Joe Atwill | Inexplicable Facts, Masonic Manipulations & the Converso Cabal

00:04 The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan. There clearly may be something there beyond the realm of man, until we've thoroughly tested every last closed chested view and find the more you think you know unless you really do Where would we be without THC? We know they're lying to us just don't know what degree

00:42 Great car, wood and company Here we go, Hireside Chatters. From the Sunshine State I'm Greg Carlwood and it seems like an age of both anger and apathy is upon us where those who engage with the mind-controlling media allow themselves to be steered from outrage to outrage letting the loose drain from their increasingly hollow husks while others have seen the same tricks played so many times it's hard to care anymore

01:23 Mainstream credibility has hit a brick wall and the Pandora's box of alternatives can become so overwhelming and confusing as to cause many people to just disengage. We watch those around us fall to fentanyl, financial ruin or finely tuned psyops. And it's getting tough for many to maintain bonds that used to be effortless and this year has seen more than its fair share of situations that shouldn't be happening from a second major military conflict two suspicious fires in Maui, a missing jet and the rising tide of inflation so So today we're talking to one of the greats who can help us make sense of the nonsensical narratives and find the threads of truth in the choppy waters of the vast conspiracy. I'm talking about independent scholar and researcher, Joe Atwill!

02:12 You might remember that he was here once before talking about his most well-known work, Caesar's Messiah. The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus which makes the case that the imperial Roman family the Flavians constructed the New Testament and created Christianity as a way to deflate Jewish sects fighting against the Roman Empire He is also the author of Shakespeare's Secret Messiah which adds a few more layers to the argument And you can hear him commenting on current events with Tim Kelly on the Powers and Principalities episodes of the Our Interesting Times podcast. And it's a pleasure to have him back, The Caesars Messiah Scribe, PsyOps Sense Maker and Bright Mind for Troubled Times Joe Atwell welcome back! Thank you so much for having me Greg good to be here

02:58 Yeah, man. It's a real pleasure I am a big fan of the Caesars Messiah perspective and i'm not a religious person so I don't really find it as controversial as others seem to But I heard a couple of recent interviews As well as the last few powers and principalities episodes And I'm already a little nervous about what we're gonna get into this time The way you frame things up makes a lot of sense but it certainly thorny material It needs to be talked about openly, though. We're now involved in two major military conflicts and who knows how much money and resources will continue to be dedicated to the Ukrainian and Israeli causes? So we do need to unpack the wider context that you've been preaching about if we were to start with Hamas's attack on this music festival in Israel which you referred to as

03:47 A bad plot in a poorly thought out Chuck Norris movie. Elaborate on how you view those events beyond just that description? Well, the Hamas attack was a false flag I believe Hamas was created you know, when you say it's created by Israel what does that expression actually mean? You're actually talking about the oligarchs that run Israel and present us with sort of the media understanding of the country which is just tremendously different than the people who live inside it. But putting that aside, the attack itself just had a number of inexplicable aspects to it and this is typically how you can begin to understand something as a false flag

04:32 People will look at the government's storyline for 9-1-1, and then you hit building 7. And you see a steel frame building collapse symmetrically at freeze fall speed fires given as the explanation. None of these things have ever occurred before in the history of steel frame buildings so how could all three of these aspects occur at one time? Obviously it was controlled demolition and then the entire narrative collapses with that fact the inexplicable provides the framework. And I know this is kind of a strange analytic position, but it just is the world that we live in because the media is basically controlled and its controlled to create as propaganda so we have to find analytic ways to come to a better understanding of what's real than just by viewing from what they're telling us

05:26 So in the Gaza invasion, you know you have several things which are completely inexplicable. First I think there was seven breaches of the Gaza-Israeli border by different assault groups This is simply an impossibility. The Israeli border control technology is famous for its thoroughness, right? They could never have overlooked one let alone seven excursions across the border so this is inexplicable how could they have not seen it why was the military stood down again It's just inexplicable given

06:05 what is known about the Israeli military and how quickly they can respond to not be available in seven situations for over an hour, in some cases for half a day. Again it's just completely inexplicable however it would be explained if this was a false flag. And then the other inexplicable aspect is simply Hamas itself, which we know was originally a creation of Israel. This has been well documented that they provided the capital for it and basically created it as a kind of counterweight to the Arab-Islamic Brotherhood—which this was the explanation they gave which is sort of inexplicable—but at some point the claim is that they lost control of Hamas. Well how did that happen?

06:56 given that Israeli has control over all of Hamas's finances, all of the resources coming into Gaza – the water and airspace. Exactly how did they lose control? And then moreover you have Hamas' foreign policy which is to constantly hurl rockets across the border and occasionally these picayune sort-of assaults on Israeli positions None of which makes any difference whatsoever to anything militarily or politically, but it does keep up the justification by the Israeli government that they are being attacked. That they're the ones who were attacked It's not that they are pressing The Palestinian people rather they are simply responding to these violent and irrational attacks now This is inexplicable because Hamas has a foreign policy that could easily be successful

07:51 which is simply the approach that Gandhi took. And I have mentioned this to the Palestinians that i'm able to communicate with and they are well aware of it, and incidentally the Palestinian people are very skeptical of Hamas they don't feel the elections are legitimate that continue to place them in political power in Gaza time after time but be that as it may... The fact is if Hamas wanted to politically defeat Israel they could simply adopt an education process throughout the world, the same kind of approach that Gandhi took with the British Empire in India. And in that they would explain to the population the facts concerning how Palestine was stolen. I mean these facts are documentable, they are incontroversial and the public is not aware of them so

08:49 rather than adopt a foreign policy that would succeed in bringing world opinion against Israel and the way that the Palestinians are oppressed, which gives Israel the exact rationale it needs to genocide the Palestinian people. So now you have the event over three weeks ago what has been the result of it? It was completely predictable The Israelis now have slaughtered, there are different estimates but I think reasonable estimates were over 10 000. They've driven the Palestinians out of the northern fraction of the region they occupied. They're now compressed down against the border with Egypt so this was the result was to lose even more territory more population

09:38 All of this is inexplicable because there was really nothing that was ever coherent in terms of Hamas' attack that could have benefited the Palestinian people. So getting back to my point about how do we know what's real anymore, right? Well, we know what's reasonable. We know it in violation of the rules of physics. We know what is irrational and illogical Here, the narrative that the media gives us is completely inexplicable. I mean why in the world would Hamas behave this way? Why would it be Israelis stand down? Why would Hamas attack a group of stoned out rave dancers you know and this as i said my attempt to be witty i said you know this was like a very bad Chuck Norris movie It's just ridiculous! The people who are playing the role of the villains are so ham-handed

10:33 that it wouldn't even be in a B movie. It's just too ludicrous, you know how evil what they did is the heading of babies and taking hostages killing and machine gunning of rave dancers on LSD of whom many of them were amazingly not Israeli they were Europeans who had come there for this event It's inexplicable as a legitimate historical event. However, as the false flag Greg it just makes perfect sense every single aspect makes sense and so this is how I when i talk about how he presented I just go look story we got is frankly crazy and there's a really simple rational way to understand it which is that it's a false flag

11:18 Hamas is controlled, the Israelis are in the process of depopulating their region of Palestinians. And this is just another aspect of it and when I talk about it, I always say you know you have to look at this in context. You have to look at this and I'm sure you've seen the maps of the shrinking area of Judea that Palestinians have access to This is the right context. This is just another one of these hundreds of events that have reduced the Palestinian population in the region and also the land that they are in control over. That's a great summary, you touched on several of the points I wanted to make sure we mentioned In a previous interview, I've heard you say that whole books have been written about Gaza as an experiment in social control and the surveillance that they're under

12:09 and we hear about it being oppressive. I've heard the term open-air prison used plenty of times, but i haven't heard a ton of details explaining why that term is appropriate as you said the security there is supposed to be top in class for any border And I hear little threads like that it's an official policy or law, that Gaza cannot be in control of its own water. Israel controls the Spicket and that's been the case for quite a while. Little things like that do stack up to make the case that it is open air prison but those details aren't exactly widely talked about? For those who are still a bit ignorant as just how rough life in Gaza has been set-up

12:54 What more would you say? Well, it's hard to go beyond your description of it because that is in fact what it is. It's not just a concentration camp which indeed is but it is a laboratory for social control there have been books there was one I forget the name of it but written by Lowenstein Jewish guy from Australia and he said look this is where the Israeli test out their social control and political control technology, they develop it here and then they sell it to oligarchic governments throughout the world. And this isn't really something that can be negated I mean the evidence is completely overwhelming this what they do so Gaza is a concentration camp on one hand but on the other hand it is actually an experimental region of human control

13:48 It's just about as racist and evil a construction as humanity can create. I mean, beyond this, I can't even imagine you'd be into HG Wells or something, it would just be so horrific! So this is just the most evil thing in the world It has to be, therefore a camouflage. You know they can't ever tell the truth about it you have to see the truth analytically this is how we can approach it and there's good evidence for it being a zone of technology experimentation I don't think that could be contested

14:26 But then the aspects that you were talking about of control where the water comes from Israel, the airspace doesn't belong to the Palestinians. That's completely controlled by Israel. The immigration in and out is controlled. They had a situation where they had hundreds of children who wanted to go to other areas to receive medical treatment that they couldn't get in Gaza and they were denied so it's a prison of the worst possible form They really aren't maintaining it for any other reason than experimentation, in my opinion. They could easily just as they're doing now I think now perhaps are about ready to pull the plug and

15:07 get rid of Gaza altogether as a Palestinian zone. I mean, the current military activity by Israel has cut it into two sections and the Israelis are on the beach you know they easily went through the entire width of Gaza now they're on the beach so they separated into two I think is unlikely they'll give the zone back that they are in control of the part which has the largest city And so the Palestinians will be compressed down into the southern part, and then they'll just be gradually over the next couple of years immigrated into other countries. Some will go to Egypt whichever amount Egypt will accept and then the rest of them will just be sent throughout the world once that's done Then they will finish the job by getting rid of the West Bank territories

15:57 which again, it's probably not as severe as the Gaza reason but it is just an open-air prison. It's completely bifurcated every aspect of human life is controlled and what will have occurred when those two events are completed is that the vision of Zionist will be realized And this won't be where it ends People think well now this will be end of it there'll be peace I would point back to Rothschild's letter in the beginning of the 20th century when he was asked about emigrating Palestinians into Syria and Lebanon. And he said, no, it is better to send them further away because those areas are part of the land of Israel

16:43 So what we now see is Syria and Lebanon, I think will be on the chopping block after Gaza is absorbed. And this process is a very long-standing one. It's not oddly enough one that originates with Jews. Again this is one of these bizarre facts which has never been mentioned in public They just can't talk about it. But in fact, the political process of Zionism—the Zionism that brought about the Balfour Declaration and then the State of Israel—it doesn't come from rabbis. It comes from British Freemasonry. It begins in 1840 when Palmerston who is a Grand Master Freemason and Prime Minister of Britain says now was the time for the Jews to return to the Holy Land

17:34 Now, this was an amazing and incomprehensible—remember I was mentioning the inexplicable as being breadcrumbs that lead us to like an understanding of the world. So Palmerston says now is the time…now this was, to use an expression, news to the Jews! The Jews at this point were actually well on their way to full integration into Europe. They were having a good time There are a number of Jewish intellectuals who talked about how inexplicable Palmerston's statement was, but nevertheless it begins and the British Freemasons have just an absolute iron will that goes forward through time. It never relents.

18:19 surveys of the region in which they learn about the populations and how eventually they would be able to control them. They move British military into the region for the first time, the Rothschild family buys the Suez Canal and you never stop the process of Zionism from Paul Brisson there is activity every single day going forward The Balfour Declaration has been noted, really should be called the Cecil Declaration. Balfour was a Cecil, it's a family and their Grand Master Freemasons is who they are and they're involved in British politics, oligarchs... One of them in like 1860 made the statement in the British Parliament that again he was echoing Palmerston, he says now as a time for the Jews to return to the Holy Land

19:15 There was contestation, people stood up and said you know this makes no sense. And there's already a nation of people there why would you want this? And Cecil simply became hysterical and started fighting physically had to be restrained he was just they said it yet with just possessed with a bloodlust You know to beat up the people who were arguing against him I would juxtapose that moment with the current situation in Gaza terms of the blood lust This group then organized missionaries to what's called Reform Judaism, because in Reformed Judaism you started to have theology which was multicultural and actually inclusive of other religions. There was a very famous guy named Abraham Geiger and he was writing about we really should turn Judaism into a light for the world it should be something that all humanity experiences—very anti-Zionist

20:13 and he was becoming very popular, so they hired individuals to go to the different congregations to break down the interest in that kind of multicultural Judaism and return it to the narrow Zionist vision. Now why did Palmerston say now is the time? Well, it's because at that exact moment the Masons had taken over the political control of Europe. There was a really good article written by Webster Tarpley—he was one of the LaRouche scholars who I think are really good scholars—Anton Chaykin and Jeffrey Steinberg and Tarpley, and he pointed out that exactly in that moment

21:00 the Freemasons had gained what he called Palmerston Zoo, which was control of all of the political bureaucracies throughout Europe. And so that's why now is the time to go back because they had taken control of Europe and they knew they have the political power to be able to reestablish the state of Israel even though it was not wanted by the everyday Jew and certainly made no sense in terms of the geopolitical reality at the moment And what this does is exposes what I think is the natural way of understanding the Masons, which is that they are converzos. Now that's a term meaning someone whose family background was Jewish but has converted in order to live in the European Christian world but retained a kind of connection back to the past—to Judaism

21:54 And the Masons have, I mean you notice their obsession with Hiram Abiff and the building of the temple. So that idea that they could recreate the first century except this time reversing the reality of it... This i think was something that the Masons in their high levels take oaths to fulfill this. And so this is why there was just so much determination This organization has taken these oaths, particularly in the high levels to bring about this exact situation. Now it gets far grimmer if you continue the analysis because this group also then produces the Nazi party

22:39 If you read an article I wrote called the Freemason Origin of the Nazi Party, which incidentally if people are interested in it there's no paywall. You can just Google my name and the Freemason Invention of Nazi Party to read the article but anyway you can see that this group then created the Nazi party and at the end of the article i asked what I think is very natural question I say well did they create this war World War II for the purpose of making it really difficult for Jews to be in Europe and creating the emigration Israel that they wanted to bring about. And I think they also wanted to punish

23:19 the Holy Roman Empire with the destruction of the Germans. And so I point out that Hitler is a false flag character, he's not... He doesn't come from the German people his background is completely artificial inexplicable and so the analytic process that I try to use understand it would indicate that he was created and the Nazi Party was created for the very purpose of fomenting anti-semitism destroying the German people and bringing about the conditions we now have where you have a debilitated Europe, and a powerful Israel that unfortunately none of which is real because the political apparatus of all this is just stuff that's given to people like the storyline of 9-1-1. The political apparatus is fake and this our real challenge as we need to go into our political class

24:15 and expose their real origins, their real purpose, their real backgrounds so that we can understand our world. That is a really good summary this piece you referenced is the most recent piece for postflaviana.org and you also go into how theosophy was a major influence, maybe another invention of the British Freemasonry. But you say national socialism, the use of the swastika, the concept of the Aryan race, the one-armed salute, the man who oversaw financing to the Nazi party as well as the man who trained Hitler for

24:53 for all theosophists. I mean, that is quite a bit of influence and of course Israel the creation of it you have to talk about World War II. I remember in school hearing about what so many different countries were doing. I never really heard about what the Palestinians were doing during World War Two and I remember asking well if the Germans did all this bad stuff Why isn't Israel in Germany? Why didn't they take the land from the people who did the bad thing and give it to the people who, The bad thing was done too. You went to a seemingly arbitrary place that had nothing to do with the conflict itself. I always found that somewhat strange as a youth and you mentioned that question that you end the piece with, you do say, i have it here

25:43 Did Freemasonry maneuver the people of Europe like pieces on a chessboard to reverse the war of the first century where the Romans were victorious and the Jews were expelled from Israel? This obviously gets kind of dense and complex for people who don't have serious historical knowledge or who have seen through the narratives of conventional History and I guess that word conversos goes a long way in trying to explain some of this. You've also said Freemasonry as far as you can tell is made up of rituals crafted, as a version of the most fundamental Hebrew religion so maybe we have to go back even more in nesting dolls like who created what? It seems like there's some group that even created freemasonry

26:31 to not look Jewish, I guess. It's very complex." It's so difficult to really understand...I mean, I've said that we know more about our future than we do about our past. They've been so successful at creating plausible histories which are designed to confuse us. They're designed so that we don't think clearly. That's The sad fact is that the more we study the history that they've given us, the less able we are to be able to decode any of it. I think I was somewhat more sensitive than a typical kind of researcher in that I had done so much research into the first century because of Caesar's Messiah and I knew the writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I certainly knew the struggle between Rome and Judaism very well

27:23 and I understood Freemasonry as an aspect of that struggle. And, I think then when I connected with Anton Chaykin who was a Jewish LaRouche scholar and had communication with him he's the one who really pointed out the fact that the people who developed Nazism in some ways are the same people who developed the current version of Zionism. Anton is Jewish and i think just because of that fact, it was hard emotionally for him to go any further with analysis. In our conversations he was troubled that I would accuse Jews of being responsible for the Nazi party and my response was well who we know is a Jew? I mean when you look at Helen Blavatsky or you look at the British Royal Family what are you actually looking at? And I have said that it wouldn't surprise me

28:23 If even people who think themselves are Jewish, right? And have had the positive and negative aspects of that ethnicity would not be seen as Jews by the oligarchs. I really believe that their bloodlines and the way they look at themselves in the world are just unknown but I do think they're extremely important to them. And so what I've said is that, to really understand our world we need to get DNA testing on the oligarchs—that's the first thing—we need to see what is the relationship between the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds? Between the Warburgs and the Bush family? Between Obama and Bill Clinton? Obviously they're inbreeding to some extent but how do they determine who gets to come into their genetic club

29:13 I don't have any better understanding of that than anyone else. And I do feel that there's a lot of very careless anti-Semitism, which sometimes people will glom onto because of my work and…my point is is that I do think that Judaism and Jewish background are certainly part of the oligarchic power circle—this seems absolutely obvious! However It is like accusing Italians of being evil because the Sicilians organized the mafia. I do podcasts on Israel and I say, look—I hate to say it but—but I wouldn't be surprised if the most mind-controlled and deluded group are the everyday Jews that they have been given a narrative that…and they are being maneuvered

30:07 It looks like it is a success because Israel is powerful, the Palestinians are weak. Everything is going great! Well perhaps but until democracy can shine in other words until we can actually determine what are the motivations and blood relationships of the oligarch class Everyone, all of us are in a world of confusion and doubt that has no real purchase in terms of what our history is. We don't know about our history we just know we have a future and we need to develop better thinking skills. And so I didn't mean long-winded but my position is we just need to develop better thinking skills and develop evidence

30:56 for our premises. We've got to start with understanding who are the political class, what are their relationships to one another? And then we have to look inside Freemasonry and get inside the oaths that are being given and I mean these are the steps we have to take to start having an understanding of our world you know so thats why if i can contribute anything with my work I just hope im increasing skepticism the desire to think better and clearly. Not that I'm an example, mind you but...I know that this is an issue so I am encouraging the young generation to do it better than I did certainly. Yeah! I mean I'm with you on that mission It seems like they make certain topics extremely taboo You are not allowed to talk about them And thats because they probably lead to the answers we seek So if you can just quell

31:50 any broaching of the topic, well that's obviously gonna help your cause. And you say that this thing about bringing the Jews back to the Holy Land goes back to 1840. This is another thing I struggle with because we know in the conspiracy world that a lot of these agendas have very long arcs. They'll take a long time to incrementally get something done but it's just weird to me super strong motivation to move certain people of certain ethnicity to certain places and it extends beyond a human lifetime. You would think someone who said that in 1840 would want to see that accomplished in their lifetime or you would think that they don't really care about the common man, who maybe shares the label of Jew

32:44 Like, maybe it's just the nature of being American and being a European mutt. I'm part Swedish, Polish, British—this is what I'm told. I don't really particularly have a strong interest in what happens to Sweden or Poland so it just seems odd and especially outside of my lifetime especially 250 years from now So that's the weird thing, because you think if they control all the money and have all the power they should be pretty content I would just assume rather than wanting to move people around. I think that they have some kind of strange esoteric beliefs some unadvertised religion that motivates a lot of this stuff If they are Jews, they're not the same Jews as I know They're different and i think

33:36 to the extent they're Jewish, it's just a way that they're able to maintain secrecy. In other words, the religion that they would see as Judaism would have it at its premise sort of need-to-know and levels of understanding and just have an elite that has all the information and that group would be the one that would direct history, basically moving people around. To your point of why don't they do it quickly? The key to their success is they are not detected and that requires incrementalism so they just do stuff very slowly with broad and slow motion social structures

34:19 so that the public doesn't know that it's occurring. I mean, I would say that the counterculture was developed as part of a system to destroy Christian ethnicity right? That was the real purpose of The Grateful Dead and you know Woodstock and these things Ultimately, they were trying to produce sex drugs and rock and roll as an alternative to sort of the ethnic Christian delayed gratification lifestyle. And the reason is that the ethnicities were dangerous. They had the power to resist

34:56 whereas isolated individuals do not. And so the idea was to move us to a culture where you'd have pornographic males and single moms, if they were mothers at all and that clump of individuals could be easily controlled as they are in fact look at the fentanyl brigades in our inner cities be, certainly you know pornographic males and single moms would be just basically the top level of culture in that world. So this is why that was brought about and if people are curious about this I would just tell them to read chapter 23 of The Authoritarian Personality which was kind of a pseudoscience that was developed by the Frankfurt School

35:46 and then the American Jewish Committee, which outlined the plan for the counterculture. And in chapter 23 they talk about how they will develop propaganda using Eros. Then of course think about Eros and civilization, Marcuse's book. He was part of the Frankfurt School And, you know his book was kind of a basic textbook for the counterculture which advocated free love polyamorism and was very skeptical of hygiene. So it was just perfect for the hippies but this is done not to terminate the population at that point

36:26 but to slowly move them away from the structures that held the ethnicities together, the primary being delayed gratification. That was given as a social negative—you know, the idea of you were told to do your own thing and that all these aspects of pleasure would be available if you would just give up your superstitions which were Christianity and the nuclear family. You know, Christianity and the nuclear family are certainly able to be criticized, but you can also see them as bulwarks of an ethnicity that might be problematic for a group that's trying to have world domination. And so this was why they were attacked and this is why I think the counterculture was developed. This is why when you look into the counter culture or you look at the different researchers who found all of these government

37:20 agencies and back of rock-and-roll singers, and the LSD onset and all this stuff. This is why that's there is because the oligarchs were using elements of the government to bring about a change in culture, to produce The Beatles and then The Rolling Stones, and then just incrementally work your way into you know the punk movement where you start to really debase the people who are adherents of the music And I would say that the fentanyl brigade, that's what I call these lost souls are the product. This is kind of what they envisioned when they started this whole process and you look at the inexplicable aspects for example The Great Society programs where they started to give government checks to women particularly in the inner city who only those who didn't have husbands right? If you didn't have a male in the household you were eligible

38:16 the check that came in the mail, well this was just a direct assault on the black family. Which now has you've ended up with in many regions there are no families I mean literally it's been a complete wipeout You have what's called the baby daddy you know? It's not a family it's just This was the person who donated the sperm and may have some relationship to the child, it may not. But there's no family to talk of." I mean obviously that isn't all of African America but that is in fact... The demographics show this is a very large fraction and its one thats increasing And no one is doing anything to stop it In fact they celebrate it The rap music which is kind of the anthem of this process Is defended culturally

39:05 You know, the language was now debasing. They use the N-word and talk about debased sexual situations in public music... I mean you couldn't have gotten away with this stuff in 1950! You'd been arrested but incrementally we've got there and future is always in motion it never static and I think you can just look at the future very easily at this point And then of course you throw in some vaccines which damage the neurology and you can see where we are, where the epsilon class is being created. You know that actually wrote about Brave New World I mean this is a group that has no agency for humanity they're just occupying a body and time on their way to the grave so you know we are facing great crisis humanity's really facing trouble right now

39:55 because our cultures are being attacked so systematically and except for the independent media rising up. And that's why, just to digress you know you're to be praised for your efforts I mean it isn't even a question of how successful you are Greg it's just that the effort that you're putting in and the work you're doing is righteous And it's a value just in and of itself, you know? So I'm not a believer in God but I'm going to say God bless you because it's really valuable. Well, I appreciate that. I really just ask the questions and its people like you and other guests that really bring the information but I wanted to also try to fold in Ukraine here a bit too because up until Russia came in, the headlines were all about how corrupt Ukraine is and was

40:45 Then I saw a lot of coverage of the Asaf battalion and claims that these were literal Nazis that we were supporting. And then, I read claims that Ukraine is occupying this space that was the old Khazarian empire and if you Google that, you'll be told it's just an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory but then if you go over to the images tab and you just look at maps... Yes! They were both above the Black Sea and slightly to the east of it That territory does seem to overlap. Now I've even heard the claim that the overarching goal is to move the Jewish state from Israel to Ukraine, which really seems crazy. These are just some of the alternatives I'm seeing as I'm trying to find the truth amongst them because the official narratives obviously are very heavily flawed and just can be labeled as propaganda so

41:39 With these kinds of things, how do we really find the truth? What is going on with Ukraine? Does it involve the old Khazarian Empire in your opinion? Help us out. I mean, I don't know the idea that they're going to move Israel…there's no way to know because again there's this impenetrable barrier between us and the oligarchs I'm not even sure we can guess what their psychology is like, frankly. They could be kind of a different type of humanity if you know what i mean so you can only guess and I think in terms of the Ukraine the most important fact is simply that it's an obvious genocidal process. In other words, the Ukrainian people are being depopulated and that's the purpose of the war there is no military way

42:28 Ukrainians are able to push the Russian back. This is just a ludicrous idea and you know, you can see the breadcrumbs of it in The Inexplicable are showing up over and over again if you look at Bakhmud, The Battle of Bakhmud It was obvious from maybe two months before the fall that there was absolutely no way that Ukraine could hold on to it That the Russian kind of siege technology was too good Everyone was saying, well why doesn't Zelensky pull back and try to create a plausible defensive line? He was saying no we're going to hold this. It's Fortress Bakhmud. We're going to defeat the Russians when day by day you could see that the Russians were advancing very systematically. You'd ended up with couple hundred thousand Ukrainians slaughtered. Well makes no sense militarily it's like the Gaza foreign policy

43:23 But it makes perfect sense if what you're trying to do is depopulate the Ukrainian race. I mean, Zelensky—his background of course is Jewish oligarchs, Soros, Molodinsky—they are the ones that financed him. He claimed to be there to bring peace with Russia The Ukrainian people have voted three times to try to basically create an effective Minsk accord wherein the Donetsk regions would be autonomous and they would stop this slaughter of ethnic Russians in the region, thereby end the conflict with Russia. The Ukrainian people have voted for it three times. Zelensky was the last one. He said he was going to bring peace

44:08 immediately, you know went back on his word mysteriously. When Russia broke through all of their defensive lines at the very beginning of the war and were on their way to Kiev he attempted or was claimed to have attempted to create another kind of Minsk accord where everyone would walk away there would be some territorial concessions but then you stopped the fighting According to the narrative, Boris Johnson showed up and says you know we're gonna give you all the fancy NATO weapons. We can defeat Russia and therefore the war went on completely inexplicable it just makes no sense it wasn't what the Ukrainian people wanted what they voted for what Zelensky said he was going to do And now you end up with a two-year long war Just recently they announced that were going to mobilize women between I think its 18 and 50

44:59 for frontline battle. So this makes no sense militarily, it's just depopulation! That's all it is? They've already got half the country to emigrate to other places God knows what kind of lies they will be able to create with that status but they knew they had to get out The ones who are left are just being fed into the mill of Russian siege technology, which will just kill them all. So this unfortunately Greg is a very sad and personal experience for me my grandfather was a victim of the Somme at the Somme in World War One that was a battle which over two days 60 000 Europeans were slaughtered completely inexplicable

45:52 200 yards, but 60 000 people were killed. My grandfather was mustard gassed and he lived long enough for me to know him died in in the early 50s of lung cancer. He had been mustard gas and he'd had lung disease for his entire life as a result of that, so when I see the situation in Ukraine, I'm just looking at another moment where Europeans are walking into automatic weapon fire with no coherent rationale as the basis They're just doing this for some narrative that is just so fanciful that a child couldn't believe it, you know. But there it is! We just do it time and time again and we do it because as a race—as people—we have this terrible flaw in which we believe the history that were being told. I mean, it's that simple. That flaw

46:50 It keeps us from saying, no this is not a coherent political system. This isn't the result of some kind of democracy that I can make any sense of you are lying to me? The political class is a secret society that has arranged against the people not to support the people and therefore we're not going to join the army We're going to resist every way we can and we're gonna first by trying find better thinking skills, find ways to analyze more specifically the events that we're being told are the rationale for walking into automatic weapons fire. Because we really need have a good understanding of that and we just don't and when you see things like Hamas invading Israel now That's a really smart thing to do isn't it? You have to say well

47:48 There's two possibilities. One is they're just absolute morons, but the other is that we're looking at a kind of controlled opposition that we're looking at a kind of theater that really what you're getting is a pretext for genocide there's a pretext for genocide in Ukraine there is a pretext for genocide in Gaza The people who are the victims need to organize themselves to think better, to be more skeptical of the political class. The political class in Ukraine is a controlled group that has been set up to depopulate the civilians and the same thing is true in Gaza, in my opinion. Hamas is absolutely artificial. The foreign policy that they're executing is just as stupid and creating the pretext for genocide in the same way it's going on in Ukraine

48:44 So, I'm glad you brought up the Ukraine because you can see that. This is the old story. This is the Ukraine-Gaza, The Battle of the Somme, the Nazi Party... These things are all comprehensible from the idea that you're dealing with a secret society, that is really intent on genocide. But they make no sense as history as this is just Europeans miscalculating or putting in political leaders that are incompetent. You know World War I was not incompetence it's not. It's a plan

49:25 Precisely executed. And so is what's going on in Gaza and so is what's going on in Ukraine, right? Well said people often use that phrase don't attribute to malice. What can be explained by incompetence and I hate that phrase because it is an excuse. I think a lot of times the malice hides behind a front of incompetence like why are our schools such trash? Why is the economy so bad? Why is our food so bad? You just chalk up your hands there. Well, we have incompetent leaders know they're getting what they want. They have a barrier between the real decision makers and us and those people are largely incompetent puppets and that presents a certain perception but no they're getting exactly what they want

50:15 Obviously, there are a lot of parallels between the Ukraine situation and Gaza. To me it's easier to see why a genocide is happening in Gaza because we know these three religions have been fighting forever so it just seems like par for the course. It's slightly less easy to understand why the Ukrainian people I can't ignore that Khazarian dynasty aspect. It seems too coincidental, the world is a big place. I've had many people trying to hone in on the elite say well to say they're Jewish is too broad of a brush and so they'll often say Khazarian. They'll say well there's a Khazarian sect hiding within Judaism these are the Khazarian banking families that started the usury thing and the rest is history

51:04 That land is just too coincidental to me and then we did have the lindsay say that he was gonna make. That woman marina abramovic the head of like the schools are education which is really insane because she was popularized during pizza gate stuff she's popular for being in a cultist who does these weird rituals i mean you could say artist i guess but these weird Aren't installations that are just blood splattered on the wall, like red paint made to look like blood? It's Satanism. I mean it just out and out Satanism in what a Brahma Judge is doing is the cake of light which is a ritual that Alistair Crowley developed and Is a specific satanic ritual. It's not in Crowleys depiction of it Which is what the Brahman which uses its simply described as a satanic ritual That's what it is so

51:58 This goes to their understanding of Satan. People think that, well why would anyone worship Satan? And what they're really doing is mocking the term as it's used in the Gospels again you'd have to read Caesar's Messiah to completely understand this but their position is there are the group that Rome is oppressing and so when Rome is mocking their political movement as Satan, then they now come back and say okay fine we are Satan. But the problem is that they now will claim that they can use this same moral principles that the Caesars used against their populations and bear in mind Rome was simply a prison of nations right? It wasn't particularly in this era so you're basically using it as your moral standard

52:53 the principle of the most evil humans who've ever lived. And this would be something that if the general population was aware, you see then they wouldn't permit because it is not in our interest. It's not in the interest of the everyday Jew and Israel to have this continue, it certainly isn't in the interests of the Palestinian people that Hamas continued to lob stupid impotent scud missiles that land in the desert and give Israel a pretext for genocide. And it certainly isn't in the interests of Ukrainian

53:31 45-year old mother to be given an automatic weapon and sent to the front. All of these things are destructive to the individual, democracy has been perverted And so to bring a better form of democracy, it starts with skepticism trying to think through what we've been told what we have been made to believe. Then from there just refusing to accept the inexplicable as things which are rationale basically for genocide. I mean the people that iIve been trying to contact and have influence with are the Jews in Israel

54:14 And I've been trying to say, look guys, Hamas is not real. It cannot be used your bloody minds for a second you'll understand that Hamas is being controlled by your political class and you don't know who your political classes are what they are the problem as you're looking at the same intellectual impotence that the Palestinians are looking at when they look at Hamas But you need to go into your political class with your reason and with exploration, and find out who is running that organization. Because there is clearly control of Hamas from a group that has the destruction of the Palestinian people. And when you see it to the extent

55:03 that this group will even sacrifice Jews. You know, it's like if you read my piece on the Freemason invention of the Nazi party and I point out that well this group wants to have anti-Semitism which had been on the decline engendered and so one of the things that The Theosophical Society brings out are the protocols of the elders of Zion It's a complete fraud, but they bring it out because at that moment they want anti-Semitism to get higher because they're going to want to move the Jews—as many of them as they can—to Israel which was seen as like a kind of desolate desert place. The last place in the world that a cozy European Jew wants to head to right? So they were having real trouble with this and well suddenly you know the protocols come out from the Theosophical Society

55:52 Well, this just shows you that these big picture psychopaths—they're perfectly happy sacrificing a few Jews and millions of Gentiles. They don't care! They're looking at some kind of geopolitical vision that comes for thousands of years in all this hocus-pocus ludicrous Freemason ritual business and now that's a template for modern political activity It's just not acceptable to any clear-minded human. And so I've been trying to get to the secular Israelis and saying, guys this isn't real you've been manipulated the stories of the babies being beheaded and the LSD stoned rave dancers. Hamas does not need to attack a bunch of hippies on LSD listening to rave music

56:51 I mean, just the fact that that was possible. Shows it's completely artificial. It couldn't be real how often are there stoned-out LSD rave dancers? Gyrating in Israel the idea that this would be where Hamas would head and find, you know A bunch of defenseless hippies sitting out there This is obviously Artificial it's not real. It is a theatrical event And that's why I use the expression You know a bad Chuck Norris movie Well, it is a bad Chuck Norris movie and so you need to find out why. Why they gave us that stupid, stupid Chuck Norris movie to manipulate you so that you would be okay with now the IDF going in and bombing children? Right great points And I agree with you when you frame it as a bad Chuck Norris movie I remember Chuck Norris movies or Van Damme movies these cheesy action movies and I could see

57:49 Arabs parachuting in with guns blazing. Like that's the kind of opposition that comes up in those movies, just a simple simplistic one dimensional they just kill because they love killing and now Van Damme and Chuck Norris they got to go to work. The first image that I saw the day of the event was of a victim that they'd found this one woman who is a German female who attended it And she just happened to have pictures on Instagram. She was the sexiest woman I'd ever seen in my life, and she was in all these skimpy outfits! And I thought to myself, yeah Chuck Norris casting is right but this is not real guys...I mean use your head you know? So I'm hopeful that the group that I really am trying to do podcasts down there and see if I can get people

58:41 I really want people who are on the other side to debate, you know? To have interaction on that level. But so far no takers! But i just think that the secular Israelis are fed up they can see a lot of them can see that there is some kind of religious zealotry that they're not really part of All of them to some extent are manipulated. You know, most of them believe in the Holocaust they believe in the victimization of Jews that idea that's being used...they believe in that! but they also are beginning to see the other side of the curtain. They're going, wait a second! This is starting to not make sense. For example there are like Israeli whistleblowers one of them is a really clear-minded Jewish woman who's talking about she was one of the people who was responsible for border security with Gaza and she said no it's not real our control over the border was absolute

59:40 It wasn't a good border. We had visual control over 100% of it, there were computer-guided assistance to everything." She said if a cat—and she wasn't exaggerating! She said this is literally true—if a cat came across we'd be aware of it And now we're supposed to believe that bulldozers and hang gliders can come across and attack the sexy German LSD dancer. Right? The bulldozer was one of the first images I saw, and I was like, that's strange just because this thing is going on doesn't mean like this would be ripped down in this fashion where this bulldozer come from it is so stupid. It just drives me crazy. Greg, I guess the pretext for genocide is very weak

1:00:27 can't stand any scrutiny. Our media, of course is under complete control you know obviously they would be all over the implausibility of it maybe exposing Hamas but it's up to the independent media and we are slowly having an effect and we just have to continue to not just educate, but try to engender the Socratic process—the process by which people are starting to think and be skeptical and not believe what they're told. The idea of believing something that CNN or Fox News Biden or Trump believing something that this class would provide you as fact, you're already lost analytically. You're never going to recover. You've got to start out with the premise they're probably lying well said and in terms of this turning into a bigger conflict, a world war three type situation. A lot of people had those concerns with Ukraine Russia while it seems even easier to see

1:01:26 with Israel-Gaza, because everything is framed as Israel just defending itself though they're clearly on the offense. We now have us bases in syria getting attacked headlines about iran backed groups attacking the u.s intentionally saying i ran back dust meaning we're gonna have to get back and i ran, and then it just seems like its very much spilling over into something bigger what are you watching out for. And that regard like what do you consider some of the tipping points where we now are in World War III, I mean we probably maybe already are but where American citizens should start to worry about like we're deep in this now. Well, We should be worried already the escalation will be visible when Iran is brought and they're the military that can be used as a pretext for you know using our fleets for example and this would be a complete and absolute bloodbath

1:02:29 The war in Ukraine has exposed the US war technology as not being basically in the ascendancy any longer. I mean, the Russian shoot down air defenses seem to be perfectly able to deal with our cruise missiles and whatnot. And frankly Iran is sharing all of its technology with Russia In fact, many of the drones that Russia is using are Iranian. So if Iran is brought in and you actually start seeing Iranian technology used in some kind of defense of Hamas or Syria more likely then I would say go to Costco and stock up because they're probably going to have a World War type situation which will depopulate well,

1:03:16 Like always, the depopulation will begin with the Europeans—people of European background. But it'll reach far greater. They'll reduce half the world's population if they're going to go into a World War situation. They won't need nuclear weapons. They'll simply have the pretext for energy and food. I mean you can see it in Europe where they destroying pipelines, they're ending farmers' ability to grow crops. It'd be very easy to go into a worldwide starvation and freezing situation if you have a world war. So in my mind the ratcheting up of this into that kind of world war situation will be visible if you start seeing US-Iranian overt battles because

1:03:59 The Iranians then will bring the Russians in, and I'm sure they won't go to nuclear weapons. They want to keep the planet intact but they don't need to depopulate. They have all the tools just with...I mean for heaven's sakes, they can use these thermobaric kind of bombs to wipe out villages and whatnot if they wanted to be populated that way but i think in general Greg what you're going to be looking at with the world war is just an end of the food chains and energy supplies that's how they're gonna reduce population And then of course, they'll put in a mandatory vaccine in the middle of that which is sterilizing and affects your neurology. The vaccine is another thing that's very troubling to me. I recommend people not to...I recommend them think clearly before they go forward with any of that stuff."

1:04:49 Man, so before we really wrap it up here I hoped we could end with some advice. You say you're optimistic... But these things we're talking about, this potential for European genocide getting hit from all sides and people don't even realize it. It sounds quite dire and I know that the alternative media sure it's great that it's growing. I'm a part of it with two young kids. I worry about my ability to do this job for 30 years as I planned to do when I left the workforce and started it And we'll see what happens there. Obviously they're coming for people like me, uh there's examples of it already plenty of them but not so much for a conspiracy media host but just regular people how would you advise them? I mean how can we turn some of this information into actionable intelligence for the average American We have military escalation economic decline What are your thoughts on how to best weather these storms

1:05:53 Well, I mean first of all the chaos is part of the way they manipulate us. Notice that these theatrical productions occur one after another just as soon as you get done with lockdown Ukrainian war pops up and that fizzles out and now Gaza so it's just one after another so yeah this sense of powerlessness because of this constant hammering us with these media events right? The big picture is less dire, or not to say we are not in a very serious situation. But the percentage of people who are capable of real thinking has never been higher and this is demonstrated by the fact that so many people have just dropped out of listening to mainstream media 50%. I mean it's just this is an extraordinary achievement! So there is a basis for a political movement

1:06:55 So the thing to do, I just say there's just two things. One is your body and the other is a coffee table. Get your body right you know don't eat any of the toxicity homeschooling in California home schooling is exploding up 50% year over years it's incredible! It's because they can see that there's toxicity inside the public school system this is where transgender vaccine mandates I mean this Parents are now rebelling from that. 50% year to year, it's incredible! So one is just your body be healthy you know try to stop eating toxic foods and then of course thinking skills You know you want to think better Try to develop if you can a friend someone who is interested in having better thinking and having discussions in which you kind of go over your logic and try to explain to one another

1:07:57 why you believe in certain things and why certain things are real. You can do this in an artificial environment, then prepare yourself for the coffee table." I go to coffee tables at farmers markets, and I just say 9-1-1 is inside job convince me otherwise. Of course, I'm well known as someone that's hard to argue with so it's not as effective as it was like two years ago But I have spawned a lot of people who listened and saw that my arguments weren't weaker than the people screaming at me, you know. And it's that public presentation so I always say you know it just get good enough so you can set up a coffee table and try to get people to engage in a public way. Then its localism. You know the federal government is assess pool It's not penetrable

1:08:56 But the sheriffs, mayors school boards. These are the areas where we can gain some political power they were really effective and necessary during the lockdowns if you had a good sheriff right? And we had sheriff's in California that just told Newsom to piss off they said no we're not it's we think it's unconstitutional literally there was like an rebellion is incredible so get a sheriff that's what we want to focus your energies get a coffee table Get a sheriff, get a mayor. Get one member on the local board of supervisors who will say you know I'm little worried about all children in Palestine being blown up can we have some talk about is the Israeli response appropriate? And the movement needs to coalesce We need to really start recognizing ourselves You know I tell you the truth Greg I just see it happening I actually do believe that the process as slow as it is

1:09:58 I mean, we're still standing. They've been battering at us for 2,000 years and here we are! We're going to go on and what we need are thousands more like you. And that's your task is just keep developing your influence on humanity just every day—just realize you have this special responsibility to do that. Well, I try Man, you as well. You do amazing work and I would love to see some of this stuff debated! I know that Caesar's Messiah really sharpened and honed in your debate ability because there are so many biblical scholars out there and that's complex stuff to debate. I would like to see debates on this other stuff because clearly you know your material well

1:10:50 Well, one thing about me is I'm chatty. I'm always happy to debate anybody on anything you know but and also i don't mean debate it seems so confrontational and people are afraid that I'll ridicule them or you know just have an unpleasant experience. I'm Socratic! I love to be shown to be wrong, please I try to look for opportunities to exchange information with people, you know. That's what i'm wanting to do and if you have an opposition to my works on Shakespeare or the Bible or my position on the Holocaust...for heaven sakes! I'm a public person joeatwell at gmail dot com. I'll come on any show we can talk

1:11:34 And show me that I'm wrong. I'm perfectly happy to be shown to be wrong here the man you are unique in that regard and i think we gave listeners a lot to sit with if you have any other major resources besides yourself that they should check out let them know but primarily give them your links and places where they can stay plugged into what you're doing caesarsmessiah.com and as I said my email is just my name joeatwell at gmail dot com i get a lot of emails, I can't respond to everything immediately but I always try to get everyone eventually and I really like criticism corrections I mean for heaven's sakes if you think about the areas where I'm talking about it

1:12:17 It's a long, it's a lot of literature that I try to present. And obviously there are a lot of mistakes so I'm hoping that errors and miscalculations will be shown to me because the thing is Gregg, that's how we get better. That's how it gets better as we show one another errors in facts and reasoning. And I really want to encourage people to do that to me. And I will always stand corrected. I want the process It's not my personality. I'm too old, I mean, I'm mid-70s brother believe me all that's important to me is the process because this is what will give my future and my children you know a chance The process will live on beyond us You know working with facts and reasoning looking for the truth This will live on And it'll protect my children in yours So I dedicate myself to the process

1:13:10 you know, some sort of ludicrous media image which means nothing to me whatsoever. It's the only thing that matters is the process—the Socratic process facts and reasoning." Cheers to that! Terrence McKenna I think said something to the degree of if a thing is true it can take the pressure so like I think I got the best argument so let's have a discussion about it because I can answer any questions you may have and Believe me, you know I'm some guy isolated in a house with a computer. I can make a lot of mistakes! I'm perfectly willing to be shown to be wrong but i also work very hard at what I do and I try to bring good information and the stuff I bring out has really aged well And so what I'm hoping is just to promote the process You know that we work harder facts and reasonings than we stop believing In the history We know more about the future than we do about the past

1:14:05 Because in the future we can use our facts and reasonings to understand it, to create it. The past is just a lump of propaganda. We should also make mention of the website... Is it postflaviana? Yeah! Postflaviana dot com I mean there's a lot of articles there if they're curious about reading about I do articles on the Beatles, on Catcher in the Rye and Ken Kesey. There's a lot of current stuff that I do there. There is no paywall. Just go there! There are discussion groups about different ideas and as I said before, I just respond to emails most directly.

1:14:45 I can point you to my work and other people. You know, there's hundreds of other people out there. I send people to you! So it's a big collection of individuals at this point in information. It is. And as much as I love what you do, I wish you did it more often and wrote a lot more. Last time we talked, you did discuss a book that you were working on that would name the names and help people better understand the political class using Brave New World. Yeah! And I've been working on actually hoping to bring out three books but they are controversial But I definitely am going to get them all out and I'm hopeful they'll have really good effect. Yes, well, I'm gonna keep an eye out because I would love more material

1:15:31 All right, yeah. I'll send you copies as soon as i'm ready to go with them It's a little complicated publishing this stuff But i'll keep your prize and i'll get your copy at least one of them very quickly. Oh, I'd appreciate that Well it has been a pleasure You have a way of talking about uncomfortable things in a clear and almost matter-of-fact way And I appreciate your willingness to do it take care and keep fighting the good fight Thank you greg thanks for the opportunity talk to you soon Ha, listen to me talking like I haven't said that Terrence McKenna quote a thousand times already. But okay! Well that was something the great Joe Atwill. I hope as an audience we have cultivated enough discernment and separated ourselves enough from any situation to be able to consider new possibilities? This one got pretty heavy so i'm sorry to the people who just show up here for the Bigfoot and alien stuff

1:16:27 I like to think we can all handle it and have diverse interests. Every time though, with these major situations, I think that... And then there's at least some blowback from listeners who liked all the shows in the archive but ended up drinking this particular Kool-Aid whether it's COVID obviously that was a big one even Russia Ukraine the occasional even halfway neutral Trump comment. And this one is certainly gonna get me some of that and I would predict probably even turn the dial up on it because these are two groups of people that a lot of folks out there just for some reason really emotionally vested in way more so than the Uyghurs or the child slaves in the African Congo

1:17:19 Just the way it is. Just an observation." It even broke up The Leftovers show because the two hosts, two of the biggest streamers there are—not my favorite people but clearly very popular—they couldn't even agree to disagree on Israel-Palestine. It ended the show and their friendship And it's pretty clear that the discourse goes that if you say anything empathetic about Palestinian people, you're anti-Semitic or pro violent Muslim extremists and pro Hamas. Every single piece of rhetoric they've ever uttered must be something you support and it's just assumed there is no way you could have equal empathy for working class Jewish people or concert goers who might have been victims of a planned attack

1:18:09 Which is also something that stuck out to me as Joe was talking about the concert attendees actually being mostly international, largely Europeans who traveled to this music festival. Well strategically for a false flag that would make a lot of sense because it would be nice if the target you hit was an international event so you could drum up more support for your response by having victims from all over the Western world But I just hate to see this stuff happen. I hate to see innocent bystanders anywhere used by the big machine, like I'm sure most of you guys at this point have seen some real mental gymnastics used to try and justify one part or another. I've heard people say, well Hamas was democratically elected so the people get what's coming

1:19:04 And that's insane kind of thinking. I wonder how many Obama voters want to be personally accountable and responsible for his drone strikes? And are victims voting records going to be considered before they're blown up, even if Hamas was democratically elected in a fair election everyone didn't vote for them so it's a wild rationale you can just start dropping bombs and shooting into crowds because well they were democratically elected That means people signed up to be human shields or collateral damage. Plus, it's been a common understanding since the 9-11 response that if you go around killing 100 citizens to get one terrorist well you just made who knows how many new terrorists when you kill the loved ones of people who wanted to stay out of it until they had nothing left to lose so even on a surface level that's another thing that doesn't make sense

1:20:04 Another inexplicable fact that the official numbers are 11,000 civilians killed and 60 Hamas members killed. And that's considered reasonable! If an armed bystander saved a crowd from a mass shooter but killed 183 people before he got them would we celebrate that as a win? It's just crazy talk Even the idea of telling everyone to leave and moving a million people this way because the attack is going that way, and pausing for supplies and travel

1:20:41 How does that make any sense, that Hamas would just stay put while the innocent civilians travel to the safe space? There's no mixing up there. But that's what the news is saying is happening and everyone just nods and says well, that's good. Yes, it's the right thing to do now. It must just be Hamas versus the Israeli military. The Israeli Defense Force of course always defense you know And I don't want to get too into the weeds here, but I've learned not to take anything at face value and that every major war or conflict is fertile ground for a ton of propaganda and counter-propaganda. A competition for narrative control and how things should be framed...and I hear so many alternative narratives that I just kind of shrug sometimes and say yeah maybe

1:21:30 I try not to get attached to any one idea and absorb all the various takes that are out there, and then kind of just rank them by what makes most sense given the general way things have happened in the past. And with that approach in mind Joe makes a lot of sense! Obviously that's why I brought him on to talk about these things as for some of this stuff we got into in our later conversation I have a lot of unanswered questions about World War II that will probably always be unknown, but any time there is war or an ethnic cleansing or mass civilian death or slavery the people driving it are going to say well we weren't really doing anything. Look here's some pre-selected evidence that its not that bad

1:22:20 And just as you'll have some people latch on to the mainstream story, you will have people latch onto that counter-propaganda—that camouflage, to use Joe's term—and think that's the real answer. It's not always as simple as counter narrative equals truth! You can't be that lazy, sorry to say. But the reality is we have leaders that love to routinely arrange for us to kill each other or at least hate each other. And that is the core problem that we have to address, and I think Joe would agree. So for my money, that was a really great info-rich interview that took us through a lot of unexpected places and found some signal in all the noise

1:23:05 If you were infotained listening to the free first hour, well I'm not even going to talk about what The Plus Show contains today because some questions and topics were certainly planned to be behind closed doors. If you don't like that, you can start your own show that's fully publicly available and doesn't do subscriptions and talks about all these things and see how well it goes! But if you like what you heard, join Plus, get five two-hour shows a month instead of just the free first hour episodes. It's easy click the link at the top of your show notes so you can access the Plus Show feed which you can then use to listen on any of the same old podcasting apps right below that is a link for the Patreon which you can also use to access the full archive and ongoing episodes

1:23:57 But through that Patreon system, you can also listen to PLUS on Spotify if that's your preferred way to listen. I have been putting video clips up from these episodes on the various social media places that THC has a presence...I might skip this one? I don't know or i might just not put it on YouTube at least! I don't think there's any safe 10-minute chunk But I thank Joe for his time and insight. I look forward to future books and future conversations, and I wish the best for all regular people just trying to live that become victims of these sad situations—these cabal machinations and movements on the global chessboard collateral damage because you were born in one type of meat suit over another, and these people have some weird obsession about that

1:24:50 It's all unfortunate. But with that, let's go to the meetup calendar before we call it in on deck We have Oakland California at two pitchers brewing we have Cape Girardeau Missouri Minglewood brewery Chateau Lafayette and Ottawa Canada on November 18th as well The conspiracy theorizers at High Springs Brewing in high springs Florida on December 2nd and December 3rd Mount Cotton, Australia. A hangout at Venman Bushland Park if you want more details about any of those hop on the website If you're gonna go make sure you RSVP it's only common courtesy and if he didn't hear one near you make one Find some people that you can talk to about all this kind of stuff and make some new friends while your old ones Go crazy That's it for me I've done my part

1:25:46 Your move, news narrative consumers propaganda controlled puppets and ignorant advocates for violence. Your fucking move! I won't take it No i refuse If its alright Ill keep my refuge I've been scheming Of bigger things And have to leave My old life behind Gotta transfer To the inner earth I built a box Built a hole Going under and now you'll find me in the bunker Yeah, the laughing Ely classic while the scheming this is who do you sue then I say

1:27:00 Tell you the basics, they print your money Got the Fed in your head currency Now they're smiling and you're caged meat How this happened? how you don't see? I can't let ya plunder Plunder is a plunder I can't let ya plunder Plunder Plans are simple The best protection of all Is the special shelter Built according to specifications Of your local civil defense organization

1:27:45 The basement of any house or building will become a good improvised shelter if you block the windows with sandbags. If you don't have sandbags, just what can you do? Bunker! Take it under You'll find me in the bunker! Bunker! Take it under You'll find a bunker! Bunker! Take it under Me and the bunker! Bunker! Plunder is a play pillage and plunder Plunder is a plunder, pillage and plunder