forests on Earth or no forests on flat earth that was looking at the giant tree idea, looking at these different tabletop mountains that exist around the world

11:17 places like Devil's Tower in Wyoming and, you know, suggesting the possibility that these were once great trees. And we're talking about things that were an order of magnitude larger than the largest trees on Earth right now which would be your sequoias. So I thought it was fascinating but it wasn't something that I was going to jump into and study more in depth but another channel Jay Dreamers, he was talking about this subject Titans and different things that had to do with eschatology and cataclysm and different periods in time when there were great dyings off.

11:56 And even in the mainstream geological model, they talk about that. They say there were five great cataclysms the most recent having been the asteroid strike that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs and several before that so we can see in the fossil record that there are all kinds of species that once existed but no longer do but J-Dreamers was really synthesizing a lot of these different ideas in a way that was pretty palatable and made sense to me But I still wasn't completely convinced. It was really the penny drop for me because there were some different sites that he showed images of like an island just off the coast of Maui and another place in Iceland that looked very much like elephants, not just from one angle but from multiple angles. And for me that's a key when it comes to pareidolia if you're looking at something from one angle well what what's it going to look like if you if you're looking at it from 90 degrees

12:55 rotation? Is it still going to look like what you're thinking, is it going to look at if you're looking in 3D and your tilting and your zooming around does it does it look lik that from all these different angles. And I would say the vast majority of what's being shared out there doesn't. So that was an annoyance for me because of the steadfast claims that were being made, so once i saw his video that was when when I just kind of went wait a minute because there is this mountain in the town that I live here on the Costa Blanca in Spain called Mont Gau and it's also known affectionately as the elephant here. And the reason is because it looks a heck of a lot like an elephant, not just the overall shape but like you mentioned there's a cave right where an eye socket should be

13:42 And that cave isn't just an opening. It's actually shaped like an eye socket, like we have this eyebrow bridge and if this were a vertebrate or specifically like a mammoth or elephant type creature theirs is far more pronounced and it has that feature. So I'd been up at that cave many times on my own just hiking and checking it out and never contemplated the possibility of that I might be walking on an ancient Titan But I thought, what a fun flight of fancy. This is an interesting intellectual exercise let's just see what comes about so i got on Google Earth and started looking at this thing which was pretty high resolution because it was in a nice tourist area so I was able to get a lot of detail with Google Earth and tilt and rotate

14:31 And what I found after about an hour of looking is that there were about eight, nine, 10 different macro anatomical features that matched up perfectly with anatomy and we're where they should be. And so I was like, That's already a pretty big number. It is one thing if you are looking at something from one angle, it is another thing if you're looking from an angle that has an eye socket and there is quarter moon discoloration. The whole mountain is limestone so it is grey or white and everywhere the rock is broken away

15:08 it's actually reddish underneath. And in fact, when you do break away rock, it exposes these channels that are filled with a red earth and oftentimes iron ore and quartz crystal. And so we can get to that later but basically it's in alignment with the composition of a bone, which I hadn't really hit on until later on when i started gathering information about the mountain. But there's this quarter moon cutout that looks like an ear was removed and it's in the exact place that an ear should be So, and then if you think the head and the shoulders there's it curves in on both sides right where the head would meet the shoulders. Each one of these is a point on a list of features right? And the longer that list gets the more bizarre it is because it's one thing if it looks like something from a certain angle It's another thing If there are 10 or 20 or 30 or 50 things that line up

16:09 seven years since I started this process of examining the mountain and looking at it, I've accumulated over 50 anatomical and histological correlations. So I've been in the caves, I've spelunked them, I photographed them, I got video, I have taken microscopy to it you know a 1000x microscope really done a pretty thorough in-depth investigation into this. And so when you think about games of chance and rolling dice, and what are the odds of rolling double sixes? What are the odds of rolling it three times in a row or six or 10 times in a row that number gets astronomical very quickly. And it's the same thing when you're looking at a list of features that are highly specific. And I can show people later on what I mean by highly specific. The greater that list grows

16:59 the more likely there's some sort of a pattern at work. Whether we're in some kind of matrix that is morphing to accommodate my examinations, or if this is the Twilight Zone I don't know but the more I got into it, the more surreal it became. But I went in very level-headed and After that initial foray into the idea on Google Earth, I got out my anatomy books from school and started looking more in depth at the anatomy of the eye socket. Because I remembered from school that the eye socket is very detailed. It's comprised of seven different bones that make up where the eyeball sits.

17:42 And all of those bones have meeting points that are known as sutures. And then there are also fissures, which are gaps between those bones where things like the optic nerve and blood vessels are traveling right so I had a list of things that I would expect to find if there was any truth to this harebrained idea. And I went up to do a little reconnaissance and on that first trip, up to the eye after looking at it through Titanology eyes, I found an additional 10 features within the cave So already we're up to about 20. And that's a big number, so the question is you know to the skeptic how big does that number have to get before you start to consider something of possibility? When does it become a

18:32 plausibility, when is it a probability or when is it just a fact? And for a lot of people that number's far lower than it is for me because I'm skeptical of my own work as well. But there are other things that have come along Uh, since then that I'm far more confident about than the mountain. Which is surprising consider how much data I accumulated perfect. Well, that is a great summary and I think I'll probably just have my editor play the trailer during the talking that you were doing because I feel like the trailer on mute really does a good job of showing the cavities as we're talking about them and stuff because we're already 25 minutes in there's so many things I want to add

19:12 ask you about another thing I did not know about you before getting into this work when I was kind of just dismissing it as, yeah. You're not a geologist, but you have a master's in chiropractic which means that you are very intimately familiar with one half of the knowledge base of making this sort of claim so I feel like that's significant and should count for something. And, also not a huge fan surprise surprise of citing the Bible as evidence for something but the book of Enoch is sort of different because it's a special case in these non-canon books you know i put them in a different category of hey if they wanted to take that out there's a reason some truth must be revealed and

20:03 You just mentioned that there are new things outside of the mountain that you're more confident about. What are those things? Well, that's the evidence in favor of the big trees. Most people kind of stop short at the plateau mountains or devil's tower and then there's lots of debate even within the so-called truth community about what it is or isn't. And I just see that as a data point. It's pretty compelling, you look at it and i'll show little video clip for those who aren't familiar later but you know its just one of plethora of points that actually are in favor of the theory and dovetail perfectly

20:43 Tabletop mountains is one thing, Devil's Tower is another thing. Is there more evidence? And there is a ton of evidence and a lot of that I've seen with my own eyes There's a channel called Hangman1128 and he started his channel around the same time that I started mine While I was exploring this mountain and presenting the evidence that I was finding He was doing the same thing in Colorado and in the Black Hills of South Dakota. And he was presenting images and HD footage that was just jaw-dropping for me, it was so clear that what I was seeing was the remnants of tree but on a scale we can't really fathom. We're talking trees that were miles wide

21:33 the base. So you can only imagine how high up into the sky something like that would have stretched and so that sounds absolutely absurd, and where did the trees go? And where's the evidence for that? We can get into that as well. The other thing was there were all kinds of anomalous examples in the field of geology that I was totally unaware of, things petrifying that shouldn't be, things happening very quickly that should take far longer. And then along the way I came across this Heartstone phenomenon which is a discovery of my own where I recognized that stone that I saw on a river bottom

22:14 was matching up with the anatomy of a heart to very high degree of specificity. And I thought, okay this is wild! I gotta take this home and examine it and get out the anatomy books again. When i did that you know I found initially about 15 different anatomical correlations on that one stone And it's highly specific, I'll show that as well. And then I figured okay using the scientific method you know ideally things should be scalable they should be repeatable they should be highly specific and they should be predictable right? Those are kind of the cardinal things you're looking for when you're looking for a pattern or whether not you know a pattern that you think you're seeing is actually a real pattern

22:59 And so I went out and started looking for more of these things, and I started finding them in droves. It's astonishing what I've found and what I presented And you were also mentioning the whole creationism thing. I just want to come back to the apocryphal texts and the Book of Enoch and Jasher because I wasn't aware any of that stuff, because I'm not coming at this from a Christian background at all. And I was aware that several of the channels that I was initially looking at that were talking about these kinds of concepts were very much coming from that angle. And I'm like, okay well this is reifying their faith in the book obviously they might have an unconscious vested interest in this narrative being true and one way or another so they you know might start to bend the data in order to fit their narratives and their book but

23:54 But then I found out about the Book of Enoch. It says that 3,000 Ls were how tall these things were and that equates to roughly a mile tall so So that's perfectly on scale with this mountain that I've been exploring and I had no idea. And then there are a lot of synchronicities that have happened along the way too, like the river that goes alongside this mountain is actually named Gata de Gorgos and the gorgots were the gorgons and one of them was Medusa, the goddess of instant petrification you know? Look at something and boom it's stone right so i'm like okay what are the odds of that heartstone thing led to the discoveries related, I don't know if you saw the helical heart that the heart is not what we were taught in school at all. Yes, actually have had a guest do a deep dive on

24:41 on Rudolf Steiner's take on the heart, that it's a double vortex. And that's all very compelling like blood is a bit of a mystical substance you can't ever really study it inside of a body. It studied outside when, when it's oxygenized, it's not the same thing and when it's separated from the whole, it's also not the same thing. So any scientific assumptions made about blood? I mean they're kind of weak and then you got Gerald Pollack who has been here before coming up again soon. Um... with his new book on anti-gravity, but he also discovered the fourth phase of water and the water in the cell and the gel state stuff. The more you dive into assumptions in science is the more you learn that it's pretty weak and that actually there's a mystical philosophy about some of this stuff that

25:29 It can't be studied the way they say it does. You can only study dead tissue, really? You can only study cut out burned dead tissue that's been mixed with formaldehyde so it shows up in the right way and added dies to it. That's not what it really is you've altered it and like The scientists, you know, they'll look at a lot of this evidence or something and say well you altered that. It's like well look at what you're doing in the lab that you, you know your alterations are apparently okay and this is just picking up a rock from a riverbed that happens to have all the same qualities of an actual mammalian heart. You didn't do anything to it!

26:08 take four rocks together and put them together. You didn't slice off a piece of the rock to make it look more like a heart. So yeah, very interesting. There's so many different avenues we could go and with the remainder of the first hour I just wanted to get into right? Yeah, sure. Hey, hey, I'm home now, so I'm on only our time. Uh, I wanted to talk a little bit about the wood and gold relationship or this general theory that you've got that biological materials break down to some of the precious metals and gold and stuff because one of the questions is why would they lie about a lot of this? Well, obviously there's a lot of money. That's the biggest answer I mean well that and just...I've come to the conclusion that ology is synonymous with gatekeeping. I think all of the ologies are compromised in my opinion And they wouldn't have an ology about something unless there was a need to gatekeep

27:03 And I agree. And then when you get into the Royal Society and the Nobel, and all that it's just more of the same. So obviously these theories of mine don't work on a ball the size they told us right? You can have trees that big and creatures that big they would just be right back where they started pretty quick so i'm open to the possibility that the earth is not what we were taught either which is one of the biggest rabbit holes of all I don't, I don't assert a shape but i'm definitely a globe skeptic and I think NASA all of the space agencies have been feeding us a load of bull for decades. awakening to that as a possibility starts to open the doors to the idea that, well maybe the realm isn't what we were taught. Maybe it extends far further out you know? We don't know! Maybe it's hollow... There are a lot of maybes but you don't have to know what something is to be able to determine what it isn't

27:59 And so if you're presented with a model that is faulty and you pick apart that model, it's actually fallacious reasoning to say well where is your model? Yes. No I agree with that too even about 9-11 something as simple as 9-11 you can look at the footage and say two planes didn't knock down those towers and then they say well then three tell us what did yeah it's like well it's not up to me It, maybe it was nano thermite. Maybe Dr. Judy Wood is right? It's really not up to me. Uh it's you know, you gave a false story that's the lie that we should focus on but okay in terms of wood and gold so there is this relationship like I was a little ignorant of this obviously analog broke me into it a bit but I

28:40 I Rare is a qualifier. If it happens ever, then it can happen so they're not denying it and then there's forums and subreddits where people are asking hey is this gold in my petrified wood because they're also surprised and then commenters who have degrees in this stuff will say well I don't think that's wood but it does look like gold and then the argument devolves but

29:19 It just goes to show that it's a lot harder to distinguish these things, even among enthusiasts. What is a rock? What is stone and what is petrified wood? I mean the story goes that when NASA gave the moon rock to The Netherlands as a gift They eventually tested it and it was petrified wood. Why wouldn't they give them a rock from the Arizona desert? They gave him petrified wood, so obviously they were trying to fool them and they thought that would be a good way to do it So it's just another you start hearing these things stack up like huh the relationship between petrified wood and stone or gold is You know closer than people realize And then I want to throw this in and then I'm gonna turn it back over to you but

30:04 One of the big things that I thought was so interesting after hours and hours of your work is rapid petrification, because our whole model relies on the timelines. And we've already dissected carbon-14 dating with previous guests and I think that's pretty well dismissed but people still think about geology and the sedimentary layer and the layers of the earth in little cartoon depictions at my kids are seen in school probably right as we speak of all these layers of the earth and how many millions of years it all took. This is where it gets interesting because you have many examples of human-made, very rapid short term petrification doesn't take millions of years doesn't even take millions a minute

30:45 They can expose wood to certain conditions and gases in a lab and petrify it within days. They grow opals from wood. Coalification in biochar is another example, I mean biochar's a big thing but it happens quite fast and if you were to study at an isolation you might think that was the decay of matter over millions of years And then you mentioned a guy who goes by Nighthawk in light on YouTube and shows the process of combining chromium oxide, aluminum oxide steel wool. A couple other factors and he makes rubies in a microwave in minutes seconds Seconds, okay. And then you have a slide that cites trees with metals dog parts acorns and potatoes there wasn't much elaboration on those things but the general idea that even fossilization and similar processes do not take as long as we've been told is very interesting I mean it's like the timeline of all these different eras from the Jurassic and Cretaceous

31:48 I mean it's not as rock solid pun intended as they tell us. So talk to us about some of these things because the wood gold gem relationship and this is, this is the really fascinating stuff to me you don't need a giant titan to get into this. I've come to the conclusion that there are variety of different ways things can petrify They can petrify through extremely high heat. They can petrify through electricity, plasma... The mainstream model is what's known as paramineralization which is the infusion of the mineral elements that are in mud and coming slowly working their way into the tissues as the water and gases that are in the tissue whether it's plant life or animal life

32:26 are working their way out. And that is what we're told, the petrification process but we're given these extremely long timelines and as you mentioned with carbon 14 and the dating techniques have often been hotly contested as they've been introduced and then later on there's settled science and dogma right? So we're told all these things about the timelines how long it took for things to come about That may not actually be true. And, you know when Mount St Helens erupted for example that it laid down like 30 feet of layering, you know from the slurry flow of the pyroclastic flows. There's a geologist that was examining this and he's like well normally we would look at this and think oh this took millions of years to form because you've got all these micro-layering but in reality it formed in a matter hours and then later on trees petrified as well so that's far shorter timeline than what were given there are two studies that you made mention one is with some Japanese scientists where they

33:29 They took seven different pieces of wood and they put them all in hot volcanic waters. which have high mineral content. Each year they removed one piece of the seven, and by the time they got to the seventh year it was fully petrified so that's just another one of those interesting things. Volcanic ash combined with high mineral content waters worldwide flooding if you've got asteroid strikes or whatever the cataclysms are imagine the whole ring of fire going off at the same time all of those volcanoes spewing up ash Well, when the ash goes up in the air it's highly conductive. So the biggest electrical storms in the world have been seen and recorded over volcanoes that's where you can get the most magnificent lightning strikes. Well imagine if the whole atmosphere was filled with that kind of stuff because you've got hundreds or thousands of volcanoes erupting simultaneously

34:24 That's the kind of thing that could have happened in the past. And then when you look at what plasma does, like there are experiments where they're taking electrodes and they're putting them on wood and they're burning this fractal pattern in the wood that just happens naturally. This gets back to your question about the petrified trees and metals So that fractal pattern, you know on a larger scale is known as the Lichtenberg figure. Right? And you can see these when you're looking over the Earth on Google Earth there are lots of these different fractal patterns that they tell us are formed by rivulets that eventually accumulate into rivers but if you just think about it logically that really doesn't make much sense The largest of those Lichtenberg figures is the Grand Canyon

35:07 Right? So we're talking about a fractal pattern that's branching just like our lungs or trees would branch, but it's being done by burning on the wood. Well what if there was you know a plasma storm that was 100 000 times bigger than the biggest one we've ever recorded could that do something like create the Grand Canyon right? We can't... It's hard to fathom these kinds of events you know you can look at the results To actually imagine it happening is a challenge. But when it comes to the metals in the trees, this was something Ben sent me. I mean he and I have known each other for a long time and he has fed me a lot of articles over the years that were matching perfectly with the things that I was finding and theorizing about

35:57 And then he's got these, you know 100 year old pre Rockefeller takeover articles You know that are talking about the stuff matter of fact talking about petrified organs talking about petrified fruits Talking about gigantism talking about crazy cryptids of enormous size and when you read these texts They they have a ring of truth about them. They're extremely well written It doesn't seem like it's like a National Enquirer of the day their quality writing so And he started sending me these and some of the ones that were most interesting had to do with the petrified forests, which they harvested. So now we have a couple of spots where people can go and pay to see the petrified trees and maybe buy a piece of one but these used to be all over the nation probably all over the world Where are they now? They were harvested why because they were filled with gold silver copper

36:51 and all kinds of probably precious gems and other things that they were grabbing. And I mean, there's one article where it's talking about they were asking $15,000 of silver to the ton from these petrified trees. That's a lot of silver. That's $600,000 by today's money if you go back 100 years per ton. That's a good return on your investment, right? So people ask well why would they lie about this if our myths and our legends and our historical texts in our religious texts are actually telling the true story of our pasts and they're not just fantasies that were hit upon by primitives

37:31 then there must be a reason, right? And well maybe part of that reason is the heliocentric evolution comet strike cosmos that we justify our trillion dollar space agencies because we got to get off this rock before you get destroyed. So that's one big giant black hole when it comes to finances but another is mining You know, how important is mining in this realm? It's pretty darn important. And if you have a jump on where the good stuff is because you know that that used to be a tree and that used to be a creature and who knows what that was... If you know those things and everyone else has bamboozled into believing these simplistic stories that we've been given by the mainstream narrative

38:17 I call it paradigm blindness. You're blinded by the paradigm, we're all blinded by paradigms in one way or another and when you grow up having a certain set of beliefs there's your vested interest right there if you're going to get a jump on all the precious materials so just to relate this back to the plasma thing is they can find golden leaves of living trees it's not just petrified trees It's very, very tiny quantities. And what they're telling us is that the trees are sucking it up out of the earth." And the question is, is that true or are the trees creating it? Because in the mainstream model they don't talk about biological transmutation of elements and they don't talk about like plasma or electrical transmutation of elements. We're told that one kind of an atom can only turn into another kind of an atom in the heart of stars or in something like a particle collider or in a nuclear fission reactor

39:11 Right? There's no acknowledgement of the simple fact that biology creates elements. And the easiest example of that is the chicken egg, like they've done measurements where they've looked at how much the chicken is consuming And they found that the amount of calcium that's in the chickens diet is less than what is in the shell, let alone what the chicken needs for its own bones. So that means that calcium for the shell which it's primarily calcium has to be coming from somewhere so that the chicken is consuming things and then somehow biologically fusing them together to create an element, which we're told is impossible. So I believe that the mainstream periodic table of elements is accurate enough that it can be used for the production of different things but it's skewed in a way that throws us off from the real nature reality and I think its closer to somebody like Walter Russell ideas about you know about the periodic table

40:09 And then just the last point, and then I'll pass it back to you. We have monatomics in our bloodstream in our bodies. Right? We have monotonic gold, we have monotomic silver... The part contains the whole, right? As the whole cliche as above so below, as within so without. You know, we have everything in us and that's kind of the idea behind homeopathy also is like energetically affecting the body because everything contains everything. So we have these monatomics, well if you hit a body or a tree with an incredible force like a Lichtenberg figure would, you know like what would be needed to create one of those

40:53 then all of those elements that are not burned away, are going to align themselves along the line of current. So we're told that sap is petrified or that amber is petrified sap I don't I don't believe that. First of all, it's a 2.5 on the hardness scale on the Mohs scale right? You can dent amber with your fingernail What would it look like if it was turned to stone and that's where we get into the work of hangman1128 He's showing that the sap petrifies into varying types of quartz depending on the tree Sap can come in any color Right you've got green red all kinds of stuff

41:34 there are quartz crystals like what you're holding there that grow, right? And you can grow crystals in a laboratory very quickly. Like you can grow big crystal in as little as like 40 or 50 days with the right nutrients and so that's different from what I'll show later on as we get into the presentation but the idea being where do they find gold and silver they find them in quartz seams. So, they go looking for the quartz which would be the sap and then what do they find in the quartz seams? They find gold veins and silver veins so these are also typically like a fractal

42:17 kind of a shape. So I think what's happening is that there's a transmutation of elements, i don't think that the old trees that eventually petrified were growing the metal inside of them...I think that it coalesced into these lines of current as it was being as it was being petrified. So many interesting things and yeah, obviously I've got some quartz crystal up on my desk you know i interview some of these new agey people and they're like well it's good to have around for the signals and all this and I don't feel anything but I think they're kind of cool and you know I just...I look at this and I'm trying to think of it like open-mindedly about

42:55 Potential of it being something else or having been something else, but I mean they have these crystal growing kits for kids and like you say it's something different. So I guess it is something different, but that's kind of one of the ones that's hard for me to wrap my head around. But another thing I just wanted to point out for people as you talk about the hard boiled egg theory and that is a really great way to think about just the simple process of heat turning liquid biomaterial into a solid state. I mean, it's not exactly Iraq but you know the white of the egg and the yolk is transformed by just a little bit of heat for five minutes think about heat that's 100 times hotter

43:41 You know, think about a lightning strike or something. What could it do? I think it's compelling. I think that's a great like entry point into well just the simple heat can transform aspects of biological material into something that's hardly recognizable, but yet we take it for granted because we know about eggs. Yeah I was finding these heart stones you know that were matching up with anatomy to a high degree of specificity and they should not have been have been, you know based on what we're taught. Because we're told that a stone like this is just a broken fragment of a larger structure that banged around in the river bottom and through water and acid rain or different kinds of erosion eventually it took on this shape

44:29 that's all well and good until that shape starts to be highly specific and matching anatomy, and scalable from little to big. And very repeatable to a high degree of specificity then that idea of it being a broken fragment of something larger gets thrown out the window." I couldn't understand it because a lot of people were asking me like what was widespread sacrifice where they remove the organs and petrified them. I'm like, no it you know, I don't know how it happened but eventually I came up with boiled egg theory which if you think about the chest and abdominal cavities you have the heart and the lungs are in there and the liver and all the other organs and they're all suspended in water right? They're floating around and anchored in place and then that the cavities themselves are big fatty

45:22 containers. And I was like, wow that's like a pressure cooker and what happens when you use the pressure cooker? You need less heat for less time so if you have a pressure cooker and use a lot of heat for more time What's that going to do to whatever is inside? It's very interesting because we see what happens with eggs. But if you cook an egg too quick, too fast it starts to leak out and the protein escapes because the shell is rigid but the heart has the thickest of the fatty sacs that surrounds it. It's called the pericardium and that's flexible to accommodate for the contraction of the heart while we're alive

46:01 But when we die, everything goes into rigor mortis and the heart being a muscle it also hardens. So if you think of the heart as being roughly the size of your fist right? It has formed that... You've got the ventricles, you've got this tapering in, you've got the big blood vessels that are coming out of the top, the aorta and the vena cava. You have a whole bunch of features that are very specific and when heated up to a high degree could very well harden like that. So I don't have an experiment where i've turned hearts to stone but Analog sent me several articles that had to do with petrified hearts, and one guy who was a subscriber on my channel

46:46 had his Australian Ridgeback dog passed away and he created this pyre to burn, you know, to cremate the dog. And it was eight feet long four feet wide six feet high and it burned for 36 hours. He saw my videos and he was like this is mind-blowing because after the fire was all burned out he went to pour water on it just to make sure there were no embers that were still aglow And the only thing that survived that fire was the heart. And he said it had hardened to a high degree, so it's interesting you got that chest and abdominal cavity, you've got the pressure, you have the protective layer of the pericardium and imagine plasma

47:27 Strike, you know lightning but sustained and way more powerful than our typical lightning strikes that could easily easily burn away the outer portions of the body and aside from plasma there's also pyroclastic flows which are said to reach temperatures of up to 1500 degrees Celsius And can travel at the speed of sound so if you go into a hot sauna and you blow on your arm You can almost burn your arm because because It doesn't the blowing isn't going to cool it down. It actually heats things up, right? So when you get to those higher temperatures Super high winds with super high heat that could easily annihilate a body like ours in short order very interesting so

48:08 I have to ask you about this because we're talking about the hearts thing. There's a longer video on your channel. I didn't get to watch it in time, but I wanted to ask you about it anyway. About four years ago, you posted this big thank you to all who have been patiently and eagerly awaiting the results of the laboratory testing of the heart stones. The results are in and tonight we'll have a thorough and long go through the results and their implications paradigm crushed Well, that sounds exciting. What were some of the results of the tests? Yeah well I had a run-in you could say with a couple of guys and i sent stones to them. I put out a video before that called Exciting Research Day because they reached out to me seemingly in good faith because they were curious. They'd seen

48:59 the videos and wondered about them, and wondered if I might be willing to send them some stones to have analyzed at a laboratory that was being run by one of the two guys. And I thought absolutely because in a previous stream I literally asked for that and said if anyone knows anybody. I'd like to continue this research and get some actual data." I didn't know what the conclusions were going to be, but I'm going to be intellectually honest about it and sent them off. They offered to pay me for the stones and I declined. I just wanted the data. Yeah, I can show you the actual report that I got back and you can decide for yourself whether it has any merit

49:40 But I had an initial conversation with the first of the two guys that lasted about 45 minutes. And he asked if you could record the call and I've said, sure. I had nothing to hide or anything to worry about so we had that conversation. And then six weeks later something, the two of them had a conversation discussing the results of the testing And they recorded that conversation as well. So I received both of those audio files and then I received the supposed

50:17 lab results. I was shocked and astonished, this was supposedly a reputable laboratory with the guy who is highly respected and they just gave me the runaround they didn't conduct a single experimentation or examination on the stone It was all just looking at them and drawing conclusions. And then I'll show it because it's absolutely a travesty what these two guys did, so I realized okay either these guys are just you know they have a vested interest in this or you know I didn't know exactly what was going on but I took those audio files and I broke them down

50:58 sentence by sentence, because obviously we're talking about some pretty technical terms and a lot of times when you get into anatomy you've got your Latin there. And so I wanted people to understand that these ideas aren't really that complicated the things that they're claiming about the stones We can look at that. I can show you with stones, I can show you all of these different features and you can decide for yourself who makes more sense." That video is unfortunately three hours long because 90 minutes of it is me going through the audio and they're talking about something, and then I bring up visuals. So you don't have to be an expert in any of this to examine that with discernment and decide for yourself who makes more sense? But when you see the actual report it's a joke."

51:48 Fair enough. So it's not so much that the data told us anything conclusive, but it's more about the behavior of these guys that was telling to you because it was so And then they started insinuating that I might be in it for the money. And they're talking about the Dunning-Kruger effect, and they're talking about cherry picking and they're talking about all of these supposed mistakes that I had made as I approached this topic. It was very clear they hadn't even bothered to watch any of my videos on the subject before contacting me because I had addressed every one of those things from the very first video I made on the subject."

52:26 And I had visual evidence for everything that I was talking about. So it was really a disappointment. Oh, and then the follow up was this guy he titles of video Paradigm Crushed like uses the same title as mine. Gotcha! It's a three hour video and it's him standing in a field wearing a white lab coat with his cane, talking in a southern drawl and just mocking me. And it's one logical fallacy after another. He doesn't address any of the data or any of the things that I brought up in the video. It's 15 minutes long sitting with a buddy in a field on two like folding chairs and they're just basically laughing about

53:12 about how stupid I was and how I could arrive at these conclusions. Frustrating, it's like look just cut open the fucking rock! Cut open the goddamn rock and let's look at it Yeah well I thought they were going to do spectroscopy that was a whole reason I sent the rocks off or at least some other forms of analysis so I can start to find out what are constituent elements that are comprising these stones. And so instead, all I got was a story and a survey which I'll show in a little bit. So you clearly know a little bit about the heart and I've seen you talk about this before

53:50 It's not just that the outside looks like a heart, the actual connection points are all where they should be. It looks like a Frankenstein stitch down the side but this is how our heart is pieced together and so when you look at it in rock formation that's what you see. Fossilization is not controversial! My dad used to have a little fossil of a fish on his desk That's basically very adjacent to what we're talking about. It's not really considered odd at all, we're just talking about the speed in which this happens and that it might happen in other ways than were told

54:26 And we're going to get deeper into this, but you know, to kind of cap out this first hour and then towards the end of the thing. I think the best way to do it is talk about a couple questions I have about the book just so they can be kind of bookended onto the first hour. So people can hear that too. But I guess just...I want to know what are your big questions left with this material? And how do you fold the implications of all these things into your big picture of reality in the past and what this world is? Well, if we're not in some kind of a simulation matrix. I operate under the belief that there's a physical reality and then there's this

55:09 artificial overlay that we get through our black mirrors in the form of brainwashing and programming. So I think that we live in a creative realm, not coming at it from a Christian perspective at all but I do believe that the fingerprints of the creator can be found everywhere if you just have the eyes to see them And we've been blinded to that obvious fact, you know. The geometry that exists throughout everything is like we're told that this all happened through random chance, that there's a big bang things bump around and then as Rob Skiba once said We go from goo to you by way of the zoo. And that's what they want us to believe with all these theories of evolution and, obviously adaptation takes place but evolution as a theory has a lot of holes in it. Well let me say my theory for reality and I still don't know anything to be true but many different books and researchers and cosmologies from all over seem to overlap in this idea that there is higher realm

56:14 symbols and archetypes and spirits an angel some kind of like a theory or forms. And if there is no place where really our consciousness is actually likely to be broadcasted from and it's all projected down here in an illusionary physical realm that feels deceptively solid and real That's what a range of sources seem to suggest. And if that's true, then really nothing is off the table there really aren't like solid eternal physical laws that can never be violated. Maybe Titans did walk the earth I guess. How many myths start with John

56:49 giant animals or beings of some kind. What I've been told is that the earliest rituals, my buddy Gordon White big into magic he says the earliest religious rites and rituals were done to a snake god that they just imagined formed the physical world and a lot of times you know you're talking about a spirit form You're talking about like mother ayahuasca appears as a snake And I think, you know, some people might say while you're literalizing something. But the story goes back thousands and thousands of years. So what conclusions can we make about it? I'm just saying that there are stories about giant creatures and Quetzalcoatl type things, you know, feathered serpents and all sorts of things maybe there's a

57:37 a way in which they were real, maybe the configuration of the earth was completely different or whatever this thing is. That's not even controversial! They say dinosaurs walked the earth they couldn't live today because why? The environment was fucking different that's what the mainstream will tell you so let's just scale that up or adjust it slightly and things that sound mystical and impossible actually don't anymore Well, the mainstream narrative when it comes to Titans is they couldn't have existed because they would have such a gravitational pull because of their mass. They would collapse under their own weight but that assumes that what we've been taught about gravity is true and that the Einsteinian gravity that we have which was superseded by Newtonian gravity of mass attracting mass

58:24 And now is a warpy, bendy space-time continuum that was hypothesized by Einstein and many have concluded that it's never actually been proven to be true. Our whole entire cosmological model is based on all of that And so they say that that's why these trees couldn't have existed even though the remnants of them are everywhere, but we've been blinded to the truth of that. In my opinion it is self-evident when you see it and if you know what a tree looks like and see a tree break down in the forest the qualities that the tree exhibits and how it looks when it starts to become the forest floor instead of a tree, and all the stages in between. All of that can be seen but on a far greater scale so there's so much there to examine but we've been blinded

59:17 to the potential truth of it. And I think that's all by design, you mentioned magic and wizards. Ultimately we live in a realm that is being run by dark magicians and they've convinced everyone that magic isn't real and because they turn us into muggles that way, right? If you don't believe in magic. You know, you're not gonna be able to do it. I've seen children that can read blindfolded play chess catch, you know, do all kinds of stuff with my own eyes on more than one occasion there are people teaching children how to do this now

59:55 It's undeniable what they're able to do. So we have faculties that we haven't even begun to unlock because we've all been dumbed down about the nature of our reality. Yes, well said I do agree with you there so let me ask a little more about the trees because the trees are one of the things that is still like a head scratcher to me i kind of can't really accept it i can acknowledge that Stump looks like a tree stump. Sure, and I also can acknowledge that for most of human history we couldn't see the top of this stump and now we can with drones and stuff And when you go up there and look at it from the top down It has rings Like a tree would have rings

1:00:36 and then you go to the conventional geological explanation of how such things would form, and they would say that it would be layering. Well, layering is... Those are horizontal lines not circumference rings. Yeah exactly right one excludes the other yeah that is odd but that to me is just a question mark but it's not enough for me to say well these were trees because My remaining questions are, well where is the rest of the tree? Of course I know you've brought that up. And then my other thing would be like well why can't we just get down to the root structure? Why don't we just look at what's under this thing whether it's ground penetrating radar or something like that if we have cave systems down there where the roots have kind of gone away and left cavities and they match the structure of a tree Well now i'm a little more compelled

1:01:30 but i just it just like you said like well the question start to come up who cut this tree down what happened to the tree where is the trunk, was paul bunyan real possible debate the blue ox carried off somewhere how do you wrestle with those things cuz u look at that they look at this time here like that looks like a tree stump You know, make a better case than that for me. Oh I can definitely do that but it's a visual thing so should i start sharing a screen here? Yes let's do it! So lets say we're in the plus show and lets say that we tried this before we started and when uh...I talk there is a big echo so im just gonna shut up and you do your thing okay so you know just to give some visuals for what you were talking about um..lets see there we go

1:02:18 The No Forests on Earth, the Geology Revived. These are the different ones that I mentioned before and then this is what we're talking about when it comes to these tabletop mountains that exist all over the place. Oftentimes they'll have these never-ending waterfalls coming from the top that can't be explained with rainfall And so some of them have flat tops and others look like, you know tree that just got broken off. And then you can see root structures and these are just one data point. And that's Jagertha which is the one you know that's what you were just referring to with the concentric rings

1:02:58 And, you know it begs the question who cut them down if they were cut down and I made a video called felling titanic trees where i just posit what if they were using something as primitive as a diamond rope saw. You know it doesn't have to be some kind of advanced alien technology or lasers or something like that to account for the trees being brought down. And the Bible, or the book of Jasher I don't remember they talk about how the angels went to work at the trees and they brought them down prior to The Great Flood because God didn't want the corrupted beings to be able to flee The Flood

1:03:37 So that was apparently the purpose for bringing them down according to the biblical narrative. Now we got Paul Bunyan and Medusa, this is what I was talking about before all these different photographs that are being shown by people that they see this as unequivocal proof that this is once a face, this is once a foot etc., and I challenge and there's not much in the way of follow-up. So a place like this would be interesting to follow up because you have those eye sockets there that you could get into and examine, see if there is anything that is resembling the anatomy that should be there, if it were indeed an eye socket

1:04:19 So this is the Petrified Titans video that I was talking about, that J. Dreamer's made and showing this elephant you see my cursor when I'm moving my cursor? Yes Okay And so this is You know The idea that space-time is bending and we have this thing called the square cube law and as you double the dynamiter of something The volume scales exponentially which would give you you know, gravitational pull that would be so great that the bones wouldn't be able to support it. So that's the that's the official story. So I've been looking at all of these subjects for last 10 years roughly and what i what i find is there some truth to all of them but people get hung up on their favorite theories and they run with those and then they start excluding all the other ones and then you get all this squabbling and you know questions about

1:05:14 the nature of reality and people arguing about it. So I think ultimately what we need to be doing is this sort of thing, cross-disciplinary field research where we're examining the things and looking at where are the connecting points? And we need to be aware of these kinds of things which I've already talked about. Peridolia, apothania is the same as peridolia but when you recognize... It's when you recognize a pattern that doesn't actually exist And the cherry picking is what they would claim I've done with the heart stones. Dunning-Kruger effect is when you think, you know a lot about something but you've only just begun to look into it. So these are the kinds of pitfalls but I'm a big fan of proper application and scientific method when it's not being used with logical fallacies which seems to be pretty common in this day and age talked about

1:06:07 the heliocentric model and this becomes the justification for our Earth timelines where we talk about the Earth being four plus billion years old, and these great dyings off that occurred. The mass extinctions which we talked about, the last of them being the dinosaurs. And this is the sedimentary layering model. And you can see these numbers are getting very large, the further down you go 400-500 million years. So we talked about the cycle of petrogenesis and that's how they say that all of these structures came about. Now we get to Devil's Tower and

1:06:55 looks a heck of a lot like a tree stump, might not be. But all of the mainstream theories are that this is lava that got pushed up. The Earth used to be up here 50 million years ago and then there was some kind of rapid cooling event that caused the lava to expand as it cooled and that is where we get those honeycomb columns from which I'll show photos in a moment So the ancients had a completely different view. They talked oftentimes about the world tree, the cosmic egg theories... There's all sorts of continents that are missing now on our current maps that used to be on the older maps

1:07:32 And then we get a lot of truth drops in Hollywood, in the form of giant trees and avatar. I think that this may just be speaking to something inside the collective unconscious where we actually have memories of this time in the past that once existed And so there are a number of terms that have been used, the plasma apocalypse. The EMCO event, the electromagnetic plasma changeover event it's been referred to as the Phoenix event and I think when it comes to Phoenix and Medusa we're probably talking about anthropomorphizations

1:08:12 a plasma event that they're giving human qualities and that's what is surviving in our legends. And maybe if this information is being actively suppressed, then maybe it's through story and legend that they're able to keep it alive. But this is lava. This is what it does. It never makes a straight line ever. It's all amorphous and just kind of globular and flowing around. Then we're told that this has been formed from that And that's a great story, but they can't actually show it happening because it happened millions of years ago. They can't reproduce it in any kind of laboratory experiment and if you just look at it, it kind of defies the narrative in my opinion You have this honeycomb pattern and then even have a greater honeycomb pattern This is exactly how different kinds of plant life

1:09:04 form. They have these fractal-like patterns to their fibers, and even if you bought the cooling lava narrative how do you explain something like this where it's just a diagonal straight line? Couldn't have been formed by glacier because this bit is over here untouched so it's just lots of things that make you go hmm additional data points right? You get this swirling that fibers do this And even if you buy that in the mainstream narrative, I'm going to show a whole bunch of stuff now that makes it really hard to buy that narrative. Like how does this come about from some rapid cooling? That looks far more biological than geological in my opinion and here's another example of the hexagonal columns but look! It has got these circles in the center How does that come about through rapid cooling lava? Doesn't make any sense But even if you think it does explain this to me

1:10:02 Like these are, I'm going to show places all over the world that and these pictures of pre AI. I gathered these years ago and they've been in many of my presentations so it's not just me. pulling fun photographs out of the AI engines. So this has a very biological look to it, you know? It looks like cellular and blood and is it I don't know but you know it's something to ponder and I'll show video of that site in a moment These are called concretions and they'll have their mainstream narratives for how these form, but is it possible that maybe this has formed through some kind of plasma event or these are seeds of a great tree? There's a lot of different possibilities but I'm not attached to any of them. I'm just looking at it as information and then if you look at all this micro layering and you see how its swirling

1:10:57 And going up into this area that almost looks like a cell structure and continuing in, I can't even begin to imagine how that formed. But what I can tell you is it didn't form through dead animal and plant life laying down over millions of years of time. It just doesn't make any sense. This is white pocket in, I believe Arizona. And again, it has a very, very biological look to it And sometimes things look like things and other times they don't. But this is the sedimentary layering, and then this is what I was talking about before this happened in three hours when Mount St Helens erupted

1:11:45 And as the grains were being propelled over the surface in a slurry, do you hear the sound? Yes. Actually I was just going to say that I already took a note that I wanted to make sure I included this even if it had to be in my wrap up or something because I find this to be really compelling to have a geologist expert having his paradigm blown live in this footage flurry, but particles separated course and fine into thin layers I had thought that a catastrophe would mix up all of the particles and make a homogenized deposit. Boy, was I wrong! Right here, a pyroclastic flow moving at freeway speed or higher can separate particles into coarse and fine so layering doesn't require millions of years thousands of years or even hundreds of years it can form rapidly in this slurry flow process So Mount St Helens tells us something really interesting about how rapidly strata conform

1:12:38 There's even micro-fin lamination in this deposit. It's remarkable." Right, so even petrified trees as well... So let's jump to the book! And I'll piece this into both parts of the show. So we don't have to go too deep into the book though, it is full of fun things I highlighted and would enjoy talking to you about probably not really even the best material for this show now maybe resonant with this audience but more just interesting stuff regardless when you were sentenced You were given a couple of weeks of jail time, a year probation and mandatory community service where you are tasked with helping the national coalition for children's justice to build a network and database to track and catch child traffickers. And abusers here's a quote from your book about

1:13:32 The conversation you had with the organization's founder, Ken Wooden. Without going into graphic detail, Ken told me the horror stories of child slavery, satanic cults and hideous rituals involving children. He continued most of the children who go missing are never found many suffer horrible abuse at the hands of sinister people Tragically, most of these crimes go unreported and despite our countless attempts to grab their attention the media remains almost entirely silent. Why won't they do anything about it? You asked. It's hard to say, Michael. It might be because some of these crimes involved individuals in powerful positions who like things the way they are. We do our best to expose these horrors but all too often we're ignored by those with the power to do something about it. I'm certain more of these children can be found and this is where you might be able to help. You see, I believe that the creation of a nationwide network for tracking missing children would be the perfect tool in the fight

1:14:30 When Ken first told me of the horrors perpetrated on children worldwide, I must admit it sounded far-fetched. Satanists and government and secret organizations kidnapping and using children for horrific rituals? It seemed more like the makings of a Hollywood movie! But in decades since, Ken's information has shown itself to be highly accurate and sadly far more widespread than most can imagine. Ken was decades ahead of his time." Oh, wow. This is not the main thrust of the book but it is relevant to your story and yeah... Nitty gritty! Well you know that's my thing so... It was the quintessential conspiracy podcast. Yeah well I mean I don't know about that but anyway

1:15:12 You said it, not me. But a lot has been exposed since that time from the Founders' Cult and the Franklin scandal to Nexium and of course Epstein but can you elaborate on any of the things that Ken might have told you that stuck out? Maybe things that are less known about? Yeah well one of the things that was happening back then is they were very organized. They were using bulletin boards to communicate and share information with each other just like the hackers were And, you know, computer hobbyists in general. The BBSs of the 80's was kind of our first wave of internet for the individual and that was where I gleaned a lot of information from the bulletin boards and party lines we would do conference calling making use of it service called Alliance Teleconferencing which we knew how to gain. The people that were capturing and trafficking

1:16:06 children, they were making use of these systems as well. So initially when Kenneth Wooden reached out to the judge he saw me on television his friend was George Gallop of the Gallup polls and George saw me coming out of the courtroom the arraignment, which was very big news. It hit the newspapers across the country and so when that happened he called up Ken and said I've got an idea you've been talking about wanting to create this network uh you know to try and track missing children because up until that point apart from putting their faces on on milk cartons and some sort of an MKUltra mind control, kind of a fear porn thing for children. Get your cereal in the morning and worry about getting kidnapped." I'm glad you said that because that's how I think of it too. It's like you got to expose this stuff somehow but I always had a weird feeling about that too that it was kind of a fear-based thing. Yeah but there was no interstate cooperation in the country at that time if you took the child across

1:17:09 the border to another state, it was basically yours. They weren't going to chase it down." That was what he was trying to get around and improve upon so you didn't have the funds to put together some massive network. And so he and George Gallup had this idea of what if we started to use the skills of young hackers who are good guys, but have run amok of the law and utilize their skills to build this network? That was

1:17:46 how that whole thing began and I pulled in a couple of my hacking buddies, one of whom showed up on the radar on October 17th. First time I talked to him in years and years and it happened be the 40-year anniversary of my bust. I was busted on October 17th 1985 so synchronicity is you know followed me a lot through all this stuff but Yeah, so he was a real vanguard. And he wrote a book called Child Lures Crying in the Playtime of Others and was the founder of this coalition for children's justice and spent a lot of years educating in schools and trying to teach parents what the warning signs were and how to avoid your child being one of the victims of that sort of thing.

1:18:39 And then he told me about the SRA and... satanic ritual abuse and these other things. And so that was a bit of, you know, red pill for me at 19 years old and in the decades since it's all come to light. You see what the royal families with the prince and the Vatican and all that was revealed for what they were doing tens of thousands of priests horrible things and just being shuffled around. And you've got the Epstein thing, Nixxiom and all this stuff it's like okay well he was right! I mean yeah i am just curious primarily about when it's ritualized or when it involves dark magic or something that is not just

1:19:33 Oh, I'm attracted to children. So I steal them and abuse them for my sexual pleasure that's obviously sick and gross but it's way more bizarre and complex to think that there is a power attained by doing something like this that isn't about getting off its more about harnessing human sacrifice I very much believe that's happening on a widespread basis in the upper echelons of power. There's just so much evidence to prove it and yeah, this is a little...I took it out of the book but there was a section in the book that I had originally. It was about Aaron Schwartz. Are you familiar with him? A little bit. Aaron Schwartz, is he the Reddit guy? Yeah

1:20:16 Yeah, there's a documentary about his life called, well it was probably several but The Internet's Own Boy. And he was a real champion of the decentralization that was one of the tenets of the hacker philosophy right? Distrust of government Information should be free, decentralization so that power can't be consolidated in the hands of the few. The idea that we can use technology to better our lives and improve our plight here when it's not being used for nefarious means and for control purposes

1:20:52 So these are kind of the hacking ethics, you know which are applicable to what we would call the truther community in today's world. Aaron Schwartz was really a champion of those ideas and wrote texts on them and so he was busted for going into MIT Media Labs, which interestingly enough ties directly to Bill Gates and Epstein in a very big way. Oh I didn't know that! Yeah they were funding and they were deeply involved in stuff that was going on there. And he was down in one of the server rooms and he basically liberated 2.3 million articles that were in JSTOR which is like

1:21:40 You've got PubMed and Elsevier, and then you have JSTOR which are like the big repositories of research that are found around the world. But everything's behind a paywall so if you're like a genius kid in a third-world country, you're not going to have access to any of the latest research because you gotta pay for it right? So he thought that was fundamentally wrong. If information should be free if something can be used for the betterment of humanity patented, capitalized upon and then feed into the greed matrix which is exactly what we live in now. So he was a real hero in my opinion, a hacker from heaven I would call him and that was actually the name of the program that Kenneth Wooden

1:22:26 founded that I was part of was hackers from heaven. And there's chapters in the book about that, that's what you're reading there. But when when Schwartz went in he downloaded all these articles but there were people that were theorizing because he supposedly committed suicide which is very very odd the timing of it and you know he looked like he could potentially get off or get off with a lot less but they say that he killed himself And I don't believe it for a second. But interestingly, there's people who have talked about because he was connected to fiber optic and you know text files don't take that long to download the movie or several movies that's a different thing so some people are hypothesizing that maybe the reason he died is because he was accessing a whole bunch of other information that was probably video

1:23:20 And so, you know it's a speculation but I wouldn't be surprised because I don't believe that he or Epstein killed himself. Oh actually the...I just watched your last episode with McAfee wife Aaron liberated, to use the term that I'm aware of. It was like a repository of data that any student could access so it was just gate kept to students or you were part of a research institution or a government facility. So again, it's gatekeeping of knowledge. Exactly. So I really don't think it's that big of a deal that it was exposed but then yeah, I never really thought much about

1:24:23 until you said it, the idea that maybe there was some dark Compromat or some of these dark Epstein adjacent things and he got it. And so they were like well you can't live knowing that or having that man. It's a possibility and all the weird stuff on his ranch with the cloning and these things A lot of information has come out about that stuff and yeah, the connection. And also I think the lab director, MIT Media Lab Director was forced to resign under controversial circumstances so... Let me ask you about McAfee just because there's a lot of weird stuff there having read the book, we're at ground zero with this phone freaking and I actually like these stories where

1:25:13 hacking had a little more physicality to it or a little more mechanical nature to like what you were doing. There's a really interesting story about this guy, Captain Crunch who basically discovered that when he I might be mixing two stories but somebody whistled and then they realized that the phone had an effect so then In some cases, you just call the company and you say what happened here? And they explain it to you. And then it's exploited. So he found out that the captain crunch whistle that came in a cereal box made a certain tone that triggered the phone to allow for a free long distance call or something adjacent to that. It was a bit more complicated than that, it was the tone was 2600 Hertz and there's actually been in law long standing publication called That That's A Hacker Magazine and then there's another one that was called shoot what is it? Frack which is like freaking and hacking combined yeah frack episode four talks about me and my bust

1:26:15 But 2600 hertz, if you blew that tone it would knock the operator off of her trunk. So she would think the line got disconnected and then if you had the ability to create multi frequency tones that were the same tones being used by the network Then if you had the skills and you knew how to do it, you could do anything the telephone operator could do. And she had no idea because she was just on her next call. So there were these things called blue boxes and red boxes and lots of other colored boxes. The Blue Box was the most famous of them because that was creating these tones That's how Apple got started. Steve Jobs and Wozniak were creating the first digital version of those, so they brought the size down and the price was affordable. And so they made a lot of money selling those just at the point where they were probably about to get busted for fraud or facilitating fraud. They left it behind. They used that money to found Apple

1:27:12 That's so crazy. That's their story, who knows if it's true or not? But you're also very clear in the book... I know we're going to talk about McAfee but you were also very clear in the book about your disdain for Bill Gates and just because you were giving The Hacker ethos, I also wanted to point out how instrumental he was in kind of breaking all that up and like being the one to be like no, we got to prioritize this stuff and we've got to patent it And once one person does that, I mean other people start to follow suit because like it kind of becomes like a race to the bottom or a race to centralized compromised capital and all this kind of thing. But he was so key in that and of course he doesn't know a whole lot about computers from my understanding it was really his mom who worked for MIT who basically mobilized the students at MIT she said hey whoever can help my son with

1:28:07 little computer company in the garage is gonna get an a plus or whatever the hell, you know? Uh, and so really it was a group think effort from MIT that propelled this figurehead to basically destroy that hacker ethos and destroyed that spirit of the early internet. That was just so crucial And I just wanted to point that out, but McAfee. I want to know your thoughts. One of the thoughts i'm curious about is there's a premise that he might have created the virus itself? That there might not have been a need for McAfee software at all

1:28:43 I mean, we eventually arrived at viruses but he did the problem reaction solution template and you know he's a bit of a prankster. I wouldn't put it past him but give me your general thoughts on McAfee if you heard that interview any thoughts that came up? Well i'll talk about Gates first. You know first of all the most successful eugenicist family in history I would say I don't think he's a good man at all. And had I known the things that I know about him, now back then I probably would have gotten in more trouble because I would have been like trying to take down the Death Star you know? I think he's scum really the things that he's done in this world and yeah, I'd tell him to his face if I met him hope I never do. You don't want to go to jail again! Well...

1:29:33 Definitely not happening. I'm hacking reality now instead of computers, so yeah what else? So McAfee...I actually learned a lot listening to that episode. I didn't know the details of his disappearance and death and i didn't realize he was in Barcelona at the time but yeah I kind of stepped away from tech for a lot of years. I actually ended up going to work at IBM in 2000 which is funny because I was hired as a tech writer and they didn't, I was an exchange student in Italy in 97-98. And they...I moved back to Italy after I was done and ended up working for a year at IBM and they had no idea that I was a hacker and I didn't disclose so but

1:30:20 Yeah, I'm a dinosaur when it comes to the tech. I've left it all behind so wouldn't get in trouble with it now yeah, I Really wish that McAfee episode had made more of an impact not even out of an ego reason or anything like that But just her being so candid I wanted more to happen for her because she really was trying to make the point that A lot of people gave up on The Dead Man's Switch Because it's just probably too complex. And I think she was trying to say like, no, if you go back to his tweets at the time which she was transcribing there's a lot of breadcrumbs and clues and that the data is somehow attached or compartmentalized within the whacked token. I mean, the guy got a goddamn tattoo of it on his arm. It was clearly important. And if you were trying to figure out how you would distribute

1:31:18 blackmail material or a compromise folder, a dead man switch. It would have to be extremely decentralized and you wouldn't want to put anyone you knew at risk so if you launched a cryptocurrency token And somehow in it was a countdown. People have acknowledged that there was a countdown, count down to what we don't know. Was it actually compromised? Some people think that the bad guys got in there and stopped at somehow but Janice doesn't think so she thinks that it's still available to those willing not give up and I mean wouldn't want to find it you know what happens to those people I don't wanna get Aaron Schwartz but

1:31:59 Apparently it's out there. She seemed pretty genuine and authentic, and she was very forthright in all of the questions that you raised and she provided a lot of additional information. She didn't strike me as somebody that was trying to sidestep things, and she seemed genuinely interested in solving it and doesn't believe that he was killed but she also didn't believe that he is still alive because I think that was an interesting point. He was a very unusual character, so his hubris being too big to go all of these years without surfacing in some way that would give clues. So it seems like he's gone and hopefully there is a dead man switch. The whole hackers from heaven idea for me is

1:32:46 Robert Steele, I believe his name is. He was a former CIA agent. Oh yeah! He's been here too. Oh yes? He once described computer hackers as the minute men of the digital era and I thought that was really good idea you know that that when the totalitarian nightmare system is rolled out, how is that going to be stopped? And in the end it's going to be your weaponized autists or these people who are super genius computer kinds of people who might be able to take you down. It's the Neo and Matrix sort of a thing so maybe there is hope even as digital IDs

1:33:27 The agendas, this that and the other are rolled out seemingly without pause. Maybe in the end it'll be some genius behind a keyboard that throws a monkey wrench in the watch works. Yeah I'm with you there so another thing I wanted to ask you about related to the book Is Gary McKinnon. So he wrote not only the forward, somewhat of a forward, but also a nice blurb I'll just read here. He says whether you're a technophile or truth seeker or simply drawn to stories of defiance and redemption Wilkerson's journey will leave a mark

1:34:06 It reminds us that sometimes the one society cast out as threats are in fact, the most necessary mirrors and it's most unlikely heroes. Kind words I actually reached out to Gary maybe five or six years ago and tried to get an interview with him. And he's like, I can't talk about any of that stuff anymore. And I know he had a CEO or an SEO business. And if I would have been further down chain, I would have hired Gary McKinnon to do the SEO for the higher side chats because that would've just been so fricking cool but I didn't have it at the time. Anyway, the reason I want to ask you about him is obviously because you're operating in a certain kind of mental paradigm about what reality is and it's almost in conflict with what he says he saw on those computers. Of course, it's secret space program stuff, non-terrestrial astronauts, space platforms, UFOs alternative energy. I hesitate to get too specific

1:35:05 because I tried to do a little digging before this ran out of time. was real. And I think during the disclosure project, if I remember his quote he did say that he had confirmation of the things he was curious about UFO's and alternative energy but how does this jive with where you are in your model of reality? Do you think about it at all? I think you trust Gary and what he saw. Yeah. I believe that he is telling the truth about what he saw um, and I don't necessarily think

1:35:48 His observations are in conflict with my world view. I mean we talk about extraterrestrials Well if there are outer realms That's extra terrestrial, right? So I think that the different aliens, you know all the UFO people the ancient aliens and all that kind of stuff and The greys and the tall thin ones and all these different species that they're constantly talking about. I Have no problem with those those beings actually existing they could exist within a hollow earth They could exist underwater non-terrestrial could be in the water, right? So there's all kinds of things that you don't have to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to that kind of stuff. But there are a lot of problems that I have with the heliocentric model and and spinning ball when it comes to the things that Gary was seeing he saw photographs that took him forever to download because the file sizes were so large of what appeared to be craft. I've no problem with

1:36:51 Have you seen those alien craft? No, I've never seen them. Okay, I don't know if he still has them probably not but the Ben has covered this, Analog has covered this extensively like the dirigibles and all the aircraft. Clearly all kinds of technologies have been hidden and sequestered and some are trickled out to us as new innovation but are actually just recycling of old stuff that you can see pictures in the publications from 100 years ago.

1:37:27 When it comes to aliens flying around in the sky or anti-gravity devices and all that, you don't have to have a heliocentric model to still be able to accommodate for those things. To me it was ... The thing that always stuck out was space platform and I don't know that he ever said that but it is the thing that's stuck in my brain when I think about this story but what do you think of the ISS? Do you think that's real? No. I've seen no evidence that it's real. There is so much fakery, harness fails, bubbles in space, CGI layering glitches, hairspray...

1:38:05 You name it, there's no footage of the greatest construction in history being constructed. It's just in this magic Goldilocks zone that's based on Einsteinian gravity which I also don't believe in. Well you had Mark Gober on and Eric Dubé. And Eric Dubé and I would recommend you get Stephen Young on he is an amazing author. Oh Australian guy? No, no. He's Scottish and he's written a book called A Fool's Wisdom. He has a PhD in nuclear physics and quantum physics and has basically jumped ship with all of those theories because he's come to the conclusion that they're all based on pseudoscience which I'm in agreement with so is Mark Gober

1:38:52 So as far as the ISS goes, you know there's and whenever they show the supposed live feed. There's always too much curvature based on their distance so they're clearly using a fisheye lens. It could just be a high-flying military craft And Google Earth, they're just taking strips and stitching them together. And they can easily map that around a ball. Well I've obviously thought about this stuff too and the ISS is the one kind of sticking point that I can't really get around to. I mean I'm good friends with someone who goes by Robot Polisher online his name is not known but I am the one who told him about the flat earth and he just went off

1:39:31 freaking rails making this content. He's great, he doesn't even talk you know he does not talk he just uses their clips and puts them together and is like does this look legit to you? And again all that stuff your talking about the hair sprayed hair and the bubbles, the suggestions that it seems like a lot of that's filmed underwater. But there is a thing... There is a dot in the sky that goes around they say as the ISS and you can see it and you can geolocate it And that's one thing but here's the thing that's crazy to me I guess my belief is like so what happens up there? Is there a point where things do float because my wife and I were sitting out here outside in Florida and we saw

1:40:15 This crazy, it looked like a dragon of dots through the sky. And we're like what the hell is that? And then it's like, well that's supposed to be Starlink Well what is Starlink because I saw it... Like one dot looks like a star So the ISS you're like, well I don't know maybe that isn't technological But to see Starlink up there and have previously doubted satellites at all and you get into the temperatures that are supposed to exist up there, and all this stuff should burn up and not work. What the hell? How could it work?" We could literally talk for hours about this subject. If you think of the ISS, the size of the ISS is said to be roughly a football field. So if you think about how big is Boeing 747, that's roughly the same size right

1:41:03 Well, at 35 000 feet cruising altitude it's pretty tiny. If you double the distance to an object it's one quarter the size works light as well. It's the inverse square law of light like every time you double the distance it's going to be 1 quarter, the intensity if you have the distance is four times as intense. Well that optics work the same way right? So it should not be visible at 253 miles or whatever they say they're hovering at because at 35000 feet how far is that how many miles with that I don't know But it's not very many miles, right? So you double that. You double that again and you double that again. There is no reason we should be able to see something

1:41:47 the size of a football field at that distance, unless you have powerful optics. Right? It is actually 6.6 miles at 35 thousand feet. So double that 12 double that 24 double that 48. That's a lot of doubling right and that means it's got to be one quarter of the size each time you double it And if I were to just quickly look How high up is Starlink? That's a little bit harder. I'm not sure about Starlink, but the ISS is something like 250 miles. Oh it actually says the operational range for Starlinks satellites is between 340 to 600 kilometers or 211 to 382 miles so its supposed to be roughly 300 miles compared to 6 miles up but I saw it and these are supposed to be smaller!

1:42:40 No, so now that's weird. The ISS is supposed to be six... I could bring up so many weird things! Right? The eye-I can't do that hand sign people are going to get me uh too late yeah i know um six miles up for the ISS and then 300 miles up for Starlink. Starlink is a much smaller set of satellites. I'm just like, I know what I saw in the sky and I just want to know how they did it. I'm not saying it's the conclusive smoking gun that heliocentrism is real, but I'm curious in this alternative paradigm how they did it. How could exactly... Because it looked very strange anyone who's seen Starlink would probably say it looks like a serpent of lights going through the sky No footage of ISS construction no telemetry data

1:43:30 14,000 reels gone missing. I'd like to do a shout out to my best friend Alex Michael. Are you familiar with Conspiracy Music Guru? No! No?! Conspiracy Music Guru... I feel like this is something... Conspiracy Music Guru... I feel like he has come uh- He has been presented to me or recommended to me before but i haven't really gone into it. He's the conspiracy music guru who can play any style of music and he's just He's got, I told you so television watching news believer. He's got a whole album about NASA fakery and it's all the lyrics are amazing and the quality of the production he is... You should have him on. He would be an awesome guy to interview. You would have a lot of fun guaranteeing it. Well, you gave me a couple recommendations. I only do five shows a month. You just filled almost a month for me.

1:44:24 I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind talking to Ken too if he's still around and. I know he's still around Kenneth Wooden? Yeah. Uh, he passed away a few years ago unfortunately lived it. He lived through his eighties. He sent me a photograph when he turned 80, he went skydiving at 80 years old. It was, it was a cool guy but I did get an interview. I got to interview him and I haven't released it yet on my channel so I have footage talking with him at some point. I'll put that out. Oh, and you mentioned Gary McKinnon? Did you hear how that came about? No! He posted a comment on one of my YouTube videos and I didn't know if he knew about My Hacking Past or if he was there for the research and it turned out he didn't know anything about My Hacking. Wow

1:45:09 Wow. And so I sent him a little three minute promo video, maybe you could play that at the end for people who are interested in the book and it was like hey by the way did you know about this? He's like no we should talk! Yeah that is amazing We ended up having a conversation on Zoom call too actually and talked for about four or five hours at the very beginning of the first call, I was like you know this is going to be an interesting conversation. I'm sure...I'll bet there's a lot of people that would love to hear this should we just record it? He was like yeah go ahead! You know so uh So i put i put the first hour of that conversation up on my channel and it's called Hackers from Heaven Like I said two or maybe three lives all

1:45:51 Within one man, all more interesting than my own amazing. I will be the first obviously we're going close to three hours, but I'll be the first to humble up and apologize for my initial dismissal of the work and your channel Uh, something definitely is going on with all that. But I'm still not sure what to do with it, but I'm sure you plan to keep pushing on this? What are the next steps or our next parts of this ongoing investigation that she think you're going to pursue the, uh, a couple of, uh, I've, you mentioned Jerry Pollock. I was actually at the water conference and got to meet him again. I met him at confluence where he spoke and unfortunately he's

1:46:32 He's fallen ill. I think he is like not doing well, so a lot of people are praying for him. So... I did not know this! I just know that you told me he would give me an interview on December 6th and maybe i should assume that might not happen There's a good chance it might not. I have a friend who is close with him and I can ask her and mention that you had something scheduled, but I have the feeling that might not happen. I mean, I don't care about my own interview. I obviously care about his health but how interesting that a guy would fall ill? A guy of his stature right when he has a book coming out about anti-gravity and how it could all work

1:47:15 I mean he's applied his knowledge, his scientific brain. He's gone from the fourth phase of water to now a book about about anti-gravity and then he suddenly falls ill? I mean, people can get ill but like this pattern keeps repeating Mike. He was a really interesting person to talk with. I got to sit down with him couple times but there were a bunch of really high level scientists that were there and a couple of them have laboratories so unlike the runaround I got from the clowns in US that we mentioned before these guys are the real deal. So my hope is to do some spectroscopy with these stones and maybe some other things that I'm not aware of, that could be done to try and nail down better what the constituent components are because obviously if the periodic table is up for grabs then it makes a little trickier but

1:48:14 If there's a way to show that there's a correlation between fleshy hearts and the stones accounting for transmutation of elements, I'm not sure how to go about that. But it's tough unless I can figure out how to recreate them or something like that. It's hard to know other than what I've already been doing which is showing a very repeatable pattern that's highly specific, and they also look like hearts. Oh I forgot to mention that this guy who was the right-hand man of Gwasp that facilitated his first dissection. Oh, no I did mention he...I had a video call with him and I showed him these stones and he was blown away like this is an amazing discovery congratulations! And so he's not a geologist but it does happen to know a lot more about the heart than probably just about anybody out there So that's an interesting thing

1:49:11 Yeah so I just happened to go and look at my last email with Gerald Pollack, and he gave me a link to the book for free before we did an interview. The link is now defunct I think the book is out there though. The book is supposed to have come out in September, so I don't know if it is, if it is out there guys by the book support Gerald Pollack. I mean especially in this tough time that he's apparently having well a lot of this stuff about the heart and the circulatory system and you know, the discoveries of glass they also tie in with the fourth phase of water

1:49:48 because the blood is not being pushed through the circulatory system. It's being propelled, you could say and maybe functions more like a ram pump in the sense that the heart is actually like the metronome of the body where it's literally stopping blood flow not creating it. It's very far out subject and it changes our... Well, the heart has the biggest electromagnetic field on body far greater than the brain And it extends beyond the body and it's measurable. So, you know, we're talking about arc reactors inside of each and every one of us right? Like Iron Man's that it's truth in plain sight. We're all iron men and women just like a, the Tesseract and the black cube and like wire two are the biggest franchises Avengers and transformers all center around the black cuba cosmic space cube

1:50:42 AI thing. Well, and all the stuff from Ben Radium videos and so everything that's like green, like kryptonite and all these things like the super it's always green glowing. Sure sure it is kryptonite wow well we could do this all day man and I just wanted to throw out charged Gerald Pollack's book, obviously like you said electromagnetism it all has to do with electromagnetism. His book is called Charge the Unexpected Role of Electricity in the Workings of Nature ding-ding-ding he's right on it as he always has been and stellium 7 is your channel what's stellium?

1:51:19 It's an astrological term. My mom was an astrologer when I was growing up and so, I grew up with astrology and studied it a lot myself. And anytime you have three or more planets in a particular sign or a particular house it's called the stellium and it represents like a concentration of particular energies focusing on one particular thing. And I have five planet stellium in the seventh house Yeah, that's where it came from. What is the seventh house known for? It's all about relationships. It's ruled by Libra and relationship would be the big...

1:51:58 The big thing. So I'm looking at the relationships between things, right? Yes. Pattern recognitionist. I love it! Well this has been a real pleasure. Thanks for giving me an extra hour of your time just crazy anything else to leave people with? I don't know. Get the book, Stellium 7 is the YouTube channel? Yeah The Hacker Prince it is a fun read uh... It's page turner and had at least half-a-dozen different published authors who've read it who praise the writing style and you know it's very engaging have been told by number of people that reads like a movie its called The Hacker Prince A True Story because

1:52:38 all the stuff that's in it actually happened. And it, it's one of those truth is stranger than fiction kind of things. It's great for the 50 something year olds that are technophiles that you know have the nostalgia from that time period but a teenager would love it as well so I think everybody in between heck yeah and check out the channel and if you do go and sub please comment it's been algorithms like a lot of other channels and It's fun when there's engagement. Yes, I know about that stuff so very cool yeah it was a real pleasure thank you for taking the time and take care out there keep doing this awesome work man i'm changed i don't know how i'm gonna go back to regular life now i'm broken it's an honor to be invited and i've been listening to you off and on for years so it's uh it's fun to talk with you face-to-face right on i agree cheers man

1:53:41 Whoo, Lordy! Alright well that was a mean one Mr. Grinch we did it the long-awaited exploration of biogeology with the hacker prince himself Mike's delenium 7 Wilkerson probably one of the most requested guests I think that i've gotten in the last year or so and I think I also did a pretty good job explaining why I didn't try to make it happen sooner I also wanted to get into that stuff right out of the gate for other people who might have had similar skepticisms. Because when you hear Mike separate himself from those other folks, like maybe the mud fossil folks...

1:54:20 It just got me all that much more interested. I started to lean in more because he understands the skepticism and what a more appropriate framing for this stuff is, you just gotta really great way in general of approaching this very bizarre material I think i was just afraid to appear gullible or unserious but whatever you don't need to make it your new religion just to say damn there does seem to be something interesting here and i don't know what the implications really are and i don't want to deal with it. I'm just accepting the material for what it is And I also just wanted to reemphasize the original spirit of why I got into this stuff, which was more like hey here's a person with some very out there perspectives. Let's see how good an argument they make and try to understand why they think what they think. The old quote you know it's the mark of educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it something like that

1:55:21 We just want to get inside the head of the guests and get into their ideas and let the listeners decide where the value is. I don't necessarily want to be the arbiter of what ideas are worthwhile, which ones aren't any more than just through guest selection itself so my first priority is getting back to presenting interesting bizarre unique worldviews & research And not so much trying to say, hey here are the exact answers in the back of the book a life. Of course for something to be compelling it has to have some believability to it or then it is just a waste of time. So obviously that is a factor

1:56:03 And after really exploring the stuff Mike does with an open mind, obviously it turned into something. And I just hope it is refreshing to see Mike here for those who follow us separately and I hope it's intellectually stimulating to those who either ignored this stuff before or have just now come across it maybe we all start finding heart stones on our paths so yeah structurally We did actually get almost an extra 40 minutes with Mike. The first hour is largely an introduction to biogeology and me trying to make sure we fit in the best arguments that resonated with me as I went along with the material

1:56:47 And then the plus show is largely a walkthrough of Mike's latest presentations. So it was a little redundant, but he's got his pitch down and he got all the best clips and put together everything so I just went with it if you want to get a taste of that and you aren't a plus member or you only have the audio then just go to his YouTube channel It is basically his AnarchoPoco adjacent conference presentation and you can see it right there And as we're going forward, I don't love having to be so conscious of the audio video split. I got a free plus split and now an audio video split but what can i do? I guess I could have split the difference and made plus ten dollars and given everybody everything just to simplify it. I guess some episodes are just gonna have to be more visual heavy and it is what it is.

1:57:44 People kind of have their own content preferences, whether it's a podcast app or a preference for watching. So the thought was again I've already talked about this but people don't want to pay for what they don't need but make it available for people who want it in a way that can still be independent of YouTube and all that and still provide video A plus show like this one makes me kind of second guess that decision to separate things and you know, makes me wonder if that was best. But with the video storage and streaming bandwidth costs it just has to be more than something that was folded into the $8 membership... Just the reality

1:58:27 I don't know. I'm always exploring options and i'm open to new ways of doing things but for now this was the best I could do coming out of the gate, I didn't expect The Studio thing to go south so fast either but here we are! The audience really is just too big to truly get an opinion from everyone So...I just try to do my best And at the end of the day This was a good interview where we structured the material well in a way that was clear and methodical. And that's all there is to it, I guess the rest is a little less important. The hacker print stuff I tried to fold into the free show too as you know it is a product he worked hard on and has put out there while the rest of the material is free

1:59:17 So, you know we do the promo thing and there are really some wild stories in that book. I will say we didn't talk about all of them Of course but one that sticks out to me is when he was a teenager Mike accepted a flight out to see this other guy who was big in the hacker scene And later on Mike found out that that guy had a reputation of flying out other hackers and not flying them home until they gave into his advances And Mike said the guy was pretty responsive to his no, but that's obviously a precarious situation to be in. Mike is a calm man who has lived a wild life.

2:00:00 Other thing that sticks out with this one is that geologist clip talking about the sediment from the volcanic eruption. And that's just something that stuck out to me because you have these geologists learning in school, that these layers of rock are developed over millions of years and they sort of have to operate as if that's true it's really hard to contradict that and they have no reason too But then if you have a volcanic eruption and you can study it in real time, then this guy is like wow. This actually can happen very rapidly. This is pretty earth shattering for our geological assumptions! That's just the sort of thing we should all pay attention to I don't ever want to completely disrespect the years of study that people put into their areas of interest or blame them for assuming what they're teachers taught is true

2:00:58 But it's moments like that clip where you just feel like that guy spent a lot of time building his knowledge up on an incorrect foundation. Which is kind of sad because life is so short, not that all my time is well-spent but this is just the kind of thing we have talked about quite a bit A person goes deep into debt to become an expert in a field, their expertise and understanding of said field. And the sacred facts gets them a position in that field for a career, their income and ability to pay the debt largely becomes dependent on their participation in the perpetuation of the field status quo. Huh?

2:01:47 It's a frustrating pattern, but luckily we find a lot of great people who have found ways to follow what they consider to be the truth even when it conflicts with that pattern. That is kind of a catch 22 because when someone studies a field without that training then they are considered easier to dismiss because they don't have it. But sometimes that's what we need. Mike is capable of reading the same books outside the confines of a classroom, he's capable of educating himself on the same material independently without paying money or being scheduled to do that Tuesdays at 1pm... you know? A lot of things aren't as overwhelming and complex as you might think its just

2:02:38 tough to find the time to dive in and understand them. If you do that, then a self-directed education is not much different than an official one although they would obviously argue with that but that's how they make their money oh and Mike did send me the lab report that we talked about it's posted in The Show Notes he mentioned just one-sided nature of it, the whole tone is off. They definitely weren't coming in with an open mind and he mentions the company logo which is kind of an eye on the pyramid and their PO box number 322 With a debunking like this those things do stick out to me as well no coincidences as they say

2:03:25 Mike also added for me and also anyone interested in going deeper on this part of it, that if you don't want to watch the whole three hours of Paradigm Crushed. That video he made definitely check out the last half hour where it covers Aeon's connection to The Explorers Club because that is very interesting He says I also got to add that sadly he was very right about Dr Gerald Pollack I'm not sure where that conversation landed, but he mentioned that Dr. Pollack had had a very serious health incident and I've learned a bit more since then and that sadly seems to be very true My interview isn't going to happen And the prospect of rescheduling it is also not gonna happen anytime soon Send him your thoughts and prayers at least energetically

2:04:18 because I have not seen any public comment or notice about this and maybe they don't want it to be all that known just yet, but it is a thing sadly. And you can still think about the guy and hope for the best another person who turned their research towards alternative energy and anti-gravity and then suffered a debilitating health consequence in this case within 30 days of his book's release Now, Dr. Gerald Pollack is not exactly a young man but that's always gonna make me wonder... That is a pattern we've seen before and maybe I will try to tackle that book as another solo show so watch out for that in the next couple weeks

2:05:09 And become a plus member if you want the second hour of all my interviews and these solo presentations that I'm starting to do more of. They're fun! TheHigherSideChats.com links in the show notes, seven day free trial to start ya off It's the only income this show receives ad-free and action packed Okay So I am happy to have gotten this one out to you guys. I think it's far more exciting than the last one, but everyone has their own flavor of the conspiracy Kool-Aid that they like best. I just try to bring them all out to you often enough to keep everybody interested. But on that note, the last episode with Etienne de la Boete squared was pretty mixed. I think this will be mixed too but...

2:05:54 With that one, you have comments ranging from quote. This was the worst guest that has appeared on the program in a long time to another direct quote like another listener said we need six stars for this one. What am I supposed to do with you people? But I liked the range though it can be confusing to me sometimes when I put on the producer hat which is why that rating works best. The aggregate thoughts and opinions boil down to a single number, and for the Etienne show that number is 3.9. Not my favorite!

2:06:35 But I can appreciate that he came well prepared to make his points in a multimedia presentation and it's generated almost 100 comments so far. And I appreciate that Etienne is in there talking to plus people too, that's going the extra mile more guests have been doing that lately and this just a great thing to see. Uh, I think really the general audience here just likes us to be a bit more esoteric and out there Right. So that is what it is and as for the meetup calendar, the other thing we do in these here wrap ups let's see where two or three or more hopefully are gathering in my name December 13th LA at The Trails Cafe December 13 also London at The Rising Sun and also December 13 stroke on Trent United Kingdom

2:07:33 The Utrecht Inn, two United Kingdom meetups on the same day. Be there or be somewhere else January 3rd Gilbert Arizona at Desert Monks Brewing January 10th Raleigh North Carolina the Raleigh Brewing Company and January 16th Michigan City Indiana at the Bern Elm brewing brew house Good stuff. I like to see the calendar used, go forth and meet each other! Make an event if you're curious as to how it would go? No risk maybe all reward

2:08:11 So that is the show. Get a lot more as a plus member at TheHigherSideChats.com, check out the merch at TheHigherSideClothing.com and let our guests know you had a good time if ya did I've done my part Your move official truth deciders heartstone hiders and biogeology deniers your fucking move I see your face in traffic And you look so stuck No sense of adventure Just a routine fuck They can diagnose depression But don't know why your mystery comes knocking But you don't answer the door No, there are lights in the sky Not found on any map Creatures deep in the forest

2:09:10 That no ranger has tagged There are things in the ocean You won't see from the land Life's under no obligation To make sure you understand I'm told that truth is out there When you get past the lies It comes when you least expect it And it wears There's a disguise It'll tell you everything Just for a goof Can't take any pictures Won't have any proof So I watch ya live Like you never won A lost soul that's forgotten What really haunted is You didn't ask

2:10:19 But just let me say This is a horrible approach to seizing the day There are things you can know That you can't even think No doctor has medicine Like the shaman's next drink Sleep is never best inside of the dream. Who promised you anything would be as it seems? I'm told the truth is out there when you get past the lies, It comes with Ulystix and it wears a disguise!

2:11:20 Just for a goof Can't take any pictures