Jeran Campanella | The Flat Earth, Early Explorers, & The Mysterious Polar Regions

00:05 That's true, Dr. Seuss! Alright, Hiresight Chatters. You hear people saying that everything we've been taught is a lie... ...that our education system is little more than a propaganda machine and the materialist science is just as much a religion as any of the others And to a large extent I do think they're right We're presented with credentialed talking head experts that tell us there's nothing beyond the randomly self-exploding universe

01:04 that science has everything figured out and the Nazi lab coats that stalk NASA have no ulterior motives than to present the public with their latest research for the good of mankind. Well, over and over again during this course I've been surprised to find truths I thought self-evident are actually conjured up to distract, deceive, and distort in deeper ways than many suspect and we should be careful to routinely question things we think we know And with that said, ever since the infamous Eric DeBay episode I've had a large segment of listeners clamoring for more exploration of the flat earth paradigm. We've also seen more and more researchers and guests open themselves up to the idea that reality's construct is just as much of a deception as the moon landings false flag attacks in Columbus discovering America

01:47 And while I still remain earth-shape agnostic, I'd rather hang around those who might go too deep as opposed to those who don't go deep enough. That's why today's guest is Jaron Campanella He is a fellow corporate retail hell refugee that I consider one of the most reasonable rational voices in the Flat Earth community whose work I got into after a heavy recommendation from our good pal Marty Leeds Jaren runs the popular flat-earth focused YouTube channel, Jarenism with over 70 thousand subscribers and it's a real pleasure to have him here. Jaren my man welcome to The Higher Side! Hey Greg thanks for having me I appreciate it love the show Alright, aw man thank you and I do appreciate you being here. Like I said, I tend to be earth shape agnostic which pisses off both sides because everyone is just so damn sure of something that I find almost too big to know but i have really been impressed with some of the proofs the flat earth community uses but others just don't seem quite as convincing So im stuck

02:43 But I think the best way to open the door here is to show the major holes in the official paradigm first, so that people can see the need to rework the model or question what we've been told. So I guess to kick this off, what do you consider some of the most convincing discrepancies are flaws in what were told would be the mainstream model? Yeah, thanks. Well you know all I ask from people is that they are open-minded and if they kind of understand where we're coming from with the whole idea of the flat earth and i think many people just right off the bat again dismiss it as a crazy conspiracy theory or something that we've known for thousands of years and really they need to look at the whole plate of information and kind of put themselves in the position of NASA or put themselves in the position of science

03:29 and think about what would happen if at some point in your investigations that you realize that you were drastically wrong about something as fundamental as the shape of the earth. And what would you do if you were NASA for instance, you know? If you realized that you couldn't go to the moon and that you never will be able to is that something that you would be able to release? The answer's probably no that, you know to continue on with what you're doing and to continue your research and to continue your money. To continue your funding from the government You would need to make sure that you held up that Apollo myth for as long as possible And that's what it seems like they're doing so you need to kind of put yourself in That position first of all and then as far as the you know the best proof is

04:13 You know, I would first of all say it's really a combination of all my videos that made me quote unquote flat earther. When you do the research and start looking into it, you have to realize that a lot things are going to be explained away by science in some way or another That should be expected And then once you've gone through and looked at the history of everything, and you've looked at quotes from major physicists. The way that they tell you how they come across their answers and what they basically base everything on... That's when you can kind of start to formulate your own opinion or your own theory. That's basically what I've done is by looking at everything You know you can go to George Ellis who is one of the mainstream physicists? He said that

04:57 he can construct a spherically symmetrical universe with the Earth at its center and you could not disprove it by observations. And then he says that, cosmology is based on a philosophical notion and A lot of cosmology tries to hide that and in that quote I thought To myself when I first saw it, you know Here's the mainstream physicist telling people that a lot of cosmology which is a science tries to hide that So when I hear that and I realize okay so science is trying to hide some things or is keeping something so themselves Then I started exploring from that point and really you just get to these fundamental issues, which is

05:37 like our senses. You know, I think that our senses can be trusted we trust them every day all day and we don't realize that and we also allow science to tell us your senses can't be trusted that they're there to fool you or they will fool you but really when you break it down yeah if a scientist develops some maybe it's an illusion that they tell you to look at and stare at this dot for a certain amount of time and then this dot will disappear or whatever you've also got other effects that they do and Yeah, those are meant to fool your senses so in those cases your senses do fail you but for the most part Your senses are exactly and do exactly what they should Tell you things are hot tell you when to cross the street when not to cross the street when something's safe When it's not and unless you're fooled your senses always work as they're supposed to but when it comes to things In the sky when it comes to where you live

06:29 All of a sudden again, they tell you that your senses fail you. So even though you can go outside look at the sky and see stars that look to be really close science tells us that the nearest star other than the Sun is 25 trillion miles away mm-hmm and people I think have a hard time even grasping what twenty five trillion Miles would be I mean You know a trillion seconds is thirty one thousand years So, you know when you think about 25 trillion miles that is just a ridiculous number and they tell you that's how far they are. And you have a choice either believe in what men tell you or to believe what your eyes tell you and when you look at the sun it clearly to me at least

07:09 Traverses the sky, you know The Sun is what's moving not the earth and when it comes to the spin of the earth We'd know nobody in the history of the world a hundred billion people has ever felt the Earth to be moving Yet they tell us that it is and that our senses again fail us So, you know Those are some of the biggest proofs to me water Definitely always finding its level always being flat. That's something that I Until I see evidence in the contrary it's hard for me to just accept that the ball that they show me on TV or The ball that NASA gives, me the blue marble is Something that exists in reality. To me It looks like a depiction. It looks like a drawing. It looks like

07:48 CGI and so when I see that and I see the water hanging upside down or sideways it Tends to not meet my opinion of the world based on my senses And so I used to think that my senses do fail me often now. I don't I now think that for the most part My sense is unless they're fooled Do the job they're supposed to and my senses tell me that the earth is flat hmm Well, it is interesting you bring up that nearest star. This was something I was going to get into later but when i was getting ready for this show I did a little math in regards to what we're told about space and the stars and I do find this a little fishy so we're told the sun is a little over 800 000 miles in diameter it's 93 million miles away and looks

08:30 about the size of a dime from our perspective on Earth. Meanwhile, these other stars are trillions of miles away in fact that nearest star and just keep in mind how many stars we actually see in the night sky thousands of them! The next nearest is said to be 24 trillion miles away and all other stars would have to be further than that... And we can see them? I mean They're supposed to be 24 trillion miles of line of sight in space and almost all directions. That that doesn't sound right to me I mean, 24 trillion miles of line of sight and it's something you can always see nothing ever crosses that path? I don't know it does seem odd

09:14 Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And I mean really when you look at the Sun being what do they say? You know It would take eight minutes for us to know that it blew up or something They tell us because it's eight light-minutes away So if you doubled that and then picture as we double this distance that the Sun is reducing its size so a double that That's 16 light minutes and then double that again Now you're looking at a light half hour and then double that again and you're looking at a light hour Well stars are like years away yet even in the light hour would you still be able to see the Sun after you've doubled the distance, doubled the distance, doubled the distance? Seems to me that the Sun would disappear relatively quick in a light hour maybe a light day but never be visible in a light year or multiple light years as is the case with the stars.

10:01 Yeah, man it is a curious thing and to kind of dive deeper into the problems with the mainstream theory I've heard you talk about how the math just doesn't work for the heliocentric globe model What are you referring to there? I'm sure some of these things we're talking about now But can you give us some other examples well as far as the math You know You know mostly when you're talking about the speeds and the orbits and things like that I mean, i do think that space is a mathematical construct So I definitely do think the math itself works but that doesn't mean that. I find it to be reality right? I mean i've said before That if i told you i had four million dollars in the bank And then i was spending two million today and then a million tomorrow That we would all agree that i would have a million dollars left after that The math works but that's not reality i don't have a thousand dollars on my bank account

10:49 You know, so math works yes But it doesn't always imply that what you're talking about mathematically exists in reality So when you talk about the earth spinning at 1,000 miles per hour or going around the Sun and 66 thousand miles per hour Or the Sun and everything going around the Milky Way at 480 thousand miles per hour These speeds are all needed in their model. And the question becomes do Do they work in reality or are they reality? Really if you picture yourself getting up away from the earth right now, if we kind of took off in a little spacecraft and got outside of the earth and were looking at the whole say solar system everything would actually be standing still.

11:27 That crazy speed seems crazy, but it's because of the distance we have to travel right and we have to go 66 thousand miles per hour To get all the way around the I think it's 585 million mile yearly track that we have to go around the Sun and As crazy as that sounds in his fastest at sounds if you got up And we're looking at the whole system right now in real time everything would be standing still because because the distances are so vast that's why the speed numbers are so big. So it really seems to me to be a construct, anybody who tells me the sun that is in the sky is 93 million miles away and that its a million times bigger than earth? That's pretty crazy and they better have

12:08 Lot of evidence and proof to show me that and I don't think that they've ever gone that route It's not like they waited until we were old enough to question things to teach us These numbers in the way that the globe works They taught it to us when we were in you know first and second grade at a period in time where none of us had The capacity to even understand what they were telling us. And when you don't have a chance of coming out of Fourth fifth sixth grade without being a staunch believer in the globe model really it's a great setup if you're trying to deceive people because You know you get to this age and when you bring it up to people they will not even want to hear you Because of what it implies and that implies that everything that they believe their entire life may not necessarily be the truth Mm-hmm

12:52 And what I do love about your channel and your work is you have the numbers and the details of the conventional paradigm down pat. It's just so funny because you bring this up to a lot of regular folks, they'll be like oh this is ridiculous! The Earth is clearly round. You say okay well what's the diameter or circumference of the Earth? What are any of these numbers that you take blind faith in? Oh they've got it but you really don't know anything about it but you're sure that's how you can actually tell them, you're supposed to be 25 thousand miles around. And it's just interesting that they don't even know these things and you know their paradigm better than the so-called true believers. It's the way you have to do this kind of research

13:36 Yeah, you have to know what it is that you are saying isn't true. And for me that was a big part of it going through and actually looking at these numbers and just coming into some strange ones I mean for instance the idea that the Sun as far as seasons they say that seasons are based off the angle of the sun because during our summer... Are you in North America? Yes San Diego Okay, yeah. So we're both in California so when the Sun is and this will be something you can tell me what you think But the Sun would seem to me to be much closer during the summer It seems to be definitely more above my head during the summer it's definitely further south and it's lower in the sky Seems like it's further away if I go out and look at a sunrise During the summer I can feel the heat on My face whereas if I go out during the winter when the sun is its zenith You know which would be a 12 o'clock

14:29 I don't really feel the sun. I can see it off in the distance, but it doesn't feel warm to me." So the mainstream belief is that the sun is actually three million miles closer during our winter And that to me is just crazy. And 3 million miles may not seem like much when you're talking 93 million miles, but then again it's 375 Earth diameters so if you picture the Earth as a ball and then make 375 more of those balls that's how closer the Sun is during the the winter for us and I mean that to me doesn't seem to be the truth it just doesn't seem like it's a fact and that's what they tell us. And so for me, it's easier when I look at the flat earth model and I look at how that's been laid out for us in the ideas of people are starting to come do around the idea of the flat earth... That's one in which it shows that the Sun is clearly closer to me during this summer and so you know I have to go with which evidence best fits my reality

15:25 And then as a conspiracy enthusiast i'm always frustrated in an argument when someone responds with well just too big of a secret there be too many people involved like i've heard that on everything from nine eleven to the moon landings and it's a pretty big assumption to hang your beliefs on but. At the same time, I do find myself making this very argument about the Flat Earth Model. However when you consider career fields that would involve the shape of the earth like surveying, you do find some interesting things to quote your website You say... simply not how it is done. Notice to begin chapter two below from the basic surveying methods guide, it states that most surveying activities are performed with the pseudo assumption that measurements are being made with reference to a flat horizontal surface. Then in diagram 2.1 comes a classic line quote by definition the curved surface of a sphere is termed a level surface and I mean, that's a fairly strange statement you got to admit

16:35 Yeah, there's a lot of them like that. I mean really When you look at it, it's basically a war of words because if you ask somebody who is a globe believer why is the sea level in San Diego and also sea level in Australia. And they'll tell you that both those positions are level That's the word that they will use So then you're like okay well then the Earth is flat It's a plane and they'l say no Because both areas The sea level on San Diego and in Australia Are both equal distance from the center of the Earth therefore they're level and that's where a lot of people just get to the point where you have to kind of throw up your hands and say well if that's allowed then, You're right. You'll never be disproven as far as the globe because you're just able to use metaphysical ideas And to me The whole idea of a ball and things pulling to the center of a sphere and gravity pulling to the center those things have not been proven As should be required of things before they are taught to first graders

17:36 I've asked people before, you know show me where things pull to the center of a sphere and they'll pull up some picture from the ISS Where these guys are squeezing water out of a straw into a little ball and I'll say okay now That's them squeezing the water into a ball. Why don't you dump a pitcher of water in? The you know space station well The pitcher of water would never get together and form a sphere it would be a disgusting mess all over the place And I've actually seen them drop like 30,000 ping-pong balls inside of one of these parabolic flights and they didn't join together and make any kind of sphere They went all over the place until the plane came out of its parabolic arc And then they fell to the floor so To me those are things that if I saw evidence that things pulled through the center of a sphere and you know these massive

18:21 conglomerations of mass would then generate more things to the surface of the sphere, then I might start to believe it. But to me, I don't ever see that. I don't see any evidence of that. I don't see any evidence that there can exist a sphere with water on its surface that doesn't fall off, and these are the kind of things that make you have to say is this really the truth or is it a metaphysical mathematical concept that they've convinced people was true and really isn't backed by the kind of evidence that should be required anything that's considered scientific. Hmm. And yeah, the gravity thing is where a lot of the debates on flat Earth and round Earth seem to devolve into. To further your point there another quote from your site as you say, A balloon filled with hydrogen which is the lightest of the gases and lighter than nitrogen oxygen and the rest of the elements that make up air will rise if released

19:16 A balloon with helium will do the same because it is also lighter than the air around it, but it will rise up slightly slower. If however you have a baseball and release it, it will fall to the ground not because of gravity as you were taught but because the baseball weighs more than the air around it. Gravity is simply a magical word used for an all-encompassing force that does whatever is needed of it and in most cases it is used to prove a ball earth. I think that's a fairly decent summary of what gravity would mean or what this force would be to a flat earther in their model yeah the only argument I've really got based on my opinion about gravity is the continuing question of why does it fall down you know, why doesn't it fall up? Or why doesn't it fall to the side and to me it's just not a fair argument because if it did fall any other direction then that would be down so it's not

20:09 You know, that's not really a good argument against what I'm saying. What i'm saying is simply the earth seems to be constructed the way that you would expect which is the heavier elements being at the bottom and as you go up things get lighter and those things help me explain...you know like he said a helium balloon which clearly has mass but it weighs less than the air that's around it so it rises up. And I've yet to heard anybody who believes in the conventional idea of gravity be able to explain a helium balloon, because to me if you're believing in the Newtonian idea of gravity then you have two things of mass-the earth and the balloon filled with helium and they should be attracted to each other that's what gravity is. It's that pulling force to pull those two things of mass together So why is the helium balloon allowed to disrespect gravity

21:01 and do what it wants and move away from it. And that's something I haven't heard, they'll bring in buoyancy and they'll bring another things like that but they still don't answer the question of why have you described a force a pulling force between two things of mass, yet in this case it's allowed to go against that. So to me it just makes more sense than when you really look at the word gravity which comes from gravitas which means weight that's what I think essentially gravity is simply the weight of items and if they're heavier then their surrounding area they're going to fall down and if there lighter they rise up It's that simple and I think yeah the idea of gravity is kind of magical word

21:40 they need it and when they looked at the universe and saw galaxies and things in the distant didn't act as they were supposed to or as gravity dictates well, They didn't go back like you're supposed to in science and reevaluate your theory of gravity instead They just made up dark energy and dark matter and just said these things exist we've never observed them but they must exist and the reason why for that ultimately is because they know they can't go back and and examine gravity or else how is the earth a ball to start with? I mean, that's an interesting point. And so a lot of the time when trying to make a case for a huge widely accepted lie, I find it helpful to go back to the origins of that lie and lay out where it comes from how it was spread. Can you talk just a little bit about the heliocentric globe model? And how such a paradigm change could have been accomplished? What can be said about the people involved in their affiliations that might cause us to be more skeptical of their motivations here like who is behind this

22:41 Yeah, it just depends on whose evidence you believe because really now what science has done is they've taken away the idea of the flat earth and said no which is the concept that was invented and never was believed. That people have known for thousands of years when really if you look at it and do some your own research you'll see books that clearly were written in the 1800's to talk about the fact that Columbus with somebody saying he thought That it wasn't true and that he could go around and there was a lot of people at the time Spanish queens and kings And people like that they were a believer That if you went off that direction, then you would just disappear. You would fall off the edge or whatever They believed I was taught that yeah exactly and that seems like it was kind of the truth now to this certain point They want people to stop

23:26 believing that, so they said oh no it was Washington Carver and he made up the story about Columbus thinking this. And really people have always known but if you think about it I mean the printing press didn't come into existence until the 1600s. So before that nobody was really a learned scholar you would add scribes and knew how to read and write but besides that most people were illiterate so anything that they would have thought or believed would have been by word of mouth And so there wasn't a general idea. Oh all these scholars believe this or that I think what happened was is that they realized when they started printing books that They could print whatever they wanted

24:04 And I do agree with the idea a little bit where you say, well this is too big of a conspiracy because it certainly seems like this is so monumental and so big about the very foundation of where we live. But really when you take a look and step back and see that by putting it in books It would have taken but one generation to have the people who were taught that become your teachers And then they teach the new students and from there You know, the whole story would kind of go on its own. That's kinda what I think happened If you ask me personally I do think that they originally some of these guys of science thought that the earth was a ball They saw boats go off in the distance, they would slowly disappear and to them it would look like they disappeared from the bottom up.

24:46 And then when it they said oh those people must have fell off or they you know, who knows what well when the people came back They said where were you? Where'd you go? They say we just went that way and they so we thought you disappeared. They said no You just keep going So they kind of said Oh Well, they must be going around a ball So I do think that they believed that for a period of time now when they would have realized that wasn't the truth I'm not really sure if it would have been you know 1700s 1800s I don't know when that would have been but when they did realize it I think that they realized shoot if we admit this now after they kind of you know outs the church and told the church You're wrong and science is better than the church, which I agree with and I don't want to live in a world That's you know run by the Catholic Church either so, you know I appreciate science for doing what they did in that regard But at a certain point when they realized there were wrong about something They should have been up front about it And said, you know our investigations have shown that this is actually true. And then they go on from there but I really think that

25:42 the idea of a flat earth kind of leads to the idea of a creator or a purpose, or a reason, or a specialness about the Earth. And I think that science was always afraid of that and then always afraid that they would be doing themselves a disservice by admitting that they were wrong about that and I think they took the lesser of two evils. They just figured we'll keep up with this lie and will be able to Continue our march of science as long as we don't tell people this truth, you know And that's where it becomes anybody's guess. It depends on the research that you do Whether or not you see that same kind of feeling but it looks to me like a lot of science has always tried to be in every facet against the idea of a creator any question that comes to mind that they can answer so

26:30 The whole idea of the Earth being the center of the universe is the same thing, that they will never allow anything to be anywhere close to the Earth being at the center because the next question becomes who put us here or why? Why are we in the center and that's something science can't answer. So instead they would rather push us out to the outskirts of some arm of the Milky Way and say oh we're on a balloon and it's expanding so everything is moving away from us because really All things can be explained much easier by saying we're the center of the universe Then it makes sense that all galaxies move away from us because we're the center and there's a lot of observations that prove that But science won't even consider that thought and that's what tells me that they're not exactly

27:09 exactly science, you know it's not science like we were taught with the scientific method and Not being biased. I mean they're completely biased again. I understand why? I mean I think my wife said it the other day she said that peer review is just a veiled word for conspiracy and It kind of is yeah That idea of pure view is really just men getting together who And we have to understand that they're human beings where I think we were taught this idea of scientists like their own above petty human thoughts and opinions when really they are humans. And all of us have to agree that, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson or somebody like that is never going to consider the thought that maybe they've been lying to people for 30 years. That maybe the things that they studied in school aren't the truth and maybe they've been standing up in front audiences for years

27:59 and teaching a false idea, they can never even consider that thought. And because all their friends are in the scientific community, all their family considers them smart... So, you know that's where I start to see. Oh, okay That makes sense to me that a peer review group which is say 30 guys say 300 guys doesn't matter who? Have spent their entire careers building their ideas and thoughts and papers around a certain Foundation And so any paper that comes across their desk there is questioning that very foundation I don't think they're in a position to even question that truthfully right Yeah

28:36 You're even being pretty kind giving them the benefit of the doubt because I would think a guy in a position like Neil deGrasse Tyson would be a willful deceiver rather than just someone who's stubborn on something they were taught in school but you are right about those pretty serious, spiritual implications for the flat earth model and i'm honestly not in love with them but I can see how if the elites goal was to distract humanity from the idea of a creator god you would have to go to these lengths to do it. You would have to create an entire narrative and paradigm that could explain the emergence of our reality without that creator,

29:16 It seems very difficult to do and they've had to go great lengths to do it, but there are also apparently deep esoteric deceptions promoted by Freemasonry even to the point that the square and compass, their symbol. I mean a square measures things on a flat surface, a compass makes a circle I think it was Manly P. Hall said that at the deepest levels of Freemasonry, it has to do with the shape of the earth that flat is for the profane masses and a sphere as enlightened and I think this is almost just like their religious doctrine they're trying to force out into the culture but

29:55 It is weird, the deeper you get into conspiracy the more intertwined religion spirituality and the cult do seem to be at the center of so much. We have these ancient myths and archetypes also of characters trying to get one over on the gods or overcome this creator who regulated us to this construct And I have had a lot of guests talking about their thoughts on the elite's true agenda to sort of jailbreak our environment, which sort of lines up with these mythological stories. Maybe it is just a pattern that keeps repeating but do you consider that some aspect of the elites' agenda? That is might be in line with this idea of busting out here or at least trying too?

30:32 Yeah, and I've seen a lot of evidence of it. One of the places at NASA is called the Neutral Buoyancy Lab It's where they've got that huge pool it's like one of the biggest pools in the world and they do all their training for spacewalks inside of it And there's this big mural on the side of the wall That's got kind of the Vitruvian man And he's inside of this circle and then there's a scuba diver swimming to him and handing him a tool and In the upper corner is a rocket that is breaking out glass enclosure that is closing this man in and so yeah, I see it everywhere and you know one of the Masonic terms that they use or you know one of their little sayings is on the level

31:13 that the Masons are on the level and I've always considered that interesting. And so yeah, it seems like the whole idea of the square and compass and the way that the Sun rises in sets is all tied together. That whole angle they have with a compass is the angle difference between the sun rising at each of the solstices from your location meaning there's that same angle if you look where it rises Those two different times a year. So I think that it definitely is encoded in these ancient beliefs and these ancient thoughts It's pretty obvious to me and a lot of people just want to ignore the connections with NASA and the occult Jack Parsons in the occult And if you've seen him or anybody that it is everywhere, right? Another thing I found interesting in your videos Is the breakdown of how much science fiction actually inspired the quote real science for example

32:04 Arthur C. Clarke, he came up with the idea for satellites in an article about hypothetical future technology NASA seems to have constructed the moon landing missions around a template from a Jules Verne book like three American astronauts multiple similarities they recovered the pod from the ocean It's like they just copied what he wrote and then did a stagecraft version of it and promoted it as real. And also William S Burroughs went so far as to say in his speech that science fiction writers, quote laid the blueprint for the space age. And it does start to get you thinking how strange would it be for real technologies to actually follow behind works of fiction? So closely Yeah, it's really strange especially like you said The Jules Verne book and there's a lot of instances where people who have called certain events hoaxes

32:52 seem to have been basically crafted after some story that was written years earlier. I don't know if you've heard about the book, The Titan? Mm-hmm. The Titanic! Right which is the book that was written about the Titanic and was about a boat, the Titan, that was sailing in between London and New York it's almost the exact same story they didn't have enough lifeboats to save everyone on board it just crazy These events would happen right after these books were written and when you go and look into these authors, they're usually a part of these Masonic clubs or groups. So yeah definitely interesting stuff there and you write about Arthur C Clarke and the idea of satellites and really

33:33 You know, that's one that I think is really gets people upset when you say the satellites don't exist. And when I say that, you know, I don't discredit or to say that they can't put balloons up that stay up for an incredible amount of time. They can basically control their rising and falling such a small amount that they can keep them up for you know, up to a year at a time. So I don't discredit that our DirecTV satellite could be pointed towards some balloon in the sky You know That's not out of the realm of possibilities at all But what is out of the realm of possibilities in my opinion? Is these huge metal crafts that go up and get placed into orbit because they're all based on basically Arthur C Clarke and Newton

34:13 Newton basically told a thought experiment where he said if you had a cannon at the top of the earth and If you shot it short, it would hit the earth And if you shot it too far or too fast It would go out into space But if you shot it at the perfect speed that it would fall and just continue to fall around around the earth for all time and I think that that is something that again hasn't been proven to the level that I Think it should be if we're gonna all believe in these satellites That would be out there getting pelted by solar storms would be getting hit by micro meteoroids and all all this damage should be done in the very hot thermosphere. Right, and it just seems crazy and they have these little jets on them that keep them in orbit and I know people say they see them but again you don't know what you're seeing could be a balloon could be a balloon that's glistening into sunlight that's up not even as high as they tell us but yeah for all that they give us with GPS and if you believe in GPS the idea of the satellites that are out there

35:12 that are basically triangulating your location, you have to believe that these things are measuring the time that it takes to send things by the speed of light and then multiplying that all up when really we know how triangulation works. And you can just simply do it a 2d plane with three locations basically three points and then wherever you're at you send out these beams and by using those three points You can narrow it down to one spot By just using radiuses of circles that if you have point number A, and there's a radius around it well now you know that this person is located as a certain radius from that circle And then you go another circle from another tower

35:50 and wherever it's at, now you're narrowed down to two locations because those two circles would only cross at 2 points. And then you do it again from the third location and that will give your exact location So this is something that I think the Loran system and GLONASS and these kind of things there has been papers written that hey if we do this kinda GPS from ground-based stations It would be exponentially cheaper! And so... To believe in satellites You have to believe that We want to do things more expensively We wanna take into account the speed of light when these beams are going through atmosphere and weather, which would you think slow down these beams? Yet people want to believe in the idea of satellites for whatever reason when I think it was just a story and a way to steal money.

36:36 Provocative, man. And I've also looked pretty heavily into the accounts of early explorers especially around the polar regions because I've been a fan of the hollow earth theory for a long time and when you read what some of these explorers have said about birds around the North Pole migrating further north or warm polar seas, you find a lot that you wouldn't expect to find in the traditional model the treaties and regulations that keep people away from these areas only adds fuel to the speculation. But I've heard you talk about explorers like Captain Cook and Magellan, and that their logs actually support a flat earth model. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah, and I think that's, you know, a tough subject because when those guys got back and turned their logbooks over to the king or queen it was years until those log books were made public so it's hard to know what exactly was changed

37:27 especially like Cook's second journey, which was the one where supposedly he claims to have not found the southern continent and says that basically one doesn't exist. But when he got back and turned his logs over it wasn't until after he was dead until that logbook even came out which was on his third journey so that's how long it takes for these logs to even come out So you know That's the kind of thing where I start questioning but yeah When you look at the distances that they traveled Magellan or Cook. Cook did I think you know almost 60,000 miles on his second journey and when you look it up online you'll find the path that they'll show you the path but it's basically like he just wandered around going north going south going north going south same thing with Magellan who didn't even make it back he died on that journey as well and then you look at the British ship Challenger which

38:18 went around the south and I think it came back at 69,000 miles. So when you hear that and you realize okay well with an equator of 24,901 a journey around the southern latitudes should be less than that i could see it being equal to that if you were not quite sure where you were going and you were traveling north and south but to think that it would be three or four times the circumference of the globe Seems ridiculous to me and it makes more sense when you look at the flat earth model that they were traveling in a circle around The flat earth mm-hmm, and the rings yeah right It's interesting of course every case for the hollow Earth is gonna bring up Admiral Byrd before long But how do you interpret that saga from a flatter perspective? Yeah You know for me I have a hard time putting any faith in any kind of Mason fair enough so with with bird. I've

39:09 I've never really put much into him because i think also the journey The log book that talks about him going into the earth. I think was written by his nephew if i'm not mistaken or not Written, by his nephew released you found yeah Right, and said that it was written by Bird. But we can't be sure of that but as far as the idea of going north and finding lush lands and mountains I definitely don't discredit that. For my opinion of the Flat Earth is a little different you know lot people draw the idea of the Gleason's map Well, I tend to think that if you really took a plane of existence kind of picture all these continents on a plane and You created this idea of longitude and latitude With the center being the North Pole that you could trap people in that area as a circle because anywhere you travel your compass has to adjust to the north And so you're basically just going to be doing circles around the north. That's what it looks like they did So as far as if you went further into the north

40:09 And who knows what your compass would do? I've never been there, I can't say. But maybe somebody thought they were going into the earth and did see lush gardens or lush mountains and animals... So those are the kind of things that I mean have you looked into the idea of The Iron Republic? Have you read that book yet? No, I have not! Very interesting so yeah there's this guy JT Ellington I think or JP Ellington who wrote in a 1902 issue or volume of the Florida Magazine, which only lasted 1900 to 1903. And in that magazine he wrote a story called The Iron Republic and at the beginning of it he talks about how when this story's over that the ideas of science are going to need to be rewritten to a zetetic method because the earth is a plane and then he goes on to tell a story that basically lost some election and bought a boat

40:59 and went down south, and when they were traveling down there they saw this opening like an inlet. And they went into it and there was such a strong current that it carried them all the way through this inlet when they came out the other side They didn't know where they were, they just kept traveling After a month or two they ran into a new continent called The Iron Republic Sounds like a fantastical story but the more you read it he starts talking about airplanes and magnetic levitation being used as means of mass transit Talks about basically like Siri or those kind of things, you know Basically a box that sits on your desk that tells you the news and things like that So he's talking about all these things in 1902. Actually this story was written around that time 1902 or 1901 so it seems crazy that he would ever tell this story and it was over the course of several issues and then at The end of the story He's kind of coming back and saying okay I'm coming back home And he starts talking about the 24-hour Sun and how? The globe works

41:56 It completely seems like a new author and for anybody who reads like I do you can tell an authors writing style And I can tell that the end of this story is written by somebody else. It's not the same author so crazy things like that, and what basically he was saying is that there is another side or You know more water beyond Antarctica that he went through this so-called ice wall because it opened up. And so then I started thinking about the whole idea of global warming, and are they afraid that maybe during certain times it gets so warm that chunks of the Antarctic continent or ice ring whatever fall off and maybe inlets open? They want to really make sure that nobody notices or sees

42:38 that they can go through that to another side. So there's lots of things that are interesting about the Hollow Earth or people have called it puddle theory, which is basically like we are a puddle right in the middle of ice. Right yeah and that the ice walls are just barriers between different pens for humanity? Right! Yeah it's crazy Man, I love that kind of stuff and in one of your videos you also talk about a few Arctic explorers that recorded seeing land in the north had never made it on the official maps for example Perry said he discovered a new landmass. He called Crocker Land And then there was another explorer who recorded a place he called Bradley Land? I guess you could say that these were possibly misidentified places but

43:19 What are your thoughts on those records and what actually might be in what we refer to as the north? But I guess would actually be the center of the bullseye in the flat earth model Yeah, and I think that when it comes down to there is that it's hard to trust any of that right because we don't write And so for me. I just think it's so important that we get a actual real explorers who are willing to go out and look for these things now, and not just go with the mainstream narrative which is everything's been discovered. We live on this ball every piece of it has been explored and just drop it at that you know I think there's so much more than can be traversed or looked into our research and they're clearly not allowing that kind of research like Antarctica is the key to whether or not the earth as a globe

44:05 They have the Antarctic Treaty people think you can just go down there, but it's not that easy You know they've got laws saying you can't carry fuel below 60 degrees And if that's the case then you can't go down there for any amount of time because you'll run out of fuel So you basically can go down their cruise around for a little bit and you have to get right back up All the cruises that go down. They're all go to that little Know what you want to call it a little island tail that kind of pops out by South America all the cruises go down there It's not like you can go to different areas and all the people who work. They're working very specific locations locations and I've even read blogs from those people saying you're not even allowed to go on your own anywhere. You always have to take somebody with you, and even if you do take somebody with you there's only three or four little trails that you have to stay on. Your'e not allowed to do your own exploring so there is a lot of things set up there that seem like if they were trying to deceive people that exactly how they would do it And the fact that no planes fly over the south then they'll tell you something about the weather which makes no sense because

45:05 Planes are at 35,000 feet and when they're up there. They're at negative You know 50 or 70 degrees Fahrenheit anyway So it's not like the fact that the southern continent is cold has anything to do with with air flight So it just really comes down to, I want people to just explore and open their minds to the idea that it's possible that we're being deceived. And that's when you'll get people going out and doing their own research. We're gonna find out one way or another whether what we've been taught is true or whether it hasn't. It is a lot harder to wrap your head around than people think it is if you look at the flat earth map next to The Globe Paradigm

45:46 It's not, you know the ice ring it sounds like something that would be really easy to disprove but it's really not because from any continent if you go quote unquote south you would hit that ice wall and in reality you would just think you were on the continent of Antarctica. It's actually quite difficult and one thing I hear both sides using for evidence is flight paths and I know you've done videos where you have looked at very specific flights and their distances and the times of arrival And so, you know obviously you've done the research. But when I look at the flat earth map and say maybe Australia to South America would be the flight that might give it away? I know you've been through these arguments before but what would you say about flight paths and using that as evidence to try to determine the real shape?"

46:36 Yeah, and you know that would have been something that really led me to the idea of it being a globe if it wasn't so easily dismissed. And I'll explain why but you know we've seen somebody take the flight from Sydney to South America and that flight...I believe its 6,000 miles that it's listed as and the flight takes about 11 1⁄2 hours going in the direction of east. Going west it takes like 13 or 14 hours Which that alone, you know should call into question the globe because that's the way the globe spins It should be the opposite but isn't because of trade winds and jet streams But just going back to Sydney to South America Well We're basically saying when you look at the idea of a globe versus the flat earth That the flat earth would have more area than a globe and people should know that right if he took a flat piece of paper And tried to wrap it around

47:29 Ball that you're gonna have extra paper, right? The globe is actually less surface area So in doing that idea you can see that if you're going to make a flat plane where we live Fit to a globe. You would have to eliminate certain areas of that flat piece of paper Well, you're not going to eliminate land because people would catch on to that but you could eliminate big sections of ocean and And by doing that and then setting up a GPS system, what I was trying to point out is if you have planes flying from Sydney to South America. That as they're flying the only way that the plane knows how fast it's going and the only way that the pilots know how fast its going Is by ground-based GPS The plane does know how fast its moving through the air but we've also seen there are jet streams down there that move 200 or 250 miles per hour

48:20 So once you realize that and there's no way the plane would be able to know that meaning The jet stream is moving all the air in that direction. The plane is flying through the air at a certain miles per hour, and it can't go over the You know the speed of sound or create a sonic boom but you can set up plain to say 0.95 Mach and the plane will maintain that speed. But it doesn't always mean that's the speed the plane is going because if its in a jet stream, say its a 200 mph jet stream well the planes going 650 miles per hour at .95 mach Well, whatever the jet stream is is moving that whole mass together meaning it doesn't change The speed that the plane is going through the air So once you realize that then you realize if somebody did eliminate Ocean by just cutting it out of kind of our map That there would be no way for anyone to know except for the person who did that and If you start to think about that way I started thinking well wouldn't GPS know that they're in a place. It's weird and

49:18 That for instance GPS like hey, this plane isn't registering on any area that we know exists Well what's certainly interesting is in the south all the planes that go across the Southern Ocean disappear from GPS For a huge amount of time like the planes that goes Sydney to South America. They're missing from GPS tracking for Good 80% of the flight really? Yeah So the question becomes why are Are these planes disappearing and they'll describe it as oh, they're too far out of radar range Which again brings into question the idea of satellites who I thought we had satellites tracking planes right then you look at something like And I don't know your opinion of MH 370. Some people think it was complete in total hoax I for one thinks that makes more sense that the plane went out and Basically crashed into the ocean but into one of those areas that I'm talking about that has been removed from existence by

50:11 You know obviously they didn't remove it physically, but I mean if you cut it out of the idea of GPS well when you have boats down there searching for This lost plane. Well that they would never go to the area that technically doesn't exist And it might be hard for people to understand that but I think Once I learned kind of the vastness of these oceans, you know we kind of picture everything on such a small scale it's hard for us to imagine. Think how big your city is and then from there your state these are huge areas so when you're talking about the southern ocean or the pacific ocean it's such a vast amount of just water that it's kind of easy to understand that they would be able to remove it

50:49 Oh, by the way. The other thing that caught me is I said oh shoot You know i'm gonna go look into cruises because I said cruises would ultimately prove the globe meaning since I've now described that a plane can be traveling that distance of 6,000 miles and really come to find out it could be 9,000 miles and nobody would know the difference because that 3,000 has been cut out. I said that couldn't happen with cruises It would be impossible. The cruise can go 20 miles per hour You know if they're flooring it you know 23 miles per hour? You know it can't go fast enough to make up that kind of distance well I went looking and there is no cruise that travels from Australia to South America. If they do, they go up the coast of Japan, go around Alaska come down the west coast of United States and then go down to South America but no cruise crosses that water. Of course I get people tell me well why would they do that? You know there's no land if something happened to them maybe stuck out there

51:44 That may be the case, but also there is Easter Island down there. You'd think that would be a cruise that would stop at Easter Island. A lot of people who go on cruises actually enjoy the cruise atmosphere and not even so much the places you go to. So you think that there would be people who like to take a cruise from say New Zealand go across to Easter Island and then from Easter Island to South America. And they don't exist, and those are the things that make me question why when I do this kind of research do i keep turning up things that make sense on a flat earth but don't make sense on the globe? Well, yeah the GPS thing is interesting but if you were to consider that GPS is done through towers that are on land it would make sense that there would be a large chunk of ocean outside of the range and that you could kind of bookend it on each end and then that middle spot would be missing. And at high enough level in regards to the Malaysian flight

52:36 if someone wanted to disappear a plane and they were high enough to know about that, that would be the place to take a plane down for whatever reason. But it is really interesting man and just for a minute to get back to mysterious lands like the Iron Republic saga that you mentioned I've also heard you talking about Tibetan and Hindu legends like Shambhala and Meru Mountain stories of uh an imperishable sacred land at the North Pole Apparently, multiple cultures talk about this quote mountain at the navel of the world. And again I find these polar regions mysterious and fascinating in either model but i guess the suggestion that I've heard from people like Eric Dubé is that there is some type of magnetic mountain in the middle and that that is kind of why compasses point north but what are your thoughts on some of these legends like Tibetan Hindu legends? How they might actually reflect something real

53:32 Yeah, I think it's just to what level are they referring to reality? You know there is myths in every culture and we know that and once you read into them though. You should understand that the myths usually have a reason for being told right mm-hmm Rarely is there just some myth that somebody tells its got no real underlying story That they're trying to get across so when you look at the idea of Shambhala on the idea of the inner earth or the naval or the cosmic tree or the idea of the Tree of Life, they all seem to point to the idea of Mount Meru. And even Mercator who was considered one of the best cartographers at that time drew a map with those four continents which now are completely

54:19 erased from any maps. And so, you know it calls into question that's what I always go back to is that I'm just a big supporter of anybody who is willing to go and do this kind of research because I think its been shut off from us and I think the more people who say oh no you just go up there then they can look into it and see how there's a lot that blocks you from doing what you think is just so easy. The biggest thing for me going back even when you said one of the biggest things Well, east-west circumnavigation of the Earth has been done by billions of people. Myself have flown from San Francisco to the Philippines and my wife has flown from San Francisco To Germany, so I mean based on all that. I can say yeah people can circumnavigate the earth quite easily east-west But when you look at the idea of north south circumnavigation There's literally two or three people that claim to have done it and The one who claims to have done it first it took like four five years He's a Freemason he's

55:19 cousin of the Queen He's the one that's in the Guinness Book for it and really it just doesn't make sense when you look at it and say billions have gone east-west and One or two or three have gone north south. And I talked about in 2015 Towards the end of that year, I was watching this guy who is going to break the record for single plane flight basically being by himself a solo plane flight north-south circumnavigation and they had this thing called spider tracks where they were going to be tracking This plane so I was really interested in it said okay. I'll watch this guy he flew from like North Carolina down to South America then down to Brazil

55:59 And then he was supposed to be on the leg that would go from Brazil across the South Pole, and he was supposed to come out over by New Zealand. So when you're watching him, he goes from Brazil and hits a South Pole and turns around and goes right back to Brazil. Everyone's like what's going on? Why didn't she go by the flight path? Then he flew from Brazil to New Zealand across the Southern Ocean then from New Zealand up to Alaska and then Alaska back down to the North Pole, and then back down to his home in North Carolina. And then they gave him the record. That to me was like all the evidence I needed and said this is ridiculous that there's no way if we lived on a globe That somebody would consider what he did to be circumnavigating The earth that even had a flight plan that called for him to go across the South Pole. He didn't do it He blamed it on weather said that he got there and there was such a strong headwind Then he wouldn't have the fuel to get all the way across well, that kind of leads to the whole idea of the flat-earth model which would be

56:59 at least in my opinion, the further you get away from the sun the more treacherous the weather would get. And so I would think he'd have a pretty big headwind and you wouldn't need to turn around and that's basically what he did. So when they give him the record that makes me say alright there is something wrong here That would be something that would be disqualified You would not win the record for doing something that you didn't do He didn't circumnavigate the globe north-south and i don't think anybody has The reason for that would be explained pretty easily in a flat earth model Mm-hmm that is interesting and you do find That when you get to the figureheads of aviation and exploration And any relevant industry there's so many members of the Royal Society So many Freemasons, and then you hear stories like oh when they were on the moon They actually did a Masonic ritual or you hear that when they found the poles They did a Masonic ritual. It's almost like Masonic rituals code for we completely made this shit up

57:56 Yeah, all the guys that did the discovering of the southern and northern poles were all in the same organization Freemasons and from Amundsen and Scott. And yeah it just certainly seems like it is code and Buzz Aldrin fully admits that they did this Masonic ritual with a flag on the moon It certainly seems questionable in every way You look at any of these big aviation events Lindbergh crossing the Atlantic all those are shrouded by so much Nonsense and kind of like folklore. I mean if you read the story about Lindbergh It says that he fell asleep on that flight And then part of the time he was running out of gas and was 10 feet above the waves I mean just things like that That don't seem realistic, but you know, I don't think somebody was flying across the Atlantic ten feet above the ocean You know in falling asleep in that trip it just seems crazy to me But again

58:52 you know, who am I to question those things? I just think that when something doesn't look right then we have every right to explore it further and when you find out people are lying to you have done so, then those people shouldn't be trusted anymore. So for me stuff like the moon landing is so clear and once you've looked into it yourself and not just simply bowed down to the intellectual community of what they tell you have to believe because that's basically what it comes down with the moon landings as you have to believe it if you're going to be in the field of science or if you're going to be considered an intellectual And to me thats dogma thats religion its not

59:30 true science. It's not true inquiry, you know an inquiry is when you're actually looking and You don't care about what the answer is And that's really where I came from, you know, I didn't look into the flat earth and say I hope that the earth is flat So I'm gonna look into this and find The Earth to be flat it was a period of time In my life where I was so pissed at everything that had been shown and everything I'd been told from religion To science and saw all as A religion in each in their own way but with dogmatic foundations that you had to believe in and I got frustrated just said what's gonna research things and see. And only believe what i can prove it just so happen at the first thing that i was looking into was the moon landings,

1:00:10 And when I came to the conclusion that didn't happen, well then you have to start asking wait a second so that picture of the earth isn't true and from there then you really started opening up your eyes too. Well if they lied about what would be lying to hide And from there, then the flat earth kind of unfolds right in front of you. Yeah so many of the researchers that have gone flat earth that I've talked to over the past two years they often say that they started with trying to disprove it and then they realized they couldn't and now they're just still sitting in that space where they're like no! I'd love it to be disproven please and uh... nothing seems to work

1:00:48 It's interesting because I look at those top 10 reasons why the Earth is round lists all the time to try to get something out of them and they always mention a few things that I just think are bullshit arguments. In particular, the idea of flights when people say well why don't these people just take a flight once in awhile? I have been on four international flights in the past two years since doing that show with Eric Dubé and every time I try to pay great attention to where I think I am, and it's just too freaking hard honestly. Like I can't get any real conclusive evidence from those trips except that you don't see curvature – I can say that! That doesn't mean the Earth is round or flat but to say that you see curvature from an airplane I think is disingenuous."

1:01:32 People also always try to tell me about these images that we have of the Earth from space, like you mentioned. And they're just not true! In one of your videos you do a side-by-side comparison of NASA images and there are huge discrepancies for example South America is to the right of Florida in some images and to the left in others Spain and the water channels around it often look quite different. The Baja California area of Mexico looks different on these different maps, or these different quote unquote images in fact. And when I talked to Eric DeBaye, I thought some of the line-of-sight examples with lighthouses that you can see when they should actually be below the curve of

1:02:09 I thought those were pretty convincing and Neil deGrasse Tyson responded to that by saying, the Earth is not a perfect circle. It's an oblate spheroid that shaped more like a pear And so then i think okay well where's that picture of the Earth because you only show the blue marble? And you're now telling me it's a pear shape So either the top astrophysicist doesn't know what he's talking about or these images are not accurate at all Well, and the reason I know a lot of people have a different opinion of Neil deGrasse or these guys than I do because I do think that they are more Beneficial to let's say the elite or whoever is telling this lie. They're more beneficial to them if they truly believe it

1:02:48 I think that if you are lying then, you know You've seen all these false flags that have taken place That the reason we usually can easily tell when it's a false flag is due to the acting of The people who are lying true because they have such a hard time crying They have such a hard time showing true emotion where we all know what it would be like to lose a family member or To be crying cuz your son is missing or whatever. So So I think that they love the people like Bill Nye and Neil deGrasse, that are just such firm believers in what they are preaching. That I think they're more beneficial that way. Like when Joe Rogan asked Neil DeGrasse what the curvature formula was and Neil DeGrasse said oh you mean the gravity drop?

1:03:29 like he doesn't even understand the idea of the calculation for the curvature formula because once you're in that business those things are already assumed. There is no need to question the curvature formula of the ball earth if you've gone into astrophysics because You know that there's a ball so he comes across to me as somebody who has never even considered The idea of the earth not being a ball and he answers all his questions like that He seems to be Somebody who simply believes in whatever he's read in a book and people all say all the time. Where are your credentials Sharon? Where are your college credentials and I say well That's a good thing that I don't have those because what we're trying to say is that these people Have been taught or had been schooled or educated or indoctrinated

1:04:12 the lie and so of course, you know Neil deGrasse in terms of astrophysics is much smarter than I am because he's read the book which i think Is a lie and he can repeat it verbatim And he understands everything that's in the book. It doesn't mean its reality I think people fail to realize we've given a PhD to somebody who has never been to space never touched space Never tested things in space but yet We've given them the permission to lord over us that they know about these places like Saturn and Jupiter, things that are simply lights in the sky to all of us. Yet somebody's going to tell us that there are actual planets that are... they say Jupiter is a hundred times the size of Earth and Saturn is ten times as big but we don't know those things to be reality And what I really think it's missing from people is we've allowed people to construct our reality with words and stories

1:05:03 I understand why you have to add things to your reality that you've never experienced for instance. I do think Australia exists And I've never been there, but I've got enough information from pictures my mom's been there I've got friends who have been there I can find people who don't even know each other that all agree that these places exist well when it comes to planets and things like that Well, then you have to look at it and say well who is telling us that these planets exist and that they are as big as they say they are. Well really it comes down to just NASA Yeah You might have Roscosmos or you might have ESA but these are all government run agencies That have learned that by telling you things and showing new pictures That certainly look like they're CGI that people have adopted these things into their reality And that's where I think the problem lies

1:05:51 I'm okay with adopting Australia as reality in my world, but I'm not okay with adopting Mars as a terraform planet or Saturn as a gas giant with rings. Yeah, I can see Saturn in the sky and have a camera and zoom in to actually see what looks like the rings? I can see that but it doesn't tell me in any way how big that is compared to Earth Or that it's, I don't even know what a gas planet is anyway. But the idea of these planets you know? I just struggle with people adopting them into their reality and people love them and yet they'll never go there you'll never go to space And yet they love it They love the idea of us colonizing Mars right Elon Musk is gonna colonize Mars Why would you want to go somewhere where you can't live? Why would we want to go somewhere where we can't breathe There's nothing to eat There's nothing to drink why wouldn't we take care of the earth

1:06:40 first that we live on and when everything is perfect here, when no children are dying from starvation. When there's no homelessness then if they want to go out and explore the stars by all means have fun but until then I think that's money that is absolutely being stolen from people for basically to construct a lie Yeah, man. I mean you make interesting points and i know you've also looked into Anatoly Fomenko and the new chronology material this idea that much of history was fabricated and much of the timeline was built around records and documents that nobody has the originals for cooked up by the quote-unquote official Vatican chronologists and the reformation period and the inquisitions

1:07:21 could have largely been about destroying contradictory records and opinions. I find that to be a really interesting perspective, and maybe it's related to the heliocentric model that emerged in largely the same time frame couldn't you say? Yeah, I think again just goes back to the whole idea of people were illiterate and so the idea of our timescale Fomenko does a great job of using evidence To prove what he's saying which is something. I didn't get when I was taught history we were just taught it as it was fact and none of the errors or the miscalculations were ever even mentioned, or the ideas that you know a lot of this doesn't really make sense when you lay it out. It certainly seems like they taught us a history that was like The Greeks existed and nobody else existed And then came the Romans and the Romans existed and nobody else existed before that was the Egyptians and nobody else existed whereas what Fomenko is saying is that all these people existed at the same time

1:08:20 And he starts to lay it out in a way that certainly seems to make more sense. He talks about one of the things that I found to be the biggest problem with our history is, I went back because I sell books and own a bookstore and just online through my house not an actual brick-and-mortar but in looking for these writings like say Ptolemy or anybody like that when I went back and tried to look at their original writings No matter what, I would always find the date that they wrote it to be the date that we've applied to it And I kept saying well when did he say he wrote it? When did Josephus are these people when do they say they wrote These books because it'll just say 70 AD but it's like well We applied that date

1:09:00 to that time way after the fact. So what did they say? And you can't find that information because it's all been rewritten as of 1600. Fomenko claims that the oldest book we can reliably count on is 1100 And when people hear that, they lose their mind because they say there's books that are way older but there really isn't. You just have to look into it and see what you're talking about is if something is copied of a copy of a copy that says that it was originally written in 250 BC It doesn't mean that was written in 250 BC Then people need to question how we date books because books are not datable by conventional carbon dating Basically, we date books by writing style and writing utensil

1:09:43 So you could take a piece of papyrus and grind it up in the dirt, and if you knew the writing utensil that they used in 250 BC And you knew the writing style that you could write something stuck it in a jar Bury it. If it was found 50 years from now They would date that to 250 BC Then that's basically the best that we can get as far as dating books and things like that so once I saw that Then you just look at our history and then it makes sense with the printing press coming out in 1600s. And like I was talking about earlier, they must have known at that time that whatever people first read these people are now going to learn how to read they're gonna learn how to write Whatever we tell them is the truth They're gonna just accept

1:10:24 And when you look at the date of zero, I mean that's one of the biggest things to me. And I always had a question about that growing up but just kind of let it go But really when you think about it picture a period of time where you just went back in the past and said we're going to call this date zero Yeah and anything before that will be ABC and anything It just would never happen There's just no way, nothing could happen on earth that would make us at this point say we're gonna go back to this date call it zero and just readjust all the dates of everything that happened after that. Think of what a disaster that would be unless you were constructing a fake history in which case that would be the best thing to do because now you've got your starting point and you write every book based on that new date and that certainly is what seems like happened

1:11:08 Yeah, man. It is so provocative and in regards to the timeline and the model for the earth I also sometimes consider how ancient megalithic sites in their astrological alignments fit into this puzzle But I've heard you say that You think a lot of these sites are more recent inventions that Stonehenge And perhaps the Great Pyramids are only 100 or so years old and then backdated? Yeah, as far as the pyramids I wouldn't say so much a hundred years but i would say that even if they found them they would have you know dressed them up or done something to him it's just like with Stonehenge. A lot of people say oh well this is ancient it's 5 000 years old but they don't realize we can't date rocks

1:11:49 You have to date some sort of item around there So they might in some ashes and date that and say okay Well, this thing was killed at this date. So these rocks must have been here at that time again It's not an accurate dating method But they also just had so many things wrong with their narrative I've heard that they say that the continents drift foot per year or something like that. That's the continental drift and you know if that were true then Stonehenge has moved 5,000 feet which is a mile so how would it be lined up astronomically if its moved a mile right? So there's a lot of... Go ahead. Oh just I agree oh yeah there's just a lot of things wrong with their idea and you know I'm somebody who believes that the North Star has been the North Star

1:12:31 And yes, there's stories of Thuban used to be our North Star and that it moves. And they base that on these pyramids and they say the pyramid is pointed in a direction that Thuban would have been in whatever it is 3500 years ago But when I went looking into it, I said I wanted to find the angle that these so-called tunnels were at and i'm talking about the Great Pyramid the Cheops. And when I looked and found the angle of these tunnels or these shafts as they call them well They were exactly and I don't remember exactly number one say 31 point something degrees and So I went and looked at you know where they're located and of course They're located at exactly 31 degrees which means that these shafts are pointed exactly at Polaris today

1:13:12 So again, you can either believe that we just happen to live in a time where it's pointed at our North Star today and that they were built at a period of time when it was pointed at the North Star Thuban. And that in between those two times for 3500 years or 4000 years It was pointed at no star as those stars moved into place Or you can believe that it was built Pointed at the North Star of Polaris. And so, you know to me It's just I have to look at things and weigh out what makes more sense There's pictures showing these pyramids and sphinx and things like that being repaired That's what they say They are being repaired but I don't have a doubt that they could have been built definitely sooner and when you really go back and look things like I Don't think as far as I know does the Bible ever mention the pyramids? I'll think

1:14:00 Don't think so and that's the book it depends on when you want to place the date on that, you know for me I don't date it very old but I do think it's one of the older texts that we do have and So, you know where are the pyramids in that? And then when you go back people will say well people wrote books about it or they drew about it But again follow that line of inquiry and You'll get to the same thing things that were printed after the fact that were copies of copies of copies And you know, you've got people who argue with me about the North Star and say but there's these cave paintings. These cave paintings show that the Thuban was the North Star and again we can't date cave paintings

1:14:37 It's very easy to lie about something like that. It is very easy for somebody go into a cave, paint Thuban as the North Star and then find it a few days later and everyone believe that its actually a cave painting So I'm definitely someone who believes in the new chronology not so much exactly as Fomenko has laid out but he definitely gives us better starting point and I just like to follow people's line of thinking and evidence. And it doesn't seem to me like Fomenko has got this agenda-driven narrative that he is telling, it seems like he is trying to actually come up with the true history of the earth. To me that makes more sense than when I look at the

1:15:15 ideas that are passed through school books that seem to be agenda-driven. Well, I'm with you like the way everything's supposed to be moving in the galaxy and solar system with tectonic plates with continental drift and these alignments at the dates they're supposed to be built it does not match up so one of these components has to be wrong and i think its a provocative idea that of fabricating megalithic structures but To play devil's advocate, dozens and dozens of pyramids and similar stone sites have been found around the world. And it's usually the authorities suppressing these discoveries and blocking excavations which to me suggests that they want to hide how far back humanity really goes and how advanced we actually might've been in previous ages but it really is hard to say. It is hard to say but that's a great point and I've never really done a video and said

1:16:10 the pyramids are only 200 years old. Because I do think, like you said we're lied to we know that and so anybody who is doing the kind of work that i'm doing or you're doing or conspiracy researchers are doing are really fighting an uphill battle basically You're having to come up with ideas and kind of see what fits the evidence And so yes The pyramids could be something that was recent but also like you said they could have been something that was found that was very old, that would make sense to me that it was pointed at Polaris if I think the Polaris has always been there. And so i'm not somebody who can say whether or not the pyramids are ancient. I do think that there's tons of evidence that humanity has been here much longer than we think and maybe goes through cycles and you know...I don't think this particular cycle, if you want to call it that is very long in fact I wouldn't be surprised with a date of zero

1:17:05 was kind of the start of this particular epoch if you will and there is evidence of past civilizations and Maybe what they're doing Is kind of always the same thing which is lying to the people that come about trying to tell him one story and that's the one thing i'm not fear but the one thing i feel what i'm doing. Is it my just giving these guys the answer to their problem basically by pointing out things don't work in your story if they were ever take our humans again for whatever reason then we can come back and there story be even better that's the one thing that makes me think about what i'm doing because it seems like,

1:17:44 Sometimes that's the goal. They're building underground tunnels and building underground shelters and seed vaults as if they're expecting some event. Right, yeah like they just bring in a new shipment of cattle to the slaughterhouse and they refine their manipulation every time I mean it's a dark idea about complete and total control and domination but A possibility you gotta consider. you looked at it and just said let's pretend that they could or a vast majority of those and then you bring out the Bible again, And there's no dates in it. So you could lie to those people mm-hmm, and there would be some people that would still

1:18:39 For instance, let's just play and pretend world that something happens to everyone on the United States or even it's you know It's widespread destruction over say half the so-called globe And so all these people then remember stories of people who lived in America and oh what a great Place it was. And it kind of reminds you of the things about Atlantis where there is stories being told about About this place in the past and where it was and what kind of things took place there But it seems like that memory kind of gets lost And I could picture that to wear within a generation or two The idea of what America was or who once lived there? What technology they once had could be erased from people's minds simply by word-of-mouth, and you know if there was some sort of destruction and our

1:19:26 Say our infrastructure went down or the internet went down pretty quickly you'd be able to have people who would only talk about America as a memory, distant past. And so yeah that's probably the one thing that I still question is what is their end goal here because I think some things that we pointed out with NASA are clearly seen for anybody who's doing the research and once they start looking into these pictures of the Earth, pictures of these other planets. The idea of space travel, the idea even in ISS orbiting Earth that these pictures are not real and they keep putting them out there and it makes me think that could possibly have some sort endgame where they don't care because they know what is coming otherwise seems to be like they're not doing the kind of work that looks like their trying to protect a lie

1:20:10 Amen, man. I'm definitely with you that there are huge inconsistencies that can't be denied and i do really enjoy your videos and before we get out of here remind the people where they can actually find those videos and continue the journey if they want to go deeper Sure! And I totally appreciate you having me on like I said been a fan of the show for a long time so I appreciate that and yeah there's jaronism.com and it's J-E-R-A-N I-S-M. And then, I've got the YouTube channel, Jeronism which is youtube.com slash jeronism and I also do a show live on Sundays on a channel called GlobeBusters you can search for that it's got like the Ghostbusters kind of logo but with a globe instead and I also do a radio show from 6 p.m to 9 p.m Pacific on Monday nights on Truth Frequency Radio and you can find that at TFRLive.com

1:20:59 Right on man. Well, whatever people think about the flat earth model You're definitely a great guest and good speaker to talk about it with and thanks again The rabbit hole goes deep take care of yourself out there man Appreciate it you got it peace There we go guys Jaron Campanella of jarenism I hope even non flat-earth listeners were able to enjoy that and get something out of it or find some common ground with Jaron or understand where he's coming from at least I know some people will wonder why i would do another flat earth episode and the fact is that the higher side chats is a show about the full range of alternative perspectives and we've had an increasing number of guests go flat. Sophia small storm santos bonacci marty leads matt landman mark devlin,

1:21:49 This is really no small number, and it's a very weird place for me to be because Flat Earth wasn't a thing five years ago. So I was pretty much willing to go to every edge—no pun intended—but no rabbit hole was too deep and now the envelope has been pushed out even further! But like i said in the intro, I'd rather talk with someone that I feel might go a little too far rather than someone who doesn't go far enough because we could talk about pretty much any other conspiratorial subject and be in rough alignment But it's a strange place for me as the host of a conspiracy show to be more in defense of the mainstream perspective, but I hope that for the most part you trust that as curator and sort-of conspiratorial talent scout if you will. I'm going get people on here who I think are going enjoy regardless

1:22:38 To me, a lot of this is just kind of a thought exercise about the scope of possible lies. I get the idea that there are so many lies out there we gotta just trust our senses but... There's a lotta data to suggest that our brains filter out more than they let in! It's how we make sense of the world But we only see a sliver of the light spectrum. We clearly know there are frequencies other animals can hear that we can't, so we have limited senses. My eyes have played tricks on me more than a couple times! They aren't much more reliable than the brainwashing school system anyway... Still one one hand you can go watch a video like Eric Dubé's 200 Proofs The Earth Is Not A Spinning Ball which y'know two hundred? There should be at least a couple dozen you find interesting right?!

1:23:23 And on the other hand, I think the Flat Earth movement has had a rather suspicious rise. From nobody talking about it for decades to a time where we don't get through a month of shows without somebody bringing it up usually not me but that's not the point The point is how we have this Eric Dubé guy in Thailand who makes a bunch of YouTube videos Not to say that disparagingly That's just a technical description of what he has predominantly done And he's been convincing enough that many, many people have taken everything they've ever heard from anyone and weighted against the obviously convincing arguments in a series of videos and said I'm going to go with the videos. As a phenomenon that's just kind of fascinating to me

1:24:12 I do like Jaron a lot, and he makes a great point when he says the paradigm is what it is. And any perspective that was meant to deceive would have to be built around that so that observationally it made sense. That's kind of what I was saying about how if the goal here is to convince the population of a snow globe environment that there is no creator of said snow globe You'd have to construct a paradigm so epic, so all-encompassing as to explain reality itself emerging without that creator which can only be done if you added space and then said the system we see is just one of many. So the Vatican came up with The Big Bang! I see where flat earth folks are coming from with some of that but then people smarter than me will say you can prove the Earth is round with rock and piece of string

1:25:00 But I think it's a fun conversation to have. Like i said, A lot of listeners have wanted me to return to it Also, a lot have wanted me not too but I hope that one episode every once in awhile isn't gonna kill ya We're here to challenge everything we've been told right? So, I don't know. But people do get really emotional over this topic it is strange and the next episode is actually with a researcher who thinks he's discovered some hidden and fundamental qualities to the universe but also thinks that the configuration of space in the planets is largely in line with conventional ideas And just to appoint of course or you wouldn't even be on THC but my point as we always jump around maybe its this maybe it's that

1:25:43 I can do a cryptid episode where people say, well i don't know if i believe in that stuff but that was definitely interesting. But flat earth episode responses are way more aggressive by the way i do have a cryptid episode planned but we booked it for after the eclipse just in case there's any heightened activity but apparently there's been a record number of flying humanoid sightings in the Chicago area and we're going to talk about it But if you like me as a host and the Hireside Chats overall, and you find that the THC way is something that you value support it by signing up for thehiresideschatsplus.com for five bucks a month And then you can hear the second hour of each episode Each interview That is reserved for those who are kind enough to do so today's full show was actually more like two-and-a-half hours but that said

1:26:36 It's always better to get the full interview. Today is no different." And of course I had a thousand questions for Jaron, and in the second hour what we focused on mainly was the moon's oddities and its place in the flat earth model, meteors asteroids and impacts using true believers as disinformation and their usefulness What are the stars in the Flat Earth Model? Can we use them to prove one over the other. Also, one of my favorite areas is ISS as evidence that something is fishy and there's definitely fakery going on at NASA And then a fun little section about Donald Marshall cloning and Jaron's actual contact with rapper B.O.B I think it is great that he has talked to B.o.B personally about the flat earth, and i'm glad i could ask him about it And get his thoughts on cloning of all things

1:27:28 All around good stuff. Check out his channel, Jarenism and see what you think! I'm sure any Hireside fan would find a few things they'd like and i'll see you soon with another show. I've done my part your move Earthshape charlatans paradigm pushers and capstone con artists of the construct... You're sucking Lucid dreams are so vivid, cause you go to bed at seven And your brain comes alive because you hate your nine-to-five You wake up with a dread and make sure your cats are fed Did your brain talk to a ghost who moved your coffee and toast As you listen to the higher side chats

1:28:09 You get to your desk and your boss says it's a mess And you soul slowly goes to a place where nothing grows When you think he's not around, you insert a SETI sound The OM says turn it down and you say its just the higher side chats Oh do you think you'd be invited To Bohemia Grove? To a Bilderberg club Do you think you'd be invited by a Rothschild to a party on a submarine. Diving down, to the center of the earth through the Marianas Trench your teeth begin to clench from the sulphur-y stench The mask you're given doesn't fit cause you're not one of them

1:29:05 Starting today, you'll make plans to get away There's no one to hold you down And the what-ifs start to drown Then you wake To the glare Of a cofluorescent stare and The light winks at you Cause it's life is almost through But it's holding on to quit time just like You It's time for the High Side Chats .