Joshua Cutchin | The Food and Drink Offerings Of Aliens, Faeries, and Sasquatch

00:00 You have one new message. What's up Greg, this is Justy Just bought some conspiracies and I don't know man just been so stoked on the Hireside Shacks I've been doing nothing but listening to you guys when we're driving pizzas at night The Hattie Bob material is just absolutely mind-blowing in the way that it fits into the Electric Universe In a way that the Electric Universe isn't a hollow earth It all just...it's wild man Keep doing what your doin' Thanks alot Make another donation soon I'm talking real man. This puppet master's almost surely have a... There's clearly maybe something there be... And until you've thoroughly tested every last post just to... You know the less you really do! That's true, Dr. Seuss. Edward without THC! Cause we know they're lying to us Just don't know without TNC The higher side chat show A war of company

01:13 Holy hell, Hiresight Chatters! Drinkin' a little drink. Smokin' a little smoke. Altering to keep from faltering here in sunny San Diego I'm Greg Carlwood And people we know the world is a weird place We have cryptid encounters from nearly every corner of the globe Occult rituals that conjure up contact Thousands who report alien abductions and entheogenic experiences That are as strange as the day is long and as much as I love these topics Sadly, many high strangeness researchers have a one-track mind. You'll find that a lot of Bigfoot hunters have no interest in spiritual entities and many alien abductee researchers have no interest in things like psychedelics. And the list goes on... But lucky for us today we have a guy who's very willing to wade through the crossroads and intersections of these fields and has approached this study in a new book through commonalities that might not be immediately apparent – food & drink!

02:01 His name is Joshua Kutchin and the book is called A Trojan Feast, The Food & Drink Offerings of Aliens, Fairies and Sasquatch. He has a master's degree in journalism and musicology currently working for the University of Georgia's Music Department and got his strange research start studying trickster elements of classical music and Russian folklore How could I not like this guy? Josh my man welcome to THC how are you? Hey, I'm doing great and a slight addendum. I actually broke free from the chains of the system and I am doing my own thing now teaching music and writing books so i'm happy. Love it man! Congratulations It's been one those things where you look back on it and say I should have done this about five years ago So anyway, yeah gotta trust yourself

02:45 Amen man, and yeah dude I am pumped for this. Last time I had Nick Redfern here was months ago we were talking about inner earth beings and crypto terrestrials and psychedelics And he said oh you got to read this Trojan Feast book and it took me a while but the premise was so interesting I definitely did not forget about it now loved that It's right up my alley and I guess to get us started What was it that brought you to pull on this particularly pretty undisturbed thread? Well, first of all a big thank you to Nick. He's been he's been a real champion of this and it's just bizarre To me to be in a place where he's talking about something that I've written because I've been a fan of his for so long I have been a fan of these sort of topics for quite awhile and I'd always sort of had a keen interest in the similarities between fairy folklore and in particular

03:34 modern alien abduction folklore. The sort of passport to Magonia, Jacques Vallée line of thinking and one of the things that always really stood out to me was the food taboo this idea that in especially in Celtic folklore if you were to take food from one of the fairies who would be trapped in fairyland forever and actually have to remain there with them so You know, I saw some vague parallels with this in certain abduction cases where people were offered food and drink. And I'm like well that's sort of interesting but you know obviously abductees don't stay with aliens forever or else we'd never hear those stories but my light bulb moment was when i was reading J Robert Alley's Raincoast Sasquatch which is a great book it's about

04:21 Sasquatch sightings all along the coast of Alaska and northern Washington. He mentions a, I believe it's a Simshian Native American belief that if you were to take food from sasquatch—their version of the sasquatch—you would be trapped with sasquatch forever." And I sat back and said, wait a minute this is weird because if was anywhere on the Eurasia continent, you could sort of say well maybe it's related the typical belief of fairy folklore. But this is separated by this entire ocean." Now, I'm as much a fan of diffusionist thinking as anybody else but it still gave me pause and made me think maybe there's something here so I sort of tugged on that thread and it was this really rich rewarding subject which I was really interested in. And I sat back and said to myself, I would like to read this book

05:08 But no one has written this book and I don't think anyone's going to write this book. So, I just decided to do it myself which you know that's a pretty big moment in your life to make the decision to be associated with these things but uh... but i did it and now its been one of the best decisions I've made. Yeah man! I love it The food taboo, that is something that I guess I've never heard it put in that term. But yeah, it's something that comes up and a lot of these stories that I had read before but of course way more than your book and you mentioned that it was a kind of a Celtic thing, and it does span other cultures. But in the book you say it's also Nordic and comes up in Jewish traditions. Can you tell us about those threads? It comes up at a ton of different folklore. In fact I'm pretty sure that anyone who has watched films, any fantasy films of any type has run into these sort of things. You know this idea that whatever you do don't eat the food while

06:02 Yeah, specifically in Nordic traditions and the Finnish Kalevala their hero Väinämöinen is actually given a tankard of beer while he's in the underworld. Even though it would have quenched his thirst he refused to drink it but you see this literally all over the world as I mentioned there are some Native American beliefs to this idea that if you take food from the other you will be trapped with the other forever In Mesopotamia, there was this hero named Adapa who refused food from the god Anu. In Japanese culture, Izanami died in childbirth and ate food in the afterlife and never returned to living. In certain island cultures in the South Pacific they feel that if you – You can go visit a deceased loved one but if you eat while you're there, you will be trapped forever. A lot of people love

06:49 Folklorists will say that this all is an evolution of the myth of Persephone, who was the daughter of Demeter who was tricked into the underworld by Hades. And when Hades was due to release her he actually tricked her by giving her a pomegranate seed and once she consumed it she was trapped in underworld for eternity and every spring she would come up just for a little while to rejoin her mother But, to me the idea that this is all the outgrowth of this one very specific Greek myth sort of falls apart when you look at how widespread it is in terms of being again off that Eurasian continent. So, that's sort of where the basis for the book starts and then it looks at how – they

07:29 Basic ideas are reflected in folklore that we have with all sorts of unexplained phenomena. Another example I like this even as far north as alaska you talked about a tribe who have alleged that if use something they call the woods men or their word for that invites people to share and it's feasting if u do again become one of its people and are trapped in his world yeah let's start another interesting little parallel without is at the food that the woodsman gives you Actually, it looks like dried salmon but it's actually tree bark in disguise. And this is again another direct parallel to that Celtic fairy folklore where they would give you food but those actually cloaked and glamour and reality was leaves and twigs and worms and such so its one-to-one comparison that I just find absolutely fascinating. Yeah man! I do love that thread too and another thing that's interesting that's in your book is just how strong

08:25 fairy beliefs are in iceland you mentioned that it's not uncommon for construction or road work to purposely avoid a work around areas that fairies are thought to inhabit which sounds so foreign to an american where we don't even give a shit about the animals we know our living right there and here is we want to take over but i mean that's amazing yes it's almost as if the uh... those like guys device on from what i understand Has sort of a better safe than sorry mentality you will run into tons of anecdotal stories about construction workers who don't heed the warnings that oh this is a fairy boulder. This boulder is home to fairies and and who will go to start up their construction equipment, and the equipment will fail. Or certain stretches of highway where it said that a fairy tree was knocked down and there are wrecks along that highway. So yeah, there's actually a very vocal group of people who are like you better not mess with this. I think that for lack of a better term secular folks in Iceland sort

09:20 cope with this idea by saying, well it's preserving heritage. But there are some people who really believe they'll go out to a field and be like look at this giant slab of granite that's a fairy school which you know me personally I'm pretty agnostic on a lot of these things. Where I fall at the end of the day is saying that there are too many similarities to discount and then, I believe that something is going on but my interest is really in these shared comparisons but as far as you know, oh fairies are real or aliens are real or Sasquatches' real... You know? I don't really feel comfortable saying any of that but apparently some Icelanders are comfortable saying that so

09:58 Yeah, I actually heard you put it that you think that the ET hypothesis is too tidy of an explanation for untidy phenomenon. And i think that's a great line man and really do agree Well thanks! You know what? It's not a controversial thing to say but I say this as somebody who came into like lot of us do thinking that must be answer and more you get into sort reality bending aspects of this The less possible that really seems from a standpoint that we can understand, you know perhaps there are intelligences from other planets visiting Earth who have the ability to generate synchronicities who have the ability to Transport you into a dreamlike realm. That's entirely possible I'm not You know Not writing that off it just seems less likely to me From what? We know of the way that biology and evolution tend to work then that's what's happening so, you know again with this sort of agnosticism but I feel like

10:49 I've had a lot of people say if they're coming to collect biological material, you'd think that they have gotten enough by now. If they're drilling into people's skulls to collect DNA, you would think that they have methods as non-invasive as our methods of collecting DNA which are often a mouth swab So yeah it seems to me that there's more theater involved than a lot of people want to imagine. Yeah man I think it was Michael Mont who really got me thinking that the greys could actually be creatures that we share the planet with who just don't tell us where they're from, they just say their from outer space and then he made the connection to fairy lore which obviously you get into in the book and now more than ever I wonder if these two phenomenon aren't part of the same thing which definitely seems to be something you entertain too?

11:34 Yeah, I mean it's bizarre because it really does extend into the Sasquatch thing as well. Let's just take a look at couple of things. You've got short beings often accompanied by bright lights, often accompanied by a buzzing sound found along lonely roads at night. Very interested in reproduction you know fairies would sleep with people and they would swap out babies for changelings of their own often the shorter ones are supervised by a taller entity in fairy folklore which is the same thing that you run into an abduction accounts something that a lot of people don't want to talk about, which I would love for there to be a flesh and blood Sasquatch. But at the same time, you know, Sasquatch looks an awful lot like the Celtic wood wolf who was a fairy of its own in its own right. Sasquatch is accused

12:19 areas of breeding horses' manes, which sounds laughable until you consider the fact that's again a trait of a lot of fairy folklore. And people are starting to report more now odd lights seen in Sasquatch heavy areas. So we've got all this and then you also have this food taboo too so I think what I am really fond of saying at this point is that I'm not sure if these are all the same thing or if they're different faces of the same thing or if they are different things using similar methods. But at the very least, the Venn diagrams touch somewhere. Somewhere there's some overlap that I think is really important and I think that if we could pay a little bit more attention to that, we might actually make some headway instead of – again like what we were talking about before this show, instead of doing another book on Roswell.

13:05 Yeah, man. You don't hear about Sasquatch abduction cases very often but that was interesting you do have one in the book what's up with that? Well, you know it says watch abduction cases are I think the line that I use in the book is hard to find like hard-to-come by and then even harder to find legitimate ones for once it sound legitimate yeah a lot of I mean there's plenty of Native American folklore about Sasquatch abducting ladies for possible reproductive purposes again the reproductive angle that we just mentioned But hands down the most famous testimony in modern law is the story of Albert Ostman, who claimed that in the early—I believe it was 19—sometime around 1930's. He was working as a prospector in British Columbia and while he was sleeping felt himself lifted from the ground in his sleeping bag

13:53 After a short time, he was plopped into this valley, the shallow valley where he saw this family of Sasquatch who were apparently just keeping him – I don't know. Just as a pet or something is what we speculated later but it was for Sasquatch. He thought they were maybe father-mother son and daughter and he stayed there according to him. He actually swore an affidavit to this effect in 1957 He claimed that he stayed there with them for several days and then was given some sweet roots to eat that had this sort of satisfying taste. Unlike fairy folklore, he ate the food and didn't stay because he actually ended up tricking the father who was standing guard into eating his can of snuff which it then obviously didn't like and proceeded to flush down its throat with boiling hot coffee so apparently according to Ostman that created enough distraction for him to escape

14:45 It's a story that in a lot of ways strains credulity, but at the same time it's interesting to see some of these interesting little parallels because a lot of the things that people receive in some of these cases or in fairy folklore were sweet foods. Mm hmm. Yeah, and sticking with Sasquatch for a little bit I guess when it comes to Sasquatch encounters where do we see food come into play the most sometimes with hunters right? Yeah you know it's-it's sometimes with hunters or prospector general outdoorsy types perhaps because most of the of the body of Sasquatch abduction tends to feature women being taken usually for salacious purposes. We have a lot of stories like that again coming out of Native American folklore, there was a young lady by the name of Seraphine Long

15:35 who claimed that when she was 17 years old, was snatched up by a Sasquatch who rubbed tree gum over her eyes before taking her to its lair. This is interesting to me because among other things it was said that in order to see the fairies you'd have an ointment rubbed on your eye or very common thing in abduction narratives is that people will be rubbed down with ointment as well so anyway I digress And apparently she claimed that she lived with this Sasquatch and gave birth to its child. I think she stayed there about a year. While she was there, she was given roots fish and meat to eat. We have another story from, I believe, the Himalayas of a Buddhist lady who is taken and who was also given some raw meat to eat during her stay with another Yeti actually as it was. It's interesting because in terms of folklore Sasquatch lines up

16:32 Very closely with the idea of the food taboo and the idea of you know that the very full but when you actually look at these cases in reality a lot of things that are given in sasquatch cases sort of tend to have less than common with for example inferior or an modern alien abductions people. Rarely, if ever I can literally probably count on one hand not counting a couple of contactees But I could literally count on one hand the number of people who claim to be given meat of some sort in theory or alien Abductions whereas that's almost always the case in Sasquatch lore so that sort of makes me believe well Maybe perhaps there's a biological flesh-and-blood reality to sasquatch that you don't see with other

17:12 Fear your and or you know alien for lack of a better term but it's interesting how they are sort of there is a similarity in terms of the folklore but not in terms of the actual practice. Yeah you know sasquatch i don't talk about very much in this show because, The idea of a missing link ape really isn't super interesting or really surprising to me, but I do hear more stories about them being involved with portals of some kind. It makes me think maybe they're walkers between the worlds or maybe something akin to skinwalkers or something in that realm Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like Sasquatch in a lot of ways is people's gateway drug into this sort of topics. Because on the face of that it's a very easy thing to buy into. Well you know there's a lot of land on the Pacific Northwest and its possible that there could be a big monkey running around so I think it serves as a way to get people into these sorts of topics

18:06 At the same time, yeah. Once you start digging at it a little bit you find – well it's just like with the alien – of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. It's a tidy explanation for an untidy phenomenon. The idea that Bigfoot is biological because there are plenty of reports of Sasquatch tracks stopping dead in the middle of an untouched snowy field. I still think that there uh, something to be said for the fact that we've never had a dead Sasquatch show up anywhere that we know of. And of course people will say or the government's keeping it under wraps or they will say well you know people don't run across dead black bears in the forest that often and there must be more black bears than there are Sasquatch but

18:46 At the same time, people have at some point run across bear carcasses. Exactly! So I think there's something a little bit stranger going on there sometimes I lean towards the idea that perhaps there is a biological and more mystical component acting in tandem. Yeah, and I remember why I said hunters because there seems to be a slight collection of stories where a hunter will shoot something and then chase after it and its kill will be gone and I guess in one case I found particularly creepy he came up on his killing had been kind of buried

19:23 Trevor Burruson Right. In terms of Sasquatch giving people food, with hunters that doesn't happen very often but in terms of Sasquatch taking food from people yeah it happens quite often allegedly. It's interesting because if you look at this idea of receiving food from unknown entities I don't think you can talk about that without at least examining to a certain degree unknown entities taking food from the opposite end. A lot of people used to leave food out for fairies, that was a very common thing but yeah it's not at all uncommon to hear about hunters who will see an animal go down and go towards it and the animals no there nor is there blood trail so seems like something must have come along and picked up one of the interesting stories thats in the book is some guys who shot a black bear in Pacific Northwest actually dug shallow

20:10 pit to hide it because they were going to go off and get their truck to be able to haul it out. They actually put the black bear carcass into the pit, And covered it with branches and leaves so that was, it wasn't visible. Then they come back and its completely gone! I think it would take probably several wolves in tandem to get a bear carcass out of the pit So again you can say thats Bigfoot unless somebody saw bigfoot doing it but its very suggestive As long as we're entertaining these sort of fringier ideas about Bigfoot, I started to wonder sometimes if there aren't two separate phenomena going on where they're – yeah. There's Bigfoot in an area but there is also forest poltergeist because you look at a lot of the stuff that is attributed to Bigfoot like for example, you go on the BFRO website, Bigfoot Field Research Organization

21:03 And you look at the class B reports where it's like, well we, you know things that seem to indicate Sasquatch but nobody ever saw a Sasquatch. The things they see are stones being thrown unexplained voices and calls phantom smells obviously footprints you know a lot of these really telling the feeling of being watched all other sound like if they were in house we just talk about to poltergeist phenomena sometimes i wonder there's not there is not a bigfoot and your big foot instead have it pulled her guys here. Yeah man you're so right never really considered that but those are the same kind things people report in our house or hotel or something but, I wanted to backtrack a little bit to the first

21:41 Story that you open the book with it's a brief story of astrey alls dadder i love this one but can you tell us what happened to her and why he chose that as the opener. Yeah this is wonderful wonderfully creepy little story about young girl who was in norway in june of seventeen twenty was hurting cows for her employer when she actually ran across her employer in the wilderness. He appeared to her and he was accompanied by this strange sort of music coming down from the mountains, And he said, can you hear that? She goes. Yeah I can hear it too and he goes well come on along follow me and this girl's working for this guy on his farm so she was like sure as soon as she gets a little bit away from the herd it turns out that four other guys appear in their all dressed in these red shirts and black trousers with blue stockings and round black caps and her employer changes into one of these guys to choose five of these identical guides staring at

22:40 And they actually grab her and throw her into this door inside the mountain, this large metallic door that swings shut. Of course she's terrified and it wasn't long before somebody who said he was a priest came along to her and said you know this is great it's going to be fine it's wonderful here have a drink! And she refuses A little bit later, a woman who appeared to be the priest's wife which is sort of contradictory. The priest's wife – unless they're Anglican which in Norway in 1720 they weren't. Anyway I digress but the priest's wife shows up with this food and says come on girl eat this, eat this and before she actually ends up being released she's asked to eat or drink something eight times during the course at this time.

23:24 They show her this giant feast and they say, eat here. You can have anything you want as long as you refuse to go back home. Forget your old life." One of them apparently took on the form of her aunt and her mother and offered her, we'll wed you to a fine man and will give you riches as long as you eat this. And they never got her to eat it. So five days later even though she felt that had only been about 12 hours she reappeared at her employer's farm and did not recall eating anything, and told this story to a newspaper in Norway. So again we got this newspaper from 1720 who knows how quote unquote real it is? But at the same time that the folklore is startling I mean she was returned after refusing to eat this food obviously there was some sort of motivation for them to offer her eight times something to

24:15 This story is a little bit of an outlier in the sense that it's longer. She was apparently away for five days, most of the time you run into stories or people encountering fairies are people encountering aliens there they're free now even though they have this compressed sense of time which is common to both fairy and alien lore A lot of times it's not even that long It's like oh I thought it was 30 minutes then its been six hours okay well six hours is kind of long but it's no so long that you would starve or thirst to death So why are things, why are these other intelligences offering people something to eat or drink? It implies that there must be a reason that they want to do that.

24:53 So I think that's another reason because at some point when writing this book, I was like am I writing a book that is the equivalent of all things breathe? Everybody who sees an alien or fairy or sasquatch says they have eyes. Look at the commonality! And you know sort of I was able to talk myself off the ledge on that by saying this is weird. It's weird that people are having these very brief encounters and are offered something to eat It is weird and the reason I love that one so much as i just really enjoy stories of hidden underground civilizations or beings living inside something like a mountain because it has that crypto terrestrial angle to it. The idea that we are cohabitators on the planet with something else very intelligent and, I guess this is fairly common. I mean it comes up throughout history in a lot of these stories doesn't especially mountains

25:47 Oh, oh Lord yeah. I mean if again if you want to parse this all out most things that we talk about that are 14 or paranormal for lack of a better term come from the underground you know ghosts are buried people have suggested that Sasquatch lives in caves people maintain to this day that their underground alien bases fairy mounds and in the UK supposedly where the fairies live you know lake monsters dive underwater There's always this sense of submersion, of being subterranean. That's a very common theme. I don't necessarily think that that's – yes it's another thing in favor there being a commonality but I don't think that's necessarily proof that lake monsters are connected to Sasquatch too but maybe. It's interesting.

26:34 I have something to say about the idea of the subconscious, so this being like a manifestation or expression of that on some level. But yeah there's – we've had this fascination with something beneath our feet and every now and then something happens that gives us pause and makes us say maybe there is something to that. Well, like you said with the commonality of everything breathes or has eyes. In the past of course it's got to live somewhere and it wasn't until aliens really that the idea of living off planet came into picture so I guess its not that strange in the past to think they'd live on the only place we knew things could possibly live

27:11 Yeah, for the most part. You run into a few exceptions to that rule and I'm not taking the piss here. I am not giving you hard time just being a devil's advocate but you do look at ideas of Mount Olympus or Shambhala or something, Shangri-La Medieval France, the idea of Magonia, the kingdom in the clouds. But you're right for the most part there's this idea of descending this ... I mean again all the way back to Greek myth is idea that Hades is underground. Yeah we have this fascination with the subterranean realm And of course, you know those multi-dimensional angles too that people bring up. But I mean obviously encounters happen all over the map but the legends obviously do seem strong in the north we talked about Alaska and Iceland Scandinavia is big and even here i've heard the case made I think from Michael Mott again The case made that the legends of Santa Claus came from these beings who had come out In the harshest of the climates in the north and bring supplies down to the people

28:09 And of course there's no way to know, but that's probably my favorite explanation of what Santa Claus could be. It could relate to what we're talking about supplies. What would supplies be other than maybe food? Yeah I mean you run into a lot of them... You know in my mind immediately jumps too with an idea like that by the way Michael is definitely the guy who talks about subterranean entities! That's what his book is all about My mind immediately jumps to these stories. Have you heard of friendship island? No, oh you got it You gotta do a show on friendship Island man. It's this great story This idea that there's this um I'm probably gonna get something wrong So anybody just go ahead and yell at the podcast if you want to this idea that there's this is Island almost like The Lost Island off the coast of Argentina where this race of Nordic aliens live and every like

28:55 seven years or something they'll come on over to the mainland and trade goods with people always paying gold this is great story that it's one of those things that you dig into it has a really big branching rabbit hole but yeah, I did collect a bunch of stories about people about entities buying food are trading food but again That was one of those things where there's just so much data to work with because it seems like this is a niche subject. But man, once you start picking at it a little bit, it just all comes to the surface and there's... You have to pick and choose But yeah, I love looking at the pagan or occult origins of the secular Christmas trappings and Father Christmas and what not. I was actually thinking about that earlier today. Yeah man, i'm gonna have to look up Friendship Island for sure! In terms of your book it seems like there's more than a handful of stories of people who are invited into a house or restaurant of some kind and have a whole experience there leave then look back behind them and the place is completely gone

29:59 Yeah, there was a great story that I really like. I believe it was in somewhere on the West Coast of this family who were either on a road late at night and they couldn't find any place to eat and needed to eat. They pull into this odd shaped diner. This art deco diner with this dome roof and everything. And they go in And they – the wait staff is really friendly but kind of odd and they eat their food and they end up leaving. Once they get in a car to go leave, there are car won't start so that can kinda push the car out on the roadway and then it starts.

30:37 hour or so down the road, they start talking to people about where they ate. Everybody goes there's no restaurant there and everybody goes what are you talking about? Sure enough, they go back and there is absolutely nothing there. They had some at the same time as well. Again like why pose as a diner? You have That's another thing that you have, the conclusion I think if you're really interested in these subjects. You have to resign yourself too is that whatever we are dealing with is nine times out of ten completely in control the situation. So it seems like every action is deliberate in some sense so in that case why would i try to trick these people into coming with this diner and eating the food, it's another story that i really liked in that same thing was one of the book about a guy i think his name was jacob jackson history you recall that one. Yeah jacob jackson was scandinavian fellow in sweden

31:34 In the late 1700s, he was returning from an errand with his father when he saw this long road that just had appeared out of nowhere. Being a curious young man, he decided to set down that road and he ended up at this large settlement that he wasn't familiar with. There didn't seem to be anybody there until you entered one of these buildings and he saw these crowds of little people who were running back and forth in preparing this feast. There was a taller attractive woman who is supervising them all And she says, you know. Oh how wonderful you've come here would you please like to stay and eat with us? And obviously probably remembering the fairy folklore Jacobson says oh god please get me back to mom and dad! And like that he ends up back at where the road had begun although the road was gone then four days have passed even though it seemed it was still the same afternoon so thats a great little story I really do like that one because

32:29 Yeah again the idea of this a taller supervising entity is right out of modern abduction or two yeah that's exactly what i was gonna point out is that it's another crossover for the grades because there are stories of oh i came across six grays and at all white being with blue eyes and blonde hair. It's weird but that's another thing that makes you think possibly these phenomena connected Yeah, that's one of those details that people don't talk about in terms of connecting the two. But I just love it because there is another story that is a favorite of mine about a woman who had eaten a fairy plum and was trapped with the fairies and they were also supervised by taller entity. This woman who had been trapped with the fairies said you know, do not eat their food, it's all sham which again is this idea of glamour cloaking the food but also they are not Christians, they're star worshippers which to anybody interested in ufology is like this giant red flag

33:20 Yeah man and not to get too weird but that also makes me think about World War 2 and you know there's a lot of occult esoteric aspects to the Nazi party. And they were really into things like the hollow earth, and then they're into the Aryan race at which is of course blonde hair blue eyes. I don't know. I find that realm interesting, but you can start sounding pretty racist when you go in that territory. Well just because you're interested in those similarities, I do not think really means it. You can stumble into saying something that you would regret but there is this weird Nazi occult connection

33:58 a rich vein to research because there's so many connections there and so many of the strange beliefs that they had, and strange things that they were trying to track down for Hitler. It was just... Yeah, speaking of rabbit holes, it's a deep one. It's just a weird commonality but on a show called The Hireside Chats I do love that you stressed the idea that this food-and-drink connection could be psychedelic in nature. Can you talk to us about what brought you to that idea? Well, you know it's interesting because as somebody who is a relative neophyte to these sort of things I felt that there was nothing really of much deeper meaning to the psychedelic experience. You know it seems like the pop culture answer that a lot us just by hook line and sinker is that these are completely subjective internalized events created by the brain but

34:46 The more you look into it, especially with the use of entheogens which are supposedly God-releasing substances in different cultures around the world. The more you find that people are obtaining information that they shouldn't know when in these states. People sometimes have shared hallucinations under certain substances which to me implies some sort of objective component If you look at a lot of these substances as they're used in shamanic practice, specifically thinking about psilocybin mushrooms or the invoked subject ayahuasca. A lot of them have creation legends that have them being portrayed as gifts from the gods so if you want to sort of use this idea loosely I mean this is the ultimate example of what we're talking about in this book it's food from the gods that we can examine and It's interesting

35:34 There are a lot of similarities between the antigenic experience and experiences of alien encounters, experiences of fairy encounters. I mentioned the buzzing earlier people tend to be taken apart and put back together sometimes in these trips which is again a complete reflection of the abduction experience. Graham Hancock actually during one of his ayahuasca sessions claims to have seen an entity offer him food and he said, Oh no I remember Persephone. And he opened his eyes. Um, I spoke with a guy who was was having an ayahuasca session in Peru, who said that while he was out there sitting in the jungle he saw this stairway appear to his side that led into the earth. To this giant wooden door and he says – He's Irish so about at time a leprechaun popped up. He is like I'm Irish This what my culture is. I just identified it as a leprechaun And said hey how about you come have a drink with us?

36:29 And he's like, well sure. So he gets up to go and the supervising shaman just storms out of the hut and comes in grabs him and drags him back into the hut as if he knew what was going on So, yeah. There are these interesting little parallels there and it's tempting to say well these entities are giving people entheogens which I try to go to links in the book to say look that is not the case because A this doesn't happen in every encounter you know I would consider a motif of the abduction experience but its minor motif and B you know if these entities are giving you hallucinogen How do they first approach you without having a hallucinogen already in your system? To sort of lower the veil so that you can communicate with them, well they've already got to approach you somehow. I sort of come to some different conclusions personally about the role that this could serve and almost terms of symbolic capacity but there's a lot of symbolism between entheogens and between liquids people consume One of my favorite examples

37:30 comes from the work of the late Carla Turner, who was an abduction researcher who studied at length Ted Rice. Who is the subject of her book Masquerade of Angels and she was taken – he was taken at one point by some grey aliens who gave him a green liquid and told him to drink it. And he refused in these – you know, in the entity said no if you don't drink it, you're not going to go home which is nice little inversion of the food taboo and he ends up drinking it, gets nauseous, vomits. Sees his body coming... sees his soul rather coming out of his body at the same time has this immense feeling of love and if you look at that it maps almost directly onto the ayahuasca experience The ayahuasca is a purgative that makes you vomit You have these intense feelings of love people report out-of-body experiences It's quite startling how these sort of tend to overlap on one another

38:20 Right that story is really interesting because a lot of us psycho knots and psychedelic users talk about these being natural tools for insight but yet our culture of course is quarantine them in the lock unit cage for life if you start experimenting and then also with the. Alien abduction phenomenon or contact the experiences they're often taught things like you know look at what you're doing to the planet destroying the planet basically better ways to live and you could equate almost this to the same thing there like saying lucky got these tools here need to stop ignoring them and here let me force you take it. And have the experience yeah it's one of those things that

39:02 I don't approach these subjects from a new age angle, but at the same time you cannot deny that there is oftentimes if people are to be believed a very positive introspective component. And I think that's worth looking into and how it sort of dovetails with a lot of these psychedelic experiences of self-improvement. Agreed and none of this is an exact science but you mentioned Graham Hancock and I was lucky enough time with him in Armenia last year and of course like you said he's very experienced with ayahuasca and its main ingredient DMT which apparently our brain produces while we sleep. And we were talking about it, he is of the opinion that alien encounters could be just when the brain dumps DMT on us unexpectedly or maybe that's why some people have lifelong experiences because they have a chronic

39:51 chemical imbalance, not to say that what they're experiencing isn't real but they could just have the door open a little more often than the rest of us and I think that's a compelling argument. Oh i mean I absolutely think that that's that's a great idea um a great uh great theory and you know people get up in arms about it especially people who are entrenched in the extraterrestrial hypothesis but you know if there's not again like you said it's not saying that there isn't some sort of objective component I think To the contrary, there are a lot of times when people have again obtained knowledge or have some sort of truth revealed to them that really goes against it being an entirely subjective experience. Are there probably trips that are just goofy-ass trips? Yeah, they're probably are. You look at what the African Aboriginal lore holds that there

40:44 big dreams and little dreams. Sometimes a dream is just a dream, but sometimes you have these big dreams that actually have some sort of meaning and actually give you some sort of information from outside yourself. So I think probably these experiences are very much the same way. We talk about ayahuasca, like you said it's very in vogue, its' a bit of fad right now but we also talk about soma. Talk to us about that? Yeah, some is a giant question mark. No one really knows exactly what it was. It was beverage from the Vedic tradition most people agree that it was an entheogen but in terms of the exact components of it no one has really been able to determine that some people have proposed that its actually

41:29 It was actually a dilution of the Amanita muscaria, but I've had some people say that doesn't seem like a very good candidate because apparently thalassogaric is quite temperamental in terms of the dose. But yeah it also had these Hallucinatory, revelatory effects upon people. In Hindu mythology it was actually part of the great sea of milk that was churned by the moon god Chandra and because that is sort of synonymous with nectar of the gods Amrita which was actually lunar light that the gods of the Hindu pantheon eat It's this idea that perhaps this was some sort of entheogen that has been lost to time. Interestingly enough, there is a complete parallel with ayahuasca in terms of the lore around it because Soma wasn't once a beverage, a plant and a god just like ayahuasca people say that the drink is divine as mother ayahuasca. That's all one thing.

42:27 It's definitely interesting. And another Vedic connection that I thought was really compelling, talk to us about this the Aravedic diets and how they kind of relate to the commonalities with food and entities Yeah, this completely blindsided me. It came at me from out of nowhere. I'm fine with Eastern philosophy and I enjoy Eastern culture here and there but I am not somebody that you would consider as really into it in any sort of big way but once I saw that there was this particular trend that was happening it really was quite striking and the trend is

43:03 that for the most part what people tend to receive from these entities maps on directly with a Sattvic diet. Now, what is Sattvic diet? It's part of Ayurveda cuisine in the Bhagavad Gita they talk about three specific types of qualities that everything in existence has they are sattva rajas and tamas Rajas is the most negative, it represents lethargy and entropy. Rajas is change action being excited you know like a catalyst. And Sattva is the purest its calm its balance in order and certain foods reflect these particular traits

43:45 Specifically, in Ayurvedic cuisine anything that is rotten or that in general is meat or processed food or canned food is tamasic. It means it's an unpleasant sort of food you don't want that your body. Leftovers also fall into this category and some traditions eggs and garlic peanuts potatoes onions eggplants drugs and alcohol. It's all Tamasic. Then the next step up from that is Rajasic which are foods that you need a little bit of in order to give you the reason to get up in the morning. But they're foods that inspire change and then make you too impetuous as it were, scaly fish some in some traditions go into some traditions also fried foods candies normally with Tabasic food you think of teas and coffees spicy foods and then Sattvic foods tend to be sweet foods juices

44:38 honey, also dairy products, grains, nuts and seeds and vegetables. If you look at the emphasis that is placed upon foods that people receive during these encounters again it maps almost directly onto the Sattvic diet now the Sattvic diet is basically a lacto-vegetarian diet It would be easy to say, oh it's a lacto-vegetarian thing that people are receiving from these entities. But the interesting thing is the emphasis put on these different foods and sort of the order that they're in maps directly onto it as well. One of the most common things you find in fairy and alien lore especially is people are offered what they describe as juice drinks or fruit flavored drinks. And in the Sattvic diet

45:16 The number one Sattvic food is fruit juices. And you can just go on down the line, people are offered breads, people are offered juices, people are offered milks, people are offered vegetables and they're not offered potatoes, they're not offered onions, they're not offered meat for the most part so it's really interesting that it does reflect that Sattvic diet. Yeah and the Sattvic foods apparently are things that holy men in clairvoyance are supposed to use as well right? Absolutely absolutely so this is why you know i sort of come around a little bit on some of the more new age aspects of this phenomenon because we have the same foods that people are being given in these experiences being the exact same food that hindu tradition says

46:00 will lead to clairvoyance, will lead to a sense of inner peace. And there is this—there is a psi component, a telepathical psychic phenomena component to the abduction experience that people don't necessarily always want to acknowledge I mean then the most famous contactee probably Betty Hill experienced premonitions of friends deaths throughout her entire life That doesn't sound to me very much like a flesh and blood alien coming down and wanting to collect her DNA, just so happening to give her telepathy or clairvoyance rather. Or not really telepathy or clairvoyance it's prophecy... probably clairvoyance. I guess clairvoyance. Psychic ability? Yeah psychic ability anyway

46:42 You don't think about entities coming down and imparting that sort of ability to her. And yet, that's what she dealt with. Also you'll find some abductees who will return from their experience and will refuse to eat meat and who will adopt something like the Sattvic diet so you know that-that's something that once I found it seemed to be a really strong indicator that there perhaps is some sort of correlation between the two Yeah, I love that and we talked about cultural overlays that might have taken fairy encounters and morph them into alien graze in the modern times. And it's understandable how that can happen but something that makes these stories more credible is that the food and drink in these exchanges seems to stay barely consistent right? In that wheelhouse and even across the ocean where our Western diets are very much not the same sadvic foods you'd expect but yet the encounters still use foods from that category

47:34 Yeah, and it's interesting too because you know it is quite consistent. The only thing that isn't that consistent is the introduction in a lot of the medical pageantry of alien abductions, this idea of taking pills or injections. I think that pills and injections can be viewed as a variation on this idea of giving someone food. It's still substance that's administered but the question that I have is if someone is given a pill in medieval Ireland Are they going to describe it as a pill or are they going to describe it as a wafer, or a cracker? This is not a book with quantitative numbers in it because of all these vague areas. Because little quirks like that you have to sit back and second guess but its really interesting

48:25 It's really interesting to see how perhaps something that we would recognize today was misinterpreted back in medieval times. For sure, and a good example of this kind of thing might be the Joel Simonton pancake case. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yep! I can't have this conversation without talking about good old Joe Simonton. Yeah, it is one of those cases that is So famous that even if people don't know his name, you say it's the pancake case. They're always like oh the pancake case Joe Simonton Eagle River Wisconsin 1961 he's cooking breakfast and he hears this strange whooshing sound outside looks outside He sees what looked like two overtone bowls sitting in his yard giant with some people inside that he described as looking like dark-skinned Italians a

49:14 And he sees one of them holding this shiny jug in the air and he's like, oh well they must need some water. So he goes outside... He goes outside and grabs the jug comes back in, fills it up with water and as he's returning the jug to these Italian spacemen. He notices that one of them is cooking something on this what he described was like this flameless griddle so after they notice him looking at it they actually offer him these pancakes. He has given several of them, he has actually given four of them and you know the aliens wave goodbye and they depart So here's a good... This should be great! This should be really exciting because we have

49:52 actual food from one of these encounters. This should be important." He takes one and he gives it to a local judge, he takes one and gives it to J. Allen Hynek who I believe at the time was still attached to Project Blue Book with the Air Force. He gives one to NICAP, National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena, and he kept one for himself. It was claimed that they were all made up of mundane ingredients barley and wheat and just earthly grain Which is super disappointing because you know, you'd hope that there would be some sort of exotic strain or at least something that hasn't been on Earth in a while. Or something interesting like that but what is interesting and I think it's something that you can take away from this is he said they tasted awful almost tasteless which again mirrors this idea the fairy food as something that is cloaked to appear more appealing than it is And you know, he ate it and didn't taste like anything which seems to map onto that

50:48 But also really interesting is that there is some... European folklore that a specific type of fairy who lived on the Friesland Islands would actually help farmers in the field by giving them fresh water and pancakes. So it's a nice little connection there. Right, how is he supposed to know that? And apparently one of these pancakes might have ended up in a museum? Yeah I've heard that! I think Tim Beckley mentioned that there's a rumor that in like a glass display case at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, in the cafeteria. There is one of Joe Simonton's pancakes. I don't know – I hadn't found anything about that specifically but I absolutely love that idea. It's hilarious.

51:39 Yeah man this is all really fascinating stuff and I also really enjoy the work of David Politis. I know he comes up a lot in your conversations, he's got to and everybody is in this realm these days but uh... I wonder if some of these missing people that he talks about might be the ones who ate the food never came back? Yeah, it's compelling. I mean it's you know...I think that well with the danger of sounding like I want to glom onto his work because everybody I think wants to do that now he has become so popular but David is doing some great work and is really doing something that I think is important work and its interesting to see

52:15 how there's the small similarity that runs through some of his work of people going to pick berry bushes and someone wants you come back recall, being near a berry bush or going off to pick berries or something which I think might have something to do with this. You know? I always joke he's ruled out that it is not Sasquatch but i'm like no its gotta be fairies maybe it's fairies but yeah it's interesting I think there's perhaps little tangential connection right on man well the rabbit hole does run deep I really had a great time. I think that the book is a great addition to my Weird Collection and it's a unique take on something that can sometimes be oversaturated with those simple same old stories so, great job on Trojan Feast and just before we go tell people where if you have a website or where they can keep up on what you're doing and where they can get these books

53:04 Trevor Burrus I would love to. My website is joshuacutchan.com, J-O-S-H U-A C-U-T-C-H-I-N. I blog as often as I can on there. I think the latest blog is talking about how Deadpool was our first true trickster protagonist on screen I like the movie yeah i did too and it's interesting because you know everybody wants to call deadpool an antihero but he really is literally i think he's the first example of the first main character in a film that has been a trickster because straight up he is a trickster so I tried to sort of break that down. But, yeah some blogs and some stuff popping up there every now and then but yeah as termed in terms of where you can find at Trojan Feast you can find it Amazon or Barnes & Noble on their links are on this front page too click through those. Boom! Well thanks again man loved it and keep doing what you're doing out there

54:01 Hey, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me on this has been a great talk you got it man boom people Joshua Cutchin and atrogen feast following up soon with the book about strange smells in these types of encounters And I just love bringing on a guest once in awhile that's tackled these kinds of things that can just relay good creepy encounter stories Of course some people will inevitably say to me with everything going on in the world Don't you think there's more important things to cover and well? Well, the world is always on the apparent brink of chaos and you can't get sucked into that too much or you'll have a very anxious life. Besides when you examine threads like these you might actually get close to some hidden truths in there! When commonalities stretch across the ocean and across time you have to wonder if there isn't some underlying truth to what's going on and if fairies and aliens and the entheogenic experience are connected in some way I see that as a big deal.

54:52 We consider that a lot of the fairy lore comes from the uk and ireland in like mike mott pointed out how fitting that most these tales involve sexual or genetic component. If you were gonna carry out some kind of early monitoring or genetic farming campaign you start on an island place you can control, Of course now it's more of a widespread thing but that's gonna happen humans are more widespread than ever and of course how interesting that a large concentration of the stories in the old days also come from the areas of the largest reigning monarchs and elite european bloodlines. Of course correlation isn't causation all that good stuff, what if this phenomenon has anything to do with the elite or factors into the actions of the elite

55:36 Assuming they know more about it than we do that's probably even more important than some of the latest drama with russia. Who knows tomorrow i might feel differently but a lot of listeners have been requesting some sasquatch topics and I thought was a good way to touch on that and also dive deeper into the alien fairy connection what might be multi-dimensional or subterranean mystical beings we share the planet with in some capacity. That is more interesting to me than Sasquatch, but it ain't all about me I aim to please I mean that SADVIC diet connection is almost as interesting as the Rh- stuff to me. It's also great to connect entheogens to this realm where some researchers don't bring it up at all, but big thanks to Joshua for making it happen and quitting that day job! You know if you have any practical skill like teaching music you don't need to work for a school or hierarchical structure anymore The reason people did have to do that was because the school brought in students

56:34 But you don't need that middleman anymore. You can reach the students directly, you could reach people who want to learn directly and it's a beautiful thing to see more and more people realizing that and just walking away from that old system because that middleman never breaks you off what you're truly worth and you realize that when you make that direct connection I think it was Kevin Kelly who first brought up the idea of 1 000 true fans is all you really need or you could think of that as customers or clients If you can connect to them yourself, you can be yourself and your own boss. And I think that is the thing that can really save our system

57:10 I mean, i wish we could rebuild the whole thing but that doesn't seem likely in my lifetime. So remember that every dollar you spend on an independent person is one dollar weaker for the corporatocracy That might be the best we get But this just how technological progress is working itself out It happens in stages First a lot of people are realizing they don't need a home phone anymore And then some are graduating to cord cutting You don't need cable when you have Netflix or Hulu or BitTorrent But those aren't scary things to leave behind. It's the job, that's the big one! But what a tangent that was. So pulling it back in, the first hour was fun you know the second hour is no different we get into the Foyson concept where entities take only the essence rather than the actual food and that opens the door into offerings to entities and feeding off of fear and how that might tie into the fear campaign of The Elite or entities who try to tend to scare us first

58:07 or kids who are found tired or unconscious after going missing in the woods. There might be something to that energy drain, feeding on emotion type of thing. We also talk about habitualizing Sasquatch sleep paralysis and then a bit about Josh's work examining the trickster element in classical music And that's a bit of departure but we've seen music time to so many other things like math and science and possibly levitation technology, did you have to kinda talk about that someone who is a bit of an expert in see if they might have some of those more fringe ideas. So think about signing up you probably been listening the show for a long time

58:46 $5 couldn't really be much cheaper and you'll be doubly entertained. And the iPhone app looks like it's about done, we're just dealing with Apple's ridiculous certification process and all that good stuff but it should be here soon! Of course, the Plus Forums are becoming quite popular. I'm having a hell of time trying to keep up and I know the guest request thread is really backed up but have so many on my list already and that's the thing! I get about a dozen guests requests a day through Facebook Twitter email even Reddit even the HiresiteChat subreddit is getting some lately And I definitely bookmark all them but I have to look at the plus people first for that because they're basically

59:27 really the executive producers of the show. Also I get a ton of messages about where to get the music i use for the end of the show, again free downloads on The Plus site because The Plus members pay for it so become one and reap the benefits There's also a special direct messaging system where you can reach me a bit more easily than email or Facebook. And I also try to respond to anyone who posts in the introduction forum, I think i'm at 100% right now but you know how it works You've heard it before so I'll just leave it at that The world is weird place find your weird place in it Again Trojan Feast really interesting book and subject and I gotta declare this edition of the Midnight Society closed

1:00:11 Your move, entities of the other world and your odd consumable offerings. Your fucking move. Oh no You see The world isn't random It's attached to puppet strings Control over everything A nine-to-five is trying to steal ya Now don't that job seem silly? Hello Can you hear me? Or should I play back recordings from some spike agency Wish we were younger and free I'll be thankful when it's all exposed The vast conspiracy There is such a difference between us

1:01:14 And the dead run shy Hollow from a higher side They're calling out a thousand crimes They'll tell you the story Of everything that's been done Then they'll call out deception Of the web that's been spawned Hollow from the higher side The earth is hollow inside They'll tell you about something that no one else will Have you heard about Saturn? Have you heard about the real since the world? Oh, No

1:02:17 They're cartoons, it's so typical of me to talk about the stuff I'm sorry that's good and well Did you ever hear the argument? That nothing really happens It's no secret that the best is plush It's doubling your time Hello from the higher side They're calling out a thousand cries

1:03:00 Now tell me something that you really have done And now call out deception from the web that's been spawned Hello from the higher side Challenging your past I cannot tell you something that the battle's begun But we can fight it with violence The mind where is one as the world Hello from a higher side

1:04:07 They're calling out a thousand crimes. They'll tell you something the elite have done, and they'll call out deception on the web that's been spun. From the higher side challenging your paradise And I'll tell you someday that the battle's begun But we can't fight it with violence The mind's where it's won, and that's the war