John Kirwin | The Conspiracy Theorist Survival Guide & Advice For Persecuted Truthers

00:10 The fly puppet masters almost surely have a plan There's clearly nothing there on the show You've thoroughly tested every last close-shifted view Thinking all the less you really do Without THC, we know they're lying to us Just don't look too hard to grieve Without THC, our hearts are gentle

01:00 Hey all you cool cats and kittens from the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And while we might spend a lot of time talking about the conspiratorial threads we see—from false flags and pandemics to climate change policies in the seeding of a fake alien invasion—we don't spend a lot of time talking about how frustrating and isolating it can be when we're the only ones within our families or friend groups who see or care about these things. It affects some more than others, but the majority of people have been conditioned to see us as illogical, crazy, unhinged and even a potential threat. COVID showed just how easy it is for the big machine to break long-standing bonds and the ever increasing string of highly charged events we've been served up since is eroding whatever's left for many people."

01:49 What should be private medical decisions and personal political opinions are now the first boxes some people want to make sure they can check off on some made-up compatibility checklist. Society seems to be splitting down these lines, and many conspiracy minded folks fear being stuck on the outside of everything—not to mention that material itself can take its own mental toll, and associations between the big R rabbit hole and feelings of hopelessness, depression, and paranoia have been seen many times before. So today we're airing our Festivus grievances, talking it out and breathing a cathartic collective sigh of relief with John Kirwin the author of The Conspiracy Theorist Survival Guide A guidebook for persecuted truthers who knows the pitfalls of walking the path less traveled as well as anyone. John was a long-time day trader as well as being a worship leader and pastor for decades but because of his commitment to conspiratorial truths he has paid a heavy price

02:45 Although instead of giving up, he has transmuted tragedy into opportunity with his new book and material on his website wakeuporelse.com and conversations like the one we're going to have today so let's do it! The conspiracy counselor truth or therapist and shoulder to cry on for the newly segregated this holiday season John my man welcome to the higher side Wow, that's gotta be the greatest intro I've ever gotten. That is spectacular! Thank you. Ah, too kind, too kind...I try So you reached out with a copy of your book, which I appreciate. And I told you that the Christian framing isn't exactly my bag but then I heard you on several previous interviews and got into the book a bit and you do cover in area there's often neglected which is these social consequences of being conspiracy minded? And we're getting into the holidays

03:38 We're probably getting into gatherings where we might feel like the black sheep or the odd man out. And I thought it might be helpful for some people to at least feel like they aren't alone and know that others feel their same pain, or have similar situations." So these things kind of pushed me over the threshold and here we are! Let's start with your own awakening which i understand came from when you realized The Federal Reserve isn't exactly federal is that right? That is correct. It was back in 2017, I remember I was thinking of voting for John McCain when I look back on it now it's so embarrassing because when you're a normie your brain just shut off you don't have a grid for wanting to know So you're just doing life What happens though with the lot of us cause the matrix as we call it

04:33 is a physical construct, but it's also a metaphysical construct. So there's this aspect of it that's like, woohoo! It's like ethereal. It's like bewitchment and somehow there's an awakening going on. The Great Awakening is definitely happening I mean there are masses of people just Well, it's raining red pills. It's kind of hard not to like it's raining red pills man the normies must be tribulating anyway I get this tap on the shoulder from the holy spirit like I'm just like doing life and all of a sudden I notice hey The Federal Reserve isn't federal Like I realized it's a white building in Washington and it's called The Federal Reserve you know like Federal Express is not federal

05:22 But then I found out, because I'm in the financial markets that it's a private bank in Puerto Rico and blah blah blah. And I go wait a minute! As you do... Obviously these congressmen and senators know and it just like dawns on you that the whole system is lying through their teeth but this is the real punchline right here and many of your subscribers will relate to this When you have that first experience, this is your entry into the rabbit hole. You then ask yourself well if that's not true what else isn't true? Right? Absolutely! Down you go right and so this path in your case has taken you all the way to the flat earth and everything in between right

06:14 Let me give you my bio. I always like to do this just to set the record straight. Sure! After the Federal Reserve, I think the next thing i looked at was the moon landing because what happens is once you see...you start to see Because the filters come off. It has to do with a lot of things, but one of them is the reticular activation center that's a part of your brain that filters out things that are inconsistent with your paradigm so for instance if you decide you're going to buy a Honda Accord all of a sudden you're driving around now everywhere you look there's Honda Accords they come in through into your consciousness now where before they were filtered out So a lot of normies if I can use that term lovingly

06:58 Have this filter where you know, they're part of a tribe. They're normies The central characteristic of a normie is they don't know and they don't want to know that's their filter Well I started to know and then I started to look and so once you start turning over rocks Everything says conspiracy So the moon landing was easy 9-11 was next I was on 911 for about a year because that's a seminal one for a lot of people If you can get past 9-11 and still think that building 7, I mean you got the 2000 architects for a 9-11 truth. How do you get by that? It's true! They like wrote affidavits like they're like dude i build these things and knock them down okay building seven came down with controlled dentalists period. I'm like I believe you yeah

07:51 And you start to look, at least for me 9-11 was very important and I started to look into the concept of a false flag. And you realize oh my God most major conflicts involved a false flag at the start like the general structure of a false flag is really relatively common when it comes to mechanizations of the big machine moves on the global chessboard and getting us into wars or starting conflicts. So you just put it into that continuum and you're like, oh 9-11 is not this one off crazy event. You just put it in the proper context and It's what she should expect a lot of times. Yeah, The Lucy's have been very good at

08:35 painting this picture of America, the beautiful and how things like that wouldn't happen in modernity. False flags you know? Forget about Project Norwoods and the Gulf of Tonkin and all these things that are declassified but it just starts picking up steam from there after 9-11 although it was 9-11 wasn't the next thing then it was the moon landing. Moon landing at that point took me five minutes which Really boggles the mind because you're like, uh It took me 50 years to find out the moon landing was fake so then once you find out the moon anything flat earth is easy because the whole resistance to flat earth is how big it is and People have that priori argument or a pure egg. I forget how you say that but it's like you come to the table convinced there's no way the Earth could be flat because

09:26 all the governments and the media, and all the people would have to be involved in government. Yes they can! They sure can...and they are! It's only supposedly 536 people going into space or whatever anyway so underground bases reptilian shapeshifters The transpocalypse is probably the biggest gut punch when you realize most of the people that you see on the TV in the movies media, the government are the opposite. The guy's a woman and the woman is a guy on that one what did it for me there was I saw what's her name? I can't remember names she was playboy centerfold. I didn't actually see her. I just saw her on the cover right? She was a guy now as doing my research and I came across the fact that this was the first male Playboy model so she or Wikipedia thing said she was born a guy

10:25 Playboy's telling me she was a guy, so I'm like okay she's a guy. Well this individual was as beautiful as any woman i've ever looked at okay what that did was it created a template for me where I was then able to accept because your mind doesn't want to accept you know like the really beautiful movie stars and singers could be male right? Because they're so beautiful. Your mind refused to accept it well once I saw that she was a male and i was pretty strongly convinced she was a male the filter came off, right? And once you know the anatomical clues like the shape of the man's head versus the woman's head and the size of it the slope of the shoulders the ring fingers longer than women all of these anatomical clues are easy to see and you start going like

11:19 Oh, not her. You know? I mean you name it and they're all guys apparently this woman i was just wanting to get the name cossy c-o ss e y is her last name she was featured in playboy in 1981 and she actually was outed against her will so this was not supposed to be public knowledge and then once she was outed she reappeared in the magazine in 1991 That might surprise some people that it goes back that far. And I do have questions for you about the trans-pocalypse, as you call it and some of the names that are in there but before we get hung up on specific little things proceed on through maybe some of the other rabbit holes that you went down. Yeah well of course during this period of discovery I'm married to a beautiful woman who I loved at this moment but she's an army

12:17 and armies don't know, they don't want to know and they don't want you to know. And so that started the process of my marriage of 24 years ending in divorce like two years ago because the next one was The Mandela Effect now I'm coming from a biblical worldview i got radically saved at 23 ended up with a ministry full-time ministry for like 10 years in a big church then another 20 years in lay ministry as a worship leader I find out like the mirror, mirror on the wall never existed. It's magic mirrored Grand Central Station never existed was always a grand central terminal The Monopoly guy never had a monocle that was the one that really convinced me And you go down the line and there's thousands of these things There's just no way statistically well guess what? The things that are changing in our environment includes the Bible

13:14 Alright, this is a big problem for the church because the Bible seems to teach that it couldn't possibly change. Thy word is forever settled in heaven—well, it turns out that doesn't mean that because the term Scripture and the term Word of God are not the same thing and they're being conflated to mean the same thing. It doesn't say the Scripture is forever preserved on the pages of the book Right. And so I understand you have four kids with your ex-wife and Obviously you were in the ministry for, you say 24 years. I mean this has been a part of your life forever so this is clearly a part of their lives too Was this thing that like your wife said no more? was there like a final straw or was it like...I mean because i would imagine that if she thought 9-11 was a false flag she could probably live with that It's pretty inconsequential to one's life maybe covid had an effect maybe flat earth had an effect was there a single thing where she was just like

14:15 it's too much. No, it was the accumulated impact you know I'm mach 5 with my hair on fire so I don't you know...I'm a content creator! You know and on that note if it was flat earth or moon landing stuff I would have walked away for the sake of my marriage. I did actually I shut my channel down twice to try to save my marriage but what happened was because my sense of destiny around the bible changing and Church either doesn't know what's happening or refuses to acknowledge that it's happening I felt you know, like some men are born to greatness others have it thrust upon them. I had to do something And so I did not leave okay? I was asked to leave I did not divorce my wife over this and what I found Over the last seven years of being a content creator on YouTube wake up or else is my channel

15:13 I have interacted with tens of thousands of people and i've personally interacted with 200 probably that have been divorced by their spouses because they found out these things. The health emergency thing, are we on YouTube at all with this? I decide afterwards if it goes on YouTube. Actually, usually i put clips on YouTube because I'm on my last strike and this or that but my YouTube is not what it used to be the real meat is just the podcast feed...the audio so say whatever you want and let the chips fall where they may all right So because of what I call the monkey juice right?

15:51 There was a lot of marriages that broke up just over that. That's true, or the patriot movement has broken up tons of families it doesn't take all 10 or 15 big conspiracy theories it could be one and what happens is what I found in my research and being in this for seven years full-time is it isn't the truther for the most part. It is the normie that gives ultimatums, I was told if you talk about crazy things i can't have a relationship with you my kids told me that my wife told me that I don't issue ultimatums like that you don't listener

16:35 We don't do that. Okay, so my job in this world is to encourage you and to congratulate you for having integrity which is at the core of what drives you You found out things that were true but they were unpleasant and you decided I don't care what the consequences are I have integrity! I love the truth That's why we're called truthers But The normie runs a little algorithm in the back of their peanut brain that says, whoa if I question officialdom i'm gonna walk through a crap storm.

17:16 I'd prefer not to do that because first of all, I'm very smart and i'd have to be stupid for them to trick me into thinking the earth is flat so my pride won't allow me to acknowledge it's obvious. Plus if I do that I'm going to be raked over the coals like I do other people! So I better just pretend that this person is crazy See, the reason they attack you instead of having an intelligent discourse is because there's too much meat on the bones of our arguments. Okay? Why is the Earth round if I can see 50 miles at night as a mariner? I can see the lighthouse—the tallest lighthouse that's 400 feet tall and it's 50 miles away! There should be 1500 feet of curvature."

18:04 That is true. There's a lot of those strange things I know you've linked to Eric DeBayes massive YouTube video, I think it's six hours long and that was an interview I did that he makes a lot of really interesting points. I find it kind of largely inconsequential compared to something like COVID that was deep in everybody's lives on a daily basis and how they lived and acted but your book starts with this. It says if you journey down the proverbial rabbit hole and it has cost you friends and family, destroyed your marriage convinced loved ones you're crazy. And has made your life a veil of tears." This book is for you because I've experienced all four of these things. You told us a little bit about that

18:45 I've also heard you say that three of your four children won't talk to you and said, if you're going to talk about this stuff we can't have a relationship. That's extremely heartbreaking. I'm a new dad of two kids under two and I can only imagine that happening down the road it would be pretty brutal. And I understand the sense of purpose and destiny but man i just have to think there might be a point where I would think is it worth it? wouldn't there have been some version of events where you could be a little more subtle with your thoughts and still have this relationship and influence your kids, and still having intact family because what is life really about in the end i know you say you tried that but

19:32 We can have our controversial thoughts and keep them to ourselves when the cost goes beyond a certain point, can't we? Because if we think about what the elite really want it's to divide us and break up families. And to keep us all from climbing the ladder collectively together which requires some cooperation especially on family level look how they operate so did the elite win with you no because The sentiment of not shoving things down people's throat is valid, and I teach that myself. However when it's your wife that is opposing the truth and you have to try to be the husband and father of children where you're raising them, you're forced to make a lot of decisions together and your worldview just flipped upside down

20:27 And, you know I started saying honey I got off the bus. I can't do life like I used to. I can't clap like a trained seal when they trounce out the latest recruits at the football game because all wars are banker wars and I can't salute the flag because it's Jolly Roger and now I'm in American State National. I can't pretend the Bible is not changing sitting in church however what I did was I tried to do what you said. I remained quiet for two years But it got worse because the elephant in the room is you're a kook. You're a nut job My kids basically told me they're pissed off at me because they believe i'm a weak-minded boob That has believed photoshop tricks and then I chose those stupid lies over them So they're offended and there's no fixing that okay, because again

21:21 There was a number of times when I would go to them and say, honey look let's try to talk. Let's just share tell me how you're feeling? I don't want to talk about it." Okay so not only can you not reason with them and show them look Here's a picture of the earth from the moon and it's this big. And then you have a picture of the moon from the earth, and it's the same size but the Earth is four times larger how could that be? They won't do that! They will not use their reason to try to build bridges of understanding so your shut off your cutoff from reason and then you're cutoff from trying to talk about matters of heart So for two years I would go to dinner table just sit there and eat. I called it happy dad

22:03 I was forced to be happy dad and talk about hair, nails, movies, playdates, fun seasons in the sun. That's all they want to talk about." because the normie just wants their happy life. And what you are, truther... What you are is a buzzkill! Okay? You're a buzzkill and they don't want to be told in the superhero movies that The Portal is real and there's real wicked mad scientists like Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab and these people that operate in these very empirical realms all the way up the corporations of the IMF, the central banks

22:41 the Bank of International Settlements, the Bilderbergs, United Nations, Chatham House, Freemason Lodges all the way up to the think tanks and the Trilateral Commission. The Vatican Crown Washington you've got three city states then you get the Committee of 300, the Council of 13 and then the Pin Yard right? They don't care about any of those things They want to go play basketball, and I get it. They just want a dad who loves them and wants to be in their life." And I tried to provide that but i was given an ultimatum okay so here's my response to your very valid observation okay? I want you imagine two people one of them gets radically born again they're two atheists okay

23:27 two atheists get married, and then one of them gets radically born again filled with the Holy Spirit and loves Jesus all of a sudden. And the other one's looking at him like oh boy I'm glad you're happy but there's a complete paradigm shift to the worldview. And then after about let's say it's you okay Greg let's say you're the one that got born again and now your wife comes to you and says listen Greg i'm glad you're happy but you're gonna have to choose it's either Jesus or me I'm here to tell you that i would not even have to pray about that one. I would not even have to think very long honey, I love you but if you're going to throw down the gauntlet...I'm sorry but I'm going to have to

24:11 Take door number two where Carol Merrill is now standing right and that's fair to say I actually think about this quite a bit Luckily my wife is on my page with a lot of this stuff. She was very Supportive in me starting the show which has just been insanely lucrative and successful and it's gotten me out of shitty job in the rat race and so you know she gets that she might not let it occupy as much as her mental space says it does for me but, Are you with any of it like she's very much open minded on that page but there has to be all kinds of things. That breakup marriages as you mentioned someone becoming born again or someone deciding their gay are trans or a number of things and

25:00 i just don't know how exactly to feel about that because when you make a commitment to a person and then you radically change the direction. Of your own ship i mean that's not what they signed up for so i think it's important have a lot of these conversations before marriage and Make sure, especially with the vaccination thing you're going to have kids probably. And when you make that decision it also means that you can't go to most schools and it means that your family might have real problems with it so you have to be able to stand your ground So yeah, that kind of stuff is important Of course some people's awakening comes after the point of marriage and there's nothing you can really do about that but

25:44 Uh, you know when you get married and you have common belief systems and worldviews. I think if you alter that worldview and you go 180 degrees in a different direction, I don't necessarily a lot of times fault a partner for being like well i'm married to straight man now your telling me your gay woman? Like just use extreme example that does happen It's not always their fault. I don't know exactly what could be done about that, but something I think about a lot is that phrase ignorance is bliss you kind of touched on that? I know people who are actually happy with low wage long hour jobs because they've never had the thought about how much better it could be and when I had a regular job, I remember how miserable I was there were nights where my now wife would be in tears saying I love you but I worry that your never going to be happy and

26:39 I honestly wasn't going to be able to let a job take 50 hours of my week and barely pay enough to scrap by. And so we were in a situation where I threw a Hail Mary pass, and it worked out but she was like, I can't be with someone who's going to be miserable forever. So you figure it out or this just won't work. And luckily I figured it out but I've thought a lot about that phrase because sometimes, I'm jealous of those who can work a shitty middle management job for some typical corporation and be happy. I actually would get envious of that and start wishing that I was more ignorant so I could just enjoy the basic life because it's a lot easier to achieve that when you think that that's the path. It gets difficult.

27:28 I don't know, a lot of things in here and i'm sure a lot of listeners have dealt with one aspect of it or another but we walk uh a wobbly road man. Well I'll apply what you just said to the journey of the truther because you said a spouse might say I can't be with someone who's going to be miserable their whole life well that becomes the perception of the normie because When you become a truther, one of the things that happens is your values change. Your ideals change what you prioritize. You basically go from living on a cruise liner to living on a battleship, you go to a war footing because you find out the people that run things are actually Luciferian blood-drinking pedivore psycho mobsters and they have an agenda to kill everybody I mean that's what the Guidestones told us reduced the population of 500 million well hello they've operationalized that whole thing and we were right

28:31 but they don't know that still to this day. They don't know that and so you're all of a sudden freaked out, okay? And then you're finding out all these rabbit holes and so you're looked upon as obsessed by your spouse So it creates a very intenuable family dynamic when you start finding out all this horrible stuff Like most of what we traffic in is bad news right? So what happens though is You're implacable. You refuse to come off of something because you have an instinct for survival, right? I don't take kindly to being slow killed and enslaved. No. All right? The whole tax scheme is a terrible enslavement that we can escape from

29:15 That would not go over with my wife. There's no way she would bite down on being in a state national and repudiating your 14th Amendment status, and talking back to the police and all this stuff is crazy to her! So they view you as going rogue, and they view you as falling in with a bad crowd because now you're unpatriotic. No, you are the most patriotic. And so one of the greatest revelations was when I looked up the term normal in the dictionary because my daughter said, Dad I wish you were normal. And I looked it up and normal means you're in compliance with the rules well that's the opposite of a truther. A truther is now questioning the rules they're now beginning to question for the first time

30:03 and you're looking, okay? But the normies like the British guards. You know the British guards where they just look forward and you go up and go hey! And try to get them to like look right? Normie's don't look They will not look at your three ring binder, okay? Filled with evidence. You're thinking the shock and awe approach. Well surely if I show them enough examples they'll be convinced! That's a great point and i like that you've talked about that before that in the truther mind it's just like oh well they haven't been presented with the right evidence yet they haven't been presented with the facts like i have and then you present them

30:42 and they still don't see it. And that's because it is a faith-based argument, they believe in the structures of the system, they trust the system, they have faith in it and you can't break faith with facts. That is why I'm so averse to religious thinking. I have faith in my own discernment and that's basically it. I can I can't trust some old book. I can't trust some preacher, I just can't because there's too much manipulation, too many layers of propaganda and so

31:19 I have an open mind and take in a lot of different perspectives and different information, but I keep it all kind of at arm's length because it just seems wise to do. And if there is a God who looks at this system the way it is and the way that I'm choosing to navigate it and thinks that I've done something wrong and deserve to burn in hell then fuck that god! I don't care!" That's kinda my general perspective because Imagine getting kicked out of a Mormon family for wanting to do something different or getting kicked out of an Amish family for wanting to have a Zoom conversation like we're having right now. People put arbitrary rules out there and say, you must live within these guidelines whether it's a normie cult or a religious cult I don't see a ton of difference

32:09 Tom Miller Sure. I get it, man! There's a lot of questions around how God runs this universe and after walking with this God for 40 years—I finally came to where He spoke to me once and he said, John do you have any other questions before you're ready to follow Me? So basically the answer to some question is there is no answer on this side of eternity And so Jesus said, you got to come as a child. So the issue is—a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. So your arguments sound rational until you meet Jesus!

32:51 So I walked into a church at 23 years old. My goal at that point was to be a rock star and have a Porsche with the car phone, that was what was on my radar okay? And at that point I was the biggest drug dealer in high school. I started smoking when I was four and so I'd already lived three lives long story short by the time i walked in there. And I go into this little church Newark New Jersey and it was just about you know 50 people whatever and this little old lady on the out-of-tune piano, and this teenager on the drums. And they're singing this song like lift Jesus higher! Lift Jesus higher! And to me, the rational part of me was like whoa I'm looking for an exit strategy. I didn't want to embarrass myself or anybody but this was so corny however okay there was this other compartment of me

33:44 that all of a sudden was feeling like warm cream being poured into my dark soul. Hey now, so all I can tell you it was love on steroids in the air so that seized me i was like whoa and the people had joy and they're free and I don't know man it was just another world then this is just singing going on And I'm thinking, whoa this is awesome. This is better than the coke! This is like what I've been looking for those are the thoughts that started going through my mind and so then the guy tells a sermon you know Romans 6. I remember telling the lady hey why did you tell him about me? That's what I told her and she said honey I didn't tell him about you

34:29 So the Word of God, we don't read the word. The word reads us so at the end I'm just telling you my journey man that's the end of the thing to guy says if You're here today and you're not absolutely sure you go to heaven you can come up from received a gift of eternal life And I was like if I went to died right now. I'm absolutely sure it wouldn't go to have So I jumped over to Pew and I said the little prayer, and nothing happened. No bombs, columns of light, nothing. But the next day, I'm down in the basement with Tom Daglish and my friend Rob Paul were getting high they passed me the joint and I looked at it and I was like, I'm not interested. Oh say it ain't so but God made the plant Bro! What? I had changed. I looked at it And I was like you can't get higher than the most high. I was already high

35:16 Well, it's nice to be inspired for sure and dig it lots of people have felt the warm cream in the dark corners of the church but In terms of the archetypal thing we're talking about, the conspiracy theorist who awakens and their life kind of falls apart. Funny enough that is the sort of thing I've tried to transmute through the course of this show. I've tried to reinforce the idea that your worldview should serve you or your worldview should improve your life thinking critically it should be an asset in one's life not a liability if it isn't maybe there needs to be a new approach

35:52 And I know every situation is different, but the system does try to pigeonhole and isolate us as your book discusses. But with a lot of this material what are we really talking about? Avoid the pitfalls of big pharma eat organic avoid glyphosate make sure your water is clean and unfluoridated have a proper sense of what fiat really is and how the economy works never get too vested in any politician Avoid the rat race life. No job is ever going to pay you what you're worth independently, no one is gonna save you so you have to pull yourself up and thrive despite the uphill battle." So there's a version of things where the fruits of these bullet points provide a positive example for what it is to be in this camp—a healthier person who

36:40 doesn't eat the mainstream shit, a happier person than one who tried to work in some shitty company because that's what they thought they were supposed to do. Even a more mentally stable person than those being traumatized repeatedly by the next news cycle. These are the kind of things I think about because they paint us as paranoid while am i paranoid or is it the person mind-controlled by mainstream TV? That's paranoid we're thought of as irrational largely unhealthy, living in some basement not getting sunlight and all this. I disagree so i try to flip a lot of those things because as you say in the book the CIA invented the term conspiracy theorist as a pejorative and I guess I'm trying to take that culture back or say there's gotta be a way that truth can serve us and make our lives better and screw your

37:33 perception or your projection of what a truth there really is. I'm going to flip that the worldview has to serve you, or it's a bad world view and i cannot conclude that our worldview is bad or wrong. Great awesome okay so you said a lot first of all here's a million dollar tip This is in the book. When I was silent for two years, I still was getting persecuted because we'd be watching a TV show or whatever with the kids and the term conspiracy theory would come up and they'd all look at me and giggle. Well that's disrespectful! That's shaming me and I didn't appreciate it. I'm trying to comply with your gag order and your censorship and iIm still getting slimed so...I came up with this

38:15 hold up your right finger, say excuse me I may be mistaken but i am not crazy and I'd appreciate it if you didn't use those terms to me. It's very disrespectful when I started doing that man things really started improving for me okay because you mentioned obsession is an attack vector okay in other words if you're in a burning building you should be obsessed Okay, you just found out that the world is run by Luciferian blood-drinking psycho mobsters. A normal person reacts to that very dramatically not like the normie does where they don't want to know it looks like you're watching a movie night on Friday night and two thugs kick the door in and you just look up and you go oh isn't that interesting? And you go back to watching your movie. That's what we observe

39:09 But they use obsession as a way to manipulate. So in other words, obsession is a character flaw in their mind and it states that you're messed up and you're now disqualified from being my guide and my instructor and warning me and talking to me about... You have to go over and fix that problem in your life first before you can... so it's a way to shut you down. It's another personal ad hominem attack but That is part of the mind control, what I call the death to truth algorithm. There's no rational reason for the normie to act the way they do. So i'll give you an example it's in the book...I had this one pastor that we reached out to. I called him up Pastor Tom right? Mild-mannered guy! I'm like listen my wife and I are having some conflict would you mind just sitting down with us

40:00 and just try to mediate. Sure, John no problem come on over let me ask you what do you guys wrestle with? I'm like well iIm part of a growing number of people who are beginning to question things like the moon landing the shape of the earth flat and stationary like the bible says and i'm doing content on the Mandela effect and the bible's supernaturally changing in time's prophecy and he's like well if that's what you believe you're nuts and i can't help you click Now, a minute later the guy calls me back and apologizes. But that's an example of a triggered response that isn't consistent with these people's character." So they jump in your grill and they don't have a rational argument. They attack you! And then you have to defend YOU. You're like, well, that's irrelevant... It's just a battle we are in and we have to realize

40:57 And so in response to your statement, though what's the response to this? That's what you're basically saying. The response to tyranny is to be salt because a lot of folks are trying to lay low. I'm going to lay low and go along to get along. Well no those days are over they're coming for us and you have to be like William Wallace okay all men die but not all men live and they're going to come for you in a hundred different ways. I mean, they've blown up 120 food manufacturing plants since January. You're derailing trains and chemical spills to drive you into the 15-minute cities. You got this ghoul John Kerry parading around in his private jet telling us that we have to shut down the farms because their carbon footprint...I mean these people are obviously

41:55 WACO, and then they're weaponizing the IRS. They're going to drop the minimum reporting to $600. And so everything's going to go to them. They're closing the banks. FedCoin is in operation. The pandemics—this first one was just a test case to see how we would respond They're using lawfare to put people in prison, Jan six and all that. They're debanking people if you get out of line it's like the credit scores around the corner they're trying to start world war three in Ukraine that didn't work so they jumped over to Israel and of course the censorship is just ratcheting up and it just goes on and on and on So what are you going to do? You're gonna do what you do bro! Do

42:37 Do it. I agree with so many of those things that you said two quotes come to mind You made some points about obsession that were good when it comes to the material and our tendency To get obsessed with it and keeping an eye on every little thing. I kind of think attention is a currency, and they want our attention one way or another. Does it matter if we're spending eight hours a day on conspiracy blogs, or MSNBC, or Fox News? Does it matter as long as our focus is on an obsession about their machinations up here rather than what actually hits our lives are potentially hypotheticals?" I think you can find this quote attributed to Terrence McKenna and Alan Watson all kinds of people. I think it was in Huxley's book though

43:26 But the quote is, when you've got the message hang up the phone. So it's like I understand that everything is twisted and unfair and I understand there's a power hierarchy and it's kind of hidden behind the matrix veil Not that I've hung up the phone, this is my job. But for most other people like when you see some of that stuff it's like okay i get it now i'm going to go live my life according to my new understanding and the other quote when it comes to dealing with others that comes to mind When it comes to how do we navigate when so many people disagree with us about these things

44:07 It's a quote from Hamilton where he says, talk less smile more. Don't let them know what you're against or what you're for and I use that a lot when I'm navigating through life and there's people I enjoy their company. When we play golf they don't need to know what I think about 9-11 they barely need to know what I do for work as long as we can have a good time one route there and there's a high laughs per minute ratio. That's what I'm looking for in a good time." So, I think it's actually good to keep our thoughts closer to the chest sometimes so that we can actually improve the quality of our experiences with other people which i think life is about experience and trying to have more good times than bad

44:57 I think what you're talking about is, what's your priorities or what I call your ideals. Your ideal might be enlightenment so you might have a life path that's more like a Buddhist monk where you spend most of your time in deep meditation and fasting and practicing being in the present—like chop wood carry water Or it might be contribution, which is your ideal where you have a sense that you're on a crusade to make a difference. You only get one life to live and you have a sense that you're born for greatness and there's a sense of destiny behind a lot of truth or decision—to carry the truth, to be an agent of change—their sense destiny has come to them

45:48 and they feel a burden to respond no matter what the cost. That is a major theme, I just wanted to focus on that theme for a minute because it's definitely in the mix that people get some would say delusions of grandeur when it comes to...I've got to carry the torch for this conspiracy this knowledge that I've learned I've gotta shout from the rooftops And yet, a lot of us also acknowledge that this is an individualized process of awakening. A journey and it can't really be sped up for other people the three kids that won't talk to you today in two decades they might think that you had it all right but you're not going to be able to speed up their process of awakening You can lead a horse to water Can't make them drink and all that stuff But for a lot of people who start to get these feelings

46:40 Of i must now be a profit for the flat earth or 911 afforded water chemtrails are whatever it may be where does that usually go and I think you can tell by the fruits if the. idea that this is part of their destiny is accurate or if it's a miscalculation. Because, a lot of times I see people take that tact and spiral into obscurity and my assessment of that is well you clearly didn't find the right life path or would have gone in different way Yes! The idea that you can tell them by their fruits...the fact that I'm divorced and kids don't talk to me

47:25 would maybe be used to suggest that my manner of dealing with these things is incorrect. However, that is not a measurement of how truth impacts Jesus said I didn't come to bring peace but a sword and I will pit mother against father son against daughter and the members of your own household will be your enemies. And so 12 disciples 11 of them were martyred Some of them terribly. Peter was crucified upside down, and then the last one was exiled on the Isle of Patmos. So a trail of dead bodies behind you doesn't necessarily mean that you're off.\ Well what should be the measure? That we are on our individualized life path.\ Let me just respond to this is another super important observation you made. And that's the observation that people can only come at their pace. Well, the problem with that concept is

48:24 that you don't know who is ready. Because what I find in my ministry on YouTube, is that people come across my video and my video is the thing that gets them to look and then they are convinced! So I don't know who's ready but by being a voice to the topic, I am able to convert a lot of people. And then my goal is to help to disciple them, to educate them. Okay now that you're one of the kooks and the people around you are not happy with you how do you deal with that? So that's my response to what I call fatalism. Don't bother talking to anybody because they need to find out on their own no! That's not how it works we're supposed to tell and warn It would be like if your walking down the street and your family is two in the morning but there all asleep but their house is burning

49:20 Okay, you're not going to say oh it's none of my business. That's just their journey to burn a lot right? You gotta step into stuff man be nosy and do things I get that point i do but i guess i don't see it as my responsibility to convert other people Live my life as an example. That's kind of what I was getting at earlier with the archetype. It's not true Greg Look at you, you're a podcaster What are you talking about? You are an influencer? Converted I'm preaching to the converted no No your discipling your trying to bring your point by bringing me on okay or bringing your guests on your

50:04 acting as an agent of change. So I don't really think you believe what you're saying." Well, going back to that archetype they try to paint conspiracy rabbit holes as something that will derail your life now. We're talking about someone who has had some issues in that department but i guess im saying Like, here's a great example. I have this artwork that i keep on my desk that is COVID artwork. It's a family walking maskless through the crowd while everybody else is paranoid with a gas mask on and that kind of thing I think there were a lot of memes during COVID that hit at that truth, which is like no the conspiracy theorist is the one who has less fear than the normie. And that's kind of the archetype I try to project like my life is so much better because I learned

50:58 that I was trapped in a matrix. I have navigated accordingly, got out of that shitty job become my own person made a successful business as an independent person and i get more sunlight than I used to because I understand the value of it. I eat better food than I used to because I understand the value of it and in every category my life is better from going down the rabbit hole and that's kind of what You know, I'm trying to get at is. I try to lead by an example like there's people in my life that definitely aren't conspiracy theorists but they look at me and they're like man what part of his life isn't together? And i hope that inspires them to take the same journey. I don't have to tell him anything. I just have to show. And I think that might be a better approach for some people maybe when your kids see

51:49 how successful you've gotten and all these different things that you could manifest over the next 10 years. Maybe they start coming around, say man dad isn't crazy because a crazy person couldn't achieve these things Yeah, social proof. But see they don't want to know about my social proof." So it's kind of like if the cops came to my door and said does so-and-so live here? Like they named my son right yes well we're here to arrest him for murder well you must have the wrong house then they confirm it's him and then they say well that's impossible and then they say well we have proof! And this is what I would say...I don't care what proof you have

52:31 The people that were trying to show the social proof, you know that I have millions of people that want to listen to me and you think i'm crazy. What does that mean to you? They don't care! They refuse to let it go in so the truth or journey is very common for it to be a rocky road okay It's not easy to have your worldview turned upside down to find out that the infrastructure, the power structure is lying including the media. Like that was the biggest impact thing when 9-11 okay I remember what really got me was i watched Loose Change or one of those documentaries and it showed like two or three commercial airliners that had bird hits okay on the nose cone so the nose cone of the plane is completely imploded right from birds

53:22 All right, yet the media shows me the plane hits the thing and then it comes out to other end for about two or three seconds. And then nose cone is fully intact So, their CGI messed up. They allowed the plane to go all the way through with the full nose cone went through... I don't know thousands of feet of concrete and steel and perfectly intact that's what convinced me. You're in the CGI planes camp okay? Okay i get it but here's what I want to say is your story is not over you're in a difficult chapter but your story is not over you might actually be thankful for this chapter in the long run. Your bonds with your family, kids in particular may be stronger at the end and you can on a daily basis navigate towards that with intention I believe. Well let me just point something out...you are one of the few that are very fortunate

54:19 because in my interaction with thousands of people, there's basically three types of spouses for a truther. The first is what I have lovingly—my wife is awesome! I begged her not to do it. I begged her three months ago, Honey, I love you this is madness. I want to be married to you don't do this I don't want to be married to you in two different worlds." So the normie is just like, no! Shut up or else. And then the second type of spouse is one that is a normie but they have grace so they allow you to have your obsession

54:57 They don't want to really talk about it, but they're not going to break up things over it. Okay? And then the third one which is the luckiest one they are married to a truth. So you got two truthers and that's fairly rare what's the most common as my situation Yeah and I think a part of it for me was going through this process very early. I mean I'm talking about this stuff in high school and college unless its filtered into a lot of my relationships from the ground up It wasn't some radical change I made after making a commitment to a person and starting in the family, and then taking it in a different direction. Which is kind of what I meant by that earlier stuff but really it's just that me and my wife might not agree on every single thing top-to-bottom but we trust each other's discernment and we trust each other's logical process And as long as we always apply

55:50 a similar type of logic to various situations, even if we're not exactly 100% aligned. We can see where the other is coming from and we have faith in each other that neither one of us is going to radically disrupt the ship and suddenly become evangelical or trans or any of the wild things that could derail a stable situation And I guess, I'm very fortunate for that. And I didn't necessarily calculate that out it just...I got lucky! I guess? I suppose? Yeah each situation is really different like there was a next-door neighbor that I had who was a total truther. We would have talks over the fence and she'd be like so do you know about the project Bluebeam? Of course! Really?!

56:41 And so she was down the rabbit hole, but she had a husband who was very successful. He had like 13 rental properties he retired from Duke Energy and they were living large and she didn't say boo okay to him or two kids She was total secret agent and I totally understand all right me? my wife and stuff, and then after a while I shut up. But I was like, I got to go over here and make videos okay? See what iIgot was an ultimatum that I can't even do that. I basically had to recant. And I was gonna do it but I had this kind of vision... It wasn't like a vision. I was just sitting there and all the sudden I imagined Peter the Apostle Peter now this guy was a fisherman right so he was just doing life

57:26 and it says, Jesus came along and said, follow me I'll make you fishers of men. Ten words! And it's the next verse as he immediately dropped his nets and followed him. So this is what I imagine—and then of course Peter goes on to be an apostle and all this stuff—imagine if he went back to his house and he was like, honey, I met the Messiah and I'm gonna follow him." And she's like, what? What are you talking about? How are you going to provide for us? You're a fisherman. Your father was a fisherman. Your grandpa...You're not going anywhere! And what if Peter went like this? Yes dear. Yeah i guess the whole story would be different. Yep

58:11 But yeah, man. It is about that time where we wrap things up I guess i'd like to try to put a finer point on the book's themes and your message To the conspiracy minded trying to avoid these feelings of isolation frustration depression and all the rest of it stuff That often does hit a bit harder during the holidays in which we are in the midst of what would you say? In summary advice for the persecuted truther As we get into the holidays and the end of the world, or end to the world Freudian slip. End of the year? Yeah what would you say? All right, well the book is called The Conspiracy Theorist Survival Guide. You can get it on Amazon. It's available in audio or paperback you can also get it from my website wakeuporels.com and it's a guidebook for persecuted truthers. It's an emotional spiritual intellectual guide that's going to help validate your position give you guidance. People say they can't put it down if you're a truther you're gonna love the book now

59:11 What I would say in closing is being a truther is kind of like going bald. You can go bald and be happy, or you can go bald and be obsessed and depressed about it but either way you're going bald okay? So you're a truther man! You're a truther lady and there's nothing you could do about it. You can't unsee what you see So you can't put yourself back in the box and go be a normie. So, you're gonna have to figure out how to walk the walk and that's what I talk about on my channel Wake Up Or Else How do you do this? Because this is a nightmare Okay, I cry every day almost without exception I cry every day And there are a lot of people...I mean I have reams of people who posted John McKiss don't talk to me My wife and I are ready for divorce

1:00:05 It's universal! You're an exception, Greg. The impact of finding out this stuff and the pushback is universally the same." That's why the book resonates so much with me. Be encouraged, okay? Be encouraged. You're not wrong! You're not crazy! It's not your fault! It's the fault of the normie! They are dragging you through this crap storm they don't want to know and they should know The truth is NOT optional, okay?!

1:00:45 It's not optional if you have integrity. They're lying to themselves and to you, and then instead of dealing with it they're attacking you to shut you up! It's really evil okay? So be encouraged. You're a good person, and the reason that you want to tell people about what you found out is because you care. That's a good attribute okay? I agree. Well said, and it's hard to not be bitter at the normies because if they would get on board with us we could build a better world the only strength we have against the cabal is our numbers so when they break us up into all these different camps that fight amongst each other and they keep the truth hidden yeah it's hard not to be frustrated because we know we could build a better world but

1:01:35 The people who should be aligned with us to do so are still drinking the Kool-Aid. Yes, that's a sad thing and I really empathize for you. I absolutely loved the book and I understand exactly the things you're talking about it's not that it hasn't happened on the periphery of my life It definitely has but it just hasn't really affected my core You know thank God But I see it happen all the time. I know people who have gone through this process, and I seriously empathize with it. It's just really sad to see because when I think about the elite's plan at the end of the day, it's to divide us so that when we are divided from our loved ones and our house is divided against itself

1:02:19 Well, that seems like what they want ultimately. And that's unfortunate that it happens because when you look at how they've built wealth through the generations it is multi-generational. It's putting their families in positions of power. It's having a lot of kids to cover the spread and a certain sector and dominate. When we are separated from our wives and kids, we can't do that And they love to see that. So it sucks that awakening can sometimes feel like one step forward, two steps back in a certain sense your story is not over the people listening their stories are not over

1:03:00 Maybe you've been through a rough patch and a rough couple of years, but maybe the people in your life will reach an awakening point and a crisis of consciousness with their worldview. And they will immediately have the thought, huh? Maybe dad was right Maybe my brother was right. You know, these kind of things and you'll be the first person on their list to help them reconcile with their new understanding of the world so I wish you the best! that reality does manifest for you. I've had a great time talking to you, we've laughed, we've cried and no family should be broken up over this or anything but i understand how it happens best of luck out there congratulations on the book thanks for talking to me and keep fighting the good fight! Greg thanks so much for having me it was a great interview i really appreciate how you

1:03:52 Handle the interview and I thank your audience for receiving me and appreciate the time to share my journey. Thanks so much. Of course, cheers. Happy holidays guys! Man, I really did think this was interesting and fun. I've seen John popping up on a couple other podcasts, so i'm glad that other hosts are responding to his call as well The thought with this one really was to talk about how we approach these topics with other people, how we incorporate a conspiratorial view in our lives the common situations we might find ourselves and just showing a little solidarity and that we all likely experience some of these things. Do at least a small degree

1:04:43 I've had my worldview affect relationships, just not really ones that were as consequential as the ones in John's life. And i definitely was not trying to flex or rub in how an alternative mindset has improved my life but...I really was just trying to compare and contrast our journeys with the listener in mind In that spirit of the thought that maybe these common side effects of being red pilled, as they say can be an asset rather than a liability. And I'm not even trying to be an example. I know that it's all this show that I have to be thankful for and almost nobody is going to leverage their enjoyment of alternative takes into their new career as a podcast host. That's not the point.

1:05:36 But it's a cliche in the conspiracy subculture that it can wreck your life and cause you to go down a schizo paranoid spiral. And it is a cliche and a stereotype because there is some truth there, It definitely can do that but also improves one's life in the simple way we don't get caught up in the last round of propaganda...and probably have healthier hearts after the last few years But we also know how important it is to limit our exposure to toxins and eat a whole food, all natural diet. Through this process I think we've learned to better appreciate and lean into nature grounding good sun and just divesting from the offerings of the death promoting industrial chemical system social media another thing i would hope that we've learned to keep at arm's length

1:06:31 There's a lot of stuff that we learn about that is not actually all that controversial and can be implemented without having to explain anything big picture. And by that standard, by that metric how is the knowledge if implemented not an improvement to one's literal life? And health! The only one we have it might hurt us socially but if a lot of that data on our side then it must result in improved individual life But regardless of how it affects some of our relationships, we know you can't beat people over the head with this stuff. There is always the desire to share new knowledge as John mentioned. You learn about a new topic and you just want to talk to everyone about it but I think restraint is important. It really does help me to have a mindset of...I know what I need to know and I only share with people who want to hear

1:07:31 I don't mean to be condescending towards the other people in my life, but they have their own strengths and their own qualities that I respect that I don't have. And I love them for other reasons." I think about a buddy I used to have who was just obsessed with dubstep morning noon and night. Well dude i don't really like that stuff so I can't vibe with you on much else if that's going to be the single dimension to your life I like to think what we do here is a little bit more important than a digital musical genre, but conceptually there's a parallel there. The perspectives we hear on this show are important but maybe we can find better ways to represent the truth. Maybe we can just embody it rather than constantly pontificating about it." I shouldn't speculate on John's personal life because I don't know anything more than what he shared today

1:08:30 But is there a world where John's family sees John after a few years with new eyes, looks around at the state of other people in the world and then looks at John and thinks that he seems like he has reached an enlightened level of wisdom. He looks his healthiest even! Maybe it is obvious to them that he appears to be the best version of himself they have ever seen? Maybe they start to think my dad is a person whose advice and guidance I'd be lucky to have access too. Or this version of my ex-husband is so attractive now that I worry it's me who could never measure up! I think that option exists for John, and if I find myself in similar position as him, I would like to think stepping into that would be my highest priority

1:09:23 There is something to be said about the often overlooked, sometimes multi-generational ripple effects of breaking up a family. It certainly is what the big machine likes to see happen and I'm not sure if it matters to them if its over fentanyl or false flag awareness The results are similar But you know, the flip side of that is that sometimes you can't go back and do things differently. Consequences last and if that's the situation we're in, we best recognize it and move forward. Families do break up all the time and everyone ends up thriving I'm not trying to be overly dramatic about this either. I'm not even a nuclear family or bust kind of person. I think the reason it works so well is because of the way our system and culture are structured

1:10:14 And there might be other ways, even better ways. But those kinds of changes are above our pay grade." The point really for listeners is that there are a thousand different ways to process the rabbit hole and to represent yourself maybe think yourself as the hidden background wise man in the lives of your loved ones, a source of subtle influence You can actually get people to move into the future with you as if everything about the conspiratorial mindset is true without ever really having to get into it like that. As Gordon has said, you don't have to go any deeper with your neighbors than do you think vegetables will get better or worse in quality over the next decade? And also same question what about price

1:11:05 Maybe we should work together on this instead of just being a victim of what we see is going to be a worse product that costs more. And not that my solution, everything is gardening either but a lot of the major problems we have, we can't actually do much about just knowing doesn't seem to affect change and were more likely to get ourselves erased than we are to change anything sorry to say But it goes back to what are the actionable steps in all this? What are the things I can do now that make my life and the world better, that don't hinge on waiting for some great awakening.

1:11:47 Anyway, I hope this was useful if you ever think about such things and John's book really is a great one to have. I think he had a good time. I hope he gets some really great feedback and words of encouragement from you guys. I also have to say that I really appreciate a guest who is sitting there with a pen and paper jotting down notes. I do that every time and it's been years since I think any guests also did that to my knowledge So big thanks to John. I wish him well, the second hour was great too! I hope you sign up for PLUS to hear it along with all the shows of Christmas past and future that you've only heard half of use the links right in your show notes we just updated them to be less annoying and ask you for less information i know most people are signing up on their phones and i want it to be the easiest sign-up imaginable right then we both win

1:12:45 In higher side news, the last episode with Recluse has certainly been a popular one. 4.8 rating from the plus members and the comments seem just as complimentary The man is thorough and well-spoken And those are two key ingredients for a good time in a place like this Let's do the meetup calendar thing and I'll let you get on with your day. December 16th we have the London event at the Camden Beer Hall, December 22nd Sinspiracy 5 at Element Eatery in Cincinnati Ohio

1:13:22 And December 22nd is also the event in Bulgaria. That is a crossover meetup with the no agenda show, I think our recent Bulgarian guest Dan Zucoco is going to try to be there. I'm jealous already but there it is. Obviously this episode is a great pitch for how the meetup calendar can be useful and its there for you, your welcome! I am getting out of here, I've done my part. Your move disenfranchised dissidents initiated outcasts and truth bringing black sheep of the families. Your fucking move

1:13:59 I won't take it, no i refuse If its alright, ill keep my refuge. I've been scheming of bigger things and have to leave my old life behind Gotta transfer To the inner earth I built a box Built a hole gotta need up Going under And now you'll find me In the bunker Bunker Take it under In the bunker Bunker Take it under Me in the bunker Bunker

1:14:47 Yeah, the laughing elite classes while they're scheming masses. Who do you sue? Then I say tell you the basics They print your money got the fed in your head currency now They're smiling and your cage me how this happened how you don't see Plunder Plans are simple. The best protection of all is the special shelter built according to specifications of your local civil defense organization. The basement of any house or building will become a good improvised shelter if you block the windows with sandbags If you don't have sandbags, just what can you do? Bunk up! Take it under

1:16:02 You'll find me in the bunker, bunker, bunk. Take it under the bunker, bunker. Take it under me and the bunker, bunker. Plunder is a pillage and plunder. Plunder is a plunder, pillage and plunder. Plunder.