Marie D. Jones | Mind Control Throughout History, Mk Ultra, Cults, & Electronic Harassment

00:04 In the 1930s, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt addressed a nation through a series of radio broadcast known as the Fireside Chats. His aim was to reassure the common man that our society would recover from its troubled times but we're far from 1930 and I deal with a different kind of fire For a new era of worldly frustration We offer a fresh conversation! I'm Greg Carlwood These are The Hireside Chats How the hell are you, Hireside Shadows? From sunny San Diego drinking that drink smoking that smoke and looking to dive down the messy mind control rabbit hole I'm your humble host Greg Carlwood and i have with me today a San Diego local who I've met several times We're both good friends with Ron Patton of Paranoia Magazine. I always like to do a show with someone I've met a couple of times It's a lot more relaxed than it can be otherwise

00:56 We did start on Skype, weren't happy with the signal and switched it over to the landline really early on bending over backwards trying to make the best show we can for you people. Before we dive in, we gotta hear from August's Moneybomb winner. Of course you know half the THC donations get rolled up into what we call The Money Bomb and I gift that back to a random listener Big congrats to him with little over 300 bucks and thanks everyone who participates And to play us in, I got a special THC tune for anyone who is fan of It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia One of my favorite shows And we'll be talking rituals, religion, cults, torture racism patriotism secret societies MK ultra ufology blue beam the unabomber psychic driving Stockholm syndrome targeted individuals electronic harassment and more with a conspiratorial queen of San Diego Marie D. Jones on the other side It's the higher side jets podcast but you can call it THC

01:52 Always talking fringe ideas, digging up conspiracies Stuff they don't want you to know it's the stuff we wanna see That's life here on The Higher Side It's the place for me. It's my favorite show where the guests are great And my mind gets blown, The Higher Side Love The Higher Side Raise your glass and toast to Carl Wood, the host on The Higher Side Show. That's life here on The Higher Side Show!

02:50 What up Pirate Side Chatters, this is William Keegan. I want to start this off by thanking Mr Greg Carlwood for being such a boss and putting on this awesome show and setting up this awesome community where we can help support him and support other people. Personally i'm going to be using this money bomb to set up more longboards for people and to be giving Greg back something extra I have longboards at Very Good Longboarding Company on Facebook and Williams Wonder Works on Etsy. Mr. Greg Carwood, you are the man who keeps speaking the truth against the government and telling what's going on underneath the world in our parks, man. Peace! Alright people, longboards—who doesn't love a good longboard? But I do need to find a way to ensure that these messages come in a little bit clearer

03:46 But that said, mind control. We all know it's a major staple of the conspiracy world and why wouldn't it be? If you control the mind you control the body and creating a culture that doesn't think things like this are possible is its own ironic form of mind control in itself And there are many other layers from the consciousness controlling war on drugs to the MKUltra experiments religious cults marketing mass shootings media and more Alex Jones might even say there's a war going on for your mind Either way, I'm happy to welcome back a great author from here in San Diego Marie D. Jones who actually was my guest many moons ago when her time travel book with co-author Larry Flaxman This Book is From the Future came out and that was a great time She's also authored several other books on her own and with Larry including 1111 The Time Prompt Phenomenon

04:31 The Deja Vu Enigma, and the reason we're gathered here today. Mind Wars a history of mind control surveillance and social engineering by the government media and secret societies. An honor and a pleasure Marie welcome back to THC It is good to be back, thank you! For sure. Thanks for being here I really did enjoy this book and it you do a great job going over the vast array of branches on the mind control tree and Of course the history of mind control like the title suggests which is very interesting There's definitely pockets at time like the MK ultra project or The Inquisition where it pops up in a major way But to get the ball rolling here Where would you say we see mind control cropping up in its earliest form?

05:12 I am absolutely certain that from the day humans walked the earth we were trying to find ways to manipulate each other. Because i think it's part of human behavior, the desire to control somebody else's thoughts and behaviors and actions get them to think your way in see your way. I mean its a part interpersonal relationship I think that's where it's the most obvious to people aside from all the you know spooky kind of tinfoil hat stuff so i can imagine that even during primitive times there were Methods by which people you were trying to manipulate others but in terms of written history where we start to see it really show up is. In ancient times in the form of ritual and then the form of trying to get people to behave certain ways to appease the day at ease sometimes that involved torture abuse other times it just was about a very structured

06:14 Way of behaving that would either get you into the inner sanctum or not, you'd be an outcast. So that's kind of the earliest where we see some real evidence in our own history. Right on! And you do spend some time in the beginning of the book talking about ancient rituals and this cultish behavior, and I definitely think that the Abrahamic religions have been the biggest mind control factors in recorded history. But do you think there was ever a time when rituals and traditions were more about actually getting real results for things like spiritual journey or genuine entity contact? Or do you see it as mind control from the start?"

06:55 No, I think that ritual can be used in beneficial ways and very positive ways. It can be very beautiful...I think it's only corrupted when the people that are the authority figures are the ones looking for a very specific outcome. And organized religion is absolutely number one on the chart! But there were times when rituals were used to really just sort of commune with nature and certainly in the more pagan traditions to kind of become one with the forces of nature, and maybe even learn how to use them for your benefit or try to help you grow crops or whatever. You know have fertility rights and things like that so it's a part of our culture today I think we all have

07:47 little rituals that we do in our own lives, and certainly anybody who belongs to any religion today there's still those rituals that they practice in their own church. It's just when it's used to control and to dominate, to suppress is where you get into trouble. And ritual again was often taken to the extreme used in addition to torture, to get people behave the way that the authority figures wanted or the way that they interpreted the gods and goddesses wanted them to behave.

08:26 Because, you know, I mean religion even today we have – oh my God just look at the news! We have people who think they know the mind of God and what God wants and they're going to make YOU fit into that little mold no matter what they have to do. Yeah, I mean i really do like the idea of an ancient golden age where we started these types of practices because they worked for the intended purpose but our understanding maybe has degenerated and it's been hijacked by wealth extractors and those big religions. But it's been messed up for a long time! You write about the cult of Dionysus in Ancient Greece and I'm pretty sure the name will ring a bell with some people but tell us about their beliefs and practices? Some of its pretty out of control

09:12 Well, Dionysus was the god of wine and decadence and love and all those wonderful things that we label today as being bad news or you know things that you should avoid. Hedonism... I think it's really about your interpretation of the gods and goddesses so you could take something like worshiping wine or worshiping the god of fertility and you could moderate do that in moderation to where it's something enjoyable even pleasurable but you know there are people that are going to take it to extreme and there are others festival wear uh... people pretend hang themselves up with a lot of it you know he yeah i think the symbolize their death at they don't do it

10:03 you know, I mean they're not really hanging themselves but it's a symbolic act. I think that was one of the most important things about ancient ritual is that it was very powerfully symbolic to the point where some cult and when I say cult I really am talking about an actual cult but these were more religious cults that were focused on the worship of a deity rather than a human being who claimed to be a deity like we have today. But there are many that sacrificed humans or sacrificed children or had blood rituals and, you know, that's taken it a little extreme and in their minds though they're doing it to appease a certain god or goddess to try to gain favor so to them

10:52 It's not a problem. Whereas to us, it's like you people are freaks! You're taking it a little bit too extreme. But if you even look at modern day cults there are some cults that are very innocuous. People go they're like communes and everybody's into growing their own food, and just living peacefully and whatnot. And then there are all sorts of extremes that can go to where you have a suicide cult like Heaven's Gate which was as you know in our own backyard so it really has a lot to do with

11:29 So I think the willingness of the participants and the motives of the authority figures at that time. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you there! And you also talk about an ancient Hindu cult that I thought was pretty interesting based in Shiva worship called the Aghori? That had some pretty far-out rituals—I don't know if you remember them but if you do can you tell us a little bit about what they did? Well, Shiva is the destroyer-transformer deity in the Hindu religion. So you can only imagine how far... yeah I think that these are the ones that had the ritual involving honoring Brahma with

12:11 believe eating the flesh, rotting flesh of animals and animal feces. Yes! Now to them it was a way to become enlightened but you you know those of us now that maybe know a little bit better and have better ways of becoming enlightened. I mean, just that's just disgusting but the idea was to embody the decaying human...you know it's like your embodying death its almost cannibalistic to an extent in that if you can embody death you overcome it

12:48 it no longer has power over you. So, you can see the mindset of some of these societies and some of these rituals that they created which to them again and their mentality and their mindset was supposed to lead to a positive outcome, you know controlling death. Not being afraid of death overcoming death but to us when we look back it's like what a bunch of freaks! That's disgusting! You know? We would never do that And you mentioned torture in conjunction with some of these mind control tactics. We see those practices a lot in the Middle Ages, pretty gruesome stuff. Yeah You actually laid out a couple of different techniques that they would use can you tell us about a couple of those?

13:34 That was not fun to write about. And yeah, we featured a few... You know I think this is probably the blackest mark on the history of humanity—well one of them there's been several let's face it. During the Inquisition during the Middle Ages in the Dark Ages what happened was and you know I'm sorry but this is the truth Christianity was the power of the day and it really took a very dark turn in that the powers-that-be that were practicing Christianity felt or took it upon themselves to rid the world of those they felt were not worthy, or that were heathens, or pagans. They hated women okay? And I still see that a lot today

14:30 organized religions. I think it's really obvious in the right-wing fundamentalist Christian mentality that we see today, so they hated women, they feared women, they feared women's ability to procreate, they feared woman's menstrual cycles and a lot of times you know not just women but pagans and heathens and anybody who didn't automatically ascribe to the order of the day, they were tortured. Sometimes they were tortured to get information sometimes they were tortured to get confessions and just sort of bring them over to the other side you know come to the dark side we have cookies kind of thing but sometimes there was a torture because I honestly believe these people were psychopaths

15:17 absolute psychopaths operating under the guise of being religious, devoted Catholic. You know the Catholic Church has so much blood on its hands throughout our history using ritual, ritual torture, ritual abuse to get people to do what they wanted them to do and that is a form of mind control you know people will say but that's not really mind control well yeah it is because Because first of all, if you're being tortured you're going to eventually break and do whatever they want you to do. They've modified your behavior and they've modified your ability to control your own thoughts

15:56 But just the threat of torture is a powerful form of mind control. It is? So that's why that was such a dark period because so many people lived in fear, even people who didn't do anything wrong! You just looked at somebody were wrong during that time and they would burn you at the stake Mm-hmm and you also talk about the KKK a bit and racism is definitely one of those things that I think is adopted by suggestion And of course, we have a lot of modern racial issues where the pot seems to be boiling over But I had read recently this idea that prominent Masonic elite Albert Pike formed The KKK just to keep racism alive in people divided and it's interesting That k is the 11th letter making at eleven. Eleven eleven or thirty three Oh there you go

16:44 You know, a Masonic number. But I mean it really doesn't seem like the playbook on dividing people by race has changed much over the years does it? Isn't that something? It's 2015 and you think that we would have evolved a little bit more, and we really haven't. Now we just have different tactics by which we use politics and religion now, and we use social networking, and we use the media now – I'm not saying we, you or I but the powers-that-be as methods to control. the ritual now has become getting people to accept, this is what I see a lot of right now. Getting people to accept hatred, misogyny you know sexism, gender abuse...getting people to accept all of these horrendous things that as not just normal but it's okay. Right You know I see Donald Trump doing that he's a misogynist

17:46 I see so much women hating and, I'm gonna put it out there right now on your show that I think There is a third world war coming and it is going to be between the genders. Really? Honestly, you know now they want to shut down the government because they will want to defund Planned Parenthood Excuse me You know this provides wonderful services to poor women all over the country. It's just insane, but this is all a part of the master manipulation. Keep the status quo keep the powerful wealthy white you know

18:24 christian agenda the way it is and anybody in anything that threatened that gay marriage all while you know we're coming after you anybody that threatened that is going to be chastised abused uh... i think even killed are you know why no you're aware of this is a a different example but i think it plays into the same thing were talking about i know your where of although alternative health care doctors that have been dying, quote-unquote. There's nine of them now? Yeah I actually just talked to someone who said it was up to 13! Oh my god and some of them if not all were anti vaccine which i am an anti vacciner um... And so just the idea that now if you try to step outside of the little box that the powerful entities want to keep you in

19:17 They'll murder you. You know, they'll keep you powerless. They'll take away your jobs. They'll take away your rights. They'll take away your ability to have a healthy life. It's insanity and this is all like you said a part of our history. It's just morphed into a whole different beast, I think." Yeah, that is interesting the thought of... A lot people are saying that a third world war could be coming—a huge civil war or a huge massive problem. Could it be men versus women? It definitely could be! There's also a lot of black versus white. There's a lot of black versus cop. There's a lot of refugees and racism with that in Europe.

20:01 Panic, I mean okay so who gains and this is a question you know to always ask when we're talking about mind control and behavior modification of the masses is who benefits? Right. Who benefits that from turning men against women who benefit from turning black to get the mexicans again today who benefits from churning transgendered because christian than christians against muslims coop you know what this is kidney it's just one big massive distraction yes get up all hating each other and killing each other

20:39 bitching and moaning at each other so that what's happening way over here in the corner can just happen without any of our interference. And that's really frightening, people just don't realize that that's what going on You're right, and it totally takes the focus off the biggest criminals the biggest multinational corporations that are doing nefarious things They're looking for any scapegoat any place to shine the spotlight. That isn't on them Don't look at the banking system don't look at Monsanto. Don't look at the vaccines you know what? You need to look at is these Mexicans that are coming across the border This is your problem guys. You know that's what the media is telling us exactly how could you how could

21:20 yeah i do feel if you were a mexican in america and donald trump actually had a chance of being president i mean probably feel pretty uh... disenfranchised from your neighborhood i would feel like it back when they get any email as that at the one hand that to their level of hatred that i think coming from people who are her actually claiming could be religious is astonishing and Also seeing though that some of these people have women supporters. Now when you see something like that, that is a perfect example of mind control and brainwashing in action where you can actually have people who support your agenda when your agenda is to destroy them! That is it.

22:13 You've reached the pinnacle of your ability to control other people when you're a misogynist woman hater with female supporters. What the heck is going on here? That's just an example of how charismatic These people are, as far as I'm concerned, politicians and a lot of religious leaders are no different than the cult leaders that we've seen on the news. You know TN Doe and David Koresh and Charles Manson and Jim Jones and all the rest of them is

22:49 It's just that these people have a bigger media platform by which to speak from. Right, and it is definitely funny to see women supporting someone like Donald Trump when he has made so many derogatory statements but you know people vote against their own self-interest all the time whether it's a woman voting for misogynist or poor person voting for a capitalist like Mitt Romney or Donald Trump You know it's kind of funny that people vote against their own self-interest but it cuts the other way too because people also want someone who is on their team so you'll have women supporting Sarah Palin or supporting Hillary Clinton or black people supporting Obama just because

23:30 They share one trait. Yeah, I agree! It's ridiculous. We have to start thinking about the people on our team or the people who think like us not necessarily share one specific trait you know? Right and what is better for the country as a whole and here's the thing... You know like you said people are voting against their own best interests because they've, I truly believe they've been brainwashed And people hear that word and they cringe, and they think oh I saw a mentoring candidate. This is not that guess what it is It is but the brainwashers are different and you know back in the days of MKUltra there The goal was to learn about brainwashing because our POW's during the Korean War had been brainwashed We wanted to know how can we do that too?

24:20 And it's, you know, morphed since then. It's grown and evolved into people in our political arena, in our religious arena, in the media corporate entities they're all trying to hang on to their own power and their own ability to stay above, you know the populace. And they're using so many of the same techniques I agree Do you see the encouragement of patriotism to be another similar form of mind control? Implying that one group is better than another because of their geography instead of race or gender

25:00 Well, it is one of those what 14 tenets of fascism? You know to wrap yourself in nationalism and wrap yourself up in the American flag and carry the cross. And all the while you're preaching hatred and destruction and killing the poor taking away health care from people it's in sanity and here's the thing there so much love and respect in this country for the military and you know rightly fed to an extent that if u speaking out and say but wait a minute We wouldn't have to worry so much about our military if we would stop putting them in wars that never should be fought in the first place, so that the rich and powerful could keep getting more rich and powerful. You know people will just look at you like you're the enemy even though you're speaking the truth! It's insanity yeah... And patriotism is a hard one to fight because what do people do?

25:58 you're not American. You must be a Muslim or, you know, you're anti-American." And yet my understanding from the time I was a kid and paid attention in history class was that to speak out against the ills of your country and its power figures was more American than anything! That's what we were supposed to be all about. It's true. Yeah, definitely changed. It has and you also write a lot about secret societies too and the idea that a major tenant is swearing allegiance to the order above all other interests which of course is a technique of total dominance in mind control but that also has to be a key factor in some of these groups successes and rises of power I mean how much clout do you think some of these secret societies have in modern times because of that tactic?

26:48 I, you know...I don't know because i don't know a lot about whether there really is an Illuminati and this that or the other thing but they do now because it's something provable in something that you can see that there are that there is a very small group of very powerful people who call the shots. Now whatever you want to call them by you know I don't care They operate again like a cult and they do..i think they do use their own laws by which if you are a part of that secret society, you abide by them or they'll probably have you killed.

27:27 Or you don't get to be in the big boys club. I'm sure there's a few women, maybe who knows? But you know, I think it goes back to this idea that if you're in a secret society whether its the Rosicrucians or the Templars or The Order of the Golden Dawn whatever...the idea of a secret society is that you are elite You are chosen You're different from the unwashed masses And you prove that by accepting the laws, following the rituals and behaving the way that you were told to stay in good standing in this society. Well gosh! That sounds an awful lot like church to me! You know? I mean, I don't go to church anymore but

28:18 And I know a lot of churches, and I've been in a few. A lot of them are really wonderful places but there's a lot more fundamentalist churches that treat, that almost act like a secret society and if you don't abide by the rules...I've had some friends who have escaped the clutches of Calvary Church Hmm, well I'm not familiar with Calvary. Yeah, Calvary it's...not all of them! I don't want to badmouth all of them but apparently a lot of them operate very rigid standards and it's almost like Scientology where if you are in your inn and you swear allegiance and you don't associate—and again I'm not saying all Calvary churches but the ones that I've heard about from friends

29:05 you don't associate with outsiders and when you try to leave, oh wow! They make it very difficult. You can lose everything your job your friends or community. Your standing in the community and that's awful lot like Scientology So there is that or trying to leave any cult. There is that same mentality that you belong to us and if you ever try to gain back control of your own mind, your own thoughts, your own behaviors we're going to make you pay Mm-hmm. Yeah, I am very a huge critic of religions Of course and I did grow up Catholic and luckily that wasn't in something more like Mormonism or Scientology something that's a lot more oppressive But you know when I was a kid going to go into church, I of course hated it but it seemed very normal It just seemed like something people do and then I went probably 10 15 years without going and I had a friend who had a very traditional wedding And I'm sitting there

30:03 hearing the chanting, standing, kneeling sitting. Everyone's like a zombie." I was like wow this is a lot creepier than i remember it as a kid! This is kind of messed up yeah and it's funny because i was raised Roman Catholic too. I grew up in New York Italian you know and i used to love going to church when i was little because i thought the rituals were beautiful the candles and the chanting, and you know the pomp and elegance of it. I thought it was beautiful! It was only till I got older realized what they were saying that I was like whoa! But it does show you... And I think that in this situation those kinds of rituals are meant to put

30:48 the churchgoers in a little bit of an altered state of consciousness. Oh, I agree! You know, I remember... yeah you know the chanting and the candles and incense smell wonderful smells and it's all supposed to make you feel very peaceful and almost submissive. If you look back on it now, my thought is that it's a way to make people feel more open to getting the message that they were then to get with the spoken word but again a perfect example of the use of ritual to get you in a certain mindset

31:24 So that you then go out and do the biddings of the religious institution that you belong to. Mm-hmm, and fill up that collection plate. Yeah! We do have to dedicate some time to MKUltra although I think everyone here will be pretty familiar with The Basics but what are some details you came across researching it that are a little bit deeper than you found most interesting? Yeah, you know I figured most of your listeners know the history of MKUltra why it was formed who is behind it what they did but for me and I didn't know a lot about it. I really was surprised by how extensive this program wasn't how many different institutions over 88 different institutions were involved and that you know the origin of some of

32:15 methods, and I use that word lightly coming from Nazi scientists that were brought over during Operation Paperclip after the Second World War. That's very frightening to think that you know and here again it is a perfect example of using something so sinister to try to turn it into our benefit and a part of our history that most people don't know about. But what really kind of surprised me was some of the little things that came out like there's not a whole lot of proof that this happened but I was asking Nick Redford, hey is there any link

32:54 between the UFO enigma and MKUltra. And he said, oh yeah! Yeah there were some elements of MKUltra that may have involved – and I love this – fabricating UFO sightings and close encounter experiences And that may have been done in the early 1960s, which you know was the Exeter-New Hampshire Betty and Barney Hill incident. That whole time period where the abduction phenomenon kind of was presenting itself. Yeah. Just starting to think back on all of the UFO sightings and reports and wondering

33:36 Okay, now in addition to all the other theories that are out there as to what this phenomenon might be. Now we have to throw this one in. You know, and I read an article this probably about a month ago And I wish I would have saved it But if I take bookmarks so many things and then I have so many bookmarks. I have to clean them out something about The military that never is the army Navy whatever but they had mastered the ability to project into the sky an image, a three-dimensional image of like the fighter jet. And I thought oh come on okay first of all this probably came out at this MKUltra research second of all now does that mean that

34:25 you know, in a year from now because we know how technology is just exponentially advancing so much. So in a year from now does that mean that we're going to be fighting wars with holographic projections of fighter jets? And it really makes you wonder how much of our history—how much we've experienced has been manipulated. Right. You go back to the actual files with you know, the cigarette smoking man and this idea that there's been so much manipulation of history. And you hear things like that one of the other things that really fascinated me was finding out that like Ted Kaczynski the Unabomber Was an MKUltra subject I was blown away by that. Mm-hmm So yeah

35:13 he was young. He was a Harvard undergrad who took part in a psychological study and I don't know if I should say psychologist, but a lot of researchers later thought that perhaps what he experienced during the MKUltra study that he was involved in could have led him to become the way he was, the Unabomber. Yeah totally! And then hearing about Whitey Bulger, because you know there's this Johnny Depp movie coming out where he plays the Irish mobster. And that Whitey Bulger had volunteered when he was a prisoner I forgot what prison he was in but and i don't think we wrote about this in the book I think I found out that later He had volunteered to be part of MKUltra and they were studying apparently a drug that was supposed to be for Alzheimer's

36:06 And he, this toughened hardened lobster who killed people and you know is just an awful human being was so drastically and emotionally affected by it that he said I don't want to be a part of this anymore. That's how traumatic it was. It's like a clockwork orange! Yeah yeah... So that there was kind of interesting to see you know oh wow I wonder who else might have been unwittingly involved in these experiments and how many assassination attempts and successful assassinations

36:44 were the result of someone who was under MKUltra control or who had been a subject or victim at some point, or another. You know Sir Hans Sir Hans certainly we have tons of links that he not remembering what he did and the strange doodlings that he made on his notebooks in prison and it just really makes you look at history and wonder how much Was true and how many puzzle pieces are we really missing from our own history? Exactly. Yeah, that's my prime motivation for doing this show I love to challenge a little piece of history or Piece of science that we take for granted because we were taught it and we're like well There's no way that could have been fabricated And then you're like well Let's take a look at it Maybe let's spend two hours on the idea that it was and then who knows what you gonna end up thinking

37:37 And again, I always want to know. It's just that as a writer and researcher – and I'm sure you're the same way – but if you fabricate UFO events or alien experiences, whether it's just somebody seeing something in the sky or an actual full close encounter of the third kind where there is contact. Who is behind this and what is the motive? Is it just so they can see how far they can push the human mind or are they planning something because this happened in 1960s? We're now in 2015 and we still don't have any UFO disclosure to speak

38:20 We still haven't had that big massive invasion that you know, the entertainment industry loves to write about So I'm always kind of wary as to well. What was their real motive and agenda behind some of these Experiments was it just because they could do them right now? It is a curious thing MKUltra, to speak to your point about how vast these projects were and how little we know about them. You do say in the book that in 1973 most of the records were destroyed by CIA Director of the Day but in 1977 20,000 documents were found that had been misplaced and you have to assume that would be just a small fraction of what was out there if they thought they had destroyed everything. I mean 22,000 documents seems like a lot but if you're dealing with 500,000 documents it's easy to miss 20,000. Can you imagine?

39:17 And yeah, Richard Helms. Thank you so much for wiping out part of our history and he was the CIA director at the time who ordered the destruction of a vast majority of documents and again my first question is what the hell were you hiding? Because the documents that did make it through, they're pretty graphic. I imagine that a large majority of them are probably very vague on what you call abstracts and introductions into the research but some of them out now list the things that were done and we're talking all kinds

39:54 psychological, sexual mental emotional physical abuse deprivation the use of drugs and hypnosis you know brainwashing destruction of original personality to rebuild other personalities introduce alter personalities and create assassins and super spies so if all that was made public I can't even fathom What was in all the documents? I mean, probably if there is that little hint of a UFO connection. There were probably some really interesting things about that fabricating historical events

40:36 planning the assassinations of major historical figures, we just don't know. And it's the same way with like the UFO field where so much documentation has been released but it's just general stuff that we all kind of figure out anyway and just imagining what has been destroyed... We still don't know who shot JFK for sure so we don't know much about our own history and one really far out a possibility for the motivation for the UFO movement the whole thing being of fabrication is people who Take the idea of a holographic universe or a simulated reality to its extreme they say well, this was an attempt to make our fishbowl look much bigger and

41:27 You know, and that is a huge can of worms that I think is a really interesting road to go down. A rabbit hole! Yeah there had to be some kind of motivation and we also heard... Didn't Reagan give a speech where he mentioned an outside invader around the same time? Kinda leaving a breadcrumb, a mental breadcrumb there too. Some people think it was also the idea was to get us to one world government because you need an outside enemy that isn't even human Yeah, because okay like we were talking about earlier look at us today tearing each other apart over the fact that I have two breasts and you know a vagina excuse me and guys have other organs or my skin is white your skin is black. We've become each other's enemies but the way that you're really bringing us together under one great grand agenda

42:19 Like you said, you have got to introduce such a powerful external enemy that we all become submissive little lambs. All of us, we all fall in line now that hasn't happened yet and I don't know if it's because they're just not interested in taking us over or because the powers that be haven't planned the grand fabricated event yet. But you are absolutely right if you truly want to bring and I'm not just talking about the population of the United States Of America. I am talking about if you want to bring the global population To its knees You introduce an outside threat? Yeah, that's the only thing I could think of I mean, you know Well, it's like they can't pull off the alien thing just yet Maybe they don't have the full technology or capability to make it believable So they use Isis

43:17 There you go. Oh, absolutely you fabricated an enemy at least that half the world will hate and mobilize over You know absolutely and this is this is Mass mind control I mean it's one thing where you have these government programs like MK ultra which supposedly ended Officially a love that word but you know you and I both know it went on. It just went deeper underground, deeper black and probably shattered into a lot of smaller programs with names that we can't even imagine and I know that there are a lot of people writing about that have wonderful books you know they're really digging into that and I talked to woman who works in the prison system and she said oh yeah they're still coming in and experimenting on prisoners willingly or unwillingly but

44:08 Yeah, definitely. That's one form of mind control and the interpersonal is another but if you really want power you go for the mass manipulation and hatred And finding people's differences seems to work a whole lot better than love and light. I mean, I guess fear is the prime motivator and I hate to say that but it is the truth. Right? They say sex sells but really doesn't hold a candle to fear and violence Absolutely. Sex may sell, but fear is going to get you the power because what if... Hey think about it! What's behind the sex sells? That if you're afraid that if you don't buy this product you're not going to be sexy right? You're never gonna get laid again right I mean so underneath that is fear that oh if I want to be

45:01 that I need to do this. And of course, you know using women and keeping them in a submissive state and using men and making them have to behave a certain way or they're not really men... This is just insanity that we expose ourselves too." That's true! They use like only the top Absolutely. Yeah, how many times... I mean i'm older now and don't give a crap but I can tell you as young woman

45:39 I had to fight really hard to not buy into that. As a writer, luckily I don't have to really care about looking like a model but even then I was affected by it because it's such a part of society and now I look at girls today that I know the pressure, it's insane and a lot of them end up committing suicide. That's true. Doing drugs you know cutting and self-abuse but it's happening to young guys, young boys too that there are these standards that are so high Oh yeah And what is that? It's like cult mentality You conform you do this and you're going to be one of the golden people

46:25 And most of us can't live up to that, you know? Oh no. I lived in Pacific Beach so I know all about feeling inadequate and ridiculously high standards But you made your own. Right, I just stay inside and talk on the microphone So in terms of MKUltra we have heard a lot about a lot of the players involved but this guy Donald Ewan Cameron He's someone that I don't know if we've ever really talked about at length before what was his role in MKUltra? he was carrying out a lot of experiments himself right Yeah, he was a pretty nasty figure and apparently MKUltra was supposed to be strictly an American program but there were some strings that were pulled that allowed this... I almost said the word gentleman but he wasn't a gentleman at all. He was a Scottish psychiatrist and he was involved with McGill University in Montreal

47:21 and somehow was able to conduct some of the American MKUltra experimentation. I don't know how he did it, if he got his victims or subjects from the American side of the border but he ended up becoming the most notorious figure associated with MKUltra because of his technique that he had called psychic driving and psychic driving literally would put the subject into a trance or coma, almost like an insulin coma or some kind of drug-induced coma or trance. And he would use this looped tape of his own voice

48:03 that would put in messages and he claimed that they were positive and that he was doing this to study ways to help people positively, yeah right. But it would just loop memories onto their subconscious mind while they were in this totally submissive state and literally reprogrammed their subconscious. Now I can see that being a really good thing for example if you want to quit smoking You know, your doctor tells you to keep smoking and you're going to die. If you want to quit smoking or lose weight, if you want to get over your fear of socializing or something... We do have things like self-hypnosis and even regular hypnosis that can really help get into the subconscious and clean out some of those fears but he took it to such an extreme. This is one of the hallmarks of the MKUltra program was a fact that researchers and scientists were giving CARP's launch

48:57 Giving carte blanche to do whatever they wanted there were no rules. There were no guidelines that there were no ethics So some of the people that allegedly, you know and later there actually were some payouts so these people really were his victims that he experimented on they were young. They were young girls they were young kids He was giving them LSD he was putting them into deprivation chambers sometimes eat for days, he had what was called a sleep room it was kind of his like his little torture chamber. He took...he absolutely took his experimentation

49:44 to a major extreme. And, you know obviously those declassified documents exposed him and I know that there were some settlements from the CIA that were eventually made out much later in the 1980s to some of his victims was dropping the bucket compared to what they went through psychologically but yeah he Psychic driving, I mean maybe and here again you have to ask yourself. Did he start this out with a true motivation of wanting to help people? I don't know. Or was he just one of those mad scientists who they're so focused on what they're doing that their subjects aren't even human to them anymore, they are objects. Right You know one of his victims Carol Rutz she's written a book called A Nation Betrayed and

50:45 she claims that you know some of the things he was doing was trying to create assassins and super soldiers and one of the ways that he did that with The Psychic Driving, again destroy their original personality and program in these alter personalities. And she even had a whole list of different levels of programming driven in to the person through trigger codes and through the driving, the looped driving tape. Mm-hmm And that was absolutely fascinating Yeah another thing about her that was interesting Was you mentioned in the book that she was apparently turned over to the CIA by her grandfather at the age of four? And that's how she got involved in these experiments I mean That's dark

51:33 It is and I have heard so many stories about families that were somehow tied in to some of these researchers or possibly the government itself or the CIA who did do that. Now, whether or not the families knew what was going to happen We donít know. They may have been told, ìWeíre doing some psychological research with young children and itís not going to hurt them. Youíre going to be paid a bunch of money for their callî but we donít know. It also could mean that they were part of this. A lot people think that this was like

52:11 associated with satanic beliefs and satanic ritual abuse. I don't know if MKUltra was linked to that or if that came later and morphed into something on its own, but to give up your child for something like that? To even let your child be a part of it? Come on! I'm a mom. I would never in a million years let anybody do that to my son There have been times that when my son was younger and he was having some really crazy issues, I went to the doctor and she said maybe we should put him on Risperdal. And I was so desperate that I thought okay let's try it maybe that will help him and six months later

52:53 I took him off at cold turkey because he became a demon. So as a parent, I have to step back a little and say okay were they in the same situation where maybe they were told that this is gonna benefit other children and then they realized what happened, I don't know. And in her situation, I think it might have been sort of a standalone situation but I did talk to couple of survivors that said the same thing, that when they were young girls maybe eight nine years or little bit older

53:32 I have to take everything people tell me with a grain of salt but she had a lot of dates and names and statistics, didnít want to be known, didnít want to write She just wanted me to know so that if I heard of other stories, I could put them in touch with you. And it's like do I believe these people? Do I not believe them? What goes on behind closed doors in our own government is more to fear than any ISIS may or may not exist out there.

54:10 Another one of Donald Ewan Cameron's victims that you wrote about was this woman Val Orlikow. She apparently said that, well her story is he had been dosing her with up to 11 doses of LSD at one time using electroshock therapy to bring her mind to that of a toddler. Apparently what I thought was interesting about this is she did have a fairly decent recovery but she was still convinced that this guy was God Yeah, talk about brainwashing. And again what does that remind you of? Cult behavior where somebody could be in a cult and they're being sexually abused and they're being beaten and they have all their money taken away from them but boy it's like Stockholm Syndrome or capture bonding where you actually begin to side with and even fall in love a little bit with your abuser

55:07 So the idea of bringing someone back to the toddler mentality means that you can manipulate and recreate them much more so than you can a more adult, fully formed mind. And I think maybe it was a little bit easier to do those God-awful things that he did on someone who was a little bit older, although I doubt very seriously any of these people had any ethics. But yeah she was one of the people that received they got a fairly well $750,000 settlement from the CIA That's it sounds like a lot of money but i think when your whole life has been screwed up probably there's no amount of money that will

55:53 will ever make up for it. But it did help to publicize what had happened, and it did help to bring into the public eye and say look You know, this is going on and here's the money that they paid us to shut up about it. Mm-hmm Yeah I mean I Stockholm syndrome is an interesting one But you know I drive around the Midwest in the south And I see people That are probably working at the dollar store for three decades with an American flag out on front of their trailer And I'm like yeah, I think a lot of Americans have Stockholm syndrome because They say it's the land of the free, but a lot of people don't have much choice about what they do on a daily basis. But yet they're still waving that flag

56:35 Yeah, yeah and I think that's a really you know very well said because we are all victims and prisoners and we're all being subjected to some form of mind control manipulation. We're under total surveillance all the time out there people realize that either You know and yet were still kind of going through life like Tra-la-la, Pollyanna. And many people know they're suffering like you said they don't have jobs or losing their farms say you know they can't get health care they're dying of cancer what have you but they still are gonna vote for that jackass who's gonna promise them more the same! Exactly It's insanity but I think over time because i don't think this is the kind of thing that happens over a period of week

57:27 I think over human lifetime we're bombarded with these different messages and the rhetoric, and eventually it's just total cognitive dissonance. Total separation from what is actually happening and we sort of create this little fantasy world because it's so much easier to deal with so that we can take care of ourselves and our families and go to our jobs if we're lucky enough to have them then we can function. And I think that this is like a survivor mechanism... ...to sort of side with your abuser. It's easier than trying to fight them, but the problem is if nobody steps up to fight them then the abuse just continues.

58:11 That's true. And I think that's really interesting that you've met some victims personally and talked to them about their stories, are there any other things you can tell us about people you've met who have been victims? Actually the coolest people that I met were TIs targeted individuals I don't think it had anything to do with MKUltra, again because MKUltra happened at a very specific time period. So when people say that they are – if somebody in their 20s tells me that they were part of MKUltra, I know that they're not. I know they're misinterpreting because that program, that official program ended. However like I said it probably didn't end it just broke into a whole bunch of other programs that are still ongoing and so one of the more modern because you know that was gosh 50 years ago? Am I doing my math right

59:06 started in the early 1950s. That was a long time ago, so if you're a victim of MKUltra, you're older now! But some of the younger people that are claiming that they're targeted individuals and they're talking about being harassed in these sort of unique ways with microwave pulses and electronic harassment and gang stalking, V2K and all these really interesting intriguing things that I did not know anything about. That's fascinating to me. I talked quite a few Now, I was in the UFO field for a long time. I was a member of MUFON – I actually ran two groups one in LA and one in San Diego for over 15 years back into the 1980's okay? Into the 90's that was at the time when the abduction phenomena was really rising up again it sort of rose up in the 60's disappeared for awhile and then the 1980's it really exploded

1:00:08 And the reason why I'm talking about this is because I think that you compare perfectly. So what happened then is we started to have people coming to our meetings or calling us, this was before texting in the internet and cell phones and things when you had actually contact people in person And they were claiming that they've experienced these abductions. At the time, we didn't know what to do and how to handle that. It was a new thing! We started hearing about what Bud Hopkins was doing and you know there were some people who could do hypnotic regression and eventually we had small group of people that knew we could trust

1:00:53 Turn these people over to to at least maybe get a better understanding. We still didn't really know what was happening to them I could tell you that the majority of people I'm really good at reading people and the majority were Bs thing they either wanted attention or or they were totally misinterpreting what was happening to them and applying it to the abduction scenario because it was cool. Okay, so jump now into this whole targeted individual phenomenon and I say the same thing there are people that are genuinely being terrorized

1:01:32 There are people that are genuinely suffering physical results of microwave harassment, psychological harassment. Some of them even know why they may be whistleblowers or they may have links to the military or some kind of secret information but most of them don't know why and think that there just guinea pigs for this new technology perfected. But again, a lot of people I can tell right off the bat they're not true targeted individuals. They're applying an experience that they're having that you could just tell now I can't prove it but you've got to have really good discernment and gut instinct

1:02:17 But for the very few that are, it's very scary. And interestingly and Larry you know my co-author Larry always laughs at me when I tell him this because he thinks I'm full of crap but when we were writing the book, I was living in another location. I was living at the top of a hill I'm a ham radio operator, and got really good reception for ham radio. For just everything you know? I was like in the prime spot and now i'm down on the golf course where I get nothing! Nothing... You're lucky you're talking to me! But anyway for about two months period while I was researching the book

1:02:58 I was experiencing almost like electrical pulses that started at the bottom of my feet and went up both legs. And then, I would hear voices in my head or I would hear clicks tones, pulses and they sounded like Morse code. They had a very structured pattern to them and I'm familiar with Morse code." And I thought wow you know am i just like hypersensitively hearing some ham frequency or something in the air? Or is this V2K? Is that what this is somebody because I had been warned

1:03:35 by a good friend of both of ours, that I might experience a little bit of harassment if anybody knew I was writing the book. And I said oh please please, I've written about all kinds of creepy stuff. It actually kept going to the point where I went to the doctor several times because I felt like I was going crazy I would hear snippets of conversation. I would hear these pulses and tones at night so I couldn't sleep, my doctor said you don't have tinnitus your sinuses aren't blocked you know it's she just didn't know My main concern was MS because one of the symptoms of MS is electrical pulses in the legs You know we ruled out everything and i think she thought I was crazy

1:04:22 But when I moved and the book was turned into the publisher, it stopped. And I've not had it since now. Now I don't know what that was but I can tell you that it drove me crazy enough that I went to... in fact I saw my doctor twice. I loved my doctor she's so cool! So if this is happening to somebody on a daily basis for years I can imagine how easily it is for them to be emotionally and psychologically crippled if not physically. What a perfect way to control, disable and disempower people. It's stealth technology that you don't see You know? You don't know where it's coming from. It's done remotely

1:05:12 So that was, that just really freaked me out. In terms of talking to some of the people I really felt like wow this is somebody that I think is really very credible and genuinely terrified Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's creepy! I'm glad that it stopped for you at least but... I wanted to keep going and once I thought well maybe I know what it is maybe I can like find out where its coming from. Honestly couldn't sleep for a long time but it just was kind of amusing to me that wow just when I'm starting that chapter

1:05:54 Am I imagining this? You know? Yeah, placebo effect. All right well damn Marie we have talked about so much that pretty much brings us to the finish line This has been a great time talking to you again The book is very informative too before i cut you loose would you like to tell the people About any of your other work or anything else you'd like to implant in their brains Oh my gosh take back control of your thoughts and don't watch the news You'll find out what's going on in the world somehow. But, you know just my website is mariedjones.com and you can look at all the different books there and the books are sold online, brick-and-mortar bookstores if any exist anymore. And just don't be afraid of this stuff as scary as it is! It's got to take back your power.

1:06:45 Well said. Very awesome, well thanks again Marie! Keep your wits about you out there alright? Thank you Alright guys how was that I know Mind Control has covered a lot on these types of shows but i hope we got to some areas and aspects that might have been off the beaten path just a bit in the first half I think we got quite a lot done and then of course in the second hour Big Pharma vaccines Mass shootings in mind control's role. Consciousness and thoughts themselves, thought waves, the muse concept, entity influence on the mind, memetic entities, subliminal messaging... I thought it was great! Consider supporting me with that plus show if you don't already we are deep into September people and this is only show two of six because i did OU1 from last month and in the past six days i've recorded three shows so it's been very

1:07:32 Prepare, record. Prepare, record and now I'm getting a chance to do some of that editing and whatnot so i should be firing them at you pretty quickly how about that I do love doing this show and a topic like mind control really is vast, and really is at the center of everything. It starts with consciousness you know? Look at the money magic they use! Its mind control it's a religion people structure their whole lives around how much green paper they're gonna have or how to get that bank account up to the new high score its nuts and I was lucky that I grew up a spoiled only child who always pretty much got his pathetic little way but I had the foresight to at least see that gravy train

1:08:12 Ending as I got older and had to move out of the house, and I never really cared about the rat race. I always wanted my time and freedom more than I wanted that paycheck...I always felt like I was being dragged along because everybody else was and of course we're all kind of forced you I mean how many people would be completely screwed if he just went one month without making money one month of your life And it could all be over Or, how many of us are one accident away from complete financial ruin? We all know this but it's the lack of questioning or consideration of alternatives to the dog-eat-dog capitalist system that really feels like the tightest grip on the modern mind.

1:08:52 One of my favorite conspiracies shirt designs that I had, and all of them are pretty much gone now was the what's after capitalism. I resisted the temptation to go full anti-capitalism and just asked a simple question And the conversations that would start always seemed to be well what we have now is crony capitalism if you could just get back to a free market things would be better yeah yeah I would just laugh because when you've invested your whole life in a system, some people get real emotional about defending it. They have to say something to me in the checkout line and can't let go or ignore it. And I would always say this shirt doesn't say capitalism is bad... It has to do with being curious about what comes next? Is there greater evolution? Power pyramids, spider beings and reptilian string pullers aside shouldn't society constantly be fine tuning and optimizing itself?

1:09:43 And the blank stares I would get in response, just the audacity to think that there could be a step beyond capitalism. It's insulting to some people but i feel like my phone has gotten more major updates in the past couple years than the structure that our society is built on It's kind of messed up, that why I always roll my eyes at Constitution talk too. And I can just feel the energy of some of you getting down into the attack crouch right now But when people parrot the same old lines about getting back to what the forefathers wanted or restoring the constitution... ...I just want to scream at them about not looking to the 1700s for the best ideas of today Aren't there smart people around now that could maybe make a better constitution? Or a better guideline for human life

1:10:27 It's a different world now. Leave the Constitution alone Half the people in Congress now don't even know how to use a computer and some of you want to look 200 years before that for a model? Get out of town Well, that's the ramblings of your humble stoner host nobody's favorite part of the show Hope you had a good time with Marie today And I'll see you soon Your move targeters of individuals and electronic harassers your frickin' move Sweet dreams to the elite We're calling I'm out on THC Uncovering secrets and conspiracies Everybody's looking for something Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be abused

1:11:27 Of sleep, so free Sweet themes on DHC Who the hell could disagree? We know the rabbit hole goes deep Everybody's digging for something Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be a-