Joel Salatin | Food Supply Problems, The MAHA Review, & Better Stewardship

00:01 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan There is clearly maybe something there beyond the realm And until we've fully tested every last close-chested view The more we think, the less we really do Where would be without THC? Cause we know they're lying to us Where would we be without THC? The Hireside Chat Show, Greg Carlewood and Connie! Serenity Now Hireside Chatters from the Sunshine State. I'm Greg Carlewood and we have criticized the industrial food industry for many years now

00:59 They mass coat genetically engineered crops and poisons, they factory farm our animals in conditions so horrid it's actually dangerous to attempt to film them. And they make breads and grains so backwards that it has triggered newly named conditions none of us used to have! I'm not optimistic that these systems and processes will go away, but what have we done as informed individuals to strengthen the resiliency of the alternative independent and decentralized economy or secure better quality sources for ourselves and our loved ones? Do you commit to organic produce? Have you formed a relationship with the local rancher raising animals the right way? Do you grow anything yourself? We've all heard that phrase, that ya don't bite the hand that feeds. And while we have a lot of rumbling and grumbling out there about that hand... How critical can we be really if we haven't done anything to lift ourselves out of dependence on broken poisonous systems?!

01:52 Well, here to hit us with the one-two punch of information and inspiration is the lunatic farmer himself Joel Saladin. He's a powerful force in the sustainable regenerative farm freedom movement providing the ideal template with his ever popular Polyphase Farm in Swope Virginia They do events, educational tours and they sell their products directly from their website at polyfacefarm.com He's the author of at least 16 books at this point co-hosts The Beyond Labels podcast with Dr. Sena McCullough and also teaches courses that make small scale farming accessible to anyone at farmlikealunatic.com

02:30 We were lucky enough to talk to Joel back in 2022 and as expected, many of the problems we talked about then are only getting worse now. And our continued dependence on a sick system has only been exploited more and more so let's get into it! The high priest of the pasture, cow trough water drinking food sovereignty sage and Christian libertarian environmentalist capitalist lunatic farmer Joel welcome back Thank you, Greg. Yes that is indeed a legacy introduction yeah I have to hand it to ya that's pretty good. animal products locally and directly from ranches and farms. You feel better doing it, you're appreciated more as a customer and you get a healthier product. It's wins across the board but to kick this off when Trump won the last election and positions were being filled I heard you are going to be tapped for an advisory position it seemed too good to be true and I guess that's right because it didn't come to fruition did it?

03:39 No, it didn't. It didn't I think that he was measuring...I mean there's a million ways to think about what happened behind the screen but you only have so much whatever political equity that you can go through and i think he used most of it up on RFK Jr., and then he used more of it up on FBI guy whatever his name is Cash patel yeah i'm not cash patel that was a liability course tells the gabard was a liability. And so, you know when you start looking at these i mean pete hag seth was definitely a liability and. So yeah yes starting those up but you have to be careful about how many liabilities add up so i don't know if it was just. Assault the movement you know that too get them all excited or if it was genuine not but nothing ever came out well i'm in so sad to see them

04:36 Pull up the ladder right in front of you i mean what i would rather have you involved and all those people because food is like to me so much more important than a lot of the areas they cover but, when it comes to rfk junior and the maha movement was nice to see a contingency of people rallying around health freedom and greater access to sustainable organic whole foods but. It feels like that contingency is getting further and further out of focus i am curious what grade you would give our k jr in the movement in these first two years which might be the only two years it gets away looking. Yeah yeah right about that no there been some really positive things i mean the fact that almost every american now knows that theirs ten thousand artificial food additives. In our food compared to europe's four hundred,

05:29 that the average american now knows that twelve to fifteen billion dollars a year goes to coca cola and pepsi you know under the supplemental nutrition program. Are you kidding me i mean there's nothing nutritious about, you know coca-cola and dr pepper so we've learned some tremendous things he just dumped eleven million pages of covid corruption on the desk of senator ron johnson that happened just in the last little bit And so, you know there's been some things. Some real positives So I'm a friend but i'm not a jenya flexing for it Yeah and so what are the negatives? You know to me the biggest negatives have been that most of the folks in the inner sanctum of the maha movement have been liberals I mean rfk junior was a career democrat, you know, so when that core

06:26 comes out of a liberal mindset there steeped in the idea that solutions come from the government that if it is gonna be a cultural is gonna be an overall solution. You know we gotta have a program and agency some sort of subsidy and incentive you know something I was just in Milwaukee last weekend doing a conference and somebody from the audience during Q&A said, when is the government going to give us subsidy or incentive for farmers doing the right thing as opposed to farmers doing the wrong thing? And I told him. I said we don't need a subsidy to do the right thing all we need is to quit subsidizing stupid. If we quit subsidizing stupid sensibility will have a better play

07:14 I mean, the reason we have a K street is because all our freedoms are for sale. If our freedoms weren't for sale we wouldn't have a case tree and so my single whatever frustrated you ask for a grade to be very as diplomatic as i can be i'll just say it's a C. My frustration is that the question seems to be well we've got all this money we've got government involvement Which bucket do we want to put stuff in? Stuff's been going into the wrong bucket, let's put it in the right bucket. And I'm asking do we need a bucket? Do we even have a bucket and that just doesn't get any traction Greg. It just doesn't get any traction because the assumption...I mean I was on a Maha call and again I'm friends with these folks but

08:08 Two weeks ago you want me to be on a inner inside call about what to do with. EPA administrator lease elden's plan to give forty eight million dollars to clean up agriculture pollution and when i finally got it we got around the mirror you know where are the zoom called multi person zoom call yeah around me as well He really wouldn't cost any money for Trump to rescind his executive order saying that glyphosate is necessary for our civilizational survival. Yes, and great they couldn't even laugh you know I said look it's a joke it's okay yeah you can laugh yeah they're wound so tight and before you know the whole conversation goes into The third preposition in sentence five on paragraph two nobody dares to question

08:55 do we need a bucket is just where do we put the forty eight million dollars and i dare to ask will. Do you need any any bucket let's discard the buckets so that says as nice as i can be that that's my frustration but it's natural because, the people who are on that in that inner circle have come out of a you know, government solves problems mindset. And I come from a very libertarian standpoint that says i can't think of much of anything that the government has ever subsidized that ended up being good. I mean even if it started good it didn't end up there and look at how much we're now fighting over health care and medicare and social security and all these good sounding things and you go couple decades down

09:46 President Johnson's war on poverty, you know. We've spent whatever it is $3 trillion on the war on poverty Well where has that gotten us? You know we haven't we haven't gotten out of poverty even racial stuff and I don't want to get all into that but I am confident that racial stuff is worse now than it was when i was in high school and just you know partisanship and things like that so yeah, I want to get rid of the buckets. Let's not argue over which bucket it goes then let's just agree we're bankrupt we don't have any money our debts 37 trillion dollars So we don't actually have money anyway so let's just get rid of the buckets and let freedom and liberty

10:25 Take a score yeah well said i think a lot of things you said are very insightful in terms of the way people respond to problems good friend of mine used always say. What if the way we respond to the crisis is part of the crisis like you know, The same thinking as they say. The same thinking that got you in this mess will not get you out what got You here will not get you there's I've heard you saying stop subsidizing stupid speech i read that post on your blog he went to washington they gave me three minutes and the interaction you know that was your big line a big applause moment And that's the thing i think a lot of people don't realize we all have this perception of the structure of industrial farming and how necessary it is in our overpopulated everything as and then, the stuff you do inside well no that's great on a micro scale but its never gonna work and of course that perception is something we really tackled.

11:20 last time, but I think people still need to realize when it comes to the free market or the competitive nature of your system versus that system. People probably aren't aware that conventional factory farmers and industrial chemical users, monocrop agriculture. They go to Washington every year to get a bailout and that is what you're talking about stop subsidizing stupid I can compete let me compete put me in coach but you can't stop You can give them the unfair advantage of a constant bail out because they're not doing it the right way

11:58 Well, the problem Greg is that we have decision deficit syndrome in our country. And decision deficit syndrome is caused by failure to deal with the consequences of your decisions. How's the quickest way to make a person make stupid decisions? It's to eliminate the consequences of those decisions and so what happens when you have $12 billion bailouts when the governments... When the world is awash in too many soybeans and you have a 12 billion dollar bailout to the farmers to grow soybeans, you eliminate the consequences of growing soybeans.

12:34 And I'm on a bit of a tear lately, you know. We're washing soybeans the prices plummeted and of course fertilizer costs are through the roof and everything else what are we short of? Well were short of cows! If your watching beef prices our national herd our cow numbers are lower than they've been since 1950 so we desperately need cows well what do cows eat? Cows don't eat soy beans they eat grass pasture, I mean for the most part. And so I actually did an economic analysis on a let's take an imaginary thousand acre soybean farm in Kansas and convert it to perennial pasture and grow cows what would it cost to make that conversion? It was only $300,000 which you know that is a lot of money but right now it costs...I'll get the calculator out here quick

13:31 Right now they say it costs about $350. So if that thousand acre farm is growing soybeans and a cost of three hundred fifty eight dollars an acre to put them in, that's three hundred fifty eight thousand dollars to put in you know, to grow the crop of soybeans And for less than that they could convert the whole thing to cows We need more cows we don't need soybeans But when you get up When you get a government bailout To grow the stupid thing Or the unnecessary thing then the farmers don't have to face the consequences. Of their decisions which are to grow more soybeans this is a problem we've created safety nets

14:11 And you know i don't wanna just be a bull in china shop but no the problem with safety nets is that they make people look for their decision discernment muscles become lethargic, when you have safety net to protect you from every consequence of your decisions well said and. I have heard you say that a lot of US farmers right now are switching from growing corn to soybeans, but corn farmers actually made money last year. Soybean farmers lost $100 an acre but now the corn growers are shifting to soybeans because of the fertilizer issue or just the ease of what they can do and in terms of cattle i've heard you say it's like $1700 for a calf right now But you can remember in your journey doing this there was a time where

14:58 it was fifty bucks fifty dollars for a calf and now it's seventeen hundred dollars i think part of that is the degrading value of our money but also just clearly. Supply and demand me, it's just crazy and i know you have gone around you do a lot of lectures in events where you do talk to these farmers and ranchers directly and you show them the template for sustainable regenerative agriculture that would help them get out of their dependence on the industry and really this System that's turned them into indentured servants, but what are you hearing from the farmers? You just laid out the math but what's holding them back from making a change are they just so afraid there like well this would mean i'm totally at risk for making my own decisions over here though. No matter what goes wrong the government got me i also think i recall you saying lack of demand was at least an element which is that is what the people listening can actually do show that there isn't demands stop buying the other shit put your foot down and say no i only buy organic see better start carrying it

16:00 You know, this kind of stuff. But talk to us about what the actual industry workers are saying to you? Greg, I think-I think you've really uncovered an important part of the onion here and i think it's because the average farmer in America does not realize they're part of the food system that It's like they're there in their segregated world. I want to do this! I want to grow this Because that's what i've been doing and let me look at all agree changes difficult changes intimidating who wants to make change we love to be in a rut. What are graves with the ends knocked out you know,

16:44 But we love our routine, you know. We love our routine and we love doing what we want to do and so we don't want to adjust. And the fact is that the market—the consuming populace—doesn't need what a lot of these farmers are producing. I mean half of the soybeans produced in America are exported, so America doesn't need them. Forty percent of the corn goes to ethanol Yes i want when rfk junior and trump stand up there and say well we got to have this if we don't have life is a rolling starved death goodness only only. Yeah twenty percent of the soybeans in corner even used in human food product and yeah then you have some use for livestock feed for your most of it use for livestock feed or a lot of it but, we can produce half the soy beans reproduce and

17:39 We wouldn't even know it as a nation, especially when we're so short of cows. And so I think what's happened is the government programs, the USDA programs have been able to literally insulate the farmer from being subject to or thinking about the market. What does the market want today? It's been fascinating for me I mean, one of the things that we produce here is grass-finished beef. And it's been really fascinating for me to watch the prices escalate as the beef herd has dropped, dropped, dropped and it's one of the first times that something has escalated this high in the marketplace with no change in purchasing. The purchasing has not changed at all and it's because of keto...I'm going to say it's because of keto

18:31 Carnivore these high protein diets and of course you know rfk junior to his credit is just flip the whole dietary guidelines on its head but. You know beef on the bottom instead of fruit loops that's a very bad that's an ad plus that so that's a great great thing, and so the drive the understanding that nutrition nutrition does not come from cornflakes in fruit loops I think people are starting to get it there's not everybody for sure but a lot of people are actually connecting that dot in their mind and so the realizing goodness you know top quality chemical free. Grass finished ground beef at ten bucks a pound is a better buy than lunchables twelve

19:20 Or Hershey chocolate bars at ten bucks a pound right yeah you go to the or breakfast cereal and so you know these are these are really good kind of shifts in the national consciousness and i think it's why beef. The market is holding firm even in the shortage makes sense i mean its gonna get some insights and i do appreciate that commentary on my aha and RFK juniors wins and losses. Cause the media just really doesn't cover it unless they can twist it to make it sound really bad and scary to the people who are still captured. So it's really kind of sometimes hard to even know what has happened, what's just been a suggestion? What it's just like obviously they're doing a lot of stuff right now. And I don't want to beat up on him too bad because I followed him for many years before he was ever actually

20:09 in government so i know that he knows the right stuff i read his books it's all in there you know the guy who knows and believes this stuff is trying but. if you push too hard you will just get fired. You know it's just that simple no one when people like there's a lot of critics of joe rogan podcast and then someone go on me like what you didn't even criticize him its like yeah do you realize that you could criticize them to much and he just wouldn't air the episode like, you kinda everybody wants everything to be hundred percent pure but you have to play the game a little bit or its only bad people playing the game so i think your right behind the curtain That's why RFK endorsed the executive order for glyphosate.

20:53 was, I mean believe me that really fractured. That really sent shockwaves throughout the Maha movement for sure but think about it this way and we'll give him the benefit of the doubt he's sitting there and to his credit Trump has stuck with him And i think that's been commendable on Trump's part and I'm not a trump acolyte I'm glad he's in there and not Kamala But I think in general RFK has been He's been a difficult partner because he puts the envelope on a lot of things. I'm imagining that Trump goes to RFK and says, look, I need you to endorse this thing and if you don't, I'm going to have to ask you to resign. So I'm role-player here and this is totally conjecture but RFK sits there. I can think about putting myself in his shoes like, look, I've got some huge movement on vaccines. I've got huge movements on COVID

21:53 On how corrupt about you was i've got stuff on additives of got stuff all the dietary guidelines you know we're making progress on all these fronts. Yeah i'll throw trump a bone i agree and that's what it was and i think a lot of decisions actually are made that way i mean, I think about Congressman Thomas Massey, you know he's become pretty famous now. And he has this prime act, he's been working on his prime act for ever since he'd been in Congress that would allow for the first time in 50 years a T-bone steak to be sold in America without asking the government's permission. Right? I was going to ask you about that because it is part of the farm bill and it did pass right? Yes! So here we've got

22:45 They stripped out, fortunately the farm bill is up. I mean the farm bills three years delayed already you know it's supposed to pass at three years ago and it still sitting there so they but they stripped out the indemnification shield for the chemical companies so that was a huge one. I strip that out but they left in the overriding like the California prop 12 thing where you know california said Not only can you not raise a pig, use a farrowing crate in California. But in California we're going to not even allow pork that's been farrowed in a farrowing crate to be sold in California." And so there has been a huge pushback from the industry saying that California therefore is dictating policy for the nation and all this stuff which is a complete red herring argument

23:42 A state is free to say, we're not going to do this here. It's not dictating Illinois what they're trying to do so it's a spurious argument but that is still in the bill. It was stripped out earlier and now has been put back in and that is in. Think about Massey, here he is a guy who put everything on the line for the Prime Act He doesn't like this other thing where it overrides states' rights. Massey's like me, he's a real states writer so it override states' rights but do you not vote on it because its got this provision that it override state rights or do you say man I got my prime act in and put my whole

24:34 Deal on this do i vote against it is a real conundrum and so the problem of the problem is greg that they combine too much stuff in these bills but don't just vote. One thing up or down they put all these writers all this mishmash so you know, 60% of it, so the only way to vote for it is well, it's got 51%, I like 49%. I don't like. So I'm going to vote for and then you're voting for all these terrible things that you don't like but then you don't get the 51% that you do and yeah. And this is they say two things you should never see made in that sausage legislation

25:17 Yeah i mean it is a obviously a huge mass everyone's frustrated. But the prime acted seem to be like a good thing for people who don't know my understanding is that now you can actually buy a cow break that cow down and then sell those stakes and parts at the farmers market or two your neighbor which has been illegal for my whole lifetime yeah since nineteen sixty sixty eight also made out of nineteen sixty eight And you know what's great, Greg? The neat thing about it now is that it doesn't automatically say that you can do that. All it does is if a state wants to allow that freedom the federal will stand down. That's all it says and as Massey calls it, he calls it the subprime act in typical Massey fashion because its only allowing five experimental abattoirs per state to try this

26:16 These micro movements are so frustrating like we I know. So here but but here's the interesting thing. So Pete Kennedy who is legal counsel for Weston a price foundation and works with us salarian others he has been at he's gotten a foyer request from you from food safety inspection service since 1968 how many painted or how many Sickness illness problems have come from uninspected custom processed beef in America since 1968. So we're talking about millions of head of animals over all these communities, for 50 years almost 60 years how many cases of foodborne problems that there been? You know what the answer is zero, zero

27:14 Not 10, not 100, not 1,000. Zero, not a single one." If this doesn't show the validity of small-scale relational neighbor to neighbor marketing I don't know what does and so here we are and yeah, I hope it passes. Tom Massey says that 1,000 neighborhood abattoirs will start up Tomorrow the day this thing passes so it's a. It doesn't sound like much to the average person but but it's a huge thing to think that in the first time, you know most sixty years and american can buy a rib eye steak without a government inspector signing off on it thats a big deal

28:02 It is and people should stop being so afraid of me like i think we've been conditioned were so separated from our food supply that were kinda condition to think it's all poison until its ban. Like cook stew well done or the milk poisoning till it's been past your eyes and boiled in everything needs it's like, Everything's not poisonous and we don't need the government to do all these things vaccinate the meat and all these things to make it. Healthy for you actually the last of that you have them or healthy a lot of things are at the animals are treated right, add the other than i wanted to talk about that in the news is that

28:45 People are paying attention or hearing about the downstream effects of this trade or move stain and they're saying we're gonna see even more bottlenecks in the global supply chain as country start to. Position against each other square off against each other they will make problems with their other choke points that they do control Panama canal might be in this thing, the Suez Canal. There's all these other things. The Strait of Hormuz apparently says people smarter than me is just one introductory step in this direction and the supply chain is long there saying a lot of these problems won't even be seen until next year but talk to us about some of the numbers some of the concerning things you heard now why, we maybe have eight to ten good months to get to know your local rancher to go look around the outskirts of town find out where the markets are. Yeah well i can't soak so chemical fertilizer is made from petroleum

29:44 Your real ammonia all the stuff is petroleum based and so as petroleum flows so flows chemical fertilizer. And the world right now floats on chemical fertilizer now It doesn't have to and this is what the mainstream narrative is not discussing, well what's the alternative to chemical agriculture? Again nobody questions whether there needs to be a chemical agriculture they just say oh no we're not going to have chemicals so were not gonna have agriculture. Well nothing could be further from the truth You know five hundred years ago north america produce more food than it does today and i wasn't done with ten ten chemical fertilizer. And and i mean that was only by people you know we had two to four hundred million beavers at eight more plants then all the humans in north america we had, how did you do hundred million bison feeding two million walls that needed

30:46 120 pounds of meat a day. That's 40 million pounds of meat just to feed the wolves." We had flocks of birds that were so big, they blocked out the sun for a day when they flew over—that was before Tyson. And on the Lewis and Clark expedition when they went out, they said they encountered a bear every single mile of their expedition all the way out to the Pacific from St. Louis back, they encountered a bear every single mile. That was just the bear they saw. It wasn't all the bears that were scattered north and south of the expedition. So bears eat a lot! I haven't even talked about elk and deer and caribou and other things. The point is that all anthropologists and archaeologists now agree that North America produced more actual edible food

31:36 500 years ago than it does today. So the question is not which chemical to use or how to keep the chemicals flowing, the question of the day is how do we return to that abundance? What are the principles? What are the protocols? Then what's the platform that allowed this abundance to happen?" Yes! That sends you then into a whole new ballgame of biomass Composting, carbon economy. Suddenly we don't have $7 billion spent on fighting forest fires. We chip all that dead tree and all that biomass junk. We fire up the chainsaws and we start composting. We feed earthworms. And now we don't have the floods because we're building soil instead of eroding soil

32:20 The whole system starts to function properly instead of making ponds illegal. We build ponds, we inventory water you know there at that time 8% of the landscape in North America that's minimum some people say 10%. So somewhere between eight and ten percent of North America's landscape was water from beaver ponds today it is less than four percent So, we've got to hydrate the landscape with ponds. We're not going to do it with beavers—we're going to do it with excavation equipment." But Louis Bromfield writing in 1950 talked about the answer to flooding on the Mississippi is not great big Army Corps of Engineers

33:00 projects with dams on the Mississippi, it's too far down the chain. You've got too much volume and too much velocity." So the answer to Mississippi flooding is millions of little farm ponds all up through Ohio, Indiana, up into Wyoming to collect floodwaters and hold them on a high scape. Of course that's what permaculture says. Permaculture says the goal for water is is to stop it spread and soak it and so these you know these high ponds and we now have the technology in the ability to do it so. The answers to this are actually elegantly simple

33:44 But what everybody does is get fixated on, oh no! We're not going to have chemicals. What are we going to do? And at our farm, we don't use any chemicals so the whole idea of the Strait of Hormuz problem doesn't even affect us. It's affecting our price of diesel fuel, that's true. But the price of diesel to run chipping to do large-scale composting is pennies compared to the price of fertilizer. Ammonia, I mean urea right now which is nitrogen important for corn has jumped from... Oh there was just an article on it, this was in The Wall Street Journal where is it?

34:33 Here's the chart. I got it right here in front of me It's gone from 20 from September 2025, it's gone from about 520 dollars per ton To right now It's at 800 a ton Anhydrous ammonia has gone from 760 bucks a ton to what twelve hundred bucks a ton and we're talking about you not not not a hundred percent increases but almost. And so right now yeah you mentioned the top of the program that last year corn farmers made money

35:16 This year they're projected corn farmers are projected to lose $150 per acre on Corn last year soybean farmers lost a hundred dollars per acre on corn I mean on soybeans. They will certainly lose that much this year again and Trust me if corn farmers lose 150 bucks an acre on corn Guess who's going to be on bended knee at the White House asking for another? $20 billion bailout. So the fact is that these guys being protected from bad decisions are not really looking at alternatives, what they need to do is convert to perennial prairie pastures and grow cows! That's what we need.

36:01 And another element of this with these prices you're talking about, this is just so crazy. But I heard you describe an example where some farmers they actually have a contracted price in advance on the next supply. So some of these farmers who are lucky enough to have that contracted price they're getting their chemicals and fertilizer insane actually you know what i'm not gonna grow this year at all i'm gonna resell this because i will make more margin just reselling the raw material that i will even using it. And so if you logic that out you have two farmers,

36:38 One has the product that he needs to grow the food we don't even really want, but he's paid twice as much and the other farmer opted out entirely. So you have half the food for twice the price probably four times the price because the supply is chopped in half It's really wild. I mean, that's the economics of it. That's the market at work but in this situation it is so messed up and I did want to get into a little more about just breaking that perception that nature itself is scarce. No! The supply chain is scarce. The green paper you use as the middleman between you and all the other things you need... THAT IS SCARCE perhaps based on what you do for a living

37:18 But nature wants to provide. It needs to be shepherded, it needs to be worked with but I said in another recent interview we think so much about what we can hand our kids and hand down to our kids and our grandkids Why didn't you hand them down 50 mature fruit trees on a fucking acre of land? Why didn't you hand them down, you know, uh-uh space where they could go instead of the grocery store to go get the engineered abundance that your family has cultivated. That's what we should hand down! Instead we've sold like I know so many friends are like oh my uncle used to have 80 acres out there and then sold it for a subdivision like every... We don't have any more land but

38:01 I guess talk to us about what you see in nature that really helps make the case that it wants to be worked with its not necessarily easy to start when you start getting the snowball rolling i want to work with. Yeah well there's a lot more scientific information now, In agronomy on the quorum biological core is called a biological corn and that is so often we think of nature as being competitive each other microbes are competitive each other trees are competitive each other but actually when the biology is fully functional.

38:37 There actually become synergistic and one microbe says, hey I'm really good at getting zinc. You're really good at getting molybdenum how about you get your molybdenum i'll get the zinc and we'll work together? And this is actually some of the cutting edge stuff going on in agronomy right now in the non chemical approach where were actually finding these synergistic quorums Within you know within the soil biology so so you know things actually do want to work but you know tillage and chemicals and herbicides kill the earthworms kill the microbes. And suddenly you don't have any biology to work anymore and so the key is to stimulate life just like the biology of the pollinators all that stuff

39:27 And guess what it starts to start work beautifully and if i may say one more thing about scale. We got this notion in our country right now that the order to grow volume and scale You have to consolidate concentrate and centralize you know if you got a ten thousand bird chicken house you need twenty thousand and if you got it when you need thirty and its all about consolidation concentration centralization. And scale in that little moment in that space nature doesn't do that is opposite the way nature works nature doesn't do that nature

40:07 scales by duplication if nature wants you know more oak lumber it doesn't make a great big tree it makes acorns and plants little trees, if nature wants more milk. It doesn't make a great big cow it makes baby calves that grow into cows if they want more tomatoes it does like a great big tomato plant it makes a bunch of little tomato plants nature scales with duplication and that's where your idea of goodness you know edible landscaping in our yard. Apple tree doesn't take any more room than an ornamental tree, and so the same care that cares for an ornamental tree will work for apple tree as well and so urban gardening

40:59 Urban planting and suburban. I mean, we dump fertilizer on three acres of yard and spend a day a week mowing the stupid thing with... You could feed 30 or 40 people off of that three acre place. So yeah, listen right now America has 45 million acres of lawn and 46 million acres feeding and housing recreational horses. Now, I'm not against horses but listen if we're in a food shortage let's grow gardens and not horses And the point is 45 million plus...46 million is 71 million acres 71 million acres is enough to feed the entire country without a single farm

41:58 I haven't even gotten on to football fields and golf courses yet. We got to leave the golf courses alone for me, it's the only way i really get out there with boys and have a good time yeah so great so the point is that well you know what they could do is start gardening on the golf course yes absolutely anyway we can go down that rabbit hole but my point is that land We have plenty of land, and plenty of resources. Plenty of water. What we have to do is better stewardship." And if we did better stewardship then we would be able to feed ourselves without the chemicals and we'd all be in good shape

46:03 Eventually he did have to address it with me and he said yeah another commitment so you couldn't give me that extra thirty minutes but what can i do when the middle of the thing we just gotta wrap up. So i tried to split evenly between free and plus but we got we got, We just had a three hour show with chris earlier in the month so hopefully it evens out somewhere we just have to play at where i live sometimes. But there's nobody that i'd rather get updates from when it comes to the state of the food system and food policy in this country, i have so much respect for him going out there and giving these presentations directly too

46:42 What would be his competition and trying to show them how to be successful in getting them to mimic his template? It's pretty impressive. Many people would just say screw it, their loss is my gain but he truly wants to see a lot of this fixed and he still trying even though He's gonna be 70 next year I also say chalk joel up to another example that shows the benefits of working the land and the sun and connecting with the earth in a diet of eggs raw milk animal meat from livestock that lives a good life. He's seventy any seems pretty sharp and pretty robust for his age, of course do whatever works for you i don't claim to tell anybody what they should do it their diet but was so much confusing data out there

47:28 My simple stoner mind just looks for the examples in the world that I can look at and go from there. And doing what he's doing doesn't seem like the worst plan. I was also pretty methodical in booking Christian Westbrook when I did right before Joel because I knew Joel wasn't going to go too hard into an engineered scarcity conspiracy like Christian would, and I don't really like fear-based arguments But that is the material that provides the motivation to act. I mentioned 45 fuel storehouses and refinery fires and explosions in just 45 days, this was covered by Dr Farrell in his latest news and views three of those only three are in the US and he says yeah if you're gonna do some sort of global espionage You're going to want to hit a couple of your own just to cover your tracks

48:25 But this seems like a coordinated attack to try and put more dents in the global fuel supply on top of the straight closure. And speaking of Christian Westbrook, and what he was talking about at that time... During COVID we did also see disruptions to food supply AND at the same time stories of explosions & fires in various factories and corporate facilities in the food sector! Honestly I think they do what they can without getting caught And what they're finding is that humanity is better at coming together and making adjustments than they realize. I think they constantly underestimate us, and so... ...I expect the next wave to be much more aggressive It's a good strategy to choke supply in spring and create the domino effect that doesn't show up until 6 or 10 months later disrupting a bunch of harvests

49:19 Because memories are short and people tend to have a hard time looking back and connecting a current price or product shortage to something that happened almost a year ago. But even if the assessment is wrong, and the shortages aren't as bad as advertised, and we don't get energy and food rationing in monitoring this time... If you're honest about the direction the world is going—the trend— then you just have to use this information to help yourself Ask yourself if you're more likely to see a growing number of geopolitical actions that fuel abundance or scarcity. Do you expect the food quality you get from the system to trend towards nutrient-dense and cheap, or nutrient deficient and expensive? This is all Gordon White stuff that we

50:08 used to talk about like probably halfway through our 12 interviews or 14 interviews we have in the can but you don't even have to think and apocalyptic terms either i genuinely just want you to look up wherever you are where there is a farm or ranch within an hour that's independent from the grocery store system and does things organically and actually creates the products they sell, and then keep them in business it's not much You don't have to change anything else except you redirect the flow of your own personal capital out of the corporate industrial food system and into strengthening a decentralized an independent node on a

50:51 Mission to return to artisanship and community. Get your eggs, dairy, produce and meat from a local farm! Please just make that one change over the next year." We need to take some responsibility for the money that flows through us and at least direct it in some ways that make us proud and feel connected to our community. If you want beef there's BeefMaps.com if you want raw milk there's GetRawMilk.com You just put in a zip code and you start trying some places out. Even if you don't want raw milk, those places almost always have other products like produce and local eggs because it's easy to cause disruption at a Tyson distribution center or attack the five major food processors

51:41 This is sort of like guerrilla tactics where these local farms are more resilient anyway, but you give your body a healthy food supply while also making it harder to do these big sweeping coordinated attacks on the supply chain. Because your supply chain is a small farm 30 minutes outside of town where everything is created on site, not shipped from New Zealand like ButcherBox. I used to really like ButcherBox it was a convenient step in a better direction but the majority of their beef comes from Australia and New Zealand we have beef right here

52:19 if we have fuel and distribution problems i don't wanna be funding australia's ranchers i want to find ours is just that simple i wish them well okay thanks for coming my ted talk now the turnaround on this was super quick faster than most because i had to say the editor a don't cut much out already barely getting up out of this one So even though we recorded this on Tuesday and it's getting out to you on Friday of the same week, it's still outdated because Thomas Massey has lost his primary race to a guy nobody seemed to support but Trump backed. To get rid of Massey I think because he was so vocal about the Epstein files and Israel too Listen to this The primary race in Kentucky this week was THE most expensive primary in US election history In KENTUCKY

53:09 Yeah, upwards of 83 million total for a Republican primary in a single state. 35 of that was just on getting Thomas Massey out of there Why? Because he is actually legit He never let go of those Epstein files and he was outspoken about the technocrats in the food supply And of course major critic of Israel He had served seven terms! He probably felt like he could be a bit bold You know, I thought that meant you were basically a lock forever. Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul are the senators of Kentucky and Mitch has been reelected every time for 41 years Ron Paul's been there for 15 or Rand Paul always mess that up but he's been there for 15 i like him too but how does kentucky have Thomas Massey Randpaul and Mitch McConnel

54:05 Something funny about that. Maybe elections aren't as authentic as they are advertised But clearly on the rare occasion good people do make it in, they can be pushed out if they get a target on their back pretty easily Like I think Joel's C-letter grade for RFK Jr is fair If he does too much They'll just kick him out But listen to this about the Kentucky primary. These are some of the details. So official campaign tracking identified over 9 million indirect ad buys from prominent pro-Israeli group APEC,

54:43 United Democracy Project, they spent nearly 5 million on targeted advertisement spots. These ads heavily criticized Massey for voting alongside progressive Democrats to reject pro-Israel resolutions The Republican Jewish Coalition Victory Fund dispersed over 4 million on anti-Massey campaigns This was the largest amount the RJC had ever spent on a single house primary race Broader federal election reports and political watchdogs put the total influx closer to 15.5 million when accounting for coordinated dark money and mega donors now the MAGA Kentucky pack a separate super PAC backed by top Trump advisors spent 7.5 million to boost The Challenger

55:31 Ed Galrain, this pact was heavily funded by prominent pro-Israel billionaires. According to Massey's own campaign evaluations, pro-Israel interests and their affiliated megadonors accounted for roughly 95% of all outside money deployed to unseat him Now you don't hear me get all upset about politics very often and I'm not all upset about this. I don't live in Kentucky so it has a limited impact anyway, but his voice on the national stage and how funny he was and how bold he was that was very important You know? I think we should pour one out for a guy like Tom Yes! I know his wife died kind of oddly And then he married another woman 18 months later That's weird

56:23 But I really have no other criticism of the guy. And the official story is that she had a lifelong autoimmune condition, several of them actually and they were high school sweethearts so imagine falling deeply in love with someone having that history and connection and they have constant health problems you love them but i'm sure it is very trying and limiting and um...I don't want to say a relief When they go but maybe there isn't a good word for it relief sounds too harsh but i can see a story there that. Makes total sense and is authentic so i don't wanna cause too much skepticism about that but how often do we see a pattern of someone very very close to the inner circle of a person dies and then they're on the national stage, you gotta consider because as a pattern we see two often but anyway

57:21 In the case of Thomas Massey, I guess he's no longer relevant. Who knows what he'll do? Maybe run for governor but... He was so critical of Israel that they circled the wagons and got him out there And just in his concession speech she had a solid jab and i think that i should actually play it So im gonna play couple minutes of this concession speech It's 20 minutes obviously we're not going that hard But just listen to a couple these lines I would have come out sooner, but i had to call my opponent and concede. And it took a while to find Ed Gowrine in Tel Aviv Welcome to the most expensive congressional primary ever In the 250 year history of this country It's not just the most expensive This thing went on longer than Vietnam! It started 9 months ago They didn't even have a candidate and they decided they wanted take me out

58:17 Contrary to all the BS you've heard, we never had a single ethics complaint filed against me or my staff in 14 years. But here's one thing I saw on Fox they were saying oh my goodness You know We're ready for war there's about this we're about to restart this war we were supposed to restart this war today but we can't restart this war today The war can't start today They said we got away today And then it occurred to me, where was the Secretary of War yesterday? He was here. Listen! Wait wait no look on a bright side. No more wars! Alright we know we don't want a war and we know why young people are in you middle-aged people are against the next war

59:16 Because we'd be the ones fighting it. They're trying to bring back the draft, screw that! We're not going to fight some other country's wars are we? No! What else do we stand for? Not...we don't want to send our money overseas Okay I'll go for that. I've got a bill to do that and also have a bill to end the Ed in the Department of Education Rand Paul says he wants to pass a law

59:53 one day to read 10 pages of every bill. I asked Rand, what are you going to do about my bill that's one sentence long to end the Department of Education? That'd be like five minutes to read that bill! By the way, did you know how many pages the Epstein-Files Transparency Act was? Two pages We're tired of meddling overseas. We can't afford it, our empire will collapse if we keep sending our money to other countries I never picked a fight with the country that's tried to take me out here but i've never voted for foreign aid to any country! We gotta take care of America first! America first

1:00:41 America first. By the way, there was... You remember that organization that Klaus Schwab started called the World Economic Forum? He said they said you should eat bugs do you want to eat bugs? They said you'll own nothing and be happy about it! Do you want to do that well guess what happened guess what happened to Klaus's CEO he was in The Epstein Files he had to resign We took out the CEO of the World Economic Forum with a two-page bill. For years I've been standing up for the Second Amendment, First Amendment Fourth Amendment Fifth Amendment and Tenth Amendment...I just realized that the Seventh Amendment is under attack

1:01:30 is because I serve on the Judiciary Committee. The Seventh Amendment is your right to a jury trial, they've taken it away for vaccines if you get hurt you can't sue for vaccines they're trying to take it away for pesticides they're trying to take it away for these data centers no we've been fighting that back so that's part of an amendment that frankly I didn't think i was going to have to fight for but I've been fighting for it in DC and we need to keep fighting for the 7th amendment too. They want, these corporations want get out of court free cards We're not gonna give them one What else is part of our coalition? Maha! Is anybody here for Maha?! Does anybody wanna eat poison?? Do you want the government telling you what to eat? You want the government telling you to put a needle in your arm

1:02:31 I don't either. That's why i've been fighting all of that stuff We need food freedom, we need medical freedom We need all those freedoms We need basic decency That is what the Epstein-Files Transparency Act was about By the way today is the 6 month anniversary of the Epstein-Files Transparency Act We have taken out 2 dozen CEOs an ambassador a prince A prime minister A minister of culture

1:03:09 And that was just six months. I got seven months left in Congress When did bipartisanship become a dirty word in this country? It never should be By the way, I'm not even sure that I'm bipartisan Bi means you like both I might be trans-partisan because I can't identify with either some days That's the great thing about the polls being closed. They can't run an ad where I claim to be trans Transpartisan, thank you very much. I don't know which cloakroom to go in Bipartisanship we need to bring this country together We it is not there's too much of the uniparty in Washington DC What we need is a unity giving his contention

1:04:10 So that sucks he was one of the good ones but this is what will always happen to the good ones we win by divesting from the system personally and investing in the local community and that's all there is. There are no politicians at save us, but the farm bill did pass the house It still has the Prime Act in it, and it's pending in the Senate. So keep an eye on this now that Massey is out they'll probably get that out of there too why not? Everything is broken and corrupt! To use a Gordon phrase The difference between permaculture and prepping Is really just timeline scale or perceived remaining time

1:04:54 My kids eat fruit and leaves from things in our yard, and this is a positive thing regardless of what's going on in the world out there. That's the attitude I try to take. The world doesn't need to collapse for this to be beneficial and good." And the guys I follow in the permaculture food forest space all are saying the same thing. I try to be careful not overload THC with that sort of stuff just because it's a personal interest but they say You should grow things that thrive on neglect. I like that phrase, you can get some things to grow in certain places if you want to shield them from the elements and work really hard or you can just grow things that thrive on neglect where you are

1:05:41 We had a frost this winter that killed the four mango trees we planted. Okay, lesson learned! I'm probably not gonna be the guy out covering trees when it's 30 degrees and trying to force something to work that doesn't want to work So no more mango trees? I can live with that Maybe i look for hardier varietals or maybe i just say instead of mangos its loquats and bananas I just love the abundance stuff. The evidence is there, you can see how the Amazon was cultivated with terra prada biochar, the engine was started and it just exploded and the soil replenishes itself without as much maintenance and we could start our engines here or at least you could on your own land if you're lucky enough to be able to secure some. I also say get chickens

1:06:30 They are so easy and there are more eggs than you'll know what to do with. My daughter decided she doesn't like scrambled eggs anymore, fine! Crack three raw eggs in a smoothie add raw milk blend up some berries and she's good to go She doesn't even know she had eggs She is the tallest in her class It's interesting I personally have a bad ice cream habit at the end of the day I want to smoke a joint and eat some ice cream like a child But corporate ice cream is loaded with seed oils and other bullshit. So my daughter and I, we make our own eight raw egg yolks two cups of raw milk a cup of raw cream, a half cup of raw honey, a little vanilla extract in a cup of good cocoa powder And that's it no sugar added everything's organic most of it raw It's fucking super charged! And I honestly think it's as good tasting as top tier ice cream

1:07:26 But get chickens if you can, they are so easy you'll wonder why I didn't do it earlier. My friends and family always leave with eggs and we have plenty more! Five birds lay like four eggs a day... So at the end of the week your drowning little changes go big way is what i'm saying Alright well in higher side news I think im gonna come up a little short this month technically If you include the stream I did with Miguel & Chris that was two hours but I don't like thinking of that as content to be honest. Sure it was recorded, but that was for my mental health and needing to talk to two guys who at least understand the weight of the loss more than most other people in my life so i would have done that not recorded. I wouldn't have cared. I didn't want to cry on the internet anyway but...I started working on a Gordon Clips show and it was just too hard for me to do right now and my wife basically said hey just

1:08:25 put this out of your head and take a little break your listeners will understand. And i'm gonna take her advice on that i hope you do, and look it's not like i'm taking a month off we had a three hour show with chris noles to kick off may then christian westbrook full show war mode also good two hour remembering gordon show and work happened offer joel selling is actually really strong lineup but I would just like to stop being online for the rest of the month, it's only like 8 days and then try to come back recharged and go full steam ahead in June. I already have some things on the calendar that are surprising even to me but we know about that curse of talking about things before they happen so...I won't

1:09:19 Let's see what plus people thought of the war mode guys. I really was not sure it's a bit outside of normal THC usually we are doing something a bit more academic with an author, doing a deep dive on something that is their expertise and this of course is just some guy shooting the shit but I don't know what I was worried about 4.7 very very solid I'm glad we have more in common than I might've thought amongst the audience of course I hope i can stay in touch with them. I know they have a lot of their own shit going on but it is the kind of hang that im very thirsty for having more in my life, recorded or not! In fact their latest episode Bill goes really hard on Dr Richard Amblin and his book The Great Prostate Hoax about prostate cancer and the PSA test

1:10:14 Another test that doesn't mean anything but because they can get a scary number on that test, it lets doctors talk men into cutting out their prostates and most would never have a problem. But now they can't get hard or their dick leaks urine so they need to depends I have heard some stories, but i don't know anyone else who has read that book so I acquire this knowledge and if I don't do an interview it's just like bottled up. And I definitely don't have casual friends that talk about this stuff So tuning into warm mode hearing him break down that book It was great! I actually was going back-and-forth with Richard in email right when COVID started to get really bad and I think I might've dropped the ball

1:11:02 Because I was like, well this can kind of sit on the back burner. If i'm going to do a medical show right now this covid thing looks like it might be a big story but you know just hearing him talk about it I got all charged up because its wild stuff and typically I just don't have people bringing these things up to me in regular life or even responding when I try to do it myself I'm seeing more of my male friends on SSRIs and GLP-1s and ketamine treatments for depression. So really any medical conspiracy stuff is just very, very touchy we leave it alone There should be no touchy subjects between good male friends but i ended up here anyway somehow

1:11:50 But go check out more War Mode, tell them you like Tiernamon THC. Make them feel like they should come back regularly because they should! Alright meetup calendar May 24th we have a Meet Up at the Alibi Room in Vancouver British Columbia Then June 6 this one's new Palm Bay Florida I looked it up it's two and half hours from me... I don't know if I'm gonna make to this one on short notice but I will read the description Small Equipment Rx would like to host a Life Hack Swap Meet. The idea is to share food, beverages and practical skills in the areas of farming, equipment repair, survival hunting etc., in casual BYOB meet-and-greet style at a grungy lawnmower repair shop

1:12:37 This is a casual meet with no set agenda. I'll provide a grill, cooler ice and tables. I will also have multiple small engines on display to demonstrate common repairs and would love to answer any specific questions you might have." I love that! That is way better than just a brewery And obviously fits very well with the themes of this show in the direction that my life is moving but...I don't know June 6 It's pretty tight. Two and a half hours is also a long time for a guy with two young kids anyway, it's not about me Maybe if you can make it to Palm Bay Florida on June 6th that's a good one to go to Now June 7th St Paul Minnesota Blackstack Brewing June 13th Riverside California at the Brickwood June 21st Chicago Illinois The Map Room And that is on the summer solstice I love when people point that out

1:13:34 june twenty seventh arizona gilbert arizona desert monks brewing and july six northcott point auckland new zealand, end also july twentieth oaks pennsylvania at the arnold's family fun center and august eleventh is that. Tech conference in Albuquerque. So I see that the calendar has at least doubled in the events that are on there and I think probably because a lot of people feel a sense of loss and feel slightly more motivated to form that community, that the Meetup calendar is there for you to use to form

1:14:17 All right well i hope you found joel inspiring and informative sign up for plus if you want to double your fun, you might actually get a kick out of him politely trying the signal that he's done and me casually pretending i'm unaware and trying to push through. Look i love joel i don't take it personally its just funny we also talked about a bacteria that pulls nitrogen out of the air hundred pounds per acre but requires at least four percent organic matter in the soil to actually thrive otherwise it goes dormant

1:14:53 And it's just one of those mechanisms in nature. You do a little bit, you get the organic material in the soil and thunk! The lever gets switched on so that it actually starts to generate more abundance. That is how things work but we have to kind of kick over the first few dominoes We have to get the snowball formed and start rolling it down the hill Nature wants to help but we got to help ourselves a little bit first Anyway, take care of you and yours. I've done my part Your move soil depletors frankenfood feeders and anti-abundance agents a big ag your fucking You feel betrayed by the ones you're told to trust Well, you know, you don't get much help from the ones that beat you up like a dog that don't obey We're just left to lick the wood They say that it will be okay

1:15:54 And the cycle continues, we don't seem to care For the ones who come after repair Bread and circuses really is an awful trade But what are you gonna do? We see the crash is coming why won't someone Apathetic to the next collision Haven't even had time to heal So the cycle continues, we don't make the space The ones who come after much love lost in this place

1:16:40 They don't change their ways at the top So we gotta change ours Make all the new stop and tell the story of I just wanna be comfortable, I guess Easier to believe a lie I go continue Cause it's all about And the ones that come after Can try to get them We always have the numbers We never have the drive Sometimes have the mindset right

1:17:32 attempted to thrive, too patient to hunt hard to truly go so again and the cycle continues we don't even discuss for the ones who come after cause no one did it for Prince and Black can learn from our mistakes